NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Pain rankings & biggest mysteries in 2015

Episode Date: July 23, 2015

A room filled with heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler -- react to the latest NFL news including Adrian Peterson's contract extension, RGIII and much more. The guys then discuss Peyton Manning's arm and the other big mysteries heading into training camp (20:15). Lastly, a recap of Dan's "Pain Rankings" column (34:30).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast. Bridges all chasms. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis, and I am joined by a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosethul. What is up, boys?

Hey, Dan. All back together. How? They'll be able to act to. Hey, Dan in a while. Go for it. Yeah. Go for it.

Go for it. uh it's so great to be back a little break clear my head i was got to get out of that la smog get to the beautiful jersey shore it was nice but i come back and i'm ready to roll right right into the podcast studio basically first thing in the morning i love it dan made it very clear during his vacation that he did not want to spend as much as a minute with any of us uh there was at one point a text sent and he just shut that down and said no unsubscribe no more communication see you back at work well now i know because gregg got upset with all of us privately in a very serious manner on his vacation when he's reached out to you know for various management things yeah when i when i when someone

wanted me to help with their expenses while i was on vacation yes i got annoyed and then um and then you know i was all of a sudden wrapped into some podcast discussion and i'm like on the beach reading my book enjoying myself and I was like first I tried to unsubscribe you could pull yourself out of the conversation I still get the text

so then I had to make I had to say guys we did follow directions though you'll know I was not involved in any of that I was feeling your pain I'm not going to tell other people what to do but I just stayed quiet

pain good mention of pain Greg because a little later today Dan Hansis who is me wrote the pain rake wow so on your vacation you learned how to talk in the third person next level div operations the pain rankings wrap up today with the number one

team who mark is familiar with so we'll talk about that a little later nice show nice show we're also going to get into a nice write-up by you guys I've read every single around the NFL piece and listened to all the podcasts so why you're too busy for text exactly the biggest mysteries heading into camp we wrote about that we're going to talk about it I'll throw some mysteries out and uh But before any of that, we're going to, you know, of course, do some news. And before we do that, I'm going to say hi to TD. How are you doing, buddy?

What's going on, guys? Dan, glad to have you back. Oh, thank you. The show. Really? Yeah. I mean, this is basically the first show of the season. We've all been taking vacations for a month.

And now it's like, we're ready. The camp's starting next week. This is the first one. And just, I'm just curious. I didn't, I wasn't, like, plugged in too much. But what contest did DJ win to get on our podcast? Talk to Greg. happen again. Greg, organize that. Hashtag never again. Let's do some news, TD.

Podcasts are great. Radio's boring. All right, gentlemen, let's start with the Minnesota Vikings, Adrian Peterson, of course, with the team after missing last year for obvious situations that we've talked about endlessly. Now, the two sides are in a good place. The team announced Tuesday that Peterson and the Vikings have, quote, mutually agreed to restructure the final three. years of Peterson's contract. The deal is worth $44 million over three years, according to NFL Media Insider. Ian Rappaport, Greg, your takeaway.

My takeaway is that leverage is all about talent. And in the NFL, there's a sliding scale, and if you have enough talent, you can almost do whatever you want to do off the field. You can get suspended, and it's not going to hurt you because he's an all-time great player. In the end, he was gone all of last year, and he got more, money out of the Minnesota Vikings and I have no problem with that either I'm not I'm not arguing that point he's worth the money but it's interesting if he was a backup player he would have been cut immediately instead he gets a raise that's how it works I mean I didn't I never got this idea that

all the nerve of him for asking for more money after last year he sat out he didn't ask to sit out last year no he was made to sit out and but people thought it was crazy when he was asking for more guaranteed money when that first came up people are oh no he's going to get cut or he's going to get traded or whatever and Ian stuck to that reporting way back in March say no he's going to get more money out of them in the end and that's what he got when one reason that the new york jets made dan's pain rankings because when they have a make-up deal it's with mark sanchez after they've courted panning and they hand out way too much money to a subpar player the vikings they paid the best running back in football this works for everyone this is an example of cooler heads prevailing

uh Adrian Peterson could have ended up somewhere else the vikins would have opened up their new stadium without their greatest player ever. And instead, everybody worked out. Everything that happened last year was unpleasant, but now everything is in the rear view, and he can go back to being the best running back in the world. I think the stadium thing was big, because you're selling season tickets.

They think they have a good team this year. Obviously, he's on the team. You don't want to go into next year without Peterson. They're not even giving him more money. They're just guaranteeing, essentially, that he'll be on the team next year. Over under game. Here we go.

1,800 yards, Mark Sessler. 100. Over. Greg. I'll go just that. thunder 12 touchdowns 1800 rushing yards by the way yeah a push 12 he will have over you love the push over monster year yeah i think a big year 16 17 700 they've got more of an air game now i think it's going to be a balanced offense i like teddy bridge order a lot but if you're

not running that offense through ap you're overthinking by the way under could be 1790 yards that's not a bad season well yeah when you're the you're taking the game and destroying it there by saying that i do i do worry there's There's a lot of team around the NFL buzz with the Vikings. And I do really want them to be good. I want to root for them, but everyone's going to be picking them as a train. It's a two-man race right now. The Cardinals and Vikings.

But the good thing about this race is always some surprises. Moving on. So Adrian Peterson is staying in Minnesota for the foreseeable future. Mike Tomlin not going anywhere. He agrees with the Steelers on a contract extension. Of course, Tomlin has been the head coach here since 2007. A ton of success, including 82 and 14. 46 record in the regular season and a winning record 5 and 4 in playoff games and a Super Bowl in me, right?

Bussie looks cool. If you're watching us on NFL now, you can see just, you know, he cuts a striking figure with the sunglasses. He's just a guy you want to play for. Until AT NFL podcast history here, the first Matt Money Smith drop we ever had was I'll follow Mike. The AT NFL podcast will follow Mike Tomlin anywhere. He's the cool coach. He's like cool dad, but NFL coaches where you could tell. tell all the guys on the team kind of look up to him.

And he's probably a fun guy to hang out with the bar. And he does cool stuff. Even on the sideline, even the Thanksgiving thing with sticking his leg out, I like my coach getting a little saucy. And it's, you know, we talked last show that, oh, it would Tomlin be in trouble if they had a season where they went off the rails. And they have had some up and down seasons with Tomlin. But the Steelers talk about not panicking.

They've had three coaches since 69. The Browns have had seven since 99. Steelers stick with their coaches and they let those teams grow. Break that down. Steelers good, Brown's bad. I'm just saying solid teams that stick with the plan and those that blow up the operation over and over.

I mean, this is a very significant extension. 2018, that's four more NFL seasons. By that point, he'll have been with the Steelers for 13 years. By that point, Ben Rathisberger is, you would think, on the edge of retirement if he's not off the team. But, I mean, who knows, it's only four years. But a lot's going to change. He's earned it.

He said the highest winning percentage in franchise history, which is Bill Cower and Chuck Newell, and the fifth highest winning percentage since he's been hired in the NFL. Are you Greg Rosenthal at Liberty to discuss why you thought he was in trouble last episode? I've had a few people reach out on Twitter to say, why did Greg think he was in trouble? I didn't think he was in trouble. There's been reporting behind the scenes that Tomlin at one point

had a sort of a come-to-Jesus meeting with the ownership, that they wanted certain things to be straightened out. And that included some of the stuff with the team and discipline. And that included something that was a little more personal or off the field. And I think that message was heard. I believe it was either offseason ago or two. And I think this speaks louder than any reports. It just shows they're not concerned at all.

Wes, give me the AFC North Power rankings for head coaches. I think Tomlin and John Harbaugh are kind of neck in neck at the top. Really? Okay. That's fair. That's clear, right? John Harbaugh's great. Eh, I'd put Tomlin over Harbaugh, just because...

Wow. And then I think it's kind of little Mike Patton and then Marvin Lewis. I'd agree with that. I mean, I have to go... Marvin Lewis is Tomlin number one. Come on. Well, I've seen the way he prepares his team for the playoffs, and I've seen his in-game challenges.

So is it Andy Dalton's fault or Marvin Lewis? Well, I mean, make a decision here. It's a good thing. It's a good thing. It's a good thing. It's a longer history of mediocrity than Andy Dalton. That's sad. Marvin Lewis has done things with the Bengals.

that no one else could possibly do. Speaking of the pain wrecking, Solomon Wilcats, who I talked to about the Bengals said Marvin Lewis raised the Titanic is the way he put it. You're a competitive team, though. I'm probably underselling what Marvin Lewis has done on the personnel side of things. It's a good division of coaches.

If you went through all the divisions, I don't know if you could come up with a better one than Petten and Lewis being the two worst ones. Right. No, I agree with that. Moving on, the Arizona Cardinals could probably use a tight end and is Chris Cooley an option, the former Redskins tight end, who really has been out of the picture as a pro player since 2012.

He's 33 years old. Had some nice years in Washington for a while. But he's looking to get back and, you know, get his career back on track. He says he feels bleeping awesome. And there's a chance that he might sign with a team according to a recent report. Your thoughts, Chris Wesley. I think, I can't think of a precedent for this where it's worked out. it's been five years since he's been an impact player in the NFL

and the last time we saw him he couldn't run so I can't think of a guy who came back at tight end or any other skill position after essentially a half decade away and was an effective player and he's coming tight end isn't like wide receiver where you can be good until your 37 or 38 Tony Gonzalez and Shannon Sharp are the exceptions tight ends tend to decline a lot earlier than other take a beating Cardinals aren't a great landing spot for any so-called pass-catching tight-end under Ariens.

It's not a position that's used a lot in that offense. But Cooley, his argument was initially that he didn't want to play for anyone other than the Redskins. And I think he's getting that, you know, it would be fun to get back and be with a camaraderie. That was more about that. He said, I could be any team's third tight end. He's not trying to come in and recreate the position. I think he just wants another shot to be back on the team.

Right, at 20, 30 snaps a game for a good team. I think that would be the max. It still seems wacky to me. I'm not breaking any news. Just a few weeks ago, he has been in the mix for media jobs, for national media jobs where he's under consideration for some of those things. And now it seems to me like he was just kind of throwing this out there. I feel great.

I'm ready to play again. Now it's like, oh, wait, people are taking this series. Like, I don't know if he's really ready to do it. The Cardinals are interested, why haven't they signed him? Well, they are interested in signing, but you're right. They had Germain Gresham in the house, too. Would anyone dare take me on a sandwich when I say that he's not going to be on a roster in week one? Oh, I don't think there's any way he's going to be on a roster in week one.

Really? And then it makes you think, why are we talking about this gentleman? Well, because it's Chris Cooley, fun guy. He's a fun guy six years ago. It's over. Chris Cooley's having a nice little life. He's made a few million dollars. I'm sure.

Married a Redskins cheerleader. Did he? Divorced the Redskins cheer. Oh, did he? Why do we need to go on that road? Maybe that's why he's looking to get back into the NFL. Bill Parcells was lowered back into the league for similar reasons. Sign that pre-nup, guys.

Bill Parcell was lowered back because he was still good at what he did. Well, that's part and parcel of it. That's not in its entirety. Well, any team where... Criscally will not be on the around the NFL podcast anytime soon. Any team where it hurts you when John Carlson retires, you know you got a problem at that position. It's not a good thing. Moving on.

The two little items for the Tennessee Titans, first of all, wide receiver, Justin Hunter, released from jail in Virginia Beach, Virginia on a 25,000 secured bond Tuesday after being arrested on an assault charge Monday. He has a preliminary hearing date for September 3rd, and he's charged with polonious assault for allegedly stabbing, cutting, and wounding a victim with malicious intent. What are you doing, Justin Hunter? Was just on our 10 maker break players in the AFC list before this came up? Maybe the pressure got to. Well, by the way, it was on our making the leap list last year. Yeah.

Another argument for that summertime passion project. For the record, I argue vehemently against him being on making the leap last. Wes knew he was going to straight up stab dudes, allegedly. Well, the weird thing, actually, I think was the weapon was his fists. That's how he catches passes, too. I think it was he bludied the guy with his fist. That's the allegation. The reporting in Tennessee is that they're going to let the process play out.

he's going to show up the training camp and practice. I mean, they're kind of used to this. This is their, they almost have a role for this. It's like a history. You know, first you sign Kenny Britt. Okay, he's that guy. Then let's replace him with Justin Hunter. He's that guy.

And now they just signed Dorio Green Beckham, which is really kind of in the same sort of a lot of talent, a lot of questions off the field mold. They bring one in every couple of years. It doesn't work out to it. Well, in one scout, you saw this on Twitter that compared Justin Hunter from certain physical traits, not overall game, to Calvin Johnson and said that,

I'm not saying that. I'm not the scout. Great CoSell has said similar things. There's been Randy Moss comparisons, but those guys can catch. Right. And also, they care about the game. I mean, this guy, number one, you're in a heat-seeking position battle with Doral Greenbeckham for the same position,

and this is what you do with your summer. My problem with Justin Hunter was if there was a defender within three feet of him, there's no chance he's catching. Especially not now after this. You can't take contact, but it can dish it out apparently. Better summer vacation. Dan Hansis, Justin Hunter. No time of the slammer.

me. Mark, you could finally rest, by the way, because Marcus Marriota has signed his rookie deal, the number two overall pick, you know, that nasty offset language that had tripped up the two sides. I guess that's taking care of. So their presumed starting quarterback will be at camp on time. This is one was one where I guess I get that all teams, all front offices have ways that they, things they want to stick to in terms of how they sign their players and they don't want to be controlled by the rookie. But how about show a little faith in the guy you drafted number two overall. Offset language basically says, right, if we

cut you, we don't have to pay you as much money if you sign with another team. How much faith are you showing in Marcus Marriota when that's what the thorny issue is? He's the last guy to sign. Ridiculous. Well, when you draft guys like Jake Locker and Vince Young, you get a little scared. It is a ridiculous topic

though, the offset language. It's like, I put it on Twitter or something. If you were ranking like the dumbest offseason types of storylines, like just most pointless, because Offset language is like the last thing fans want to hear about it. My pet peeve is reporters who write for other reporters. Right.

And Offset language. We don't do that, but there are people who are, oh, you know what, this topic is really interesting to other reporters. Fans don't care about offset. They do not. And they don't understand it. And they know that every rookie signs before training camp since the collective bargaining agreement in 2001. Best thing that ever came out of that CVO is this.

Saved us thousands of stories. No more Achilles Smith, West. These guys get to camp and they start. The Bengals will have more Achilles-Smith in their future. Moving forward, RG3, West, speaking of quarterbacks, you and I were very bullish last summer that he had a big comeback season ahead of him. It did not happen.

And now there was a report ESPN's Mike Sandoz spoke with an undisclosed offensive coordinator who said this about RG3 and his chances of coming back. Quote, there is no coming back. He is done. The reason is the injury slowed his legs and his ego will not allow him to hit rock bottom and actually grind his way back up the right way.

Now, Wes, I was going to say, unless this offensive coordinator coached RG3, that's some unfair BS to be thrown at the guy, isn't it? Well, I think I'm not comfortable with a guy who's not close to RG3 talking about his ego. But from my point of view, I've soured on him because the guy cares more about hashtags than football. Why does everything have to be a movement or a hashtag?

Go get your nose in the playbook and stop. You're basically having the same point as the coach. I do. If I'm being honest, my instinct is to say this guy cares more about his social media presence. Well, he did purposely lower his presence on social media this offseason. He named his daughter a hashtag. His daughter's named hashtag. It's hashtag something. He put it on Twitter or something.

This is my daughter. Hashtag what's her name? It's worth noting that the piece that Mike Sando did wasn't. just about RG3, he went and pulled a ton of front office people and coaches and ranked the quarterbacks. And RG3's ranking, it is reflective of what the overall feedback is. That was the heat-seeking quote he got, but there wasn't a lot of nice stuff said about RG3 as a player. Well, it's crazy, though, that now we've changed that much, that there was a legitimate debate two years ago between Luck and RG3. We have changed so much that it would ultimately surprise everyone

if RG3 is respectable. If he plays as well as Andy Dalton this season, people will be like, oh, wow, that's a nice little comeback season. Why do you say it's weird that we've changed that much? It's weird that RG3's changing much. Fine, I agree. They were showing some clips here if you're watching us on video,

and I just wanted to scream out, get rid of the ball, RG3. Let it go. That's because this was a guy that won with his feet, and now he's having to change who he is entirely. Is he committed to doing that? Yeah, for the record, this guy is not the only one with that criticism. There's another personnel director who said the same thing about humility.

Mike Shannon has come out and said injuries are not the problem with RG3. He's got to capitulate to coaching. And Steve Young and Trent Dilfer have had similar opinions. You must capitulation. The way you've done things, RG3 isn't working. And you can't beat linebackers to the edge anymore. You've got to learn to play from the pocket. We're subway spokesman, RG3 or Jared?

I'm going to have to go Jared. Jared all along. I was going to say, hellath, no fury, like a whole. West scorned, but you just like compared I didn't compare them. I'm just saying subways in a fix. They've got to start to think brought in the horizon. Yeah, I think Justin Tuck.

I was wrong about RG3, but I had no idea. I was going to be wrong to the point where the guy forgot how to play quarterback. I just want to point out, though, we've seen careers and we've seen the NFL go up and down and surprise us year after year after year. And I have to think the types of candidates that we like to come back are guys that are young and have shown the ability at some point to be great players in the NFL. So there has to be some possibility that he's not done. All right.

All right, guys. Shut it down. We got a lot of time to talk about RG3. You don't have to go all show about it. You know? We're just doing what we're asked, you know? All right, here we go. Let's move on.

That's what's happening in the news. A lot of time to talk about RG3, but not as much time to talk about this because there's an expiration date on this topic. NFL's biggest mysteries heading into camp. You know, listen, you guys wrote great job in this piece. By the way, Wes out of nowhere came up with this topic. Really? We needed some high-octane content.

Came up with a great idea. We were sitting around twiddling our thumbs. Bang, this thing took off metrics-wise, sight blow-up. Well, Wes, since you are the men... I don't know if that's true. You are the men who came up with this brilliant idea. Why don't we start it with you? What to use, the biggest mystery is we head towards training camp,

which is right around the corner now. Well, the reason why this idea popped in my head is because I've mentioned it several times on the podcast already. Peyton Manning's body, specifically his arm is the biggest question mark. And to me, it's the biggest mystery because his body is the most important of all the mysteries to his team's success. If he's not the first half of 2014 Peyton Manning, the Broncos Super Bowl window is closed. If he plays like he did in December and January, they might have to rebuild. It's one of those mysteries. We'll have to wait until the season.

We might even have to wait until week 10 of the season. We'll have to wait until January because quarterback's bodies at age 39 tend to deteriorate over the course of the season. I think you can win in the NFL without an arm, though. I don't mean you're going to be the best quarterback. If you're Manning. If you're Manning and you have a great team around you, a good running game, a great defense, like he could be the 10th best quarterback in the league and be very limited, and they could win the Super Bowl.

I think from one angle, like the Gary Kuby higher is a good hire. If you want to shift some of the focus off your quarterback, he can win other ways. That's what I like about with the run game and what they can do there. They're going to have to. It can't be all Manning like it was two seasons ago. I guess my point is, like, overall effectiveness can Peyton Manning be as good as Eli Manning was a couple times? Well, sure. In terms of over the course of a season, sure, why not?

Speaking of Eli Manning, I visited a buddy in Jersey during my vacation, happens to live right around the block from Eli. told the story of he was cruising down the street checking out the house because he had heard around the neighborhood that he lived there and he pulls up and there's Eli standing there with his daughter like staring right up my buddy and he said it was really embarrassing and he didn't know what to do so he just drove away nice house by very concerning yeah nice house did he wave or no it was just like they made eye contact and then my buddy who's a huge Giants fan just squirmed and drove away well it's a bit of a stalkerish odd move Well, it didn't turn out well. He didn't mean to be face-to-face. He just wanted to see the house. That's what I mean. I could see Mark doing that.

Oh, yeah. Well, thank you for pointing me out of the four of us. Like driving by the petons, you know, house. I could definitely see Mark checking out. Yeah, I agree with that. All right. Mark, speaking of you, what is your big mystery? I had to go Sam Bradford because I understand that there's a, you know, there's a void all off season long

where we need to take a guy like Sam Bradford, who hasn't played a meaningful snap since October 13th, 2013, and project him as some sort of all-star high-flying quarterback for an Eagles team just because Chip Kelly's the coach. It is a good fit. But I went back and I was trying to think, oh, yeah, give me an example of one time when Sam Bradford wheeled that Rams team to victory

where you thought, you know what? Hey, this guy's got a little bit of that Brett Fav in him. And you know what? I came up with was a 24-24 tie with the Niners. Only game I could remember. There was a lot to be excited about when he was a rookie when he's a rookie and he kept them in the mix. That was a long time ago. But now he is reunited as he was with a rookie with Pat Shermer, Wes.

Well, that's not what has me excited. Pat Shermer. The worst I felt yesterday was when poor Mark Ortega, one of our editors, came over to question Mark and I about our kind of not being high on Sam Bradford. And he walked away basically with his tail between his legs because I told him that, Sam Bradford basically had devolved to the point where he was checking down on every single pass with the Rams. Sam Bradford, at his best, has never been that great. Like, if you go back to your point and look at his most effective games, if you really drive down, I remember when I studied him for one longer piece,

that it was these games where the Rams just rolled, and he would be like 18 for 21, and they won by 35 points, and the game was over early. There's not a lot of games where it's like, we got to put it in Sam Bradford's hands, make a comeback, or it's a shootout with the ram. And let's not bury the lead. Like, give me the other question, a quarterback that's come off, two major knee surgeries

that's ever been productive after that. I can't think of one. I don't, there might have been one, but two back-to-back ACL tears. Gregs make this point, too, though, how many quarterbacks have ever had back-to-back ACL tears? That's why they haven't come back. It's just not a, it's not a great club to be in. It's not, wow, this is what you're shooting for your pro career. That doesn't worry me nearly as much as his game tape worries me.

I think guys can come back from injury. I'm surprised Ian reported this week, NFL Media Insider, Ian Rappaport, that Bradford is comfortable going into the final year of his contract. He doesn't want to sign a long-term deal now. He wants to let it right. And I'm thinking, why are the Eagles offering them a long-term contract right now? Like, doesn't that seem crazy it does? Here's why I think it's going to work because he had devolved, he got hit so much early in his career that he was looking to throw the ball as soon as he got back there. and I think that that play action that Chip Kelly runs

and that's going to be great for him it's going to give him huge windows to throw to it's going to take the pass right heat off of him and he's going to have the best year of his career he still needs to be able to move though and I haven't we haven't seen that and we don't know how much he'll play in the preseason well I mean Nick Foles isn't the most mobile guy in the world rap sheet great

that's what we call him now I was Mr. Rap sheet occasionally in our post a lot of different things you can do I'm going to piggyback off something that Kevin Packer wrote, our Chicago correspondent with a sick body. The whole thing is a great package. But he wrote about Jadavia and Clowny. Of course, the number one overall pick last year, struck down by micro fracture surgery in the offseason

after playing just four games. Now, this could be tropey and, you know, very offseasony, but the team physician said he looks spectacular. And if that's true. Tropey. If that's true, look out. Because let's look at that division. And, you know, everybody's excited about the Colts.

I get that. They'll probably win 11 games. Not a lot of great teams otherwise. If Watt and Clowney come together, we've been talking about this for two years almost, and they score enough points, this team's going to be in the playoff hunt. I would not be surprised at all if they are.

We talked about the best pass rushing tandums in the NFL on one of our recent podcasts. I forgot Devin Clowney existed. That's because he hasn't done anything. If he's healthy, they could be the best pass rushing do in the NFL. Yeah, we said, Jay J.J. Watt and anyone. And if that anyone is 80% of

Janavian Clowny. This guy, when he came into the league, was being talked about as like an evolutionary Lawrence Taylor. This guy was hyped up more than guys have been in decades. That was a ridiculous comparison. Now, perhaps it is. But let's just say, like Greg said, he comes back and he's 80% of the player he was. And that's still good enough to be a guy. It's like a 12, 15 sack guy with J.J. Watt, who's one of the best players ever.

That's pretty scary. I still think we need to see post-surgery and post multiple health issues what he is because 80% of anyone it is what you're saying it is but 80% of anyone is is not going to work in the NFL a lot of times on top of it though his numbers has a chance to be inflated over the years because you're you've got watt commanding so much attention there were a couple plays with clowny last year where you watch and you just said oh my like this guy has got it at the same time when he was hampered with injuries he graded negatively in three or four games he barely played I mean and those oh my plays were just him playing 25 snaps a game in the preseason.

And for three of those snaps, which is a lot out of 25, he just did something where he looked like he could throw any of those players across the screen. And you don't usually, you know, see that in the NFL. I haven't, is that a skill? Across the screen. It's like a video game move. Is that one of the categories in Pro Football Focus is special stats? Call it the Clown Towers.

Yeah, the player throw. It's like caber tossing. I think with Clowny, it's just our expectations have been lowered so much and rightfully so. But that's why this Kevin Patro, he of the amazing body, great, great mystery, because he could be amazing. Well, the mystery is why you always talk about Kevin Patra's body so much. It's almost not that great. It's revealing quite a bit. It's great.

It's fine. He looks like like a taller Greg. Well, yeah, I mean, that's, you know, that's a little too far. That's weird. Greg, let's move on. You a little bit of a buzzkill. We need some patcher film up on here when we're talking so much patcher.

It's like working out like Rocky and Rocky 4. Yeah, like Instagram pictures of Patra. Just kind of. Let's work on that for the future TV. Greg, you want to talk a little suspension guys. Why is that a downer? You know,

it's sad when guys can't play. It's part of the world we live in. And all we, all I hear about when I show up to work every day is, oh, is the Brady news happened. today. It's like this anvil hanging over the entire. What's going on with my expense report? You get that. The entire network. Everyone forgot about a couple suspensions hanging out there.

Levy on Bell. Oh, by the way, the best running back in the league last season. He was supposedly suspension. It was never announced by the league. The report is that he's facing a three-game suspension. Ian Rappaport reported it the appeal was this week, finally. I don't know what the delay was. But I want to find out when is he going to play. It's a big question. That's a mystery. It's a big question for fantasy owners, too. Isn't that, that's maybe your number one pick if he's playing all season. Well, I would take Adrian Peterson number one,

but a lot of smart people are saying take Levion Bell, even with the suspension. See, I wouldn't do that. If you tell me, I would take Peterson number one, but if you told me Bell isn't suspended at all, which would be, or even maybe one game, then I think Bell is the top. Look at this guy. It's unbelievable. And I would take him no matter suspension or not because it's a long fantasy season.

But secondly, real football, like the Steelers and the ball, Baltimore playoff game or absolutely a shell of what they were offensively with all the weapons they have. If you have to take Laivion Bell out of the lineup, that is week, preseason, week five, that opener. No Brady and no Leveon Bell. One of the craziest things that happened in the NFL last season was the Steelers signing Ben Tate off the street and starting him in a playoff game.

Oh, my gosh. Ben Tate. Well, that's spelled. They had no depth for a team that usually plans well. They had nothing on that roster behind the Bell. It's like the Packers quarterbacks. Is DeAngo? in 2015, who they signed in free agency, necessarily going to be that much better of an option?

That's a mystery to me, too. It is a mystery. I think he's better than the Flotsam and Jetsam they had there last year. It's better than Ben Tate, who's washed out of multiple locker rooms. Flossum reference. I am combining my mysteries, by the way. There's a couple other ones. You guys remember there was a fella to use the Amishek Parlins there.

A fellow by the name of Darrell Washington. DeWash. He was once thought of. as maybe the, among the most dynamic inside linebackers in all of football, a huge difference-making player, suspended four games in 2013, suspended all of last season. He's still suspended. His suspension is indefinite. Where is Darrow Washington?

He could be a big factor for a good car. You have really gone next level, Angela Lansbury on us here. The gate, they got what, Sean Weatherspoon, Kevin Minter. You thought Washington would be back. You don't see guys outside of Justin Blackman vanish for years on end. Well, part of the problem is he was suspended for a year at least, and it was indefinite, but it was a minimum year. And that was actually before he had an assault arrest.

So I don't know if they're tacking that on now to this one. It seems sensible to tack it on. Right. Or is he going to come back and then you tack it on? Who knows? Can you do anything bad you want during that year? No, I think it gets tacked on. Here's the move.

Here's the move. If you are an NFL player and you're on indefinite suspension, don't do something else. Sure. Stay out of the headlines, please. Because everyone's just going to go like, oh, forget you. We're going to forget about you and everybody else will too. This is a big story.

I like this. This guy was their best defensive player two years ago and the fastest linebacker in football. He was getting 8, 9, 10 sacks as an inside linebacker. If he comes back in November. Right. And the Cardinals are vying for the playoffs, that could be a huge shot in the arm. And that's probably their best case scenario. And who knows?

Maybe it'll happen and they'll be on the old team. of around the NFL. You know, I like those guys with a little bit of trouble. I'm feeling the Cardinals. I just realized what a huge missed opportunity. Then I'd include the Unsolved Mysteries theme during this discussion. Well, we tried to get art of Robert Stack at the top of the piece to do the licensing. Well, if we had a forward-thinking producer, you could have just thrown it in there for us without us even telling us.

You have a very busy producer, Baccarion. We said forward-thinking, thank you. He's too busy to complain. Being busy really is not usually an excuse in the work world for, you know, not performing. You know, T.D. stayed longer than six minutes. Yeah, you know TD is busy when he stays the whole show, and he hasn't even given us any TV reviews yet. I really missed this.

Ballers still terrible, by the way. All right, moving on. All right. So the pain rankings, they concluded on Thursday with the reveal that, yes, Mark the Cleveland Browns, in my estimation, this is just one man's list, are the most pained franchise, just both from the organization and the fan standpoint

in the history of the NFL. This is more leaning in West, we'll get into it. My list has been more leaning post-merger or Super Bowl era to be more specific. And from that standpoint, I don't think anybody touches the Browns. But here is the, we'll start, but here's the full list. Here we go. The Kansas City Chiefs are at 7. West, your Bengals are at 6, the Bengals.

The Vikings at 5, the Lions at 4, the bills at 3, the Jet, That's at two, which I caught a lot of heat for on Twitter. And the Browns, of course, at one. So, yes, those are the pain ranking. I want to hear just some general before we kind of get into. NFL.com slash pain rankings. My first vanity URL. And that is.

Vanity being the operative word. Yes, one of the greatest things that's ever happened to me. I want to get some overall thoughts from you after doing this exercise before we kind of dive into the specific teams. Well, I learned a lot. I did a lot of research on these teams and some of the like writing about the Jets I didn't necessarily have to do a lot of research but they were still digging around

reading old stories and stuff but for some of these teams and Wes's team, the Bengals is a great example you learn more about what was going on behind the scenes and you know some losses are iconic and everyone knows about it no matter what team you root for but other if you dig through these other teams

you'll find losses like wow that why is this not talked about as much and you have that for all of these teams So that's, and then coming up with the order was the hardest part because really, and I wrote this in the Browns piece that ran today, is that, you know, the Browns I always knew were one. And I think there's not going to be a lot of pushback, except for the crazy people in the common section that write things like, oh, I can't believe the Niners aren't here. Did you see the offseason they just had? I said, wait, are you, you're on drugs. You're a drug addict and you need help. Like there are teams that should have no business being near this list, but people think that because they had a couple of rough years, these are teams that have had decades.

Decades of struggle, and that's what the pain ranking is about. Yeah. Well, let's talk about the elephant in the room. Okay. The New York football Jets. Yes. They don't call them that, by the way. No, no, just you.

Number two ranking, you weren't here, but your ears might have been buzzing on the beach. No, I was definitely not thinking about this office at all. We were talking Hansis. Yeah. And we were, you know, I think there's some feeling that as a Jets fan, a lot of people overrate their own pain as a fan. That's how this whole series really came about is a lot of arguments. even who experienced those pain. You might be overrating the Jets pain compared to other teams.

That the Jets overall have had a lot of pretty good seasons. They've gotten close sometimes. They do have that Super Bowl. I know it's a long time ago, but it counts for something. And that compared to some of these other teams on a list, you know, ranked a little too high. I respectfully disagree. I made the list so I can do whatever I want. Sure, it's your list.

Of course you can. But that lists are made to be our way about. Yes. Like I was just saying, the browser number one, you really could almost. make a case for every team that I have here. Except the Vikings. Except the Chiefs and the Vikings. Okay, whatever.

But my point is that it is obviously arbitrary. But, you know, I think the reason I had the Jets of two is because, yes, if you want to count the Super Bowl, which you should, go ahead. But I'm also thinking about the pain rigs is not just about how many titles you've won. In my opinions, this has been about the type of games that you've lost, how far you've gone, the heartbreak involved with that. Just the dearth of championship success, and the Jets have had none of it, no trips to the Super Bowl since Joe Namath. And then you get in there. They're the team that has, they're famous for just horrible things happening to them that make them a laughing sock, whether it's the butt fumble or Tebow mania or drafting Ken O'Brien instead of Dan Marino, the fake spike game. And, you know, if you're a real big fan of the team, you know Vinie Testa Verdi blowing out as Achilles, you know about the A.

championship in 2010 where they needed a stop and Antonio Brown made the catch. I mean, yes, I'm closer to it because it's the Jets, but I could have wrote five more things about the Jets. I could have wrote about, you know, Brett Favre. I could have wrote about the 1998 AFC championship game when they had a 10-0 win. But every team could come up with stuff like that. I would say, first of all, Dan, you should read this entire thing from 7 to 1. Great job.

You can do what you want with the Jets. It's your list. People can argue until the sun comes down. They have a more dramatic up-and-down history than some of these other teams, but how about the Lions haven't won a title since I think Eisenhower was in office. It's been an absolute landscape of terrible fandom, but not with the peaks and valleys, maybe. Yeah, and that to me is worse, though. The Jets have made the playoffs three, I think you could probably,

they made the playoffs triple the amount of times just since 2000. Then the Lions have made it period in this Super Bowl area. They've made the playoffs twice. I mean, it's outrageous in such a long stretch that they haven't won any games. It's all about the point of view. Right. Is it worse to always be bad or is it worse to be usually bad? And then whenever you're good, you're never good enough.

You get smacked down. There's two ways to look at. So who's too low on this list? Wes, I mean, I would make the argument they have had more pain than any franchise. And the Browns would be the only franchise I would accept as being. Well, let's, we got into it downstairs. We did get into it. And feelings were hurt.

That got awkward. It got very awkward. Really? Look, Dan, this was a painstaking process. You can, I printed out all these lists, read them last night. You can see the work that Dan put into it. If he ever has a portfolio, this belongs at the top. And he had at least a dozen twists of phrase that I was jealous that I had not.

The writing is spectacular. That said his idea of pain, I want to just like hand him a lollipop and say, pat him on the head and say, oh, that's cute. Oh, you almost made it to the Super Bowl. You lost your quarterback. Oh, that game was close and a kicker missed a field. Go, give me a break. That's not even that pain.

full. Try a 12-year period where five seasons started 0 and 6. Five out of 12 years started 0 and 6. No winning seasons in there. Your owner have one full-time scout in the 1990s during the big business era. Five of the top six positions in the front office are filled by that family. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. It's never going to change. He keeps drafting guys like David Klingler and Achilles Smith. He does stuff like not take Mike Dick's whole draft and two more first round picks and a second round pick for Achilles Smith. He does all this, and there's never, ever going to be any change. But here's the point. You're just going to keep losing forever.

Here's the point. You are too close to the team, just like I'm too close to the Jets. So you see things that mean more to you than mean to the average fan. No franchise in any sport ever went through a 12-year period like that. Well, that's just 12 years and it was bad. Right, but that's true pain. That's a leave a hole in your heart. After the war is done, you have to rebuild the whole city pain. That's not a, oh, we almost lost. But they have.

But here's the thing. They've come out of it to a different sort of pain that is really closer to the Jets kind of pain, which is they are somehow good, and yet they're still the biggest laughing stock to some people because of Andy Dawson. Hugh Jackson even mentioned we're a laughing stock because they know that nobody, they can't get past the first round. Who else has the equivalent of the list? Well, no, and I think we talked about the Jets.

I think they're too high if you really, really want to measure all the stuff. I put the Lions 2 and the Bengals 3. The Lions and Bengals would be 2 and 3. Then I would go Jets. It's not crazy. Because I look at a team like the Bills, and I see why Bill's fans are passionately saying we should be two or even one. But my argument would be you got to the mountaintop and get swatted off four times in a row, and that is painful having that Sunday every January where you are humiliated on national TV.

but for four years, you were a dominant, fun team to watch in the AFC. And what West just described, that period in the Bengals and the Browns have had similar periods, you would trade the embarrassment and the nonsense of not even competing Sunday to Sunday with four years of the Bills had. That's what I would say. That's why I think the lines should be, too, ultimately, because I think they've never had any light. And to me, as a fan, that is worse. And I've experienced both different sports, whatever. I think it's worse that they've never had any light.

anything good and that there's no light, even though it's a different sort of terrible pain to lose big games. Greg, I'll give you the floor for this because you gave me some heat about, what were you going to say? I was going to tee you up for who's not even here that deserves to be here. Well, I had a big part. If the Cardinals, I understand why the Cardinals were left off because they've moved around different cities, but if you're just talking about the organization,

the Cardinals have to be in the top five. Yeah, they've got a lot of the same. They're the most well-begone franchise in history. drew the NFL. I think so. And it's tricky because it's been in a ton of different city, Chicago and St. Louis and now Arizona. You've got the ownership problem. You've got the just dreary, no winning problem more than maybe any team in franchise in the NFL. And then now even in this later era where they've had some better moments, you had a pretty tough Super Bowl. So they would be there. And then I think the Chargers got overlooked. No one wants to talk about the Chargers

because they don't have a lot of notable fans, but they've had a really tough run. I mean, the highlight of their entire run. They had a nice quarterbacks in the 70s, but a lot of tough losses there. They've had tough losses with Marty Schottenheimer. They made one Super Bowl and they got blown out. I mean, it's been a tough run. If it makes you feel better and you wouldn't have seen me working on any other project

until Christmas, if this was a top 10, Cardinals and Chargers would be in some order, and then I'd probably put the Eagles a 10th. I wouldn't have the Vikings in my top 10. They're the team, I think, is too high. As you said in your piece, they've got more playoff appearances than anybody with the Cowboys

the Steelers. Right. I mean, they've had nothing but good luck. I think, whoa, I think to me, wow,

to me, like the 1999- season that their fans got to enjoy was more fun than the last 25 years of the Bengals. So you're a different fan. You're a different fan, though. I think the absence of hope is way more painful than anything like Gary Anderson missing a field.

How would you know? How would I know? Because I saw Tim Crummer, I break his leg in the Super Bowl. I know that kind of pain. It doesn't compare to an absence of hope. I think those are different. scenarios, but I see your point for sure.

You know it's a great series. I mean, really well written and a great idea and executed, but also just even the rankings, because I think Vikings fans saw this and said, oh, you're crazy. They should be higher. That was every single team. Every team I wrote, I got heat saying they were.

Oh, the Vikings, the Vikings are one of the most successful franchises of the past 40 years. What are they talking about? You know what's painful? We're grown men who watch other higher paid men just prance around in uniforms. Fair point. That's a metaphor. How about we go do something with our own lives? That's a metaphysical pain that we may never solve.

All right. That's it. Excellent work, Dan. Oh, thank you. Nice job. Medication maybe could solve that for you. How about a raise or something, Greg? Maybe at the dinner, buy me some booze.

That would be huge. Oh, for just you. Yeah. Just you. Okay. No, just you. Yeah, just me. And he's like, I was thinking team-wide, like something that would unify us

versus completely tearing us the structure and the fabric of the team. Well, you say that you've won an MVP trophy. Oh, what did that name? offense. I'm just saying, now it's time for Greg, give me a nice little pat on the head and say, there you go, buddy. I wouldn't want to ruin the hair. That's the second person in the last 10 minutes who wants to pat you on the head. I know, that's true.

All right, so we will be back next week with three shows, right? We're locked and loaded now. All right, we'll be back on the deal. What? You know the deal. You've gone for so long? What? You forgot what we're doing here?

Oh, yeah, the part where you completely disrupt the flow of the show. Yeah. Throw in podcasts. All right, all right, TD. Last time it was a flu game for Chris West. This time is the double nickel. This is Dan coming back to the garden. We're in that 4-5 and putting up a big game.

I remember that. So, Dan. Thank you very much. And that was against the Knicks, of course. And he won the game on an assist to Bill Wennington with a slam. That segment has got to go. Mark overlooked again. Wait, did Mark win while I was gone?

Future Mark did. On Twitter, though, not on the show. Some low-level tweet. But I appreciate it quite a bit. It was a nice gesture to some degree on that. Oh, it wasn't you. That old tension's still here. It's good to see things haven't changed.

All right, so we'll be back next week with three shows. Thank you for listening. This is Dan Hansis, signing off for the pressure is on right now. There is the sizzler, the mailman, the boss, and Tidey behind the glass. Until next week. This is an I-heart podcast.