NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL ATL: Michael Sam's NFL future, salary cap casualties

Episode Date: February 11, 2014

A room full of heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal and Chris Wesseling -- move from Studio 66 to the front office, analyzing which marquee NFL veterans could get the axe this offseason.  Elsewhere, the crew delves into all the biggest headlines from around the league, including NFL draft prospect Michael Sam’s announcement that he’s gay.  Don’t miss as the heroes get a surprise visit from Handsome Hank, who has a bone to pick over last week’s pod.  So, settle down, tune in and join the conversation on Twitter: @NFL_ATL or #NFLATL.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the League podcast starts now. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the League podcast. My name is Dan Hennis, and I'm joined by a room filled with heroes, Chris Wessling, Greg Rosenthal, and handsome Hank. What up, boys? Hey, Dan. Hey, Dan. Henry Hodgson, the notorious D.O.P.

sitting in for Sessler for the time being he's going we actually have something to get to a little conversation piece that started downstairs Hank is going to hang around for a few minutes do some news we'll get to the little beef that we have and then you'll be on with your next uh programming issue i don't think it's a beef but okay if you want to if you people will tune in for that bit they'll be sticking around to see what this is yeah for sure not a damasheck podcast ATL podcast beef no this is more personal because you're you're basically a cast member of the Dave Damasek football program. That's a fact, right?

Maybe slightly, but I don't want to, you know, there is obviously a problem between you guys and Dave specifically, but that doesn't extend to me. I don't think so at all. Although I do view, Hank is like the old movie studio system where once you're in the studio system, you could not escape. So you being part of this is like Faye Ray going from RKO pictures to Universal for one project, one off project. Right. I mean, right. My analogy. Rich Eisen, obviously, has me often on his podcast as well.

So I just move seamlessly between the more. You might have a problem with Damashek after this. He may not like this cross-pollination. I'm willing to take that risk. Big show today. We're going to go over some big names that could end up being salary cap casualties. We have our off-season forecast series. We're going to get through three of those teams.

We're going to talk with Hank about the issue he has with us. But before that, we're going to start the gold standard behind the glass. How are you, buddy? Doing just fine, thank you. Why don't we do some headlines? Let's do it. All right, obviously the big headline here. Michael Sam, the NFL draft prospect,

and the SEC co-defensive player of the year out of Missouri, announces he's gay, which is something substantial in the world of sports. Correct? Well, I was telling Greg, we've now heard everyone's opinion on it, and it's basically the same opinion. it's boring what do you mean the opinions are boring yeah everyone thinks the same thing about it which is i guess better than the opposite which would be a divisive issue where some people are against the guy it doesn't have to be divisive but you could come up with something original

well let's hear it this is your chance chris well i would compare it to what i find interesting in comparison to the jonathan martin story i think michael sam has owned this story and controlled it and comes from a position of strength. And it speaks volumes that his teammates knew about this since last summer and never said a word. And I think he'll actually fit in better in a locker room than somebody like Jonathan Martin, who was identified as weak and soft. And they pushed incognito to toughen him up. It seems to me like Michael Sam's going to come into the NFL, and that won't even be a factor.

He's coming in from a position of strength, and I would guess will be more liked by his teammates than Jonathan Martin was. Right. I think one of the interesting things, though, could be that, well, you know, this is obviously a talking point now, and it's going to be all the way up until the draft, and more than just sports media are going to be into this story. When he's drafted eventually where he is, and let's say from everything we've heard over the last 24 hours, it could be sort of round three through round seven. Are the media that aren't normally part of the sports media going to point to the NFL and say, this guy wasn't a first round pick, you know, which is kind of what they think of as prospects? So therefore there's something against him. I think that, listen, if he gets drafted, that's all the national media that doesn't know anything about the structure of the NFL and the draft structure. They're like, oh, he was drafted. If he didn't get drafted, the NFL would just be slaughtered as not being progressive and, you know, being against gays in the sport. And I don't see any way that happens. I know, Greg, you and I were talking about this downstairs that, you know, we don't know the inner workings of how this is all going to play out.

but you would think the league will almost push hard to make sure this guy gets drafted, right? There's no reason to think he wouldn't get drafted anyways because from everything we're hearing, Mike Mayock, Daniel Jeremiah, it's not a guy that's necessarily going to go in the first three rounds, but it's a guy that you would expect to get drafted sometime in day three. Some people maybe think it would be third or fourth round. Some people think it'll be six or seven,

but somewhere in that mix. You're right. It would be such a bad look for the league. that there are many team owners that release statements and coaches and GMs all expressing support, there's no doubt one of them would take it because it's a bad look. Exactly. And that's why I think he's definitely going to get drafted because there have been so many people who've already said that they like the kid that they're going to draft.

And we're moving on to like his draft stock already and we're right out of it. And I understand we're all cynical as sports writers that we're tired of. It's our job to look at the Twitter. reaction all day and it's all the same and it's boring but it is it is an incredible moment it's just it's almost a relief because when this was coming up last year that okay it's it's almost time for a gay player to come out all i could think was it is crazy that there's never been a openly gay player in the NFL or major league baseball or hockey i mean it is 2014 and we all have friends or family members or people close to us that are gay of

course, and it's just bizarre that sports, which is usually ahead of the culture, is so far behind here. And I think it's great. It's coming on the heels of Jason Collins. And I just think next year at this time, there will probably be multiple openly gay players, maybe even by the start of the season. I think it'll just keep happening. And, yeah, that's a good. Maybe I'm putting too much stock in mankind, but I really have a pretty confident feeling that this is going to go over very smoothly and this guy will get drafted in day two or day three of the draft and it won't be

a big deal. Right. I think the difference to me, I think you see a difference the players, most of them have been positive and I think they will continue to be. I think there's such a generational gap between the players and some of these people in the front offices who were anonymous quotes to Peter King and other people

who said, you know what, we're still not ready for this. And I think that means they're not ready for it specifically. That 50-year-old man or that 60-year-old man isn't ready for it, but 25-year-old players, it's not that big of a deal to them. That's how they were raised with this issue.

And some of those evaluations that I read in the SIPs, I think that's what you're referring to, Wes. If you went back last January, and there is some connective tissue, I guess, on some level with Manteo, and in terms of how people speculated how this guy would be able to play in the NFL, there were plenty of anonymous quotes coming out

that this guy will never be able to play in a locker room now and all that stuff. It's all stuff that kind of gets, blown up when the story first breaks and I think just once everything plays out we get through the combine we get through the draft by October nobody's even going to be thinking about this there's only so many ways you're I think Mantaire is a great um parallel to draw here but because you already made it this morning in our morning meaning a separate from didn't hear it wasn't sleeping at the time you and I exactly probably you and I you're probably jelling your hair at

that time um you saw me gel my hair it was at my office seat but uh but you know you're and I on the same page there but you know there's only so many ways you could ask that question. When you hear in inverted commas, it's going to be a distraction. It's like, how many different ways could you ask a question to him that is of any interest?

The funniest thing to me are the Twitter responses that are like, why is this even a story? It doesn't matter that it, give me a break. Of course this is a story. You don't think this is important to him. You don't think this was a hard thing to him in the gay community. And you don't think his teammates,

it's going to be something they're interested in good, bad, or whatever. And it's always going to be a reflection of society that there's going to be some jerks in the locker room, but that would be true anywhere. And that's why you're also seeing every, or seemingly, as my NFL inbox tells me, every front office in the league sending out these statements of support for this guy. This is a big deal, and everyone wants to check off the boxes to make sure they're on the

right side of history here. And, you know, when the time comes to draft them, hopefully the league gets it right. I think of things now. Put a bow on it, Greg. You're a parent, Henry. I think of things now, in terms of my daughter and kids sometimes. And this is one of those things that she'll, if she ever read up on the history of football, you know, it's like she'll be so surprised that we lived in an era that the internet didn't exist.

That will blow her mind. And I think she'll see that, wait, there wasn't a gay player until 2004. That will blow her mind that, like, why wouldn't there be that? It's hard to imagine. Well, and it, I mean, it always blows my mind when this morning we had a guy called Wade Davis, who I don't think he even really got to play in the NFL who came on and, you know, as an athlete. after he retired, he came out. It blows my mind that there's only like a handful of, you know,

in the morning show this morning on NFLAM when they were trying to find the type of people who could comment on this, there's like three or four guys that they can get in. Now, clearly that's not the case. In the whole history of the NFL, there's four guys who've ever been gay. I thought it was interesting reading former Vikings and Raven Center. Matt Burke today guessed that he had played with 10 to 12 different gay players in his career.

Well, Eric Davis said that on NFL AM. Every team has gay players and every team has players that know about it. So everyone knows they play with gay players. Well, we just wrote about this a few weeks ago, the 93 Oilers. There were two openly gay teammates in the locker room. They didn't come out of the closet, but the teammates knew that these two players on the team together were gay. Dan wants us to move on. That's why he said to put him on it.

This is momentous. This is a big social. Societal issue. But we have a podcast to run here. What do you want to get to Sean Lee talking about the Cowboys coach? Or something? Give me break. You know what I want to get to?

Because it's great that Hank is here because some kind of bad news around the dolphins. I'm always for this. Doesn't it have a bad news around the dolphins? A new report from CBS Sports, Jason Lackanforra spoke to a source who had conversations about the Miami quarterback situation. Here's the quote, Hank. He, Joe Philbin definitely wants to push Tannahill more. And if he doesn't see improvement, he said he might go to Matt Moore at some point. He definitely has a lot of faith in more.

and they're paying him a lot of money. That sounds like the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Is that even possible? Well, for a head coach to say he wants to push his young quarterback more next season, not a strange thing to be said. I would imagine that, you know, Jim Harbaugh right now is sitting somewhere going, I want to push Colin Kaepernick to do better next season. So I'm not sure that there's much of a story to this.

I think this was maybe leaked on purpose. Right, right. There was some stuff going on to the end of the season. Maybe Philbin's not happy about Tana Hill costing Sherman's job. maybe he wants to prove a point to him about, hey, look, you're not running the show, I am. Right, and he's got to... But I don't think there's any realistic scenario

that Matt Moore enters a season as the quarterback. No, in fact, I think it may be more realistic that Matt Moore isn't on the team. Since he's taking up so much money, I think it's more likely that Matt Moore isn't on the dolphins at the start of the season than that he's somehow starting at some point next season. Tannehill made progress over the course of the season.

The wheels came off for the entire team, him included in those last, what was it, two or three weeks, I wouldn't think that the franchise confidence should be shaking in him. He's a guy that's shown a lot in two years. No, and he, I mean, you know, we all know the issues they have with their offensive line. They're clearly going to rebuild that during the offseason, you know, starting with probably with free agency and then on in the draft. But, you know, I can slide up next to my buddy Greg Rosenthal and be happy to be what in the camp of Ryan Tannahill believers.

Oh, yeah. I mean, remember after week 15, they beat the Patriots and everyone's talking about the maturation of Ryan Tannahill. Give me a break. I think it's clearly the coaching staff or someone that's not happy with how many nights Tannahills out in January or something ridiculous. I'm just saying they're saying get back to work, buddy. And he has a reason to stay home. And of course, Hank, when you run into the Rex Ryan Week 17 Buzz saw, how can anybody get on that? That jet team is peaking.

Obviously, one of the best teams in the league at that point. I mean, Joe Philbin should be the one worried. If he doesn't quite right get some schemes going, find a new coach for your boy. is coming for you. You might want to score 30 points at some point in time. Good thinking. By the way, bigger social story in terms of big picture, the Michael Sam story coming out as gay,

or Mark Sessler stepping on Lauren Tannahill's purse at NFL honors. Lauren called me the day after, and she is not happy. She wants her written apology from Mark Sessler. Well, it's weird. Mark actually apologized to you just as a rep... He did apologize to me at NFL honors. That was funny.

And I passed that on to Lauren. You know, because we talk regularly, but she doesn't think it's enough. Does your wife know that you speak regularly? Lerentana? Mainly because it's not real. All right. Oh, okay. Thank you.

I mean, I do with my head talked to Lauren a lot, but not actually in person. According to ESPN Dallas, all the sounds coming from Valley Ranch suggest the cowboys, quote, want to move on from wide receiver Miles Austin. and obviously the man has hamstrings made out of paper, machet, and hasn't been the same guy in a few years. Does this make sense for the Cowboys to trim some fat on the salary cap and get rolling? I think how many years in a row can you be let down by the same player? It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's cut and has a bounce back year with another team. But I can see why the Cowboys just washed their hands of him and say,

look, we can't just keep building our team around him as the number two receiver and he doesn't come through. Every year the Cowboys keep two or three, quote-unquote, stars that aren't really stars that they shouldn't keep. And Miles Austin could be that guy this year. It makes total sense for them to cut him. He has not been worth the contract. He's not worth the production. They can replace him.

Yet he, to me, seems more like a guy that they would irrationally keep just because they've fallen in love with Miles Austin. So that is a good transition to our next topic. Hank, before we do that, though, before we do that, before we get into some big name. possible salary cap casualties why don't you take the floor before you have to go to your next big meeting explain to us why you approached our little pod of our ATL pod and had an issue with our prior podcast I would think when you should call it an issue I wouldn't say it necessarily I would I would put it in that category but on on Saturday morning I was listening to the podcast and thank you and thank you to all the listeners yes exactly and I'm just very very proud to

count myself as one of them and I noticed I noticed that one of I noticed, I heard that one of your discussions in the last podcast where Greg was missing, of course, and that's always a disappointment for me not to be able to hear him. He's ticking off all the boxes right now. Exactly. I bought gifts as well, by the way. I see that. Was that you had a discussion on which are the two Super Bowl teams are more likely to get back to the Super Bowl.

Right. And I thought it was an interesting discussion because I think the consensus answer was that the Seahawks are more like to get back. And I don't really have any issue with it, but the point that I came to make to you this morning and somehow found myself hoovered into a podcast was that I think that the Broncos are that much ahead of their competition in the AFC compared to, say, the Seahawks and the 49ers, who, as we saw on the NFC championship game, couldn't be separated by that much, that the Broncos are more likely to get back to a Super Bowl, but the Seahawks are more like to win a Super Bowl. Wes

I think The assassin I think as of January 2014 the Broncos were that much ahead of their AFC competition than the Seahawks

were to the 49ers I don't think that carries over to the offseason because we don't know how strong other teams in the AFC are going to be

after free agency in the draft and we don't know how much weaker the Broncos will be after they lose a guy like Eric Decker No Sean Marino

whoever they lose on defense they could be really picked apart in free agency whereas the Seahawks are built to withstand that and they have a better nucleus and one point that I thought I made on the podcast but maybe you had turned it off by then was that...

I was so angry. I wasn't there. I'm amazed you listened at all. Peyton Manning played in an A-plus level this past season and I have a bit of a Cessler here that he's going to come down a little bit age 38th season, and if he goes from 55 and 10 and 5,500 yards passing,

170,000 pass rating, whatever it is, and becomes more just kind of like a great quarterback, 36 touchdown, 17 interceptions. You take away some other skill guys around him, maybe the defense loses a little bit. Maybe as Julius Thomas has another ankle injury, DeMarius Thomas gets hurt. Maybe Dennis Allen. I mean, all these maybes that you've got here could just as easily happen to the Seahawks. The Seahawks aren't built to all. only have one part of their team working well though they're built to have every part of their

team the Broncos need Manning to still be otherworldly and if he comes down even a little bit and i'm not saying a brett far of year two in Minnesota meltdown but even a little bit that might be enough for they're right in the middle of the pack where anybody can pick them off and that's kind of how I see it in that division you know are the chiefs going to do three playoff teams and Dennis Allen they're not just taking care of softball pants the Raiders are coming for you Wow, Greg almost came out of the chair for Danes Allen. The Raiders are coming for no one. By the way, Dennis Allen, who just downstairs we were discussing,

who's the most nondescript looking head coach in the NFL? He was in the maybe 30 or 31, we decided. I think it was 31. Who's 32 if he's 31? Which coach would be the least recognizable to the average person? You just put up the photos. Who can people name the least? I think Mike McCoy and Dennis Allen are pretty close.

They were 30 and 31. The right answer is Doug Marone. No one knows who. Doug Maron had no history of success at the NFL level or college level. He coached for a relatively small college football team. I mean, you're counting out, but I know that you know this. There's one coach that I had no idea what he looked like until 15 minutes ago. This can't be right, though.

Who's that? Bill O'Brien. Oh, okay. That's a good one. Doug Marone was on the London Monarchs, 1991. World Bowl winning team. I had a perfect season. What a season that was.

He played guard for that team. Defeated, untied, unscored upon that team. I have no idea. They won World Bowl 1, 21-0, nothing against the bus. But Bull 1? Yeah. Congrats if you took the over on how long it would take for Henry to mention. And by the way, the reason that came up, hard to recognize coaches, was I let yesterday,

I printed out a big picture of Chud's face and then superimposed on it, why Mark Y, and taped it onto his monitor. And then Mark sits near the printers. So a lot of people kept on coming over, and it would catch their eye this, this. piece of paper, and five people were like, who is that? And I'm like, he's an NFL head coach. You work in the NFL media newsroom? What an indictment!

Who are these people? I was 100% sure it was Norm MacDonald. It looked dead on, Norm MacDonald. Hank, I feel like we were able to kind of talk it out a little bit. I think we all respect each other's opinions here. I think so. I didn't feel like Wes respected mine that much, but I feel like the arrest, so I'm just going to ignore him.

No, no, I thought it was an interesting point, and I think you did hit a loophole there, but I think we sewed it back up. I just like how proud Henry was clearly of this answer when he first made it down in the newsroom. It was like he discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls or something. I mean, it was like this amazing point. He was just like strutting after we made it. We gave him the platform.

Come on in. Come on in. We'll shoot it down for you. All right. We're going to continue. Hank, do you want to sit in or do you have to get going? I think I'm going to go. But I'm going to leave you with a gift. I, you know, I'm aware that I've sort of come into your house.

What I've brought with me is some Japanese treats. Really? These are called cats tongues? Greg, are you aware of these? You are married to a Japanese woman? Well, that's, I... It says, though, that's in French. There's French with some Japanese lettering.

This is literally straight off a plane from Japan today. These handwipes? They look like a little bit. They're called Cat's Tongues. I encourage you to have one. So Cat's Tongues. Yes, but they're not actually Cats Tongues. I encourage you to have one.

Thank you, Henry. Chocolate-covered cat's tongue. I've got one for you as well, gold standard. It's very kind of you. Thank you. All right, well, great to thank you very much. Thank you, Henry. And if any weirdness with Damashak happens, we'll just maybe we'll all sit down in a big kumbaya circle around a fire.

Well, I think the fight is still scheduled for some time soon, right? I haven't even bought my Trident yet. Handsome Hank. All right, gentlemen. So we move right along. We were talking about Miles Austin earlier as a potential cap casualty. Let's go over some other names. right, that could be purged

that almost certainly will end up on another roster and the reason why their team is getting rid of them, it may be more about the financial end than the performance end or in some cases a combination of both. I did a post yesterday about it, so should I just go down my list and then we can, or should I

throw it around? How do you guys want to do this? Yeah, let's go down the list you made. And I would say these are the biggest name, salary cap casualties, and we are going to have so much content on around the league regarding free agency. you don't know what you're going to be doing. So we'll have a comprehensive list of all the possible cap casualties.

We've got our team outlooks. What are they called? Offseason forecast. That also has potential salary cap casualties in each one. But here are some of the big names. All right. We'll start right here. Running back Chris Johnson for the Tennessee Titans.

This is one of the slam dunk ones. I attach an arbitrary percentage chance. Each of these guys gets cut. I set this one at 95%. Am I correct there? Or am I going too low? I think that's about right. I might put it at 90%, but I think the bottom line is he's got very little chance of returning at his current salary.

He says he's not taking a pay cut to stay there. I believe him on this one because he's just going to want to see what's behind door number two. And sometimes it's not that pretty. Remember Stephen Jackson was supposed to be a big free agent last year? It's not that pretty for a lot of these guys, and it's especially wild, untamed scenario for running backs who are nearing 30 years old. And Johnson is an interesting case because I actually touched base with U.S. over Instant Messenger yesterday because it's not like Chris Johnson is old.

I think he's 28 now. And it's not like he ever suffered a serious leg injury and is a guy known for his speed. It's the most durable starting running back in the league. He should get credit for that. The longest starting streak of any running back in the entire NFL is Chris Johnson. Yeah, very fair. But at the same time, he's not running like the guy who ran for 2,000 yards. And, Wes, you had pointed out that a lot of that, some of his indecisiveness and jittery nature goes back to maybe bad habits.

He's picked up playing behind some subpar lines. Yeah, there was like a cottage industry of NFL analysts two or three years ago trying to figure out what was wrong with Chris Johnson. And most of them agreed that he was hesitant at the line of scrimmage, didn't trust his blocking. And I think a byproduct of that was he was always trying to hit a home run and wouldn't take, wouldn't lower his pads and just take three yards. So I think that he got into that bad habit And I'm not sure he ever got out of that So but playing off that What about the idea if he signs with a team

That hasn't established run blocking Set up at offensive line And there's a good quarterback Isn't he a potential guy that can go in And have like a well not he's not a similar style But a Cory Dylan type resurgence with the right team I wouldn't rule it out I think what bothers me about him

Is maybe now he runs a 438 or a 44 Instead of a 428 It's not really straight line speed that bothers me I don't think he's laterally as quick as he was early in his career. I don't think there's any chance that he has that kind of resurgence because he doesn't make people miss. He doesn't break tackles, like he said. When he gets hit, he's going down, and then he doesn't make people miss.

He's not a guy. I mean, Matt Forte is not a fast guy, but he makes people miss a lot more than Chris Johnson ever does. I don't think he'll do better than a contract where he's sharing the load with someone. What's interesting about him is if you just started following the NFL in the past three or four years, you don't remember that when he came into the league out of East Carolina I knew a friend who watched tons of college football and I trust this guy implicitly

compared him to a skinnier Marion Barber for his willingness to go into the middle between the tackles, fight for every yard and he's just not that guy anymore. He's almost the opposite of that now. Right. Moving on, there's another player that I put this one at 99%. Antonio Holmes wide receiver for the New York Jets. Obviously he's been a nuisance for the team since...

I thought these were big names. I don't know, maybe Super Bowl MVP snuck on here. Yeah, I mean, this is a guy that was a Super Bowl MVP and was a major reason the Jets made the AFC title game in 2010, but it's been all downhill from there since then. He's turning 30 next month. The Jets will celebrate and throw a party in Florin Park

when the receiver comes off the books and they cut him. I think we all agree he's gone. What kind of market will he have? I would expect a one-year deal, prove-it deal. maybe he gets $3 million from somebody who's desperate for a number two. But I can't see anybody committing to him long term after what he put the Jets through. Kind of like Brandon Lloyd when he had his final year with the Jets. At best.

But I could see him, unlike Chris Johnson, I could see Santonio Holmes getting his act together. I refrain there from swearing. Getting his act together for a year and having a great season because he's only 30 and he's so talented and maybe once he realizes that oh i'm not getting any more big checks or at least as big as they used to be maybe some team like the 49ers could get him on a one year three million dollar deal and he'd have a great year that wouldn't shock how about i love santonio homes as a player i used to at least how about the dallas cowboys who were they just they're going to dump miles austin most likely he's got they could sign him on the cheap line up across from

des brian doesn't have to worry about double teams or anything If he's healthy and motivated, he could actually be a nice fit there. They're the type of team that would go for him because he's signing a name. Why cut Miles Austin just to sign San Antonio Holmes? Because Jerry Jones is prominently involved. I would bet that Miles Austin has a better year than San Antonio Holmes. I agree with that line of thinking. But it does make sense.

It sounds like a guy the Cowboys would sign. Well, it was only two or three off seasons ago that NFL films producer Greg Kosell was getting a lot of flack for including San Antonio Holmes and his top five NFL receivers. By the way, it's NFL films guru. He was an incredible player at his peak that I think is almost oddly underrated in terms of the career he's had and the talent that he has, but he hasn't been that guy for a couple years. Well, it's funny when I was writing the headline for this post

or writing the intro, I was going to say these are five all pros, and then I looked it up. The guy's never been to a Pro Bowl, which is interesting. It's fair. And ultimately, meaning. Yeah, that's fair too. All right, moving on, Terrell Suggs, outside line. for the Baltimore Ravens.

Interesting case because this was a guy that had nine sacks through eight weeks coming off that Achilles injury, and he kind of looked like a guy who's going to be a comeback player of the year. And then the wheels kind of fell off in terms of productivity. He had one sack and 20 tackles in the last eight weeks, kind of no-show down the stretch. He's 31. He's going to count 12.4 million on the books for another team with cap issues.

And we know that general manager, Ozzy, So I already acknowledged that Suggs was no lock to return. I set this one at 40% because I think that Ozzie, they'll work something out. What do you guys think? This one's the most interesting one to me because we don't know what happened in the second half of last year that caused his production to fall off so precipitously. Nice word. Thank you.

Better pronunciation even, because that's a tough one to roll out. I was going out on a limb there. I wasn't sure if it'd be able to pull it off. I respect the hell out of you for that. Thank you. All right, go on. You use more big words than anyone I know. And I respect that.

Just naturally in a nice sentence. That comes from reading, which is fundamental. We went off the rails because we wanted to praise Wes so much. We've turned the podcast into an after-school special. Exactly. All right, go ahead, Wes. Well, I think he's so respected on that team. And after they lose Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, he's their leader.

So that makes it tricky. But it's one of those situations when a guy does fall off the cliff like that. there are things that Ozzie Newsom and the scouts know that we don't know and if he's talking about the possibility of cutting him maybe they believe he'll never get back to that form that he showed before his Achilles I was really surprised when he threw that out there at their state of the Ravens postseason press conference because usually those things you don't get a lot of news

and he threw that out there for a reason it was to tell Tugs his agent or tell the public to prepare them that hey if this guy doesn't take a pay cut he's not coming back. You don't say that publicly unless you already have that in your head that we need to restructure and we're not comfortable bringing him back to this out. I'm surprised, but you also trust that Ozzie Newsom knows when to cut a guy loose. Unless it's Anquan Baldwin.

That's fair. And they had a lot of cap issues last year at that point, and they basically decided to sign a handful of defensive players instead of Bolden. And so maybe they're trying to. escape some of that cap problems now. Moving on. DeMarcus Ware at defensive end, Dallas Cowboys. Of course, Ware is once one of the game's most fearsome pass rushers, but it feels like

these injuries have kind of taken their toll. He hasn't been the same guy, certainly not last year. He had six sacks all season, completely disappeared down the stretch as the Cowboys flopped again in December. He's due $12.25 million, and the Cowboys have some cap issue. He could be a guy that if he doesn't restructure, he could go, right? Set this one to 50% could go either way, fellas. I'd be surprised if Ware's cut just because the Cowboys,

the way they operate, they keep their own, especially when they're stars. I just would think that Jerry Jones is so attached to DeMarcus Ware that he wouldn't get rid of him. This is your only one that you're way off. 50%. Yeah. I'd give it five. There's no chance he's going to get cut. They're not going to cut DeMarcus Ware.

coming off one sort of injury plague season. He says he doesn't want to take a pay cut and he doesn't expect to get cut and he shouldn't. They keep clowns well past their expiration date. I mean, they kept Jay Ratliff on the team last year after he yelled at Jerry Jones and was injured the whole season before and didn't play the season before and they changed schemes and they're still, we'll pay you $6 million because you were once good ones. There is no way they would cut away. Does this play into the...

I don't care who said what. Does this play into the fact that I am putting more stock into the idea of teams in salary cap duress than you do? Because you are very passionate that salary cap constraints are overrated. And I just mentioned some salary cap issues for the Ravens. For the most part, salary cap problems are the most overrated, over-talked about NFL topic of February and March. teams can always get ways around it. And if teams are willing to spend like the cowboys and the redskins and pay more money up front now, you can always just keep pushing that pain into the future.

Like you can with mortgages and everything else. Relationships. And they generally get away with it. It's a factor, but it's not that big of a factor. We can even go a step farther and say that the best teams rarely even talk about the salary cap, rarely make that excuse. The worst run teams constantly bemoan their lot. in life due to the salary cap and we'll never shut up about it.

And salary cap, even if you do have really big problems, which are usually not that big, you know who gets cut bad players? Bad players that make a lot. And I don't think to Marcus Ware would ever be put in that category, even if he struggled. Stop. The first half of last season before he was injured, I heard a lot of analysts say he's never looked faster on the football field than he did before he was injured last year. I don't think if he had the worst

If he had one sack and only played two games And was way worse I don't think they'd cut him even then Because he's DeMarcus Ware He's the best draft pick they've had In the last 15 years All right well then Last one

Should have talked to me before writing that one up I wrote it knowing you'd be angry You were out of pocket It would be beautiful It would be like oh the podcast A lot of debate Embrace debate Last one Julius Pepper's

Defensive End Chicago Bears He's going Julius Pepper is, by the way, is 34 years old, also in decline. And somehow, and this might be going back to what you were saying about, you could always just push things back, push things back. I think this might have been a restructure situation because he's due $18 million this year. He's due $14 million, but he counts $18 million against the cap. And I think that's just the way the contract was made,

thinking that he'd never get this far with the Bears. Well, he has. And you would think unless he restructures and takes half that amount of, of money, he's gone, right? The difference between DeMarcus Ware and Julie's Peppers is that Ware can still play as well now as he ever has when he's healthy. Peppers cannot play as well now. He's not the same player.

He's not disruptive anymore. And that's the problem. You can't pay, you can't devote $18 million of your salary cap to that player. He's still a good player. He's an NFL starter. He'll get a contract. There's no way he's staying for that money. We don't know if he's amenable to taking a pay cut to stay.

I've got a what-if scenario. All right. It's going to be awfully hard for the Panthers to keep Greg Hardy at the franchise tag number or pay him and Charles Johnson each over $10 million a year. Julius Pepper is homecoming to replace the Cracken and back with the Panthers. You are firing up resident Panthers fan David Ely. Do another set of those biceps, Ely. He's loving this.

The UNC product comes home. Ely pumps iron. and listens to our podcast, our editor downstairs. I'm not saying the Panthers will set Greg Hardy free, but this isn't a home run that they're definitely going to resign him. I think Pepper is 8. Let's go 80%. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair.

All right. So, yes, as Greg alluded to, we're going to be digging in hardcore on free agent stuff, because honestly, what else do we have to talk about? I mean, that's a major aspect of this time of the year, isn't it? Certainly. All right, moving on, we talked about our off-season forecast. through every team and giving a little breakdown of what's changing, biggest needs, who could be out, what's needed, and a crystal ball where we're just really digging in.

Man, we do not shut it down here. We delve. We delve. I shut it down last week at the end of the week. We didn't see, Greg, you were recharging, but you were full of life and vitality right now. I had a lot of good family time. I'm ready to go. Should we start by getting our ATL compatriot Kevin Patcher on the line?

Little known that he's also our Jacksonville Jaguars correspondent. A fate worse than death. He penned our Jacksonville Jaguars off-season forecast, and it only seems right to have Kevin's thoughts on this. Kevin Patrick, are you there? I am here, sir. Wow. Kevin Patrick, you know, shocking, we didn't have a lot of organization

when it came to this off-season forecast. You just on Saturday just decided to take it upon your... yourself to just fall on the Jacksonville Jaguars grenade? Why is this? I don't know. I just felt like I wanted to pick a random team that I don't usually look at and take a deeper look at them. So why don't you give us a kind of an overview, a glance at the Jaguars as they once again continue or begin a rebuilding process?

Well, they ended the season 4 and 12 after starting 0 and 8, and I really thought that they had some progress on the stretch. I think they have the right coach in Gus Bradley. I think he got a team with probably the least amount of talent in the NFL to play a little bit above their heads. Clearly, they need a quarterback. They need to fix a quarterback situation. The offensive line, especially in the interior, is an absolute mess.

They need to pass rush. I mean, they have a lot of needs. They have a lot of need. They have $50 million around there in tap space in the offseason. They have a lot of needs to fill, but I think they have the right GM. I think they have the right coach. They need the quarterback to get to move forward. Yeah.

To me, this all starts at the quarterback position. They obviously whiffed on Blaine Gabbard on an epic level. So now they have to hit on again. And when you miss on a quarterback, it ends up setting a franchise back, you know, three years. And I guess that's how long they gave Gabbard. And now they're going to take another shot of this. That will be where they go in the first round, right? I would think so, but I really think it depends.

I mean, for some reason, the Jamaian Clown did follow them. I think that would be, in my opinion, he's a player, and that would fill another need for them. if they're not enamored. I mean, I would assume that Johnny Men & Giselle goes before them and they're not sold on any of the other quarterbacks. They've talked about bringing Chad Henney back. Caldwell's on the record multiple times saying they want to talk to him before

a free agency about bringing him back. To me, that tells me that maybe they want him as another stopgat here. If they try to go to a more developmental quarterback later in the draft, someone maybe they think they can start railway but maybe cannot jump in and they can have another year of top yet. This isn't a team that I can see making the playoffs next year so they do have another year work with.

It's tricky to have multiple stops, multiple years where you're not really going for a quarterback. This is this group's second year. So they didn't draft Gabber and they were patient last year and decided not to really dip into the quarterback pool. Let's build up the rest of the

team first. That was the Seattle mindset before really jumping on the quarterback. But at some point, you got to go for it, and they're up at the top of the drop. Another year of Henny and, like, a third-round pick at quarterback, it's hard to imagine. Yeah. It is, and the owner is on record is saying, Shat Khan, is saying they'll take one or two, and then Caldwell kind of be like, well, we don't know about that.

So I think they're hedging their best. Well, what about, so obviously the quarterback is the highest profile need, but what is the other area of the team that you think they really need to push hard to address? Well, like I said, I think the interior offensive line, their two guards were awful. Their center, Meester is retiring after 15, 18 years with the organization. I think that is key because especially if they bring in a young quarterback, you don't want them to keep pressure up the middle is the worst thing for any quarterback and especially a young quarterback.

Well, you went through, like we do in all these forecasts, you know, who are the big free agents and who could get cut? And the big free agents were Chad Hennie and Maurice Jones Drew. Their list is just not. And, you know, Will Blackman is there too. Yeah, other key free agents. You know, with the Steelers, I had a hard time boiling it down to just four or five in the big section. And then I had seven or eight in the other key.

And you just have poor Will Blackman all by himself. You don't even want to give them. Others, but I was going to be like, I mean, really, I couldn't even lie to myself about them being a big. I mean, the guys had played one snap on their free agents. Patro was thinking of putting Keenan McArdle on the list, just to beef it up a little bit. See if anybody was reading. Will Blackman was signed off the street on August 31st of last summer. Right.

And he was their second best defensive player in the secondary. Seriously, that's a positive. If they want to get Henny back, they can bring them back, and they can sign another quarterback. They basically aren't losing anyone this offseason except for Jones Drew potentially. Jason Babin is the other person that has a big name, him and Gabber, as potential guys that could get cut. Both of those make a lot of sense to me. Here's the Jaguars in a nutshell.

I spent a good portion of my weekend. Looking at how all 32 teams in the NFL were built, where are these people on their rosters come from? The Jaguars... By the way, that's why Wes was a grade higher, Greg, that sentence. That just unfurled. The Jaguars have, by far, the most players in their roster,

claimed off waivers, signed off another team's practice squad, or signed off the street in August or during the season. that composes more than half their roster That's good That means at least You're not losing anyone that you want It means that poor David Caldwell Was left with nothing by Gene Smith

But he knew that coming in That was the catch of taking this job All right, when you patch it before we let you go Offseason Crystal Ball Time What do you see happening? How is it going to play out for the Jags? Well I do think Maurice Jones Who moves on

Colwell has been on several times. He'd let him hit free agency. You don't do that if you're going to try to keep your best player. I think Jordan Todman is a restrict, not a restrictive, exclusive rights for agents, so they get a cheaper running back there. And I think they come out a little bit aggressive. I think he tries to get depth as opposed to the best talent out there to pay high. They have so many needs.

But I think they do have cap space. That's the one benefit that he's gotten to Cala has them in position. They do have cap space this year. Yeah, but does it cap space enough to lower impact-free agents? Does anybody want to go to Jacksonville? It doesn't matter. People are dying to play with Chad Haney. Just pay him.

You pay them $300,000 more than the other team. Players go in there. No one cares. Not me. They should think about it, though. Kevin Patrick, coming at you. We'll be in touch with you all off-season, really, but it's great to hear your voice.

You sound really good. I appreciate it. Have a good, both. Do we want to do another one before we go? Let's do it. Sure, one more. All right. Greg, you actually just posted this on the Around the League blog before you came upstairs.

The Pittsburgh Steelers. So why don't we gave the Jags the respect they deserve. They're one of the 32. And that just shows, again, how well-rounded we are as a podcast. We're giving the Jags so much credit. We start with them. And now we go to a dynasty-level franchise in the NFL. The Pittsburgh Steelers.

Greg, give us an overview of what's going on with the Steelmen. I think it's a really fast. fascinating team to watch this off season and a fascinating time for this franchise because GM Kevin Colbert's been there forever. Mike Tomlin's won a Super Bowl's been to another. But how many more of these non-playoff seasons can the Roonies abide by before they start shaking some things up before making some big changes? And this roster, which used to look so good, I think has more problems than it has had.

in Colbert's entire run. Their entire defense has major questions up and down. They also need some wide receivers. I think they have a lot of problems, and it's going to be a very active obviously. They have big decisions to make everywhere on this roster. We talked about this last Thursday about their defense, that they could be losing Palomalo, Ryan Clark,

Ike, Taylor, Brett Kiesel, guys who have been there basically for a decade. And they don't have anybody in line to replace those guys. And Lamar Woodley, who has been a huge disappointment, is due a lot of money. Jason Worlds, who is probably their most explosive defensive player in the second half last year. He's a free agent. Some of their good players are free agents. Emmanuel Sanders, who was a starter, not a great player, but a starter.

Jason World's a free agent. Ryan Clark is as good as gone. They're not going to re-sign him. And then you mentioned all those guys that maybe they'll cut. Ike Taylor is a guy, I think. they'll definitely cut Troy Palomalu I think they'll keep him and then Woodley and it's just there's a lot of needs here and it's not a franchise that's used to signing quick fixes and yet they have about seven starting spots just up for grabs you say Troy Palamalu are they keeping

him as a mascot at this point isn't he not even close to the guy he wants I know we should respect him he's a great commercial actor but I mean at one point do we just cut the court and say Troy you were a great player for us but you're not the same guy he was okay he had a good year last year. I mean, he was exposed in coverage a few times, but that happened four years ago. He is going to be paid $8.25 million. He wasn't a bad starting NFL player last year, and he's Palomalo, kind of like DeMarcus Ware. You better have a big reason to cut him. I think when, I think it was Art Rooney said, we plan to have Troy Palomalo on the team. We expect him to be on the team. He sounded like they're going to maybe extend his contract and reduce his average number.

restructure, do something, I think he'll stick around. I mean, he's okay. Where's Jarvis Jones in all this? Because I know Jason Worlds, you know, they were high on Jones, they drafted him high. Jason Worlds was supposed to be the stopgap until Jones is ready, and now they might want to keep him around. Did Jones just not progress as a rookie? Well, we see this every year.

Jones actually played more than most Dick LeBoe draft picks. Usually first rounders for the Steelers have a red shirt year and then come in their second year. And I think they fully expect him to start opposite either Worlds or Woodley, depending if Woodley's cut and World's re-signed, they'll keep one of those guys. It's a really interesting decision that they either have to keep Woodley,

who at his best is a top 10 pass rusher. But that hasn't happened really since he got his money. There's questions about his conditioning. Or do they cut him not really save that much money against the cap because he had so much guaranteed money, it's not going to save that much,

and sign Worlds. It'd be a gutsy move that they really feel like Worlds is the guy, but when Woodley came back into the lineup last year, they didn't change Worlds' position. They put Woodley on the other side. They gave Worlds the left side, which is where Woodley had been. He played great. I mean, that was a sign of faith of him. Yeah, it's quite the conundrum because Worlds really never played up to his draft status until the second half of last year. Right. So until his contract year run, he never did anything. We're getting deep on the ATL podcast. Little Jason World's discussion.

Greg, what are the biggest needs for this team to improve? It's mostly on defense, which is weird. They are going to lose two defensive ends. Ziggy Hood and Brett Kiesel are both free agents. They can sign Kiesel if they want for a short one-year deal, but he's not a starter anymore. They could use two defense events, two or three. They're not really sure what they have at outside linebacker.

We just talked about it. Inside linebacker, I don't know if they're fully comfortable with both their starters, the secondary. I really think the entire defense needs help, and then they need a wide receiver. Manuel Sanders and Jericho Cotry. They're two and three from last year are both free agents. I think Sanders will probably leave.

You bring back Cotry for cheap. You let Marcus Wheaton start. The problem with this team has been they haven't been developing guys like they used to. I think maybe this team more than any other in the league, the draft this year could determine whether they continue to be. the solid Steelers or go down the drain because they really need to replenish the entire defense.

They need to hit on three or four draft picks this year who become starters and impact players. And I think they did a fine job in last year's draft. They just have to kind of continue that. And Greg, I like that you didn't even entertain in your forecast the thought of a Ben

Rafflesberger trade. Oh, stop. I appreciate that. Why would I do that? Because there will be forecasts of similar around the internet that we'll at least discuss that because it has come up and we've reported in our building that that was something that was in the cards. I ended the forecast with it.

In Rathesberger, we trust. If this team has a chance, it's not because of their 53-man roster, it's maybe they can plug enough holes, make enough smart decisions, have a good draft, Ben gets hot and they win 11 games. I mean, you have a chance to do that

when you have that good a quarterback. It went eight and four in their final 12 games this year. Crystal ball, Greg. I am getting rid of Ryan Clark That's not a tough one to do Ike Taylor I think will be cut Emmanuel Sanders I think signs elsewhere I think Jason World signs elsewhere

If Paul Kruger can get that big of a contract So can Jason Worlds I mean he could Oh hold on why not He's not getting 40 million He could get something close Why not? What did Paul Kruger ever do That Jason Worlds hasn't done? He had a great half of season

Took his team to the Super Bowl? Well, if the Steelers had made the playoffs, maybe it would have been Jason Worlds at top instead of Malcolm Smith. Nice out of the chair. That's an absurd chair outer scenario there. You like Jason Worlds more than his agent does. No, I don't really like Jason World's agent. I don't really love Worlds that much.

I think, and we can talk about this. Maybe we'll just have a friendly gentleman's lunch on that World's will get 80% of what Krueger gets. I'm already in on that one. All right, okay. It's been settled. Back to the crystal ball. World's walks.

I think they give Woodley another shot because he's so talented. They just decide to keep him. He doesn't even necessarily have to take a pay cut to stay or they work out a small pay cut. He stays. Cottry comes back. Palo Malo comes back. Everyone's happy. Marcus Wheaton breakout season.

There you go. All right. I like it, fellas. All right. So that's it for Monday's edition of the Around the League podcast. We'll be back on Wednesday. and then again on Friday, yes, we go three times a week

all through the offseason, even in February. Greg, we have some guests in studio on Wednesday. Is that correct? Yeah, I'm going to feel like a smaller man than I normally do with Red Bryant and Brandon Meabain. Wow. The two, Red Bryant's one of the biggest players in the NFL,

and Mebain's not far behind. They're in the studio. It should be fun. Always good when we have human beings in the studio with us. And then on Friday, win Wes's toaster will return, or I hope it returns, the gold standard. What's going on? How are we getting some good potential contestants? We've got a nice search going on.

I'm bringing it to the committee and we'll, you know, get it down to a solid candidate. What committee is this? This is what we pay you for. No, it's a subcommittee. Yeah, it's capitalism, Greg. Wes, after your dominant performance, our last go around a couple of months back, You seem to be not to have a care in the world, a man that just at the top of his game like Michael Jordan 93.

Right. I kind of feel like Michael Jordan a little bit like Alexander the Great. You conquer the world and you have to sit down and cry because there's nothing left to conquer. That's how I feel about the toaster. You're Pete Carroll the day after the Super Bowl comparing the Broncos to his opponents at USC. I was amazed by that way. I don't know if anyone saw that. He was like, it reminded me in my USC days.

I was like, wow. I don't know. There's some pride right there, buddy. you might be Mike Tyson in the Tokyo Dome Oh are you saying there's hubris here? There could be, yes, there could be a Buster Douglas waiting to take you on But we'll see We'll see, so that will be Friday

So get excited Greg not excited about that But he might be coming around on the game a little bit I get a vibe It's okay I mean it's the off season so we can put in some of this clownish stuff Clownish Clown question The Shrine Circus in here

All right, that's it We're getting out of here We'll be back on Wednesday signing off, this is Dan Hens for the mailman, the boss, the gold standard behind the glass, and handsome Hank, the notorious DOP. Until Wednesday.