NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Offseason narratives

Episode Date: May 26, 2015

A room filled with heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler -- react to the latest NFL news including Ray McDonald's release, Adrian Peterson's situation with the Vikings and Cam Newton's big goals (20:04). The guys then discuss the offseason narratives they don't trust.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast is a workout wonder. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis, and I am joined by a room filled with heroes. Mark Zessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. Back together, the whole group.

Yes, the group's back. I thought. You know, Colleen Wolfe did a great job filling in on Thursday, but, you know, no substitute for the real thing. We got Mark back from his Don Draper, Dick Whitman-like sojourn up the California coast. We got Greg who went off to New England and, you know, hung out with the family, which I'd like to see you connecting with your roots like that, Greg. So welcome back, boys. Well, we come back and there's just a firestorm of activity around here in the NFL and the office.

inter office fights all sorts of things a lot of drama today yeah but it will it should be noted that before we came on there was a legitimate beef between wes and td that can't not be discussed that's what i was talking about yeah well it's made us a little i feel a little uncomfortable but i you know you guys got to work it out uh t d we're bringing a little early uh today how are you how's going guys how's going yeah let's work through it because uh west and i came through the door and TD immediately got on Wes about some choice of words on Twitter and what happened, the exchange was legitimate

and, you know, a lot of raised voices and some upset people. So if you guys want to work it out right now, the floor is yours. I apologize for calling you a name, TD. Wow. It was good. I never heard Wes.

Wes, you know, you're my boy, man. You know, if I had a fur drop system was working right now, a little return of the Mac, you know, just to show you some love. I mean, it's all it was. You're going to talk it out. West didn't mean anything, you know, bad by it.

I just, you know, I took it kind of strongly. And, but, you know, it was a little Twitter conversation talking hoops, you know, little barbershop who's better, top five, all that stuff. It is, it is final season or the NBA playoffs season. Bird versus LeBron. I take LeBron, you know, and he takes Larry, you know. No, I don't. I took exception to you saying clearly when you hadn't even watched one of them.

Well, I think it's, I think it's clear in the sense. I don't like where this is going. I just think it's clear in the sense that one's LeBron, you know, I mean, not this and Larry Bird at all. I don't think it's a landslide by any means. I just think one's LeBron and all the numbers favor LeBron. Well, hold on. One item that we're getting the milk toast, you know, watered down version of this

where you're on air now and you're being very amicable to each other. The ratings would assort if they had heard what was going on 10 minutes ago. Brandon McGinnis, behind the glass, is there any chance that we have that audio that we could save for when the show is world famous And that could be like our behind the music, I think. It got canned already. It's usually the other way around. There's usually a lot of fake beef that we're playing up more than really is.

This is a legitimate heat. I loved it. And now you're playing it. I was dancing. I was literally dancing when it started. And then when there was like an F-bomb drop, that was like, uh-oh. Well, nothing makes Dan happier than watching his friends argue with each other and put each other on edge. Yes, until it goes too far.

And then I get uncomfortable. That's and that's what happened So you guys aren't happy now Because we're not going at each other's throats Well, it's a little bittersweet What's happening? Basically Well, no, we can't just keep going

At each other's throws We handle it, you know Hashed it out and you know Like I said West is my guy He's apologized If I don't have a headset on I'll come and give him a hug That's enough if you're not going to keep fighting

We'll take that time All right big show today Big show today We got the whole team back together And you know Tidi behind the glass And Wes and Tidee Working things out

and maybe that won't last after we go off the air, fingers crossed. But we have a lot to get to some news to catch up on since our last show was last Thursday. So some things to go through. We're also, you know, we should do a little bit of a minor post-mortem of the Dalton scale, which was our show last Tuesday, which is done very well in terms of metrics, which gets Greg excited. Old Greg, who sits in a different section of the newsroom now, him and his management cohorts must be lighting cigars celebrating our 100,000 downloads.

Lighting $100 bills and then lighting the scullors. We don't do any work. We just have all of our computers open and just watch dollar bills. Work minions. So we'll touch on the Dalton scale because I think we all admit that still we're working it out now after that discussion. We'll also get into a conversation piece. Offseason narratives we do not trust. and Mark really stepped up, came up with that idea.

He's looking for that second inter-office corporate MVP award. I really like Dan is emptying the notebook of all grievances at this point. Well, this is a fair one. I think that we've come up with this before. I think I just recycled what was probably someone else's idea. It's a bit of a Sessler special because no one hates off-season tropes and rewriting the same sort of article each year more than Mark Sessler. And I don't blame you.

That's a good corner of it. to be out. Good. So we'll hit that. We'll each throw one out and we'll have a nice little discussion about that. So that's the plan for today. But before we do get into that discussion, we need to, again, touch base with TD, who is a real lightning rod for debate. You know, tempers flare sometimes, but, you know, we all work it out in the end. Let's do some news, buddy. How are you? I am good. I'm excited. Let's go ahead and do it. Okay. That's one small step for man And I initially had that set up for manned

And I initially had that set up for a news bit Which you would hear later on But I'm changing that right now To the fact that that's for the fact that Chris Wesleying apologized I have apologized in the past Surprising That Tom Petty song I Won't Back Down was about Wes I love you guys knew that.

All right, let's never change, Wes. Let's get into it. We'll start with Adrian Peterson, who has not played a game in forever and now is not suspended, so it was eligible to return to the field, and you would think to get back in the mix and all that. But we're not seeing it yet. The second round of OTAs have started for the Vikings, and Adrian Peterson is at home in Texas and plans not to be a part of this OTA round. Ian Rappap Report reported that the plans are fluid for Peterson.

It could change in any time. But as far as OTAs go, he doesn't want to be involved. So it seems like there's still something cooking here. You would think at some point the bad blood would be either washed away or set to the side on some level and that he would get back to football. But this is continuing. Greg, what does it mean? I don't think it means anything.

It's voluntary work. There's a million veterans around the league skipping OTAs because they don't like something or they want to work out on their own. So it's not surprising at all to me. The real next step would be if he skips work where they can find him, like mini-camps. And even then I wouldn't take that too seriously. Yeah, but isn't it a little bit weird that a guy that hasn't played in so long,

it was week one of last season? Wouldn't you think you want to be back in the mix if there was ever a time to report earlier to the off-season programs? It wouldn't it be this year? I don't know. To me, it smells a little funny. They're still negotiating. They're trying to get more money. West doesn't think that's the only thing going on here. Well, I know it's not the only thing. Well, he's not happy.

He's come out and said that he doesn't like the way he was treated last year. He doesn't trust certain members of the organization. And his wife, especially, is not comfortable going back to Minnesota. Wife stuff. Well, I mean, also, if you really want to push the envelope, I kind of fall on Greg's side where I think this is going to wash away in a month and he'll be back. But if the bad blood is really there, if you really want off this team, you've got to play brinksmanship. You can't just show up three weeks from now.

I think that's a big part of it, that his agent is talking now, and sources close to him are telling Yahoo and Bleacher report that he doesn't want to be there. And I think that's part of it. You've got to do a little brinksmanship to make sure you have some kind of leverage and get your point across. Zimmer even said, I think I have an indication of when Peterson will show up, which is when the Cowboys play them in what week 10 or so? So, I mean, I think he knows maybe through Peterson personally that when it comes time for training camp

and for the real work to be done, Peterson's going to be there. They'll work out this contract stuff. And like a lot of contract stuff, it sometimes takes through July. And we'll get a little more into this later in the show when we talk some narrative stuff. But, yes, something to keep an eye on, the best running back in football, not involved with the Vikings camp so far.

Moving on, the Chicago Bears have released defensive tackle Ray McDonald. This happened on Monday hours after he was arrested after being involved in another domestic violence incident in California. General manager Ryan Pace had this to say, we believe in second chances, but when we signed Ray, we were very clear what our expectations were if he were to remain a bear. He was not able to meet that standard, and the decision was made. to release him. Of course, McDonald has a history of issues with the law, including he was released by the Niners back in December after being named as a suspect in a prior investigation for sexual assault. So, McDonald, now is washed out with the Bears without ever playing

game. Is this, Mark, is this the last time we'll ever see Ray McDonald's in the NFL? Well, I think it's certainly gotten a lot closer to that place. I don't know what, I think the Bears' higher-ups above the GM and above the coach, were very heavy. to bring on any player like this to start. They let the GM go out and make his own call, and there was a real short leash. And I don't see another team jumping on this, no matter how their need is anytime soon.

No, I'd say it could be the end. We'll see. I just saw last week John Clayton was throwing out a few teams that he thought might be good fits for Ray Rice. Sorry, Ray Rice. Ray McDonald just screwed your chances of getting a new team. I read that too, but I have to look at these is case-by-case items, but other people were saying the same thing.

You would think they would look at him on case-by-case, but I think he's radioactive right now. Rapsheet said his career is likely over, and he's basically just connecting the dots because Ray McDonald isn't at, it's a sliding scale for justice or whatever you want to call it in the NFL. If you're good enough, people will look past it. That's why Greg Hardy's on a team. If Greg Hardy was a mid-level pass rusher, I don't think he'd be on a team. And Ray McDonald's good, but he's not great in this second offense.

Now people aren't going to sign him. I think this is the difference between today's NFL and the NFL of 2010 was I think he would get another chance five years ago. And I don't think it would happen now. And one thing that annoyed me. Is that so bad? No, no. And that's the point I was going to get to is I was working yesterday.

So I was plugged in on tweet deck and seeing all the, you know, the Twitter moral integrity police were out and everybody's like oh now it's time to start you know we got to get tougher we got to start docking teams draft picks when their players get in trouble and all these crazy things like no this is actually things are working actually it's better now he gets arrested and the bears don't even wait they say you know we don't want anything to do with you or at least the day it happened now he's probably out of football it seems like there is some change coming so all the people that were like taking shots i thought at the NFL and giddell in this case i thought we're out of bounds because there are strides being made in this department.

We always say that America is a land of second chances. If you acknowledge your mistake, you get a second chance. Ray McDonald has made multiple mistakes. Ray Rice made one. And Judy Patista wrote an inter-ethying article pointing the finger a little bit at the McCaskey, the ownership group in Chicago and general manager and Fox, really making the point, if Ray McDonald is not a transformative player, why are any teams taking risk on these?

and should ownership or the GM, should they be taken to task a little bit or even punished? I mean, I don't know. In this case, it seemed like it was a last chance because it's a known defensive coach and Vic Fangio that knows what he has in this player, and that's probably why the connection was even pushed for on any level when you're trying to install a new defense.

But who's going to take a chance now? I don't see it happening. How are you going to punish someone for taking a chance on redemption? I mean, I don't know. I guess you would just punish a lot. Nothing's fair here, but maybe you come up with a system where teams get punished for any arrest. Awful. Why?

It doesn't make any sense. Why would you hold a team accountable for the actions of someone they can't control? I'm with Dan, I think that the system has gotten, whatever it is people reacting to, has gotten a lot closer than it was even a couple years ago to, you know, pretty heavy-handed punishments. It's pretty random, but we come down, we come down, you know, criticizing GMs or owners, for random things that happen to them all the time. Well, then you're going to get teams that are drafting only high character-type players, which is fine, except that's maybe not the best players.

And guys like Josh Gordon will be out of football. And everyone will have a scarlet letter on them. I don't think that's the answer either. I guess it does seem a little hypocritical that the NFL puts these issues as so to the forefront. And yet their owners and GMs don't have to do. anything different. They're going to sign anyone like Greg Hardy or anyone like Ray McDonald like they can if they can help their team get 5% better. So then just shut up about it. Don't try to be the moral high ground if you're not going to do it that

way. Moving on. So Robert Griffin the third famously, or Robert Griffin 3, Mark, your preferred. That's what I say. You know, he hasn't been the same guy since that knee injury in the 2012 playoffs. It's been what, two poor seasons since and he's had more injury issues and all that stuff, got benched last year. Mike Shanahan no longer his coach anymore, but, you know, someone asked them about it, KJF, WJF, A.M in Washington asked about Griffin and Gruden, had this to say about the struggles. I don't think getting hurt has anything to do with it.

I think what you do is you rehab yourself and you get better. You don't have to have great running ability to run the read option. You have to be able to know when to slide, when to throw the football away. depending on if you're running or passing. Gentlemen, it sounds to me that Mike Shanahan is still of the feeling personally that RG3's inability to grow as a football player got him fired. What do you think? Well, I think that's part of it.

I mean, you can't. I saw other sites writing about this story. You can't write about this story without pointing out that Shanahan has a vested interest in driving the narrative that RG3's career was not affected by the injury. Because it was Shanahan's decision to leave. him in the game. That's fair. Shannon took a ton of heat for that.

Although, I mean, any quarterback that you look at that successful long term, durability is a huge part of it. I mean, our top quarterbacks are guys that play 16 games year after year. And I think that injuries have absolutely shaded what RG3 has been able to do in terms, especially two seasons ago, coming back too early potentially. I'd take it a step further with Shanahan covering his ass. He's basically saying this guy, he's not a, he's not a, he's not a, good football player and that's why it didn't work or he didn't work hard enough or whatever it was

going on he doesn't have the skills to make up for the injury that it's not the injury and that's why I'm out of coaching please hire me give me millions of dollars to flush down the toilet give me a break do you guys remember the 90s that's his bitch whenever he goes in for an interview and by the way the shanahan's have been pushing this narrative about RG3 since they were in Washington I mean all those stories coming out about that were pretty negative about RG3 throughout his comeback and really the rest of the Shanahan era, where do you think those are coming from? I don't know, but it's two coaches in a row that don't seem enamored with RG3, the person,

not only the player, but the person. So it's been maybe not the easiest quarterback to adopt for Jake Ruden either. Shanahan's comments were kind of mixed too. He also said Robert has a lot of abilities, a charismatic guy, he's got mobility, he's got arm strength, he's a very bright guy. So he seems to be a little, I don't know, ambivalent here. Greg, you are a Tyrod Taylor fan, correct? No, not really.

That's more of the West. Someone went to the soapbox. Oh, I have predicted that Tyrod Taylor will beat out Matt Castle for that job. That's right. Well, listen, this is good news for you. It's certainly, at least the talking points out there being put out by the bills, tell us that Tyra Taylor is going to have a shot at this in a competition with E.J. Manuel and Matt Castle, general manager, Doug Whaley.

said last week in a conversation with the bill's website the way they're structuring practices everyone is getting a run with the ones so it's a fair shake fair shake west in this system that we're trying to figure out who is going to be the number one it's all about competition that's why everybody involves excited about it you know everybody's excited about it except for bills fans and people that look at you know outsiders that look at the roster and sees something's exciting but that position is going to ruin their season but i guess tyrod taylor and e.J. Manuel are excited This is only news because nobody believed what the bills have already told us that Tyrod Taylor

is getting first team reps, equal reps with everyone, that Rex Ryan has a man crush on Tyrod Taylor and has for a while tried to trade for him when he was with the Jets. So, I mean, of course Tyrod Taylor's in this. That great beacon of a QB knowledge, Rex Ryan. Yeah, but Rex has definite, he has a fetish for running quarterback. Yes, he does. It's his biggest crush since he brought Tim Tebow to the Jets. that.

He had Brad Smith. He had Jeremy Curley running the Wildcat. I mean, no matter who's been running the offense, I think it's from a defensive side. He knows what's tough for him to stop. Right. And he wants, I think Tyrod Taylor is a part of this offense. The starting quarterback, I don't know.

I think when you face a Tyrod Taylor type of quarterback or Tim Tebow, it makes the defensive coaches prepare for an extra hour or two. And then Rex is just there at two in the mornings. Ah, screw these guys, I need one of those quarterbacks. I mean, that's like, that's all it is. Yeah. Well? Anybody else have anything to say on this?

Like, I literally, I'm tapped out on the Bill's quarterback competition and may. Well, it means they don't have one. Well, they don't have a quarterback. Well, you can say all you want. And maybe Tyrod Taylor emerges to be more than we thought. And I know this isn't what Rex Ryan said, but it was John Harbaugh that said more than once, we're not happy with this guy.

He didn't develop the way we wanted him to. So if Rex Ryan had a man crush on it, that's great. But it's Rex Ryan, and how many quarterbacks has he discovered? What about your boy, the O.C? That's a different story. Greg Roman, you know, he knows what. But he's used this type of a quarterback before. So that's more evidence in Wes's corner if Wes is the one who I believe historically has been pushing for Tyrod Taylor's career to flower.

I don't even care about Tyrod Taylor. Yeah, I don't want to see Matt Castle starting NFL game. I still think Castle is their week one starter, but I'm a little less confident than I was a month or two. A little less confident for my McFadden versus Castle. I'll get the most starts, but yeah. The rhetoric is starting to affect Greg's minds. It's a long off season. All right, let's move on and talk about a different quarterback,

a better quarterback than Tyrod Taylor or any of those other flunkies in Buffalo. Ouch, that seems little harsh. But a man that has a very high opinion of himself. That's Cam Newton, who was on a, he spoke to a radio station, and it was told of him that he was one of the great unknowns, greatest unknowns at his position or that's how many view him and his reply was this absolutely not

and I say this with the most humility but I don't think nobody has ever been who I'm trying to be nobody has the size nobody has the speed nobody has the arm strength nobody had the intangibles that I've had I'm not saying that to say I'm a one-on-one type of person that this league will never see another no I'm not saying that hear me out

I'm just saying that so much of my talents have not been seen in one person person. Wes, you take the initial takeaway? This guy is a treat. I say this with the most humility. What did?

There's not an ounce of humility in that. What the heck is he talking about? I mean, what he's saying, I get what he's saying, and he's right to some degree, his combination of size and speed and strength and all that.

But at the same time... Accuracy? Oh, the accuracy, maybe not, below 60% for his career or around there, and also 30 and 31 record as a starter. There seems to be a lot to work on. And, you know, it's been around a while now since 2011. Maybe it's time with all these attributes that he speaks of to become the big guy, right, Greg?

I'm not sure if he knows what intangibles mean. Or humility. Using the context. I don't have a problem. I mean, this is what quarterbacks think of himself. Newsflash. Dan Marino thought this about himself. Tom Brady, in his heart of hearts, probably thinks this about himself.

Cam Noon's a little more open about it. People said it about Michael Vick. Right. And maybe they're on the track for the same type of career. I don't, well, that's an interesting one. Yeah, I don't have an issue with him being confident and speaking out. It's kind of fun to talk about. And I say this with the most humility.

I'm going to start starting all my statements with that. But to me, it does, if anything else, it actually, to me, achieves the opposite effect, Mark, in that, yeah, oh, yeah, that's right. This guy's, you know, he's got all these. stud attributes and he hasn't been that great. He's been around for four years now. He's entering year five. Any quote that wanders on and on like the one that we just read tells me he doesn't really know what he's talking about when it comes to where he stands among other quarterbacks to begin with. And I could think of five quarterbacks off of one hand that

wouldn't want to be him in the NFL right now anyways. But I think he was saying that he hasn't brought out all that talent yet. I mean that he's saying so much of his talents are in one person, that's who he's trying to become, is a different type of player than maybe we've ever seen. Is Cam Newton paying you to walk back his quote? I could see that argument. I would take it from Cam Newton a lot faster. He's a unique talent.

Right. Then some of these other quarterbacks that in year four or five were still, listen, here comes the big breakout season from Andy Dalton or fill in the blank. Like with Cam Newton, I do think that there's a lot more there that the right coaching and the right scheme could bring out. But at the same time, why is he even saying this? Because he's a preening schmo. But I mean, what is the point?

Because it's like if anything, Cam Newton has made it very clear that he has parts of his game that needs so much work that this quote doesn't fit who he is right now. I don't think, I think you're selling, Dan, I think you're selling a little short what he's accomplished so far and where he is in the quarterback, you know, echelon. Maybe he's right around 10. If he doesn't get any better for the next seven years, they'll keep signing him to contracts in 20, 25 teams. would like them as their starting quarterback. He would be the next Jay Cutler. No, he'd be better than that. When Jake Cutler was four years into his career,

was thought of more highly than Cam Newton is right now. That's true. I think people are going to fall over Cam Newton forever because of just what he said, what his sizes, what his gifts are. I mean, he's not going to suddenly be without work. And in four years as a starter, he's been on one good team. And I know it's not all about the quarterback, but last year's team is a crummy team.

I know they won a playoff game. The 12 and 14, that was a great team, got wiped out in the playoffs, and then it was the first two years. I think last year's team got good down the stretch. They never came when they were. They've been in the final eight teams two straight years. He's only been in three. Oh, come on.

Are we going to... He didn't play well last year. Wait a second. We're going to pretend that beating that Cardinals team at home was some type of great achievement. What did they win? And he played terrible in that game. He did, and he played pretty well, then he played pretty well the next week against Seattle, where they're tied going into the fourth quarter.

I'm just saying he was fine. They won, what, four straight games to end the season? I don't think his comment is about what he's done either. I think for anything, any foresight for what he's had. I think he's saying this is what he can become. He wants to become things that no quarterback's ever dreamt up. Well, that all sounds ridiculous to me. How about you become a 60% passer?

I'd say right. Start with the basic things that people are killing you on. If nothing else, I am happy to have Cam Newton in our NFL lives. He's a unique player and he's a unique talent. And he gives him a few quotes. He's a guy. And speaking of... He's a guy that's to be reckoned with, Cam Newton.

He's interesting. He's a guy. He makes you want to watch. I find Cam Newton to be closer to the Dalton line that maybe, obviously, Greg, thinks, the Dalton scale. And, you know, that's what's happening with the news, by the way. But we should do... Let's unpack, you know, for a couple minutes, just go back. The Dalton scale, heated conversation.

Mark, while you were away, driving up the coast. I could feel the tension. With the wind in your hair. Thinking about yesterday's and tomorrow's. all at the same time. Just thinking about what life's all about. Was there like any big epiphanies or big moments on that trip? Yeah, I don't think they'd be appropriate to share on this venue.

Okay. Did you like go sit by the ocean and then write the next Coke jingle? I didn't. I know I got a number of these Coca-Cola tweets. I was not attempting to be. Don Draper. Were you attempting to be... I was sleeping in rest stops, so, you know...

I was not attempting to be anyone else. Yeah, I asked you where you... That's when I decided to turn off Twitter when the first... Ooh, what are you trying to do? You're trying to do this? It's like, you know what? Bye-bye, gone. Just turn the phone up.

I don't want to hear from anyone. It's like I just wanted a little bit of quiet. And you did sleep in your car. Well, yeah. I mean, it was a trip that I did not plan for from a funding angle. I'm just happy that you're alive, Mark. I found it to be a very safe way. Rest stop sleeping.

is usually a good way to get stabbed in the heart. I didn't overdo it. Is that true? I've seen some, you know, 48 hours mysteries. Mysteries. He's right. You've got to be careful. You've got to be careful if anyone's coming and knocking on that, you know, on your window.

Well, I woke up safely at around 3.15 in the morning and said, time to keep driving because I don't want to risk this what happens between now and 6.15 in the morning. Very smart. All right. So that's going to, and I hope you achieve some type of enlightening. enlightenment, but we're not going to ask you about it because it's kind of like a you thing. It's a private thing. Yeah, as much as you could over 48 hours. All right. So, yeah, let's talk a little post-mortem on the Dalton scale. And for those of you

that might have missed the pod, we were trying to put where the quarterback backs all fit in. And when you try to figure out where they are on the Dalton scale, which, as a reminder, any quarterback above Andy Dalton is a viable franchise player, any quarterback below Andy Dalton is a problem, not the solution. Dalton, we thought, was the purgatory personified guy, but that's also up for debate after our conversation. Wes, I'll throw it to you. Any takeaways after the show?

I'm sure you got a ton of tweets, people asking you, you know, where your heads at with it? What's your next move with the Dalton scale? Where are you at right now? Well, I think the problem is having this discussion in May because the off-season is the NFL's business season, and you see what happens every year. people fall in love with draft picks and potential.

I came at this exercise thinking like a GM, because I think you have to in May or else why even have the discussion? A lot of other people came at it as a fan or a writer or whatever. If you're talking about a situation in May, you have to consider salary, upside, all that kind of stuff. That's what GMs consider, or else why even have the conversation in May? So that's why I said, of course, I would take Blake Bortles over Andy Dolton. One Twitter follower suggested the Dalton line could, the Dalton question could be reframed.

Would you give this quarterback a six-year $96 million contract? Now, obviously we could change the numbers around, but I knew what he was getting at. Would you pay this quarterback $15 million a year for six years? I wouldn't pay Dalton that much. Right. Well, then he'd be below the Dalton. Right.

He's like the Mendoza line. I took an issue, if you put guys like Blake Bortles or Damis Winst, than above him, to me that feels like folly because the Dalton scale should be about shouldn't be about extrapolation and prediction. It should be about like right now. So Blake Wardle's right now is not ahead of Dalton, but maybe in two years he will

be, but you kind of got to see it. But you're not I guess I would, I comment as you're not acknowledging my point that it's May and this is the NFL's business season. You have to approach it like a GM in May. I think I thought it was all just actually the player on the field,

how he plays, who he is, Well, then why even have the conversation in May? Why not wait until September or October, because we have games? What else are we going to talk about? Well, wait, why take Blake Bortles with the third overall pick if you think his ceiling is Andy Dalton? Well, of course, the Jaguars would put it about it. I know what Dan's saying, and that's how I approached it for the most part, too, was that you have to earn, you have to show that you're better than the average.

That's not how the NFL works. It isn't. Yeah, who would take Andy Dalton over Blake Bortles if they, today? Nobody would. I think the Bengals would. I think they have to believe their own press, but I would never do. Bordos is a tough example because Bordos on paper had worse stats than, you know,

some of the worst quarterbacks in the last 30 years. This is Wes's actual wording of the definition. Any QB above Dalt is a viable franchise player. How can you say that about Blake Bortles right now? That's why I think this is an existential crisis, and the Dolan scale doesn't work anymore. It only works in the season. It doesn't work in May.

I don't think that you, to me, I can't have a discussion. So in week two, that works? Once you've got games going again, yeah, you have evidence. You have, all right, this is the game film. But in May, to me, I can't have that discussion without thinking about salary and value. NFL value. You also, at this point, dislike Dalton enough that he's not close to the middle for you. Well, like we said on the actual Dalton scale podcast, the line has moved since he signed a contract that makes him no longer a competitive.

I have a take on that. the Dalton scale, it can remain the Dalton scale, even if Dalton himself is no longer the Prime Meridian, because there was a time where he was the perfect example of a guy right on the line. It's not him, it's a measurement. Right. That's why he's the Mendoza line. It's like the 2012 Dalton.

Although I do like there's a chance for sponsorship opportunity, branding if we keep changing the name. That's what I'm saying. That's part of the reason I think we should keep it. The T-D, you had a thought. Alex Smith line or whatever. Give us money. Seriously. As usual, you know, me and Wes agree on this, clearly. Definitely. I hear what he's saying, but the ultimate point here, though, is that it's kind of like the top 100. You're taking into account what the players done recently,

but also projecting to what they're going to do next year. I think Andy Dalton, by the way, I think Andy Dalton stops being the Dalton scale when he doesn't make the playoffs. That's when you're like, you know what? He's done. We've got to come up with a new name. How about when he wins a playoff game? but he's the odd guy who keeps making it but doesn't win. We're no closer to a unified front on this. Yeah, he's in a certain purgatory that when he breaks out either way for better or worse, he becomes even more beguiling to deal with.

To me, it's still about that question. Is he a solution at quarterback, or do you need to keep looking for other guys? Now, whether Dalton's the perfect guy for that, that's another debate. But to me, Bortles might be below that line still, because if I had Bordals, I still would want to be. getting other quarterbacks. Doesn't mean to take his job, but just his options until he shows that he can do it. That's fair. All right, good. We'll read, listen, we'll definitely address this again in the season. Maybe it will be different. I know. I wanted to, I want to put some of this

stuff on paper for the off season, maybe. Alton scale written bit. Get ready, Wes. We can't write it. We have no clarity. Long form. NFL dot com slash Dalton scale. Oral history of the Dalton's By the way, thanks for tuning in to that one. We're going to hit 100K on that. Ow! So, yeah, that's good. And also, this came down the old newswire, internal email system. That's how we communicate in modern society.

The Around the NFL podcast has been nominated in the sports category of the Academy of Podcasters Awards. Oh, my goodness. presented by Stitcher Which is something that's real So yeah, thank you to everyone That has listened to us And downloaded us and commented And check this out on Stitcher

Which must be some type of method of distribution That has led to a nomination for a major award It is the method of distribution I mean if we win this We can take that best of 2013 iTunes label off our Logo Which is a flat two years go at this point. This award show was supposed to happen

in 2014 and then they postponed it because they were making a big deal out of this. So this is a three-day event and I was going to feature people from other popular podcasts. TD already pitching himself to go to Texas. No, he already is saying that he's going. Come on. Yeah, I'm going, yeah. It has Sarah Konek from Cyril. She's going to be out there.

Oh, really? Hang it with Sarah. Well, wait, we'd all go, right? How would TD be the one that goes? You put in the least amount of work with this whole group. Wow. That's just the fact. Round two.

I'm your biggest supporter, TD, but you've only been on the ship here for nine months. It is a conference in addition to your award show. Is this a major award? It is. Like a leg lamp? It's being positioned. I'm desperately trying to get TD to put in the drop that I requested for this segment. And he just won't.

I thought that was a real question. Yeah. Let's do it again. Go ahead. All right. Yeah. Is this a major award? It's a major award.

Oh, good. I like the idea of conference mixed with an award presentation. That's correct. After parties all kinds of nice. Why would we, this sounds like a perfect thing, a group building exercise. T.D. just wants to go, you know, meet women. That's my theory. Yeah.

All right. So, yeah, thank you to everyone that's supported the podcast and hopefully we'll win. And you put that right next to our 2013 Stitcher Award, wherever it is. I think I have an idea where that is. We won that, so continue to rack up, you know, type of things that tell us that we're good, Mark, because those physical manifestations let us know that we're worth something. That's how I look at awards, don't you? I need your award.

Yeah, I look at the exact same way, Dan. Okay, cool. All right, Dan Hans is here with the rest of the around the NFL team, and we're going to do a little bit of talk right now about some offseason narratives. We've been tracking all these different storylines coming out of teams as OTAs continue. you, but which are some of the stories that we're not trusting right now? They're kind of being forced down our throat, and we're saying, we're rejecting. Let's be honest, we're doing some of the forcing. Okay, okay, fair, but we're saying, you know, get out of my throat, reject it.

And, Mark, we're going to start with you. Give me your off-season narrative you don't trust. Well, I mean, it starts with Johnny Mansell, and I think it was obvious that once he returned from his rehab stint, that we were going to get some sort of reaction from the Browns, and it was going to either be, very neutral, and it was for some period of time. And then their offensive coordinator, John D. Filippo, comes out and said that he's just been awesome. He's been great, are the words he used, that he shows up before the sun rises. He's there until the sun goes down. And it's like he's doing everything.

Is that because he's sleeping there? Well, I don't know about that. Is that your boy, D. Filippo? I like D. Filippo. And listen, I'm not saying I don't want this to be the case. I hope Mansell can turn it around. It's good to see that he is more committed. but I'm not going to trust anything about a Browns quarterback and specifically Mansell until September and we see it on the field. It makes sense why a Browns fan would feel that way

because I think because maybe a couple of years and now we have a little more time to properly let it all sink in how disastrous his first year was. I mean from on the field play to the party stuff and then the trip to the rehabilitation center, it was as bad, even by Brown's standards, It was an absolute nightmare. So anyone that thinks he shows up at OTAs and looks good for a couple days

and some of the teammates are saying decent things, it's too soon to think that this guy has fixed his career in life. And the thing, watching the OTAs today, he still looks incredibly small to me. That is my number one concern more than everything else. Well, they can't fix that. That sticks. And for everything that happened off the field in terms of his work ethic or how he approached football, I think the bigger concerns are,

is this guy ever going to be good enough and football smart enough to be a starting quarterback? Well, I think Mark's point, when I watched Brown's games last year, that was my number one concern. He was too small. And he wasn't, the moves that he could make to get past defenders in college don't work in the NFL. Well, you hit upon with the offseason tropes. Whenever you start hearing that, oh, well, he's taking some great notes. You know what? He's really taking good, he's a good note take.

I mean, what are they really talking about when they're saying he's doing a great job? I mean, they're only in there for three or four hours at a time. They're limited to what they can do. He's showing up for work and he's doing his job. And I think Mike Petten is trying to quiet down this story a little bit. He is, even today. On Tuesday, he said, you know, let's not get carried away. You know, he's working hard.

It's the offseason. What could he really be doing that so impressive? And he's with, he's entrenched with the second team. So this very clearly looks like it's Josh McCown's team. Now, I think barring some McCown, you know, 2013 flip, flourish. Mansell's going to have a chance to play, but it all depends on whether he proves it to the Browns. Now, he doesn't get any, I don't think they're going to give him any free pass back on the field, and he's got to show something in practice and in the, you know, the room for the meetings

and all that. Yeah, I think McCown is capable of playing himself out of the job, too, on an offense that lacks weapons. So it's very possible we see Manzell. You have to go back a decade plus for a year where one quarterback started 16 games for them. So let's go week seven. That's my opinion. I go week five. Okay. Well, take six. Week 14. Wow.

Well, you love Josh McCown. Wait, three months ago, you were saying Mansell won't play at a single game this year. Things change. The tropes start to get into the mind. Mark, Johnny Manzell in football, 2017. Yes. Okay. Moving on.

Football's pretty, you know, big, broad topic. I kind of meant NFL. Quarterbacks have many lives. I just, I don't think he'd be gone that quickly, but it would be gone. going close to them. Yeah. All right. Chris Wessling, what are you not necessarily trusting that's coming in through the NFL media machine? Well, Greg, and a few other people, I know, believe that the Adrian Peterson saga this offseason is solely driven by money. Yes. Okay. Well, I don't, I think that it is, obviously, there's more to it than that. I think

that he really had his feelings hurt last year. I mean, more than his feelings hurt. He doesn't trust certain members of the Vikings. His wife doesn't want to be in Minnesota anymore. He wants to play for a contender, or at least that's what his agent told Bleacher report this weekend. He wants to play for a contender who will stand by him and defend him like the Vikings did not do last year.

So what is it, what's the off-season? You're not buying my off-season hype. I'm not buying your narrative. Wes, I'm going to introduce you to your boss, Greg Rosenthal. I'm not buying your narrative that it's only about getting more guaranteed money. In fact, a confidant close to Peterson told Yahoo that it's never been about the money.

Yeah, you know what Yahoo is? That's the place that just spoon-feeds agent information to help their clients. That's how I read that. Greg crosses Yahoo off a potential employer in the future. We've been following this Peterson thing every week. For a while, you know, there was no way they wanted to play with the Vikings. And once they kind of realized that after the draft,

they started to make it clear, Ian Rapport reported, okay, now they're changing gears and they want to get more money. Now they're not getting the money that they want exactly, so they're going on another offensive of leverage. Well, do you think there's a chance that Ben Dogra and Jerry Jones behind the scenes have shared, you know, maybe a couple dinners, a couple phone conversations that say there is still a potential chance. Jerry Jones said he was still willing to maybe trade next year's number one pick for a veteran player this year that could help the team keep that Super Bowl window open. Well, if you were a conspiracy theorist, you could look at Greg Hardy's suspension and think Jerry Jones says, ooh, that's $5 million more in Capsby's than I thought we were going to have. That sounds exactly like Jerry Jones.

Let me ask you this. Who knows Adrian Peterson's true feelings better? That me? His agent and someone close to him or a Viking source? I don't care about his true feelings. I'm not arguing that he wasn't offended by the Vikings and that he wasn't. annoyed by them, but this stuff about playing for a contender, all of this goes away if they give them the money wants. So then that's the important factor.

So when his agent and when people coast to him come out this week and say he's still very miffed with the Vikings, he doesn't want anything to do with him. He said in meetings with them all offseason, he made it clear he wanted to be traded, and they're saying all that again this week. You're saying none of that is true. What happened after the draft where the agent was like, this was all, you know, what the Vikings showed us. It was a good, it was like a test that they passed. Yeah, wasn't that what happened? Exactly.

The agent said, like, we like the fact that they've been so steadfast that they like, they believe in him so much that they haven't even entertained offers. I don't, I don't doubt that, that he was pissed at the Vikings. Of course he was mad at them, but I think money would solve that. Well, all about money plus no one making a play for him, no other option than to sit out another year out of stubbornness. I mean, it's kind of like you break up with someone and, you know, No matter what she does, if you really truly are on the outs, you're never going back.

It doesn't matter what she does. You're never going to like that girl again. Here's another reason why I don't believe it. Adrian Peterson welcomed Mike Zimmer and Spielman into his house, and Zimmer said he has an idea of when Peterson is going to come back. I think Adrian Peterson will be happy to play for Mike Zimmer. I think he'll be happy to play with Teddy Bridgewater. It's not the coaches and the teammates.

He's mad about the organization. Big deal. And by the way, Wes, if what you're thinking is right, that he does want out for more reasons, on money and he wants out of town. If he thinks we're heading close to June 1st, if he thinks he's going to end up with a raise playing for the Patriots or something, it's not happening. I think it's not the way the end of it works.

People are underestimating his wife's role in this. Maybe, and that's fair. It's the stuff about the contender, I guess, that sort of thing. It's like, first of all, the Vikings might end up with a better record than the Cowboys anyways. Yeah. Say who's a contender?

I'll take Minnesota. Wow. The one thing we're going to find out is this is going to be really exciting to see what happens next. That's my thought. That was an outstanding segue. Thank you. Dan.

Here's the off-season narrative that I don't trust. Personally, there's a lot of chatter out there about after they change the two-point conversion. Of course, the kick is now like 32 or 33 yards for the point after, after being, for years, it was, what, a 17-yard attempt? And, you know, Gary Kubiak came out and said last week that it's going to change the way we play the game a great deal.

I don't buy it. I'm not buying it. I don't trust that all these teams are all of a sudden start going on for two like crazy. I think they're going to send their kickers out on the field, trust them to hit 32-yard field goals. Most of them will do it. And the guys that don't miss it will probably lose their jobs. I think the only big thing that come out of this year, a couple outliers, maybe a Chip

Kelly or someone like that could get a little frisky. But you're just going to see some kickers lose their jobs over extra points, which is why all the kickers are all, you know, honking to use a Gregism in the first place because they just realized their job got a little harder. A little harder is in, we're going to guess they're going to make like 96% of their extra points now? 93 to 94% is what the committee came to. It's roughly the same percentage of NFL coaches who are risk-averse.

So don't expect them to start going for two-point conversions. They're still going to go with the safe play. I agree with that. Now, what they should have done. I don't think it's going to be a game. It was a classic half measure because they should have just put the two-point. point conversion at the one and then let all the mathematicians basically explain that that's the better play odds-wise and then it gets real interesting but they didn't they didn't do that and

I think it's going to result in just a lot more longer extra points well it reminds me of 1994 when they initiated the two-point conversion and there was the same off-season chatter of whoa this is a total game changer this is going to completely alter what offenses do and how they attack and how they come from behind and it did nothing the two-point conversion The version was used rarely, so rarely that it, you know who put the first one in? Belichick, of all people. I mean, listen, they did not. He's an innovator.

But it was barely used. And I think that's why they had to even make this change, because the initial change to the two-point conversion never really took effect. Well, it's affected pretty big games. I mean. But it's not used like, oh, this is. The Seahawks going to the Super Bowl last. Remember Dom Capers?

I mean, it was his first game with the Texans. He chose to go for two to avoid. overtime and he nailed it. I think it was like the Texans' first game ever. This is against the Cowboys, right? I don't know. Yeah, they beat the Cowboys in their first regular season game. I've been wanting to get rid of this extra point in a long time, and you're right.

I think the results will be disappointing. I do hope that they're so boring that they consider moving it back again to the 43 or moving the... Just get rid of it then. If you're going to make it like a really hard kick, just get rid of it. But it was a really hard kick when they first... Not really hard, but it was much harder when they first had it. Maybe just get rid of it.

And they first started extra points? Yeah. They weren't nailing them. They were towbangers. They weren't kicking soccer style. Right. They were... Hey, old buddy, you're a towbanger.

You got Luke Groz out there kicking toe bangers. It's one thing you don't want to be called in life. Or anyone in your family. Your sister's a tow banger. Well, you ever... Did you guys ever play soccer? Yes. So, like, you know, when you're in grade school and you're playing soccer,

if you kick it toe style, they call you a toebanger. You know, it's seen as uncoo-banger. in the soccer world because you can't control the ball. It's just the fireball you're sending out there. Soccer talk. The only goal I scored on my own team. Yeah. I was defense and the only goal.

The only goal kicked it off the back of my foot and no one was watching it just went off the back of my foot into the goal and no one knew where the ball was. And I was like, I'm eight years old. What am I doing here? Loving the soccer talk. Got to get off the sport. All right. Finally, Greg Rosenthal, known as the boss, you know, freshly back from New England.

Were you at the free Brady? party in New England, the rally. Did not bring my daughter to that. I was like, if there was a news show and they were like scrolled across the crowd and it was like Greg in full like face paint holding his daughter on his shoulders, it would have been my favorite thing since we found out about Delaware. Anyway, Greg, the offseason narrative that you do not trust. My narrative I don't trust is the thought that Peyton Manning's done

and that the Denver Broncos Super Bowl window is closed. I look at that roster, and I see one of the top three or four rosters in the NFL, and I think there's a perfectly reasonable chance that Peyton Manning's going to go out there this year and be a top eight quarterback or top 10 quarterback. Maybe he's not Peyton Manning MVP year, and I don't think he needs to be for that team to make the Super Bowl. Who's driving this narrative? This is largely a Twitter narrative I've found,

rather than... I don't know. I brought it up with Dan. Is this even... I don't think so. Damashik has said it on this show, but I haven't heard it anywhere else. Yeah, but he doesn't count

with anything, Peyton Manning. I feel like he has to recuse itself at this point. There's a general feeling or a general... I don't think when people are coming out with picks in August, and no one's taking the Broncos anymore. And to me, there's no difference this year, really, when I look at the Broncos compared to the last couple years, right? I see it there and them as one of the favorites.

I think there's a big difference. Peyton Manning's a mystery now. Nobody knows what he is. Right. But, you know, I do find it interesting that I think it was pro football focus, or maybe it was Roto World put out their top 100 players and Manning wasn't on it. I thought that was symbolic of the way that people now are not giving Manning the benefit of the doubt based on the fact that he got injured at the end of last season.

And for some reason, it's been decided by some people that he's done and he's in a period of decline. But we don't even attach it. Nobody says anything about, as an example, Tom Brady, who's, I think, 13 months younger, than Manning. No one ever says, oh, he might be getting old. Manning got hurt, hurt his quad, and all of a sudden, the belief is that he's not going to be able to bounce back. It's all the people just, I mean, Brady just heroically won the Super Bowl, and now he's an anti-hero. You throw all that together. But like, with Manning, it's the last impression we had of him in that Colts game where he looked subpar.

It was hard to watch. It's hard to watch someone that's been as good as he has been for so long play at that level. But then you find out that the injury impacted it all, and that should change the way we feel. but I don't think there's a narrative saying that anyone picking the AFC West has the Broncos as a shoe-in AFC West winner and a top, a final four contender in the AFC. That's the way I'd see them. I think the Peyton Manning injury thing,

it's hard to separate how much of that was the quad and how much is his arm and how much is it the last... They're connected, though. I'm sure they are. But the last few years he's lost arm strength come December and January. Or how likely he is to have some other problem. injury next year that pops up right very possible but

everyone should also remember that through about what week nine or ten last year he was probably the best quarterback in the league besides maybe iron Rogers he was a stud he was on pace to throw 50 more touchdown right and then he got hurt and people have tried to dig dirt on brady at various points I mean there was that sort of off season conversation last year has he

declined or not so you said okay Peyton man's a mystery he is but tom Brady is a mystery too the cliff is coming for tom Brady he's going to fall off at some point You're talking about the reigning Super Bowl MVP? I'm just saying he could have a bad season, and it shouldn't shock anyone considering he had pretty bad stretches. He's not a mystery yet.

There's no evidence. We have evidence with Manning his last eight games of last season. Well, you press pause. What's you going to do when he asked to use a regulation football? Will you tell me that? This guy's been cheating. Well, probably the same thing he did in the Super Bowl when he had to use a regulation football? Or in the second half against the book?

Hey, before you, you know, hit me up on Twitter. That's a joke, you punks. Greg was definitely at the free Tom Brady Parade It was many of his operatives if it wasn't him He paid people to go Fill that venue All right, that's it, folks

For today's edition of the Round the NFL podcast Thank you as always for listening We will be back with our second show of the week on Thursday So make sure you listen to that And you know Wait, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up I even forgot. The podcast MVP, the podcast MVP, very quick.

We're still doing that? We do it. People love it. It's going to Dan Azis for creating the free Tom Brady Greg Rosenthal character. That was true. Wow. Wow, right under the gun there. I'm very proud of myself.

I've never, Dan is beaming right now. That has social media. I know what he looked like on his first date with his future. I mean, he looks like he's in love right now. That has real meme potential, man. So if you're listening, if you want to create a Greg Rosenthal character, that's the one. I thought you might give him. it to Wes because, you know, just as a Barry the Hatchet maneuver, or maybe to Greg,

because he's our boss, I knew you weren't going to give it to Michael. Yeah, I don't, you know, TD, I think that we've done a good job today, and I like that your conflict with someone else overshadowed what is a consistent one with me. It's back on the map. I'm very annoyed. Oh, man. Hey, hate, hate, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. What?

We're supposed to ask about a favorite, say, segments. Oh, I was going to do that on the next show. All right. But since you brought it up. Showrunner, Chris Wesleyan. Yeah, at Producer TD. I want you guys, all the listeners, for this award that we've been nominated for, a major award, in fact, we have to submit a five-minute section of one of our shows.

So if there's a part of one of our shows in the recent weeks or months that you particularly enjoy, and for some reason it's in your mind, as I'm saying this, hit up. up at producer td and let him know and put him to work and he'll clip that off and send it to the academy and remember that's a major award exactly uh all right now we can go can we go that's chris is a sure winner yeah west can we go yeah we're out of here all right good uh this is dan hansis signing off for the sizzler mark sessler the mailman the boss and the great td behind the glass and i see you mcginnis Also you, Mr. Moustache.