NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL Daily 32: Ranking the Best Edge Rushers

Episode Date: May 21, 2026

Gregg Rosenthal and Ollie Connolly give you their top 32 edge rushers from across the NFL. Find out if anyone comes in before Myles Garrett, which teams get left of the list entirely, and who just makes the cut of NFL Daily's top 32 edge rushers.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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But it's so worth it. Visit bell.ca for more details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. It's a tough sport. It's not for everybody. You've got to be a little sick to love this game. And we've got some sickos. Welcome to NFL Daily, where Andrew Van Ginkle definitely qualifies as an edge. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm with Ollie Connolly. It's sicko season. That means ranking season. While other shows are doing quarterbacks in mid-May, we're going deep. Top 32, edge rushers.

That's right. It's the NFL Daily 32, our running segment, and our conversation before the show started was just making sure, Ali, that Van Ginkle counts as an edge rusher before we do this voting. You could take them first overall if you wanted. It's in play. It's certainly in play. I love me some Van Ginkle. I love doing this with you. I love spending my offseason having everyone call me a fool and a clown and all the things

I'm being called. As I remind people, this is a somewhat projection on where we see the league right now. Who would take sat here today for next season, not just a reflection on last season. I do think these rankings are really interesting. of what if I just said who had the best 2025 film plus numbers compared to a slight projection of what it would look like to 2026, who could be breakout plays, who are going to leap from one tier to the other, that was where I was having the panic attacks last night and the sleepless nights trying to put this thing together. It is a different ranking and that's why I ultimately

only care about the people that are listening, the people commenting on social, you know, they're not getting the full context, but it is a balance between how they feel. finished last year. That would be an interesting exercise too, just who was the best. I think you can give that sort of context when we're explaining the players, but also, yeah, a look forward of who we would want in 2026. And yes, at the edge position. So it's not three, four defensive ends. Rookies are eligible. And last time we did offensive lines. Previously, we did coaches. This is the first just like solo players. Rookies eligible, but a tough position to crack a top 32. list. So we'll see if a rookie even makes this list. Without any further ado, I'm going to give you

the first overall pick, Ali. I'm feeling generous today. You're such a gentleman. With the first overall pick, I will take Miles Garrett from the Cleveland Browns, who is, I think, quite clearly, quite comfortably the most dominant one-on-one Ed Rush from the league. Obviously broke the sack record. Last year, he has one of the most absurd pressure to sack rates over the totality of his career. I don't think there's going to be any sign decline for a long, long time. He is more than anyone else, him and Mike Crow would book it together as the guys who tilt the entire geometry of the field more than anyone else. When you look at how teams have to try and offset them, what they do, I would say with Micah, it's as much about the individual mechanics of do we chip him, do we double him? I think Garrett has more of a global impact on the entirety of the game plan in teams just deciding there are things off the menu for us this week that are traditionally on the menu for us because that guy's there, he gets to us so quickly.

So I just think that he does still sit in a cat's group as though. Yeah, we happen to be at one of his quieter games of the year in London. And yet, even then, you could just watch it from the live all 20 to how the entire plan of the opposition is all about stopping Miles Garrett. And you mentioned with the chips and the double teams, next-in stats keeps track to that. And percentage-wise, he still did face the most double teams plus chips of any player in the league. And number two, and that's that is Michael Parsons. a decent gap between him, Parsons, and number three. So NFL teams are telling us what they think, that they agree,

and why not get Andrew Siciliano into the show? I mean, if Miles Garrett is going to set an all-time record and one of our friends gets to call it, I want to listen to that call on the show. 5.20 remaining in this game, rounds up five. Bengals have it first out of the rounds. 45-yard line. Burrow, shotgun.

Burrow to throw. Here's those Moes. He got him. Act number 23, the new. single season. Sack, King, and the Browns defense mobs their man at the Cincinnati 45-yard line.

I kind of forgot that's a close game and the drama was building. It took him a while to get that final cycle. There's only five minutes left there in the entire season and Garrett gets a meaningful sack. So a cool way to finish. Only sixth in total pressures. You mentioned the pressure to sack. Yeah, he had the highest pressure to sack ratio of like anyone in the league over 30 or 40 pressures last year. He finishes, plays off, and that's kind of been a trait for him.

It is. Brandon Thorne, who runs the Trench Warfare Substack, which is outstanding folks, is on line plate. He tracks every single pressure in the league, and he starts to put scores together for what is a high-quality pressure or sack, what's low quality, what's more coverage-based, what's more scheme-based. It really helps you to isolate out. Who are just winning one-on-one matchups over and over again?

Are they doing it against great competition? are they beating up on backups. He puts together a sack score, which kind of gives a point system to all those things I just mentioned. And usually anything above a 10 is outstanding. Anything that's a 15 is traditionally the mark

for defensive player of the year. Miles Garrett finished with a 21.5 sack score last season, which is the best on record. So even within that sack record, you just mentioned that all the chips, all the extra help, the changing of the entire game plan,

to get it with the amount of attention that he got last season is one of those ludicrous things I think we'll see covering this bowl. So we're projecting for 2026 and injuries have to be a little bit of a factor. So that does change my number two overall pick. And I'm going to take Will Anderson. He's gotten better every year. I kind of wish I gave myself one. So then I could have just seen what you did with number two. I just think it's a little unrated how much better he got specifically last year. There was this

idea that Will Anderson somehow had a lower ceiling than maybe a Garrett or a Mike Parker Parsons, like, and maybe that is true, but just in terms of total pressures, like, he went from PFF from 68 to to 102. And like second and next gen, like, fourth in terms of quick pressures, he's always been good against the run. He started just forcing fumbles at a ridiculous rate. He's second and defensive player of the year. And so I thought about his importance to the Texans in general. Look, they double team DeNeal Hunter. It's a lot too, and it's a good spot to be, that he is going to be the Texans's franchise,

Larry Fitzgerald. Like, that he's going to be the most important guy in that franchise for like a decade. And maybe like Fitzgerald, we'll have a career where he's usually the second or third best player in the league at his position,

but it's so consistent at doing that. He's gotten better every year so he could continue to get better. Do you think that, well, we'll see with your number three pick. It feels weird to take him over, Micah, but coming off, the injuries that Micah has, I feel fine about it.

I think it's hard for him to even get any better. I think he's an unbelievable dominant player to get any better would be to go and break the sack record that Miles Garrett just did. I think he might be the most technically sound and impactful run defender in the league regardless of position. I don't think he's pretty good as a run defender.

I think he's the very best. And I do love the, for all the technical skill, all the physical skill he has. He also brings his best ball in the biggest spots. That really matters to me for the edge rushing guys. When you go up against the best competition, can you win one-on-one? When it's third and must have it for the,

season, you get all the extra attention, can you bring it over and over again? 69% of his drives, of his sacks last season, kill drives. So, Daniel does get a lot of the attention. He's an unbelievable player in his own right. But when it was closing time for the best defense in football for a lot of chunks of the season, it was Will Anderson who took over and that's what you want in the kind of dominant one-on-one pass for sure. Justice for Nick Therio, you know.

Trader Nick. I mean, his drafts have aged pretty well. And mine will too. All right, you're up with number three. I'm going to take Micah. I can't believe he's on the board at three. This is wonderful. I did think I'd be able to do the Garrett-Anderson double-dip.

I would have taken Anderson third overall. I'll take Micah Parsons. You didn't take him second purely because of injury concerns? Yeah, that was it. I mean, he might miss like five, six games this year. I'll take Willie Anderson. I guess, you know, the activity here is a little vague of what exactly we're ringing. But I'm thinking for 2026, yeah, I'd rather have a guy that I think is going to be available.

Freak me out a little one. Adam Schaefter said he might start on the PUP list. Yeah, that is concerning, but when he is on the field, there are very few forces like him. I do think he's got some more versatility that Will Anderson would have. I think if you're putting them side by side, the fact you can move Mike Parsons around, you can just get to different things structurally as a defense. Even last year, the Packers were throwing out things that were just kind of like designed to freak out offensive lines.

There wasn't even great theory or rationale behind it, but you can get away with that stuff because he's such an unbelievable speedser off the ball, unbelievable technician in his own right. I just think as a one-on-one pass for a shit, if you were having a rep for your life, it would be Garrett, then it would be Parsons. I think in terms of like reliability, he's just going to find a way to get the job done. He is the best defensive player, I think, to come in the league since JJ Watt. I always think about just the era, quote, unquote, that I've covered playing football. And Watt would, J.J. Watt would still be number one for me as just the most impressive player

in the first, let's say, three or four seasons entering the league on defense, and Parsons would be two. And nothing he has done at any point would stop me, which makes me wonder, why did I wait to take him immediately? Just the aggression. I just love how every snap feels like the last snap of his life,

somehow even more than the other guys at the top of this list, which is crazy to say, because a lot of them are all-time players. They're the best at what they do. And yet he even seemed, I don't know if he's trying harder, but he somehow is just more of a maniac than the rest of him, at least to me. I agree with that. I think he creates more consistent chaos than anyone in the league and that things just look like a mess in the backfield by his mere presence.

And with Garrett, he just will throw people aside, he'll dip around someone, he'll flatten the quarterback. But I think just like general an explosion and eruption of bodies just in his like orbit, I think that Parsons has that different kind of gear that he can tap into more regularly. So that's tier one. To me, there is a drop-off, and I think you could take a number of different guys here in this next year, five or six. I'm going to take a guy that has incredible stamina.

It's Aidan Hutchinson, and you said playing his best when it matters the most. He had more pressures in the fourth quarters of games last year than any player in the next-gen-gen-stats era. He was an incredible closer. He is a little less efficient than some of the three guys. that went ahead of him. But you could also look at the amount of snaps that he plays as a plus. You know, like he just never leaves the field.

So yeah, he's got to miss some stack tackles. I hate even, you know, picking nits with a guy like this. Like the quick pressures, the time to pressure are just like a little bit less. But he is also getting a ton of attention. He faced the third most chips of any edge in the league. And ultimately, like he is the cliche. He is gonna, like, if he is blocked initially, he really will keep going.

And so just the consistency, I found it a little easier to knock a hole into the rest of this tier that I wasn't feeling with Hutchinson. So I feel good about him at four. Yeah, I think he was the fourth guy on my board. And he also carries probably the heaviest pass rushing burden of any of these guys. We've talked about already. You mentioned just the volume of snaps, what's required of him. He's probably a little bit more one note than those other three guys.

I would say, and what he does, and it is a lot of effort and hustle. And so the pressure figures get juiced and some of the closing stuff isn't there. He really does just demolish. When it's someone who's at his level or slightly below, he demolishes, tackles one-on-one. When it's the really truly elite, he can have some quiet weeks, I think, in a way that Parsons doesn't really have or Anderson doesn't really have. So that would be the one knock on him, I think, that would push him into a second tier.

But I think it's perfectly fair to have him at kind of the top of that second tier. Yeah, and he a lot put on his shoulders. in Detroit just as kind of almost the face of this era and for him to deliver as well as he has like that that counts for something too in a very similar way I think to Will Anderson where it's just like they were counting on him to be that dude and then they actually delivered

at that level that is that is hard to find I don't know where you're going here at number five this is to me the first big question mark of the draft neither do I we're all going to find out together isn't this fun now this is where it gets tricky is like do I try and play the board some more, do I just go with my heart? I think I'm just going to go through the draft with my

heart. I'm not going to let any outside noise in. We're going to stick to the board. I'm going to take Danil Hunter, fifth overall. Next to mine too. Was he really? I don't think you can adequately capture it in any of the stats or figures exactly what Daniel Hunter brings the game down and down out. The level of ingenuity, the level of craft. Here's the guy who will maybe have four reps against a backup poor tackle where it's like is Daniel Hunter on the field. Then you'll put him up against Tristan Wirth, she put him up against Trent Williams, and he makes them look foolish. There's just a level of ingenuity and creativity with how he goes about it in a way no one I have scouted over 15 years now has ever played the position the way he does. He just makes

things up on the fly. He has the most outrageous body control of anyone. He's got unreal power. So he just can go up against any elite tackle in the league, I think, and on any given rep, just make them look foolish. He is so good. This is how good he is, Ali. He's 31 years old. This year, he signed a one million, or one year, $40 million extension into 2027. He's already 31. It's a $40 million extension for one year. And everyone is just like, oh yeah, well, that's fine. Of course. Of course he'd do that. It's Daniel Hunter. He has not shown any sign of decline. If anything, you could argue, like he was as good last year as he has ever been. there is no one quite like them.

That counted a little extra for me too. Just like the wow factor of all those million different moves that you have and him just being that freaks. I give him a little edge just for the entertainment value. Yeah, my heart soars whenever I watch the Little Hunter in a way with Nick Benito, I go, what an outstanding player. And I understand why he's so great, but I just don't get the tingly feeling of Man, I love Ball.

And I watched Daniel Hunter. It's like, that could just be what I do every Sunday. It's like there's no games on. It's wearing COVID again. Just get me the Dillon Hunter clips. I'll have a fun time. And I don't know if it's the way they run the defense or anything, but it says something that he actually is double team more,

you know, according to next gen, than Will Anderson even. So fifth in total pressures, he's just the man. I first, I always think of him first as the guy that John Gruden said on Monday night football before he really broke out as a player, that John Gruden made everyone feel weird on Twitter for a night. because he said if I could have one body in the world, that body would be able to Neil Hunters. Who can argue?

I think it was a good take. Good take. This is a totally good take. All right, this one's tough. I'm going to take Nick Bosa. He's coming off of a torn ACL. The only thing that worries me is for the few games that he was out there last year, I didn't think he was quite as good as he was before.

But what a player he is. I hate that him and Joey Bosa kind of get, mixed together. There's, you know, there's like the Trump stuff. Now Bosa's had two torn ACLs, which is a little concerning. And so you think, oh, they've both been injured. He is not Joey Bosa, who unfortunately, I think, has had kind of a disappointing overall career arc. I mean, this is a guy that's a defensive rookie year. A defensive player of the year. And he's only turning 29 this year. And I think of everyone left on the board, he is actually the biggest problem, that when other teams are going to have to game plan for him,

if he's close to peak Bosa, then he is that guy to me. And he has come off a torn ACL before. I know it's not easier the second time. But when he came off it before, Ali, you would not have known even in the slightest. He came out actually the first week off that ACL and had a monster game.

And so that's informing me taking Bosa next. So you don't take my capacity second overall because of injury concerns, but you'll take Boser off the second ACL term. Well, he had it done earlier in the season. Parsons, it was very specific of just like I thought he's, I think he's going to miss a chunk of this season, and I don't think Bosa is.

So it's a fair, it's a fair criticism to make, though. I think it's really fair on Boster's say, off the guys left, if everyone's really rolling, who's the one you're most concerned by, would be Nick Bosa. My one concern with the injury specifically, yes, he's come back from it before, I'm sure, given his mindset, he's doing all, you know, wonderful stem, himself stuff that's perfectly allowed, and we'll come back in fine shape. But as a kind of speed

bend Russia, which is what he primarily is, that gets me a little bit concerned because those guys can really start to tail off. And it may be tailing off to a way like T.J. Waters is it on where it's like the highest end reps are still the highest end reps. They're really impactful. They get sacks. They get fumbles. But it's just like that consistent, dominant down-to-down impact the way he's been for the majority of his career. Okay. You have me a little worried. There were safer picks out there for sure. Let's hear one of them. I'm going to take Nick Benito.

Yeah. I'm not apologizing to anyone. Nick doesn't have to tweet us this time. Is this high enough? Does this satiate him? I'm not sure. I took Nick Bosa over you, Benito. Come after me.

Sorry. He's not as well-rounded as guys left on the board and as anyone that's gone so far, but he has the most lethal super skill available to when he passes from the league. And when we go through all these draft assignments and we go through hundreds of draft prospects and we're looking for what is the one thing

we know kind of rises up to the next level of the league? It's just what is the getoff like? All the great passengers in the league have great getoffs. That's how you can win in the NFL. He has as good to get off as anyone in pro football. It was the second best league by NGS last season. But the snap timing, I think, pushed it to a different level. His just intuition of when the ball is coming out,

the two steps at quickness is able to get paired with those hops, I think is just outstanding. And he's massively improved as a run defender. He's still not as good as the best guys in the league, but it's kind of irrelevant given the impact he can actually make. And so you see someone like David Bailey get drafted where he's drafted because a team is chasing. Could we get Nick Benito?

I think when you see a play like that goes second overall, it's the league kind of telling you if we can find a player of that ilk, that to us is just a perennial or pro type player. Yeah, he was next on my board. It probably was unfair to let him go. The craziest thing about last season for him, He led the NFL in quick pressure percentage. He had multiple pressures in every game.

The stats in terms of the getoff, you said it. I love it when the numbers from next gen just back up your eye test. He really does have the best getoff in the league. But he did this by only being on the field for 56% of dropbacks for the Broncos. That's not even counting the rundowns when he, that's the reason he's off the field is he's not always there on what our quote unquote traditional rundown. So for him to have that level of impact, when he is rotating a little more, that was why I knocked him down a bit. But I like to hear what you said there about the run defense because I know that's really important to you in terms of the run defense. I do think he's going to be the type of player that makes NFL teams chase outliers.

Let's find our Nick Benito when there's, it's going to be very tough to find your Nick Benito. If I was James Gladstone, one of the young guys who wears the hoodie with the suit, I would about to. in all reports, like never mentioned Nick Benito. That's not acceptable to us. Because there's hundreds of suppressing the league who aren't as good as Nick Benito. And those guys go in the third round, fourth round. We can trade for them in the deadline.

We don't go chasing Nick Benito in the top ten. A one of one. Okay, you mentioned there might be guys that are more complete. And I think I'm going to pain you here by taking Josh Heinz Allen off the board here. Just to do it all guy that's got to do it at the top level.

You know, if I'm going to take a risk with Bosa, I'm not building a team here. here. Then I want that sort of the opposite of Bosa. I know exactly what I'm getting out of Josh Heinz Allen. He's a top 10 guy every year. He was a hundred pressure guy last year. A couple seasons in his career where he's also doing the top end stuff where, you know, if you're just talking about production, doing it quarterback hits plus sacks over 30, but he's a volume shooter. Like he's out there every snap. He's in next gen going to be over, you know, in the top five or six in terms of pressures. And there was no one else on the Jaguards last year doing.

anything. Trayvon Walker was hurt, didn't have his best year, and for a second it looked like Heinz Allen, maybe wasn't at his normal level, and then he finished the season really hot, and it ended up kind of making up for everything. And there's all these different stats of how you're going to measure it.

But when you check out pass rush win rate from ESPN, one of the things I like are the guys who are consistent, and they've been doing it for like five years. And Josh Heinz Allen is in the same spot every year. He's somewhere between about 12 and 16 in pass rush win rate, which kind of matches my eye test, but you combine that with the smarts and a really good run defender, just everything that you could want. And you know exactly who Josh Hines Allen is every season. Yeah, and of that top group, and I would put him in that top group,

he's the best, like pure masher of all of those guys, where it's not like Jared Verse, where it's just kind of throwing guys out the club down after down. But in terms of the stunt game, the loop game, which of these guys is willing to kind of throw their face into the fire to go pick someone else to their teammate? If you go through even like some Miles Garrett, that is not Miles Garrett's highest strength. He's kind of waiting for his turn on that stuff. Or he'll kind of slip around as the looping guy as the second man through. As the first guy into the fire, go throw yourself into two bodies, just create havoc, get guys on different levels, let your teammate come swoop behind you. No one throws themselves into the fire like Josh Heinz Allen.

And so to be in that kind of blue chip or right near the blue chip tier and to be willing to kind of subsume yourself to the scheme in that way, it's not normal. The guys do that. Mike is probably the one who's the most willing to go and do that stuff. But the rest of the list is guys who they win one-on-one against the great players. That's why they're great. I think Josh Heinz Allen is a little bit more on the team concept side, but he's willing to kind of turn himself over to the team in a way that a lot of the guys with his talent probably wouldn't do. Yeah, I know there's flashier players out there. I suspect you're going to take one of them right now.

But Jack's fans and Josh Hines Allen, I think they're always looking for the respect. I'm giving it to him with him going eighth. What's number nine? Who's number nine? I'm going to go very slightly off my board because you've made me nervous with how you've built your board out.

And I'm going to take a bit of a, maybe not a swing, but I'm going to hope this doesn't make me look like a dummy in 12 months. I'm going to take Abdul Carter. Wow. Wow. You made me, I made you nervous with how I'm doing my board. which is taking guys I like.

I thought I had Carter exceptionally high, but I had about four or five more picks here away. So I got a reach. Great. That's good to know. This is betting on the potential of the player and what we saw at the closing end of last season. He has one of the best we'll ever see

in terms of time to pressure of any rookie, any player in the league, and that's coming with a volume of a ton of pressures too. So the innate skill is there. He looks exactly like the player I thought he would do coming out of college. He still is not in any way to me piecing it together. I still think it's pure instinct and it's pure athleticism. And there's such a lack of refinement at times.

It's almost nauseating because he's so gifted. When you're watching him against Laramie Tunsell, he'll hit Laramie tons with two things you've never seen before. It reminds you a little bit of the Neil Hunter where it's like, I don't think he quite knew what he was doing there. It's kind of a hezzie, then a chop, then a spin move. Somehow he's cleared the distance. Tunsel's got no idea what's happening.

then it's just nothing, nothing, nothing, rep after rep. But if you look at kind of the volume production with what the high-end reps are, if any kind of switch goes on, or there's even any kind of improvement, he's producing the level he is now as such a role player,

which is a little like when Hunter came into the league, it's only going to take a tiny little switch to kind of get him to the next tier, I think, of being a truly dominant one-on-one. We have no idea what we're dealing with here as an offense. It's really not. even as bold as I made it out to be. I keep mentioning quick pressures.

So quick pressures, according to next-fman stats, defined by 2.5 seconds or less. Abdul-Carter, as a rookie, you mentioned, you know, the most, you know, for rookie. He had the most in the NFL. Like, he had more than Micah. He had more than literally everyone. There was only three games by any players all season

where someone had seven quick pressures in a game, which is basically like, I have totally taken over this game. two of those three games were by Carter. The other one was by Micah. Not surprisingly. He was that good, and he needs to be able to finish. But you kind of talked about guys who get you a little tingly.

I got him. I mean, Carter is that guy who you just watch him on tape. Just like, people don't move like that. That is just rare. Yeah, he moves differently. The finishing is the main thing, and the finishing was a thing coming out of college. His contact balance is pretty poor.

I don't think he's that flexible in the ankle. When anything one touches him, he goes down, and it often happens when, as he's kind of clearing the tackle, if he gets like a little nudge on the way through, he just hits the floor. So I don't know how a team's going to work around that. Is it flexibility? Is it lower body strength? There are two should be monster sacks on Jalen Hertz when they played against Philadelphia, where he gets the lightest touch and falls the floor.

After putting together, something you've never seen someone do before, deal to get a way around. One is against a guard. One's against a tackle. So the kind of like in-phase stuff and the early Porsche the reps of, is absolutely mind-blowing. The talent is so off the charts, but he does have to finish.

And I think part of it is that the contact balance I mentioned. And he also does, I think, needs to add some more weight and have a little bit more of a speed power threat. All the great guys that aren't Benito that we've talked about so far have some kind of speed power threat.

And Carter wants to play that the crafty, he has he movement game because he just moves differently to everyone else. But even Danil Hunter, who is built in that mold of, I can out think you. You'll never be able to guess what I'm doing, can just sit on power.

for three drives you once to and drive you back to the quarterback. Yeah, he also led the entire NFL in time to pressure. So it felt like partially a coaching or not connecting with his coaching staff thing last year. Definitely some maturity issues based on the reporting. I mean, that's something, it happens at this position. It happens at every position, but this position seems to overindex a little bit. We're like that rookie year, okay, like we've seen it in New York before. It wouldn't shock me at all for him to totally lock in.

I like that pick. I also like that you left me Max Crosby. See, I'm getting unpredictable here because I, you know, was concerned about the injuries at the top. The surgery is a concern. And some of the overall numbers are a little concerning when it comes to Max Crosby. Not in the top 40, I think it was in total pressures, which is crazy last year. Like sub-55 pressures on PFF, which is more generous. And look, he is getting chipped all the time.

right there with the top players in the league in terms of how much he's getting chipped. And it was partly because there was less opportunities. Not only were the Raiders never ahead, but he didn't play the last few games. There was possibly a little less juice at times. I think that is fair, like the time to pressure. I'm giving some of the negatives,

but still a total beast in terms of the running game, still a maniac. I still think gets all the respect as he should from the players that he goes against, and I take that into account. And so I am willing to look at last year a little bit of him playing through that injury and hoping him coming off the injury

that it can be improved. And it's Max Freaking Crosby. I just didn't want him to fall out of the top 10. No, I agree that. That was the guy who was going to take. It was much higher on the board than I had Carter, but I didn't want to miss out on him. If this was a three-year project,

I would be a little bit concerned about, okay, maybe we've seen the peak. can run kind of the steady part of the decline here. But even the high-end edge rushes are able to sustain some part of the decline. If they're not just pure speed off the ball type players, which he's not. And I certainly don't want to go up against a pissed off Max Crosby. So I'm going to guess that he's going to come back, all kinds of fury, all kinds of blurriness. If he's still on the Raiders, which I'm guessing he's going to be at this point,

they've so much improved the group around him. I think the numbers will skyrocket compared to what they were last year. Even if he's just the same player, or even does take some kind of step back, it's been so barren for so long and was so barren last season, he's carrying as such a heavy burden that it's only natural that at some point we're going to see some kind of slip in the figures. And I don't think he looks like quite the same burst athlete off the ball as two seasons ago. But maybe if he can have an offseason getting to some degree of 90%, 95% healthiness, we could

maybe see that player. He makes you feel something though, right? In the football, the football loins. There's a great article as we had to. break. Might be outside the realm of most of the people listening here, but it's by Alina Svidalina about her husband, Gail Monfiz, who's about to retire as a tennis player. And the article is one of the best pieces of sports writing I saw a year is essentially about like, you know, champions come and go. There's only so many different athletes that make you feel something. And it's very germane

to what we were talking about. And she was saying that about her husband. I think Raiders fans could say that about Max Crosby, certainly. Maybe everyone. else watching over the last few years. Let's take a break. We got our top 10 done, and we'll be back with the rest of the edge rusher list. Bell Pure Fiber Internet? It's fast, like really fast. And the offer, it's good, like really good. Switch to Bell Pure Fiber, Canada's fastest internet awarded by Ucla, with plans starting at $60 a month with auto pay credit. Whichever two-year term plan you choose, the price is guaranteed for two years. Fast internet, long ad. But it's so worth it. Visit bell.ca for more details and to check availability.

Bell, connection is everything. Back on NFL Daily, Ollie Connolly is up next with the number 11 overall pick. When they do the War Room, like, documentary about your process, birdies are telling me, I mean, you were considering Abdul Carter as early as number four. That would be wild. I was. My inside the War Room would look like one of the Ryan Paul's videos,

where he thinks he snagged a great thing and he's high-fiving the team and all the other GMs are just giggling about him on the phone to one another. It's like the, it's like the, the, Rams when the Patriots took Cole Strange, just that, that view. Let's go number 11. No, I think you put Carter out a good spot. And never be hesitant to make a bold pick because it's only going to be good for the NFL Daily 32 brand.

Okay, I'm in a tough spot here because I think there's about eight names in consideration. I'm just going to take TJ Walt of the Steelers. I don't feel great about it. I think the decline is really real. I think when you get a, you know, he's such a high profile. player and the big plays are so impactful, but he has just become such a boom or bust player relying on one thing from one alignment and he still creates havoc and it can still create chaos. But when you start seeing a player like that decline, I do get worried that the impact just gets

deadened and deadened. And there's an argument that of the three guys on his team that play his role, you maybe get more versatility from the other two guys and one is certainly more ascendant than I think where T.J. Watt is going. But it is very best. I think he still has game takeover potential. And I'm just thinking, if you had a slate of Penny Sewell, Tristan Wirth's, Trent Williams, and you're going through the names, who do you think could give those guys a tough time?

I would still, even though it's one move and everyone knows it's coming and it says an outside, dip under the shoulder, burst to the backfield as quickly as possible, that he is probably the guy who could get you the must have it, third down sack ahead of some of the guys I had in consideration. Yeah, I only had, we've stuck to my board, pretty closely. He was going to be only one other player was ahead of him that hasn't been taken. But if you want the profile, I misspoke when I said Max Crosby was not in the top 40 pressures. Don't be mad at me, Max. I'm not like a sent from Eric DeCosta to drive your value down or anything.

He was not in the top 20 in pressures. It was why I was thinking of that was not in the top 40 in total pressures. And so, yeah, the question is kind of how steep the drop off was. Now, he is getting doubled and chip more. I mentioned how it was Micah and Garrett at the top two in the league. Watt was still third. So he is getting chipped all the time. As much as anyone, actually, since 2018, which is a crazy stack in terms of pure chips. It's partly because of what his style is, which is a line as wide as possible, and you just dip up under the outside so that the chip becomes more effective against that kind of player, whereas with Micah Parsons, you've got the stab for outside, you could slash back inside.

It's not quite as effective as you just know the angle of attack on every single rep. and it's just, will he beat me off the ball or not? Does he time the snap well in a four or not? And so for a guy like TJ, what's similar to Nick Benito, you really have to crush people in the quick pressure world and the high quality sack and high quality pressure world. There's not going to be a huge volume of total pressure, I think, is his career kind of advances here.

Unless he wants to kind of transform and redefine his game, I have a hard time seeing it. Frankly, at this stage of his career, he's played this way now for so long, it's been so effective. But when the quick pressures fall below him being one of the top, top three guys, top four guys in the league, which is where he just lives. That has a massive compromising effect, I think, on the rest of the defense. It's not good enough for him to have these kind of second surge pressures that are kind of

extended because his impact comes immediately off the snap or it's not really fell all that much. I think the coaching change will help him just because I don't think it could be worse than it was last year where he's just so static. And I think they could help him out and help the other two guys who are going to be taken in this draft, Herbig and Highsmith. out by, you know, moving, rotating more. But the PFF grades, which are certainly not perfect, I think they're better at different positions than others.

But if you're a T.J. Watt fan, you've always seen these as his were, you know, outstanding off the charts. You know, 90 pass rush, 90, you know, run grade every year as recently as 2024. And last year, he was at 75 and 74 for PFF. And it was completely different than their grading really for the rest of the time. T.J. Watt was in the league. So he's opening up stuff for other guys. I don't think that's fair in terms of the run defense. Even if you just look at the numbers of like when you ran to T.J. Watt's side and you ran to the other side, it was much worse on T.J. Watside. I think he's still

great there. And I just wonder about that contract. 32 million dollars fully guaranteed next year. You don't see contracts like that too often. It's very NBA contract like where you could see him getting traded after this year. You also don't see a team hiring a guy because he like likes the local area, even though he's been out of the league. No one runs a team the way that you don't see people every year. You got to draft someone because they played the local area or that mom knows the coach. Like that's just they run differently to everyone else.

On one hand, I'm critical because I don't think it's a smart way to run your team. On the other hand, it is the type of contract that like you get in the NBA because you kind of get in the NBA for what you've done in the past. Like you get rewarded. And TJ Y has done all that for the Steelers.

So I actually do get it. He's going to get rewarded with. the gold jacket. Like, do we have to reward him with the contract? I get it. Jared Verst is going to get a monster contract pretty soon.

He's my pick. He is a very particular brand. We kind of mentioned people are looking for their Benito's. I think people are looking for their Jared versus because you can find players like that-ish.

Just absolutely rugged, blowing up the play. If you want to chart mistackles, he is going to be up there. But part of the reason he misses so many tackles is he's just back there. And if he could finish the place,

he would be one of the first four guys taken. And that's why he's not. His total pressures, according to PFF, is at 189 for two years. It's just preposterous. They count the playoff games, too, so he's getting a bonus. But you talked about playing well when it matters.

He killed Seattle last year. He was great in those games when Byron Young kind of disappointed. period. He had seven quarterback hits in the playoffs total. He helped close out that Bears game, if you remember well. He showed up in both players. I don't know if he improved in his second season, but he didn't really step back. I'm curious what you think. Did you notice the difference between him year one, year two was just more of the same? No, I think he is who he is. It's really, really, really rare for a speed to power rush, which is what he is. It's all just sit on the ball rush.

I can kind of big boy everyone. It's really rare from those guys to go from college and not actually carry over to the league where you are just bigger, stronger than everyone else. And even the great ones, you mention the Seattle game. If you go up against Abe Luke's or Charles Cross, both those guys struggle with just straight power through their chest.

He's the best pure power pass rusher in the league. And the thing I think with him is, I'm getting interested that you had him in the same vein because I think some people would maybe have him higher because the stats are so off the charts and the best plays are just throwing Tristan Wirthes to the floor, which you just never see against. anyone else that Tristan Wirth's plays against.

Jordan Mila has hit the deck against this guy. He's 6'9 and almost 400 pounds. That just doesn't happen with anyone else where he can just get under your pad level and throw you around. So I do think people see that those flash plays and maybe push him close towards the top eight, maybe even the top six.

I think that the total pressure numbers, the way those are charted, the power rushes end up encroaching in the space. The quarterback gets charted as a pressure. It's not always that. disruptive to the quarterback. They can slip and navigate around it, as opposed to a guy who can win inside outside. It's a flash of color inside. You've got to bail out the pocket. So I don't think his pressures are quite as impactful as everyone else's pressures all the time, but he has more

knockout shots than anyone else in the league. And I'm telling you, the Colts never ever want to see his face again. Tana Bortolini never wants to see this guy in his life. He has, I thought, the three most holy shi pass rushes of last season. And they all came in the Colts game and two of them against Tanabotlilini. That's incredible. It's the second time this week that Tanner Bordellini's come up for being on the wrong side

of a pass rush. I brought him up against Jordan Phillips of the dolphins. Jared versus might be the guy where the number of pressures between PFF and next-gen stats is the biggest because of,

I think it's what you're saying. And yeah, that's why he's higher, but again, if it's my team, I love pure power rushers. I've always loved Jadavian. Like, I love that style

It's fun to watch personally. And yeah, and it works in tandem. But yeah, there could only be a couple parsons, and he fits everywhere else. Yeah, you really can't win a championship without one of them. Like, it's great to have the slinky guys who can do the bouncy stuff or bend around the edge. You go through all the championship teams. They all have at least one of these guys, or they make up for it with two great ones on the inside. Every team needs an out in crunch Russia.

You can just kind of demolish the pocket in one clean blow. And I think verse right now is kind of the apex predator of the power. rushes, here's another guy where if you go chasing that, if you go back to his Florida State film and you see anything similar and you say, okay, we want to get one of those guys, it's just really tough to come up to the league and be as strong and impactful as Jared versus just a couple of years into his career. Maybe not as versatile, but is there a little bit of James Harrison to him, one of my all-time favorite players? This might have a deeper bag, honestly, than James Harrison. But yeah, in terms of you go up against a Hall of Fame,

left tackling, you just kind of dump truck him. It's almost impossible to do. Harrison could do that and first can do that. That's what the normies like me, like, just some guy who's going to create a car crash. All right, you're up. I will take Trey Hendrickson. Okay. I'm betting on the bounceback. I'm betting in that defensive environment.

It will kind of help the elements of his game that he has shine. I do think he's a little bit craftier than he's often given credit for us, more of the swooping type pass-frestra. I do think he's got more inside out versus. I think they're going to move him around more than he did at Cincinnati, put him over some guards letting him beat up on people inside. So I'm going to bet with Jesse Minter with a different defensive environment, getting him into these two-on-one conflicts where guys aren't sure he's supposed to be blocking

and giving him more of a free get-off that we'll see at least numbers-wise a return to a couple of years ago. He's fully healthy. Yeah, he's getting up there in years, but I think it's a great fit. What do you think about the run defense accusations, you know? I think that accurate. I think he's not impactful. And I think he asks out far too much for my liking.

Okay. All right, Trey Hendrick's in there, and he deserved to go. A little bit out of sight, out of mind, whereas, yeah,

if he had played even at the end of last season for six or seven games, I probably would have already taken him, but that didn't happen. All right, let's start taking guys. Just, I don't want you to have nice things.

I am going to take Nick Herbig now. Let's go for it. I already spent the whole segment on him earlier this week. So I'm not going to repeat myself. But you lead pass rush win rate and back-to-back seasons. I think he is a pretty complete player. Am I crazy?

I think he can handle more. They were only using him for about 25, 30 snaps a game towards the end of last year. But I see no reason why he can't play more than that. What do you think? No, the only concern would be some of the run defense stuff. And I don't think it's his fault why that. That's the case. It's usually, if Highsmith isn't in the game, Highsmith offsets a lot of their concerns just structurally in how they kind of set up to fit against the run.

I think it's really hard to get away with Herbick and walk together on the field on run downs, because they both do the same stuff, which is Gamble. We're going to backdoor everything. We're going to try and shoot everything off the snap. We're here to try and force funnels. We're here to create chaos. It's just impossible to build a wall with two guys kind of ripping into the backfield off the snap. And Highsmith is such an intelligent, outstanding run defender that you need to have him on the field

on those downs. And so then it becomes, whether we put a situational passrisher on the field or do we put T.J. Watt on the field. I think that's the difficulty they've had for many, many seasons. He is a sensational one-on-one pass-rish. His get-off is as good as anyone in the league,

bend as good as anyone in the league. If he played for any one-of-the-league, if he played for any of the franchise, he would be a walking one-on-one killer, who would be this household name of Revere, or at least of reverence. But he's not, because he plays the Pittsburgh Steelers. They refuse to do any kind of creative stuff

with their defensive front. They've got the old relibles there. Heistness really, really good. T.J. Watt has been sensational for his entire career. That it's just been hard for them to get him on the field as much as he deserves to be. Yeah, it's funny when you try to think of comps for Herbig, just as a pure ball of fire. I mean, T.J. Watts, not a bad one. They're good at drafting him there in Pittsburgh.

And I think there's a lot of people, I'm sure you know this too, that share your opinion on Herbig around the league. And so I'm curious what kind of how he handles this contract. situation because he does not need to settle for any discount for the Steelers, but then you have to push it to the franchise tag potentially. And just because if he actually could get out there, if they were dumb enough to make that happen, you know, he, you know, preview, he's number one on my overall list and he's getting a wild number. Whatever Jalen Phillips got and then some by a good amount. I think, I mean, I've been crying out for teams to trade for him forever. If these guys aren't going to use him, they're going to value him as a 35% of the snap time.

type player going off them a second round pick, they'd give him up, and he would be an immediate impactful player for almost any team in the league. I think they will use him differently this year. I suspect with the new coaching staff, he gets paid more. Do we go back-to-back Steelers, three out of five Steelers here in Highsmith next? We do not. Okay. He's in, I feel like this is the range that he might go in. This is the range. I'm going to take Josh Sweat from the Cardinals. Woo! Love it. I think of all the dominant one-on-one pass rushes, put them against any person in the league and can they win the rep against the best of the best talent.

He's the most underrated player in football. Because I think Herbic has this kind of online cult fan base, which is also the entire Steelers fan base who recognize that he's not being played off enough. Josh Sweat never ever gets talked about in the elite company that just one-on-one high-end reps against the best talent, he wins as much as Will Anderson. He wins as much as Micah Parsons. It doesn't always look as blurry, as violent as Michael Parsons does it. But the end outcome, the bag of tricks, the sequencing of moves together, the different

variety of moves, he just excels in hand-to-hand combat. He's got the speed. He's got the bend. He's had unbelievable one-on-one wins last season against Trent Williams, Charles Cross, Ikemaquan. It's like you go through the really tough tackles in the league and he can just clown people consistently. And you go through the Brandon Thorne tracks, the high-grimmy. quality, a number of sacks per snap. He finished fifth in the league two seasons in a row.

Last year, it was behind only Garrett Parsons, Hunter, and Chase Young. It's the best of the best. And that you cannot go through any part of his game and say that fall short of the elite standard. He's just kind of lost in the conversation consistently. And he went to Arizona on from the outside, would look like, oh, is that an overpay? He's always just kind of been one of the guys in Philadelphia. And then he goes to Arizona, backs it up with, with, with,

that season that you just mentioned, 12 sacks. I said Abdul Carter, you know, first in time to pressure. Earlier, Josh Sweat was second in the entire league. And we talked before we started. Yeah, I wish I could go back and just watch a little more of these guys. I spent a long time prepping and everything, but I couldn't watch everyone. And Sweat was one of those guys because once I looked at the numbers, I just kept pushing them up and up and up on my list.

I still not even as high as you. Maybe I should have. And the thing I wrote was because why I wanted to watch them is just flashier than you think, which backs up, I guess, what you just said. He's fun to watch. He is an old tingle team player, is that you have to get up and go for a walk around going. This is too much fun.

We're having a great time there watching Josh Sweat. I think it's time for Brian Burns. You know, we talked about quick pressures. 23 quick pressures last year. He's 16 and a half sacks. He's not going to give you those sacks every year. His pressure to sack ratio last year was so high. But what he is every year is pretty much the same player.

And the production just popped. up like crazy last year. But there's a reason that they gave him the money and that they traded for him because he just gives you what you want. I think in a maybe less well-rounded way to Josh Heinz Allen, I think of them as just like guys, I know what I'm going to get. And yeah, last year suddenly he has like 15, 16 sacks and 15 quarterback kids. He gets more attention. He had some unblocked pressures. But he's got that quickness, you know, coming off the snap. And at this position in particular, you know, you're saying you want to see a guy who performs in the biggest of spots. He's just been on bad teams, but I do think of him as a very trustworthy player.

I know who Brian Burns is, and I'm taking him 16th overall. Know who he is as fair, whether he is the best at the thing that you know him to do, I would probably question. Last season's production, I thought, was a bit of an outlier. He has been that same player for a long time. It was a lot of unblocked stuff. It was a lot of schemed up stuff. it was a lot of the attention is going to everywhere else.

This Abdul Karthagai, you just mentioned, is first in time to pressure by a pretty significant distance. It's like 2.39 seconds or something. I think Abdul Qarters time to pressure was. That is so ludicrously fast. So the lightning's coming off one side. You got Dexter Lawrence inside, absolutely terrifying to figure out what to do with a nose tackle

who can rush the passer. And then Burns just kind of swoops him off the edge. And he was just unblocked so consistently or they would game a fight and kind of swoop him inside with a free run to the quarterback. So I just thought it was a lot of more manufactured stuff last season than him just being a really

I don't think he's a dominant one-on-on passers he'd put him more in that Benito bucket I don't think he quite has that get-off that Benito has no or else he would have gone further now at one point the Rams crazy little sliding doors moment like tried to give up the farm

all these picks for Brian Burns and the Panther said no like we don't want you're two firsts for Brian Burns they end up settling like that I wonder what the Rams build would have been like. But he was the type of player to inspire that sort of confidence. And yet, as I said that, I felt like I was trying to convince myself. Maybe I should have waited a few more spots, but I feel fine with Burns there. What are you got at 17? I'm going to take Jalen Phillips

from the Panthers. When healthy, the variety of moves, the quality of the movement, again, going up against the elite competition, just because how he moves differently and he can sequence so many different things together. You see people like Spencer Brown, just their heads are spinning. Those guys can deal with the best. And they go up against J-Lon Phillips and he just has a way of nimbly and subtly and artfully. I think he's probably one of the peak craftsman at the position. And I really admire that. And then I thought when you got to Philadelphia, it was a little bit more streamlined. And they were just kind of like head down. We get off the ball and go here. And he showed that I can just play, get off the ball and go football. I want. I have all the bend. I have all the bursts

if needed. But then he also has this second. trait, which is just the intellect. The wow plays, and just really for his size, the versatility, are awesome. And the crazy thing is I think he's going to be better another year away from those devastating injuries to come back from those two season ending injuries in a row and to be that physically impressive the first season back. I don't think he was even as good or as just athletically. impressive last year as he was in what was that the 22 season for the dolphins when he's just to me a

total freak so i think if he's healthy to me he has the highest ceiling when i wrote him down and this was in the same area-ish that i had i have a group of players but i wrote of this group i thought he has the highest ceiling of any of this group of players if it all goes perfectly well yeah i really thought he was going to be cooked and he was a player i just adored watching every single week and just thought This is a wrap. The injuries are too much. His game was based on intelligence and craft more than it was the burst, but the burst that gives you access to do all the fun, creative things. It's a similar conversation with Laiatu Lartu.

Is he quite explosive enough to be able to access all the intellect? Someone like Hunter who has all this imagination can get away with it because you can also run through your face. So you go out of worry about that for him to be able to pull all these moves together. I thought last year he proved that even if he's never back to being the player he was at the peak days in Miami, he can now work around. round that he's athletic enough again to then be able to bring all kind of the craft into it. Yeah, there's a couple players here. I just feel bad as have fallen this far. I think it is time,

by the way, for the offseason ride-along presented by Toyota. You know, I mentioned one of them earlier. I'm going to take Jonathan Grenard, maybe just because I just took the safe pick earlier and I'm going to take someone that to me is a little more fun. Jonathan Granard now with the Eagles. I think it's probably the most important player they acquired this offseason. It's going to be really important to their team build, being right about that contract, being right about that trait. He is a guy in a different way than verse. Doesn't always finish plays, but is very good. And there's a lot of quick pressure. We've talked about time to pressure a lot on this show. He was fourth in the NFL last year,

which was his worst season since he broke out in terms of, you know, sacks. But a little like Daniel Hunter, the guy he replaced in Minnesota, just a fun player in terms of I think he's smart. I think he's got a lot of different moves. I think he's a pro. I think he's going to figure out how to get more production this year, how to make that contract work. So on one hand, I feel safe taking him.

And then just with the juice that he has, I do think there's a nice ceiling. It's a good combination. I can see why Howie's betting out of it. If Howie's Betten him, I shouldn't feel bad about betting on him. He has some of the best hand usage in the league. I think the decline in production is greatly overstated. You just go and watch him.

He is inches away from finishing some of these plays. It's not like he's falling off sacks or there's some kind of like problem there. It's just happenstance. Sometimes you're just close enough. Sometimes the ball's out split second before you can finish it. In terms of just like clearing the bodies, winning the one-on-one rep.

He's still doing that at the same level he did during his best days with the Vikings. So I just think he's an incredibly efficient pass-rusher. I think he can be up on any style of tackle. which is something I really cover. I think the Eagles really covered that. That's why Jalen Phillips was the guy. The ID was like, does any variety of tackle?

It's not just a verse type player where it's head down. We're doing the same thing over and over again. We want some more creativity. We want some more versatility. They know what they've got going on inside. They know they've got the kind of howitzes straight down the line.

Power rushes on opposite. Jonathan Grenard. And so with Grenard, you do get a little bit more of the versatility and variety. That was the off-season ride-along presented by Toyota. When your people are you the destination, your ride is important. Learn more at Toyota.com and find the vehicle that fits your people. All year next with Pick 19.

I'm going to take Liatu-Latu from the Colts, a player who I will admit. It doesn't matter how long we do this show together, one year, 10 years. Every season we do this thing, I will be taking Li-A-Tu-Latu in this range. Unless there is a breakout that pushes him into the top 10. I will never ever quit a player who when you watch him, he is as unorthodox as any pass rush you're playing in the league. He doesn't even really play football a lot of the time. It's like he's doing these MMA moves, like some Tajikistan type stuff going on. I don't know where he's learned this. It's his complete, unique variety of pass rusher just seems and feels impossible to block

for prolonged stretches. The finishing is probably the concern. When he does finish plays, it's as mind-blowing as you've ever seen someone do it. He's also because, excellent in coverage, which I think is a boost that a lot of the guys we've talked about don't quite have in their game. He's become really gifted in the run game, which is not a strength coming out in college. I do wonder, will he ever have, as I mentioned before, that initial jolt off the ball to be able to access all the ingenuity that he has in him, or will he always just be a really fun player who teams are happy to have out there, but will never kind of crack the top 10, top six of the position? That he improved a lot as a second year.

player. I really liked him coming out of the draft. He maybe a little like Daniel Hunter is a guy with such a deep bag of moves that it takes some time in the NFL to learn when to use them and when not to. I don't know if he faded down the stretch, but I thought he really started last season well. I think he's probably improved as more of like a complete player on rundowns too. And so that would hurt me because he's one of my favorites too. And we're projecting. I thought I projected a nice improvement from him, but not enough. 20-6. All right, our number 20 pick in this draft.

You can hear me, Hemming and Hind. Well, I mentioned Alex Highsmith a while ago. I just feel like, let's respect, I was going to say the old guy, but he's right in the middle of his career. He's 28, 29 years old. And he's an all-around player. Your buddy John Ledyard likes to mention how he doesn't understand why Alex Highsmith is a plus in coverage, but like he has a good feat.

of making some plays even in coverage sometimes, which is pretty rare. Yeah, Lyotu Latu had three interceptions. That many people are going to do this at this position. The PFF overall grade here, I'm going to use PFF when it suits my needs because I do think it tells a story about who Alex Highsmith is as a player

because they include run defense, they include tackling. The last three seasons for, you know, players hitting a minimum threshold of snaps. 13th last year, eighth the year before, 10th the year before that. And you mentioned earlier when talking about, okay, well, you have Highsmith cleaning up a lot of what they want to do on the run defense.

And so you have to, you can't have Herbic and Watt necessarily out there to get. I mean, that to me helps describe why Highsmith is so good. A guy who would fit on every single team is a complete player, is a good pass rusher is still in his prime. I just don't, I don't see much reason to let him go much further. No, I'm devastated. You're able to snag him. Probably should have taken him before a lot, too. I had him much.

I don't know what it is about Alex Seithman. I'm saying that, like, he's, he should, we should be more excited about him. And yet, I think both of us let him fall further than he actually wasn't. I had him like four or five spots higher on my board. That one's going to hurt when I see the graphic because I really love Nick Herbick. And I really do think that if he played for a team that let him play full time, he would have a monster season. It feels a little disrespectful to have him go that far before Alex Highsmith.

He's just as an all-around valuable player. Kerbig does the most valuable thing better than Alex Highsmith, but Highsmith does that most valuable thing at a really, really high level. The quick pressure rate is off the scale. I think he was fifth in time to pressure last season, which isn't really the mainstay of his game. As you mentioned, it's more the all-around impact that he has on the defense, but he has been able to really elevate in terms of that high-quality number of wins that he has, that it's not just this kind of second surge, effort-based stuff where what goes flying off one side, and he kind of comes from Clems on the other side.

He started to become a really good three-way rush for in his own, right? All right, one more break before we let Eric Roberts free from Memorial Day weekend. He's like, well, let's maybe try to make this show a little quicker. We have a mission here, Eric, and that is to provide the sickos the most in-depth annual rankings. We are doing this every single year, and this is our one chance to give a nice couple-minute conversation about Alex Highsmith. We'll be back in a few minutes.

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Bell, connection is everything. Back on NFL Daily. But yeah, if you're overseas, it might not be aware, holiday here in the States, Memorial Day on Monday, taking my father-in-law, who's in town from Japan for the first time in many years, to a Dodgers game on Memorial Day. That's going to be fun. We're going to Vegas on Saturday. It's a big weekend.

It's a big weekend. I know. I think we're going to take my son to some fancy sushi. Let's go to Pick 21. We're doing the top edge rushers. You are a. next, Ali. I'm going to take Yaya Diabi from the books. Eric is beside himself with joy for the 10 minute Yaya Diabbi conversation before he gets to Disney. Stop, but Eric loves his job. I'm just poking

fun at him. He loves the Diabi talk. Diabi is in that similar Jared verse mold of the out to aim pure power Russia. And I thought when Hassan Reddick was engaged for the books for at least those first two weeks, he really wanted to play football for the books for a fortnight. you got to see him in his ideal spot, which was from one side you get kind of the press, the diagonal push in the pocket, and on the other side you got the swoop around the edge, and it really showed you kind of the complete elements of DRB's game. I think him and Ruben Bain together is a pretty devastating duo in terms of the crossover of skill sets.

He like Versa, I think, has a little bit of that pressure inflation stuff going on, where it's a lot of perceived pressure because of just proximity to the quarterback. It's not quite as devastating as someone like Vers is able to tap into. too consistently, but it's a really good out to empower Russia. I like those guys. He's a really talented run defender, so I'm going to take the obvi there. I'm annoyed. He's great stop.

Like his run stop numbers are terrific, and you can just see it. He was on our all underrated team earlier this season. I love how he backed up his breakout team. I'm annoyed because you're taking the guys, I feel like are quote unquote, my guys. And yet I'm going to take someone next, just to be a little spicy, who has never been one of my guys who I suspect is not one of your guys and wasn't going to get taken this high. And I just got to give up, give it up for Chase Young coming off last season, that like getting off the snap last year, number one by far is Garrett.

Number three is Benito, like the people that you expect in terms of getoff according to the next gen stats are all the people you expect. Jonathan Cooper is up there. It was a great get up. You know who's number two? It was Chase freaking young. His pressures, they were quick. Second and quick pressure percentage.

Like the statistical profile, and he didn't have as many snaps last year, was pretty outrageous. I feel like I slept on his comeback season. He is someone that I decided to go back and watch because he was seventh and past rush win rate. If you just look at the statistical profile, he actually deserved to go even higher in this draft. I couldn't get there. But when I went back to watch, I did think whether it was the injuries, the coaching, just being in the league long enough, he is playing his best football. It's more mature, for lack of a better word,

and he's got the juice. Like, he is starting to really live up to the spot where he got drafted. I just want to give Chase Young a little love. I think it's a completely fair pick. My only thing would be that he was more of a situational guy and not only drafted so far as a situational player. Some of those guys may have more that usage.

Herbig is borderline. So it'd be Herbing and Young, I think, would be the comparison there. His last season, 75% of his sacks killed drive. There is no one even in the vicinity. It's usually 50% is like the max. So he was absurd. And I think all around with the Saints, we've discussed us on multiple of these shows

that other than people, I think, recognizing nationally that Tyler Shook looked pretty good coming in last season, maybe they have an answer. They'll find out next season. All across the board, I thought the development was huge. They got themselves the best sub-rusher in the league. That offensive line is filled with young talent.

They added a really good veteran. So there are really some green spurts of stuff that isn't just hanging on to the last messages of the previous team. Yeah, I wanted to see where the, you know, sacks a little fluky or what's happening here. It's like, they were pretty impressive. Plenty of them against good players.

And I get it. They brought them in. I was a little surprised by that. I thought it was a good value. The first contract was a little surprised by the second one. But Mickey, Mickey's feeling himself. Let's see if Mickey can hit another home run with that contract that they gave Chase Young. All right, you're up next.

I'm going to take Tully, Tupiloto from the charges. A player who I was not on board with at all. He's a guy I really went and studied this week. I asked a right tackling the league. I sent him my board. Wow. Who is the guy that I am? I'm a brag.

Who is the guy that I am lowest on? And he said, Tupoloto is the most annoying person to block in the league. And when you go and watch the film, you can see all the numbers, which are really impressive. He has a really funky style where he's small. He just kind of barrels himself into the chest of blockers.

There's not a whole lot of skill going on. There's not a whole lot of technique, but he has the most explosive disengagement is how I would describe it. Like there's three phases of a pass rush. The first two phases are so-so with him. The third phase, he slingshots off people and just closes like few of the people as consistently in the league. And he just seems like a nuisance to block down in, down out. And there are some more moves than I gave him credit for. I bucketed him slightly in the George Karl Lofdis type vein where it's like, okay, good players around them,

scheme, maybe slightly inflated production, not that great of an athlete. And when I went back through on a full rewatch of him, I was really, really impressed with the development of him. That's good to hear. And I only had one or two guys left that it would be ahead of him. So this is the same area I had him. Part of the reason he would even be this low is, yeah, he had the great sack production last year. He doubled his career total with 13 in one season. And he's not thought of as like a plus run defender. You could tell me if you disagree. And that the statistical profile in terms of the time to pressure. It is a lot of hustle stuff. There is some unblocked stuff in there. But that to me is almost the reason that he's not top 15. This makes sense

for me. And someone that would absolutely agree would be Jeremiah who watches him each and every week. And I think has had a similar evolution to the one that you went through just this week after that right tackle told you that of just like the more he has watched him over and over. He has really appreciated what his game brings to the table. It's because you're not finding any like A plus skill. Where even you mentioned Chey Chung, like the get off

and the strength is like that looks like the great ones. With two Polotho, it's like it's a lot of B to B plus stuff but it adds up to the whole is just impactful.

And he creates, he doesn't have anywhere near the inline power of verse or Garrett or the really great players. But limbs just fly everywhere around him. I don't even know what it is. He just gets under the pad level

he rocks into people and limbs just fly all over the place. You can watch the Vikings, the cults, the dolphins just feels like every other rep guys are just chasing the people. backfield is just a mess, and it starts with two poloto.

I'll go with Trayvon Walker at 24. I got to put my money where my mouth is saying he's been a pretty underrated player. It wasn't his best season last year. He was definitely playing through injury. It actually impacts my ranking that they gave him that contract off of that season because they don't have any doubt about Trayvon Walker. And so I think you're going to get a better overall season. I think the general consensus on him is right.

Like he's just a powerful man who's great against the run and is a dog and is pretty selfless and a guy that you want on your team. He's on my team, Trayvon Walker. Yeah, another one who's excellent in the stunt and twist game. They have probably two of the five best stunt twist players in the league. They play together. It's kind of helpful. And yeah, I think he's just been purely a victim at the fact of where he was selected.

He's turned into being a really good player and a lot of number one overall picks fail miserably or just so-so. I think he's much better than that. It just so happens that he was taken before Aiden Hutchinson, which is a whiff. But on the trajectory of a lot of number one overall picks, he's had a really good career. And I think if we did the list again next year, he's more talented still than guys like Tia Poloto. He's got a similar profile to someone like Yaya Diabee. I wouldn't be surprised if he continues to group up.

This exercise is tricky because we only have, what, eight picks left. You're going to have 25. And you just think of these guys. Oh, that's a top 15 pass pressure. That's a top 20 pass rush. And you realize doing this, there's going to be some good players left off the board. And that's why, you know, when fans, let's say Jags fans, when they've seen Trayvon Walker left off like a top 15 pass rusher list over there,

and they're kind of mad. Hey, he's underrated. I'm a fan of him, and he still only even gets in here at 24 as a good player. Who are you taking with 25? I'm taking Byron Young from the Rams. Next on my board, too. It's too predictable. Really quick, vicious hands.

another guy who will sell his soul to the team construct. I just love those guys, that those guys can play on my team any day, similar to Walker in that sense, can win all three ways inside, outside, through someone's face, has good pop on contact. His development arc is a really interesting one,

probably too long for, or boring for this show, but how he's kind of fundamentally changed his mechanics to unlock the player he is, is absolutely, is incredibly impressed from the player. He wasn't Tennessee to become the player he is. in the league and how he wins in the league.

Yeah, we're at the point of the draft where we got to make sure we pick our favorites. Now, he quieted down a little bit. You said you want a guy who makes big plays in the biggest moments? I thought maybe his worst game, it just so happens. I haven't to rewatch that one.

He was just kind of invisible in the NFC championship game. So that was a bad final impression for him to leave me. And yet, like, if you just look at the numbers, they are outrageous. Like, Byron Young is up there, In terms of hitting the quarterback, it's basically Miles Garrett, Hutchinson, and then Byron Young last year. And it makes way more plays in the running game last year than he ever had before.

For a guy I don't think of as a big guy, he's what, like 250 pounds? You can leave him out here. They leave him out. He never leaves the field. Since he's been drafted, he's just like out there. And all of their pressure game stuff and any creativity, they do tease off around him because verse just kind of is isolated and what he does. So the guy they have the funning games with his Byron Young, I think that matters. Yeah, almost like a thousand snaps, basically every season.

I'm trying to think of like, do I want like the safe player who kind of has earned his spot here? Do I just want someone that is fun? Do I just want to go big on the Jalix Hunt breakout season right now and just why not? Is that me taking him? Is it too early for him? What do you think?

Now I'm asking your opinion. I'm just going to take Jailx Hunt. Let's take some fun players. Okay, good. Good, I want to pain you. Another guy, I think I connected in mind because he was right behind Byron Young on that list of how many times did you hit the quarterback per pass rush? He is right back there.

I think he's so good that he is going to impact like Nolan Smith's money because he is better than Nolan Smith and Nolan Smith's entering a contract year. Nolan Smith just got arrested for driving 137 miles an hour. That's a news item we hadn't hit on the show. And so you hate to see that, like way too much of that happening. I think Hunt is kind of passing him as just a guy who, like Smith, very strong. And, man, when he was pushing Trent Williams back a little bit in that playoff game, that's what got me really excited.

Just like, okay, what's next for this, dude? I feel like I've been leading the Hunt hype train since the draft. He's got all the tools to be a superstar. When I start this exercise, I had him at 15. Then I was like, you kind of high in your own supply there. So I saw him moving him down and trying to be sensible. and now I'm devastated that you're able to take him here. I would say when you go through him,

and I had to take off my glasses of like, I want him to be great because I thought he could be great going into the draft. I didn't want to get quite my unbiased. He's a little bit one note. A lot of stuff happens very slowly for a guy as gifted as he is. There are levels he can ascend to, which is what I would bet on.

And I do think this could be finally like the full breakout to being more of a well-rounded player. But he's still just incredibly raw for a guy who's now playing a ton of snaps and I would have expected to see him maybe a little bit more development in terms of how he gets after it. Even the way he runs is just funky. He's all on his tiptoes. It's really choppy.

It's just not loose and fluid. And he's really naturally explosive, but it isn't quite there when you watch the film. It's a lot of false stepping. It's a lot of fitting three steps in where you only need two. And yet when you watch him against some of the mid-to-lower-end tackles, like Rashid Walker, he just annihilated. And so that is like clearing the first checkmark for me for a guy drafted where he was small school. And as you mentioned, even against the big boys, he has the skill set to make the afternoon uncomfortable. And I think that he's got the toolbox to be able to go and be.

If you were telling me, who would crack the top 10 where you'd be like a guy's going to leap from the bottom third? He would be the guy better because if he butts it together, he's going to be a complete menace. I mean, how about playing it a big game? He's one of the people I remember most from that Super Bowl from just being live. They just could not handle his speed and power in that game. That's as a rookie. So that'll always stick with me. 27. You're at the point now where it's like, okay, you better take him or else he just may not get

taken at all. I'm at the point as well where there's a fan base I already know is getting really offended, but I'm going to take DeMarcus Lawrence from the Seahawks. I don't even know who this fan base is. Okay, I'll love to revisit. He's still one of the smartest pastures in the league in DeMarcus Lawrence. The getoff is still there. Probably just the best last season, pure edge rushing run defender as an edge player. Don't think you, it's hard to separate all the Seahawksness of it from the scheme, from the interior guys, from the kind of cavalcade of rushes they roll through. I still think DeMarcus Lawrence has the juice to be.

I think this is almost even disrespectful, but there's a bit of a projection. I think he's just a better play than to Apollo 2, but if there's going to be some decline, it would probably come this season. Yeah, just a knack for big plays, you know, the age. He was coming off an injury, but he just wrecked stuff. And look, he was top 15 in pass rush win rate last year. It wasn't like it was all just, you know, powering people back into the backfield, the top 15 in PFF.

He's another guy who kind of like averse misses a lot of tackles because he's just there to miss them, but just creates chaos. One of my all-time favorite players, I'm glad. I was going to make sure he went in this draft. He was, literally the guy I wrote at the bottom was just like, take him with your last pick if he's not there because, like, I don't want to be part of a draft.

He doesn't get taken. All right, the fan base. There's a couple options. Were you talking about the Bears and Montes Sweat? Because I'll take him off the board if not. No? I was not. I think Bears fans understand where they're at.

Okay. Actually, I don't want to take Montes. They're having online meltdowns about the fact they didn't draft an edge rush. Would they be doing that if they were in love with Montez Sweat? Then maybe I don't know. But I changed my mind. Mid-conversation. I'm going to take just a solid player in Greg Russo who just finds a way

every season to finish in like top 20-ish and pressure rate last year. There's not a lot of quick pressures. Like it is a slow time to pressure. It does mean something to me that he's kind of the same player every year. He finished last year well, five straight games with at least four pressures.

Like he ends up getting in the same ballpark of players of very good, maybe not great. Maybe I'm aiming too low here with Greg Rousseau, but I feel like he's earned that respect. Like when they gave him that contract, I was like, yeah, I'm good with that. That totally makes sense. To me, he's exactly kind of what you want as a second, quote unquote, Eddresher. But then when you look at the list here, and I feel like this is where he deserves to be taken, 28th.

Like, some teams don't even have a Greg Rousseau. So get him locked up. Every team would love a Greg Rousseau. It's just the value you place in it, I guess. He was the one I was referring to with the fan base because I feel like I've been so critical of the bills as an organization since I join this show. The Bills fans are starting to think that I'm not a fan of the Bills when I would love nothing more in my career to cover them lifting the Lombardi. That would be a dream of mine. I want that for them. I want that for Josh Allen. I don't think this regime is going to get it done.

Rousseau, the major thing with him is just, is he anywhere near the caliber of just past Russia to be able to be on the list? Honestly, I struggle with that because I think as a run defender, he's absolutely outstanding. It's just the time to pressure, you mentioned, it's a little slow. It was 3.4.3 seconds time to press last year. That was 99th of 106 eligible pass rushes. That's just not a little slow. It's just,

it's nowhere near good enough. And you start racking up against either situational subbrushes of Bryce Huff, Al-Qadim Mohammed. He's just not bringing it anywhere near the kind of volume or impact you need at the level of speed that you need. I thought he kind of earned his way on the list,

but there are a couple players that, yeah, get me a little more tingling. I don't think Bill's fans will be mad about that. Bill's fans, I believe, have crossed over from just being so over the moon that they're back to being real deal contenders. I can't believe our luck from Josh Allen to a little salty and kind of annoy it. Like, weirdly over it with this build of the, like, show us something, Bill's especially on defense. And Russo is part of that, even though he's been one of their best players, one of their best draft picks. All right, you're up with 29.

I'm going to take Jalen Walker from the Falcons This is a little bit of a shoot for the moon When I saw him in person I can't remember you weren't at that game Right in Berlin I just thought that the movement skills Were when you talked earlier about Abdul Cards Like he just moves differently to other people

He is one of the most special athletes I think at the position Now will it ever all come together I think a lot of it will depend on the style of assistant The Falcons are going to run this season I know they kept Jeff a little break but where it looked more like Ulbric with the Jets,

where it was very Niners base, where it looked more like last year where it was all the chaos and the blitzing. Even the numbers last year indicate a play who was so scheme-oriented. It's all unblocked. It's not a lot of one-on-one wins. But the talent is so supreme

that he could just be a guy who goes from 25, 30 pressures and then just launches into a 60-65 pressure season with this special blend of athleticism and intellect. And then just as a run defender, he's already one of the best like end man in the line of scrimmoner. type head up and hit it type plays.

And the way someone like a Greg Rousseau is, but you just get this kind of pasture subside because of the natural juice, I think. Yeah, there are not many run defenders that make me jump out of my seats for the athleticism that they show in run defense. Like, he's not, I mean, Micah, who weirdly, like, would get criticized

for his run defense, is like that to me. And Jalen Walker's a little like that to me, too. So he and Lawrence, you hurt me there. Were the two guys I put at the bottom. I was just like, I want them to be on this list. So if you had not taken him, he was going to be one of my final two picks. But you took him away. And I'm going to take Boy Maffei, who's always been one of my favorites.

And I appreciated that the Bengals contractually backed me up there. Like he passes the eye test. I went back and look because I thought I remembered Mike McDonald said something about him going into the Super Bowl. And he did. And it was just like, look, of all our pass rushers, he wins the quickest. Like that is incredibly valuable for our total pass rush plan. after he signed that contract, there was some reporting out of Seattle's like, we love Boye, but like, not at that level. Yeah, not at that level. So that makes me a little cautious about it. Like his sack production went down from like nine to six to two last year. I mean, that is pretty low. But if you like the pass rush win rate, you know, he's gone eighth, 12th, 17th. So actually in reverse order, he was top 10 last year and he's always been a top 20 guy. And that,

That's what I see. Like, that's what I see when I watch them, just the movement skills, the ability to win quickly, like, who wouldn't want a guy like that? He, to me, is like, that's an NFL pass pressure. He's a certain type of NFL pass treasure, but he is an NFL pass rusher. He is one of those one note guys. It's all about the get-off, which is why I think the Seahawks highlighted it there. Like, yeah, you need some initial burst off the balls somewhere across the line of scrimmage,

and he certainly brings that. I just don't think he's that well-rounded of a play. I really think it's, if he doesn't beat you out of the cleats, out of the stance, then it's, it's a little bit of a rap more than it should be for someone. Of his, like, he's so physically imposing, you would think there would be this real second surge and kind of dig through and grind through the rep. Most of the wins are just straight, clean wins, or it's kind of a wrap. Okay, this is it for you.

31. And I still have, like, 30 players on my board. And yeah, one of them I alluded to briefly. your last pick. And we can mention the after we're done who didn't get drafted just as a little honorable mention. I have so many players to pick from.

And I don't want to be disrespectful to about six players, but I only have one pick left. Then there's a shoot for the moon pick. It's a projection. I'm going to take Ruben Bain. Let's get Ruben Bain in there. Now, this breaks my heart

to not have Khalil Mack on this list. And it's going to eat me alive for the next week. So I know that. listeners. And when the graphic goes up, don't kill me. But we're projecting slightly here. I thought he was the best passage in the draft. I think he's walking into the best possible situation. I think I mentioned before about what it looked like with Hassan Reddick and Dhabi as a kind of a two-man tandem and the skill sets aligning so well. Ruben Bader is just a

better version of that, I think, than Hassan Redick at this phase of his career. So I think he's going to walk in and be an absolute down-in, down-down-out menace. And we're going to look back at the end of the season ago. Why did we not just think he would be in the the top 20 pass rush in the league when he walked in as the best passers from the draft. Just because it's such a grown man position. And you can step in and have an impact right away, but we've also seen a lot of the best edge rushers kind of get halfway there their rookie year. Like the second half of the season, they start coming.

You can see the vision. Abdul Carter is a good example of it last year. And so, you know, when you're comparing him just for this year against some of the grown men that are on the board, like Cleo Mac. Yeah, I like it. I like your, you're planting your flag. I feel bad. Mack actually was literally like the last one off of my list, too.

Should I just take them then? Because I do have Montez Sweat higher. Some other players, we could mention Adafioi has not gotten taken. It's probably more disrespectful to put Kalil Mac behind Rubin Bain than it is to just not draft him. No, ultimately, the fact that he played Mac under 500 snaps last year, and then in each of the last two seasons,

I thought he's played at a really high level, but he didn't maintain it the whole time. And so that, to me, is age a little bit in a way that impacts where I would take him. I've always been a Montez Sweat guy, and this is not, like, he's not coming off of his best season. His time to pressure is among the slowest. He had to play a lot more in general.

had a lot more run stops because of that. He did play pretty well at the end of the season. He was active in those playoff games for the Bears. I think he's earned his spot here. I've never really been an Adafi-O-A guy. Van Ginkle, I mentioned right at the top, is certainly an option here. But here's the thing with sweat.

I think he could get better still. He's not past the point where he can pop up again. Because if you told me he's how he was two, three years ago, he would be somewhere comfortably in that like 18 to 20, range and he's still a very good player. Why should I be apologizing for taking Montes Sweat 32? I think Montesweil is a good player. I think even very good is overselling it slightly.

I think he's a slow burn pass rush who relies on craft and it isn't all that crafty. It's about three moves and the great ones lock him down because you can be pretty dialed into what the plan is. Strong though? Like pretty good run defender, complete player? I don't know. I think he can be gala after in the run game. I think he's really good on the end, heavy end.

I want to bowl people with all the details, but you just line him up and say, we're doubling at you. I think he can be worked pretty comfortably. Okay. So who are the people that should have made it or that hurt not to leave it? Daffei always stands out as a good free agent pickup,

10th and pass rush win rate. I think it's pushed game to shove. I would probably take him over sweat. I don't know why I just did that. Ben Ginkle, I mentioned. Any other shouts you want to give? Jonathan Cooper. I'm devastated.

We didn't get Jonathan Cooper from the Broncos in there. Derek Hall from the Seahawks. It feels weird to only have one member of the Seahawks in there. It'd be just a Marcus Lawrence. You picked Trayvon Walker, George Carl Lafters we didn't have in there. He might make some people. He was close to me. The Jets didn't have anyone.

I mean, we could have taken David Bailey. Will McDonald, Jermaine Johnson are all good players. If we were doing the top 45, I think they're all on that list. And so they were one team that didn't have one. You know, I've got my eye on Azaraku for this year. He didn't get close to me to quite making the list, but I do think, you know, it wouldn't shock me. I like Azaraku 40th on my board in case it was like wiped out.

So I really like Azaraku, no Rishang Gary. I think that's unusual for if we've done the last couple of years. He was close. Dallas Turner is not on this list. Quitty pay is not on the says, Osai, if you're going deep. But that's for next year's list. We're going to be doing this every year. You're locked in, Alex Wright from the Browns.

Yeah. As a breakout player. Next year, 30-second, lock it in. We're going with Alex Wright. I'm trying to think of teams that didn't get anyone. The Chiefs then didn't, if Karlaftus didn't go. The Patriots didn't have an edge rusher. Harold Landry would, I guess, be the first one from that group.

The Titans did not have anyone taken, so all of your fan bases can come at us, especially Ollie. That's it. We did it. Let's get out of here. Let's have a great weekend. What are you doing, Ollie? You doing any boxing? No boxing this weekend. I am looking after a puppy. It is a halacious household when you have a newborn puppy. A new dad. I love it. I got to go talk with my father-in-law right now. We'll be back. Monday, I mentioned a special show, Memorial Day, really excited about this. I'm talking to Chuck Closterman. One of my favorite thinkers, writers. He wrote a book about football.

It's going to be a great conversation. That goes on Monday and then we'll be back to the normal shows on Tuesday with one of of all these best friends, Will Gavin. We'll see you then. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.