NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL Around the League: AFC North - August 16th, 2013

Episode Date: August 17, 2013

Dave Dameshek brings the debate back to “The NFL Around the League Podcast” as he joins Gregg Rosenthal, Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Chris Wesseling to preview the AFC North. The team also breaks down the headlines from the Week 2 preseason Thursday night games. Join the conversation and tweet us @NFL_ATL or #NFLATL.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the League podcast would follow Mike Tomlin anywhere. Starts now. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the League. podcast. My name is Dan Hansis, joined by a room full of heroes. Chris Wessling, Mark Sessler, and Greg Rosenthal. What's up, boys? What's up? Got the new intro. Yes. That was good.

I like that one. Well, we've already established that I will follow Mike Tomlin anywhere. Yes, Wes is a big time. Any bar, any scene, any sewer. I'm behind him. And we don't want to give it away, but, you know, there's going to be more surprises. This is a general idea of the intro. So let us know, you know what you think at NFL ATL, the Twitter account. I know Crystal is so happy right now. If I had thrown in a hashtag, our producer would just be jumping up and down. Hashtag NFL ATL. We're not really like a hashtag group. I hate to break it to you. We're not organized enough, I don't think. Well, this has been a crash course for Crystal who seems to be very

organized and she's trying to lead the soldiers, but the soldiers were a little rag tag. So Crystal, I apologize that the past week sometimes not everything goes to plan, right? That's right. But at the end of this season, you guys will all be speaking in hashtag. Yeah, I have a sense that Crystal is... Lieutenant Crystal. Yeah, she's not going to sit with our style for long. She's whipping us into...

She's secretly kind of like a 45-year-old middle manager because she loves meetings. She just loves having meetings. Things are changing. It's kind of like a Lumberg from office space. What's happening? The more the merrier. All right, great.

No, we appreciate it, Crystal, because we need a rudder. But, all right. So, it is now Friday, Thursday night. We had four games. So let's just get right into the breakdown of those. Greg, you wrote up the piece with the help of Chris and I breaking down the what we learned. 18 facts. But why didn't you jump, get us started, Greg.

What was the big takeaway on Thursday night? I couldn't help but think about our friend Mark here and the Cleveland Browns. Just because it's like they can't have nice things. It's like right when Brandon Whedon is looking so good, people are talking preseason MVP, or I was talking kind of tugging cheek there, that all goes well, then there's a bunch of injuries, and that to me kind of was the story of the night,

the Brown's injuries along with Whedon. Mark, what was your reaction watching at home? You're the only one that had the night off from work. Well, we've got to get that in there, don't we? Well, no, I was actually watching the game very closely, and, you know, listen, I mean, as a Browns fan, at this point, a little dead inside. So I saw all these people were tweeting at me saying,

oh, Mark Sessler must be so excited about Brandon Whedon and what's happening in Cleveland. It's like, honestly, it's the middle of August. Let's keep our expectations and check. And yeah, by the end of the night, a laundry list of injuries had essentially put expectations back where they should be in a very dark place. First of all, I can attest to the darkness and the deadness within you

on several of those but what I wanted to say was Mark sent me an instant message before the game started and I think this was more because again Mark was in his little back room watching the games with a you know a corona with a lime in it probably

and he said I have a feeling there's going to be a potentially serious injury to a major player tonight it was a psychic it was a psychic feeling that just washed over me right and I needed to share it with someone shared it with me and I just think there's something cosmically hilarious that half your roster went under during that game.

There had to be some type of tie there. Hilarious, maybe not the word, especially for the franchise. But, you know, listen, I do look at those injuries, and there was a varying level of severity, but it looks like most of them will be back outside of Dionne Lewis, potentially by week one, two, three. And to Greg's point about Brandon Whedon, I looked in both directions and just casually hopped aboard the Brandon Whedon Hype Train last night. It's a rollicking. It's a rollicking train. I'm very

excited. The guy, this is he I don't know, big guy I know, preseason, whatever making big throws, beautiful touch pass to Josh Morgan. He's got his friend Cameron, the tight end that looks like a playmaker in that offense. I'm sneaky in right now. You know what's funny to me

is that you and Mark both jumped on the Brandon Whedon train before Rob Chitzinski. That's true. This is the biggest farce in the NFL right now. Well, you're referring to... The quarterback, quote, competition. Chud did not still not announcing the...

Today, Chudzinski gathers the media together and says, nope, nope, nope, I know Eden is leading... Leading the preseason in passer rating has taken every first team rep throughout off-season practices and training camp. But I'm not ready to name a quarterback yet because we've got this fierce battle going with Jason Campbell who is purely a backup. I mean, it's a bit of a farce,

but then you look in Buffalo. They've got Kevin Cobbs starting tonight. Yeah, but he's taking first team rep. He's starting. It's such disrespect to the guy. It is. He cannot win. You've got to reward the guy

for what he's done these last two weeks and the fact that he's taking every rep. He's going to start. So why do we need to go through this farce? The show is. Well, wait, why are you, why are three people angry at me about it? I'm the guy that for, you know,

25 years hasn't even understood the feeling of a potential franchise quarterback. I don't necessarily see weed in that way on any level. I think the organization is also skittish about him from the top down. I think their plan is to draft someone after this season. This has a feel

of back when Chud was last with the Browns. Derek Anderson blows up in 2007. They pump the brakes on any idea of drafting or grooming another pass or they give him a big contract. The entire shop melts the next season. Mark, I feel like we're ganging up on you, but there were a lot of exciting things.

First of all, they've lost their starting guards, and hopefully they come back, but otherwise, you know, Mingo is going to be back. Lewis ultimately is a backup running back. They can survive that. They have decent depth there anyways. But I like watching Whedon, because when he's making mistakes in this game, it's all vertical, it's all down the field, he's getting protected well, they're being aggressive, they're kind of fun to watch.

Well, the core difference is Pat Schumer was coaching an offense last season that couldn't have been a worse fit. He's got better coaching in an offense that suits what he is, a big-armed guy. Not sure they're all going to go to the right team, but there you go. Okay, so we can get back to the Browns for our AFC North preview in a few minutes with our very special guest, who's now behind the glass. We still have not told the public who it is. He's a good-looking man.

Very good-looking. Rugged, good-looking man. But, okay, so the other big takeaway, Greg, from Thursday night. I think you've got to go look at how well Michael Vick played and I've heard a lot of talk. Wow, both Michael Vick and Nick Foles have looked great. What a good problem to have. This is such a close battle and they've only had four possessions each

but Nick Foles has turned the ball over twice in those four possessions. I don't think it's that close. Vic has been more or less perfect. You couldn't ask for him to do anything more in the preseason. Foles has, you know, he fumbled it twice last night on top of the interception. He's made mistakes. I don't know why they're not going to name Vic the starter now, but I don't think it really makes a difference.

This is a really fun offense to watch. I don't know that I have much more to add to that. Vick's better. He's a better player. He's a better fit for the system. It's a no-brainer. Forward side ends on the field. I know that was getting, Mark really likes the scheme variation.

I mean, Chip Kelly's not trying to show too much, but they were playing very fast, showing a lot of different formations. I mean, they're going to be, I don't know. I was picking the Eagles to win the division in the middle of the summer, and now I'm feeling even better about it. I mean, I think the big question going into yesterday, and Dan wrote about it was,

okay, we have all this attention on the offense, but the defense doesn't look markedly improved from last season, and it was a disaster last season. So what happens with this team on both sides of the ball? Are they more than an 8-18 when you put the defense into the equation? Last night, this game was not one of the games I watched, but I do know that Cam Newton and the Panthers' offense, they even left in Newton longer because they were not getting a foothold.

Is that more about the Panthers struggling in offense or the Eagles defense being a little better? Well, they've completely scrapped the read option for the most part. Like they look really different than last year, and Shula has, looks like he's put it into more a base offense that just has Cam Newton stressing more of the pass. I don't know, maybe there's some adjustment there, but they were saying it was a better offense for him. He missed some throws. Steve Smith didn't want to go over the middle, made some business decisions because it's the preseason. Really the only touchdown they've scored, I think, in eight possessions is. preseason is when they got a short field so they haven't played well and i think it just raises

the question in carolina mike schula has pretty much destroyed any offense that he's run i mean he he leaves alabama and they become the greatest college football juggernaut of the last you know 50 years uh he hasn't done much as a pro coordinator either i think that's a fair assessment mike schula has shown nothing that will lead us to believe he can run a creative imaginative NFL offense but it's the preseason so that's right like that's the point like they haven't shown any read option well the redskins didn't show any read option last preseason either we you know they could be waiting to unleash this why does mike schula get hired if you know universally he's seen as kind of a slump he's not got it done well what was that well i don't know a slump well this is just a theory of mine but these things

tend to happen with the mom and pop football operations like the bengals do this kind of thing maybe not as much recently, but they hired his brother, Dave, who lasted for way too many years as the head coach there. Ron Rivera is probably on the hottest seat in the NFL. He can't go and pick his choice of assistance out there to come join his staff. Shula's been Cam Newton's guy. Cam is excited about it. I think it's a little early.

The thing with the preseason is sample size. I mean, ultimately they've only had eight possessions, so it's not that big a deal. Okay, so we did the AFC East preview on Wednesday. Now we move to the AFC North. And more importantly, now we welcome in our special surprise guest. He is the man that in some ways to help birth the Around the League podcast by giving Mark and I our start. He is a legend in his own time, the great Dave Damashek.

The Godfather. What's the poop, fellas? You okay, Dave? A little fragile. That was pretty grim acting there, my band hands are. I am okay. Yes, my voice, fragile as it is, now finally matches my ego, what I have emotionally going on. It's nice to have another Jew in the studio.

Yes, I know. This place, now Mike Silver has joined the NFL network. This place is getting lousy with Jews. All right, so we had rich eyes in last week. Now we got damaged. Speaking of Jews. Monday. Oh, was that Monday?

That was Monday. Wow. Okay. So we brought Dave in because it is time to talk the AFC North. and I think like we did on Wednesday we're going to each the four of us ATL guys are going to pose a question and since Dave is here

let's get right to it with the Pittsburgh Steelers and Greg Rosenthal will be the man asking the question my question for the group and we'll start with Dave is do we think Ben Rathesberger still has an MVP type of season in him well I if we can pick up where last season started until the

time of his injury that, well, I don't know if that was overstating things to say it almost killed him, but until that point, he really was having an MVP type season. I mean, the Steelers in 2012 obviously were a flawed team, and yet they were positioned pretty well. They were an almost certainty for the playoffs until that injury. So I guess based on that, yes, talent-wise and everything else, the problem is, of course, is what he's got going on or what he doesn't have going on in terms of past catchers. Antonio Brown, your number one wide receiver. Don't know if I buy that one.

Heath Miller, we don't know where he's going to be. So the piece is surrounding him bring into question how effective he can be and how effective the offense can be. You had Antonio Brown on the Dave Damashach football program, correct? I did. In fact, I had Ike Taylor on and the shutdown corner, of course, and we'll have that for you early next week. So be on the lookout for that.

Cross promotion right here. That's how you doing. And also another corporate word is synergy, and that's what we have going on right now. Ike Taylor, AFC North stalwart. You know, now you guys are previewing the North. You see how one hand watches the other. It's perfect. Yeah, I said to Ike exactly what we're talking about.

I said Antonio Brown, I like him very much. He's been terrific, you know, more consistent even than Mike Wallace over the last few years. But is he a number one wide receiver? And he said, you damn right he is. And, you know, God, I'll take him over. I'll take him one-on-one over anybody in the league. I said, well, he's not as good as A.J. Green. And he said, yes, he is.

I assume that this is being supportive of a teammate. And I don't know how much you can read into it. Beyond that, I think the fact of the matter is at a time in the NFL where our pal, Warren Sapp, says the middle of the field is the auto bond now, the Steelers have no fast cars, aka no tight ends to take advantage of that. So it's, you know, I am skeptical of what the Steelers' offense is going to look like this year. The Steeler fan is down a little bit around the country. Not just you, though. I mean, the average Steeler fan seems down in the dumps. Yeah, I feel like Tennessee probably has the biggest range of possibilities that I could see Tennessee going four and 12.

I could also see them going to the playoffs. In fact, as a glass-fool sort, I will put them into the playoffs. But I think the Steelers and the Ravens, as a matter of fact, have a big range in that regard. I mean, I could see the Steelers a seven and nine, six and ten bunch, but then again, it wouldn't stun me the way the last, you know, 15 years or so have gone for this team. They don't stay down long, so I wouldn't be stunned to see them back back. As a quick aside, we, the Around the League team, everyone, their desks got moved around today. And we got moved to a section now that gets us very close to where Warren Sapp saddles up every once in a while

when he makes his special visits to the newsroom. It's got louder in our area now. You better watch out, man. I will. Well, you know what? I'm not going to say anything bad. Warren Sapp Hall of Famer, great man. But Shaq, who came in, walks right up to Sapp.

They have a rapport. You guys are kind of boys. That's a Hall of Famer. I'm a human being. I went up to him and said Musseltove on the Hall of Fame speech and everything. Did you have fun? I encourage you, nay, I demand as another citizen of earth that you do the same as soon as this podcast ends. Who are you? You don't go over to them and say, hey,

nice work, fellow. Oh, I should kiss the ring, you're saying. I don't, that's not kissing the ring. Do you say of any job in the world? Hey, I heard something good happen for you. Good for you, Bob. Well, I guess, I guess sap with sap is, you know, a little intimidating. You're a sap, sir. You're being a sap. He's Warren's Sapp. Hall of Like Sapp likes to mix it up. I mean, we were talking Tannahill the other day, me and a guy on the desk, and he just jumps in there. He's like, you're wrong.

And he tells me why I'm wrong. He misunderstood what I was saying. But it's still like that he was, he cared about it. Did you correct him? Yeah, it was actually, he was trying to say that I was too down on Ryan Tannahill, which is like the- We know that's not true. Right. It's the opposite of reality.

Personal Unitas. Right. But I just like the fact that he cared enough to like jump into our conversation and just get in the mix. Okay. So, all right. Sorry for that little. tour. But let's move on.

So we've got the Steelers. Wes, why don't you give us a little bangles question? Well, I promised you guys a mind-blowing stat. Here it is. Only two quarterbacks in NFL history, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning have more touchdowns through two seasons than

Andy Dalton. Is this the Andy Dalton we're getting this year, or are we getting the guy who crumbles down the stretch and disappears in the playoffs? Judging, by the way, you said crumbles, I know how you feel. anti-Bangles, as always. He's in the closet. I don't know if, Shaq, if you knew this,

but Wes is in the closet as a Bengals fan, but he said he swore off the team because of the ownership. No, of course. I am familiar with Wes. He joined us on the podcast last week, I think it was. He's one of my... Listen, schedules get muddled, and that's what happened. But listen, Wes is one of my favorite editions of 2013 to the NFL. I love his homespun ways.

And I find it, I find it charmed. What is that code for? I think you can read between the line. I lived on an island before I came to L.A. Every, there's big buildings out here. Fancy cars. I like it. I love that I've turned into gummer pile.

Have you ever eaten? You ever, I heard about it in movies. You heard about this sushi? That's pretty close to the truth. No, listen. And if you want to hear any more, this impersonation just come down to our newsroom. Dave will be doing it for hours while we try to work. Now that his NFL AM impressions are no longer useful, he just goes.

Let me tell you this. Let me tell you this, Wes. I understand any Bengals fan cynicism, but, and this is not the hard knocks effect happening to me. Every year, of course, when you watch the show, the producers of it are incented to make the team compelling. Ergo, you come away with it thinking, wow, this is a, what a collection. How does this team not win the Super Bowl? In this case, though, I really buy the Bengals. And Andy Dalton is the lone question, save maybe Drake or Patrick and some issues on that

back end in the defense. But, you know, they have the best front seven bar none in the NFL, right? They have some nice pieces in the secondary at least. On offense, a good offensive line, two good and different kind of runners, dynamic back in Bernard potentially. The pass catchers are everywhere. Sanoo gets hurt, but when he does last year in his rookie season, he's starting to shape up as being a legitimate option there.

And then you have the AFC's version of Calvin Johnson. Unless Andy Dalton is just an abject bum, you know, it's not that he certainly doesn't have to be some electric QB. He just has to be, again, one of those guys who's capable. He has to be in the top half of the quarterbacks. I think he's going to put up a big number. He's not. He hasn't been.

I put him right in the middle there. I put him right in the middle. And let's assume that given that he can't rely on a lot of the QBs that have had their big breakouts in the last couple of years can all almost across the board rely on running away from trouble. And that creates an extra issue for defenses to contend with. They don't know what that guy's going to do. There's been a league-wide attempt to react to the running quarterback when the plays are designed to do that. obviously Andy Dalton isn't going to be that. He also doesn't have a rifle for an arm.

But like I say, if you keep them upright with that running game, with those weapons, that offense is going to score a lot of points. I like them from a fantasy standpoint even and beyond. I think that team is the class of the AFC this year. See, I disagree with you on Dalton. And I'll tell you why, because I think you talk about low floor, high ceiling type quarterbacks where you just sort of don't know what you can get. But if he's on, he's going to take your team real far.

Dalton, I feel like he's not going to vary too far from one game or one season to the next. He's not going to be a bum, but he's not the guy that they're going to be a situation where Dalton has to rescue them out of a dark place. I just haven't seen that from him. And in two big, and I know I always harp with you, Dave, on that Bengals, Texans playoff matchup, which was a complete snooze fest. But that to me is Andy Dalton in a big spot. I welcome for him to prove me wrong, but in two big playoff games, he went to sleep.

and I don't see him as a playoff or a Super Bowl-type quarterback at this point. You're making the exact same point I was going to make, and I'll borrow something from Chuck Klosterman, where he says some things are underrated, some things are overrated, some things are properly rated. Andy Dalton is properly rated to me. He's like a 15th to 17th best quarterback in football. I don't really see him ever ascending much higher or lower than that.

I think he's a middle of the pack quarterback. Put a great team around him, the team could still be a real playoff contender, in my opinion. That's overrated. He's not that good. I'm with Greg. He's not even a middle of the pack. He's not even 15th. No, I don't think so.

I could come up with 20, I think, before you get to. Does anyone not remember last December every game that Andy Dalton played? He just sat there and held the ball. Against the Eagles was awful. In that playoff game, I mean, that was one of the worst playoff performances you could have. Let's not forget who their head coach is. In a big spot, Marvin Lewis, game management, that's that the guy that you want running the ship.

So I think when your head coach, he's good at running a team, but he's not a great kind of game day coach. And your quarterback's Andy Dalton. To me, he hasn't shown that he's even that middle tier. I'd much rather have a guy like, let's say, Jay Cutler, who probably would be middle of the pack. Well, first of all, I will say that while it's a facile sort of comparison, year to year, though, would we have said anything different about the way you just described Andy Dalton? What would anybody have said about Joe Flacco? Except Flacco had won a number of playoff games already.

And he has a big arm. I get that. And that's a valid point. But what you said specifically, this is completely anecdotal. I know this is one time. But when the season was on the line for the Bengals in the final seconds in Heinz Field against a good defense statistically, it wasn't just a big game. But he hadn't scored. He was a terrible example.

He was awful. I know he was. I absolutely know he was. was lousy for the bulk of that game. But with 20 seconds left on the clock, potentially even in the season, he threw a strike on a tough, I mean, a tough throw to the sideline.

We've seen Mark Sanchez do that over and over again, and nobody's talking about him. They put that team into the playoffs. All right, all right. Sanchez could be a good comp. I like that. Birds in their nest degree, please. We got to keep moving here.

All right, let's move on now. Browns, he talked about them at the top of the show, but I will now pose a question, and it will tie back into Whedon because I like in the newsroom Wes and Mark were getting a little catty with each other while I was trying to bang out content about Weidden. I am going to say that this to you,

since I have now hopped on the bandwagon, I'm saying 31 touchdowns, 90 to 92 rating, 4,300 yards. Am I crazy to think that Brandon Whedon could become a top tier? Not top tier, mid-to-top-tier quarterback in the next three years. I don't know if you're being sarcastic. Dan lives in a world where there's only 20 quarterbacks. Randy Dalton is ranked 15th, And there's only four or five below them.

Everyone throws for 4,300 yards. I mean, suddenly Brandon Whedon would be Tom Brady then. I listened to our podcast where we did the records predictions and I thought everybody was playing a little safe. I'm going to be the guy that goes out and says, Weiden steps up, becomes a big playmaking quarterback. But am I crazy? Sounds like I am.

Yes. I just, listen, I think the problem with Cleveland is that something happens to that team every season where by week four or five, the roster has been absolutely, plagued with injuries. We're already seen it. And there's just not enough depth around him. I look at these other teams

like the Ravens. They can lose a bunch of players and still survive the season. They did it last year. They lost Suggs. They lost Ray Lewis for a stretch. They found their way out of that. Cleveland hasn't learned to do that and I just don't see Whedon as a guy that can command that kind of, you know, leadership

from week to week. Here's the problem with Brandon Wheat. He's the fourth oldest guy on the roster and he shouldn't be in a condition in his NFL career where he's still developing. He was inaccurate last year. At 6'4, he led the NFL and batted passes, and he showed poor pocket presence.

How am I supposed to believe that a guy who's 30 years old is going to get better? Norv Turner. Still 29. That would be the argument, is Norv Turner. I think the quarterback whisper. But why is Norv Turner the reason, his absence, the reason that Philip Rivers

a race last night is going to improve and have a revival, but then Norv Turner and Cleveland, his presence there is the reason that Whedon's going to grow. I mean, that doesn't make complete sense. Yes, it does. Because the offensive line was such rubbish in San Diego. North Turner requires that his QB hold the ball for an extra half second when the offensive line is atrocious,

especially with that weirdo throwing motion and diminished arm strength for Phil Rivers. I don't care what anybody there says. He obviously ain't spinning it the way he was in the first five to seven years of his career. now you got, I think this plays obviously right into Wheaton's hands is a guy who can push it downfield. I would liken him to, I mean, big play, QB, yes. You know, he'll be like Jay Schrader. I know that's not a compliment, but I bet you we'll see plenty of highlights over the course of the season of him hitting Gordon for a big one. The problem is he'll throw some picks as well. I think you nailed it though, Sessler. Why the kind of, why this weird controversy? Why would

why is it anybody, is anybody actually looking at Jason Taylor? It's because the franchise, the coaching staff and beyond don't want to own Whedon. And that's Wes. That actually is, yeah, that's Wes. They ought to hang a banner from their team headquarters saying both Campbell and Whedon are eminently available for draft picks right now. Well, our former colleague was on record, and that's the general

manager of the team of what he thought about Brandon Whedon. Right. I mean, and they've tried to kind of back away from those comments, but Michael, I mean, he said what he said. It was a lousy draft pick. The offense fits him, though, right? It does. It does. And actually, I mean, it's really Whedon's opportunity to change minds.

I think that, you know, you go back a month ago, everyone that's visited this team over training camp says Cleveland's not sold on Whedon. They don't believe he's the guy. They're already looking at the draft next season. Now, if Whedon continues to play and grow, yeah, you know, they're going to adapt to that. But right now, the thinking, I don't think in Cleveland

is this is our guy for the long haul. You guys just wait. Just get ready for the big season. And by the way, on defense, the individual pieces, again, it's all about these days, it seems to me that the idea of the notion of a shutdown defense that holds the other team to 10 points or fewer is, you know, out the window largely. They have at least playmakers. What you want are guys that can take it away a little bit,

and that's exactly what they have all over the field now. They could be very good on defense, and Ray Horton was a huge addition. I mean, they could be right there with everyone else in this division on defense. Okay, let's move on to the defending Super Bowl champions, Baltimore Ravens. All right. When I look at the Ravens, I guess we're a little quarterback heavy, but I look at what Flacco did from basically the start of the playoffs through the Super Bowl. He erased everyone's negative feelings about him for that month. He was supreme. But now we're at the start of a new season. And as Flacco goes, the Ravens go to some degree. I think that defense is arguably better than they were last year, younger. Will Flacco at the end of the season? What will we think about him? Will we think he? It's the guy we thought he was before the playoffs last year, or does he grow from where he was? I think Greg made the great point when Pitta got injured originally,

which is this is a guy who was shown that he could carry a team in the playoffs that has shown flashes of being the guy, but now for them really to be real contenders, he needs to carry this team. He needs to show he could do. That four-game run he had was as electric as any quarterback is going to play. I mean, remember, we were there sitting at the Super Bowl. You could not have played a better half of football

than Joe Flacco did in that first half. I mean, he was incredible. I tend to think he's going to be kind of like Eli Manning after he won the Super Bowl, especially the second time, and carry it over and be better. It might not show up with great, great statistics, but I think he's ready to be better over the course of the season. You can extend that stretch longer than four games.

He was, I think, had a 106, 107 passer rating and a 15 to 1 touchdown interception ratio from the time Cam Cameron was replaced by Caldwell and I agree with you it does remind me a little bit of Eli Manning I think he can be even better than Eli Manning but I expect him

I mean obviously he's going to struggle a little bit early in the season without Pitta and Bolden were his two best possession receivers last year he's going to struggle without a go-to receiver but I expect him to keep getting better and to kind of stabilize and keep at this top 10 quarterback

level. I think he's with the way we regard them, statistically, fantasy, and otherwise, I guess that's a good gauge is how he finishes in fantasy numbers, but in terms of practical wins and losses. You're such a fantasy guy now. Well, listen, there's a way to gauge them. But by the way, I'm under Fabiano too long. Here's what I'll say to you, Rosenthal. I agree.

It's funny when you start throwing out or anybody throws out, like, is this guy a top 10 QB or whatever? everybody always just sort of skews to like yes he is he's in the top ten well yeah that's easy to say in a vacuum but let's list them out and actually see if he finishes in your top ten once you actually put the names down in front of you on a piece of paper then they tend to fall out i think he's not in the top ten qb's one and two i feel like as great as he was in the month of january anquan bolden made i've said this a million times before and now i shall say it for the million and first he made so much many strong catches, physical catches in traffic that made Flacco look good to some degree and made the difference in not just the Super Bowl, but specifically the Super Bowl. And beyond that, Dennis Pitt, I mean, look in terms of just raw numbers, Pitta and Bolden, how many of the touchdown passes that he threw in the postseason were caught by those two guys.

They're not there now. Tori Smith is very good, obviously, the speed and everything else. Can he catch the ball consistently? He hasn't shown an ability to do that. I feel like Joe Flacco is a fine QB. I will say he's certainly in the top half of the quarterbacks in the league. But I don't think he's – I know everybody loves the adjective elite. I don't put him into that category, even though I'm not exactly sure what it means.

Okay. Okay, so let's now go around and pick the records for the AFC North. Okay? we will start with Mark Sessler. All right, I go Pittsburgh to win this division. Wow. It's like you were just deciding that as you were saying it. I was.

11 and 5 with a rebound year. They do this. Whenever they have a bad year, they come back and they, the Steelers don't slum for long. 11 and 5. Baltimore, 10 and 6. Bengals, 9 and 7, Browns, 4 and 12.

Jeez. All right, Wes. I also have the Steelers winning the division at the same record, 11 and 5. Bengals, 10 and 6. Tied with the Ravens for 10 and 6. All three teams make the playoffs.

And Brown's bringing up the rear at 4 and 12. No love for the Brown. I felt like Mark was just being harsh on himself because it's his team setting the bar low, but someone's got to lose those games if you got the top heavy. Greg, let's hear you.

I thought I was being cool, you know, coming up with the Steelers winning the division. Now we all have the Steelers winning the division. The Steelers are apparently the favorites, Damashek of the division. I got them at 11 and 5, Ravens at 10 and 6. Bengals at 9 and 7, not in the playoffs, and the Browns with 5 wins, 11 losses. Okay, I have the Bengals at 11 and 5 winning the division. I got the Browns going 9 and 7, taking that number 6 seed in the playoffs, led by Brandon Whedon's all-pro season. I feel like you just jumped on the base.

Like, yesterday, it was a bum now this one preseason game. He may not be so good. I was heading in that direction, and then he got me yesterday. Ravens also 9 and 7, and the Pittsburgh Steelers, 7 and 9. Check, we did not give you time to plan this, but do you want to take a crack at what do you think the record is? I gave him a heads up. I say this. The Bengals go 12 and 4.

They win the division. Like I say, you talk about Cessler laments the previous two post seasons with Texans and Bengals. Get ready, Football America, because that's. at your AFC title game this year. Wow. In fact, I'm contemplating going with, I know this isn't final, but I am contemplating going with the Bengals against the Falcons in the Super Bowl, and that would be a nightmare for marketing reasons for the network and beyond. That would be.

Fox would not be excited about Dalton Shobb, AFC championship. That's exactly right. Cessler and I were talking about it yesterday, too, that the NFL has gotten, you know, improbably lucky over the last decade. You know, there was the run in, what was it, like, the late 80s, early 90s, where no Super Bowl was ever close. It just seems like there was a decade of blowouts. But lately, they've been almost all good games, compelling Final Four and everything else. This year is the year where it catches up. Now, in the biggest media market in the world, I think this is where it catches up.

It's like, whoever survives the Shob Dalton Showdown gets the impossibly. charismatic Matt Ryan and company in the Super Bowl. Now, back to that. There'll be a blizzard as well probably. Yeah, right. 12 and 4 for the Bengals, they win it. I will say for the Ravens, I think they slide back a little bit to 9 and 7

which really shouldn't stun anybody or, I mean, because really they were very close to not making the playoffs. You know, what was it? The Ray Rice play, fourth and 26. In fact, he only got 4th and 25, but that's fair.

And also, let's not forget that Jacoby Jones won them more than one game with kick returns. I know it counts, but it's not something you can plot going into a game. Well, we can probably rely on six out of our kick return game. Also, Jacobi Jones introduced their preseason game last night by dancing before the game like Ray Lewis. So when you're replacing Ray Lewis with the dancing with the stars fourth runner up or whatever, it's got to go. I think you have to be unusually good, too, to. wait, to come back from a Super Bowl. He's a top 100 NFL player.

And he's an NFL AM Hall of Famer. So, let's tune with respect. Nate Burleson and Jacoby Jones first ballot. I think it's unlikely that, well, first, Jacoby Jones, the most troubling thing to hear if you're a Ravens fan is he's now their number two wide receiver. That's bad news. And so, yeah, so I think they fall back a little bit. Let's say 9 and 7 because I do agree with Cessler that probably the defense is a little bit better. I think it's hard to come back from a Super Bowl win, the hangover that we always hear about.

I think there's some merit to that. I don't think they're that special, a group of players that they can overcome that. All right. The Steelers. We got crystal behind the glass having a panic attack. Steelers will go. Just what they did last year. No, you know what?

I'll bump them up. I'll say, eight and eight. But one caveat. I know you want to go. But let me just say, Trent Dilford, for a name drop, who really understands the X's and O's, of course. I have been saying this since last. season, that with the

Audubon, the middle of the field, and it's a passing league and everything else, I have a hunch that maybe it's as simple as Dan Rooney wanted it to be and the Rooney family likes old school that Yinsers in Pittsburgh like, yeah, get back to running the ball like Franco and like when Mean Joe

was doing his thing. I think that they are positioned to do that. Because defenses are going to be, that the safeties are going to be deeper and so on. And yet they're going to go eight and eight. There's an opportunity to run the ball. If Levy and Bell is terrific, and David DeCastro turns it on the way expected, that line is young and potentially dominant. Maybe they will turn the philosophy back. Trent

Dilfer predicted as much. That said, I don't like some of their pieces on defense. Their secondary is old, old and old and gets heard a lot and so on. So, and then the Browns, I think, are better than probably you guys think, I'm going to say for them, six and ten, seven and nine-ish, You know, with some promising signs going into 2014. So three of us have the Steelers winning the division, two, not even over 500. I have the Bengals winning the division. Right. Two of us have the Bengals.

Oh, right, right, gotcha. That's the kind of division it is. Okay. You're sleeping on Marcus Wheaton, check. I like what I saw. I just don't, trusting rookies. You know, I don't know. That's going to make the difference.

What have you seen in two preseason games or one preseason game that gives you enough confidence? dynamic playmaking ability I hope you're right believe me I hope to be wrong I hope you can throw this in my face in New York City or slash New Jersey in February that won't be the only thing I'm throwing in your face in New York City and we're gonna

awkward Shaq if you would be so kind will you sit in with us for our segment the metrics matrix where we try to guess are you out I'm in he's in he's in he's in we're going to try to guess Greg our editor-in-chief is going to give us

four choices three choices excuse me three choices for stories that we have posted on around the league. It will be our job as a group to pick which one did the best in terms of page views. Is that how we do it? Is it unique visitors or? I guess it's page views. When I say this is fun, I mean for you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know what unique visitors is. I just threw that out there. But okay, so have at it, Greg. Well, I'll throw in a fourth. And this is America's, they love it. This is their favorite running segment we have so far. We love the response. Let's start off with...

It's a stretch, but all right. Well, it's the only seven. Carrie Williams, back on the list for a second straight week, says the Philadelphia Eagles defense is soft. That's option, number one. I will throw in a fourth option. Why not, Dan? Number two on the list is Gino Smith had a brutal practice

according to Rex Ryan. That's option number two. By the way, the sound effects you're hearing in the background, worked on that with Crystal this morning so congratulations for your segment just got a little more exciting great job Dan thank you congratulations to you for all the

self-congratulation um Devery Henderson cut by the New Orleans Saints is option cut by the Redskins of course I was opining he might join the Saints Devery Anderson cut by the Redskins is

option number three and then option number four Robert Meacham body has broken down. San Diego Chargers, wide receiver, Robert Meacham's body

has broken down, which, and they all... Can I ask, was that last one? That was the one you just threw in? If I gave that away, it would kind of give away everything. Sounds good.

A lesser strategist would have shared that information. I would have had you. Dang. All right. So we've got two former New Orleans Saints wide receivers featured, but to review,

Carrie Williams says the Eagles are soft. That's number one. Gino had a brutal practice, according to Rex. Devery Henderson, cut by Mike Shanahan and the Redskins, or Robert Meacham's body has broken down. That's option number four. Let's go around the room here. Dan.

This is a good one. I know the Saints fan base. They're very fervent, so I think they could be it, but I don't think either of those stories were big enough that it would be either of those. Let's say Gino Smith, brutal. Pretty good. But I will go... Dan always picks a post that he wrote. I will go with Carrie Williams, saying the Eagles are soft.

All right, that's Dan. Wes? Well, I've already conceded that this game is way too wily for me. I can't figure it out. I do know, however, just a few months into my career with NFL, that the media cares much more about what's going on with the Jets than fans do. So it can't be Gino Smith brutal. Good job.

I'm going with, even though you appeared to try to slip us up by throwing this in at the end, I'm going with Robert Meechon's body is broken. All right, Wes goes with Meecham. I'm going with Hansis on this, Carrie Williams. Carrie Williams, who got people wrong last week, tripped up a couple of people. I like to make the same mistake twice. And Damashik. I agree that it is the Eagles.

this is based on, with this game each week, I would just play to which fan bases seem to respond to the most stuff. Philadelphia Eagles fans obviously jump in on that stuff and you're mixing in the world champion Ravens and their, uh, and they're, uh, zealous fan base. That combo puts that over the top. All right. Well, Mark, Dan, and Damacheck all answer Carrie Williams and you are all wrong for a second straight week Williams

trips you guys up got us again that was boikin last week oh was it well whatever let's not let's not just be sticklers and uh

Chris Wesleyan you are to Robert Meacham and you are absolutely correct yes I have defeated I did it what do I get

I'm gonna drink in on the moonshine early to Wow. All right. We need to start tracking these, and we'll have maybe the winner gets a prize of some kind. We're at a time. Shaq, thank you so much for joining us. What a pleasure. What a pleasure. It's a terrific podcast, and it's already become a regular part of my rotation in the podcasting world. Anything you want to plug on your end? Well, the Ike Taylor, kibitzed with him, Swaga, as you know him from Monday Night Football when he says his name.

He was delightful. We talked about whether or not he'd ever date a woman named Tina. That was one of the questions. And then we got into some Steelers-centric conversation otherwise. Good stuff out of number 24 then. Look for that early next week. All right. So we'll be back on Monday.

We'll do the AFC South preview. And hopefully you'll join us then. Thank you for listening. Do you know what that term means, Crystal? Because I just learned it from Wes. Say it again? I mean, I've never heard it really before, but I can put it together. Is it when you, like, don't have an undershirt on?

It's just a guy with... It's like a guy with boobs. It's just like mobs. Yeah. Oh, I thought it was like a specific brand of like man boobs. Yeah, it is. They're not like that big. They're just kind of...

They just show up to your shirt a little bit. You don't have... Yeah, they're just kind of... You don't have a washboard. They're not even really saggy. They just kind of stick out a little bit and then hang. Can we add this to the end of the podcast? Feel free.

Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

Everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet.

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