NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Patriots-Cardinals Recap + 6 fun players on unfun teams (with Nate Tice)

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

Gregg Rosenthal and Nate Tice recap the final game of Week 14 on Monday night between the New England Patriots and Arizona Cardinals, covering the major injury news, key turning point in the game, and fun players who made an impact. Then, Gregg and Nate list six fun players on unfun teams.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Delayed handoff. Here he is again. And touchdown, New England, Kevin Harris is first. Hopkins three catches 49 yards. Over the middle, here he is.

Loses the ball, picked up by New England, and touchdown, Rayquan, that's Millett. Low snap. McCoy got hit as he let it go, and he's picked. Marcus Jones. And another takeaway by this New England defense. Move over, LeBron, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosch. We have a new big three.

It's in the NFL. It's the Patriots three touchdown. scores on Monday night. Kevin Harris, Rayquan McMillan and Pierre Strong. The Patriots are seven and six. They won a football game 27 to 13. That was mostly memorable in being forgettable and being depressing, unfortunately, because of all the injuries. I'm with a guest that makes me the opposite of depressed, though. And that's Nate Tice from the athletic, my friend, my football friend. Can I call you a friend, Nate? yes absolutely we've enjoyed dinner together we've broken bread that counts i think i think that's i think

that's friendship right there outside of just the football uh disclaimer but that i don't know i i thank you for let me enjoy that game uh you would not have watched that game as closely i bet if you were not doing this as i was watching the end of the fourth quarter uh doing my channel five coverage i was thinking many people have turned this game off because it felt it was a long game and it was sad because of the Kyler Murray injury. But maybe in April or May we'll miss having games like this, Nate. This is a game I watched, yeah, May or June. And I might give him myself like, oh, I got to watch like Jacoby Myers or something like that, you know.

But he didn't play tonight. God dang it. So that's not even a good one. Kyle Dugger. I'm getting a little shout out to Kyle Dugger. And I'm watching that. And then I'm like, yeah, this is great. And these are the games you miss because you're watching the last month of the season.

And then you don't realize like the like stir craziness. that week 14 can bring a Monday night schlock game like this. Troy Aikman sounded like he was ready like to like just quit on the spot. He was not he was not happy with that game. It's happened a few times and there will be flex games in Monday night football weeks 14 through 17 starting next year. Not sure exactly how that works. They're going to take it off Sunday.

But you're right, Troy was very frustrated with the pre-snap penalties, the injuries and everything else. These type of penalties, I mean, it's just, it's. is, I think it's still professional football, but this is, this is amazing. It's happened more than once, and I like the cranky Troy, and I'm sure the money he got from ESPN has made it all worth it, but the schedule just hasn't always worked out. The games have been exciting on Monday night. This one was not, let's start with Kyler Murray's injury, though, because the Patriots are

seven and six. We can talk about them moving forward. The Cardinal season is obviously beyond over at four. But Kyler Murray heard his knee non-contact injury. I believe it was the third play of the game. Looked a lot like the Zach Wilson injury in the preseason. But early reporting from ESPN at least is that there's fear that it's a torn ACL. We haven't gone that far at NFL network.

We'll see if that is an ACL, what a depressing end to a depressing season. and it does make you wonder about the kind of team that Kyler Muriel returned to, Nate. Yeah, it's, I mean, this Cardinals team needs a lot of help, not just in what they call week to week. You know, they do some fun stuff on defense, but just there's so many holes on this roster. And it's got a lot of aging vets anyway.

So you got that terrible balance of aging vets, but also you have holes. So you're kind of not exactly the way you want to build your roster. And it was a frustrating year for Kyler, like you already said. and Cole McCoy has already had to start games again like he did last year. Last year he was, you know, emerging, having some of the best stretches of his entire career. And then he gets hurt. Cole McCoy comes in and plays well.

And really it seems like since then, this past yearish and two months has been just real rough for the Cardinals franchise and for Kyler. And I don't know, his, the first thing you think of is just because of his athletic ability, which he has to win with. Kyler is kind of a little bit underrated as a pocket passer because he throws a beautiful deep ball and he can really attack. So it's not like the ACL just ruins his whole game, but it just, you know, it's, it stinks because it's another injury that is accumulating. And now he's, he's had a few throughout a short career. Thank God he already has been paid.

But it kind of just stinks. And it's just been one of those years for the Cardinals. And I can't believe Hard Knocks is actually covering it because this is like, just seems like a season from, from hell for them for now. I didn't watch the last one after, uh, I was disappointed how they glossed over the offensive line coach firing in Mexico. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that we were, I was here talking to a Cardinals fan, Jason Zumwald, about a different depressing Cardinals lost on Monday Night Football, and here they are back.

Look, Kyler Murray's only 25 years old, and I think Troy Aikman pointed it out. He played really well in that Chargers game, which actually gave me a little hope that, okay, After watching Colt McCoy for a couple weeks, moved the offense by making quicker decisions, maybe Kyler had learned something there. Because I know not many people probably were locked into that Chargers Cardinals game, but for three quarters, I think it might have been Kyler Murray's best game of the year.

And then in typical Cardinals fashion, everything went to hell in the fourth quarter. He didn't run as much early this season. They tried to avoid that. And then they realized they needed to start winning games. So he started running like crazy and very effectively. ends up with 415 yards in only 10 games this year almost as much as he did in 14 games last year and yet an ACL injury for him to me I hear what you're saying he's a great throw

of the football I put him in top five just in terms of like throws a beautiful ball yeah he does throw beautiful ball especially the deep balls no it's I it's uh that that charges game that's so funny brought it up because it felt like it was two franchises just trying the you know what's the saying you're the jaws of victory like they were trying to both like wretch it away like and that's what it felt like until herbert at the end did some amazing things and like built off of that game a little bit but kiler as a scrambler and it felt like this season it felt like last year especially he had more of that control of when to scramble when not to you know it's like he's doing it to take advantage and it felt like like you said that's a great way to

put it hey we need to win some games we just got extensions and this guy just got paid let's uh let's actually use him a little bit and that's the thing with Kyler is that you don't he's really good at avoiding hits he kind of has that Wayne Gretzky ability where he does avoid the hard shots but they they do accumulate that that's the thing especially when you have a porous offensive line remember that Rams playoff game last year it was just the poor guy was breaking had to break contain every single time so they have to fix the offense aligned if they're just going to have you know Kyle or just 10% maybe of his quickness and athletic ability sapped and that's not saying that I will but that's always a possibility when

you get especially knee injuries like this. Right. Yeah, of course I remember that playoff game. I will never forget the looks on my children's faces at their first playoff games ever. My daughter, a huge Rams fan, as Kyler just like threw the ball up in the air for a Rams defensive touchdown to make it 21-0 after about 20 minutes of play. And it was like Christmas.

And that was preceded a contract extension for Cliff King. a contract extension for Steve Kime and the second biggest contract in NFL history in terms of guaranteed money for Kyler Murray. I personally don't think Cliff and Steve Kime will be back next year. There's already been a little, there's been some rumblings that maybe the contract extensions

will not prevent Michael Bidwell from making a change. I think it's a possibility to look at for a Sean Payton team because I think they're an organization that would just hand the keys. over to Sean Payton and let him do whatever he wanted and there's the quarterback there but now you look at Kyler Murray and the point I was trying to

get to before was yeah he's not totally relying on his mobility but this injury is being suffered in December we just saw different players recover differently. Tredavius White is just coming back now. Right.

Robert Woods who suffered that injury early right before the season last year is, or no, he suffered in the middle of the year, you know, is slowly working his way back. Odell Beckham is not back on the field. You just don't know how it's going to be. And I think you have to think about two things. Number one, how are you going to handle 2023 until Kyler Murray's back?

And then more importantly, is Cliff Kingsbury and Steve Kime, the people to get the most out of him just in terms of the offensive scheme, Nate, which you're, you see. specialize at, and the personnel and ability to protect him. I've, anyone that's listened to the athletic football show, a little plug there is I've kind of gotten on cliff and just what this offense is. And the

it's somehow simple and complex at the same time and not complex in a good way. They do a lot while doing nothing. And last year, especially with Dion, I would get really frustrated. And this is just the classic air raid type of rules.

is that they'd have left and right receivers and, you know, DeAndre Hopkins on one side, AJ Green on the other. And they kind of mixed it up a little bit this year when DeAndre Hopkins came back, but then instantly fell away from that, moving them to the slot and everything. So it's,

and they don't run a ton of concepts. So there's a lot of times where just everything feels tight. They've actually had like a really creative run game, which under Cliff Kingsbury, which has been like a nice surprise, especially like short yardage stuff. But. And a decent offensive line considering the person,

until this year when everyone got hurt we especially last year like rodney hudson was a big boon for them but it's just yeah it's it's more yeah it was the sum of its parts kind of offensive line and that some of it was ball getting get rid of the ball quickly and or pushing the ball quickly you know both the kind of the that really helps out the offensive line a lot of movement stuff and what i kind of got would frustrated with with this offense is that they would use a lot of screens underneath stuff while also running the ball and i feel like offenses that do that are very redundant. You know, you have to attack short, attack the defense short by running it or throwing underneath throwing screens and attack deep. You have to have the layups and the threes

in your offense. So as an offense, it's just a bunch of short shots. And that's hard to win that way because you have to be brutally efficient over and over. And as you see tonight, tonight's a perfect example, how many pre-snap penalties this offense gets. You're not getting that efficient play that you need to run this super efficient offense. So I get kind of frustrated with it. I get it that they have the same terminology Kyler's used to since college and high school. But it's like, all right, Xanafell, a new coach will come in and be great

and actually put in stuff that actually works outside, just mesh and quick screens and all that kind of stuff over and over and over. Right. Kyler Murray was averaging 6.1 yards per attempt that is one of the lowest numbers of any starting quarterback in the league going into this game. I just think we've seen enough. And I think the offense has taken a step back.

And there's no way they're getting out of this Kyler contract. And I don't think they would want to get out of this Kyler contract. And they shouldn't want to get out of this Kyler contract. I think you can look at a way to try to maximize him and your overall team more by moving on. And, yeah, you mentioned tonight and DeAndre Hopkins, let's transition into the game. The game turned on a DeAndre Hopkins fumble by your boy, Kyle Dugger. So at least here, one of your guys did something tonight. Rayquan McMillan, a scoop and score.

Yeah, not one of my guys. Macmillan is not one. Dugger is one of your guys. Dugger is. Yeah, DeAndre Hopkins went for the Walter Payton, the one handhold. He does that sometimes because he has those big mitts. You know, that's how he carried the ball.

But Dugger just makes plays, man. That's why he's shown when I was watching that Patriots defense last year. I was like, who the heck's this 23 guy? Because one of my favorite, like, I'm not huge prop better, you know, even though I live in Vegas. But one of my like little sneaky bets every week or every couple weeks if I like it is tight end unders against the Patriots.

So like last week, Dawson Knox versus the Patriots defense. I took all of his unders because Kyle Dugger is like the tight end eraser when they run man coverage. He is just so good at that. But he's just as a nose for the ball. He's just one of the hard hitter. He's fast and he's smart.

It's a great combo. But yeah, that's one of my guys. And Dietrich Weiss has had a nice year. He got washed out. on a James Connor touchdown early in this game where he just got pushed into the end zone from about 10 yards away. That was a score that made it 13 to 6. Later on in that first half, the Cardinals had a, or rather 13 to 7. Later on, the Cardinals had a chance to potentially go up 16 to 7.

It would have been a 50-yard field goal or so. Prater had missed one from that distance earlier. Instead, they go for the fourth down. Jelani Tavai gets a hand on a little pass from Colt McCoy and Mack Jones and the Patriots offense end up getting three before halftime, tack on another three after that. And that helped turn the game around because I'm telling you, the Patriots won this game 27 to 13.

At no point did I feel like the Patriots were particularly the better team and it was one of the more depressing Patriots games I think of the last of the Belichick era that they won and yet they won the game. Do you agree with that assess, all of that assessment? As someone that's watched a lot of Patriots victories from afar, I'm not like chalking up all these like sad victories,

I guess that they've had. The only one I brought up to you when he texted me that was 2008 week one. That's probably got to be up there. So this maybe, maybe on the podium after that. Which screen pass did you like the most? Like there might have been 15 screens. They're trying to just construct an entire offense out of screens the Patriots are.

And the Cardinals for the most part were all over. And the reason why I sound frustrated and not as focused on the win is it just felt like two bad teams, a lot of bad ball, a lot of pre-snap penalties, a lot of mental errors. And two teams that almost were waiting for the other team to lose the game. And the Patriots are better at that, ultimately, and they have had a knack of at 1313, we were talking, doing this broadcast for Channel 5 that's like, this game is going to be won by a weird defensive score or special teams play, because that's the way that Patriots win games this year,

usually against backup quality quarterbacks. And it ended up being on a strip from DeAndre Howie. The Patriots do get a touchdown drive shortly thereafter, five plays, 63 yards, with a nice seam pass to Hunter Henry. And it's typical of the Patriots offensive season. Like, there are plays here or there. They're not a bottom five offense. They're just outside of that.

There are plays here and there, but there's almost no consistency. So as a former quarterback, people might not know, you know, you work at the athletic. You're a full-time media guy now for the first time ever this season. Congratulations. How's that going, by the way? It's great. I'm devolving in my outfits as I come on the show. I think the first time I'd quaffed hair.

And I'm getting worse and worse every time I come on. So it's good. Media life is good. Because you were in the league, in various leagues, coaching, front office, then business a little bit after league. But now you're full-time media. But way back in the day, you know, you were a player. You were a backup quarterback to Russell Wilson back at Wisconsin.

Give me your thought of this Patriots offense, like tonight and how it's progressed over the season. Even though they ran a ton of screens tonight, it's an offense that makes everything hard. A lot of the run game is bright at you in the sense that it's more of like a bully ball style, which I mean, it makes sense like who's coaching this offense and what they probably think of offensive teams. But there's not, it's a lot of just at you runs that I would usually have if I have a dominant offensive line. If I have the Eagles or even the Cowboys this year, I would be running this type of offense, but I don't have that type of offense a line. I think passing game wise, again, it's another offense that tries to run a little too much quick game for my liking.

And for Mack Jones's liking, apparently. And he was getting all fired up again tonight. I agreed with them. He was like run the ball. I know. I agree with them. Even though they run all these screens, it just doesn't feel like a lot of easy buttons are in this offense. It's not a lot of naked, sprint outs, just making it easy on Mac Jones.

You know, they put a lot on them, which is like, that's, it's really cool to watch. his pre-snap operation but it's sometimes it's like hey can you guys make it a little easier on him the dolphins game of week one is the one that stands out my mind like he he like sorts out three guys he gets two guys lined up his wristbands flapping up and down and then he gets sod in half uh like can we give you a little like uh make it like kirk cousins play action like kirk cutts been the league 10 years like can we just simplify it a little bit here here and there's what it is that's uh and that when he's there's a misconception about mac jones especially when he came from from Alabama. Everyone's like thinks Alabama ran this pro style offense. It was a shotgun heavy

RPO offense that like was just ding. I mean, it would all overs and crossers and deep sail routes, which are like corner routes. And it just doesn't feel like they throw any of those with the Patriots. It's all go balls and hitches, nuts stuff on the move. Mack Jones is very accurate. He's best at throwing stuff on the move. And this offense just feels very static. And he's more of a fluid thrower in a weird way, which you wouldn't expect. But he's super accurate. And when he's hot, he can really anticipate. But I don't think they ever get to do that. It's all stops and go balls, pin it on them,

which is more like big arm quarterback throws. Right. And people will see this game. They end up with 27 points. They did have that touchdown drive in the second half and think, oh, okay, maybe there's progress. But man, they had a million drives in this game. They had 12 total drives, which is a lot for an NFL game.

A lot of punts. He had the interception where he didn't really feel. feel the pressure. A year ago, I thought his pre-snap, you know, decision-making and his post-snap feel of the pocket and anticipation and accuracy were all like NFL starter quality. And he was a rookie quarterback. And when I've seen that generally, that means this guy's going to have a good career. And it seemed like he was on that path. And this year, I'm not a former quarterback. but you can almost see all the different things happening in his head. And when he goes back to pass,

the thing that's really telling to me and this happened a number of times tonight is like he's seeing the pass rush. He's not staying as patient. And they'll be like really good plays sprinkled in here and there. But he just doesn't seem comfortable or that he really has a total handle on what's going on out there between him and all of his receivers. no i i completely agree with that i think that's why i had you on just agree with me nonstop i'm just that the midwest sensibility the no the the what was very telling was when bailey zappy had his

moment of in the spotlight and also he goes in there and they like kept running all these heavy play action with two man routes and just make it a really simple with a big nice big pocket deep pocket for arm and then mac jones goes back and it's like shotgun quick game shotgun quick game run the ball did it and it was why it's like just i the fact that you brought that up that he can mentally handle it and and work in the pocket and that's what i agree like the question was always about mac jones's ceiling it was more of that like he's going to have a high floor he's going to do everything he can he's accurate he can work from the pocket and this year it's more like they're like no he can do that let's make sure it's everything's on expert mode as opposed to like just

once a while just you know help a brother out help this guy out i mean yes they ran like 20 screens tonight but just outside like you said the play action stuff the you know r pos like i i'm not a guy that's a huge believer in r pos but you still need them especially just to make everything else open up and it feels everything just feels tight in this offense and i agree with you it's he's really digressed and i i thought yeah i just didn't think that he this his play would i thought it'd always be safe like he'd always just have that kind of above average floor always and it's kind of weird because his super weapon is that pocket movement he's actually an under rated scrambler, which is

kind of like he's a very efficient scrambler. So like he knows what his tools are. And this year it just feels like he's just in the deep end and just can't get out of it. So they lost their offensive line coach, Carmen Bracillo to the Raiders. Raiders, right. And then you get the Patricia Judge

Poooo Platter trying to cover offensive line coach, quarterback coach and calling the plays would neither have the experience. The title's special assistant. Right. And they've won seven games, which is like a reminder to me, and I say this all the time, like, it's, it's not that hard to win like six or seven games in the NFL in the sense that like there's not that much separating

sometimes a six or seven win team and a 10 win team. And I think the Patriots have figured out how to beat bad teams for the most part and beat bad quarterbacks. And that's defensive game planning. And that's like a pretty good amount of young talent. And that's just been like navigating these potholes on the offense somehow, but that's not going to get you anywhere. The trick is, though, there are so many injuries in this game, we should mention

just quickly. It's why I think we're sounding a little bummed out. It's like, Kyler, three plays into the game, right? Then the Patriots' best offensive player, Ramandre Stevenson, got hurt, hurt his ankle, re-entered briefly, and then left. Jack Jones, who's been a terrific

rookie starting cornerback, left the game, and did not come back. The Cardinals lost Marco Wilson, who's one of their good cornerbacks early in the game. And Devante Parker left with a concussion early in the game. The best thing I've seen Nelson Aguilar do pretty much all season for this Patriots team was prevent the next play from happening when Devante Parker was not, you know, right that he had been concussed. And Parker still lined up for the next play. And Aguilar, thankfully, got that shut. down he did have a couple drops in the game i don't really have a question it's just like

hunter henry born agalar what what is going on here the the pooh-pooh platters exactly that's what all these receivers in tight ends even like hunter henry it's like i want them on other teams like i want one of like i want kendrick bourne with a better offense or or hunter henry with a better offense then it's like it's all these kind of threes you know it took uh jacobi myers being hurt and Parker being hurt for them to finally get Kendrick born on the field every down, even though he's one of their most explosive players. Well, he doesn't do what the coaches ask, apparently sometimes are mental errors. And they've just been rotating, you know, without Stevenson and Damien Harris,

they got Pierre Strong and Kevin Harrison, a couple of rookies who made enough plays. Pierre Strong had a 44-yarder in there. They found a way to win. For a while, it really looked like they would lose to. Robbie Anderson making plays and Colt McCoy and James Connor running all over them. They had more open receivers I felt like in this game. Like Cliff schemed up more open receivers than the Patriots could. Especially over the middle, like, which was I thought was where they really wadded up.

And at the end, like DeAndre Hopkins started to get his, but that's always the classic, you know, Patriots defense. They double the number one receiver. I thought it was going to be a bigger Hollywood Brown game, but it turned out to be the Robbie Anderson game, which makes sense. because, again, it's over the middle. They are, the Cardinals are comfortable being with a lot of sub, with a lot of receivers on the field. So it's testing your depth if you're the Patriots defense, even though they like to play a lot of DBEs and corners and everything.

It's still, you know, they're going to find a match up over time. But that's the thing. I actually thought this would be a scary game for the Patriots defense because of Kyler's running ability. Oh, I did too. Oh, yeah. And even at 13.7, it really took Marquis Hollywood Brown dropping a fourth down. That was nothing that the Patriots.

did that they could have been going in for another touchdown. It was the pre-snap penalties made some of those third and fourth downs harder for Arizona. And then at the end, to give the Patriots some credit, and they should get it, their past rushers, Josh Uche and Matthew Juden, have been fantastic this year, especially in these late closing situations, and they end up eating Uche with three sacks, Judon with another sack and a half. He's up to 14 and a half. He has a chance to set the Patriots.

franchise single season record with a few more. Who has it? I think it's TIPIT. I could check on that for you. I think it was like 18 or something fairly high. But Junon could also lead the league. And they're getting a lot of production out of their rookies, including Marcus Jones, who played a lot of offense tonight.

Yeah. Caught a pass. A lot of cornerback tonight. And they have some fun young players, at least, the New England Patriots. I love Uche and he's really coming into his own this last month. Playing against a lot of bad right tackles helps too. The opposite tackles really does help. But he's good because he's a different type of pass rusher than the Patriots usually have.

Like Judon's kind of like a super version of the long pocket pushers. Like Judon, I feel like all of his sacks come as a looper as he like gets onto some guard. He's a better version of Chase Winovich. They never have time for guys who are great pure pass. rushers. I don't know why. Uche's won. Like, they finally have one. They have a guy with some Twitch and bend. And it's just, I think Belchak's like, hey, this is nice. I don't need four of these pocket pushers. I can just get one guy that beats up on these tackles. But they still don't play them that much. He literally leads the NFL in pass rush pressure rate in terms of pressure

per snap. He has nine sacks in his last five games. Josh Uche, who has been supported heavily by Mina Kimes for a long time. She's really the only person that's been on Josh Ujah Island, and she's cashing in all the credit for knowing that Josh Uchay was going to be a star. I do have one more rookie I do want to talk about. Okay. Yeah. Can I throw them out there?

Please. Please. You forgot your new special team's ace, Brendan's schooler. Oh, my God. He's been great all year, actually. He's crazy. Slater's probably going to get weaned out, you know, and enter the. the next phase of his Patriot life,

you know, Patriot way, whatever that is, whatever, it's like the elves and nor the ranks, they get on dying lands. So Brennan Scholar will just, those two like as gunners,

like those are some of the highlights of the night where the punts, because those two are just like surrounding the ball. And they've done it all year. He's so good. Send out, you know, the pregame fits in it,

no one except for Brandon's schooler or whatever. is dressed crazy and it's always really good. Yeah, they're getting a lot of production. Tyquine Thornton, I think, could do some things. Cole Strange has played a lot. He's been up and down after a good start. Marcus Jones looks good for sure. Yeah, yeah. Cole Strange had some games, though,

where I was like, I started to do a cut up on him to be like, yeah, like this guy. And then like he have like a couple streaks or stretches where I was not as great. So I was like, I can't really be a highlight film because he's getting his butt beat. But he's going to be a good player. Like he, I think he was worth the pick.

I know that's a weird spot. take him and there's a big noise about a draft date, but he's going to be worth it in the long run. He also got benched at one point. Marcus Jones, by the way, is the only player in the Super Bowl era to have a receiving touchdown, a punt return touchdown, a punt return touchdown, and an interception in a single season. So he was out there a good chunk of this night covering DeAndre Hopkins in the slot, especially

after Jack Jones got hurt, and holding up well enough. He's a fun, he's a fun player. When he got that catch, I thought he was going to take it all the way quickly before we get to my list of fun players on bad teams. And we're going to keep it quick because, as always, this has gone on way too long. Seven and six, the Patriots are actually the seven seed in the AFC, which is crazy because they just don't pass the eye test. I just don't think they're a good team and I don't think they've improved. And yet they're in the playoffs right now. They have the tiebreaker over the chargers and the Jets for now.

their next four games, Raiders, Miami, Cincinnati, and Buffalo. Tough final three. Yeah. I am saying they finish eight and nine. They beat either the Raiders or the Dolphins and lose the other three. What's a you? That's how I would go about it. Yeah, I was going to say two and two to start.

That's a moral victory. If they finish 9 and 8, that actually might get them into the playoffs. Yeah. I kind of think that the Chargers are going to win three out of their last four. Their schedule is very favorable if they can beat the Titans this week. But they are the Chargers, so it's still. They tried. They even tried last night.

Yeah. I got to say, I don't want to see this Patriots team in the playoffs in particular, which sounds crazy. I don't know. I'm very conflicted as a fan. Like, I don't want them in anymore. Nice, though. I don't want them in these island games anymore. It's just like, I think after you.

Three night games in a row. After you've seen like the greatest stretch of football being played for 20 years, you're just like, this is bad ball. They did not deserve to win a football game tonight. I don't think anyone would disagree with me on that. Would you want the bottom of fallout or do you don't like this like dying, dying by like one guy every year? I mean, it would be even worse if they lost this game. Don't get me wrong.

Yeah. I'm glad they won. because the Cardinals were just like begging to lose this game. But they have a lot to work on. I think Bill Belichick will have to make changes in the offseason. I think it would be a moral victory to get to 9 and 8 and have winning records with Mack Jones both of these years and change the coaches and add some people to the front office and move out.

Just a couple things. Not the head coach. I just mean, you know, change the offensive staff. Yeah, but I think everyone's an agreement too. I mean, there's like just, there's no signs of life. Like there's not like where it's like, okay, it's coming together. Like, you know, like last year. It's like, okay, this defense is really coming together.

It's like, no. No, the offensive line. People think of them as a good running team. They are 30th in rushing DVOA since week seven. Yeah. That's a long stretch of time. 30th. I think they're like super high on like negative zero or negative yard gains or something of that sort.

Like, yeah, it's just a very, that's why I'm saying it's a very frustrating offense. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's just those at you runs are very just, uh, it's just you can't do without like a jimmy's and joe's advantage if you're not going to give them an x's and those advantage all right let's spin it positive the list the top six list today is going to be fun players on not so fun teams let's hear it fun players on unfun teams now josh uche fits josh chay is on that list or it could be if i need to get to a six i'm going to start with uh Jerry Hughes. Jerry Hughes has more pressures this year than Bradley Chubb,

Khalil Mack, and Josh Sweat just to pick three random guys. And he has less snaps than most of those guys. Jerry Hughes is 34 years old and he's never in pass-rots situations because he plays on the freaking Texans. Every time Jerry Hughes makes a play, I'm just like, I love you, Jerry Hughes. How are you still doing this? He was trying to kill his teammates, I want to say, against the dolphins.

When the offense had like a fumble for a touchdown and then pick six he he was like i gotta do this all by myself what are you guys doing jerry use has played fantastic this year that's a great call he'd be in a he'd be like the very good hall of fame or like the maybe even the great hall of fame like you're not there at the hall of fame but man he has been so good yeah holla very good um what a player and he's fun he's always flying around the field uh curtis samuel i've talked about a lot on this show i think he's quietly had the curtis samuel season everyone has wanted him to have every time i swear tell me if i'm wrong every time Curtis Samuel touches the ball it's a big play in the game he'll touch it six times

but every time it's a first down for like 14 yards when they absolutely need it it's like this talk that we've heard since he's been in Carolina like oh they're finally going to use him in the back field and then he gets hurt and then it's like well we don't want to give him too many touches when he comes back from his injury and it's like finally now you actually see it and haven't they uh Scott Turner's done some cool stuff with them I know the the commander's offense is kind of up and down but like you they do some cool stuff like they do some splitbacks with him and they do like they'll hand it off to him on short yardage but they'll run some like deep routes with him from the backfield it's it's creative he's he's I like watching him like I enjoy watching him in that offense because they're actually using him in an interesting way right you could argue that the commanders have graduated above unfun but I don't know I'm not always like psych to watch a commander's game but he makes it more exciting the same could be true about the Atlanta Falcons who At times this season have been fun, but they're also five and eight. I'm throwing out a surprise here.

I'm throwing Desmond Ritter on my fun players on an unfun team. They're going to... You're pandering. His presence makes them more fun. Yes, I know you're a Desmond Ritter fan, so I just was curious to hear your thoughts about Desmond Ritter entering a division race here at five and eight. I love Arthur Smith just, you know, dragged his feet to the by week.

I love that he stuck to his guns. He's... His curmogynist is awesome against, like, fantasy and everything. I've been loving it. I think also Arthur Smith is a very, very good football coach, but they'll pay dividends down the road. That's one of my takes this year. But having said that,

the Desmond Ritter stuff is one guy that I was surprised in this draft process how much I liked him. This quarterback class was not great. And he was the one that I said I would have taken a chance on if I was picking, you know, in that picket range or the early second. I think it's just that he is a competitive guy. He's athletic,

but he's also competitive and strong. smart and I think he understands football like in the preseason he was already handling protection checks which is always a good sign we talked about that with mac jones um seeing that any a third round rookie doing that's so great his accuracy can come and go but it's not it's kind of underrated i think i just think this guy was talked like that it was a huge weakness and you and i thought it was like okay it wasn't great it's fine streaky he has the problem that a lot of line drive throwers have that tannan hill and herbert i'm not saying he has that accuracy level but how they're throwing style is.

When they miss, they miss. It's a spray because it's just there's no touch on it. It's just a line drive. And I think that's his issue. Mike White is a little like that, surprisingly. Yeah. I figured he would be different, yes. And those guys aren't guppies.

They don't, they push the ball. So that's why you're going to see some misses because they're not checking it down every freaking snap. That's why. That's why I liked him is because he was progressing from the pocket. He was a good athlete that didn't, he used his athleticism last. That's why I liked him. And on top of it, I just heard that just great teammate, like just psycho competitive, which

those are the guys I want to take a chance on. I'm excited to see this. I think there's going to be some opportunities in that offense, even with Kyle Pitts heard. All right. I was pandering by throwing right around this list. But I think he's entering a good situation. Yeah. I actually think the offensive line is good.

The running game is good. And the schedule's okay at New Orleans this week. Then at Baltimore, which is very challenging. Then home for Arizona in Tampa Bay. some pretty tricky defensive coordinators to be fair throughout the rest of the way Vance Joseph, Todd Bowles, Dennis Allen and Baldwin. It's not easy, but I think the situation

in terms of the running game and the offensive line and I think he'll be a bigger part of the running game that people think I'm looking forward to it quickly because we really do got to go. I like Draymont Jones on the Broncos. He's been playing well all season maybe like a top 10 interior rusher this year. Absolutely. I like the Jones.

DJ Jones and Dreymont Jones. DJ Jones and Isaiah Rogers is a guy I'm going to throw out on the Colts who's been playing really well at cornerback, probably not getting a lot of love, but having a nice season I read as they Roger. And just to go out with a controversial bang. Oh. I'm going to say Mitch Trubisky is kind of fun to watch right now,

just going total yolo every time he's in there. I at least like that he's using the weapons that they have. It doesn't hurt me that he throws these interceptions. Right. He had like five big time. throws in that game if you watch that game and you took away the interceptions you'd be like wow this is some entertaining football so that's a fun player on an unfun team for right now i love it that that's exactly how he played this weekend after after picky got hurt was exactly how i thought

the tribusky experience would be with the steelers just let him run around a little bit just let them you know go have some fun out there that's so much better than you see in a guy turtle up in the pocket you know just let him run around just trying to throw something deep now i totally agree with that one I, although when you saw a stateline flash up, there was a, you saw the turnovers also flashed up as well. I watched every snap of that game and two of the interceptions were bad. One was a great play by Queen. But he, I think it was actually better than he was in Chicago where like the quality of the good throws were quite good. And it's fun to see George Pick and Deonti Johnson actually being used.

Nate Tice, good to use your talent here. I've kept you too long. You're a new father. How is that going for you here? you're not sleeping how old are we talking uh is the baby he's a month a month old i feel i feel bad for even having you on the show you didn't you didn't take any time off how did that go over you just like we're back on the athletic podcast that week essentially like days later i took a week off yeah so we it was by he was overcooked you know it was like he was past due the due date

And so I had this whole planned out. It was great. I'll basically take a week and a half off. And then I can just do the pods. And then my wife, he had understood it. She's like, I know you want to do the Sunday show. I was like, I do. I don't know if I'm able to sit there.

So, yeah, I only took two shows off and I went right back to it. But it was because he was overcooked. He was well done. So, yeah, but he came out of nine pounds. He was a hefty boy. That was, but yeah, he's gigantic and he's awesome. I mean, he's not like a filet, petite filet here. What does that matter in terms of how much time you're taking off that he was

overcooked or not no it was it was just how i had it played in my head i thought i was going to take those shows off but it turned out those were before it all happened so i didn't really get the afterwards but no i just i just love doing the show that's that's the excuse i'm going to have i don't think i could sit on my hands and not do a podcast after i'm sleeping right now you're honking loudly in your home it's you know getting late here in las vegas is he's asleep right now he's a sleep he's a good sleeper so that's good all right that game would probably yeah i just Show him the first half. I know.

And he was out. Fun to have you on, Nate. We will do it again. Yeah, everyone check out Nate and Robert Mays and all the guests Robert has on throughout the week on the athletic football show. We'll be back on Tuesday. Colleen Wolfe will be in the studio. We got a special guest who used to be on the show quite a bit back in the day. So that's a little teaser for you on Tuesday.

And then we move on with the preview show, the Friday. fun show and it rolls on and on into week 15 for Nate Tice Justin Graver behind the glass I'm Greg Rosenthal see on Tuesday

he'd the call Hey the call Hey everybody Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On move to six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective.

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