NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL ATL: Controversial draft players, Franchise Tag primer

Episode Date: February 17, 2014

A room full of heroes – Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Chris Wesseling – share their thoughts on NFL Media draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki’s column on Johnny Manziel, Jadeveon Clowney and the 2014 NFL Draft’s most controversial players. Plus, the guys discuss whether or not a certain franchise quarterback will hold out for a new contract and which stars could get slapped with the franchise tag this offseason. Finally, a complete forecast of how the Carolina Panthers and St. Louis Rams will approach their rosters heading into the 2014 season.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the League podcast are heavy-legged waistbenders. Welcome to another edition of the Around the League podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal alongside a room full of heroes. How's that? Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, in the house. No Dan Hans is here today, but we soldier on. We are missing one of our great heroes, but I, I did see him this morning tweet.

I believe he's in the Palm Springs area, potentially. He tweeted a ivory white plate filled with strips of bacon. So I think he's doing okay. That's like a hate tweet to you. I mean, that couldn't be more hateful towards you. No, no. When I look at Dan and who Dan is, I figured he's having a nice morning. He's eating multiple bacon pieces.

Since I've moved to California, the word flight has entered my vocabulary as in like when you go to a wine tasting, they have a flight of wine. and he called it a bacon flight. That's a soft word in your East Coasters wouldn't use that. It's a little pretentious. Yeah, fair. Well, I just think we got to figure out a way to how to have a podcast without hands us in the room. Who's going to talk about the 2011 jets?

We'll just have to go on without that. We're here on President's Day, and what a useless holiday that is, so why not do a podcast? Hey, Abraham Lincoln and George Washington. That was a bit. I don't mean useless. It's always around, you know, we have a birthday this week. It's always around her birthday, so that's good. But I just mean, it's kind of the one holiday where everyone agrees that you can basically ignore it if you want.

I think it's useless because we're working. Well, I think George Washington and Abraham Lincoln would be happy to know that you can get half off your mattress on their day. Well, it's not only... It's what it boils down to. Not only President's Day week, and it's also Scouting Combine Week. And with the scouting combine, comes a little scouting combine talk. We're going to go there later this week. Chris, Mark, and I are headed to Indianapolis on Wednesday.

But why don't we talk a little combine? And to do that, let's start up our news. All right, let's get to it. Nolan Naraki, formerly known of Pro Football Weekly. Now writing for NFL.com, he tends to get notice for his evaluations of players when he gets into the character of the players. And it's not the only thing he does, of course. He does a huge write-up strengths, weaknesses, analysis.

Where is he going to go? He is the guy that Mike Mayock calls on the phone. Mayak has talked about this to cross-check. He really trusts him. He does the work. But, you know, what gets noticed by Nolan, especially this time of year, is when he starts talking about some guys that might have red flags. and he did an article today for the most controversial prospects in the NFL draft,

and it basically has his take on a number of guys, and his take on Johnny Mansell is making some news. So I'm going to read it out loud, and you guys can comment. Here we go. Suspectantangibles, not a leader by example or known to inspire by his words, carries a sense of entitlement and prima donna arrogance seeking out the bright lights of Hollywood. is known to party too much and is drawn to all the trappings of the game

he's defied the odds and proven to be a great college system quarterback but still must prove he's willing to work to be great adjust his hard partying Hollywood lifestyle and be able to inspire his teammates by more than his playmaking ability seems fair to me what do you mean that's fair is it fair

yeah I think there's some truth to that you know Nolan Naraki people he gets ripped on a lot, but these are coming from scouts. This isn't just pulled out of thin air. Not a vacuum. And we know from reading about football for the last couple of decades, scouts are among the most opinionated people on earth. I've heard Thomas Dimitroff, the Falcon general manager, say, you know what?

Scouts, we have to kind of train ourselves not to be know-at-all. We tend to tell our wives what to do. We tell our children what to do. We tell everybody in our lives, this is how it is. This is the Bible's golden truth on issues. And you kind of have to train yourself not to do that. but I think there's a ring of truth to a lot of this stuff on Johnny Mansell. I'm surprised by not a leader by example or known to inspire by his words.

I mean, that also suggests that he's spoken to someone who's played with him or people that have been in that environment with him and been close to him on a day-to-day basis. I mean, the one thing, though, that I take away because we've seen Cam Newton got lashed in some of these previous reports, other guys, A, these are young dudes that can change. I mean, Johnny, he already said he wants to drop this whole Johnny, football image last week. He was a college kid. I'm glad that what I did at that age

isn't broadcast nationally to everyone. But, you know, it is fair in the sense that if he's gathering this information from people who have talked to players and coaches that have been close to him, but he can change it. To me, there's two separate issues.

One, does he have the drive to be great? Does he have the work ethic and the desire to do everything that's necessary to be great on the next level. If the answer to that is yes, then who cares how much he parties? No, and if he can play, who cares. Who cares?

Newsflash. You know who had a bunch of red flags and got knocked in the draft for partying too much? Joe Namath. Dan Marino. I mean, Dan Marino was right up there, right? I mean, a lot of... Johnny Mansell looks like a choir boy compared to Joe Namath. Yeah, I know someone knew Tom Brady at Michigan and said he was an outrageous partier at Michigan.

Well, who wouldn't be? Right. I mean, you're at college. So that's, to me, it's two separate issues. There's a lot of guys in the NFL that kill it every weekend, during the season, out of the season. If they're able to take care of their business and work hard and all that, that's really all that matters. I read from one coach, he said, here's what I don't want on my team as a college coach. I don't want guys that grew up sleeping in silk sheets.

I want guys that have been counted out or never even had sheets growing up. He wants tough players. And my thing is with Johnny Manzell is he grew up with everything that a child could want, right? He grew up in privilege. That to me sometimes is a bigger red flag than someone at 22 enjoying what comes with being a quarterback. That's dangerous too, though, because that's like you can't paint with them. It's maybe not fair itself, but it's a broad brush. I mean, Tom Brady, a lot of people that came up in a great, Peyton Manning came out in a great environment.

I don't think that it's really hard, I think, for the scouts to figure out who's really got it inside of them to when they get to the next level is going to take it up a notch in terms of their preparation. I mean, that's got to be the hardest thing to scout. No, I agree with both of you guys. I think Greg's right. If you are willing to prepare, you're willing to work hard, and you're willing to put in the work to be great, none of the rest of this stuff matters. And I agree with Mark, when you're 20 years old, when you're 21, you have a lot of changing to go through. none of this stuff can be written in stone it's all fluid i think with with manzel i from what i do see in terms of his comments and stuff i understand he a bad summer he came off one where he became

this radioactive like lightning rod and everywhere he went and that's that's part of the process but if he's maturing and if he can play and if he comes into a team and can galvanize an offense and make plays this stuff will wash away with the rain it won't matter seeking out the bright lights of holiday. What is that even mean? Well, we all moved to Los Angeles. Did we not do that ourselves? Remember when Josh Gordon spent last off-season partying with LeBron as one of his hangers on? Yep. Hanging out in South Beach and that was a big knock on him. And then he just had one of the best receiving seasons in NFL history. I know you were interested in another write-up that Naraki wrote. Yeah, it was, you know, he took a look at Jamie Clowney and he

said his take was lax discipline on and off the field and has to be managed closely. since he arrived on campus, needs to learn what it means to be a pro. Played in spurts and is too much of a flash player, does not consistently dominate like he could, is still immature and finding his way. Too much of a follower. Sort of the same thing applies.

You know, there's been a lot of stuff about clown eat over the months that maybe this guy isn't as driven as you'd want him to be if you're going to take him in the top five. But how do we know? He's in a catch-22 situation at South Carolina. Do you risk the injury when you know you're going to go number one overall? To me, I don't care that much about college football.

So it doesn't bother me if he sits out a few games when he's less than 100%. I don't care about that. But I can see how Scouts would question his love with the game. But, I mean, he's going to play in the NFL. College doesn't have to mean as much to him, and I'm fine with that. You know, they talked about, yeah, he was overprotective of his body and from the start this season. But there's some wisdom in that potentially.

If you hang around for another year, you know, you know what's coming if you get through that healthy. Just in terms of the conversation about him, he reminds me a little bit of Mario Williams and Julius Peppers coming out of college. Both of them lightly questioned for how badly they want to. Ultimately, I think they've both lived up to their draft stock

and then some especially compared to people around them. Let's move on. Let's talk a little Baltimore Ravens. Terrell Suggs. We talked about him as a potential salary cap casualty, but he signed a restructured contract, four-year deal on top of his current year. and he's going to stay a Baltimore Raven.

Surprised at all. This seems like a no-brainer from his perspective. What's he getting, $16 million at age 31? Over the next two years, he gets $16 million guaranteed. He is not taking a pay cut off of what he was set to make in 2014. It sounds like a win-win, but it's really a bigger win for Suggs. Right. At his age, you've got to take the guaranteed money now. And to me, he's getting $16 million guaranteed for a guy who was thought to be taking a pay cut.

And with the Ravens, I mean, they, you know, their history says with Ozzy Newsom, one incredibly forward-thinking smart move after the next, have they, is, does this fall in that category? I mean, Suggs was not necessarily the same player last season that he's been in the past. He certainly was better than the year before coming off the injury, but it feels like he's a little overpaid to me. Maybe a little, but he's 31. You know what you have with him. Is he a below-average NFL starter? I don't think so. Well, what does an average NFL starter make on the open market as a free agent at defensive end?

Well, I think makes more than $8 million a year. And sometimes you've got to give a big signing bonus to get them. If you're Ozzy Newsom, you're paying a premium. You've already lost Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, so you're paying a premium for your team leader. You know, I don't know if he wanted to go into a season without Suggs leading that defense and really the voice of the team. And then I think also they're in a window to win now. They only went eight and eight last year. but Flacko's in the prime of his career.

If they add a few pieces, they can take the AFC North again. What did this do for their cap situation right now? They save $4 million in Cap Room this year, and they keep Suggs and Dumerville as their two pass-wreshers. They're basically saying we looked at free agency. We don't think our money is going to get spent any better than spending $16 million on Suggs the next two years. After that, we'll see.

The price actually goes down. This is one of those rare contracts where they say, oh, I'm going to be a Raven for life. It never works out the way. The way they structure this deal, there's a chance because he actually takes a pay cut in year three to $5 million, stays low, year four. There's a chance he sticks around,

and I think they're hoping that maybe another year removed from the torn Achilles, he's even better. In Bad Ravens news this weekend, though, Ray Rice and his fiancé were arrested on simple assault charges early Saturday in Atlantic City. Ozzie Newsom, the general manager, said Ray Rice remains a big part of their future. So however this arrest turns out in terms of the facts,

and if he gets any fine or time or whatever, they are not planning to move on from Ray Rice. Well, I mean, on the field, this is a guy that averaged 3.1 yards of carry last season looked completely different than he has in the past. What do we call him, snowsuit? I mean, he's not a guy that's an imposing sense. centerpiece at this point, but certainly still part of their plans. I think, you know, the hip injury, they want to see what is he healthy? Yeah, I think you would compare it to maybe

like Ryan Matthews last year. There's nothing we can know about his 2014 form until we see him in the preseason. And if he looks better, then we have expectations that he can be a bounceback candidate. You know, there's surveillance footage from this incident. You know, it's an unfortunate incident. The one thing I was surprised about that, Newsom said neither coach Harbaugh or I have spoken with Ray Rice. Almost two and a half days after the incident, he hasn't talked to the coach of the GM. That struck me as odd,

but it's clear that they plan to keep him. Let's move on from that, and we'll wrap up the news. What are you laughing at, Sethler? You know, I want to read Nolan to Rocky's report on Greg. I'm just waiting for that to come around. I'm sure that's got scattered with some gems. I don't think I want Nolan to Rocky touching my private life.

No. I wouldn't want Nolan Rocky touching anything. thing. Let's go to Cam Newton. He says he won't hold out. Absolutely will not hold out this year. And why would he? But if you think about it, this is the first set of quarterbacks since the new collective bargaining agreement has been signed that is up for a contract extension. It's Cam Newton. It's Colin Kaepernick and Andy Dalton. This is their first offseason. And if you just look at production, they're all underpaid. Newton says, I will absolutely not hold out. I'll throw out to you guys. Which of these three guys gets the contract first?

Cam, Dalton, or Kaepernick? I'd say Kaepernick. Why is that? The 49ers seem to move more quickly on things than the Panthers. They do. Dalton is undeserving of a huge deal. Panthers have all sorts of cap issues too. Not that they couldn't figure that out,

but they haven't even reached out to any of their current free agents according to Captain Munnling last week. So the 49ers have their, they seem to operate in unison and I could see them getting this done quickly. I'm looking for a huge holdout from Andy Dalton, though. That guy's going to go deep into the summer for more money. The 49ers have been planning for this for over a year now. We heard talk about the Kaepernick extension last year at this time.

So they've known it was coming. So if Dalton holds out, who's in charge of that team right there? Josh Johnson? Josh Johnson. That's a team, I think, is going to add a quarterback before now in the time they put a crown on Josh Johnson's head. I think all three of those guys will get contracts this off season. Dalton, I think, will be smart enough to take whatever slightly below-market deal

the Bengals offer because I think there's no doubt they'll give him a contract offer, and I think he'll just take it. Why not take $10 million, $12, $13 million a year if you're Andy Dalton? Does that, if the other two, I would absolutely make sense. and the fan base would be delighted to see those quarterbacks stick around. If you're a Bengals fan, do you want Andy Dalton getting a contract extension? No.

Make him earn it. No, no way. Make him earn it. But don't you think, though, I think he'll get one. They've said all where there's no voice in that organization that says, you know, this guy is on the hot seat and we're looking to give him huge competition, but that's my problem with the Bengals right there. How about

you give him competition, you go out and draft someone to challenge him? The other two, home run, you've got to sign those guys. Don't you think the holdout is a pass-a notion these days? There's no reason to hold out in most situations. I was watching Amazon Prime Instant Video has a new show out called The Rebels based on a football team, a fictional professional professional football team. And it's obvious that these writers haven't watched football in half a decade

because the main storyline is a rookie quarterback named Hurricane Jesus who is holding out, as if a rookie would hold out. You're already slotted a contract. Yeah, that changed everything. And with Newton and Kaepernick, you know you're going to get paid eventually. Why miss out on important practices and learning the offense and getting better when you know you're going to get paid anyway? I think you're right. If they were, I don't know, if they were getting paid so low that they just felt it wasn't worth it.

But I think you're right. It's a show of faith by the team. You know you're going to get paid eventually. Maybe, though, if Colin Kaepernick got to the start of the season and he's still only on the books for you. for $900,000. Is it different, though, when you're meant to be that franchise quarterback and not do something completely amiss and hold your team captive versus if you're Derell Revis and you're the cornerback, is it positionally a different situation for other players?

I think when you're in the quarterback, it's way more important to be at offseason practices, not just for the offense, but to be the team leader. Drew Brees skipped some practices when he was. Well, he's a veteran. That's different. So he had already been established as a top three or four. quarterback. I think it's interesting because, again, this is the first time under the new CBA that these guys are coming up. And just if you don't know the rules, you cannot redo your contract in

your first three years under the new rules. Rob Gruncowski, Aaron Hernandez, those are two guys that the Patriots re-signed after only two years. That wouldn't be allowed anymore. So you get to a stage in this fourth year where a guy like Cam Newton or Dalton or Kaepernandez, has produced so much that they're vastly underpaid now going to even cam newton was the number one pick he's only due three million which is way too low for a guy who's playing as well as him cappernik's at 900,000 dalton is very low as well it's funny with you know west nailed it when they made capernick the starter they said they probably already began to look at the situation to reassign them and with with newton a year ago remember it was gettelman who when

they asked if he was the franchise quarterback there was that long like four or five second dead air pause before he said yeah he's got to prove it i think now there's no question for the panthers that he is so now it's in motion as much as i want to bring up gab karimi signing with the falcons big news and the article that mark sessler wrote back in 2011 oh disaster this is a headline by the way on nfl dot com that you can look up chicago's karimi aka bear jew feasts on hanukkah lot I think that in any NFL.com author's career, you could look at one article and say, Not on me. That's the one I'd place. Wait, I thought there was one involving Tebow and Kardashian that you were in.

What was happening at around the league before I showed up, Sessler? What was going on? I will take full responsibility for the Tebow-Cardashian narrative because I, you know, this one is the one I'd say it was formatted and structured and the information involved. I was a puppet on that one. and I would rather not be associated with it. I was going to say we don't have time for it because we've gone so long on the news without Dan here,

but now we're talking about it. Gabe Creamy, by the way, signed with the Atlanta Falcons today. He's a former first-round pick of the bears. This is something Mark Sessler once wrote as a lead to his count. What does it take to fill up the bear Jew, in quotes? That was Creamy's nickname. This time of year, a small mountain of potato lockes.

All right, let's move on. It's definitely time to wrap up the news. All right. To the next segment of our show. Did the Pulitzer get delivered to your house? Lockas or potato pancakes. Our traditional Hanukkah Fair made with shredded potatoes, onions, eggs, flour, and whatever else the chef wants to toss it.

It's just such detail. Disaster. I was delighted to find this today. At the NFL.com sends our best to all those celebrating Hanukkah. Thank you. I'm a unifier. I'm a unify. Behind the glass today.

Fill it in. for the gold standard. All right, that's it for the news. Let's move on to our franchise tag primer on NFL.com. What an article written today. By who? Just a terrifically written, concise, informative. I thought it was just great.

And we predicted all of the franchise tags from around the league. On Monday, it's the first day. Teams can apply the tag. They have two weeks to do it. We, and by we, I mean me, I predicted 10 players to get the franchise tag this year. I had Jimmy Graham, Greg Hardy, and Brent Grimes as no-brainers.

Any disagree about the no-brainers? I don't know if Brent Grimes is a no-brainer. I'm as high on him as you are, but that's a pretty high tag for one player. 11.5 million for Brent Grimes. Yeah, that's a lot to pay for one corner who's not. I mean, he's a good corner. He's Pro Bowl caliber, but he's not Richard Sherman. The only way I could see it is if they don't, at his age,

they don't want to be lured into a long-term deal with him, but that's an expensive price tag. Well, they have a lot of cap room, and they're not going to let them get away, is my logic. All of these guys, the team and the players want to work out long-term contracts, or almost all of them. I just don't think they're going to come to an agreement, so he gets the tag. Let's move on to the next category.

I had seven more players that I thought would get tagged, But these ones were up for debate a little more. T.J. Ward with your Browns. The Bill's safety, Gyrus Bird. Dennis Pitta, the Ravens Tidend. Vante Davis. That was an upset pick. Colts cornerback.

Jared Beldeer, the Raiders tackle. Michael Bennett, who was in our studios last week, the Seahawks defense event. And then Brian Arakpo. And so those are my 10 franchise players. Any big disagreements from that list? I feel like a rap sheet, Ian Rappaport. disagrees a little bit with the concept of Ward in Cleveland in the sense that

maybe Mike Petton, after working with Byrd last year, who knows his scheme and all that business, that they'd rather go after Byrd. But I think the problem there is that probably maybe Buffalo goes down the road of tagging him or fully losing him. The Browns have already started contract talks with Ward, according to ESPN Cleveland. Yep, and with Mac too. So who knows how that plays out? I think Michael Bennett is the one that surprised me.

I agree with all the rest of them. You know, Vante Davis is not an obvious candidate, but when you look at their salary cap situation, they're not going to want to lose their best cornerback. I could see that. Michael Bennett, I don't know if the Seahawks, they have to extend Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman. I don't know if they have the room to be spending that much money

on a franchise tag for Michael Bennett. My theory, and I've done this annually for a few years, is good young players don't walk away. every year everyone gets excited about the free agent list who's going to be available oh i can't wait till our team signs ward i saw someone say today or ben what

and year after year they never get out there because good young players don't generally get to the market he was their best pass rusher this year so i just can't imagine i think they'll figure out a way to keep them whether it's a long-term contract that's more likely eventually but to play devil's advocate

it doesn't matter who they're best pass rusher is because they're in a rotation there. He doesn't play every down, and they send waves of pass rushers. Bruce Irvin, Chris Clemens, Cliff Avril, their defensive tackles rush the passer. Clint McDonald. I don't know that Bennett is that valuable

on a team like the Seahawks. But they could potentially talk about a team that may cut Sidney Rice to save a lot of cat money and may let go of Clemens as well. So that might up the need for Bennett, but I agree. It's not like their pass rushes based off a one guy. That's fair.

but I think if the choice is tag Bennett or keep Clemens, you'd get rid of Clemens. Why not just work out a long-term deal with Bennett? You will. All these guys. But you think there's health concerns with Bennett, though, a little bit. Yeah, there's some talk beneath the surface that he was a guy that was supposed to undergo shoulder surgery last season. That's why he didn't get a big contract. But there were a lot of teams that evaluated him and thought he needed surgery.

He never had that surgery. Didn't seem to affect him on the field. Didn't seem to affect him on the field. So there might be a disagreement between Bennett and teams over whether he needs that long term. And that, whether it makes sense or not, could keep his price tag down. And it could be a reason why the Seahawks would be comfortable putting him on a one-year contract. What do you guys think of this? You've got Pitta, you've got Graham, these guys that you see it out to the argument that we're tight ends,

but we're essentially, you know, what moved tight ends where we're lining up in the slot are out wide at a high enough percentage where we get an arbitrator to come in and negotiate some number between the two, the tight-in, the wide receiver cap situation. I'm sure the agents for Graham and Pitta won't like this, but they're tight-ins. That's what position they play in the NFL.

The NFL now players line up all over the field more than ever. Kellen Winslow lined up as a wide receiver at times when he played for their chargers 30 or 40 years ago. Nobody thought he was a wide receiver. He was a tight end. Do you think there should be a designation for your Gary Barnages of the world to just sit there and block someone and a tight end that lines up and catches 80 passes a year? Should there be different franchise tag allocations for those two guys?

We might be heading in that direction. I mean, Gary Barnage, to me, has always been underutilized as a receiver. He's got some wheels on him in good hands. Why hasn't he been used as more as a receiver? If Dan Hansis is listening to this, is he's still awake? No, there's no way he would have allowed Barnage talking. on the podcast if he was there. The salary cap number

and the franchise tag number comes from those receiving tight ends anyways. I don't understand the argument. It seems stupid. Why would they be counted as wide receivers? And if your big argument is that they're slot receivers, do you really want to be the top average of slot receivers? Because Wes Welker and Dan Ayman Dole and guys like that,

Victor Cruz, they don't really get paid that much. But didn't Suggs when he had an argument whether he was an outside linebacker or a defensive end, didn't that get arbitrated where there was a cut down the middle cost between the two tags? I believe it did, and I think that's a little bit different because on a defense, some of these defenses are so multiple that they're basically a hybrid scheme,

and he was a hybrid linebacker defensive end. There's a sentiment that this is unfair to the players because they're getting tagged at a lower amount. It's not like the owners are pocketing this money. They're going to spend to the salary cap, so it goes towards other players. I mean, yeah, it's unfair to that guy, but on the list of unfair things in the world, it's pretty far down the list. Jimmy Graham is going to get paid like a top 10 wide receiver anyways.

I don't think there's any doubt that he gets a long-term deal, but I think it'll be like Drew Brees. Drew Brees had the tag for a while, and he held out for a little while in the offseason when it really didn't matter. Then he got his big contract. They're going to take care of their guy. I had a long list of players that did not get the tag. players that I said were close but not quite worth it or I didn't think that they would get tagged

some of the highlights there B.J. Raji Michael Johnson, Eric Decker Brandon Albert Akeeb Taleb Alta Ron Werner these are all players I don't think will get the tag.

You can check out it's 18 players long on NFL.com any of those players on that big list that you that either I could get wrong or you think should get the tag. I think you got them all right. Oh, stop. I think the one that...

Sucking out. The one that intrigues me is Eric Decker. Because the Broncos are in such a win-now window with Peyton Manning. He's only got one, two years left, maybe three if... I don't even know if his arm can last three years at the way he's throwing the ball now. But the way he's playing and the way this offense is set up, I think it makes some sense to make sure Decker doesn't go anywhere. That makes sense to me. If the Packers go out and slap any sort of a tag on BJ Raji after we've been given this win

that they want to reshape their line in Dom Kaper's image, I don't understand the franchise on any level. I think you got that one right. Well, if I got it wrong, that means rap sheet really got it wrong because he convinced me out of putting Raji. I just going by my theory, you don't see good young players walk away.

I had Raji above. What's the tag for defensive tackles? How much? I think it's 8 or 9 million So basically 3 million a piece for each play he's made over the last three years

I like My favorite name of the group Alteron Verner sounds like he should be like the right-hand man in like a 1950s space comic book How does someone come up with that name Alteran Werner?

I like it It's awesome But that's he's getting killed there because I think they've gotten McCordy tied down and that sort of sounds like the reason that's not happening for him is they've got too much money in one position. He's a pro bowler. He had a better year than Vante Davis

who I said was getting tagged but I think just with the way the cult scheme works and they just have gobs of franchise salary cap money that I think they'll keep Davis. I don't think the Broncos value Decker that highly. I think they look at their group and they see him

as a guy who's replaceable. Demarius Thomas, not replaceable. Ryan Clayty, not replaceable. Julius Thomas maybe even not as replaceable, but Decker replaced him. I don't disagree with any of that. He's replaceable, but you're going to replace him with somebody that means you're going to have second or third best offense in the NFL instead of the best offense in NFL history. But they might think that they can sign someone for $4 or $5 million a year, kind of like they signed Sean Phillips at defensive end or outside linebacker last year, and that'll do the same thing Decker does. Well, they're wrong.

How do you know? Because Eric Decker is very good. they did name another team that just had the best offense in NFL history and he's like you said if he goes and plays number one somewhere it's the wrong spot form he's in the ideal spot to have certain games where they can feature them and they can overload defenses and he can have a huge performance but you know Decker is a very good player he might not be a number one and he might not be irreplaceable but you're not going to have the same offense in Denver without him before this year the highest scoring offense in

NFL history was the New England Patriots guy who had some good numbers Is that year? Dante Stallworth. He was pretty replaceable. Well, you can't compare Eric Decker to Dante Stalworth. And those offenses were built differently. One had Randy Moss. I've just tried to get Wesleyan all fired up. Dante Stalworth.

Give me a break. Let's move on from the franchise tags. And we didn't even get to Akib Talib, who I think is the toughest guy to decide on. Eventually, I said he's not going to get the tag. But it would really hurt the Patriots to lose him. But let's move on. And let's do a couple off-season forecasts.

And let's start with the St. Louis Rams. And not the team that has a lot of chatter about them this off season. But there was a good conversation on Twitter today, and that made us want to talk about the Rams on the podcast. Our old friend Evan Silva from Roto World and NBC Sports posed the question. Who would you rather have? Bridgewater or Mansell and $7 million in cap space or Sam Bradford and the number two pick of the NFL drive?

Which group would you rather have? Would you rather start over with door number two, the rookies that you don't know, or would you rather keep paying Sam Bradford like he's a top 10 quarterback? This is a no-brainer for me. Give me Johnny Mansell and the cap money. I'm with Wes.

Why would you settle for a known mediocrity? He's going to hold your franchise hostage. I bet Sam Bradford's pay grade, he's the only quarterback in that pay grade who isn't a franchise quarterback. Oh, well, and it came from a different pay system entirely, but you're right. He's far overpaid for what we've seen. Ian Rappaport responded,

he's an above-average starting quarterback, and you know that you have that. My argument would be he's not above average. He's had a 6.4 yards per attempt average for his career, which is bordering on the Gabbard zone. It's very below, even last year, which everyone that supports Bradford would support as a big step forward. He had 14 touchdown, four interceptions.

They were not pushing the ball downfield. They were not really an effective passing offense. I don't think he's above average. I don't think he's been top 20 so far. And so you're paying him so much money and you run the risk of making the wrong decision year after year. And this is your one chance to pull the rip cord, get out of it and get another franchise quarterback.

and if you're wrong on Bradford, everyone gets fired. You mentioned yours per attempt. He's also in the bottom five of all NFL starters and completion percentage. There's nothing we've seen from him. He's one of the worst in a muddy pocket. He doesn't handle pressure well. There's nothing we've seen from Sam Bradford so far that would make me think that he is a top 15, top 20 quarterback in the NFL. He has the tolls.

Scouts salivate over his arm, but his arm is really inconsistent. And this isn't the first time this has happened. They passed on RG3 to keep Sam Bradford. So this could be, you know, this front office could live or die with Sam Bradford. Here would be my one issue. It wasn't their pick either. No, but last year they were completely, they sounded completely sold on, we're going to get a new deal done for this guy.

Now he's coming off, you know, a torn ACL to add to that. Which is no small thing, as we've seen from Brady and RG3. Here's how you put the whole thing in cement, if you go the other way. that if you add Johnny Mansell and keep Brian Schottenheimer as your offensive genius, I have a big problem with that because I think one of the reasons that he's struggling, he has had as his offensive coordinator, now he had McDaniels, so there's no excuse there, he's a creative guy, but Pat Schumer and Brian Schottenheimer, that is not a list high with ingenious thinkers.

In fairness to Bradford, he played better before his injury last year. after everyone already started tuning out the Rams. His last three or four starts were okay. How many great-on? Remember that massive comeback victory he engineered? Me neither. Hasn't done it. He doesn't have those moments.

And I went back and looked at Sam Bradford last season. His best games came in blowouts. When the game was close, he didn't play well. And he tends to play much better against bad teams. That's not really what you want in the quarterback. It reminds me a little bit of guys like JP Lod. Or Jason Campbell, Byron Lefwich, guys that team stuck with too long. And Bradford is such a hard guy to evaluate because he's not in that class of quarterbacks where he's a bust.

He is a competent starting quarterback. If he was cut, seven or eight teams would want him and he would upgrade their starting quarterback position, which is significant. I mean, he is better than plenty of starters out there. But if you're going to pay him that sort of money and you're going to keep. passing on top five picks or top two picks in order to keep him, you know, you've got to look at opportunity costs. You could be making the wrong decision on Bradford over and over, and you've got to be so confident that he's your guy. I don't see it that much differently than the Bengals, in my opinion, doing the wrong thing

if they get sold on Andy Dalton for a number three or four more years while this window, whatever it is in Cincinnati, which I'm not sure I buy to begin with, shuts closed. and the Rams aren't a Super Bowl looming team they're the worst team in that division but they're not a bad football team they've got a great defense and what if you plugged in a quarterback that suddenly made it go

I mean that's not exactly what Bradford hasn't done he is about one of the hard watch I think he's a he's part of a dull offense and he's part of the reason in my book I totally agree and there's this sentiment that Bradford gets a pass because he doesn't have good surrounding talent this exercise he did last week

looking how rosters were constructed was pretty informative on that note. The Rams have put more early-round draft picks into wide receiver than most teams. You've got Tavon, Austin, number eight overall, Brian Quick, second-rounder, Stedman Bailey, third-rounder, Austin Pett is third-rounder.

They've got another fourth-rounder. I forget who that was. Their tight end is one of the highest paid in the league in Jarrett Cook. He's got weapons. And we've seen other quarterbacks where they don't do well. A guy's getting paid a lot of money,

then the backup comes in and all of a sudden the offense moves. He's an enigma to me. I don't, you guys, sound more down on him than I am. When I really look back and watch five or six of his tapes last year, I thought he was just an enigma. I mean, he's a tough guy to put your finger on and say he's definitely the guy or he's

definitely not. He is after Dalton. It could be after Bradford to me. He is kind of that line where you don't quite know, but there are moments where you think maybe he's got a chance. It's funny that you say enigma. I think when I wrote about him last year, I called him an enigma, wrapped in a riddle covered in secret.

or something like that. He's the hardest quarterback in the NFL to figure out. When they brought Kellyn Clemens in, and I'm not saying that Kellynne Clemens is just as good as him, it's not the case at all, but they went total run-heavy. They won games. They won games, but was there that much of a gaping difference between what Clemens was doing?

They were more competitive with Clemens. I thought so, too. But maybe they're a different, maybe they need to be more of a run-heavy physical team. We're not going to spend too much more time on the Rams. We could talk about Cortland Finnegan. He's really their other big question. He's done. He's going to need to take a massive pay cut in order to stay on the team.

It might be tough to negotiate that pay cut because his agent is in jail right now. That's a true story. Let's move on to the Carolina Panthers in their offseason forecast. What an intriguing team this is. We mentioned Greg Hardy. He's a franchise nominee, I would say. I mean, a very likely franchise player. Captain Munnerland is a free agent.

They have a lot of other questions. Chris, you did this offseason forecast. What's your big takeaway? What are the big things you're looking for out of this team this off season? They have 26 free agents, which I believe is the second most in the NFL. You mentioned Hardy and Munnerland. Jordan Gross is a big one, played at a Pro Bowl level at left tackle last year, is now at a stage of his career where he's contemplating retirement.

And his two options are play for the Panthers or retire. He doesn't want to play for anyone else. That's a big decision. they need to draft and maybe even also signed a playmaking wide receiver a successor to Steve Smith and a compliment to Steve Smith because Brandon Lafell and Ted Ginn are both free agents

I think Greg Olson is a little overpaid for this team he's going to take up almost $8 million in salary cap space I saw you list him as on the way out question mark that's where we list potential cut I mean I don't think there's any chance Greg Olson gets cut come on he was their most consistent receiver That's because look at the rest of the receivers. He was not a Pro Bowl caliber tight end,

and he's making too much money for that. Would you rather have Greg Hardy at $11 million or Greg Olson for $8 million? Why can't you have them both? Well, their salary cap says you might not be able to. They're in bad shape, salary cap-wise. They can figure it out. Teams always figured out.

You push the money in the future. Greg Olson, you don't get better as a receiving team by cutting one of your good receivers. Well, they also have, I think. Maybe he's only $5 million. that at $7 million, but that's not that big deal. I think that we disagree on how good Greg Olson is. I think they have four of their five top defensive backs or free agents, too.

Which, I mean, you know, everyone thought that's the weakness of that defense. I thought because the front seven's so good, they weren't a weakness last year in the sense. They held their own, but if you lose three of those five guys, the depth behind them is where things start to fall off. My guess is that their front office and coaching staff sees those guys as replaceable. Godfrey, for instance, gone. Well, he only played two games last year. And they can save a lot of money by cutting him.

Mike Mitchell was found off the scrap heap. Quentin Michael signed in over the summer in free agency. Those guys are replaceable. And I think the Panthers think that with their front seven, no matter who they put in the secondary, they've got a pretty easy job back there. Do they bring back Captain Munnaling? That's a good question.

They had him on a one-year thing last year, right? Yeah, and no one, I think he was a restricted free agent last year, wasn't he? And that's just off the top of mad. I could be wrong on that. he is one of those guys that had the best year of his life in the perfect time and just looks like a guy that is going to get overpaid in free agency. I mean, or maybe he's worth it, but he's going to get paid a lot. He's one of those guys who's suited more to the slot.

He's more of a nickel corner who's forced to play outside. He's going to have numbers like sacks and pick sixes because he has good instincts, but he's not a guy who's going to go out and shut down your outside receiver. Every time Dave Gettleman talks to the general manager over and over it sounds like this weight on his shoulders and it would be if you're GM, he talks about the cap and we've got to get out of this cap hell that we're in. So this one team that's not going to overpay for anyone

this off season, I don't think. Well, if they have to place the tag on Hardy, which I think they'll either sign them long term, which should be a better number than the cap than placing the franchise tag number on him. Except he wants a crap load of money. That's going to be tough. I mean, if you're paying Greg Hartman,

$11 million, man, that takes up a lot of space. Charles Johnson is taking up a lot of space on the other side. You have your running backs are very overpaid. You're going to have to say goodbye to some people. Yeah, they're going to have to make some tough decisions. I agree with you, though. I think you have to keep Hardy. You can't just let the second best free agent on the market walk away at age 26.

Well, Jordan Gross is a free agent. Maybe there's talk that he could retire or resign with the Panthers. Maybe you just say goodbye to Jordan Gross. Maybe you say goodbye to Captain Munnerland. Jordan Gross would be an awfully hard guy to lose. Their offensive line early last year was abysmal in September, and then they signed Trevelle Wharton, who came in and basically saved the day,

solidified that offensive line. Wait, wait, hold on. I've just gotten word from Dan. We have to stop the podcast. Just did Trevelle Wharton in a deep dig into Jordan Gross. No, sorry. Well, I think that this offensive line, in the last two years there have been stages where they've been awfully bad

and they solidified it from October on last year if you take away Jordan Gross you're going back to the stage where you're not going to be able to run the ball as well you're not going to be able to pass protect as well and the offense isn't going to be isn't going to be able to hold up its fair share of the weight and you have to save some cap room for cam Newton's extension because I think he's getting that contract this off season I would be stunned if he doesn't it just makes too much sense to do that Maybe you just go in with seven people on your offense.

This is a team that was so good and we loved them. And I think they're rising, but it's one of those teams I think has an uphill battle to repeat. They're going to have to be better to put up that same record again because the division's going to get better. And they're a roster with a lot of issues. We didn't even mention wide receiver. I mean, they'd love to be able to go sign a wide receiver.

That's not going to happen with the cap problems and with Hardy. They're not getting rid of Olson, no matter what you say, Wesley. Nobody repeats in the NFC South. That's been true for year after year. That's a fact. That's why my bucks are coming up. You guys happy with this podcast? Sure.

Award winner? Part of an award-winning show. Yes. On its own, perhaps not the award-winning episode. But who knows? We'd have to go back and listen to that. Frankly, if Nolan Naraki was here, I think he would say we carry a sense of entitlement, a prima donna arrogance, and we're seeking out the bright lights of Hollywood.

Well, I think a lot of that is true. I think there's some truth in there. There's an underlying truth. Well, we are, we're going to come back this week. This isn't going to be it. We're going to do another show that's going to go up Wednesday. And then we'll also have a podcast going up on Saturday from Indianapolis. So we'll recap what we've learned so far in Indianapolis on Saturday.

And we'll be back next week with our normal Monday, Wednesday, Friday schedule to really recap the combine, start looking ahead to free. agency. And that's it for Chris Wesseling, Mark Sessler, Kave behind the glass. I enjoyed it. It was fun. Thank you for chiming in. You know, you know, you're not quite the gold standard, but maybe like the silver. Wow. The bronze standard. Am I at least on the Mount Rushmore of ATL podcast producers? By mentioning Mount Rushmore, you are not on it. Done with Mount Rushmore. No more round rushmores, please. Goots and Borglum. Are we on the Mount Rushmore of around the league hosts? Only because we're still looking to even fill that...

You and Dan are the only ones who've ever been to the host. Well, no, I mean all of us. Oh, I've never hosted. All right, I'm just going to say it. Mount Rush more of around the league hosts. Wesseling, Hansis, me, and Henry. Wow. Wait a minute.

I don't even know what that means. All right, that's it. I was doing the outro like five minutes ago. For Chris Wesleying, Mark Sessler, copy behind the glass. I'm Greg Rosenthal until Wednesday. This is an I-heart podcast.