NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Narratives for the 2022 Season with Conor Orr

Episode Date: May 10, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Gregg Rosenthal and Marc Sessler bring you all of the latest news around the NFL, starting with Tom Brady's deal with FOX Sports to become the network's lead analyst upon his retirement. The heroes hit other free agent signings around the league and talk through some of the top remaining players who have still yet to sign with a team. Then, the hosts discuss the primetime games the NFL has already announced this week. After that, Conor Orr of Sports Illustrated joins the show to look beneath the surface at potential narratives that could shape the course of the 2022 NFL season.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast. Kinsprekenz-Deutsch. Welcome to another episode of the Around the NFL podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal, and I just asked, what does Dan say at the beginning of the show every time alongside one hero here in the Chris Wesleyan podcast? studio. It's Mark Sessler. It's me and you, buddy. I don't think that we've done, you know, what, 14, we didn't even know, 1,400 plus 1,000 episodes or 100 episodes, whatever the word is, the number.

But we, the combination of you and I doing a show together, I don't think, has occurred. No, I don't think so alone. It makes me feel a little more alive. That's good. Just like anything that changes up routine, that's good. It also shows like our lack of chops, our lack of professionalism that like I was like what just me and Mark doing a podcast what two two white guys doing a podcast that's so atypical that's never been done before we need way more help than that that it does speak poorly of us on that front how is your mother's day though not that you're a mother but like I thought I'd ask you because I would imagine it was nice uh it was it was pretty uneventful I Emma could put my mind at ease when I kind of talked about mother's day and she's like

I'm not your mother like you don't need to get and I was like that's kind of true That's refreshing. Like, you know, it's more that the kids did a lot of nice stuff, and yeah, we ate some good food. She didn't have, you know, it was nice. Yeah. I had to whip our children into shape on some fronts. They didn't quite get the aspect that it was a day where they aren't served,

but are serving someone else. That's not always a front burner scenario in our home for them to comprehend. So, but we had a nice time. And then we gave them an Xbox that we had been kept hidden for years because we thought it would turn into something negative. But it was pleasant. We played mad at the end of the night. I played Simone and Madden, and we played Niners versus Niners, and she kicked my ass.

And I was talking a big game, like, I was like talking about how balanced my, I mean, I just got, got totally, she threaded the needle on me. Like, was she very creative in how she used Debo Samuel? Absolutely. Debo Samuel had, I had like an 86-yard catch on the drive number two, and I never really came back. But also, you know, we have two Jimmy G's. My Jimmy G threw three picks. Hers was relatively flawless, true to life, the week-to-week experience. Yours was the Jimmy G that showed up in the playoffs.

Hers was like 2017, Jimmy G. That's how you keep romance alive. No, we have younger people behind the desk. Now that I'm sitting actually in Dan's chair, I'm looking at Justin Graver and Christy and Randy, the whole crew, like too much. I think Randy's back there. And their relative youth bothers me.

But I had my 15th wedding anniversary last weekend. Dan is not in the country right now. He's at an undisclosed location. We should have mentioned celebrating his wedding anniversary. And that's one way to keep romance alive. So that's just my advice for the younger people behind the glass is play a lot of Madden together. Well, right. I mean, you know, different situations, different needs.

That's why I didn't really have to celebrate Mother's Day. It's like it's a big one-two punch every year anniversary right before Mother's Day. Really, what are you going to do? Yeah, the kids, the kids, they cooked her some stuff in the morning. But in the end, do you really want to eat, like, what a 10- and 7-year-old can make? No. Like, they can make some toast with butter. Limited amount of that, please.

I think it's not that great. There's actually a lot to talk about today, surprisingly. Tom Brady's back in the news. We'll get to that quickly, decent amount of news. And I'm even more excited about our friend, Connor, who's going to be joining us later on this show. You once hosted a podcast that wasn't really a podcast because it was on a news. because it was on another strange service. The podcast was called Heat and Light.

Yes, it was a real podcast, just to be clear. But the service was called what? It was sort of a newfangled. You know, if I tried to was remembering the name of it, and I could not. But it wasn't actually like a podcast feed. It was some other strange service that you had to go onto that. I see what you're trying to do. It was also getting monster numbers.

It was doing great. I'm not sure how we quantify success. But then the app failed and our show went, got pulled under with it. Graver, I know you're new to this. but that's one thing in addition to the oath that you need to do when you become our podcast producer

is go back and listen to all the heat and light episodes. They're great. It's Connor and Mark talking about conspiracies, talking about dark forces that are in the universe and it's a delightful program.

And we're going to bring back the spirit of heat and light on this episode by talking about some maybe mysterious, dark, conspiratorial elements maybe of the 22

2022 NFL season Graverdiger just nod your head because while it sounds like that would be a lot of work you can't actually find those episodes they don't they literally do not exist out in the world at this point

so just say yes it sounds like a great idea for a spin-off pod that Mark Sessler would host right that's what it was essentially that's literally what it was I think I had just started the Jessel Nick and Rosenthal Vanity Project

JRPP And Dan had started his music podcast, a throwback podcast. And so Mark wanted to step into the fray. He was feeling threatened. Again, this is a re-narrative of how it actually went. But I think Connor and I at some point lost motivation. That might have been a big part of it. And how does Courts of Thunder fit into all of this?

That's just another new one. That's just, again, trying to stay alive, embracing your passions in life as you get into your 40s. I'm also passionate about news. Let's do some news. I don't have anything. So Graver just needs to be told that there's going to be news. You know, like, yeah, Dan spoon feeds you, right? Dan tells me everything.

And at this point, like, we'll have added the news in post. Actually, maybe we won't. I think we should not. Let's be real about what just happened here. We will have added it. I'm like, let's let the producer produce. We've done 1,400 episodes. Graver's been a part of at least more than 100 of them.

At this point, he would probably realize that we do news every episode. He just have an appropriate sound drop ready. I think it gives you something to work on for the next episode. This is... Right. When we have our like goodbye to Graver video with lots of tears in a few years, we can use this clip of like, oh, look how far he's grown. He knows what he's doing.

It's going to be a few weeks if he doesn't start on. Sean, did you note that? Please, please put it away. Let's talk Tom Brady. He's joining Fox Sports. What? He's making $375 million over 10 years. What?

Like, he's going to be an ambassador for Fox. This was announced on a shareholder briefing by someone named Lachlan Murdoch. What? Like, what is happening here? This doesn't seem like a real story. It is a real story. He's going to be the lead analyst. We don't know who's going to be the lead analyst for the 2022 season.

season. But whenever Tom Brady retires, he's going to become the lead analyst. The contract's already done. What is going on here, Mark? I mean, to put it into context, Joe Buck and Troy Aikman, who have done 300 plus games together and get better and better, are making a combined 33.5 million together. Which, to be fair, it seems fair. I mean, they're making a lot of money. Yeah, they just made a move to make more money. And you thought they were topping out the market to some degree. You've got Tony Romo in there. This deal is insane. Here's the thing, like, and everyone's debating, will Tom Brady be good at this? Like, my stance, and I think it's a fair one, is I'm totally suspicious of literally anyone shoved into the analyst role until we know they're good. Because

Tom Brady, and I'm not saying, oh, he's boring, so he's going to be boring at this. Maybe there's a version of Tom Brady that is minus filter, that is more unleashed. That's going to change and grow and show us something else. There's not a lot of evidence for that, number one. But two, It's not that he's Joe Montana. It's not that he's Johnny Unitas who both floundered in the booth. It's just that it's a special skill to be a quarterback, but it's a totally different skill, even if you have all the knowledge that he does to communicate it to us.

And there's no proof that he's going to be good at it. There's also no proof that he's totally going to suck other than his personality is a little bit vanilla. A lot of vanilla. My initial reaction was the odds on him being better than Kurt Warner next year. Kurt Warner I think is great on radio when they give him the TV in the analyst role, or Charles Davis, who we know, or Greg Olson. I'm just throwing out a lot of names.

You could, the top shelf of the end. The odds on Tom Brady being better or even close to as good as them off the bat is small, I would say, because of what you said, that it's a totally different skill set. Like the best quarterbacks will make the best analyst and vice versa. Like Tony Romo's amazing. I wouldn't have necessarily guessed or thought that. Part of the reason he's amazing is his enthusiasm and he just sort of understands TV. whether Tom Brady has tried out for this role and it went well or not, we don't know.

We know that it didn't go that well for Drew Brees. I think when given the opportunity last year and he wasn't a natural, which is fine, but you're locking yourself into 10 years of doing it. The one thing that makes me think that he could be good is just that he's doing this at all. Because why would he be signing up now other than the money, which is crazy? I mean, he's making double what everyone else is making. He's making more in retirement than he is as a player. He's making more than he ever made for the Patriots or the bucks he's going to make with Fox Sports, which is outrageous.

And maybe that's the answer to the question. Maybe he's not that passionate about doing that, but the money is just too good to pass up. And it helps him do a lot of other things. But I'd like to think as a Patriots fan watching Brady forever that, like, he knows what we're all saying, that maybe he wouldn't be that good at it. And if he's going to make this big a commitment for this big money that he's going to try his very best to be great. And that's like half the battle. Well, there are whispers that one of the reasons Drew Breeze is not succeeding beyond the fact that I think we all saw from a distance that his personality wasn't going to be overly engaging to begin with is that Drew Breeze maybe hasn't put in the work. You have to put in your job changes.

Like these guys that go do two games a week or one game a week, it's like you're in deep dense film study. I mean, that's not different for Tom Brady, but then you've got to go communicate it. And I just think, like, we know Greg Olson looks like he could have been a number one color analyst for Fox. And he very well might be. I would think he's the favorite to do it for 2022, which is also weird because Burkhart and Olson

might set a really high standard, and then Brady comes in and he's worse. That's the thing. It's like Tom Brady suddenly is going to have, he has competition. We already are seeing people that are setting the bar at a high place, and then Tom Brady is not used to beyond, like, Brady haters and Patriots haters getting destroyed on Twitter during Monday night football

because he's not doing a great job. And I think we're also in a world where, like, viewership is changing. He signed up for the old horse, the old color analyst job where you're going to do games the way they've been done. The Manning cast probably is closer to what a lot of people of different ages would want to experience and see at least for part of a game. I just, I'm, I can't wait to see it. The part of it feels a little fishy to me.

But maybe I'm old-fashioned that I just kind of wish Dayton Manning was in the booth because now I've seen him at home and we know he can do it and I would like I love the way he lives and dies with the quarterbacks and maybe there'll be some of that with Brady but over the years he hasn't given off in front of a microphone the same sort of enthusiasm and of course he has that enthusiasm for the sport if he if he can communicate some of the knowledge that he has he'll be great he knows so much about all these different players good and bad and even if it's not bearing players. I saw, you know, we talked about Brady on NFL now and, you know,

Mark Giardi's asking, like, is he going to be critical? That's kind of what you need. Yeah, that would be nice, but I just can't imagine that happen. You can still be pretty good without being that critical. Tony Romo isn't that critical ever and he's still quite good at it. If you can really teach me something, especially in the first few years, when Brady, like, absolutely knows more about Chauncey Gardner Johnson the nickelback of the saints and all of their secondary tendencies than anyone else on the planet.

So if he can communicate that stuff, he doesn't need to bury everyone to be good. But I just haven't seen any proof of that, like unless Tom Brady's been trying to be purposefully uninteresting. And I guess he has been. Like in front of a microphone that's part of his strategy, it doesn't help him do his job. But I don't know. Like even off the field, I read a book by Charles Pierce, one of the best sports writers, great writer of the last 20 years. I think he's a great writer. He really struggled to make Tom Brady like an interesting human.

And I think that's a little part of it too. Yeah, I think Tom Brady can't have simply been hiding his core true personality from us for the past two plus decades. I think you've got obviously robotic version of him with the Patriots. He's changed a little bit with the Bucks. But now we're saying go be your personality. You can't bring his social media guys with them into the booth. Like everyone who says like Tom Brady's like, we've seen more of his personalities. Yeah, but it's all his social media guys.

Either their tweets and TikToks that they write or the bits that they write for him and that he executes. And it's fun doing it. Like I've never seen him in the flow of an actual conversation be overly quick. That would be the challenge. I mean that's too hard. Well, I think it's. Ricky responded on Twitter like when will you stop doubting this guy. For the amount of money.

I've never doubted him once at anything. No. And for the amount of money, like I think it. It's fair to have a critical eye about the whole thing. Something about the whole thing feels also like big industries. I don't know. There's just a little more to this. You're getting to something here.

When they announced the deal and they didn't put the money with it when Fox announced it on this shareholder. Big Mike will call it. I mean, this is very succession. Like they're announcing it on the shareholder meeting. A man named Lachlan Murdoch, who I'm not familiar. But if you could have guessed, what is the Murdoch's son's name? Lockland would have been in the top five guesses.

The fact that he announced it on a shareholder meeting, and he called him that he would be, like, a brand ambassador as well. And so that makes me think, like, okay, they're going to pay him to do that job. But, like, they know that Greg Olson could do that job just as well for a fifth as much money. They're paying him for these sponsor things where they could just just trot Tom Brady around like a show pony to all the other sponsors. and he, like, agrees to do five events a year where, like, basically they're paying to hang out with Tom Brady. Like, the Murdox want to hang out with Tom Brady. Sounds pure.

Love you, Tom. I love Tom Brady. Love you, bro. I find this story really interesting. The rest of the news isn't as much of the last quick thing is, like, I do kind of feel bad about the Drew Breeze factor. We've been mean about his performance as a broadcaster on this show, including today. And yet, there's something about, like, that,

Breeze was up for this job, and like Tom Brady, who's not even retired, is now swatting the possibility of this away, making triple the amount of money that Breeze could have ever hoped to get Fox just so that they can hold the seat warm for him. This is the same man who ended Drew Breeze's career, and then he threw passes with Drew Breeze's sons on the field afterwards. It's like, I'm not saying that Tom Brady hates Drew Breeze and wants to make his life miserable. I believe the opposite. But he's acting like a person. If that's how you felt about Drew Breeze,

he's doing all the actions that you would expect out of that person. Yeah, there are elements of like hyper competition. I see what you're saying. But again, I think Drew Breeze. And Manning. They're all competing again. But Drew Breeze is Drew Breeze's biggest problem. Okay.

It ain't Tom Brady because someone was going to pay Tom Brady a ton of money to do something at some point. Drew Breeze, his cue rating, dipped tremendously last season because he's not fun to watch and not interesting to listen to. All right. We got to stop killing Breastie. And Manning didn't want this job as much. He could have had it. Obviously, he could have had this Fox job.

He could have had the ESPN job. He could have had any job he wants. He understandably liked this idea of just like hanging out at his house and talking with Eli. That makes too much sense. Right. He's got it better. They also don't do 17 weeks of it. It's, you know, they come and go. He also doesn't mind telling his wife and family, oh, yeah, by the way, remember that whole idea I was going to hang out with you more.

I'm going to leave on a plane every Thursday and return. every Monday for the whole NFL season, just like before, as a broadcaster. I think we knew that the Hangout with Family thing was going to be elementally short-lived. I also think this has to mean this is his last year, or very likely his last year, which I heard. That's the last point. I'm with you, because it's Tom Brady, so I would never suspect this about him. But if it were another player announcing all this post-career stuff and then still telling us,

like, it's not going to be a distraction. I am plugged in as a player, number one. He's just made too many moves to talk about post-career. We've never seen Tom Brady do that before the past couple months. Right. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think it'll be a distraction. But I absolutely believe that this deal increases the chances

that his last season in the NFL is 2022. I had already heard... Isn't that at its heart of distraction, though? I'm not saying it's going to talk about in the locker room nonstop. But he's already basically said, let's say the season goes poorly. Do we think that he's going to come back and say, let's do this again and get out of our fix that we were in the year before? No, he's going to go do this other job. I think there's something to the point that when you start talking about retirement, that's troubling.

You're already a foot out the door and football is so hard. That said, I don't think it's going to compromise like what he puts into the job this year. I just had already heard a little whispers about some other stuff that Brady, you know, off the field that indicated that this was probably going to be his last year. I don't think anyone truly knows. Tom Brady does whatever Tom Brady wants. If he won the Super Bowl and he feels like playing again, he's going to do whatever the hell he wants. All right.

Also in the news, quickly, we'll talk about it if it actually happens. But Richard Sherman, who you did the broadcast boot camp with, is supposedly joining the Amazon crew. And that would be a fun hire. And that also might mean that he could be retiring, potential future Hall of Famer. So he's already got his own podcast, which is an awesome listen. And he was, there were a lot of stars at that boot camp.

coming in being like, I've never done media before. In fact, like, you could see them just elevating beyond all the rubs that were hanging out with them like us, like trying to just show them how to do a podcast. Most of the point is so that they can meet the Fox and NFL Network executives that are there. It's a smart move, obviously. They did a great job, but Richard Sherman, like, is such a natural that I think whatever they, like, I have no concerns about Richard Sherman being engaging and interesting, none.

Neither do I. I mean, if I could choose to have one guy or the other in the booth, I would go. Sherman over Brady. Yes. Sherman cornerback, who's a free agent, another free agent, James Bradbury,

recently cut by the Giants. We will talk about him after this break. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective

a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL. NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get.

Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from Scouting Report. and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level,

we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. James Bradbury, cornerback that is now a free agent after being cut by the Giants. This was a strange move because on paper, He was their best cornerback, maybe a year ago,

a Dory Jackson outplayed him, but he literally made the Pro Bowl in 2020, and he's only 28 years old. He is into the top 20 of my top 101 free agents, which obviously most of them are signed, but kind of post-stadiate. He's a good player that's now available, and I would think get signed quickly.

It just seems like, thank you, Dave Gettleman, because Joe Shane, general manager, inherited a lot of money issues, and you can critique some of what the job Giants had done this offseason, but I thought they handled the draft really well. This just was like people saying, we know you've got to cut them because you can't even sign. They're using the money the $10 million plus they save. They have $11 million in dead money to sign their draft class.

That's how up against it they were. So it was just like they were not going to, the trade value dipped day by day because it was so obvious they had to cut them. Well, it sounded like they had some conversations. I believe the Texans were the team that were mentioned. Texans, by the way, also signed Jerry Hughes on Tuesday. We'll get to some of the lower-level signings. But I like that the Texans are trying to get into this whatever wave of free agency there is because there's actually a lot of good players available, way more than usual.

And Bradbury, you're right, it was smart for teams to wait it out. The reason it didn't work is because they wanted to renegotiate a contract. And he's like, why would I do that? Why would I help any new team out? I want to just be a free agent and pick my next location. The Eagles have been mentioned as a potential landing spot. I love that. They could really use another cornerback.

And they're trying to win right now. Why not do that? The Raiders have been mentioned as a potential landing spot. Patrick Graham, who coached him in New York. That makes a lot of sense. To a pro bowl season could go after them. There's a lot of teams that need cornerbacks. Like, you don't need to overthink this.

He's 28 years old turning 29. He was a pro bowler in 2020. I know he didn't have like a great 2021 newsflash. That's like every cornerback except for eight or nine of them. They go up, they go down. If you go from your highs being a top 10 cornerback to your lows being an average starter, those guys make $10 million a year.

Like he's a pretty great player to be available. Yeah, and also defense is your environment. But Patrick Graham in Vegas, that would be a juicy fit for James Bradbury. Their secondary stinks too. They need them. They could absolutely use them. A couple other free agent signings. I mentioned Jerry Hughes.

He was in my top 30 going to the Texans. Like that. The Texans are starting to get a little more active. I feel like if they actually added some decent players in the next month, they could be somewhat competitive. I don't think they're the worst roster anymore in the entire NFL. Sony Michelle goes to the Dolphins. A couple of signings we missed a week ago,

just because of when we taped, was Bryce Callahan, the former Baron Bronco. and Kyle Van Nuoy to the Chargers, any of those moves, Michelle, Hughes, the Chargers moves, do anything for me. I think the Dolphins are going to be a fun watch, but I do think you could probably sense the skulls of fantasy heads exploding all over the planet because Sony Michelle is added to a backfield that also has Chase Edmonds, Rahim Mossert, and Miles Gaskin. So it's like they had issues. One of those guys probably isn't making the team. I would think maybe Miles Gaskin because the other three are all brought in by the new coaching staff.

but that's a good point. Michelle, maybe not a lock just because he doesn't help much on passing downs or special teams, but he's a solid contributor. He definitely helped the Rams on their way to winning the Super Bowl. Jerry Hughes can still play. Like, it's very rare, and I think this is going to benefit the teams that have some cap space left. Your Browns are certainly one of them to really use that money well in the next month. Here's some players still available.

O'Dell Beckham, Dwayne Brown, Genevian Clowny, Melvin Ingram, Rob Gunkowski, Akeem Hicks, Trey Flowers, J.C. Tredder, Will Fuller, Eric Fisher, Julio Jones, Anthony Barr, Justin Houston, Indomacan Su, Sheldon Richardson, Kevin King. I just went through, like, most of the guys left on my 101. All those guys can play football. Like, all those guys can play 500-plus snaps in the NFL, and they're going to be better, for the most part, than your second or third-round pick that you just spent two months talking about on podcasts or breaking down how they're going to fit in.

Like, most of those guys are going to be better than your second and third round picks. And they're out there now. And it hasn't been like that. And I really think it's something I've been focused on in terms of team building that teams need to spend more to the cap. They need to spend as much money as they can. Like, if not, well, like, there's no downside. Like, you're not doing what you can to win. So I think this next month is my overall point.

teams can really improve themselves and it's going to make a difference when it comes to September. It does seem like scenery-wise, this time around, there was a big, let's do the draft part and see what holes still remain.

But this lineup of players you just mentioned, these are the graybeards right now and they're probably like seven and two. They're seven and two right now. Like, they're fine. I mean, maybe they're hanging in there

if they're in a bad division. They're better than they've ever been. And I think everyone thought they were going to get these big contracts and free agency this year because the cap was going way up after a couple years of down there. And these guys, at least, weren't happy.

They didn't get them. They didn't get those deals. But it doesn't mean they can't get three or four million dollars. One of those guys, by the way, is Jarvis Landry. It's been reported that the Ravens are interested in him. And that feels like a good fit. Yeah, and it's also, you know, Cleveland was on the map. And Mary Kay Cabot said that the door seems closed at this point.

So the Ravens would be a good fit. Ravens also added Mike Davis to their backfield, who I think I like more than other people. I just kind of trust the Ravens to do well by running backs as well. Right. They ran out of running backs last year, and it actually affected them. If everyone's healthy, Mike Davis probably isn't going to get a lot of run. But he had a bad year in Atlanta.

I was higher on that signing, then it certainly turned out. It didn't really work. But you're right. You have JK Dobbins, Gus Edwards, and now if there's injuries there, you have a nice backup. If Landry goes to Baltimore, I don't hate their receiver group. Everyone is panicking about the receiver group. If you're offensive line... Nor do I love it, though, but...

Yeah, but like, you can't be perfect at every position, and they're obviously a team that can live without great receivers. And I would look at it this way. Andrews is your number one. Bateman's your number two. I think he'll be fine. Landry is your number three, two and three with Bateman. And Duvernay, who I like a lot,

and I have a feeling the Ravens like Devin Duverne more than most people do, is your four. And it's like, that's fine. If that's like your worst position or one of your worst positions, you're fine. Justin's very excited about Devin Duverne. Hook him, baby. Devin Devin Devinne was the Texas Longhorn's best receiver when he was there. And then he kind of just disappeared into a gadget player when he got to the league.

I just realized one of the reasons they traded Brown, I bet, is some faith in Duverne. Because to me, they're very similar players, Duvonne and Marquise Brown. I bet you could replace 70% of Marquise Brown with Devin. Yeah, it's also, it is notable to me that there are so-called number one wideout wanted out of a team that has Super Bowl aspirations. Like, there is something about the system that for free agents, it's like, no, that's not, I like, I like the idea of Lamar Jackson and the Ravens in general probably from a player angle, but like as a wide out, you're going to go there and you're going to see your

numbers drop. Right. Markies Brown supposedly asked for a trade after his second year when they, you know, when they were great. He was mouthing off all the time, like how upset he was. So it's like, it's not a great fit for some of these whiteouts at all. But here's the reality. You're right. It probably hurts your earning potential a little bit.

But it's kind of like if you were, let's say Justin Jefferson, like we would know you were Justin Jefferson. You know what I mean? Like if Marquise Brown was as good as some of the first round and second round receivers like A.J. Brown and stuff, like we wouldn't know. He's not quite as good. So Justin Jefferson is like truly special. But I think for the kind of guys they have on the,

roster right now. It's just a little, it's one team that stands out as a bit of an unrewarding landing spot for that position. It's like, you know, it's like, it's like, I said in the social network, like if you invented Facebook, you would have invented Facebook. Markese Brown in this situation is the VinkleVos. I wish I had done that, but I wish I did too. Time for news and notes presented by Upwork where you can build the team that will build your business. Learn more at upwork.com. Another weird item in the news. The schedule release has been just like sprinkling out little crumbs all week. We're a big schedule release guys, Mark.

So is Dan. The three of us are part of the schedule release Bonanza on NFL Network. I believe this is the first ever NFL Network program in which Rich Eisen and like Michael Irvin are on the show. and we are also on the show, pinch yourself. I am pinching myself. They were, I think they were so enamored that they asked to use about two minutes and 54 seconds of our commentary.

That's absolutely fine. I know, you know, we've talked with Rich. He's been on our show. We saw him a couple weeks ago at the draft. I'm not certain anyone else on that show knows who we are. So we'll be more their surprise than anyone else's. It does make me feel uncomfortable to think that they'll be sitting with their earpaces in

and during one of their, breaks. Maybe they'll go get food, actually. That would be good. They take a little break, get some coffee or whatever during the break, that they'll be listening to us like Hamana, how'm gonna, about the international series games, which we taped last week. But we learned more news this week, which is that

there's going to be a week two double header, Monday night football, where at 715, you get Bill's Titans on ESPN, and then 8.30, this is different. On ABC, you get Eagles, Vikings. So both games will be playing at the same time at one point, which is strange to me.

And yet, kind of fun. What do you feel about that? I have mixed feelings because I think that the concept of doubleheaders, I love it. I think it's kind of great. And I'm definitely like primetime games, the way that we do our job, much more than like when you're watching three games at the same time on a Sunday, which sometimes from my brain, it just does not. I stop doing it.

You like to have famously the 8 Windows. take little notes about things I see and it's helpful to a degree. I always feel like I know less than the average fan leaving on Sundays because I just watch like the four games I'm going to watch and I just kind of ignore the rest because it's too hard to know everything. We have different processes, I guess, on that front. But I think it's interesting from like an A.J. Brown perspective that we get his new team and the team that moved on from him.

I have no idea where we'll be with Malik Willis by the time we get to week two. Everyone's like, oh, you probably won't start until week 14. It's like this stuff sometimes hasten so quickly, right? He's definitely not starting in a week two. I'm not saying starting a week two, but that could be where if they got wallet by the Bills, that you get that reaction to Ryan Tannahill on Twitter and everything. The Titans fan base will probably be calling for it way before it happens.

I don't like how they did the Titans Bills game here. What do you think? I agree. It's like, first of all, it's a bigger game, in my opinion. It's two teams that compete for the top of the AFC versus two teams that are going to be trying to make the playoffs, I feel like, in Minnesota and Philadelphia. You might be overrating your Titans, but, Okay.

Coming off the one season. I would actually take the Eagles over under, over the Titans right now. We don't know what the Titans are entirely right now. If I'm power ranking those four teams, I'm going one by a mile bills, two Eagles, pretty close behind Titans. Yes, the Titans consistently doubted. That's okay. They like to be the underdogs. But it's kind of a shot because you said it.

That was one of the best games of the year last year, Titans Bills. We had to make a list of our 10 best games of the year. threw that one in there, even though everyone had forgotten about it by then, like, amazing comeback. It was Monday Night Football. I had a little bit of everything. And yeah, and they're kind of treating them, because look, it's on cable. It's on ESPN. The network game are the bigger markets, which I guess is Philadelphia, but it's like, does that really matter at this point? Don't more people want to watch Josh Allen at this point than anyone in Philadelphia, Minnesota? And Derek Henry, for that matter. But in today's world, everyone's going to have access to

both games and watch whatever they please. So it's not that big of a concern. No, I don't mind. Two games at once is fine. You can have both of them on. We'll probably have a special around the NFL podcast show that night. So it's, I'm sure we will. It's extra work for you.

Which I, again, I like this lineup. I'm excited for it. And it gets closer to the idea that I had. I think I presented it in about 2014 on this show of two games a day every day for the whole NFL season. That's total chaos. You'd have, I have to do the mat. Also, you need to be a team that played every Tuesday. Like, you can't be a team that played Tuesday.

Then you're, you don't care. Well, that's the problem. You don't care about that. Some people do care about that. That would be a totally, like, it would totally change how football is experienced. That was an idea I had, though, when I only had one kid, my daughter, Ellis, and she was still young. Now that I'm older, I don't, now I want those days. It's just like you living alone in an apartment kind of scenario.

Yeah, but two games. a day. Like, I wouldn't get sick of it. I think it would be absolutely fine. The other game that was announced was Rams Broncos on Christmas Day. This is going to be a wild Christmas weekend. We'll have a full slate of games on Christmas Eve, which will be a Saturday. And then we have three games on Christmas. So say goodbye to your family. Daddy's not coming home, Rams Broncos, maybe I might have to see if I can go to that game. Well, that's the thing. I could see us somehow, you know, at the game because it's right here at our workplace. So that feels like maybe, I mean, the NFL, you know, I appreciate

what they're doing here, which is a total takeover of planet Earth, and certainly wiping out, nukeing every other sport on the landscape. Because this used to be the gentleman's respect between the NFL, which would have dot little Christmas games here and there. The NBA, Day's day. Who cares about that at this point? Christmas Day, NBA regular season action. I'm not saying that fans don't. People will. It's still a big NBA day. The NFL is saying they don't care about anything else in the environment. They used to. The ratings for the NFL network game that they had on Christmas, which was what, or I don't know, was that a network game. It was Brown's Packers last year. It was the most watch game of the year. It was the most watch game of the year. That's the thing. Thanksgiving and Christmas Day games, are the most watch games of the year.

So it is not a huge surprise to me that they're doing this. But three is a lot. It also just happens to be the year that Christmas falls on a Sunday. I don't think they'll go three every year. But, man, that's a lot. I think to avoid that overtaking my day, yeah, I think I'm going to, maybe I'll surprise them, but I think I'm going to ask Emiko what she thinks about going to the game. That's kind of fun.

That's only going to happen one time. Sure. I mean, we're Jewish. We do the Christmas thing, though. You double dip. We don't do Hanukkah. We just do gifts on the 25th. There's just no religious aspect to it.

I respect your approach. It's an unusual one. I mean, you've got to do something. It's how I grew up. That's it for schedule release talk. Today we'll have more on Thursday. That was News and Notes presented by Upwork, the world's work marketplace. Learn more at upwork.com.

Finally, in the news, an unfortunate story in Las Vegas this week. where the Raiders team president, or as Mark Davis, their owner will point out, well, he was only the interim team president. He wasn't actually the team president. He was the team president only for eight months. Who cares? He was there for 18 years. He knows what's going on there.

Team president for a little less than a year is accusing Mark Davis in a statement of firing him in retaliation for bringing concerns by multiple Raiders employees about a hostile workplace and the hostile conditions specifically towards women. And he believes that he was fired in retaliation for that. It's really serious. It comes on the heels of a few other mysterious Raiders executives that were cleaned out last year. There's been a lot of them.

It's just a lot of stuff that we don't know what's going on. And in those, there's been some reporting that there was financial. potential misdeeds being done by those employees. This, to me, is a lot more serious because the NFL is now getting involved. They say they recently became aware of the allegations and they are looking into it. Add another team and another ownership group to the list that the NFL is investigating right now. I mean, this has been a pretty wild offseason on that front. And this employee, you're right, he was there for 18 years.

It's a classic whistleblower move. and he basically, I think, he put his own employment, his own life on the line, I mean, professional life, to do what he thought was right here. So we'll see what they do. Right. I really, I respect what he did, and I respect him laying out the reasons for it. And look, it sounds like he knew maybe where this was going throughout. I think there's a lot of documentation. He felt that Mark Davis specifically, like he put it out there, We're just repeating what his statements are that Mark Davis, the owner specifically created a hostile place for women, did not treat women, right? And the NFL's, like, got a problem.

Like, society has a problem and the NFL is just part of society, but I mean specifically the owners that are running the league right now have a problem. Jerry Jones has a problem. Dan Snyder has a problem. Mark Davis has a problem. Like, these are some of the most vocal and integral owners in the league. have really active parts of the league, have recently gotten stadiums built in the case of Mark Davis and Jerry Jones.

And like the NFL's got to fix this stuff. Like Roger Goodell and everyone that's in this office and it's very tricky to be investigating an owner when the owner is technically the boss of Roger Goodell. But I just want to like see the league we work for actually display a level of seriousness when it comes to these allegations. Obviously, the Deshawn Watson story is different, but it's sort of of a same piece.

And when your owners are acting like this, it's your problem. You have to do something about it. It's the structurally the NFL needs to change. And you want it to be taken seriously, like you said. And I look at what happened with the Jerry Jones thing up till now. That's not taken seriously. I think the league would rather things like this go away. And, you know, each, all 32 teams are so different.

and the Raiders stand out as a family-run operation, obviously. But sometimes that's where some of this stuff can happen in Fester, where there's less of a committee and more of like a king or an emperor running the show. Right. I mean, this comes on the heels of John Gruden and his email scandal. And I don't know if that's going to be involved. Just in the last year alone, the Raiders have seen Department of Chief Financial Officer Edville and Nueva, senior vice president of strategy and business, Brandon Dull, controller, Aerexie Grant,

and another Jeremy Aguio, the chief operations in analytics officer, all resigned or kicked out, fired in the last year alone, which is just like, what does that tell you? Crazy year for the Raiders as they're getting excited for the on-field product, the off-field products, got a lot to worry about. Let's get to something a little more fun to talk about.

That's going to be Connor or, but first we'll take a little break. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that?

Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development

to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects, to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day.

Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a die-hard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. get your podcasts. Our next guest is a very special guest. He's a former employee of NFL media, a writer for the Around the NFL blog. He's a man of mystery, a man that's full of surprises in terms of his takes, his interests.

You never really know where he's coming from. from You Now It Works for S.I.com, and he's a cover storywriter. It's Connor Orr. What's up, everybody? There he is. It's great to have you back, buddy. How are you? We're good.

I mean, even though I, like, had to stop our pre-show conversation because the fact that you think Frozen 2 is a great movie just sort of stopped me in my tracks. And I thought, like, what are we talking about? What are your reasons? I mean, Frozen, it's a good Disney movie. movie frozen too it's like they were trying to be deep about like global warming or anything but it's like trying to be deep as if it was written by a seven year old i mean it got it the movie

i was so deep on reddit about this uh recently the movie is so incredibly like entrenched in in colonialism right right they they did not they didn't finish the job right and that that would be my only complaint, right? Like, Arondale should not exist. Arindale should have been taken out by the wave and the people of Northunderla in the forest should have been able to

reclaim the land and destroy Arindale. So that would be my only complaint. Otherwise, like, the music is unbelievable. Adina's voice has never sounded better. And I just think some of the songs are really powerful. And

I'm enjoying the frozen. stage right now. I have kids who watch it, but I would say, like, there are like several Frozen 2 songs from the soundtrack on my running playlist. I've got to say that there's nothing more Conor-esque than the fact that you're on like deep, dark, subreddit boards about Frozen 2. Well, the whole time I'm sitting there and I'm like, well, I wonder what that song's really about, but it is like any Disney movie. It's about what it says it's trying to be about. But like the whole thing with the colonialism, that's where they got me. Like, if you're going to, you can't try to be deep and then get only halfway there, it was,

it felt to me like it was trying to be a message movie that really didn't make any sense. I mean, Connor, this is why Greg was not the third limb in the heat and light podcast, because I, your mind is going to take it somewhere totally different. Right. And I, and that's why my, my daughter doesn't love me. And it's because I bring up these things. Feels after watching the movie. Let me, I'll put, I'll put a bow in the argument with this, right? I finished Ozarks yesterday last night, and I'm not going to spoil the ending for anybody

who hasn't seen it yet, but frozen, it's like, okay, you put a bow on it, you walk away feeling generally okay, whereas the Ozarks is, it falls in line with our common theme of all premium television and movies now, where it's just like you walk away with the sense that, like, everything sucks and only, like, evil people are powerful and rule your life. And it's like, okay, I get it, you know, I'm, you know, I know. You're a Disney guy. You're a Disney guy that likes a little half-bake storyline about reparations mixed in. I don't need your half-bake reparation storyline.

You executed it terribly. I'm stupid. I am stupid. Let's talk about stupid potential plotline. for the 2020 season. That's the wrong way to introduce us, because I don't think this is stupid at all. I'm really excited about this segment.

You guys had a podcast, Connor. You and Mark, back in the day, and Mark, maybe you can explain it to me and how it relates to this episode. But what I took from it was you guys look beneath the surface of certain stories that people accepted a surface answer, whether it was darkness in the world or conspiracies. and you went below that.

And I think that's what we're going to try to do with some NFL stories here. I think there's territory to do that with NFL stories. I mean, Connor and I, when he would be in Los Angeles or just over our direct messaging client, we'd just naturally talk about this stuff. And the more you get to know, Connor, he'll then send you like an explosive 22-page

articlely found on said topic. But we would go, I'll give you an example. I think one of our first episodes ever, I had to convince our NFL editors. This was not when you were in charge, Greg, of myself. That was someone else. And Connor also was working a shift. We both got out of a shift for like two hours so that I could go into an office while you were in New Jersey.

And we recorded a long episode about the fact that there may be two Paul McCartney's. That the real, that the Paul McCartney that you knew early, early on, at some point there was a shift. and that human being was replaced and you can go listen to the episode, which does not available anymore. I bet people could find it somewhere. Possibly. And if you're a big fan of the show, if you're the type of fan that's on the Reddit board or leaves us messages, leaves us comments and reviews on iTunes, people should do that, by the way.

We haven't asked for a while. Then maybe you are the type of person that can find us these episodes and somehow send it to us. That's possible. You can contact Justin Graver at Titans Film Room on Twitter. DM him about it and let us know. But it's amazing because you just wrote a story that fits perfectly into this idea for a segment, Connor. You wrote about the NFL's investigation into the Browns and Hugh Jackson's allegations that they weren't trying to win five years ago that they were tanking. And what you uncovered was, frankly, a lot more interesting than

anything I expected to come from this Hugh Jackson story. I have to admit, I didn't read it until today, and I'm like, how are not more people talking about this? I guess I can explain to the listeners that haven't heard it, just like what this story was and how it all fits in. What's interesting, right? Because I went on like a Cleveland area radio station the other day to talk about the story. And they just said, hey, Connor is here. Hugh Jackson's a loser. What's your problem?

And then it's like, well, yeah, Hugh Jackson won three games. And I think that that obscures three games and whatever. it was, two and a half years. And I think that that obscures the general point here, which is that he had a deal with the Browns, an addendum to his contract that wasn't submitted to the league, that it financially incentivized him to have an increased number of early round draft picks and to carry over salary cap space, among other things. And so our argument is, I don't know what happened. Like the Browns could have been bad because he, Jackson's a bad coach.

The Browns could have been bad because they were trying to lose. I don't know. But it's incredibly weird and unorthodox to financially incentivize a coach to get more early draft picks and to carry over cap space because there's really only one way to do that. And you have the plan all written out. That's the part where I'm like, how is more people not talking about this? I definitely want to send it out that you have the contract details. You just mentioned some of them.

Another one was finishing top 10 and win probability added on fourth down, which I just found interesting that they were incentivizing him to be analytic, analytically minded in terms of his coaching. But yeah, they were giving him extra money, Mark, to basically get high draft picks and have young players. And I don't think that's necessarily wrong. I just find it very interesting to see the four-year plan, which Connor did the reporting on, all written out like that.

I think like, Connor, the way you, the way you describe. contract stuff. It turns people off maybe in general because it's complex. It's in the weeds. You added a lot of clarity to that, and I think it does raise questions. I also, looking back on that time, like, I don't, the Hugh Jackson, because it's coming from him, doesn't

totally discredit the whole thing. You're right about that. And that's a probably more local reaction to that. But the Browns were pretty out front about the fact that with Sashi Brown and the rest of that front office, that we are taking a different approach. We're the team that's going to take on Brock Osweiler's massive

contract just to do something that other NFL teams aren't doing. And it was a little bit of a different period back then. And so I don't know if it was like this hidden tank job necessarily. They had a terrible talent. They had no answers at quarterback. And they were looking to accrue and reshift, change the whole franchise through the draft picks. But then the contract, which they were not out front about. And if they didn't send it to the league, adds all sorts of questions. So it's super murky. it is and you know it's interesting to me is I think and I wrote a follow up to this that included some additional reporting that like you know Hugh was one of the only coaches I think that we've found and we surveyed a lot of people who have done coaching contracts around the league who were actually paid you know or offered to be paid for a certain win total which I thought was really interesting and doesn't necessarily happen like in a lot of coaches contracts it'll just be like you get extra money if you make the playoffs not like you've get extra money if you win three games. You know what I mean?

And so I thought that was kind of interesting. But I think what it does, and I think the convenience, and you talk about conspiracy, you know, I don't know, whatever it is, but the timing of the fact that you can establish basically what your basement level expectations are of being competitive with the Brian Flores investigation looming, I think is interesting and just kind of worth considering, right? Because with Hugh Jackson, what the NFL is saying is, no, no, they were trying to win because in Hugh Jackson's second year, they signed, you know, Kevin Zeitler, right? And so even though they were in bottom two of cap spending each of those first two years, what they basically did was establish a structure where it can be like, okay, as long as you're kind of here and you can show us some glimmer of reasonable expectation of competition, then. we're not going to come down in you for tanking.

And I think that the Browns, it'll kind of be the Browns line going forward, right? Where it's like, as long as you don't do it any harder than this, I think you're going to be okay. Doesn't the NFL want to allow other teams to do something similar? Doesn't the NFL want to do it, you said? I was thinking that if you're going to allow,

if you're going to open up, if you're not going to look at the Brown situation other than through a certain lens as the league, you're allowing other teams to go to the tank method. Which we've seen multiple teams do. To be clear, the NFL looked at all of this and said there was absolutely nothing against the rules going on here. And I don't necessarily disagree with that. I just find it interesting to see all this stuff written down on paper.

So yeah, I think they're basically saying like the Giants, I think, are a good example this year. That's a team strategy that you're essentially spending less money in the short term. The Giants are like we talked about James Bradbury earlier. They could have kept them if they wanted to. They could have moved money around. but they don't want to. They don't want to spend money this year because they have a long-term build. It's just kind of crazy to look at it all written down on paper that the coach is literally making extra money if the team spends less money, which is what is exactly written

down here. If they rank in the bottom quarter of cash spent, the coach for some reason gets extra money. Yeah. I think in the end, and what I wrote in the follow-up column, And I think what I hope everyone takes away from it, right, is you have to have, now that the NFL is blessed this and said it's okay, I think as a player agent or a player, you have to know that this exists. And if you're signing anywhere as a free agent, you have to be able to find out if your coach has pick a cruel bonus in his contract or any sort of, any sort of incentivization for cash spend or cap spend. because that affects your future career, right? Like, you know, so you have to know that going forward. And so whether that means we're more transparent about coaching contracts, which are basically unseeable.

You know, you can Google players contract in two minutes, but you can't find any coaching contract or salary information. Forbes always lists like the top 10 highest paid coaches, and it's always Belichick one or two. And they just put a number on there. And they're just like, oh, we're just guessing. We're a publication, but we're just guessing. going to put him number one, but we have no earthly idea. I'm with you. I would love that.

And I think that the point you make is absolutely right. And players should push for that, but I have a hard time imagining anything. I don't see that happening at all. Because then you're also asking the player not to share that information if things go sour down the road. I love this story. Everyone should check it out. Connor or on Sports Illustrated.com. You can find it from his Twitter account and everything. Do you have something that would have been a good heat and light episode mark if it was a little more full? football-oriented. Yes, it's far less trenchant than what we've just been discussing. I'll start right there. It's sort of stupid.

But if this occurred, I think you'd have people that said, this isn't a big deal. This just happened the way it happened. Then you'd have other people saying something about this doesn't fly. You'd be in the second group of people. Well, I think in the spirit of heat and light, like Connor and I think would both probably be in that. And you might too. We'll see. But here's how it goes.

I'll read it to you. This is what I'm saying I'm projecting to have. happen between now and the Super Bowl. There will be a moment between now and said Super Bowl where NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is advertised to the public as a heroic figure after saving a civilian from a life-threatening event. All right? Full disclosure. Suspicion will bubble up that the entire thing is a false flag. People like Connor and Mark will have their doubts. Mark will come, you know, compliantly say nothing due to his employment status. But also Goodell earns points for refusing to discuss the event, kind of treating it like something any sort

of salt of the earth cowboy would do any day of the week. So you could argue he's not bubbling it up. But just to just it, what will it look like? Look for the event to take the form of Rog saving said civilian from, for example, I'm going to give you a couple items of how this may shape because we've seen these things in the past from a PR angle with actors, directors, people that are in trouble. Suddenly something heroic happens. What? Maybe a car fire. I mean, is Goodell in trouble right now? I feel like he's doing pretty well. It's a bit of an image makeover. I mean, I'm just saying he's sort of the first person that came to mind.

Maybe he says or saves the civilian from a car fire by the side of the highway or a potential drowning in shark flush waters or from an animal attack in the forest or from a tornado, which nobody researches enough to realize no weather event actually occurred in the place they said it did. From an armed robber, from land pirates, from a gang of rowdy youths with wood. clubs from a trashy woman on bath salts from potential poisoning roger drinks the poison instead and lives from a poltergeist of some variety again impossible to prove he didn't stop a poltergeist from demon possession from an envelope filled with a nefarious white powder rog just opens up the envelope and imbibes said white powder and lives etc etc it's going to take the form of one of those things they'll be people that say oh that's so wonderful what a nice story and others that say wait a minute there's a deeper story here we got to cut that for social you know definitely we need

definitely want that out there just like an at NFL commission on Twitter and put that out there absolutely noted Randy is on it we will have that clip on Instagram graver last one week as producer of the round NFL podcast that would be a great episode I would love I would love to listen to Connor talk about that you and Connor the it was funny because I was thinking in my mind I know, it's like, oh, God, if people unearth heat and light, what are they going to find? Because, you know, I don't remember what I said, you know, eight years ago before I had kids and cared about anything, really. Nor do I. Yeah.

But I think there was an episode that we did on. There's no way it was wilder than that. So you're covered. No. No, we did an episode on pyramids as an energy source. And I think we accused J.P. Morgan of centralizing electricity. At some point JP Morgan

took some friendly fire or fire just fire in that episode I could see your your vision happening there's no sandwich on the line here you know it kind of feels like a sandwich prop I could see Roger Goodell from what I know about him

doing that you know I don't know if he needs like a huge image makeover right now I feel like he was getting beat up more publicly in the past but certainly he has some owners going wild right now that we talked about earlier and that's bad for the NFL and maybe maybe this will give him sort of the the juice the PR juice almost to do that part of his unpleasant part of his job a little more easily every you know I'm not just saying this because

we we keep it real here on the around the NFL podcast like everyone says who nice things about Roger Goodell who actually know like behind the scenes are I was oh yeah he's such a nice guy he always did this or that for me. You never hear anyone actually say anything bad behind the scenes, which usually a pretty good sign because we hear a lot of people say a lot of bad things behind the scenes about a lot of powerful people. So I think it makes sense that this would happen.

Yeah, I'm with you. I don't think that he appears to be a villain on any level when we hung out with him. But from a national perspective, he could use a little bit of PR. Sure, sure. And if you remember, in the pages of Sports Illustrated, written by my old boss Peter King, there was the seminal Roger Goodell profile that had an anecdote from back in his college days where I believe he broke up a violent bar fight.

Okay. See, there we go. There we go. We're set in the groundwork. All right. My story, which I think could be something that the two of you would dive into, it's not as mystical. It's a little more like Ozark, where it's just like an open-ended question, maybe a little more like Twitter. Peaks. And that is about the dark energy around the Minnesota Vikings. And different teams have different energy around them. And I think what the Vikings energy that's around them right now is that they will never change. They are just always the Vikings, the exact same team as they were year before. Like literally, if you look at their offense, it's Kirk Cousins, Dalvin Cook, KJ Oswer, Adam Thieland, Justin Jefferson, mostly the same offensive line, a lot of the same defensive beat. Yes, they changed out the coach and the GM, but like, that's not enough

because ultimately what is pulling both sides of the Vikings fans' experience is this unforgiving sameness that you finish with eight or nine wins, and it's ultimately disappointing. And there's a point in the season where it seems like they have your hopes up, but all their fans kind of know that it won't happen. And they're almost potentially stuck in this cosmic energy loop where whatever happens around that team, you can shake up the coach and the GM. It doesn't really matter.

They're just stuck energy-wise in the middle. I dig it because it kind of feels like a house that is haunted. Yes. Where the spirit doesn't change. They're trapped in something dark and negative themselves. That's why they are where they are. And like even their dark energy is boring. Right.

Like it's a boring dark energy. The Vikings seem no matter what they do, they do seem similar to me. Year after year when we do this show, Connor. It's, you know what it is? It's like it could be this like private obsession of owner Ziggy Wilf for like he, he goes into the stadium on game day in disguise and he's looking around and he just and he just loves the idea. of like a person never reaching a certain level of happiness. You know, he just, you know, he just watches, watches people,

watch Delvin Cook slam into the line for like a two-yard gain on an ISO handoff and then, and then know that that person was like really hoping this would be a moment where he could connect with his son and see an incredible play. But instead, like, it's just play after play of Delvin Cook ramming into the line for two yards. And like Ziggy Wilf just loves this idea of, complete and utter like unfeelingness like mediocrity like yeah that makes him very uh ungenerous of spirit a certain sort of um and not even ambivalence antipathy towards the human race that he wants maybe he wants them to feel not to psychoanalyze here in this scenario but like to feel how he

feels um and just feel very middle of the road i feel like his brother mark wilf got off um with the better scenario here. This is, this is why I need you, like, guys, to help me out with this exercise, because mine still sort of went back to, like, what is the Viking standing's going to finish? But you guys helped me. I think it'd be a good episode. What's one for you, Connor? So I have here, and with the Tom Brady News today, interesting sort of,

interesting sort of connection here on the broadcaster front. But at some point in the next few months, there will be a credible discovery of a John Madden lookalike in the Panamanian village of La Chorera outside of a Bonco General that touches off a massive league-wide conspiracy about the legitimacy of his death. So is John Madden really dead. I mean, this is fantastic. So it's not like a clone. It's like he's just getting older and older, but he's hidden out in this other area of the earth. outside of a Banco General in La Chorera, which is in Panama. And, you know, he just had to escape the hustle and bustle of the NFL.

But something inside of me believes that he longs to return to call big NFL games, especially now. I believe he would top the 35 million year that Tom Brady just got to. Mark's face just lit up, especially with your pronunciation of the place in Panama. He just was so happy. I love to see you two together because Carter and Mark, you guys just make each other happy. Nothing wrong with that. We do, especially when we were at the cozy making each other happy.

I love that too. I think Madden always would talk about the bus talking to each other at the Hall of Fame. And he believed in mysticism, I believe, like, that they are never to. I don't really believe Al Davis is dead. Like, I don't think Mark Davis got that stadium built. So I feel like maybe they're together. They always remain close. It feels very possible.

I took a virtual tour through La Chorera during research for this show. And it seems lovely. It seems very nice. All right. We'll do a quick speed round. We're going to have to go shortly. But my just speed round one is just going to be kind of an investigation into what it's like to play with Aaron Rogers. I just feel like that would be a good episode.

and why Devante Adams left. Aaron Rogers said he was the man who was the reason why people came to play in Green Bay, and now you look at their team, and the only person that came back to play there is Randall Copp. Like Odell Beckham, that would be a nice place to go play. Aaron Rogers, you talked about your ability to bring people in and attract them.

Go get Aldo Beckham. You could absolutely use him right now, and they have the cab space to do it. And so I think that would be a good episode, just sort of looking into that, that's beyond uh totally like i think there's a lot there that um is yet to be uncovered my mind is this is a more sort of footbally uh i think that we are months away from a sizzling report in which

it's revealed i mean i think we already feel this way to some degree but with real facts and and dangerous items and bullet points that the nineers are quietly in turmoil because karl shanahan simply doesn't believe that tray lance can do it and all this business that's been going on for the jimmy g last season everything is a fractured scenario inside a team that has super bowl dreams love that in the sense that it's history repeating mike shanahan and his general manager in front office says that was his downfall they always started clashing it was like palace intrigue i could see that happening what's your last speed round one connor okay uh chargers receiver josh palmer stuns the NFL in a few weeks with an early retirement

opting to focus on his true passion of creating a rechargeable battery for home gardening equipment that lessens our reliance on foreign raw materials. And this creates thousands of jobs in the process and pulls away dozens of his teammates with the promises of long-term employment, pensions, you know, all this great stuff. In the NFL basically becomes a massive networking ground for American Mind Essential Materials business. So it's players want to get into the NFL so that they can jump into American Mind materials and not to stay in the NFL. That is going to kill because of Josh Palmer. That's going to kill the Chargers in the AFC West there.

That's a tough division. Like Rashad Slater and Zion Johnson are like, oh yeah, we're going with Josh. And suddenly raw products. Yeah, no offensive line help whatsoever. Well, based on the reaction of the group that I'm watching behind the glass, that was that idea was a winner. You delighted them. They were laughing. They were smiling.

They were like children again after Mark and I totally bored them talking about football for news. Most of the people behind the glass are children still. Well, yeah, you guys are in your 20s. To us, to us, your children. But we're the type we have children. Connor does. He's wearing a less need, F them picks, sweatshirt right now. I love it.

Connor, as Dan would say, you've said it all. What a delight to see you again. And I feel like it's like Dan's away and we got away with this episode or something degree. I think he would have totally enjoyed it and I'm sure he'll be listening. Who knows? Maybe he's in Panama, wherever that was. See you later, Connor. Bye, buddy.

Thanks for having me. Yeah. What a show. Big week. Big show. That was great. And we're going to have a great show on Thursday, Mark, schedule, release, spectacular. It was always Wes's least favorite tent poll event by the NFL, but I think we're going to make the most of it.

That's absolutely true. He hated it. He hated making a big deal of it. He hated writing about it. And Dan, you know, I don't know if it was intentional that he set up his anniversary on a day where they would eventually do the schedule release show like 15 years later. Probably not. I don't think so. Since it's moved around, actually, over the years. It's now much later than it used to be. But he happens to be gone. But we do have some special guests. Rachel Bonetta is going to be joining us on the show. We hope to get Patrick Claibon in here as well for part of it. And so that'll be fun.

We will release it as a podcast. Hopefully right when the schedule is released at 8 p.m. Eastern time, 5 p.m. Pacific. We're not allowed to release it any earlier than that. I think this is probably the sixth, seventh, eighth time we've done this. We'll have to find out Graver. Go find out what annual episode this is between now and Thursday. On it.

Okay. that's it. You don't have anything more. No, a lot of legwork for Graver, though. He's doing a great job. Yeah, for the late John Madden, or maybe not the late John Madden. Justin Graver, Conor, Mark Sessler. We'll see you on Thursday. Heatha Call.

Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective

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