NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL ATL: Players set to slide

Episode Date: July 14, 2014

A room with some heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal and Marc Sessler -- react to the latest news from around the league including Eli Manning's chances of returning to form, a defensive resurgence in Baltimore and the Browns' new mascot. The guys also debate which teams are "Super Bowl or bust" in 2014 and wrap up the "Making the Leap" series with an explosive playmaker in Minnesota. Lastly, which star players will begin to slide in 2014?Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the League podcast is making the leap. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the League podcast. My name is Dan Hansis and I am joined by a room filled with some heroes. Mark Sessler and Greg Rosenthal. What up, boys? What up? Good to be back.

Greg, out of the chair immediately, back from vacation. What did you do on vacation, Greg? I listened to our podcast, and I heard from a variety of sources, but mostly from Mark's mouth that Dan and Chris Wesleyan were running amok last week, but Mark was the only one that could keep things in line. Unfortunately, and I feel for Dan and West, that is accurate. I didn't really think that we were that out of control, but perhaps we're just bad boys.

Maybe we're the bad boys of ATL, and Mark, who I thought was maybe isn't. I care about the league. I had a very nice vacation, though, to answer your question. It's delicious to have a vacation where you don't get on a plane and travel anywhere. You know, we had a three-night trip at one point, but it was great. That's good. And now Chris Wessling, the chair is empty. He is now in Cincinnati.

He will be doing some time with a family for the next week. So this is what happens before training camp starts. We get all this vacation stuff out of the way, and then we come together like a force for the start of training camp. So that's it. This is the last week of vacation among us, right? I have brought a bit of Chris into the studio. Oh, what's that? Well, because it's 12 degrees in here.

And I am wearing Chris's, what would you call this? Varsity Letter Jacket? A petticoat. Very fluffy pockets. It is kind of adorable that you're wearing, like, his jacket is oversized on you. I thought you brought in, like, a lock of his hair or something weird. So that's acceptable. A lock of Chris Wesleyan's hair.

I see that he pinned your jacket, too, like they did. in the old days. Now you're my girl forever. It's a great garment. This really is the last week, though, Dan. Friday, the Buffalo Bills show up to work and start a little thing called training camp. The summer is over. It's coming.

That's this upcoming Friday. That's four days from now. Wow. And you know, even before that, we're going to have our AFC training camp preview to get ready for that. We're going to do that. The AFC training camp preview. NFC next week. That's right.

We're going to get into all of that. It's going to be very good. On the site and on the podcast. NFL.com slash ATL for everything that you're looking for. And speaking of which, the Making the Leap series, which we've been counting down for the last several weeks, comes to a conclusion on today's show.

We're going to hit the number two and number one, making the leap candidates. We're going to get Kevin Patra, our ATL Chicago correspondent. I like to think of Patra. as if you used to watch Inside the NFL NFL on HBO back in the day, he's like our Gary Myers comes in, he like sidles into the studio, and he just drops some nuggets and then he disappears. Gary Myers?

I like that. You don't remember Myers as a sidekick? I was thinking Jimmy the Greek potentially, minus the gambling issues. But we'll talk about this after the show. Gary Myers, we are the Newsday reporter. Okay. He used to be inside the NFL. Okay.

Let's keep moving. Sorry, Greg. I don't know. Sorry you didn't have premium cable as a kid. Go put it on me. Go a little more high octane than Gary Myers. Come on. He was good back then.

Okay, so we're going to wrap up the Making the Leap. We are also going to get into some players that we believe will, whatever the opposite of making the leap is, guys that will regress starting this year. We're going to go around the table and nominate a few guys for that title, which is not something you want to be involved with. But before any of that, T.D. How are you, buddy? What's going on, guys? How are you guys doing? Good. And a lot of people ask on Twitter now, just like they did when Gold Standard was our producer,

we're getting a lot of tweets. How do you follow Black Tie? How do you follow TD? What is his handle? And it is. At producer TD. And it's not. Which is very good. Yeah, it's not something I usually plug on shows because it's not my show guys. You're a humble man. But if you want to follow and get some thoughts and all things. sports. I'm not a one sport guy, though, so people do kind of get...

Fire beware. And he is a humble man, other than the fact that before today's show, he was talking about the possibility of buying a yellow Camaro one day because he is in that pocket in life where he feels like it wouldn't be ridiculous. It would be the least ridiculous right now. Let's put it that way. Giving us some thought. But real quick, though, I just love, again, Greg's body language. I love when he's fired up. He's pointing. It's kind of like Picking Manning at the line. He just keeps pointing it stuff. T.D. is a body language expert, and we'll be leaning on

that often during the regular season when it comes to watching games and reactions on the sidelines, things of that nature. That will be a great tool. I'm glad you're a fan. I mean, some people have suggested medicine for all this, but I guess using it to my advantage. Both fair suggestions.

TD, can we do some news? Is that the final whistle that ends the World Cup. Dan, you got it exactly right. Exactly. I know different sports. You know, that's what it was. You know, it's the final whistle.

It's a soccer whistle, that three-prong whistle, and it's a wrap on the World Cup. I know you guys are plugged in like I was, and former producer Goldstander was, so. There is some relief that it's over. Does anyone else feel that? I'm just kind of... I enjoyed it, I have to say. I like that it was on in the office.

I like that it was just something different every four years. I loved it, too, but when it was over, I thought, good, get out of our face. By the way, it's hard to take you serious right now, Mark, because you're purple fleece that you're right, is now you've lowered it below your shoulders, and it's almost an intimate It is rubbing against the microphone,

so I had to take this, whatever, this overcoat and put it around. It's something like a hot chick would do to, like, let you know she's interested, like expose her shoulders. The body language guy is over there. Yeah, body language on this one, too. I'm not loving it, I got to say. It was for audio issues. It

It wasn't suggestive. I, you know, I took it that way. What were we talking? Oh, the World War Show. Yeah, congrats to Germany. Yeah, every four years to me, it's perfect. Yeah. It was a ton of fun, but we've got something else to get on to.

I would say, though, as a big soccer football fan. It was sort of depressing when Team USA went out, not because we're out of the tournament, but also because most people at work stop watching. Yeah, the air when I blew it very quickly. I was like the only one who was at my desk to watch in the game, so I kind of felt bad. I watched yesterday. I got to try, look like I'm working. All right.

So anyway, let's do some news. The Denver Broncos are five months removed from a tough beating in the Super Bowl at the hands of the Seattle Seahawks. Now you double down this season. They have Manning, who's not getting any younger. They get DeMarcus Ware. You know, this is a team obviously built to win now. And it makes sense that cornerback Chris Harris had this to say to ESPN.com's Jeff Legwald.

Guys know what's at stake this year. At least they should. It's Super Bowl or a bust for us. That's a fair statement, right? That's fair. For Denver? Yeah, I mean, anything less. Let me...

Go ahead, Greg. I was going to say it got us thinking. It got us thinking. I'm going to throw out. I just came up with a list. You let me know if I missed anybody here. Teams where it's absolutely Super Bowl or bust. Right.

Like, as a fan of the Patriots, for instance, it's a weird spot because I really appreciate how good they are year after year. And I appreciate it when they make the Super Bowl, even if they lose. but there is a feeling at this point that it's basically a huge disappointment if they don't win the Super Bowl, which is a tough bar, but that's sort of where they said it. So what other teams are at that point where if they don't win or make the Super Bowl, the whole season's a letdown? And there is to tie in another sport outside football, baseball. There was George Steinbrenner, they used to call the Steinbrenner Doctrine around the Yankees organization, and it was as follows, anything short of a World Series championship is considered failure,

which is a very hard way to do business internally. And the pressure is outrageous because it's hard to win a Super Bowl. So here are the six teams I thought of. Greg, you mentioned the Patriots, Niners, Seahawks, Broncos are four for sure to me. And then the two that we talked about downstairs, Packers and Saints. It seems to me those are two teams that are conditioned to want that Super Bowl or bust. I totally agree. And the thing that they both have in common is that the coach and quarterback that are in place right now have won Super Bowls.

And I think once you get one and everything around you is legitimate and the quarterbacks in his prime, then anything short of that's a big letdown. And that's the B-line for every team you mentioned. There's a quarterback riding the wave of either in the prime or with Denver and New England and maybe to some extent New Orleans, quarterbacks near the end. Yes. Are there any teams not mentioned there that maybe are close to that level or have just come down from that level? I don't think New Orleans is the one that's even tricky.

I mean, it's crazy for me as someone who went to a lot of games coached by Jim Haslett and quarterbacked by Aaron Brooks that even making the Super Bowl. Greg Roseville, a two-lane graduate, would somehow be a disappointment for the Saints. So they're close. I don't think anyone else is that close. I mean, if Philly made the Super Bowl, wouldn't that just be a, we're happy to be here? That is a huge win. I mean, it'd be great to win the actual game. But if you get there, you're happy.

I think the same would be true for the culture. or even the Steelers, if they bounce back. I can't think of another team. All right, well, then we'll cap it right there. Moving forward, here's another team. Maybe you can make a case where a given you have, again, the quarterback and coach together, the New York Giants. One off-season storyline for this team has been the rise of Giants' offensive coordinator

Ben McAdoo, who replaced Kevin Gilbride and Eli Manning coming off, I guess, the worst season of his career or since he became. a veteran quarterback had this the quote, this quote to say, it's re-energized me, Manning told the New York Daily News. I'm trying to speed up the process of getting comfortable in the new offensive system. I don't have 10 years. I have a few months.

Are we buying? We buying a little giant offensive resurgence. I am buying the idea that they, if you're Eli Manning, that there's something about challenging about this stage of your career now to be able to have a new coordinator, that new language wants to be impressed in a different way. Eli Manning's had a rough road the past couple seasons, but there's a lot of good things being said about their play caller.

Well, I think they have talent on that roster at wide receiver. Eli Manning's shown he can do it in the past, but Ben McAdoo is one of the big wild cards this season. We don't know. We don't know if he's any good or not. One thing that's similar with Eli, Manning, Peyton Manning, it's been the same system as whole life. Kevin Gilbride is there forever.

Tom Coffin, there forever. Peyton Manning, until he moved to Denver, he never really changed systems. They changed the coaches there a little bit, but it was always the same system. So it's a big adjustment. Maybe it'll be great for you. Maybe it'll be terrible for him to have a big change.

I don't know. We don't know. The only other Packers offensive coordinator to come out of that McCarthy tree is Joe Philbin. Not too impressive. Not a hot resume, but Dan, you are probably more on the Eli train than some. I mean, I'm probably higher on Eli than Chris Wessling as an example who doesn't think too highly of him.

But I also understand with Eli, if there's one player that's the ultimate wild card player of his generation, it's Eli Manning. You really don't know what you're getting year to year week to week with him. Would it shock me if he put up Pro Bowl production? No. If he had another year like last year, I wouldn't be crazy shocked either. It's impossible to tell. and Gilbred, after 10 years, it was right to get him out of town and reboot the machine a little bit before Eli gets old.

I think I like what the Giants did, and I like the moves they made. I think they've set themselves up well, but I don't think it guarantees anything. Before they all get fired. I mean, Coughlin and Eli, they had to do something. If this doesn't work, if it bombed out, they could all be fired, including Eli. The Ravens finished out of the top 10 in total defense for the second consecutive year in 2013. That hadn't happened in the first. franchises history since moving from, Mark, Cleveland in 1996.

Come on, Mark. I will not utter that. You are a factory of standing! That was just, I was just dropping. I'm not going to joyfully chime in with that. Anytime we point at you, we're looking for the answer, Cleveland. Honestly, I am. Beautifully in baking warm in the sweatshers.

I just was in a little bit. I didn't think it was my turn to see anything. The stretchers now crept back over the shoulders, which makes me more comfortable. Anyway, so back to the point, last 15 years. This is the last two years of the first time they've finished out of the top 10 in total defense. John Harbaugh expects the defense to make a jump back to prominence in 2014. This is his quote. The expectation for our defense is to be top five at the worst, Harbaugh said.

It has always been that way and always will be. One thing I want to add before I throw it to you guys is the amount of turnover here. In the NFL, this is indicative of the whole league, but they won the Super Bowl on February 3rd. 2013. There's two guys left on the entire starting defense. Hologi and Terrell Suggs. That's it.

So this is a totally new defense, essentially. It's a ton of change inside what otherwise has been an incredibly consistent organization. So that's less, it's not like they changed every coach and they brought it in a whole new regime. I think what, A, it's coach speak, but B, what Harbaugh likes. Number one, Matt Elam's going to move over to strong safety,

which is his natural position. And they keep, in their mind, hitting it on draft picks. They've gone heavy on the draft on defense. And C.J. Mosley lit it up in the spring. And they feel like he's a weak-one starter. That's where your hope lies with some of these young guys. Right. And also with guys that were on the roster for the Super Bowl,

but weren't starting back then. Lardarius Webb was injured. Could be a top-level cornerback. Jimmy Smith, who was arrested over the weekend, is a pretty good starting. Very promising. He's a good starting cornerback. And so they're needing these young guys like Moseley, those two cornerbacks to step up.

Brandon Williams is probably going to start at defensive tackle. They need that next generation because that's the team. That's the way this team has won in the past. And yeah, to your point, Mark, the last three picks of each of the past two drafts, the Ravens have gone defense. So Ozzy Newsom, who should be given the benefit of of the doubt. We know what he's capable of has realized that change was a coming. He's invested in a new defense.

and now we get to see what happens with it. I think they were a little better last year, too, than people remember. They were pretty effective for most of the year. It was more of the offense. Also, the entire concede of what I just brought up is this is the second straight year. They finished out of the top 10. That first year, they won the Super Bowl. So you don't need a dominating defense.

Right. And the thing that I'd be most worried about that people don't talk about is they've had a great string of defensive coordinator masterminds over the year. You know, Rex Ryan and Marvin Lewis and Mike Noland. and did really well for them. Got Pagano? Not a lot of people, you know, getting too excited about Dean P's. No, Dean Peas did a nice job, though.

I'm just saying, Mr. Peas. People aren't like, ooh, watch out for P's, really. He's the only guy to basically get fired by Bill Belichick for being the defensive coordinator. It's harder to market a guy named Dean Peas. Let's be honest. It's tough. I don't know if you got, if you listened to the end of last week, last week's show and Mark defended Jim Caldwell. I did.

Now, Dean Peas. Now he's getting in on Dean Peas. Listen, I think that you don't have to look too far, other than the Ravens to see that Caldwell did a nice job. Pease did a nice job. He's won the Super Bowl. So, I mean, what do you need to do? You got to be a tough guy, a tough-minded individual to survive the childhood that taunts that came at Dean Peas. He could have gone DP.

Non-stop. Because you can either you can either cave in or you can respond and become an NFL coach. My name is Dean Peas. Yeah, D.P. He should not go by D.P. Fair enough. All right. Moving on, the Cleveland Browns, Mark.

Cleveland. Hoyer. What do you got for me? I'm going to use your lead from your post on the around the league page. The Cleveland Browns have a new coach, a new quarterback, M-Dash, and a new mascot. Oh, yeah. The team will use a live bull-mast-heaf to lead the players onto the field come Sundays. Of course, the name of the canine, Swagger.

You are a factory of sandit! Mark? That is ill-placed, that sound clip, because I think things, the whole point is they feel you got LeBron James in town now, you got Johnny football, things are changed a little bit, so why not get, I think we also called it a four-legged trinket to leave these players out onto the field. And you also mentioned...

You're excited about Swagger. I am, you know, they haven't actually... pinpointed a dog to play this role. Right, but there will be a dog. It's a concept at this point. This is a move by the Browns to, again, use Mark's wording to lift their profile after, quote, years of serving as a cue rating Netherworld, referring to Cleveland. So, Mark, you seem to be plugged in on this Mastief situation, and who knows?

Hopefully it works out for you. I think it's the beginning of something. Don't you worry about this live animal on the field, though, the Browns being involved? Right, that's true. And I don't like the name Swagger. Give me a break. Here's what I would take away. The only other three teams that use living animal mascots are Seattle, Denver, and Baltimore.

Two of one, the last two Super Bowls, and the other attended one of those games. So step back. You have a cessler about Swagger? Listen. I like where this is going. I think Swagger is my deodorant that I use. I know that. That is a good scent.

Tid, you had a thought on this? Yeah, quick hot take here. Cleveland, obviously right now, it was the center of the sports universe. Did you guys happen to see Brian Horace tweet when you welcome LeBron James back? Yes. You did.

Brian Hoyer has a Twitter account? He does have a Twitter account. Is it verified? Yes, it is. Don't you need like five NFL starts to get verified? He had a tweet that, if you guys saw, it was pretty much directed at Johnny Mansell, right?

Ooh, let's hear it. All right, here he goes. He goes, best quote from at King James article. In Northeast Ohio, nothing is given. everything is earned you have to work for what you have hashtag cleveland i'm reading into that i'm not he has been very withdrawn but i listen i think people forget that the the heat around hoyer is that he grew up in cleveland played high school football there that's why he's got some stained power Greg pointed out a photo where what was it there was there was a guy at the indians game hoyer uh throughout the first

pitch of course as a as a dignitary and one of the biggest all right Stars of Cleveland. Someone had a huge sign-up with his picture on it that said, this is Hoyer country. Or Cleveland is Hoyer country. Cleveland, stay out of your own way. Come on, guys. Speaking of the Cleveland Browns, authorities say the truck stop company owned by Brown's owner Jimmy Haslam and Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam has agreed to pay $92 million in fines for cheating customers

out of promised rebates and discounts. Obviously, this is something that's been hanging over the franchise for more. than a year now, the pilot Flying J Company has now accepted responsibility for the criminal conduct of its employees, 10 of whom have pleaded guilty to participating in the scheme. Greg, do you want to give some insight on what this might mean for Jimmy Hazel? No, I don't. I'm just setting you up. I'm not a legal expert.

This is one of those stories, though, when I read the press release that came out with it, you just don't know everything unless you are a lawyer. Like, I don't know if this means it's the end of the story. It's obviously good news. There's no way that it's bad news, and I'm sure the Browns will be excited if this is just behind them now. Well, it's good news for some people, one of them being Jimmy Haslam in theory. Right, I think. I'm not.

It's not good news for everyone. What about Swagger? Is it possible he could end up in a kennel or some type of bad situation? I believe there are still adequate funds to bring Swagger on board. Swagger. Some made-up concept. You know what? Stop losing 12 games before you name your dog's swagger.

Well, it's a meaningless word. How about respectability? Let's call that. If someone uses the word swagger in a sports column, it means they don't know anything. Or momentum. Swagger and I just did this morning. Whatever. That's about the dog.

All right. Well, I just want to make sure. Failed shot. Okay. All right, let's move on. Let's finish out our Making the Leap series. We have come to the end of the road on a celebrated. web series by the Around the League team. Great work by all involved, especially Mark.

I mean, I thought your stuff was great. Chris did great stuff. Greg did great stuff. Kevin Patra, who we're going to get on the phone in a moment. But let's start with number two. Do we call him the runner-up making the leap champion? Does that seem fair? That's fair. Okay. He is New Orleans Saints safety. Kenny Vicaro, who obviously added another dimension to that team. last year, and Rob Ryan couldn't get enough of Vaccaro. He was a guy that obviously had the ability to change what they did in the back. And now Greg Rosenthal thinks that Vaccaro makes the leap. And if you're number two in the Making the Leap series,

you've got to be close to edging towards superstar status. And that is proven because last year, number two, was Bruce Carter. Number one was, hey, we had a lot of wins elsewhere on the list. Don't worry. All right, Greg. Go ahead. Kenny Vaccaro is similar to some of the other guys I wrote about with making the leap in that you can't really define what it is that he plays.

And that's the perfect type of guy in 2014. Rob Ryan wants a safety that's like a linebacker that's like a cornerback. And that's what Vaccaro does. He plays tight ends and wide receivers in the slot very well. And usually that type of safety is the Ed Reed type. But Vaccaro's a big hitter. He's very good in run support, and he was better when he was near the line of scrimmage. And so you can move him all around, and he's kind of that piece that Ryan, I think, was looking for to build his defense around.

They love having safeties that are flexible, and now you add Jaris Bird to the mix. And I think that's part of the reason why Vaccaro is set up to be so special. And they talk. Jai Roos, Byers. Of course. Byer. Mark. Well, they, you know, they talked to the soft season about the same.

Saints may be using, which they did a little bit at the end of last year, three safety sets because you'd have your two traditional and then you can move Vicaro around all over the place. He's the one guy on this list when we sat down and ate our sandwiches and decided who would be on this that I argued and a couple of us did. He's already made the leap because last season he was so outstanding. And Ryan said he never gave any rookie as much responsibility. But he did get hurt. So I guess that's one reason you want to see a full season. And he was up and down early in the year. He came on late, I think, and he didn't make a lot of big plays. He's the type of guy that I loved watching for this assignment because he's a hard guy to appreciate just on a down-to-down

basis because you don't see all the different things that he did. I mean, he broke up a pass to win the game in his first NFL game covering Tony Gonzalez. So that got some attention. He made some nice plays against the Panthers on national TV, but a lot of the things he does doesn't really show up in the box score, kind of like a hard-nosed Earl Thomas type of guy. Rob Ryan called Vicaro the best, quote, overall safety in the league, though he admitted that Earl Thomas was the best free safety. Greg, by the end of this season, will we be seeing Kenny Vicaro as a guy that shows up on top 10 defensive players in the whole NFL type list?

That could be pushing it, but I can see him making a Pro Bowl. And you look at the strong safeties that have made it in recent years, Eric Barry, Troy Palomalu last year, Dante Wittner and Laurent Landry made it a couple years ago, and I think Vokero's ready to pass them and to be mentioned with Camp Chancellor and Barry as one of the best safeties in the league at that position. And you could see him and Bird both making the Pro Bowl. Is that the best tandem in the league back there? Well, you've got to give it to Seattle. But after that, I think you have to give it to the champs. I mean, they have Earl Thomas is number one. Cam Chancellor's been great. But what New Orleans is doing is setting up

to be a very similar type of setup where Byrd is kind of playing the Earl Thomas role and Vaccaro is a much more versatile type of chancellor. The team of ATL, which we'll be figuring out as the training camp goes along and entering the regular season, haven't heard anybody mention the Saints yet, have I? Wes?

Online, yeah, we've talked about it on Twitter a little bit. I feel like they're a team that perhaps is a team that could come up as a nominee, we'll see. Well, there used to be a team that was like, all right, they have an exciting offense and we'll deal with the defense, but there's a lot of reasons to be intrigued about both sides right now. All right, so number one, on the Making the Leap list for 2014.

Do we have a drum roll today? Get excited, everybody. Number one, Minnesota Vikings, wide receiver, Cordero, Patterson. Congratulations, buddy. And now we have Cordell on the phone. Let's get him on. No, just kidding. We have the next best thing.

Kevin Patra coming at you That is flattering If I'm the next best thing Well I mean Do you want us to be honest about it? There are a couple You're like the fourth best thing next

I was going to say six or seventh best thing If I'm on the list of next best thing Yeah that's pretty good There's a lot of things out there Kevin you've been talking up Patterson Since January It's like you

We basically did making the leap this year Just so Kevin Patrick could write about Cordero Patterson. Thanks for all the work, Kevin. Yeah, so Kevin, tell us what gets you so excited about this young playmaker. Oh, it's just his explosive ability. I mean, I think he's built well. He's 6-2, and he's shorter than Josh Gordon, but he's got speed to spare.

And he's a lot tougher than I thought coming into the season. And just the way he played down the stretch was phenomenal. Six of his final nine touchdowns, either receiving or running, we're in the final five weeks, kind of his 12 run. which three of those included touchdowns were in the final five weeks. And 24 of his 45 catches were in the final six games. I'm sorry. I mean, he just really, it all came together between part of it could have been Bill Musgrave

finally figuring out, hey, I need to get this guy the ball, which good coaches probably have done that a lot sooner and a part of him figuring out how his place in the offense. Now they have Norv Turner, which we saw last year what he did with Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon with a high. hobby horse collection of quarterbacks. A little bit better situation in Minnesota. What do you see for, how does Turner change what happens with Patterson?

Well, I think you're going to see a lot more of this year. I mean, at the beginning of last year, it was all short intermediate routes. It was two, three yards, screen passes and build Musgraves offense. I think Turner's going to let him cut him loose more. He's going to do what he did a little bit of Josh Gordon, those drag routes, crossing routes, slant routes. When Coral Patterson figured it out near the end of the year, he can get his body between the defender and the ball on his swant route.

And I think next year he'll be able to catch those instead of getting tackled, he'll make those runs sort of like Calvin Johnson is able to do for the line. How much are we concerned about their quarterback situation affecting his ability to make the leap? Well, I think Mark hit it sort of on the head where if Norv Turner could do with Josh Campbell and Brian Hoyer and Brandon Whedon yet last year with Josh Gordon, why wouldn't we wouldn't be expecting to be able to do it with Matt Castle? and Teddy Bridgewater,

which was, in my eyes, a major upgrade in both situations. And Patterson's going to make his plays after the catch, I think. I mean, you've got to get him the ball. Obviously, you want him to do more than just catch bubble screens and all that, but that's what makes him special.

When you watch him run, I'm trying to think of another guy in the league that's like Cordero Patterson. Does anyone have a good comp for him right now? I mean, he's amazing to watch. The only thing, I mean, on kickoff returns, he reminds me of a taller, you know, Devin Hester type where he could shift his hips. And I compared him kind of like a meld of Devon Hester and Julio Jones where he could still get up and get the ball as a receiver. I mean, I don't know that there's a one-to-one comparison you can make because of that effect.

Percy Harvin might be the best one. The guy he's replacing. He's bigger, but I don't know if he runs as tough as Percy Harvin does. Her Harvin is a little more physical. But to me, those two are kind of similar players. And Patterson, he's just one of those guys. He makes other NFL athletes look ordinary. And you just don't see that much at the NFL level

where he's on the field and he's making defenders look like slapies. What do you think about, I mean, their ability, he had 12 carries last year for 158 yards, three touchdowns. He had a 50-yard touchdown run. You have suspect quarterback play potentially, but how about the idea of them finding other ways to get them the ball on offense? I would be interested to see if Norv Turner will try to do that. I'm not sure that you want to put them in the back field too much.

I mean, I think 15 carries over the course of the season wouldn't be a surprise. But, again, he had one or two carries in the last five or six games. He had two before that each game. I don't see it being a huge part of their offense, but I think it could be a change of pace. and I certainly think they'll get more end-and-round because when you get him in space is when he's almost untackable, especially in the second. Once he gets into the secondary, he's too strong for cornerbacks

and safety's missing a lot. Well, this making the Leap Series, it's our baby, Kevin, and we gave the number one spot on the list to you, so that means you are my favorite baby. Well, I would have fought if I didn't get it. I requested it immediately. anyone we would add some battle um has anyone ever called you an evolutionary gary gary meyers has everyone ever called you'll have to listen to the show that will all tie

together when you listen later all right last thing over under over under cordel patterson will start it catches 65 receptions over over i'll go over too i'll go over as well And as will Kevin Patra Yep Here we go, you ready 1,175 yards receiving Greg Rosenthal I'll go over

We've made him number one on the list I think so too Why not, sure Go over Okay I'll go a little bit under But I think he'll be in a thousand yard guy And finally

What about Patrick? Oh I know his because I'm looking at his copy But go ahead, sorry Kevin Yeah, he's set me up to fail on that one. I know I did. I'll go with 1122 yards of season. Ooh, I like that.

And finally, 10 total touchdowns. Greg Rosen. Over. We're going to ride this number one all weekend. He will have 11 and we'll get a penalized called back. He'll finish the season with 10. Oh, Monday.

That was a weird one. I like it. Patrick? Over, over. He had nine last year. He's going way over. All right. And last one, I'll add one more. three special team scores Greg Rosenthal Under, come on Come on, I'll get in

Number one baby Under Come on Let's get sensible How about over under Patra How many times I don't know what people do in the gym

But I do know you worked out Right before we called you So over under Situps or whatnot Oh today was a lot Today was Corday You know Patra Who's got a great body

You know When we were structuring the show, we were made aware that Kevin would be at the gym, the local gym, pumping iron, and just that we had to work around his schedule a little bit. That's just the dedication to, not just as craft as you read the Around the League page, and also when you hear his voice, that he cares about what he's doing, dedication to his own body, which is a temple. And it's a dedication. Do you criticize professional athletes if you can't try to get in shape yourself? It's a dedication that the rest of the Around the League crew does not share with you, Kevin. Actually, no, I was at the gym the other day, and I saw Sessler on the treadmill for like 13 minutes. And look at T-D-A.

T-D-E looks great. Well, I think Patra's put us on high alerts. All right. I'm just basing it on what I see. Okay. All right, Fabio. All right, let's... I'm included.

Okay. Your body's pretty nice, too, Greg. All right, Kevin Patra. That's it. Thank you very much for checking in on this again for the second straight show. number one on the list Cordell Patterson Congrats, buddy

Thanks Kevin Thanks, Thomas I'll see you next week Oh, that's right Kevin Patrick will be out here in Los Angeles and we'll be stopping by For some live

We get to see The results of all that work in the gym That's why you lift all them weights Wait, Kevin's still on the phone Yeah All right, well see you later, Keff Thanks both Bye

That was like one of those awkward face-time goodbyes that we do FaceTime with my daughter and my, you know, but you can't figure out how to end it and you've said goodbye five, ten times. Or if you're in like the office cafeteria and someone sidles up to you and starts talking to you and then you look down and you're on your phone, you look up, he's still there. Not that Kevin is that guy, but it was a similar situation. Well, you made a parallel. You shouldn't go on your phone when people are, when you're chatting. with people.

All right, before we go, let's go through. We just went through 25 to 1 making the leap candidates. Downstairs in the newsroom, the three of us got to talking, as we're wont to do of players that will not make the leap. In fact, we'll progress. We struggled coming up with the name of this segment, taking the plunge, taking a hit, taking a fall, making the anti-leap, which makes no sense. I settled on one that I'm going to run by you guys right now.

and I'm excited about it, listen, and beware, there's a, uh, there's a pause, making the leap to irrelevance. Bang, moving forward. Relevance. A little strong, I guess. Anyway, but you get the point. Dan is always most proud of the most ridiculous ideas. You get the point.

With these are guys we think are going to start going downhill. Patrick, you still on the line? Okay, just checking. Just checking. All right, so let me get it started. I'll start with the first one I had in mind. He is Arizona Cardinals' wide receiver, Larry Fitzgerald. It's been a very special player for many years in this league.

He is entering his age 31 season. I think we've seen some signs of regression in the last couple of years as he's breaking down a little bit. I still think Fitzgerald will be a solid player, but I think he's going to become a second banana this year. I think Michael Floyd, who's, showed us a lot last year, went over 1,000 yards. People are really talking them up this spring as a guy that will make his own leap.

We didn't put him on the list this year because he was on the list last year. And he did make that. And we nailed it. But anyway, so you're going to have Floyd, I think, is going to emerge as the true number one target on that team. Bruce Ariens, known to move his aging wide receivers inside. You're going to see Fitzgerald Moore is like a guy that runs underneath patterns and more an inside receiver. It doesn't mean he won't still be productive, but he won't be Larry Fitzger. Gerald anymore in my opinion.

I will counter you on that because A, you labeled this series a pathway where the player winds up irrelevant. Well, I obviously admitted that that was a little stronger wording. Well, all right, so we agree he won't be irrelevant come December, but I do disagree. We're all going to be irrelevant eventually.

We'll all be gone. This is all temporary. Yeah. That's for sure. What was that? I don't know. It's factual. He says the man wearing another man's purple jacket. I know, is that the first Sessler about another one of our deaths? Are you going to kill me, Mark? Okay, go ahead, buddy.

You are attempting to deflect me from making my point that's going to totally disrupt your prediction. Okay, go ahead. But I just, I look at Fitzgerald. What we've heard about what's happened in the off season is being used all over the place. Maybe kind of like the Reggie Wayne scenario in Indianapolis with a veteran receiver that Bruce Ariens trusted. And I think that there's enough, this is going to be a high-octane passing team. They got a lot of speed. I see what you're saying.

I think that day is coming for him, not this season. I think I disagree with Dan, too, because he is going to be 31 this year. Yes. It's not that old. Well, look at what Andre Johnson just did. He feels older because he's been great since he was 21. But he still had some good years left in his career. comparison to Reggie Wayne was perfect because Fitzgerald isn't as explosive as he once was,

but that doesn't mean he can't rack up some numbers from the inside, like Reggie Way. I don't, okay, so you think he could be a 1,300-yard receiver still at this stage? I think he still could, maybe, yes. Okay, I don't think he's that guy anymore. Who also had a nice rebirth sort of after he wasn't as explosive. Yeah, I still think he could have better numbers this year than he had last year. Okay, and before I move on, I just want to, again, make it clear. I don't think Fitzgerald's done, but I think.

70, 1006 is more at his ceiling at this point. Mark, your turn. Well, yeah, I'm going to go over to Buffalo where I think the mistake here could be, oh, we don't like these guys, or we got something for the. Fred Jackson is one dude that I respect. He is outdone the, he's had doubters this whole career. He keeps, he's proven them wrong over and over. But I think that there's a situation right now where you've got C.J. Spiller. and what we're reading from multiple people over the last couple weeks

is that Bryce Brown projects as a much bigger role than people thought they made a trade for him. Someone's got to lose carries here. And I agree if it's not irrelevance, I think this is the year that Fred Jackson... Who will drop off? Take a hit. It's going to take a big drop off where he's in the last year of his contract.

He turns 34 next year. Not hot on his numbers going into this season. I was a little surprised what we saw from Fred Jackson last year. I thought he was basically. headed towards actual irrelevance. But, yeah, I can see that happening. And I think I'm in the club that thinks C.J. Spiller is going to have a nice bounce-back season.

And then he had Brown, who obviously showed some things in Philly. It makes sense that Fred is the odd man out. Well, he's the AFC's answer to Frank Gore every year people try to bury him. And every year he figures it out. He holds a record unofficially. He has been underdrafted in fantasy leagues for eight straight years. Fred Jackson, never properly drafted. It's fair.

Greg, your turn. I'm going to go big to start. My boy, Cam Newton. I'm a big fan. But we're talking about guys that could take a hit. That surrounding talent, and that defense isn't going to be as dominant, and I don't think that running game is that great. I believe Cam Newton will play better than his numbers,

and that he'll do his best. But with that surrounding talent, I think it's going to be tough for him and the Panthers to repeat, and I think he'll get a lot of blame for it. But we're not talking about a season drop-off, not a career. No, I'm just saying it's going to be tough for Cam Newton with that group around him to do as well this year as he did last year. So taking a drop off, whatever you want to call it. I think he's going to take such a drop.

Carpenter, two seasons. He's out of the football league entirely. Carpenter. Wow. Yes. So he ends his career where Harrison Ford began his just doing the sidings to wood doors. I like that. No, I agree with you.

And I have a Cessler of my own that this. time next year, or let's say this time entering free agency in the draft, the Panthers will be coming off of 7 and 9. Newton will have a year where his weapons fail him and he's frustrated, and his contracts come near an end, and it's going to be a huge story that

the Panthers need to build an offense around him or he's going to leave the team. Book it. I like that. This is when I'm almost emotionally protecting myself, hoping I'm wrong because as a big Cam Newton fan, I'm just really afraid of what's going to happen this season.

I got another one, Antonio Gates. Nice nugget in a Chris Wessling positional rankings piece from a couple of weeks ago. Antonio Gates averaged 6.4 receptions and 87.6 yards through week 5 of last season. We were all talking about, oh, Antonio Gates is back. Then those numbers plummeted to 3.4 and 34.5 yards per game after Keenan Allen took over. Now you have also Ladaris Green, who were very high on and making the lead candidate, Gates getting older, another year slower, and I think Gates will not be completely phased out, but I think by this time next year, there will be no question who's

the number one tight end, and Alan will continue to be Allen. Gates' days as a big-time tight end are over. Well, that's a lot of factors, the age and the place he is in his career makes an argument for that. I would say that Mike McCoy and, you know, last year, Wizz and Hunt helped reignite Gates for a good portion of the season. They ran the ball crazy down the stretch. That hurt all those guys' numbers. But fair point. They've got an error apparent behind him that's going to chip away at his stats.

If we're saying fair or unfair to this, that is fair. I mean, Gates. That's a great one. Home run. All right, Mark, going down. This pains me because when we talk about a player that needs to be free to go do and finish his career the right way, that's Andre Johnson to me. talked about that a few shows ago.

I don't like his situation. He's in Houston. He's still an excellent athlete, but he's getting up there in age, which wouldn't be a concern for me if he was on the Patriots or another team that could put him in a good position. He's got Ryan Fitzpatrick as his quarterback on an offense that I would argue lacks identity right now because it used to be go pound the ball with Arian Foster, but he's coming off a crazy back injury-filled season. I just don't like Andre Johnson's situation in this offense.

I will throw one counter out, and I agree with you on balance, but I want to give you Andre Johnson's numbers last year. Oh, they were insane. Well, that's a good reason to predict he's going to take a hit. What comes up must come down. Regression of the mean, he could drop 500 yards like that. Yeah, we're not predicting he'll be. Are you going to let me recite the numbers at least before you bury my point?

Greg, that would be fair of you to do. Premature burial, it's been done. Hang on. 109 catches, 1,4007 yards, only five touchdowns. My point being that that was with the artist formerly known as Matt Schaub, a little Case Keenum. Who else was in the mix last year? That was your mix.

I mean, so I'm thinking that you can make the argument as long as Andre Johnson shows up. He's going to eat, he's going to get his yards because he's that good. Well, it's a different offense this year, and I just, Well, I hope he eats. That would be a big... He's going to stuff his face. He's going to get really fat, and that will be a problem as well. Well, you're trying to retire Fitzgerald at age 31.

You know what? You know what? I think I spoke with some nuance on the topic, and you know it. Who's up next? I'll go. I'll talk about Wes Welker because he wasn't the same player at the end of last season. He's got a big injury scare. They're batted people around him.

I just don't think... I think he'll be a factor, but I don't think the AFC's leading receiver. or Pro Bowls or even thousand-yard seasons are in the cards room anymore. I agree. I think he's heading down that road and this maybe is the year where slips away. They seem to be planning for that to happen potentially.

So I think if the team is showing, that might be a possibility, yes. Okay, and finally, let's do kind of a lightning round for the last one, so we're a little short on time. I will start to Marcus Ware, Deverebroncos. You got a lot of money on the open market to be the guy that you pair up with Von Miller to bring the pass rush.

I think his play slipped last year maybe not as much as some people thought but maybe he's not the same guy and I don't know I just I don't see him making the impact that people think I see a disappointment there and I don't know if his body is capable of making it through a full season

at this state of his career. I think he will be helped by Von Miller on the other side but it's can he play a full season we don't know I agree. Mark I'm going to go Aryan Foster and again I'm not predicting the guy will be in a grave next season Well, no, we're not saying their demise career-wise,

but I think statistically numbers off of what we would think and where he's going to get drafted fantasy-wise will be a big disappointment. I think about 850 yards misses some games. Wow, we are not bullish on the Texans' offense. And finally, Greg Rosenthal. My final choice is Roddy White's been one of my favorite wide receivers in the league since he came in.

But I don't think Roddy White now is what everyone thinks Roddy White still is. He's more of a possession guy. He's gotten a little worse every year. He was hurt last year. And I think this could be a troublesome year for Mr. White. I agree. All right, that's it for today's edition of the Around the League podcast.

We will be back on Thursday with another show. We'll probably get Chris Wessling on the Horn to talk about AFC teams ahead of training camp. That's right. The AFC Training Camp preview. Get Wes on the Horn, get the scientists, the mailman's input. Hopefully he'll be available. Cincinnati. We're looking forward to that. So until then, this is Dan Hansa, signing off for the sizzler and the boss and TD. Until Thursday.

Thank you.