NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL ATL: Who do you trust, Seahawks NFC lock?

Episode Date: December 5, 2013

A room full of heroes -- Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler and Chris Wesseling -- bring you the latest headlines and discuss “What’s Wess Watching.” NFL Network’s “Around the League” show producer Michael Berger joins the debate to answer burning questions on the newest segment, “Who do you trust.” The crew also previews the Week 14 “Thursday Night Football” matchup between the Houston Texans and Jacksonville Jaguars.  Join the conversation on Twitter: @NFL_ATL or #NFLATL.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the League podcast still believes in Case Keenum. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the League podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal, Dan Hansis, not in the building today, but we still have a couple of heroes, Mark Sessler, and Chris Wessling. How's it feel for you? What up, boys? You did a pretty good job, though.

Greg, you forgot the what-up boys. Even I know that part. I'm not a big fan of the what-up boys, but I tried to honor Dan's memory because it's tough to go on without him. He's our favorite host of this entire show. We'll try to get by, and we wish him well. We're not quite certain what the deal is,

but he will be back. We'll be back on Friday. Absolutely. He's missing a big show. Kay Rich is excited back there. I am excited, guys. I'm ready for this first discussion. We're going to talk a little Seahawks

and whether they're the NFC favorites. We're going to go over the news with K. Rich. We're going to do a new game and bring in a new guest. Who do you trust? That's our game coming up a little bit. We might get a few Thursday night football thoughts, but we promise not too many. Mark, I'm amazed how you can come in to work. I know that you only had, like, one hour of sleep last night, and you're fine.

Listen, I just battle through. We had a going-away party for a guy at work, and then after Mark got home from that his kids didn't let him sleep and it's like it doesn't matter you just get used to these things you just got it you got to come in in battle and then i you know when i when west shows up i feel a new spirit and energy to the room glad i could contribute there you go you were also feeling quite an energy on monday night football when the seattle seahawks were laying the bang thing down on the new orleans saints and we got to half time or so we still had 30 minutes more of football to go and mark and dan and pretty much the rest of the

NFL Twitter community at that point just awarded the national football conference to the Seattle Seahawks. And I quote, this is Mark Sessler's Twitter post, Seattle versus Blank in the Super Bowl. Well, Dan went even a step further and said, just hand the title to the Seahawks because no AFC team can beat the Seattle Seahawks. Yeah, here's Dan's. Prepare for the first Super Bowl blowout in a wild world. It is coming. And I just have to be the voice of reason here. Why are the Seahawks to lock to the Super Bowl?

Just because they won a game in December, why are we saying they're going to win the Super Bowl or even make it? All right, well, in terms of them getting to the Super Bowl, which Dan obviously believes will happen to, let me try to defend him a bit and explain why. I wrote that. The assumption is that they don't lose home field, which major Earth events would have to unfold for Seattle not to be the home field team from here on out, right?

That's, I agree with that point. I don't see a team. I'm not saying, listen, anything's possible. But I don't see a team that can go into that stadium and knock them out. How about the Panthers? I like the Panthers chances a whole lot better than what I saw New Orleans do. How about the 49ers, pretty good team? I guess I'm just, I just went with my gut and I just, I tweeted that out because I just feel that Seattle is surging.

They got healthy. They got their line back. They don't even need Percy Harvin to rain points. on teams. Russell Wilson is playing flawless football, and they have my vote. I feel like we have two years worth of evidence now that they are the best home team, and they're really an outlier as far as NFL teams are playing at home. That crowd is crazy. Russell Wilson has never lost there. Their defense plays at a pitch level. And okay, you can bring up the Dolphins and the Titans, or the Bucks in the Titans.

The Seahawks obviously did not take those teams seriously. a big team comes in there, they get beat down. And I think your antenna should go up anytime Twitter turns into a chorus of NFL people singing in unison that something has to happen. Because it never happens. It's not smart. It's not smart to all agree on everything.

How many times do we have to see this happen? The Patriots beat the Jets 45 to 3 in the same week, week 13 of 2010, and the Jets, Let's go back into New England, win the playoffs. The Cardinals were embarrassed on Thursday night football by the Philadelphia Eagles. A few weeks later, NFC Championship, Cardinals take care of them. Last year, the Baltimore Ravens were embarrassed in Baltimore by Denver. In the playoffs, they go back to beat Denver.

We see this every year that you just can't start making assumptions in the beginning of December. No, you're in on that front, I don't take that away from you because you're right. History tells us that a lot of times what we expect, to happen in the playoffs, the opposite does. But, like, for instance, Jets, Patriots, two division teams that know each other so well back then, okay? But no one thought that back then. They thought it was a joke.

I just don't see a Niners team right now. I think the Niners may be the second, I don't know, they're right there with Carolina. They're going to be dangerous in the playoffs. I wouldn't want to deal with them. But I just look at Seattle, complete team on all fronts. I think we're going to have a different conversation, a week. from now after the 49ers get a home win over the Seahawks and then we're thinking and maybe the Panthers beat the Saints or something, you know, a lot of crazy things can happen.

And these are defensive teams. You have to admit that that the 49ers and the Panthers are defensive teams that can keep their, they can keep it close. Let's see. And then anything happens. They're running teams. They're kind of similar. It's interesting that those three teams, not the Saints, but those three teams are probably

we think three of the best teams are very similar. in the NFC. Well, Carol said... Thank you, Crystal. Carol said, Pete Carroll said earlier in the year when he was talking about the Panthers that they did, they kind of reminded him of his own team.

So if you had, first of all, if you, I guess I know this answer for Mark. How about Chris? If you could take the field or Seattle in the NFC, what are you taking? I'm taking Seattle, but I don't think it's ridiculous to say that a team could go up there and beat them.

I just think the odds are in their favor. I'm taking the field. Just, I guess, to be a contrary. I think, because I think history shows us that can happen. And then rape this statement from Dan. I feel bad for picking on him, but not that bad since he's not here. Prepare for the first Super Bowl blowout in a wild world. It is coming.

I don't understand how people are writing off the Broncos. And to a certain extent, the Patriots, who are playing on offense the last five weeks as well as anyone. The Broncos are a great team, not just a good team. They're a great team. And I don't understand why it's a given that the Seahawks would beat them by a lot. You know what team we haven't even mentioned, Crystal, in this NFC discussion? One of the only three teams in the league to have a winning streak over two games. I'm waiting for it.

The Philadelphia Eagles. Maybe they could do something. Ooh. Not even Seduction Friday yet. So if we had to take to wrap this NFC talk up, if we had to take another team, if you were forced to pick another team other than Seattle that could go into Seattle. I agree they'll have home field. What team do you think it would be that could do it?

Let me say first that if the field wins, Greg, and you win this essentially this bet, I will cook you a pot of baked beans. Is that good? Sure. That would be a gift for me. Big beans. I don't really like, I don't mind baked beans.

It's not about you choosing what I would make for you. I, it's what I, I've just scanned mentally my closet at home, and I have, I know there's a thing of Big Beans have been there since, like, 2009. Yeah. So that's coming your way. Crystal's excited about this because she always wants cooking segments. I do want cooking segments. And you guys know exactly what I'm waiting for.

Will Chris Wesley eat his softball pants? That's true because, well, this bet will be, or this disagreement will be settled well after we know the fate of the softball pants. But yeah, the baked beans could be a nice side dish with softball. My second team would be the Panthers. All right. I'm taking the 49ers, and I feel pretty comfortable that they are the second strongest team right now. I trust their coaching staff. Even though I think Riverboat Ron deserves coach of the year,

I trust Harbaugh and Greg Roman, and now with Crabtree back. The fact that they can't concentrate on stopping Vernon Davis and Anquan Bolden is huge, in my opinion. It's not a small thing. we saw throughout most of the first half that their receivers couldn't separate from coverage from man coverage and now you have Crabtree taking some defensive attention away that opens up their entire offense I really like what the 49ers have going on right now and they've played better on offense last two weeks I mean this week is going to be such a great test it's a great slate of games this week I guess I would take the Panthers if I had to choose

but the reason why I feel good about going against you guys on this one is that I think there are so many good teams in the NFC It's a totally different story than the other conference. NFC has some interesting stuff going on, so we'll see. All right. Crystal, I think you know what time it is. Got a lot. Kay wish of the head lads.

What up, boys? That's my best Dan Candace impression since he's not here today. That's good. All right, starting off. Number one, Pittsburgh Steelers head coach, Mike Tomlin is fined $100,000 for his little sideline stunt, and it could affect his draft pick for next year. Assuming he's the head coach still next year, which I know Wes cannot get enough of this narrative.

Yeah, let's hear it. Let's hear it from you, Wes. Well, it's preposterous that they would lose a draft pick over this. I think the fine is fair. Whatever. Tomlin doesn't care. I thought he handled the press conference yesterday as well as anyone could possibly handle. Well, he cares.

He just lost $100,000. What is that in our world, like $14? I love how people say that. Oh, that's only $100,000. Give me a break. It's $100,000, man. I wasn't making a statement. I was actually asking for someone to calculate.

You throw my salary compared to Tomlons. This is about $14.75. He doesn't care. Well, let's do the math. He makes, what, $3, $5 million a year maybe? $100,000 is still, what is that? Let's do the math there. It's like if a window broke at his house.

He might have to wait one more pay. check to get it fixed or something. That's like 2% of your salary. That's a fairly significant amount. If someone took away 2% of your salary, I don't think Simone and the kids would be too happy. If I didn't be eating. If I did something on par with what Tomlin did, then I would fork over the money and say lesson learned. My fault. He did do a good job in that presser. I thought that, listen, he answered something like 23 questions and he spoke for over 20 minutes. And he's not normally one to answer questions. No. He picks and choose what he wants to answer usually. Well, I think there's no more powerful owner in the league in terms of their connection with the league office

than Art Rooney and the entire Rooney family. And I think that's a situation where they talk to Tomlin and tell them, hey, look, this is what we're looking for out of you and he's being a good employee. I think Breer made a good point. Was that potentially it was what conditional draft picks that could get whacked or won, if any? Yeah, so the story or the announcement from the league

is that the Steelers could potentially lose a draft pick or be punished in some way, but they're going to wait for the draft order to be announced for that to happen. There's a few things that could happen here. Maybe it'll be a late-round pick. Maybe it'll be a compensatory pick or be part of that equation. Or maybe they're just kind of hanging this over Tomlin and the Steelers and making sure nothing goofy happens the rest of the way

and reserving the right to punish them. They've already given their third-round pick to Cleveland. Crystal, what else we got? All right. Next up. But Flynn takes the starter's snaps at the Packers practice and Aaron Rogers. It's still not clear. Sad for my fantasy team. Sad for a lot of, sad for my preseason Super Bowl pick, which was the Green Bay Packers.

I was feeling good about it, too, until he got hurt. It is sad, isn't it? They have the Falcons this week. It's sad because we have to watch Matt Flynn again. That's where I'm at. Rogers was not cleared, and he had a meeting with doctors on Tuesday. And he told reporters, you know, we won't know the answer until the end of the week. But Mike McCarthy, their coach, said something interesting that Rogers isn't going to have any more test this week.

So if he's not having any more tests and he hasn't been cleared, they've told us for sure Matt Flynn is the starter this week against the Falcons. Well, and Roger said he didn't want this to come into some game time decision that would mess with Flynn's preparation. and I'm not quite sure that anything could cause Matt Flynn to be less effective than he was last game. But this whole thing about if they would potentially shut him down, if they lose this game, I don't think that's a terrible idea. Am I wrong there? There are 16 games on the schedule.

Play your 16 games. I hate this. It's the Bill Pullian thing with the Colts. Pack it in early. These games don't count. Play for next year. Well, unless he's not. There's 16 games.

Play them all. But what if the thing is, if they're going to make a push, he's going to play not at 100% but if you're out of the playoff picture get your star player healthy. They're not going to let him play until it's safe to play. Exactly. If it's safe to play then he should play.

This isn't like a torn knee ligament where there's some shades of gray. I think if they clear, they're going to be very careful so I think if they feel confident he can play without getting hurt, they'll put him out there. And we're kind of writing off the Packers right now but not if they win this Sunday.

We don't know that right. Rogers is out for the season. It feels like maybe he won't be back, but if they can just get this win at home against the terrible team, then it keeps them alive for another week for Rogers to possibly return. If they can't, are they already a team that probably shouldn't be talking about the playoffs at this point? I mean, I understand that one player changes everything to some degree, but lose to the

Falcons at home? It can't be any more embarrassing than what happened on Thanksgiving. That was the worst. I've seen any team play all year. a part of this podcast last week, but I listened to it. Let the record show that Mark Sessler was absolutely right about Matt Flynn. This is a quarterback who had an 85-mile-an-hour fastball coming into the league. It's now about 80 after his elbow injuries.

You could see that he doesn't have the arm to win in the NFL. Something's not there. Okay, Rich. All right, guys, last up. Bears GM, Phil Emery, doesn't sound too keen on using the franchise test. That doesn't bode well for Jay Cutler getting the franchise number next year, which will probably be $16 million or more. Does this surprise you guys at all? It does, but in a way he can say whatever he wants in December.

He doesn't have to make any decisions yet. It will be a lot more telling if the deadline comes and he doesn't use the franchise tag. To me, that decreases any potential he would have, any bargaining power he's. he would have to possibly trade Jay Cutler. And our NFL media columnist, Mike Silver, reported a month ago that it's quite possible that Mark Tressman isn't smitten with Jay Cutler as his long-term answer, that they still are not happy that his mechanics are a mess, that maybe Josh McCown can play every bit as well as Jay Cutler.

So I think it's an interesting, it's an interesting situation there. It's ever a coach that would have an argument for drafting or bringing in a quarterback that doesn't have issues with his mechanics. A guy that can, you know, Tressman could take someone, build them from the ground up. And we've seen what we, McCown was dead weight before Tresman showed up. He wasn't even a good backup. No. He was lifeless. And I look at also with Cutler, and I know that, you know, injuries are freak injuries at times.

But this isn't a guy that consistently rattles off 16 games seasons either. Not in Chicago, at least. Is that an issue in terms of do we pay this guy sky high money? I think that has to be an issue. It's a good point. Two different injuries this year. You know what this whole Tressman era has been bad for? Who it's been bad for?

Luke McCown. Because before, we didn't even know which McCown brother was which. They were just both, like you said, these guys. And now it's like Luke is a joke and Josh is the man. It's got to make family gatherings. if it wasn't already uncomfortable that you both essentially failed at your respected careers

now one has taken off and the others just still Luke McCown potential future insurance salesman Do you think they go to family functions like everybody's in one car in one McLeon car? Yeah I think Mr. McCown and Mr. McCown are in the front seat

and Luke and Josh are in the back probably at you know arguing 12 McLeowns come out of a McLeod car how dare you say they failed two guys. You're right. They are up in the hills of Louisiana just hoping for a chance,

both make an NFL roster. By the way, I have no idea where they grew up. I think that's right. Luke McCown is the reason we have Blaine Gabbardt. Now, this is a true story that your son Colton

is at least partially inspired by Colt McCoy. That is fair. Why didn't you name your second son, Brandon? Now, Luke, well, your son, Luke, he is not named after Luke McCown is that that is correct okay

just making sure was Luke McCown on the Browns at one point I feel like he might A McCown brother was and I believe it was Luke All right I think dark time Weed and Sessler has a nice ring here The day after we named Colton Colton The day was born was the draft

And Brandon Ween was drafted that night So I don't No longer attach Colt McCoy to my son's name at this point I would not tell I feel like that's information maybe you keep to yourself. I mean, in terms of telling cold. Well, until you just told, you know, thousands of people on an NFL.com podcast. He'll never hear that podcast.

But the whole Whedon thing, it's kind of like, you don't want your mom telling you that you were a mistake. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. I would not want to hear that from my mom. I'm just saying it's kind of like that. I don't know if you want to hear that you were named after a guy in the same day they drafted.

Well, I will say my wife was had major reservations about the concept of naming an offspring off of anyone on the Browns and she you know we love the name and everything but that that heritage story is quickly going away you know my youngest brother's name is Achille Achille Wesleying for Achilles Smith good heavens I get to have you're kidding he's going to say that is by far worse all right this is what happens when Dan doesn't host the show we just veer so far off the tracks with the five-minute McCown conversation I'm excited for this time for my new favorite segment it's the first time we're doing this segment and to start it off we're going to bring in a new guest the around the league producer from the NFL network Michael

Berger hi guys how you doing I'm great it's a true honor and a privilege to be here well you came up with this idea for a segment so we figured I'm a producer I hope I came up with something right so we figured have you on and you know and not a lot of people know this but there's actually a television show named after our podcast, the Around the League podcast. Is that right? Such a big hit up here that you guys just decided we should put this on TV and try to capitalize on some of our name brand. How is that going for you?

It's going great. It's sort of a chicken of the egg, which came first. I think we, well, either way, it's a good franchise that we've all sort of created here. And it's going great. For those who don't know, by the way, the Around the League television version is on the air from 3 to 5 Pacific or 6 to 8 in the east. Every day, well, not every day. Monday, it's on at 6 Eastern, and then Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday, it's on from 6 to 8 Eastern.

Look at this synergy. Our bosses are going to be excited. Isn't everybody excited about this? And we're on a little earlier on Thursdays because of Thursday night football coverage. We're on the air two Eastern on Thursdays with Andrew Ceciliano and Lindsay Rhodes, taking you all around the league, all 32 teams, you know, our reporters in the field, some analysis, breaking news. It's really, if you don't watch, you should watch. You should watch. It really is kind of like the television version on our site.

We're trying to pound out lots of stories all day. They're getting these stories ready. And we sit next to these guys all along. Talk about synergy. I mean, we are just, this is the brain trust of NFL network right here. Right. We sit next to Lindsay, the talented Lindsay Rhodes. The TV zone.

We call her TV's own, Lindsay Rhodes. The ineffable Andrew Siciliano. Absolutely. Just reads the, so we all sit together at work. So we're all in the mix. So this was a long time. This is a long time coming. It was a long time coming, and I was joking, of course.

The show has been around, I think, for five or six. It's been around for a lot of years. Yeah, we were clearly named after that property. Right, the blog, the podcast, both named after that. But let's get into the game. It's who do you trust? I think it's self-explanatory. Well, actually, can you explain it to me?

I'm not really sure how it. Nick Fools, Matthew Stafford. We're in week 14. These two guys are going to face off this weekend. Which quarterback? Do you trust more? Do I trust to do what? Succeed.

What else are you going to take? Okay, well, no. I mean, I could... Well, in a playoff game. How about that? Mark was very concerned whether this is Matthew Stafford and Nick Foles in a vacuum or on their current teams. It's like, you're looking too deep into it. On their teams.

On their teams. All right. I will go first. I go right now, Foles. Guys thrown our producer, not a closet Eagles fan, just overt with her Eagles. love. Foles has not thrown an interception. He's thrown a pile of touchdowns. Stafford, I love

what the lions can do. They're explosive, but then they turn around. They lost to, what, the Bucks and the Steelers back to back. Very weird team. But we're not talking just team. We're talking quarterback. I, listen, Foles has, I think people are cautious to

look at what Foles does done and say, yeah, he's got it, but you know what? He's done it week after week. I'm going Foles. I'm going Stafford. You know, I remember what Foles did in the game. I forget which game it was, but he came in for Vic. He had a great game. And then he had the game.

I think it was Cowboys game where he literally couldn't complete a past five yards down the field. That was one bad game. Right. But since then, you know, is it, we were talking in the newsroom yesterday, is this Nick Foles or is this a product of Chip Kelly's system? I mean, you have guys that are wide open down the field. You know, I would like to think any of us could, complete some of these throws and you just you just have to wonder at some point are the law of

average going to catch up to nick foals as far as staffer is concerned yeah he's had turnover issues the last few weeks and yes you know he does the weird sidearm you know you make some throws and you wonder what the heck's you doing out there but i think we've seen enough from him now he's all the injury issues are are behind him and you've seen enough from him now where you know that if you need to make i mean i go back to the cowboys game you need to make a throw in a tight window whether it's the calvin or you know getting eight burleson back was big i think that to me, I'm putting my money on Stafford in a big game, in a tight game in the fourth quarter. I'm having trouble separating quarterbacks from offense.

And I am too, and I am too. But the simple answer for me is Matthew Stafford's the better player, so I trust him more. Well, I think that's why I asked about the vacuum thing, because if I had to start a team with one of the two... Where is this vacuum that you speak of? It's in someone's garage collecting dust. I would go Stafford as a core quarterback. No, but I'm talking about in the... You can't separate Foles from the system.

You could say it's all the system you want, but that's the system he's in. We're talking this year, this team, this offense, which guy are you trusting more? That's what I'm saying. I just can't imagine Nick Foles is going to go to the rest of the year and not throw an interception. And not that Stafford won't throw an interception either. I just think, I think Foles has to come back to the mean at some point. And I just, you don't, there's not enough of a sample size to, you know what you have with Matthew Stafford. He's a top eight quarterback in the NFL with a load of talent and weapons around him.

and you don't know, despite the amazing run he's been on, you don't know what you have yet with Nick Foles. Has Foles done anything like what Stafford did against the Cowboys? No. Right. No, he hasn't proven. He's made some impressive throws. He hasn't come back and taken a team in the final minutes

and put him on his back like Stafford has. People talk about him, though, like he's Alex Smith, just dinking and dunking out there. Don't be smart as Alex Smith in front of Michael Berger. Well, let's get to that. We'll get to that. Actually, yeah, let's get to that now. I'm taking Stafford, by the way. He can make...

I mean, just because Foles, he hasn't done it long enough. And I also think it's not just the offense factor. I mean, it's the fact that Stafford, I don't know, when you watch him, he can do anything on the field. And we've seen with all the rookie quarterbacks,

they usually come back to the pack in the second year. I still trust Stafford more. But let's go to Alex Smith, because he's been a topic of conversation lately. Who would do you trust more, Michael Berger? Alex Smith or the guy who took his job, Colin Kaepernick. Well, this came up earlier in the newsroom, and it sounded like they were going to take away my security badge for even suggesting that I would take Alex Smith over Colin Kaepammerth. But listen, I brought some numbers.

I'm not just going to talk up here like, you know, just on my soapbox here. I come prepared. So here we go. So if you look at their numbers this season, okay, Alex Smith has the better completion percentage, more pass yards per game, more. more touchdowns, less interceptions, and he runs for 30 yards a game while Kaepernick runs for 31. Their rushing totals are almost exactly the same.

Kaepernick does have the better passer rating. But I just think you don't, Alex Smith, in a playoff game, I want the guy, yeah, you want the guy like Kaepernick who's dynamic and who can make plays and who can, as we saw last year against the Packers and, you know, as they went on their run. Who took his team to the Super Bowl?

Exactly, yeah. You want that in the playoffs. do want that but I have seen I have watched he was pretty good but he hasn't been that guy I think we don't agree he has not been that guy this year because they took those weapons away now they're coming back well okay crap we don't know you don't know what you have with michael crabtree yet you just don't and I think if you if you look at which off just the two offenses have has the Niners offense been you know the greatest show on turf have they been markedly in fact both teams are averaging exactly 24.8 points were

game the scene. So it's not like Kaepernick and the Niners are lighting the world on fire offensively. In fact, they're just kind of get their legs under them. And for a while, Kaepernick had a stretch where he couldn't complete a ball, you know, five yards down the field. Here's where I start and end with this, and it won't take long to explain. Jim Harbaugh, Greg Roman, two of the best quarterback teachers out there spent ages watching both these guys practice. Their conclusion is the one I agree with. Listen, long term, I mean, Kaepernick is the obvious hand. I'm not, no one's going to say that If you're building a franchise, you'd rather have Alex Smith and Collar and Campaic.

But I think in the playoffs, right now in the playoffs, to get the plays made down the stretch, not make a mistake, not try to do too much. Kaepernick has been prone this year to making one read and then just running or doing something, throwing out of bounds, getting sacked. I'll take Alex Smith. He's not going to give you the big wow plays, but he will make the plays you need to get a win in the playoffs. Let's go beyond Harbaugh and Roman, who are possibly that's. two best quarterback minds in the NFL. Let's throw in Andy Reid, too. So you have three of the best quarterback

brines in the NFL. Game film tells us we don't trust Alex Smith's arm. We don't trust him to make plays. We're not even going to let him test his arm down the field. What about the last couple weeks? For the last couple weeks, and they have no wins to show for it. They've been playing great on offense, so we can't base it on wins.

Alex Smith, two and 26 in his career when the other team scores 25 points. That tells you all you need to know about Alex Smith. He is who he is. And three of the smartest offensive coaches in the NFL know who he is, and they don't trust him to throw. I hate wins as an argument for any quarterback, because if that's your argument, that's for Alex Smith.

Well, we're talking about what Matthew Stapford does against the Cowboys, right? Let's have some numbers. They don't trust his arm because his 6.2 yards per attempt figure is the lowest of any starter in the NFL. He has more passes, more of his attempts have come under 10 yards than any quarterback in the NFL. He doesn't trust his arm. His coaches don't trust his arm. And that's, look, if you want to win a regular season game, go with Alex Smith.

If you want to win a postseason game against a good team, you're going to need a quarterback who actually does things more than hand the ball off to Jamal Charles and scamper once in a while. It's an interesting question. Who do you trust? Because you know who Alex Smith is. I don't know who Colin Kaepernick is this year. It changes week to week. I would take Colin...

He's the same quarterback he was last year. I disagree with you, Berger. I take Kaepernick. I take him today, tomorrow, in the playoffs, anytime, forever. But trust-wise, you're not sure what's going to show up week-to-week. He has been a match-up quarterback. When they have the right game plan and they dial up the right place, he's looked great this year, and he makes five throws every week that Alex Smith could dream of.

I trust that Alex Smith is going to win 10 regular season games and lose a playoff game. Right. And he only wins those games because he's on a good team. same quarterback he was last year. He didn't have a healthy crab tree. Vernon Davis has been in and out of the lineup. He had Kyle Williams starting for half the year. And an injured Mario Manningham started.

These guys can't separate. You can't, it's the same thing with Griffin. You can't ask these guys to do what they did last year when the surrounding parts aren't the same. But the leagues caught up with them a little bit too because I think the scheme and Kaepernick's running ability opened up a lot of big plays last year that haven't been there this year.

Maybe it's the run game. Kaepernick's been a bad runner this year, too. I think that gets lost. He's been a bad thrower for a lot of the years. I mean, let's not, listen, he's not the same guy that he was last year. He is the same guy. He's the same quarterback. The difference is he's not been as big a threat running.

You have to admit that he makes bad decisions. He leaves the pocket too early. He hasn't picked up a lot of first downs. There's a lot of five-yard runs on third and 13 when he hasn't been pressured that much. So I think he has stepped back just a little bit, but I'd still take him over, Alex Smith. Come on. All right, let's move on.

I tried, I tried. You know, what are you going to do? Valiant attempt. Berger's a Bengals fan, and he has stuck with him over time. Condolence. Yeah, well, listen, I mean, you've got a Browns fan here, you know, I'm just... Unlike... And a former Bengals fan.

Right, exactly. Yeah, Chris Leslie... I like to say recovering Bengals fan. He pretends that he's not a Bengals fan. Don't pretend anything. We've got a big game this weekend. In theory, it should be a big game, but it doesn't feel like one. Colts Bengals, they've both had their struggles recently.

Which team do you trust more, right? now, the Colts or the Bengals? Let's start with the recovering Bengals fan. It pains me to say this. The Colts are such a bad team right now that I trust the Andy Dalton-led Bengals more than the Colts. I mean, if it's which team do you trust right now? It's the Bengals by a long, I mean, no one who has watched the Colts for the last

month will put any stock in what they're doing on either side of the ball, by the way. I mean, when you're down 24-3 at halftime every week, that's not one week fine, two weeks fine five weeks in a row there's something going on there and clearly they have not been the same team i don't want to put it all on reggie wayne because i i can't imagine that one player has that big an impact on what a team does offensively but they can't run the ball i mean donald brown has been okay but trent has been an unmitigated disaster i think we'd all agree and when you can't do they can't do they have nobody who can win on the edge t y hilton occasionally but he's in the slot and you can't put him out on the edge and have him you know beat guys one-on-one one

Kobe Fleener has been nice, but that's kind of all they have left. Darius Harrod Bay is an unmitigated disaster. They can't even play them anymore. They're now playing Derek Rogers or D'Rick. I don't know how he pronounced it. Derek. Who they just signed off. There's an apostrophe in there somewhere.

Levin, Brazil. They need Brazil and Rogers to step up. That's how bad. That's their playoff. Mark, do you disagree? It pains me because, like, when I see a team with a quarterback like Andrew Luck and what he's done already, it's hard for me not to want to just. side with that, but...

I know, we're taking the Dalton team over the luck team. Well, and it pains me on their flip side because, in no offense to the reformer and current Bengals fan, but Andy Dalton, to me, is one of the most uninspiring signal callers you could possibly dream up, and yet the Bengals are the team I would trust to go deeper this season. Yeah, and I think it also, you've got to go defensively here, too. I mean, the Bengals, it's amazing what they've done. No Geno Atkins, no Leon Hall. It hasn't changed for them.

Right. I mean, I was at the Bengals Chargers game on Sunday, and the Chargers moved the ball on everybody. Don't you have to work on Sunday? Listen, I pulled a few strings. But, I mean, the Charters move the ball on everybody. I mean, they march up and down the field. They may not always get in the Enzo, but they are Philip Rivers, and that offense moves the ball. And they could not move the ball at all on Sunday against the Bengals.

If you asked me on the Saturday that the Bengals will play, because this is a holiday. They have to play in the Saturday game in the playoffs. And they're playing against the Colts deck game, which probably can't happen. It's not going to happen. That'll be the three and four. In another perfect universe. If you ask me, okay, you will lose your job if you pick this game wrong. I would say Andrew Luck will find a way to win it.

See? Well, and this gets back. I mean, this gets back to a sort of a, you know, a referendum on Andy Dalton. Well, who do we trust? Do we trust Andy Dalton? We had a conversation earlier that the after Dalton scale that Chris Wesleyan came up with, Basically that... It's genius. It's absolutely genius.

If you're an answer, if you're the future for your franchise at quarterback, you're better than Andy Dalton. And anyone that's after Andy Dalton is not an answer. It's not an answer. And so that's the dividing line. He's the prime meridian of NFL quarterbacks. Right. Yeah. And I was thinking, I don't know after this year if the scale is going to work because I'm getting to the point I have my answer on Andy Dalton.

But do you... I think he's not the answer. Here's the thing. We know it. We know it. Okay. Here, he is, this is, he is almost, you know, two, two and three quarters of the way through his third season, okay? Is that, do you honestly feel, and the answer may be, yeah, you're crazy, that that is enough time to say, you don't think that there's a, there's a, I'm, listen, there are three guys in NFL history, two guys who have thrown over 3,000 yards in the first two seasons, Peyton Manning and Andy Dalton, okay?

Now, now I know that's an inflated stat and yardage totals don't really matter, but they're, Andy Dalton, if you look at over his first, now, what is it, 43 games, whatever it is. You know, the numbers are on par with a lot of guys who didn't really blossom until their fourth, you know, Joe Flackos of the world, people like that. The numbers are close to what a lot of these guys... The difference is that a lot of people thought that Dalton was who he was when he entered the league

because he doesn't have physical gifts. Right. That is the difference. But he'll tease you. He'll have months like he did in October where he literally, you know, looked like Joe Montana. And so that's, that's, and it's the worst possible scenario for a franchise because you can't get away from it, but you also know that you're probably not going to win with this guy as your quarterback.

That's why the scale is so perfect. But if the answer is that you're convinced he's going to stay the 20th best starting quarterback in the league, which I'm kind of convinced that at this point. I mean, he was awful in September. He's sealed in November. He's hit his ceiling. If you believe that, then we might have to change the scale after the season. You've heard of a quarterback holding his offense hostage.

Gino Smith is doing that right now. Andy Dalton is holding his organization hostage. No question. Not the offense. If you decide he's your quarterback, that's a position that you can't upgrade then. You're stuck as a mediocre team. It's an institutional nightmare for them. I say give another guy a shot, too, just to be in the middle.

I mean, if you threw Cam Newton or Russell Wilson or even, I'm trying to think of an, even Jay Cutler on the Bengals, I think they might be going to be going to be. Again, again, this is the question that comes up all the time. If you get rid of Dalton, who's going to be. Well, you don't get rid of them. You just try to find another option and see what happens. Well, let me say it from the other Ohio team. Having Dalton versus the train wreck of trying to find someone is better. But as long as they aren't committed to him long term and being willing to draft and play other guys.

Because that is a talented team that it's like, wow, you cannot buy them because of the quarterback. That's really rough. All right. Let's move on to the next one. Seattle Seahawks defense or Panthers defense, we obviously trust both of these groups, but if you had to choose one... This is the toughest one you've posed yet for me. I think, can we say if the Seahawks are playing at home?

Sure, there's no rules. If the Seahawks are playing at home, I would take their defense over any teams. I mean, I just... How about let's say at a neutral field? What about on a high school field in the middle of Iowa? Charles Johnson's healthy? In the high school field, in a vacuum in Iowa. Charles Johnson is healthy?

Yeah, sure. This is a little bit tricky because we just saw the Seahawks come off a just a mind-boggling defensive performance. Hey, the Panthers just smacked around Mike Lennon, the next greatest rookie quarterback ever. I feel like the deciding factor for me is the Seahawks have beaten better offenses than the Panthers have. I'm going to go with the Seahawks, too, and I just think, you know, You go with, they have, I don't, the, the, the, the, the, the, Panthers clearly are fundamentally sound at all three levels, and they have guys that can make plays in the front four on the back end, but I, there are legitimate superstars on the Seahawks defense that when you need a play, you know, it's going to get made from Richard Sherman, you know that, you know, somebody in that front four is going to get pressure up the middle, Cliff April's having a nice year quietly, you know, I just think that that's, I'm going with what I, the known quantity for me right now, and we've seen it the last, few years of the Seahawks. We haven't seen it from the Panthers. Obviously they've done a great job and they've built

that. We had Charlie Cashley on the around the league show yesterday and he talked about how that defense was built almost exclusively through the draft. I mean, they have just brought in these guys that have fit in that system perfectly. But I mean, I think it's hard to pick against the Seahawks. Well, and I would go, listen today I'd go Seattle, but

Carolina, another defense that's built through the draft and they've done an outstanding job bringing in town over the last couple seasons. I don't think we've seen Carolina anywhere near It's best on defense. I'm taking Carolina for the same, one of the same reasons that you took Seattle is that top tier talent, you need someone to make a play to win the game.

Charles Johnson, Greg Hardy, Starr, Lolae-Laylor, Kowon Shorts. Thomas Davis. I'm taking those guys, Luke Keeckley. I'm taking those guys over all the Seattle guys. Seattle, I think, has a lot of talent, but it's a little more about scheme. Carolina and Riverboat, Ron, they're just nasty. Is it possible that Kikley doesn't get a. enough, I mean, he is, he has almost single-handedly turn that defense.

I mean, they, I mean, yes, they've gotten a lot better in the draft and they've obviously played well. But, I mean, people who talk, you know, when we talk about that team, and people who know that team say that he has almost single-handedly turn that he has almost single-handedly turned into his own unit. Yeah, I saw a stat a month ago that they were 26th in the NFL over the 20 previous games before drafting Keekeley and second in the NFL after drafting him. Right.

That's incredible turn around. If I may pose a question for all of our tweeters out there, who always want to hear fantasy, if you have the Panthers defense and the Seahawks defense on your fantasy team, are you playing the matchup, or are you sticking with the Hawks, or are you sticking with the Panthers?

I think you've got to go matchup. I go matchup, but we'll let the Twitter followers maybe jump in and say who you would play this week. Last one, quickly, Gino Smith or Matt McLeoyne. Who do you trust? Quick answers. How do you not, whoever it's Gino Smith,

it could be Gino Smith, and, you know, Babe Lofenberg. I'm picking... Lofenberg's got a good arm. I'm picking anybody not named Gino Smith at this point. I think McLevin is the better quarterback right now, but I pick the Jets to win this game for obvious reasons. Oh, you just don't want to eat your softball pants.

I don't want to eat my softball pants, but I feel like this is not good to have Gino Smith. We watch Around the League show every day. It's clear Burger never listens to the Around the League podcast. America's favorite bet in game and... Running gag right now is will Chris Wesseling eat his softball pants? Will Chris Wesseling eat his softball pants? Chris Wesseling said before the season, if the Raiders get to six wins, he will eat his softball pants.

They're at four right now. This is a big week. This is a huge one for you. They have to get this because I think it's over if they don't get the win. I was rooting for Matt Sims to start. Wow. What did I walk into? I'm taking McLeon.

All right. Before we leave, we're going to go to a. Another quick segment that I love to get to, because Chris Wesleyan, you know, he doesn't have a family. He doesn't start there. He doesn't. There's no kids. You're doing well, girl.

He was a waiver gentleman. Little do the listeners know that I also live under a bridge in a van down by the river? He has a mild drinking problem. But what he really has is a love for game. For game rewind and NFL shortcuts and all the ways. watch football all day long. So we call this segment what Wes is watching

and I know you've been watching a little bit of the Patriots lately. I have. I was really impressed. Brady made some throws against the Texans. Three throws in particular to Grankowski, Edelman, and Verene I think that I just thought

no other quarterback is making these throws. I also noticed this is going to send odd, but Julian Edelman is one of the most athletic players in the NFL. Why is that odd? Isn't he like the best punt return in NFL history or something? That punt return in NFL history? That diving. play into the end zone. You just don't picture

him as he's a former college quarterback. You don't dominate the Mac like he did and not be a phenomenal athlete. Well, unless your name is Josh Chris. Exactly. Yeah, and he's the leading receiver on the team this year. I think that's kind of, nobody expected that. Making the leap except Greene. Candidate, Julian Edelman. We had it. We had it before the

season. So to peel back the veil, all you have to do on this show is to pitch Greg a segment that speaks positively about the Patriots and it's like, yep, we'll tack that in, no problem. Yeah, I was talking to Chris yesterday because I do this quarterback index each week and every four or five weeks we do a complete rankings one to 32 and it was tough to rank brady because the first seven or eight weeks you had him

low early on he struggled right but the last five weeks i think he's been as good as he was higher than the quarterback you just simply called brown's quarterback yes there is that like a tech mobile like it basically is like we don't have a license we don't have the licensing rights for this team and for a good reason there is no brandon weeden definitely anymore there's no hoyer there's no campbell there's definitely no alex tanny there is is just Brown's quarterback. You know what happened five weeks ago? Grunk came back.

Oh, imagine that. Yeah, and we did, we wrote an article in the off season that Tom Brady statistically last year was Andy Rogers with, or Aaron Rogers with Gronk on the field, and Andy Dalton without him on the field. Oh, I forgot the link to that. Yeah. And it's no coincidence. I saw Bob Ryan compared, Gronkowski said that, he said that Grancowski is better now than

Tony Gonzalez was in his prime. And I can't disagree with that. That's frightening. He changes everything about their offense in terms of how defenses have to attack. He has the tight ends what Dan Marino was in the 80s to quarterbacks and what Dickerson was. He rewrites what you're supposed to do

in your first three or four leagues in the year, or four years in the league. He's just re-rere-like, his tight-end stats are incredible compared to anyone who's ever played the game. And, you know, Greg said at some point, like a month ago, I think Gronks actually more athletic this year. I think he is. He looks different this year in terms of his speed.

speed and jumping ability and all that. He couldn't solve simple math equations, but that doesn't matter because he makes place. Cardinals wide receiver group. Who's the best wide receiver? How good is Michael Floyd been? Michael Floyd is playing better than Larry Fitzgerald. Oh, by far.

Here's a stat that Mark will love. Over the last three weeks, only one receiver in the NFL has more yards than Michael Floyd and it's Josh Gordon by 225 yards. All gone to waste. Nobody's even close to Josh Gordon. I watched a fair amount of the Cardinal. Eagles game on Sunday. I said to my brother, I said, Michael Floyd is a

legitimate NFL receiver all of a sudden. He looks quicker with the ball in his hands than I thought he would. He's a number one receiver. Absolutely. I think you know, Ariens last year with Reggie Wayne in Indianapolis did an amazing job reviving Wayne. People didn't want Wayne. He does an excellent job coaching receivers

and I think Floyd is the beneficiary of that. Speaking of receivers, Alshan Jeffrey had one of the best games I've ever seen by a wide receiver. Making catches over the middle, diving for ball. That touchdown that now everyone's seen, another 80-yard touchdown where he outracing. This guy was supposed to be slow coming into league. A fat slow guy.

That's true. He's outracing the defense. Brandon Marshall said at the beginning of the year that Alshon Jeffrey will rewrite all the Bears' records, which sounded silly at the time because Brandon Marshall will have all the Bears' records. I think he's right. And I think that's... Then again, Marty Booker has the records right now, so it's not like a great book.

That's a big testament to Mark Trassman. I mean, that just getting the ball out of the baseball. hands quickly, whether it's Cutler or McCown, Jeffrey could win on the outside like that, and that's just, I mean, he's... You're right, though, he was, he had the rep as being fat and slow. Well, and I think we've learned this season, a lot of things, that this chatter that's going to bubble up around some of these

prospects that just get washed down the river with negative talk. I'm not listening to any... Tommy Badger. Come in and play, and we'll see how we'll judge you then. All right, before we take off, we got to mention, there is a game on Thursday night. Hold on one last thing. Oh, what do you got now? Ryan Matthews.

Oh, that's, I like Ryan Matthews. You like Ryan Matthews? Oh, yeah. Out of every player in the NFL, he's the exact opposite of what his reputation was supposed to be coming into the season. He was supposed to be soft, couldn't take a hit. He runs like a battering ram. Yeah. He's the exact opposite of what everyone thought he was going to be.

The other player? His quarterback. Yeah. Well, I think with Matthews, it's just that he hasn't been able to stay on the field. For anyone that's ever, he's always run hard. I don't think that's changed. He's running harder maybe now and more effectively. They're also utilizing him a little bit differently.

They're not giving him 25 carries a game. And everything is between the tackles. Right. You're right, though. Another good offensive coach. This isn't, they don't put people in the Pro Bowl for this, but if there was a position in the Pro Bowl for first and second down running back, I think Ryan Matthews would be one of the top two or three running back. Is there a third down in the Pro Bowl?

I'm not sure I've ever seen that. Well, the new format this year, I don't know what's going on. All right. As I mentioned, there is a Thursday night football game this week. Houston Texans, Jacksonville Jaguars, NFL Network, be there. we forked these teams, I believe, early September, it was a while ago, that we forked these teams. So they've been done a while. I think the only question really in this game is whether we think Chris's boy, Case Keenham, has any chance to be the quarterback there

and whether Houston is going to take a quarterback next year. Well, he's my boy. I still have faith in him, but I don't expect the Texans to go into next year with him as the starter because I think there'll be a new coach. and why would the new coach keep a guy who was a system fit for Kubiak and isn't known to have great physical tools? Oh, and by the way, if Jacksonville pulls this one off, they've won four of five. And the Texans probably get the number one pick,

in which case they will take a quarterback. Remember how close it was when the Texans won those first two games that they easily could have... They could easily be O'N 12 right now, by the way. They could have like six wins, though, too. Remember they were up 20 to 3 on the C-Hops? I think their spirit was broken along the way. I've heard people make the case that maybe Kubiak won't be fired.

I don't see that. That's insane. You have to sell him and everything else to your fan base. No team has packed it in more than this team. What about Rick Smith? Rick Smith keep his job? I think so. I think he's drafted pretty well.

He only has hired one head coach. They came in together, and he did pretty good. He's not the issue. Kubiak, got to go. And if Kubiak's gone, then Keenham. is essentially a non-factor just, you know, battling for snaps. Doesn't mean he's totally out of the mix, but they're not going to count on him. I'm not quite as fond of him as I was a month ago.

I think he's a great backup. He can get by. He can get by with him for three or four games. He could be better than that. He's going to say he's got more upside than Ryan Fitzpatrick. He's not a guy you're going to bring in the next year when he's shown that he can't really play well. He was like the good-looking girl at school that, like, you were way into, and then like two months later, you're like, I've moved on.

See, could that be Nick Fools in a couple of them? This is a problem I have with women. They can't read a blitz. They just don't understand the magic of West quite yet. Crystal's ears are perking up. They're ready to just go nuts. But I think she was satisfied with that one. Yeah, yeah.

We should go out on that. I'm laughing, and I think that's our exit. Yes. Friday, we will be back previewing all the games. Dan Hansis will be back in the chair, and we can't wait for him to be back. We're also going to potentially fork a team. We decided to push that off until Friday.

For a special reason. Yes, I think we'll be talking about, you know, Dan's team, potentially. We don't know that for sure. We've got to let Dan way in. The committee has not yet met. So we'll talk about that on Friday. We'll pick all the games. It's been a pleasure, Michael Berger, to have you.

Thank you. It's been the pleasure is all on this end of the table, and I hope maybe I can do this again sometime. Yeah, please watch around the league on NFL Network. I hope you're listening to me. Boss is out there. Me too, by the way. Boss is out there.

It's on. It's great. That's it for today's show. Please download. Tell your friends to subscribe. Give us good comments. I'm just going to shill. Dan doesn't do enough.

Let's just shill. Tell your friends. Burger. Can you download? Start downloading. I'm going to. But if the download rate, you know, there's a huge spike, I think we all know that this is, that was no accident, by the way. It's the burger.

Yeah, it's the burger effect. It's the burger bomb. For Michael Berger. and Mark Sessler, Chris Wesseling, K. Rich, behind the glass. Dan hands us in absentia, and Lyle, that piece of... Until Friday. I wouldn't want to be Mrs. Ryan after that game, forever. She must be a saint.

No pun intended. Welcome back to another edition of the NFL. Wait, what is it? Welcome back to the Roundley. The Roundley. Off to a fly. Start. Don't get any ideas, Crystal. This is an IHeart podcast.