NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - New Horizons Monday - Zimmer, Judge and Flores Fired

Episode Date: January 12, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal recap all of the firings and potential hirings from ~New Horizons Monday~. The heroes check in on their season long Go Get My Lunch props. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Let's not. Let's not start. Welcome to the Around the NFL podcast. I'm Dan Hansis. Virtual Room Heroes. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal, here we are. Technically, it's Tuesday, but we are here to break down Black Monday. No, not Black Monday.

Ricky, it's New Horizons Monday. Because when God closes the door, pops open a window in a big spot. Right, Sessler? You're a man that knows the scripture. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's so true. And I cannot think of really anything in life where it applies more accurately than to this episode and what we're about to discuss. Is that what you were looking for? I just trying to. I was. Well, that was that was Greg's turn to come in with something snarky, a little murthy tone. But he's, he's punting on the discussion. I like to back to the old deucer. No, I'd like to keep it fresh, not be too predictable and just see what happens. I knew.

Dan would be surprised there. I wanted to see where the conversation go. I thought Mark also said it so well. Sometimes you can't top it and you have nothing more to add. You know what I mean? Like Mark really set the tone. Greg, that said when you, in a audio show, when you surprise us by not talking and it leaves like a five or six minutes. We're talking shortly.

Okay, but I'm annoyed with Greg. That's maybe not maximizing the experience. I feel like Mark should be a coach, or a head coach. Mark should be David Cully because I feel like Mark's dream job would be to get a job like David Cully that pays you potentially, yeah, I'm going to just guess three million. Five times more, maybe 10 times more than he's ever made in a long, you know, good career per year. And then lose that job, but have that contract guaranteed for four more years after that. This is where you need to head.

You can be a head coach of the Texas. Do you think that I'd get real busy body-like and go find like another coaching job that, you know, months later on someone else's staff just for the love of the game? Absolutely not. No. You would have had your agent actually write it into the contract that it's not like one of those matching things, that it would be working for free if you had to go elsewhere just to prevent yourself from even taking any heat from chilling for four years.

Bingo. We have a good friend who, through work, ended up having a legitimate friendship with Jim Tom Sulla, formerly of the 49ers. He of the one and done, he's, you know, we call it a Cully, although we don't know that for sure yet. But absolutely, everything you guys are saying checks out. So Tom Sulla, if you remember, I think he was maybe before Chip Kelly, maybe he was after Chip Kelly, He was one of them during San Francisco's down period post Jim Harbaugh. And same thing.

Like he was a regular dude, a real nice guy. Maybe not somebody you would think was a real head coach material in the NFL. But he got in the big chair, got canned after a year, but got paid millions for the next four years and just like raised his kids with his wife and probably bought a nice summer home on the vineyard next to Greg's place. And just in general, enjoyed life. Like, I think if we could somehow get into that guaranteed money in the pocket. podcast game, then get our asses canned, I think it could work out. It's all about what's baked into the contract in terms of what can be negated for conduct reasons, really.

It's the ideal blueprint at this stage in our lives, too, where, you know, I know everyone's working very hard, but at some point you start to think, like, I like to do less, maybe. Yeah, what's the easy way out? Right. Right. Although Tamsula was back on the sideline pretty quick. I know he had a year off, but then he had a chance to work for the Jay Gruden, Washington football team, you know, different name back then when you have a chance to work with a great

organization like that, you just got to step back in. So it's different for everyone. Guy loves ball. What can I say? All right, today we will get into all the updates. Of course, six coaches out of work after the 2021 season now has concluded. We'll kind of check in on each of those teams and where they're at. We mentioned the Texans. That's a situation where the coach is still there, but perhaps not. We have another situation like that with the New York Giants. So we're going to kind of get into all of that. And that will be today's program.

Before we do, though, I do want to, and I don't want to get us off track because I don't, I don't want another two and a half hour podcast. But I do want to check in on something that's happening internally at the company. And to do that, I have to reach out to someone on the news desk. that can shine a light on something that I've been tracking very closely. So I'm going to make a phone call right now, if you guys don't mind. Be our guest. Okay.

This is why Dan wanted to get the show going. Can you guys hear that? Yeah. Yes. NFL Network, this is David. Hey, Dave, what's up? It's Dan from ATN. What's up?

Oh, hey, how you doing, man? Good, good, good. How's everything? It's going great, you know, just dealing with the end of the season, carrying up in playoffs, you know the drill. Absolutely, absolutely. So I know what is your position right now in the newsroom? I know you've kind of gone up the ranks in the years that we've worked together. Where are you at?

Of course. I'm happy to share that info. I'm currently being your editor and manager of digital news. All right, good, good, good. Because I noticed I wanted to bring something up to you. that that I don't know um I don't know if this is the forum for it but I'm going to do it anyway and then you tell me uh I just want your honest feedback on it we've been getting uh and I want to I don't want to reveal the who's sending these emails but we've been getting multiple emails um in the NFL media inbox uh from a certain member of the news team

uh on camera um about so I'm just going to read the email a little bit here it says hello all uh subject line Nathan Hackett. Hello, all. We once again just tweeted a Nathaniel Hackett headline with a photo of not Nathaniel Hackett. This is at least the third time it has happened recently. I understand these photos are surely mislabeled by AP or Getty or whoever provides them, but considering this guy may be a head coach soon, can everyone just please look at some photos of the real Nathaniel Hackett and familiarize yourselves with his face? He's pretty recognizable. So I just want to, I know you just, you labeled yourself as high up within the operation and you are CCed on this

email. I'm curious, your official stance on this. And if this was taking care of, because this was sent at 438 a.m. Pacific time, have you finally taken care of this? Because according to this individual, this is at least the third time. This has happened recently. It's been rectified. And I don't want to, obviously, as a position of leadership, I don't, I'm not going to really get into many details over what exactly. happen ultimately is my responsibility that this happens and also just speaking personally as someone who's bald i can understand the frustration of being confused for other bald people so i i i like to personally apologize to nathaniel hackett and anyone associated with him for this mistake well how about the

the person that sent out this email that apparently had to do it three times to get a fairly simple issue rectified again i don't think it's really appropriate to like really like discuss the or workings of what happens on the news desk. I just know that he knows that we do a lot and it's it's tough, you know, in this 24-7 business, especially with all this coachingers we're trying to keep track of. I think the person who expressed the concern about this understands that their voice was heard and that it's been something that's been discussed. Right, but has the Packers voice been heard here?

Because, you know, in that email it says they were complaining, they were noticing this. And when you think about the NFL as in general, Ely, like, who is more, who is more recognizable than Nathaniel Hackett? That's what I'm saying. That's a great question, Greg. And I know, it's just, again, like I said, it's everyone knows who Nathaniel Hackett looks like. And he's one of the most recognizable faces in the NFL, like you said. And it's on us to do a better job for a future potential head coach out there to make sure he gets the recognition that he needs from our Twitter account. All right.

Well, it looks like you handled it. maybe not in quite the efficient manner that some would hope, but you got the job done. What is going on in your personal life? It is very difficult to be a single man in Los Angeles, always, but certainly during COVID, even worse. Have you found the one yet, Dave? I know there are a lot of people that know you on the show going back years now that are wondering, has Dave found the one? Is he settling down?

He's in his 30s now. Where are we at? Well, was that more of like a general assumption that I'm currently single, or was that you just trying to fish and trying to – Well, yes, it was. I'd like to address that first. That's a general assumption. Okay. Well, I am so that you're correct there.

You know, 2021 had its ups and downs. Obviously, I can't. Like, I mean, the pandemic, it's tough out there. It's, you know, it's tough to meet people right now. So, but we have a strong belief that 2022 will be. All right, good, Dave. We've got to get going, Dave. Okay, let's move on.

Is that it? Yeah, did you have anything else you wanted to add? I just want to say, like, I just finished, I think, hour five of the 18 recap pod. Just, you guys are doing great work there. I think, like, you might have needed more time for your analysis, but really looking forward to what you can do next week. All right. Message sent. He's going to be our boss one day, so we've got to respect the man.

Dave Ely, thank you for the update. Thank you for taking care of the Hackett situation, as we call it. All right, thanks. All right, take care. Please, Ely, talking about editing for content. How about let's trim up those What We Learned Oh

Russian novels Wow Wow They've become more condensed Greg Just to let you know Okay What a method actor

What an impressive What an impressive executive Ely has become I remember on the first week That I met him He announced to me That Bounty Gate Would be

Essentially meaningless Within a couple of weeks So I see This is a person That's grown in many ways Well his news instincts obviously have evolved and matured as he's done the same. So I just hope he finds the one and he's not left holding that champagne bottle alone too much longer. What if all that we're

going through? Corona, insane weather events, general lack of peace in the world does hinge on David Ely finding a significant other. I just feel like it was such a safe assumption that he was single, but like, what if Dave could change the world by finding love? So Dave, he needs to find a woman and they need to produce a spawn because that spawn will either cure coronavirus or have some type of antibody that can then be harvested to save the world, basically. I buy it. In this workspace, yeah. I could totally see it. I can totally see it. I think Dave has something. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. Or his, you know, progeny. All right. What hour are we in on the show

right now. Let's get to the news. On New Horizons, Tuesday. All right, let's get into the news. The coaching carousel is spinning and it has thrown off Joe Judge. The latest news, the latest firing in the NFL, the seventh coach now to not make it through 2021 or into 2022 is the New York Giants. uh coach who was dismissed tuesday after two losing seasons with the team the move comes a day after general manager dave gettelman retired after four years on the job but that's what they're calling it here is a statement here's the miss of rickie from giant's coloner john mara steve that's steve tish and i both believe it is in the best interest of our franchise to move in another direction we met with joe yesterday afternoon to discuss the state of the team I met again with Joe this afternoon, and it was during that conversation, I informed Joe of our decision.

We appreciate Joe's efforts on behalf of the organization. I said before the season started that I wanted to feel good about the direction we were headed when we played our last game of the season. Unfortunately, I cannot make that statement, which is why we have made this decision. We will hire a GM, and that person will lead the effort to hire a new coach. All right. So, end quote. Greg, this is sensible for the giants who were putting themselves into a really tricky gray area if they were trying to keep judge, bring in a GM.

Now they have cleaned the slate. And if any organization right now needs to clean the slate and clean the decks and clear the decks, it's the giants. Yeah, I think it's an about face that makes sense. Don't get stuck in a previous take you had when information has come up that allows you to realize it's a bad take. And the take for Mara was we keep cycling through these coaches. I regretted getting rid of McAdoo so quickly. He said that publicly, like during the season especially, right after he made the playoffs. And he wanted to keep Joe Judge, obviously.

As recently as the day after Christmas, ESPN reported Judge and Daniel Jones will be back. And it made it clear the sources were from ownership. And that they probably will make a change at GM. But the plan is to find a GM. that wants to work with Joe Judge. Since that happened, the Giants got blown out 29 to 3 against the Bears. Joe Judge did that impassioned 13-minute plea, which I think reminded Mara of McAdoo

and his terrible press conferences at the end where he was starting to bring shame upon the Giants organization and a couple other dispiriting losses, including that third and nine sneak near the goal line, which unfortunately is like, that's all we'll remember in six years about the Joe Judge time. I think will be him falling on the ground for the fumble. That was how it all started. You know, they were watering the ground, Dan.

You used to love. Well, that was the peak of the Joe Judge era. But that was also, that was training, his first ever training camp. And this is how it ended. And restart. If you're getting rid of Gettleman, get a new coach, don't saddle him with Judge. That's what I like about it for the Giants, because, you know, whether or not John Mara is very frustrated with what's happened since they're on their fifth coach since Tom Coughlin departed.

I mean, that's, this is a team in free fall and turmoil. I think we grew up, Dan, like with the Giants and we've always viewed them a certain way. And even up until a couple of years ago, there was an element of like, this is a classy organization. And it's not that they're not classy, but they have completely fumbled the head coach hire over and over. And so I hated the idea of having this stuff. Joe Judge in the building with another GM, a new GM, who probably would be a less powerful GM to agree to that to begin with. And we'll even see about the future of Daniel Jones.

I mean, I would also look at Joe Judge and say, I don't even know if he gets another job after this, anywhere at this point. It's the last. I don't get a job on a staff, but it's going to be tough to get that second thing. He was rumored to be Belichick's choice to replace Josh McDaniels if McDaniels left a couple years ago as the offensive coordinator. So you could almost see that happening this offseason. Well, then you go back to New England.

But I guess his cue rating is very low. But, I mean, there is another angle to the judge experience. I just think to be fair that, like, I can't think of too many new coaches that came into a scenario where, you know, Dave Gettleman put a subpar team on the field. Injuries plagued them from start to finish. And he's just probably not head coach material. But the next GM and head coach also Gettleman left them. If you look at over the cap, and I know this can check.

change. I know this isn't a big deal, but they are the fifth worst cap situation in the league, 19 million in the red. And they're tied up with a lot of current players that a new system, a new team, a new coach may not be into. And I think that starts with an honest evaluation of Daniel Jones, who's not often available due to injury. And the team in general just, we've never really seen the real New York Giants. They never scored 30 points under Joe Judge's reign. That's kind of crazy. And a lot of that certainly goes back to injuries. A lot of that goes back to how bad Dave Gettleman was at the job in the four years. And in

a lot of ways, I remember talking about this last summer. This was kind of a bad situation that Judge was in because he was entering year two. The team wasn't very good. And you had a GM that was a lame duck. And it just felt like he was in a very difficult position. And then

things kind of started to snowball against him, really starting with that Thursday night early in the season when the guy in, who is it, I can't remember Tomlinson. Somebody jumped off sides. to negate a Washington field goalness and allowed Washington to re-kick and make the kick and everything went downhill for the Giants at that point

and I do think about that press conference I wonder if that got him fired this ain't some clown show organization or something else and I know you can certainly point to... It was right after that report too that we'll talk about a city where your press conferences matter more than other cities. I mean there was a target on his back the team was playing poorly and then he I think he embarrassed the organization. He didn't try to but his way, his impassioned explanation of his belief in the team and that we're not a clown car

and all this stuff was just gasoline on the fire. So that's part of the big chair responsibility as well, especially in a big market like New York. And this is the stat that really it's floated around last week. And I just want to share it again here because this really tells the bigger story of the Giants. And before you say we got rid of Joe Judge and we got rid of Dave Gettleman and everything is fine now. The Giants at no point in the last five. years have been over 500 at any point. This is a proud organization that is down. So as frustrating as it is to be a Giants fan, you at least, this is an example of ownership who flipped a lot of right levers over the years being like, okay, we're going to correct the mistake here

and see if we can get this right now. Do they make the right hires? We shall see. But this is a step in the right direction. Right. I mean, these these firings are basically ownership. admitting how wrong they got something. I was thinking about that with like the opening press conferences that there's these opening press conferences, the wife's there, the family's there. Joe Judge specifically,

Mara said, blew him away. It was like, just they weren't expecting him to become the head coach. Blew him away. And you're sitting there at these press conferences. And no one's thinking this. But the reality is most of those people,

I'm going to fire you in three years or less. Like in most of those things, situations. I got this wrong. You're getting fired in three years or less. Twelve teams haven't made the playoffs over the last two years. Eleven of them have changed coaches. The Panthers are the only one that haven't changed coach in that time, and they obviously had a new head coach only two years. So it is like a results business. The Giants are on a massive losing streak. I don't think Daniel Jones is their biggest problem, but at least the new regime can just start fresh and decide what they want

to do with him and the rest of this roster, which is a bottom five or six roster in the NFL. And it is ponderous for fans of these teams that keep doing this over and over because the process doesn't change. You look at every one of these vacancies. It's the same laundry list of eight to 12 guys, most of them who failed already as head coaches, who are getting these interviews. I mean, it's a hot mess. And then if you go outside the box like the Giants did in this case, for every Mike Tomlin, there's 20 Joe judges. So it's so hard to pick the right guy. I mean, Mark, as a Browns fan, you know, as well.

well as anyone. It's so hard to find a guy, and sometimes an organization lucks into a couple in a row, and sometimes you start going through the wilderness, and that feels like that's where the giants are right now. We will see what it goes on over the next few weeks. They will be aggressive. Let's take a break, and then we'll hit the rest of the firings that went down on Monday. Hey, this is Matt Jones.

Now, I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get.

Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development

to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down.

the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The surprise move. There's always one surprise.

We've been doing this long enough. There's always one. And it was Brian Flores losing his job. When you lose a job, a season that ends with eight wins in nine weeks, including a seven-game winning streak, that's a surprise. But, Greg, as we hear more about the story, and Chris Greer, the GM is still employed here. As you hear more about the story, this wasn't so much about results on the field. It came back to, let's face it, a familiar refrain around disciples of Bill Belichick, it seems.

Not to put a blanket on everybody, but an inability to work well with others led to the demise of his program. Well, the differences, Flores has shown a great ability to game plan and I think overachieved on balance in terms of the three years he spent there. Remember when he took over, they were supposed to be the very worst team in the NFL by far. and they ended up closing that season strong, he's actually like over 500 after that initial losing streak. I think the dolphins are like a lot of workplaces where it's people protecting their jobs and being more worried about that

and feeling comfortable with the people above or below them than really being as interested in what's the best product possible because Brian Flores has been the best coach they've had in a while in terms of results since Stephen Ross became the owner. And so I think you look at Chris Greer, who's been there almost two decades. He's preserved that relationship with his boss, and he's going to be there moving forward. I have the feeling, just reading between the lines and some of the reporting, including from our Steve Weish, you know, Flores ruffled feathers. That maybe he didn't appreciate some of the ways that the people above them were doing business.

And you just can see with Flores, he might not have hit it very well, or he might have been very open. I think that Deshawn Watson drama was probably a flashpoint. But even by that point, if Flores was fired after winning eight of nine games, my guess is ownership had already decided back then. This guy's gone because we don't want him working for us. Like we're offended that he's either challenging us or the way that he runs his team, nothing to do with the results on the field. Yeah, I mean, it's been talked about that the tension had been, you know,

heading towards a boiling point for a while. now. And I can remember a day back when the dolphins were, you know, one in four or something. And it wasn't because of the record, but Greg and I were in the newsroom and someone that we really respect basically told us, because at that point you thought, Brian Flores is one of the brighter young coaches around. Of course he'd be safe because you look at who Stephen Ross, the owner, had dealt with that head coach before. There wouldn't be an issue here. But we were told the opposite that there were major issues in Miami that centered around Brian Flores. And I think that his relationship with two took a hit. And Chris Greer has been there since the year 2000. And Stephen Ross, who, you know,

like it or not, he runs the show, talked about lack of collaboration over and over. And I mean, you could look at a few things like the dual offensive coordinators, right? Things like that, where, I mean, just stuff was strange. But, I mean, in the end, it tells you everything you need to know that other teams, namely the bears, are interested in turning around and hiring Brian Flores and taking a chance on that lack of collaborative spirit that he brings. And that's when you hire these Patriots coaches, you have to actually, if you want them to be mini-Belichicks, do mini-Belichick things.

And ultimately, it seems like that was distasteful to Stephen Ross in the end. We'll see now. I saw a report that it was Flores that was driving the boat a little bit with Deshaun Watson and those rumors. And perhaps that led to the schism between him and Tua. That's just speculation on my part. But, you know, we heard a report also that the Dolphins or Flores will interview for the Bear's head coaching vacancy, as Mark said.

That's obviously, is he a guy that jumps from getting fired straight into a job? It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen. And maybe he's a situation when you can see it go down. Happened for Adam Gase, which, you know, wasn't a great idea, obviously. And I don't think it's the worst idea for Brian Flores to take a step back. You know, unless he is in the right situation or become a coordinator for a year, I think he'll probably get another chance because that team was built around. what he did well in terms of the defensive packages, the secondary, the blitzes, and like that's all

out the window. And so you're starting all over. And I don't doubt that he bears blame here, some blame for it all. But I look back at what's the longer track record. And that's Stephen Ross changing all these, you know, boats on the Titanic over and over and trying to find the right combination and not really finding it. And Chris Gurree has been there alongside the whole time. So I think we can sort of surmise from the reports that Greer and Flores or certainly Flores and Ross weren't getting along. But it just makes me laugh when he says like, well, I want better communication. I want more cohesion. Stephen Ross was literally reported from our network to be trying to set up an interview with Deshaun Watson before the trade deadline. And basically Watson couldn't get it off in time. You

wanted to meet with his lawyers and everything. We reported that. And he's talking about that Floris isn't like maintaining his relationship with Tua. I mean, to me, that it's a little laughable. Even Ross's public comments, I thought I was, I guess you want an owner to be transparent with the fan base and all that. But here's the quote. I've been looking at this over three years now and watching the organization grow. And I think an organization can only function if it's collaborative and it works well together. And I don't think we were really working well as an organization that it would take to really win consistently at the NFL level. If I'm interviewing for the Dolphins job, I'm a little bit nervous when I hear a quote like

that, that I might be somebody that wants to be used as a puppet that doesn't, isn't going to have a lot of power in the organization and feels like I'm going to be put into some type of vacuum. And let's face it, Miami's results over the last really post-Marino speak to it. It's like the bear's job as well. Same thing. When you take on a job like that, you're taking on. decades of failure, and what's behind that? Is it something that's going to swallow you up?

I think it's dangerous because any candidate would need to look at the fact that they're going to be paired now with Chris Greer, and barring that coach, bringing miracles to Miami, would lose any power struggle and already be de-emphasized power-wise. And secondly, whoever comes in needs to succeed right away, because Brian Flores, above all things else, had the program going in the right direction. I know they got it off to a rough start, but Miami's defense over the last couple years was the product of his coaching. And so I just think it's a tough landing spot for the next guy. Right. You have to beat nine and eight basically. And for all the, you know, talk of that they were, I guess, a little down this year. Like he crushed their over under win totals like the last

two years and he was pretty much at it this year. And the next coach is going to have to decide what they want to do with two. I think that's all, it's all open. I mean, they might. might be changing quarterbacks. The Laramie Tunsell trade, which Flores and Greer were a big part of crushed them because they've drafted like four offensive linemen in the first or second round, and they have the worst offensive line in the league. So it's not like Flores was perfect there. He cycled through coaches and even free agent acquisitions and players extremely fast.

And that kind of speaks to it was a destabilizing type of situation. All right. So Brian Flores is out. so too is Mike Zimmer, as well as general manager Rick Spielman in Minnesota, that pair, that brain trust with the Vikings. They are sent packing after eight seasons. The move comes a day after a disappointing Viking season ended with an eight and nine record. And this is the first time.

This organization has really cleaned house in its top two positions of leadership with Ziggy and Mark Wilf, in control of the organization that's been since 2005 so wow this is this one's interesting mark to me because i think there's so much focus on kirk cousins all the time around this team and about the offense going on and off and just the meandering nature of a kirk cousin's team being 500 but i think the reason zimmer ultimately gets fired here is because when they made the nfc title game in the in the case keenom year years ago. They had the number one ranked defense in the league. Fast forward to this year, ranked 30th in football that defense. And Zimmer's inability to get them to where they needed to

be. And of course, Spielman's inability to stock the cupboard in an effective way. I think it's the defense that led to this blowup. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think it's that 100% along with the fact that it just felt like classic relationship burnout to me. It was interesting that Eric Hendricks, their linebacker said after the firing, I don't think a fear-based organization is the way to go. Their tackle, Brian O'Neill was with Kendricks and also talked about humanity being lost in the building. There were stories of, you know, Zimmer has always been a cranky Bill Parcell's

offshoot, but I mean, I enjoy his crankiness, but I think it kind of started to weigh that building down. They talked about him just passing people in the hall and not speaking and spending tons of time. Don't do that. Not a good move. He's spending all this time on defense, but look at what's happened the past couple of years on offense, where he rode John D. Filippo in the press week after week, then flat out fired

him. The NFL made a rule about allowing coaches to interview for other opportunities after he blocked Kevin Stefansky from seeking a better role with the Giants. Stefan Diggs ultimately wanted out because of the lack of attention to the offense to some degree. I mean, Zimmer, though, is a high-quality coach who brought a high floor. So it's going to be, you know, It's another situation where the guy that comes in is going to have to hit the ground running and you can't really necessarily look at it as a chance to rebuild from scratch at all

because there's a lot of parts there. I think he knew even it was time. He was taking pictures with one of his assistant coaches on the field afterwards. He was there eight years. That's a good run. Rick Spielman was there 16 years. That is almost unheard of run. Now he wasn't in charge the whole time. He was second in charge

from about 06 to 11 or 12 and then he was in charge since. So that's a long time, I think the Wulfs have quietly been good owners. I think they built that stadium. There's been stability there. Zimmer was 16 games over 500. He had a pretty good run. The situation he inherited was a lot of drama. But there was a good article in the athletic. I do like looking back sometimes when these things happened. All the drama that happened under Zimmer is crazy to think about. You mentioned like the DePhilippo firing. Remember Norv Turner, like just mysteriously retired in the middle of the year, basically because he didn't like Zimmer, which that was

fun there was like there was the adrian peterson stuff there was teddy bridgewater unfortunately blowing out his his knee is tony sperano's death there there was just like a lot there and you can imagine after eight years the way he approached football would wear on you and and he was such a defensive guy it doesn't totally make sense in in 2021 but he also was a good he was a good coach you don't get the sense he wants to become a defensive coordinator again but if he did like everyone would be pumped to hire. He's an older guy. He's kind of an old school guy. I don't know if he's somebody that necessarily would fit the profile of a team that's looking for a fresh start. But yeah, like you said, he has been a successful head coach, came within a game

at the Super Bowl. So he seems like a guy that would get a second shot as well. Here's what Mark Will said, by the way, to Mark's point, that this could be a team that hires someone new, hires a new team builder and then the belief is that they could be contending in the NFC in 2022. I don't want to go into a full rebuild conversation. Wilf said our point is we have high expectations for this football team. We believe we can be super competitive right here in 2022. This is not in the mode of a full rebuild. So this is not a team tearing it down. This is not let's trade Kirk Cousins and start Kellyn Mond. This is a team that thinks they just need to freshen things up. And I get it. I like Zimmer. I think he's a good coach, but you understand at a certain

point, if you don't get the results you're looking for, you got to freshen it up a little bit. I think they're in a great spot with cousins. I think he's like the ideal guy to keep for one more year under his current salary while you draft a rookie. Like, and he's also a little tradable if you wanted to dip your toe into that and you probably wouldn't even even care that much about like offending him if you get mentioned in rumors. Like he feels a little tradable. And if it doesn't work out, keep them for one year. You draft someone to develop, you know, a first round pick or a second round pick. And like, I don't think they're in a bad spot. All right. Let's take a break here and then get into the next dismissal on New Horizons

Week here on around the NFL. All right. So I mentioned the bears. Let's talk about the bears. They fired Coach Matt Nagy and General Manager Ryan Pace on Monday after the team finished with a 6 and 11 record this season that ends a four-year run for Nagy that began with the NFL coach of the year. 2018, that was the double-doin season in the playoffs or won and done against the Eagles. But it has been downhill since then, back-to-back eight and eight seasons in 19 and 20. They did make the playoffs last year as the expanded team in the new wild card round. But one and done there, and then they took a step back here.

And this is a fresh start, Greg. They are getting rid of the entire brain trust, and they're putting faith in ownership and the people that are responsible for this decision to install something here that will be lasting and really put this franchise back on track because it's been a while now since this really felt like an organization to take seriously in the NFC. Yeah, it's still a family run operation, and you can hear that one. when, you know, McCaskey's son is speaking about, like, you know, how disappointed mom was, you know, and that's who they are right now.

Don't want to do that. I'm a little concerned, if only because they're already setting up all these GM interviews, right? And they're already setting up all these coaching interviews. And the list is long. Bowls, Daible, Eber Fluse, Leslie Frazier, Nathaniel Hackett, your boy, Byron Lefwich, Doug Peterson, Dan Quinn. It's a lot of names. But you're also interviewing the GMs at the same time.

and they say that the coach is going to be reporting to the GM, like already I'm wondering a little bit about the setup, but you do have Justin Fields, and I think you've got to hire an offensive-minded coach, or I really think that's the way to go, and whoever has the best vision and plan for Justin Fields gets the job, in my opinion, what could be more important than that? I think the one problem here is that, yes, it's a fresh start because at least it's not a dueling GM and coach. But George McCasky and Ted Phillips have totally turned off Chicago. That was one of the worst press conferences that has ever happened in the NFL. It was just a disaster. And why did you think it was so bad? I got to admit, I only saw one little clip and it was, that clip was bad, but I didn't

watch it all like you. I watched about the Q&A section of it after his long, bizarre intro. And I think that there is just a high level of exhaustion with what McCaskey and Phillips have done. And they were getting pointed questions. And McCasky, basically, you know, like Chicago media was saying that it was a masterclass and how not to run a press conference. He just looks like a fish out of water. And it's the same people. He's going to make that decision in the end. They're going to bring Bill Pollyan in as a consultant who's turning 80 soon. It just, I don't know if you, the thing was a lot to like about the bears, the concept of it. But the ownership situation, its creaky inability to change

would concern me as a head coach candidate. RAPE, Matt Nagy, you know? He did go out with a winning record for his, as much grief as he took. He did have a winning record for his career. How about that, Matt? And the thing is, all the other coaches that are still hired right now, beware,

because Barris fans won't have Matt and Aggie to kick around anymore, but there's always someone else. Who's going to be? the guy in 2022. I mean, it was a classic thing where, like, they almost shouldn't have won the division with Trubisky. It, like, ruined the next couple of years because they kept trying to do it.

It was a miracle in hindsight. I mean, he did do a nice job that year with Trubisky overall, but they had a great evening. Yeah, the entire, you know, the brain trust there, Nagy inherited Mitch Trubisky. It was Ryan Pace who made one of the great draft gaffes of all time. not only passing on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes, but trading up to get Mitch Trubisky to overall. So the fact that he lasted this long after a gaff at that level

does speak to some issues behind the scenes. Mark, I think it does, I think I got a sandwich off you, though, for Nagy getting dismissed. I think you thought because of the organization that they would be too loyal and move too slowly. You did, and I thought they might move too slowly. I looked at the go get my lunch.org page the other day. And I was like, was I on LSD when I took that?

We're going to hit that at the end of the show. Let's take a break. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

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All right, welcome back. Let's now hit on another coach who's seemingly in danger but still employed Matt Rule, Carolina Panthers. We heard the Fox report last week. Glazer put it out there that rule needed to hire a quote rock star offensive coordinator to save his job then rap sheet reported um today that the panthers fired special teams coach

chase blackburn offensive line coach pat mire defensive line coach frank oakum okey ocom so this is the this is the move mark that the panthers are taking right now matt rule's not the problem Everything else around him, including the coaching staff, that he put together, is the problem. Does this also feel a little backwards for the Panthers? Well, I mean, to me, it just feels like an example of a cue rating, nose diving for a coach that I thought last season had a lot of support around him. And, you know, when you start firing, like, you know, when you fire the starry offensive coordinator that everyone thought might be the next big thing in the NFL, now you're firing your special teams coordinator. you're firing line coaches left and right, you're scapegoating. And there's at some point, and it's going to be real hot the minute the next season starts,

where the fingers are going to be pointed nowhere else but at Matt Rule. I think that already started at the end of this year. Oh, he's the Matt Nagy. He is. I think he is. There's probably a bunch of them. But if Judge stuck it stuck around, it'd be like a nice sort of horse race between Rule and Judge. There's always one guy that ends up being the guy.

Well, I don't know if the Panthers fan base would be as vocal. perhaps as the bears had been around Nagy, but Nagy became a national thing. And, yeah, I think rule is a very strong candidate to follow in that same role. He just seems so disheveled and discombobulated when they asked him about Sam Darnold. Like, he just didn't have an answer for Sam Darnold. He just started hemming and high and being like, well, we brought him in. We thought he could be a quarterback.

That's why we guarantee you the money, but that's like the low end of starter money. and he was just like he looked like he hadn't slept which maybe he hadn't it's the last game of the season they're doing all this stuff but he just he he seems like the NFL has bowled him over a little bit i don't hate them keeping him for a third year maybe i'm wrong i you know i wasn't as high on him as mark mark you know had this loves this panthers team love matt rule i see how he's now putting it on other people he was like he was like he was like yeah people were very high on him it's like no no no i mean i think it's obvious that i was but it was also because he came up and shook So I don't know if there's a lot of, like, integrity in my fandom.

I guess I'm like, I'm someone that, okay, if it's a total disaster. He just had to shake your hand. That, like, built out your analysis for a year and a half. Well, look, it I also liked the idea that he had a history of taking programs, rehabbing them and making them very strong. I thought he could be like a Jimmy Johnson type figure. Right now, you think nothing like that of him. And the best thing to Greg's point is to have him not on Mike for weeks and weeks in a row.

I mean, he's, he needs a break, and he needs to come back with a plan and a quarterback. Right. They've been, him and his GM, Scott Fitter, who is, you know, fairly new. Like, both were like, well, we just got to get an offensive line. You know, if you protect Sam Darnold, he's shown he can be a good quarterback. First of all, that's like the minimum baseline. Like, if you get perfect protection, Donald can be average. But that, it's like, well, why did it take two years to think of, like, let's have good,

uh, in a good offensive line? Like that, that's your, that's your. That's your big solution. And yet, I don't hate them keeping them. I kind of think coaches should get three years unless they're total disasters and haven't shown anything. And I actually think his offense has made sense to me, especially a year ago. The line was so bad this year.

They've built up that defense. I think he's just above that threshold of unmitigated disaster only gets two. That giving him a third, I don't hate it. And it wouldn't shock me with some better personnel moves if they're in the. the mix at least he gets along with the owner too that from all we hear that they get along well and they have some shared vision so that probably helps you out of time he's an offensive guy who's just made so many bad quarterback decisions that it feels like their whole offseason is going to be based on if they get a big time quarterback they better be best friends for this to that to be a

driving reason for him staying i mean it's like results or results and there have not been any there how about uh david cully and the texans we've mentioned them a couple times he expects to return for a second season, despite a lot of speculation about his job status. Here's what Cully had to say after a 2825 loss of the Titans at end of the season. I'm looking forward to being the head coach of the football team next year. Haven't thought about it one minute. He said, as far as he knows, he'll be back. We talked about this a little bit on the Sunday show.

Team CEO and Chairman Cal McNair, General Manager Nick Casario. You're not hearing anything from the team about Culley's future. Jay Glazer reports that it's something that can happen, usually when Glazer reports something like that, that Cully's out. He probably will be out. It would not be a great look, but it is what it is. They stopped caring about how things look in Houston a while ago. Right.

It's just like you hired this guy. It just fulfills basically the worst thoughts of what everyone thought when they hired David Cully. because I don't even think there's an argument of whether this team performed above expectations or not. They did. People were thinking this might be one of the worst NFL teams ever created. I think they had like a two and a half over under, something absolutely preposterous. They developed a quarterback.

They were competitive. Their defense actually was decent. I'm not saying he should be a great long-term head coach, but assuming if they do fire him and then, hire some Casario friend, like a former Patriots guy, whether it's McDaniels or Flores, then it's just that's what they were intending to do the whole time and they use the guy as a Patsy and give him a lot of money to do so. Well, I think if anything, though, if you're David Cully, you escape with a money, guaranteed money, and B, I think a pretty good league-wide evaluation of

the job you did. It's not a flaming train wreck where you vanish from society for two years because we don't think you're up to the job. I would not put it past the Texans just with their weirdness and the way they operate for us to suddenly find out that they hired like a Josh McDaniels and they had a secret interview or an unannounced interview

to get to make all that kosher but it's like they're just so bizarre and I think they've done them so dirty and it's just like how can this organization that even a couple years ago was on the up and up look this bad and operate this poorly? It's like they stand out

among the other 32 teams. Like Jeff Howe from The Athletic, who is a former Patriots reporter, said they might not decide until Thursday or Friday. So, like, this is where, like, they're supposedly evaluating until then. And it's pretty clear that the Easter B. Casario combo is trying to see if they can get the guy that they want and if they can't, then I guess we'll string along Cully for another year. Like, it's just, it's just kind of pathetic. Like I said, it just, by some of their actions, it feels like the Texans have no idea

what they're doing. Yes. It could seem like that from the outside. Now maybe inside that motherfucker, they know exactly what's going on. But from here, where we are, no, man. They ain't it. Inside the building, a greased up machine, no doubt. I don't know what that was.

I don't know who that was. I want to cut that. I like that. The whole bit there. Lastly, Dan Quinn, he's the defensive coordinator. the Cowboys, he is really, see, this is the perfect example of how you rehabilitate your image and brand in the NFL. Quinn went from Hot Shot, DC. Was it DC in Seattle? Is that where he was? Before he got the Atlanta job, built that program, went to a Super Bowl, we all

know how that turned out, then went into a long decline in Atlanta, got fired, looked like old news, but he still had the chops as a defensive play caller, goes to the Cowboys, revitalizes that defense with some help. Micah Parsons falling into his lap was a nice little upgrade that helped him. And now he's a hot candidate again, and there is a report. It's circulating out there, Denver 7's Troy Rank, for instance, but I think it's popped up in a few places, that the Broncos have requested permission to interview Dan Quinn for their head coaching vacancy.

Of course, we learned Vic Fangio. was fired on Sunday morning. So that's another opening in Denver. Why does this feel weird to me, though? Greg, maybe it's just because we've been doing this long enough. You know how it typically works. You fire the guy that's a defensive-minded coach. That's a veteran guy.

So then hire an offensive-minded guy that's kind of like a hot shot. Usually you like to go opposite. But this feels like you're in the same lane. Yeah, I'm surprised. and there, if you read between the lines, it sounds like he might be a favorite or the favorite in Denver. And then he might have more interviews too elsewhere in the league. At one point, there was a report he declined to talk to the Jaggers,

but he said it was more about timing. I think people around the league, and I don't know the relationship he has with George Payton. I should have looked at it up, who is the GM in Denver. It's a very strange situation. Peyton's only been there a year. The ownership could be changing, and nothing's going to stay.

stop by Peyton from hiring a coach, but the ownership could be totally different in a month. I'd be stunned to hire Quinn as a defensive guy, but I guess they see him as a leader of men and he has a great reputation, just because then you've got to find the offensive guy, something he was off and on about, you know, in Atlanta. He did well when Kyle Shannon was there, essentially, and not so well when he wasn't there. That's the problem with hiring a defensive head coach is they take your offensive guy if he's good. Like, you do a good job hiring your offensive guy, it gets taken from you. And so that's why I'd always lean offense.

Not that there aren't good defensive-minded head coaches. Sean McDermott's amazing. But it surprises me that it sounds like he might be the favorite there in Denver. Looking at the list of their candidates, two others stand out to me, just based on what we thought could happen with the Broncos this offseason. Dan's guy, Nathaniel Hackett, and Packers, who's the Packers-O-C, and Green Bay quarterback's coach, Luke Getzee. I wonder if there is a side plot or a plan to bring those guys in.

Aaron Rogers was one of the first guys to trump for Nathaniel Hackett getting a head coaching job last offseason. So would that ever be the way to lure Aaron Rogers to Denver with someone he really loves and also maybe bring over the quarterback's coach as well in an environment that tells Aaron Rogers, we got you. Oh, God. Aaron Rogers is an environment where they got him. I get that. Any other move doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't seem like he's moving at this point, but we are less than a calendar year removed from him being totally annoyed.

I don't care what any other team offers. It's like it's not better than what Green Bay offers to him right now in terms of how he secures his legacy in these final years. But it's all good points. You, by the way, Greg, you asked George Payton Patton, Patton, General Patton? I think it's Peyton. We like to call him General Patton, but it's Peyton. They didn't, Quinn and Patton didn't have a, Peyton didn't have a lot of overlap. in their career. They worked briefly together

with the dolphins like 15 years ago, but this isn't anything where these guys have been tied to the hip at some point. So we'll see the one other guy on that list who stands out. Doug Peterson was added. He's going to talk to him also. Yeah, he's talking to the bears. He's

making the rounds in general. One last, just like coaching tracker news, and it's on NFL.com. You can see where all the interviews, like the Jaguars have interviewed everyone, including Bill O'Brien, Leftwich, all that stuff. Mike McDaniel in Miami sounds like one that might have some legs

very well regarded offensive coordinator for the 49ers Kyle Shanan has sort of famously not allowed him to leave for a lateral move but he certainly would if it was a head coaching job and that's one that seems to have a little bit of buzz and heading into Sunday night there was a lot of buzz about Harbaugh

and the up in Las Vegas but I do wonder if A, that's BS, or B, B, like, whether Bessatia can now keep this job. I'm curious what Bessatia has to do to keep the job. Like, does 10 and 7 in the playoffs not enough? Well, what if they win? And I think they can, by the way. We're going to get into it on Thursday a preview of all the super wildcard weekend games. But I kind of like the Raiders' chances of hanging around in that game against the Bengals.

Would that make Rich Bessatia? Would that rip off the interim label? you make the divisional round it'd be pretty it'd be harder to imagine them making a change one little one little tiny note the night that i shook hands with matt rule uh oh i was speaking with a niners assistant you were there dan we were at that bizarre party i was probably at about four to seven titos in me at that point but yes i was there physically you were there um a nineer's assistant told me that mike mcdaniel was the most important progressive, creative person on the entire staff.

Do you hear this? Do you hear that, Greg? This is Mark, his next target of affection slash infatuation. And he was a former Browns assistant, right? Oh, here we go. Check the boxes. Andrew Hawkins and Joe Thomas have spoken publicly about this. They think he's like, you know, they think Kyle Sannahan's maybe the great

the greatest thing they've been around. The quiet storm bingo card. We're just axing them off. Yeah, they love McDaniel. They think he is the real deal. All right. there you go that's what's happening in the news all right before we get out of here new segment sponsor quality time brought to you by verizon the official 5g network of the nfl quality time

it's us all together chopping it up talking ball through the go get my lunch segment produced by the great nick four tier it's very important that people understand this is probably not going to look good for any of us um but it's very hard to make these predictions even the ones that seem safe. Like I remember, as I was looking at mine, I was like, don't I remember the show where we made these props like, Greg had this whole monologue about how I wasn't hanging any onions. These were like insane props that I was laying out there. Really? None of them worked out. You didn't hang any onions in my opinion. But that was all based on the speculation of what will happen in 2022, 2021. And it never works out how we all expect. Anyway, let's go through it. Mark, we'll start with you, buddy. Looks like you're, it looks like you're 12 and 9. Oh, no, 12 and 7. Nice, Mark. It did come out good for someone.

Mark has... Your old third place, Sessler. He's climbing. That's exemplary in my book. As I've said many times, Mark is like the old Rob Deer, that old slugger for the brewers or name

the hit or miss slugger from your youth watching baseball. The guy that strikes out 220 times, but he'll hit 32 homers. He'll run into one. Every once in a while, he hits a bomb, and we're going to get to one here. First, you had Big Ben starts week one for the Texans. I remember when you said that and I didn't, I thought it was a joke, but you kind of had a theory there connected to

Deshawn Watson and I guess the Texans looking to contend and the Steelers looking for a fresh start. Negative. We got two sandwiches there, one for Dan, one for Greg. You nailed the A Coach will resign during the season. Wow. That is, by the way, this is all coming from the great Nick Fortier of Go Get My Lunch.org. Nick has Urban Meyer here. Meyer was fired, but John Gruden resigned before he could get fired.

Bang, nailed it, got two sandwiches there. Way to profit off of racial controversy there. That's what he does. Greg, why do you need to frame it that way? That's not... But let's say, let's just be honest, Mark, it's not the first time you've done that. All right, next category.

A top story involves an NFL cheerleader, and this and this, you know, this just shows Everyone gets upset about the Philly special and all this. No, no, no, no. We're magnanimous here. And it's, it's, yeah, was the NFL cheerleader angle of the Gruden situation, really the biggest part of that story? No, but it was a little, it was a little seasoning in that story.

And Mark said a top story involves an NFL cheerleader. There was that whole calendar issue around John Gruden and Washington football team. Bang, two more sandwiches, Mark, so good for you, buddy, right there. There's your Rob Deere hits one, 480 at old county stadium. You know, when you're projecting these things, and really this is the area for all the three, just true experts should be doing this to start with. I mean, you see things and they feel strong, but when you put them into words, which I falter at sometimes, you know, I maybe overemphasize the size of the story

involving the cheerleader, but there's no doubt that, you know, once again, totally dead on. And I feel like I've done my, I've done my work, and I'm ready to just walk out of the room here. So to just recap, you've won sandwiches from a racial controversy ending one of the most famous men in the NFL's career and a sexual misconduct allegation and report that ended up, you know, causing Washington's, you know, ownership to be changed. That's where you're winning your sandwiches. Right, but that's not to be conflated with the idea that I'm prancing around celebrating. those things. It's a prediction of a dark major. What were you doing like 45 seconds ago? Well, you, Greg? You were like spiking the football. The results. Not how I got there and not, you know, not what I, what it is that I saw. And again, there's a Rob Deere component to this.

So let's just hit the rest of them here. Baker Mayfield will throw more touchdowns than Aaron Rogers. That just tells you where Mark felt both about Baker and Rogers coming off in MVP season. Rogers finished with 37. Baker, just 20 behind him at 17. Okay, so not such a shiny result. Imagine if I told you back in August, Mark, not only will he not do it, you could double Baker's touchdown total, and he still won't match Aaron Rogers. See, that would have been a great sandwich prop on your part to counter mine. And then, of course, a close but no cigar, hand grenade theater here.

A team finishes 8, 8, and 1 in 2021. Oh. So close, but the Steelers pull it out. Week 18, beating the Ravens to finish nine, or what were they, nine, seven, and one. You were a Marquis Brown drop away from, I would say, the greatest go get my lunch performance in history. If you hit that one with those three and whatever your win-loss record would be, that would be it. Wow.

All right, now, Greg. I mean, that's by the time the season had turned totally dark on me, so I was not surprised to not get that one on the final Sunday. Greg, I see all red for you. I didn't get one right. Trouble in the go get my lunch.org universe. You are six and seven, which means you made six sandwiches

on other people's incorrect predictions, but none on your own. The Broncos will make the playoffs. Mark got a sandwich on that. Stupidly, I got sucked into some of that Denver hype because I think when Greg, when really Greg gets on one in like August and September, and he's just completely obsessed with the team like the Broncos,

I think it rubbed off on me. and I will learn from that going forward. Speaking of which, Greg, Terry McLaren will finish with a higher ranking and receiving yards and the ram seed in the NFC. I like the way you worded this one. I did draft Terry McLaren as well. That didn't work out for me in my fantasy league. I picked up two sandwiches here just so everyone knows.

And I do applaud you, Greg, for the setup of it. I did enjoy looking at things from a different perspective. but Terry finished 19th in receiving yards. The Rams finished fourth in the NFC. So 15 spots separated. Three teams from the AFC East will have more victories than the amount of consecutive photos that Mark posted to Instagram of Leonardo DiCapio

and Kate Winslet in early September. Mark was in a bit of a place very early on in the season and there was a lot of Leo, Kate, stuff going on. there were nine photos consecutively on social media. And how was it worded? It had to be more than nine? Three teams have to have more than those photos. So it had to be three.

Because the dolphins got to nine. Three double-digit teams with double-digit wins. The bill's got 11. The Pat's got 10. The dolphins got nine. If only they could have extended that winning streak in week 17. They would have hit 10 as well. I give Greg credit for some very creative sandwich word worded propositions there.

Creative losses. This one's fun. I like it. Jadavian Clowny. There was the breathless summer of hype about Clowny. It's been the case his whole career. I said under four and a half sacks. But Clowny did have a presence.

He was a guy that did some things for the Cleveland defensive line. He had nine sacks. I want to say something. I did not know he finished with nine sacks. That's amazing to me because. That means he still doesn't have a double-digit sack season. Well, that's one way to spend. He had two in the final game and got a $250,000 bonus because of that.

Good for him. Is he under contract for next year? No, but none other than Miles Garrett and a couple of other defensive players are lobbying to bring him back. You've got to get out. Get the good while the good is getting. Then make a move. I will set up this prop again next year if he's still in the Browns. Okay.

Week one, Jets beat the Panthers. Cynthia and I had a wager. I don't even think this should be part of the competition, but it is. I took an L there. Zach Wilson wins offensive rookie of the year. Not quite, Zach. That was sometimes I like to wishcast in this particular game. Wilson was middling at best for most of his rookie year and really was quite bad in large trunks.

Chunks are lost two there. The AFC will post at least a five. 41 winning percentage versus the NFC. By the way, I love that you didn't take me on this, Greg. What? The theory here was that in September,

in early September, we're all on this like kick that the AFC was much better than the NFC and so I thought that that would lead to success. However, it turned out that the AFC's winning percentage was 487.

Why didn't I take you? That was a I don't know. I don't know. And let's see, at least two of the following teams will lose 10 plus games. This is one that you got upset about, Greg, and you didn't take me on it either. At least two of the following teams will lose 10 plus games. Steelers, and what did the Steelers, lose eight? Bears, who lost 11.

Saints, who lost eight. Colts, who lost... Well, that's why I got mad at you. like I didn't think it was hanging it. So I didn't take you on that? So I did avoid it. You didn't take me on it. And so you won that one over, Mark? At least two. No, I lost, right?

I don't know. Only one of them had a... Yeah, only one made it. Yeah. So I don't know. And finally, Matt Nagy is fired after the 2021 season. Mark, you took me on that. That was at some point in our podcast in a random episode. We made that wager.

And, Ricky, you had one, by the way. You want to jump on a second? this one crashed and burned real hard Speaking of Yes and now Sort of yeah Summer Summer storylines run amok

You had Marquis Calloway Remember the hype around Calloway Who? During the preseason Out targets Michael Thomas But this was an important distinction Semicolon Upon his return

Michael Thomas never returned So according this was never But he didn't come us on this but I like that he's the arbiter of this stuff Nick Fortier said void he wrote Michael Thomas never returned so

that the wager goes nowhere it never happens but didn't I say that he would replace Michael Thomas I mean I feel like I did sort of backtrack he finished yeah he had 84 targets for the season 698 and how many did Michael Thomas get I'm just saying that's we

we didn't decide this Ricky this is like when Greg was strong-arming you in the picks competition earlier this year. Like the picks competition, this is a nothing burger now, just like Ricky hasn't even made a pick in the last three or four weeks. She gave up. But you set it again for that. You kind of set the table that you took her spirit away. Yeah.

A little bit there, Greg. What about last year then when she stopped picking games about a month and a half? But that's not helping her spirit to go back into the past and, you know, fling more arrows at Erica. I think a good New Year's resolution, Greg, is to think. Think about Ricky's spirit. That'd be good. It's very, very gentle.

It needs protection. She has that tough exterior. She wears that black leather jacket all the time. And she rides a motorcycle, but she's a flower, really. Maybe Greg, maybe at the end of like a Thursday show, you could be like, oh, we haven't heard from Erica this whole show. Maybe I should ask her who she locks this week. Like, maybe that would be good instead of me trying to push myself into, you know, conversation.

Yeah. Are you right? I'm not thinking about that. Hey, Mark, we've reached the part of the show where Eric and Greg start working out their stuff like in a passive-aggressive way in the middle of the podcast. Yeah. No, we're here. Here we are.

Well, we got to give something to the people who waited this long and only got like a void Marcus Calloway thing. Finally, Shaq was on our show in the ramp up to the season. He predicted the Chargers would win the AFC West. They did not win the AFC West. It was the Chiefs. Gosh, they were so. close i was just thinking about that that they were like a minute away from being in first place

over the chiefs three weeks ago and now they're not in the playoffs yep that's how it works all right there you go check it out go get my lunch dot org uh not only does it have uh the wagers for this season it has every wager ever and that's just fun because i went back and checked out the all-time standings and you get like just random gems uh like Chris Wessling predict team that drafts Johnny Mansell, the Los Angeles Rams, or was it the St. Louis Rams back then? I don't know. We've been doing this a long time. It was the L.A. Rams. That's amazing. Wow. Anyway, good stuff. And that was quality time brought to you by Verizon, the official 5G network

of the NFL. All right. Thursday, that's the next time you're going to hear from us, and we will be previewing super wild card weekend, a whole bunch of games to break down. We're excited to do it for you. So thank you to everybody. And just a heads up, set your DVRs. It is back, the NFL network version of the Around the NFL podcast. We call it the broadcast. It is not infringing on Erica's IP because broadcast is different than broadcast.

It's just, it's different. It's different. Yeah, but I love the plug. Check out the broadcast. Check out split ends. Check it all out. And I was going to say, and Greg, take a note here. Ricky, you got split ends this week.

What's on the show? We got Mike Golick, Jr. from ESPN after the national championship game last night for college, talking a little bit of that, talking a little bachelor, because he's a known bachelor watcher. So it was fun. So, okay, I've been taking, I'm taking notes, Dan. Is this how it works? Check Ricky out on the Jesselnik and Rosenthal Vanity Project this week. You know, she speaks a lot more on that than here. She's really integral part of the show.

Erica, do you worry at all about intense overexposure at some point? You're on roughly 17 different shows. No, because Mark, remember you did like a meditation maybe five years ago when I just started and it was about me coming from like the corner office of NFL network to shut down around the NFL. I'm just getting more powerful as time goes on so it would behoove you to stay on my good side. All right, let's end the show. All right. We'll be back Thursday. Thank you for listening. Until then, Eitha. Hey,

Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies coaching trends and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision

makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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