NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - New Horizons Monday 2020

Episode Date: December 31, 2019

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal break down everything that happened this black mon- we mean "New Horizons Monday". The heroes take you through all the hirings and firings from this Monday.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Hey, everybody. A reminder that the Around the NFL show on NFL Network, this is a real thing that's happening. So before you listen to this podcast, go to your DVR. set the recording we have an episode every friday 6 p.m. Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific leading up to championship Sunday if you don't watch garbage people if you don't watch just record it and then play it but leave the room I don't want to hear any of this how I don't know how to find out what time it's on I mean do you even know how to open a mailbox and get your mail if you do it's about as hard as that yes so again the around the NFL TV show on NFL network our own show it's never happened

starting this Friday and each Friday for the next three weeks. Check it out. And also our live show from Super Bowl, from the Super Bowl at the Miami Improv. Make sure you get tickets, Miami Improv. com slash events, the Around the NFL podcast live at Miami Improv. Check it out. Let's get to the show. The Around the NFL podcast will challenge their indefinite suspension.

Welcome to another edition. of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis coming to you from a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. Some people call it Black Monday. We do not call it Black Monday because we respect the people associated with this terrible day on the league calendar.

This is New Horizons. Monday. Doesn't it feel better now? Doesn't it feel, Mark, fresh, a new chance to turn the page for these men that have lost their jobs? It's all about perspective. And, you know, it's the beginning of a new journey for those that have been let go. We did have to overtext, if you recall, Dan. Have a brief chat with Greg who was getting a little too excited about breaking news and elements of news.

And just sort of say, come on, Greg. As they will say around the office, let's take a look at. what's happening to the human side of this. But he's in a good place now, I believe. Well, we're taping this show late Monday afternoon on the West Coast, and, you know, we were hoping to have all the news that we could have before we go off New Year's Eve is tomorrow and whatnot. But some of these situations, not wrapping up,

not as grisly as it sometimes is on... Almost like murky horizons, Monday right now. But that's the way it is. But what we're going to do is we're going to go through all the news. We're going to save, you know, topics regarding the playoffs this weekend, wildcard weekend, for Thursday's preview show. We're going to keep our focus here on the hirings and firings and the speculation out there. And then a little bit of our own version of the aftermath, one of the great NFL network programs. In fact, if it's good enough for Al Michaels to come in and every year and do it, comes in from, you know, Bel Air in his own car, private car takes him there.

and he does our show in NFL network. Damn, that's good enough for us. After flying in from Seattle this morning or last night probably, I mean, right? A workhorse. It had to be a beefy 25, 30 minutes. It wasn't a three and a half minute come in, shake hands and leave type deal. So the aftermath is the network show that spins around the league after each Sunday. We're going to do something similar because this is also exit interview day in the NFL for coaches and players after another regular season is wrapped up.

But let's get into it, and we'll start with what we know for sure. And, yes, we'll start with the New York Giants. The chairman, who have decided to make a change today on New Horizons Monday. The sound drop really making it worth hearing this music throughout 49 or Seahawks on Sunday night. I was testing out various. options working with Ricky. And we came down with a few different options we liked. Yeah, we're just going to cycle through them, you know,

keep the listener engaged. Totally discordant with a fourth quarter spinning utterly out of control, listening to these sound bites, but interesting. Anyway, so the Giants make the decision to fire Pat Schumer after two losing seasons. There just was not enough growth, obviously, for the Giants, who, despite having two big first round, pick, Saquan Barkley, obviously a superstar. Daniel Jones showed a lot this year as a rookie. The rest of the team, it just never really has come together. In fact, Schumer goes 9 and 23 with

the Giants. He went 9 and 23 with the Browns. And that winning percentage, which is, I think, in the 275 range, is the seventh lowest for any head coach with that level of experience. Mark, you know Pat Schumer well from his time. with the Browns. And is it fair to say that he can be both a guy that maybe isn't an NFL head coach but also entered a borderline impossible situation taking this giant's job? I think it's extremely fair because I think he was put into a bad situation in Cleveland and came out and showed that he can be a very talented, skilled play caller and coordinator of offense

and went into the giant situation. Anyone taking that job was stuck in this front office morass. an ownership mouthpiece scenario where they're trying to cling to Eli Manning. And, you know, I feel like Shermer was hamstrung with Eli Manning from the start and then forced to try to turn it around and flip it with a rookie quarterback. I don't think that Pat Shermer is, you know, Paul Brown 2.0, but he was put into a really rough situation. And it seemed to me doomed from the start.

I agree with all that. And yet when the owner comes out and he doesn't say, hey, you know, the typical, we wanted to move in a new direction. Thanks for this. We're doing this. He says there were so many games that felt like we should have won and we just didn't get the job done.

That's just laying out on the line. You should have won more games and a team that was purposely tanking the season from the front office perspective that Dolphins won more games than the Giants do. I still am just getting used to these John Mara press conferences and I just remember

you know, back in the mid-2000s when he would have him there was this sort of aura of wow this is one of the great one like when this owner speaks they really know what they're doing and as the amount of these press conferences have piled up every you know 12 to 24 months you just think of all the mistakes that the giants have made to be one of the worst franchises in the league since 2012 and you think like he he bears a lot of the responsibility and he took it I mean he said put it on me look I'm I it starts at the top but He's always on the defensive, and that's part of working in New York, and it's part of always failing to really pull the Band-Aid off and always have a connection to Giants history, and he still is going to have that connection in the front office.

Well, yeah, I thought it was noteworthy that he said, we've lost some standing as an organization as I look around the league. That, to me, was the quote that hit home. But I kind of, I would love my owner to say that, to show an understanding, you know, that we are not. what we used to be and we understand what's been happening is no Bueno and we need to try to change it and that's what we're setting out to do. I still feel like if I'm a Giants fan, which I've

been accused of on this podcast, I still feel like I'm in good hands and I give them a, not a total pass. I get it, but they chose McAdoo and Shermer. No, that absolutely. They've made a couple bad decisions, but they've also had an incredible run before this slump they've gone

into and the end of the Eli Manning era, maybe the Patriots are about to learn this too. It's always going to be a little bumpy figuring out how to get out of that era and into the next. Dave Gettelman, though, he stays, and this is, now this is worth potentially criticizing as well.

Let's listen to what Mara had to say about Gettelman, the GM, who does not lose his job, despite some big swings and misses. We could have differences of opinion about whether those were hits or misses. There definitely have been some misses, no question about it. I think

that can happen to anybody. there was reasons for some of those personnel decisions. He does know that the batting average has got to increase going forward, though. Wes love those baseball metaphors in other sports. They always pop up. Yeah, he, John Mara said that he happens to believe in Gettleman, and he happens to believe in the changes he's made. And that's his prerogative as the owner,

but there's a lot of changes as we go forward. The way he's building his roster isn't how a lot of people believe you should build a roster. with running backs, with big behemoth defensive linemen who stopped the run. And then to me, the bigger question is a desperate general manager usually doesn't work well with a new head coach leading the search. It's fine if he's an established GM with job security, but a desperate GM, it's usually not a good combination bringing in a new coach. They butt heads too much. It feels like hazardous territory, again, for the next tire. Now, they have more parts.

It's the same thing the Jets have been through in various forms. The same thing the Browns have been through and are about to go through too with a GM that might be on the hot seat hiring a coach that in theory is not exactly a line that has a little more seniority. It's a problem. We mentioned Eli Manning and he will certainly, almost certainly, not be back with the Giants. And he kind of put a period on that today with comments he made at his locker

as the players across the league are cleaning out the clubhouses. He's turning 39 on Friday. He was asked if he was interested in being Daniel Jones's backup next season. Eli had this to say, I doubt it. I doubt it. Backing up is not real fun, which opens up the window. He is open to playing. He's going.

But it is not going to be with the Giants. Which is for the best possible situation at this point. Yeah, I think he's just, it's going to sink in. eventually that retirement is his best option. I just don't see anyone looking at the game field from the last couple of years and saying, yes, this guy's a starter. I think he's expecting. He even said he's going to take a couple days and then he'll talk.

I think he's fully expecting to retire. I mean, maybe he's going to see if there is some crazy opportunity out there. But the way, when I listened to all the things he said today, he sounded like he knew and that played out in the way that he approached those last two starts or his family. is there and he was soaking in all of. We've also had a pretty unmatched influx of young quarterbacks where four or five years ago you could have maybe matched Eli Manning with a desperate team that didn't have anything under center, but what team is that today?

Someone on NFL Network mentioned the cults bringing Eli Manning into be where Peyton was. I mean, it was just conjecture, but there's just no good match. That's the early leader in the clubhouse for Best Point of the podcast. We're going to be keeping track. It's a new thing we're doing. Oh, I like that. Sounds competitive. Ricky is going to announce who at the best point of the podcast at the very end.

Very good. Great. Finally, the Giants now turn their attention to finding a new head coach. And a lot of connecting dots to Matt Rule of Baller, who almost ended up with the Jets last year. It didn't work out. And the Giants are said to be interested. And Rule is a local guy. He has, his stock is sky high.

after really putting together a Baylor program that is on the rise and is expected to continue to be on the rise in the upcoming season. And we'll see if that's the guy, Josh McDaniels, whose name is popping up again. Adam Schefter reported the Giants and Panthers have requested permission to interview with the Patriots OC. So all those hot takers that said McDaniels had burned his final bridge by walking out of that handshake agreement with the cults,

It seems like Josh McDaniels will continue to be a hot name this time a year, and we'll see if he actually takes a job this time. Well, Mark was really excited about this New York Post article speculating that now would be a great time for Belichick to make that move to the Giants. I mean, they play the hits at the New York Post. They know there's no basis for this whatsoever, but it's probably the – I bet it's the most highest trafficked article on their site. Well, the root of my excitement is that it was a sandwich bet from late August that I proposed. So if it ever were to happen, I'd basically just retire right there and just go live in the middle of the farmhouse.

How would you feel about Josh McDaniels as a Brown's coach? Why not? At this point, I mean, wheel anyone. I mean, he'll be there for 90 days to 100, to what two years. Wait, I don't know. I'm always leery when it feels like people are selling you something. And people are always trying to sell us Josh McDaniels and this personal growth that he underwent. After his Denver years, he had to go through some things and find himself.

Okay. Well, then why? Did you leave Indianapolis in the lurch if you found yourself? Moving on. So that's the... He loves his family, Wes. That may be the best point. I'm taking notes.

Yeah. Moving on. So that's what's going on. Who's even elsewhere on New Horizons Monday? Hold on. You got to be quick with it. I'm playing a harp here. We are in a different situation here.

We're in a different stage. Everything's a little. A soundstage with a fake Rubik's cube two feet away from Dan's shoulder. I don't know, a gigantic Rubik's cube. The trend zone guys, who we love, you know, they are the Spanish around the NFL podcast. They're up in the studio and we expected Ricky to muscle them out when you just, you know, compare numbers in terms of audience. But here we are on the stage five instead of the podcast studio.

So it is what it is, I guess. Yeah, but I couldn't fit the harp up there. Quite a diverse skill set playing the harp and muscling people out. Anyway, yes, so Jay Gruden has been out of work since October when the Redskins let him go. And Ron Rivera, who's been out of work for a couple of months since the Panthers let him go. He seems to be the guy that will be the head coach of the Washington Redskins. By the time you hear this, he might be the head coach of the Washington Redskins. But he's not at this moment as we're recording.

It's just pointing in that direction. and Rivera will, as he takes this job, you understand he probably has some reservations about the culture in Washington, but I guess money and power talks, and I'm sure he's going to get in a lot of both. One guy he won't have to worry about clashing with is Bruce Allen. Rapsheden reported that the Redskins informed Alan

that he's been relieved of his duties. The team president was his role. It is a run that was deep. profoundly unsuccessful and Alan is shown the door so it does Greg open up you know a power a vacuum that someone's going to fill and maybe Rivera gets a bigger voice and the type of decisions that Alan was handling yeah it sounds like that's some of the you know dots that are being what do they say you know they're crossing T's they're they're figuring dotting eyes yeah dotting eyes they're figuring out how the front office is going to work there was a report out

there that Rivera was dining on Monday night with what happened you tell us I don't know there's a lot of strange ambient sounds Wes's jacket keeps bumping up against his microphone there's a lot of things going on we are we're pros pros pros pros pros pros I uh I saw a report that Barack Obama Dan Snyder and Ron Rivera were out to dinner that's pretty bold that's pretty bold that's pretty I mean, he's joining the team. Mike Silver was on our network saying he was like looking at a text and you can guess who was probably from that. Everything is going fine.

There's no delay. It is all happening. You don't get dinner with Obama and the team president or the team owner and not be the head coach of the team. How about that by Obama? I guess a little civic pride. He probably wants the local team to not be an embarrassment, which they have been.

I mean, the Bruce Allen news to me was almost bigger than the Ron Rivera news because Bruce Allen has been. a plague on this franchise. There's a movement for the last couple of years, the Fire Bruce Allen movement that was so popular, the Washington Post wrote an article about the movement includes ESPN's Matthew Berry and all this stuff. And I think it's a good thing for them that he's gone.

Well, one of the reasons that he stuck around for so long, mysteriously to most, is that his father obviously was George Allen. And when Daniel Snyder... Mighty adds, Georgia, y'allel. I don't know if that's how he was telling people that news. But, you know, Daniel Snyder grew up a Redskins fan during that George Allen time and was friends with Bruce Allen,

but that's not how you run a team. So this, I think, was an absolute must for Rivera to even consider this job. That's a good point. He was with the Bucks from 2004 to 2008. He was with the Redskins from 2010 to 2019. None of those teams ever had a playoff appearance or a playoff win under him. No playoff wins. He's like a one-man Bengals.

They always say like he makes a lot of, like he's good behind, you know, he's good at the business side of things. All you've got to do is look at a game in Washington and hear first of all about the fan experience and look at the empty seats. He's also good at misrepresenting the truth. He sits up there like Nero as the organization burns around him and he tells people the straight face,

the culture is, quote, damn good with the Redskins as he's firing Jay Grude. Yeah, that was the worst press conference of the year. Little known fact, his sister, I believe. Did you see Adam Gase's introductory press conference? I would say this one, one tops that one for me just cut out of just absolute utter nonstop lying to people what about our boy with the 49ers well that wasn't this year but that was you know the one year guy

jim tom sullo he was not an interim that was a lot of fun that was the most uncomfortable press conference hey i just coach ball that's i mean you're what if what if ronnervera pulled a super mcdaniel and went out to dinner with the president of the united states the former president of the United States Never have dinner with the president And then walked out on the Redskins Wouldn't that be a great power flex And wouldn't that on some level

Make him even more in demand It's like whoa this guy He's ruthless man How come you weren't saying that about McDaniels though It would be a brand just the next level You got Obama Might kill this like endless buzz That you know and I'm sure it's true

That Ron Rivera is just this wonderful man I mean I mean I'm sure he is But you know a problem with it You hear it nonstop And it's like, we get it. We get it. He's a wonderful man. But, you know, doing something like that, be like, he's diverse in his behavior.

Maybe he's got a mean streak to him. So listen to as you know, Mark's a little grumpy. It's 12 past five here in California. We're off to a little bit of a late start. He's ready to go. No, I find that New Horizons Monday is essentially agenda Monday for a lot of people with their messaging. It's a lot of fill air time with the same talking points for nine or straight to 10 to 10 hours on television.

But is that why you were mad that we had to wait 10 minutes to start here? 10 minutes. Try like 37 minutes. Yeah, a little known fact here. You know how you've pointed out? I'm like the NFL Network historian. Yeah. I got a good one for you.

One of their original on-air talents was Bruce Allen's sister, Jennifer Allen. Hey, that's a great point. I read her book. Fifth quarter. Look at this. Very good. It's all happening. There's no such thing as a fifth quarter.

It was actually a very well-written book. I recommend it. You should check it out personally, Dan Hans. It could be an overtime period, but a quarter by its. Well, they could rebrand the novel with a new title. That would be more acceptable at this point. All right. Other news.

Let's move now to another team in the NFC East, the Dallas Cowboys, who in true Cowboys fashion, they just can't let go. They're guys. They don't even know how to do it, it seems, because Jason Garrett, who everyone assumes is out as Cowboys coach after an 8-N-8 season that was deeply disappointing. Jason Garrett, excuse me, Jared Jones gave an endless press conference late last night. No announcement then. We go all through Monday today.

No announcement today. The day has included exit interviews for players, a team meeting that followed. Jane Slater reports that Garrett used phrases that suggested a permanent departure rather than a mere end to another season. Garrett later met with Jera and Stephen Jones, the vice president for roughly an hour. That said, still, Greg, nothing to report as of right now. How could they meet for an hour and it not happen? It's like only Jerry Jones, like what he was like talking about Arkansas football and all the good times that they had. It's like he was waiting for Garrett to fire himself because he didn't want to do it.

Doesn't he just want to own the Tuesday news cycle because all these other teams have a piece of the pie today? We can talk about it as if it's happened because it's happening and they're apparently orchestrating however they want it to be played out with a press conference or whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm more curious about who's next and Jerry Jones said he's not worried about what other teams are doing and he hinted. that who he's interested in, those names aren't on these lists. And so you've also seen some speculation. Could Mike Zimmer be someone that he goes after? Ian Rapport threw that out.

Mike Floreo threw that out. There's some big-name college coaches. Bob Stoops has been whispered about maybe Urban Meyer. So it seems like those are the kind of big fish that Jones might be going for. Vikings have to make a decision on Zimmer, whose contract is only through 2020. So they make a decision on him. season and something tells me they do not want to leave they don't want to lose kevin

stefansky who was a big candidate with the browns last year and is getting interest again so i think zimmer is interesting what's going to happen especially if they lose if they lose to the saints and the defense doesn't play well it's three straight losses it's tricky though because they've had one losing season out of six i mean he has five winning seasons ron rivera has three and Ron Rivera's talked about, you know, like he's in the next Vince Mardi. Yes, he is. Where's that 15 and one Mike Zimmer season at Ron Rivera? I got you.

I got you. It speaks to the madness of covering the Cowboys, Clarence Hill, who works down there. He was live tweeting like everyone else down there, a press conference that Gerard was holding. I feel like it had to be around midnight central time. And here's just a snapshot of when any sane person wants to know is Jason Garrett fired or not. And instead, he's opining, Jara, on how Dak Prescott and Miss Tony Romo's passing record mark for a single season by one yard. And here's the quote, it really breaks my heart that Dak didn't get that record by what? A yard.

A yard? I would have gone out there, run around for him and at that time to get that yard. He deserves that. And I like the boy who's got the record. Why don't we talking about this? Sometimes there are there are whiskeys involved. Why are we talking about this? In other coaching limbo news, Doug Morone, still the coach of the Jaguars.

So a brief timeline here, Tom Coughlin, the football czar, gets canned about seven to ten days ago. The assumption is that Morone's going to go, but then some reports are bubbling that he could perhaps survive. Then ESPN reports that, in fact, Morone had been told already that he was fired and he would finish out the season and then be gone. that was disputed and then ultimately proven to be false because Morone still is employed as of now with the Jaguars. And there is apparently a meeting scheduled between Marone and Shot Khan at some point this week. Tuesday.

Yeah, tomorrow. Ostensibly to finally settle his fate to which I say Chris Wessling, he better be staying at this point. I'm not saying it's the right move. But like what are we doing here? While all the other teams looking for a head coach are whining, and dining and pursuing the top options. You shouldn't be pussyfooting here.

Make a decision. Esther, get off the pot. Well, Mike Garifolo said it's about a 50-50 chance, and I think it might be higher than that because it seems like Tony Khan, a friend of the show, we've had him on before, seems like a nice guy, taking on more responsibility on the football side

and making these decisions, and maybe that's part of the holdup is there's change in responsibilities there. Tony Khan, allegedly, is a big fan. of Doug Maron. And a big fan of David Caldwell, I would imagine. David Caldwell is also safe, of course. What role he has in the organization, that could shift.

But I guess, yeah, Greg, does it feel to you now that Marone is going to be back? To me, it just seems like Tom Coughlin ended up being the big fall guy at the end of the day here. Yeah, I think that would be a mistake, but I guess I'll wait to find out. All right. In other news, what do we have, Panthers candidates? who's jumping out right in that search to replace Ronner Bear. It's not Perry Fuel, I can tell you that. Well, they've interviewed Mike McCarthy twice now.

Right, and supposedly it went very well. Matt Rule is also very high on their list, according to Rappsheet, who also mentioned Josh McDaniels and Eric B. Enemy. Yeah, they asked for permission for McDaniels. Rule is interesting because I think they still have a game. They have a bull game. He says he's going on vacation after that. with his wife and he's not taking any interviews until he's back from vacation so if playing a little hard to get like it and and he said yeah if if if it doesn't work out then then he's fine with that uh rule by the way Bob Bates DDS my father-in-law good husband move by the way

prioritized yes well and then publicize it so you look all you look you just look like an excellent family man so Bob Bates as good DDS is as great point is as plugged in on bail or as anyone and he is going to be furious of Rule leaves. Now he's not a man that gets furious, but he will be very unhappy because what Rule is done there... Your father-in-law. Yes. It is not... Well, my father-in-law hasn't built this Baylor program, but what Rule

did with Baylor after they had their scandal, it doesn't touch what happened with Bill O'Brien at Penn State, but he quickly rebuilt Baylor back into a powerhouse and he's young and he's exactly a type of hot-shot college coach that you

think is going to get plucked. And he was open, it seemed, to go to the Jets last year, and the Jets failed to seal the deal. Well, they wouldn't allow him to pick his own staff, which I would say ultimately if he feels like a match for the Giants. And it's hard to see the Jets always get put in these situations. But if he were to go to New York and completely raise the Giants from the middle of the earth, well, that is a tough look for the Jets who simply wouldn't allow him to pick his own assistance. Although maybe that's a point to why Gettelman could be a liability.

You know, like, what if Matt Rule isn't feeling that partnership? But they've worked together before and know each other. So there is, they were saying it out. Let's move on. The Dolphins make a move on Bright Horizons Monday, parting ways with two of their coaches on Ryan Flores' staff, including their offensive coordinator, an Irishman, Chad O'Shea, out after one season.

And the first instinct is, well, what are you talking? by why would you do that ryan fitzpatrick you know he taught he turned water into wine down there this year but as we pointed out on the sunday week 17 recap show which we heartily endorse and suggest you check out even though it landed not 18 hours ago um Fitzpatrick just made a lot of that magic happen on his own and the offensive line coach also got fired the offensive line was a turn style and to Fitzpatrick's credit west he just found ways to stay on his feet and make plays all year I think that's a good way to put it that Fitzpatrick's style This is a good point by me

Absolutely I think Greg should update the standings there That was a good point I mean Ricky is in charge of this I just She's typing furiously that's been recorded I believe I mean maybe my idea for this entire bit That could be considered as a good as a good one That was right I mean anytime you can just You know throw and tack on more work onto our producer

While she's trying to do seven other things at the same time She loves it It's more air time You'll undoubtedly win this contest If Fitz is out there playing Sandlot ball, or as our friend Patrick Claibon would say, going John Wick on the Patriots, how much credit does the offensive coordinator get? And I know they had just a brutal running attack, but they also had Mark Walton who looked like a keeper for a minute until he ran afoul of the law again.

And I don't know if Chad O'Shea should be blamed for that, but there's obviously something going on behind the scenes that Brian Flores wasn't happy. Right. They've worked together for a long time. knew each other forever in New England. So my guess is it's less about production and more about either they already, he knows who he wants to hire, that would be my guess. Or just, you Chattachay's never had that role before and Flores is making the decision that

that's not, even though he likes him personally, like that's not the guy he wants for one. Or Belichick on the phone and said, you fire that man now because we're about to lose Josh McDaniels and I'm taking him back onto our staff. I mean, this really goes against your whole Trojan horse thing that they went up there and beat the Patriots, though, kind of... Well, that's why now it's... It was a thorny phone call, not a pleasant one. For all the Fitzmagic sizzle in Miami,

they finished 27th in total yards, averaging just north of 300 a game. And the offensive line coach that was let go is Dave de Gugliamo... Gugs. Why is that name familiar that I cannot pronounce? He keeps getting fired. He's got fired by the Patriots before, you know,

he was the guy who replaced... He was with the Jets at one point, too. So he's been around. But he... So Scarnet. Recky retired, they brought in googs and then canned googues and brought back Skarnacki. That's right.

Tom Googlyat is still my favorite gooks. He's the guy after the guy and the guy before the guy. Yeah. In this case, whatever, he's the guy you don't want to be. Moving on the brownies, the brownies. They are taking a more measured approach to their head coaching search, digging through a bunch of options. Mike McCarthy is now connected to the team,

which I am on record saying that feels like. A sensible match, though everyone else seems to hate Mike McCarthy. Josh McDaniels connected to the Panthers. Greg Roman is connected to the Browns. All those names are all to the Browns. Robert Salah. Robert Salah. I'm going to throw out another one I saw that happened on air.

Connected to both teams. Connected to the Brown's Jason Garrett. Well, connected in what sense? Someone put that out there's actual information? Yeah, thought it might be someone that they want. I think he fits what they, now, you know, they've had every type of head coach in the book, but now we want an experienced head coach. So they're going to go get an experienced head coach.

It's also the famous, you want the disciplinarian, then you want the players coach. Right. Disciplinary, players coach. Oh, my God. I admit, I am beyond exhausted. I was never a fan. I was never a huge fan of McCarthy, but maybe it's this PR work he's done. I don't know.

It's pretty cool, that. He's like into analytics and stuff. He wants to update. I got a video of my quarterback's feet. He wants to update his offense. I just feel like the Browns keep having total strikeouts, and he would be like a single up the middle. And so that is not bad, Mike McCarthy.

I feel like Mike McCarthy is one young GZ viral video away from being like the hottest candidate out there. The PR campaign has worked. The one thing that, like, with Josh McDaniels, and I think I kind of feel like Josh McDaniels is who they want, because they've wanted him before. They want leadership. Whatever. You would feel differently about Josh McDaniels, but there are a lot of people saying that the Browns

are into the Josh McDaniels experience and that he would want to bring the infamous Nick Casario with him, not the pastor who's down in Houston, but the Patriots Nick Casario, and John Dorsey sits right in the way of that. So I think that Dorsey is another guy that you got to, whoever they bring in has to deal with the Dorsey experience at the same time.

It's completely muddled. All right, let's go through some sound bites from Exit, Interview, Monday. Monday, no, that's the name of my children's day here. New Horizons. They both sound like rehab facilities, but that's fine. They are. Anyway, here's speaking of the Brown's Jarvis Landry, who didn't waste any time sounding off on why he thought that Freddie Kitchens wasn't the right guy.

There are always times in seasons where things happen. You know, guys get hurt, off the field issues, you know, a bunch of different things happen, you know, in crucial points in the game, breaking points of the game, being able to hold your composure, being able to, you know, talk to each other, treat everybody in respect, you know, I just think at times, you know, there was a lack thereof. There's just opportunities in games where, you know, I know on the outside, on the outside that we could have taken advantage of, you know, teams, you know, weaknesses, you know, and that we did in. And, you know, we just didn't really, just didn't really know what the plan was or what we were trying to do. I don't think we ever really found our identity. That is quite a take-down of the Freddie Kitchens' experience.

I mean, Mark's been on this corner for a while. They've been taking them down on the sidelines. Like, you can basically tell what's going on. They orchestrated, not that he was going to necessarily stay or not, They essentially, it was like a coup. How much more can you do than telling, you know, the other teams to come get you? Outside of Eric Mangini and, you know, Joe Thomas and Andrew Hawkins told a story of the team kind of throwing a party when Eric Mangini was released. But, you know, honestly, that didn't happen the same way with Hugh Jackson.

There were a lot of players that liked the man. And whether or not the experience was good, obviously it wasn't. But you just couldn't find a Browns player that really went to bat for Freddie Kitchens in the past 24 hours. Which kind of flies in the face of... What about Baker? Because I haven't heard from him. Baker just sort of threw it into the, you know, it's not my decision kind of thing, which is, you know, Baker's someone that's going to go out and back someone if he feels that way. And, of course, as the story goes, it was Baker that helped get Freddie Kitchens hired.

I wonder how their relationship... I mean, to Baker's credit, sometimes he doesn't know what to shut up. He never kind of came out and said anything that made things even worse for kitchens. Baker never really spoke out. I think this will be one case. where as more reporting comes out in the next week, there was another, I saw a source that talked about that the team had never been so befuddled

by a lack of direction when it came to organize game day management and preparation week to week. And it showed on the field. And I think that by the end of the year, veterans who had been around better coaching were just starting to lose it. And so the right choice was made. I mean, we all get that Freddie Kitchen seems like a dude

you want to go hang out with for a weekend, to go on a road trip with, but not necessarily game plan for the pay. Patriots. Two more points Landry made. There was too much on the head coach's plate, and this was a bone of contention that we brought up a few times. Why is Todd Monkin not getting a chance to call the offense instead of Freddie Kitchens?

And the other point was Landry said we relied too much on plays and not players. So Freddie Kitchens wanted to go with his offense instead of tailoring it towards the skills of his players. Did the whole staff get let go? Mocken was a hot name last year on the market. It's in process, but they weren't immediately fired. They can look for jobs, as have 4,000 billion other assistance in Cleveland. All right. Let's move on.

John Elway. You know, John needed the second half. He really did. He's the general manager, the czar in Denver, and... This one's for John. I've heard this. This one's for John. This one's for John.

This one's for John. This one's for John. John and that one's for John this one's for John oh yeah also that one's for John so not surprising not surprising we didn't laugh at the end we didn't get the Sydney version I always thought that's beautiful not a surprise uh yes John Elway yes the Broncos finished six and two to finish seven and nine uh drew Locke wins four of his five starts at quarterback. And Elway was asked, hey, with this nice start from your rookie second round pick,

does that change your approach? Are you going to be looking to bring in competition for the kid entering 2020? And Elway was pretty strong on it. Well, I mean, I don't see any options right now. I mean, obviously he finished and did a heck of a job. He won four out of five games and played well. But he still has a long way to go. He's got a lot of work to do.

But we're excited about where Drew is. And so, you know, don't like to show her hand, but I think it's unrealistic to say that we're going a different direction. I think it's an upset that in this room there's someone that is more antagonistic to John Elway than I am. Who's that, Dan? I mean, it's just, you know. Barbaro man's not a put down. Well, I mean, I witnessed other things happening during that.

There's legit antagonism there. I miss that. I like that he was like, I didn't want to show our hand. But yeah, it's definitely Drew Locke. Why even say it? I want to show my hand. Just show your hand. It's fine.

Who needs, you know why? He can't help himself because who needs. He loves Drew La. Who needs a W at the quarterback position more than Elway. And if he gets a chance to take an offseason long victory lap, even if it's built on perhaps a house of cards, has Drewlock really shown us that much. Elway's smart. He gets it.

He's going to use this off season to show that, yeah, maybe I'm not so bad at this. bozos. Well, like Greg mentioned on the last show, what you do for the last five, six weeks of the season has no more bearing on the future than what you did for the first six weeks of the season. I don't want Drew Locke to be overrated. I don't want him to fail. I just feel like the Broncos are putting too much stock in the last six games as far as expectations for next year. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, that, it was pretty telling. I think maybe they sign a veteran backup, but it does sound like Drew Locke's the guy. Whereas if you, you compare his comments to how Anthony Lynn talked about Philip Rivers on Monday.

He was, you know, he's very positive. Why wouldn't you want a quarterback like that? A lot of great qualities, but stopped short. And then John Gruden especially stopping short of promising that Derek Carr was going to be his quarterback, saying, look, he improved a lot. The stats went up. We got better, but I'm not going to make any promises right now. I think that shows the differences between those three teams in that division,

that those teams are looking for options, probably the Chargers most aggressively, Raiders in the middle, and the Broncos at the end. I think a Raiders option could be Philip Rivers down the road. Ooh, I like that. I could see that. I don't know if it would work, but I could see it happening. Everyone's like, oh, John Gruden wants a young guy. John Gruden always wanted an old guy.

That's who he always signs. Rich Gannon, you know, Jeff Garcia, Brian Greasy, like every old guy he could find. Because those are the guys that understand. his offense and run it how he wants it. I could see. Could Phil Rivers football van drive to the desert and back that many times? I mean, Philip Rivers in Las Vegas do not feel like a match.

It's like a 45-minute plane ride, though. No, 45-minute plane ride, oh, it kind of works. In other news, Bruce Ariens gave his end-of-season presser. Is he flying to practice every day on a plane? No, but you go home for, like, Friday nights and stuff. Quarterbacks have done that. You go home Friday nights. He was like, oh, I'm the assistant coach of the soccer team.

Hey, here I'm just dad. Really breaking film, I'm sure. There, I'm your QB1. Here, I'm just dad. Bruce Ariens is still salty about his quarterback. He was salty as we talked about on Sunday night. He's salty as we talk on Monday because, you know, his quarterback is killing him. It literally could be killing Bruce Ariens if you see his face.

and how red he's getting because he just can't deal with the swashbuckling cubie who cannot stop turning the ball over 30 interceptions give me a break with this swashbuckling business the pick six to end the season uh on monday he was asked bruce ariens was if someone other than james winston who winson of course his contract set to expire in march someone other than james winston uh could handle quarterback duties for the bucks in 2020 with another quarterback oh yeah we can win with this one we can win with another one, too. These guys, and he's sending, he's sending a message to James

that he is, he's P-Oed. He was asked about the evaluation process, and his answer was, the first question is, what's behind door number two? As in, what are my other options at quarterback? And then he disclosed that James Winston is nearsighted. He can't see the scoreboard, but he can see the guys in front of him. That was a joke.

I mean, right? Are you sure? That was a joke. Are you sure? It was pretty great. That would explain a lot. I mean, it's a great Aryan's line. He can't see the scoreboard.

He doesn't, you know, he's hurting our team. What if he showed up at training camp with, like, Rick Bond glasses that completely correct his vision? And he's like Steve Young crossed with Dan Marino. Well, the reason why I took it seriously is he was specifically about Winston's vision issues. One of our favorite Twitter follows. That boy wolf has had this theory forever that James Winston just needs context. I think that Bruce Aaron. was absolute, first of all, that interception might change how their offseason goes.

If they were feeling good off of an overtime win, I feel like none of the, yeah, these quotes wouldn't be happening. But I also think he was responding because he knows he has a contract negotiation that's probably already annoying him. And he probably heard what James Winston said in his press conference, and he was, like, responding to James Winston on Monday. Here's what James said. We all know.

come on i guess we know what we got to fix there's no reason for me to be specific you look at my numbers i'm i'm balling you know i got to stop giving the ball to the other team all right like this it's not a trick question i think you're exactly right i think i'm balled there was more to it too he was like check the stats he said like check the digits something something like i think bruce arians went into that press conference ticked off about that comment and going, does this guy really think he's getting $30 million a year? Well, that's the only way you throw 30 touchdowns

and 30 interceptions if you have that attitude. You know what I mean? Oh, of course. Bruce Ariens is not going to be coaching for the next 17 years. So it's like, do you want to go out with James Winston or do you want to find something better when there are a lot of quarterbacks out there? Winston reminds you. He's a little like Ryan Fitzpatrick,

except he just was taken number one overall. Right. All right. And finally, in the news Adam Gase wrapped up his regular season conversation with the media

with a press conference he was asked if Levion Bell who's coming off really a dreadful first season with the Jets he never had a 20-yard run this year how about that averaged I believe 3.3 yards for carry

was not all his fault but certainly some of it is Bell just maybe not being the guy who was with the Steelers after that one-year layoff The Jets are really locked into another year with Bell money-wise unless they decide to take a real hit or can move him via trade. Gase was asked if he saw or if he wanted Lev Bell on the team in 2020, and this is what he said.

Do you want him back and you're starting by back in 2020? He's under contract for three more years. You can ask Joe tomorrow. Do you want him? You can ask Joe tomorrow. I'm not the personnel. I'm not the personal. all right so a couple things to unpack here one uh famously gase was not on board with the signing

of lev bell mike mcagnan uh with uh ownership uh pushing for it as well made the move and it got out that gase didn't want belt getting them off on the wrong foot gays then sits out a lot of the voluntary uh work uh with the team after the one year layoff which i think led to a little more heat then the really bad season. So you can understand why Gase might not want this guy back on the team. However, this is another example to me of why Adam Gase is just not a good fit in the New York market. And I'll tell you why is that he can easily just give a diplomatic answer here, say, who wouldn't want to have Lev Bell back?

I know the numbers didn't say it this year, but he did a lot of good things for us. And we hope to work together and do something. much better next season. He could have done that, and it's not like that. None of this is being talked about. But I don't think he's able to do that. And I also wonder, Manish Mehta, who I brought up last week, who wrote the hit piece about Gase,

only caring about money or whatever that was last week. That was the one where he, like, he kidnaps orphans and, like, throws him in the trash on Christmas Eve. Yeah, that was, yeah, that's... It came out on Christmas Eve. He asked that question as well. And I just wonder, and some of the beat writers connected, the dots on this too, if

Gase, because he's so furious that Mnich would do that to him, was being short with him and gave him clipped answers and said, go get it from somebody else. Go get it from the GM. Not realizing, not being savvy enough in the big chair to realize that you could have your

issue with Mnich, but when you answer like that, people are going to read it in a different way. And it's just the type of stuff that I think he has to learn to have any chance of survival. Except I mean that it's a fair question based on what Gase has, you know, Gase has come out and supported Bell throughout the season two.

And, you know, when you dig into it a little bit more, if you look at everything he's said, there's been a pretty balanced take on Levy on Bell, except that I'm not sure I really buy or believe anything Adam Gase says. And as someone who wears, like, their heart on their sleeve and sometimes can't hide their own emotions, I can get that side of Gase, but you got to be winning to be treating people this way

and treating the media this way and allowing these clips to filter out and take over Twitter for five or six hours. I agree with you. Well, I know, I'm not battling you, but I'm saying it's like it's, it is a super toxic way to kick off the off season. It's such an easy way to avoid this. And he has not yet learned how to avoid these types of things.

Do we think he's going to learn this suddenly? It feels like a people. We used to talk about, we used to talk about his press conferences in Miami. More importantly, in terms of treating people, it's how you're treating Levyon Bell. I mean, Levyon Bell is not it. He shouldn't be on the team. Levyon Bell does not have it. I mean, he had a million chances to have those 20-yard runs.

He still has those great instincts where it's in his body, but it's not there. I mean, they should move on from Levy & Bell. That is a separate issue. But when you're a player on the team who's friends with Levy & Bell and like how he's approached things or if you're players who might want to join the team, you don't want to see your coach talking about. Do you think there was a group text chain with some of those players? What the hell is wrong with this guy?

Absolutely there was. Robbie Anderson can't wait to get out of there. I mean, that is a issue with building your team, and it's probably driving Joe Douglas nuts. Somebody can go pay Robbie Anderson $15 million. That's fine, but it's another player that ends up. But it's another player with a fractured relationship with the coach. It's just a little concerning.

Anderson doesn't have a fractured relationship. I think he doesn't seem to be glowing. You call it the big chair, Dan, and there's only 32 of these. It just surprises me. As much as it surprised me that Freddie Kitchen's got a job in 2019, for the all shucks kind of like good old boy persona he has you have to have communication skills you have to have emotional stability you have to have public relations to be an NFL head coach and I don't know how Adam Gays got hired the first time much less the second time with

those issues a lot of people say Peyton Manning the power of Peyton Manning is a big thing with his career anyway before we go we got we got an update we got an update And now, another edition of Keeping Up with Bowringer. Sounds like New Horizons music. Bengals, tight end. Moreet's Bo Ringer. He's staying in Cincinnati. He signed a reserve future contract with the Bengals on Monday.

He spent the second consecutive season on the team's practice squad and is set to remain there for. yet another season. No. The German born tight end. Still looking to make his NFL debut since being drafted in the sixth round by the Minnesota Vikings in the 2016 draft. Wow. Look, if you're going to go 16 weeks only using 52 of your 53 roster spots because you're carrying A.J. Green,

the least thing you can do for Maritz is give up one of your, you know, reserve contract slots for the offseat. It's well said. It's got a, he's going to write a beautiful. ending to this story that proves all the skeptics in this room wrong mobo nation was really excited about this news i saw the mobile lies onto an actual roster i saw our friend i saw our friend henry hodson driving into work and he he immediately stopped he took out his phone he showed me the news update and the excitement in his face mobo carries a lot of hopes and dreams um not just in this country but especially in germany well henry does he carry footballs

Henry gets a 7.5% cut of any money that Mobo makes on the said practice squad. And Roger Goodell's job. I have that on good. He's locked on the squad. He can't even be activated for a whole other year. No, no, no, no. The reserve future contract is just basically your sign-in-practice squad players. But this year, he was at one point he was stuck on the prep.

He has an office-season contract. He has an off-season contract, like basically all the players that are invited to training camp. And he's on the 90-man roster. and then they'll decide what to do it. Remember when Dionne Lewis was playing really well for the Patriots? They signed him by way of reserve future contract. It's just a way of adding practice squad guys to your restaurant. I wish him just simply the best.

And that was another edition of Keeping Up with Bo. One of the best editions. I thought it was a meeting. Mobilize, son. A ten-pole moment for him. Got to get going. The round of the NFL show, a reminder, Friday, 6 p.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. Pacific on NFL Network, they actually gave us a show. They did not want to do this.

But we just, through the sheer power, and this is, there's some unsolicited advice. We get this a lot, actually. People, how do you make it in the business? How do you build a career in sports? I will tell you one of the secrets. And I'm not even joking. And it carries on, not just in sports, but in any realm of profession. you choose just stay in the picture yep it's good crank stay in the picture and opportunities will find you don't leave don't leave don't say oh well I'm out of time because if you just stick around

long enough one day there'll be executives walking around the building and they're like wait we need to fill that three o'clock slot is anyone around and there we are squirts we were just sitting there that day. They tapped this on the shoulder. That's exactly how I played on. A guy chomping a giant cigar, like a 500-pound man from the third floor. Still a ton of those guys around here and say, hey, you, whippersnappers, you got your own show. Friday. That guy's still here.

6 p.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. Pacific around the NFL show. Also, yes, our Miami Improb live show, Super Bowl week, that's going to be fun. The Thursday before the Super Bowl will have that live show. So check it out on Miami Improb.com. slash events and get tickets and join us. It will be a lot of fun. We'll be back on Thursday with our wild card weekend preview of four big games. Don't forget the big reveal at the end of this show.

Yeah, I have a list. It's time for Erica Tamposi. No, we don't need a list. Is it a power reggings or like what is it? No, yeah, I have a list of like the nominees. How long's a list? It's like quick. It can only be four.

The list of the best point in the podcast is Greg letting me pick the best. point of the podcast i also thought the best point was me asking mark about mcdaniels to the browns nice job um i also out of place at the time but now i realized you just wanted to get a point that you could put on the list of points right um but then i have two little sub things that's gregg pointing out that dan calls him the NFL network historian which was like a way to brag by putting it on dan and then dan brought it back and was like oh remember i was on the record for mccarthy like you kind of like did that did it bad a lot of bragging west said something about Nero, I wrote that down, literally something about Nero.

Someone said something about Fitzpatrick's style. I mean, the segment is not points that we've made in the show. No, no, no, these are the best. It's just choosing one. Okay, so also the best point in the podcast was what I thought to myself that since Cliff Kingsbury did like a pretty decent job as a head coach, that maybe that persuaded the league to like look more into college coaches because we've been looking into more college coaches than ever before on this.

You said that? No, I thought to myself. The New Horizons. As if this segment could have ended any other way. Right. It was a smart move. Wait a minute. If I heard a guarantee we never do the segment again.

Well, wait a minute. That was the intention. It's going to be a reoccurring thing. And the winner of... I told you she loved it. The winner of the best point of the podcast was Greg's throat noise. Oh, no. That's a fair.

It's a good choice. Erica, can we hear that? There it is. I'll never forget it. It's been a long. What is that? It's been a long day. You knew it was bad when he started deflecting.

He was like, oh, what about what's his jacket? It's hitting the microphone. Hey, I'm tucking my jacket in. Greg's over there making fish noise. I was trying to get your attention. Got the creature of the Black Lagoon in the studio. He's like, yeah, there's a lot of ambient noise in this studio. It's like it came from your throat.

Poor Greg. We've all done it. But with these mics and these cans, it was picked up. Oh, it was aggressive. I don't even remember it. You have to go see a doctor immediately. I blacked out. If I ever listen to this show, it would be painful.

Let's go. We've got to get out of here. Please. Another new horizon. Our first group trip to the hospital. Dan Hansis, signing off for Quiet Storm. You can go home. The mailman, the old boss, Rick Hollywood, behind the glass.

Till Thursday. Thank you. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet.

We've got the insight to help you crush. your opponents listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Toyota the official automotive partner of the NFL visit toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more this is an iHeart podcast