NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - New Horizons Monday

Episode Date: January 1, 2019

In a room filled with heroes – Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Chris Wesseling – react to New Horizons Monday, analyzing the comings and goings of NFL skippers, including – Marvin Lewis and the Bengals parting ways after 16 seasons, and is Hue Jackson the answer in Cincy (2:10), Miami cutting ties with Adam Gase (8:10), the Cardinals giving Steve Wilks the pink slip after one season (12:00), Denver flashing interest in trading for John Harbaugh (15:00), who would be the best mentor for S-Darn (20:00), Tampa terminates Koetter, but he may already have a landing spot (23:45), Oakland opens its doors to Mike Mayock as their GM (27:20) and is Cleveland the ultimate destination for coaching candidates (31:15)? Lastly, NFLN’s Mike Garafolo joins the heroes (36:50) to converse about Nick Foles and Cleveland’s head coach vacancy (42:45)!Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast will get you out of shady business deals. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast, a special edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hans, as I'm joined in a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. And, well, we talked about it on Sunday show.

and check out the Week 17 recap that we rolled out late last night for the latest in the NFL in terms of the games. But what we're talking about today is, listen, internally it's been told, stay away from Black Monday. Don't use the term. It's a little bit of sensitive issue. You just said it. Oh, that's right. But even I mentioned that this is a special episode. Mark, you told me on Sunday show, special maybe not the word to use in this circumstance.

I corrected you. My dog, Mark would have. see so let me just you know say we and we coined this on our Twitter show which you could also check out a lot of content but this is not our black Monday podcast Greg it is our new horizons podcast new horizons Monday feels like I'm being sent away against that one is actually a new a new podcast that we're starting called the new horizon podcast we need another revenue stream more advertisers and we're going to going to explore the mind and the body. So, yes, this is something of a mini pod or we seek to have it be a little shorter than a typical pod. But what we're going to do is spin through each of the teams that are involved with comings and goings in the big chair and talk about what's the latest as of Monday mid

afternoon here on the West Coast. Also, at the end of the show, we will throw it to a good back and forth conversation we had with NFL networks, Mike Garifold. on our Twitter show when we talked about some teams, some vacancies, a little talk about Nick Foles. He's at the Eagles facility, Mike. So that will come up a little later in the show. But let's get to it. Let's dig in right now and start with the news that West, we thought really would never come because of the way the organization operates. And frankly, the reports ahead of time that the Bengals were leaving it up to Marvin Lewis.

whether he wanted to return for, what is it, a... Well, Marvin Lewis is an idiot. 17th season. Was that what it would have been? That was what was out there. And then I woke up this morning, and there it is. Marvin Lewis and the Bengals decide mutually to move on once and for all after 16 years. No playoff wins.

A conscious uncoupling, you could call it, Mark Zessler. Minus Apple. Minus Apple. Wes, Marvin Lewis and the Cincinnati Bengals once and finally, no more. Well, as Solomon Wilcox once told you for your pain rankings article, Marvin Lewis raised the Titanic in Cincinnati. I think newer football fans would not believe how sunk this Bengals franchise was before Marvin Lewis arrived. The previous coaches under Mike Brown from 1991 to 2003 had a winning percentage of 270. That is almost unprecedented, maybe unprecedented.

It's not even a good batting average in baseball. This organization is sort of a vanishing breed as a family run operation in a business that hopes to be raking in $25 billion annually by 2007. This is unique to the Bengals. No one knows their organizational structure. You can't say that about any of the other 31 teams in the NFL. No one really knows who's calling the shots and what shots are being called and what sort of the flow chart is there.

And I think that's one of the reasons why Marvin Lewis stuck around for so long. He had a lot of influence in the draft room, a lot more than most coaches do. And I think that that organization has not been confident they could find an upgrade on Marvin Lewis. Well, he rebuilt them. It was one of the great rebuilding jobs of the last decade. And it's unfortunate they couldn't get over the hump to just win one playoff game to get that off their back. because I love those mid-2000s Bengals teams. They were fun to watch.

And what you talked about with the organization, Bengals fans, I know, have a complicated relationship with Marvin Lewis, and it definitely went on too long. But what he did was make Mike Brown, their owner, start to modernize. They basically didn't have a scouting department. They didn't have a personnel department. Like, he made them start hiring as part of even staying with the job back in 2011. He made them say, hey, we got to update.

We need a scouting department. We need to do this and that. And I think he did a good job. He was there too long. but if you kind of like look at what he accomplished compared to what the other five coaches who lost their jobs in the last two days accomplished, it's like there's no comparison

and it's almost a bit of a shame that I think he's been used as a punchline over the last few years, including by us. Well, I'll admit it. You think? That's all well and good, but I also feel like he's someone that was given a endless string of rope

to not achieve nearly as much as you would want someone. Last three years, I agree. If you were a Bengals fan back in 2003 and said, we've just hired Marvin Lewis, and here's the good news, he's going to do enough to stick around for 16 years. You would have to think, not only are we going to win a playoff game or two, but you're probably going to get a Super Bowl appearance in there because coaches don't stick around that long, but this is a different team, to Wes's point, and they're

perfectly willing and capable and patient enough to a fault to stick around with Andy Dalton when other teams are urgently looking to upgrade at the most important position there is. and they had one of the AFC's most talented rosters a couple seasons ago, and you still can't win a playoff game. I don't know what more Marvin Lewis needed to do to not have this job at this point. Here's a stat that neatly sums up your point. There are two coaches in NFL history to go 12 years without a Super Bowl appearance and not be fired. Marvin Lewis and Chuck Knoll.

And it happened for Chuck Knoll after he had that leeway of winning four Super Bowls. Marvin Lewis had the leeway of raising the Titanic. For what it's worth, Marvin Lewis in his press conference today endorsed Hugh Jackson as his replacement. Here's what Lewis had to say. I think he's more than qualified. I think he's been in a couple of difficult situations. And that's tough. And it hasn't broke his way.

But I think he's an excellent football coach. he's a great motivator and you know he's detailed and and so I think he you know he deserves an opportunity if not here somewhere else so Hugh Jackson if he got another job you wouldn't think he could get another job anywhere else but maybe Cincinnati is again West the one operation that runs itself so differently that Hugh Jackson impossibly gets another chance in the big chair you have asked me many times on this podcast if I feel sorry for Bengals fans if I take their feelings into consideration. I've never felt sorry for Bengals fans because I think they do it to themselves. If they hire Hugh Jackson, I will feel sorry for Bengals fans. The vibe, it doesn't seem

like they will. They're interviewing Darren Simmons, their special teams coordinator, Bill Laser, offensive coordinator. They've asked to interview Zach Taylor. Laser in the big chair. I don't know. Just the way that Marvin Lewis was talking about it, I think, I don't know if Mike Brown is as big a fan of Hugh Jackson as Marvin Lewis. I mean, can we spread a wider net than just simply the people already on the payroll? This is so bang. No, I want to see. He's going in there, Rams quarterback's coach.

Josh McDaniels, they requested. I can't imagine the job Josh McDaniels would want to take. Just hire Hugh. It's fun. Don't do it. Don't do it. I feel bad for the Cincinnati. I don't think Hugh Jackson has earned that, to be honest.

I mean, come on. The issue is not just the football acumen. It was the personal experience of Hugh Jackson, Cleveland. You don't have to sell it, Mark. Everyone knows there should be no reason. Hugh Jackson gets another head coaching job. It was a joke. you're free mark you're safe i still i'm still damaged

the miami dalpins also made a move on monday they fire adam gays here on bright horizons monday after three seasons new horizons i don't know if the coaches would agree with this title but bright horizons is the name of marvin lewis is reportedly looking into broadcasting maybe front office who knows those are new horizons for him um adam gays out after three years and the Dolphins for the fourth time this decade will look for a new head coach. The team also promoted GM Chris Greer to oversee the football operations. A tough day for friends of the around the NFL podcast. Mike Tanenbaum reassigned.

He had been the EVP of football operations. So Tanenbaum has been on our show. Adam Gase, who was on our show in March, both swept out in Miami. And Greg, I know you got takes on this. You think this is the worst job out there right now. because they've shown no long-term vision. They never replace everyone at once. They always keep one guy.

At one point, they kept their GM, then brought in Tannabaum above him, then fired the GM and brought in another fake GM, kept their coach. Fake GM. Chris Greer, when he was hired, did not have any decision-making. That was his title.

Yeah, it was fake GM. He had no decision-making power. FGM. And now he does, because he's won some political power struggle. Him and Serena Williams were co-fake GMs. Right. They, like, shared a little office with, like, two computers facing the opposite way towards the wall. Gloria Stephan was, like, the fake football operations head.

Venus, William. Hergie was an analytics. Little dot matrix printer. It was an intern. It's always these little internal battles that different people are fighting to try to keep their jobs. That's number one, so I don't have any faith the organization will make a good choice or that it's a good setup. And then number two, the roster's bad, that you're going to have to have all this dead money with Ryan Tannahill. And then what do you have?

You have Zavian Howard and Laramie Tunzel and not a good home crowd. It just, there's nothing really to like. I totally agree with you. Don't have the pick either. And I guess you could have viewed it as a bit of a coup d'etat when they got Adam Gase, who years ago, not long ago, was seen as the next great mastermind. They called him the next Don Shula to come to Miami. And now it's names like Eric Bienami and Mike Munchak and Vic Fangio that they're going to interview.

It's like, wait a minute, you just had this next big thing and you couldn't make it work. And this is, so all the people we're talking about today that get hired, all these bells and whistles and parades and draperies. They're all going to be gone two or three years later. Gase is getting a lot of love still. I mean, he's got relationships with the media and immediately. Some of them close to us. Sure, but immediately, it's a talk that he's going to interview

and the Browns is the most common jobs. Mark is scared to death. Wake me up. Hugh Jackson or Adam Gase. Adam Gase, it's a good upgrade ultimately. Over Hugh Jackson? Yes. That's not an extremely tough question.

Adam Gase is... Although at the time, you were pretty excited about Hugh Jackson. Of course I was. To case and point, who's the next guy we're all excited about? Talk to me 700 days from now. Mark, you're very intense right now. Well, I guess you know what? A big part of this is when you're in this thing

and we're watching NFL Network for 6 a.m. The sky is falling left and right all over the place. All of this is the biggest news ever. But the rate of these coaching hires suggests that the vast majority, when you hire 8, six or seven are to go totally south. It's kind of depressing. Well, which takes us to the Arizona Cardinals.

They make the decision, and this is something that we kind of knew was coming, but it's also now official. Steve Wilkes hired. He gets one year. He takes over a team. Remember what we talked about men. Man, I call you. Usually I call you boys.

Well, we've matured on this day. I mean, we've, 2019 now. We've either sired multiple children or overcome cancer. I think we deserve the title men. Kids have kids having kids. kids, Greg. Is this the most masculine podcast, Erica?

By far. Oh, yeah. All right. Anyway, Echo Chamber. So, no, what was I talking about? I'm so caught up with Steve Wilkes. Steve Wilkes, a man's career. When Steve Wilkes got hired, I remember we were all at the scouting combine in February,

and we all kind of had a conversation. I think we talked about it on this very pod that Steve Wilkes was the guy where you kind of felt a little sorry for him because a lot of these other teams, even John Gruden, who got a lot of attention to the combine, there was excitement around the team and the idea of a new horizon and a lot to build on potentially. And Wilkes, he never had that. And they do. And they went and they got Josh Rosen, which I thought was the right move at the time, but nothing really came of that, at least in his first year. And I just feel like Wilkes kind of got a raw deal here. I don't know if he was the guy or not the

guy, but he got written off by about eight games into the season. And these guys deserve more time to mature into the job. I don't think that's how you do business. fired Byron Lefich, who was the second offensive coordinator they had the season after firing Mike McCoy. And Byron Lefich was meant to be someone that they could build around and a young coach that they could grow. And the Cardinals are a good example of zero patience situation where why are we giving an NFL coach one year to take over a bad organization? Look, it was a hard-to-watch team. There wasn't a lot happening there. One of the coaches that wants to fit players into his scheme that is immovable and that is he's got to learn from that if you're Steve Wilkes

at the same time you never even got a chance to learn from I agree I just something about it seems very unfair I think you shouldn't be learning that's the job of a coordinator you should be you should know what you're doing when you're an NFL head coach when you get the it's your first shot I don't care what that's what the coordinator position is for I don't learn how to become a head coach president of the United States there's a learning curve to every job you work in and you if you are running a sub NFL level offense for 16 games which he's he was. When he said all offseason, everything we're going to do is based on the run and the offensive line. And he had one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. Do you want to hear from

your coach in 2019? Everything we're going to do is based on the run. One of the worst five offenses in the football outsider's era, according to their numbers. I think part of the factor here was Steve Kime, their GM, is very much on the hot seat, but is allowed to keep his job. And you just get the sense they're almost giving Kime one chance to take a mulligan because Wilkes wasn't his first choice by any means according to reports and like

whatever this new tandem is, Kime and the new coach is going to have a short show and real quick it's not a good look that Mike McCarthy's name was floated out there as the Cardinals being very interested and wanting to give him a lot of power to come in and have personnel power and Mike McCarthy from what we're hearing has no interest

in going there, not a good start. So here is the other way to look at it because I do I do think giving a coach one year is not good business. But Steve Vince Joseph in Denver, the Broncos had not had back-to-back losing seasons since the 1970s, early in the 1970s,

which is a remarkable achievement in any era, but especially in the salary cap era. Well, Joseph comes and they just can't get it together. And you remember there was a lot of whispers that Joseph was maybe a one and done candidate last year. They gave Joseph another season to get it going,

They gave him a better quarterback in Case Keenham. But Greg, ultimately, they just could not get anything going. And the way they ended the season, maybe just solidified that it was time for him to move on. There's not much to like about this situation, again, because you don't have a quarterback. I mean, you have Von Miller, so I would take it over the Dolphins job. You have Chris Harris. You have a couple players. You have a guy in John Elway who I don't think really is struggling for job security.

You wonder if Gary Kubiak would listen to. to becoming a head coach again. It sounds like he wants... John Elway would love Gary Kubiak to be the coordinator, and they bring in someone with Kubiak. Well, there are reports out there that John Elway would really love

to somehow trade for John Harbaugh. That's the next Broncos. Yeah, Mike Garifolo, Ian Rapport, have kind of thrown that out there as the dolphins and the Broncos as two teams that would love to go after John Harbott. But I don't think the Ravens are going to do that. I also found it interesting that Elway came out

said that Adam Gase, who was their offensive coordinator and someone that Elway thought that was not ready to be a head coach some years back, is saying, no, he's not a candidate at all. I mean, I don't Mark love that. No, I just think that's a, it's just... He's not the only one. Okay.

What was that, Eric? What? I don't know. It was inappropriate. It was way inappropriate. Totally, especially on New Horizons. Or spot on. Yeah, so it's a tough job. It's a defense that is underperformed, and Joseph was a defensive guy. And that's a whole thing, too, with all this, West.

There's eight head coach openings, and everyone wants to go in the new direction in the NFL, which is get an offensive-minded guy, and I would think Elway is the same way. But there's not, I mean, there's a lot of openings that maybe not a lot of guys even capable for the gig. It's a good time to be an offense coordinator with some pedigree. It is. I mean, I totally agree that you don't know where they'll turn. There are tons of candidates who are offensive minds. Nobody knows if they're going to be good head coaches.

And I have no problem with Vance Joseph being out after some of the coaching strategy he's used throughout games. But I think that John Elway is getting off easy. And I'm not sure exactly what Joe Ellis does are responsible for. He seems to be running the whole operation. I mean, there's essentially an ownership vacuum because of, of what's happening with the Boland family and fight over inheritance. But Joe Alice is running the business.

He's essentially running like an owner would. His and John O'I's fingerprints are all over these disappointing seasons. Think of how many different coaches and quarterbacks Elway has had in his time. And there's a great stat. It's a little unfair, but a great stat that Elway was 20 and 28

in the three years before Manning arrived and 20 and 28 in the three years since. Yeah, and outside of Jerry Jones, John Elway is the closest there is to a GM simply would have to fire himself to be removed because he's, you know, an icon. I don't know, but what if he has another Vance Joseph and another Brock Oswald?

I'm saying who's going to fire him? Who fires John Elway in Denver? Joe Ellis. Does he? I mean, it helped that he had a very good draft and brought in some good talent. However, yes, the quarterback position, which is ironic, obviously,

because of what he did for a living before he went into car sales and then into the front office. office but well-worn path yeah well-worn path uh but you just you get the feeling that he has no idea what to do a quarterback because again we don't have a strong quarterback class you have case keenum i think under contract for one more year seven million dollars guaranteed next year so right it's almost and then you have a bunch of guys who's on the market it's guys that are kind of in the case keenum tier of quarterback so they're kind of caught in between meanwhile von miller who's one of the

great defenders of this era is going to continue to get older and get paid paid a ton of money. It's a tough situation in Denver. Not high up on the list of best jobs, is it, Greg? I would say number six. Number six of eight. Wow. Wait, let me just go through this.

Sexy. Bengals. I have them eight. I would have them probably seventh. This is a weird way to do this. Mark, where do you have the dolphins? I had the dolphins above the Bengals. I would say Dolphins seven Bengals eight.

Arizona. Exactly how I have it. Arizona. Yeah, they're in the middle somewhere because they're got a pick. I mean, I like Rosen. They have the number one pick. They have some recent track record. This is taking some mental energy to go backwards on our, I don't even have a list. Well, that's good. All right. Let's move on to the Jets. Todd Bowles officially out. He was let go on Sunday night. This was the worst kept secret in the NFL. We knew Bowles was gone once the jet season spiraled. He loses 40 games in four years. That's not a good average. No playoff appearances. There was a report that Jim Harbaugh, that the Jets would shake the tree and see if maybe they could get

Jim out of Michigan, but there is now the idea that Jim is not going anywhere. And beyond that, in a press conference today, Chris Johnson, who is the acting owner while Woody is overseas as the UK ambassador, he is going to keep general manager, Mike McAgnon aboard. They are going to, the new head coach, whoever it is, and McAgnon will both answer to ownership. So a Jim Harbaugh type or anybody that is a CEO type, one of those big names is not going to want that arrangement. So it does give you pause.

As a Jets fan, you always get nervous because. You want the GM to hire them, don't you? You do and you want it to answer the GM. But the Jets, part of these teams that struggle year after year after year, they like we're talking about don't always have the right setup. And they're sticking with Big Mac, but they're going to have a structure that makes me nervous that they're going to end up with a rough set.

up just like it was when they paired Rex Ryan with John Izick, which was a disaster. And then they had our boy, Casserly, Charlie Cassarley, uh, lead the search that led to Todd Bowles and McCagna being paired. They didn't even know each other beforehand. I just want there to be some type of level of competence with this search. And it's hard for me to get excited because I'm, I'm worried that this team time and time again does not do that. Greg mentioned the dolphins, uh, the paradigm that's so confusing for anyone outside to understanding what's attractive about it. These things where you have coach and GM both reporting to the owner almost invariably lead to, you know, infighting and one trying to win favor and

often a power struggle. And I would say outside of Mike McCagden making a savvy trade that led to Sam Darnold, all credit due, this roster is in rough shape. What has Mike McAggen? No, that's fine. That was your move. But what is your, what is it about Mike McAggen? And that has saved his job. But that to me is like, that's not enough. He did a great job getting that trade done, but it is about roster building. It's the one position that can save your job if you make a trade. And that turned out to be an incredibly savvy trade with the Colts.

And he got lucky, too. There's luck that's involved as a component, but that's how sports is. But this is still the man you're leaning on to build the rest of the roster around your young quarterback. That's what you're trusted. I'm not going to say McCagnan is the right guy. I don't know if he is. I don't follow the Jets as well as Dan does, but Christopher Johnson, everything I've read and seen from him,

I trust him. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He seems to know what he's doing. I would have way more confidence in him picking a coach than the GM. He's not the owner. He's the acting owner. But for all intents and purposes, he is the owner right now. Who knows, you know, he's the right now the ambassador to the U.K.

To the U.K. Not a lot of people in that administration have kept jobs for too long, and we're about halfway through. It sounds like Chris Johnson. It's his gig. They have confirmed, or there's been multiple poll reports that they've requested to talk with Todd Monkin, who's kind of fun. Eric B. Enemy from the Chiefs and Chris Rashard from the Cowboys. And they were turned down by Matt Campbell, who's the Iowa State coach.

Who's probably turning down any throwoff. It's not just the Jets. I mean, the Eric B. Enemy should be not new news. That was mentioned on our Twitter show just a couple weeks ago. Insider Marks. Oh, you mentioned it. Yeah. Nice.

A little fill in the blank game. Oh, yeah. A lot of the things just disappeared from my mind. Roughly 20 days ago. Let's move on to the Bucks. Dirk Cutter out after three seasons. Three lost seasons in Tampa. There is no progress, no growth.

And maybe Chris Wessling, a lot of that can be attributed to getting into bed with James Winston is the face of your franchise who was suspended to start the season, who was benched. But it sounds like the Bucks as an organization are still behind. their former first overall pick. So whoever takes this job is going to have to figure out how to make that work. I don't think they're really that much behind James Winston. I think they're saying we're going to foot the $20 million bill for next year to give him a one-year audition on top of the four years we've already seen.

But he's not a part of the coaching search like you would expect from a number one overall draft pick and fans. Oh, yeah. I'm with you that I don't even know if he's guaranteed to make the T. It almost just makes sense to keep them on a one-year contract. They have the number five pick in the draft, and you would think they'll be looking at the quarterbacks. I know it's not a great class, but they have to be looking at a quarter.

And that pick comes one pick before the New York Giants. So, you know, that could become a very important moment in the draft. Not a terrible roster. I know this is one of the worst franchises in the league. I think they have one winning season in a long stretch. But not the worst roster out there. They got some players. What a tricky roster.

James Light, the GM, who is sticking around, said today of Winston. He has done some amazing things. There's a lot to like about James, and he'll be here next year. So, yeah, it doesn't say anything beyond next year. But for me, if you're the head coach, if you take the head coach job, you probably take it with the understanding that that's your guy. You got to have a plan. It is interesting how many of these GMs on the hot seat all kept their jobs.

David Caldwell and Jacksonville, Steve Kime in Arizona, Jason Light in Tampa, and Mike McCagnan in New York are four. I think the firing season for GMs is different than coaches. I mean, they're knee-deep in draft and scouting. Yeah, they get fired throughout the off-season in March, June, May. I mean, you don't see coaches getting firing fired. I have a, you're going to think this is a joke question. It honestly is not.

I have a serious question. If you are a coach with two or three offers and you are someone that, like, I have a physical nauseating response to the Bucks uniform, would you go to a completely different organization? where you love the look of the field, the stadium, the way it looks on television, the uniforms from top to bottom, or am I being utterly insane? I think that you have to trust your instincts. And if you don't like an area, you're not going to find...

It would keep me in bed. Got some breaking news here. I mean, it happened to be we're talking about him. Dirk Cutter is considered the frontrunner for the Falcons offensive coordinator. I mean, nervous. Didn't he already have that once? Yeah. I got really nervous there.

Jets. This whole thing is going to be a stressful process. So dirt cutter is going back to Atlanta. Possibly. I mean, he's the heavy frontrunner, according to D. Orlando Ledman. We've seen Daryl Bevel's name with the Falcons and Gary Kubiak. Let's talk about another big hiring on Monday,

or not a firing here on New Horizons Monday, but a hiring on New Horizons Monday. is a new horizon for Mike Mayock, the draft guru who has anchored the NFL network coverage of the draft in the process leading up to the draft for years and has really built a name as one of the more knowledgeable college talent scouts. There is, at least on the old boob tube. Well, the Raiders, they say, hey, bro,

you want to go work in a front office? You want the highest post that we have? You're the general manager now. You are replacing Reggie McKenzie. So, and Mike Mayock says, okay, bro, I will take that job. That's not a bad gig. I like going on TV. You're being rich.

Me and Eisen, we get along well, that's fine. That's all good. But you're going to give me a GM spot, get a nice office, get a parking spot. I'm the GM of an NFL team now, Mike Mayock. The parking spot turned the tides here. It didn't hurt. One thing is with the Niners, when they went and hired John Lynch, and people thought, how can this work?

It's someone with no developmental skills. Like, it's a former player who's in the media. I think it's an outside-the-box movement. If you had, like, temper tantrums and stuff? Who? And, like, eight crayons and stuff? John Lynch? Yeah.

He hasn't done enough. No, just that he was not, he didn't come from that background. That's more like a term from like a preschool, like, report card. He hasn't done enough parallel playing with other kids. Developmental skills. Oh, well, no. I mean, just that, you know, the background was not synced up with, the league thinks the same way about all these people. It's like Mayok to me is an.

interesting hire. And I mean, who deserves more of a shot from the media than Mike Mayock? It's an interesting pairing with John Gruden. They're friends. Who's been scouting, you know, college players more? Obviously, people inside the NFL are doing it as well. But they're looking for a specific skill set. And Mayok's been looking for every team.

He is known to be very close with Paul Gunther, who's their defensive coordinator. And he mentioned that Mayock did in his press conference saying, I know exactly what Paul is looking for. And I know how to find those types of players. I think it's cool. He's a 60-year-old guy who probably thought, like, this is my chance. Like, you're only going to live one life. And it's an interesting setup and everything.

But it's like, do you want to, if you're in his position as an analyst, do you want to do that your whole life? Or do you want to try to be in the game here? You know what I mean? You want to go for it. It's risky, but why not? You want to work for NFL media? He'd the call.

And year after year, do the same thing and just live a cycle year after year after year. And nothing ever changes and it's different season, but it's the same thing over and over and over again. Or do you want to go join us a GM somewhere? I like that, but there's a flip side to that. Dan, that was a dark look into your psyche. I don't know what this is. I don't know what's happening here. Well, I was making a reference to our lives, Mark.

That was the one Mark was just waiting for me to shut up So he wasn't listening No, I do not want to suddenly necessarily, though, be attached to the success of the Oakland Raiders a year from now where every draft season, if you're Mike Mayock, you are put out there as this mastermind

that has these massive media calls with everyone clutching to you and your information and you're put out there as a hero. He knows the deal, though. I know, I know he does. I'm just saying that there's a flip side of this and asked John Gruden is the first person asked. A year ago, you're John Gruden

television guy that everyone wants and now you're John Gruden. It's a challenge. It's a challenge. I think he's up for it. And like Parcells, it's like he always talked about you want to go to the one and 15 team. I mean, you're not going to get worse. And it turns Daniel Jeremiah into the most powerful figure at our network

in someone who is a generally nice guy who's probably going to turn into an absolute nightmare now that he's been given this type of power. I think the real under the radar breaking news from that whole segment was Dan's trying to bring boob tube back. I think I haven't heard that since my dad. When I was like nine years old. Hey, what's on the old boob to? It's on the old boob to. Hey, get the clicker.

All right. How about your Cleveland Browns, Mark? Obviously, Greg Williams is formally interviewing for the head coaching job. He was the interim and did quite well taking over for Hugh Jackson. So he interviews on Tuesday, Freddie Kitchens. Does he get an interview himself? He is. The process.

Actually, the one thing that encourages me amidst certain, some gossip and rumors that have me highly concerned, as you know, is that they have announced more than double any other team of the people that they're interviewing. It sounds like they're going to take their time. Dan Campbell, Matt Eberfluse, Brian Flores, Mike Munchak, Mike McCarthy, Adam Gase, Kevin Stefanski, all the mics. Cults, O.C., Nick Siriani, and Jim Caldwell. I mean, it's just like at least you're, I hope, because my concern was they're going to interview two people and someone just going to hire Mike McCarthy and not think about it. I hope that they're open-minded enough. Ownership, front office all of them to be wowed by someone different than we expect.

I want John Dorsey to make the decision. I absolutely think that is how it must go. And I'm not convinced that's how it's going to go at all. It's the only thing around the Browns. It's a great desirable job with the best up-and-coming quarterback in the league and a ton of talent on the roster. And they already proven in the 7-8-1 season they can hang with anyone. A lot of people will pick them as a playoff team.

But will they get out. out of the way upstairs in ownership because they have meddled time and time again in the last seven or eight years, however long Haslam's been there. Will they stay out of the way? Dorsey deserves a wide berth because he had a nice first year with his team.

Will he get it? I think the one concern lingering with, look, who knows that Adam Gase couldn't go to another team and do a good job, but it is Jimmy Haslam and Peyton Manning are legit, very, very close friends. The point that years, for years, there were rumors that Peyton Manning was going to become high up in Cleveland's front office,

that they're super tight because of their Tennessee ties. And Peyton Manning is in ownership's ear saying Adam Gase is the guy. So he's going to have, from top down, you're going to have to be wowed by someone else for a change of direction, if that's how this is actually playing out behind the scenes. Lastly, the Packers. What are you hearing, Greg? Well, my source is on the ground. Tell me.

That's nice. Josh McDaniels is one of the names. When I say, what are you hearing? I'm talking about what you're watching on the boob tube yourself. Yeah. Josh McDaniels was requested for an interview, Zach Taylor, who's kind of like the next. I guess people are wondering if he's the next McVeigh

because he's worked under McVeigh. He's in his 20s, I believe, still, was requested for an interview. It sounds like they're going to go through a pretty long list. Pat Fitzgerald, the Northwestern coach, who once was very close and worked under Mark Murphy, who is essentially their acting owner. That would not surprise me. Seems like the favorite just because of that relationship.

Wes, I know that you, every Saturday, sit down and watch Northwestern on that special cable package you have. What are your thoughts on the coach? Well, I do have a friend from Tybee Island, who's a chiropractor, and is close friends with Pat Fitzgerald. Wow. Yeah. So they're from the same area.

They've known each other since childhood. He speaks in glowing terms. Let's get him on the show. Doug Bisbee's his name. No, I mean, let's get Pat Fitzgerald. I don't care about Doug. Sorry, Dr. Doug. Sorry, Dr. Doug.

All right, and we think the Packer job is the, oh, let's go through the rest of it. All right, the Jet Job. Where do you put that? I think that's, like, in the top three because of Sam Darnold. And it's a good challenge, and you can be the first coach in a long time to make the Jets a success. I'd go three, exactly because of that behind the Pets. Packers and Browns. All right.

How about the Bucks? I have the Bucks. Sixth. They're in the middle. I don't think their roster is that bad. And I'd rather have Winston than a couple of these other teams situation. Winston and the number five. I have like five teams between six and seven.

So that's right. The James Winston versus Marcus Marietta battle between West. So depressing. No one's on. The whimper. So depressing. I'd rather have a vacancy than James Winston. Packers.

I think that's number two, I'd put it. That's where I had. of them. Maybe one. The one thing I'd say if you... I would take number one because of just because of the Brown's history. Beghamyfield is 20 years old.

But it's a short-term league. We keep talking about, you know, in 2016, they fired or they hired seven coaches. Only one of them still has a job. So I'm worried about the next three years. Fortune favors the bold. Aaron Rogers, I think going and winning some Super Bowls with Aaron Rogers is plenty bold for me.

I think it's a challenging job too because it reminds me it's not that it's the Raiders, but it's a little Grood-esque, Like, when you hit Green Bay with Aaron Rogers as your quarterback, eight and eight is going to get you flamed. You better be 11 and 5 or 12 and 4, or people are going to come calling. He's also the quarterback that in this room has been stated many times.

It's the best ever. How many coaches get the opportunity? Well, ask Jimmy Johnson about working with Dan Marino. That could not have gone worse. Like, these things don't always go well. But there's also something we said for unlocking a mystery like Baker Mayfield. What are the possibilities there? Absolutely.

It's a great debate. Also great was our conversation with Mike Garifolo of NFL Network outside of the Eagles facility. We did it on our Twitter show earlier today, and now we will present it to you in full. Take it away, us. That's a great segue. Mark Sessler says a lot of hot air coming from NFL Network airwaves. Now joining us from the Eagles complex in Philadelphia is the great Mike Garifolo. Mike, your thoughts on Mr. Sessler's conference.

comments. Let's start there. They were checking me in and I was catching up with one of my buddies, Matt Schneider, from my Fox days. So frankly, I didn't catch any of it. If you want to request me right now, I'd be happy. You don't want to know. You guys could take it offline. But Mike, thank you for joining us here on the ATN Twitter show. You're outside, by the way. And, you know, at this point, Mike, I mean, it's almost 2019. A little green screen. We could get away with the technology and you'd be feeling good in a corridor somewhere. I'd have no problem doing this show from the comforts of my home, which I was doing until late last night when they said,

we need your update on Nick Falls and his ribs tomorrow morning. And I thought, okay, when I got to get that. I can do it from home. We've got the phone. No, we want to do it. Which was great, though, because I got an eyewitness account of Nick Falls walking into the building here today. And when he was asked how he was doing, he literally tapped his ribs. And he said, I'm good.

That's what my eyewitness source told me. You're a real journey. That kind of color from home. Pelliserosero's not getting that from his basement. Give me a break. No, he's not from Don Draper's office. You ever notice how his home set is like Draper and it's like later Draper. It is.

It's late period Draper. When I think of Tom, when I think of Draper, I think of Tom Pelliserro. There's a high parallel there between those two. Yeah, late period Draper. Yeah, I said, is that John Hamm one day? I put a post up on my Instagram story. My wife was like, it better not be because she is not. never met John Ham and

I know that's something kind of lofty to throw out in the universe but the thing is he was at the NFL honors twice and I didn't take her either year the one because I just never thought like oh she wants to go see John Hamm he's hosting the second time I didn't know he was presenting so she wanted to kill me both times

anyway we're way off track it's for the best falls bruise ribs yeah there's no need there's really no need for you to introduce your wife ever to a John Hamm type I mean whether it's actually him or and it looks like that All right, Mike. She's told me, I love you.

Hold on, no, no, no, this is an important point. She's told me, I love you. But if he ever walks into a place where I am and says, you're with me, she's gone. I get it. I get it. Makes sense. So Foles walks into the, or does he levitate into the facility? Because at this point, that man is gold.

Somebody sent me a tweet today. It was a picture of Nick Foles and a picture of Jesus Christ. And he said, I can't tell the difference between these two pictures. So if you're into that, I guess, you know, they are building shrines to him here. And Chris Long said maybe it was the shrine that allowed him to get up from that hit against you Debbie on Clowny a couple of weeks ago. Well, maybe it was the shrine that made sure that his ribs didn't crack. Now, they're bruised, and that is a painful thing. You know, I kept saying on air today, oh, it's just bruised ribs.

I've never had bruised ribs. I know it does hurt. I mean, cracked ribs and fractured ribs. That's the stuff that's going to prevent you from playing. And that's not the case with Nick Foles. He got that full battery of test. Everything looks good. And as I explained a little bit earlier, it was a.

$500,000 round of tests there because that $250,000 per game starting thing that he got during the year, it doubles in the postseason. He gets $500,000 if he plays 33% of the snaps on Sunday. And then another $500,000. So a million for every playoff game that he wins up to $4 million if he should win all four of them. He is Jesus. Mike, you cut your teeth in the New York, New Jersey metro area. So, and you know, I'm a Jets fan. So what do you got from me, Mike? Where are we at? Are they going to get this right?

And what names are you hearing out there? Help me, Mike. Let me just undercut my own credibility here and say, I was the guy that said Steve Wilkes in Arizona was going to be a fantastic hire. Now, I called the foul on myself today on Twitter. And I could argue that, you know, he didn't get a fair shake there, but I screwed that one up. So are they going to get it right? I don't know if they're going to get it right, but I will tell you this.

It's going to be an interesting search because I believe, and we've already seen Eric Bienimi out there, I think you're going to get them looking at a couple other unproven, not unproven, a couple other guys who maybe don't have the same pedigree as some of these retread head coaches. I know that they would love to get a crack at Mike McCarthy. That has been my understanding. And I mentioned that a couple of weeks ago. However, I don't know that McCarthy has them at the top of his list. And the last I heard, the possibility of McCarthy sitting out a year was a strong one for him. Now, he's kind of keeping things under wraps. close to the best. You're not going to hear a whole lot about that. I do expect that he will interview,

but the teams are going to have to court him, and he's going to have to court teams. I mean, he's going to have to go a little bit of both ways here on McCarthy. Yeah, I do. When did Mike McCarthy become the bell of the ball? You know, you would think Sam Darnold, what better coaching job could you get than being able to work with a guy like Sam Darnet? I'm surprised. Do you think other teams are looking at McCarthy that way, like the Jets are too? he's going to have to fully investigate this jet situation because I know a lot of times some coaches will look at it and they'll say,

New York, do I really want New York? You know what? It's not even really New York. It's so far West and Jersey. You don't even feel the hot breath of Manhattan on your neck. Trust me. I mean, it's the market. I get it, but it's a little bit different lifestyle living out there.

And the other thing is the bar is so low. You go in and make the playoffs. You're going to be carried off as a hero at this point. This franchise, we keep getting these restarts where you think, okay, okay, now it's the time. You know, you come in there, you have a little bit of success, and Donald has shown some flashes, and, you know, he's got a lot to work on still, but he's shown some flashes early on. You think it's a guy that you would like to work with, yeah. All right, and then on the Brown side, we've been talking, we were talking at the top of the show,

that that feels like it's the best job to have out there. Bruce Ariens won as far to throw his own name into the mix a few weeks back. I haven't really heard much on that end. I don't know if you've heard anything about Bruce, but what are your thoughts on what's going on with the Browns right now? Now, and Bruce Ariens expanded to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers today by texting Ian Rappaport saying, you know, yeah, now I consider that one as well. You know what, while you're at it.

Hey, Bruce, how about the Cardinals? Yeah, sure, I'd go back there as well. You know, it's just, it's a moving target sometimes for these guys. I get it. It's an attractive job, and I buy into, and I tweeted this out earlier, Peyton Manning is a Adam Gaye supporter, and Peyton Manning is close with

Jimmy and Dee Haslam, so I fully expect the possibility of Gay's landing in Cleveland to be a strong possibility here. Now, you know, we mentioned McCarthy. Steve Weiss said a couple of weeks, so he doesn't think he's going to wind up being the head coach, but I still wouldn't be shocked if they talked to McCarthy

and brought him on a formal interview. But Gays is the guy that I'm looking at here, because, you know, he and Ryan Tannehill never really quite clicked, but through the whole period. I covered this team closely a couple of years ago. I had their playoff game against the Steelers as well. Nobody stands by their quarterback more than Adam Gaze.

It's just no matter what the guy is doing, Gaze is always supporting him, never negative regardless of who it is, and always feeling like he can get that guy moving in the right direction. So I think his confidence, paired with Baker Mayfield's dangerous cockiness. I think it's a good combination. I mean, Mike, I have one question, though, because it was interesting here John Dorsey say

during his press conference that he hoped ownership would listen to essentially their search committee's recommendation and it certainly sounds like a Peyton Manning to Haslam channel for Adam Gase. I don't get the sense necessarily that John Dorsey feels that way and there's also a star

wide receiver on the Browns who doesn't get along and has a bad history with Adam Gase and Adam Gase in general I think there's a lot to like but there's an aura of sort of cantankerousness with Adam Gase and why after the Dolphins experience to the Brown say, this is the best we can do? Mark is nervous.

Just a bit. No, I don't think they sit there and say, boy, it's got to be Adam Gaze. If not, we're in some serious trouble right here. I just believe in his candidacy for this job. And, you know, listen, once you sit down with guys, you know, they have an idea who their favorites are and who they certainly have a list in the order of things. But I tend to allow these processes to play out. I mean, these interviews really are important. I've heard a lot of situations where, you know, hey, this guy moved himself up on our list during our interview. You really hit it off, especially with the owner. I mean, the owners are the kinds of guys that they go into it.

They don't understand the X's and O's per se the way that maybe the general manager does. So they're relying a lot upon the interview. And if he can go in there and he can, wow, Jimmy has them, great. And if those guys in there as far as John Dorsey, Elliot Wolf, Alonzo Highsmith, all those guys who certainly know their football there, If they can come to an agreement there, I could see gays coming out. That's all I'm saying. He's a guy who's going to get a lot of support from Peyton Manning and other folks around the league as well. Though I guess it depends on who you talk to because John Elway's not bringing him in.

And John Elway was the guy that said he didn't think he was ready a couple of years ago when he moved on when he was the Broncos offensive coordinator. We've got eight openings. We're hearing all these names bandied about. Some are being reported. I'm sure there are names that aren't even being reported about that you probably hear. Is there a name? that may not be reportable, but has shocked you or surprised you that this person is getting interest. Yeah, he's not reportable.

Is there anybody from college? I got a good one. Come on, Mike. No one's watching. Break it right here. He's from college. Possibility, yeah. But I want to talk about another guy that surprised me today.

How about that? Josh McDaniels, because he is getting some interest. You know, Bob Lamont, who is a coaching agent to the stars, I guess you could say. talked last year after he terminated his relationship with Josh McDaniels when he left the cults the author. And he said, you're committing professional suicide here. And he said, I never go back on my word. My word is my bond.

All that stuff, Lamont said publicly. And he felt like McDaniels was never going to get a shot again. It was going to have to be him succeeding Bill Belichick. Well, McDaniels is getting some looks. And I guess I'm a little surprised because, you know, if you're another team. And look, we're in a league now where. A player could do something on the field, in the locker room, even off the field, and a team will cut him, and another team will say,

hey, no problem, he didn't do that in our presence. So let's bring them in here. Let's give him a shot here. So it's a similar type of thing with Josh McDaniels where, you know, the Colts would never even think about the possibility of bringing in Josh McDaniel. But because the Packers didn't have that done to them, they'll say, oh, well, let's bring him in. If he wants the coach here, great.

We don't care what he did to the Colts. So I guess I'm a little bit surprised by that, the fact. He is getting some interest this year. Two things, Mike. First of all, if you want to get back to Hoboken, there's a car there with the engine running, turn around, get in the thing, and hightail it, get on the turnpike, and fly. Well, I think it's a player's car. There's a player coming out here, and it's so dark here that I can't see.

Take it. It might be. It's a bearded fellow. It is. But I think you could take it. Hold on. Watch. Hey, hey, Jason.

Oh, he's stealing a painting. That's not, not Kelsey. Not Kelsey. Why is that man stealing a painting? That's not that right. Quick tweet, quick tweet before we say goodbye to Mike. There goes half the Fulstron. Right, here it is.

Mike Harfollow is my hero. I'm watching the show in my Nick Fulz jersey, and my God, I've never heard happier news. I don't know that hashtag means BDN, but I can tell you, Mike, that people are excited in Philly about that quarterback. You know, I know exactly what that hashtag means. Let me just say. Your friend Colleen Wolf, she's not as innocent as you think, okay? And during the show on Saturday and Sunday, boy, was she trying to get me on that one, hashtag BDN. She was dancing around that.

Ask her about that. Yeah. That's funny because on this show, she said that we should ban the term Big D when discussing the Cowboys. But that's for another show and another time. Mike. What a two-face. Mike Harfolo. Thank you, buddy.

Get dry. And we appreciate you joining us here on the Twitter show. You got it, guys. Thank you. Happy New Year. All right, that was great. Before we go, a hashtag that's been on Twitter, hashtag when Marvin Lewis was hired, January 14th, 2003, if you'd believe that. So when Marvin Lewis.

By the way, I started that head. Oh, you started it. Nice job by you, Chris Wesley. Really? Oh. Is that taking off? I have no idea if it's taking off. Well, let's make it a thing.

You started since you started it. You started the Dalton scale? You started this. Wow. And you tell us you're not a Bengals fan. When Marvin Lewis was hired, where were you, Wes? I was living in Cincinnati. I was in my seventh year as the records manager at Keating,

Newthing and Cleek Camp law firm, playing softball four nights a week, playing hoops in the backyard with spice rack. Spicing! Dreaming of Tybee Island, drinking entirely too much beer, getting in trouble, probably had just broken off an engagement with a girl who engaged herself to me. That's what I was doing in 2003.

How about you, Mark? What was the day January 14th or something like that? January 2013. January 14th, 2000. That is nine days after the Browns lost a horrific playoff game to the Steelers. Tommy Maddox and the Steelers. Absolutely. Kelly Holcomb and the Browns, a big lead. Bruce Ariens is the offensive coordinator.

The backdrop to this, I was living in Denver. I watched that game alone because I was so nervous about it, despite having a bunch of Browns fans who were friends. and was living with a young female who quite an up-and-down relationship, to put it in no other way. And we left town about a week or two later in a yellow VW camper van attempting to go to Los Angeles. The van after stopping at multiple national parks broke down in Arizona, in Phoenix, where suddenly she told me, after about being there for about a week or two, where we were living in a van in a parking lot.

Essentially, you were homeless. We were very close because I also, this was, this is a nice person, but this is one of those special girlfriends in your 20s that costs about $12,000 and put me into massive debt. And so I was on the outs big time. And she started, well, I didn't know, it was not exactly how that went. But she was telling me suddenly, you know, I'm a desert person. I just think we should stay here.

And I'm like, I am not a desert person. And, you know, there was a year or two of tumult that's, that, that materialized from that, and then I moved to Los Angeles. A lot of drama. Do you stay in the van? You just had two years. Did you stay in Phoenix?

No, no. I got an apartment along a highway above what was one of the larger meth labs in Phoenix. It is the dark of all those stories that I've heard, Mark, and I've heard them all from you. That is the darkest story, your Arizona story. Nothing tops the Arizona story. It was a rough period, but I emerged. suddenly in Los Angeles, two years later.

January 14, 2003, I had just been hired by the Journal News, and I met it on my first day, another new hire who drove to work in a green Mustang was Ian Rappaport. So we're two 23-year-old journals. I was in a long-distance relationship with my college girlfriend driving back and forth between New York and Boston, a highly doomed relationship. Sometimes you just got to know to break up when senior years over. but instead I went the route that led to like multiple years of heartache. So this was a growing period in the life of the old Zucer, then the young Zuser.

This was all built up to see if Greg existed in 2003. I know. It sounds like it was a dark time for all of us. I was one of the least happy times of my life. I don't know exactly what I was doing. I was working at Fox Sports on the weekends, which was great. I was working out here. Out here in Los Angeles.

I was living in West Hollywood. I was working on either most outrageous game show moments five or six or significant others an underrated pilot that eventually did go to series at Bravo. But the personal life, something just didn't feel right.

This was not the path that I should be on at that time. And I bailed. You were 24, right? I would not call it a dark time, but I think all of us probably had that angst that we should have been doing something else with our lives at that age. Oh, yeah.

I definitely thought of it. I probably shouldn't have been covering the swimming and diving championships in upstate New York at that time of my life. And it was something that haunts at you. I was like an HR coordinator at a Wells Fargo that I could walk to from my apartment along the highway and had no car.

I mean, it was not exactly like a high point. All right, there you go. Black, excuse me, New Horizons Monday in the books here from Culver City. Where was Erica in 2003? Oh, yeah. About 11 years old? Knee high to a Junebug.

Yeah, I was a bat girl number three in my fifth grade play. Also, you would say it, an emotional dark time for you, potentially. Yeah, I really kind of felt like I should be doing something different. Should have been bad girl number two. I know. What's up with you being third in line there? It's not third. It was first.

I don't know. Number three seems to come with a certain connotation. It was a dark period. She's buried it. It's deep. You were in the chorus, as they say. Yeah, I didn't have any lines. All right.

Thank you, everybody. We'll be back on Wednesday with another show. So check that out. And if you didn't check out our Week 17 Recap, check that out. And that's it. This is Dan Hedzes signing off for Quiet Storm. The Mailman, the old boss. And Ricky Hollywood behind the glass.

Happy New Year, guys. Happy New Year, everybody. 2019. Bring it. The Andre Hopkins is wearing a skirt. It is. This is an I-heart podcast.