NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL ATL: Power Rankings Heat

Episode Date: August 15, 2014

A room filled with heroes — Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Chris Wesseling — dive through a boatload f news from Dwayne Bowe to Blake Bortles to Johnny Manziel and Steve Smith taking your applesauce. The guys also debate their biggest disagreements among their preseason predictions. Lot of heat in this one!Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the League podcast is afraid of ice cream headaches and clowns. Welcome to another edition of the Around the League podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal and I am Jewish and I'm joined by a room full of heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling. We missed Dan Hanses. He's out of the mix today and we're still thinking of him, What is happening?

Hey, Greg. Well done. Greg was a little concerned about his opener out of the gate, and he did a pristine job there, I thought. Very well done. You got to mix it up. What's going on this Friday? What? Does it matter if you're Jewish?

No, I don't know. It just popped into my head. Oh, okay. Let's get these topics into the very top of the show here so that anyone listening has no idea what this podcast is about. Well, I'm having trouble focusing because I just had a disturbing incident as I was coming into the studio. So I was at the urinal, and someone was checking their phone at the urinal. I think that's too much. Yeah, it's a little much.

Do you ever see that? It's almost as too much as talking about the urinal on a podcast. I'm just saying, it kind of reminds me of the movie, Her, which is a great movie. It's like you have to be connected at every moment. We need a podcast segment, Greg's indie movies. That's not that indie. Well, I saw that film, too. Oh, well, then you can be the Siskel and Ebert of.

Greg's indie movies. Well, our group is all mixed up today, because not only are we without Dan Hanses, who, of course, is on paternity leave for a little while. Again, congrats to him and Emily. They're heading home today from the hospital, which is a great day. We're also without our producer, TD, but we've got Zachariah in the mix back.

What's going on? Good to have you. It's good to be Jewish, by the way. I'm also Jewish show. I don't know. I understand. I don't understand the whole. peeing while you're checking your phone.

Right. I don't know. Maybe it's not an appropriate podcast topic, but I was disturbed by it. That doesn't bother you? Have you ever seen that at work? I will. I didn't say it didn't bother me. I do agree with your assessment that people are becoming far too attached to technology. I think most of the people listening to this

probably are ignoring family members in the other room while they listen to this. I don't judge other people's bathroom behavior. I have a one-track mind when I get in there. Just look straight at the wall and not at anyone else. That's fair. Well, If you're a regular listener, you'll remember Zach guest produced our podcast a couple times a few weeks ago, did a great job. So he's going to be filling in for TD the next couple of shows while TD is out.

And Zach, why don't we do a little news? All right, let's start in Chicago, where the Bears won the preseason game last night, 20 to 19 over the Jaguars. But we don't really care about the scores because. Dan would be proud of you for slipping. the school. I know. I don't know why I bothered because it was Jordan Palmer leading a comeback. Who cares? The Jaguar starters actually got the lead and the real story was the quarterback position for the Jaguars. Chad Henney came out there. Looked pretty good. Blake Bortles came out there looked even better. 12, 11 for 17, 160 yards. Does Blake Bortles deserve to be starting for

the Jaguars, Mark Sessler? Well, I mean, let's be honest. We, yesterday in the news, room the three of us sitting there pounding out one post after the next and in the middle of this a sandwich bet rose to the surface a proposition a sandwich proposition basically i put the i would said that the portals would be starting by week three which i feel even more strongly about after last night you guys said he would not week three of the regular season of the regular season just to clarify of the real season mark gets two lunches if this happens from each of you if it does not happen we only get one lunch that's true And I'm feeling very comfortable despite Bortals really looking great again because, you know, coach Gus Bradley announced on Friday that Blake Bortals will be the backup in week one.

Chad Hennie is definitely starting the regular season opener, although Bortles will get in the mix and take some first team reps in practice this week. Well, see, that's the point though. At week one, I think no question, Henney's going to be the week one starter. But what they're leaving Jaguars fans with, a fan base that hasn't had a serviceable quarterback in a decade. They haven't had a franchise type of course. That's what they're seeing in little wisps and little moments from Bortles. It is an alien vision to them.

They have fallen in love with it. And you're going to try to sell that fan base that we're going to give you Chad Henney for 16 games. Two weeks will be enough to make the switch. What are we seeing out of Blake Bortles? A little bit of a Big Ben, Carson Palmer hybrid? Yeah. Seems like he has the throwing motion of Carson Palmer, but the mobility and size pocket movement of Big Ben.

That sounds like a fun combination. It is. He can make a lot of throws that Chad Henney cannot make. Someone on Twitter last night actually pointed out how his drop back and his throwing motion was so similar to Palmer, especially his footwork, not something we probably would have noticed. Joe Goodberry And then someone pointed out

Well, Jordan Palmer coached him all offseason Jordan Palmer who's now fighting for a job on the Bears He faced last night Was out of a job in the offseason And he was basically starting a second career As a quarterback tutor And I guess it's worked Good advertisement for Jordan

I just think, you know In the Jaguars number one Their mode and what they were trying to do Out of the Gate with Bordals I think we all admirable It's like you don't want to throw a guy to the fire on a team that might not be ready to compete roster-wise. But, listen, NFL coaches don't have a long enough leash to sit a franchise quarterback

for a year and put Chad Henney in his place. Everyone keeps talking about Farr of Aaron Rogers. This has nothing to do with that ancient situation. This is Chad Henney standing in his way. I get what you're saying, but if the directive is coming from the general manager, the leash doesn't matter. Well, they said they'll know when he's ready, and he has looked as good as possible. possible. I think we're almost underplaying it. You can only get so much from three or four

quarters of preseason action, but Bortles has made more great passes, like I said last time, than the rest of the rookie quarterbacks combined. And he's looked as good as possible. He's making plays on the run. He's very accurate in the pocket. He's been good against pressure in his face. Now you've got to see what he does against good defenses, and when they throw blitzes, that that's all different. But he couldn't look any better. I would have. was not particularly excited about the Blake Bortle's era, and now I am. It's like you go, let's say you go 10 years without a solid girlfriend. I'm working on that.

Okay, well, and then you stop. That's not true at all. And then someone comes into your life, right? Wesleyan always acts, by the way, that, like, he struggles to get girls and that you always have a girlfriend. So let's, let's back it off a little bit. Maybe you're not right now, but you know what I'm saying. All right.

But let's say you find that you know, this is the one. What do you know? You know what? No, I'm going to go back and I'm going to have you. you go, I'm going to have you go back to your apartment for the next year. We'll see how it goes. I'll continue to date low-level, nonsensical women. The Jaguars found, they found it.

Their dream girl. And I think, and no, I'm not killing the team. I think that Caldwell is smart enough, and so is Gus Bradley. We're going to have to change the plan we came up with months ago. We found our quarterback. I thought it was interesting, Jeff, NFL media is Jeff Darlington, talked to David Caldwell in the offseason about this point. plan to redshirt border portals and he said what what if you see 83 damn merino then what's a high

bar and call was call well's answer was well it seems like we're getting pretty close to 83 marino here well as far as what you can show into what you could possibly show in two three season games easy there and i think that's why they're giving them first team reps in practice this week that that's a change and i'm just excited because the jaguars are going to be watchable again i mean their defense is fun to watch. Yeah, they're interesting. And once Bortals is starting, I'm going to want to see that. I liked Byron Leftwich early in his career, so I did too.

I was a huge Leftwich fan. I can't say that Bortles is the most exciting or the first time we've ever been excited about a Jaguars card, but it's the first time since then, since early Leftwich. Get excited. One guy that concerns me a little bit after I spent many hours singing his praises in the offseason is Toby Gearhart because he looks to me a little bit like a one-trick pony that is not, they're going to have to have other things going on in the running game. Maybe all of the clips that you watch in the offseason mean more than his six carries in a preseason game

when three of them came on pitches outside that the bear's defense just swarmed immediately. I guess that's my concern a little bit is that he's not going to be able to do anything like that for you. They just have to find someone else that gives them those kind of outside runs. He's not an outside runner. He's not, no. And you have to also, I think, point out that he's coming off a hip injury. which probably, we saw what a hip injury did to Ray Rice's lateral movement last year. Well, that's not a good sign. That's very concerning.

Why? I mean, give him a week or two to get back into the shape. Well, it's not as serious as a hip injury this time around. Right. Right. So. Did Art Robinson looks like a running back? He looks good. He looks bigger to me.

They gave him the outside runs that Gerhardt wasn't good at. I don't know if he's going to be great, but just the fact that you're a college quarterback that is, I think, now going to establish a career as a, legitimate NFL running back that's on some rosters for a few years like he looks like a real player it's kind of exciting any other big thoughts from the bears side any big takeaways uh their run defense looks

improved but how could it not be the past defense gave up 250 yards in the first half to the jaguars who were without two of their top three receivers did jimmy closs in excitement dip back down a little bit I thought he still looks okay he looked decent he looked adequate I mean this

this closson Palmer battle. It's tearing up the country. I mean, it's a little divisive, though. I mean, we've got half the country on one side, half on the others, families aren't talking to each other. But it's good for the nation because often, you know, what we find is we come out of these conflicts having grown. Yes. Moving on to other news, other than last night's game, the big story today in the newsroom, Dwayne Bo. A couple stories, actually. We'll start with a big one, which is that he's suspended for the first game of the season. related to a marijuana arrest last year.

And we also had a report before that that his finger is injured. And Andy Reid wasn't too happy about that and saying that basically Bo hasn't been able to catch passes very well and his fingers all messed up. And so these are a couple things that are bad with Dwayne Bo. This is a receiver group that already was struggling. Yeah, I mean, Dwayne Bo was not a number one receiver last year. most people would not consider Donnie Avery a good number two,

and their number three is either Junior Hemingway, Mark's favorite, or undrafted Albert Wilson out of Georgia State. Oh, my gosh. What about A.J. Jenkins, former first-round pick there. I don't think anybody considers him a viable. Maybe it's time to dial up the concept of a 90-catch season for Travis Kelsey. Ooh. I like that.

I like that you said some people wouldn't consider Donie Avery. a good number two receiver. I mean, let's get up. Let's get on with it, Wesleyan. He's terrible number two receiver. And you think that. You don't need to say some people. I would rather not have him as my number two,

but I thought there were times last year when he outplayed bow. Okay. And by the way, it's not Donnie Avery's fault that he's been thrust into the number two job. This is a front office that did zero to improve this position group. You know, they all see offseason long acted, like we're content with what we have at wide receiver. what you have is a Dwayne Bo that looks, you know,

maybe he had a couple up and down moments of camp. People said there have been good stuff from him, but in general a guy that's been untracked since he signed that contract. Why do you draft nobody in the deepest receiver class we've seen in years? Why do you add nothing for Alex Smith to work with? Because they have a secret weapon named Albert Wilson. You love Albert Wilson. He was one of the most highly sought after undrafted free agents.

That's how they're going to roll. Georgia State's defensive coordinator, Jesse Minter, whom I met on Tybee Island, really good guy, told me the guy was a playmaker, and I trust Jesse Minter. Well, I trust that, too. I guess my concern about Kansas City's passing game was ill-placed. Well, Alex Smith, I think, should share it. They're going to be fine. Albert Wilson's going to solve it all.

Alex Smith should sign that contract. If I'm an Alex Smith agent and I'm looking at this mess, just take the money. because you're going out there week one against the Titans, you know, not the greatest defense ever, but some good players in the secondary. Reading what we have. There's no, Bo, I don't know. Reading what we have about this story,

don't you think it's more Alex Smith being stubborn and digging in his heels than the agent? Like, Alex Smith, from what we've heard, truly believes he's a franchise quarterback and wants to be compensated accordingly. I think it's all agents when it comes to these things. And if he's saying that, it's coming more from the agents into his mouth.

You know what I mean? That's what they're paid to do. If Alex Smith is negotiating the contract, that's a problem. Don't you think? Well, he gets to say yes or no. Like, if the agent comes to him and say, here's what the chiefs are offering, Smith gets to say,

no, I don't like that. Well, look, he has an agent that's basically signed the biggest quarterback deals in NFL history, you know, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer. That's, they're not looking for that type of thing, but this is an agent that's not going to do these, you know, year by year things. They don't like that idea.

And to me, it's probably the agent selling Smith on that idea. But couldn't you see a scenario where the Chiefs offense stinks? And then that ruins his value? Here's the scenario. Jamal Charles gets injured. Right. Then they're one of the worst offenses in the NFL. That's right, from top to bottom.

Because, hey, let's remember the offensive line, they let some people go. I don't know. It was an offseason where they said, we're going to take a very long nap. We'll wake up in early July and let's, you know, rejoice. then and see what happens. Well, you know what? You missed a few things along the way, including adding talent to an offense that was sort of a mirage. And this news isn't just bad for the Chiefs in week one. It's bad for Dwayne Boe long term because he now loses the guaranteed money in his contract. And there might even be someone in the Kansas City Chief's front office that's happy

about the suspension. Because someone? You think everyone? I think multiple people. I think it's great for the team. I think there might have been a high five or two exchanged in the hallway when they found out that 10.75 million next year is not guaranteed. And the guy that we paid as a top five receiver and played like a top 40 tight end is no longer a competitive disadvantage if they don't want him to be. He'll be off the team in seven months. He probably will be. I don't expect Dwayne Bo to be with the Chiefs next season.

And the only counter to that is he's still the best. wide receiver on the team. That's why he's there in the first place, right? Getting all this money. You still have to replace him. Do you know where Cleveland Brown's general manager, Ray Farmer, came from? I'm seeing all this on Twitter. I know we came from Kansas City, and they have a lot of cap room, and there's people talking about the fact that there's a match here. That Cleveland needs a wide receiver, one that's broken his finger 15 times and has a one game suspension for marijuana. Yeah. Because they don't have those issues already. Yeah, Cleveland, they have a big need for Potsman. smoking whiteouts.

But you are right. That have had, you know, work ethic questions. Wesleyan is correct that the link is there. Hey, let's see if Devon Best wants to come back this year. But often when we see, when we see player transactions that drive us nuts, it's because there is that in-house connection where you're like, why did they go get that player? Who believes in them there?

Oh, wait, there is someone that believes in them. Moving on to Baltimore, where Steve Smith, you know, maybe he's lost a step or two over the years, but he has not lost anything in the mouth department. Still the best quote in the NFL. And there's really no news to hook this on. We just like the best trash talker since Muhammad Ali. Wow. Wait a minute. That is a bold statement. And as proof, we'll read what he says today when he was asked why he feels like he's a perfect fit in Baltimore. And you know what? He really is a perfect fit as a raven. And he said to CSN Baltimore, when I look in the defensive meeting room, and I see play like a Raven in Baltimore Ravens, we build bullies.

That's what I'm talking about. When I think of a Baltimore Raven, what I think of is you go in there, we take your lunchbox, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, we take your spork, and we break it, and we leave you with an empty lunch. That's the Baltimore Raven way. That's the bully way, and that's football. I'm fired up. I want to put up some pants and play.

I'm glad you're fired up. And as a former Browns fan who watched the Ravens yanked out of Cleveland, and I'm glad to see that their mantra is we build bullies after what the league was doused with last year. How about the organization gets in step with where the league is? Lighten up, Francis. I'm kidding at all. I couldn't care less. I mean, I think good for him.

It's a good move for Steve Smith. We were saying downstairs, I don't know if there's a better landing spot for him this season. because A, it's not last year's offense, it's Kubiak's offense. They'll find a way for him to produce. I've only heard good things about him coming out of training camp that he looks great. Yeah, people saying that Smith has made a lot of vertical plays beating cornerbacks deep when they had joint practices against the 49ers, when he's going against the Ravens corners. Are we sure he couldn't beat cornerbacks deep last year?

Because I never saw him get a chance to run vertical routes anymore last year. They didn't try. And now when they do, he's just going to take your juice box. And according to Wesley, he looks... And break your spork. He looks taller now, you've told us. He does. I mean, I don't know if that's scientific, but he looks taller.

I mean, that is... He's got it going on. That's an all-time quote. It reminds me a lot of there will be blood when he talks about, you know, taking your milkshake. You know what I'm saying? Maybe that was a little bit of a inspiration. Take your apples sauce. We're going to leave you with an empty lunchbox.

That, to me, is going to be the title of the NFL Films video about the Ravens at the end of the year. Like, we take your spork. we break it. Do they still do those? Yeah. I used to order those like through the mail like a VCR tape every year religiously. I would order my Cleveland Brown's year in review. I think they show it.

30 minute video. On like ESPN 7 at midnight in the middle of May, you'll just see a random NFL films presents, you know, the 2013 Ravens. What a letdown or whatever it's called. That's it. Let's move on to another quarterback battle. Vikings will start Matt Castle in the second preseason game, no surprise. They're going to play them.

The whole first half is our report from NFL media. There's a chance. There's a good chance. The idea will be to play Teddy Bridgewater with the backup. So whether it's the first half or the second half, when the backups come in, that's when Teddy Bridgewater comes in. And he had a quote this week saying that he's overthinking things. Are we concerned about the Teddy Bridgewater era?

Well, I think it's just not ready now. think this means he won't be good in the future. It seems like his head, he's swimming a little bit. And I thought the Mike Zimmer quote to USA Today was pretty telling. I love Teddy Bridgewater, Zimmer said. I love him. I think he's going to be tremendous. And I don't know when. And they don't need to rush the guy. I mean, they actually have a better bridge quarterback, if that's the term we want to use, then Jacksonville, doesn't? Well, I mean, Cleveland's, we don't I would say we don't know what Brian Hoyer is, but we know he's not an all-star. He's a guy that has started four more games in his career than Mansell. But Castle has started some games.

Castle's been in a couple of different systems. I mean, he's been around the block. That's not a guy of a problem rolling out for eight games. And then maybe if the house burns down, you throw Bridgewater in then. He could use a little more time. It's interesting because a week ago, this competition, we thought Bridgewater might be starting week one. Now it's over. It feels all but over. I think something crazy would have to happen this weekend for Castle not to be named the starter early next week. Bridgewater would have to play like Blake Bortles. Or Matt Castle would have to play like Jordan Palmer.

And part of it is because the coaching, you got Norv Turner every week with a laundry list of quotes saying that Teddy Bridgewater just couldn't be more polished, he couldn't be more advanced. And then they get on the field and it's like these quotes don't really mean anything. Well, you know, Matt Castle, by the way, only played six started six games last year. In one of those games, the team scored 40 points. In another one of those games, they were down 17 to 3 and beat the Bears on a big comeback.

He did not play that poorly last year. Wesleyan always likes to trash Matt Castle. Why did they draft the first round quarterback? It's not great. There you go. He's better than five or six starters out there. No, you say that about 12 different guys. All right.

Including Tavarge Jackson. How many guys could be better than five or six? guys out there. Tavares Jackson. Especially when one of them isn't Chad Hennie anymore. You're not going to have that guy to kick around because he's going to be a number two. It was criminal how low you ranked T. Jack in the back of quarterback.

I've seen Tavares Jackson as a starter for many games, and I don't need to see that ever again. You might not ever see that again. You've had enough of that dish. Yes. We also aren't going to see Charles Sims, the third round draft pick of the Bucks, out 12 to 14 weeks after surgery on his right ankle. They'll do the surgery today on Friday, and it's a big loss for them in their backfield.

They were hoping that Sims was at a little pop. Their running back's coach compared him to Matt Forte. He wasn't the only one to make that comparison. He looked like he was going to be the passing down guy to compliment Doug Martin. So I think they had significant plans for him. Yeah, you know, our friend, Daniel Jeremiah was at Buck's camp. and he over and over just emphasized that Sims has had a really nice camp and that the coach has trusted him.

That's, you know, if you find out that running backs are going to get a role early on, they have to see you as a complete back. They can do a lot of different things, and I think they viewed him that way. I liked Mike James last year, but it was in spot work, but he came in, he had like a 100-plus yard game and looked very good in one start. And don't forget, little track star Jeff Demps. Oh, my gosh. All right, but listen, you know.

Is he going to make the team? Probably not, but that guy has found a way to, how many people could hang around in the NFL for three plus years without doing a thing. He's got a good chance to make the team. This helps. It does help. I mean, they've got Bobby Rainey and Doug Martin. Bobby Rainey is, was a mid-season signing guy last year that played for like four teams. The Browns dumped him to go with Willis McGahey and Edwin Baker. After the Ravens dumped him. Jeff Dems has had the highest posts to lack of production ratio since any player since the last couple of years.

Tim Tebow, I was going to say. I'd put Whedon up there. Actually, you know who would be another candidate for this category? Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson? No. They had plenty of production. I'm talking about podcast favorite Colt Lairla. Oh.

Oh. Look at the transition. That was solid. Segway. You didn't think we were going to get Colerrilla back in the show, but it's Dan Hanses' favorite player, and we just wanted to give him a little present. Hey, Dan, Colt is injured. Tor is MCL.

and PCL. I know you don't want to be celebrating injuries, but, you know, this is, we got we got to at least close the book on the Colt-Layrilla story. I would imagine they would put him on the season-ending I-R. That's a pretty serious injury, and they go seven-deep at tight end. I was wondering if

he was going to make the roster anyway. But the reason why people are so enamored with this guy, I saw a screen grab of the play in which he got injured, and he was hurtling two defenders with his legs sprawled out, spread eagle style almost. and he was about four feet up in the air.

It was just a really athletic play. Well, and I know there was, he was more mocked almost for some of the stuff that was written about him where they talked about him having the athletic, you know, prowess of a Jimmy Graham, of a Rob Gunkowski, and we'll have to wait to see if he, it's almost probably if he gets stashed away for a year, it might actually benefit him because I think you're right.

That is such a deep, tight end group. After we thought it wouldn't be, you know, like going into the off season, that maybe this is a way to stick with the team. Yeah, I agree. But I agree. I don't think it'll be bad for him.

This way he can get the medical treatment with the team throughout the season instead of just being cut and, you know, thrown to the wind. So we'll talk about Colt probably in 2015, so look forward to that. Finally, let's wrap up the news with Brian Hoyer starting the second preseason game for the Cleveland Browns over Johnny Mansell. Were you surprised when you found this out, Mark? Well, I thought it was surprising because our network. had learned from a pretty good source that it was going to be the other way around,

the Mansell will get the start. Now, who knows, maybe Petten bumped at that news. Well, way to just throw people under the bus there, Mark. What? Our network had this. I mean, we put it in our posts, and that's, you know, these things change, right? These things change. And, I mean, maybe it has to do with something that is a committee they're making these decisions.

I don't think it matters that much. They talked about, Ian suggested they may go two series for two series for two series. to get, you know, both of them facing number one defenses. Who cares who's out there for the first five minutes versus if they switch someone in after? I think this is going to figure itself out. I've never seen a statement released by a team not only announcing the preseason starter,

but breaking down the snap counts. They wanted to make sure everyone knew Johnny Mansell and Brian Hoyer were going to have equal snap counts. And I guess that just, that's Johnny Mansell in a nutshell. They felt, I don't think that was necessary, but they felt like it was necessary to release a statement saying that. This is a team that has gone for, what, 20 years being in the darkness, no media cares what they do, and suddenly they're being barrage for information, and they're learning how to do it. I think Petten, give him some credit, I think he's handled the entire summer pretty well.

I totally agree, but Chris Wesleying, when you heard this news and for any new listeners to the show, Chris Wessling has put up really his manhood and his health and his safety for Johnny Mansell starting in week one. Chris Wesseling will eat his softball pants if Brian Hoyer is the week one starter at the Cleveland Browns. Will Chris Wessling eat his softball pants? Starting to think the answer is yes. You're not starting to. You were on record as saying that it would be yes. I don't like this news, but like Mark said it,

probably doesn't mean a whole lot. And like I've said all along, it really comes down to how they play on the field. If Mansell can't outplay Brian Hoyer in the preseason, then I deserve to eat myself. I mean, they talked about naming a starter next Tuesday. I think this Redskins game that Mansell needs to come in and do some stuff that, you know, turns bar room of watchers absolutely into water. They have to, he's got to, he's got to, I don't know what he's got to, he's got to come in and impress and be who they thought.

thought he could be. He needs to be, like, have godlike powers or something, turn people into liquids? I think the thing about Mansell that has people, why is the entire nation fascinated with the guy? It's because of that strange playmaking and ability and that unusual talent. That's why Brian Hoyer is, all he is to do is, Mansell just has to do what he can do in Hoyer's number two. Hashtag chaotic rivers.

There you go. If I was, you, Chris, my big concern now is that I think the top. is going to Hoyer. And I didn't know that going into camp. I thought Mansell would start week one. I just thought you were taking a little bigger risk than you thought. And I thought that a tie would have gone to Manzell. And right now it seems like the tie is going to go to Hoyer,

and right now they're essentially tied. Would you disagree with any of that? There's no ties. One's going to outplay the other. We're waiting for it. It hasn't happened in practice. Didn't happen in the first preseason game. it's basically all on Monday night.

Nationally televised. Johnny likes to play to the limelight. He likes to play to the limelight. And I think Shanahan, their offensive coordinator, I think Shanahan wants, I think they built an offense for Mansell. That's not because they thought, oh, maybe he'll play in late November.

The X factor here might be, oh, they're going into Pittsburgh week one. That is a rough assignment for rookie quarterbacks. Dick LeBoe kills rookie quarterbacks. He has his whole career. They know that. That's why maybe Hoyer wins if there's a so-called, all tie. Well, you also have to

worry a little bit, I think, as a Browns fan, that there is a disagreement over who should start. That, you know, that's how sometimes things get out there and there are different camps of who wants who, and that has to be a little bit of a concern in Cleveland. And that's why they probably do want to

announce the starter after this game, right? Yeah, I mean, but if a quarter, if Mansell ends up starting in wins games, all these disagreements, all the stuff that melts away, right now they don't have someone playing like Blake Bortals. That's when suddenly all this stuff starts to clear up. That's what they don't have yet. Yeah, I said on Twitter last night. Imagine if Johnny Mansell was playing as well as Blake

Bortles, like NFL Network would cancel all programming for the rest of the month. It would just be the Manzell Network. We would have to hurry and rush out a new channel, the Manzell chain. We've seen a lot more of Bortles than Manzell. We really didn't see much of Manzell last game. That's totally fair. And I mean, I'm excited. Look, I'm rooting for you to not eat the pants. I want to see Johnny Manzell start week one. No offense. Who doesn't want, who wants to see Hoyer start week one? Not as fun. 90% of the

national media. That seems to be true. And the Cleveland media wants Hoyer. Why is that? I mean, not to go on about it, but you have to, this isn't New England that's coming off endless winning. This is Cleveland that hasn't won a championship

in any sports in 64. Brian Hoyer is a local kid who plays playing the role of the veteran who's working his ass off. And there's no, it's not hard to see why the locality is warming up to that. It's myopic, though. That's fair. But it's not, but we'd be myopic to not understand why Cleveland wouldn't latch on to a local

boy that came up and did a nice job in general last season compared to the other junk they had to position. He should be rewarded with a backup job, which he hasn't really had throughout his career. And he probably will be. I mean, he hasn't had backup job. But the question is, why does Cleveland like a local, boy that did well in high school there and has the values they admire. I understand why they like him. I understand why they

adore him. I just think you should be happy that he's a backup. It's something that he hasn't had the last few years. That's a good rule for him. And that's a good role for Chad Henney when the Jaguars fan base is going to have to be told a bitter pill to swallow. We're going to sit this young Big Ben for 16 games.

Keep buying tickets. Keep sitting in our pool. I don't think so. Well sit. Finishing the news on a strong note. With Dan not here, by the way, I think we just set a record for the longest news segment, never. That was bound to happen. It was fun. It was fun. Who doesn't like the news?

There are no boundaries. We still got time. And I should have mentioned this at the top, but we're going to unveil a new segment here, probably a one-time segment. We'll do it again next year. The teams we disagree on the most, the Lightning Rod teams. Hashtag Lightning Rod. Of the NFL. And as part of our season preview, which will be starting Monday on the Around the League page,

NFL.com slash ATL, we're going to be previewing division by division. And along with that, we'll say where they're going to finish in their division, and then our overall around the league prediction in terms of their rank, whether we see the 49. Whatever you want to call it, power rankings, whether the 49ers, even if they're in second place, whether they're a top five team in the NFL. And so we all submitted our rankings this week, and I thought it'd be fun to take a look at them and see where we disagreed the most. This is the kind of master puppeteer that Greg is.

He has not allowed Mark and I to see the results. Mark and I don't even know which teams we disagree on. I don't even remember my own power rankings. I like to set up a situation where you guys just come into natural. It's like a chem lab, and Greg is adding magnesium. All right, let's get this one started then with one of the teams you disagreed on the most, and that is the subject of Hard Knocks, the Atlanta Falcons. Chris Wessling likes a bounceback for Atlanta, 15th overall in his power rankings,

basically sees them as a middle-of-the-packed team. Mark foresees disaster. 27th for Atlanta. That is harsh, Mark. Why the Falcons hate? To start, they play in a dome, which automatically is a negative 7 for my power rankings. That's fair. I'll tell you what.

I guess, you know, from what little I've gleamed of hard knocks, which I've not been able to see in full, because I don't have the deluxe cable package like some people. But all this, we're going to get tougher. We're going to get tougher. It's like, you have to keep telling football players that I'm not sure I buy it. there's no question that the Matt Ryan Julio Jones scenario has a chance to be you know outrageous in the NFC I think it could lead the league in receiving yards it wouldn't shock me but Atlanta doesn't have much in the run game that excites me I don't

like their offensive line a whole lot they don't have anything else it's going to be doing three wide receiver sets all year long I don't know in general the overall team I think this is it for Mike Smith wow who doesn't He doesn't run three-wide receiver sets all year long. They don't, I think taking any sort of a playmaking tight end out of that offense is a concern for me. There's just, you know, the Falcons overall to me, I see another losing season. Five, six wins, tops. Right.

I mean, you're putting them in that category. Yeah. I don't have a problem with it. These are Sessler's worst six teams in the league. Falcons, Titans, Bills, Cowboys, Raiders, and Texans. So that's the company that the Falcons are the only one with a, oh, the Cowboys and the Falcons are the only one. with real quarterbacks who you don't see having success. Well, so why do you disagree so much then?

You see Atlanta as more of a middle-of-the-pack team. Because if they had Julio Jones last year, they would have been middle-of-the-pack. I mean, forget all the rest of the injuries they had. If they had only Julio Jones, they would have been middle-of-the-pack last year. They have him back. Roddy White's healthy and looks phenomenal from everything we've heard out of their camp. I think their offense will be good. I think they improved both sides of the line more than any team in the NFL this off-season.

And I totally buy that they're a much, much tougher team. They have a backbone, which they've needed for half a decade now. A lot of times, though, when you change lines that dramatically, it looks good on paper, especially the offensive line. It doesn't really work out that well. Okay. A lot of times they do. I'm confident that they have rebuilt this one in a good way.

Well, I actually am much closer to you, Chris. I see them as a middle of the pack team because of Matt Ryan. because any team that I know their offense is going to be good, and I tend to think their offense is going to be good, I'll just give them the benefit of the doubt because defense is a lot more unpredictable, and they look terrible on paper on defense, but you see a lot more terrible defensive teams on paper get a little lucky.

You know what I mean? And just be middle of the pack at least, or be the 20th defense in the league. I think Mike Smith will be a coordinator for the Tampa Bay organization next year. Mark, Mike Smith, poor guy. Well? All right, moving over to the AFC. Let's pick another team where we disagree.

Mark, you have the Ravens as a middle of the pack team. Chris really likes him. Number eight in his rankings. That really surprised me. I have the Steelers and Ravens just about neck and neck as the team in the AFC right behind the Patriots and the Broncos. And the Ravens, I feel like their defense was pretty good last year. Top 10 defense.

they probably got just a little bit better this year there, and they got a lot better on offense. I expect them and the Redskins to have the most improved offenses in the league. I really liked what I saw from them in the preseason opener. I think Flacco is an excellent fit for Kubiak's boot action scheme, and I think the running backs are better fits for that scheme, too. I had them at 15, and the AFC North, for many, many years, which was dominated by Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

and, you know, Cincinnati, obviously, a much tougher out in the last three seasons. But their records were often inflated by playing a Cleveland team that sat down. They swept them over and over. And Cincinnati often has had trouble in its own division. Andy Dalton has a lower completion percentage against the AFC North than Brandon Wheaton did. So I think that's going to change a little bit this year. And Baltimore is going to be tested by its own division a little bit more than it was last season and in the past. I had them at 15th.

That could still be an 8-N-8. record. Sure. So I don't see, I still, I see what Chris sees. I don't think it's going to go as smoothly as he predicts. But 15th is middle of the pack and that's where I have the Ravens. I mean, eighth is, is aggressive. You not only have them fourth in the conference and head of teams like the Colts and Chargers,

Bengals, who are pretty talented. But, you know, well ahead of some talented NFC teams like the cards, the bears, lions, eagles. The Ravens kind of remind me of the Falcons discussion we just have. Chris, that you're probably putting some faith in the organizational DNA, essentially, that we've seen this team be so consistent for so long. No, that we, do we just have faith, for instance, in Mike Smith and Thomas Dimitrov and Matt Ryan and Atlanta, or faith in John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco and Ozzie Newsman, Baltimore,

that this is the type of organization that's going to be good year after year, and that last year was an anomaly. That's part of it. That's part of it. But when you compare them to teams like the Cardinals, I don't think the Cardinals are more talented. than the Ravens. I think the Ravens are a better team top to bottom than the Cardinals.

I would disagree with that. Although, do you think that Ravens just wildly underachieve last year? Why do you think? I think it's pretty easy to pinpoint where their season went wrong. It starts on the offensive line. It goes to the running game and it extends to Flacco because by the end of the season,

Flacco had no one to throw to, no offensive line to block for him, and no running game to take the pressure off. They always want to be a running team. And I feel like they fixed all of that this offseason. Well, you see the, the division really going back to what it was a few years ago. Because you have the Steelers and Ravens at the top, not only at the top of the division, but top eight teams in the NFL, but you have the Cleveland Browns down at number 27.

Poor Mark Sessler, if he's sitting here watching the 27th best team week after week, could be an ornery Sessler. A lot of Monday mornings. There is reasons for, I had Cleveland at 14. That's a huge gap, 27 to 14. It's a huge gap, but I, and people say, oh, it's Mansell. I think their offense is going to struggle. But their defense, if we want to look at talk about changes that have been made,

additions over the last few years, they've built what is a defense that doesn't have a hole. There isn't a position group that you say, wow, they are really, really low. Barring injuries, Cleveland's going to be in football games. They were in a bunch last year that went the wrong way, and the season went south. They were four and four at one point. again 14 is not 12 and 4 it's a middle of the pack that's where I have them be their best season in a long time it would be but it wouldn't it doesn't need to be a great season 27 is aggressive you have to you have to view both sides of the ball as sort of a travesty to go 27th in the league 27 isn't aggressive at all that's where I would think most people have the Browns because that's what they've been and at the bottom of list this is how the NFL works that's where you put your teams that don't have quarterbacks they don't have a quarterback well we don't know that they don't have a quarterback well we don't know that they don't have a quarterback well we don't know that they don't have a quarterbacks You have no hope that Manzell is going to be good this year, or at least... If they don't even know if he's the answer right now, how can I put him...

How can I put the Browns high up if they don't know if they have a quarterback? Well, historically, I can't argue with what you're saying at all, Chris, but I think... But you're far less optimistic on Manzell now than you were three or four months ago. You thought he would be a game changer. I still think if they let him play, he will. But, yeah, I mean, he... I need to see him in Monday night's game, but... You know what?

I think that it'll be somewhere between where Chris and I pick. That's probably where it will be, which is not impressive. I'm much closer to Mark on this, that I see the division all jumbled up. I think the Browns are competitive each and every week with that defense. And Mike Petten and the pieces that they added, that could be a top five defense. It wouldn't surprise me that much if the AFC North has all four teams in the mix with three weeks to go in the season. And maybe the Browns only win seven games or eight games. but on paper, I know it's easy to say on paper,

there aren't many defenses better than that. I think they're a lot more talented. On paper, there aren't many offenses worse than that. That's fair. But I think that evens out. And I think Mike Patton is a good enough defensive coach to make them truth. But quarterback means more than defense. I like Kyle Shanahan as a coordinator, too.

In general, everywhere he's been, he's created yards. And the Hoyer argument doesn't make sense to me, Because even if he does start week one, it's like, it's just a matter of time. It's not a big difference in the scheme of things between week three and week one. It's not a Hoyer argument. It's a quarterback argument. Even if Mansell's a pretty good rookie, rookie quarterbacks don't generally win games in the NFL. They might keep you in them, but they don't generally win them.

One X factor we haven't brought up, though, because the NFL is deciding that it's not going to rule on this until about 20, 27, that we don't know what's up with Josh Gordon. I mean, some have called it an all-or-nothing argument where he's either out for the year, which I think that that cripples their offense, no argument there. But if he's back, you've got him and Jordan Cameron, you've got a good offensive line, they've redone the backfield, and you've got Andrew Hawkins and Miles Austin. It's not a terrible offense on paper at that point if Gordon is somehow cleared. It's a lot of ifs. It is a lot of ifs, but if we're assuming Gordon's gone for the year, he could be back midway through.

That's true. I think that the best they could hope for is that it'll be reduced and he maybe misses half the season. It's crazy that we still don't know about Josh Gordon and Alden Smith. That surprises me because their situation seemingly were over in a week or two. I'm not sure what the holdup is, but you would figure we're going to find out in the next week. I would think before cut down day. So we disagreed on the Browns. I'm much closer to Mark.

I could see them being very frisky. We all kind of love the Steelers. These are some of the teams, by the way, we agreed on. We all kind of love the Steelers. The Chargers got a lot of love. The Cardinals, for the most part, got a lot of love. But let's talk about another team in the NFC that we disagree on. And to talk about that team, let's get on their biggest fan, Kevin Patra.

Zach, can we call up Mr. Patra? Yep, just give me his number. All right, we've got Kevin Patra on. the line. He doesn't even know why we have him. We're just going to ambush him with the news that the Detroit Lions were one of the teams we disagreed on the most in our power ranking, predictions, whatever. Kevin, you actually were in the middle of the pack of us, but I wanted to bring you in for this discussion because Chris Wessling was surprisingly high on the Detroit Lions, had him number 11 overall, fifth in the NFC, so a playoff team, whereas Mark Sessler had him pretty low,

19th overall, 11th in the NFC. Out of those two, Patra, which do you think would be more right? What should I go with my heart or my head? Well, combine them. Go with what's right. I had 15th. That's pretty much where I ended up right in the middle. I think there's a lot of question marks.

We still haven't seen whether his defense can step up last year and in that division. and you can't play defense. I mean, they're going to be in shootouts, and we know Matthew Stafford has one shootouts. Is there a chance that against good teams? Is there a chance that coaching staff is awful? Like, really awful. Two first-time coordinators,

Jim Caldwell, who directed the worst offensive performance in Baltimore Ravens history last year. Is there like any chance it just totally falls apart? I'm so confused about this team. I'm serious. I would be more concerned about the coordinator's lack of experience, because I don't think Caldwell is going to be calling many of the shots. I mean, they brought Lombardians to bring in the New Orleans system.

So unless it completely falls apart in the beginning, which, you know, the one series we saw them in the first season, we didn't. They looked up. They looked pretty good. Golden paid at a good route. They looked all right. Unless it falls apart, I don't think Caldwell's going to have much stay in it, so it's pretty much going to be on the two coordinators. And the defensive line is still pretty much going to play the exact same way they did last year. And if they don't improve, I don't see much on the back. Wes, why are you so high on them? brought this up on a recent podcast.

I remember early last year how high several of us were on their offense because defenses could not stop Reggie Bush and Calvin Johnson when they're on the same field together. Bush got injured. Some other things happened. They lost some receivers. And the offense kind of went down a wormhole. But now you bring in Golden Tate, who I think any of our longtime listeners,

no, I'm very high on. And I think he's a very good number two. You bring in Eric Ebron, who was compared to Vernon, Davis is for his receiving abilities. You can't double team or triple team Calvin Johnson anymore. You can't double team Reggie Bush out of the backfield. You've got Joyke Bell.

You've got Theo Riddick. I think you have a lot more weapons this year. And if it means we don't see Chris Durham and Ryan Broils and Kevin Ogletree, I think you have one of the best offenses in the NFL. You can't really double team too many guys on this. I mean, there are going to be some great matchup for the lion this year.

I have them at, go ahead, Kevin. No, well, I was going to say, I think Golden Tate is the key of all of that. I think Ebron's going to come wrong along fully yet. We haven't heard great things about his play so far, so I think he's going to be one of those guys. If he makes a jump, it's going to be in the second half this season, where we've seen them blow up in the last couple years. I think some of that on Ebron,

Beat Riders overrate dropped passes because that's really, they don't understand all the nuances of football, so it becomes obvious when a player drops a pass that that's a mistake. I don't care if Ebrons dropping passes. In the preseason game, he didn't look like he wasn't sharp. He had trouble blocking. There's still some question. You can ask Lions fans if drop passes are overrated at the tight end position

because Brandon Pedigrews probably cost him three or four games on his own. Well, I think if you compile a bunch over several seasons in a row, that's not overrated. But seeing one practice and got dropped a couple passes, that tends to be overrated. Mark, you see him down on the line. I'm not down on them. I mean, honestly, I picked them 19th. There's not that much difference between the 12th and 19th team. I've got them third in the division. I think Chicago will outplay them, and I have Green Bay winning the division. That division's going to eat itself up. You know, a lot of this that we're talking about over, you know, Stafford's got the numbers. We don't question that. I just, I think it's easy at this point to look at the team on paper and say they're going to have a field day. I'm not ready to call Eric Ebron, Vernon Davis yet. I need to see some of this happen on the field. Theoretic was out of the Browns game in two plays, got his

ass kicked. It's like, well, no, I'm sorry, but some of this is off season. There's a lot of reason for hope, but then the game starts. And Detroit, to me, is the third team in that division. I don't think that's even that negative. I think that there will be a good football team that comes in third and just misses the

playoffs again. It's probably the consensus, and they're the team where if we made these rankings at various points in the offseason, my ranking would have changed. At one point, I thought, I'm picking the Lions to the playoffs. I was right on the edge of doing it last year, and I went with the Panthers, which worked out. But I was thinking maybe the Lions are a playoff team this year,

because I do think they're talented enough. But the longer I've thought about it and sat with it, now I could see them being last place in that division. Part of the job is you have to stop other teams in your defense. I think we just sit around and talk about it too much. You should go with your first gut, probably. But we've just been living with this without any real. new game information for so long that

I just kind of, it's the coaching staff that basically starting to freak me out. We need a patcher prediction here. Patrick. Yeah, what are you got for this year? I have them right where Mark has them. And third, I think they'll, I have one game behind the Bears because I don't think they can win those last two games.

I think they'll be on the precipice, but they have play at Chicago and at Green Bay, and they can't win in cold weather on the road. They can't win Green Bay, period. and I don't see him winning in Chicago late in the season either. And I think those last two games are going to end it for them. All right. August 15th, 2000 and what year is it again? 14th. It's the 14th year of the 2000 part of the decade.

You know you have a problem. I really at different points, I am not aware of how old I am. Does that ever happen to you? You forget what your age is? I don't believe that's ever happened to me. That's happened to me. Mark? I'm on an island on this one, I guess.

I do not care what my age is. I don't even know what age. Like someone will ask and I'll have to think hard about it. But anyways, we're marking down this day because that's the drop we're going to use, Kevin, when the lion surprise everyone and make the playoffs and we'll point it out you never had any faith to begin with.

I hope to God it has. I hope I'm completely wrong. I think you won't be allowed to root for them. All right, Kevin. We'll talk to you next time. Thanks for chiming in. All right, fellas. Appreciate it.

All right, we're going to wrap up with a very quick speed round of another couple teams that we disagreed on. Let's talk about the Eagles a little bit. Wes, you had him down at 17th. That's lower than the rest of the group. I was pretty close to you. I see them as a middle of the pack NFL

team. Patrick had him up number seven. Sessler likes them too. Why you seem relatively down on the Eagles? They got extremely lucky last year, like historically lucky. They lost fewer games to injury than any team in the league.

by football outsiders measurements that first place team generally goes to 15th the next year in games lost to injury now it's possible Chip Kelly has hit on some formula to handle soft tissue injuries

that the rest of the league doesn't have or to prevent them but smoothies yeah that's true I should not underestimate personalized smoothies and they also turnover battle they finish near the top

in that and that tends to regress toward the middle of the pack as well I feel like they're going to be a lot more unlucky the shit you've got a surprise uh nfc east champion well going by the gregg rosenthal mandate that you can't have just the same playoff teams as last year i had to work the redskins in as my nfc well i don't think it's that surprise you can do whatever you're a grown man you're picking the team that won two years ago that's not a shock none of these teams would be a shock and that's why i kind of had the eagles in the middle of the pack even if i think they're the best

of the bad the bunch in that division that they all seem they're like the low grade The AFC North, to me, is all mixed together and no one stands out, but they're intriguing, whereas the NFC East is a bunch of teams mixed together, and they're lousy. You know, last year, everyone didn't take the Eagles seriously. They underrated them. I picked them to win the division. I was going to say, except for you, Greg, and you got some kudos for that. But now it's happening again.

They're going to make the playoffs. They're going to win the division. I could see that. I disagreed with you guys on the Saints. Who do you trust in more? Jay Gruden or Chip Kelly? That's a fair point. Can I change my answer?

I can't wait until there are videos in video cameras taping in here so our listeners can see the look of absolute disdain and pleasure on Sessler's face as he made that point. It was like Jay Gruden was in the room. Well, that factors in. Who's running the show? It's a fair point. It's not just, you know, names on the roster.

and analytics and sabermetrics. The Redskins are a rare team, and some people probably fairly or unfairly due to this to the Browns, that it's just the organization that I just assume everything they do will go wrong because they haven't proven me wrong on that. And a lot of the same pieces that were in place before for the Redskins struggling are still in place now. A confusing power vacuum where you don't know who's exactly picking the point.

players, some free agent, big-name pickups that, I don't know. Concerning. I'm not with it. Another team we disagreed on, and we'll wrap up with this one. The Saints, you guys had them number one in the league? We both did? Yeah. Five-five.

Who cares about all the riff-raft below? It's up top. We both see New Orleans for what they are this year's Super Bowl champion. Yeah, not a huge shock that a lot of agreement in the top five in general, Saints, Seahawks, Broncos, Packers, you know, on most list of Patriots and 49ers weren't far behind or they were even in the top five. I didn't have the Saints that high. I don't think they're a great team. I don't, I think they're a good team, but I don't see them as a top eight sort of team.

I can't wait until the Super Bowl parade when Mark and I are invited onto the float. I like that. Watt riding a wave of euphoria and Greg New Orleans's favorite son just kicked to the curb because he had no faith in them whatsoever. He'll be forced to. maybe write a story on it from Culver City. Wait, hold on. Number one, their defense. We've talked a lot about their defense. They're doing some exciting stuff with their safeties.

Rob Bryan, Total Redemption Story. You want to talk about trusting a team. I'll always trust Sean Payton with this offense and Drew Brees. I'm not sure what's not to like about New Orleans. I hear you. Well, the health of their secondary. We don't know for sure if Jarrett's going to be ready for week one. Week one's overrated in August.

I agree with that. They're a little thin at cornerback. I think they did as well as they possibly could have on defense last year. They're not getting better on defense. They lost a lot more games to injury on defense last year than they will this year, probably, because they lost a ton of games to injury on defense last year. I think they're a lot healthier now, and they finished fourth in defense in Rob Ryan's first year. And they held training camp at a swank resort in West Virginia.

We are going to lose some games to injury when Dan sees the runtime of this app. particular podcast. I was going to wrap it up on your great dig on me stuck in Culver City for the Super Bowl. But you went on. All right. That's it. Zach, it's been great to have you here. We'll have you back on Monday.

Until then, I'm Greg Rosenthal, signing off from Mark Sessler, Chris Wesleying, Kevin Patra, and Dan Hansis in absentia. This is an I-Heart podcast.