NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Patrick Claybon and Hills We’re Willing to Live On

Episode Date: June 8, 2020

A bunker filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, and Marc Sessler are joined by Patrick Claybon to talk about the players speaking out against racism in the United States and react to the NFL's statement on Friday. Saints players also spoke up about Drew Brees' apology and the heroes say one football take they’re willing to LIVE on a hill for.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast will beat the medium seed. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis coming to you from a city filled with heroes in bunkers, in garages, in fact.

We're up to two heroes in garages. Greg Rosenthal's with us, Mark Sessler's with us, but also the great Patrick Claiborne. What is up, boys? What's so, guys? You know, I figured if somebody's out because they're a new father, the best thing I could do is have a child and then hop on to hang out with you guys. Well, it's a bit of an upstaging when you say that's not the case. No, I mean, I don't know. I'm not going to pit child versus child here.

I'm obviously biased, but Greg, Greg asked, and I asked Lauren, you know, because I was like, hey, you know, I want to hang out with the guys. Can I do a podcast? And she was like, yeah. So we made it happen, which is cool. Do you have any parental units over there, anybody to help out, or is it just the four of you? Her mom was here initially because Malcolm couldn't come to the hospital because he would have broken it. So, yeah, we, she was here. she left a few days ago, so it's

just us doing the two-kid thing, which is different. Gabe Claibon, born July 29. Page Paige Claibon. Sage. Sage. Like the, like the herb.

You have to blame that on our researcher. My researcher is my five-year-old son, Jack, so you could throw him under the bus. But Sage, Claibon, born July 29th, and you know, you also Patrick told us before the show that you had abstained from alcohol during the entirety

of Lauren's pregnancy and then we were like, whoa, it blew all of our minds. And then we said, well, how much do you drink? And you said, I believe the number was, what mark, eight ounces? Eight ounces is what you, uh, per week. Well, it's kind of like between eight to ten ounces per week. I mean, you know, it's not like I'm, I'm 36, guys. It's not like I'm 25 anymore, just going out, getting bull. list all the time.

The number will be a lot higher. And I spent so much time at home, like, at some point, you have to be concerned about alcoholism. If you're just at home with your three-year-old, you know, kicking back shots. Oh, absolutely. You know what? This has been, and I think this has been a common talking point that since this, you know, the COVID-19 took hold in mid-March, a lot of people have turned to drinking on some level

to get a release or just to relax after the kids are in bed or just to relax and just to kind of turn your brain off for stress reasons. I certainly was doing that. And I think it's fair to say that you also then have to keep tabs on these things because how the days all like bleed into one another, you might realize, oh, wait, I've drank multiple days in a row. Let's shut this thing down.

That's why I instituted my weekend's only policy just for that reason. I mean, I would say one thing that, you know... Zessler conspicuously quiet. No, not at all. I mean, I think there was this period of sort of lush behavior when everything kind of melted. And I forget, you can point to alcohol, you can point to lots of things, but it was, you know, I can maybe sleep in a little bit more than I need to or not really care if the kids are roaming around the house or just eat takeout food nonstop because, hey, look at me, I'm supporting vendors.

but then suddenly, I've tapped on like 18 pounds and it's not coming off as easily as it did in the days past. So you got to, there's a reckoning at the end of all this. So I think it's lost, it's luster. The, um, the Caligula facts of self-rooming. That was something initially. It's like, hey, we're all in this together, just completely letting go. I do have to ask Patrick one question, though, is someone who, you know, I named my child, um, Colton after Colt McCoy. And I, and when I see Sage, I have to ask if you've followed suit and named. name Sage after Sage Rosenfeld is one of your favorite signal. When you go through quarterbacks, which is tough, right?

Because you're looking for a name for a girl. And it's like, man, I just have to name her after a quarterback. Right. The Dolphins quarterback, ideally. One of the more iconic quarterbacks in NFL history whose list of accomplishments includes things dropped out there. But the new sage will have the accomplishments. I mean, he had the sage copter, you know, that's what he's remembered for.

Although I do, you know, frankly, by who? By Texans fans, unfortunately. It was a rough, it was a rough moment. Was that a way off? Did you say the stage copter? Yeah, you got to remember the stage copter. Where he got, where Sage got spun around and had a costly fumble in a game where I think all they kind of had to do is hold on to the ball and they would have won.

It was a tough moment, but he had some great moments with Miami that I enjoyed. there was a great he says great moments yes there was there was a sage take a while back and so like i replied with a screenshot of me searching youtube for sage rosenfeld's highlights and it said no results found everybody replied like hey sage copter what about the sage copter it's a thing it's out there right huh all right good all right so you know let's be honest here like so our our show as as it's typically comprised is four white dudes and Ricky, our producer. And, you know, it's important to have other perspectives, especially right now. And we've been lucky because it's not just like, oh, we got to go dial up and let's get Steve Weish on here. Let's get this person, that person. We have people that they're friends, they're friends of ours. And Steve Weish is a friend. He came on last week. And MJ Acosta was on our network show on Friday. And that was, you know, we really enjoyed having

MJ on. And Patrick, we're excited to have you on for a number of reasons. But you've always been very outspoken in a positive way on Twitter and saying things that you believe in. And you've always been, there's nobody better as a Twitter troll slayer than Patrick Claibon. So to have the opportunity to hear from you and listen to you at this time when you were, you're in paternity leave. I don't think anybody thought it was even an option. So we're really happy to have you on the show. Know what the last couple of weeks have been like, you know, all this unfolding in the world set against the backdrop of the baby in the middle of it all. Like, yeah, what's, what's it been like for you, Patrick? It's, I mean,

that's the backdrop of everything, uh, because a lot of things have been happening. Obviously, the global pandemic, uh, being one thing we talked about not drinking, uh, going through a global pandemic where, uh, you know, things have started happening and, uh, you get a few. And not that it's bad. Like, I, I like talking to people. Uh, but at a certain point, the, uh, the, uh, the white guilt phone calls, you tend to get a little tiresome, but like, I understand where people are coming from, honestly, like, because these discussions, right, because of the way that our society perceives racism is that it's this thing and either somebody is a racist and they're a bad person or they're not a racist and they're a good person. And we kind of elude this idea

that there are racist things that good people can do that have racist outcomes and negatively impact people. And so under that specter, like discussion of these things is hard because well-meaning people kind of don't want to talk about it. And it takes kind of the country being on fire before some people feel comfortable about talking about it for fear of, you know, being a bad person. And that kind of out is what allows these things to continue because we, as a people, as a country, we have a difficult time addressing the particular matters that lead to these outcomes. And so it's, it's been different to see the reaction because, like, you guys know me, you talked about the tweets and, you know, like, the person that I am, I mean, this week is last week.

And last week is last month, and last month is last year. And last year is every moment since November 25th, 1983 that I've been on this planet. But it's a little different to see the world, the NFL, Roger Goodell. You know, some coworkers that I had never spoken up to or spoken to about this, you know, kind of stepping up and, you know, using the right language, you know, saying the right things. And so it's been different. It's been very different. I was going to say you mentioned the NFL, you know, how it's been different internally.

And I think we can, you know, talk a little bit about that because it's out there. You know, the meeting, even just that, I assume you were on, Patrick, the one where Roger Goodell spoke and they had some speakers involved. And Steve Weish and M.J. Acosta hosted it. And there were some definitely emotional moments with. employees addressing Goodell, which was fascinating. I don't think anything like that's ever happened before. That's already being written about in football morning in America by Peter King. And some of the stuff that was going on is in the athletic article about how the players video came about. But just from an NFL perspective, you know, it was really such a change.

I'm curious, Patrick, what you were thinking, watching that first meeting, and we don't have to get into the details of it, but just seeing some of the young people at our company not only speak up and be emotional about their experiences. And the word heartbroken sticks out to me in terms of a coworker of ours, Jarek that mentioned in terms of he was heartbroken about the reaction and the response that the NFL had had to everything. But also, like, the tough questions that Roger Goodell took. from from our employees and and I guess later that day you know you saw you saw a little bit of a change from from roger yeah it was it was in heartening you know for me these are I mean you guys know we talked about this like this is a discussion I've been preparing for my whole life and so I'm sitting there holding you know a five day old and you know I'm having to like pass her off to to her mom and kind of sneak away to listen in on this phone call It also works at the NFL, and I'm sure I'd love to be, you know, listening to. Yeah, no, it's, it's something that's, you know, definitely important to this house. But, you know, you wonder who's going to say it. And I, you know, have, you know, pull back the curtain, you know, I'm going year by year.

I don't know how long this is going to be there for me. And so as firmly as I tread, I still always try to find a way to tread lightly. And so like openly questioning the commissioner with regards to something that that pertains to a lawsuit that the NFL took place in, you know, I can't do that. I didn't feel like I would be able to do that safely. I don't feel, I can't afford counsel. You know, I can't afford to get my knee surgery that I'm putting off for nine years. I can't find legal defense. So to see Jordan straight up ask that question,

Jordan Dolbin just asked Roger Goodell about Colin Kaepernick. The first thing I did was, you know, flip over to Twitter and send her a heart emoji. I never use hearts. But to hear the passion in her voice, to hear the way that she phrased it. And then AJ Curry followed up asking him right back after that. It just meant a lot. It meant a lot to those of us who, you know, like I said, you feel you get to this point, you have to tread lightly because this is the country that we live here. And so you don't want to offend the wrong people. People talk about PC culture, but, you know, the people that say that, they're the ones that, you know, operate and run the culture. So what you can't do is you can't offend them because then you don't

have a job and you're you're looking somewhere else. And so for for for the social team and talking with people, you know, former employees, the folks in social, they read the replies. You know, they see how the world is reacting to everything. And so I think that makes them in tune. I think in some sense, you could say it almost radicalizes them. And they're younger. And they're younger. And Steve said it to the, you know, cap that media and in credit to Steve Weiss for, you know, hosting a few of these things. And he started actually by asking Goodell about the player's video. And we can backtrack and get into the whole story about how that happened.

But he actually did start it by asking Goodell about that. Goodell indicated that something would be coming out later that day, but he wasn't going to basically say it in that form. But I remember him closing the entire couple hours by saying it's been about as mentally draining a week as possible, but that he was getting energy and he was inspired by the young people, not just at this company, but everywhere.

Oh. It was extraordinary, too. It was extraordinary. Patrick, you alluded to Jordan Dolbin, who we've known for years, and she was on the Shield softball team, and A.J. Curry, who we've worked in the next room over from us.

Brendan Minter, he's been kind of the center of the story. He works for the social team, and he connected with Michael Thomas, kind of behind the scenes, not with any, you know, he didn't give his boss a heads up ahead of time. It was something he felt he wanted to do was important to do because he wasn't happy with the direction the NFL initially had taken in the aftermath of George Floyd and also Colin Kaepernick years ago now. And to see these people that we know that we work with, it was surreal when I'm watching that and seeing Jordan talking and asking Roger Goodell, about Colin Kaepernick. And I just, it really is, that's the word that keeps coming to mind is extraordinary that

we're seeing hopefully, you know, change and, and, but one thing we have definitely seen, whether it's lasting change and we're going to find out and you can only cross your fingers, but that this does, again, feel different. This isn't something George Floyd was killed in custody two weeks ago now. And this remains not just an important, huge, dominating story in our country, but in the NFL. And you just want to see that keep coming. I would say one quick thing that I think all of us who were on that call, who've worked for the NFL for an extensive period of time, can feel good about it.

And when you talk about, is this change going to last or not? Is that, you know, here's what happened. The NFL put out the initial response, and it felt very much like, an NFL response. And to your point, Patrick, that all the, all the people on the ground looking at the response to that from players, from fans, from people around the country who have a different perspective than the people that put together that initial message, don't know who they are, it's just not acceptable.

And the one thing I felt, where I felt energy on that call and you could feel it building was that the answers were not acceptable. And it's not to point fingers at the league office or anything. that stuff. But Jordan answered the question. And then when AJ, I thought it came in with a second question about Kaepernick that was very clear and very direct, it's saying we're not going to accept the same answers. And we need to ask the questions differently or we need to ask them a second and third time. Had that not happened on that call and everything that Brendan did too, I mean, Goodell's response, I don't know if it would have existed. But I mean, at some point, you know,

and Goodell's been troubling, you know, he's had his issues through this. But I do see someone who's trying. I see someone who is trying to some degree with where he's at in life to formulate a response, and he did. Now, and there's a lot of people learning slower than we want to, but I learned a lot in the last few weeks myself. I think with, in terms of the league and Roger, they're very insulated in terms of the things that they have access to, the people that have access to them. One example would be when the commissioner speaks at the league. meeting, us in the NFL network newsroom have no idea when he's going to speak. There's no communication.

We just have to watch a monitor. And when the commissioner runs up there. I know everyone thinks we have some sort of inside. It's like, no. It's like, you know, I'll sprint to the desk. And it's like, hey, Commissioner Roger Hill is at the podium, set to speak. And so, like, I think when they hear things, like when they talked about meetings with the players Coalition, they honestly might be hearing a lot of these things for the very first time.

And so you could see it through their reaction to 2016. And this was the thing in a subsequent call that I brought up because I definitely know, like, all of the stories and the personal notes, I've got them, everybody has them. But what I want to try to do is to kind of look back at what we did wrong and why we did those things. In 2016, 2017. 2016, 2017, yeah. I feel like, I mean, it was obvious that a certain reaction from a certain segment of

the population was prioritized, and that was the concern, past doing what was right or honestly evaluating the issue. And while those folks are being, you know, relatively quiet now, they're going to be back. It's an election year. They're going to be very loud. they're still going to have a lot of money. They're going to have a lot of influence.

How is the NFL going to react when that starts happening? And that's my question for them now. And I guess we're just going to have to wait and see. Do you think it was answered a little bit later that afternoon? Because I just know the timing of, you know, you asking that question on a second work call that was kind of following up. The first one, but it was more like localized to, you know, later that afternoon, that is when Roger Goodell releases, you know, the video in response to

the player's video, basically, you know, saying Black Lives Matter, talking about, you know, police brutality and basically repeating what they wanted him to repeat with the exception of Colin, you know, talking anything about Colin Kaepernick. Did you think that was sort of, you know, a sea change? You know, because he definitely, there's definitely nothing like that a few years ago. Well, my thing is, like, going from zero to 50 is incredible progress. It's not 100, you know. I think that, you know, we should be happy with 50, but the reason we wanted 50 is because we want things to be better. So there's no need to be complacent with 50.

We can try to work our way, you know, towards 100. I just, I know that a lot of the people who made those decisions, you know, that put up the slides. We were all that media summit where they put up the slides talking about the decline in viewership and how it tied to the protests and how that was the concern. Those people are still here. And I'm not clamoring for anybody's job, but I would just like to know if it was a consultant who selected those consultants, are they, and, you know, what's, what's, what's,

changed for them and what priorities have changed for them because these things these things aren't going to go away it's it's not a quick fix part of uh one one quick thing was just that i i saw how jason reed wrote on the undefeated today just how uh patrick mahomes being part of that video really made a difference which is was interesting that that that carried some some weight uh in the league office super bowls mean a lot mm-hmm a lot the face of the league in a lot of ways. And, you know, spinning forward into September and the hope that there's a, there's a season, you just wonder what's going to happen to fall out with Drew Breeze. His comments, of course, he made the comments about the flag. A huge backlash. He apologized multiple times in multiple formats. But then, really, where the story took a huge turn then was when Donald Trump tweets, Drew Breeze, who they've had a connection together in the past. Drew Breeze, you should never have apologized for saying what you said, which is don't kneel during the national anthem in protest. And then Drew

Breeze, in an important moment for him, replied to the president and essentially rebutted what Trump's criticism was. I'll just read what he wrote back to Trump. We must stop talking about the flag and shift our attention to the real issues of systemic racial injustice, economic oppression, police brutality, and judicial and prison reform. We are at a critical juncture in our nation's history. If not now, then when. We as a white community need to listen and learn from the pain and suffering of our black communities.

Now, spin forward to September, this is an election year. It's going to be obviously a hotly contested, and it's going to go in a lot of directions as Trump tries to get four more years. And you can imagine, almost guarantee two things, that players are going to need. Neil and that Trump is going to use that to try to inflame his base. And how does the NFL, Roger Goodell, the owners who might politically align more with Trump than not, how do they react and put pressure potentially on Roger? This, that will have huge ramifications in a few months if there is football played.

Well, it's already happening. I mean, Trump's come after Godell. specifically, you know, since, I'm sure they're not looking to have that fight out publicly. But it was, it was interesting with Breeze because that was his third apology, essentially. And, you know, you did it once. He got criticized a lot for a vague apology where he uses, like, the clip art of the white hand and the black hand. If you, like, Google, like, white hand, black hand together. Right.

It's the image that comes up. He didn't go to that old. He didn't. And he apologized. a second time that day, and that one was still pretty vague, too, but it was, you know, it was a little more in-depth, and his wife had apologized. And it was interesting, it took till the fourth time when he went to Trump, where he actually started, where he addressed specifically some of, I think, the issues, which I think, you know, people were waiting for his, is, his teammates

were accepting his apology, and they did a lot in-house, and Sean Peyton reportedly told everyone, you know, don't talk about it outside, so we're not going to hear too much about it. But it was interesting that that response to Trump was the first time, Breeze actually started going through and kind of addressing the specific issues of the day rather than just sort of saying, I'm sorry that I offended people. And that's really how things should work, right? You say something, people call you out on it, you evaluate, and then you go about things, and to have an opportunity to kind of confront really the face of these problems. The president. It's, and not that these problems are exclusive to the 45th president.

They were pervasive for, you know, 45, 44, all the way down to one, before one, 50 years before the first. So it's, it's great for Breeze that he's able to do that, and they will be able to move on. In terms of, you know, how the league reacts to that, I think it really sets a foundation for how teams and owners and coaches can react to the Trump problem. Because honestly, you know, it's been a long four years. And a lot of people in America have kind of done the reading because of the president. And they know more than they did in 2016. And I think some owners will as well.

And honestly, not to get too deep into punditry here, but a few of these owners probably want to preserve their political ideology and hitching their wagon to Donald Trump again. they probably don't see that as the best route to do that. So I could see them having a different response. Well, I mean, you're seeing that with poll numbers across the country for the first time in a while. So something is changing. There is a shift.

But, you know, Drew Breeze also, and a lot of people ask right away, would this just to simply destroy the New Orleans locker room? Would this be repaired on any level for the Saints? And one thing about that, one of the better locker rooms in the league, is that you got your Cam Jordans and others who went and spoke with Breeze. And I do, you know, for the initial response by Breeze and probably how his heart was at that time, I do believe that people can learn if they're willing to, especially from people, friends, family members, his Saints teammates are family members to him, that clearly there was a listening process

that probably informed that Trump response where he wasn't there a few days ago. So I don't know. It's like if you're with people that are down on breeze overall, I mean the initial response, absolutely. But are we also willing to see with everyone, just growth? I mean, the whole point is where will we be five years from now, five months from now, five weeks from now, where we're all kids be? Will they see things differently that we do? And it's like it's going to be a creakier process with people with embedded thought processes that have been in their minds for decades. And it's going to be. easier with young people that are sponges for justice we and we've talked about it on this show for years before any of this happened drew breeze like what is yeah we don't need to even get into it but yeah there's you can read about it there's there's legal stuff there's all sorts of stuff not a shocking not shocking that it came from him versus fill in the blank other quarterback but even beyond like the the legal proceedings and the situation with his mom and all that stuff i i mean just like is he a genuine person. And then my first reaction when the apology, first apology came was, well, was this actually

from some sense of a level of enlightenment or did he sit down with a PR crisis team and pound out a statement? But then you hear more and more about the story. And like we said, it was very behind closed doors. Actually, nobody had access to the Saints team meeting except for Shaq attack. Shaquille O'Neal was there. That was a wild subplot in NFL history that Shaq, who just happened to be scheduled for this Shack is also a cop by the way. Jack is a cop

for the sake of they keep Jack on the Zoom call. He then apparently it's very emotional. I think Peter King wrote that he couldn't report that Breeze cried in his conversations with teammates, but he may have and then Shaq spoke to the team about the importance of

unity and not letting the media and social media divide. Divide Here's the thing. The New Orleans Saints are a team of professional football players. Right. And they have been through a lot. And I guess the thing that I wanted to try to tell people is they were going to be professionals no matter what.

And we all work with people that say some things and do some things where we're just like, you know, what in the, like, what are you talking about? And especially, especially black men in America, if we were unable to work with everybody who said some flawed race stuff, then we would never be able to work. And so, like, I understand, like, the team huddle, the kumbaya, like, win, again, again, win, think that it may have been a little awkward. But, like, Michael Thomas, Alvin Camarra, Marcus Davenport, like, Cam Jordan, they'd still be pretty good football players. Right. And regardless of how they felt about true phrase. Right.

I thought that part of it, how it relates to football, I wasn't really even thinking or worried about that. Like, this is going to be their biggest problem. Because I just think back to all the teams that have had, like, think about the 2000, what year is it? The year of the Steelers first one with Ben Rathesberger. Talk to how all of his offensive teammates felt about him that year as they steamrolled to a Super Bowl.

Like, you know, it just, you know, they're out there playing and And they're going to find a way. It's also the middle of the summer now. But it's... How do you know Shaq wasn't in a team meeting in 2004? Right. He's like the forest stump of unity. Yeah, we're going to...

It's like, hey, we need somebody to kind of bring a team drama into perspective. Let's go get Shaquille O'Neal, who famously got along with all of his team. And they were never already notable issue. Came out of the Peter King article. So Shaq is telling these Saints players, listen, man, if the media didn't break up me and Kobe, we would have won five more titles. Now, bro, how about you take a little accountability yourself? We're getting off track. That's ridiculous.

Come on, Shaq. All right. Good talk, guys. That's kind of what's happening. But there's so much happening in the NFL right now that we could have talked another hour on that. But let's talk a little bit of football. We want to talk of a little football, Patrick Claibon? I like football.

Yeah, football's good. We like football. Speaking of a unifying agent, a professional football. And, you know, we have a 2020 season that continues, and who knows, and Cessler, I know you've been tracking this very closely. Who knows what can happen with COVID-19 and a second outbreak? Let's hope not. Let's hope to come.

I'm the only one tracking this. This is a- You've been really on top of this. more than anyone I know, I expect you for it. Well, just the hubris that somehow, because we want to go to the Westfield Mall, that the virus doesn't exist anymore. Numbers aren't great right now in, like, California and Texas, but, yeah. But I have to get my drink on and drive around town and sit under an umbrella with my girlfriends.

No, not me, someone else saying that, you know, that person doesn't need the coronavirus is in their way at this point. So it doesn't exist. Get on a plane to Vegas. whether you want to criticize or understand where they're coming from. They seem to be going full steam ahead. They said this season's going to happen unless. So let us for the moment, Mark, if you can, imagine a week one in September. And with that in mind, with everything that's going on on the football side of things,

what is like maybe an unpopular opinion that you hold, something that not many people or any people would agree with but it's not and it's not you know some people say oh man you're really going to die on that hill man you can really die on that hill no no no we're looking to live hills that we're ready to live on do you guys get it the conceit okay yeah because we like the hill right right yeah you know this is this is my hill we're tending to the hill i might die on it but i know i will conquer and live upon the hill you are going to slaughter everyone who tries to make you die on the hill and you're going to bend them to your will it will be the hill will be your own personal valhalla look at it that way Greg what ill are you ready I want to have here

someone else go first come on you always do that I don't always do that well because I'm still you know that's a Greg trope all right I want to it's your it's your tone of thing because I'm confused whether you know what the tone of the hill is whether you're you're you're you think you might die or is it just like a prediction? You know, I want to see what you're setting the tone here. Then that's on me because I do want to make it clear, but I also don't want to go first because I need to gather some thoughts. I'm saying.

I see where this is going. And you're willing to defend that hill when the aggressors try to take it. Yeah, they're going to storm. They're going to storm. Fine. You want me to go first? I'll go first. Do it, great.

I mean, Greg simply came up with an answer during the Philippines. No, I really was curious on the tone here. Because to me, hills aren't, you know, they're not created overnight. This has to be something that, to me, it's not like, hey, I've got a bold prediction. You know, the bucks are going to win 12 games. No, it's got to be something that, to me, that I felt like for a long time. If I'm willing to die, I'm recognizing that predictions and seeing into the future, that could be right or that could be wrong, but I need to feel the righteousness.

of this belief to be willing to die. Can I just jump in one second? For mindset purposes, Greg, you're not even willing to entertain the possibility that you would die. Well, this is where we're different. You're here to live. I feel a slight disconnect with this too, but I will, I'm willing to die on this particular episode.

Because, you know, I know I've died a lot. I've died in some hills over the years. But this is one that I've been tending to. I've been building. and if people want to come at me, they can come at me in terms of my belief in Philip Rivers. I wanted you to say,

Gino's so bad. I was going to run around the street. Because... His corpse is rotting on that hill. So the hill, the hill isn't just about his career. That's, we know about that. There's a lot of people on that hill.

Like a lot of arguments, you can have a both sides argument of like Eli Manning and Philip Rivers. Like, one side is wrong, but, like, you, you can make that argument that, that, that, that Philip Rivers has been part of the problem. I, I look at his career and I see a guy if he was in a million other situations, um, that he would be a no question Hall of Famer, um, that his skill set and his aggressiveness and his ability, um, to put it on the money and not worry about it would have succeeded in so many places, so much better.

than a Chargers organization that never gave him the support with the offensive line and running game for about 10 straight years of his prime. And then as someone who was starting to lose hope to see him go to Indianapolis and go to a team that I think has a great head coach in a lot of ways, great at calling plays, great at managing his team, a great GM who I think has put a smart team around him, and most importantly, a great offensive line in front. of him. Like, I am willing to die on the hill that Philip Rivers is not only going to be an asset

and carry the Colts further than they've been in a long time, but that he's going to be a much better signing than Tom Brady ever was. That Philip Rivers was the guy that with this situation, with this Colts team, was the guy who was brought in this offseason that's going to make the biggest difference. And we're going to be talking about the Philip Riversons all season long. So much better than Brady statistically or in terms of... I know we're not allowed to care about

quarterback victories. Those don't matter. It's all connected. He's just going to play better and he was a better signing and a more valuable signing to me than Tom Brady was in Tampa. Not that I'm like just trash and whatever Brady is going to do, but I think Philip Rivers has more left in the tank and is in a great situation.

it may be a better situation than Brady and that he's going to outplay him this year. All right. Here's my issue. Because this is supposed to be a hill that you're living on, and you're just on this hill alone. I've been here. I see blankets everywhere, picnic baskets.

Yeah. It's crowded. A lot of people think what you think on this top. Well, this could have, well, this is maybe, it would have been a benefit of me not going first then. You know, you've got a problem. The addition of the Tom Brady addendum removed some people from the hill.

Yeah, the Brady part got, you had a little spice to the next there. But to me, you know, if you're going to die on that hill, it's got to be something that's been inside of you. And that's how it pushes forward into this season is that he's better than Brady. Come on. Philip Ripper's pushing forward inside of Greg.

I mean, well, there's that too. Who knows? Yeah. could have another another rivers Eric your turn Patrick a hill you're willing

to live on the hill that I'm willing to live on it should have been pretty obvious to anybody that you're watching a game and a team scores a couple of touchdowns and it's early on

somebody on the broadcast team says well folks they've got all the momentum and then of course what happens whether it's the Kansas City Chiefs or the Buffalo Bills or anyone, the other team comes back and leaves you wondering what the hell was the point of this quote-unquote momentum,

this all-seeing, all-knowing force that surrounds us and penetrates us and binds football together. Momentum does not exist. It is a figment of our imagination. If you want to call it good vibes, call it good vibes, but there is no force that gives you a boost. It just doesn't happen. You want points.

You would like to put points on the scoreboard, this metaphysical will to win, blah, blah, blah, blah, platitude, schmatitude. It just, it's fake. It's fake. We're human beings. We live to see patterns as my child storms in the garage. It's a survival thing. We want to try to make everything make sense.

Everything isn't always going to make sense. It's not real. It's made up. Stop it. Patrick, one question. When the score was 28 to 3, and I was writing my article about the Patriots defense, letting the team down,

and with every passing moment sitting in that stadium, now I'm not for or against your theory necessarily, but you could feel, because we were sitting on the Falcon side of the field with their fans, that contingent starting to slowly grow more silent by the minute. But on the field, the Patriots, their body language, their energy was shifting and changing. And suddenly, coming into full bloom was the most apocalyptic loss by any team in the Super Bowl ever. And I don't know if it just happened because, you know, the X's and O's matched up.

And, I mean, it did feel to me that at some point teams are broken. And when they went into overtime, I would have bet all my possessions, which are not much, that the Falcons were not winning that game. And I don't know if it's momentum or if it's just I'm feeling something. Yes. What say you? How about a follow-up example? Before Patrick responds, a follow-up example, spent to this past playoff season where the Tennessee Titans a 9-and-7 outfit that nobody, despite, you know, mega games made in the post-Hanna Hill world, all right. maybe they can go up to New England and win

and in fact they did and that was nice but guess what? That momentum momentum maybe is the wrong word and maybe yeah where we go welcome to the hill Dan confidence confidence is a thing

teams players teams anything in your life confidence can help drive you forward and for the instance for the example of the Titans the confidence gained beating the Patriots in New England that confidence slash momentum, whatever you want to call it,

I believe absolutely played in a role in them going to Baltimore the next week and doing what they did to the Ravens. What say you? I think the Titans were a good football team and they made plays and they won the game based on the plays that they made. I think that's what happened there.

And Mark, with the Super Bowl, if momentum was real, then why didn't the Falcons win the Super Bowl? Well, if momentum existed, because here's one thing I do. It's able to come back. Here's one thing I totally agree with you on.

When I see a team in like end of first quarter, it's 17, nothing. You're like, whoa, there's way to. The momentum doesn't mean once you've captured it earlier in the game that you roll with it. I think it shifts like an ocean and the Patriots caught a wave that took them to shore. That's what I'd say. What momentum is depends on what the result is and we can apply it after the fact. All right. So it always exists.

And it explains every win. in every single loss. So Claibon, Claibon, this is the second podcast. He's really been going on about this lately. He was ready with the topic. I mean, this is it. Yeah, he was, he was on the Saints Twitter podcast.

People should check it out. That boy, Wolf. It was a great, it was a really great episode, my buddy Adam. And, and it talked about this. And the one only retort to momentum I had, too, is, well, there is something to like feeling more and more confident maybe as things are going well for you.

And that can be helpful. But to answer, let's say the Falcons thing, I guess I do still just believe, and I know it's not the world that happened, but when you go watch that game in the final seven or eight minutes, that all of those, that there were seven, eight, ten plays where if it had been a split second different, or if a Falcons player had done something a little bit better

than the game was over. Right. That those things, things just could have, they could have happened. They didn't happen, but that was up to the player on the field, and it didn't happen. And then if just one of those happens, then we're never talking about momentum or anything like that. All right.

Dan's not on this hill. Oh, no, I'm actually, I was more, that was kind of a little devil's advocate, but I was more taken back by that Patrick spun it to momentum, which is interesting. And it's a good way to make SEG, you know. Well, like, because the place that jumps out to me the most is in college football where they're always talking about it. And we're always doing this booth psychoanalysis of 19-year-olds. And it's like, well, here's what these 19-year-olds were thinking. 19-year-olds have no idea what they're thinking because they're 19.

It just, they don't know and you don't know either. You would hate the, you would hate to be a huge pro tennis fan as I. I am and listen to half the trash analysis, which is all about momentum and mental and never like mentioning it's trash. All right. So let me go next. And I'll, uh, the conceit in my mind in my mind of the segment was you have to be alone on the hill.

Greg has a whole, a whole like subdivision of people with him on the Phillip Rivers is going to be good hill. Claybone, the momentum thing, I don't know. I don't even know what to make sense of it, but there's probably people that definitely agree with you. on that hill with you. But how about this for a hill that I'm alone on? And I'm not afraid to live is that Derek Carr is going to be getting MVP buzz by November

if we indeed play football. Because first of all, we, you know, we use this down. We use this as the Baker Mayfield explanation why he's going to be fine. I've seen it before. Okay. We said that with Mayfield. Well, then why can't we say the same thing with Carr that I know it's been. a few years in the rear of your mirror, but he's still a, you know, I think he's 28,

29 years old. And I think what they've been building in Oakland and now Las Vegas is an offense that ultimately can really take a step up here in year two with Gruden. And I speak not just of Henry Ruggs, the Alabama star wide receiver, who is the first wide out off the board in the draft. But you kind of look at the roster, Josh, Jacobs, who probably should have won offensive rookie of the year last year, Tyrell Williams, who is a very solid receiver. Hunter Renfro, Greg, you know, I know Greg's had his issues, but he really made strides as a first year player.

Darren Waller broke out as the most productive wide receiver in the league just about last season. I think that with Gruden, year two, car year two, Mike Lennon, is he still the guy installed as the principal backup there? I think that was good for the head of the headset space of Derek Carr, who seems like a guy who could be a little bit emotional and maybe would be negatively impacted by, like, Cam Newton on him. He's got Marcus Mariotta there who Mike Mayock, you know.

Mike Glennon is in Jacksonville. Thank you very much. Mike Lenin's still recovering from the fire he took from Akeem Hicks over the week. The concept that the backup can be too good and it makes your starter sad. It could have been another hill that I would have died on. well i i believe that though i think some guys are mentally tougher than others and um car i'm not going to call him not mentally tough but he's somebody who reads everything and sees everything um so anyway put it together i always thought the car had a quality skill set and i just like him in year two in this offense with better playmakers around him i think the raiders are going to be better this year i really think they have a chance to contend and i'm not saying he's anything close to patrick mahomes or um Lamar Jackson or insert QB here. I just think he's going to put up numbers that it's going to be like,

remember when like Jared Goff was getting a little MVP buzz a couple years ago? And it wasn't really serious. But it was like, well, you can't deny the fact that this team is in first place and he's putting up huge numbers. That's kind of what I mean by MVP buzz. Yeah, it's already happened for Derek Carr. I love when people bring back that season 2016, I think it was when it's like, hey, it's like Derek Carr was in the MVP race.

Yeah, like if you weren't watching the games, he was. wasn't one of the five best quarterback in the league that year either. That's important. That's a distinction that I'm making here that I don't want you to think that I think he's going to be actually worthy of an MVP selection, but he's going to be putting up numbers that are at a Pro Bowl level that he's going to be helping this team.

And people are going to be talking about, ooh, get Marcus Marriota in there. I think there are cars going to be not good, but very good this year for the Las Vegas Raiders. And I'm ready to live on that. Wow. I think you're not. I think it's fair to say. that there aren't a lot of people, you know,

crowding your body while you lie out on your, you know, Matt, sunning yourself on that hill. There's not a lot of, uh, Raider nations there with you. They're all in the, you know, they're all in the casinos. That's fine, but I mean, they are, I don't think we're looking at Raiders fans as the acid test of whether this theory works. I'm sure some Raiders fans are wearing masks, Greg.

Right. I would like to know what Derrick Carr does that is special. But, but I, do I think he can have a good season based on what's around them? Yes, and I think it's probably contingent on what's around him. I think to be in that MVP conversation, I'd have to go look. Maybe I could pull up the DVOA from 2019. The Raiders were tab. Second to last in terms of defensive DVOA.

They're going to need to be better if we're going to be talking about the Raiders, which would mean we were talking about Derek Carr on the defensive side. I thought he had an okay year last year. they couldn't stop anybody. They weren't a very super watchable football team other than that. But I could, I mean, like you said, Mark, there's a few people there. Like, if what Dan is saying is that there's this 2015 Andy Dalton possibility, yeah, I could see that kind of season for Derek Carr.

We put it on it this way. I would not be stunned if we're talking about come New Year's Day, Derek Carr. You know, 4,000 yards passing 32, 34 touchdowns. Interceptions are low because he's always been good at protecting the ball. So let's say about, you know, 12 interceptions, a pass rating around 100, that type of year that maybe on paper looks better than what a football head actually believes about him as a player. But when you're talking about the MVP, as Mark points out often, almost as often as he talks about COVID-19 and tracking that disease, is that it's narrative. driven and this idea that the raiders are head into the playoffs and cars come off as best season ever i just see that i see that all as possible that's it that's my hill

i didn't know you were so passionate about derrick you know i see does it come off as passionate or just that's kind of just the vibe of getting if you're willing to die on derrick are than you guys i always know you have to find a hill where 25 000 other people aren't right well you have to be willing to die it's it's tough to thread that needle of like he gets MVP love but he's actually not that good and um he you know he's he's great but he's not mentally strong enough to deal with like a decent quarterback it's a little needle here you're trying to thread yeah you put Derek Carr like in a position to die on the hill with like the strays you is going to have an MVP season like you know like Greg ever resurrected his QB index it would

be, Greg would have him as number 10 at the end of the season. Okay. You know what? I thought, you know, West might be taking over QB index this year. There, that might be some breaking news for you. We'll see, though. Oh, some buzz? Some sources saying that this year.

Good. I sat down West last year, and I said that should be something you're doing. You know, I feel like I should take some credit for that. Well, that's, that turn quickly. Mark your turn. Well, I also believe that the narrative-driven aspect to football is stronger than ever, and especially with these awards they hand out. But there are times when it makes sense to give someone an award,

when they've done something remarkable. And I am talking about, I am telling you right now you are willing to throw sandwiches this way in reverse of me, that the coach of the year, give me a break with Bruce Ariens and all. It's everyone's already got all these awards. Just handed out is going to be Zach Taylor of the Cincinnati Bengals. Whoa. You're dying on that hill. I'm living on that hill because I'm going to tell you something else that's going on here.

They say the fall of a corpse is over sweet. Well, you know, you want me to pick something that half of America agrees with or do you want something? I want you to pick something you believe. Follow the exercise. Well, I'm starting to believe it more and more. And there is the paranoia. No, you really want to say that's a man. Can I speak for one minute without Greg and Dan interjecting 14 times with their own...

I won't you offer your opinion now, Dan and Greg. Get it out of the way. Okay. Well, it's just... I have no comment. I love this hill because previously you've kind of been on the... Can anyone in America name Zach Taylor? Can anyone tell me anything that he did for the 2019 Bengals?

As I continue along with my explanation, the narrative is perfect. Because instead of everyone just saying, we know that Bruce Ariens is, he's won it twice. He's going to go 12 and 4 with the bucks. It's a nice story. And just give it to Bruce Ariens or give it to fill in the blank. Oh, give it to John Harbaugh. Just here comes someone that if I had to ask any of you to write down the defining trait about Zach Taylor right now, you'd be lying if you wrote anything.

You have no idea who he is. Now, the number one thing that helps a team that doesn't have the best coach win coach of the year is a worst to first or a worst to playoff scenario. They are 2 and 14 a season ago. The team was, I mean, they made vanilla look like the most exciting flavor at the ice cream stand

if that's where they're selling the ice cream. So now you go 2 and 14. Joe Burrow is going to come in. Part of these are there some contingencies here. Oh, this coach you had to deal with. with, you know, getting a rookie quarterback ready during a corona time. And I know everyone says we're going to roll back into these complexes four days from now and everyone's going to be sweating on top of each other.

But we'll see how that plays out. There may not be quite that easy. He's on top of this stuff, guys. There is a roster. The Bengals roster, both sides of the ball, is serviceable to quality. There is, if you look at their offense and I have some issues with the offensive line, you could look at a team that with seven playoff teams, yes, the Bengals, could hop scotch a team like Cleveland that is just as a shaky deal as we,

and part of me, real fear is I think that the whole Joe Burrow Bengals thing might just simply replace all the Browns hype. And then the Browns could be a big mess from a year from now. The Bengals could sneak into the playoffs. They go 10 and 6, 11 and 5. Zach Taylor along the way will have all these fluffy think pieces written about them, probably by some people we know, maybe by me, who knows. And then by season's end, he is the,

the perfect candidate to take a 2 and 14 team with the most exciting rookie quarterback that we've seen in a long time. They go 10 and 6. They sneak into the playoffs. Maybe they pull one of these Rex Ryan deals where that Jets team in 2009 played the Bengals in week 17 and a Bengals team going into the playoffs that slept. That jet team had one of the best defenses of the decade, though. They had a, they had a good running game.

I'm just saying, but not a lot of people were saying the Jets were a playoff team then. I'm not really comparing them to that Jets team either. It's a different deal. But I'm on a hill. You asked me to go on a hill. I'm on a hill with Zach Taylor and a playoff Bengals team. I don't see any of you hanging around. Not next to me.

I'm concerned that you're going to die on the hill like of starvation. There's not a lot of infrastructure on this hill. And I don't know that there's going to be a lot of people that come to fight you. And then you could kill them and steal their rations. Well, that's fair. This has been a year of movements, of polar shift, of change. And the Bengals have been the most boring thing in professional football outside of the Detroit Lions for a long time. And it's all going to change.

And the narratives, you're not going to even be able to handle the narratives by late September. You're not going to even be able to handle them. I hope you're right, because that would be cool for Cincinnati to be good at football again. And my biggest concern in Mark, you and I, both fans of franchises that have been historically inept, especially in the last couple of decades, Cincinnati is right in that group. So typically these organizations don't have these like eureka moments where all of a sudden they go from zero to hero. And for that reason, I have concerns that Cincinnati will be the feel good story just because a lot of these. Bad teams that aren't run well tend to stay that way for a reason. But you are right in what you're saying about there is talent on the roster.

And the quarterback could be special. Zach Taylor, of course, as we've talked out on the show, is a complete unknown. I like him, though. The only thing about Zach Taylor is that when given a horrible team and no chance to win, his team won't win. That's what else do I know about Zach, yeah. He's a very tall man. He's about 6'3. He stands out.

Is he really? Wow, I thought he was like 511 or something. He, I like him. I've talked about it, but when we did that coach's breakfast, I like the cut of his, you know, I like the way he handles himself. I think he, I could see how he could walk into an interview room and impress everyone. He does, he's not ostentatious, but I think he's confident in what he does. And I think we've talked about the talent around Joe Burry is awesome. But they remind me a little bit of the Browns in that a terrible offensive line without really a plan to fix it could ruin one of the best skill position groups in the league.

And I think the Bengals could be that. I mean, if you look at their top six, seven skill guys and their receivers, it's awesome. And Joe Mixon's playing awesome, too, and Gio Bernard. And, like, but they have a pretty bad offensive line that they're just hoping they get, you know, a top 10 pick and Jonah Williams back. And everything, everything's fine. I see, like, way, it's nighttime on my hill. And, you know, about three miles away. There's a little campfire burning.

And Greg is a little sleeping bag out there. And he's making his way up to the hill. He's camping out and larger. Here's where Zach Taylor fits. You're right. It's like, there was no room on my hill. It was overpopulated. Voters love the team that's not really that good, but wins nine or ten games

and giving that coach of the year over just like an awesome coach. Like this is how Dick Geron won coach of the year. This is how Jim Haslett won coach of the year. This is how Matt Nagy won coach of the year. Mike Smith, you know what I mean? Like that there's a lot of those types of things and then they fall right back. And like you could see that if they are able to somehow. scratch out 10 wins.

They're going to need the defense to do a lot. And you know what's a good thing about these hills right now when it is quiet, when the sun goes down and you're alone with your thoughts. Because of the COVID, you want to try to look at optimist's viewpoint sometimes, you know, a decrease in pollution. We could see those stars in the sky. Yeah. We are the virus.

All right. Good conversation. Nice talk. Everybody. Really good stuff. Hey, Ricky, where are you at? There's you. Hey. How are you? How's life? It's good. How are you guys? Great talk today. That was nice. Talk, good combo. Good combo. What's going on West Hollywood? We're still taping. We know that, right? Yeah. Oh, you are?

Yeah. West Hollywood. Yeah, it's cool. Did you see how many people showed up to Hollywood yesterday? It's, It's so awesome. We've got to keep doing it. Stuff's happening. And it's so great. It's jam-packed.

Erica. It's time to spin the wheel. The wheel of team. As we've done every week for about a month now. We are picking one team to talk about on the Wednesday episode of the Around the NFL podcast. Last week, we did a deep dive on the Tennessee Titans. We've also talked about the Giants and the Cardinals. And now, Claibon, we're going to spin the wheel once more.

Where does this rank in terms of, like, greatest moments of your broadcasting career? It's up there. Probably, like, there were a few, like, Jerry Jones statements that I had to read in their entirety. And I died a little on the inside. Those are all in the top five. This is number six. The best thing I think we talked about on this podcast, but Sessler and I, when we were working on the edit news desk, when you had to transcribe, nobody better than transcribed then from Jarrah because he talks so slow and deliberately no problem getting every word

of a statement from well but to be fair dan he also um if you and i wonder if this is if patrick has noticed this when you read jerry jones begins a thought and then he'll branch off into another thought mid-sentence and then a third thought and a fourth thought um and never really circle back around to close uh to put a pin on any of them so transcribing it feels not unlike um a dangerously uh potent acid trip right there in the middle of the newsroom it's a word salad vortex all right let us turn the wheel rickie let a rip whoa they are the Las Vegas Raiders how about that's interesting huh so the Raiders are the next choice um on are the next selection in our ongoing series.

How about that? We got to think about who do we want to talk to connected to the Raiders. That will be... I'm sure our old friend Mike Mayock would want to jump right on and spend 20 to 25 minutes with us. Yeah, you know, Mike, he'll come on. I mean, if Claibon can do over an hour, you know, right after the birth of his daughter here,

I know we can't be popular in your house right now as we continue to honk on here. Mayok can come on, please. Yeah, if I can shirk my responsibilities as a father, they're the husband, then why can't Mike Mayock jump on a podcast? All right, Ricky, that is our official ask out to you as our producers to reach out the Raiders organization to get Mayock, and if we don't get him, we'll figure out somebody else.

Patrick, yes, we can't keep you any longer because you came, you spoke, as always, a man, a bastion of both insight and integrity, and we thank you. Hey, I just, thank you guys. I know, like, there's a lot of people that, you know, have reached out to me on Twitter. And I know that there's a lot of people that wouldn't have reached out to me or even known I existed, if not for you guys, bringing me on this podcast to ramble occasionally.

And so I appreciate y'all as well. I think you are probably, you're definitely got to be sixth all time in appearances on this show. There's the four of us. There's Colleen. I would imagine. has to be fifth. And I think you've got to be sixth. Let's do it. Why do you put him six? Put him second because you don't count us.

Second. Yeah. You can't count us. That's your second. Isn't a done Rex Ryan have that Mark Sanchez tattoo like of his wife in the with the number six? I'm like, I could get that exact tattoo. And I think it would be kind of thematic about a relationship. Do that today, please. You can pass Colleen too. I think you're gunning for. He's literally trying to stand up.

Stop talking to him. He's like, Claibon is trying to get up. When Mark was on his hill, the Lauren and Malcolm came in here, and they opened the cat door, and the cat came in the garage. Well, the garage door is open, and I don't want the cat to escape. You have one dog and two cats or two cats? Take it offline. He's got to get out of here.

But, yeah, like, we're having a stare off right now. He's like, I'm going to go, I'm going to leave. I'm ready to get out of here. So we're going to let you go right now. Thank you again, Patrick. Great to hear from you. This is Dan Hansa signing off for Quiet Storm, the mailman, Patrick Claibon, and the great Ricky Hollywood from West Hollywood.

Until Wednesday. Hey, here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

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