NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Pete Carroll and Mike Vrabel Surprise Exits, ATN Awards

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

In a room full of heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Marc Sessler, and Patrick Claybon get you caught up on news from around the league including Pete Carroll no longer being the head coach of the Seahawks (01:55), the Titans firing Mike Vrabel (12:38), the Bears sticking with Matt Eberflus (27:49), and turmoil in the Giants front office (36:15). After the break, the heroes announce the winners of the 2023 ATN Awards, starting with MVP (56:10) followed by Offensive Player of the Year (01:00:05), Defensive Player of the Year (01:03:05), Offensive Rookie of the Year (01:09:48), Defensive Rookie of the Year (01:12:50), and Coach of the Year (01:16:50). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Mark Sessler, and back in the fourth chair. The dude, Patrick Claibon. What's up, what's up, guys? Good to be here. Good to be here with you. It's great. Connie was supposed to be back this week, but she got pulled into a type of nefarious Park Avenue event. Why is it nefarious? I mean, what is she? She's hosting. some sort of mysterious event in the Big Apple. If it's costing our show at Connie Fox Wednesday, it's nefarious to me. Yeah.

It's not costing it. What? Well, sure. We've got a whole different show, Claibon Wednesday. Well, let me transition to that cell. Mr. Contrarian? Yes, we don't have Connie. But the fact that we can have Patrick here is even.

Oh, well, thanks, guys. What a blessing. Not that you were a backup. But we announced previously Colleen would be here. So it'd be weird just all of a sudden, Patrick is here instead. We've got an incredible stable, and we're just, we're versatile, and Patrick proves that. We keep it pretty tight in terms of who's in the regular fourth chair. It's a hallowed spot.

It's playing the role of Colleen Wolf today is Patrick Clevely. So it's that. Patrick's a theme song. I think it's time. Do we have any, have any been sent in? Do we have any Patrick? I don't have any Patrick, or you put out a formal request. Here's a formal request.

Get up our vibrant Gmail account. Yeah, what is the Gmail account? Is it, is it the ATN? I think it's the ATN. podcast, or let me, you know what? Every one I should probably know. There's literally like an Abbey Road of Patrick Plybant songs just being sent to the wrong email address.

All right. While our producer Eric works on that, we have some breaking news that landed just as we're about to start. And that's the way I like it. Because too many times we got banged the other way. We finish recording and then oh, Pete Carroll got fired.

Well, not this time. The Seattle Seahawks are moving on. from P. Carroll as their head coach, reported by the Pellraiser and elsewhere. He, as of right now, the way it's being spun, and there's a press conference coming up later today, Carol will remain in the organization, but not as the head coach. So P. Carroll, who has had an incredible run in Seattle, 14 years, which, you know, in the NFL, you might as well say 100 years, 137 and 89 and one record, that's over a 7.

600 winning percentage. I coached 19 playoff games. Wow. Went to the Super Bowl back to back years. Very nearly. We don't need to litigate this, but very nearly went back to back Super Bowl championships. But that was one of the most memorable teams of this century, the Legion of Boom Seahawks with Russell Wilson and that incredible defense. He is now 72 years old Greg Rosenthal.

And you had been kind of poking around on this one for a week or so. Cessler and I were trying to figure out who he was texting. with those thumbs. I mean, it's a short list of candidates, but we didn't know exactly. Probably Ian, but Greg, you say,

because I had mentioned it again before we started taping, to you was common sense. It was more about putting a puzzle together on that. I had no information. I was trying to find out what people would say behind the scenes. What do you think, Ian,

by the way, when he gets a Greg text, what is Ian's first reaction? He's absolutely overjoyed because the connection is very rich. It's very story. I'm so freaking Jack. I'm so fucking Jack.

I think he has no feelings whatsoever, just like all of his other interactions. And I love him for it. He's a defensive coach, and the defense has been bad for seven years. They're stuck in this middle ground where you could argue, well, their floor is very high with Pete Carroll, but maybe their ceilings very low with Pete Carroll and that the things he said he's going to solve year after year, like aren't getting solved.

He's been cycling through defensive coordinators. He's putting a lot of resources in that. And who knows, I love that they are announcing it as an amical agreement that his role will, quote, evolve to remain with the organization as an advisor. We maybe aren't going to get the full story on that or no, and I don't really care. Like they're both grownups here and he is walking away with class. He's going to have a press conference afterwards, which is not always the case, certainly, with the coach they'll let go. And he's a legend there, and he deserves to be treated. And maybe he really is just wanting to walk away.

There was some whispers about that, too. I'm curious, like, who is making this decision exactly? Obviously, it's Jody Allen to start with. But I think of John Schneider, the GM, who has been there as long as Pete Carroll and also as a Super Bowl title, is still there to help hire the next head coach. And if that the next head coach is Dan Quinn, which about 17 different NFL insiders have already put out there, is the president. prime candidate, and that maybe this is part of it is that they feel like they're in a window

here where the coach that they want is going to be available. We want to take him before he goes anywhere else. If Schneider's still there, that will tell me maybe it is a little bit more of a push-out situation. But either way, one of the best head coaches I've seen in the NFL. And I guess like, you know, if it came down to some version of a power struggle, a soft power struggle, I mean, Pete Carroll won the power struggle essentially over Russell Wilson. And that was the last big sort of battle there. You know, if you're working coaching GM for this long, as long

as they did and they made it work, it's natural that a relationship's going to start to wear down at some point professionally. And so, I mean, it was Pete Carroll that just a couple days ago said pretty clearly, I want to come back and coach this team. So something changed over the past couple of days, but he's not a young

guy, although he seems, his energy is very young. Like, you know, maybe this is a natural part of Pete Carroll that's open to this next step. And he's also very good with the media. I don't think I've ever interviewed a coach that I liked better, honestly. Oh, yeah. I love Carol, too.

He's incredible. I remember being on the rooftop in downtown L.A. for a charity event, the year they drafted Russell Wilson. And I'll never forget, like, he was very nice dude and open about how much he loved Wilson. And my mom, obviously, he's a big fan of Pete Carroll. Right. And I'm going back to his jet stays. But he said it.

He thinks he's hot. She thought he was extremely. He's okay with that. He's very secure. My father is very secure. about yeah the marriage um but Pete is yeah someone to it's good they don't like exist in the same it's his number one competition right let's just hope my dad doesn't want Pete coming east put it that way but when Pete says uh Patrick uh the other day is like oh yeah I'm not worried about anything like

Pete knew it was going on behind the scenes and he was that was just the answer he gave well and I also think it's it's one of those situations where he's telling you before everybody else tells you that if something changes regarding my coaching status with the Seattle Seahawks, it was not a decision of mine, right? When he says, like, I love my job, I love this team. He did acknowledge that he said he needed to do some things better. It's a similar question with a lot of these coaching changes, that the Chicago Bears are better on third down on offense and defense on Sunday.

Are the Seahawks still making a change at the head coaching position? Like at the end of the season? Well, not this week, right? But is this like a scenario where it's like, Yeah, you know, this has to be it. With Pete Carroll, the direction doesn't... Right, if they don't lose the tie break. They literally have the same record as the Packers.

So, again, it's one of those things. Like, is this a real long-term decision? But as Greg pointed out, there have been long-term problems in trying to get solutions to them, and Pete hasn't made able to find them. So, like, what's changing in the way to get those things? Here's what I'm fascinated by, the idea of, okay, if he's going upstairs and into some type of nebulous role

or an active role, I don't know what it would be, but if it's more like a Bruce Ariens with the Bucks type situation, is Pete ready to go into the sunset? Now he's 72, and he's the oldest coach in the league. And obviously, you don't see many coaches go this far. But, you know, listen, the president in the United States is 81. Like, I wonder what his market would be if indeed this went in a different direction. Are there teams that want Pete Carroll? Would he be a hot in demand name, whether it was this year or maybe a year from now?

that is interesting. I mean, you can pull like an Al Pacino end of any given Sunday and wind up somewhere else because his age to me has nothing to do with the Pete Carroll that we know. Like, I don't care that he's 72. I mean, check out that, what was that dramatic win? They had, what, week 16 in prime time?

The guy looks like he's 48 years old. He's so chipper and shy and he loves what he's doing. I just something that that doesn't compute about this that he's going upstairs. I don't, we'll see. Yeah, I'm with you because, yeah, if that Cowboys game had had gone a little differently, if that Rams game,

which I really feel like was the turning point for both those teams, not a memorable game, but a game that the Seahawks really outplayed the Rams and kind of stub their toe at the very end coming out of the Rams by. I think that got the Rams to like 4 and 6, 5, and 6, and the Seahawks had started their tailspin because their schedule got so much harder.

They could have made the playoffs. He's still a very good head coach. It's interesting to look back at his run. He doesn't get the pub Mike Tomlin does because he did have that 7-1. 10 season in Russell Wilson's last year. But otherwise, they've had a winning record every year since 2012. And you think, well, they never got back to those heights when they made those

back-to-back Super Bowls. But they did win 10 games, 10 games, 9, 10, 11, 12. They sneaky underperformed in the playoffs, which is very frustrating. When you're a very good team and like Mike McCarthy's Packers know this too, 10 playoff appearances, seven divisional round appearances. but they actually never made it back even to a conference championship after that lost Super Bowl to the Patriot. So it was a lot of one and done or win a wild card and lose.

And I think where he strikes me as young, you know, emotionally, but maybe not as young in terms of like schematically. Is he keeping up with what you needed to do defensively and offensively to stay at the top? I think the place Pete can add value the most might not be in Seattle anymore. like they've already told him that hey we would like you to do less right and i think we just saw bob myers go over to the commanders like if if you can bring in pete carroll in a situation to say hey how do we go about this process how do we construct the team how do we align uh the general

manager and the head coach i think petero could do that somewhere else better than he can in seattle also it should be stated he was fantastically successful in college as well is that a world he would like to go back to although that's even kind of more work with the recruiting and all that you mentioned the other thing Greg the except for the last Wilson year also doing it in the NFC West there's been some juggernauts in that division through the years and and to be able to continually be in the mix uh you know it's gonna another guy that's gonna be hard to replace i totally agree but i also think that was part of the reason they were started to probably think about this because mcvay and shanahan have owned the stocks

offensively for five years yeah So it's like, why are we going to expect this to change? That's pretty tough, though, because those are arguably the two best minds in the sport. I get it. It's just that probably led to it that we're, like, stuck in third. There is another team in Sofar that is currently looking for a head coach. Oh, Pete would love it down here. He has L.A. Root.

I would hire him as just, like, a guy to be around the team. Because one thing, Mark Sanchez was really good talking about this, but then I started listening to Seahawks players talking about this, too. like no one made you feel better and gave you more confidence that you could do that you could be your best self essentially than Pete Carroll like he Sanchez and Gino's talked about this too makes you feel like I'm going to do it like and you want to play for him and I think this is a a bad news for Gino their starting quarterback and makes me think it's more likely that they that was Gino's biggest support of everything I think

he really loved Gino. I think that it went both ways. He believed in Gino in a way that who knows if the next coach is going to be. So there could be a lot of changes. All right. So Carol, there's a bombshell right there. Another bombshell on Tuesday

when the Tennessee Titans fired Mike Vrabel. Rapsheet reported it. And then it was confirmed in a statement from Amy Adam Strunk that Vrable, the coach of the Titans for the past six seasons leading the team to a 54 and 45 record and two playoff victories, including

an AFC title game appearance, is out. And a lot of questions about why this happened, why it wasn't a trade, why the Titans would disconnect from, you know, one of the more successful coaches of the past decade. And it's only fitting, gentlemen, if we're going to be talking a little titoons in a big spot that we bring in a Hall of Famer a Hall of Fame producer. He's on Mount Rushmore. Do

I need to say his name? How about I just play the drop. Hey, buddy. Justin Graver joins us from Parts Unknown. Well, it's actually his office. And there it is, my favorite, the rotating Titans helmet that's going

just a little too fast. What's up, buddy? How you been? I've been great, guys. How are you all doing? I'm over at Fox Sports producing the NFL on Fox podcast nowadays, but I miss you guys every day. Wait, the NFL on Fox podcast? That's right. We didn't know you were competing with us.

We thought you were just doing baseball, Justin. Well, it was nice having Justin on the show until next time. All right, Grave Digger. All right, Grave Digger. That's great because you are obviously wonderfully suited for anything involving NFL coverage. You have your Titans podcast, which is called what? The Music City Audible.

So make sure you choose. check that out. And I am sure you had an emergency episode to break this down. What were your initial thoughts when the news went down that Vrable was out? How surprised were you? And what do you think about the state of the organization in general? Yeah, I think it was a bit surprising. I would put it at like a seven out of ten surprise rating because there's been a lot of smoke surrounding what Vrable possibly being traded to the Patriots. I think dating back to him being inducted into the Patriots Hall of Fame, we've seen a lot of reports that the Patriots would want to go after him. Would Mike Vable want to force his way out? The Titans don't want to move on from

Mike Vrable, but would he want to force his way out and move on himself? And it seems like maybe some of that was overblown. And we've heard a lot of stuff about a rift between Vrable and General Manager Ran Carthon. Ran Carthon dismissed all of that in his press conference yesterday. Naturally. He and Vrable were on great terms. Of course, right? What else is he going to say? He's going to help Vrable land the next job and not kick his buddy while he's down. But I did find it very interesting that it seems this all has come more from a rift between he and ownership, between he and Amy Adam Strunk. We have Nashville media members citing blowups between Vrable and ownership that are very interesting. And I think all of this is more about what's

happening behind the scenes than anything Vrable did on the field. And granted, six and 18 in his last 24 games, one in five in the division this year, those are things that can get a head coach fired. But I think that Mike Vrabel proved himself to be a great coach to always sort of play above the level of talent that he was working with, especially the injury ravaged 2021 season. So for those reasons, it is a surprise because we thought Vrable was a good coach for the Titans. But Amy Adams-strunk cited wanting an innovative, fresh approach at the head coaching position. And there's been a lot of talk that Vrable didn't align with the vision of the future of this team. And I don't really know what that means because Rand Cartham was asked multiple times.

what is the vision? And he said, we'll tell you when it's time to tell you. And Amy Adam Strunk said, we're not going to define that vision right now, but we do have one. And it all feels a little bit messy for sure. But I do think, you know, on the positive bias side, this could play out well for the Titans if you look at some of the quicker rebuilds in the NFL over the last few years. You know, Sean McVeigh turning the Rams around quickly, Dan Campbell in Detroit, Mike

McDaniel in Miami. But then there's a flip side, the Brandon Staley's that you're really a excited to hire when it happens. And three years later, everyone's calling for his head. So I think this could go okay or it could be a major disaster. And if it proves to be a major disaster, I think you have to point to ownership making a rash decision here. Yeah, I'm a little worried about Strunk here. You know, there was that whole season where Malarkey made it to the playoffs. They said they were going to keep him. And then they met. They literally said we talked contract with them. And then they met and then they fired him. And then they gave Robinson and

Vrable an extension after 21. And then they fired Robinson 10 months later, which led to Carthon being thrown in here. And I did wonder all season, like, why are these reports coming out? And sometimes it's hard not to connect the Dodds. Vrable has more friends in the media than any coach, I feel like, since Jeff Fisher. And it felt like maybe that was coming from his side that maybe he wanted to get out. And from her side of it, you can look at it like he seemed to have some issues with two GMs. And that's part of the job is like being on the same page. And he clearly wasn't happy about the AJ Brown trade.

And that was the old GM and now the new GM. So maybe even though he is a good coach and I think he is a good coach, he'll get a job. Like maybe it was time because it wasn't happening there. A lot of drama. Yeah, there's some of that. And there's a connection here, Sestog, between of Rabel and Belichick.

And Belichick is connected to Parcells. And I bring this up because when Parcells left the Patriots, it was if you want me to cook the dinner, You got to let me shop for the groceries. I think Vrable feels like at this point in time that he should be the guy running the operation and clearly Strunk was going in a different direction. The fact that you had a GM and an arranged marriage

that clearly they didn't hit it off. And ownership seems to have sided with this GM who hasn't succeeded at all, hasn't had much of a chance yet. Whereas Brable has, that's where I would get a little nervous as a Titans fan about the decision making. Yeah, and Graver, I mean,

I'll never forget the night, when we were in Las Vegas during the draft, and the bombshell came down, as Greg mentioned, that A.J. Brown was traded, and you immediately started to do a live feed about the whole thing. But you were shell-shocked by that move, and I think crestfallen, and that's, to me, the origin of the offense falling apart.

Yeah. They never found, and to the point of getting groceries and helping Vrabel succeed, the offense has been a disaster for two seasons. They aren't dynamic the way that other teams are in the AFC. And it's like he, I feel like the frustration that he showed that night and the frustration he's felt since, that makes sense that he's behind the scenes blowing up and not getting his way. And I think a parting makes is less surprising when you start to put all those pieces together. Gravedigger, I just want to thank you again. You've always kept us young on our show. A very zoomer move to go into a live stream during the middle of our show there. I'll never forget that. Yeah. Well, just to, you know, clarify what happened there. Ricky started the live stream and shoved the phone in front of my face and said, talk. That checks out as well. But yes, that was a fun, fun night for Titans fans.

No, it's crazy. You look at the Titans' offenses that didn't have A.J. Brown under Mike Vrable, they all finished 27th best or worse in terms of like scoring offense. So is A.J. Brown that big of a piece of the puzzle there? Is there some, I think part of this whole new direction that Amy Adams-Trunk wants to go and this vision is sort of to get away maybe from the, the bully ball style of football that Mike Vrable preached. And, you know, we're going to out physical you as opposed to. out scheme you is maybe a little bit old school mindset and looking at some of the most successful offensive coordinators in today's scheme today's football. Yeah, they're running schemes

from the late 90s, the Shanahan scheme, but they're doing so in a way that that sort of attacks their opponent's weaknesses. And I always felt like the Titans under Mike Vrable shied away from that. It was more about we're going to play our style of ball. Like, we don't care that the team we're playing against has a top ranked run defense and a bottom ranked past defense. We're going to establish the run so we can run play action off of it. and sort of ignoring the more new school ideas of like, you don't necessarily need to be successful on the ground to have a strong play action game. Like you create that action in the backfield.

Linebackers are going to flow downfield whether or not you've been gashing them. And I think that's where some of this is going. Again, not necessarily like him as a coach, as a developer, as a person who can connect to players, because I think he is all of those things. But when it comes to being more innovative and fresh-minded and not trying to get a lead at half-time and then sit on it, but put your foot on the throat of your opponent, keep scoring points the way that the teams like the 49ers and the dolphins do when they're having success.

I think that's where this all sort of stemmed from was, did variable want more control? There's conflicting reports that he did. Other people are saying that he actually asked Amy Adams Strunk to hire someone a general football, like a football operations president type of person that would be above him and Ran Carthon that they would both answer to one person

as opposed to answering to the owner. So I don't know if he necessarily did want more control. He might have and that, you know, it could be a false report out there. But I really think this is about Amy Adam Strunk felt Mike Grable wasn't going to win a Super Bowl. She wants something young and innovative. She looks around the league and sees these exciting offenses. The Titans haven't scored 30 points in a football game since late in the 2021 season.

They went over two full calendar years. And it's going to be, you know, two and a half by the time we get to September without scoring 30 points in a game. So I think they just wanted to. a fresh approach and it could end up being a mistake. You know, if Mike Vrable goes to New England, gets to draft a quarterback at number three and has instant success, it's going to look really bad on what the Titans have done here. But on the other hand, if they get their guy and they have success next year, you know, with Will Levis and a lot of draft capital and a lot of salary cap space this offseason,

I think that was another part of it. If the vision wasn't aligned, if Mike Vrable wasn't on the same page, are you going to let him have a big say and how you're going to spend that cap space this off season on what you're going to do with the with the seventh overall pick this year and then turn around if it doesn't work fire him next year and you sort of waste this important off season i think that all plays a role in this just in graver you've said it all by the way ironic that if you added a czar in there you would go from rabel saying i want to cook and i want the ingredients then you have too many chefs potentially you don't have too many cooks either

so a lot of a lot of stuff to figure out with the titans we know you got a lot to do over there at Fox and let's hit him with another grave digger because we miss that drop and miss that man and you look healthy and happy and you know

we miss you bud thanks I miss you guys too great to see you L thanks for having me on all right good to see you love you graver see you man love you guys iconic

Hall of Famer Patrick your thoughts on the situation well and the one thing that I really want to try to figure out from not just Graver but from the Tennessee Titans because earlier in the week

It was, well, we're not going to do the end of the year news conference until later this week, until after coach has this conversation with ownership and management. It's like, okay, what's going on there? And I just wonder, is there a scenario where the conversation ends and Mike Vrable is still the head coach? Because if that's the case, then that signals a major problem to me that you're just making these decisions in the spur of the moment based on a conversation right at the end of the football scene. Like the malarkey thing, too, which I know a long time. Which sets up, but it's still a pattern, right? if you go from these coaching decisions, and it's like

if these higher fire decisions are coming down to one conversation, then what are we really deciding? Right. And there was also a report literally six weeks ago that said Mike Rable is going to be safe in 2024 and beyond. That was from Diana Rossini

of the athletic. And that felt like it came straight. And beyond. You know, something like that doesn't come from like an assistant coach. That comes from the top. And you can almost see, you can connect the dots because the Titans put it out there or we found out from

Diana on Monday as well that they didn't want to do the trade potentially for Mike Vrable because it could take a long time and they just didn't want to get stuck in that process and they wanted to get going with possibly hiring the new coaches and then I watched this video

this is, I'm not going to say it's like Kremlin like but it did remind me of a very strange situation. It was a five minute video from Titans with Strunk and a reporter I guess from the team had a bit of a PBS like a public television vibe to it actually but I know and I'm not speaking for this one in particular but I've heard of ones like this those those she knows what questions is coming that's basically like a press conference without being a press conference she's going to hit the button she wants to hit to get

the voice out there to the fans which is fine that's her right I don't think it's crazy but one of the things she's stressed in that one was that exact same point that she didn't want to go through the whole trade thing. She basically went through everything. Justin was saying there. And I don't know. I don't want to go through the trade thing. Like that it would take.

To bring value to the organization. I don't think that to be fair, I don't think the trade would have happened anyways because like Mike Frable has to go along with that. And it could be a big process. I don't know if he's going to, they would have. Drama. It just was all very, all very interesting.

This was not a team that people thought of having great ownership with her father, or was it her father-in-law? I forget, but Adams, but either way. I think it was her father. It was a fun window, though. I liked that Titans team. I like the window is kind of kind of ending the Brady-Pats era.

Was it, who had the pick six? Was it? Logan Ryan? Logan Ryan. To getting to the AFC title game. Like that team was kind of fun to watch, even though they weren't the traditional type of air-it-out attack. you had Derek Henry as a lead

and Ryan Tannehill is a really good veteran quarterback and that window closed and now they're into the greater known without Vrable as well. Yeah, changes were already coming to the roster, especially on offense, but I can't really think of an AFC team that is set for a bigger tone shift than the Titans

because they were very much Mike Rabel's creation. Yes, and the players love him. They played hard like he's a tough one to figure because I don't think he's ever shown he provides any particular schematic advantage. like the year he was a defensive coordinator and the Texans they were kind of a terrible defense one of the worst defense league like

even in Tennessee like the numbers didn't say and yet you can see it on the field that they're greater than the sum of their parts they're tough they play hard they think that the moment they'll look back on is that Bengals lost and they were the one seed yes they made the AFC championship the next year they followed up with the one seed that game was

very winnable and they just couldn't get any pass protection and that essentially continued for the next three seasons that was that special Cincinnati season all right let's move on more to get to some head coaches

who are safe but their assistant you okay mark no yes some head coaches okay but there changes beneath them

the buyers the bears fire offensive coordinator Luke Getzzi as well as four other offensive assistants so there was a

I mean so much Claibon of intrigue around the bears right now, palace intrigue. And the idea is Matt Eberflu is going to get a third season. Well, it certainly looks like he'll get year three, but

they're going to do it with a whole new staff. Of course, remember, defensive coordinator Alan Williams resigned from his role earlier this season, very murky scenario there. So while Rappaport reported that Iberflus is likely to remain the team's

defensive play caller, he's expected to hire a true defensive coordinator, per source, and this is all set against the backdrop of the biggest quarterback decision in the history of the organization. Yeah, there's a lot of different places that the bears could go at this point. And I guess the getsy thing seemed like it was somewhat inevitable. It was the question was, was Iber Fluse going to join him? And now if somebody else is coming in to bring over the defensive play calling,

and then somebody else is going to be, of course, calling the offense, it's one of those things where we're watching league-wide, it's, oh, you got to get the play caller. The play caller has to be the head coach. Otherwise, how are you going to get this, guys? How does that match with the idea that we're going to have either a quarterback or this is Justin Fields in a must-make-it situation? I just don't think it sounds great for the current head coach of the Bears as of right now,

considering the position he's in. Yeah, I think he goes into next year because there's hope in Chicago that there's pressure on him. And I guess like you, when you go and look around at the available play callers out there, it is a bit of a, like, what are you telling that OC? Like, behind the scenes, look at, we're sticking with Justin Fields, and we need someone who can design an offense around Justin Fields and make him special. Or we might be going and drafting Caleb Williams or Drake May, and we need someone who can flexibly go design an offense around that.

Because if you go and get like a Greg Roman type person to make Justin Fields the center of the universe, that guy can't go do the thing you'd want if you had Caleb Williams. So it's a very intriguing selection on who you pick here. You probably keep your cards close to the vest because you don't trust anyone yet, even if you have a feeling.

And they probably don't have a final answer, although you would think Ryan pulls in his heart of hearts kind of knows which way he's leaning. But yeah, I think you pick a coordinator based on the expectation that you're going to have a rookie, the thing that has to be so frustrated, for Bears fans is like this is the exact same setup that has failed them multiple times before with this ownership in a row. So you kept John Fox one extra year after he was absolutely terrible,

three and 13. They draft Mitch Trubisky. You fire John Fox. Then it's like a coach in Matt Nagy that didn't have him, blah, blah, blah. You were thinking about maybe firing Nagy with Trubisky. You keep them one extra year. You draft Justin Fields. it doesn't go that well you fire Matt Nagy and then it's field starting over again with a coach that didn't happen and the most likely outcome here

because Matt Iber Fluse hasn't shown to be a huge difference maker it is a good roster and maybe they will win but if they don't Matt Eberflis will not be here next year and it'll be a coach who didn't draft it. It's just like they're never synced up and it's always the same thing.

In other news the Jaguars melted down down the stretch of a regular season missing out on the playoffs usually when something like that happens heads roll and it's not the head coach it's the people right below. That's what happened here the Jaguars fired defensive coordinator Mike Caldwell and

multiple assistance on Monday the team announced. Doug Peterson had said earlier Monday that he was still quote processing the disappointment disappointing end to the season and was going to take some time before making changes well he didn't need much time in addition to Caldwell they also fired the line coach

Brentston Buckner passing game coordinator and cornerbacks coach DeShia Townsend, in sound linebackers coach Tony Gilbert, safety's coach Cody Grimm. Oh, grim. Senior defensive assistant, Bob Sutton and defensive quality control coaches, T. Mitchell's and Sean Kalina.

So they kind of clean out a lot of the staff and not a surprise. Not a surprise, but they had different options. It was interesting listening to some of the local cover. John Shipley does a great Jaguars podcast that I've listened to. And like they were like, are they going to change the offensive coordinator? Because the offense got a lot worse and was more disappointing,

whereas this season, the defense, which is mediocre, did improve from where it was a year ago. Or could the GM, Trent Balke, be in trouble? Because I think if you were, like, doing a blame pie, he might have the biggest one. But Doug Peterson's an offensive coach, ultimately. And it's sort of the cleanest, easiest thing to just blame it on the defense. And their defense certainly struggled in that week 18 game. was kind of sloppy with mistackles throughout the season. It was a total team implosion.

It was on both sides of the ball, but the defense certainly. I mean, it's interesting as Doug Peterson, one of the reasons that he ended up, you know, breaking up with the Eagles was in that final offseason. They asked him to do this exact same thing, which was make major coaching changes. And he showed extreme loyalty

and wound up leaving the Eagles for that reason. But in this case, you're right, it's not his side of the ball. And there was clear evidence. the change needed to come. Yeah, especially, well, down the stretch, they go through that run. There's the Jake Browning game,

the Bengals scored 34 points. And they lose to the new look, Flacco Browns, which everybody did. And they lose to the Ravens, which everybody did. But the 28 points against the Titans were a few weeks ago, they blew out the Titans.

It was 3414. It just looked like a functionally different situation. And, you know, like Christian Kirk hurts. But it was tough to defend the Jack's defense, like the way that they played the entire season. They made some key turnovers in some spots, but you go back when you're examining the schedule. It really just wasn't a good defense. The offense seemed really poorly coached though, too. But that's, what are you going to do? You could switch coordinators, but it's

ultimately Peterson. They just got to button that up. All these interceptions where the receivers don't know where they are. They can't get a short yardage play. It stuck out more, too, to me, the offensive coach. Think about that Chiefs loss where there were like multiple drops in the end zone. And it seemed to plague them all year. And I mean, I think, the whole thing about Doug Peterson, it's Trevor Lawrence. And, like, he took a step back. I know he's banged up. He played through a lot of injuries,

but it's like there was this incredible promise that Trevor Lawrence was becoming the top five quarterback, and we saw a lot of the old mistakes pop up. The real that popped up this week on Twitter of near touchdowns from Trevor Lawrence. It's like, I mean, we're talking, what, 10, 12 touchdowns that are plays that could be or should be made. And, you know, that's why I would not be surprised

with some tweaks to what they're doing and it has a healthy, that he's a monster next year. I'm not I'm not out on on Lawrence as a monster. Everybody's going to overreact. Like, DAC has some picks at the end of last season. It's like, oh, God, it's over for deck. Like, I think Trevor will be fun. My question, because for folks who didn't watch the game, of course, if you look at the highlights, it's Trevor Lawrence pulling the ball back on fourth and goal where he almost had a chance to score. But on third down, they lined up

with three guys in a row and ran this like spin out pass that had no hope. And it's just like, what was the, what's the plan? But on that, on that, like, failed sneak by Lawrence, like, there was other tapes showing that linemen were, you know, because he changed the call, he changed into that play call, that it didn't go deep enough where linemen were doing the right thing. He just did it on his own. Right.

He's done that before, but doing it, that was on him from the. And he took accountability for it, too. And I'm with you, Dan, like, there's no reason to not believe in him at this point. But it was just, like, the progress. I don't know that luck, and this is true of all these firings, like, luck. is an uncomfortable portion of any of this happened, just like that

you had some bad breaks. If I had to call and execute that third downplay, I would have tried to yolo it myself too. Hell yeah. By the way, some nice mellow drama speaking of palace intrigue with the Giants Defense coordinator, Wink Martindale. And this bummed me out when I heard this

right before we started. They have mutually agreed to part ways. The team announced Wednesday. Earlier today, the story was that And the background was Brian Dable, I believe, came out and said early Monday, I expect Wink to be back. Then they have a meeting that same day that they had a conversation, and that's a nice way to call it. Wink and Brian Dable. And it ended with Martindale cursing out his coach.

And it was all about the Giants decision. to move on and Dable's decision to move on from outside linebackers coach Drew Wilkins and defensive assistant Kevin Wilkins both had come over with Wink from Baltimore and Drew was like Wink's right hand man and the post reported that Dable was adamant about getting rid of Drew and by association Kevin because there was quote a feeling in the building that Martindale and Drew Wilkins were creating their own fifthum one of my favorite words within the coaching staff at times bypassing Dable

and believing they had to answer only to each other and ultimately ownership. So Dable like sniffs this out or he perceives this whether it's true or not and says hell no and it ends with Dable cursing out Dable excuse me Wink cursing out of the facility

and then Mike Jeeze on the insider show on NFL Plus today and he's saying the Giants are in a weird spot because he just stormed off and went to Florida and never technically resigned and they also didn't fire them so they were kind of

handcuffed a little bit. They owed him $3 million. And it was going to cause a problem for the Giants. So my disappointment is that as a man who loves melodrama but can't talk right now, that's all over

because they mutually agree and Wink. You're upset that it's been resolved. I like it. It was fun. And I wanted more, more dysfunction. But Wink's going to get a job somewhere

but also like the head coach It hires them's like, damn, do I want these Wilkins boys with me? I don't know. It's so funny because, like, it's reminding to me of that book, Collision Low Crossers that we all read, where a big part of the drama between the Jets was that the offensive staff. By the way, drink every time Mark still brings up Collision Low Crossers. I literally actually, like, had a long talk with Collision Low Crossers with Pete Carroll way back in the day.

I mean, he and he didn't have a lot to say. Anyways, like that. People should check it out. There are not enough great. Check out what? Collision look out there aren't enough books like this. I did order and I have that book on my coffee table because Mark Collision Low Crossers

because Mark has referenced so much I literally bought it two weeks ago There should be more books like this Greg because they had lent it to you but good for the author They embedded someone with the Jets for like a year plus and like you learn number one everything that happens to a football team the minute the off season starts and what the coaches do

but it got so soiled because the offensive staff and you had Sanchez and things were up and down obviously and the defensive staff were they weren't even speaking to each other and they were openly at odds. And I think, like, bad teams, this is what starts to happen. And it's like this year's Jets

and this year's Giants where you've got defunct quarterback play and you've got a defense trying to hold down the fort and Wing Martindale is no wilting flower. I love it. I'm with you, Dan. I'm sad this having other... I don't like Davel's move here.

It just seems cowardly. Well... You have a press conference. You say... martindale's going to be back obviously there's some issues here glazer reported on it three weeks ago or whatever it was a month ago that the two of them weren't getting along you say he's going to be back then you fire his two closest assistants without having a conversation with they go ahead of time so that's odd that to me is you're firing with martindale because you know what's going to happen

to just fire wink did you hear i heard this through my reporting a wink went into the office he's like Where's Drew? Drew? No, he did not. Kev? Drew and Kev? Wilkins' boys? No, no answer.

They were gone. Yeah, and then Bryant actually, Brian Daibel goes in just from the hallway. They gone. Hey, gone. You're right, though, Greg. Like, it was a roundabout move. Like, this was the coach of the year a year ago. Well, and there are some reporting, too, like he, the Kafka is unhappy with how

Daibel has minimized him. He's the offensive coroner. So then you do have to like a little bit. I won't stand for this. I like Daibol, but they're just. just seems to be I just like Howardly is strong

by the way isn't that part of this this stuff happens all the time doesn't it? We hear about this all the time

of firing assistants that are connected to people and then I only have so many I only have so many principles but I do feel like with the most important

principle is just be forthright in important matters with people around you so that just seems like you're kind of taking the easy way out don't have a loud

passionate screaming match on national television with somebody and then come out and be like hey you know everything's fine you know we hang out we have tea in the afternoon like no like we had a disagreement we're not necessarily seeing eye to eye on the on on a certain issue but the market Patrick like he's trying to put that out because anything you say is going to be able sure okay

well fortunately we're not talking about dysfunction with the new york giants yeah to not just like handle it with martindale you know person to person are they gonna are they going to get rid of the defensive meeting rooms true it seems like true as a thiefdom right because i i I had to look it up. It's an area over which someone exercises control in the manner of a feudal lord. So are we going to say like anytime the defense is meeting like, wait, what are you guys talking about? I don't necessarily trust you. Dable's like, hey, uh, wink, you want to have a conversation real quick?

He's like, no, I'm actually just about to grab Drew and get some lunch. And it was like, nah, no, you're not. He will not be having lunch. Yeah, he won't be finding Drew. You're just going to find an empty office. All right. And finally in the news, all quiet in New England for the time being. So Vrables out, hell, Carol's out, Carol coach the Pats once upon a time.

Oh, putting that together, but I'm just saying that's, that's history. But a couple days now after Bill's end of season press conference and him mentioning that he was under contract to the Patriots and all the speculation connecting him to multiple teams, including the Atlanta Falcons, no updates. I do have as the ATN Media Insider. I did get a quote from Bill. I know this is going to be surprising. Very surprising. Because you know what Robert Kraft wants.

Craft wants Bill to quit and then he looks good and they start over. But Bill wants to, he's putting the heat on craft to make the move. here's what Bill told me exclusively oh wow if you want to stop me you're going to have to kill me so

emotional so he's starting to open up a little bit and that's good I think that's good that Bill is being honest with the media just like dable

we don't want to be cowardly yeah cathartic yeah was it easy to get him to go on the record one on one with I got him very drunk

you do you do wonder yeah is is Robert Kraft making Jonathan Kraft be the bad guy here. They did, by the way, not enjoy that Pete Carroll experience the first time around. That was their welcome to NFL ownership was that. It was like 42 eons ago. Yeah, that Pete Carroll was a different person. Pete Carroll thing. I fully expect Bill Belchek to not be the head coach of the Patriots in a week or whenever it's going to be. Tom Curran, who I really trust more than anyone there has said repeatedly. Who do you trust more? Tom Curran or your own father? Quick, quick, quick.

About the Patriots? No, no, no, no, no. Answer. Answer. Answer. My father. But he's been operating, like, they made this decision. The decision is made. And it does make sense to me that there would be some, I think they want to have it be as kumbaya as Siaks have with Pete Carroll right now. I don't think that's, it's not going to be that kumbaya. But I think they're trying to, to just manage it.

And that change is coming. It's just not, hasn't come in the 48 hours after the season. And you look at Tennessee with Rabel and they decided not to pursue the trade route. And it does make sense. when you kind of break it down, that obviously that Kraft would love to turn this into a trade, but Bill has no reason to make it a trade.

And if Bill puts it back on crap, it's like, I'm not agreeing to anything like that. You're going to have to fire me. You can't keep me. Like, if you don't trade me and you don't fire me, then you got to keep me.

And meanwhile, the Patriots are trying to start over. And it's like, when is this going to wrap up? Is the question. Tom also believes it, Bill wholeheartedly really wants to stay in New England. That is his, like, he loves it there.

He's been there forever. He believes he can turn it around. And so, yeah, he's got to go out kicking and screaming. He is not assuming that this is a fate of complete. And you never know. Maybe he could be persuasive, but I don't think so. I also don't think any team is waiting around for Bill Belichick or Mike Vrable for that matter on these trades. It's like, Ravel was six and 18.

Like, yes, they would give up something potentially, but it's not. Mike Grable three years ago off winning the coach of the year. It's not Bill Belichick 10 years ago. You're saying that? Somebody who, Weish was the same thing. I think Belichick is tremendous. Like, I think he's going to have a big market. I do too.

I just don't think teams are going to wait around to send like a valuable draft pick for him. And if it's, they're waiting around to get like a fifth round pick, it's like, what are we doing? It'd be embarrassing to be traded for a fifth round. I'm just saying, like, I don't think anyone's giving up a first for Bill. right now we're like going through the hassle of it and who do you call like how do you make a trade for bill belichick i guess the other team have to go through bill first you have to well true yeah you call you got a circle circle around bill balecheck but you call jonathan craft yeah that's a good thing you're going to have to kill me that's interesting all right that's what's happening in the news

eric circling back to the claibon theme song yes any claibon theme songs or anybody theme songs for that matter We got that Mark Sessler one Just got dropped on our lap Didn't really ask for it It's a banger The ATN podcast at gmail. Do you have that? Do you have that?

If you're going to mention it I might as well play it Just to give you an idea of the creativity that we expect If you're going to If you're going to submit Don't waste our time I want actual musicians

I want real production values Because anything less than that Is a slap in the face of Patrick Claibon Which is fine Like you can slap And we're not going to go The dable route with Drew we want to treat the man with the respect he deserves

you know so the themes that we've had for Colleen and who else has base Weish has a ton By the way Weish Before we did Here's the Mark theme by the way It's so on Brad Hobart Curtis sent us in for us guys

Can't just picture Mark in a club in Berlin Can't just picture Mark in a club in Berlin with Pierce Nipples just dancing every one of those all aspects of that story I could see him at the DJ table spinning this trek

Yeah Like with the crowd going Just rolling out of his mind Now I'm going to the dance For the Pierce Nipples Paisley open shirt Not like a button down But not no buttons

And he just Nobody's touching my nipples A lot of slow motion Pierce had dropped So anyway Before the Weish submissions came in We actually spoke with Weish Like what do you want

And he talked about his wife, Dee's background, Jamaican background, I believe it is. And we got like kind of something with a little dancey Caly Calypso vibe to it. Caribbean, yeah. Caribbean. Like what would a Claibon song show? Oh, you're going to hate my answer. No, I'm going to love it. Because if somebody's taking the time to make a track about me, like just, just feel it.

Whatever I've ever said that means something to you or anything. No boundaries. Yeah, just make you need a particular style. No, I'm not going to put anybody in a box. So you're saying lyrically, go wherever you want, but musically, is there a genre that perhaps you would... I would prefer, I would prefer control over the lyrics more than the music to be honest. We can't offer you that.

We can't offer you that. We can't let you shop for the groceries. Okay. Someone's shopping for the groceries and making the meal here. You'll have multiple to pick from it because, you know, I didn't. I got one. But that's fine. I really enjoy it.

They nailed it. I mean, that's one out of one. Yeah, they nailed it. If you want a rolling, sweaty glow stick track like Mark, Like, that's fine. Or you could... Doesn't feel right, though. I don't know what it is...

Like, Patrick, there's something... People are going to get the essence. They're going to... Yeah, you know what? You know what? I don't want to... They know him through the portal of the show. I was going to offer my opinion on it, but I'm just going to let the people feel it out.

Yeah. Look at a picture of Patrick's beautiful face. Just stare at it. And what does it bring to you? Like, creatively. How does that get the juices flowing? It could be a paltry song. We don't know.

Yeah, try to control. control yourself. Looking at Pat Claibon's photo. I don't know if Patrick is like a huge music guy. Yeah, but he's the other people making the song are. That's what I'm saying,

but that informs why he doesn't need a specific genre or anything. He's open-minded on it. I also don't know enough to like, because musical genres kind of get in the weeds a little bit. I just remember having a conversation with you one.

Yeah, about me. And you're like, I don't know that much about music. And I was like, okay, that's interesting. What about something with a bit of like a hubba stank vibe?

No. like more the reason or crawling in the dark? The reason. Whoa. I think you're trying to project onto him what he wants to. I had to share it. For some reason, like the reason. I'm more crawling in the dark than I am the dark.

Okay. There you go. There's just one direction you can go. And I mentioned looking at the pictures of Patrick, be respectful. That's all. Yeah, control yourself. It's hard.

Right. Be respectful. All right. Let's take a break. Oh, did we say the name of the email? Yeah. That's the ATN podcast at gmail. send them in don't disappoint us we believe in you and uh we will send you a signed autograph photo

of mark sessler uh in the levi jacket uh for the the anyone that submits a song that we use on the show how about that that means we got to send mark back for another oh photo engagement no no i'll take it out in the wild and i'll not take it in evens the score right i'm not taken in the corporate office yes we're going to get you no yes it's going to be like one of those yearbook photos where they take you outside and put you up against the oak tree. That photographer was brought here for that window of time.

She does not... Dude, she's downstairs. She's part of the photo team, bud. You got to plug in on this office. You didn't think we outsource that? I do not need to plug in to the office. We're going to have you come in on an off day too. We're going to get your makeup done.

I will literally drive to Canada before any of that happens. Let's take a break and we'll be right back. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find

anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies. roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture.

If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now, I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel?

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Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. has awards. Why the can't we have them too? Thusly, it is time for the A-T-N awards.

Not to be confused with the A-B-N awards. Certainly not. I mean, one's more fun than the other. Yeah, and it's not this one. All right.

Now, you see it everywhere. Weirdly, we've never done this. And it's kind of something we had to We have never I got you That one Got a Joe Koi over here

That's been to many An Aviana Award That's why He's co-hosted them You had a memorable patter with a Brianna Banks Back in 2002 I remember Yeah who can forget

All right now let's get into it It is time To share Our picks And what we did We did as a collective A voting system That mirrors what the

associated press does with the MVP award which is a voting that breaks it down you get five votes and a first place vote is 10 points second place vote is what five points was it? Yeah and then three two one three two one

and for the NFL the official awards which are announced at the honors and all that stuff that is just for the MVP but we did it for the other major awards as well so let's go through them all and and we had a nice voting body this year it was the three of us.

Claibon was with us as well. Nick Shook, who's another member of the ATN Hall of Fame, the Sunday Night Man and Beyond the Pipe. You have Colleen Wolf. Yeah. Also turned in her ballot. Also behind the glass, big funk. And Eric Roberts.

Wow. That is... Streets are talking like should of the producers combine to have one producer vote, you know, have they earned a totally separate and equal vote? I would have just bullied Randy into taking my votes. Okay, okay. I thought you're going to stand up for yourself and

honestly. They deserve it, but of course we do. Okay. But if it would have been one vote, I just would have taken the vote. That's fine. Okay. I got developing news, by the way. I'm glad we learned more about your dynamics between the two of you. That was fascinating. On her, her. My mom has made a statement on the changing of the guard in Seattle.

Oh, okay. Mom says, four-word statement, but incredibly powerful. Football just got uglier. Wow. This crush has been decades old, right? It started in Pete was one and done with the Jets. yeah in 94 so 30 years and yeah she's been married almost 55 50 years fair amount of maybe that was a sneaky key to his college success you know going in those

i don't know how sneaky recruiting and impressing the moms okay unbelievable that's salt and pepper hair will take you far all right let's get to it now um MVP and it is wait My dad also has now replied to a statement because I put Keith and Deb on the thread. Any phone call home is also, they're always both on the phone. Oh, absolutely. Same with my parents. Always together.

Keith has chimed in. Directly after my mom, another jet coach that failed. Hey, man. It's a little competition there, sounds like to me. He doesn't seem too concerned. No, all right, let's get to it.

MVP, it is a runaway. My only concern with this, and I shared this with producer Eric, was that we're going to be a little too chalky as a group to what everyone else is going to say, but you know, we're also going to do it the right way. We can get into how we disagree if we want with any of them.

I hope we disagree. Because that makes for good podcasting. All right, the MVP of the league in a landslide. Lamar Jackson, who got first, place votes for every from everyone except for shuky uh nick shook gave his first place vote to christian mcalfrey lamar got 75 what do they call points i don't even know how they do it votes seems

like a point points whatever you can call them whatever you want uh second place a little bit of surprise i thought uh but narrowly edging out dac christian mcalfrey got 27 points uh deck 26 fourth place Brock Purdy and then fifth place Tyreek Hill so pretty at 16 points Tyreek had 11 and Mark I really do think I think I think Purdy might do or I'm almost certain

Purdy will do better in the AP voting but I think it just goes to show you there was that lingering idea of where Purdy's talents stack up to everything else that's going on around him but also I think that stage on Christmas night flopping essentially

ended his change. Yeah, I went Lamar number one and Purdy number two. Colleen also had Purdy number two. I think it was like a really unique year for MVP where like they all seem to square off and duel against each other down the stretch. And I think that

you know, Lamar passed every test. He passed every test and did stump. You know, there's no real second place to me. Well, also there's another 49er that outvoted, you know, Purdy in this voting. And I think that that's part of it, is that reasonable minds can look at that team and think McCaffrey is the most important guy on it, especially this year.

And I think reasonable minds could go Purdy. My big takeaway from doing all these awards is there are no awards, maybe the exception of offensive rookie of the year, but we could even get into that with the season Puka had that that seemed like there's bad choices. Like, I don't think Dak or Purdy are bad choices here. Like, it's not, it's completely reasonable to vote for them first over Lamar. I voted Lamar first, CMC, second, so I ended up chalk with what we ended up with. But, like, even Josh Allen's, like, not that crazy.

He ended up sixth on ours. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets in the top five in the final voting. I had Dak. I gave him my second place vote and Purdy, my third place vote. But I could have easily went the other way on that. But it was a very clear the way Lamar closed that he deserved it. And the Ravens are sitting on a buy right now as a result in large part because of Jackson's incredible. You didn't mention the votes at the very end.

Stafford. I gave Stafford a fourth place vote. I like that. I always like when somebody, like it's usually a local beat guy. Yeah. We're in Los Angeles. I like that. Miles Garrett got a fourth place vote.

I don't know who. That was me. That was, and, uh, TJ Stroud got a fifth place votes. And then in a total stunner, uh,

Colleen voted your mom. Yeah. She got a vote. Whose mom is she pointing to your mom? Your mom. Your mom. I guess it just it applies to anyone who asks the question. Yeah.

And you know what? Mom's, don't get enough credit. So I think that was a great That's a great focus. She's sort of quietly voted for millions of people. Yeah, I was... Billions.

Billions. Probably more than millions. Eric not only voted Josh Allen 3rd, which I think is very reasonable. He made Randy put him on the ballot, too. So that was where those votes came from. Twisted his arm violently. All right, let's move to offense. I talked about Jordan Love, guys.

It's like a fifth place. Offensive player of the year. Now, this one it made me think if how do the voters do with this? Because hypothetically if you vote you know

quarterbacks in the MVP rankings do you just eliminate them from this entirely or do you put them but I did it. I took them out. I had the same questions. Like why wouldn't I take

like the second best quarterback that I voted for an MVP and just make them offensive play of the year? But I went zero quarterback strategy. Sometimes quarterbacks have won both. I remember Peyton Manning did it, for instance.

And that's why I've always been annoyed by this award. Then you're the NPD by nature. Well, it's also like if you voted them second, then I'll vote for the quarterback first. I'd say it's most valuable non-quarterback. All right. With that said, here is the offensive player of the year, and it's deserved it.

It is the running back of the 49ers. Christian McCaffrey with 65 votes. If you're watching on YouTube, we got some nice graphics. Is that big funk on the graphics? No, that was me, guys. Oh, Roberts. Not only. It was funk, but Roberts twisted.

No. Taking votes from funk and now taking credit, too. CMC got first place votes from, let's see, everybody except for Claibon, who went with Tyree Kill, and I gave CD Lamb some love. You know, I'm in a love affair with CD right now. but it was CMC finishing first Tyreek Hill distant second 38 points

CD third 28 points Josh Allen 15 points DAC with six points which tells you yeah the quarterbacks are kind of floating in another world why

Tyreek over CMC Patrick I was just looking at who stood out the most among their peers and I don't think you could say anybody came even close to what Tyreek did as a wide receiver this year, especially those past when Tyreek was not 100%

and he was still dominating in many aspects of the game. Like he hobbles back on the field to make a game winning play. That just kind of sent me over the edge, not necessarily that and I knew Christian was going to get some votes and maybe there was some vote chicanery with leaving Christian off of my offensive player

of the year. Took them off entirely. Wow. It didn't help. It did not ultimately matter. That's a strategy though. Yeah. I like that. It's one of, you know, weird people do it. all the time and never acknowledge it. I will acknowledge it as trash, but I tried and I failed.

Oh, that's interesting. Does that actually happen? Yes. Yeah. Especially with baseball. Oh, my God. Ridiculous. All right, let's move to, unless anybody else, something out there.

I like that. Both me and you gave Kyron Williams some love as a fourth place. A little pop. What a year. What a difference making for that offense in Los Angeles. All right, defensive player of the year. Now, this is a wide open year because I thought, Miles Garrett obviously was a leader early on and then he gets banged up and the production dip so that opened the door.

Could anyone walk in that door? Here is the winner with 68 votes. I don't like same points. For some reason, it doesn't have the same. No, votes makes sense. Gravitas. 68 votes. Miles Garrett wins it.

Mark, congratulations. T.J. Watt. even though he picked up a couple sacks there before going down with the injury in week 17 38 38 votes Mika Parsons, 33 votes.

Max Crosby got seven who I forgot about Max, sorry, but and Duran Bland was seven who had all those pick sixes. You know, that happens too. It does because I just aren't paying attention. I missed the, I missed the Zay Flowers too. Eric knows that I was working on this

toiling right up to the final minutes And there were there edits? I don't know how much he wants me to pull back the curtain. But it was... No, what happened? How many edits? I wouldn't call them edits.

I didn't understand the assignment out of the gate in terms of going five deep with everyone. You wolfed it? So he gave me the winner and then he gave me the top three and then he gave me the top five as a matter of like an hour pop. It was like a reveal.

Yeah, I wanted to make it add an element of showmanship and drama to it and the annoyance of the producer. That's next level showmanship when it's just you and the producer private. He wasn't asking for that. It was fun. How did Colleen do with the assignment, by the way?

Great. One email? Yeah, one email. Good for her. And an extra your mom in there, so she was on a fun point yesterday. Let's see the way this broke down. Miles got first place votes from Sestog, Connie, Shook, Claibon, Randy, and Eric. I gave, Greg, you gave him a second place vote, and I gave him a third place vote.

You went T.J. Y. I went Michael Parsons. Again, I think those three are all really strong. I tend to think Miles Garrett will win, but I think T.J. Watt has a real chance. I think it'll be closer. Yeah, I think it'll be closer than this vote. Actually, no, because they don't do the MVP-style voting

for anything other than MVP. So this is just one pick and done. But even then it could. I believe when T.J. Watt won it before. I could be wrong. That was one of those years. Like, he had less than 20 votes, but he had the most votes.

And something similar could happen. Parsons passes just my, I think he's the best. And then there is some good numbers for it. He does have way more pressures than anyone in the league. His pass rush win rate is significantly better than anyone. Miles Garrett is a strong number two there. And then it's a pretty big drop to number three. Parsons faces the most amount of double teams in the league.

He's beaten double teams the most. And so just trying to, I think T.J. Watt would be a good vote. I think Garrett, who is my second place, would be a great. vote too but just like pulling them apart once I saw those sort of numbers I was like that was enough for me to just back what my gut tells me which is by the way why I threw Aaron Donald a vote because his pop the hood metrics are all still dominant he's always commanding all those double and triple teams and still uh you know he set he was set in the table for your boy young Kobe uh this season you think he's been better than Miles Garrett this season right he voted at the bottom of the

like okay place but I gave you I gave him a vote okay okay I had Garrett third. I think that could really go any of those three, honestly. It does come down, I think, also just like the experience of watching football and the player itself. Because it's like I completely hear your argument for Michael and also for TJ. But I think like Garrett has been at a defensive player of the year level throughout the last couple seasons. And this was just a little bit more of a special performance on a special defense.

I like, I do actually like rewarding him. Like it was one reason why I had him second versus third versus did you what? It's like, do you know what's already won one? I do think that's okay to take into account. Like James Harrison won one, and he was very deserving a couple times. And he kind of won it. It was like Pacino winning for cent of a woman or anything.

He won it in the year that I didn't think he should have won it, but I was like, it was good that he won it. I thought it was good. So I think that's okay for Miles Garrett. Well, in terms of my ethics, I give it to the best man. Yeah. It's kind of like a makeup call.

In which instance, you have two bad calls instead of one. Yeah, but if they're all like, if you're just like breaking ties or whatever. But you were talking about your personal level of integrity when it comes to being forthright with people earlier. I just said it. I wrote that down for myself, by the way. I want to tell you best man for the job. That's my credo.

That's where I stand. Mark, you're next later in the show. I believe Miles Garrett was the best player. No, I want something more like a personal stance on integrity that you have. I'll try to cook one up. I'm saying with big life decisions, like firing a man. Yes, I was saying that. Important decisions.

I'm not questioning what you said. Let's go. I'm just saying I was sharing some ethics. Best man. We're all the better for it, Dan. All right, let's move to where are we at now? Offensive rookie of the year. This one was surprising.

Hit it, hit the, what is that called again? It's a drum roll. No, it's timpony. That's what it is. It's the timpony. Timpani? By the way, someone... Sorry, somebody on Twitter

gave me something really something to chew on that I loved it. Oh, here it is, from Hugh Robertson. People are wondering, those people being me. What do you call it when you're strumming the harp? I would say strumming.

That's what I thought, too. Well, Hugh Robertson tells us that this Hugh Robertson tells us that flourish on the harp leading into New Horizons Monday is called a glissando that's a word

a cascade of notes rippling into each other not unlike the woes currently be falling the Philadelphia Eagles what a beautiful tweet heed the call great tweet let me hear that again this is a

glissando That was multiple. That was glasandoos. When there's two, it's glissandos. All right, now give me the timpany because it's time to announce the offensive rookie there. This one was closer than I thought it was going to be, but with 65 votes.

You know it's the quarterback of the Houston Texans. He's getting ready to knock out, Marks Brown, CJ Stroud, the offensive rookie of the year for around the NFL, just narrowly edging out Pooka and Akua by 10 votes, 65 to 55. First place votes for CJ from Zuzzer, Greg, Mark, Colleen, and Shook. Second place votes from Claibon, Funk, and Eric, first place votes to Puka for those last three names. Mark, it's Stroud, though. Stroud wins it. not the landslide for us it was Buka has been incredibly broke a record dating back to 1960 and from wire to wire

he was a fascination I mean for me it's a degree of difficulty like C.J. Stroud coming in and right away doing things that you'd expect a quarterback to do in year three and four and looking like a potential like I thought at times

a possible MVP candidate and like Shook gave him an MVP vote and it's like Stroud has completely changed the organization and I just think I gave that a little bit more value than wide receiver. Yeah, I struggle with that because I would want to give it to a receiver

if he was that exceptional as a receiver. He has a case to be made maybe not All-Pro because the only but second team All-Pro. The top four wide receivers in the league. But Stroud to me was a top six quarterback in the league. So like if Stroud wasn't this exceptional, than I would have gone

Puka, like you look at some of the previous winners. Puka would have won it over Garrett Wilson. Jamar Chase is close. Herbert would have been close. Kyler, I would have said he would have wanted over Sequin, Camara, maybe not Dack. That was an incredible rookie year. Like, it had to be a really special rookie year

to beat up Puka, but I think Stroud had that year. Yeah, I think you're right. This is one of those you look back and, wow, quarterback who hit the ground running as a star, and then you can understand why people are tossing drinks. in Charlotte because you had a chance and passed on that man by the way I threw Bijjan a vote

I was surprised to see that you know what Greg you had mentioned I think he finished over 1,400 total yards and it was a lot of incompetence around him and you had a fifth place vote in the play calling and I just almost a nod of appreciation that I still see you as a potential superstar so thank you

for doing your best in trying circumstances the bottom of the list was more mixed up Sam Laporta was a strong third and yeah he would have been a good candidate in a lot of years. Jaden Reed and Jamar Jemir Gibbs were tied for fifth. Tank, I assume that's not Tank Biggsby.

No, I don't think so. That's Del dog. Tank Dell. Yes. I don't know why I had Tank Biggsby on their brain. Jordan Addison gets a little vote. A. Chan gets a vote. Zay Flowers gets four. There we go. All right. Let's move to defensive rookie of the year. This one I struggled with, but here we

go. Defensive rookie of the year, the winner is Just like the Jets last year The Texans sweep the category Will Anderson The defensive end wins it with 63 votes We have Jalen Carter The Eagles defensive tackle 38 votes

And then Witherspoon of Seattle gets 25 That's the top three young Kobe just misses out on a medal 24 points 24 votes excuse me um i struggled with this one guys um for instance i gave will anderson a third place vote um and greg i say you gave him a second place vote and then everyone else uh gave him first place vote except for excuse me shook who gave him a second place vote as well mark what was your thinking on this one i think will anderson is the kind of player that helped the Texans

in every aspect of what his position is. He was good against the run. He's a good pass rusher. He hit the ground running looking like the guy from the start. And for me,

I thought Jalen Carter and the whole Eagles experience probably tinged my thinking there a little bit, but I think the Houston Texans best draft class around. If there was a more cohesive and consistent defensive,

not just plan, but effort from Philadelphia might have changed things, but to watch Will Anderson playing hurt towards the end of the year still impact the games whereas the Eagles defense is... Yeah, I was the only one that gave Carter

a first place vote because I was kind of looking at some of the production and then the analytics and his past rush win rate and everything like that his ranking is not amongst rookies. He is already one of the very best defensive tackles in the league in terms of all the generating pressure

and just being a cog in the middle of that defense. he's already a star. And I think I didn't want to penalize him because the rest of the defense is completely falling off a clip. Yeah, I thought those three players and I would put Kobe Turner in there were so close that I actually, you know,

I put some, I tried to figure out, there is almost nothing separating these three guys. You could make different arguments, I think, for all of them. I think I voted Kobe Turner first. The producers didn't give him even a fifth place vote. I gave him a second place vote. Once again,

I just wonder about handing them this much responsibility. That's why he was, oh, I mean, well, I didn't know. Ivan Pace gets third place and we can't get Kobe Turner. Oh, damn. And Kobe Turner plays interior defensive line. So he only had eight or nine less pressures than Will Anderson. He was in the top 10 of all defensive tackles in terms of interior pressures. Now, Jalen Carter actually was like slightly ahead of him even too.

And I thought, okay, is it Aaron Donald setting him? up and then you think like has aaron donald ever have a defensive tackle literally have any stats next to him no so that didn't seem like it's a really strong argument there wasn't much separating all these guys they all were very good in terms of their pass rush win rate will anderson was probably the best run stopper uh but i gave it to turner give him a little extra love claibon didn't give him anything either oh jaya diabi gets a fourth why do you i thought i thought i thought i thought i thought gregg would like yada idea no i like that one i like that that's fun disappointed Greg Patrick.

Yeah, it's Devin Witherspoon that Greg hates. No, I put him fifth and he came in third. Well, that's Brian Branch. I put Branch. Okay, so then leave me alone. All right, finally. Let's bring this thing in for a landing. The coach of the year, it's the coach of the year.

Very competitive this season. D'emiko. D'emico Rines wins it. Surprising. Do we have the voting grid on that one? With 68 votes, Stafansky, who is my first place pick, comes in kind of a deep second. You only got two first pace.

Only you and I voted Stafansky first. And then Kyle Shanahan gets 12 points, Shane Stike in 11, Dan Campbell's 7. That's the top five. Okay, Claibon, who did you have first? I had D'Amico first. Tell us why. And we don't have to go back too far

where there's like a prosperity gospel slash comedian guy like surreptitiously recording meetings in Houston, they fire back-to-back coaches. There's all sorts of stuff happening and then DeMico comes in. They have a candidate for offensive rookie of the year, defensive rookie of the year. They're in the playoffs

in a division that we did not think the Texans would win. I think considering all of that, D'Amico was the coach of the year. I really struggle with this one because... He was my second one. I think he fits, he checks every box. I think the thing about Stephen that outweighed everything else for me

was if you knew any team going into the year would have five quarterbacks. It's an obvious argument, but like to survive all that and like really have bad quarterback play through 85% of the season and stay afloat, that's good coaching.

And I think that he also is someone, his demeanor after so many years of wreckage in Cleveland, like he's just got this calm, cool demeanor and he's now won it twice and he's been the same guy the entire time. Well, we'll see if he wins it. This makes me think maybe D'Amico Ryan's... Well, if he's won it here.

He has not won it here. It's a win. It's a W. He won it with me. But like, yeah. That was why we went over, over, under's the other day. The Watson thing was so overpowering that I thought that got in the way of like looking at the roster and that there was talent on both sides of ball. And they got the coaching, the defensive coordinator was looked like an upgrade. And, but what ended up happening was you lose.

Watson, even though he wasn't playing at a high level, you lose Chubb. And for them to somehow not only the offensive line, the line, yep, you know, for them not only to survive it, it's not like they snuck into the playoffs at 9 and 8, they had 11 wins going until the last week of the season and then rested their starters. And I just think Stefansky deserves so much credit for that. And, you know, with the Flacco magic, like, Flacco deserves obviously the most credit, but Flacco was for the Jets and

anyone else the last five years a very hit or miss proposition usually a miss and now he's playing like an all pro and and stepansky is an offensive dude and i just i think he does i think this is his award i'd be very surprised if domico actually gets it i think domico has a chance just because you know they won six games in the last two years and that's that's a big deal yeah and i think it goes into what it what are you rewarding for the whole job of coaching i think stefansky did that exceptionally as well. Because you're not judging them on his offensive production. That's one little ding against them

as well as he's done making them competitive, especially late in the season. They are 27th, 28th in like EPA of your play and he's an offensive coach. But he was good at hiring Jim Schwartz and getting everything together. But I think Domeco Ryan's, there is something that's that you can't even calculate.

And I think Kyle Shanahan, that's why I had him so high too. I think I had him second or third. And I can't remember who I had between Stefanski Shanahan, but like everything that goes into it, not just calling the plays, hiring the coaches, like helping to bring in the players, everything.

And Ryan's changed that culture. But Stavansky has two. And so either one would be good. Yeah, I feel like this award has been relative to the expectations for a very long time. Mike Smith won it multiple times. Come on. It's like the expectations were low because Mike Smith

was the coach. Dennis Allen's going to win next year, baby. All right. Good stuff. Those are our awards. you'll get the actual, well, these are the actual words of my mind, but the ones that are seen as gospel. You have to wait until NFL honors a few days before the Super Bowl.

We're going to be back on Thursday with the preview of Super Wildcard Week. And I think it's going to be one of the most competitive and compelling ones ever. So thank you for listening so far this week. And more to come. And Patrick, you've said it all.

Anything to add? Yes. If the Saints started James Winston next year And he lost every single game and had one tie He and Dennis Allen would have the same win-loss record Percentage-wise So there it is Wow

Okay, that's good That's a fact twin That's a fact Jack All right, till Thursday heed the call Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

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