NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Myles Garrett Landing Spots, NFL Awards & All-Pro Picks with Jourdan Rodrigue

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

On this episode of NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal, the Athletic's Jourdan Rodrigue joins for instant reaction to Cleveland Browns defensive end Myles Garrett requesting a trade from the franchise. Later, both Gregg and Jourdan list off their personal All-Pro 1st and 2nd teams, before sharing their major award picks for NFL Honors.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we cannot believe the season is over one week from right now. I'm Greg Rosenthal in my garage talking to my friend Jordan Roderig of the athletic and setting up what is going to be an awesome week. We are not heading down to New Orleans, Jordan, until Tuesday. So we'll have some fun today. We got some news. We got some all pros to talk about

and we'll have fun tonight as well. Yes. We're not heading down to New Orleans yet because we have a very good cause to champion tonight. You, me, a couple of big time guests on the live taping of the Mina Kimes. And to be clear, other people are the big time guests.

It's you, me, and then the big time guests on the Mina Kimes show featuring Lenny at the Belasco, which I still cannot freaking believe that we're getting to be. on that stage and Kobe Turner is going to take the stage at the Belasco all four wildfire relief efforts 100% of the funds raised tonight this is much will be Monday night in Los Angeles we'll go to fire relief efforts and Omaha Productions is matching all of it too which is really rock star yeah there's also a Kobe Turner jersey which the NFL has chipped in which is is a game

worn jersey from the playoff appearance so yeah if you're hearing this on Monday it is not too late to to head downtown little foggy here in los angeles on monday stay warm come with us have fun it'll be outstanding and uh this show is going to be fun too we're going to talk about all the coordinator hires but we're going to do do it quickly jordan because the two of us like to honk so i'm putting a clock on that and then we're going to go back and we're going to make our all pro teams because i want a document at the beginning of the year we set up our ideal roster and i want a document that shows us who the best players of 2025 are. Why are you laughing?

It was like such a stressful show in the best way because we were like, this is the platonically ideal roster. And then each of us like forgot a player or then like counted wrong. And then we did great. We did fine. Everything's good. That document exists in the ether now. Yes. No, I have it. I have it. This will be a little more straight and arrow.

Our All-Pro team, the official NFL Daily All-Pro team, and our award winners. NFL honors is coming up Thursday night. So we talk about it all season long. I did want to close that circle, too, and give you our award winners. And we're going to have to come to an agreement, which I really like. But we have to start the show talking about Miles Garrett. Monday morning, Miles Garrett sees Luca Donchich traded to the Lakers. The next day, it's Deer and Fox is going with Wemby in San Antonio.

And I'm thinking, man, this NBA trade deadline is going to dominate the whole lead up to the Super Bowl. And Miles Garrett, he's got our back. He releases a statement through Ian Rappaport. That's at least where I saw it first on Monday morning that he wants to be traded from the Cleveland Browns saying that his goal in his career was not to go from Cleveland to Canton. it is to win championships along the way. And he wants to do that somewhere other than the Browns. A lot of directions we can go here, Jordan. But do you think it's realistic that it actually happens for some context?

The Brown's GM, Andrew Barry, said just last week, maybe he sensed this was coming, that we do not plan to trade Miles Garrett. We do not want to trade Miles Garrett and that he could have a contract. coming up in his future. Miles Garrett apparently does not want that contract, at least not right now. Yeah, to peel back the curtain a little bit too, something like this does come up to a general manager

when local reporters, people on the beat, the beat reporters there in Cleveland catch a whiff of some unsettling situation and then take the opportunity. The first time they'll really get an availability with the GM all off season is at the Senior Bowl. And this is where this conversation took place where he was asked, including by,

my colleague, Zach Jackson, about whether or not they would ever consider trading Miles Garrett. And even if there were two first round picks on the table and Andrew Barry said, no, we're not doing it. Wow, I didn't know that, that they even gave him the two first. Yeah. And that was Zach, my colleague at the athletic. And so it was, that's the context of why that bubbled up. And so now as a response or a reaction, Miles Garrett and his camp clearly have had this planned or in the works. And then I think release a very nice statement about what this means and what this really is for him and requesting a trade and alerting the team.

Now, it could get not nice in a hurry, Greg. And that's where I think you have to be really careful if you're the Browns because if you're a star player and one of the faces of the NFL and one of the best players, past rushers we've ever seen, is going to get contentious in this or going to be like stay in this path and be adamant about this. Like if it's not just a, I need you to change these things or else I'm going, sort of a veiled threat. If it's a real legitimate thing, then this could get messy in a hurry and the next few weeks are going to be absolutely nuts. Well, him releasing the statement that clearly, I think puts it past that point where it's messy. He's putting it out this week because he knows this is the time of year big trades could potentially happen is really leading into the free agency period. and we've seen quarterbacks get traded during this week or agreed to trades during this week. Yes, Stafford, Cousins.

And so Garrett's that level of player. And the trade is big enough that it could take a month to get going. And it will be a talking point unless something changes until free agency starts. Now, I think it could be very difficult for the Browns to do it because it does not help them financially. If they traded him, they would actually take a cap. hit this year in addition to the dead money to trade him away. And yeah, you're you're taking that short-term pain now, but it's getting rid of a player you're not planning to get rid of because they just renegotiated his contract in part because of the Deshaun Watson mess right

before the 2023 season. So it'd be painful to let him go. If they traded him after June 1st, they would actually get a little bit of cap relief, like $5 million in cap relief, and they could spread the hits out, but again, you wouldn't have Miles Garrett and that timeline probably doesn't work for the other teams out there. They're one of the teams that does not have any cap room. Now, you can always make room and the Watson contract has some insurance loopholes that I do not want to even get into and there's other contracts. They're going to be able to move their contracts around, but they are not a team that has a ton of space to suddenly get worse. And I don't know if they're really having an appetite to get worse. So their solution might be to just offer

Miles Garrett a ton of money, even more money, make them the highest paid defensive player in the league again. That's to me, question number one, because I have to imagine they'll do that because I don't think they will want to trade him. Maybe you disagree because there is an argument, Jordan, that actually this is the perfect time to trade him. He's been there seven years. not like they haven't gotten amazing value at him. He is still playing as a defensive player of the year level. I think he might win the award this week. If he doesn't, he's one of the finalists.

He'll be in the top couple. But he is about to turn 30 next year. And his value is so high right now that what could you get for him? Could you get a first plus? Could you get two firsts for him? If you're a Brown's team that's probably not contending this year, you have to at least think about it because are you going to be good by the time Miles Garrett, you know, starts aging. Are you going to be good in the meantime? Probably not.

So if you're getting possibly two firsts for Miles Garrett, maybe you do think about it. Where would you like to see him possibly go or do you have any ones you just want to throw out there? Well, I wanted to get further back in your sentence there and address another point that you made where it, to me, it is organizational malpractice. the way that they've had this guy on their roster and have not maximized the roster and, in fact, done quite the opposite, this one move of going out and acquiring Deshaun Watson and using the picks that they did only for him to just be a bad football player. And that's not even touching the entire rest of the mess surrounding Deshaun Watson, but just

to be a bad football player and to crater the potential of that roster and to create the potential of a player of that caliber where you're supposed to be the franchise face and instead the only conversation around your team as a brand is this mess that they've made. So I think this is multi-layer if I'm Miles Garrett. It's like you're supposed to be the cornerstone and the face of this organization. And instead, everything else around this team has only been a plummeting your potential and be plummeting you as a brand because that's all anyone wants to talk about and i'm not saying that's the most important thing but it's like you want to go somewhere where you are going to be a valued in the sense that a team is going to win with you and around you and also

you know you got you want to go win a super bowl and he said that as plainly as he possibly could in his statement and i don't see any aspect of this brown's roster with the mess that they've created over the next couple of years that is capable or even possible of contending for a deep postseason run, let alone the Super Bowl. And so I think when you're looking at a couple of teams that might have interest and might do whatever it takes, because this is going to be a whatever it takes trade. Like if he's available, if they're actually answering your phone call, because they've been adamant that they won't.

If they're actually answering your phone call, you do whatever you can. And you shake out every mattress, you shake out, you shake out every mattress you have. You look under the cushions of every sofa in the building. And you shake down whatever you can to get this guy in your building. And so I think it's a, it's a Buffalo Bills question, honestly. I think that, you know what? I'm not going to rule out. I think it could be a Kansas City Chiefs question.

I know. I know. But it's two teams without a ton of cap room. The bills actually are $13 million over the cap as we speak. Now, they are, of course, like every team, you've got to be able to move things around. You can always move things around. They're going to restructure Josh Allen.

There's other people that they can cut. But there are other teams that can do it more easily than the bills for sure. Yeah, the San Francisco 49ers, I see as a team. And by the way, I want to point out, I mentioned this to you and Mina the other day is I don't think the Raiders think that they're going to take like seven years to build up this roster. I think they're going to, with Pete Carroll on the three-year deal, I think they're going to make some moves this off season.

And so I think that that, should be on the table. Detroit should be on the table for a possible Miles Garrett trait. Really, it's easier to ask, like, who would never do it. Right. That's true. Yeah. Because it's Miles Freaking Garrett. What are you doing, Cleveland? God. Well, they're probably not doing anything or they're not trying to do anything. But I tried to think of historical precedence for these types of moves just to think about the- You mean the NBA one that happened three days ago? No. I mean, And that one, that is next level. That was wild.

That, that, there is no precedent for that in the NFL. Let's be real. Yeah. The closest I could come up with was if you sort of combined the two Kaleel Mac trades and made it in between. Because the first Kaleel Mac trade, he's not as, he wasn't as good a player as Garrett, but after four years, the way people thought about him, he wasn't on a totally different planet.

And that was, that was a crazy deal. two firsts, a ton of seconds, more than that. If that was after four years in the league, 25-year-old, that's a little different. And then the next Caleo-Mack trade is actually closer to where Garrett is, but at that point, Mac was not nearly the same player. That was after eight years in the league, and there was much less return.

Richard Seymour got traded around the same age after eight years in the league, future Hall of Famer, but had even maybe just started his downturn, which Garrett hasn't. They got a top 15 pick for Richard Seymour. John Abraham was a trade where they got a first four. Jared Allen, people forget, that was a blockbuster trade from the Chiefs to the Vikings, where they got a first, a couple of thirds.

And again, they were a little younger. I think the fact that Garrett is better than all these players maybe makes up for the fact that he's a little older than most of them. And if Richard Seymour at around the same age is getting a first round pick, I know this is 20 years ago that the league has changed, but you just said it. It's Miles Freaking Garrett and Mike Tannenbaum, who was running a team and was just helping a team hire a coach.

He was on get-up this year saying at the trade deadline, he would give up like three first, three seconds, literally everything if he was the Lions to do it. And I don't think it's going to cost that, but I think a couple teams could be willing to. Some came to mind. The Raiders I agree with. They have 90 million in cap space and the Patriots have 130.

And Mike Vrable was in Cleveland's building last year. But if he wants to win a championship, how does that make any sense if you're Miles Gary? It doesn't to me. So I thought commanders are up there with an insane amount of cap space. The lions have a ton of cap space and they've shown that they'll be aggressive. This doesn't feel like a Packers move, but they have plenty of space. The chargers, I think, are going to be very much in go now mode. And they have a boatload of cap space.

And I don't know if Kaleo Mac or Joey Boas is on that team, yeah, next year. So that's a possibility. The bills come to mind. they made that move for von miller didn't really work out they would be a little tougher financially to make it all work because i think if you're trading for them you're probably you're giving him a new contract too so you're right though that there's almost more teams because when you look at the cap space as it's one of my favorite things i just repeat every there's there's way too much cap space out there i mean there's like 15 teams with more than 40 million dollars in cap space

there's like there's seven or eight teams with over 60 like what what are you going to do with all that cap space there's not enough good players out there you don't have enough good players on your team so someone should back up the brink track make andrew barry say no and a little known fact very little known fact about the way that the spending uh stipulations work in the NFL every three years you have to hit a minimum spending threshold so yes to your point Greg every team that has money go get him get him out of there we want good things for miles Garrett we may never see another player like him and he's just excellent. He is joy. Go bring him job. That's why I like the commanders because I'm like, I was thinking about this obviously just from, you know, what would make me

really happy to see Miles Garrett and Dan Quinn and Jada Daniels and how much fun they would all have, see Miles Garrett in front of my player, Frankie Louvo, just wrecking stuff with Jeremy Chin behind him. I mean, my God, that would be impeccable. Impeckable vibes all around. They have $78 million in cap space. They have Jaden Daniels, their quarterback. on the books for cheap for the next few years. Them, the Chargers, and the Lions felt the most realistic of teams that would actually do it and have the space and make sense. The 49ers would be in that mix as well for me, but I really don't think the Browns are

going to want to. If nothing else, all they've had over the last 20 years other than that one playoff win, which was with Kevin Stefansky, you know, is Joe Thomas and Miles Garrett. And Miles Garrett doesn't want to be the next Joe Thomas. But I think the Browns are like, we have an all-time great. Our fans are going to desert us. They're going to start bringing coffins to the arena like Mavericks fans were doing after the Luca trade.

Last question, Greg. Yes. So the Browns do not, I myself said the Breggs. The Browns do not want to do this. They've made that clear. Obviously, that will only up the asking price. If you're the Browns and someone puts a quarterback on the table, a starting caliber quality quarterback on the table do you make the move oh just thinking out loud

i think about it because because garrett wants out and because of what i said about the perfect time of it all his hit the combination of his he will get worse at some point and he has to be at the tail end of his prime he hasn't shown anything but if you could get a quarterback plus That's the reason why Miles Garrett wants to leave. Now, he might be like, you haven't had a quarterback this whole time. Now, who would that be? You know, Matthew Stafford obviously comes to mind. Like a Sam Darnold plus a first round pick.

You know, it starts getting interesting. I think if you're the Browns, yes, if you can, and you're not in love with Chodor Sanders or Cam Ward especially, that you could plug a couple holes, not give up, you know, you'd have your number two overall pick and maybe get better fast. I like where you're going. That's pretty good. All right, let's talk, let's talk about the coaches.

Coordinator hires are the new coaching hires now that, you know, we're still waiting for the Saints to actually have it. We're time, right on this. A lot of interesting. We're putting the clock on. Chris is behind the wall here. Thanks, Chris. He's putting a silent clock on us. I'm limiting this to 10 minutes.

And it could be less. If we can go less, that's great. We can get to the all pros even sooner. But 10 minutes max, we'll get a warning and a little ticking time bomb at, one minute. So let's start with the Raiders. Start the clock. Chip Kelly is the Raiders offensive coordinator. How cool is this? Talk about making more fun for fans. This is cool. It's Chip Kelly and Pete Carroll, guys. It just doesn't get any just like, wait, what mad lives than that? I love it. I think that's going to be fun. Obviously, they need so many things. They need a quarterback. They need a second

pass catcher outside of Brock Bowers. They need to revamp this historically bad run game. All these things that Chip Kelly has this really tall task ahead of him now. But man, just on paper alone. I just like the look of that. They're a little like the Giants to me where I don't think they're as quite as far away on offense as people think. I don't think their offensive line is that bad. They do have Jacoby Myers and Michael Meyer who are great role players. You just need, you're right, another receiver in that. Because you have Brock Bowers. You make him the thing that everything goes through. I could totally see Chip Kelly doing that, making him sort of the Joker player on offense that everything the entire offense goes through, 100% would be a Chip Kelly move.

And he's an offensive coordinator instead of him as a head coach. He's been out of the league. It just shows how coaching, like, he comes so quickly. Like, you know, any NFL team could have hired Chip Kelly probably out of UCLA if they really want to do for a while. And he has a hot year with Ohio State. And even Ohio State had some ups and downs. But I love it from Carol's perspective, didn't go with Daryl Bevel, didn't go with his old guys. I like a lot of the moves they've made. They kept Patrick Graham. We hadn't talked about that. They kept their special teams coordinator. So he's picking and choosing who makes sense, but he's also willing to take a chance. The reporting from your friend to Sean Reed, who hopefully will see tonight down at the show,

is that John Spitech, the, you know, the GM is helping them along the way with these coaching hires. And the thing that really struck me before we move on from this, they're paying chip Kelly six million dollars he is making more money than some head coaches in the league while jerry jones doesn't want to pay one single year of a coach like out of his contract mark davis is paying for like four different staffs he's probably still paying josh mcdaniels like patrick graham's still there probably on his josh mcdaniels contract shout out to patrick graham he's that good that he survived all these firings but they're paying six million dollars to chip kelly i thought that was if you're a raiders fan of

I think you'd love to hear that. You'll have to see it. You're like, move on or else we're never going to have time. Let's go to the Jets. Tanner Engstrom. Better known as... What is it, Greg?

Say it. Say the last name. Tanner Engstrand. Tanner Engstrand. Got to get used to that. He had a real tough time. Listeners, he had a real tough time with this in the Google document. I was going to bring that up on my email, which I was dedicated.

I was watching my son at his sporting event on Sunday. I'm outside. you know, sending show notes. I spelled it Ogstrand. Augstrand. I didn't know this guy. Who knows this guy? He's like 28 years old,

but they hired him and Scott Turner as a passing game coordinator, too. I kind of like that combination. And they kept their wide receivers coach, Sean Jefferson, who's one of the best in the business. I like that Tanner Engstrom, Engstrand, was with the lion since 2020. So he was there alongside Ben Johnson and spent a lot of time with Ben Johnson as his assistant when Ben Johnson was coaching tight ends and then moving up into O.C. And then Ben Johnson promoted Tanner into a more prominent role as well as coaching tight ends in Detroit.

So he understands, like, how to run pieces of this offense. He understands what it takes, what it looks like to be a really, really good offensive coordinator. And I like Scott Turner. I think everywhere Scott Turner has been where he hasn't been scapegoated, he's been a really solid mind and a really solid presence to have in the room. I've known Scott Turner for a long time, and I just think he's a good fit over there. I think it's good vibes over there right now. Yeah, really interesting that Dan Campbell didn't choose to go with him in Engstrand, and I think that was the expectation locally, and he did promote from within it on defense,

but on offense they went with John Morton. They also hired David Shaw, the former Stanford coach, which is interesting. But Engstron is the eighth Lions assisting coach to leave. One of them was asked not to come back. So that's really seven that were hired by other places. That's a lot. That is, that's a lot to deal with. And Dan Campbell will really be tested.

And I do think when you think about what works in a lion's type of offense or even Scott Turner, I mean, Aaron Rogers is just for the football is probably better than they can do elsewhere. elsewhere like just in terms of who can play football the best for them in 2025 he's probably better now the contract and the person make it less palatable to bring him back but i think this move like i could see him in that offense let's go to the cowboys they hired clayton adams we had mentioned this was a possibility he's the he was the offensive line coach for the cardinals known for his running game chops shoddy kind of putting together a fun little staff there in dallas yeah i like the Cowboys right now in terms of what they look like on paper with that coaching staff.

This tells me that they want to run the ball and they want to do it in a variety of ways. Now, the Cowboys have physically stated this in years past and then the moves they've made have been really questionable and told us, no, they actually don't want to run the ball and don't care about having a fully developed and asserting and attacking run game. But hiring Clayton Adams actually does tell me, okay, we noticed our we've Recognized our flaws in this phase a little bit. We're a little bit light in the pants here. So now we need to go and drew petting this thing up a little bit.

I think that this is a good hire. I'm excited to see how it manifests on the field. Yeah, and hiring Brian Schottenheimer tells you that too, that I'm sure he was stressing the run game. And you can connect the dots with reports that come out. The report was that Kellyn Moore was looking at Clayton Adams. They both went to Boise State for what it's worth as his offensive coordinator. And then like an hour later, it's like, oh, the Cowboys probably raised their offer to Clayton Adams and close the deal.

The Bucks are hiring Josh Grizzard, a man who I wasn't familiar with, but was with Mike McDaniel in Miami and then was with the Bucks on their staff last year and was their third down play caller. And you know who led the NFL in third down efficiency last year? Chris Godwin. I mean, yeah, but they got it done without Chris Godwin. And so I like that. They interviewed a lot of interesting names, I thought, but then they hired the guy from within. So some continuity there for Baker.

Yeah, that's exactly what I wrote in my note. System continuity. They're going to have to take this into a 2.0 version of what they ran last year because everything they did was on tape. So this is going to be interesting. I am excited because of his experience with Mike McDaniel. I am interested to see how 49ers up this kind of goes now that Liam Cohen, who had some of the Rams influences is out of the building.

That's a great point. And I like that Baker finally having a little continuity here. The players all seemed like they were fans of Gris. He was a young guy. Kind of looks like a McDaniel type. Did you hear that at the Senior Bowl, or no, at the Pro Bowl, Baker told reporters that, and I think he was joking, but it's Baker. So he's a lot of dip on his chip that he left Liam Cohen on red at first when he was telling

him about potentially taking this job spicy baker is the best baker yeah um there's been some reporting the saints have told other coaching candidates in the in in their coaching search which would probably be anthony weaver that they are trying to move forward essentially with kellen more they're going to wait to talk to him to after this the super bowl the interesting thing here is our friends at the saints block party podcast said on their show that kellen more told the saints he only wants the job if they don't keep their car they've nailed their sources and their stories over the year yeah that is that is spicy i love that they're they're plugged in i listened to your show from the senior bowl that when they were patched in from the senior bowl this morning actually i thought

they did a great job and i learned i don't watch a single prospect other than with a bowl of chips on a saturday if i'm ever at home instead of traveling through the college football season so i felt like they they got me ready to hit draft season and running some good intel there But yeah, they've, they've been on it. Like, they had the Ben Johnson reporting that nobody else had to. They clearly, I don't know who inside the building. Who's your source? No, I'm just kidding.

They got someone. But that's really interesting because then Derek Harrell will become available. He's not going to be the guy that you want as your quarterback, but he probably will be starting other. Oh, we got the clock on. We have less than a minute. Last one, Jaguar is higher. Anthony Campanile.

Do you have any thoughts on him? The Packers linebackers coach, kind of an up-and-coming guy. He was on hard knocks at some point, too, wasn't he? If maybe I'm mistaking different people. But, okay, so one thing about the Jags that is maybe a little bit more interesting than this, is that they're going to start honing in on their general manager candidates this week. So expect to see a few names start getting floated around as that part of the football building gets built out. It's going to be interesting.

Everybody will report to Shad Khan according to what's coming out of that building right now. He had a fiery speech in the dolphins, hard knocks. Good call. People love them. We did it in under a minute. I'm a little worried. Of course it was you, Greg. Of course it was you.

It was so close. I don't care. It's our show, Jordan. I can say what I want. It is a first time head coach with a first time defensive coordinator, very, very young. And he's going to have a first time OC, and he might have a first time GM. So yeah, that, that happened in Seattle last year. And I think there were maybe some regrets in terms of the coaching stuff that happened in Tennessee, did not go well for them in Tennessee last year.

Part of this is Liam Cohen has been trying to bring in people that he knows, but the bucks keep blocking him. And I think they're fair to be doing that right now. They're trying to keep their own continuity in place over there. They've got to think about themselves. And, you know, and Liam, I think, you know, because he's jumped around so much over the last. several years, it is difficult to assess, okay, what direction are, what direction are, well, you started it, what direction are we going? And then how can we actually form an identity? But then the who of it is, is the big question as well, because there's just a lot of dispersal around the

league of people that he's worked with before. Yeah, that's going to be challenging. One other news item wanted to mention before we go to break, I'd mention the accusations against Justin Tucker on our last show. And I did just want to update that three additional massage therapists are accusing Ravens Kicker, Justin Tucker, of sexually inappropriate behavior. Again, great reporting by the Baltimore banner in terms of just the firsthand accounts and having everything really buttoned up. And I would recommend everyone just read that. Just from my vantage point, what's striking is how the new accusations are so consistent in the stories are all very similar. And with one of the recent accusations, there's some documentation of the therapist no longer wanting to work

with Justin Tucker because of his behavior. So we will have to wait and see how the Ravens and or the league respond on that. Let's take a quick break. We're going to come back and we are going to do our all pro teams. It's never too late. We're taking the playoffs into account. We're going to do some awards right after this. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now I'm Drew Franklin. And this is an ever. Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel?

That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive podcast. partner of the NFL. Visit

Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else.

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back on NFL Daily i'm really excited about this i didn't want to get into the offseason before doing our official NFL daily all pro team we decide on our perfect roster before the season jordan that was 53 men this this is more select and what this is going to be is our all pro team and there's a difference between ours and the one that's already out there we're allowing playoff performances to impact our voting if we want it could it could be a tiebreaker it could be something that that takes someone off a table or puts them over the top we're going to do first and second team we're going to have a document and i plan to do NFL daily for the next 24 years i would say so every year we will have this and my goal is for this to be on the pro football reference page

they'll actually list the NFL daily all pros as a special honor first and second team. Let's start with quarterback. And yes, we're going to do the awards. NFL honors is Thursday night in New Orleans. We're going to do the awards at the end of the show as well. We'll pick, we'll pick our guys. To me, tell me if you disagree, I think it was pretty obvious that the two quarterbacks are still Josh Allen in Lamar Jackson. I don't think there's much case for anyone else to be in there. It's just deciding the order. What is your order? Or do you disagree and have a different quarterback in there. Lamar Jackson is first to me. And so he would be my first team selection. I wanted to at least open the table because I have both of these names down.

Wanted to at least open a brief discussion. Should we at least talk about Joe Burrow for second team? Yes. Because I think this could have this could really go in so many ways, but it's really hard to argue with Joe Burroughs production this season. And really, he would have been all the way down the line in this MVP conversation had he a better team like these other two quarterbacks had. And he would have been all the way down the line in this discussion as well as a three-headed MVP conversation for quarterbacks had he even had they made the playoffs, which we are considering. And so because we're considering the playoffs, I'm not, I have Lamar first and Josh second. But I wanted to at least talk about Joe Burrow and give him his flowers here because if if he would

have if they would have at least snuck into the playoffs this makes this conversation way more interesting and I think reintroduces a third person into it that's fair I should have mentioned that to me he's a really strong third yeah to me he is third and it's not because of the playoffs that's part of it that's more the MVP for me like he he is a lot lower not a lot lower I should say, but he is lower, let's say, in some of the advanced metrics like QBR, it's one, two, three, these three guys and the other two are basically tied. And it's because of all the sacks he took. And I actually think that is a playing style thing. So I actually think between the rushing value, which Alan and Lamar have so much rushing value. It's just outrageous. And the sack avoidance

that especially Alan has, but that even Lamar has compared to Joe Burr. I actually think that and how they played in late and close situations. The other two get a little bit of an edge. That he's still third to me just regular season, but it's really close. He could have maybe won the MVP last year. I actually think he would have. He would have been my pick, I think, for MVP a year ago. He was obviously better to me than Lamar Jackson or Brock Purdy or whoever you would have voted for a year ago, Borough.

But this year, that's how it goes. I guess we'll go Lamar then first team. I wrote Allen down first team, but I kind of wrote it as like, I'm just going to give this one a Jordan because I have other ones I feel strongly about. And it's just a coin. I don't know. I never made up my mind between these two. Don't give me your pity vote.

Yeah, I did. I have my mind made up. And it's not taking anything away from anyone. It's just that that's how I see the body of work that they put together this year. And both are great. And I did think it was important to bring up Borough, though, because I just think we are seeing, especially with these three, and then I put Patrick Mahomes, and then you obviously also, and before people freak out, listen to the second part of my sentence. And I think you have to put Matthew Stafford in this conversation, too, of quarterbacks who do the most at the line of scrimmage.

And Lamar is incredible at this. And it's really cool watching every year more and more and more and more is a sign to him that he handles at the line. And Josh Allen has done more and more and more as time has passed. Joe Burrow has entered the league doing this, but has done more as time has passed. Matthew Stafford's been doing this for 10 years. Patrick Mahomes is elite at it. And I just think that when you talk about quarterbacks who are like orchestrating their entire system at elite levels, these are the quarterbacks that you could say that about. Now the quarterbacks I'd want to build a franchise around are Lamar, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and Jay. and Daniel so I wanted to just throw those guys some flowers yeah that's an interesting category of

like who does the most and I would say it'd be my homes and burrow but Alan is getting there which is crazy and I don't think he gets talked about enough for how much he does now and Lamar absolutely it's been increasing incrementally especially with Todd Monken all right we're going to go Lamar Jackson one Josh Allen two and the playoffs of it all was an interesting thought experiment here because while Josh Allen and his team beat the Ravens and Lamar had an up and down game, the playoffs didn't make any difference for me trying to separate those two because actually I think Josh Allen had maybe his worst two game stretch of the season in the playoffs, his last two games. And it wasn't bad, but it was just kind of not quite integral.

in the in the Ravens win and not great in the AFC championship worse than I thought when I went back to rewatch that so they didn't really separate themselves if anything I think Lamar's average game was probably a little better in the playoffs but not a big deal let's go let's go on we can't spend all day running back it's only two running backs here okay who are your first and second team first team sayquan second team Derek Henry honorable mention Josh Jacobs. Okay. But first team, Saquan Barkley, definitively, not a doubt in my mind. And second team is Derek Henry for me.

Okay. I agree. I checked out the actual voting with this, too. Gibbs was the only other player that got a couple votes and it was barely. I'm glad he got some votes. It was almost literally every single person voted Saquan one,

Henry two. It wasn't even like Henry got a couple. No, it was like, I think it was 48 people voted Henry two and two people voted Gibbs too. And other than that, everyone agreed. And I agree too. In another year, Gibbs or Bajan, I think, could have been first team or second team. This just was a crazy year for running backs. And Jacobs would have gotten some votes as well, including yours. Do you know what? I was talking to, to Sean, we mentioned earlier my colleague at the

athletic. He covers the Raiders. And we were laughing because the Raiders couldn't even win my former running back goes somewhere else and has an amazing season storyline this year like two other teams won it above them so I like four raiders like they can't even win that one like they can't even win the storyline although he looked much better in in the packers uniform I got to give it okay wide receiver it's funny because only two running backs make it and then six receivers make it which is interesting that's how it's set up in terms of the all pro voting three on the first team three on the second. We'll go back and forth in terms of who goes first. So I'll go first with receivers. And my first team was Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson. Those were easy, too, for me.

And I went AJ Brown with my third pick. My second team is Pukunakua, Terry McLaurin, and Amon Ra, St. Brown. I can get into the honorable mentions, but those are my two teams. We have the same exact versus second team. It's good. And I, and I do. want to extrapolate on this a little bit more it's amon rae st brown had over a 70% success rate on targeted plays which is the second best among any receiver this year and the first was chris godwin who got an honorable flowers nod from me because he would have been a first team all pro in my opinion had he had the entirety of the season and then i want to point to Pooka Nakuha and both of those guys, I'm on Ron Pooka Nakua, fit in this category to me of

if you have to have a play, that's who you, that's who makes the play. Like, they're just known. Like, if you have to have a play, they're going to get open or they're going to make an insane catch or they're going to get the ball somehow, whether it's scheme, whether it is the quarterback making a play to the receiver, whether it's the receiver making a play. And those two guys, in my opinion, are right there next to each other in that regard of, like, you this is your go-to if you have to have a play that's not your necessarily like uh you're justin jefferson a team without a you know a justin jefferson or a true x in that way yeah and puka didn't i was surprised i hadn't checked out all the voting but puka didn't come that close

to actually making the second team so i'm a little surprise i give more weight to what did you do when you were out there and on a yards per target run efficiency it was one of the greatest wide receiver seasons of all time. It was actually better than any other receiver this year by a decent amount. And so that's enough for me with the mistime that he gets on the second team. Amon Ra's numbers were ultimately better than A.J. Brown. So were Terry McLaurins. He got 13 touchdowns.

AJ Brown had nine, I believe. They both didn't go over 1100 yards, which isn't crazy. And I know he wasn't as good after the injury. But when he was healthy and it was like the first 13 games of the season or whatever, which is most of the season. I think if you just watch the tape and see what AJ Brown is doing. I just think he's better than Amman Ra and Terry.

And so that was just what I went with. I just think he was just a little bit better. I actually think there was a decent argument that he was the best wide receiver in football. Now the production didn't get there and he fell off, so no way at the end. But that's how good he was. You know, Mike Evans could have been mentioned here.

uh he got a lot of votes actually he got more than than puka um brian thomas wouldn't have been that crazy i have him as an honorable mention i don't think that's crazy at all especially relative to his experience level like it i you know i i don't think that's crazy at all if there was a third team i probably would have gone brian thomas mike evans cd lamb uh let's go to tight end give me your two in order felt like it was a three man race for two spots uh tell me if you disagree Okay, but yes, but I wanted new blood in there. So I put Brock Bowers and Trey McBride, first team and second team. And I did that because I know that, listen, I know that purely from a fantasy football perspective,

people will yell at me and you might yell at me about Trey McBride. I think he's one of the best tight ends in football. And it is like, I don't argue or look at it from that perspective because I actually don't play fantasy football. And I haven't in many, many years. And so I'm looking at it from what these guys are doing right now in the league, from a holistic standpoint, what they mean to their team and what their production and what their like levels of excellence are, especially as they are ascending in some of their peers, in my opinion, are maybe on the back stretch of their career. They're the number three and four in receptions in the NFL this year of all targeted players, and both of them eclipsed 1,100 yards and 10 yards per catch. And we're really the workhorses for their offenses, even when other players like Marvin Harrison, Jr. and the Cardinals was available. We've got our first disagreement because I'm going to, I will stand on the table and pushback.

I need to get Kittle on the team. I agree with everything you're saying. And it really is painful for me to take any one of these three off. I had McBride third. But I'm willing to kick off Bowers if I need to because I had Kittle first. Because everything you just said about McBride. is true about Kittle. They're probably the two best, most complete, tight ends.

I mean, this might have been Kittles' best season, 1,100 yards, eight touchdowns, and he still, I think he changes the math in a way as a receiving threat and blocking threat that no one else other than maybe now McBride can do. So I actually think he, it's hard for me to say George Kittle in one of his peak seasons, like he's a first ballot hall famer to me,

isn't one of the two guys. like ultimately who would I've rather had this season on my team to help me win and the stats still back it up and so I think it's still kiddle over those two guys so I'll let you choose between the other two and if I have to be second I don't know I'll deal with second team but I need kiddle on the team okay well maybe we'll give it to the rookie next year then because yeah that's the thing that's what I said too is the three man race like it was so tight to me but I mean if you go and watch some of the things that Brock Bauer I know you have Greg Like, some of the things that Brock Bowers is able to do as a rookie.

I mean, you know, okay, but 10 years, 10 year. And George Kittle had an amazing season. You cannot argue with that. It's, it's about the every down impact. It's about the blocking, basically, and what their office is because of it. And I think George Kittle would be first in every down impact. If we're really, if that is like specifically the category of it, I think of, of Bride's getting there, though.

They use him in a lot of creative ways. He does stuff. Would you let me agree with you? for no god's sake like just you you this is how i'll get you next time is like i'll just like agree with you and then you'll be like oh no and freak out and then have to like okay so what are we doing here we're killing kiddle mcbride we're going kittle mcbride we're going to bring mcbride first i'll give you that that i'm going to put tray mcbride first all right we're going to go mcbride first a little love for mcbride apologies to bowers

and he man he's not going to get offensive reggae the year either for me um that's tough sorry sorry brock but you'll have future success we got to speed this up a little left tackle i had worse in my lota as my one two so did i okay shout out to dion dockins really nice kind of rebound season uh rshawn slater's good left guard what do you have uh jo toney and quentin nelson oh interesting i had i went landon dickerson and tuny i guess i'm giving a little bump to the playoff of it all, although he got, you know, he got hurt in the conference championship, but I don't know. I'm not going to fight you over Quentin Nelson. He did, I think, I mean, yeah, I think he just, I think he was excellent. I did have first team for Dickerson, so, hmm. Tune is my first team

because he's also playing left tackle at times. I mean, for God's sake. Is he, is he playing it that well? I think it was better in the AFC Jamest. I don't care. He's moving positions. Like, Like, he's able to do it on a championship team in the national football league. Okay. Give him a bone here, Greg. Can I, can you give me Dickerson then? And now I owe you one. Sure.

You do. And I'm saving it because I know which one. Okay. Tunis won Dickerson, two, left guard. Center, we're not offensive line experts. I went, I went Creed Humphrey. I didn't know who to pick because my second center. I went Linderbom. People love them some Zach Frazier, but those are my two.

What did you go? Frank? I know, but when I watch them, I don't know, man. People love him and the on-off splits are great. Like, the PFF numbers are great, but like, I actually thought they had some issues, but I'll give you that. That's fine. Humphrey and Frank Ragnow.

Frank and Creed, I did want to give a really positive shout out, though, and an honorable mention, even though it's not a real thing, but he took on an impossible job that is Cam Juergens. You had to be the next guy after the elite, like, all. star face of the franchise guy, and I think he handled it admirably. All right, give me your right guard and your right tackle. Let's go fast. Okay, I've got Quinn Miners and Sam Cosmy, who I really want to get on here. It was one of the best right guards in the NFL this season.

You have it on yours, too. Greg showing these notes. Greg is like has a printer in his house. I'm looking digitally here. I never, I always do. Greg might be one of the last humans on Earth that has a printer in his house. So that's good, though. Someone has to keep a record of this.

Quinn Miner's and Sam Cosmy. He had one sack all season per next gen. And to be able to do that while also feeling and learning and growing as a blocker for a quarterback who can move and run and can freestyle and create, like that's such a hard thing to do. And I thought he handled it brilliantly. Right tackle, I have Lane Johnson and Punei Sewell. I had him but reversed. I mean, I think Sewell just, we were talking about him as like offensive. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I didn't do it in order. Yeah, I've penned first and Lane second. Miners first, Cosme, second. And with these offensive linemen, I did send some emails, some texts around to see what people thought. And I think we have good picks. All right, let's go to the edge.

We're going to defense. Edge was tough. Why don't you go? I'll go first. I went in the end, my first team, there's two on the first team, two on the second. I wrote down like seven names. But my first team in the end,

I went with Miles Garrett and Trey Hendrickson. And my second team, I went with Micah Parsons. He's kind of like the Puka and A.J. Brown argument for me that on a down-to-down basis when you just watched him, I think he was maybe the best player, like on defense in the NFL this year. So I'm giving him a second team. That's how I tend. I'd rather go with a higher peak and miss some games.

And then I went with Danielle Hunter, but as my second team. But I'm really open to conversation here. What do you got? Yeah, it's interesting. I have Danielle Hunter, Jonathan Grunard, and Micah Parsons, as honorable mentions, and I did not give Michael Parsons a complete grade because, you know, missing some time this season. I have Miles Garrett and Nick Bonito on my first team. Wow.

However, I would agree with you on Miles Garrett and Troy Hendrickson on my first team, and then Nick Bonito and Kyle Van Noy on my second team. Now you're getting too. This is too much. Doing it for the old guys. No, I'm in all seriousness. Benito and Daniel Hunter would make a nice, a nice second team in my opinion. Do I want to be pushy on Parsons? Man, he's so good.

I feel like you always want to be pushy. Isn't, is that not the... I didn't want to, in the QB one, I didn't know. I wrote down three other names. One of them was Benito, so I'll live with that as a second team, although I'm not, I don't love it. He was the seventh name I wrote down. So I'm giving you that. I wrote down Will Anderson as well.

Yeah, he's really good for sure. I, you know, Van Ginkle to me is a second name. a better choice if you're going with the vans go van ginkle not van noy um but so we have benito as our second team we have garret and tray as our first team we still have one open spot that could be either parsons hunter or one of the one of the vans i don't know um i'm putting daniel hunter there if it's miles miles and tray and then nick and daniel but i want to i want to point out like i said i say Kyle van Noy because I want to shout out for the 33 year olds recently turned 33 cannot imagine how he is 12 and a half sacks 12 tactics for the last too bad to passes

two force fumbles like making a difference in the postseason with a detached like retina slash broken eye socket like that's pretty crazy to me and so like I'm just I wanted to shout him out yeah put him in my honorable mentions Greg as well as I hate I hate not having Michael Parsons and Micah Parsons. I hate not having Michael Parsons on this team instead of Benito. Man, like, where was Nick Benino in that playoff? Yeah, I don't know. Nick Benito had an incredible season.

Now you owe me one. Now you owe me one. Are we not even? I don't know. Who's keeping track? All right, we're even. Well, I need your help on this one because this is where. Interior was tough.

Actually, I was pretty clear with my top four. I just didn't know what order to put them in. My top four were Zach Allen, Jalen Carter, Cam Hayward, and Chris Jones. Yep, those were mine too. Okay, I had two honorable mentions, Dexter Lawrence, for half a season. I wouldn't have put him on a team, but he probably would have been first team for his half season. And then Leo Williams was pretty sweet for most of the year. That was the order I wrote them down in, Alan Carter, Hayward Jones.

I don't know if you have a first team, like, hope. I really think Zach Allen had kind of a first team all. pro type a year. I really do. Yeah. Yeah, I put Hayward Allen Jones Carter. Okay, let's just do that order. Yeah. Because I think Chris Jones, if we're counting the playoffs, you know, he gets a bump for sure. Hayward kind of disappeared a little bit at the end of the year. I don't know. He was maybe fighting suit through something. And Carter went crazy. I tell you what, now that we're talking playoffs, actually I don't want to have Hayward as my first team. I want to give some playoff bump to Carter or Chris.

If we're talking playoffs, then I think you have to give it to Chris Jones. Jalen Carter then also did basically win that game for the Eagles after the Rams were trying to make a comeback. So I want to give him a nod there. But I think going that, you're not going to get a lot of argument for me on going Zach Allen, Chris Jones is your first team. Okay. Let's do that.

No, we agreed. This is what this is what this is all about. Inside linebackers where I need help because you already know my first two, but I need you, I'm going to need your help on it. So I'll just give you my first team is Zach Bonn and Frankie Louvue. Same. But I need your help on the second team because this is one of the positions where, like, so much, so much is just unknown, like, some of the calls, some of the ways that they're aligning their defenses, like all of these things, whether or not their D-line is setting them up and then they have to make up for the D-line. And so, you know, there was a couple of guys that really stood out to me.

I liked I liked Dion Henley's season for the Chargers. I liked Roquan Smith's season. I have, of course, Fred Warner on here. I have actually, as an honorable mention, Ernest Jones quietly had like a really, really, really good year in Seattle. But I'm going to need Patrick Queen. You always talk about Patrick Queen. But, you know, I want to.

No Patrick Queen. I think this year. I don't have him. I haven't been an honorable mention as a shout out. But I had Zach Bond and Frankie Louva as my first team. And then I'm open for whatever conversation for second team. This is a position where it was harder to find obvious. options. I actually didn't think it was that hard to go Bonn and Louvre like you. And then

Warner to me is second team because of the same reason that I just said about Puka and AJ Brown. For the first, granted, it was only like six, seven games of the season. He was probably the defensive player of the year. So even though he played through an injury and wasn't the same in the second half of the year, that brilliance was so brilliant. He's an easy second teamer. That leaves one spot. And I actually settled pretty strongly on one guy and it's Blake Cashman. Oh, I like that one. You know what? I missed. I missed it because he missed part of the year, but he was absolutely excellent for them

when he was in the first part and then in the back part. I totally forgot about him. I knew I was going to forget someone, but I thought he was excellent this year. To me, it was him or Rokon. Rokon's so excellent, but until they kind of changed the responsibilities with that Ravens season,

like it seemed like Rokon was hurt for a bit. Like he was not playing well for a minute. And played Cashman missed the perfect amount of games, which was three. And the on-off splits were crazy. like their defense kind of fell apart without playing catchman and and he made he just felt like a really important glue guy on one of the defining defenses so i like him as a second teamer glad we agreed there all right cornerback i am curious where you went this this was one of the

toughest ones now all pro separates slot cornerback and outside corner so outside corner has two spots first team two spots second team and then slot is is separate so let's start with outside corner. Yes. So outside corner, I have Pat Certain, first team. I have Sting, first team. Second team, I have Sting's teammate, Camari Lasseter. Wow. And I also have Christian Gonzalez. Kamari Lassar and Derek Stingley Jr. allowed the lowest and second lowest completion percentages among defenders with at least 50 targets faced this season, including the playoffs. Totally made the absolute difference in at least their miniature playoff run in that first game. And I just think, Like, where the hell are you going to throw?

I'm thinking about it from this perspective. I wanted to get the teammates on there because where in the hell are you going to throw the football? Obviously, the chiefs picked them apart right up the seams where they were lacking players, right? And so this is, to me, I like having them, these teammates that really anchored this, really, this defense that could show it was truly outstanding in flashes this year, especially in that playoff game. I like the thought, but I'm going to push back on Lasseter. I don't think, I don't think, although the fourth spot is wide open. So the toughest decision I had this whole time was Stingley or Gonzalez on my first team. I ended up going with Stingley because of that playoff game.

I think Gonzalez probably is a better, is a slightly better player and maybe even at a slightly better season, but that playoff game put it over the top for me. So I went with you and went Stingley and Sertan first team, Gonzalez's second team. That leaves one spot. I think it has to go to one of these four guys. Quinyan Mitchell. Oh, yeah.

Christian Benford. Christian Benford was great this year. He really was like a CB1 on a really good defense. Trent McDuffie, not probably his best, you know, playing outside. And he got moved around. He got moved around too. He got moved around too. He got moved around too.

And then Denzel Ward, like, I don't, I'd have to talk to more people about it. but his best games are like the best of anyone's best games. So I wrote him down. I would take off Kamari if we put on Quinyan. That was the guy I ultimately put in my fourth spot, but I didn't feel strong about it. I would have accepted Benford or maybe McDuffey Award. So let's go Quinyon Mitchell.

Second team opera. Why not? So wait. So PS2, Sting, Christian Gonzalez, and Quinyon, Mitchell is our outside corners. In the slot. Ooh, wait, do you owe me one yet? No, let's talk about it. Let's talk about it.

Because I don't owe you, you know, but let's talk about it. Because, and I've been texting with one of our friends, Bo Wolf, planning that this is what I was going to do to you today. Oh, wow. Because when you remember Greg, all the way back at the beginning of the season, when all of this needless debate over where is Cooper to Jean going to play when he is finally healthy and what is he going to do and how is he going to blah, blah, blah, blah. blah. Okay. Actually, he is built ideally for the revamped Vic Fangio defense and the star position, which is a slot position. And it's a hybrid between a safety and a corner. And they have different coverage rules than some teammates sometimes. And to watch Cooper DeGine really take over that role and turn into, in my opinion, one of the better slot defenders in the entire NFL, especially

down the stretch, if you go and watch some of the All-22 about where he positions himself, and where he's just able to affect the direction and the way that plays are made and the way that he has as a tackler. I think that I would like to talk about him and Bo Wolf does as well about potentially making this team, maybe second team. We'll see. Well, I didn't write him down. I should have because I also wrote down Garrett Williams from the Cardinals,

just as an honorable mention. I would put to Jean ahead of him probably, Theron Johnson. The actual second team surprised me. It was Derwin James. Yeah, that really surprised me. But that's why I felt like that spot. I wrote him down. I feel stronger about my second teamer than anything else here. I put Marlon Humphrey, which is what the voters did too, as my first team.

Yeah, me too. I put Devin Weatherspoon as my second. Devin Weatherspoon is such a good player. And he didn't have a lot of ball production this year because they didn't like throw at him. But everything you're saying about DeGine, I just think if you asked everyone around the league, like, who's a better player right now? who had a better season i think it's i know he didn't have like crazy numbers but when you watch him he might be he's so good devon wetherspin is so good that i really want him on this team that my i know he i know devon witherspoon is so good he's written on my notes but okay i do want to tell

you that this this the way that the eagles are able to stay in their a plus defense the entire game the championship game eagles are able to stay in their a plus defense because they have the sort of of master key player that Vic Fangio has always coveted in his schemes, but has now developed some of his coverages forward because he has a Quinion Mitchell and because he has a Cooper Gene, because he's got safeties playing well, but because he has a, like, it reminds me of 2020 with what they were trying to do at times with the, with Jalen Ramsey and then also with Troy Hill at different times where you try to make this an unavoidable player. So you have to tilt all of your coverages away from somebody who happens to be taking.

up space in the middle field and you can keep them on tight ends. You can keep them deep if you want to, but you probably don't want to because you want them around the ball at all times. And so I think that that's where I would make this argument. And I was telling Bo last night when I was texting him, I was totally going to do this. And my brain is now wired to automatically argue with you in my head as I make a case for something and then bring somebody onto my team. So we're agreeing on Marlon Humphrey for sure. 100%. Yeah. And I don't want to take it. anything away from Devin Weatherspoon. The only person I wrote on this entire sheet feel strong next to was Devin Witherspoon. But, you know, it's been a great first year with

you, Jordan. No one knows ball like you. I will just give you Cooper DeGine, even though I don't agree with it. I mean, he would probably be my third or fourth team. It's not like, it's crazy. I'm getting to you. I don't like it. Devin Witherspoon, if you're out there, you know, Seahawks fans, I believe, I believe he's a better player. Devin Witherspoon, I think you're one of the best defensive players in the league. Greg is trying to, again, tilt. Well, you wouldn't even put him on over. Greg is the ultimate slot corner because he's tilting coverage is left and right

and changing goalposts for arguments, you know. For what it's worth, you know, Dejean didn't play the first month. Okay, well, we have Blake Cashman at Inside Mechacker, and he didn't play three games either. The comparison here is between these two guys. I don't think Dejean's heights. You wanted Micah Parsons on there, and he's the greatest defense. of players in the league. The argument for those guys is they were so much better than the other guys.

We had Pooka Nakua on there too, and he, you know, missed. The argument for those guys is they were so next level when they did play. And I don't believe Cooper DeGine is that compared to what I'm a best slot. I'm giving it to you. I'm giving it to you. I'm giving it to you. I'm not happy about it. Safeties.

I went with both lines. I went with Joseph and Branch. And then I had McKinney. The fourth safety, who did you have? I kind of left that open with – I actually put – I know it was spotty at first, but I actually put Kyle Hamilton down there, too, because once he got moved back and they made some of those adjustments in their secondary, it just was night and day. You could just tell that things were a little bit strained early on. And I just think watching him play is just pure – it's just pure joy, watching how he navigates space and manipulates it. Like, it's just awesome to watch.

I wrote down Darwin as my initial one, like, counted him as a safety, but obviously. So you could put him in the slot. And then, you know, just to have some Cardinals representation, we could put Buda Baker here as a second. I know. And I like that he got a nod, too. And I put him, I put him a question mark, question mark. Could be on this list, could be honorable mention.

That's what I did with Buda Baker. So we're going Joseph and Branch as our team. I was surprised Branch didn't even come close to making all pro, which is crazy to me. But he would have been, he would have gotten my first place vote, but reasonable minds disagree. I know the production wasn't there at the end, but I just think of his value. And then McKinney's second team. And then it's either Hamilton, Buddha or Buddha, I guess, for the second team. I'll probably go Buddha.

I feel much stronger about my Weatherspoon pick. Can I put him at safety? No, it doesn't really make sense. All right. And then finally the kickers. Just put him on the list. Good Lord. No.

No. Actually, let's make a new, let's make a new category. I don't feel that strongly about any of this. So you do you do what you want to do. We're going to do it every year. Like I said, this is a document. We're putting it up on social. Every year we get to add just one player each.

And you can choose any team, any position. I love that. Because let's put Joe and let's put, let's put Burrow back at quarterback as the third. Okay. And then we'll put Witherspoon as the third in the slot. I love this. This is great compromise. We each get one wild card pick every year.

I love it. I love that you're getting Joe Burrow on there. Yeah, I love this. This is great. Now, this is the platonically ideal roster. Platonic. Yes. I, I love, see, we can. Oh, yeah. Oaksmund. Ongsman. Okay, that's it for the all-pro team. I thought we'd be quicker. Of course, we're not. Let's take one quick break, and we're going to run through the awards, and we're going to get onto our day, down, down to the Belascoe Theater, back in a minute. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin.

And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get.

Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development

to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year.

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We have really great guests, some big-time quarterbacks. Big time players at other positions. Again, I don't want to jinx it because sometimes these things change at the last minute. In aggregate, they're going to be great, but I'm not going to say the names. Very excited. But there is a name that we're going to be mentioning here for offensive rookie of the year that, you know, we have written down. So hopefully we get to talk to him. MVP, we ended up kind of agreeing on Lamar on first team.

I didn't feel strong about it. I almost want to just make Sequin the MVP just ask. after these playoffs and we're allowed to vote it. And then I don't have to choose. Can we do, should I do that? I wrote down Lamar, Alan, Saquan. And then literally as we're talking, would it be fun to just make it Sequin or no?

When you wonder why these shows go long, Greg? This is an example of why. All right, let's go Lamar, Allen, and Sequin. Jordan has asked for this part of the show. I'm gonna present my three and she's just gonna tell me where she disagrees or wants to change it. So I will go Lamar, Alan, Sequan, one, two, three.

What do you think? I agree. Okay. Defensive player of the year, toughest one. I think it's different than figuring out our all pros. Like Miles Garrett, to me, could be first team all pro, but maybe not defensive player of the year. Although he is finalist because, I don't know, it's tough. You have to be so far ahead of the pack, I think, to be on a team that bad, and he just wasn't. So in the end, and I'm thinking about the playoffs, too.

I'm going Zach Bond, defensive player of the year. Patrick Serchan, number two, and Trey Hendrickson 3. I just think what you think about this season, it feels like more it was the Zach Bond season than anything. And he was the key to the best defense in the league. Whoa, I think that broke my brain. I mean, I like your argument. But I still think Miles Garrett should be the defensive player of the year. I do like your argument.

If you went Miles Bond, Certain, I'd be fine with that. I'm sticking with my guy, Bond. We'll put in Miles over, Trey. I kind of agree with you there, at least. So we'll go Certain second and Miles Garrett third. Offensive player of the year, this is where Sequin will get his, like, sloppy seconds. Kind of weird. So let's just make a quarterback award and an offensive player award separate.

But, yeah, I went Sequin, Chase, and Burrow. It's like all the guys that you couldn't give the MVP too necessarily. Yeah, Chase has to be in there. I mean, the way, what do you accomplish this season? and like it kind of felt sneaky quiet that he yeah yeah you know what i mean like it just felt like that he just racked up you know what a triple crown and like it just it just felt like it went way under the radar maybe that's like part of the machine doing its work because they're trying to suppress his pay eventually or something but like it just felt like it was i just felt like it was

quiet like it just was too quiet i would have liked to see more celebration of that i know that there was some but like i just i would have liked to see people focus more on that that's an amazing thing to do it is and the saquan thing bothers me too because if this was not an mvp running back season there there can't be one you know but i yeah or there can't be one in a season like this again if you put saquan into last season i think he wins this award over two thousand twenty three lamar jackson which was one of the weakest MVP years i've ever seen it happens now and then there was there was there was a defensive player of the year award where no one knew who to give in like terrell suggs one and he had a good year but it was just like he got like 15 votes but no one knew it happened

sometimes uh offensive rookie of the year this is the name i was teasing before jaden daniels number one and then our guy brock bowers we'll give him a two here uh we kept them off the all pro sure five yeah it's it's too bad we could we do ties at tight end that would be we could really be just sneaky here uh and then i put brian thomas as my third nice i like that one if you were were going to say malik neighbors i would have roasted you again for putting a truncated season again even though you're arguing with me that i can't do it um again anyway i like your picks great picks nice job good thinking nice brain there are levels jordan if you put the i know i know do you not see the knife twisting it's like the terrell davis hall of fame case it's like you have to be torel davis

to make the hall of fame off those five years but you weren't torel davis it's just nice to know there are just certain things that can get under your skin gregg Honestly, like, it's just nice. Comeback player of the year. Burroughs probably going to win it. And I have to admit I wrote him down first, but I hate this award. I'm actually changing it now, and I'm going to be biased towards our guest on NFL Daily at Chargers Camp. And I'm going to give it to J.K. Dobbins, and I'll go Darnold second and Damar Hamlin third.

I think it's going to be stupid when Burrow wins offensive player of the year, potentially, and comeback player of the year. and that could happen. So it's like, it's kind of a weird award. But I'm going to go Dobbins, Darnold, Damar, Hamelin. One thing I did want to ask is, how comfortable are you doing that, knowing that also Dobbins did not have a complete season? And I say that very earnestly. Like, he then, unfortunately, I hated seeing it, but was hurt again.

So it's almost like, okay, well, do you give him an incomplete? And then you go Darnold, Hamlin, Burrow, or do you kind of write the wrong? of the DeMar Hamlin situation last year. You go Hamlin first. This award is so convoluted and messed up at this point that I don't know that there's any right way to do it. Yeah, I really hope the NFL, I need to find someone to talk to, could make a most improved award because I think that's a better award.

Yeah. You could do come back and that's off injury, but do most improved. Or like literal death. The candidates, which I just looked up and I didn't know, were actually the players we all just said, plus Christian Gonzalez was in that mix. Coach of the year, this is one we did talk about in the show quite a bit. I now considering the playoffs, I threw Dan Quinn into the top three,

but I still stuck with my original one-two, which was Dan Campbell, Andy Reed. I didn't feel like I wanted to be pushed off of that. But I now snuck Quinn in as third. And if you put Sean Payton in there, I wouldn't argue with you either. I had Andy Reed and then Dan Quinn and then Dan Campbell. Okay. And then there is an assistant coach of the year award. And the finalists are really funny. Do you have any strong takes on this? Vic M. Fangio wins this award. Yeah. I think he might win the award. And that will be really funny to see the taped video that he sends into NFL honors or whatever. Yeah, he's going to be so grumpy. He's going to be so mad. Joe Brady was nominated, by the way. Ben Johnson is a finalist. If you didn't give it to Fangio, and this guy is not. not a finalist. I always say with this award, it does not say coordinator of the year.

It says assistant coach. So give me some Jeff Stoutland. Let's give him like a career achievement award. You just turned Mackay Beckton and the Sequin season into absolute goal, new center, Dickerson's like used to play like everything is my lot as a development case. So I'm giving my assistant coach of the year to Jeff Stoutland. But I think Vic Fangio would be a great Let's have them share it. I mean, front side of the ball, back side of the ball. Like, you got it. Like, I love it.

You've got it. And you know who would really love sharing it is Vic Fangio. I don't think, maybe I'm wrong. Actually, he probably would want the credit. Everyone wants it. It was sarcasm, Greg, but he wants a little, yeah, Pat in the back. I was going to say, I'm arguing to myself that he doesn't care about awards. You know, he's a guy who's going to be like, I don't care, but deep down, you know.

That's not true. They all care about awards. You know, Vick cares. I know. I'm looking forward to NFL honors. That is Thursday night. I'm looking forward to tonight, downtown at the Belasco Theater. Again, if you're listening to this on Monday, it's not too late.

If you're in the L.A. area and all the tickets will go to a great cause supporting wildfire relief efforts. Thank you, Jordan. I will see you tonight. Also see you on Tuesday because we're on the same plane. But I will see you on air on Wednesday. hit the music. Let's get out of here. Thanks, Jordan. Tuesday show, and there will be a show. We'll be done at the Chris Wesleying podcast studio with my friend Patrick Claibon. Might try to get another guest here before

I go and get on that plane. And yeah, we're just two days away from getting on that plane. You know football is back. This is an I-Heart podcast.