NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Packers-Lions Week 4 TNF Recap

Episode Date: September 29, 2023

Hero Gregg Rosenthal is joined by SB Nation Football Writer JP Acosta to recap Week 4's Thursday night football clash between NFC North rivals the Green Bay Packers and the Detroit Lions . We break down the Lions dominant performance on both sides of the ball and touch on what went wrong for the Packers.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. 35 yards. Goff. Deep again, wide open, making the grab and taking it in his St. Brown. Second and goal. Love is going to keep it himself.

Touched. Down Green Bay. Here it is again. You heard Eck talking about it. Here's the foul on Walker. But you talk about a late flag? 34 to 20. The Lions own the NFC North.

Detroit takes care of business in Lambo. Their fourth straight win against the Packers. The second straight time, They put a hurt on him on national television. These are new times. And you can tell that a Packers fan, big funk Randy Chavez, put that highlight package together because he included a Packers penalty to finish it that led to the game's ceiling touchdown by David Montgomery, his third of the night.

I'm Greg Rosenthal talking TNF with a new friend of the pod. Very excited to welcome J.P. Acosta. to the show. He does great work over at SB Nation. JP. We got a pretty good one for you for your first time on the Iran, the NFL podcast. Welcome. Thank you for having me. This is a fun one because this is right up my alley. This is a Lions offensive line. Run the Rock. Establish that defensive lines playing great. This is right up my alley. Wow. What? You're like you're a Dan Campbell tough guy. I want to run the ball. How many times did he do it? tonight, 43 times and just dominate the line of scrimmage?

That's your game? That's right. That's right. Football is won and lost on the line of scrimmage, and Dan Campbell made sure to put an emphasis on that going into this game. You're absolutely right, although I'm going to start on the defensive side. And they won it up front there, too. We can go in a lot of directions here, and we will.

We're going to go over this game. It was a lot of fun if you're like me and have been loving this lion's rise. over the last two seasons. But I think we got to start with the first 22 plays that the Packers ran on offense, which got us almost a halftime. Those 22 plays, JP, gained a negative yard. They did not gain a yard in their first 22 plays.

At that point in the game, it was 27 to 3. the game was all but over. The Packers did what they've been doing the last couple weeks made a little interesting in the second half. But tell me from your vantage point what you saw, what they did in that first half defensively

that just made the Packers looked like they didn't even belong on the field with Detroit. It was so interesting. Just for a Packers' offensive line that did not allow a lot of pressure through the first few games the season, just look completely overwhelmed against a Detroit Lions front

that we remember a couple weeks ago did not look that great against the Seattle Seahawks. Like this is a second week out of two weeks that the Lions have looked really good up front. And I think it kind of has to do with the development and the growth of the young guys they have on that side of the ball. We all know about Aidan Hutchinson, the way that he's playing to start this season.

One of the things that I've enjoyed that they're doing is moving him inside. You just basically matchup hunt. Find the best way to get your guys isoed on their weakest links. And that's something that the lines are doing right now. Alie McNeil is playing fantastic football to start the season at defensive tackle. But it's not even those guys. You're getting good play from Benito Jones.

Isaiah Bugs doing really good things in the run game. So basically, you've taken the Packers entire outside zone, boot action. You've negated that because they cannot run the ball. So you're forcing Jordan Love to essentially become a primary drop-back passer, forcing him to make the throws. And then on the back end, you know, those guys are playing really well. I think that Jordan Love sailed a few passes early. It's still very clear that he still needs time to actually like play the games to get more, get his feet wet a little more. But it's really just the domination up front.

But it's been a long time since I've seen the Packers look so overwhelmed up front, especially by a Detroit Lions football team. I couldn't agree more because you're right. Even in this four-game win streak, the Packers' offensive line has mostly been a mainstay. Tonight, they were without Bacteari again. He was placed on injured reserve, actually, since we last taped a podcast. So that means he's going to miss at least a few more games. That's a big letdown for them.

and raises a whole lot of questions about his contract and all this other stuff we don't need to get into. They're also without Elkton Jenkins. And you mentioned it. And this is why I wanted you on. JP goes deep. Check out it. Check him out on X on Twitter.

And he's breaking down a Liam McNeil earlier this week who was coming off a big-time game and he's just throwing out bugs. And I'll throw out, you know, Kaminsky had a nice stop on that two-point conversion. And they're winning their one-on-one matches. Charles Harris had a play. I mean, they, Isaiah,

Bugs wasn't even active a couple weeks ago. So that's the depth that I think Campbell and Brad Holmes when they're putting this team together really wanted. And what's impressed me in this three and one start, and I do want to stay on the defense for now, is they've had injuries. They've had injuries on both sides, but they've especially had injuries on defense. And they've kind of built a roster that can withstand it. And they had one bad week, really, against Seattle, where they got it handed to them for the most part defensively. But other than that, man, this is this is a different defense.

Those guys are tough up front. They're going to make it very tough to run the ball. And they barely even tried with Aaron Jones and A.J. Dillon. And by the time they tried, the game was essentially over. And they've been able to withstand injuries on the back end. And that's impressive. That's team building. And that's depth because they don't really have superstars.

They just have good players. Like Derek Barnes has been flashing to me all season. Like, he's not a guy I ever really paid that much attention to, but he's been a great run stopper. And just at each spot, it's like they have guys that make sense. Exactly. It's more, they're more, they're not individual stars, like you said, but they're much more than the sum. They're basically, they work as a team, you know. I think the team defense up front has been so, played so well.

I noticed against Atlanta. The Atlanta game was really a huge test for them going into this game because both these teams want to run the ball. They want to be physical with you up front. And the Lions basically just lined up and kicked their butts the entire game. It was wild to see this team just essentially go in and be like, yeah, we're just going to line up and you're not going to be able to block us. And like you said, Derek Barnes playing great football. I think Jack Campbell has had really nice moments in the run and pass game. They lined them up on the edge on early downs because, you know, with James Houston out for a long time with an ankle injury.

They lined Jack Campbell down on the edge on early down. So I thought it was kind of interesting. They did it a little bit last week. I think it's kind of due to their lack of depth out on the edge. But I was like, okay, I'll put a little pin in that. You know, maybe it can work. I mean, Jack Campbell was like 6.5, 240. Maybe this will be a thing that they just keep doing.

But they're working with the pieces that they have and they're turning it into a machine up front. It's like what you want out of team building because they stuck with Aaron Glenn, who's always thought to be a really promising defensive coordinator, a guy they really believed in. And the results, because of the roster and because they were putting it together, weren't really there the first couple of years, and you're seeing it to come together. So I love when that happens.

This is year three of their program, and they've pretty much done it. And yeah, it's funny. I actually remember when they call, I remember the call where they call Campbell when he was drafted. They actually asked him, like if he would ever want to lie. line up as, you know, you want to line up on the edge a little bit? You think you can do that? And he said, y'all do whatever. So they're putting into motion.

They get creative. And I guess let's flip it to the Packers' offense. Love, his experience to me is a little bit like the Packers in general this season. Like they are Jordan Love. They're like all or nothing. They're like either falling down 17-0 against the Saints or they're coming back. And this game, you know, they were pretty good in the third quarter of this game. They made it interesting.

There was a moment there where they had a two-point conversion that would have cut it to one score. So they got back into it. Against the Falcons, the Packers were way ahead, and then they blew that lead in the fourth quarter. And that's Jordan loved to be right now. Everything is either like a big-time throw, and you're just like, wow, that is impressive. And when he runs, I think, wow, he's a better runner than I expected. But the other stuff is just like the throws are either. way off or you saw tonight when he's really faced a good front for the first time under

pressure. It was just taking a little too long for the gears to grind and just taking some bad sacks. It was an up and down performance for Jordan Love. I think there was some stuff they kind of did pretty well. I think in the second half, they started to put together some drives. He started to play a little better under pressure. But I think an even larger issue than Jordan love is kind of just, I hate to say the offense in general, but at halftime, A.J. Dillon was third on the team and routes run. That's an issue for this team going forward. You can't have AJ Dillon out there running all these routes. Aaron Jones, the Aaron Jones usage has been weird for the entire season. I know he's been injured, but seven snaps, five routes run at

halftime and one target. That's not going to get it done for the best offensive player on your team. have to find a way to consistently get him involved. I know that the run game wasn't working as much because the offensive line wasn't as good, but you have to find a way to get him involved. You have to find a way to make it a little easier for this young quarterback. Yeah, maybe I'll give Lafleur the benefit of the doubt or with usage because, yeah, Jones was a little in and out in that first week, too, and then he missed a couple of week. And maybe they were just easing him back into the lineup tonight. Christian Watson also returned which was a good sign, didn't get a chance to make many catches,

four targets, two catches, 25 yards. He did have a touchdown on a good play call right at the goal line where he was wide open and had one other play. I tried to keep an eye on him because I'm watching. Do you watch the Prime Vision? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I know you do. You're a dork.

I love it. I mean, I love it. I wish I had that option for every game, but I especially like it on these Thursday nights just as a change-up. so you can watch the route sometimes you lose track of what's going on up front but i was trying to watch watson and to me he he looked good and it's just crazy though you're counting on this guy from where was it north dakota state uh that he's like your true one with the most experience and he's like a second second year player i think dobbs has looked good this year and jane reed made it a

couple plays but i just think this team's going to be better in december offensively than they are right now yeah i think it's going to take a lot of time especially if battyari is indeed done for the season because that's a massive piece that you were hoping like the optimism for the Packers going into the season was okay everybody on the offensive line is going to be healthy and now four games into the season Jenkins is hurt Bottyari's on IR and so those are two immediately out the window so you just have you heard anything on back tiari or something is there is there a is there talk that he might be out for more because this this news happened today and I was surprised to see

So I saw he was on IR, I saw he went under arthroscopic knee surgery, which, I mean, if you want to hold him out for four games after knee surgery, like, I don't know if he's coming back. I really don't. It's the whole Bactiari thing has been very weird. I think he's been adamant about not playing on turf, which, yeah, I understand not wanting to play on turf, but he's also the fourth highest paid offensive tackle in the NFL. So we got to actually have him playing games. He's played one of the first four games of the season. That's not a great number. So it's just, it's just been a very weird, weird time for David Batyari. Post, like, 2020. Okay, I am looking, and see, I missed this. Rap sheet, our guy at NFL Network, Ian Rapport said the latest surgery is probably a precursor for a bigger surgery later.

And there's all sorts of cap implications, and they're going to have to eat. a dead cap hit if he's not on the roster next year no matter what it's unfortunate you hate to see a guy who was on a Hall of Fame trajectory and actually we'll still even have a case for it really have his career cut short but for this year man that that's going to hurt the Packers who until this week hadn't really played a good pass rush and that's why those those numbers including Jordan's love numbers I was kind of looking a little side eye just because they hadn't played a team they played the Saints last week, but I don't think of the Saints as an elite pass rush. I think of them

as a good defense. But this week, you saw it kind of come home to Roos. Let's flip it to the other side. Let's talk about some Ben Johnson. Give me your Ben Johnson take because I thought like most games, he had just a couple plays in this game. I love the overall philosophy, but a couple individual plays in this game where it's just like he won and he got his team points. One of my favorite play calls that they had is the Khalif Raymond reverse, where Jared Eric Gough ends up getting steamrolled by this edge rusher. I think it's Kingsley and Ybarre, but it ends up going for 30 yards because everybody else on the other side of the field and you have Penae Sewell leading out in front of you.

That's what Johnston can do. They have their bread and butter up front with the offensive line. That's going to raise the floor of this offense. I say it a lot about the Eagles offensive line, but the lions are right there as well. That is a game-changing positional group. They can slow a game down if they want. They can completely flip. momentum of a game if they choose to. And they did it tonight. I think the Packers have been

really bad defending the run out of their base personnel this year. And the Lines was like, yeah, we're just going to get big and you're not going to be able to stop us. They dominated in the run game. It was great to see Jonah Jackson play as well as he did. Taylor Decker on one leg still looked really well. And Penae Sewell, I feel like every time they need a big run or they need a big play, you run behind 58, and it works most of the time. But you still see what Ben Johnson can do in terms of coaxing a little more aggression out of Jared Gough. He gets them to kind of play a little bit outside of his shell. It was a lot of quick passing still, but you could see the gears kind of turning for Jared Gough. You're like, okay, I can hit this throw down field if I

want it. He's all, I said on Twitter, he's like the king of the 12-yard dig. And that's what they built the office around they know that that's his comfort that's his bread and butter build it around them yeah i want to get to what you said on johnson in second but while we're on golf look he had a bad interception early uh quickly bounced back had some really nice accurate throws um one of those digs i think it was to leport a nice touch pass down the sideline to reynolds where reynolds made a couple of just fantastic uh catches in this game they're just getting contributions out of everyone. But the one thing I've noticed,

and I know Jared Goff has worked on this, and it's only going to work so much. But you are getting, like, one pretty good second reaction play a week from Jared Goff. And it's like, okay, I see that, Jared Goff, because I didn't even get, you weren't even getting that one, I don't think, in Los Angeles. And he's worked on it where, in one of them,

I'm trying to think which play. Was it the play to a play where he's rolling to Reynolds, where he got it? It's like, you're getting kind of one, Like the play breaks down, and Jared Gough makes a play a week. And I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah, it was a rollout where he's getting pressured, rolls to his left, flips back,

and he throws his damn Leporta. And I was like, all right, man. I'm going to write that down. I'm like, all right. And he was accurate. And, yeah, once in a while, you'll see him check it down a little earlier than you would maybe want. But that is a small price to pay for the way he's playing overall.

not asking him to do much. You mentioned it. I love the way you put that, that they can slow the game down. And then, yeah, I watched that Seahawks Lions game and they can speed it up too when they need to. And that, man, that's a dangerous thing to be as an offense that you can play any type of way depending on what type of game it is, what situation you're in. And I was surprised someone tweeted out. I think it was Pat Dardy at the end of the game. They came into this game 30th and expected pass rate, like in neutral situations, which means they are among the most unheavy teams in the league, which is surprising to me. That's not their profile.

And that's going up because they just ran the ball 43 times. I mean, I'd like to split up the carries a little more evenly just because 32 carries for David Montgomery coming off a couple weeks injured. Like that's not good for his long-term health. And Jemir Gibbs was running well. So I'd like to even that out. But I can't fault them. It was working that they were moving the ball in Montgomery was running well.

Yeah, I think the 32 carries for David Montgomery. Montgomery might stun a lot of people and disappoint a lot of Jamir Gibbs' fantasy owners, but it makes a lot of sense for this game. For this game, Detroit knew that they were going to be the more physical team up front. I hear you, but when they're up by 17 late, just give the last five to Gibbs. You're asking for an injury there, but I hear you. Continue on. Yeah, it felt like late in the game, they were kind of getting Montgomery, like, hey,

we'll throw you a little bit of a bone here. We'll get you over a hundred. But David Montgomery right now is the more physical runner between the tackles. That's where you know you can beat this Packers team. This Packers team for having seven, eight, however many first round picks they have on defense, the spine of that defense is really bad up the middle. And it stuns me because you have guys like Kenny Clark, who is a very, very good player.

You have Lucas Van Ness who's made a lot of really nice moments in the run and past game. Rishon Gary still looks awesome. He looked good tonight. He's looked good all year. This looks fantastic. But for some reason, this team is always bad against the run. And it goes back to, I mean, you got to look at coaching at that point. But the lions know so well, like their bread and butter is built up front.

And they can run every concept in the book. They mixed in outside zone with counter power. They do everything. They throw the literal kitchen sink at you because the offensive line can do everything. This is like just a lion's dream. Like last year on this podcast, we made them the team of the Around the NFL podcast. And I said right afterwards, like right after it ended, it ended on such a high. Big Funk, I know you got the sting back there.

Like, I wanted to run it back. Let's just go a second time around, make them the team of the around the NFL podcast the second year. So we've never done that before. We might have to do it again. And even if we don't, I don't care. I'm going to enjoy the journey. It's fun.

And you're seeing like really smart guys who build the team in a certain way, but also coach the team in a certain way. And guys out there just playing with all sorts of. sorts of energy and yeah ben johnson like that that early touchdown to amon ross st brown they they knew what was coming they knew they were going to burn razul douglas on that play and they did it and uh that is awesome to see one one thing that was a little concerning brian branch left this game had an ankle injury that looked quite serious he was carted off he taped it up returned to the game but then left again uh at the end so hopefully he's okay but otherwise uh luke musgrave had a concussion

game for the Packers. I hated to see that. Sam Leporta, winning that kind of rookie tight end battle, another nice game for him, 56 yards. Talk to me on Leporta before we get out of here, because, man, I was, I was honking. I have a text thread with Danny Kelly over at the ringer that is just about Sam Leporta, because I was so big on Sam Leporta. And like, at this point, I'm texting him saying, like, I'm going to be texting you when he's making his speech in Canton. That's the trajectory he's on right now. With the way that Sam Loporta has, played for the first four weeks. I have never, ever, ever been more convinced that Brian Farrant's and the Iowa offense is literally an offense to everything in football. Now you're not able to get

that guy more involved or get that guy more targets. It's wild to me. What the Lions have done, and it's so cool just, I think before the game, Next Gen Stats tweeted out that most of Sam LaPorte's production has come on in breaking routes. They know where his bread and butter is made after the catch, get the ball in his hands and let them run. And that's really what they're letting them do. You know, they've basically created another underneath intermediate area target for Jared Gough. But this time, you've given him a bigger body, someone who can move after the catch. The play that Gough threw to him over the middle, I think the Packers were in man coverage.

He beats the linebacker, catches the ball, then breaks the linebacker's tackle, runs for another 20 yards. That's what Sam Lipporter can do. And that's what he's shown that he's been able to. to do. It provides not only a safety blanket for Jared Gough underneath, but another level of explosiveness that I really thought the Lions wouldn't be able to have with James and Williams out for the first six games this season, but it just so happens that they have a 250 pound tight in who can also provide some of that. Oh, they need they needed it too, because you just looked with, you know, Reynolds is doing a nice job and Khalif Raymond will pop up for a player too,

but it felt like they needed someone else to throw to. And Laporta has just stepped right into that role and I know Gibbs' fantasy owners are frustrated, but I think his days will come, and the way they're using it, it's hard to really fault him. And even tonight, he picked up two key third downs, one as a receiver, one as a runner, where he's running through that first tackle, too, most of the time.

So, like, his day will come. I'm not worried about him and where they took him. They are loving life. I'm loving having you on, JP. We got to do this again. You're the man staying up late in our, Orlando. What's the Orlando NFL scene like? Who do people even root for in Orlando? So it's a very petri dish thing. I see a lot of Buccaneers fans. Tampa's like an hour,

hour and a half away. So there's a lot of Buccaneers fans. Not a lot of Jacksonville fans considering, but it's very heavy Tampa. Every Tampa game is broadcast locally and then they also get the Jaguars games. but they're very much Tampa fans. And, you know, with UCF being here, it's a whole lot of nights and Buccaneers, which does not bode well for my FAU fandom and the Jacksonville Jaguars. Oh, that's right. You are Mr. FAU. I mean, it's going to be a little bit of a come down, I would think, after the year you've had.

It's been a little bit of a come down, you know. You ride the high of the final four, and next thing you know, Clemson is blasting your favorite team on the ACC network. work it's it's a little rough um but again check out jp he's doing great stuff at sp nation you can check them out on twitter at acosta 32 underscore jp appreciate you appreciate the analysis and appreciate you break in records you got it you got to be the youngest person on the show that we've ever had because you just graduated like two years ago i love i love it i love it like i said thanks again to J.P. That is it for us tonight. A great night. If you're a fan of the Detroit Lions,

uh, great night, uh, really for America in general. We will be back on Sunday with the flagship show. Until then, he'd the call. Hey, everyone, Scott Hansen here, and this is NFL Plus, where you can catch every play all in one place. You get access to live, local, and primetime games on your mobile phone and tablet. That's every in-market game with you on the go. I never knew that was a thing. Oh, yeah? And here's my favorite part.

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And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Fulrio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. This is an IHeart podcast.