NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - One Do-Over for Every Losing Team and Jets fire GM with Colleen Wolfe and Jourdan Rodrigue

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Colleen Wolfe and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic to look back on the teams around the NFL with a record below .500 and tell you the one do-over they would make to turn things around. Before they turn back the clocks, the crew reacts to the Jets firing GM Joe Douglas (01:10), followed by a look at every team with a below .500 record (09:30). Finally, a preview of the Browns and Steelers facing off on Thursday Night Football (55:42). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to NFL Daily, where our Tuesday show is unofficially sponsored by the New York Jets. Sure is. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesleying podcast studio, surrounded by my friends, Jordan Rodriguez. of The Athletic and welcoming Colleen Wolfe back from overseas. I'm back. Great to see you guys. Great to be back.

Representing the great university of Vermont where, as we were talking before the show, a lot of the stoners from my high school would go to UVM. Good school. That's a cool fun fact. Fun school. I don't even have a Drexel sweatshirt. You should. Like, that's pretty bad.

I guess let's just get into it. I set it off the top. Like the Jets have fired Joe Douglas. My God. They've really kind of hijacked this program. So what's happened on Tuesday? Robert Sally got fired on a Tuesday. Yes.

Devonthe Adams got traded on a Tuesday. Mike Williams got traded. That was part of the trade deadline thing. And now, yes, they've gotten rid of Joe Douglas after six years. He did have a long run. He had a six-year contract. I went back and looked when he first signed with that. I was like, wow, did he get a second contract?

No, he had a lot of leverage because he was the bell. of the GM to be ball. And there was competition. And he got six years out of them. And the Jets went 30 and 64 in those six seasons. No surprise that this happened. Quite random. It happened this week.

Like, why now versus another week? It is their bi-week. So that would be kind of the obvious, just like practical answer. But yeah, it's been a tough time to be a Jets fan. It makes me think that they're, initially starting to look at assistant general managers around the league right now as they're sort of combing different candidates and vetting different candidates because undoubtedly it would

get back to Joe Douglas if they were starting to that scouting process for who could potentially take over. I mean, he was on an expiring contract anyway. So I saw a report from Diana Rusini at the Athletic saying they didn't want him to still have this title as they were starting the entire process and wanted to get a jump on the process. But like I mentioned to you guys a couple weeks ago, this makes things very, very difficult for their scouting department, pre-draft in particular, prior to free agency in particular, because this is quite a shake-up for a space that is entering some of its crucial months and weeks in the next couple months. Yeah, it's not surprising at all, but the fact that it's happening on a Tuesday is just nice

for the show, I think. Everything keeps happening on Tuesdays. But yeah, he can't be a lame duck GM in the building while they're conducting interviews. That just would be such a weird, awkward situation. I kind of knew that this was going to come to an end because of his expiring contract because the Jets are in the situation that they're in right now.

But I can't imagine being in that building right now. The vibes, they're not immaculate. No, they're not good. Phil Savage is the interim GM. You may remember him from running the Browns way back in the day of the aughts. And then he ran the senior bowl for a while. Like, he was the guy at the Senior Bowl that would do 15 minutes with Daniel Jeremiah and our friend Andrew Siciliano and just be like, hey, how have the Senior Bowl going?

Well, we got great players this year. Thanks, Phil Savage. So he's been in the building for a minute. I think he was probably hired by Joe Douglas. So it's probably an interim type of situation. At least they're not making the same mistake they made with Joe Douglas, which was hiring a GM in June, which was totally bizarre back then. They have messed up their hiring cycle so many times. and I just keep hammering. It's the clearest, most obvious thing you can do as ownership, which is hire the GM and the coach at the same time, like, period.

That they're one and the same. And, yeah, he was hired after a draft process. Was that John Idzik back in the day? So whoever it was got to like, you know, make all the signings for the season and draft all the players. And then Joe Douglas comes in and they were absolutely awful that first year. I think they won two games, and everyone's like, well, you can't put that on Joe Douglas's record.

He didn't even dress. And that's absolutely fair. But it's also fair to point out. Joe Douglas came in there day one. He's a former offensive lineman. He's a tough looking dude. He's a nice guy. He's a nice guy with a lot of friends in the media, must be said, which I think is insulated

him a little bit. I remember him on the field when the Eagles won the Super Bowl because he was with them at that time. And then he went off to the Jets. That you have to be graded on what your intent is, what you say you're intent. and his, I remember his opening press conference and throughout his time with the Jets, he said, we're going to be a team that builds through the lines.

I'm a former offensive lineman. We're basically like the Eagles. We are going to build up front. We are going to put our resources into being great up front. And he was a man of his word in that he put a ton of resources into that offensive line year after year after year.

A lot of swings. And it was never good. Like you can go back to their original sin was probably not even Zach Wilson. It was Mackay Beckton over Tristan Worf's, who has turned out to be an all-pro type of player and was in that draft and available at that time. And it just didn't happen.

I think that's a very difficult job because no GM has succeeded there in the last 20 years. But go ahead. No, the 2022 draft class was fantastic. He has that at least to hang his hat on. I mean, there were so many good players in that. And then you had offensive and defensive rookies of the year. But the GM also has

an enormous amount of, say, an enormous amount of voice when it comes to head coaching, higher, quarterback, and those two things, clearly because of the shakeups we've seen, are just not areas where the Jets have been able to all be on a congruent page for a number of reasons over the years, but certainly... Yeah, how's firing Robert Sala worked out for you? Not that I think they would be in much better shape, but I actually bet they would have one more win. That was, how long ago was that? Was that six weeks ago?

17 years, actually. It feels like that. 17 decades ago. You know what their record was at the time? Two and three. And they had lost three one score games to good teams at the time, which if you look back was by far their best five games, you know, their stretch of the season.

But that's it for Joe Douglas. It'll be an interesting hire. Some speculation that Woody Johnson will have a job in the Trump administration like he did in the previous one. And that maybe this is kind of getting Giving him a project, a fresh start? No, I mean, like allowing the owner of the team to make those crucial next hires

before that happens, before the inauguration, which, you know, will be in January. So it's probably going to be Woody Johnson's hires to make. We'll find out the GM, the coach, and yes, the quarterback. Aaron Rogers said publicly kind of that he was planning to return, but Ian Rappaport said on Sunday that it's probably something that he'll be thinking about and debating more into the off-season,

I kind of doubt they'll have a GM and or coach that's going to want Aaron Rogers back, which I did not expect coming into this season, but I don't think so, right? Well, that person, it's not just because you fired the GM, that person is not just going to be paired with now a new head coach and finding the right match, the right pairing together, not just doing the thing where the coaching agents come out of the woodwork

and say, okay, I have this guy and this guy. They're both my clients. Let's put them together. But actually going through a thorough process and making sure, potentially using a search firm, I think that would be good as well. To pair the right culture builders together, we've seen really successful teams. The Detroit Lions, a rebuild that will be needed of this magnitude in New York,

especially if you move on from the quarterback, did the thing where they just really looked to pair like the right guys together. And then you have to really think about your entire language of your building from all the assistant coaches, the current veteran personnel on the roster, including Aaron Rogers, the coordinators. You also have to think about your entire scouting department, your entire pro personnel department. Like this is such an enormous job that goes so far beyond the surface of, yes, they need a new head coach now and a new GM. It's a long to-do list. It is. And I'm glad you brought that up.

We're going to be doing some do-overs today. nice segue guys and the jets are one of those but let's just let's still keep them in the segment actually let's we'll start with the jets then because i just feel like we've talked so much about the jets not just we have yeah on tuesdays but just in general and i do feel like this bye week and this is the last big firing that can happen unless they benched erin rogers for tyrod which i really can't imagine erin rogers actually like the the lukewarmest take ever is like he really hasn't been that bad. He's just not good. And he's, and everything else

that comes. Is he the Dalton line? Right. He's somewhere, he's somewhere in the middle and he's not in, like, he's playing almost to avoid injury, it feels like. And everything that comes along with Aaron Rogers has helped, I think, to sync this team too in the fact of who the play caller is and

everything like that. So let's introduce the segment. Do-overs for teams under 500. If we could go back in time and give this team a chance to do one thing over, Jordan. You came up with this. A lot of pressure on you, this segment.

You're excited. It could be a play call. It could be a coaching decision. It could be a personnel decision. It could be anything. I have a question. Before you start, though, what made you think of this?

What sparked this? Was there a certain team or a certain move or a certain play? Just, you know, my life mostly. Okay. Like, you know, self-scouting constantly. you know, picking up the wrong can of beans at the grocery store and then, you know, riding back in the car to get the right can of beans.

You know, these types of little things. We've all been there. Okay. So what we're going to do is we're going to put two minutes on the clock. We will get to the TNF preview, by the way, at the end of the show, Steelers Brown. Two minutes on the clock to make sure we're concise. And that's it.

You introduce what the one do-over is, maybe suggest, you know, a path forward to give these teams and these fans hope because these are some of the teams we'll be talking about a little less as the season goes along and then open it up to the floor a couple minutes we're also allowing because we all like to honk so much yep one 30 second uh honk time out that you can call a time out and you can just honk like as much as you want in that 30 seconds but only use it once okay and yes my producers are wondering like I thought we had an order for this thing yes we do have an order, but sometimes let's flip it on its head when we start. Because it just starts,

it makes sense to me. They love it. They love when this happens so much. It makes sense to me to just start with the Jets and finish the Jets off. Yeah, totally. It's been two more minutes on the Jets. And then move on. So we are going to start with the Jets and then we'll go into Colleen and the Colts. But yes, the clock has already started. It's up there on the screen. Thank God we have a clock. Oh no. What is happening? Greg's. Okay. The decision... Oh, God. The decision was having a different offensive coordinator for Aaron Rogers this season.

That's exactly what I have written down to. Like that... I know he never played last season, so you didn't know if it was going to go poorly or not with Aaron Rogers. But I think standing up to him in a certain way, not having Nathaniel Hackett, be your guy, and having a strong voice in the room, like Matt Lafleur when he came into Green Bay.

and really started doing things his way but met Aaron Rogers in the middle before this season even started to set a tone to have someone running and they explored this idea. They literally interviewed Arthur Smith and I don't think Arthur Smith wanted that job in the end. He was going to come in over Hackett.

But it was making a decision and that means we're at one minute to get rid of Hackett before the start of the year and have someone else coaching this team. When I interviewed Matt Lafleur for the Playcaller series he said that exact thing where he came in to the building with something totally

incongruent to what Aaron Rogers was used to and the things that they did. So they sat in a room, Nathan O'Hackett was there, by the way. They sat in a room and over Zoom and then had some meetings in the following weeks and months where they went over piece by piece by piece of the playbook. I like this, you like that. I like this, you like that. How can we compromise? How can we meet in the middle? That was needed for, I think. Players need to be coached, not just here. Run the show.

Run our organization. Yeah. I mean, The fact that they didn't have a new offensive coordinator is the main thing, I think, that sticks out to me because I don't have to go through all of the numbers at all. By the way, if they count them as a post-June 1st cut in the off season, they actually save money. A lot of dead money on the cap, but they saved money. All right, now we're going to get to the order we had expected coming into it.

Let's go Colts and Colleen, and hopefully you don't stammer for the first 10 seconds in such a way that your co-host go, oh, my God. Oh, my God. What is happening right now? It's not going to make me feel more comfortable. And that's my worst nightmare, so I am so sorry, my sweet Greg. All right, the Colts, the biggest mistake, the do-over that they absolutely need.

Anthony Richardson telling the truth. I mean, you have to take that tired tap out to the grave. He should have lied about that from the very jump. That is the absolute do-over. Everyone wants that do-over, I think, for him. but especially he needing that. I mean, they probably also shouldn't have benched Anthony Richardson because the reps are what he needs right now.

And they knew this when they drafted him, like that they were going to have some tough times and growing pains. And that's precisely one of them. But Flacco going 0 and 2 in those two games that were pretty winnable. That's not a great look. And who knows if Richardson would have even performed well in those games, but Flacco absolutely did not. So the whole Anthony Richardson tapping out debacle,

let's bring that back. I love that. That it's so, like, zeroed out to one answer, one single play. I don't think it was crazy for them to bench him. Maybe, like, mentally, it seemed like it was good for him to get a little vacation. But as the weeks I've got on, I do think more and more that his answer was maybe the reason why they did. Yeah, the telling of the truth was what got him in the end. So kids, just remember that.

Just lie. not always but sometimes it's better to just not answer the question don't lie what do you say it was like a rib or you had you know you you got you got dizzy I don't know anything your heart started racing you say you're tired I would imagine that that's tough in the locker room I know right after that I did a show with Steve Mariucci and he was livid he was beyond beside himself because he can't imagine a player of his tapping out because they're tired I can't imagine a team teammate doing that. Well, they're five and six. Your

Indianapolis Colts are still still alive. They do have the lines this week, but after that, some winnable games. You never know. They're in the mix. Yeah. I'm giving myself plenty of runway. I love it. I love that one, Colleen. All right, you got the Dolphins, Jordan. I've got the Miami Dolphins. My do-over suggestion

is in the offseason at some point, build an emergency offense with a decent backup quarterback outside of the injury history. I think it's fine that the dolphins built their A-plus scheme to be predicated on the specificity of Tua as a timing thrower and the absolute speed of their offense. But while most teams are built to climb toward like best case scenarios, when you do

have an injury history, such as Tua Tug of Iloa's, that is really concerning and repeated over the last couple of years, you have to start thinking about the worst case scenario and how to mitigate that worst case scenario. Jimmy G, you could have beat the Rams on Jimmy G. Ryan Tanna Hill was available. Joe Flacco, although we clearly see that wasn't like great this year for him. But, uh, you know, Justin Fields was being shopped even at that time. Um, so I, I think that's my do over for Miami. Love that. They're a frisky team right now. They're feisty. They don't feel like they're descending. They actually feel like they're ascending. Um, but you could avoid some of those losses if you had a decent backup and an emergency backup plan simplified offense as a plan B. Right. Like they had him in the building, Skyler Thompson for the last two years, because it kind of reminds me of a lesser version of the Daniel Jones issues. Like, you messed up by mis-evaluating your own roster. By the way, you speak of ascending teams. We have Anthony Weaver, the defensive coordinator of the Dolphins coming up later this week. George's going to be part of that interview. So check that

out on the Thursday night recap. We're going to drop that. That's exciting. Yeah. They went one and three in games without Tua. They would be in a much better playoff position right now if they had someone legitimate in there, a backup other than Skyler Thompson or Tyler Huntley. They're four and six right now, and I don't really know what they are. I have a hard time even evaluating them now that two is back and where they can go. According to the athletics model, they still have a 28% chance of simply making the playoffs. Wow, that's pretty high. That's a lot higher than the Rams.

I want to know what the Bengals is. Good segue. It's almost happening. Okay. It's almost like she's the real television professional here, Bengals. But like for real, I do want to know. Yeah. I'm going to look that up for you right now. I'm going back in time. I'm going back to letting Jesse Bates walk. Can we go back? Yes. That's a great one. Because it speaks to a larger problem that I also think affected this year. Again, self-scouting. When you have great players, they're making faces. What's the percentage chance for the Bengals?

22%? 22% That's higher than I would expect. Wow. Okay. You have to know what makes you great.

They obviously didn't. They believed it's this Lou Anarumo scheme, blah, blah, blah, blah. Safety has been at the very core of their issues the last couple years and Jesse Bates did not cost that best. Now, spinning that into this year,

I think the Jamar Chase situation coming into this season was poisonous for this team. Both Jamar Chase and the Bengals really thought that deal was going to get done. They were really disappointed about it from what Paul Dana of the athletic reported at that time. Like the team was this point and Jamar Chase was this point.

It was hanging over the whole team. They lost that week one without a lot of Jamar Chase involvement against the Patriots. Like that just started this whole thing. So sometimes it's the vibes and sometimes it's doing things the right way. Pay your players early. I agree 100% with this decision, this do-over that should have happened in the first place. And I saw someone post about this, an LSU grad that I follow. And she's usually a stage of way.

She's really, really up to speed on current. happenings with LSU players. And think about it this way. He's not in the post game after a very disappointing loss, making sort of loaded comments about the play callers and about the vibe of the team overall. If he had already been paid and could understand and know and really see tangibly that he is the future of this franchise

in a cornerstone. One thing I want to do, and it's tough in these two minutes, is also suggest a path forward. And I do taking that answer into account. You have 18 seconds, Greg. I think that one solution would be a path without Zach Taylor. Don't make the playoffs this year. You're only going to get Joe Burrow once.

He's the best quarterback already in franchise history. Better than Boomer, better than Ken Anderson. Is Zach Taylor the guy to maximize him or is Ben Johnson? That's a job Ben Johnson would leave for. I love that. Man, I kind of want to call time out because I didn't get in on this Bengals. All right, time out. Okay.

Because I just want to talk a little bit more about the fact that Jemar Chase is not signed long term because they essentially showed their hand in 9. not signing T. Higgins either. So T is most likely gone after this offseason, and they're only going to get a comp pick in return when you have all of these other wide receivers that went and they would get a one or sometimes like a nice little package there. Now, I'm not saying that T. Higgins is on the same level

as like a Devonte Adams or Tyree Kno or A.J. Brown. I mean, just thinking about different trades that have gone on. But surely they could have gotten some. something more than just a comp pick here. And when you look at their wins that they have, I mean, some people are still kind of giving them the benefit of the doubt this season, but their four wins are

against the Panthers, the Giants, the Browns, and the Raiders. So there are combined 9 and 31 this season. And they can't close. Close games that they can't close. I know. It's all against the good teams. Man, I've been hammered. They only have Trey Hendrickson. There is just some loser, like, Joe Burrow

and Jamar Chase. And And these teams, and they're a Super Bowl team, they are obviously outstanding players and they will be in the future. But there's something about the 2024 Bengals that just have... Bad ju-ju. Bad vibes. And I think maybe it started with that Jamar Chase. Bring it back around.

Nice. Good use of your honking timeout. All right, let's go to the Browns, their division rivals. We'll be talking about them a little on the TNF preview. But Colleen, go forth. This is tough because I didn't know that we could go. go back beyond this offseason. I don't know if I did it either, but I just...

So I... I knew. Just kidding. Obviously, I didn't tell you guys. Sean Watson is the biggest mistake and that should be the do-over, but they couldn't just... Good to note. Thinking about this season, it's not like they could have benched him this season because of the contract.

So potentially moving on from Alex Van Pelt and Joe Flacco is a duo. Now Flacco nose diving with the Colts kind of deep sixes that argument a bit. If he didn't, that would be lovely right now. But I think Kevin Stefansky probably should have handed over the play calling duties a little bit earlier to Ken Dorsey. Dorsey started calling the plays when James Winston started. It's been a mixed bag since. I'm not sure that that would have made a whole difference with Ken Dorsey calling plays for Deshawn Watson. Had Deshawn Watson not been hurt.

But maybe that is something that they should have done. It's funny how many of these come back to self-scouting because I would. disagree with you. I thought about what would be mine for the Browns. There is no, there's no great answer. I had such a hard time

with this one. But benching Deshawn Watson before the season even started, like cutting him, I think that was their only chance. I think their decision to stand by Deshawns. And you can say they didn't have a choice.

Maybe they didn't, maybe they didn't. But that was their only chance because I think sticking with him is going to cost everyone. Not just this season, but maybe everyone their job. I think the coaching staff

would probably agree with you. Right. Yeah, think about. It would have been bold. but it also would have been, it would have made sense. I was thinking about this the other day. If they move on potentially from the coaching staff and then maybe potentially from the front office,

if they clean house, imagine if you just eat the significant and exorbitant amount of dead money as an ownership group that you basically placed in escrow in order to sign Deshawn Watson to that guaranteed money in the first place, if you just ate that and then avoided now paying out a coaching extension, now paying out a general manager extension, so much worse. I wish I want to give a path forward for the Browns. Maybe in the TNF preview.

Let's talk about the Patriots, Jordan, your favorite team. Okay. I crowdsourced this one to Chad Graff, my colleague at the Athletic, who does excellent. I didn't know that was a lot. Covering the Patriots. Bill Smith dunked on the Bengals. He's a researcher here. So shout out to Bill.

Go Bill. And so he had a great suggestion. We went back and forth on a couple of suggestions. His great one was draft Ladd-McConkey at number 34 instead of Bailen Polk at number 37. That's great. The Patriots traded back with the Chargers after Keon Coleman went first in the second round. The Chargers got Ladd.

Pats went for Polk. And I watched in person this last weekend, Drake may play in arguably his best game of the season. One of the better games from any rookie quarterback this year so far. And in part, they got him going and really got him into a groove with this offense by getting quick throws in space, guys getting open quickly and then him putting it on him right in the right spot at the right time and then where they could get a few more yards. My first thought when Chad brought this up was, wow, a perfect fit for a rookie quarterback who gets into a rhythm very quickly if that timing and tempo inserted into an offense are receivers who can get

open. Ladd-McConkie tied in seventh among rookie wide receivers right now with a minimum of 150 routes with 2.9 yards per separation. Jalen Polk is last. When I see McConkey, all I can see is how big his helmet looks on his head. And I was wondering if he was wearing a guardian cap or not, but no, it's just because it's just to scale, which is just proportions are amazing. He's, like his head is small or it's a Kyler Murray thing? Yes. Yeah. It's exactly right. Okay. I've, it's so crazy that Chad brought this up because I've thought about this. What a disastrous pick, this Jalen Polk pick has been so far. And that Ladd-McConkey was the name there that they were kind of tied to because it would make sense.

Also because Patriots fans are just traumatized by terrible wide receiver picks. And they're almost all in the second round. Like Bill Belichick just could not, other than Dionne Branch, could not draft a wide receiver. Tyquan Thornton released this week. You want to take a honk time out? No. Okay. I wanted to see you up for your team.

You're all the way back. I'm not all the way back. All right. Let's take a honk time out. Why not? Wow. Twist his arm. Why not save it?

Well, you've been getting on to me about like, oh, you're all the way. way back, this, that, or whatever. They've found the quarterback. Not all the way back. Like this week, for instance, when I assign, we assign out the games on Sundays who's going to cover, watch what, like, I'm not going to watch them every week. I don't want that to be the only thing that I'm watching live. But I thought Drake May, before they even drafted him, coming into the draft, I was like,

this is the prospect I'm as excited about, along with Caleb, as like any quarterback since like Andrew Luck, basically. I love that for you, Greg. And then the Patriots drafted him. So, of course, I'm going to be into that. I was texting you during the game. I was very happy for you. He was outstanding.

They've, ladies and gentlemen, they've got him. I, and this is how I know I'm not like the same as, like, some fans would be feeling out there because I've listened to Patriots podcast. Tom Curran has a great one, our friend. And of course, they're talking about the team and the season and the disappointments and the loss. And it's just like, none of this matters. Like watching that game, I could have cared less that they lost.

I've never had that experience as a fan where it's like literally the only thing that matters from this season is, did you just get yourself a franchise quarterback or not? And every week, it's like, oh, yes, you did. Oh, yes, you did. Oh, yes, you did. And it's even more and more. Like, I thought that was the best game the Patriots have had since Tom Brady retired because it's like, yes, he's definitely even, I'm even more convinced now that he's the guy. So I could care less. I don't have much faith. The talent on this roster is terrible. I don't know about the coaching stuff, but like he is the only thing that matters. Something they really got right in pairing with him was Alex Van Pelt, who is as a, I'm just saying great, for a young quarterback as a

presence, as a person, spend some time around him at Combines Pass. And just as a person who's going to be there for the quarterback, as somebody who you can go to, you feel comfortable with. Like, I just, I think that's the right pairing for, for this point in Drake May's career development. They've looked way better the last couple of weeks. And Drake May paved the way for Jacoby Brissette to have the progressive commercial that he has right now. And I love that for him. I haven't seen the Jacoby one yet. It's so funny.

They're doing taxes. Yeah, I've seen the Dobbs. I've seen the Case Keenum. I'm looking forward to that. It's one of my favorite campaign. And it is crazy. No player in the 2024 draft has been less what they were advertised to be than Jalen Polk. Like if you just go actually like read what people were expecting of them in terms of just like dependable.

Like maybe a low ceiling but a really high floor. Like great locker room guy like does all the little things. It's been the complete opposite. a total fiasco. Maybe it's just a bad rookie year. All right. Let's go to, oh, my God, it's me talking again. No, it's not. It's the Bears and Colleen. Let's go. We should give him the Jets. All right. Here we go. Bears.

Hiring Shane Waldron? This feels like a place that they could have had a do-over. I mean, when they fired him, the Bears were 24th and points per game, 30th and yards per game, 31st and yards per play. I know that they have a rookie quarterback who is just getting used to everything. but that could be one thing. Honestly, drafting Roamadunzee, though, and not taking a tackle feels like the way they should have gone here.

Their offensive line, the issues are obviously bad. Caleb has taken the most sacks in league this season. And left tackle, Braxton Jones, has allowed the highest pressure rate of any left tackle in the entire NFL. Really? I'm surprised by that. The three tackles, too, that were picked after Roe Madunzei, fashanu for the Jets. Fuaga for the Saints and Mims for the Bengals

all have pressure rates allowed below 10 so far this season. Good research. Good pull. Good pull. Yeah, this is actually how I came up one minute. The segment idea. I made this stupid life joke earlier, but this was a can of bean. It wasn't. I do like beans on toast, by the way. What kind of beans on? The blue can hines, like the British

baked beans on sourdough toast? Like the brown beans? Like baked beans, Colleen. That's like a British. Like, refried beans. The baked beans on the toast. I know. It's a weird thing that I like. Okay.

So they had Zach Robinson in their building and they picked Shane Waldron over him. That was how I came up with this because they were changing. He also interviewed Liam Cohen who's killing it. He interviewed Cliff Kingsbury, who I wouldn't have been in favor of that at the time, but he's doing pretty well. So that was when I came up with the do-over was like, yeah, you could have really done that one over. I thought Waldron was getting too much blame. and then they come out against the Packers and we'll talk about it more

on the preview show, but they were a totally different offense. Caleb looked awesome. That was one of the best games by a rookie quarterback all year. The energy, the vibes were really good. Talking to a couple of people in the building, you heard that players reached out to Thomas Brown about the energy specifically improving. I mean, that's pretty significant to me.

Any more, and I would give you a technical honking timeout foul. I'm saving mine. I'm reverse McVeighing this. The baked beans on top. toast recipe that I just pulled up actually looks pretty good. It's yummy. Okay. Well, that's our homework assignment for next week before the Thanksgiving Tuesday show.

Let's take a quick break and then we will finish up doing the do-overs for teams under 500. Just one thing. Do it over. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now, I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel?

That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects

to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft. analyze matchups and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back on your Beans on Toast headquarters here. Yeah, on sourdough. Podcast studio. I guess it makes sense because beans good. I think, like, bread, good.

Yeah, obviously, it's going to be good. Like, what's not good on toast, more or less? I don't think I'd go out of my way to do it, but, uh... I would try it. It's comforting. I would have it. It's warm. I usually do a tortilla.

It's good for your gut health, sourdough bread and beans, you know? Yeah. Big gut health time of year for people, you know? Yeah. What do you know about sour? Wait, why is it a big gut health time of year? Isn't it always a gut health time of year? Before Thanksgiving? Okay, just to get ready for it. Just clean everything out, take everything in. Yeah, speaking of overseas delicacies. Colleen is coming back here from Germany. Yes.

We have not spoken. We have not. At length, I mean, some text. But not, not really like big picture. How was Germany? It was so much fun. And it was so great to see Joe Thomas for the first time in a while. I think actually, it might be the first. first time I've seen him since he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. And we were there for his whole shindig. So that was really great. He took me. He was living in Munich for nine months. And so he took me around and showed me all of these things. He was coaching the offensive line for one of the German teams over there. So he brought his whole family over there. He brought the entire operation over there. They all live there. He has four kids, young kids. Like, what an adventure that they had. They went all over the place to South Africa and did so many

cool things. So he showed me all of the spots that they went to, took me to the Austrian border, saw the Alps. But one of my favorite parts of the entire trip was after the game had ended, there's like usually a little get-together, a gathering of everyone that's involved from the league and the production and everything. So myself and Sarah Walsh thought it would be a perfect time to pitch a table of SVPs on a new platform that we think would be a really good hit called NFL minus. And we, you know, everyone's trying to do more. I think we need to pivot and do less. More is less. Like less is more. It all works together. And, you know, we'll see if it has a future. As one of the SVPs pointed out, we would be the first in the minus space.

That's a great point. Groundbreaking. Innovation. How many beers deep was this? Many, many, many. Like I want to, yeah, I do want to think about what the content plan would be. Not much. Yeah. So it doesn't take a whole lot of resources. NFL minus coming to like an NFL daily plug near you. I'm excited for that.

And the off season seems like the perfect time to launch a little NFL minus. It was fun seeing you over there. Let's talk about these teams. Okay. So we've gone through about half of them. We're going to go through the other half here. We're doing one do-over for these teams that are under 500 and hopefully providing a path forward. You are up next, Jordan, with the Jaguars.

All right. Where to pick? Where to pick? Yeah. Oh, man. You caught them at a good time. The year is 2022. The Jaguars hired Doug Peterson on February 3rd as one particular candidate for that year's hiring cycle

continued to prepare for the Super Bowl. Doug Peterson went on to lead the Jaguars to a 2025 record over the next three years pending the next couple weeks. maybe do-over. Fast forward to 2024 where the Kevin O'Connell led Jacksonville Jaguars are streaking toward the postseason. Trevor Lawrence gets better every week led by the ultra-empathetic, ultra-bright quarterback whisperer himself. O'Connell. Still brings Brian Flores to Jacksonville with him and Flores brings his defense-altering veteran players. Unrealized offensive potential is finally realized. Kevin and Trevor do Peyton sip classes together with their wives on the end in the off season. Oh my God. The super empathetic is really...

Yeah, that's where it got. He's like handsome, you know. He's got it all. What can he do? He is great. He's a quarterback whisperer. He could really reach Trevor, you know? Did they interview O'Connell?

Do you happen to know or no? I don't think they did. I don't think so. This team, they, we got on them on Sunday when I assumed that Doug Peterson was going to be fired. He has not been fired yet. I hate this watch. I hate waiting for it. I hate the like Belichick is interested in it.

Are we just going to get? get that with every team that that's coming up. Just it's almost like Doug Peterson wants to get fired and they like they won't let him get fired. Like I don't even know what's happening. He's just hostage there. I don't know. Like I think he knows the score.

Like he's been around. He knows it's going to happen. He's just kind of waiting for it. That's this time of year though. You know, that's what goes on behind the scenes in these hiring cycles is, you know, in September, October, coaches who are either free agents or potentially upcoming coaches start to get put together staff, staff ideas, and really start to circle, like, you know,

Vulture a little bit over potential opening. So that's why you're seeing this come out now. Better opportunity, though, there in Jacksonville. I actually think there's good players, Brian Thomas Jr. Trayvon Walker's turning into a pretty good, like they have. You already used your time out. They have players. I'm just saying that that's a better job than other ones.

I think it would be attractive, especially for GMs. You wanted to give me a technical before? That was like the same amount of time. Titans, start the clock. The rules are a little different. different for Greg, aren't they? They are. Here's where we're going to go back in time to.

The moment that you sided with Ran Carthon in a power struggle between Mike Ravel. You know what I mean? Like, not that Ran Carthon was necessarily the wrong side, but when the power struggle is happening in your building, just get rid of it. Or not. Like, don't just pick the side that makes more sense to you.

Because, again, just like the Jets have done, over the years. The two sides are not necessarily aligned. What was Rand Carthon's big plan this offseason? Spend a lot of money on this defense. Let's get Legerius Sneed. Let's get Chidobio Uzi. They did not act like a team that was sort of building from scratch. I don't know what it had to do with the Brian Callahan as coach, you know, model. Moving forward, you got to get Callahan a quarterback. And look, this is his coach. So these two have to make it work together. But I just don't like choosing with one side of a pretty nasty power struggle because that's just like dating someone who you started dating them when they're cheating on their spouse. It's like there's probably

going to be more power struggles. You know what I mean? There's probably going to be more messiness. Yeah, there was already a red flag. Yes. So there'll be, I think, is what you meant to say, that there will be some red flags down the line at that point. Mike Rable is probably going to get hired as a head coach this year. And so I think, In fairness to Brian Callahan, kind of like how we talk about with quarterbacks, you don't really know necessarily what you've got if a quarterback has like a tattered offensive line or a tattered receiving core or whatever or maybe a subpar coordinator. With offensive coordinators, you don't really know what you've got until he's got an actual quarterback to work with. So are you suggesting that they should have fired Rand too at the same time, just like blow it all up? Or, yeah.

Because I'm thinking about Trent Balke in Jacksonville since we were just talking about. talking about that. All the rumors that were swirling before Doug Peterson was hired. Right. It's like Rand Carthin was there for a couple of years. So this team isn't really totally his team because it was kind of Mike Brable's team. And then you side with it. Now it's not totally Brian Calli.

It's just. It's no one's team. Incongruous. That's right. Yes. Cowboys, Colleen. Truly so many directions that we could go in. Architecturally.

Honestly, I mean, paying deck and CD Lamb, not firing McCarthy and swapping for Bill Belichick, which I feel like that would be a huge spot for Bill Belichick to be the Cowboys head coach, but not investing in the run game is, it feels boring, but that is the winner for me. I mean, when you, obviously, we know from watching the game, the numbers are really bad. So I won't go into those again. But the group of running backs that were available last off season, are you kidding me, makes this so much worse.

You had Sequin Barclay, Josh Jacobs, Derek Henry, D'Andre, DeAndre Swift, Tony Pollard, Austin Eckler, Aaron Jones, J.K. Dobbins, who just won the game for the Chargers. There were so many talented running backs. And I'm almost already rolling my eyes at the people who are bringing back the argument that, oh my God, so I guess running backs are important now. But they were always important. This was always something that needed to be done, especially in Dallas. And I would give an honorable mention to the hiring of Mike Zimmer as Dan Quinn's replacement. The Cowboys are allowing 29 points per game. Only the Panthers are worse. They've completely fallen apart at home. 37.4 points per game. The worst home points per game allowed

by any team in an entire season in NFL history. It's never been worse. I mean, you have obviously the injuries that play into this, Michael Parsons and Duran Bland and DeMarcus Lawrence. But this feels like a systemic situation that could have maybe gone a different direction had they figured that out from the top. Yeah, it's doing, if you were going to give them that money, give it to them earlier and not have cast up Paul over the whole season. And then maybe you could have freed up that money for free agency.

The coach in the last year of his contract. There's a reason why teams don't do that. Yeah. This is the reason. Yeah. I'm going to call a honk time out. Oh, great. I'm going to talk about the roof falling there.

Well, I want to go back to. Well, I would love to because I just am baffled by. all of the architectural decisions over there, team building and otherwise. Colleen, I love that you brought up the run game on this because I agree with you. Because in a season where,

let's say, all of this other stuff was going to happen anyway, you have a lame duck head coach who just sinks deeper into misery on the sideline. You have players there, now you're in a space with this team now where you know there are people in the camera truck literally assigned to catch all of the looks of dismay

and disgust and disappointment on the sideline from Micah Parsons, from C.D. Lamb, from Dak. C.D. is like, is camera three my camera? Oh, oh, thanks. There's a lot of people working at EBS. From DAC, up in the booth. Like, it is, um, you,

they're at that point in the season where the sky is literally falling. Um, and could have seriously hurt somebody because you're, and the stadium is, is style over substance where the sun is in people's eyes and there are tours that make people look at what the players through a glass window when they're lifting weights. And it is, you're seriously in this place where it's so style over substance this year and so glaringly clear. If you had a run game, you got substance. You have teeth. You have physicality. You have something that actually proves I am a real football team and I know what I'm about, son. Like this is an identity. This is not that. This is style points only and that's why

the Cowboys are in dire straits this year. Well, that reminds me of the Super Bowl that was in Dallas. Do you remember what happened there with that stadium? No. That they tried to build an extra scene section. Oh, my God, that's right. And then it, like, collapsed or whatever. And they had to find, I think the statute of limitations is fine.

They had to find NFL employees to give up their Super Bowl seats. This was all reported by my employer at the time pro football talk. So, you know, they had to find, like, NFL employees to like give up. I'm not part of this discussion. I'm going to go this way. sleep this entire part out. This is really not contribution.

I love this talk timeout. It was all written about. Adequately used honk time out. It really was. They have... Do you need a cigarette? No.

You got some beans all right? All right. Before we move on, if you could do it again. I'm not saying if the cowboys could do it again. Although that's interesting too. Would you give Dak that contract?

I think knowing where they are right now? I wanted him. I wanted him trade it. I wanted him to go somewhere. Glorious. I actually think trading him at that. moment in time

was probably the move for this team. Yeah. Not cutting him or anything. Of course. He's Dak Prescott, but yeah. I know in Cowboys fans would be like, yeah, but there's cap ramifications. It would have been all this dead hits. Like, yeah, well, I don't know. You messed that up. Bucks, Jordan.

You're up. Okay. It's week seven with a minute four left to play in Bucks Ravens. And after taking a seven-yard sack, Baker Mayfield is eyeing a third and 17. He throws a 21-yard pass up the middle to star receiver Chris Godwin, who makes the catch, but then crumbles to the ground with a brutal ankle injury that will eventually require surgery and end his season. Do-over, it's Kyle Trask throwing to Jalen McMillan or Sterling Shepard because starters were pulled with six minutes and 38 seconds left in the fourth quarter when Lamar Jackson's touchdown pass to Derek Henry made it a 23-point game. I admire Todd Bowles a lot, one of my favorite coaches in this league. I understand his response to this. After the game that they were trying to win. And indeed, they ripped out two touchdowns in those last few minutes against the most

preventive of prevent defense as it gets. And I know that Todd Bowles understands his players wanted to win and wanted to fight. I also admire the job that Liam Cohen, Baker Mayfield and a group on both sides of the ball that has been decimated by injuries, but play so hard every week, I admire the job that they're done. But if they could go back and do this again, preventing a gruesome and horrific injury to one of the best young receivers in this league are older, but still young receivers in this league, I bet you they would take that opportunity for a duo. And the path forward to me is go

go win the damn thing. And I don't mean like the Super Bowl. I mean the NFC South. With their schedule and the way the Falcons look, I think they still have a chance. I know they don't have the tiebreaker. They're only one lost back. There's a lot of weeks to go. They're a talented team because I think it might take that for Todd Bulls to keep his job. Whether that's fair or not, I don't know. But I could see them promoting Liam Cohn. I could certainly see them, they seem like the most likely Belichick team to me just because of his history with Jason Light. So a lot on the table here

for the Bucks down the stretch. I'm looking right now at when Henden Hooker went in the game for the Lions just based on how much of a blowout game that was over the Jags and just the decision that coaches have of when to pull the guys out of the game,

the starters, and how you kind of balance that. That was a great one. I wanted to have like a single play to change as one of mine and it's just That's a great. You give it out the assignment so you could have the power to if you wanted. I could thank you for your grace. I just mean I

thank you for your graciousness. You have the power. Come up with a play or something like that. I mean we did go all Sean McVeigh and use all of our timeouts with like way too early of the game. I'm doing the Saints because you have to just do the obvious that DA should have never come back this season. And so I think

spinning forward for them it's interesting how much better they're playing with Darren Rizzy. There's a lot more left of the season. I could actually see keeping Darren Rizzy if you didn't keep Mickey Loomis. The players love him. There's no way they're going to do that

because I think this job is going to be so gnarly for any coach to come in that they truly have to eat some of these contracts. Because bringing D.A. back also just have them kick all these cans down the road even further. People think, oh, this is an older team. Like, they're stuck with it,

blah, blah, blah. It's probably because of the moves they made this year. They extended Derek Carr this year. Like, Kim, Kim Jordan, and some of the veterans, like, they got new contracts this year that just kind of kicked financial pain into the future where they're not going to be able to get out from under it. So they should have done that

earlier. There was no path towards Dennis Allen ever being a... Everyone knew that he was a lame done coach coming into the season, and there were guys out there like Belichick, like Rabel. that they could have went with. I think it's nice that I love Coach Riz. That's what everyone calls him.

We had him on GMFB, one of the shows that I did. And he was awesome. He was just so fun, so cool. I totally can see why the players are playing the way they are for him, with him. I think he's a beans on toast guy. Do you think that Mickey Loomis will keep his job, Greg? I do genuinely want to know your take on that. I think he will, but I don't.

Should he? No. That's what I mean. You can't do a restart there without that Their path forward though is pretty simple I know people like Spencer Rattler and everything But they got to just keep taking quarterbacks They got to try to find a couple extra picks

And hit on them because it's been a minute since they did This last class, we'll see And what happens with Chris Olive? I mean, I know he's obviously there But like man, the vibes and the protectiveness that you have to, whoever comes in has to have over that young man This is Greg's second favorite team

And I see the pain on his face that's right I don't know are they my second favorite I don't know I just feel like Tulane New Orleans I got

I got quite sick of like the end of the Peyton Breeze era but I do like them if they need to get the right coach that we can

embrace not this old Mickey Loomis stuff Panthers Colleen oh man okay

like they are they are they're similar to the cowboys in that you can go in so many different directions the sky is the

limit with options here but just like in a more much more tragic way when you put them one to one against the Cowboys. I guess the main one I'd go with is they should have started the season, I think, with Andy Dalton instead of benching Bryce Young because letting him get blown out to start the year just doesn't feel like a great way to develop your quarterback and his confidence.

Obviously, now that he's starting again, his numbers are much better and the Panthers are two and one and they're three games back with him. But losing by 37, week one, to the Saints, and then 23 by 23 points, week two to the Chargers, like that, that's not great on a team that already has so many issues. And they're trying to get his confidence back, especially after last year. I think they just should have maybe had a softer landing or transition for him into this year. They had a lot of issues already, to your point on that side of the ball. And I keep coming back as well to the reporting.

some of the buzz and chatter around Adjero Everro last season and how there were other teams who were sort of circling around the Panthers, thinking that perhaps this team could let him out of the final year on his contract. And they did not because they wanted to have, to

be able to fall back on their defense just in case the offense still struggled. Well, that was not Dave Canales' higher. And so you have a little bit of incongruism icity. Right. And Bryce Young wasn't his quarterback. And he wasn't his quarterback. So now you're patching all. of these different pieces together in different ways.

And I think Giro Evers, a dang good coach. At the same time, getting everything on the same page in that building has been such a chore over the last several years. And I am curious to see if Dave Canales just decides to go his own way over the next year or two years. Some of the things they wanted to do have worked. They do have a running game. The offensive line is better.

I have a little bit of hope. I think he's, you know, Bryce is playing better. Giants. Jordan. Only two more to go. Where to pick. Yeah. Where to pick. As stars in the sky? No. Giants fans will almost assuredly want me to say, do-over, don't let Saquan Barkley out of the building. But I like Saquan too much as a person.

I'm too happy for him and for Colleen to resign him to that fate. And I would argue that I truly don't believe he'd have this level of success if still in New York with the Giants in their current state. I would call a do-over on the entire quarterback situation I would have moved on from Daniel Jones, regardless of the financial ramifications. You already were going to be drafting and building out a young team. You knew Daniel Jones was not going to elevate that group. In fact, if you have to ask yourself whether your quarterback can actually help your team grow up,

you have the wrong quarterback. I would have either pushed a trade for a quarterback or drafted one, even if stuck at number six, even if we're talking about the present year. Because I actually don't hate the idea, and I'm sorry, this is crazy I know, of Bo Nix, how he's playing right now, paired with Brian Daible. And you have number six overall. You're telling me a team with an established quarterback is not going to listen to you if you have that pick floating around in the ether.

The theme of this whole entire episode is set your ego aside and be able to admit when you're wrong. And then that will, you know, provide a path for success. I talk too much about the Giants on the Monday night recap with Shook based on the benching of Danny Dimes. and we promised actually that I would not talk about Daniel Jones again

until he was released. And even then, it would be just looking forward that we've been over this this Giants team. I don't know. Your eye just twitched. Did you see that?

I do think this also, it does all come back to Saquan Barclay in the end because remember guys, they tagged him in 2023 and they decided to pay Daniel Jones after initially declined to Daniel Jones' fifth year option.

and instead of paying Barclay, and that was the beginning of the end. Oh, it's the fifth of your option, because if they gave that to him to begin with, that would have been it. Exactly. Then they would have gotten rid of. Do over.

We got the right two over. I'm going to wrap up with the Raiders, who to me are very similar to the Giants conversation that we just had. I think Brock Bowers is the best receiving tight end in the NFL right now. I think he's a rookie, but so you don't want to put too much on him,

but he looks like a future Hall of Famer because he's the best, I mean, he's as good a receiving tight end that I've ever seen, because partly because players just get better, I think, as the years get on, they get more talented, and he is the newest version of an

evolution that's been going on for like 20 years. He is that good. Like, he is all pro now good. And yet, I think the move coming into this season is still, As good as he is at tight end, as good as Malik neighbor is going to be at wide receiver. I do think it's trading up and going and getting J.J. McCarthy.

You could have done it. You could have done it for Peddx, too, who we heard that they loved. They would have taken Bo Nix, according to reports, if he had fallen to them. And that's partly why Denver took him at. That's for 12, I believe it was. Because this season now just felt like a big waste of time. Didn't really give Antonio Pierce a chance to build something. If Pierce isn't back next year, you're like on.

four different head coaches getting hired and getting paid by the same team and Tom Brady's maybe going to want to pick some guy you could have some quarterback there for Tom Brady to go in there and tutel it. Tudor, like that's a show. What? Tom Brady's going to do what? He's got a tutelage. He's got a tutelage.

He's got a tutelage. He's mind on the beans. Yeah, that's how it works. Yeah, I don't know. The Raiders are a disaster. They've been a disaster though. It feels like for a while and just the shot of Max Crosby at the end of that game last week. I don't know if you guys saw it, but it was just pure dejection.

Poor Raiders fans. They are so loyal. They're such good fans. They really are. They travel. And they just been giving nothing back. And this team, they're not even interesting.

Well, I'll give you Brock Bowers. He is interesting. Time to come home, you have a foundation piece with Max Crosby. All right, that's it for all the doovers for the teams under 500.

That was fun, Jordan. Good idea. We're going to wrap up the show with a little T and F preview after the break. Hey, this is Matt Jones. And I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero.

We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day.

Plus, we dig into coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back on NFL Daily where, yes, Tom Brady was going to tutelage. A quarterback. He said he's going to tutle him.

Sounds fun. We have recedes. Greg. Sorry, I did the thing where I called a Craig a Greg. Vice versa. That's happened to me before. This is amazing. Craig Horbeck of the Ringer Fantasy Football show has an amazing Tom Brady impression that you guys should just go seek out.

I love Rex. More recommendation. Should people finish listening to this show before doing this? We have a spicy TNF preview coming. I reposted it on Blue Sky. So check out my Blue Sky account. Nice. There.

I helped recruit you on there. I need to work on my Tom Brady impression. That was me warming. Wow. Maybe trying to do it. Go ahead. Go ahead, Greg. You have the floor.

That's a great show. That's a great. That's an A plus. Throw K. B. I don't know. No, that's not good. I got to work on it. Leave it in, Eric.

It just sounds so angry. It just sounds so angry all the time. Yeah, because nobody could possibly live up to his expectations. Yeah. They're very high. Take that out. Eric, leave that in. Okay.

It is time for our TNF preview presented by prime video. Brown Steelers. There's some fun things to talk about with this game. Yeah, the Browns not playing well. Overall, their defense has kind of collapsed. It's kind of been a small story there. Jim Schwartz. They're 25th right now in DVOA on the season. They really miss JOK. There's poor communication. There's coverage bus. This is Russell Wilson coming off his worst game as a stealer by a good amount, I would say. This should be the perfect matchup to maybe turn that around because this is a Brown team

that's given up a lot of big plays. The perfect matchup, if this was the Steelers of old, if you remember, they would always win the big games and then they would immediately play down to their competition. Good point.

On a short week after they just had this battle with Baltimore and now they have the Browns and it's a division game. So it feels like there are all the makings here for this to maybe be a letdown. I'm still picking the Steelers in this game, but both of these pass rushes are really good. So I'm not sure how many points are going to be scored.

I don't know how many turnovers there's going to be. T.J. Watt always seems to have big games against the Browns. And Watt plays over 90% of his snaps on the left side, which puts him up against right tackle Jack Conklin. And Conklin, since he started in week six, he's allowed eight quick pressures, the second most among all right tackles in that span. So I can't imagine that they're going to move Watt,

around a lot because they don't have Alex Highsmith out there. Plus, James Winston, we know what happens when he gets that pressure and when he's in bad situations, he'll just throw one up. The Lord takes over. Exactly. So that's

like honestly, the pass rushes on both sides, I think is the most interesting part of this game. Yeah, I am going to love seeing both defenses from this. The Steelers feel to me like just obviously much more of a complete team. so ultimately I'm going to pick them as well.

But I will say, you know how a lot of times we joke in games that are like a shootout, for example, that are like, oh, last score wins or last points win or whoever has the ball last. To me, this is last turnover wins or last forced turnover wins because both of these defenses are going to be active, in my opinion, or are going to do their best to be active in a variety of different ways from rush to coverage. And like I said, I think front to back, even without Alex Heismet, the Steelers are just such a complete full-bodied team on both sides of the ball now, but I do think that this is going to be a defensive battle. And we're going to see some really cool pass rush plans, guys.

Okay. That's exciting. Okay. Yeah, because the offensive line for the Browns has been terrible. Jedrick Wilson might play in this game. They lost Duane Jones for the season on Sunday, who had been stepping in at left tackle. They don't really have a plan right now at tackle short or long term, and that's brutal going up against Pittsburgh. I hear your pull. though, about the Steelers playing down. That was an emotional rivalry game win. This is a division matchup on the road in a short week. Just for feels and vibes.

That's what I'm going with that. And like the Steelers secondary to me has been up and down. Like Joey Porter Jr. is a very good example of it. He was one of the reasons why they won that game against the Ravens. He was fantastic. But his bad games has been very bad. So maybe they can get it going. I thought James played pretty well against the Saints,

actually. I was surprised when I went back that the last couple of games, even the one, even the two starts ago, which you felt like a little bit of a fiasco for him. I didn't think it was as bad at the tape. Maybe it's just because, you know, I've always been a James guy and even in a game like that where you lose 35 to 14 against the Saints,

like he had four or five throws in that game that were like incredible throws. So he's fun. At least entertain us. James and the Saints, it just makes sense. Yeah. And I think too that this is going to be where you are correct in talking about their past defense and it's been up and down. When they take the ball away,

they do it in spurts. They do it multiple times, either in a game or week over week. And when things are on the ground in front of them, they don't miss tackles. The Steelers have missed the least amount of tackles in the entire NFL this season, just 63. They can wrap at almost a 90% rate, wrap and bring you to the ground on first contact. So you're not going to create much against them unless it is literally over the top of them. It does concern me a little bit that aside from George Pickens, none of the Steelers' wide receivers could get open against the league's worst passing defense.

Like that was really bad. You had George Pickens, who was 8 for 89, and then everybody else combined for two catches for three yards. Yeah, we'll see if Mike Williams gets more in the mix, but they're playing Van Jefferson and Calvin Austin over him. Although he was still out there a decent amount of snaps and didn't do much. The book to stop Russ is split safeties, don't let them hit shots down the field. The Ravens did that more against him, but not even 50% of the time.

He averaged 1.8 adjusted yards per attempt when they were playing in that split safety shell, which is just trying to take away the deep pass. So I know Jim Schwartz, it's not really his style, but he likes to be aggressive and try to take away the middle of the field, all this stuff. like that that wouldn't necessarily work against Russell Wilson. Yeah, invert the plan. Right. You know, I know it's way easier me saying it than actually doing it.

But take what you normally do very, very well if you're Jim Schwartz. And then simply invert it and bring as much pressure as you possibly can. I try to check out the local coverage to see what's going on. Yeah, what's going on? What are the streets saying? Zach Jackson, I believe at the athletic. He said on his podcast, he thought to keep an eye on Kevin Stefansky getting fired out after this game.

Whoa. Now, he didn't say that exactly, but he just, he said it in a way that you knew that's what he was saying. That six out of the last seven Brown's coaches have been fired after a Steelers lost.

Now that's... No. What a stat. Wait, really? That seems more circumstantial, but a handful of them have been under this ownership. Hold on.

What's that stat again? I'm going to write that down. Six out of seven. Last Brown's, yeah, coaches fired after after... Wow. Now, they do play again later in the season.

Maybe that would be a more likely spot. The thing he pointed out, which I think was really well said, was literally no one knows what ownership is thinking there, no one. No one's talking. Well, that's clear. Like no, but no one knows, like, no one's in contact with them. No one knows.

And so to talk. Are they okay? Where are they? To talk about what's next for the Browns in terms of their path forward, for instance. You kind of have to find out first, is Andrew Barry going to be there? The guy who put this aging, most expensive roster in NFL history together, like, does he lose his job because of that? Because if he's not there, then, like, what are we even talking about?

You have to find out, is Kevin Stefansky going to be there? He might be on the hot seat now. Even though he just got a contract extension, this is what happens when things are like this ugly, two and eight losing by 21 to Rizball. And on the other side of things. Yeah. Mike Tomlin and Art Smith and, you know, this is an example, Russell Wilson, like, this is an example of a team that, and a.

head coach that was not okay with status quo anymore who has made decisions this year to push and to really kind of break through that eight and nine or nine and eight or we never have a losing season sort of meme that we've made out of this and yeah that's been solid but he wants better than solid he wants to actually take risks and make these decisions that put him you know out on the limb a little bit and I think that is where you see such a contrast between a team that is in literal quicksand right now and in its own way at every turn because of the decisions that it made

and then this Mike Tomlin team that we think about as like this steel sluggish behemoth just like moving down the street Are you talking about Ben Rathosberger? No, no, but really it's like this team that's just like, yeah, it's 16 points and if you score 17 you'll beat him but good luck score in 17

and sometimes that's true still with this group but they're not that ethos anymore. They've taken enough risks, I think, to really make themselves into this complete team that is dangerous in every phase. Yeah, they are absolutely contenders to be the one seed in the AFC at this point. I know the schedule is hard, but they keep beating the bad, the good teams on their schedule to this point. So. Unexpected. Yeah. Hayward, I think maybe is like a under the radar defensive player of the year candidate, John Ledyard, who I really like a lot through that out there, that he thinks like he's been a better player than T.

on balance, Cam Hayward has been fantastic. Keep an eye on if they use Justin Fields a little more, maybe in the Red Zone. They are 30th in the NFL in the Red Zone this year. Now, a lot of that was with Justin Fields, but his numbers were much better than Russell Wilson's, and it would make sense why Russell Wilson is throwing, he's completing 29% of his passes in the Red Zone,

and you have this running quarterback. I wouldn't be afraid. He doesn't live in his fears, like a lot of these teams. There's an alternate universe where we're doing the do-over for teams under 500. segment and the Steelers are part of it and we say they shouldn't have stuck with Kenny Pickett another year. I know you

gave them a first round, you picked them in the first round, but you got to know when to evaluate your own roster. They didn't. They traded them to the Eagles for a bag of donuts. All right, that was this week's TNF preview presented by Prime Video. Be sure to watch the Pittsburgh Steelers take on the Cleveland Browns this

Thursday on Prime Video. That point about using Justin Fields makes so much sense, too, because of what Taysam Hill just did against the Browns last week. Hey. A little tape out there. She's the television professional. Colleen Wolfe, everybody.

You should just throw your mic. That really is right. I would love to throw this computer. Let's go. We're not beating there. Play the music. Goodbye. As always, one of my favorite days of the week.

With you two. Stay tuned. Preview show. Patrick Claibon, Steve Weish on Wednesday. We'll see you then. When we're all knowing, and yes, when we're tutelaging, you know football is back. Bye. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sundays. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.