NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Out the Womb with Patrick Claybon and Post-Hype All Stars with Patrick Daughtery

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Patrick Claybon to get you caught up on news from training camps around the NFL including Bradon Aiyuk holding in and Trent Williams holding out of 49ers camp (4:00), Tua Tagovailoa's status to start Dolphins camp (7:12), Daniel Jones being cleared for first-team reps at Giants camp (9:05) and. After the break, Patrick Daugherty joins the show to talk fantasy players to target whose shine has worn off (21:35). Gregg and Patrick wrap up the show with early contenders for the best quotes from the early stages of training camp (45:35).  Note: time codes approximateNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we are straight out the womb and into the Chris Wesleying podcast studio here with Patrick Claibon. And really lucky to be joined by him today and Patrick Dardy of Rotoworld coming up a little later to talk about post-hyped sleepers from the world of fantasy and we'll do some dumb stuff at the end. But yeah, Jim Harbaugh

getting us off to the right start this week. Famously, our again now, co-worker Akbar Baja Biaa says he remembers being born. So he and Coach Harbaal have that in common. Okay, let's just listen to the sound now. This was going to be part

of dumb stuff later, but let's listen. The way it feels, I mean, it feels like New Year's Day, you know, It feels like being born. It feels like coming out of the womb, you know. It's like you're in there and it's comfortable and it's safe. And now you're out. You're born.

The lights are on. You know, it's bright. Get chaos. People looking at you. People talking at you. And it just feels good to have it happen. There is like a medical condition. I've done this.

you know, research before about people that can really remember things to an incredible degree. Now, there's also people that say they remember coming out of the womb. There is no scientific proof or way to disprove really that Akbar is wrong. No, I'm, look, if somebody says that they remember that experience, like, I don't want to remember it because as coach outlines there, the lights are bright. You've never seen light before. Yeah. You've never seen people before. you don't you don't understand anything it's got to be chaotic i don't want to remember but you know shout out to anybody that does that's a lot yeah i think the condition or whatever you call is highly super autobiographical memory h sam one of just 60 people you know just about 60 people in the world

with this that actually can't remember things like and be right about it but not not then and yeah that would be a tough that'd be a tough memory here here's what you got slime all you know got stuff all over you not a medical term there um just caused a lot of pain for some someone that you love, I found as a new dad, it was a tricky experience. People say that's like the best moment of your life. I did not feel that because it was, it was a tough situation. The person I loved the most in this life, my wife, was not in great condition right then. And there was a lot going on and it was a little dicey. So I was very happy that that part was over and happy to see my daughter Ellis. But I would not, it took a little while for

it to set in and to get over the fact that this person I've known for a long time just went through something extremely traumatic. And now imagine that from Ellis's standpoint. Right, right. That's a whole lot. So. Right. They had to like take her over to the NICU, the intensive care unit because it's like a soft head and stuff. It's just a lot going on. So, so yeah, that's what training camp is like per Kurt Cobball. And, you know, the best part is if you watch the clip on, on YouTube, we are there, like and subscribe us there. He actually motions what it would be like coming out of that womb, Jim Harba. I love having Jim Harbaugh in the NFL.

And yeah, they're down in Elsa Gundo. I hope to get there at some point during training camp. It's so close. We're so close to it. And they are at their new facilities. There is. And he's just the best. And yeah, they were one of the last teams to report.

Now every single team. is at training camp, even the teams that had to wait one extra day because they're starting on Monday night football. Everyone is there. Virtually everyone is practicing. It is happening. And let's talk some news before we get to the dumb stuff. News. All right, let's start in San Francisco. One surprise, one mini surprise, but not really today. Let's start with the obvious news, which is Brandon Ayyuk, is holding in. He is not practicing. He was seen at the of practice briefly on Wednesday and then went inside to have a conversation with general

manager John Lynch. I don't know if they decide. I've seen this in the past that they decide it's almost a distraction for him to be standing out there. He might as well stay inside. He's in the meeting rooms, I assume, and lifting weights and all that, but maybe not out at practice. The bigger surprise with Trent Williams was not there, did not report for training camp and is looking for a new contract. One of the best players in the NFL, that's news. We're Yeah, it's definitely newsworthy. And you know the results, like we've seen it time and time again when Trump Williams is not there. He's the biggest piece, literally and figuratively on that offensive line. He's a part of what makes everything go, what makes them so dominant. And it makes perfect sense to me at this point in his career, still having that value in using whatever leverage he has, you know, because it's more difficult now than it was before. But you can still use that to say, hey, I would I would like to be compensated properly. Yeah, so he has three more years left on his deal. So that's tricky.

They maybe did not see this coming, but he's been so good, the best tackle in the league that he has quite a bit of leverage, I believe, and he's willing to take the fines. I did a deep dive on these mandatory fines because it's confusing. But Trent Williams is at a point in his career where he will be fined. It's a mandatory. They can't waive it even if they want to. I believe it's $50,000 a day. That's a lot of money, but he will make a lot of money when he gets this contract adjusted.

He is on the books for a $31 million cap figure this year, but the actual money he's making is much lower. It's under $25 million, and he sees, under $21 million. He sees the market out there. And I don't think it's a disease of more thing that Pat Riley famously talked about with the heat when you win. I think it's just a disease of you have all these great players and a lot of continuity. yeah and and i'm sure some folks might look at it and look at the contract

situation like debo um the bosa's right and and so it's like oh well the 49ers just you know guys are grabbing more this is just what happens like you said like when you have players of this caliber you have to pay those guys and they want those guys around so they ultimately end up doing it and you know fingers crossed maybe for iuk that'll take place yeah he had signed trend williams had signed a six year deal three years ago now so yeah it's it's been a minute. And we'll see. That one's interesting. C.D. Lamb, by the way, his fines, he can be fine by the Cowboys. I didn't mention this on our previous show. But because he's on a fifth year option, there is a rule in the CBA. The team can waive it. So that is a

situation where he's almost certainly not going to pay any fine money in the end. And I do think that we'll get done. In other contract news, Tua, Tunga Vailoa is not doing everything at Dolphins camp he's there he's doing some drills not all drills i'm not big into the d word distraction but it's it maybe the w weird it's just weird it's just a little weird especially in and you're the quarterback it's unfair but the quarterback is just different and like coach noted that their relationship right it's it's standard it's the same uh nothing's gonna strain that my question is why are why is why is this still happening like the price is not not going to go down, right?

Because I don't think they've got to pay him. This is the trickiest contract situation, I think, in the league, that his numbers would say he should just get the Joe Burrow type of contract, just like right near the top. I don't think they're going to pay him that. So I think it's a stand. I think it's going to be a little bit of a standoff. He might have to swallow some pride or take a little less money. I think they're trying to get him at a lower, lower amount.

Well, then it puts him. a situation where, okay, so Tua signs for something very short term, right? Okay. And then he outperforms that. Now you've got the same exact problem, but it's even worse, right? So if you got to, you would seem to behoothe them to make some sort of decision where if you trot them out there to be the starting quarterback, considering the seasons that he has had, you're saying he should be paid.

So it's just going to cost them money, right? Maybe, but I guess I'm looking at this as a view of like he's not necessarily their quarterback in three years. He probably is, but they, I think they're maybe checking to see if he stays healthy another season. I think that's, I think that's part of it. And so maybe they're being a little more hardline than most teams. We'll see. Daniel Jones, of course, got his money. He got one of those short-term contract.

I'm sure they'd give him Daniel Jones's contract. Like two years, $40 million a year, which for Daniel Jones was great, but it's a very clean-out. after two years. I wonder if they're closer to that type of deal. Good news for Jones is that he is healthy enough to practice fully at camp. He's taking all the first team reps at camp. I found that a little noteworthy because our friend Daniel Jeremiah put it out there over the summer on his podcast, move the sticks, which I believe is on a hiate. No, I'm just kidding. It is still happening. I need to not throw out that bad information. It's great, him and Bucky. And two I mean, Daniel Jones will be backed up by Drew Locke and Daniel seemed to indicate he thought

Drew Locke has a real chance to win this job long term. But for now, they're not giving him any reps. Yeah. For now, it's it's dimes all the way. I could see a scenario if Daniel Jones isn't right, 100% back because athleticism is such a big partner in this game. And maybe drew lock sneaks in there um there's also Tommy DeVito still around great oh Tommy DeVito's still out there I have noticed that Tommy DeVito never gets mentioned on hard knocks when over there talking about quarterback I mean I guess that's obvious but like they went through the whole backup thing they never mentioned DeVito they really wanted tie rod back that didn't happen they made sure to get lock in the building because they thought

he was great Daniel Jones it was interesting on the latest hard knocks you know had a conversation with Joe Shane. They didn't show it, but Shane talked about it of, you know, when they were going into trying to get these quarterbacks. And they did try to trade up for Danos. They did try to trade up with the Patriots for Drake May. So they were down with either one. It didn't happen. Patriots didn't want to do it. Obviously that they told Janet Jones ahead of time. And then they said, look, if we don't get court, if you see Drake May around the building, don't get freaked out. And now they didn't get one and they got a weapon. And I think Daniel Joe's, I don't think, know if he's underrated at this point, but I think people

forget who he is. His first two years in league, I always said, like, he's way closer to league average than people give him credit for. I would put him just below the Dalton line. So that's not like what you want out of a top 10 quarterback, but he also isn't a disaster. He's just been in a bad situation. I think if you put him in a good situation, he'd be like a mid-level bridge quarterback. And so for a couple years, he was underrated. Then he had that one year and I was like he's really not this good guys like he's still that same guy but the situation's better the giants overpay him and now he's back to like underrated again because he's not the 30 second best quarterback in the league to me I think if he got in good situations he could

have a teddy bridgewater type of career I think right because we get the thing that leaps off the page right was those 17 turnovers right in eight games he had like a really really bad stretch um he's not that I don't think anybody is is really that guy that's going to give the ball up that much. But then he went into super safe mode where the risks weren't really... There's got to be some in between where he has to be willing to turn the ball over,

but also trying to make some explosive plays. He used to. Those first two years, actually, he is a pretty thrower of the football. That's why he got drafted that high. Like, he can do that. So I'm just hoping Brian Debel can get that going, make them more watchable.

One big contract that happened on Tuesday was Christian Dara saw getting a four-year $113 million contract, ton of guaranteed money on that. Nice development story for him two years out from being a free agent. So again, these are teams that are being smart and getting

ahead of the market and he got paid and it's a reminder. Tackle, maybe more than any other position seems to take some time because his rookie year, everyone got on the Vikings of like, oh, I don't know about this guy, this guy's a reach and then shows up second year and he's awesome. And you're just asking a lot for rookies to start,

especially a tackle. And now they've got, I think Darisol's 25. I think he just turned 25 too. And so you get that youth value at this position for a long time. I think it's a great deal. Sign more guys early.

Like I was talking about with Tua, if you can foresee them being a part of your team, then why not? $77 million guaranteed $43.7 at signing. I bet that's going to look great in two years when the actual extension even starts. And yeah, I think Vikings are in better shape. I made a

I got Vikings Twitter annoyed on Wednesday pointing out that Michael Pratt Tulane getting more first team reps right now than J.J. McCarthy because I was begging this drum during draft season. I was like, is J.C. McCarthy and Michael Pratt that

different? I like look at Michael Pratt and I see a guy who's going to be in the NFL for 12 years. That was just like taking a little shot. He's getting first team reps only because Jordan Love's not there, but I think he's going to be a good backup. But I actually am kind of high on the Vikings. I don't know what they're over under is, but I bet I would take the over. I think it's a good team around that quarterback position.

I think the defense has a lot of potential. I trust them more than the bears, but that way. We talked a lot about the bears on our last show with Stacey Dales, but I think the Vikings have a chance to be 500 this year. Yeah, especially considering what they were able to accomplish last year with the, with the situation after Kirk went down. I didn't think about it like that, but yeah, why wouldn't we believe? Two great tackles, like literally one of the best tackle,

combinations in the league. That's hard to find. Two great receivers, an absolutely premium position. Maybe the best one, two, in the league has a chance to be. I think Jordan Addison is that good. And more defensive talent than you realize and good coaching. They have a lot that you want. It wouldn't surprise me if they're in the playoff mix. All right, we'll fly through the rest of these news items. Sad that Michael Gallup retired. Sad for me. I hope he is happy with it. He had signed with the Raiders this off season. He had struggled with injuries. We had him on the around the NFL podcast before last season, and you know, you was trying to come back from that ACL, and you never fully got back to what he was early in his career. Yeah, and so explosive, right? And a part of just a really

good run on Cowboys' offense. And, you know, it's just a sign of what can happen to a guy when things go wrong physically. It's not like he did something wrong. It's just an accumulation of things that don't go right. I mean, it's so obvious, but it's just such a brutal sport. I thought about it with when Ryan Ramchek retired to that 2017 Saints class, for instance, like, it just it's maybe the best rookie draft class of the last 20 years. And yet, after five or six years, it's tough to stay at that level. Now, Ramchek can't play right now because of injuries, but even Alvin Kamara, like time comes for everyone. Time is a thief. Randy Gregory doesn't, didn't report for mini camp. I mean, training camp. He also didn't report for mini camp. They don't seem to

know why. He also sued the NFL this offseason and the Broncos, so there's a lot going on there. Not sure if he's going to show up with the bucks or not. Cooper DeGine is out three weeks to start training camp. He's on the NFI list. He suffered a hamstring injury in offseason

training that we didn't know about, so could take him a little while to get going, but they're pretty deep in the secondary. And then I'd like that I saw that Kyle Shanahan offered Bill Belichick an open-ended job. Did you see this? Yeah. Just job. He was just like, whatever you would want to do, do you want to join my staff?

I like the idea of Belichick in the media, but that would have been cool, too. Yeah, it would. Maybe. Maybe it wouldn't have had any material effect on my life. That's another problem. It could have gone horribly wrong, or, you know, they might win the Super Bowl anyway. So it's one of those things. But Belichick didn't want to do it.

But I think that shows, I do like Kyle Shanan has the confidence of like, yeah, I'll put Bill Belichick in my room. I'm not going to be, like, threatened by him. I just know he's going to make me better, us better. Belichick's probably thinking, like, this guy's going to steal stuff from me. But Shanahan's probably thinking he'll do the vice versa. Anyway, he wouldn't mind. It's a risk worth taking for Kyle.

No one was Mike Shanahan's bigger public supporter as like one of the greatest coaches of all time than Bill Belichick, so that those ties run deep. Finally, we got a trend here to start training camp. A couple puke stories. James and Williams puked. training camp today and then return the next play and scored a touchdown? I mean, if that's not football is back, then I don't know what is. Mackay Beckton also peaked four times supposedly at Eagles practice.

Hot there in Philly, early in camp. That's not great. No, it's not great. And throughout my track career, you find out that there are certain people who just simply physical exertion equals regurgitation. like that's that's a part of their and some people come to it a whole lot easier and then i don't i don't even always think it it has a lot to do with people's stomachs or food some people do it before games yeah they just are so nervous some people are just giving it back and i'm like whoa like are you okay

and then they're just they're running a race a puker no i i am not i have to have consumed a pathogen um there i will not name the establishment but i i received a cassidia burger from this one a well-known national chain. And it, yeah. I'm not a huge one, but in college, you know, they don't close the bars in New Orleans. You show up there 18. It was 18 to get into bars when I was going there.

Like, it's asking a lot to make it through the night. And these nights last a while, night after night. And so I was very much like a boot and rally guy where I would, I would pull the trigger at 2 p.m. as like a almost as a matter, of course, not every night, but quite often. and then keep going. Otherwise, I would just be on the floor or, you know, I'd... That's the, I mean...

You always felt better. I did. I also was a strawberry... That's the love of the game. Yeah, it was stupid, obviously, but this is what you do when you're... That's what I did when I was in college. I also puked, the worst experience I ever had. Why are we talking so much about this, but was as a strawberry truck driver up and down the East Coast.

I've mentioned I had this job before. Of course. After a freshman year of college. and yeah, you learn fast. You know, it's free strawberries. You just got them there all day. You're in a truck for 12, 14 hours. Like, there's a limit to how many strawberries you can eat.

Don't just, like, eat it all day. That was a one-time mistake. Jameson Williams maybe is also a guy who just eats poor food. Randy, I don't know if you have this to fly up. But he has posted on Instagram over the years some, like, very revolting food. Is this exactly? Randy, can you step in?

Yeah, that is a McFlurry on top of a cheeseburger. That's on top of a double quarter pounder. Correct. Game recognized game. I understand not wanting to admit that you knew Randy, but I mean, we all not. What, you've done that before? No, it's just, you know, the two pickles, you can see the two patties there. It's clearly a double quarter pounder.

Or a double one of the two. So I don't know if Jameson Williams, yeah, I don't know if. that had anything to do with what happened. What is this? This is another Instagram from James and Way. From what I can infer, it appears to be nacho cheese ground beef on top of hot Cheetos.

So this, I mean, this looks like ballpark food though. Like something you'd get like a high school football game. Oh, yeah. I got to the front of a line at Dodger Stadium this week. And I thought they had some like carneasada tacos, but then it was just the carneasada on top of the cheesy nachos. And I got to the front after waiting a while I was just turned right around. I was like, I can't get that. There's no way that's happening.

Jameson Williams, though, confirmed dog. Put them up your fantasy boards now. And speaking of fantasy, let's talk to Rotopat. You're not done with me today, Patrick. We're going to come back after I talked to Pat Dardy, and we're going to wrap up the show with some dumb stuff. But before that, yeah, I'm excited about this fantasy season. I'm diving more into it.

Some post-type sleepers, some guys. Not past their prime, maybe not getting as much shine as they used to. After this. Back on NFL Daily, one of my favorite fantasy minds in the game. We're not waiting until late August this year to talk fantasy. We're doing it in July. We're going to sprinkle in fantasy segments each week as you get ready for your draft.

and no other man I'd rather start with than Pat Dardy, who I've tried to take credit for hiring over at Road to World multiple times. And then Evan Silver reminds me, he's like, I hired him, man. I'm the one that hired Pat. I was like, I supported him. I think his tweets are funny. Pat Dardy, what's up? Evan hired me.

You supported me. You hired me in spirit, though, because no one would have been allowed to be hired without your approval. There you go. So you still had, you both hired me. This might be early for you in fantasy. You're very late, though. We've been talking about it since really, probably before the championship game weekends.

Like we don't even wait for the Super Bowl to be over. When there's only four teams left, then you kind of start talking about the following year. Yeah, the game has changed. Not to do it back when I was doing it. But yeah, this was the ramp up period. Certainly we paid attention. We did news at OTAs, but there was just not the competitive social media tweeting of like the entire industry already doing ADP and best ball in like April. Everything is different.

That's why I need someone like you to sort it out. we're going to do an exercise. Actually, we used to do back at Rotow World, which I think is very useful, which are called post-type all-stars. And post-type all-stars to define it for the listener. They at one point were built up. Their ADP, their average draft position was probably pretty high. It didn't work out for whatever reason. And now it's lower. And it's part of the two things I think are the most important in fantasy football. If you don't want to overcomplicate it, It's like, number one, take good players that are talented and great at football. Like, that's very important.

And then number two, playing the game is just buy low and sell high. Like, don't take Travis Kelsey in the one season of his career where he's in the first round. Take him after an off year. And hopefully we're going to go through all these positions and get a lot of guys out there. But these are the types of guys I would be targeting in draft without even necessarily being huge fans of them. Just because their value is low and it's lower than it was in the past. even if they're still in a good situation. So I'm going to start out with wide receivers.

I think that's where I had the most people. I'm going to go T. Higgins as my first one. And a lot of times this is going to be like a young guy who actually hasn't done that much, and T. Higgins actually has done a lot. But I just couldn't help noticing. I looked at Fantasy Pro's average draft position this year, last year, PPR.

He was the 14th wide receiver last year. He's the 30th wide receiver this year. There's literally no difference in his situation other than he had a bad year last year and couldn't quite stay healthy. But he's the same guy, the same opportunity, and he's getting taken four rounds later. And we've already seen him be great. So to me, he is kind of a perfect post-hyposter.

Well, yeah, there's no difference in his situation except for Tyler Boyd is gone. And there's target competition. And Joe Mixon has gone, who is one of those highly targeted running backs in the entire NFL. And really the only thing that is different with T. Higgins' situation is that he was always slightly overdrafted. always taken it was like a wide receiver 11 or 12 before and he's the classic guy where he didn't quite return ADP quote unquote a few years in a row so instead of just like putting him where he really should be like in the probably the wide receiver 15 or 16 range everyone just

now overcorrects of course and he's the wide receiver 29 or 30 so I totally the only thing is different are like positives for him it's the classic contract year narrative and they really need him it's not a super deep skill it's very top heavy some superstars the top, but it's not like the deepest skill core or anything like that. So they really need him. And yeah, he was someone I almost put on my list. I did not. So I'm glad you didn't. And yeah, I think this is, sometimes it's good. You guys have been in the fantasy minds all season, all off season, digging that coal or whatever it is that you do. And I haven't looked at average apposition until yesterday. And then sometimes these names just like stand out as like common sense.

Why is that dude so low? You give me one that you like. It's not the coal mines. We're sand. minds by the Silica is that what it's called yeah nothing is glamorous as Cole in the

fantasy minds but this first one could be stretching the definition a bit but I'm going to go with George Pickens

who is not like he's like underhyped but kind of like T. Higgins he was overhyped the past two years a little bit

maybe still only barely two really strong seasons to begin his NFL career but it's people they don't want to touch the Steelers

offense because Russell Wilson is toxic Arthur Smith is maybe the most toxic fantasy figure in the history of the game. And people, it's his huge finish last year. So the best stretch of George Pickens' career came when people kind of weren't paying attention to him. They'd already kind of written him off. And they switched to Mason Rudolph of all people.

Sparks like the best three-game stretch of his career. Like even marginally improved quarterback play really got George Pickens exploding down the stretch. There's just zero target competition. He seems like a good fit with a Russell Wilson. moon balls to me? Unless Russ is totally done, which is... No, you know, the one thing Russ can absolutely still do at an elite level is throw a sexy deep ball. That's what our original producer, TD, used to say in the back, in the day, like, he throws a sexy deep ball. If he's protected, he can still do that. I don't know if he

can do that much else. Justin Fields can throw a nice deep ball, too. Pickens' is wide receiver 27, and their wide receiver room is a borderline disaster. I've heard all offseason. Like, Oh, yeah, the Steelers. They're going to add a big name before the season. Like, who is trading their receivers to the Steelers? It's all pickings. I love that. I'm going to go, man, I have so many receivers.

Brandon Ayuk would retire if he were trained to the Steelers, by the way. So if they actually got the big name, he would just retire. I don't know, man. He's been putting out, like, Instagrams where he put up the Washington, you know, play calls and stuff. Like he was, like, looking at their coaches film from their internal. That was a problem. So he was down with the commanders,

but he also was down with the Steelers because he mentioned that. That means his agent was putting a bird in his ears. Like, these are the teams that will pay you that money, but I don't think they're going to give up the first round pick. He is posting cryptic trade demands so often that I don't even have Instagram anymore, and they still just show up on my phone every morning. Brandon, I, you, cryptic trade request from Instagram stories.

Okay. I'm going to go with Stefan Diggs. I wanted to be a little spicy here. Again, I just looked at wide receivers who fell in ADP from this year to last year. And he was fourth last year. He's 23rd this year. Everyone's going to be worried about the target share there. I don't care.

He's good. He was still getting open. It's the classic T.O. First year in Dallas or Philadelphia honeymoon year. And 23rd to me is too low for a guy that talented. I don't think it'll be top 10 necessarily again. But I think people over worry about the fact that there's. other good receivers there. He's still going to get plenty.

You can nitpick with all three of the lead Texans receivers, but you should do at the least, probably with the superstar, like you said. And it is, there's a lot of sort of- I love Nico Collins, but he's wide receiver 11. And to me, they're about the same in terms of fantasy value. And Nico Collins, that just seems like buying at his absolute peak. I mean, a pretty rare third-year break-out. He's clearly very good. The Texans front office agrees, they've paid him $72 million. But you'll get kind of a one-year wonder so far in Nico Collins. Tank Dell we love, but I really dislike when guys as a rookie kind of live up to their negative pre-draft billing. So Tank Dell lived up to his positive

pre-draft billing. An explosive play guy can make plays all over the field, you know, but he's undersized and small. He could get hurt. And then to suffer like a really serious orthopedic injury, even though it was very questionable usage, I think it's still a concern for Tank Dell. Steph Diggs is just like, was this a protest season or was this decline? And I am more inclined to believe it was a protest season. And for whatever reason, he no longer liked playing with the second best quarterback on the planet. And you can just see it. I've heard the reports out of Texans camp that Paul Gallant, who's on the radio there, was like, I've never seen anyone practice harder than Stefan Diggs. And it's like, it's just, it's like, his press conferences

are just, he loves the world. He's talking positively about Josh Allen. It's just, it's just all there. He's playing for a contract. And I, I will not stand for any Nico. Collins, Slander. I love Nico Collins. So I will not call him a one-year wonder, but it doesn't matter to me. That doesn't take away from Diggs. And they know there is no world where he is going to be happy being a second receiver. And there's no world where his talent would make him one. Give me another wide receiver, Pat.

What if he is a second receiver, by the way, and then just immediately protests. But the second one, I don't know if this one counts you. I think it does count. Christian Watson. Yes, that actually is a perfect one. I don't believe in it. I looked at him, but he is. is a tailor-made post-type all-star.

I'm just not with it because I think that Dantavian Wix is better. I shot you down before you even made your point, Pat. You did. There's, yeah, there's a lot. This is kind of like a total battle royale receiver core where there is like a genuine like hand-to-hand combat for the targets. But Christian Watson, he's never not been productive

when he plays. The problem is he just doesn't play very often. He quite literally went to the lab to get his hamstring issues figured out. Like we're big end of the lab narrative here at Rotorold where he went and was studied like a science experiment and they figured out like the strength and balance that was making him suffer hamstring injuries every other week. And even with the battle royale and uncertain target situation, this seems like there's, you talked about the two main tenants in fantasy. Are they good? Are they a value?

It just seems like there's too much value to be had. Okay. The guy with his track record is the wide receiver 41. So I do love Christian Watson as a post type guy. Okay. Wide receiver 41 it's fine. My issue is just, and I don't think, Dante B. Wicks does not fit this exercise. He's just a straight sleeper or whatever you want to call him. What I see is he's wide receiver 58, and he would be my pick to be their leader in wide receiver yardage. And I like Jaden Reed and Dobbs enough that I think Watson's got a specific

skill set. He might be a good best ball guy. Best ball's not my jam, but he'll have like four big time games, and otherwise he's just a deep guy. One guy, and again, I don't know, if he i'm going to give you actually a bunch of names because i want to get through the receivers i want you to pick who you want to talk about but i think these all could make sense terry mccloren i've been wrong about year after year but he's so talented to be the 31st fantasy wide receiver that i just don't care about this to treat jerry judy i i don't know if i'd actually want to do it but he's 59th right now so that's just a flyer a post hype flyer the what i believe the most

Cooper Cup doesn't work for me. I thought he would be way lower when I looked at this list. And he's still wide receiver 18. I was like, no, man, the way he looked last year, sorry. If he was in the 20s or 30s, maybe. Deonti Johnson is the guy, along with McLaren here, is probably my favorite. Wide receiver 41, the only guy on that team gets open. They're going to be better just because you can't be worse.

So to me, he has a nice little post-type all-star. But pick which one out of those you like the best. McLaren, Deontay Johnson, or Judy. Well, Judy was the classic. He was the last guy I threw on my list, but didn't put any notes for just because he's such an obvious post type guy, but no one really wants to make the case for him. So I'm just not going to make the case for him. And it is Deontay Johnson.

I mean, like, fantasy, we focus so much on, like, workload and who is getting touches. And he got 140 targets three straight years before he had his protest season last year. Everything about the Panthers offense this year is about salvaging Bryce Young's career, getting him layup looks. there's really no better layup receiver in the entire NFL than Deontay Johnson. Like you said, his ADP is just absolutely cratered. He's been up beyond like- It makes no sense.

Like we've seen how good he is. We've seen him produce. People are scared because he's on the Panthers. But Bryce Young had like a hundred quarterback rating. Patrick Claibund mentioned this earlier. You know, when he's thrown at Adam Thielen, the only decent receiver on a team. And to me, Deonti Johnson is just a younger, better version of Adam Thieland. Like, you're not going to get crazy explosive plays.

But he's very good. with body cat like catching in traffic and he's going to get open i've been drafting him almost every team this year and judy was on my list the other guys on my list with two other pretty obvious ones well you could argue how obvious they are one was jameson williams uh i love how dan campbell basically dan campbell begins every press conference like a james and williams hype session right now i feel like called him a man on a mission uh he just he just will not quit talking about james and williams who had probably the best game of his career and the biggest game of his career in the NFC championship game

where he made some game-changing plays. He's finally healthy. He maybe seems like he's finally with the program. I promised you last week I would bring up a gross one. Okay, yes. And it's Quentin Johnston. Oh. Does he count?

Because he might not even count. Yeah, that counts. You got to stand for it, but he might not count because he was never hyped to begin with. No, no, no, no. He was at least enough that people were drafting him. And before he had a bad camp, people were, yeah, he's definitely that. But, yeah, as two of the only, you know, grown men that still use the word gross, which I think went out with wicked back in the 90s, although you're not nearly as old as I am, despite your four children. I mean, shout out to Rotopac, getting it done here. I take my order from the Pope, right?

When did it became okay to make fun of parents for having, like, more than two children? Jim Gaffigan has a whole, whole, like, bit about this, which is great that people just treat him like a freak. like once you get to three or four, it's like, oh, what's wrong with you? Like, meanwhile, it's like everyone's got like seven dogs and no one, no one gives them any crap. I don't know when it became okay, but I feel it acutely. Because when I tell people, we have four kids, I seriously self-consciously going, I don't know, man, we're like, we're not, I'm like, it's not a religious thing. We're not like, weird freaks.

We just like kids and we keep having kids. And I do feel very self-conscious about it. Kids are great. They make you happier. And then you're like, wow, this relationship is cooler. than any other relationship I've ever had in my life, maybe. Why not have more of them? Back in the date, 4.5 was like ADP for kids.

So you're just old school. My family's only half done, too. No, that is not true at all. I don't think that's right, people making you feel about it. All right, let's do running backs and quarterbacks. I'm going to start with one. And this is where I think when you're drafting fantasy, sometimes you've got to be emotional,

not just make it all about your feelings. Just look at the facts. Tony Pollard was RB8 last year, a top 15 overall pick when he was coming off a devastating injury. He is now much healthier, should be more explosive, he is now running back 29. I get that he's not going to have the same workload. In fact, I think Taj Spears is incredible and is also a good value, but both things can be true. 29 for Pollard, I think Callahan as their offensive line coach, even though I didn't love what I saw last year, it's just if you just look at the facts, you look at his age, you look that he's healthier,

now you look where he is and what his talent is. You could make the argument that it's a very good thing. He isn't going to have the same workload because his greatest success, both as a real life player and as a fantasy threat, came as like the 1B, the change of pace guy who got put on the field. It was always like a third down where you can make an explosive play

or in the red zone where you can score a touchdown. Maybe it's a good thing that the workload comes out. I think it is. They're going to run a ton and they'll each get 200 touches in a perfect world. To sue super convenient narratives, like you said, He's actually healthy, and he got paid. When someone gets paid, they want to use you.

So he got paid. Give me one. Give me a running back. Kenneth Walker? Like, I know it's Ryan Grubb. I thought about him. It's Ryan Grub, Mr. Passing Game from the University of Washington. But early in the offseason, Mike McDonald did the classic talking up fire and brimstone,

talking about the running game. He said he wanted to win the time of possession battle. Like, I feel like I hadn't heard that one in a while, especially from like a progressive-minded coach. Like Mike McDonald, this was like April. So maybe it's like the Ryan grubification of the offense as intensified. They will look more like the UW offense and not like the Ravens offense. He's just such a rugged runner.

He's the classic guy. Like if you want to limit Gino's attempts, if you do want to win the time of possession battle, Kenneth Walker gives you those kind of carries. He was not efficient last year, but things were just going south kind of in general. He was still a tackle breaking force. And he's like to RB 16, 17.

I think he could easily still get into that 10 to 12 range. I think that's good. and Grubb had awesome offensive lines in Washington. Like they always were coached a well. And to me, he's a classic, even though I like him, he's probably better in fantasy than reality. Oh, yeah. He's going to hit those 50-yard touchdowns,

and he's going to have those negative two runs, but those negative two runs don't really matter that much in fantasy. Kind of the opposite of him, who I think's underrated, is Remandre Stevenson. Last year, RB 11. This one is an astromatic, but 30th overall. This year, RB 18, 58th. Just one of the few guys who is going to have the backfield to him.

They're not going to overuse him like a couple years ago, but it's great on passing down is clearly the best running back in that room. They paid him like a top five running back. And I think that shows what they want to do for him. So again, it's just looking at value. Like my son got carried away and took him in the second round last year, I think, or first round. I think it was second round. It's like, that was too much. But now he'll be fourth or fifth and give you that second round value.

The only thing with Remindery Stevenson that I fear is Bill Belichick clearly determined that he caught too many passes and scaled back that role at. year. And then they did great. He's a great receiver. So I don't buy that. I don't buy that. I just feel like it's back-to-back regime. I get it, but Jacoby maybe not Drake me as much, but Jacoby loves dumping it down. So you're not moving me off this one. Give me one.

Do I have to give you another running back? I didn't really even want to say Giovante Williams, but I am just because I'm not drafting him. I will say that. So one of the reasons he's a post-hype is because I'm not hyping him. But there's just so much talk about the Broncos running back competition. And he still has the strongest case by

far to be the number one guy and he's kind of like Tony Pollard will he'll be another year removed from his injury he didn't look right to me no he hasn't looked totally right in a minute I just go hey the Denver situation seems to be one of those in fantasies just like you can you can just be like no no yeah I actually don't think it's never gonna help like maybe a waiver wire pickup that like hits for three weeks that's what I would want out of a Denver backfield I don't think it's hyperbole I don't think I've drafted a single bronco I haven't done enough best ball drafts to do that because you eventually draft everyone at some point, but I haven't drafted at a single Bronco. Two spicy ones here. Very late. One I really believe in one that's just funny to me

is J.K. Dobbins, RB 49 right now. I just think he's, I just think it's Jim Harbaugh in the situation, and it might be something where he just helps you late in the season, but he is fully healthy. I know he's coming off at Torn Achilles. He's shown that level of talent. That's worth a shot. And then if you just want to get freaky in a deep draft. I mean, I couldn't have been more wrong about Damian Pierce, but if you go from the first round to RB 61 and you're not totally confident in the guys in front of Damien Pierce staying healthy, I would take them in the 17th round. I mean, give me a little RB 61, Damian Pierce. Another one, I would get freaky. I don't believe in this player at all either, but Alexander Madison is the RB 62. Okay, see, but we want players we believe

it. I've seen Damien Pierce excel at the NFL level. That's the thing I think people miss in fantasy. If you've seen it once, it can happen again, even if they're coming off a bad year. Let's wrap quickly with quarterbacks. Give me your favorite quarterback pick. Does Kyler Murray count? Yes, he was one of my two. He counts. His ADP hasn't really fallen as much as I would have expected. He's like QB7, an underdog. He has QB7, an underdog. He has QB7, an underdog. The general public will be fading him. he's just disappointed three too many times in fantasy. Another guy, he's never been in a better organized offense.

He's another year healthier. He's going to run more. He finally has another weapon, a signature weapon, and Marvin Harrison Jr. I just really like the way the Cardinals are coached and organized. It could be famous last words. It seems like to be his best setup he's had in a really long time and that the dual threat will return a year removed from the injury.

To me that quarterback, like if you're not getting taken in the first four rounds or so, four or five rounds, it's almost like, I don't care if I have to take, like, if Kyler's going to be one of my two quarterbacks, I'm fine taking him around early because he has that top three or four upside and you're not going to have to use one of your first five or six picks on him. And so I love that. I think he'll run. I think he's going to pass better than he ever has. Justin Herbert was getting taken sixth at this time a year ago. He's now getting taken 14th. I think just people are swallowing the whole like Jim Harbaugh likes to run the ball thing.

a little too much. And this is where I'm just betting on talent. If Justin Herbert's my QB2, like, get out of here. Like a Murray Herbert combo, if you wanted, or even just one of them and pick someone at the end and just go cheap at quarterback, he'll find a way to get yards. I think they'll run them a little bit more maybe in the red zone than they have before. So I'm all about it. I believe in Harba. I believe in Herbert, too. And it's become a mantra and fantasy. Temps are a quarterback stat. We are going to find that out with the Chargers this year, because we are getting the ultimate experiment. They're not going to take the ball out of his hand.

I think their defense might be pretty bad. Like, he's the best player on the team. Jim Harbaugh has, like, posters of him on the wall that he goes to sleep to. So he's going to hand it off to Gus Edwards and J.K. Dobbins 50 times a game? I don't think so. So now you don't like J.K. Dobbins, huh? No, I like him. I like him at.

But hey, you didn't say neither one of us had the courage to say Aaron Rogers. Is he a post-type guy? No. The lead balloon falls. to end the show. Where is he? He's outside the top 20 at quarterback. Quarterback's crazy, man,

because Caleb Williams, Stafford, Rogers are all outside the top 15. It's just another reason not to take any quarterback early. Although, you know, I don't know. Do what you want. I won't take Aaron Rogers. But, I mean, we've seen vengeful Aaron Rogers before, and it's his best supporting cast in a long time.

he's a fun QB2 that's a good one no I agree that actually fits my profile a player that's shown himself he's like literally one of the best players of all time he is and you're buying low as hell Patrick Dardy one of the best

Roto writers of all time still using the word Roto World how about that I still think it's corny Roto Pab but people remember it so you gotta use it and if I'm one of the you are the best at what you do I'm so glad you've got the show, and I'm so glad you had me on. Yeah, I want to have you on regularly.

Like I said, we're going to do fantasy, you know, regularly. We've got to get the big dog, the big fish. Evan Selva at some point. We have Mike Florio from NFL and Marcus Grant coming up in the studio in a couple weeks. I think we're going to do a mock draft. But just sprinkling that in, especially in draft season. Love you, buddy.

Thanks, Pat. Love you too. Promise to yell at Evan. You guys need to yell at each other. Back on NFL Daily with Patrick Claibon before he hits the road although he's going to be on this show

from the road Monday morning show he'll be in Cincinnati excited for that but in the meantime he's going to hit some teams before that though let's talk about some dumb stuff We just want to wrap up the show with dumb stuff. And you were talking about Patrick, like, who's going to have the quote of training camp?

Would you say, you thought Sean Payton had it last year? Yeah. And it's a little, it kind of counts, right? Because it's in an interview. You know, he's in his office. He's comfortable. And then I thought, like, who is in position? When he dog Nathaniel Hackett.

Yeah. Yes. When he provided maybe his analysis of the 22 Denver Broncos, I want somebody to do that again this year but I'm worried that there was so much fervor that everybody's going to be buttoned up in P's and Q's in respect mode that we're not going to get any fun.

Well, Sean Payton's to be a good candidate to make it happen. I think Jim Harbaugh, we already heard on this show, is a good candidate because older people, not going to say guys, but older people, they don't care. They know what does it really matter? I'm looking forward to being,

even more of that person that just doesn't care and they'll say whatever. And Sean Payton, he's won his Super Bowl. He's made the money. He doesn't care. I really actually found this interaction at Broncos camp very funny. It was his, Sean Payton's first press conference of training camp. Coach Cecil Ami, Denver Sports, I'm going to piggyback on the Greg Dilsage thing. How far behind is he based on Lucas Kroll was maybe your best player this entire off season?

And I hope you had a good summer, by the way. I do too. But did you say Lucas was our best player, best tight end? It's arguable. He was among the best. No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. All right.

I'll answer your question, but you're not close. Lucas Crowell. I mean, if you're wondering who Lucas Crowell is, he's a third year player who attended three colleges, has played for the Saints. And the Broncos has eight career catches, ended up at Pittsburgh. And, like, he's taking shots there from his coach. But I found that very funny that he was not going to take this weird

hot take from someone who was at too many OTAs and just was impressed by Lucas Krull. No, he's not. I do want to hear Lucas's reaction to that interaction because it's an ears-burning type situation. It's like, whoa, Lucas Crowell mentioned. And so like his phone's probably blowing up

and now he's got to click on that quote. And like I want to see him watching this. Shout out to Cecil Lammy, though, who asked that question. old school fantasy guy online at football guys when I was starting at 2003 and still getting it done

and knows a lot about football so I'm sure he just was really impressed by his offseason workouts but he was shut down eventually Sean Payton actually threw out a couple names of like people that were better than Lucas Krull and he said Patrick Sertan good choice yeah and Quinn Miner so they just gave $80 million to so he

was like there are two players who have had better off seasons than Lucas Krull but that I love that it was unnecessary but it wasn't wasn't going to let that side. Do you have some candidates of whom I also have some good quotage? Well, there was, Brander Bean was reacting to an anonymous GM saying that Josh Allen was overrated. And he said, there's idiots everywhere. And I think it's not spicy because it's not like something that some other team is going to have to answer questions about. But

it is a fun quote that kind of takes me in the direction where I want these guys to be comfortable up there answering questions and not, you know, shying away from having fun. I love that. It reminds me of Tom Emery, my high school tennis coach, who had a vision of this group when we were just in elementary school and it led to a high school championship. But he once told me, I remember I practiced and he was like, Greg, one thing you got to learn, 99% of people you meet in life are fucking idiots. And I was like, whoa. Thanks, coach.

But I got to say that, that, I don't know if 99's high. Yeah, that's a touch. It might have been even 95. I don't remember now, but it's a touch high. But I got to say that quote pops up in my head in a way most words of wisdom at that age have not stuck with me quite as long. I want to hear from Jamar Chase. I like this. He was interviewed as part of the top 100.

We've been rolling out the top 100 at NFL Network and on NFL Plus. My son Walker, I was actually watching it on NFL Plus going player by player. I don't think they got to Jamar Chase yet, but the NFL sent out this clip of them asking who's the best player in the league. And who's the number one player on the top of this kid? On the what? I'm not saying him. I give credit when this dude, but I'm not saying his name.

I don't know who you're talking about it. Yeah, you do. I'm not saying his name, brother. Sorry. Joe Burrow. I'm not saying that guy's name. He's good. He's amazing.

He's good. Not going to lie. I'm salty, though. I'm a little salty. Two years in a row. But I'm putting Burrow first. He said, I'll give credit where it's due. It's like, no, you're literally not giving the credit.

But he is giving the credit. He said he's amazing. He just said he wasn't his name. Well, confuse me because then he throws in Burrow's name a couple of times, but that almost made it worse because he's throwing his guy's name in there right after pointing out that, no,

I'm not saying Patrick Mahomes' name. But I'll say it for him. Mahomes hasn't been their problem, right? Like, not exactly, I guess. I don't know. He's everyone's problem. What do you mean?

He wasn't their problem last year, but just that they're out there winning Super Bowls when the Bengals are not, I think that's the problem. And that he's, you know, maybe the best quarterback of all time through the first seven years of his career.

I wouldn't even say maybe. He's definitely the best quarterback of all time through seven years of his career. It just feels like them being the roadblock. Yes. It doesn't like if Cincinnati, when they have it all together, it hasn't been the Chiefs.

No. But look, he's elevating the homes to like Baba Yaga territory and he's like not even talking about him. He's like, oh, the pencil. And so yeah, I get, I like the energy. And it makes the games fun. It was just dumb. some stuff. Any other, any other options for your quotes before we open the mailbag just quickly.

Dan Campbell walked out. They got a new podium at their media. Oh, yes. And Dan Campbell's a large person. This podium is insane. I am so happy you brought this up. You can see it on the YouTube show. It's crazy. No normal person is is making headway in that thing. I did nothing filled me with more glee today than just seeing Dan. Campbell behind this boat, this yacht of a, of a podium. And I like that there's a, there's a cabinet on the side that's locked. This is part of it.

I want to know what's in that cabinet. It is amazing that podium. It's the opposite of the Bengals podium one year where everyone made fun of how small and dinky their podium was there. There should be a fridge in there. There was always, you know, one of the team staffers, we would go to, you know, Coach Sabin's availability every week in Tuscaloosa.

and Cedric would bring his Coca-Cola classic and put it on the podium with that thing, you've got to have a fridge in there and Coach Campbell could just, he would have to walk around. Again,

go watch this on the YouTube show. He would not be able to reach and open the door. He has to walk around the podium and open it. It's that big. It's amazing. It looks like one of the Tesla trucks

that are just blighting, blighting the highways of Los Angeles. It's a little more aesthetically pleasing than the fiber truck. It is. All right. We're going to take a couple questions before we go

that you guys sent in in comments to the mail box. What is our mail address again, Randy? That would be NFL Daily podcast at gmail.com. Okay, yeah, send us some questions about the show or the upcoming season, and we're going to try to get to them at a future episode, NFL Daily podcast at gmail.com. All right, throw them up, Randy,

before we say goodbye. This is from Faith. I listened to ATN the past three years after my dad sent me an episode, I love the show. So glad there's a sequel after the hiatus. I've enjoyed this show.

Wondering if the podcast segments are going to be new or will some from ATN return my personal favorite in her monologues, Dalton Scale. By the way, Judge Connie was great. Please bring it back. We will definitely be bringing back

Judge Connie. That was a lot of fun. I thought I'd address this because you might have noticed we haven't done the same thing. It doesn't feel right. Yeah. Like, we're here.

It's a different show. those were concept we all came up together, like, and it just doesn't, that, it doesn't feel right to me. So as much as like, I love doing them all and they're out there, it's like, those aren't mine to, to do. That's how I feel. And, or ours, you know what I mean? It just, that was, that was around the NFL's. Those were those shows, Dalton scale is different. That's just in the universe to me. That's bigger than anyone. That's, that's telling the truth about how football... Including Andy.

Because that was even before the... You know, that was just... That was a concept Chris came up. So I think I referenced it in this show. So we will be referencing it. And maybe I'll do some Dalton scale stuff. But that's... No, for the most part, I don't want to do the same stuff.

Yeah. And it's not because of the quality of this stuff. No, it's just... It's gone. It's gone. But, of course, we're... You know, people have asked, and we did say, you know,

we're having the preview show. We're having a recap show. And we'll have picks of some sort and it'll just be, you know, it'll be different. Let's throw up the next one before we get out of here. Don Crean says,

if and when things go south, why should Nick, talking about Nick Seriani, be fired if he didn't pick his own OC and D.C. If how he picked Kellan and Vic, how he owned Kellyn and Vic, owns is aggressive.

Jeffrey Lurie owns Philly accountability. This is just how it works, bro. Like, when you're not in charge, you get blamed sometimes for things that are out of your control. And I think they viewed it like, yeah, we'll keep Nick Seriani and we'll keep it under our parameters. These are the parameters he's going to have to work with. And if you can't make this work, sorry. And the first person that was made aware of those parameters was most likely Nick Siriani. Sure. So he is, you know, you want volunteers, not hostages, and Nick Seriani is completely fine, being the head coach

the Philadelphia Eagles. That's a perfect point to make because Doug Peterson was surprisingly fired, I believe, based on the reporting that came afterwards, after not accepting a similar idea. Exactly. He was just like, what? No.

I won a Super Bowl. No. And Nick Siriani was that close to winning a Super Bowl. But I get it. He has a very talented team. He loves coaching and he's going to try to make this work. It is just a little weird. It's slightly weird

Because coaches usually pick their staff But the Eagles do things a little differently in general And for the most part it's been very effective And if like we talked about Bill earlier If Bill Belichick was willing to probably give a little lenience to his staff preparation and choices Then he'd be the head coach Oh I thought you were going to say

He would be the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles Because they did speak with him How he spoke with him Maybe Who even knows how that conversation went Or how it could go in the future That's something to watch Watch out for NFL Daily.

Appreciate you guys listening. We have Brian Baldinger. Baldy. Excited about this segment, we have cooked up with Baldy. And Mike Garofalo is going to be on the show to wrap up the week on Friday's show as well with some news. So looking forward to that. Looking forward to having you, Patrick, back on on Monday's show.

And until then, yeah. We're out the womb. Just wipe off that gunk and let's go music by John Placenta for Patrick and Randy you'll see you next time

Sal, there's idiots everywhere this is an I-Heart podcast