NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - NFL Media Summit with Kyle Brandt & Ian Rapoport

Episode Date: June 16, 2022

A patio overlooking the Pacific Ocean filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring the podcast to Santa Monica at the annual NFL Media Summit, where they get the chance to break down corporate jargon and Gregg's clash with a shadowy league figure (6:10). Some news is covered (22:30) before we reveal the results of the Prime Meridian poll (27:45). The heroes are joined by Kyle Brandt to talk about Good Morning Football's Sports Emmy win, Super Bowl expectations for the Buffalo Bills, and Kyle's infamous greeting in which he omitted Marc's name from the group (32:30). Finally, Ian Rapoport sits down for a serious discussion focused on the sports media coverage around the Deshaun Watson trade (1:01:00). Note: timecodes approximate.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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On a patio filled with some heroes, Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler. And here we are at the 2022 NFL Media Summit from the Lowe-Sanamoica Hotel. And Mark, you got that glow. You got that glow. I'm in a place that I simply enjoy at this point because we are under large umbrellas that shade us,

a nice ocean breeze. crosses our face. I'm watching grown adults on swing sets down on the beach right by the ocean. The only thing missing is the fact that we're working versus in a leisure setting right now. Well, they're on the rings. They are not messing around. There's some high-level gymnastics going on. As you said, not southern, just southern California.

It's Santa Monica. This is my hometown now. It is. I guess it's not my hometown. You're adopted hometown. But it's nine years long, and it's nice to have a home game. If I may be personal with you, gentlemen, for a moment. I, as you know, native of New York.

And when I was 19 years old, I joined my uncle, Stu and Aunt Kerry and their children. They invited me to a California trip. I'd never been out to California before. So I got on the plane. I'd really never been anywhere at that point in my life. So we got on the plane, came over here, stayed at this very hotel. Wow. And it looks very similar as it did in 1999, right down to the grass patch right in front of the beach right behind us right now,

where I remember playing wiffle ball with Mike and Eric. And that started kind of a lifelong fascination and, like, a romance that I had for Southern California. And I think it played a role in me eventually coming out here. I just have kind of a romantic viewpoint of California as an east coaster, and it kind of started right here. On that trip, did you discover love? Did I discover love? I would say no. You were nine?

I was 19. Oh, 19. It would have been a prime territory to have an adventure. Yeah, it took me. I was never the guy, and I ended up in a very good spot with a great woman, Emily. But when I was younger, it took me longer to figure out how to do those things. And that meant also, like, you know, if you're the guy going on a trip to California, did you have a whirlwind romance while you were out there?

No, that wasn't me as a teenager. You were playing with football. That was Mark. You were also, you were busy. I have had trips like that at that age. I was, when I first got out, I feel like that's, that's the logical feeling. My first time out here wasn't until I was like for college internship or internship between college years. And it was like, I can't imagine coming out here and not thinking, oh my God, have they let people live here?

come come live here why wouldn't you think that it's so nice for a little bit the weather and uh just felt i just again as someone from the other side of the country is just like people i just like the vibe out here and i still feel that way i'm not i'm not a jaded californian now the first time i came to california on not similar to yours because i was not put up in a hotel i left grand central station in new york city uh on a greyhound bus back then you could get a one hundred dollar trip round trip to anywhere in the country. So I went to San Francisco. We got snowed in all highways, snowed in in Shayan, Wyoming, and had to stay in a hotel with all these Greyhound people for three days, then made it to San Francisco. But I had to pick my mom up at Cotona Station outside of New York

two days later, three days later. So I had to get right back on the Greyhound bus and go back. So I was in San Francisco for about seven hours. It's like the most insane story I've ever heard. Did you have any romance with any of the Greyhounders? Actually, there was a woman who had a child, but she was like a single mom, but we wrote letters to each other for a couple years after that. Sure. We wrote letters to each other.

All right. There you go. The little love letter to California. And here we are. Great show coming up today. We have guests galore. Kyle Brandt, Emmy Award-winning host of Good Morning Football. We'll join us in a bit also.

And listen, this is something that I feel like we've been building toward. And I'm a little nervous about how it was going to play out. I was, but it's like we had to get Rapsheet and Greg together, preferably with microphones on. I mean, by we building towards it, you're saying I, Dan Hansis was building towards it. This wouldn't have happened. This was you and your element. This is you bringing it together for the good of the podcast. Well, I think, I like to think it's beyond that.

It's beyond just... Content? No, it's beyond content. I knew we needed to get the boys together, Mark, and fireworks are expected. I think that when it's listened to, people will realize, against what Greg just said, that you had a higher purpose. And, you know, it's a must listen. It's a trench and combo. All right.

So, you know, don't, I know now you're really interested how it goes. But don't fast forward. we got a lot of other things to get to starting with any takeaways guys from the NFL media summit we used to we've been to about five or six of these things at least by now

why don't we start here because it's always fun Chris Wessling rest in peace good man Chris Wessling he used to document the corpo jargon that was uttered at these events

And just a quick idea of what it is. It's everyone that is on camera, on mic, that works on shows. Everyone's invited to this hotel for two days. And it's a series of speeches, seminars, you know, breakout groups. I saw it's middle management unloading a year's worth of meetings they've been to on us also. Right. And then upper management. It's mostly upper management.

I mean, okay, upper management. It's the highest levels of management. And then there's also a lot of producers. and people behind the scenes, too, who are here who work on the shows that we're on. The shadowy league figures step out of the shadows just for 48 hours in June. And as a footnote, I adore the upper management figures

from head to toe. Great people. Same. A to Z. Same. Anyway, what are some corporo jargon? Okay. This year, 22. Well, my favorite, this wasn't a corporal jargon,

but I just thought that Operation Hoya was very intriguing because it was truly a company secret plan, which maybe I shouldn't say it, but I don't think that gives away anything. And I just love that the company secret plan was named Operation Hoya. But for more corporate speak,

a lot of inflection point. Yeah, I heard a lot of inflection point. There was a lot of when you have success, we have success. Good. Or different variations of that. Good and true. Emerging avenues.

Oh, yeah. Emerging avenues. Avenues was a good one. That's the new above the treetops. Now, these are, I think at some point, these people view themselves, and again, I adore them as creative types. So they find new ways of language to describe very mundane business tactics. We were in a side session learning, like, best practices for social media.

They had, you know, people from Instagram and stuff. And they were talking about two fact. And I was like, oh, what's, I was thinking in my head, two fact. And that's just two factor authenticity. authentication, but you can't say two-factor. You just go too-factor. No, you look like a total. You got to save that second, half of a second of saying two-factor and go too-fact.

And by the way, if I, to use a all-time famous corporo jargon I learned here for the first time, I'm going to open up the kimono here and share with you power user. Oh, that was a good one. Yeah, power user. That's a good one. I don't know what it means, but it's a good one. We were separated into breakout groups, too, so we didn't all have the same exact experience. I think they weren't, in any cases, thrilling experiences, but they were different.

For me, it was. All right. That's the best part of the summit is those side groups. We'll talk about, maybe we'll talk about that later. Some are better than others. I heard this over and over. Explosion of content. Mm.

Yeah. Explosion of content. Actually, that's, I think, an evolution of fire hose of content. Yeah, well, it sounds even like a little bit less than fire. That's similar to what. Fire hose would come after the explosion. That's similar to scalable content. There was a lot of scalable.

You want the content to be scalable. All right. Anything else? I liked when they would talk about, and I'm not sure I totally understand this one, but it was, they would say things that we would take on a lot of friction, which just hits me a different way. But they were talking about like, okay, we're going to enter into the marketplace, and there's certain aspects here that's going to take on a lot of friction.

Well, that just sounds blue. That's how I sort of took it But it was a lot of And Greg, you are sometimes known to create friction One of my favorite moments Was at the very end of the seminar Second Day Where you rose your hand during a

Like a town hall conversation With the highest of upper management And shared what I thought was a fair opinion About something to do with the event And the head top dog The shadowiest of the shadowy league figures responded, I could not disagree with you more That was funny.

And this was part two because there was a minor irritation from the high-up exec towards Greg. Two days in a row, and this is, Greg is a good parent. So he left to transport his children to summer camp, Greg, right? Yeah. Okay, so summer camp. So yesterday he left without causing any, no one seemed to know, because it's like he could be getting up to get a glass of water. This time, it came right while this high-up executive was, you know,

getting lamb-based with tough questions. And as Greg sort of dismissively got up and rolled out of the room, a hyper stink guy came from executive towards Greg exiting that. So then this this encounter happened later

about a couple hours. So it's just another figure that Greg. Greg just has so many people that he needs to work with. It's one of your great skills, Greg. Also, the point that you made,

and it's too esoteric for the audience to care about and we should keep it a little bit behind the kimono. But Greg's point that he made after the top official on stage disagreed with Greg, sitting directly behind me,

Michael Irvin, who was either, much of the seminar either sleeping or talking on his cell phone at a low volume. He was just saying as the answer is being given shooting down Greg's point, he was going, yep, yep, nope, that would never work. Nope, nope, nope. See, here's the thing, though. I had many people come up to me and appreciate what I said because I was speaking to what a lot of... I'm just being a reporter right now and telling you what I saw and heard.

I get it, but I'm saying Michael was in the minority among the talent and producers that were there, because all I was voicing was a frustration with this event in particular and how we could do a better job with it in the future and as a company. And it was the exact same thing that literally every, not every, not literally every, but many other people were all talking about throughout the weekend. And I heard a lot of people after. And I heard one of the top executives come up after and almost was apologetic. He's like, I tried to push that same idea and it got shut down.

And he was like, talk to himself to not be worried about getting a phone call. But this made me more worried if he hadn't said anything. He's like, just making sure you're okay, though. I was like, no, I didn't talk about. There was one very talented female reporter that text me during Greg's raucous justice for Greg. So you did have support inside the room. You had support. And what is wrong with me that once you realize you're the person that keeps getting into confrontations with people at work in some way.

That's something for your psychiatrist. You have to look at what's the problem. You're potentially the B-line behind. I had another prominent podcaster at this company during Greg's confrontation. Text me, two words, odd fight. Because it was. And since I brought up Michael. I didn't say who it was.

Who else would it be? Michael Irvin. Do you want to hear one more Michael Irvin now because he's the best of these ads? And I give Michael Irvin credit. The man is a three-time Super Bowl champion. He's a legit, like one of the more well-known sports. personalities in America. He's at this event, both days, every minute, okay?

I'm not saying he's totally plugged in, but he's sitting directly behind me. And that's not true of all the big time talent necessarily. And he's so famous. He could be totally checked out, but sometimes all of a sudden, he's super checked in. And at one point, they were showing a, like a chart that was plotting, like, the traditional TV usage trends. And why do we need that? Why do we need that?

And the speaker was like, this is really amazing. And then out of nowhere, Irvin, who I thought was sleeping, goes, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, yes, it is. Wait, he's paying attention to the usage chart. I think he probably had, like, he was just, like, the same way on this show with sound bites towards a certain person. There were just maybe Michael Irvin's soundbites that he'd press play on to make people think he was playing in.

Oh, I wish he was on the show. Do you have a Mark sound bite you can just play at will? I have plenty. Yeah, just pick one. Play one just for fun. Oh, yeah. I'm with myself also. We get that, Mark.

We get there. Soon you will be. I'm having a weird day. I would be high on my list of players or other on-air personalities that I would take in a draft of the breakout rooms. So we get divided into three different breakout rooms, and then we go into a bunch of different sessions. And I've learned over these years, we've done these, we've done a lot of these now. That's, to me, that's the best part of the couple of days

because that's where some tough questions are being asked, where some upper management's feet really get put to the fire. Irvin would be high in my list just for, like, the comedy of it. He would maybe be fun in those rooms. I had a great, we had a great room, like, I had a lot of people that I would draft high. Like, who would you be your first draft pick if you're taking people for those rooms? If I wanted, like, hard-hitting questions and some real dialogue?

Anything, anything. Give me Jim Trotter. Yeah. First overall. Interesting. I enjoyed Mike Garifolo, as always. Okay. But we had Steve Smith in the room and Kurt Warner, and I was sitting next to Steve Smith and

Cort Warner. I was kind of like fanning out a little bit, to be honest. It's just like, these guys are still basically in the locker room sometimes in these sessions, and they speak their mind. And Kurt Warner takes, like, the quarterback encouraging quarterback leadership role. But then Steve Smith does the Steve Smith thing where he'll go on a 10-minute rant that totally takes the speaker and dissembles them. We're hoping, yeah, Steve Smith,

always very nice to us around the NFL show. Got to get him on the show. We spoke with him. He, like many of the players, get very early flights, maybe even before the whole thing's over, and he was out of here. But he said he's going to be in L.A. quite a bit this fall,

and we'll be coming on the show. We're working on that. We'll have Justin Handel reaching out to Steve Smith personally. Yeah, that's up. And then you have to record those conversations. Claibon would be very high on my list of the side group. Thank you for bringing up Claibon. Just one quick note.

Claibon was sitting next to, who were you guys sitting next to during the seminar? I was next to Jeremiah, not Jeremiah, I was next to Cynthia and MJD. I was next to Taylor Bashati and Ian Rappaport, who never showed up on day one in the seat, but he was here today. Wow. I was next to DeAngelo Hall and then Mark Ross, the former Giants. So Claibon is next to Michael Irvin. and I wish Claibon was here because I've got to talk to him about this.

By the end of the second day, every time Irvin would say something and laugh uproariously, he would like lean back and like make eye contact with Claibon. And then Claibon, by the end of it, he was like the Ed McMahon to Johnny Carson. Like, Claibon was like,

ah, you are correct, sir! And they were just having a great time together. That's amazing. That's amazing. Oh, we did that. I enjoyed that. That is amazing. Claibon, who, I basically stole his question when I was annoying the executive,

just things that he had been talking about, but had the worst take of all time. And it made me happy that even one of the great takesmen of our time, Claibon could have bad takes, which was that there was as many men's small items of clothing at stores as men's large and extra large. And I was just saying, you don't know the plight of the small man. Like if you legitimately think that. And he fought hard on this. And I was just like, this is no way.

wear near factual. He's wrong. He's wrong. Because a typical... It's like 70% large, extra large, and then you're searching for mediums. Like, in most men as small as me, they almost don't want to admit it, so they're wearing mediums, but they're too big, and it's like, it's not a good fit. Take me inside your world.

It's different. This is why you've got to outfit yourself when I make that trip to Tokyo. Judy Batista, by the way, a great person in those rooms. We had a great room. Willie becomes a different Willie McGinnis, and you get a real Willie, a little different than a TA Willie.

Willie was amazing. Colleen Wolf will just throw in one zinger. Oh, yeah, the box. So just be like, hey, would you consider having women on the NFL draft coverage next year and just seeing the executives' faces belt off at that question? The blood drain from the faces. It's important. It's important.

You want to add value in these rooms. It's cool, though. I think, I hope this is interesting to the listeners. I think it is. Again, it's the middle of June. How many comments did you make, Dan, during the breakout sessions? I said two words. Yeah, I kind of lay low in this.

I decided that anything I would say would probably only decrease my merit in the room because, again, it was high-up executives that weren't even sure why I was there potentially. Right, right. I like to throw in one or two, and I moved on for my annual. How are you going to monetize podcast question? It's part of the conversation now. We're on the right track that gotten more responsible. more respect.

And before we move on, I just want to give a shout to someone we've mentioned on this show before. Ali Banpuri had a moment. He is our writing editor, and a lot of the people who were in front of the lectern and had a microphone didn't really deliver. And it was a tough first morning, I would say. Just saying it was kind of...

I don't think that's necessarily fair because it's not an easy task. It's boring, though. And Ali came up there and was universally regarded as the best speaker of the entire... process and he got a rousing ovation. I mean, it was something. He did something very smart because he came up right away.

He lowered the microphone, a very tall individual. Got personal. He lowered the microphone like half a foot. Acknowledge that that was emasculating. Then basically said, I don't do speeches, so I've written it. And then he just perfectly read this amazingly written thing that came from his heart. You set him up with the self-deprecation. Exactly.

And then you kind of come in from the heart. That was good. We had watched him going back to 2013 and 14. I just wanted to, maybe we are now reaching the point where the listeners don't care, but I just wanted him to get his flowers. Maybe, Greg, because you do find yourself often in conflict, if there are things to take away from a Bumpurie in that spot, like how to get your point across without not wanting people to smack you on the side of the head.

Well, that's a different setting, making like a speech, and I've definitely had some bad ones of those, too. What if you could leave to a rousing? I've had good ones, bad ones. We're going to stick. a pin in this because I know we got to settle something for Greg a little later in the show. But do we want to, do you want to get caught up on any news or do we want to get right to it? Let me spin through real quick, the news and then...

Let's get to it. We're going to do some OTA roundup on Monday. I think so, do you want to do it as quickly as much. Yeah, we'll do it real quick. I just want to, this is a... At one point, there was a conversation about the NFL brother fraternity, and there was a term old head that's thrown around for the guys that are, you know, out of the league for an extended period of time.

And the younger guys look at the older former players as old heads when they come with critical takes about how their game's not the way it used to be. But that's been going on forever. So as Gerald McCoy who came to guest speak about NFL players interacting with the media, and he clarified that an old head is if you played before the year 2000. Because L Danian Tomlinson asked, like, who's an old head? And L.T. is fine. But Kurt Warner, Michael Irvin, they're in a tough spot.

heads. Right. L.T. came in right around 2000. Yeah, I mean, he's on the fringe, but you wouldn't define him that way. Anyway, LT, by the way, and maybe because of his jet ties and my favorite jet game ever against the Pats in 2011, he was a prominent player. He is the guy that I kind of still get, like, a guy that we work with that I get a little like star-struck by. L.T., Irvin, Kurt Warner, Steve Smith, in a way.

I want to get to know Steve Smith. That's why I love to have him on the show because he's just such an interesting. thoughtful, outspoken. I think the interest in a friendship would be equal from his standpoint. One of Wes's favorite players... I'm not talking about friendship. Well, no, I'm saying I...

When Greg was speaking with him, I sensed actual authentic interest. Him and Colleen are good buddy, so that's a good sign of a good man. And maybe Wes's all-time favorite player over the course of our podcast was Steve Smith. Nice up, son. Time for news and notes presented by Upwork

where you can build the team that will build your business, learn more, from Upwork.com. All right, here we go. A couple things. A couple things. And, you know, jump in if you care. And if you don't, I'm going to keep moving.

Mika Fitzpatrick signs a four-year extension. He becomes the highest paid safety in NFL history. 36 million guaranteed at signing. Terry McLaurin is something kind of interesting. He's sitting out mandatory minicamp with the commanders. Ron Rivera says, the deal will get done. Speaking of Ron Rivera, did you know that he had a copy of the First Amendment, freedom of speech, sitting on his desk? And he said that he's read it over and over

again when deciding what to do about Jack Del Rio, who made the comments on Twitter, I believe it was, or in the press conference talking about all sorts of nonsense. And he said, before he decided to find Jack Del Rio, who, by the way, has since deleted his social media, he read it over and over again, the First Amendment. I just don't know what's going on in Washington. No, the commanders do things in their own way. I feel like there's a lot going on. Have they started to take command, in your opinion?

Where are we at at the level? Command of what? Like, just, have they started? Are they getting ready to, maybe? As we all know, excited to really go ahead and start to take command. Where are we at? What's the percentage, would you say? Zero to 100.

Like, 100 is full command. Zero is, you don't even know what command is? 2.8%. Okay. Well, there's only one way to go. I'm not going to go lower than that, but yeah, it's low. It's in the 10. For where it's worth, Ron Rivera said he also had the second.

Wait, wait. Did you just start talking without your signature drop? You know, I feel like it's been established by this point. You're doing great. There you go. How will they know who you are? House and cocktails. Right.

He said he also had the second amendment printed out on his desk to read over and over again for whatever. Really? The right to bear arms? First of all, the first amendment. What are we doing, Ron? It's not that complicated. The first five words, you're pretty much good on the first amendment. Graver, can you read both of the amendments at the end of the show?

Sure. Just kidding. All right. Terry McLaren's a really good player, and they should get a deal done with them. But I just don't, you know, you don't know what's going on of that organization and whether they have the right infrastructure to get these things done. They've said, like, a week into the offseason that it was their top priority. So, I'd be surprised if not.

So, D.K. McCaff also skipped their camp last week. Rodney Hudson was one for Arizona. There's a decent amount of players. And remember, Carson Wentz is there now, and as you know, as you just heard, you know, you want him to be working with the star wide receiver of the team. I'd also want to sign a contract before you spend a year with Carson Wentz. That's fair. That's that provoking. Very good, Mark.

That's a great point, Mark. Thank you. I was legitimately saying it was a great point. Mark thinks we were making fun of him. It is concerning. That's a great point, Mark. When I say something that actually provokes your thought, that it must be verbalized, like, It's such a rare occurrence.

It's so condescending. It just stops the entire room. Good point. That's a good. That actually was a good point, too. Well, I'm on a roll. Well, that's a great point. Much better than the point DJ texted to Dinn, odd fight.

Odd fight. I think odd fight was on point. That's a fair. That's a fair. Jerich McKinnon, back to the Chiefs on a one-year deal. So watch out Clyde Edwards Allaire. There are no more free passes for you, bud. They got rid of Darrell Williams, too.

That's a moment for them. Colts, fourth-year, safety. Carrey Willis announces his retirement to go into the ministry. Kind of a cool move. Go to God, young man. I mean, it's absolutely something that takes a lot of integrity and belief in what you're doing and a surprise to the Colts. He's only been in the league three years and he's been a starter the whole time and was

going to be a starter this year. They have Julian Blackman coming off a big injury too, so has some real-world repercussions for the Colts. Absolutely. And that was News and Notes presented by Upwork, where you can build the team that will build your business learn more at upwork.com that was that was the closest we've ever had to like a throwaway news segment or just like a quick just getting caught up here's another corpus speak that um that it would not that new segment would not qualify did you guys

hear that the live games that would that they're going to put on the uh the new NFL plus plus app is the hero content which i don't know that's kind of our thing we are the hero content well not unless we that is something we should probably trade not in their eyes potentially Right. And they kept saying that, like, we're just going to, we're going to focus on the hero content. And I'm just sitting there being like, we're right here. I'm here. We are the heroes. It does remind me that it's been a while. I'm a little disappointed since I got a tweet. Like, how dare you refer to yourselves as heroes when the real heroes are out there on the battle field protecting your first and second amendment rights?

All right. That's fair. That is our point of view. That is the stance we take. It's been a while. I'm just saying it's been a little bit since I got that tweet. And, okay, before we talk with Kyle Brandt, let's share an update. The Dalton Scale, which anybody who checked out that episode, thank you very much.

We all, Patrick Claibon, included the Ed McMahon to Michael Irvin's Johnny Carson. I wish I had seen all that. They were doing the laugh. I missed all that. Handshakes, and it was like awesome. It was like, wow, look at Claybone. You do not want to be in the front row for this. Colleen had the worst possible seat, front row middle.

Yeah, it's tough. I was front row and you miss a lot. So the four of us with Patrick talked Dalton Scale, who is the new prime meridian. We each nominated a player and then we put it to a vote. And Justin, we got over 5,000 votes on Reddit and Instagram. You want to share the results? Yes.

So Kirk Cousins was the runaway winner with over 50%. That was Mark's. That was Mark's nomination. I just don't believe it. I understand why. I think the public believes it. I know. public is often wrong.

And this did not incorporate the hundreds, literally hundreds of comments received on Twitter and Instagram with people just like spouting off, A, their choice. They probably voted, though, too. They may have, but a lot of people also took issue with, like, one or two names on the list where it's like, just chill out, you know, like if you don't worry about the list. It wasn't really about the list, like Patrick Mahomes is behind Josh Allen or whatever. Don't worry about that. That's not what this exercise was about.

God forbid they lack context as, uh, Claibon explained on the last episode lists. Yeah. Yeah. And his nomination, Ryan Tannahill, came in second, 28.5%. I could live with that. Winston, who Greg nominated, 11.3%. I'm going to take third as a victory because you guys all dismissed it so much that at least I was ahead of one of you guys.

Yes, right. And Matt Ryan, only 9.5%. And I think people took... Just thought he was too good. Took issue with the fact that he doesn't reflect Andy Dalton as much because he had such a high piece. and now he's coming down, whereas Dalton was kind of steadily average. Sort of not what it's about. I think it's a fundamental disconnect what the exercise is about because I'm not saying

that Matt Ryan was anything like Andy Dalton. He was a all-pro. He was an MVP. He should have won a Super Bowl. But I'm only talking about the here and now. So I'm not factoring anything else than who Matt Ryan is now. I could see though. I could see why people struggled with the name.

I think part of it is Andy Dalton. But I also think people think Matt Ryan is. It's too good still. Andy Dalton was the Dalton scale his entire career. Matt Ryan was an MVP candidate four years ago. I mean, he was a fantastic player that went to a Super Bowl. So it kind of defied, I think if you're just looking at the tabulations, it's like it defies the concept. I know numbers, especially with this particular player, but I get hung up on the last two seasons.

Kirk Cousins is 70 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. And it's like that's the prime radio. But he's also the picture of frustration in a way that we can't quite describe. I can be swayed on some things in the way that the listeners voted and the way Mark put the case and the more that I thought about it, he does embody the Dalton scale in some way. And the more I thought about it, there's more good quarterbacks now, I think, than back then. So maybe that's a little part of the Dalton scale, too, that yes, Cousins has those great numbers, but where did you end up ranking him? Like 14, 15, that's where Dalton used to be back in the day. And, like, it's hard.

Well, Dalton moved up and down. Absolutely, but the bar is sort of higher of what the middle is of where you need a new guy. And I think the listeners kind of convinced me that Cousins makes total sense right now, and he's going to ease into that for the next few years possibly. I stand by it. I think give me a year or two. Cousins has to come down a little bit. I stand by James, too, by the way.

I stay by it. I don't know about the James one. We'll see. You're just high on James for some reason. You always have been. I don't think that's that high. The point is it's right in the middle. Yeah, but even putting him in this conversation is lifting them up.

You need a new one if you've got it. If we had to meet in the middle, I think Tanna Hill was a place we were willing to go. What, he came in second? Yes. I think we were willing to go there as a group. Of all the men in the NFL to lift up by choice, you often go back to James Winston. I'm not lifting him up, but he has some nice quarterbacking skills that's when he's on the field. All right, let's take a break.

And when we get back, one of my favorite people in NFL, media, Mr. Kyle Brett. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

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Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies.

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A champion in the realm of sports media. I mean, a man has a trophy. And it is a sports Emmy for his work with the rest of the team at Good Morning Football. Now he rejoins us on the Around the NFL podcast. What's up, Kyle Brandt? Hello, my friends. Thrilled to be here, especially specifically here geographically where we're sitting right now. This is like when the Brady Bunch goes to Hawaii, you know, like they do those special episodes.

I remember the Severs went to Hawaii once and growing pains. And this is the heroes. Go to California out on the beach. You look great. I feel great. You feel like a natural here. I don't think we've ever done a podcast with you in person unless I'm just like misremembering.

But you have a big shoes to fill because, you know, your co-host, Pete Trager was here last year, I believe. Was it the last time we did it in person. And he awkwardly held a microphone wrapped up with a towel the whole time. Why? And I still wonder about it. Well, he was under the hot burning sun. So we're in a nice shaded area this time.

This is a glorious. This is perfect. Yeah, we have the Pacific Ocean over our shoulder here. here at the low Santa Monica resort or hotel. Is it a resort? It doesn't matter. Kyle. When Traeger was here, Mark awkwardly asked Trager who he respected the most,

and then Traeger gave an honest answer and said Greg. Did he have any rational? Everyone was a little surprised by it. There was no irony to it. And he did have a rational. I think he basically just explained that Greg and Greg's football past allowed that respect to be greater than what he felt for the rest of us. You were in New York at the same time, like,

In the aught, so there was something there. There was a very easy non-answer to give it there. He chose to give the answer. Now, we settled that beef with him. Now there's another one to settle. Okay. Do you remember when you were down under for a project you were working on, a massive NFL fan, also a fan of your show,

GMFB, ATN, approached you. He was an actor, and you told the whole story on television. And then when you referenced our show... What happened? I'm nervous, dude. What are you doing? This is how you described it. Dan, Greg, all the guys.

And you need to know, and I know you and Mark know each other. Professionally, more than personally, at this stage, that that's something that's stuck with Mark for easily, well, to this day. It threw me for a loop. It's not as if it's such a large ensemble that it'd be hard to remember the other guy. But it sticks with me still. But I am a person who believes in ironing out these things. and I really feel nothing but good feelings for you.

You didn't think you felt, how did I say it? And all the guys. Yeah, you're just like, oh yeah, ATN, Dan, Greg, all the guys. Well, let's hear it again, just in case. Do it, do it, do it. Dan, Greg, all the guys. Damn, it's a tough beat.

It really, I feel the second you were teeing it up, Dan, I knew where this was going. It was only a matter of which name did I leave out. You know, I'm going to immediately relate. A couple of Super Bowls ago, when it was Bucks versus Chiefs, Burleson was doing the thing where he was interviewed, viewing like Brady and Mahomes and like before the game and Brady at the end made this nice

comments like hey Nate I love the show that you guys do I love you know you and Peter and Kay like just a great show and so I relate and I empathize and like I just I took that one right between the eyes from Brady yeah you just had to take it from me in Australia probably like hung over or something but I still apologize I accept your apology and it's I what I like about this is that I've now had a minor rift with two members of Good Morning Football and had and we solved it and got out of it too. Well, you know what? There's only two left.

So you've got the full set, guys. That's it. You have the complete box set. And I like to be a mediator. I'm efforting right now here at the Los Santa Monica to get Greg Rosenthal and Ian Rappaport together to work out some differences they're dealing with right now. But I feel like this one is squashed and we're good. So we can move forward.

What differences do you guys have that you're the same person? Oh, wow. Now we have been too. That was more problematic than anything that you said about Mark. But we awkwardly started to bridge that gap at a premixer that. Stress awkward. That Dan and Mark were too big to even show up to. Last night.

Oh, yeah. That was a fun premixer, too. You guys missed out. You know, they were here. We're here at this event. It's a long two days. It is a long two days. And before we get, I have a couple questions, Kyle.

We don't have a lot of time. We're in the middle of this talent summit. And we were told. We're making you work at your lunch break. Everyone else wants to find a show. If he was a good. If he was at the lunch right now, and Kyle, tell me if I'm wrong, you'd be subjected to a lot of awkward small talk with a bunch of people.

Like, me personally, this makes it even better because now I don't have to do things like that that make me on. Maybe, Kyle, you're more an extrovert perhaps. No, you're all over it. If I was not here, I'd be sitting here having Scott Hansen asked me how my kids are, which I respect Scott. It's really nice, but like, here, we're making some content. Oh, Scott, who tried to cut us in line today when, you know, very nice.

A lot of beefs to be. A buffet line, you know. It was not the buffet line. They're giving us suits this year. I think we signed this contract. This is not going to drum up a ton of sympathy with the listeners, but we're getting very expensive free suits from the old. Custom-made suits.

We're scheduled for 815, right? Yeah. Me and Greg, right on time. Mark, not your typical way. Roll in with your aviators on at 835. Hansen rolls in close to 840, and he tries to get in front of us. And, Greg, to your credit, you gave it to him a little bit. Did you?

I was just saying you are not cutting in front of us. Right. And maybe it gave it to him a little too much. Like, I was like if you were a little, if you were a little less condescending when you came in here, trying to, then maybe we would have allowed it. That's the exact words from Greg. Is that right? I must tell you one nice thing he did because, you know, I'm wearing a sports coat out as you, Dan.

We had to take this one off to get fitted by a very elegant clothing person. He was a fancy man. And Scott, Scott, what, nicely hung up this jacket I'm wearing on a hanger and smoothed it out. So he's not a total villainous. He's a very nice man, but he tried to say, like, Like he had some appointment or something like that. I was like, no way, are you big time? We're all here for the same thing.

Like, we would have been there 10-50. Scott also said he's taking a flight out of the country, and he has all of our episodes queued up for the flight, which if it's true, wow. And he's going to get to this, and then we're going to have beef with Scott. But let's get back on track. So, Kyle, again, congratulations on the Emmy. I introduced you as a champion.

When you won, when you're at the event, and they announced good morning football. And this was kind of like, you weren't the Susan Lucci of the category, if anyone gets that reference, but for many years, that was the territory of PTI, I believe. Yeah.

So when you guys finally get over the hump and win it, do you feel like you won the Super Bowl in a way? It was through it all. Yeah, listen, you go to the sports Emmys, and people call them the sports Emmys, sort of to separate them from the real Emmys, and people say it's political, and it's overdone,

and I don't care. It was awesome. We got a big-ass trophy. And if you know the actual Emmy trophy, it is ridiculously over the top. It is like an angel holding up the earth. It's so opulent. There's no subtlety to the Emmy trophy.

So I got that. And you get nominated and like, all right, so it's PTI, just like seminal program. We all grew up watch. Sports Center. Dan Patrick, Rich Eisen. And it was Bimani Jones up there, who Bimani is just characteristically kind of underspoken.

It's what he does, and so he just pulls it out and says, good morning football. And I lost my mind. Peter and I actually screamed in the audience. We're sitting right behind Mike Tariko, who would go on to win for, like, best host or something really prestigious. It was unbelievably cool. And, like, I just, I remember having, like, if we lose again, which this would be our third time, not. Like, have a cool losing face. Like, sometimes these guys go crazy.

I remember when Bert Reynolds lost for Boogie Nights, he lost to Robin Williams. And he was clearly pissed off. The most famous one is Bill Murray for Lost in Translation, like, had this terribly, like, sour face because he lost. And I'm like, just have a cool face, you know? Like, just be like, yeah, great job. You know what I'm? Sometimes they are too happy.

Like, it's a little too much. Like, where they go crazy for the person that ones and then it's too much. We've been in similar situations, though, Kyle. We know that feeling. Yes. When the 2013 Stitcher Award, the best new podcast. was stolen by our producer after she had it delivered directly to her house after she had already left the company. That was like a similar type of vibe that we felt in that moment.

That was kind of unique, though, because we got the experience of winning and losing at the same time. I mean, we grieve together as a group through that, but it still stings. I can tell it stings, and you know what doesn't have it won anything since. It's fine, you will. Maybe for this episode, we got the sweet vindication. My biggest takeaway from the Emmy is that finally once we cut the dead wood of Nate Berlus and we were able to win. So like two nominations with Nate, no wins. Nate leaves immediate win.

And so I don't think that's a coincidence. And we're a quarter of the way to Egotts, me and Schrager. The Tony is going to be next. All right. There you go. Now, I want to play another thing here. What do you got now? Of course.

Kyle stole the draft with his ramp up and pump up speech about the Buffalo. Philo Bills. Here's a little portion of it. In my hands, I hold the most important pick of this entire round because this pick is the only pick who will win the Super Bowl in his rookie year. And Kyle, now, it did cross my mind. And again, we sung your praises on the show when this happened too, because it was really fun and well done and the ramp up to get to the location.

Just masterfully played, sir. but I did think to myself when you took the bite of the chicken wing at the very end if that got caught in the gullet and you went down and you didn't come back up we've talked about this Greg with other things that what would be the appropriate amount of time that would pass before people would kind of be able to make fun of how Kyle we lost Kyle oh that was it for him yeah if I died on the stage right there choking on a chicken wing as part of the bills bit you know what I say William Wallace every man dies not every man really lives you know

If that's how I'm going to go, I'll go down in my Zubuz on stage. It's fine. Right. So that's like the Saturday, that's Saturday, right? Or that was Friday. That was Friday night. I feel like by Monday night's total axis, that's given enough time. Like C block, just have a little fun with it.

That feels appropriate. Right. Willie and Carr just chopping it up a little bit. We've often asked if we were, you know, go down in a plane crash. Yeah. What block of total access would we even be, would they mention that? This was the Damasek bit, yes. Would it be the crawl underneath maybe?

Would it be mentioned? We're in the E-block, I think. But if you died announcing Baylor, linebacker, Tyrell Bernard, like, that's how you went down. It's a national story. It is. I want segments done on it. I want Good Morning Football to do, in or out,

Kyle's death. Did we like it? How did he play it? I want to do a breakdown. Peter can do angry deaths in my homage with a sceptor. Please make fun of me if that ever happens again. J.J. Reddick is, you know, making fun of Stephen A for being insensitive about it. The whole thing would be amazing.

Now, and let's talk about it because you do what you guys do for GMFB. We go through the offseason, but we don't do five days a week. We don't do three-hour shows like you guys do. And I'm curious because you're a Chicago guy, and yet you've kind of gravitated towards the bills. How did that happen, first of all? Is that just from kind of falling for the team as part of the NFL network? machine or how did you become a bills guy?

How did that transition? Just organically. You talk so much about the teams for so many shows or for so many hours. It was a couple of years ago and I just like I started getting worked up and I was hyping the bills and I liked them and I was teeing into all those people not believing in them

and so you do some sort of rant and then people online like it and they're like do another one and then they win and then the team's like will you do one officially for us? And I said sure and so everyone's like everyone will be like dude like I had no idea you were from Buffalo. And I'm like, not only am I not from Buffalo. I have never been to Buffalo in my life.

I've never visited the city at the time. And then it just kind of snowballs. And so now people are like, oh, so you're a Bill's fan. I'm not a Bill's fan. I don't care if they lose. I'm an enthusiast for the team. I'm not a Bears fan either. You guys can just, like, divide that, right?

As people in the media, like, you like certain teams, sure. But like, it's not like you're an eight-year-old with a hot dog in the stands and you're going to cry if they lose. They are like that. No, we're raging. Raging professionals. I don't know. I agree.

I think that's a fun and healthy way to work in the NFL, too. Like, I think Wes had that as well. It's how the team of the Around the NFL podcast first came up is like, we really liked that 2013 Panthers team. I don't remember which it was. It was one of the Cam Newton Panthers team? Yeah, it was one of the Cam Newton teams. And we sort of, like, organically, you wait and see which team is kind of, you know,

float in your boat that season. And then you jump on board, and you have four or five of those because you like You like football, and they're attracted to you, and you're going to be at work Sunday. It makes that Sunday more fun, and it doesn't have to be as heavy either. You don't have to be, like, crushed when they lose. Let's be real, though. It would never, the team would never be picked unless West was 100% behind it. It was essentially the team of Westio.

Right. And also, Greg, using the terminology or using the phrase fun and healthy way, like, don't be condescending. Just because Mark and I ride or die with our teams or worry until. something happened with a quarterback. I just mean, you can handle it better emotionally, but there's moments. Yeah, I don't cry. It was close after the week 17 Jets lost in 2015, and we had to do a show afterwards. Dan was not.

That was the greatest act of professionalism that's ever been seen on the program. Are you on any text threads with Bill's players? Are the players themselves aware of your, not fandom, but enthusiasm? I DM just a little bit with Josh Allen, a little bit. We've met a couple times. We've had a couple conversations. So, like, I met Josh Allen's father in the airport. Joel Allen, who, as you know, is a farmer from Fireball, California.

Like, that is a man. That's a great name. Big-ass handshake. Super nice to meet you. Canned ham, Mark McGuire Forearms, like, just exactly like you would think. So I know them just a little bit. But other than that, like, no, it's not really like that. One little follow-up.

Are the Allen's, excuse me, as impressed with your summertime bod, as I'm, I am, you're looking very sharp. I mean, you've been on this mission for a while, but it's an impressive physique. I'm surprised it took you so long to get to this one. Thank you for saying that. I noticed he had, he has notes, and the first note is Kyle's body.

He wrote it down like he wasn't going to remember. During the media summit. It says Kyle's body. You could put your signature on that, give him an autograph? We should put that out on Instagram, yeah. Thank you very much, Mark. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm sure you have other better things to talk about than my body. That's too weird. That's the main reason we had you here. Wait, as a Bill's fan, wait, first of all, who's that second round pick that you announced? Terrell Bernard. It's going to be cool. You're kind of attached to him throughout his career.

And it's good that you didn't die because then he would have that sort of hanging on him, like if his career didn't go, like the whole thing. He would have to do it for you. So that's good. You guys will be connected. Do you think, though, that this off season, them sort of being the team. And I don't push back against this conventional wisdom, that they are kind of the team going into the season. They should have won the Super Bowl last year. I think if you replayed how it went, they, to me, were the best team at the end.

It just didn't work out that way. Now they're the favorite. Like, their fans get upset if there's, like, a list where they're not number one. Yes, correct. Or if their quarterback or their defense is even ranked number three. It's getting, it's a lot. And just knowing how the NFL works, it just even looking at the bills last year, the expectations were sky high.

And the offense coming into it didn't quite perform at first. Is there any concern? And looking at this team kind of going into the season of, A, you kind of have to handle the expectations as the heavyweights, but you actually haven't won in anything yet. It's one of the tougher spots to be. It's almost being like a Super Bowl runner-up. Yeah, Greg, it's terrifying.

Are you kidding me? The first game of the season is five miles from here against the Rams. They could easily lose that game, and then the sky has fallen already. And it's like I'm trying to think of a team, like, they had just never really won anything and that have expectations this high. Like, if they get to the title game this year

and, like, lose on the last second field, which is an amazing season. That is a bitter soul-crushing loss and a terrible wasted season in the eyes of the Bills fans. So, yeah, like, they're loaded. And we all agree that they're loaded as hell. But if I, I did a quarterback ranking the other day because June. And I had, like, I had Rogers won and Allen second. Like, they're like, I guess you're off the bandwagon.

You're out. I'm like, hold on a second. I got him above Mahomes, above Brady. Just because he's second, they were furious. So, like, the sensitivity is going to be. really fun to play with because if they start out like three and two fine disaster like the whole the world is burning the pressure would just build on them I don't want to hear it but there's like a just statistically there's probably like a 30% chance they don't win the division either that they're

playing a road game to start the playoffs everything went so right the last two years just because that's how the NFL is like I think they are the best team like they would be my pick to win the super bowl I'm not really even pushing against that they're number one of the power but that's just sort of, that's just how the NFL goes. I know. They were ranked 10th in DVOA last year, which people kind of forget about because how awesome they closed and Alan was just unstoppable

in the playoffs. But that is the one thing that would be on my radar is Ken Dorsey taken over Brian Daibel. Sure. What happens there? Because there were, if you really want to drill in on their season last year, then I know you were, that they really struggled in points last year with

Daibel. So now another year, the division, should be better it's not a slam dunk so it's it's going to be maybe not to not to you know get down on the bills at all but if you're a bills fan this season maybe won't be as quote unquote fun as the last couple because the expectations are so high that you're just expected to be back at the game you got eliminated at last year but you got to win that game yeah and the one after it how about when josh allen met josh allen can't have that happened that's kind of cool yeah the jaguar thing right yeah um moment

Yeah, they did have a moment. The thing that I think my bottom line about the bills in the offseason is, like, if they did not add Von Miller, if they did not draft any players, I still think they're going to be the Super Bowl favorite. I still think they were. Like, those things were all, I'm rich, screw it, purchases, like someone who, like, is just going to get heated floors in their bathroom because they can afford to. Like, you don't need to get Von Miller, but we're going to do it anyway. Also, we're going to draft a punter because he's the best punter anyone's seen in 20. Like, it's full on, like, one percenter. I'm going to get a walk-in humidor because I don't know what to do with my money,

so I'll buy stupid stuff that I don't need. They're that loaded. Something changed in their season about half-time of Tampa. Before that, the offense really wasn't the Bill's offense that we kind of remember it as. And my big thing with them that I'm worried about is whenever you go into a season, it's like everything is great except for the offensive line. It's like, well, that's a problem. And to me, like on paper, they're probably average.

and there's a scenario where they're significantly below average offensive line, and that's just like, it's not going to torpedo your season, but then you're just one of like seven AFC teams that has a chance. That seems more realistic. Finally, before we say goodbye, Kyle, and thank you again for the time. You're a pop culture dude. You just did a hard-to-kill Seagall retrospective with Simmons, which I can't wait to listen to.

Football movies. Football movies, okay? Well, we got to get a good one in there. I feel like it's been a while. It has. The last one, I think it's telling that draft day, which was, you know, all to respect, Mark, kind of a piece of shit. It is, it is a C, solid C. It gets brought up all the time. It was full of heart from start to finish.

Forget that. Kyle doesn't know this, and maybe our new listeners don't, that they showed it to us and they asked people from the NFL for. I'm just going to close over at Mark, but now we're in TV. But Kyle needs to notice. Wait, is this true? You know, you guys were consultants? We went to a screening for NFL media employees in 2013 or whatever when the movie came out. And then they asked, hey, if you want to give us some type of write-up, we might use you in the promotion.

And they really used Mark. And they used his quote, full of heart from start to finish. I wrote a long chunk of their advertisement. It was a long chunky paragraph where I tried to balance the, the, positive aspects of the film and its shortcomings. But at some point that, you know, they just grab what they want. And I put a full of heart from start

to finish. And that gets at the poll quote on like 18 posters. That's just the kind of quote that they like. They do. They like the full of heart from start to finish. That's like, it's a very cheesy quotes. It's a great premise for a movie that they didn't quite land. What about the idea? What if we get behind it as producers or

some way and we reboot it? And we try again draft day? Or original Any ideas that you had that we could kind of spitball? Well, the draft day thing, the first question you have to answer is, who's the team going to be? Like, who's that featured team? You know, it originally was the Bills. And then they rewrote it for the Browns because I think tax breaks or something where they could film it. Well, listen, I'm looking in your direction in terms of the teams that they would need to focus on.

And I think you have to have a New York-based team. And I think it has to be the Jets. And I think it's immediately got some edge. Yeah. I think you redo it or even there's a sequel or, you know, there's something. but the draft is always an amazing theater. Maybe you need more people in this scene where somebody comes out and chokes on a chicken wing

and dies at the end of it and then everyone just makes fun of them. Someone can play him, like Jeremy Renner or something. Frank Langella. Frank La Jolla would be perfect. Ellen Burstyn. Isn't that cost of his mom in that movie?

Or we do it's like a spin-off like a better call Saul with Jennifer Garner's character as a cap analytics expert. We just really dig it deeper on her arc. That's fine. Is it just ideas? Three-hour think piece.

I feel like the features have suffered because the documentaries are usually have been so good. I love that movie Undefeated, which is on Netflix, but I remember Is that that J.K. Simmons one? No, it's a It's a documentary about like a high school team. I just always end up loving those. Last Chance You is great. And to me, they net, like,

the features never match that sort of drama. We haven't had it in a minute. It's been a while. We'll work on it. We're going to work on it, Kyle. Nothing you have to work on, at least in the gym, according to Mark. Hey now. Kyle's body. It says it right there. on his on the notes. Here. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Kyle Brand, thank you very much, buddy, and maybe we'll have a cocktail a little later. Listen, Dan, Greg, guys, thank you for having you very much.

It's always a pleasure. We're back in a bad place. All right, there goes Kyle Brand. That was awesome. Also awesome. Late in the seminar on Wednesday, they brought out two guest speakers as a part of the podcast segment.

Podcast Power Hour. Podcast Power Hour. We were not asked to come over the stage. I thought it was going to be about our podcast, and it wasn't mentioned once. Which was fine. Again, I just kind of like to lay low for this event. But two ladies that have successfully launched a show called 902.

Oh, my God. Tori Spelling and Jenny Garth, the actresses. I mean, OMG, to be the official name. Oh, is that one of us, sorry. They came out. And then, of course, when the Q&A opened up to that, Kyle, a noted pop culture buff, especially in that era, Rosa's hand and asked a very direct question about a specific plot line

from an episode from 1993. Well, I think also... It's a great moment, and they had no recollection of what he was talking about. But they were, Tori Spelling and Jenny Garth, who, if you're of a certain age, are iconic, Jenny Garth especially to some of us, both were quite taken aback by Kyle Brandt and noted his cuteness multiple times. Like, I didn't remember that at all. Mark's projecting.

What are you talking about? They never said anything about this. They absolutely talked about the fact that he was. They literally, at one point she called him adorable, which I actually took in all the the player, the DeAngelo and Ladani and Tomlinson, who we were sitting next to, took it in the way I did, which is like, it was a nice pat on the head of like, oh, aren't you an adorable little fan? And if anything, I don't think it was a good moment.

I thought that they fought, he tried very hard with his. comment, I don't mean that in a negative way, but he was a subject matter expert. I'm not surprised he was, and I think they were flattered by it. It was an interesting choice, so because I told Emma come, my wife last night about it, and I mentioned to her how at least half the people in the room had no idea who they were, because they were too, you know, the people in the room, like a graver if he had been, you know, too young, they have no clue, and that shocked Emma, because she was like, what? That occurred to me as well.

How would they not know them? And I was like, if you're like 38 or under, you probably do not know. I think Spelling, you know, with her reality show, it's a little more on the... As a 1980 baby, I'll give you my babe Mount Rushmore from 1991. And I'll tell you, Jenny Garth was on that. Absolutely. On that side of that mountain in the Abe Lincoln spot. Abe was on Mount Rushmore, right?

Abe famously, you know. Anybody know? Don't ask me to open-ended questions. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson. Abe, though, famously. Not a looker. A gigantic man, but kind of not a looker. George Washington would have been a better example of a handsome striking man.

I think Abe Lincoln was kind of sneaky hot. And also, I think he'd get better looking at the more you knew him because of his wisdom and his oratory skills. We've got to get Ian over here. But Jenny Garth, Kathy Ireland. No arguments. Vanessa Williams. Go with that?

Didn't save the best for last. The best for last for me is Tiffany Ambertheson, Kelly Kapowski. And Tori Spelling, I know her more. Clever saved the best for last plan. Yeah, thank you. Saved by the Bell. She played Violet, the nerd, in a recurring role, Screech's girlfriend.

I wanted to ask about that, but then Kyle sucked up all the oxygen with his. And I said, well, he can't double down because then you're kind of, again, asking them to go down a memory of wormhole that they have no interest in going down. But I would have had a say, by the bell, violent question. You're a true pro. You're a true pro. You understood the room. Right. All right.

Understanding the room, Greg. That is sometimes something that I feel like you battle with. Certainly today with the conversation with management. I mean, I understood it. I knew exactly what I was getting into. I didn't give it. You know, I wanted them to feel me. You are the bad boy of NFL media.

But what happens when you come and clash with, one of the more visible members of NFL media, the newsbreaker, Ian Rappaport, drama between the two men. And here is the conversation that we had, Ian, Greg, Mark, and myself. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here.

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Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio. And together we host the NFL fantasy. Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news,

draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now. to learn more. All right, as promised, you know, I sometimes I'm the target of some good-natured ribbing about giving myself too many nicknames.

But I'll risk it again and let you know there's another nickname that I want to bring to the forefront. All right. The peacemaker. Oh, my gosh. And sitting now to my right. Of all people, I don't know if that's. It does not seem.

More like the shi-s-not-true. Sorry, great. You're allowed to curse on here? No, but I'm just giving greater. Sitting to my right is a longtime friend, known him for over 20 years. And sitting to my left is a work colleague that I've known for 10 and worked so closely with. Yeah. So to see a friendship.

I mean, do we have beef now? You just called him a friend and I'm a work colleague. That's just called reality. Go ahead. To see the friendship dissolve between Greg Rosenthal and Ian Rappaport, it's been difficult. So now we've brought them together, Mark, to try to iron things out. Now the peacemaker is going to back out of the way. And, Mark, if you want to jump in and help mediate in your own way, that's great.

Well, I think it's primarily the role of these two individuals to heal whatever's going on. I'm not sure that's a home run that's going to happen here because, you know, Ian is Ian, but Greg is one of the more hyper-contrarians on the earth. So where is this going to go? Ian felt like an insult. Well, no, I mean, I actually just put nothing. I'm not claiming to know your personality. I mean, at one hand, this is a manufactured joke to use a popular phrase on this podcast.

But on the other hand, I have people within the company coming up to me at this meeting saying, like, oh, what's your beef with Ian here? So this thing that you've started that in terms of making it public, you know, you're also trying to bring together. But I will mention a situation last night. It's funny because I saw Ian, and we're not the type to, I think, take things too personally. Sure. And Ian, I come over to a group which has some high-powered executives in this little

group last night. One at the NFL, one outside the NFL, a shadowy league figure there. And I assume we're going to ignore whatever's going on here, Ian and I. But the first thing Ian does is just like give me a big scowl face and like to make every I was just like, oh, me and Ian are in a fight. We're in a cold war. You could have used the peacemaker. That's right.

I was like, well, I was like this was not the sports. to do it. I don't think you really want to go through it in front of these people. I didn't want to go through it, but you can't ignore something like it. It's like if you're on air and you just... You don't have to make like a cartoonish mad face either. That was my regular face. That's resting Ian face. Yeah, resting Ian face.

No, it's like if you do something dumb on TV, like the only way to get past it is to acknowledge it. I like to acknowledge this Cold War that is happening for people who don't know. Greg and I have been friendly. Is that probably friendly? I've never been over your house so we can't say we're friends but we're friendly for a long time uh he will often text

me asking me for information and i will text him uh my various observations that go on on this podcast which i will listen to infrequently uh and other things i love this so much and it feels like a one-sided relationship this is a dad's favorite moment he's enjoying it yep um and then i saw a tweet by and i'm not going to talk about the topic of the tweet well we have to what are you talking about. But it was, okay, well, it was discussing the coverage of Deshawn Watts, and it was lumping all of the national reporters in together, as if all of us were on the same page in ignoring or deciding that the Deshawn Watch in coverage would be the same. And I believe what Greg was upset with mostly was we were talking about the football part of it, right? You felt

we were talking too much about the football part of it? I think that the way that it was covered throughout the process was, yes, essentially assisting Deshaun Watson's agent in getting that trade and getting that contract. Like that part of my feeling about it didn't change. That the way the media, and you're just part of that, you know. And we had a long conversation on the day of the Watson press conference because that day I thought was an important day because it was like the local reporters got in and I think got to ask the types of questions that the national reporters won't because

I think ultimately they had relationships that they were trying to protect that got a higher importance in the reporting on our network and on the SBN and on Fox and wherever else then just actually reporting what was going on here. See, I don't think that's true. But first of all, the reason the local reporter reporters got to ask Deshaun Watson all these questions and they did it again the other day at mini campus because they were literally there. So I have met Deshaun Watson a couple of times.

I do not know him well. I don't have the kind of audience with him where I could ask him the kind of questions that you would at a press conference. What I do know is that we have, and I believe I have, and Palisero has, and Garifol has, covered it, all of it. So when some of the accusers had a press conference,

kind of early on in this, I can't remember when that was, but it was... Last year, like August or October. Yeah, it was kind of when this had really started, we covered that. when there was a new lawsuit. We often covered that. I would not say that we covered every single detail

because there's been so many details, but we have covered the bad, and then we have covered, there's not been a lot of good, but then we've covered the football. And this was a time to cover the football because he had just been traded. It was all about the trade,

what it means for the football team, his contract, what that meant. And just because we were covering the football part of it, today, that day, didn't overshadow the fact that we'd covered all of it over the last several months. And that was my main point to you. See, this is, Dan, Dan's disappointed by this, because ultimately we're getting into, like, a nitty-gritty of, like, how the media... Don't speak for me. Dan has calmly set this up, and I think he's listening. I actually think, even though, yes, I like the heat, the heat's fun, I think it's good that Ian's talking about this, because this has been a

major part of the Watson's story. And Greg, you've been very outspoken. So it's good actually to hear from Ian who is in a very difficult situation. I mean, where Ian's role at the company and Ian's job is to find a balance of that. Right, but I would disagree that it was like, okay, right there was about the football so that was covering. My problem was with the entire six months leading up to it. I think throughout the process, a lack of context of what Watson was accused of doing and also how that could impact like what is moving forward.

absolutely made it easier for the Browns to give him this contract, made it easier for his agent to make this money, made it easier for his lawyer to keep fighting against it. And one thing I've really come to believe is that Deshaun Watson's the last person I feel bad for in this scenario. But I think the way that his agent has used his media relationships to gain favorable coverage. And that's not like pro-Watson. I don't think that's true. It's just silence. But what wasn't brought up in a lot of our coverage is all the negative aspects of what's going to happen when Deshaun and if Deshaun Watson gets traded before he's actually suspended before these cases were settled.

And we are seeing that now. What do you mean by that? What I mean is that I think the Browns and I think Watson in general are continually surprised about how difficult this process has been and is going to continue to be. And it never made sense to me for him to get traded and for all the business part of it to happen before the legal and especially before the NFL suspension thing happened because of this. And I think if the Browns knew how the last couple of months were going to go. And I think if Deshaun Watson knew how the last six months would go, I think they probably would have acted maybe differently. I don't think they wouldn't have necessarily gotten that huge commission for his age and that huge contract. I don't think it would have happened nearly as quickly and as easily.

And you can say, oh, that's him doing a good job, but it's not because this is going to follow Deshaun Watson forever. He is starting to dawn on him in the Browns, I think, that, like, this isn't going to go away. And I think one of the reasons why they entered into it is they felt like it was going away, because for the most part, it had gone away from the national media. And you think of the timing of it, I disagree with a lot of things you just said, but you think of the timing of it, the trade happened, was it? couple days within the week of him being receiving a no bill from one grand jury and then the next grand jury, right? So that was, so the trade. Now, obviously there's been two and then maybe two more lawsuits in addition to that. Obviously, there's been all these depositions, a lot of which has become public. There's been a lot of reporting since then. But the trade and the

discussions that we were having on air and in other places all happened in the context of him, receiving a no bill, which obviously does not mean he's innocent, but it does mean he is not going to be indicted by a grand jury. So I think that, those two facts, the two grand juries, did color the kind of coverage that we gave, which is he's not going to be charged legally. So that sort of gave a window to all of us, I think, to talk about the football part of it, which really paved the way for the trade. Right.

I mean, I just, we don't need to go in circles. And this is similar in some ways, but we, we got into it a little more, like in a conversation, like I meant. And it wasn't personal. It was just, I really disagreed with the way we, like, I, it's not just you that I talked to about this. I talked to some of the news editorial executives about this, too, because it was upsetting. Ultimately, we all work for NFL media, NFL network. You want to be, like, proud of the coverage that you can do, and you should try to, like, impact the coverage in, any way you can. And having

gone through the Greg Hardy and Ray Rice situations, which is very different, but that was at a time when I was having to deal with how we were handling that stuff editorial, I was kind of amazed that, A, we had forgotten a lot of the lessons in theory we had learned from back then, and B,

I think we were worse now. Like, because I'm not an expert in almost anything, but one thing I feel like I have good experience from after the last 15 years is how the sports media sausage was getting made. And I was seeing how people who are lining their pockets off of Deshaun Watson, namely his agent, but his lawyer too, and the networks and other things who wanted this to go away

for the purpose of making money were helping to make this issue go away. And it's not helping him. And it's not helping the Browns. In the end, I think, like, this is going to work out worse than any of them imagined it would. And it has. I would say the assumption that that they have all bought the silence of the media. It doesn't make any sense. First of all, we're talking about it here and in many, many other places. Two, I've not had anyone... We're able to talk about it on our podcast because no one pays attention to our podcast,

but we couldn't exactly have these conversations on NFL network. That is not true, though. We talk about this constantly on NFL network. We've talked about the allegations. We've talked about the fallout. We talked about the new lawsuits. Pelliserro did Total Access yesterday, and his topic was Deshaun Watson and...

the new lawsuits and so i feel like we do talk about it every time it comes up every time it's news we talk about it just like every time the football part comes up we talk about it what i would also say one thing we have not done is and this is not saying we should deserve like a medal for this i'm just saying we haven't really been like oh well let's just talk about how great a addition to sean watson is going to be to the brown's offense i mean we did plenty of that in the days after he was And that's fine. Like, you can have both, but we did plenty of that. I just don't want you, I just don't want you overlooking the coverage that we've done of all of the negative just because we spend some time on football.

Like, we are football reporters. I also wasn't doing this out of, like, the goodness of my heart. But it also, like, I think can help, like, our industry or you or Schaefter has taken, I think hits because of this like it's not helping you like and we are friends and I want your coverage to be great and stuff like there are going to be a lot of people that look at the way we do things in a certain way and it's good for you to know that you know what I mean like you'd rather know that than not know that I would assume I mean I'm I'm pretty well aware of all the things I report on and how they are viewed I just don't view it as sort of negatively as you do I just

I spent a lot of my time and a lot of my reporting work trying to figure out how to make that balance that you were talking about, right? Because, you know, obviously the off-the-field stuff is extremely important. And it's not just with Deshawn. It's what's going to happen to Baker Mayfield. Okay, well, is he going to get traded?

I don't know, but if he does, then he's not going to be the starting quarterback who steps in if and when Deshawn Watson is traded. And that sort of led to another many, many other news sites. I'm, I don't know, I am, as I told you at the time, I'm fine with my coverage. I know it has not been glory for all of us national media people across the board. I'm fine with the way I've handled it. But I don't mind you, I mean, you're sort of snarky and that's annoying.

But I don't mind you pointing it out because one of the things that I... In these cases, I wasn't being snarky. I was just kind of furious. I think he's saying in general. And it hasn't, like, gone away. Like, I've been surprised that it's stuck with me. I know. But I would say I, one of the things with me doing this job and being very public and not just news, but really all of the things that I do are pretty public is I don't really care and I don't really mind that all of the things I do get dissected.

Like, I don't mind that you're sort of picking apart the coverage. I take issue with some of the conclusions that you made because I think you're wrong on some of them, but it doesn't offend me. And, you know, I would say the jerky tone probably did. But the fact that you critique it, it's all out there. It is all, I mean, the same thing for Schefter. It's like, it is all for everyone to judge.

The fact that I disagree on how you judge it is sort of a different time. And I told you, like, it wasn't about you either, which was like that was the whole thing. It wasn't like an Ian Rappaport criticism. I told you, I could have made a top 10 rankings of the people that have offended me the most, and you would have made the list, but you weren't in the top four or five.

That's men, that's women. It wasn't just one type of person. We've heard your take on this for weeks and weeks, and I strongly link and agree with a lot of what you said, but we have not heard from Ian, and I think I'm very glad that happened. And now if we can find a way to move past this, I would love to see the men shake hands or perhaps even hug.

Is that a possibility? We would have never have hugged even beforehand. This is a peacemaker request. I don't think either of us are really huggers. I'm happy to shake hands. I think we did yesterday when we saw each other. Can we get a photo of the handshake? No, I don't have a photo.

Now you're making it into a bit. What do you mean I'm making it into a bit? You at the very beginning told me there wasn't even any heat, and of course the peacemaker has revealed there is plenty of heat. That was a wrong way to put it. You're absolutely right. It's not that there wasn't heat. Like I was disappointed.

in something. I'm sure Ian has been disappointed in me in many ways. Some of those tweets, I'm like, God, can Rosenthal just shut up? What if I were to craft, like, back in fourth, fifth grade, in the summer, when you'd make little friendship bracelets, you'd weave them, and one could have Greg's name on it, and one could have Ian's name, if you'd wear the other person's name on your wrist. Would you do that?

That's a fair? No. Okay. All right, so, but we are, are we going to be back on texting terms again after this? We'll see what he needs. Well, what can you offer, Ian? How about that? Right, what do you offer in this relationship?

Yeah, let's figure something out here. Comedic advice? I offer, in those realms, you know, I give him like these lists of possible cuts and trades. Hold on a second. I have given him ideas. I haven't given my ideas for breaking things that I've actually been right about over the years that I don't do. That's fair. This is not a joke.

There have been a couple times when he has been like, I was thinking about this. Does this make sense? Has anyone looked into it? And there's been a couple stories where I've been like, I should actually ask about that. And that is true. And then there was another, I cannot remember which. There was definitely a fake trade that you floated that ended up happening.

And I cannot remember what it was. A healthy friendship. Is that enough? Is he giving you enough? Yeah, I would say it's a couple scoops. So I think we're getting close here. We're bridging the divide. And I think we have to get back inside for the second part of the seminar.

I don't know if we're going back to the text. I don't know if there's a couple of. I don't know if we're going back. But I think maybe there's a post-seminar cocktail. Maybe we seal the beef with a drink. I don't drink. Wow. I'm trying.

That's a lie. That's a lie. Hugs, drinks, all out. I think you've created this. I mean, we could do a handshake after, you know, we're done. You know, we don't have to do it for. It must be documented for posterity. This peacemaker nickname you've given yourself.

The effort behind it today has been. Dish ingenuous? Thank you. My bad. I was trying to be on the same page of you. The best part is when we got our, we got our new contract. Yeah. And Greg had a really nice tweet.

And then me and Ian were texting. And Ian was like, why don't you put out a tweet so I could quote retweet you? No, no, that's not what I said. No, that's not what I said. Not what I said. I said, hey, did you guys get a new contract? He said, yes. I just saw Greg's tweet.

Definitely not retweeting him. You need to do a post now. And then he did a post and bang, retweeted almost immediately. So there you go. It's my job because I've been on both sides of this is to bring everyone together again and I think we've done that on some level. I don't think you've done it.

But I do love that freaking story. The peacemaker is spoken. Everything is okay now. We're good. All right. Let's get back to the seminar. Let's get back to Ian. Thank you very much.

No problem. Thanks, guys. All right, there you go. Can I say something? When we talked about the situation with Greg and Ian, it's like, oh, it would be good pod fodder maybe to get them on and, you know, just see what happens, see some fireworks go off. But then when the conversation started, I was like, oh, this, I think this is effective

and on a different level because I think it's good to hear both sides of this. And I don't think necessarily, Greg, you guys ended up landing in the same place. But you just had a better idea of the whole situation as naughty as it is. No, I agree. I think it's a good conversation to have, and I appreciate it having it. and our listeners being able to listen to it. I think that's, it's great to hear, like, both perspectives of it, and it wasn't, it was not necessarily personal,

but you told me that afterwards, like, oh, I didn't really think about that it would get, you know, that deep into the Watts and stuff. And to me, that, that's all it was about. I mean, it was a very specific to that issue. Like, we've been friendly, as Ian said for years, talking about news stories, and I still do have a major problem. I wish I had said that, too,

is like the story is still ongoing. And so that's part of it is I'm trying to make, I'm trying to change how he acts is what I'm trying to do. Whether it works or not, I don't think it's going to. I thought, Greg, number one, you did not back down from your position at all. And he also showed strength in his position. And that's what made it a great listen. I was an observer for almost 97% of it.

When you say it like that, I want to change how he acts. That's, I don't know if that's necessarily something that, is going to cause him to change. If anything, it might cause him to dig in more and be like, forget what Greg's saying. I mean, it's just that, just putting it that way, I guess is what I'm saying. It's not like I'm trying to manipulate the situation. I'm just trying, like, here's someone I know.

I think Deshaun Watson could use some people around him who, like, tell him things that, you know, that are different from the way he's being told them. I think the agent, who I think is really the one I'm talking about here, ultimately, and the power that the agent has over the media, and how like David Mulligeta has basically been like people should be telling him because ultimately I don't think they're doing themselves any good and I include that for Ian I don't want Ian to be remembered or to take a lot of criticism for how we're covering this and it still feels like we're

going down that road I don't get the sense you two will be vacationing together on Martha's Vineyard anytime soon here's here's the question I have and I was thinking about this after the conversation, you've taken issue with how it's been covered, but do you think if it would have been covered in a way that you found to be more effective or tactful, that would have changed anything about what happened with his, because I'm going to say no. I think no matter how the media covered this, there's still these NFL teams that want that guy, they don't care so much about the guy off the field if they think they can get away with the off the field stuff.

If I can get the top seven quarterback, top five quarterback at 26 years old, I'm paying anyway. So I eventually, I agree, but I disagree in that the way that it happened and the timing that it happened. I absolutely think that the media has an enormous impact on how these teams and leagues and players in it, everyone operate. And if there was a loud drum meeting, it wouldn't have just been Ian, but if there was been a different way that the entire media was covering it and there was still like a lot of pressure. a lot of negativity out there. I just don't, I don't think it would have happened in that timeline. I think it would have waited until he was suspended.

I don't think you would have gotten his guaranteed contract like that. I do think it would have been a different. I want to agree with you, but I can't. I think that there was a team, there were multiple teams pursuing him, and I think I don't think it would have changed it. I think eventually it all would have come out in the same,

same place. And that was more of the problem that I had. And here's what's even more cynical. It's like they're pandering to a certain public opinion, but they're going to go do what they want anyways. I used to have this sort of cynical view, even when I was sort of quasi in the media, that, like, actually we didn't have that much of an impact.

And you realize that's wrong. Like, Jimmy Haslam and Roger Goodell and all the, like, major players in this are absolutely frightened and hate, like, the media reaction and want to diminish it as much as possible. And when it's loud, they have to act. I mean, the only reason why there's, like, the Black Lives Matter and the different statements on the side of the fields and everything that's happening is, like,

is because of media and public pressure. Like, it's not from any, like, different feelings. And I would consider, like, this would be the same way. If there was more media pressure and public pressure, it would be different. I will say I have been encouraged because I think there was a frustration a lot of us had. when the deal went down with the Browns and you saw that it was all guaranteed money and even how the contract was backloaded to protect him in the event he is suspended, that there are the Jenny Vrentices in the world, you know,

that there is the HBO Real Sports and that expose they did, that the drumbeat has continued and kept the heat on Watson and on the league and on the lawyers. And it's, I think that's going to continue. And again, I think we talked about this with Ian, just that I don't think the Brown's anticipated this continuing this way. I don't think that Deshaun Watson did. And it's potentially just starting. He might be battling these things for a year or two in court.

And I don't think they quite considered how that was going to play out. All right. So there you go, Greg. And I just want to say we did get the handshake that was teased at the end of the appearance. We had it documented. We have it. Good for posterity. Thanks to Drake.

We had the. I don't know why to know. I don't want that. Like that is. What? That, because then we're making, like, a, that was stupid. What's stupid? The camera's on.

It's, it's recording everything we do. That's fine, but I don't want to be, like, playing it up for, like, it's like, George Bush, mission accomplished, you know, banner is dropping behind them. It's simply for our archive. Sure. Okay. They also, they, they, they, I found this, um, problematic, potentially. They refuse to embrace. Why can't two male coworkers who have come to an agreement on a topic?

Well, you have to know both the men involved. I understand that, but that would have been next level would have been, you know, maybe more appropriate. It's fine. You have, you know, different acquaintances, coworkers, colleagues that you go through life. And, you know, you don't have to have the same relationship the whole time. Sometimes you realize they're not for you. Well, you are a fine example of that. Yeah, Dan was so, Dan is so on top of this and we don't need to get into the details.

But he actually called me on his way home, I believe. uh last night still trying to um uh you know well the peacemaker doesn't sleep yeah it's not like the peacemaker takes off the headset the he is like uncomfortable because he you know he's been friends with ian as he said for 20 years and he's you know worked with me as a colleague with uh no friendship for 10 years uh too so he wants those two people to to stay you are my friend as well for dan for dan this is man i'm from heaven i mean this is like liquid gold to dan like uh Greg was pretending his feelings were hurt when we taped with Kyle or with Ian, and I did come up to him privately, Greg, and I put my arm around him and made him,

he stiffened up, he tightened up, like a porcupine, and I said, you are my friend, Greg. Yes, you did. I was not really offended. You are reading the room right that I'm. All right. There we go. Here we are. It's time to say goodbye.

I'm getting on a plane heading to Texas. Oh. so i might do the same i will be up there in um g bob's attic next time uh we're doing a show together so we continue on anybody else have anything to say thank you to everybody for listening thank you to ian thank you to kyle thank you to the listeners till monday heed the call full of heart from start to finish delivers on the great tension of the NFL draft

while showing how human the entire process is well now hold on mark sessler nfl.com around the league that's the banner ad running across the home page where's the music from had it when did mark become I was him what was that that was the reviewer

I asked the Gold Center to deliver me some background music with emotional heft. That was a great... I thought that was Dances with Wolves potentially. I was eternally vigilant while I was watching the movie, waiting just to jump over some scene that really wouldn't happen in the NFL. And for the most part, I thought it rang pretty true. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective. you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant.

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