NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Patriots-Giants Week 13 MNF Recap, Drake Maye's MVP Chances and the AFC Super Bowl Hierarchy

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Drake "Drake Maye" Maye authored another MVP-like performance in the Patriots 33-15 win over the New York Giants on the Week 13 edition of Monday Night Football. Jaxson Dart played like a battering ram, but it was no match for a Patriots team that looked poised to make a deep playoff run. In light of the New England victory, Gregg Rosenthal and Nick Shook recap the night's action and evaluate the real contenders in the AFC.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Fiorio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies.

Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up? It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, the Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast.

Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars for the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment. About anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture. And I'll take you inside my journey through my 15, season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season, the season of more,

on the Off the Edge with Cam Joined podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Brought to you by Liberty Mutual Insurance. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Tight-end stat, left hollards there as well.

Henderson in the back field, a throw to the white. And the law is got by Kishon Booty, spilling across the sideline, but not before he scores a touchdown. Patriots, ballgame. You can start your buses now. I've seen it off.

That was Scott Zolak, calling game in the first quarter. It was 17-0 at that point, and there was a little part of me rooting for the Giants to come back in this game just so we could laugh at that call, but they didn't really come back. They lost 33 to 15.

There was also Bob Sochi on WBZ. I'm Greg Rosenthal. That's Nick Shook. You are nice enough to join us after a blowout on Monday night football live on YouTube. We appreciate you all, Shook, and we appreciate one of the biggest stories of this NFL season. We enter the stretch run. And yes, the Patriots have now got to their bye week here at 11 in 2 with Drake May as a real deal MVP. Favorite?

Not favorite, but candidate. Definitely a candidate. He's going to be competing with that guy who's 37 years old with a gray beard wearing number nine out in Illinois. But he's a candidate for sure. It is so early. I want to just push back without being annoying to every tweet that I see that's like, Drake May is the MVP right now. He can win, he should win.

Or this is the MVP. There's more than a quarter to go of the season. That is so much season for the Patriot. For the Patriots, you know, there's only four games. For the rest of the NFL, we have five whole weeks. But Drake May is right there. And I think tonight was a great example. If you haven't been watching him a lot this year of what he looks like,

what did you see out of the second year quarterback tonight? I mean, more of the same, but also the ability to make some plays, you know, when he's got to get mobile, he took off for some scrambles, which I think was lacking in the last few weeks. And it's a big part of his game. He is one of the better running quarterbacks in the NFL. I think that can actually be the key that unlocks their goal-to-go struggles, which they were like 50% are around there tonight. First time, you know, they run into a frustrating set of difficulties that ends up in a field goal.

And then the second time, they win the fade to Kishan booty. So it's like you see both sides of the coin with their goal-to-go situation. But overall, May, again, super accurate, 24 or 31 he finishes on the night. Nearly gets that 300-yard game. Gets it pulled from him because his touchdown pass to a wide open hunter, Henry, gets called back by penalty. But, I mean, he's comfortable. poised. No matter the stage, he's now played a primetime game on Thursday, Sunday, and Monday, he's looked good at all three. Like, he's just, he reminds me in a different way of what I thought about

Joe Burrow when I saw him in week two of his rookie season in Cleveland. And it was a prime time game, and the speed of the game never bothered Joe Burrow. And May has looked like that, basically his entire career, and especially this season. And this is a night in which he played behind an offensive line that was not at full strike, never bothered him. He's got incredible composure. And I I think he's the perfect quarterback to lead this turnaround, and that's why they're 11 and 2. Yeah, I was worried about what the offensive line was going to look like tonight, but ultimately the Giants didn't have a ton of pressure in this game. It was about a 25% pressure rate, you know, May stepped up.

I thought Troy Aikman, first of all, really enjoyed being on the Drake May call. Like, it's like, you know, young quarterback for Troy to just talk about and one that plays the game that the way he likes it. Drake may, you know, Troy made the point so often steps up. up in the pocket to kind of help his tackles out. And he took a couple of short sacks tonight, including Abdul Carter's first one of the season. We'll get to him in a second. But yeah, it was the variety of the type of throws. Like that is a great feathered touch pass to Kishan Bouty in the end zone. You saw him getting through his reads really quickly. That first drive

of the game, like he got to his third read on one of the third downs there. So fast. It's the outrout. There was one to DeMario Douglas. There was another to Stefan Diggs. For the most part, right on point. And then, yes, you do have the deep ball. As always, Drake May hitting it long at least once in the game. This one to Kyle Williams. Step back to Drake, the blitz coming.

May, moves up, throws a long line. There's separation there. And the past of Williams is perfect. Touchdown. Patriots. He caught it. I was worried he was he. not in. I mean, if he said this is one another catch with the feet. He dropped this in the bucket. What a throw by me. They show blitz. They fell. And then they have a leap blitzer comes.

They stayed at the pocket. Stayed with it. Balls in. There's one. And he dropped the tone there. Oh, that was such a great throw. And a maybe even better catch by Kyle Williams, who now has five career catches. One of them was that great catch he made on the 72 yarder against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, which is also a great throw. And that's a 33 yard touchdown. So very efficient. And I think he was only in the game because Kishan Bouti appeared to get banged up just a little bit on the play before, although he came back quickly. Yeah, it's just, it's a little bit of everything from this young quarterback. At one point in the game, and I believe he finished there, he was five for five on intermediate throws, 10 to 19 yards. And he would have had another touch.

touchdown, a 30-yard or to Hunter Henry, but that was called back by an illegal formation in this game. Comparing him, shook to Jackson Dart on the other side. What did you see out of the Giants rookie quarterback? Well, first off, I'm so glad that Bob Sochi and Scott Zolak gave Drake his flowers for that throw because on the Monday Night Football Call, it's all about the catch, which is a great catch. Don't get me wrong. But that is a perfect pass. And we have seen Drake do that all season. No matter the opponent, no matter of the situation, he has consistent. consistently just dropped in the bucket at a level that you typically don't see from a guy who's in his second season in the NFL, which is why he's having such a special year and why he's in the MVP conversation. But when you compare him to Jackson Dart, first game back after being out with a concussion for a few weeks, I hate to say this, but it's a great illustration of two quarterbacks who understand how to play within the pro game and the other one who can't break his bad habits or his old style of play. Jackson Dart doesn't protect himself. He comes back from a concussion. and he puts himself out in danger multiple times.

He drifts around the pocket trying to find an escape route or somebody open and sets himself up to get hit hard as he decides to slide and get down too late. He scrambles for on a, I think it was a third and 13. He picks up 12, or maybe he was second down. He picks up 12, but tightroping the sideline to try to get that last yard, sets him up to get absolutely leveled by Caden Ellis, which of course draws a sideline fracas and then results in a penalty on Theo Johnson for defending his quarterback.

Like, that is one of the hardest hits you're going to see a quarterback take on the sideline in the NFL, no matter of the team. Like, and everybody, Connor tweeted this and I thought it was hilarious, Connor Orr, he said all those people who were upset about Patrick Mahomes being a sideline penalty merchant a few now feel vindicated because DART just got leveled on that play. Get out of bounds, Jackson. Get out of bounds. That extra yard is not worth you sacrificing or at least risking your health when you've already missed multiple games because of injury this season. I understand you have a never-stay-die attitude and it's propelled you to this point in your crowd. career. But you're the franchise quarterback. You've shown enough for the Giants to believe in you. It is not worth three more feet to get blasted, absolutely leveled by Kate Nellis as you're seeing in this replay here, which then leads your tight end Theo Johnson to get Nellis's face

and sparts a little Donnybrook on the sideline. This is not worth it. Think about the long game here, please. It always makes the hit look a little bigger when the player just goes flying through the air. Man, I'm trying to think about that there was a hit on a running back this weekend that was just like that hit. And Christian Ellis of the Patriots, who's been a special teamer, Caden Ellis, of course, the great Atlanta Falcon. Christian Ellis, our first goal wolves, maybe favorite Philadelphia Eagle of all time. Was out there, you know, stealing souls tonight.

He also put Gunner Olshevsky, the Giants punt returner out of the game with an absolutely brutal helmet-to-helmet hit, which is legal. And yet it feels like it shouldn't be, which feels. forced a fumble, and that was part of just a disastrous night for the special teams for the New York Giants. To close the point on Jackson Dart, and then I'll talk special teams. Dart talked for two weeks. The Giants talked for three weeks after that concussion.

Yeah, that he's got to be more careful. He's got to take care of himself. We might adjust the play calling. You mentioned how he got, you know, hit a few times tonight. It was twice in the first six plays. The third play of the game was Hara Landry absolutely crushing him where the play was essentially over, but Jackson Dart didn't go down in the way that Drake May

usually just kind of takes the sack in the end. He does kind of give up on the play. He just sort of is wandering forward, not knowing what to do, and then ducks at the last second. And so Landry gets like a big shot on him, and that was three plays in. And then the shot you just saw was another three or four plays in. And yes, that was only 10.

plays or seven plays into the game, and yet it was already 10-0 because Marcus Jones was doing Marcus Jones things. I think it's time for who delivered presented by Uber Eats. Let's listen to the call of Marcus Jones, the all-time leader in NFL history in putt return average. You might say, oh, he's a pretty young player. You know what? You need 75 punt returns to qualify. You know what punt return this was in his NFL career, Shuki? 76. 75! Let's listen. Rugby player from Inverness, feels to snap, left foot to bump, left to right toward Marcus Jones. He's under between the hash marks at the 6th. He runs it left to the 15. To the 20, accelerates 30, 35, 40, beating Gillen off the hit along the near side 40, to the 30.

Marcus Jones, gone to the 20, to the 10, to the house. Touchdown, Patriots! Look at his place! You tell me they're not ready for playoff football. John Stadium is back. Oh, my God. The crowd was on one tonight. Yeah, the crowd was live.

I do think for Patriots fans, and I know they slash we are a loathsome bunch, especially in that stadium. But tonight, I think it being a primetime game, at home against the Giants, like, I do think it was kind of like a, hey, that was a rough five years or whatever it was, like the Patriots are back kind of night. And the fact that it started that way, with a guy, by the way, drafted by Bill Belichick, it almost kicked off kind of a night long celebration where it did feel like the good old days. Yeah. And you know,

I'm going to come to your defense here because you're right. A lot of people hated Patriots fans for a long time because out of jealousy. I mean, the Patriots were a dynasty. They were one of the best teams in the NFL for 20 years because of Tom Brady's career. They were always there. They were the team that you couldn't put away that they were always going to be in the conversation. They're always going to be a thorn on your side.

And Patriots fans acted as if, you know, they were entitled, right? Because they had Tom Brady, court, right? They had Bill Belichick as their head coach. They knew that they deserved or they believed that they deserved to always be in the conversation. And oftentimes they were proven correct. But this team is different. Not only did they just go through a rough four or five years without Tom Brady.

Not only did they watch him go down to Tampa and win one final Super Bowl and then watch the de-evolution, the downfall of Bill Belichick's career with the Patriots, but they also had to go through the abyss of the year after Bill Belichick with Gerard Mayo, who was chosen by the franchise as the replacement. They're in a good place now. They got their quarterback and they got a former Patriots hero. Vrable, who understands what it takes to win with the Patriots. I, for one, am on board with this.

I don't know how far they're going to go, but this is a likable team to me. And it's all because of Mike Vraelo, because you see in that play that we just highlighted there, he's running down the sideline with one hand in the air, one finger in the air, kicking the PAT, just loving life. I'm sorry, but as a football guy, that's a football guy right there who's just loving where he is in life right now. Well, one of our commenters, I knew people listening on Tuesday will be thinking the same thing or saying like, oh, poor Patriots fan. It was like four years, you know, like Brady was

still there through 2019. They won the division there. It's like, and now they are set up because it's not going to be this easy every season, but they do have Drake May. And when Joe Buck was saying, like, it's so easy to imagine him being their quarterback for the next 15 years, I could be proven wrong, but I do think May's ascension has been the single biggest story in the NFL this year, because I do think he's going to be one of those guys in the borough type of tier. I just don't see any reason that he wouldn't be because the mentality is there, the physical skills are there. The biggest question that he had was probably accuracy.

And right now he's basically the most accurate quarterback in a league. Let's fire through a few other things before we get to some questions. There was a question in the chat that said, at what point does more than Drake May's development matter for the Patriots? So that's a reference to what I've been saying on this podcast since they drafted him and certainly going to this year. The only thing that matters is Drake thing. And I still think that's true.

And that's why if they, you know, somehow crashed out, didn't win another game the rest of the season, that would be pretty brutal. If they, you know, go two and two the rest of the season or even one and three and crash out of the playoffs and Drake May actually looks good during it, then that's, That's all that. To me, that is all that matters long term. But I think the question is alluding to, like, okay, now that they've gotten this far, the expectations change. And I think that's absolutely fair. We're going to break down the AFC hierarchy in just a couple of minutes. And I do put the Patriots in with the teams that have a chance to make the Super Bowl. So I think this is that point. They're going to the bye week. They have the bills and the Ravens afterwards. And now it's a test of like, okay, there is a

opportunity here that might not be there every year. There's not superpowers in this AFC. You have a chance to go do something special, kind of like the last time people actually like the Patriots, the O-1 Patriots, the team that came out of nowhere. And so I do think it's changed. I do want to fire through just a couple other quick things in this game before we move on to the AFC hierarchy. That was who delivered, by the way, presented by Uber Eats. When football makes you hungry, get game day deals on Uber Eats, the official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL order now. Marcus Jones to the Pro Bowl.

He's been a great slot corner this year. Okay. Didn't have a great night at cornerback tonight, I will admit, and maybe hasn't played as good the last couple weeks, but has made a lot of plays this season and is probably the all pro returner. So I just, why are you making a face to me? No, no, no, I'm just saying, because I think Chimira D.K.

makes an argument for returner for that spot in the Pro Bowl. But I agree that the total picture of Jones playing corner to as well, like that also helps his case because you're right. He hasn't been good in the last few weeks or whatever. He's been okay. But I think back to when he picked off Josh Allen. Like he's made some big plays. There was like a two-week stretch where he made the same interception basically twice.

He's been a very good player for them overall. So that's the difference. And D.K., you know, considering where he is is, is a developing receiver with a bad Titans team, I think that he should get some love to. Maybe we put him at return. We got five more weeks. Well, there's punt return.

On all pro, there's punt returner and kick returner. They split it up. So maybe, don't they? Jones, an incredible punt returner. But for his size to play as well as he's played at Slot Corner, he's just having a career year. A great comment that I totally forgot about in the chat that Mike Ravel interviewed for the Falcons job.

Remember how mad Bill Belichick and Michael Lombardi were that they did not give him the Falcons job? And that basically Belichick spent a year on his media properties, and especially Lombardi, making fun of the Falcons and having a vendetta against the Falcons because they didn't hire him and they hired Rahim Morris.

How about the fact that Mike Rabel was trying to get that job? Mike Rable was trying to get any job in that first coaching cycle after he lost the Titans job didn't happen for him and didn't get the Patriots job either, by the way. They passed on him for Draud Mayo

and it worked out. Sometimes better to be lucky than good. You know who was not good tonight? Your friend, Katie Caldwell, your co-host on the great podcast. The only F1 slash NFL podcast. Gridiron. Check it out.

Twitch stream. I don't know. It's what it is. She points out that the Giants had the funniest kicking attempt that she's ever seen. It was a brutal night for the Giants special teams.

But Youngwee Ku stubbing his toe on a kick. It's so funny to watch. It's crazy. It's sad. It's so bad. All right. So if you're watching on YouTube, you can see it now, that Koo approaches where Gillen's

holding the ball, ready to be kicked. And I believe his plant foot was too far ahead. I'm not sure what happened, but as his foot comes down, his tail goes directly into the Gillette Stadium turf, and he just stops in his tracks right there because what are you going to do, try and just like halfway kick it? No, it's never going to get there. But it's just an illustration of, hey, how hard it is to kick a field goal. and also like how treacherous the the responsibility can be if you don't get everything absolutely right

because then you're just left that like in the in the play log it's jamie gillan sacked for a loss of 13 the funniest line in a play log you're going to see all season and it all is because the kicker stuff just tell that is unreal um watching it i'm in my kitchen my brother dean and his wife karen are here were with my kids. I watched the first half with them and then he came out to the garage. That happened. And they were like, what happened?

And then they show the replay. They showed Jackson Dart making that comment. I think he said, oh, my God, or something like that and rolling his eyes, everyone laughed. But my brother, who I think last watched a football game when the Patriots beat the Falcons in the Super Bowl, he's a musician, not really aware of what's going on with American football.

He's like, does that happen? often. And I said, I'm pretty sure that's literally never happened in a professional football game. I don't know if it's happening. It's probably happened in a high school game. I mean, I was like, there's no way Young Way Ku has ever done that before. No. I'm pretty sure that's never happened in a pro football game. And I've never seen it happen in a college football game. I mean, dry conditions, like, yeah. And it wasn't like he slipped. College football games are, uh, terrible place for kickers. I mean,

there's a whole college kickers thing because they just missed field goals and keep like that's never happened. But they never did that. If it happened, we would know. Here's what would happen. We would know. No.

I don't think it's what happened. Yeah, it would come to mind. It would definitely come to mind. But it's also like, unfortunately it just typifies Young Wake whose career. Because like he comes in with fanfare. He loses his job with the charters. He ends up with the Falcons.

He has a great bounce back year. He was great for like three years, bro. He was like a all pro kicker, wasn't he? And then he, Yeah, he was. That one really good bounce back year, and then he was pretty consistent,

and then he was inconsistent to start the year, and the Falcons cut bait on him so quickly that that told you all they needed to know about how they felt about him. And now he finds another opportunity of the Giants, and this is what happens. Like, it's, this one mistake does not define your career, but it certainly does tell some of the story

of what has been a winding journey for him as a kicker. It was painful because all I thought, because they've been looking for a kicker and been running through different kickers, is waiting for Graham Gano to come back, is that I really hope that is not the last field goal attempt of Young Wai Ku's career. No, it can't be.

That would be brutal. Guys, you bounce around. I'm sure you'd get another chance, but he also might get cut. Okay, let's go rapid fire. A couple giant's points here. Number one, Abdel Carter got let go, or got benched for the first quarter of this game,

and we have a comment, by the way, by the famous Will Gavin. The. Of Talk Sport and Channel 5. over in the UK who's become an international sensation saying I wasn't working on the game yet I'm still up at 4 a.m. Y to watch Drake May electric. I mean, and now you're up potentially till 4.30 in the morning watching us. Thank you, Will. A man who will do anything to get his name mentioned and get a little online light. I'm just kidding. What a way to think a great friend and a great

viewer he has the best pronunciation of commanders ever by the way let's just let's best pronunciation of everything abdl carter got benched again for the first quarter of this game because he didn't show up to a team meeting apparently or some sort of team responsibility that's the second time in three games with mike kafka so that's what i'll remember the mic kathka era for that in some gutless fourth down decisions tonight a night where i'm thinking like kofka's got i was going to have a big take and i still have it that i think kofka has a better chance to keep this job than most people think but I think you're going to have to have some surprising cool wins

or moments in it and to punt the ball on fourth and less than a yard late in the first half and then you gave up a field goal to the Patriots anyways and then to punt the ball on fourth and eight down two scores the game was reasonably close with like eight minutes to go and you punted there and of course the Patriots get back to where they punted the ball in about three plays because the Giants defense stunk all night the only reason the Patriots didn't score more is they kept

stubbing their toe and they couldn't run in the short yard. Just a little gutless by catholic. Stubbing their toe. You know what? I'm going to defend him for a second because let's consider the situation here. And I just looked up the next-gen probability or what the recommendation was. And the recommendation was go for it, but it was only by like a small percentage. I believe it was 0.5% or 0.5%.

You're trying to win a game here. You're trying to do something special. The only chance you have is to do something special. Okay. But, and you're right in order if he wants to keep the job. because you don't win the job, like Antonio Pierce once won the job with Raiders, unless you win games,

and they have not done that with Kafka, right? But also consider the situation. You are deep in your own territory. You have not stopped anything for most of the first half. The Patriots have all the momentum in the world, and they are ready to just finally knock you out for good. So if you don't get it on fourth and one, which you've already been stopped turnover on downs earlier in this game,

then at least you force them to go, I don't know, 50, 60, maybe even 70 yards if the Scottish hammer gets into it, which he kind of didn't. But what you don't account for is that your defense is going to, give up like 55 yards in three plays. Well, you could account for it if you've watched the game, you know. I guess that's fair. But I understood it.

And I said if they would have gone for it, there would have been idiotic and desperate. But again, the Giants have two wins on the year. They have to be desperate because not being desperate is idiotic in itself, right? Okay. It's one yard, though. And that's hard for them. That's fair. The 36-yard line.

My point is it just was not surprising that the Patriots were. on the Giants 19-yard line for plays later. Seven yards to Matt Collins, 15 to DiMario Douglas, a short pass to Remondry Stevenson. This giant's defense is just poorly coached even without Shane Bowen. And then, yeah, they kick the field goal.

By the way, the Patriots, I say this every week, though. Patriots receivers make tough catches. Mac Hollins made some tough catches tonight. I know Mark Hunter Henry had a drop, which is rare for him. But Stefan Diggs, you know, Kyle Williams tonight, Certainly, Kayshan Bouti, they might not beat you a speed score. They've got good hands.

Like, I've seen a lot of contested catches. That has helped the completion percentage. And then my final thing on this game is they should not keep Joe Shane. That's all. Oh, I agree. Why did they move the goalpost? Before the season, they said, you know, John Mara is on the record saying that wins and losses are going to, you know, that's what we need this year. We need to show progress.

And they asked how, like wins and losses that. Yes, we need to see it in the standings. And somehow they've moved the goalpost. They've won two games, and I don't think Joe Shane's done a good job. Start over. Yeah, what they did was they scapegoated Brian Dable arguably too soon because I think he finally got the quarterback that he could work with. And we saw signs of potential with their pairing.

And then they just said, we need to make a change somewhere. So we're going to fire our coach. But we're going to stick with our GM because we like what he's done with our roster over the last couple of years. And I pushed back against that because Abdul Carter is a great example of how far they still have to go as an organization. This was the can't miss guy in the draft. Everybody went into the draft thinking he's the best player in the draft,

the Giants get in the top five, and everything's dandy, and they trade back in for Jackson Dart. That's great. What has he done this year? Not much. Lack of professionalism, at least according to reports, him getting benched in the first quarter to the last three weeks. That's not good, which means did you vet him?

Or did you just go with, well, he's the best player on the board? That falls on the GM, not just on the coach. It falls on the GM as well. There's a lack of professionalism and accountability and preparation with this team right now, and it starts from the top down. So I totally agree. If you're going to fire the coach and blame him for everything, the GM that hired him and the GM that he was supposed to work with

to turn this team around should also be held accountable. And I felt like it was a half measure. If you're really going to try to put the Giants back on track toward being a winning football team, I hate to restart because I think continuity matters. But you're not keeping any continuity by keeping your GM there. You're just perpetuating a list of a routine, a habit of making poor decisions with their team further with the belief that somehow it's going to change with the new. new coach. I love that. And I do allow for the possibility that John Mara will change his mind.

He has before when talking about different coaching decisions over the years. So it could still happen. Carter reportedly was a guy that was maybe doing this during the dable tenure. And that was part of some of the whispers that you see from the reporters that cover the team that it was very permissive atmosphere with dable there and getting him out the door now they're trying to like get carter into better habits or capital is but i'm just i'm just making that's unfair because you talk about you i know and i get that but you move the goalpost with joe shame well you're also kind of moving the goalpost with with dable because think about the position he's in he's coaching for his job and in order to increase his chances of winning games to keep his job he puts his best players

on the field carter is supposed to be one of his better plays on on the team you got to keep him out I don't like the idea of it being permissive either because you've got to establish some culture and sense of accountability, but I think he was in a tough spot regardless. Pending that on him alone is not fair. Yeah. And Carter, to be fair, came in and I think you got three pressures in this first series. Yeah. Like, he came in and he was like, he had his hair on fire. He got his sack, which was really more Drake May sliding at the line of scrimmage. But Carter got it. But he got a couple other quick pressures in there. So I thought he played a pretty good game. And I will say. When Jackson Dart was running back and forth, back and forth during that two-point try that he eventually hit, it reminded me of a play in Drake May's rookie year, a rare victory. Was it his only victory?

Where he hit his receiver against the Tennessee Titans on an incredible two-point attempt where he is running back and forth and back and forth. It was just a guy showing that he's an athlete. And that was like the first, okay, Drake May, like, big time moment. And so maybe we'll think back on how this season ended. I don't think Jackson Dart has nearly the ceiling as Drake May because you saw it tonight. You've seen it so far. He's just not that successful right now as a dropback passer as a traditional, just like, you know, forget the RPO's. You know what, though?

Yeah. That works for Bo Nix. At least it does for the most part. That's why I'm saying the ceiling's not as high as Drake May, who I think always had every tool that you wanted. And I think Jackson Dart might not have that or it's going to take a little while. Yeah. But I do think Jackson Darts ceiling is pretty high, and I think he's looked pretty good as it were.

Hey, what's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. If you love breaking down football from every angle, you're in the right place. Every week on Move the 6th, Bucky Brooks and I dive deep into the game from the X's and O's to the front office moves shaping the league.

We kick things off with Brian Baudinger, breaking down what really went down. on Sunday. It is as good at timing, rhythm, offense as there is in the league right now. Then Rhett Lewis joins us for our rookie draft and coordinator of the week, where we highlight the rising stars and the masterminds calling the shots. DJ talked me into Arronday Gadsden Jr. He had a monster game.

Monster game. And you hear from the voices who actually build the game. GMs, coaches, and players who give you insight you won't get anywhere else. High standards and high care. That's the right combination. So whether you're studying tape or just love great football talk, subscribe to move the sticks on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, y'all, it's me, your man, M.G. Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Liorio.

And I'm Laquan Jones. If you're looking to win your fantasy football league, you need to tune in to the NFL fantasy football podcast. It's right there in the name. Every week, Florio, LQ, and I bring you the latest news from around the league. We break down every matchup, give you our analysis and advice so you know who to start, sit, drop, and trade to bring that championship trophy home. I just want to remind everyone how good Rishie Rice was last season

and these three healthy games. He was the wide receiver 2 in fantasy. I think Rishie Rite just goes off this week. The Chiefs come on a flip pass to Rice. This side, touchdown! Remindry Stevens is my sleeper this week. This is a matchup where I think I can slide in Stevenson into my flex position and he could deliver double-digit points this week.

Great takes the snap, hands it off. We're moderating running it right, and we're running into the end zone. Touchdown! It's never too late to turn your fantasy season around. Subscribe to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up? It's Cam Jordan.

I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, the off the edge with Cam Jordan podcast. Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars for the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment about anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture, and I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season, the season of more, on the Off the Edge with Cam Joined podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts. Brought to you by Liberty Mutual Insurance. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. All right, let's move on to this hierarchy talk. So, quick assignment, we're going to fire through this. quickly. We finished 13 weeks. The final four teams that have a buy are going to have it in week 14. That's the Giants and the Patriots and the Panthers and the 49. So we're at a nice little point

in the season here. I wanted you after this game because the Patriots are the number one seed in the AFC to break down your AFC hierarchy. And I wanted you to do it not by power ranking, just purely, who do you think has like the best chances they're a real chance to make the Super Bowl and how we're going to do this we're going to go one at a time it's too hard to go back and forth I want you to give me your entire hierarchy right off the bat top to bottom we're not counting teams that aren't going to make the playoffs it's an only team that you can imagine are have a real chance to make the Super Bowl you give me your hierarchy right off the bat and then we'll talk about that and then I'll go next do you want to do this by tiers

Yeah, give me your different tiers, start at the top. Okay, tier one, call me crazy because they're not currently in the playoff picture, but the Kansas City Chiefs are in there. This is in no particular order, but within the tiers. Kansas City Chiefs are in there. I'm going to say that the Denver Broncos are also in there because that defense is going to travel well. I'm skeptical of them, but I'm still going to put them in there because they've looked a lot better in the last few weeks of the Buffalo Bills.

Okay. And last but not least, the Indianapolis Colts. That's tier one. Tier two, we'll go New England Patriots, and then we'll go Houston Texans. And that's probably it for that one, because then I have questions about the remaining teams, which without keeping track of this, we'll go. It would be Jaguars, Chargers. Have you said the Ravens yet? That's going to be the Jaguars, the Chargers, and the Ravens.

Did I just say the Ravens already? I don't think I did. Because I have questions about all of them. The Ravens being Lamar Jackson just doesn't look like himself. The Jargers' offensive line and the Jaguars, they're very up and down. And Trevor Lawrence, you know that experience. Let's break this down here. Let's break this down.

So you have the chiefs, the Broncos, the bills, and the Colts in the top tier. And you have those four teams a tier ahead of the Patriots. Now, the Colts. ahead of the Patriots. The Broncos ahead of the Patriots. I've been kind of banging the drum that I think this Patriots team has some real shortcomings,

but I'm curious for why you think they are a whole tier below a team led by a broken-legged Daniel Jones and Boenix. It's not because of Mike Brable. It's because of the trench play. Losing Milton Williams is a big absence, and I think it was pretty apparent

early in this game against the Giants. Could get them back. Could get both. and Will Campbell back for the playoffs. I think it's a big could, but it's a big could. And I think that that's going to be their biggest limitation. It's that, and I hate to say this too, because the Colts don't really boast this either, but it's a lack of experience.

Now, I love Drake May, and I don't think that he's the problem when it comes to a lack of experience, but there have been so many new additions to this team. They spent so much money in free agency. They're relying on a mixed cast where, like, Stefan Diggs is one of your most senior members on the offensive side, and he's had a great year. But if I have to, like, put a lot of trust in them, I think that while I could see them in the Super Bowl, I could see them much more being a divisional round lost candidate with a really high upside going into 2026. But you can see in your mind's eye, myself, Jordan Roderick,

yourself in a trailer outside of Levi Stadium like we were last year doing a podcast and shook taking up like half the trailer. And we're talking about that big fourth quarter drive, good or bad. we won't decide who wins again, by Bo Nix in that Super Bowl. You can imagine that, or Daniel Jones. You can imagine that, but you can't imagine the Drake May one. No, I can't imagine the big fourth quarter drive by Bo Nix. I can imagine the big fourth quarter stand by the Broncos defense. And I can imagine the big fourth quarter march by the Colts riding Jonathan Taylor

in that offensive line to a victory and putting a game away that way. I'm not putting it on the quarterbacks. I know quarterback's the most important position in the NFL, but I think about the completeness of these other teams. and Denver's defense is, I think, still better than we even give them credit for and could win any game at any time. It's going to be close. Like, it's never going to be a blot.

It's always going to be kind of sloppy. It's going to be very much playing with your food with the Broncos. But the defense, I'm telling you, I know it's old school, but they win championships. We saw it with the Eagles last year. And the Colts are a more complete team in that I trust Lou Aniromo to get the most out of his defense. I would like DeForest Buckner to be involved. And I believe that riding Jonathan Taylor could be a key to success for them against a team that maybe doesn't have a great run defense and they get to the Super Bowl.

Okay. I think a lot of the commenters are wondering, like, why are the Chiefs in that first tier? But I'm going to go through mine now. Now, I disagree with you about the Colts. I don't disagree about the Chiefs being in the first tier because I just think they have a chance, like we're talking about chances to go to the Super Bowl. In this scenario, obviously, they got to make the playoffs. It's a little lower than some of the other teams because we know that the

Patriots and the Broncos are going to the playoffs, for instance. And yet, like, I do think I can see that route. But the reality is this is the most open AFC, maybe open conference that we've seen in a long time. And so I have a monstrous first tier. I think that's the way I settle it. In no particular order, I have the Broncos as well. I have the Patriots. If you can get, I put those two in, even though I feel less.

confident in those two teams because I think they have a really good chance of either being the one seed or the one in the two seed. That is a real advantage, especially being the one seed, getting to the divisional round. It all depends on matchups. I don't think any of these teams are great. And so I do think in the right day, the right matchup, those two teams could win a couple games. I do have the chiefs and the bills. The coaching, the quarterbacks, it's obvious. They're not playing their best. I just don't think people remember at this time of year just how freaking long these NFL seasons are, there will be a team that starts playing its best football in week 17. Yeah. Or 18. Or you know what? They stink going into the playoffs and then they start

playing really well, like the Bengals a few years back. Like they just have the components and I know there's some real structural problems with these teams, but it's such a weak AFC that like I can see happening. So I put those four teams on the same level with the Ravens because I still think this defense is playing well right now. And you just can't tell me that a defense and Lamar Jackson couldn't somehow find a way to figure it out. And so that's five teams right there. And I wrote down two more. I actually thought at first, and now that I'm talking it through, I don't think I can do that I'd put the Chargers and the Texans in there too. Because I really just think, here's why, Shook, it's not a good, it's not a good

AFC. Like, could the Texans defense be the best thing in the playoffs and you have a really great young quarterback who plays his best and beats a bad field? Could Justin Herbert go total God mode with a ton of skill position talent and a pretty well-coached complete defense. Hell, I'm putting those two in the first tier. It's a 17 tier. See, you just ruined the entire exercise because you just stuck everyone into the

first tier. That's the point of the exercise for me. That's the point of the exercise for me. You just ruined it. I appreciate your optimism because we did this exercise, what was it, six, eight weeks ago where we're like how many teams could we see making the Super Bowl and we put half the freaking league in there?

So I know you're an optimist when it comes to these things. But if we're going to tear them, you've got to have shortcomings with something. And I appreciate the wide open. AFC argument. This is valid. The Arizona Cardinals in 2009, was it? Lost week 16 and 17 by a combined 30, like 60 points.

And then they were one drive away from winning the Super Bowl. Like the Green Bay Packers were a six or a seven seed and they went and won the Super Bowl. We, like the Steelers made it as a, as a low, this is a year. I just don't, I just think anyone's got a chance. And I just don't think in reality there's that big a difference between this Patriots team and the Chargers or this Broncos team and the Ravens or a Bill's team that's not great and like the Chiefs or the Texan. I just don't.

We keep seeing it. We'll see it again Sunday night, Texas Chiefs. They're all around the same. So I shake them all up. They all got a chance. You got a win with the. Texans performance against the Chargers in the playoffs last year because pretty much everybody thought the Chargers were going to run away with that one and they didn't. The Texans defense

dominate them. That was actually the first time. But those two teams had no chance to win the Super Bowl or make the Super Bowl. This year, don't you feel different? I don't know. I mean, because it's wide open. That does make sense. But at the same time, it's a confidence thing. Like, who is the most complete team? And there is no perfectly complete team. I just see, like, the Chargers on a weekly basis still don't protect Justin Herbert. And I know we have all the faith in the world that you can throw them to victory. That's the reason against them. But everyone's got some reason.

And they get shredded again by that defense. Like, and boom, you're done. Which is why you don't belong in tier one. If I can identify one matchup where I can see you just getting dominated, you don't belong in tier one. But see, everyone's got that matchup. I think that's a great point, Shook. And the weirdly, like the chiefs are a team that are pretty balanced.

Like, I think the, you know, the bills give them problems in the regular season. but I do think matchup-wise, a team that could really run the ball on them would be dangerous. But then you look at the teams that are making the playoffs in the AFC, and it's like, who is that really? The Chiefs? I mean, the bills, maybe the Colts.

But the Colts, you can't tell me their offensive line is so great when I've seen their interior line totally cave in on Dana Jones two games in a row. They're not pass-protecting well in the defense's blot. And so, like, do they get a matchup where they can hide those. I do think it's just going to be a year where it all depends on the matchups.

And there's going to be kryptonite for different teams. And we won't know totally until we get there. But like the Broncos aren't some perfect team. They almost freaking lost of the commanders last night. Yeah. And that's the problem is that we have no idea who these teams are week to week. Like it's made picking games nearly impossible this season

because even on the NFC side, Bryce Young looks terrible. One week looks great the next. And that's totally true for all of these AFC teams. There's nobody who is consistently effective enough from week to week. They've lost certain matchups. And it makes it all very unpredictable, which is why it builds the intrigue of the NFL,

which is why it's the best, most popular sport in America and why everybody's going to tune it? Dean in the chat says, y'all wilding out with this AFC hire. Thank you, Dean. I thought Shook was out there for having the path in tier two. And now 60% G has half the conference in the top tier. Hey, guys, life is unpredictable. Sports are unpredictable.

This NFL season has showed us that actually it wouldn't be that big of a shock for any of these teams. I like give them all about a 15% chance. And there's home field doesn't really matter. Pedigree matters, but that's why I'm bumping up the Ravens and Chiefs and Bills into the top tier. Because they haven't really earned it otherwise. By the way, I do have a tier two. And that's the other Initially I had the

AFC South teams All three of them in there But now I've bumped the Texans up My tier two is the Jags And the Colts Yeah and I was gonna say I can't see them going through three weeks And then the Steelers

You're not even on my list I don't care that you're six and six No No they're not in the conversation They're not in the conversation But basically what you're telling me Is that I should just prepare for We're gonna fly out to Santa Clara

In February And I'm gonna meet you and we're going to be on set and we're going to be breaking down Jags, Bears. Well, no, see, the Jags, the only way that I can be proven wrong is if the Jags or the Colts

make the Super Bowl. I do think the fact that Daniel Jones cannot move side to side very well and that their defense is just like meh. I mean, there's a lot of mad defenses here. The Patriots are one of them. But Daniel Jones not moving side to side plus meh.

I don't like their chances. So I'm putting the Jags and the Colts in a tier below. So the only way I can be wrong is if one of the two of them make it or the Steelers. Otherwise, you know, one of my teams is going to grease and the skids. You know, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Hopefully this show has been more than fine.

Thank you to everyone who has been tuning in. We love you all, especially Will Gavin, who's still in the chat, making it happen. I'm going to be back in the studio. Hit the music, Chris Bobona. Great job, by the way. every Monday night. Next Monday night, by the way, really good game. Chargers

Stealing. I mean, sorry, Chargers Eagles in a game that Eagles are really going to want and a big test for that Chargers offensive line. Tuesday on the show, myself, Colleen Wolf. I can't freaking wait. We will see you that.

Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sundays. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Flaureo, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies.

Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up? It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, The Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars for the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment. About anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture. And I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season, the season of more on the Off the Edge with Cam Joom podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday

on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Liberty Mutual Insurance. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.