NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL ATL: Geno vs. Vick

Episode Date: June 18, 2014

A room full of heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler -- react to the latest NFL news, including the Houston Texans naming a starting quarterback in Ryan Fitzpatrick, the Washington Redskins’ defensive issues and the circus that is the New York Jets’ quarterback competition. Plus, is Kurt Warner a first-ballot Hall of Famer? And which teams can compete with the Seahawks and 49ers in the NFC?Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the League podcast starts now. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the League podcast. My name is Dan Hansis and I'm joined by Roop filled with heroes, Chris Wessling, Mark Sessler, and Greg Rosenthal. What up, boys? Hey, Dan. Stand it in the round. in the backup studio.

First off, an apology to all the listeners who wrote us, very upset about the technical difficulties. Two points on that. Number one, it's just going to be a little tough for a few weeks while we are in our temporary home here. Man up. Yeah. Well, this might need to be a rolling apology.

Right. A rolling. And number two, TD, not behind the glass. It's not his fault. It's like Matt Damon and Goodwill Hunting. It's not your fault, TD. It's not your fault. He can't control it.

It's just the equipment's not as good in this temporary spot. Great Robin Williams right there. Thank you. I thought there was only one line in the whole movie. How about them apples? Come on. Goodwill hunting is not? Is that a little outside?

No, I actually like that movie. I'm a big mini driver fan. I just had Elliot Smith come on in the car the other day on shuffle. Great music from that movie, too. Oh, Elliot. Mini driver, who's the NFL equivalent? Exploded on the scene and like a low, Maybe like a high draft pick or a low draft pick exploded on the scene.

You thought she was going to become something big and then disappeared. Lionel, Little Train James. I'll go Don, Magic Man, Magiakowski. Oh, that's a good one. I'm going to go Kerry Colbert. Thought he was going to be good right away? Except none of these figures felt the need to go lose 25 pounds to stay relevant. Oh, that's this.

What I'm arguing is she should not have done that. Be who you are. Apparently she had the Giants coaching step. anyways all right okay gentlemen big show today bear with us

as we work our way through this situation and also let's get a little plugs in there right off the top subscribe to us on iTunes if you haven't already there's a thing called Stitcher

we won an award for it maybe you heard about it I don't know why you guys always act like you don't know what Stitcher stream it on Stitcher yeah stream it on Stitcher is a great app do it on both

then we get double the pleasure. Wes is definitely getting some side mullah from Stitcher because on a quiet Saturday afternoon and, you know, the Twitterverse is silent, unmoving. I suddenly see Wes starting to tweet about Stitcher and plugging it. I just thanked

our listeners who download our podcast on Stitcher. Slightly, just a tad suspicious, but give us some recommendations on iTunes? They did give us an award. Yeah, give us some recommendations on iTunes and comment on us and you know, do all that fun stuff.

Big show today, as I said, we're going to continue our Making the Leap series, digging into some of the players that we've nominated, who will go from relative obscurity or perhaps at a level where they're just kind of another guy to the next level, where they're a Pro Bowl type player or heading in that direction. We've got two more players, and I think, and Black Tie is nodding his head, I think we're going to get Kevin Patcher on the phone. We've been trying to get Kevin Patcher on the phone for roughly seven months now. I believe that when I hear it. And we're going to talk because he, Zigianza, the Vikings Pass Rush, Patcher wrote about him. So we're going to talk. Patrick wrote about him in February. Yeah, a long time ago.

You meant Lions, right? Oh, of course. We know Patrick's not allowed to talk about anyone but the Lions. Apologies. Lions Passed Roger, Russia, Zigianza. We'll also be getting into, you know, the Seahawks and Niners have been seen as the runaway favorites. in the league in recent years, at least in the NFC. Chris Wesley had some

thoughts about the situation that is aligning in the NFL in the new season. Perhaps that could be changing. But before any of that, we'll start with the news. So what's up, TD? How are you, buddy? What's going on, guys? I just got a great chuckle from Cessler's Mula. I didn't

never heard that before. Side Mula. The fabulous Mula, an old female wrestling villain of old days that had to do... I believe you dated her actually, right, in high school? Dan, that is so, she's got to be 87 years old right now. She's even still in existence. She's not the most attractive woman ever to grace the squared circle.

No, great personality. A blocky woman, a thick, wide woman. She was built like Cartman. So what's up, T.D.? Guys, I got to confess. So, you know, on the last show we did, which is on Monday, you know, you have to, hey, let's do some news, right? Yeah, sure.

Let's do some news. That's your little thing. And I remember listen to the show when the Gold Stander was on, he would always say, let's do it. And, you know, I made a point to myself that that that's not going to. to be my thing. So let's do it has almost been retired within this podcast. It's been retired, but our last episode, I went, let's do it because it rolled off the tongue nicely. Don't think that we didn't notice that, by the way. I felt really wrong. I actually got called out on Twitter. Wow. From this point on, guys, that would never happen again. No more. Let's

do it. So what's your trademark? I don't know what it is. I'm going to try a couple of different ones every show and see what works. All right. So we'll start today. And I'll say, you know, Hey, TD. Let's do some news. Let's go. Oh, stop. All right. Hey, listen, you've got to start somewhere. Everybody's got to start somewhere.

You get the sense it's not been an easy week for TD on the Twitter front. He's got this particular Let's Do It scandal, and they're also the probably flood of messages about the sound. Not easy. Not an easy life for Tiddy. And, of course, Nigeria. He's got the World Cup going on. There's a lot of stuff he's dealing with.

it'll be, let's try. All right, let's do some news. We start with news that broke on Tuesday. Texans coach Bill O'Brien announced that Ryan Fitzpatrick will be the team's starting quarterback. There will be no training camp battle with Case Keenum, certainly not T.J. Yates, who was also released on Tuesday. And, of course, you have Tom Savage in a backup role. You assume he'll be in a developmental role. Any thought that Case Keenham and Ryan Fitzpatrick would be battling it out for a starting job with all of America training their eyes on the situation?

It's not going to be that way. Fitzpatrick, the Amish rifle, is your starting quarterback heading into training camp and likely through training camp. Gentlemen. It's nice to see some actual hard news. Okay. Yeah, we've got a quarterback. That's pretty cool. We don't have to wait until August.

I'm surprised you're saying anything putting your boy Case Keenum on the bench is cool. Well, I would say that I agree with John McLean, the venerable Houston Chronicle writer, that Case Keenham breathed life into that offense for a little bit last year until injuries took over the running backs, defense is starting to catch on, and really he couldn't deal with the blitz. That was his own problem. But it seems like they've been willing to throw that all out and put all of their eggs in the basket of a man who averages a win every third start.

How do you get your fan base excited by Ryan Fitzpatrick? They're not going to be excited, but it doesn't surprise me if he's the best option on that team. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not a bad backup at all. We talked about it a little yesterday just sitting around her death. The problem with him is he's kind of like that shooter that you bring off the bench that can get hot for you and shoot a bunch of threes. But he's a bit of a gunslinger. Over time, over seven or eight games, he's going to have more bad plays than not. He's not a safe quarterback.

He kind of goes against the type of what you would think a Harvard man should be. He's just throwing it out there willy-nilly. Are we sure, by the way, I know he went to Harvard? Are we sure that Ryan Fitzpatrick is smart? I mentioned this yesterday. I feel it's linked without any question, any debate. Oh, he played sports at Harvard. So he is genius, which nothing about his on-field play would suggest that you.

I have the Wonderlick test to show that he is well above average. I think he got a 50 or something on the Wonderlick. And I would second to say that Wonderlick doesn't make you a smart on-field football player necessarily. Only one player in history has a 50 on the Wonderlich. Some punter, I bet. Former Bengals punter slash wide receiver. Pat McAnally. That's smart.

I want to go back to something Dan said. I believe you called Fitzpatrick the Amish rifle. Is that a thing? Do we know he's Amish? He's not Amish. name for like half a decade. Really? I miss that. Because of that Grody beard.

Well, by the way, first of all, nice use of Grody, Wes. I like that. 40-year-old man using Grody. I like it. Number two, I think Fitzpatrick deserves some credit because when he grew in that beard, that Grody beard, as Wes calls it, he was a little ahead of the game. Not everybody had these nasty beards. Now I feel like 80% of football players, including 114% of white offensive linemen,

have a giant bushy beard. I think he earned that. The other thing is, this is a player, and one of talk about 80% that don't do this, probably on or off the field. He never takes his wedding ring off in games. And that came to light, and people were freaking out. He said, I'm loyal. I'll never take it off my hand.

That explains his accuracy. Ooh. You know what? He deserves that, though. Because don't throw it in our face that you could keep the jewelry on and makes you a better man. Enough of that. One point, by the way, T.J. Yates released. Obviously, he had former fourth.

fifth round pick, late round draft pick in 2011, ended up getting in a playoff game and winning, and then kind of dropping off the face of the earth. Sound like somebody? Mini driver. What? Connective tissue. T.J. Yates. That's an outrage. I wouldn't assume

that Tom Savage is the third string quarterback here come September either. Why? He's not even a corporeal entity. If he is actually a human being and there is starting to become some evidence of that, I think he will be the backup. Yes, for those that maybe are new to the show, the around the league team

has very been slow to come to grips with the possibility that Tom Savage is an actual person or not just a draft buzz. I thought he was created from the figmentation of Gilbrant's imagination. We're starting to learn otherwise. Moving forward, the St. Louis Rams running game. Some interesting news out of there. Offensive coordinator, Brian Schottenheimer, confirmed Wednesday that Stacey isn't guaranteed to open the season as the lead back. Here's Schottenheimer's quote. Well, right now, competition, that's the C word, is for who's the starter? We're just going to let them all roll and see what happens.

Gentlemen, what do you take of this? Does Stacey, I mean, he seems to be a guy that can make things happen for this team, but should he be taking starter snaps? I'm not buying what they're selling, that this is a real competition. I think it's just what coaches like to say every offseason. that there is a competition. Stacey was their offensive focal point for the last 12 games last year.

I can't see them like not starting them and going with a rookie. It's all about when you talk to the coaches. When we were at the Combine, Jeff Fisher was talking about he wanted to get Zach Stacey's 370 carries. I don't think it's crazy to think that a guy who was taking in the sixth round last year,

Zach Stacey. Fifth round? Faces some competition from a running back that they took a couple of Ryan's higher. I mean, everything about the NFL the last couple years would lead us to believe that they'll probably split carries or it'll be 60, 40, 70, 30 for Stacey. And it's June, so it's hard to take any of this very seriously. They are preaching competition and they speak a different language than the average football fan. Well, the Rams are a perfect example of how week one starters are overrated.

Do you remember the starter at running back for the Rams last year? Darrell Richardson. D. Rich? Now fourth on the depth chart for the Jets. Right. And not only was he started, he got 20 carries the first week. I mean, they gave him a shot and things change. To me, Zach Stacey makes sense as a bell cow type of guy,

but they wouldn't have taken another running back in the third round if they wanted to give them 370 carries. I don't think so. That is the shape of a team that if you pick any of their running backs in fantasy, you're going to be agitated early to end. I think I'm keeping Zach Stacey in my keeper, like, get excited about other people's fantasy teams. Everybody does.

Bad news in Washington. The Redskins signed former Cowboys defensive tackle Jason Hatcher to a multi-year deal earlier in the offseason, including $10.5 million due to him this year. Early results not looking good. Hatcher said Wednesday that he needs to undergo arthroscopic left knee surgery this week. Coach Jay Gruden confirmed the news later. He's expected to miss four to six weeks, but for a guy that has some past knee issues, and the history that we know with the Redskins signing veteran free agents.

None of this sounds too promising. Redskins fans and maybe others would say this isn't a big deal, and it's probably not. But imagine if he had this surgery in February. How much money would he have gotten as a free agent? Half as much? Not even. So to me then it is a big deal. It's a 32-year-old who couldn't even make it through the summer without having pain in both of his knees, he said,

and they need this guy to be a superstar. They're paying him like one of the best defensive tackles in football. Do you know when I realized the Redskins would not be a candidate for a team of VTL? What? Last podcast when TD brought it up and Greg answered no three times a succession. No. And then cackled when Jason Hatcher. It ain't happening.

Jason Hatchew went in their life and it made Greg's day. Vito power checks and balances. Yeah. I mean, you are canceling out the Steelers clearly. Don't assume that. I think we all have checks and balances, though. We'll see how plays out. Well, you can assume I'm canceling the Redskins.

I haven't been getting into it. Raiders fans lately. It's flown under the radar that Greg cannot stay in the Redskins. He hates the Redskins. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm not going to pick them as a team of ATL. I mean, wow, the dynamic Jay Gruden and Jim Haslett combo. Let's get behind that group. It's fair.

Marshall Lynch has arrived at Seattle Seahawks mini camp. Everyone exhale. NFL media is Omar Ruiz, a good, man, by the way, who was in Seattle, reported that Lynch took the field with his teammates on Tuesday, but did not participate in the team stretch or any drills. Big, big story here. Any whispers that he was thinking about retiring, which was always bogus. That's all out the window, and he's not going to get a raise.

I think he came to learn that, and now he's back, so he's still running back in the NFL, as he should have been. He might get a raise. Can we please put this story to bed until we see him in the lineup in week one? Sure. It wouldn't surprise me if he got a little bump. Why? I know initially I thought he had no chance, but just the sound coming out of Seattle,

they might give him some sort of Band-Aid, like, incentive-based, just little thing to be, hey, Marshawn. Paul Lowe has deep pockets and the Seahawks do things differently. Yeah. Bad news for your boy, Chris and Michael Mark. I thought he was on his way. Not worried. No one puts more into the Making the Leap game than Mark Sessel.

who really did well last year picking players that ended up making the leap indeed in 2013. So this has to hurt, Mark, because I know you really want to have the most successful making the leap candidates. Take us through your thought process right now. I think the thought process was that what I projected Chris and Michael for is not threatened at all. Sure. Somehow, and I did not project him for whopping numbers, that got through the board. So that's the mistake. is allowing me to write an article where I actually didn't project him to do anything that outrageous, and it's on our website, and it will be correct come December.

I think offense to Dan saying no one puts more into making the leap than Mark, don't project here. I mean, I'm putting a lot into it. Well, no, no, I don't take it the wrong way. What I mean is the people that Mark more than any of us, I feel, wants that percentage correctly. He wants to have the most right. I'm not sure where that's coming from.

at all, but I will play along. It's not something on my list of concerns. It's not top 150 in my life. I like how this is going that season two of the Around the League podcast, more conflict. We're just going to get at each other's throes. Well, this is called

disintegration of the group. You can't have a stagnating storyline. Right. It's like, you know, in any new show where you obviously have the love connection and the tension there between two characters. Even if they get together, they have to separate in your two. You can't, I mean, you have to find a way to keep the listeners.

I point to the producer change. Oh. Let's just, you know, marinate, let that marinate. Portiti doesn't even have a headset on right now. I can't even answer for himself. Low blow, Mark. He does throw the fireball, though. All right, the Jets continue to send messages that Gino Smith will be the heavy favorite

to begin the 2014 season as the team's starting quarterback. Offensive coordinator Marty Morningwig told reporters, On Wednesday, that Smith will get 70 to 75% of first-team reps during training camp. Of course, Gino is perhaps in a competition with Michael Vick, depending on who you ask. Vic, who cannot stop talking, was asked him again about his situation. And the outspoken quarterback said, listen, it's a, quote, little premature to be regarded as a backup quarterback. Well, I don't sign as a backup quarterback. TD, you got any circus music over there?

Get their calliope playing. You want it to be, but it's not a circus. It's a circus. Michael Vick is bemoaning his lot in life every other day. How high on the regret scale is Michael Vick right now that he signed with the Jets? Well, all right, let's pull back a little bit. Let's say he spurns the Jets. Where would he sign where he'd be feeling better about a situation right now?

The Raiders. Who goes to the Raiders? It's where you go for your career to die. What are the Jets done lately? Well, I mean, there's a difference in – there's different where the organization has been in the last time. 10 years, let's be fair. Hold on. Like one thing,

morning, morning wegg also during this, you know, press conference, whatever it was, bath salt-induced talk session, called San Antonio Holmes, a man with a,

in quotes, heart of gold. Literally? Yes. I would say, I would charge. He said, Chris Johnson is a first ballot hall of favor.

Yeah, there was a lot of nonsense being tossed around. Whether or not you think this is a circus, And that word may be strong, although I tend to agree with Wes on this, is that what New York has done is for the third time in four years, if not the fourth time in four years, create complete disease and issues at this position. It's not, it's not. Tell me about the disease, Mark. Get deeper on it. Can you possibly arrange it so that you don't have your two quarterbacks dispensing completely contradictory quotes to the press day after day?

What is Gino Smith said? Gino Smith is the guy holding the line. Michael Vick is going all over the place. Shut Michael Vick down. Which teams quarterbacks have we talked about more since this podcast started than the Jets? Well, that's just the way it always is. The Jets quarterbacks people love to talk about it. Right. It's a disease-ridden circus.

I know, but that's what Jets haters like Mark and Chris like to do. But it's really not a situation. I don't hate the Jets. I don't hate the way the media covers the Jets. Well, how's that the Jets' fault? Because they don't have to keep bringing in Michael Vick when they know it's going to be a problem. Here's a point that I would like to make. They brought in Tim Tebow.

That was their fault. You would acknowledge that? Oh, that was the most of French. There's always dueling quarterbacks giving press conferences within 24 hours of each other. Well, that's not sure either. It is. That's absolutely true. No, they have a locker room where they go and talk to the quarterbacks.

They're like the habit because it's a bit they have now. All right. This quarterback talks. Now the next door has to come in and just say it totally awesome. This is how the NFL works. They talk to the quarterbacks. Yeah. Just like that's what they're doing in Cleveland.

Some teams think it's a good idea to have one quarterback. Well, the Jets would love to have one quarterback, but it's not that easy. Well, if they're giving 75% of the snaps to Gino Smith, then he's their one quarterback. You don't need Michael Vick on the roster. This is some genuine news that they're not giving Vic a truly fair chance. Or maybe they just feel like he's Michael Vick and they know what they have, so they'll just get Gino ready and then they'll pull out the rug from under him about a quarter into week two. I always thought, and I've said that, we have sandwiches on the line that, Gino, Smith will get the chance to start the season and then when he falters which he probably will because

I don't think any of us are sold on Gino Smith you have a nice perhaps the best backup in the league to come in and I never understood why that was a bad decision that the Jets went down that route if anything the only thing I think that went wrong here was Vic talks too much I and and he continues to talk which was predictable though because Michael Vic did the same thing the last few years I will always believe until I'm told differently that Vic was told he gets a chance to compete for the starting job and they're not letting him compete. It's a theory. It's possible, but that's not what we know.

Well, I'm going to keep believing it. Well, I'd be a little worried that the guy running the offense thinks San Antonio Holmes has a heart of gold, and Chris Johnson's a first ballot hall of famer that really brings into question the entire operation. If he has a heart of gold, what's the worst, by the way? If he has a heart of gold, how bad is he at football that they won't bring him in. What? Gilding your heart? Wait, what?

Covering your heart in gold. Is that a new thing? Like, people are doing that now? I don't know, maybe. I wouldn't be that surprised if there was a crazy Instagram photo posted by San Antonio Holmes with maybe like kind of a hazy look in his eyes with the heart of gold. I could see it. Yeah.

4.20 clock in the background. Dan, we are not trying to attack you directly. Well, I just pick up the future. When we talk about Michael Vic and Gino Smith, I want you guys to wear matching tights as a tag team. Like a low-grade 80s tax. How about in the future, we just don't talk about Vic and Gino because the story's not going to change. That's fine.

Dan does have something in his pocket right here, which is that his sandwich bet, and the two of you decided to make a high-octane sandwich bet on who's going to be the weak-one starter. Dan took Gino Smith, that's right? Chris Wesleyan took Michael Vick. I mean, if I can get on this one, I'm starting to feel pretty good about Dan's chances here.

Oh, I feel Dan has a better shot now. than he did a couple of months ago. But all along, I was counting on a Gino-Smith-August face plant. Okay. Capitulations. Let's talk about, listen, this is the quarterback I would like the Jets to have. Kurt Warner is heading into the Cardinals' Ring of Honor, Mark. He's available.

He is available. NFL Network's own, Kurt Warner, into the Ring of Honor. Mark, you wrote a piece on this today. I'd like you to give your thoughts on Kurt Warner the man. I think the bigger question for Kurt Warner is after this season, he's eligible eligible for the Hall of Fame. Do we think he's a first ballot Hall of Famer? I don't really get into the whole first ballot thing because I don't think it's predictable.

Unless you're Lawrence Taylor or Jerry Rice. I mean, who knows? That was my attempt to steer it away from the four-paragraph posts that I wrote. You did a great job with it. We are talking about the quarterback with the three highest single passing game totals in Super Bowl history. That's a Super Bowl. resident. He's the Terrell Davis of quarterbacks, but I think unlike

Thorell Davis, he will get in eventually. I don't think he'll get in right away. I really think it was the Cardinals Super Bowl run, which came up just short, no fault of his own, that will get him into the Hall team. It might have to wait three or four or five years.

It's tough for, I mean, Terry Bradshaw waited how long did he wait? It's crazy. It's kind of interesting to why he's the Terrell Davis. You know, he started out in the Arena League. He was, you know, everybody knows he was bagging groceries. He gets benched in New York. He gets benched in St. Louis. He's playing okay in New York. He comes to Arizona. They don't know enough to play him over Matt Linerd at first. He will be the first Hall of Famer to ever lose a job to Matt Liner.

And I bet he would have played another year, if not for Bounty Gate, and the Saints taking him out in that game. Interesting. I mean, he's definitely a guy that later in his career was brought in to nurture a guy that we knew would take over the job soon enough, right? I mean, but I like the fact that he kind of battled back from being doubted over and over. Warner's also one of the few quarterbacks that you could say two organizations in terms of modern play would point to him as like their highest performing quarterback over a couple of scenes. There aren't a lot of those guys.

That's true. And it is an amazing comeback story that he had with the Cardinals because you think of how he came out of nowhere with the Rams. But go back to when the Giants got rid of him, he was not a highly sought-after guy. He was a guy people wanted for one year, $2 million. He'll be your backup. He'll be the good guy in the locker room. At that point, no one, including us, I don't think, really thought he ever had a shot to be that kind of top-shelf quarterback again.

Here's how important he was. Name another good Cardinals team in their history. Seriously. Like 1987 with Neil Lomax? How good more than it? No, not. I mean, that's your ceiling. Plummer got to the playoffs, but they weren't good like those.

Cardinals teams, which really were contenders. I mean, they made the Super Bowl, and then next year they won a playoff game. We have to move on, but I want to throw out five names from the class of 2015 and let me know, are eligible in 2015 for the Hall of Fame. This all gets announced right on the eve of the Super Bowl. So Warner, yes or no? Not this year, but eventually. I agree.

Yeah. Junior Seow. He's a Hall of Famer. I don't know what year he'll get in. Yeah, I think he'll be first ballot. I think he'll be first ballot Hallfamer. Obviously, there are other circumstances. Tony Dungy?

Well, he's been up. He was up last year, right? And he didn't get in. And I think Marvin Harrison of the former cults that are waiting again. To me, it's totally insane he didn't get him. Yeah, I agree with that. He should get him. I'm shocked.

That's why it's so hard to predict first ballot. I was shocked at Marvin Harrison. Very much. So in coaches, I mean, if they're going to look at Dungy primarily, obviously, as a coach, that's a rough road for some of these guys. Jimmy Johnson's still not in. Right. All right, gentlemen, let's move forward the Making the Leap series.

As you know, we're counting down the top 25 players most likely to emerge as true impact players in the 2014 season. Kevin Patra are around the league Chicago correspondent wrote up number 22 on this list. Indeed, Kevin Patrick coming at you on the phone. Are you there, Kev? I am here. Yeah, it worked. We thought it would never happen. Buzz has been building about this appearance for weeks now, Patra.

So there's a lot of pressure on you to deliver. It was many years ago that I wrote this post, so we will see what happened. All right, Kevin Patra. So you wrote about number 22 on our list. He is Detroit Lions Pass Rushers Ziggy Ansah. Of course, Ansah was the number five overall pick in the 2013 draft, showed some positive signs as a rookie. And now you believe Anza will go next level in year two. I do.

And Dan, it's actually tragedy that we didn't get to do this Monday because I had a great opening line about you planning it. So Ziggy Anza from Ghana would be on the same day the U.S. played Ghana in the World Cup. That must be as heartbreaking as it was for Ghana to lose in a tragic fashion. You still shoehorned it in there, so really nothing lost. I do what I can. So tell us about Ziggy. Well, when I put on the tape, I mean, you saw that he had eight sacks last year,

and he came out of BYU as this raw, past rushing talent is what he was labeled as. And what surprised me the most, I think, and what I think is going to get him through to make the leap in this next year is his awareness on the field. He actually was much better in run defense than he was in past defense. The eight sacks jump out. But a lot of those, by my count, half of those at least were a product of him having a high motor,

but sue and fairly flushing out a quarterback from the middle of the pocket toward him or him being the last person near him as he went out of bounds. So I really think that his awareness and his athleticism and that motor that I spoke of are the main reasons that he's going to make the leap. And his second year with Jim Washburn, when you notice they scrapped the entire coaching staff, they kept the defensive line coach Jim Washburn on. I think Ziggy was one of the main reasons because of his improvement over the second half of the year. So if Ziggy makes the leap and they slimmed down Nick Fairly

Bounces back to 2012 for him, will anybody score on the Lions this year? Well, yeah, because you still have huge question marks from this. I mean, they're not going to get to the quarterback ever play, right? I don't know, Ziggy on. There's huge question marks from the secondary, so I would say they will score, yeah. He, you know, was talked about like he was far more raw than Jason Pierre Paul, and he had played so little football. And what I watched of Anso was similar to what you did is that he looked apart and he was very good in run support.

He was thought of as a guy that maybe wouldn't be strong enough and he looked ready for it. And part of the reason I like having him on making the leap, he's going to play more, not just starting, but his snaps were fairly limited last year. And yes, maybe some of those sacks were cleaning up and taking advantage of his situation. But he's going to have that again this year. And if you keep getting those sort of easy sacks, he'll get 13, 14, and we'll look like geniuses. And that's really what it's all about. It's all about spinning it back toward us and greatness. How can we work a remote control car into the Making the Leap series?

That's going to be making the leap number one. Spoiler alert. I also think that I think he's also going to get moved around the line a little bit more. Because he was still going to in run support, I think they could mix them up in the defensive interior next year a little bit more. they did that he had like 20 or so snaps on the inside most of those from what I saw were stunts with Sue on one side or the other but I think that they couldn't move him around a little bit more to take more advantage of matchups I remember when I saw I saw stunts with Sue in concert what's the biggest obstacle for him well first of all

he's got to stay healthy like great said he did go through injury problems he had concussion early in the season. He didn't miss any time with that. He had an abdomen problem, and then he missed two games with an ankle injury. So he's got to stay healthy. He's the off-season shoulder surgery now, which they knew when they drafted him that he would probably need. So him missing time in the off-season in a pivotal year where he could make the leap, it doesn't bode well, but I don't think that's going to hurt his chances. He also has to get his technique better. I mean, good tackles shut him down. Watching Joe Thomas just gobble him up every single time, so redundant that I just kept flipping through.

Because he really did, I mean, besides a bull rush and coming out wide outside on that wide nine, he really doesn't have any other pass-rushing techniques. He has trouble getting heavy guys with offensive lines off of him. His best games came when he could overpower the left tackle. Well, that sounds good. Thank you very much, Kevin Patrick. Kevin Patrick, by the way, we're going to let him get back to it, working on an unauthorized biography of Chicago Native and former expert.

File star, Jillian Anderson. True or false, Kevin? I cannot tell you because the ex-files stuff. Look for that on the Internet at some point. All right, Kevin Patrick. Good talking to you, buddy. How good one. God, it's so good to hear Kevin's voice because I would go out of a limb,

all due respect, Wes, that Kevin Patcher is the most masculine member of ATL. Why did you say all due respect to me? Because you're a very masculine man yourself. I didn't realize it. And that's not to take anything away from Gregor Mark. No, you're taking nothing away from a lot. And don't worry about that. That would be my comment that Wes is, you know,

Wes is a man. Look at them. Look at those shoulders. But, you know, Patrick, he fights a lot. So it's good to hear his voice. I'm taking Patrick in a fight. Over me? That's a bad move.

Who is the last person that you said? Oh, it was a bad move to take Peter King over you? All right. So let's move forward with another making leave candidate. Wes, it is now your turn to speak up because you are all in New Orleans Saints running back Kyrie Robinson. You seem to be excited about him as being

an instant impact type guy this year. I do. I think it all started late last season. If you'll recall, watching the playoff game against the Seahawks when I think it was John Lynch was announcing and related the anecdote that Bill Parcells called up Sean Payton, his former pupil, and said, you know, what are you doing? Play Kyrie Robbins?

Robinson, this guy's the next Curtis Martin. If that doesn't get your attention, I mean, Bill Parcells presented Curtis Martin at the Hall of Fame. Maybe he'll be doing it for Kyrie Robinson someday. Maybe. What about Robinson gets you excited in the morning? Does he? Like, first thing you wake up? It's not how this is.

Guyi Robinson. Yeah, I don't get out of bed in the morning until I think about running backs. I thought, you know, he's a tackle breaker. This amazing stat from pro football focus, Kyrie Robinson on regular season carries alone, 76 snaps had more force-miss tackles than Ray Rice did on 730 snaps. He's a natural attacker, but he led all backs in the preseason in forced miss tackles

and had this is a demonstrated skill. He had more yards after contact in the playoffs than Marshawn Lynch and Laguerre Blunt and broke a record for the only running back to have 150 yards and four TDs in a playoff game. It's hard to figure out the way New Orleans plans to use its running backs from year to year, but they have whittled it down. They got rid of Chris Ivory. Darren Spurles is out the building.

Only one of their six running backs were drafted. And Robinson, you're right. He saw more carries down the stretch. And it seems with the stuff we heard in Orlando from Sean Payton and just a consistent kind of buzz from the coaching staff that Robinson, along with Ingram, but Robinson's going to see a much bigger load this season. Are we going to, as long as Drew Breeze is there and throwing as much as he does, are we ever going to see, though, maybe this is what could hold him back, that offense really installing

a running back that gets enough work to make the leap? There's no question. That's his biggest obstacle. Greg did Pierre Thomas last year on making a leap and said the same thing, the committee attack. Since Drew, since Deuce McAllister's prime, they have not had a thousand-yard back. And I wouldn't expect Kyrie Robinson to be that either. Last year, he only caught one pass.

So I went back and I did a little research into his pass-catching ability. He looked like a pass-catching maniac in the preseason. There was one game he caught six passes. I think the game before that he caught five. He caught 60 passes in his last two years in college. He looks like he can do this naturally. This is something that he can do, but he had to pick up his assignments and get used to pass protection. The coaches all say he's doing that better this year,

still, I would imagine, going to be way behind Pierre Thomas in that. He jumps off the screen, though. He reminds you a little bit of a young Maurice Jones Drew just bouncing off of guys. And his biggest obstacle is basically just keeping Mark Ingram on the bench as much as possible because for the fifth straight year, we're getting some residual Mark Ingram hype out of Saints' Camp too. And to me, it's just you watch the two. You would think Robinson's the first round pick. I think so, definitely.

I thought going through just by the time I had finished his preseason film, I thought I had already seen more out of Kyrie Robinson than I saw out of Mark Ingram in four years and out of Trent Richardson and two. Kyrie Robinson looks like the guy who's a first-round draft pick. And what really sticks out is he has exceptional balance. If somebody's arm tackles him and it looks like he's going to fall, he somehow keeps his balance, keeps going and gets yards after contact. And he has good vision too.

He gets the hole, puts his foot in the ground, and explodes through it. Wes, I bet some, before we move on, final 2014 stats prediction. All right, do you want to do your over-under that you usually like to do? All right, over under, 100 carries. Over. Well, well, over. All right, over-under, 500 yards. Over, well over.

Come on. Well, what are we working? He's not making the list here if he's 500 yards. Unless you're Kristen Michael. I'm going to go. I would set the over-under and yards at about 725. Ooh, I like 25 sneaking in there. I want to aim for the sky.

I think a thousand's not that crazy. Thomas is the pass catcher. Robinson's the runner. It's not that crazy. I have this vision in my head of him, like, exploding on the scene in the playoffs again, when they're going to need a cold weather back. And, well, they could get a home field advantage.

They've been a good running team over the years overall. They'll rank in the top 10 in rushing. I think there are yards there for him. I'm a homer for all these guys now. Greg is putting his red editorial pencil on your prediction. These are his boys. All right, before we get out of here, I just wanted to touch on something West said downstairs that kind of struck a chord with all the heroes downstairs.

You said that the Seattle Seahawks and San Francisco 49ers have some real competition in terms of entering the season. Usually there seems to be a big talent golf and maybe an overall team-level golf between these two teams and the rest. But you say it's getting tighter and tighter, which will be interesting heading into a new season. I think entering last year and throughout the season, everybody assumed that the Seahawks and 49ers were the NFC superpowers. And after the Super Bowl, everyone pointed out that what the Seahawks did to the Broncos, the 49ers could have done the same thing. And I think they've lost a little ground this offseason, really through no fault of their own.

But I really like what the Packers and Saints have going for them. And I think they could be equally as strong as the 49ers and Seahawks, if not stronger. You've been saying you think the Saints could have the best record in the NFC. Part of that is because they don't play in the NFC West. Right. That's part of it. But I really love – they picked up – how many teams pick up two difference makers in one offseason? And if you buy into Brandon Cooks, which it seems we are, Mark has called him the favorite to lead rookie receivers in production.

Bucky Brooks has predicted 70 catches for him as a rookie on our podcast. And I think Drew Brees said today, look, this guy's going to do a lot of – what Darren Sprouls did for us. They're excited about him. I think if you look at their offense last year, Greg pointed this out several times. They had kind of grown stale at wide receiver. No, but their tight end was their downfield threat. Now Kenny Stills will have a bigger rule.

Brandon Cooks comes in. Carrey Robinson gets elevated to a bigger rule. They have an injection of playmaking ability really on both sides of the ball here. Mark, your thoughts? I don't think that Seattle has I think I think you make the point that these other teams are creeping closer to Seattle for instance I don't think Seattle's done anything that tells me they've taken a step back they're one of the healthiest organizations in football and San Francisco I can buy that a little bit more in terms of aspects of their team I don't love their past defense necessarily but you know Green Bay it naturally inherently is going to be a better football team because, A, you're not going to have Aaron Rogers on the bench for nine games or whatever it was. He's coming back.

Unless you're predicting something. I'm not this time. And you're getting what essentially is almost a refurbished starting defense with all the players you're getting back. I guess for me, it's not about Seattle declining, though, on any level. I don't think Seattle's declining. I don't think the 49ers are either. I think that whereas last year they had very little legitimate competition, you know,

I think, I never thought the Saints were a threat to them last year. I thought the Panthers win that division. And it played out that way. And it did. The Saints had too many flaws. What I think this year is the Saints are equally as powerful as them. They've gotten better. The Packers, you mentioned, they basically have a new starting defense.

Guys that weren't on the field in their playoff loss to the 49ers, Clay and Matthews, Casey Hayward, who was their best cornerback the year before. I think Brad Jones, the linebacker wasn't there. Dayton Jones, who was in making the league candidate this year, barely played in that game. Micah Hyde, who could be a three-down player this year, barely played. They've got four or five guys that are Julius Peppers who they signed. They've got so many guys that are among their best players who weren't on the field. And one guy like Julius Peppers is the perfect example of in the middle of June.

We are just flying with excitement about the concept of him, and then let's see where we are in November with him. But in general, the Packers have a lot of young talent. What's interesting for me is if you were to examine this Seattle, San Francisco level of talent against the AFC. The AFC, to me, has nothing going on. I'm not sure if the 49ers are definitely there. And part of it is just a habit of mine that over the years,

what comes up in the NFL always comes down, regression to the mean. And I don't know if we're entering a new era of NFL football where we're back to these superpower teams because it's starting to look like that. The Seahawks and the 49ers and the Patriots of the Broncos, they've all been the best teams for a few years now. And even the Packers and the Saints, they've been good for a while. Recent NFL history tells us either the 49ers of the Seahawks aren't making the playoffs because good teams don't stay that good that long.

What about the 49ers, if we're saying that maybe they didn't get worse, but they're not going to have Navarra Bowman, perhaps for the whole year. And they're not going to probably won't have Eldon Smith for at least some bit of time. But perhaps he could be in jail for all we know, but he'll almost certainly be. suspended those are two huge pieces of that defense that aren't going to be there losing cornerbacks too eric right right who just he retired his defensive coordinator vicangio said that he asked eric right to move inside to play nickelback last week and write promptly retired at age 28 right that was gregg made the analogy downstairs that's like if gregg assigning mark as an example to write something about the nfc south and mark going i don't want to write about the nfc south i retire

not like you'll take a couple of days to think about it, or I'm just peeved and I'll go. I quit and I go get another job. And let's get straight, what he was asked to do. He was asked to move three feet to his left. By the way, had I signed a $5 million deal a couple years ago, maybe I would quit. All right, that's it on fire tonight.

All right, that's it, gentlemen. Unless you had anybody had any other thoughts about that situation. All right, let's get out of here. We'll be back on Friday with our third and final show of the week. There will be a lot of excitement there. We'll still be in the dungeon, as we call it, or I just said that for the first time. Feels apt. Yeah, feels apt.

It's not as good as Sessler's dungeon. Cessler has a dungeon. Chris has slept there. That's a whole other story. We'll be back on Friday until then. This is Dan Hansis signing off for the mailman, the Sizzler, the boss, and take date. This is an I-heart podcast.