NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL ATL: 2014 QB rankings

Episode Date: July 3, 2014

A room full of heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler -- react to the latest NFL news including the Bills' Kiki Alonso's season-ending injury, Jimmy Graham's tight end ruling and more. The fantastic four also compare and contrast Wesseling's quarterback rankings' list with that of NFL coaches and executives. Lastly, find out which power running back is "Making the Leap".Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the League podcast. Abides by the AD scale, except for Dan Hansus, who just doesn't get it. It's really not that hard. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the League podcast. My name is Dan Hansus. I am joined by a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal, and Chris Wessling.

What up, boys? Hey, Dan. We are just excited because Chris was just mentioning, we are in this makeshift, blasted out death star of a studio, and it's been six degrees in here. Episode after episode, but we got some heat lamps in here today. Well, there aren't actual heat lamps, but, right? Some lights. Yeah, some lights. So we're continuing to, listen, Studio 66 is not ready yet, but we're getting closer day by day, right, Black Tie?

Yeah, thumbs up, so we're getting closer to that. but um black tie got caught eating some sushi store-bought sushi while doing the podcast that's fine an ale avocado roll how is it pretty good can't do shellfish so oh really my go-to other than spicy to her but carry on carry on okay okay so yeah so we're we're still in studio four until we get back to studio 66 we have gentlemen a great show we are of course we've moved on as a nation from the loss, the USA lost in the World Cup on Wednesday. They lost...

Tuesday. Made a big impact then, Dan. Made a huge impact on me, personally. The country has already moved on, I feel like. Everybody's wondering about LeBron where he's going to end up. Somehow, the United States has overcome this devastating loss. So we're okay, right? Well, frankly, we didn't deserve to go as far as we did.

That's fair to say. We're not much different than we were, like, 30 years ago when everyone said this was coming, that we're going to be a great soccer nation. We had as many shots on goal the whole tournament as Belgium dig yesterday. Oof. Heat. Soccer analysis. Heat.

Dan was crushed. I was, Dan took the loss hard yesterday in the office. We watched it. I took it initially pretty tough. But then Damshik also laid out a scenario whereby the U.S. could win the World Cup in exchange or the Jets

could win 10 games. And that doesn't guarantee the playoffs, it just they would win 10 games. I took the Jets. Well, he said win that World Cup game and maybe one more. I don't think he said the whole thing. Well, just a spoiler alert, it still wouldn't have changed my answer. But it was fun to watch. It was fun to get into soccer for a while.

I said I would take a generic two wins for any NFL team that I could apply to, like, the Jaguars if I felt like it, over winning that game. Wow, that's just unpatriotic less. I hope they would win, but, I mean, The football season will last months. This lasts like a week. The Gold Standard is rolling over in his grave right now. He's not dead.

By the way, read the Gold Standards. He wrote a column about the USA game, and you should read it, look him up at That Dent and Yank. You know, he does great stuff, smarter than all of us. Nice show today. Very nice show, gentlemen, because we're going to talk about quarterbacks. What's better than talking about quarterbacks? Everybody loves talking about quarterbacks,

where they stack up their rankings and is this, special occasion today kind of worked out the stars in line that Chris Wessling wrote his preseason quarterback rankings. We put that up Tuesday on the website. And then today over on ESPN, Mike Sando, one of their writers, spoke to a bunch of NFL officials and coaches and front office type people. And they put together, he put together a tiered list of his own rankings for quarterback. So we're going to talk about both lists and just get it out there, get all the discussion, get the juices flowing. Sando saw the Wesleyan piece. He felt the heat. He thought he'd have to rush his thing out.

Tasty tank. He just was stepping on to West's corner. ATL moves the needle. I like that. We're also going to continue our making the leap series as we go deeper into the top ten. We're going to go over two players with pieces that were originally written on our website by Chris Wesleyan and Mark Sessler. NFL.com slash making the leap. To see all the making the leap, guys, guys, we anticipate going the next level as play.

players this year. But before any of that, folks, we're going to throw it over back to TD. And by the way, TD, I just want to run something by you real quick while we're here. Damashek came up to me last week in the office and made a comment along the lines of, why are you calling him TD? We should be calling him Black Tie. It's confusing the listeners. So I said to him, you know what? I will go to TD on the issue and let him decide whether he wants to be Black Tie or TD on the show. the guys where I see it Black Tie is sort of a DGFP character And you know that you know

It goes back the whole Tyrak thing With the producers on that show And you know this is a different show You know you guys do great work here And I'm glad to be a part of the team And TD is my name You guys go all by first names here It's not a nickname team

So we don't need any gimmicks But I mean if sometimes you call me Black Tile like you almost did there I'm fine with that too Okay and you should also know Damashx seems to be There does seem to be some moderate heat between the two podcasts.

As we expected, how do you feel? Do you feel kind of like the kid caught in the middle of a divorce of something like that? Mostly not, you know. Damn shit always feels like, you know, someone's coming after us. You're going to hear about that. All right, TD. Let's do some news. Yes, we can.

I like that. A little patriotic theme, obviously, July 4th weekend. I like that. That's present. You know, President Barack Obama. Maybe I should set it up differently, though. Let's try it again. Hey, TD, can we do some news?

Yes, we can't. I like the TD does homework. That's a keeper. He sure does. I love that one. July 4th coming up Independence Day for America. All right, we'll start in Buffalo some tough news, very bad news for the Buffalo Bills, who suffered a big loss when it was announced that linebacker Kiko

Alonzo will likely miss the entire 2014 season after suffering a torn left ACL. The injury was suffered during a workout in Oregon. Alonzo, who had underwent surgery in the offseason on his hip, now injures the knee, and after an extremely promising 2013 season, is a very good chance, almost a definite chance. We're not going to see him at all in 2014. Terrible blow for the Buffalo Bills. Greg and Mark and I had a bit of a debate in the newsroom on how much of a loss this is for the bill's team. Basically for prognostication purposes, does it take them out of like a sleeper status for a playoff berth?

Does it cost them a couple of wins, one win? I think it's a huge loss. I think it's tough to say one player in the ultimate team sport is going to cost a team more than a win. Even that seems like a lot. But what Alonzo's injury reminds me of, and he was such a great player as a rookie, is that this is a defense that's changing schemes. It's changing away from a defensive coordinator that had a lot of success last year. And I'm just worried that even though they're talented,

they're not going to be nearly as good on defense this year as they were last year. And we had talked about the bills a couple weeks ago as a team that on paper might have more talent outside of the quarterback position than they're, AFC's rival Patriots. But this shifts that, I think. This is a key loss. A, they lost, Jaris Byrd in the back. Huge loss.

You're losing all you guys up the middle. Your defensive coordinator that, I think, flipped the switch on that defense last year in terms of the pass rush, franchise record for sacks. There's a lot of variables all of a sudden. To be fair, Jim Schwartz has done well as a defensive coordinator. I think he's a good defensive coach. It's not like they're bringing in a bum, but I think the change on defense, plus the fact that, oh, by the way, that offensive staff has no track record of any success in the NFL at barely any time in the NFL.

One thing about Schwartz's defense, Kiko Alonza was switching from middle linebacker to weak-side linebacker because that's the position in which all the plays are funneled in Schwartz's defense. So Alonzo was the guy. He was supposed to be the centerpiece of that defense, and now he's gone. They do have some depth, though. Nigel Bradham, who will probably replace him. pretty well for them. When he's been in the lineup, they brought in Brandon Spikes. They have Keith Rivers, which is a pretty generic starter. It's not the worst linebacker group, but the front seven doesn't look nearly as exciting. Yeah, I just look at the bills, though, and how much

patience will there be when you've got a coaching staff that used a first round pick on E.J. Manuel. They've now lost their best defensive player after losing what arguably was their best defensive player before that and free agency. This is a rough situation for this team. Well, I'd hold off, though. I'd rather have three of their defensive linemen than Alonzo. I think losing Darius for a long time, if he was suspended for a long time, would be more devastating. Or Mario Williams or Kyle Williams. I mean, this is still a great defensive line.

I disagree with that. They have enough depth on the defensive line that you can replace those guys. They don't have anybody like Kiko Alonzo a linebacker. Yeah, Mark also, he did mention, of course, Jarris Baird. Jairos Bired. T.D., you had a thought? I did. You know, it's tough out here these days for, you know, the young white inside linebackers.

You know, Sean Lee went down. Alonzo's going down. Hot take. Luke Kigley. Watch out. See, you can say that. We can't make these sort of racial jokes. You, TD, you have a cessler about, watch out, Kikley.

White inside linebackers. That music is apt to what feels like a bad script about someone that's going around with real anger issue towards NFL inside linebackers and using this offseason to just get rid of them by one. To be fair, Darrow Washington and Sean Weatherspoon also both not going to play this season doesn't quite fit into your theory, but I like

you're getting creative. Also, Kiko Alonzo and outside linebacker. Well, now. Well, you know, whatever. He passed you. That's not good. Not last year. The position he's going to be. Not last year, though. Arbitrator Stephen Burbank ruled Wednesday that New Orleans Saints starred Jimmy Graham

Burbs. Burbs. Burbs drops Hammer rules that Jimmy Graham is indeed a tight end. This is according to NFL Media Insider Ian Rappaport and Albert Breer. Graham, of course, had filed a grievance arguing that he deserved to be designated as a wide receiver under the franchise tag because he had spent more time in the wide receiver-type positions than a tight end. This costs him something in the neighborhood of $5 million when you compare the franchise tag of a tight end to a wide receiver.

obviously a big deal for Jimmy Graham. It was treated as the biggest news of the history of the NFL this morning when I came in. I can't quite get behind it as being that notable, but I get it from a business aspect. This is big news. Jimmy Graham loses out. Burbank cited the fact that Graham lined up within four yards of the line of scrimmage for the majority of snaps. I like that Jimmy Graham cited on his own Twitter bio that he was a tight end. I think that was sufficient enough.

That was wild. they actually used that against him and in the ruling against them. That's what he is. That was cited. Well, one of the things that really stuck out to me, I think Sean Payton said it, he said Graham is covered by linebackers, a good chunk of the time. And someone did the numbers, 30% by linebackers, 30% by safeties, 25% to 30% cornerbacks. No wide receivers are ever covered by linebackers.

So that's a pretty strong way to look at it. We've talked about this on this podcast. This is what tight ends are. Sometimes they line up out wide, sometimes they line up in the slot. Sometimes they line up online as a traditional tight end. The problem is they need to come up with a hybrid designation under the franchise cap. Because it is unfair to people like Jimmy Graham. That's fair, but I think that number is going to rise.

It's fair that it's unfair. I'm saying his point is fair. That's a good point. Well, and no one franchises an inline tight end. Pro football folks just franchised Ben Hartsock. This number of franchise tags will go up because Dan mentioned this could cost Graham $5 million, but that's only if he signs the franchise tag tender, and I don't expect that to happen. They have until July 15th to sign Graham to a long-term deal.

They've already offered him more money, reportedly, than Rob Garnkowski gets as the highest paid tight end in the league, which is very good money. It's wide receiver money, and I see no reason why now that this little extra bit of leverage was added to the Saints, they can't come to terms. I guess it just sets a precedent for all these other tight ends like your Eric Ebron, who's come to the NFL and before he's played a snap is already talking about how he deserves to be paid down the line. But yeah, at the end of the day, for Jimmy Graham, what does it mean?

He'll end his career with 68 million in earnings instead of 73 million potentially. He owns a house with 15 rooms, not 12 or not 17 at this point, but Jordan Cameron would have been franchised after this season potentially. Yeah, I think, guys, you mentioned Eric Ebron, but Vernon Davis' holdout might have been a lot about this case. Vernon Davis was waiting to see what would happen in the Jimmy Graham case. Guys, you're not going to believe this, but I got another message from our producer, TD, who says he has another take to share. Wow. You guys are talking about Twitter bios.

Jimmy Graham noted himself as a tight end. Well, just a heads up. Sessler, Chris Wessler and Dan, you guys are all in your Twitter bios or writers for around the league. So don't never go to Greg trying to get a raise for being a talent. Wait, I did say, I like that. My Twitter bio says naysayer on the Around the League podcast. That's true, too. We mentioned the podcast, but you have used our own logic against us.

I also believe my- Thank you, T.D. I also believe I have host of the ATL podcast, which I can leverage that to some time of a lockout. By the way, Greg Rosenthal's Twitter bio, football, like a boss. I like that. That's the best Twitter bio out there. I don't want anyone to use anything against me in contract office. Football, period.

Where do you think, what do you think Stephen Burb? Bank does, by the way, the rest of the year. He's just this arbitrator. Like, I imagine him living on top of a mountain with, like, in the clouds and just every every once or two, one or two years, he comes and decrees these things. You don't think he's like a judge, some minor judge somewhere around that? I think there's a condo somewhere on the water where Stephen Burbank and NFL gumshoe, Ted Wells, just hang out and wait for the phone to ring or the bat signal to go out.

And speaking of bat signal, TD sent out the bat signal for Matt Money Smith. We're getting a lot of heat on Twitter. People upset that our money tag intros have not been updated in a while. But first of all, everybody relax. It's the summer, so people aren't always around. So Matt Money Smith is doing his thing. He's very busy man. He has his own radio show in one of the biggest markets in the country. He's probably on vacation somewhere, exotic, I would imagine, as a Matt Money Smith would be. In the NFL studios, he will record lots of money tags. We've got 25 or 30 of them ready to go. So keep sending him. Yeah. Good news and bad news.

Good news. Got Matt Money Smith in studio next week. Some new money tags next week. Bad news, though. Just like the American Dad intro in season one where they had a little headline. That's over all of our heads. Well, they used to have like a headline, you know, contextual, topical headline for each episode. They stopped after season one because you kind of like run out of the good stuff.

So I'm not saying that's going to happen. Oh, how dare you. Yeah, but we have some good ones. We have shoved this responsibility onto our listeners so that won't happen. So if you have an issue with the tags, you could put it on the listenership, but I know they won't let it stand. So it's a little challenge. Yeah, a little bit of challenge.

I like that. You're challenging the audience. Moving forward, hey, Mark, you want to talk a little bit more about Rolando McLean? Here we go, because it ain't over yet. Just when it's over. It ain't over. The Dallas Cowboys have acquired Rolando McLean from the Baltimore Ravens. According to the league's official transaction wire,

the Ravens also included a seventh round pick in the deal, received a sixth-round pick for the trouble. McLean, of course, has been in and out of retirement. He was the former number eight overall picked by the Raiders in 2010. That didn't work out with the Ravens. It didn't work out despite Ozzy Newsom really getting behind McLean. So now he shipped to the Dallas Cowboys, who I guess could use linebacker help,

but this guy's not going to help anybody, right? Well, it's bad news for the bills if they are looking for linebacker help inside or outside that the level of talent out there right now forces Dallas who needed someone to go look at Rolano McLean. I am all about first, second, and third chances, but this guy's on chance number five at this point, it feels like. And you know what? It comes back to Ozzie Newsom, smartest general manager in football, finding a way to get a draft pick out of a total train wreck scenario.

I have a challenge for three of me. He moved up from the seventh to the sixth round. All right. Did he move up? He did. I have a challenge for the three of you and TD. In any other line of work, are you familiar with anyone who was retired twice before the age of 25?

Maybe. It's not a good sign. Gymnastics, do they do that? Gymnastics, tennis maybe. Jennifer Capriotti back in the day, remember? All right, all right. I like where you're going here. I can buy Capriotti.

Jordan did it twice before 40, but 25 is a tall honor. This is not Michael Jordan. Jordan loved basketball. McLean is a little twisted on whether he likes football. Well, maybe the Cowboys are a little more wily than we think. Putting together, listen to this, Mark, I think you'll like it. Rilanda McLean on the same team as Kyle Orton. The two of them together, that could work out.

I don't know. Two negative makes a positive. Yeah. Chris Johnson doesn't seem to be putting too much stock in the off-season talk of a timeshare in the Jets backfield. And a Tuesday conversation with Around the League, Stan Hans, Get your Dan Hanzas Get your Dan Hanzas Wow

I like that Cue up your own music Let's note by the way What is today July 2nd The first time Dan mentions himself In the third person

On the show Dan cues up his own First of many times To come I suspect So Isaiah predicted this Back to Just remember that you're just a writer For Around the League

Shut up guys Let me get back to what I was saying. In a Tuesday phone conversation with Around the League's Dan Hanses, Johnson spoke confidently about being the Jets' primary ball carrier. Here's what Johnson said. Once the season starts and once we're playing, I'm doing my thing, I'm pretty sure if I'm making plays and they're going to want to keep handing the ball off to me. If they want me to continue making plays, I'm pretty sure I can't do that on the sideline.

He also added that, as for the timeshare and all that, it won't be an issue. I'm pretty sure. This comes a week after Jets' running back coach, Anthony, Lynn said that the team needed to limit what they did with Johnson to keep him fresh, given that he has over 1,700 career carries. So the way I took it and the way I, when I spoke to him on the phone during the World Cup match, which he had no idea was going on, by the way, which I found funny. He's like, what's the score?

I was like, no score. He's like, all this talk about the time show, once he gets the ball, he will be the same bell cow guy. He's been. opinions vary on whether that's actually going to happen, though. I guess if you're a Jets coaching staff and you've watched everything about Chris Johnson over the last couple years and you consider him to be a three-down back at this point, I'd be concerned about, as a Jets fan, Dan, I'd be concerned about your coaching staff. I went back and watched his college tape.

There was a college highlight reel that I really liked when he was entering the league. Went back and watched that recently. and he was so much faster, so much more aggressive, so much more physical coming into the league than he's been the last couple of years. The Jets, as we've talked about in this podcast, if they do this right, because he does not have to be a 300-touch guy, if they do this right with Ivory and Johnson with Powell mixed in a little bit, their running games should not be the thing that you're worried about with their offense. It's about the quarterback situation and whether they have enough weapons.

This is a bit of the problem, though, of bringing in guys like Chris Johnson and Michael Vicks, our expectations and managing those expectations if they realize in week four that they're no longer getting the same amount of work or, you know, playing time that they used to get. Yeah, they say like the hardest thing for a coach to do is manage the ego of a former great player who is on the other side of his prime and the Jets have two of those guys and Vic and Johnson. So we'll see how it works out. I'm sure it'll work out.

They've got more than a few. They've got more than a few guys on the other side of the prime. How do you like talking to Chris? Johnson. You know, he seemed moderately engaged, which is more than I could say for other people that I've had phone interviews with. Usually, I talked to Chris Johnson in the NFL Network Studio last year, and he was engaged there on the phone. Sometimes guys check out. Good job by Chris. Was he impressed with your interviewing skills?

Oh, well, clearly. He mentioned that. Oh, yeah. I buttered him up. The first thing I said is CJ 3K, right, buddy? Silence. No, I didn't. I still can't believe Dan referred to himself in the third person twice.

He actually went back to that again. You shouldn't be surprised. This is all, this is all, the morning signs have been out there for a while now. You ask me if I have God, complex? Let me tell you something. I am God. Here's my spirit animal. I'll call them.

All right, let's get into it. You ready? We talked about Chris Wessling's tight end preseason rankings, and I said it. And I said it last show, two shows ago. go, I'll say it every show, every time we bring up Wes's rankings. If you're a football fan, you better be reading what Wesleying's writing with these rankings because the dude's plugged in. Mark Cecil, yes or no?

I would agree 100%. And if you're not a football fan, what are you doing listening to this podcast? Get out. Well, we don't want to go down that road. It just would be a weird move. I would invite anyone who enjoys good conversation to listen to the podcast. And never watch the view. So Chris Wessling now has written,

preseason rankings are quarterbacks, and of course, as I said at the top of the show, ESPN suspiciously rolled out their own rankings less than 24 hours later. So let's get into it a little bit. And we might as well, I guess, start at the very top of the list because it differs right off the top here. And Chris Wessling went with Mr. Aaron Rogers of the Green Bay Packers. Alone at the top was the subhead, which is a bold statement. whereas the ESPN Mike Sandoz story had Tom Brady and Peyton Manning tied at what they called the top tier of quarterbacks.

And Rogers and Breeze. And Rogers and Breeze. And Rogers and Breeze. So all four were at the same level? Yeah, they did it on a rating where he talked to a bunch of people in the league. Basically, they assigned tiers and numbers. It would have been very easy for me to just have a top four. Right.

But you didn't do that, Chris. Because Aaron Rogers is better. Yeah, so tell us why. player in the NFL since his Super Bowl run. He can make all the throws. He can escape the pocket. He can play Sandlot style if he needs to. He can read defenses if he needs to. He can do everything all the

other guys are doing, plus he's more physically gifted and in his prime. You're not bothered at all about the fact that he missed time last year and now is a few years removed from playoff success. None of that stuff worries you at all? He missed time, which would bother me if I was constructing a

roster, and it was between him and Andrew Luck, as we've discussed. But if we're talking about the 2014 season alone, which I believe we are, there's nobody you want rather than Aaron Rogers. He's the best player in the NFL. The gap between him and the rest of the top quarterbacks in terms of athleticism is far bigger than any gap mentally between Manning and Brady and Breeze and Rogers because Rogers doesn't get credit for, but he's that guy that you're looking for that knows the defenses that is winning the game with his head just as much as Well, they say they credit him number one for what he does before the snap, but he's a guy

athletically that can make up. He's unlike some more loafing quarterbacks, he can make up for anything he sees later on. Can I play devil's advocate one more time here with Aaron Rogers? Came back from the injury, the clavicle injury. If he plays better in that first round playoff game, they win. They should beat the Niners. He did not play very well in that game. If Peyton Manning plays better and then Super Bowl, they should beat the Seahawks.

Oh, come on. What do you mean? That's totally different. Stack Aaron Rogers' playoff record up against any of these guys, and is way better. Well, Aaron Rogers is riding a bit of a losing streak in the playoffs. His numbers in the playoffs for his career are way, way better than Peyton Man. But my point is, in that game specifically, a close game where Kaepernick made the plays to move on, Aaron Rogers did not have a very sharp game.

And my point, my answer to that is, in the Super Bowl, Peyton Manning did not have a sharp game. You can take any one game and blow it out of proportion. I think Rogers has had spots where he hasn't been as consistent in terms of dealing with pressure in the pocket. There was a period early in the 2012 season when the pressure wasn't working around him and he started seeing things. Can you name one quarterback about whom that's not true? I think there are players, I think Manning and Brady, especially Brady, early in their career. I would invite you to watch Manning's feet in the Super Bowl. I think even Rogers' biggest back.

Packers fans would admit that he's gone up and down with that. You mentioned this with Brady, too, that he did this last year. Do you know when established superstar quarterbacks start to crumble in the pocket when you take away all their best receivers? Rogers' best receivers have been taken away. His past protection has been iffy. This isn't like a bad sign. It's just what happens to great quarterbacks when things fall apart around them.

He's also about that when he won that Super Bowl, which began the run where you felt he's been the best since. He won it with a fourth of that roster on injured reserves. so let's now jump to all right so you have rogers at the top not surprising the tier right below rogers is brady manning breeze no one's going to argue with you there on the list for the espn list the fifth name in their top tier of quarterbacks is andrew luck of the colts uh west you are very high in luck as well but you have him in the third category of your list which is at pro bowl cal caliber behind ben rothelsberger as well so the espn analysts or insiders are a little higher on luck right now than you are, it seems. No, not at all. I don't think they're higher on him.

I have Luck and Rathusperger basically tied for fifth, and I pointed out in the comments that luck, it shouldn't surprise anybody if luck is behind only Rogers by this time next year. And I think luck was the one I got the most comments on when I ranked that I had him too high,

so it does my heart good to see that executives agree. It's interesting that luck made the first tier from the NFL side of things in terms of the evaluators, because for the most part, on the ESPN list, they knocked the young players. They weren't ready to crown the young quarterbacks too soon, but they're not only saying that luck is there now, they would take him over Rivers and Rathusberger.

It's an interesting question. Who would you rather have this season, Ben Rathesberger or Andrew Luck? Mark, give me a takeaway from this list that you're seeing. Well, and it's something that we talked about with Wesleyan when he put this out is that the big difference between the list that ESPN went out and talked to a lot of executives that have been around the game and looking at quarterbacks a certain way for a long time. And the new wave of quarterbacks, the Russell Wilson's, the RG3s, the Cam Newton's, the more mobile passers. I agree with Wesleyan. He has them higher up in general on his list and believes that that style of play can win football games. And we've seen that that's true with Russell Wilson, RG3.

He's been to the playoffs, and so was Cam Newton. But the ESPN guys, the people he talked to, at least, Mike Sando, seemed very devoted to the more traditional pocket passer. I would say the one surprise I had on the ESPN list was Cam Newton. They have him 15th. I have him way higher. I have Kaepernick higher than they have him, and I have RG3 higher than they have him. And they have RG3 buried. They have RG3 basically tied with Andy Dalton.

I mean, they have Manning, Eli Manning. in the top 10, tied with Romo and Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan, whereas to me, it's not much of a choice between Colin Kaepernick and Eli Manning, Cam Newton or Eli Manning. The one young guy that the NFL executives believe in, other than luck, was Russell Wilson, who was also tied there. But I don't know. I can't see that.

You really starting a team this year would take Eli Manning over those guys? Did anyone watch Eli Manning play last year? Eli Manning could lead the league in interceptions four years in a row, and you wouldn't get a different answer out of a lot of personnel guys. If his name were Eli Billingsley would, and he pulled out, if Eli Billingsley had the last two seasons that Eli Manning just did, would people buy into him? I don't know.

It's the name as much as the two rings. And I think especially personnel men, when they're in that building and they obsess over winning a Super Bowl, when they point to a guy that has two Super Bowl MVP's, I think there's a certain amount of credit that that that guy gets. It's forever. I think that explains that. RG3, I just want to go back to him a second.

This is some interesting quotes about him. This is from Sando's piece. The veteran QB's I consulted separately crushed Griffin in that area about Griffin's personality. He does not take any blame. One of them said. A head coach plays Griffin in the fourth tier of quarterbacks on this list, which is the bottom tier for Sando, and said, I just don't think he could play in the pocket.

So you have the knee issue, whether he'll ever be the same guy he was in his rookie year. plus some issues about or questions about his makeup. So I guess that explains why he's further down than maybe we would have put him. I think it's fair to question whether he's ever going to be a great pocket passer. I think a lot of people have that question. But the question is about whether he takes blame or not. This coming from two veteran questions, it sounds like rumor and innuendo to me. And it's, and it sounds like body language to me.

Hmm. Oh, fair so. Carl Rumor and Chas innuendo. I don't like those guys. This one threw me for a loop. One head coach said he'd rather have Sam Bradford than Russell Wilson purely from a talent standpoint. And if that isn't Jeff Fisher, I'm concerned, because... It was Wayne Fons.

Although Bradford was ranked 21st or something, and Russell Wilson was worth point out. But it just, it goes back to, you know, Russell Wilson's going to have to continue to win people over, I think, because he defies that build. He's 5, 10. They don't like that. They don't like a guy that rumbles around and circles around and does figurates. This head coach sounds a little confused. We're not asking which quarterback you'd rather have from a physical talent standpoint. We're asking which quarterback you would rather have.

This guy just wanted to say he likes Sam Bradford's arm. Robert Griffin, the third, by the way, is tied with Andy Dalton on this list. Imagine how different it would be a year ago. There's no way our G3 would be down that low. But I think it speaks to something I've talked about with you guys. He's the quarterback of all these guys that I think has the most range of possible career outcomes. You could tell me that he's going to be a multiple-time pro bowler and we'll be talking about him for the Hall of Fame someday and that wouldn't surprise me. And he could have a thoroughly mediocre, ultimately middle-of-the-road, disappointing career.

And that wouldn't really shock me that much either. It would shock me if Cam Newton had that kind of career or if Colin Kaepernick did. I agree with you about that. And at the bottom of the list for ESPN, disheartening to see this, Gino Smith at number 32, behind the likes of Jake Locker, 31, It's Patrick. If it's Patrick 30, Brian Hoyer, 29, Matt Castle. Wes, you have a similar take on Gino. I think you kind of give him maybe a little more of a chance in some of the people that were speaking about him in the ESPN article.

Yeah, I think he went through one of the roughest stretches I've ever seen by a quarterback last year. That doesn't bode well, but he also had the game-winning drive against the Falcons. I think he had another game-winning driver, too, that do bode well. I have some questions about him. I don't think he's better than Michael Vick, but we'll. we shall see. Well, I don't think we've seen Gino play with any talent around him either. That's fair. And that was something that would have hamstrung a lot of these young quarterbacks last year. Where would you put Gino, though, Dan?

Probably 28 around there. Who would you bury behind him? I want the name. I want to just give me one or two guys that you would. Okay, I could do that for you. Let me help you out. Matt Schaub. Brian Hoyer. I put Fitzpatrick behind him, Hoyer. Castle? I'd agree with all that. Hennie, maybe? I don't know.

I mean, they're all in that They're in that ugly swamp at the end where you roll your dice. The most surprising name on the list in terms of ranking from the ESPN side to me was Nick Foles, that he was solidly into their second tier ahead of guys like RG3.

One evaluator said, based on what he saw, he put Nick Foles in the top tier, that he was a top five type of quarterback. Do we... You'd be a good quarterback, too, if God was your head coach. They seemed a little split on him.

Right, they were. One guy really liked him, but they put them number 15 right in the middle, definitely a little lower than you. You put Nick Fools in a category called Borderline Franchise, and this is who's in the category. Alex Smith, Nick Foles, Andy Dalton, Palmer, Tannahill, and McCown. And I don't really have a big problem with that, but you have them solidly below guys like Stafford, Cutler, Flacco, Eli Manning. And I would say these two quotes from ESPN's GMs, one GM called Foles, a four. who played like a two. I think that's exactly what I was going for. Referring to the Tiers. Foles could be a Carrie Collins

or Jake Dullum, a three who plays like a two or a four. I think that's about where he is. Let's see who he is after two or three years, not how he did throwing great screens in Chip Kelly system. Wes, before we go, one last question for you. Of this list, who would

be the biggest, who would be most likely to ascend the highest or fall the furthest? That's a good question. Makes a lot. I might have to be prepped for that. How about you're making the... I'll give you some help.

J.A. Cotler! No, no, definitely not. You can beep that out. No. Cutler rising. I would say RG3 could ascend the highest and RG3 could fall the lowest.

Ah, good answer. Backing up Greg's point. All right. I would also like to point out for the last point, a month after ESPN manufactured a debate about Tom Brady falling apart and declining. All the GMs that ESPN interviewed said that's hogwash. Those questioning have lost their evaluating skills.

He's still one of the best, if not the best. Another GM, the best football player quarterback in this league. And what I tweeted out about a week ago after I watched all of Brady snaps, no one not even Brady himself can convince me he's slipping or no longer one of the NFL's best players. Tom Brady, still awesome. I like what I'm hearing. Greg hopping up and down. The gifted life of a Patriots fan.

All right, before we get out of here, let's do a little more Making the Leap Talk. And we initially had not, we planned to skip around a little bit. We weren't going to talk about the Packers making the leap guys on the podcast, but then a Packers fan tweeted at us. And this is the importance of the social media age

and communicating and staying in touch with the listener, said, we want Packers talk. So that's what we're going to do. do. Chris Wessling broke down. Green Bay Packers' defensive ends Dayton Jones and Mike Daniels's two players, he believe, will help fortify that defense and make them take the leap in 2014. And now Chris Wessling, the scientist, the mailman will tell us why. With the impetus for this pairing. Nice word.

Thank you. Happened at the NFL scouting combine when we were sitting there. Mark and Greg and I were sitting in the chairs while McCarthy was talking. and he mentioned Dayton Jones as a guy who's hyper-athletic will make the leap this year. I think he used the words making the jump. So that really perked up our ears

at the time. She doesn't sound as good for the record. Making the leap is superior. That sounds like something you would do over a chasm. Yeah. Make the jump. Come on, McCarthy. Get it together, bro.

So, dude, he definitely doesn't deserve a street being named after. Yeah. Oh, yeah, just one second. This talk of naming a street in Green Bay after Mike McCarthy, everybody calmed down. One ring, not a lot of success.

in the playoffs otherwise i understand vincent lombardy sure mike holmgren and he has one there is a mike i know that one i'm not crazy about but okay they almost come on they almost paved over that street when uh when they saw what happened in cleveland i can't wait till the day when dan encounters mike mccarthy and chip kelly yeah two-on-one in a dark alley and somewhere in northern iowa it is over what's dan doing in northern i that's the biggest question that's the thing i'd be most worried about okay well sorry they also doing um capers children's playground right right near the stadium two to five year olds huh sounds horrible west so dayton jones was on our radar and mike daniels was a guy who kind of jumped off the film last year when you watch the packers and really

i expected for dayton jones to be more impressive because he has a higher pedigree he was the first round pick mccarthy talked him up so much but when you watch the film jones was playing with a high ankle sprain for most of the year. His athleticism wasn't really there. So we're going mostly on what the coaches tell us here. But Mike Daniels is absolutely a monster. He's relentless. He's chasing down quarterbacks from behind, chasing down running backs from behind, stuffing running backs at the line of scrimmage. He drew some comparisons to, or let's, let me put it another way. Ram's first round pick, Aaron Donald, drew some comparisons to Mike Daniels, which tells you a lot about how good Mike Daniels was. He's better than a fourth

round pick, which is what he was coming out of Iowa, in part because he was undersized, and in part because he had a torn labrum in college. That Packers' defense is kind of like the RG3 of defenses in terms of there's a huge range of what I could see. They could be really good on paper. They look like they could be great. And yet, every year I kind of think they're going to be better, and Dom Capers, at least for the last few years, hasn't been able to pull it all together.

It's a good comparison. I said I would be shocked if RG3 doesn't win comeback player of the year award. and I would be shocked that the Packers' defense isn't the most improved unit in the NFL. Does it help Jones to have all this other talent back around him to help him maybe be used in a way that just let's get him to do what he does well? I think so, and I think it can't help or it can't hurt to have Julius Peppers, who's been one of the best defensive ends of the past decade there for pointers. And I think you'll see a lot of nickel packages where they use Daniels and Jones as the two linemen, the rush the passer. So I think the opportunities will be there.

When we're putting them making the leap, though, there's got to be some potential for, stardom. Do you think Daniels has that sort of thing? This problem with this defense is it feels like there's a lot of Bs, B pluses, but not enough star types. I think I could easily see double-digit sacks out of Mike Daniels. He led the Packers in hurries last year, finished in the top five or six of pro football focuses rankings for defensive ends, and that was while we only playing half the snaps. If you can get him up to 70% of the snaps, I think he'll really shine. And one final thought on Dom Capers, who was referenced in regard to his playground earlier, which may be fictional or not.

I'm not sure if you were joking. That's real. Is it real? Children's playground in ages 2 to 5. I like it. I'm actually going on a trip with my family just to visit it. If the Packers defense lets everyone down again, I think Teflon, Dom, will finally lose his job in Green Bay.

He's been there a long time. A lot of bad defenses. We'll see if he can get it together this time. All right, moving forward. That's what his hair piece is made out of Teflon. That's the thought of Greg. Rosenthal, Greg Rosenthal alone. T.D. shaking his head and how did I get involved

with his project? Let's move on to number eight on the list. Number eight, we're in the elite eight, Mark, we'll call it. I made that up. Number eight, Jaguars, running back Toby Gerhardt, who of course signed with the Jags after serving as

the understudy to Adrian Peterson in Minnesota for a few seasons. The Jags are asking Gerhardt to become the type of leadback that can rush for, you know, 1,200 yards or more and be a guy that they could build the offense around on some level. Mark Sessler is in on the Jaguars franchise as a whole. Mark Sessler is all in on the Jags.

13 to 16 wins, I think, is where Mark is at right now. I have not voiced that. So, of course, he's in on Toby Gerhardt making the leap. Mark. Actually, I went in with a suspicious eye because I feel when we talk about this Making the Leap series, Gearhart from the minute he signed with Jacksonville, or really when we talked about him as a free agent, an obvious making the leap type can. candidate because he does have the resume in college.

He was an absolute workhorse for Stanford. Their college coach said that they changed the way that they ran their entire offense because of what he gave them during his junior and senior year. But then he goes to Minnesota. He essentially goes AWOL and vanishes off the planet behind Adrian Peterson. But in the eight times that he played, to fill in for Peterson, he averaged 99.4 yards and 19 touches. I wanted to go, there aren't a lot of snaps.

There were a couple seasons where he only had, you know, 20, 30 carries. There just wasn't a lot of film to watch compared to some of these other guys. But he was impressive because a lot faster for a big guy who's kind of built like an old school full back slash running back type, he has wheels. The guy can move and he's good at breaking tackles. He had a 4.7 yards per carry coming out of the Vikings. I think the challenge for him will be he is not. playing behind that Vikings offensive

line, which has been pretty good over the years and done a good job for Peterson. And I think teams know that if the Jaguars are going to run a Seahawks style offense where he's going to be that Marshawn Lynch-type ball carrier, they're going to line up and they're going to go after him. When we

were preparing for free agency, I was tasked with coming up with a free agency sleepers list and one of the reasons Toby Gerhardt was on it is because outside of questionable lateral agility, He doesn't really have a weakness as a runner. Like you said, he's fast for a big guy, he breaks tackles, he pass protects, he catches the ball well.

He's fundamentally solid, and he has actual second-round pedigree talent. Yeah, it's like when I had to do the obstacles, from the tape I saw, there wasn't this, there wasn't a part of his game. Some running backs can't pass protect. They can't catch. They're not this or that. With him, it was more like the Jaguars are my concerned. They didn't get Alex Mack. That would have been a huge thing for them had they done that.

that can they open the holes for him? My concern is he's not that special of a player, that he's okay, that maybe he's good at doing a little bit of everything. He reminds me a little bit of another backup that got a full-time job and did pretty well, the guy who was in Minnesota before Adrian Peterson, Chester Taylor, different players. I think he's way more talented than Chester Taylor. I don't know.

I don't even think it's closed. I think he's way more talented. See, Caldwell, who was under Dimitrov and part of the Falcons organization, when they hauled in Michael Turner. He dismissed all these ideas that everyone wants to say Gearhart is Peyton Halasor, he's so-and-so. And maybe because he's white, let's compare another white running back. Yeah, T.D. Do you have anything to say about that?

Well, no, but that obviously happens. Come on. And Caldwell said he sees Michael Turner. Now, that may be a lead, too. I don't know, but that's a fair comparison. I think Turner has a little more power and a little more burst, but Gerhardt, to me, is more like Michael Turner as a runner than Chester Tail. Over under time before we get out of here.

250 carries Toby Gerhardt Way over Yeah I'm going over with that Easily over 1250 yards I'm going over That's a perfect number I'll go under

I will go over 50 receptions Ooh That's a lot of catches I'll go under But I think it'd probably be in the 40s I'll go under Yeah I think it's going to be close

But that's a tough team to tell passing wise under finally seven touchdowns combined under really i'm going to go over for once i don't expect that offense to be scoring in waves can i say push and say seven it's a very sizzler answer very sizzler uh t d what your thoughts final take yeah final over and under until we get hard big enough season and uh madden cover like pitton hillis oh interesting that would be crazy if a jacksonville jaguar's running back was the cover of Madden, but I guess Payton Hills was still done by voting, and I'm not sure that's going to work.

Madden covers a joke. All right, that's it for today's. I just wanted to compare another white one in back. Your agenda is noted, TV. Let's see what's going on here. You're flouting this. All right, so that's it for Wednesday's edition of the Around the League podcast. We will be back next week with another new show.

Greg Rosenthal is going to disappear on us for a while, on vacation, but he might be involved with the podcast because that's how much he loves it and how much he cares about the listeners, right, Greg? I think I'll be here for at least one of the shows next week, yes. Mark's smirking, almost excited to knowing Greg won't be in the office. No, no, I'm smiling because that's the same formula I used. Drop in for one show and then vanish. Mark just wants to go to more meetings.

Yeah. It's on you, Mark. It's time to step up. Please stay. This is your chance. All right, so yes. Until next week, this is Dan Henzis. off for the sizzler, the boss, the mailman, of course, TD forever and always, not behind

the glass till Monday. Thank you.