NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL ATL: Top 10 NFL players

Episode Date: July 8, 2014

A room full of heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler -- react to the latest news from around the league including Josh Gordon's arrest, Jimmy Graham's contract situation, RGIII's reported return to 2012 form and  much more. The guys also reveal new players on "Making the Leap" before comparing top 10 NFL players lists.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the League podcast. Does it watch soccer? Welcome back to another edition of the Around the League podcast. My name is Dan Hansis and I am joined by a room filled with heroes. Chris Wessling, Mark Zessler, and Greg Rosenthal. What up, boys. Hey, Dan.

Welcome back. July 4th weekend is in the books. and now we are back together. I know we spend way too much time together because it feels like it's been so long since we've all been together. And really, it's only been, what, four days, five days? Four days.

And Greg, on his vacation, not shaved, not clean-shaven, a little Don Johnson-87 look going on right now. I think he looks kind of fetching like this. Fetching. Yeah, a little bit. Greg on top of his game. TD, what do you think about Greg, not clean-shaven? Well, I'm getting to learn a lot of things about Greg doing the show, you know, like how active he is, his tasted music, you know, whoever thought Ferro Montch was going to come up.

And he has a little Michael Serra in This is the End vibe going on. Wow. I think this is like this is pre-bender Greg. Maybe not a compliment if you saw the movie. Pre-bender? Yeah, well, Greg has got a week off. He's about to enter into just Bender territory in West Los Angeles. This is how I looked around eight or nine years working at home going to the office.

Once a week, it was a beautiful life. He gets pretty fired up. I like it. He does get fired up. Good body language. All right, boys, we have a very nice show today. Since we've been away for a while, there's a lot to get to plenty of good news tidbits. We unveiled our own, on Tuesday morning, we unveiled our own top 10 lists, each of us, ahead of the NFL Network's top 100 players of 2014.

Their top 10 will be unveiled on Wednesday night on NFL Network. We have our top 10s. We're going to share those. and Chris Wessling, the scientist, wrote up a piece on the top 10 snubs that aren't on the list so we could safely deduce who's left and who, so who was not picked. So we're going to get into that. We're going to continue or making the Leap Series is heading toward the home stretch. We have two more players to hit on that.

We'll get to that a little later. But before we do any of that, gentlemen, we're going to speak again to TD, Black Tie, TD, however you're comfortable calling him behind the glass, not behind the glass. How you doing, buddy? want to do some news? We're all behind the glass, first of all, like I said. Although the new Studio 66 is, I checked that out today. It's coming along pretty nicely.

So, yeah, I'm doing more, guys. How about yourself? Doing nice. It's good. It's good, like Greg said, it's great to be all back together. Why don't we do some news? Yay, I'm okay. That's the scientists.

That's good. I like that. Yeah, that's awesome. Leave it in there. But he can't shut it. We've entered the lamb early. Leave that in there. You like letting them peep behind the curtain, leave it all in.

It was a long weekend, obviously, for TD, whose fingers, sausage fingers just plop down to hit seven buttons at once, apparently. Before you guys that started, I got a question for you, just to be topical. Who chooses a team first? The NFL ATL or LeBron? Ooh. I would guess LeBron. Without question.

We're not doing it until the regular season starts. So that would be a problem. The NBA would be in the middle of their... Actually, yeah, I wasn't actually thinking of your question. I was just made me think about LeBron how he's about to double cross like 40 million people again. That's where I was getting at. Which we won't do. Whatever we choose, it will be done in a democratic sense.

And, you know, we're going to get it right. Well, LeBron can perfect the double cross. He can make an art out of it. That's true. That's true. And, yeah, the team of ATL, we pick a team every year. Panthers were last year. We're going to start ramping that up as we get close.

closer to the regular season as we nominate our own special teams, and Wes inevitably shoots them down before we side with whatever Wes says. I like the way you're going with it. That is the roadmap here. That's the M.O. I like that you're owning up to it, too. Oh, yeah. I told you guys, you guys all have teams.

I don't have the Jets, the Browns, or the Patriots. I like Greg keeping silent because Greg is thinking to himself, that's what he thinks. Yeah, that is exactly what I was thinking. I've heard some of these ones that you've been bringing up in the office. All right, let's do some news. We'll start with some, you know, really bummer news, especially for the Mark Sesslers of the world and the Cleveland Browns fans and anybody that likes Josh Gordon on a football field, the Cleveland Browns wide receiver was arrested on suspicion of DWI this weekend. Albert Breer, NFL media's own Albert Breer confirmed that Gordon was arrested.

suspicion of DWI in Raleigh, North Carolina. Gordon was driving while impaired and clock going 50 in a 35-mile-per-hour zone. Here's a quote from Brown's general manager, Ray Farmer. We are aware of the matter and are disappointed to learn of this situation. We will comment further at the appropriate time. Obviously, this is bad, bad timing for Gordon, who has his appeal coming up on the suspension that he has coming up for failing a drug test with the NFL, now with a DUI hanging over him.

It's looking more and more apparent, at least to me, that Josh Gordon isn't playing football in 2014. Not only that, but NFL media insider Ian Rappaport tweeted out the day this all went down that the Browns actually feel much stronger than their public statements have been, and there's doubt creeping in now that Gordon will ever play for the Browns again. And they had been planning for weeks, months, for an offense without him. I mean, they are closer to him than anyone else. They see his behavior day-to-day. They have to realize this guy needs to be shut down.

It would be wise for the lead just to shut him down for the year. And let's see where they are. What I don't agree with is certain people coming out and saying, oh, Cleveland to just cut him. A, you don't pay him if he's suspended. and there's no reason to have the other side of this potential Chris Carter story go to the Pittsburgh Steelers or the Baltimore Ravens. Speaking of Chris Carter, Carter said himself that he believes the Browns can help Josh Gordon by releasing him. Here's Carter's quote.

I feel for the kid, my situation was very, very similar if I'm the Cleveland Browns and it's gut-wrenching for me to say this. I really think that's the only thing that's going to help this kid is if they release him. if you're if you filed the NFL 20 years earlier 20 years ago Chris Carter was a once a rising player for the Eagles who was cut he had some he was a party or partier type guy he ended up landing with the Vikings and becoming a Hall of Famer Mark Sessler I know because we've discussed talked about this that's your ultimate fear that Gordon gets dumped by the Browns cleans up his act and becomes a Hall of Fame or somewhere else well I think Wesleyan he did this post yesterday and correctly pointed out that this isn't the same thing situation. And it's not the same caliber of player at this point in their careers. When Chris Carter was released by the Eagles, he wasn't the NFL's leading receiver. Again, you lose nothing financially by just housing Gordon away and see what comes out on the other end. You don't just let go of them and have another team pick them up. It sounds weird, but this almost takes

the onus and the pressure off the Browns. They didn't know how long they were going to have Gordon for this year. He was going to show up to training camp practice for a few days. days, then have his appeal. There was legitimate belief by a lot of people that he wasn't going to get suspended for the whole year. Now this comes up, and I think you're right. You just let the league do what they're going to do, and you revisit it next year. And here's the other problem is that with Josh Gordon, the bigger problem is when he's left to his own devices is when he gets into trouble, it seems. And now, you know, he's going to disappear.

DeQuelle Jackson, a former teammate, tweeted out after the arrest. If you're close to Josh Gordon, please help this kid. It's not about football anymore. It's about picking up the pieces of his life. He's hanging out with undesirables. The guy that bonded him out sounds like a career criminal. I mean, everything around Gordon seems toxic right now. It's not a good story.

That's a good point about the toxicity of the people around him. But if you're the Browns and you see someone like Honey Badger turn his life around and become a good player and become accountable and does seem to have done a 180, if you're the Browns, I think you kind of owe it to yourself to see if you can help Josh Gordon and, you know, from a football sense, not give up on a guy. Plus, it's an organizational decision. It's not the coach making a decision. Think of how long a year is if he does sit out this year.

At this time, a year ago, Michael Lombardi and Joe Banner were picking the players. Rob Chisinski was the coach. I mean, entire organization can change in a year. He's someone that's on your team and you'll worry about it next year when it comes. Two weeks ago, Lane Johnson, the number four overall pick in the 2013 draft was suspended four games for PED violation. Last Thursday, this is right after we put out our last podcast. The Dolphins announced that Dionne Jordan, the number three overall pick in the 2013 draft, has been suspended without pay for the first four games of the 2014 season for violating the NFL's policy on PEDs.

Jordan famously was getting a lot of hype earlier this spring. There was a line from Armando Salguero, is that high? Salgaro, the Miami Herald, who noted at OTAs that Jordan looked as, quote, if he took an air pump to his arms and shoulders, and now he gets a PED pop. So not good times for the dolphins who are having not a good offseason, and Dionne Jordan, who is behind the eight ball now. we can't attribute the air pump blown up arms directly to this we don't know that I can I'll do it well we can draw some connections I'm going to do it

you know checking in with our lawyer angle we got to be smart about that but at the same time it's another Jeff Ireland era move that looks disastrous right now Ireland out of nowhere they trade up for the guy we were done trashed Jeff Ireland's wait to do it again well you are done until an iron product. Greg is dancing a jig now that we're trashing Jeff Ireland. I guess this is up your alley. I mean, but it's

what a mess. A, they went up to get him and they had still not even figured out how to correctly use him. They've traded up to draft a 3-4 outside linebacker for a 4-3 scheme. And now he was bulking up to play defensive M because he

wasn't big enough to play that position. He's going to lose weight if he's not on the PADs, we can assume so is he back to being a linebacker again, which he doesn't fit in a 4-3 scheme? I don't know if we can assume that. That he's going to drop some weight? Well, they didn't have a position for it.

He wasn't even going to start. That's a top five pick not starting. Imagine if this was another sport, though. Two top four picks get busted for PDs, and yet it doesn't really feel like a massive story, does it? There's just something. I don't want to inspire any shadowy league figures to walk into this studio, but isn't it just weird how the NFL

is Teflon when it comes to relatively high-profile guys getting PED suspensions? Probably because the NFL, the NFL actually is a watchdog organization who finds out these failed tests and then punishes them. All right. Whereas for years, the Major League Baseball was just the Wild West. You could do whatever you wanted. It's a lot of heat. There's a lot of heat all over the place. Hey, that's not the only suspension that happened on Thursday.

Indianapolis Colts-wide receiver LeVron Brazil has been suspended for at least one year without pay for violating the NFL's policy for substances of abuse. This is just another failed drug test for Brazil who was tagged with a four-game ban to start the 2013 season. He didn't seem to have a big role coming up this season for the Colts, but now he's out of play for an entire year, if not more, his career might be over. He made a couple of big plays in the playoffs last year when they needed him with so many injuries, but now Reggie Wayne is coming back.

They draft Dante Moncrief. They still have Day Rick Rogers. He was probably fighting for the number five spot. I thought the suspension was interesting because he said last summer when he was suspended, theater was going to have to choose between marijuana and money, and it looked like he didn't really make the right choice. Is that a roadmap?

If he got 16 games for marijuana or a substance, isn't Gordon a home run for 16 games? There was all this optimism that would be 6 to 8. In general, if you're a... a multiple time offender and a DWI would fall under that policy, yeah, then you would get a year you would think. Greg, answer without thinking, money or marijuana? Answer, answer, answer, answer, answer. Money would allow you to go buy as much product of any sort that you'd want, so I would go money.

TD, money or marijuana. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Boolah, baby. A little hesitation. A little hesitation. I had to put my head into, my mic and go to mute. I noticed you did not check in with me on that topic. Wes, we're going to be checking Wes into rehab directly after today's podcast.

I would like to have money at one point in my life. It would be nice. All right, let's do some more positive RG3 stories. Wes is hyped up RG3 as the comeback player of the year, all offseason, and now offensive coordinator for the Washington Redskins. Sean McVeigh is getting in on the praise train and he's hyping up the young quarterback as a guy who's going to be the guy that we saw when he was a rookie. Here's the quote.

He looks like he is exactly what he was in the 2012 season. McVeigh recently told ESPN Radio. I think people underestimate when you have a brace on your knee how much that truly restricts you. So I think being able to take that off, he looks extremely explosive. RG3. RG3 again. And if so, get ready to see him near the top of the top 100 list next year. This is one thing I've been saying since the end of last year that RG3 wouldn't be himself again until he got rid of that bulky brace.

It's just hard to play with that, especially his skill set. And as Mark was typing up this post Saturday afternoon, I was actually watching RG3's 2012 film. Explain a brag. I don't know if I feel he was absolutely explosive. I don't know if I feel as strongly about him after watching the film that that offense, I think Kyle Shanahan should get as much credit as RG3. That offense was set up where all they did was run slam. trance, crossing routes, screens, occasional deep balls, and some read option.

RG3 still has to prove he can be an NFL quarterback, I think. Don't they have more weapons in the passing game than they did back then? He's got to help a little bit. He's absolutely set up for success, and I believe in his talent. I just don't know if I believe in his skill set as an NFL quarterback yet. He was wildly accurate that year. He was maybe the most accurate quarterback. It's wildly accurate a term?

I do. That's a fair point. Oxymara. But you're right. That's why I think we've talked about him as someone that could have such a range in his career because we haven't seen him do that. And when some analysts were putting up a warning flag during his rookie year, they were just saying he's been great and everything they asked him to do,

but they didn't ask him to do as much as Andrew Luck did. One thing McVe points out in the second part of his quote is that it's that mobility and his ability to run again that they're going to use, as opposed to the laundry list of articles last. I'm going to shy away from this, long career-wise. you don't want him to get hurt. McVease, like, he's going to be used as a running quarterback. Real quick. He was accurate and he was accurate in college too, but when you watch, he has such defined throws where, okay, you're going to hit this option and he's wide open because he ran a play

action or because he did read option. I think that's a big part of his accuracy. We are taping this podcast on July 8th, on July 15th, which is, I guess, a week from today. The Saints and Jimmy Graham hit the deadline for coming to agreement on a long-term contract. Of course, Graham lost his case to be labeled as a wide receiver in accordance to the franchise tag. So he's in a tough predicament right now, retired tight end and future Hall of Famer Tony Gonzalez has some insight on Graham's predicament. Here's his quote. I can think of a few terms to describe what's going on in the NFL like, quote, backward, quote, lack of common sense and quote, behind the times. Gonzalez wrote on CBS Sports.com.

But the one that makes the most sense is discrimination. Salaries should be set based on production and contributions, not positions. I'm kind of exhausted with all this stuff with the tight ends and the money and stuff. But I will say that the big story to me, yeah, the big story to me is there's so much bad blood between the Saints and Graham that there is a scenario where Graham is not on the field week one. How likely is this? Not at all. Spoilerly. Thursday, afternoon.

on Total Access, Ian kind of had Graham's side where he could envision Graham, if they don't agree to a long-term contract by next week's deadline, he can envision Graham holding out a training camp, possibly sitting out some regular season games, and then Albert Breer had it from the Saints side where they're confident that they'll come to an agreement by July 15th. I mean, they're going to make him the highest paid tight end. They've already offered him a contract that makes him the highest paid tight end. But his angle is that he needs to be, there's still a gap between that money and the money he believes he should be paid as a wide receiver. And Gonzales made a good point that even when the Chiefs made him the highest paid tight end in the league twice, he still wasn't getting top wide receiver money, which he felt he deserved. Graham, I think he'll get close to it. He'll get $9 million a year at least. That's not top-wide receiver money.

It's close. That's not even Mike Wallace money, much less Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald money. Is it Wallace $15 million? 12 million. It's fair. It's fair, but I don't, when I hear those two different reports on our air, it sounds like negotiating through the media. Yes. Doesn't it feel?

I think the worst case scenario is, I think they will sign a contract in the next week. And if that doesn't happen, I think the worst case scenario is he signed sometime before, you know, 10 days before the start of the year. Five years from now, if they're still doing franchise tags somewhat the same way, will there be two tight-end designations? I mean, you've got a group of guys that don't fit with a big. chunk of the other players that play their positions. I would imagine we'd have to wait for the next collective bargaining agreement, which I think would be in 2021. Far down the road, yeah.

But would we get rid of positions altogether and just come up with one franchise tag number for all positions? I like that. I like that, too. All right, moving on, gentlemen. So the top 100 players of 2014, the NFL network will unveil the final 10 names on the list. The around the league team said, you know what?

We're going to put out our top 10 and let the people decide which. list is better. That was not actually what we discussed. That was not the conceit for doing this. But this is our top 10 list. All five of us, including Kevin Patra, did one. And why don't we go through them now? And I guess the best way to do this is go one list at a time. And I'll do the rundown. And then, you know, Mark, Wes, Greg, whoever jump in with a question about the list that I just read off. We'll start with the boss because he is the boss. He is the editor. of around the league. Greg Rosenthal. Here's his top list. One through 10. Aaron Rogers, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, J.J. Watt, Calvin Johnson at number five. Drew Brees, LaShawn McCoy,

Adrian Peterson, Robert Quinn, and Philip Rivers. Phil Rivers. He's in. Yeah, that was tough for me. I had an easy time actually getting the first eight in order. After that, there was five or six guys that I kept switching around. Ben Rathesberger was a strong consideration. Rob Grankowski was a consideration. But Rivers, to me, just the more I think about it as he's hitting about age 32 and the offense around him, I could see him having a Drew Brees-like late career run. And if we're just talking about this season, who I'm the most confident is going to be a top five type of quarterback

and sneak into the end of this top 10, I think we've got to give it. our boy, Philip Rivers, some love. Well, you are... Maybe not our boy. You are catching some heat already on NFL.com for your decision, and so it's a bold one. Oh, that's stupid. There's been some whispers from the readers concerned about the fact that he was... The common section.

Always a bastion of common sense. They didn't like Rivers on there, or just in general? No, Rivers. But I'm surprised, anyone surprised that Big Ben is not chosen over Rivers. What did you and Rivers do over July 4th weekend when you were hanging out there? Watch Rivers is taped from last. season, and on a week-to-week basis in terms of accurate, everything you're looking for in a quarterback, and I think he's going to be like a manning and a Brady where, as his mind is just

so far ahead of the rest of the league, he's going to be his best in his 30s. I agree with that. His mind is pretty far ahead of the rest of the league. Do you have any concern whatsoever about how often he relied on short passes last year in Ken Wisenhunt's offense, and how will that be different without Wisenhunt? Will defenses adjust to these short, quick passes? You never like the idea of changing offensive coordinators, but I do like what I heard when our guy, Bucky Brooks,

was in here last time talking about the up-tempo offense, letting rivers really control it, kind of like a Peyton Manning. That's more pass attempts, more on Rivers' shoulders, more rivers. And I will one more note on Greg's list. You and you write, we have the write-up on NFL.com of all our lists, and you wrote that LaShawn McCoy, in your mind, has, quote, narrowly passed Adrian Peterson as the league's top running back. That caused West to throw up his pen in disgust.

And I'm using disgust as the exact word because that's the look in his face right now. Greg? 700 more yards Shady McCoy had than Adrian Peterson last year. I don't think the gap is that large, but that's pretty big. LaShawn McCoy is in the very prime of his career. He is a dynamic player on passing downs. Half of the downs in the NFL are passing downs now. And you can't compare him to Peterson on passing downs.

McCoy has rounded out his game where he's now a good inside runner. He breaks tackles. To me, he is a guy that I think we'll look back on was underrated throughout his career. And he's smack in the middle of his prime. The gap is gaping. Adrian Peterson and all other running back in the NFL. This is 2014. This is in 2008 to 2013.

This is this year. Adrian Peterson is Tim Duncan in his prime. You can post him up, run your offense through him. LaShawn McCoy is Kevin Garnett. He's going to float on the perimeter, be inconsistent. You can't really run your offense through him. Who touched the ball more? I mean, he was just as active as Peterson.

Put Adrian Peterson and Chip Kelly's offense, and it gets all the yards. All of the yards in the NFL go to Adrian Peterson if he put him in Chip Kelly's offense. I have Adrian Peterson a running back number eight on the list. He is, what, my number three ranked non-quarterbacker, number four right. Now, I think he is an unbelievable. player. But Bacoy We should just move on. It's gotten a little uncomfortable. I don't like it.

I'm not happy about this one. I'm surprised. All right. Let's see. Peterson just shreds fools. All right, let's just move on. It can't be contained. Can't be contained. Is he as good as he was a few years ago? Is he as good as he was two years ago when he had one of the best scenes of all time? Take it to the lab, gentlemen. Probably not. Still better than everyone else.

At a studio four and into the lab. All right, here's my top ten. And I'll start right at the top because it's probably the most notable thing. I was the only one not to put Aaron Rogers as the number one player. I have Peyton Manning at one. Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, J.J. Watt, Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, Drew Brees, Earl Thomas, Dorel Revis, and LaShawn McCoy at number 10. So you are buying. Well, let's start with why Manning over Rogers.

I just found it impossible coming off a season where Manning, yes, he's getting old. but until he truly plays old, I am not going to drop him. And I think he's mastered the position in a way that we've never seen in the NFL. So as long as he's coming off that season, I am not going to not put him at number one because I think he plays his position better than any other player plays a position in the league. And he plays the most important position. So for me, that makes a more. Does it factor in for you that Rogers was hurt and didn't have a chance to put 16 years up?

Yeah, I mean, we talked about this last week that my only concern, about Rogers, you know, marking him as the best player is, A, the injuries last year, and also that they haven't had much playoff success, which, of course, the team has a big reason of that, but they haven't really done anything since that Super Bowl win. So, yeah, Rogers is number two, and he's a clear cut number two for me, but I think Manning just gets the edge. Do you still own a Dorel Revis jersey? I mean, in the top 10 in 2014.

Yeah, I've been saying it all offseason. I've been pounding the table that I think Revis hyper-mo. motivated playing for a great coach in a great spot in New England where they're going to know how to use them and play him the right way entering his age 29 season. I think he has another year or two of truly elite play where he's going to be all the way back full year removed from knee surgery. I think people are sleeping on Revis as being Revis Island Revis. I agree.

People are sleeping on Revis. I have no problem with him on your top 10 list. As far as Manning playing at a really high level, one of the highest levels we ever seen, almost as high as Aaron Rogers played three years ago when he set the passer rating record and his team was 15 and 1 Peyton Manning almost played that well last year Right well yeah I mean you're citing something that happened three years ago

Aaron Rogers still that guy but he's not throwing to Julius Thomas Wes Wilker Decker and Demerius Thomas Sure his weapons are good but listen Aaron Rogers hasn't been hard up for weapons in his career either So I don't know if that's the way to play. He can't really knock Rogers' playoff success when he's been a much better playoff quarterback than Peyton Manning There's some heat

I like your inclusion of Earl Thomas on this list I don't think anyone else Had Earl Thomas mentioned I thought it was telling you know When you're talking about that was a historically great Defense You know I think he's the guy really that's the glue of that defense And I thought it was interesting that Seattle took care of him first

For a contract I think this guy is a stud in the prime of his career And I think playing for the best team in the league And all that I think he deserved the spot Any other quibbles before we move on No, I like the Earl Thomas. I think he should be ahead of Richard Schump or Sherman on most list.

And, oh, I went to say, I was just, because I had Jamal Charles, I was going to put him at 11. Or I was arguing with myself between McCoy and Charles. What was your number 11 was, Greg? Rob Gun Krause. It was hard to leave Gronkov because I think if he's healthy, he's the biggest game changer of any offensive player in the league. That's not a quarterback. Not to get off topic, but I was at a barbecue this weekend, and a good buddy of mine asked, me, in his keeper league, he could keep Rob Grancowski in the fourth round or Gio Bernard

in the third round. What would be your choice? Definitely, Grunk, because fantasy football is all about having an advantage on everyone else in the league, and when you have Gronk, you have an advantage on everyone else in the league. Let me get this straight. You have friendships outside of this circle. I hate that it came out like this, but sadly, that it is.

is the truth. All right. We're moving and now Mark is a little upset, so we're going to bring him up now. We'll go through his list. Mark's top 10 reads like this. Number one, Aaron Rogers, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Breeze, Andrew Luck number five. Ben Rothlisberger, Calvin Johnson,

J.J. Watt, Richard Sherman, and Luke Keekeley. Who wants to jump in? Six quarterbacks to start it off. Andrew Luck, already ahead of guys like J.J. Watt and Calvin Johnson. Well, look, can I All right, I almost just went 10 quarterbacks.

Because I don't like the way that the whole top 100 is constructed where we feel in need. This is your top 10, though. Forget about how they do it. That's the reason I think they've got it wrong is that you have to dot the list with all these different positions. If I were to start a team, easily I would go one of those top 10 quarterbacks before anyone else to start my team. But it's not a start the team list. It's who is the best at what they do, I think, is a big part of it. take a franchise quarterback's contribution over almost any, almost any other player in the league.

I find luck a very interesting, intriguing pick. He could be ahead of the curve because he might become a true superstar this year. But the argument is that you're projecting because his first two seasons, he's had amazing moments. But his statistics have been pedestrian on some level. He isn't quite that guy yet where you could say, oh, he's a top five player in the league. You say he is right now. It's about expectations for 2014 seasons. Isn't that what this top 100 list is?

That's what I take it as. You're right about the stats, but I don't look at last season's numbers. Andrew Luck is, I have no problem calling him the fifth-best quarterback in football. Well, when we were putting together the making the leap list, I made a failed argument to include Luck because I thought he would make the leap to superstar status. So I agree with you, and I think I kind of like him on this list. That's a, just Mark, just showing the guts that he has inside. I think he's the flashiest quarterback in the league, and that's going to get it.

I mean, like, those throws in the playoffs, like the one to the suspended, now suspended Levant Brazil. I mean, he makes two throws every game that no quarterbacks make. Luke Keekly, number 10 on your list. I believe you're the only one of the five of us to have Keekly involved. Defensive player of the year, Luke Keekley. Yeah, I just think I look at impact and the kind of impact certain players have on their teams, too. Part of it is scheme. You can't get around that.

And I think he's a guy. You take him out of that defense. everything changes for Carolina. It wouldn't have been a playoff team last year. It's a fair point. I didn't put it in my top ten because I don't think he's appreciably better than Levanti David or Patrick Willis or a healthy Navarro Bowman, much less appreciably better than Thomas Davis. Why do you hate JJ Watt so much?

We all had him in the top five and you're going to have to explain to JJ. Who's a big listener of the podcast? I have met him in person and he could destroy me quicker than that UFC fight that Wesleyan and I watched. Rhonda Rousey, she took care of her. It happened by, sir, it wasn't intentional. It was going on in the room, so we were forced to watch it. But the woman champion took care of the challenger in maybe five and a half seconds. It was impressive.

Did you guys ride to the bar on a motorcycle to watch your UFC match? Scooter. No. It was happenstance that it was on before us. But I will say that what, it just goes back to everyone got bumped down because I wish I just done 10, 10 quarterbacks. All right. Anything else with Mark's list? Last chance. Nice, nice job, Mark. All right.

And, you know, yes, I have friends outside the Around the League circle, but you're very special to me. I wish you weren't a liar. All right, Chris Wesleying, the scientists will go through the mailman's list. Number one, Aaron Rogers, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, J.J. Watt at 5. Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, Robert Quinn, Jimmy Graham, and number two, Number 10, Andrew Luck. Thoughts, gentlemen. Me and you are the only two that had Quinn on.

What was the thought process with sneaking a pass stretch for the Rams on the end of the list? I thought, okay, JJ watched the best defensive player in the league, but I thought Quinn had the best season of any defensive player last year. He was, I think he had seven forced fumbles in addition to his 19 sacks. He's the fastest. He's up there, okay, with Javon Curse and Dwight Freene is the fast. as defensive ends I've ever seen. I like the idea that Bucky Brooks was telling us about how Greg Williams is going to get more one-on-one

matchups for Quinn. And just that defensive – it seems like to me he's in such a position to have an all-time contract run type of season, and they'll have to pay Robert Quinn a ridiculous sum of money next year. Wes, you have Jimmy Graham on your list, unless I'm mistaken you're the only around the league member to put him in the top 10. Was it hard to put him in over Rob Grunkowski? No, because I don't, a lot of this list is about 2014 expectations, and there's just, as great as I think Grunkowski is, he has the best age 25 career of any tight end in history. I just don't know what he's going to be coming off reconstructive knee surgery.

It was hard. That was between Jamal Charles and Lashon McCoy were my next two people, and I chose Jimmy Graham and luck over them. I was going to have luck in my top ten regardless, just because it's fun. I want that on record that I had him in my top 10. So you like Shady McCoy? I do like Shady McCoy. Jamal Charles, I thought, had an even better year than McCoy last year. Jamal Charles not showing up in any of our top 10 list seems a tad unfair when you look at what he did last year.

That's fair. Jimmy Graham, though, I think before his planter fascia, which nobody in the media will ever talk about for some reason. He tore his plantar fascia in October last year. It's on the blacklist of media coverage. It was averaging 120 yards per game and was discussed as the leader for the MVP at that point in the season. And then he went down to 50-something yards per game after that. It's easy to forget just how dominant he was early last season. He's had a couple of those little nagging injuries in his career.

That wasn't the first. Because he's a tight end. Fair. One thing. Not a wide receiver. I see no Jason Campbell on this list, explain. Because I subtract one point for every checkdown you throw. Put some in trouble territory

I'm at negative 320 I am surprised how the sausage is made those top 10 less I am surprised you put Manning over Tom Brady Dan and I were actually talking about this about your list

that's how you know obsessed we are with you I'm surprised too we could have sworn you would have put Tom Brady over in the end of it because I do believe if you put Brady in the Broncos offense he does the same thing

as Manning but I guess Dan's point on consistency it does matter and from week to week Manning was more consistent last year and he's going to have better weapons again this year so we'll probably be more consistent again anything else on West's list

I just want to run through Patches list as well because he is the fifth member of ATL he is our Chicago correspondent one Aaron Rogers two JJ Watt Peyton Manning Tom Brady Drew Brees Calvin Johnson Earl Thomas Adrian Peterson Lashon McCoy and Richard Sherman I think 10 I think Sherman

did he get on anybody else's list? I got on mine okay it's on Mark it's funny it's the list is almost like if you took a pole of R4 list, it would be this top 10. So Patrick tying it up neatly in a red bow. And that's why he's

essential. The one difference is Watt number two. I do think you can make the argument that Watt over the last two years has played his position better than anyone has played any position. I agree with that. I like that Patrick also rewards the Seahawks defense. That's nice

that he has both Sherman and Thomas in the top 10, which kind of relates to how dominant they were last year. Good job, Kevin Patra. We love you, buddy. All right, so now let's go, let's move on to something that Chris Wesleying wrote up over the weekend. Now we're going to cycle, that's our top tens.

Now we're going to go to the NFL network side of it that the players voted on. We kind of have a general idea if you do the processes of elimination. Who's going to be the top ten for their list? So West felt safe to list his tense, from the NFL Network's top 100 players list. And I will read off that top 10 right now. In order, Matt Ryan, Callais Campbell, Percy Harvin, Jarvis Bird.

Jairus Byrd. Thomas Davis, Jarrell Casey, Carlos Dansby, Jordan Cameron, Julius Thomas, and Jason Hatcher. Those are the top 10 snubs according to Chris Wessling. Greg made a dismissive gesture or sound just now. So let's hear what that was about. Once we got to the Carlos Dansby, you know, we could have just left it at six snubs or something. Greg, I'm just saying, people aren't going to be, you know, torching the streets, being wondering where Danzby is.

Carlos Dansby, who Cardinals fans firmly believe should have been a defensive player of your discussion last year. This is a very solid list. I've not followed the top 100s every movement, and I already thought that Jordan Cameron was on the top 100. It disturbs me that he's not and that Julius Thomas is not. I don't understand how this thing is going to happen. Well, you have to get Charles Clay onto your top 100 list somehow. There you go.

And that was right out of the gate, you know, an infamous move that, I don't know, the voting process here is disturbing. Matt Ryan's 17th in 2013. Out of the list Just because his wide receivers got hurt And his offensive line was terrible last year Other than that, he was the exact same quarterback To a man, anyone you ask about

And we got a good idea of this during the Seahawks playoff run Everyone speaks with reverence about Percy Harvin And what he brings to a team And I mean, listen, the guy And then he showed it in the Super Bowl If this is the top 100 players of 2014 How is he not anywhere on this list? You've got to be on the field though

Two straight years he wasn't really on the field field. He had nothing to do with them making the playoffs. So if he's on most teams in the league, he wouldn't have played last year. Do you assume that he will be on the field this year? Not really. I do. Well, I will assume that until it's not true. I don't have the NFL. I don't have the NFL injury predictor, but I've been looking all over for it. Turns out it was behind Greg's couch the whole time. No, look, he is a smaller guy. He's huge. He's one of the most rocked-out receiver to NFL. But he plays so aggressively. He's had a significant problem with injuries in his career.

You can't deny this. We knocked Gronk for such same reason. I'd knock guys because I think if I'm not sure how they're going to look going into the season, but Percy Harvin's 100%. Yeah, that's fair. You can't call this list Best Players of 2014. You cannot do it because if you're not going to put Matt Ryan on this list and you're going to put guys like Charles Clay on this thing,

Joe Fracko is in the top 50. That's the part I don't get. Right. I think a Super Bowl win buys you a lot of stock. for a couple seasons after it happens. And if you're Matt Ryan and you get stuck on a team that nose dives to four wins, you're out. Real quick, a couple of relevant stats on Matt Ryan. The list of quarterbacks with a higher completion percentage over the last two years, Peyton Manning.

The list of quarterbacks with more yards over the last two years, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Matthew Stafford. That's it. He was great in the first half of last year, and people forget that because they kept losing tough games. but every week I did those quarterback rings. Every week I would watch Ryan, and I kept sticking them in my top five, and people were complaining because they were losing games. But if you watched him play, he was unbelievable. No running game, no defense.

Turned Harry Douglas into a thousand-yard receiver. Mark, can I hear some more theories of assumption by you? How do we mean this? You just assume. I find the exercise very disturbing. You need to actually decide what we're voting on. It is, you don't tell me that Matt Ryan is not a top 100 player this season starting right now, 2014, absurdities. Out of your list, the name that surprised me the most just in terms of not making it,

I can understand how Ryan didn't make it just because only 14 quarterbacks didn't rank it and people are stupid. They don't pick guys that win games. Jaris Byrd. That's absurd. That seems really strange to me. Not only is he an MVP. He's an MVP of this podcast. That should have been enough buzz to get on the list.

Howard is this not connecting. My only assumption is that, speaking of assumptions, my only assumption is that we don't have enough NFL players voting that listen to the podcast because he certainly would have been, what, top four, top two maybe? People can't pronounce his name. They can't put him on the list. Give the guy some respect. If there are NFL voters listening,

I would like to throw out a few phrases from Mark Sessler's screed on Aaron Rogers being ranked number 11 instead of in the top two or three where he belonged. Mark wrote something where he called Our precious collection of player voters, the same wizards who left Jimmy Graham off the list last year. No general manager on TerraFerma would leave Aaron Rogers out of the list. And the voting process has left Mark wondering if there are hanging Chad's flickering in the wind. Exactly. I cannot wait for the show to end. You are a factory of sandit! Well, I'm amazed, first of all, that Mark still works for the company after that post. Well, the funny thing is...

Well, it was edited down from its original. Well, the funny thing is Wesley is reading the highly edited version. No, no, no, this is the original version. No, it's not. I've printed it out. The raw uncensored version. No, this is not it. You never saw the original version.

There were F-bombs in the original version. This is the one that made... No, that's true. I totally never saw the original that it didn't make it on the site. This reached the highest levels of the NFL.com editorial staff, and I'm not even exaggerating. I was in a room with two other executives, and Mark's piece, where he slammed the list, came up, and some adjustments had to be made. I'm not exaggerating this at all.

Once again, reaffirms what we already knew. Mark Sessler, the NFL's bad boy. The Bill Lambere. Rick Ball War. All right, let's move on. Finally, we're going to supersize the show to next week. It's so much to get to.

We're going to a little longer than usual. So if you're on your treadmill listening right now or on the elliptical machine or you're out in the fields, you've got a lot more work to do. Not done yet. Or at the beach as one of our listeners. Or a vacation, which I'm happy that our listeners are taking vacations, but it made me jealous to think that someone was listening to my voice

when they were on a beach while. I was at home with an eight months pregnant woman who, you know, also known as your wife, right? Not just any woman. Thankfully, she's my wife. Just a random woman for the day, right? If she was my wife, I would not be sitting with her. I mean, you know, it's tough.

Anybody that has, you know, been around a pregnant woman in the late period of the pregnancy, it gets real, gentlemen. That's fair. Yeah, not a lot of laughs. Put it this way, being on the beach and the Dominican Republic or wherever that gentleman was. Fair to say that her burden slightly higher than yours at the moment. It's something, you know, we've got to weigh it. It could go either way, real.

All right. Good thing my wife does not listen to our podcast. All right, so we'll close up with the Making the Leap. We are down to the final seven names on the list. We'll start with Denver Broncos running back Monte Ball, who comes in at number seven, as I said. and I wrote up this piece. I will say that after watching the game tape of Ball's touches and how he was used, he got a lot better as the season went along.

So that's definitely reason to be optimistic. They let No Sean Moreno go in free agency, and there isn't a really big push behind him in terms of competition, so it looks pretty clear that the Broncos are going to lean hard on ball as their featured guy. He's playing for, in my opinion, as we know from the tournament, top 10, the greatest quarterback in the world, who's playing at the height of his powers, which changes how defenses have to play against the run.

It means he'll be seeing a lot of looks, nickel and dime looks, that will leave the field open for him if he does his job. So I think ball is a promising player who showed flashes last season of being a guy that could be a Pro Bowl-type player, but even more importantly, the reason I think he makes the leap is because he's in the most envious positions for any running back in the league right now. No Sean Marino had 1,600 yards from scrimmage last year

and over a dozen touchdowns and got peanuts on the open market. Right. You might not make the dolphins. What does that tell you? I think what it tells me is that people look at Denver's offense, and if you're a running back in that offense, you're going to be

dealing with essentially nickel, dime quarter coverage all day long. No one's stacking the box to deal with your running back when Peyton Manning has five high-octane receivers to throw to. It also tells you. that the Broncos decided Marino left too many yards on the field. This making the leap list is for players that we see as just wildly talented a lot of times.

But sometimes it's the situation, too. You can make the leap. And to me, his case is basically boiled down to what you said. If Noshan Moreno can get 1,500 yards, then why can't Mountie Ball get a little more? Ball is a better player. If you watch a tape, ball is a really good downhill runner. He's powerful. He's quick.

He runs between tackles better than Moreno does. So, yeah, going by what Moreno did, if ball stays healthy, he should not have any problem. I'll wait for the over and under on production until we're done with the topic. But, you know, I think that he shouldn't have any problem putting up the type of numbers that will earn Pro Bowl consideration. What, like, Ronnie Hillman, a big disappointment so far in Denver, but C.J. Anderson is a sleeper to put up some numbers this season.

That's not a bad late-round flyer for fantasy leagues. Considering the lack of job security among backs in Denver. And the Broncos haven't told us this publicly, but their off-season moves suggest they want more physicality and power in their offense. Moving Orlando Franklin from right tackle inside to guard, a massive player, and then putting Chris Clark at right tackle, they want to add more power to the running game, which should help Monta Ball.

Yeah, the whole line should be better with Ryan Clayty back. And, yeah, if you want to talk about an obstacle, He did put the ball on the ground three times, lost three fumbles earlier in the season, which led him hitting the doghouse for a bit. He didn't play in large stretches of week four and five. Seemed to clean that up as the season went along. Let's play over-under time, gentlemen. Monte ball 300 touches. I'd go over.

I'm going to go under. I'll go over. 1,300 rushing yards. Under. I'm going to go under. I also will go under. Ten touchdowns. Over.

Ooh. Broncos offense. That's a top 10 fantasy pick if you're playing along at home. And finally, 50 catches. Under. Under. Yeah, under. One thing real quick on fumbling.

I have a question for you guys. Do you attribute all the fumbling issues from Broncos' backs, Hillman, Marino? Two years ago, McGahey, he fumbled six or seven times. to being tasked with so many responsibilities in Peyton Manning's offense? Maybe they can't quite get into a groove. It's a good argument. I mean, you got too much on your plate. Hmm.

That should be the number one priority, though. Especially for young running backs. Like Hillman and Ball, it seemed like they're extra nervous. Well, they're thinking. Right. They're thinking instead of. And if you watch early in the, he had a terrible first half of the season, Ball did, and he couldn't catch.

I mean, he had Stonehands. This is a guy who they, to the Broncos. credit they kept going to him because I think they believed what they were seeing on the practice field. But early on in the season, the ball would bounce off his hands. He was shaking his head and he was dealing with some confidence issues early. It has to be somewhat intimidating to walk into that offense. Yeah, I agree. Number five on our list. We'll get to number six on Thursday. Don't question our methods. Just, you know, believe in the approach and we're going to get to number six. We might just skip him. No, we might even skip him. Listen, you don't

know. We might never even know who number six is. We won't tell you unless he comes up. Here we go. Number five. Actually, no. Look it up. NFL.com slash making the leap. Oh, yeah. We got the whole list there. Whole list there. Everybody on our list here. Put a lot of work in these. A lot of work. Number five on the list is Patriots linebacker Jamie Collins. Greg Rosenthal wrote up the piece, and he believes that Collins is a man that showed plenty of promise. And now we'll make the leap and become a big time past rusher in the Patriots defense.

Tell us why. Well, you know, Bill Belichick in the 80s essentially defined what people were looking for in 3-4 linebackers. Like the linebackers he had with the Giants, that kind of became the prototypes. And these are the, you want the Carl Banks in the middle, you want these guys in the outside. And to me, Jamie Collins has a chance to be almost that new sort of prototype.

It's not a 3-4 or a 4-3. He's not really an outside linebacker, an inside linebacker. You can play him in both. he's a 250-pound 6-4 guy who can play slot cornerback when you ask him, who played safety in college. He can rush the passer well when you ask him to, but a lot of times he's just backing up in coverage, and he's guarding tight ends.

He had Ty Hilton and LeVon Brazil sometimes one-on-one in coverage in the playoffs, not necessarily what you're always looking for, but did a really nice job in coverage and can do a little bit of everything, and he gives Belichick a chance to be more creative, and to me, Collins is a perfect player for this era of football where you want guys at that outside linebacker position to do a little bit of everything. I like, by the way, that you, this is Collins,

who didn't see much work until week 14. This is truly, Greg, going out on a long branch and making the leap on a man that maybe you didn't have a lot to go off. You think that he's just going to, the game is going to come to him, he's going to process it, he's going to be a major figure this year. Yeah, he barely played until week 14th. And he really played about half the snaps for a few games after that. Then Brandon Spikes got hurt, and he played every snap in the playoffs.

And his performance against the Colts, that's the reason he's on this list. I think it was one of the most versatile best performances by any defensive player in the entire league last year, not just rookies. I mean, he's covering guys. He hit Andrew Luck four times. He had a great interception in the game. He is very aggressive in run support, which I think was the knock on him coming into the NFL because he's a 250-pound guy who used to play safety, but he was very good at that when given the chance. And just everything adds up to a three-down player, whereas the other Patriots linebackers aren't necessarily three-down guys.

And I think he'll be on the field every down and have a chance to make a lot of plays. You were high on Brandon Spikes, and it wasn't until Spikes got injured that Collins got his chance. And then I thought they actually, that was a better move for the defense. Yeah. Maybe it took them a while to get up to speed. That was when you read the articles, reading between the lines, you look, it's a tough defense to pick up on.

He wasn't quite ready for it. But when he had to be on the field, he was usually playing inside linebacker those last couple of games, but he'd so often drop into coverage and just did a great job, whether as a slot cornerback, it just was disarming to see a guy. that's a linebacker, like, chasing down wide receivers from behind. He's just kind of an athletic freak. If you're Belichick, is this the most excited you've been about your defense in years? Because the emergence of Collins, but you have Daryl Revis, who was your headache year after year.

This is a tough deal for the rest of the AFC East. You mentioned all of Jamie Collins' responsibilities, how he goes out and defends the past, tight ends, running backs, even wide receivers. one guy who didn't make the leap but might have been number 26 on our list Emmanuel Lemuel got Lamar into the podcast has a lot of the same similarities as Collins

6-4-245-250 runs like the wind and we'll be covering all these the Bengals think he's a lot like Cam Chancellor I hope they let Jamie Collins rush the pastor because he was good at it that's one of the reasons Lamar didn't make it is because it's hard to get attention as a coverage lineback I think they will let him rush

and I think your point on Belichick and the nucleus they have is absolutely true. Of course, I'm a homer. But I think they have a better nucleus now with Chandler Jones, Devin McCordy, Revis, Jamie Collins, Jared Mayo, where Belichick could be a little more creative for the first time in a while. Greg, just floating. They've been very vanilla the last few years.

People don't know that. Delusional Patriots fans. Oh, stop. throws Revis in his nucleus on a one-year contract. Well, whatever. He's there this year. Wait, it's a one-year world we're living in. Just one more title.

Better not get used to him. Revis allowed Rex Ryan. Daddy's going to make his money elsewhere next year. That's fine. Revis allowed Rex Ryan to get creative, and I think Belichick, who's been very vanilla with play calling the last few years, get a little creative. Derell doesn't play for the Patriots.

He plays for the Benjamin's. That's fine. All right, over-under time real quick. Levante David, 130 tackles. Jamie Collins? Well, I think over here. Let me do it again. Jamie Collins, 130 tackles.

Way under. Yeah, that's under. Who gets 130 tackles? Dante David at 145. Well, you started that easy off the gate. I like that. Well, that makes it. And I compare.

Valante David's a stud. I said. Jamie Collins is making the league, according to Greg. Collins, to me, in his best case scenario, would be the AFC's edition of Levante, David, and Thomas Davis, plus about 15 pounds, but some similarities there. Wow. Seven sacks. I'm going to go over. I'm going under.

I'm going push. He will have seven. Mark, out on a limb again. Whenever we do the projection. That's what you do. I like it. Well, I go with what I see. All right.

That's it. That's it for today's podcast. A supersized edition of the Round of the League podcast. We will be back on Thursday with special guests. His name came up a little earlier in the show. Bucky Brooks will be back to lend his expertise sitting in Greg's chair. Greg will now head off on vacation where I'm sure he'll be doing something very exotic. He actually told me he's going to go.

Watch, back to back to back, Transformers' Age of Extinction, three times in a row in the theater. Have a nice vacation. T.D.'s like, that sounds good to this. T.D.'s so jealous. I can't believe Transformers made it back into the podcast the second week in a row. My work is dumb, guys. All right. Yeah, that's it. Until Thursday, this is Dan Hansa. Signing off for the Sizzler, the boss, the mailman, and T.D.

Until Thursday.