NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Players Speak Out & Titans Deep Dive

Episode Date: June 3, 2020

A bunker filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal and Marc Sessler bring you the latest news in the NFL including Drew Brees’ comments, coaches handling this moment with varying success and a change in training camps. Plus, Paul Kuharsky stops by to do a deep dive on the Tennessee Titans.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast. Likes Dirty Motel Roos. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hans.

It's coming to you from a city filled with heroes in bunkers. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal. What is up, boys? Here now. What is that code for? Which one of us actually enjoys a dirty hotel room? I believe that's a reference to your Airbnb addiction. But I guess you established rather clearly or clearly enough that it wasn't,

you weren't living in squalor in these establishments during COVID. You were, in fact, finding a fairly nice Airbnb home. But the initial bit was that it was a motel who flies and flees and stains. Yeah, I mean, those feel like the good old days right now. Mark's favorite Airbnbs are the ones he gets for Simone and the kids. Leave without him. What a job by Mark. Excuse me.

Mark pulls off the most amazing things. That's a nice comment by a man whose wife goes to do camp for like 45 days. It was a set up. Your wife leaves for like every, During the regular season, she leaves for like six weeks. Don't, I mean, it's, you know, under advertised. It's always Mark's doing all this adventurous stuff, please. Simone is a wonderful woman, and I, you know, we share a bond being exactly the same age that will go on forever.

But you are so fortunate, Mark, as I've said to you many times, both privately and publicly, you're a lucky man to have her, that you were able to send Simone and the two boys off last weekend for a lakeside adventure, while you had the house. yourself. This is, Mark, you have to understand. This is unprecedented setups going on in your family that none of us are privy to. And I just want to say, like, good for you, man. It's a nice well, yeah. I mean, good stuff. Number one, like, apparently we are privy to. I've just notified you that someone's wife leaves for six weeks a year. So it's like, you know, it's with the children. And it's a wonderful journey for them to be part of another culture for a while, I'm sure. but, you know, my children were part of nature for a couple days, which is a very nice thing for them to experience.

That's nice to get out of the house. By the way, spent most of the weekend with Ali Bon Pari writing like a, you know, some endless piece for him. So, you know, it wasn't exactly a total getaway. Our editor for features here at NFL Media. Hey, in other news, I'm looking right now down at my phone. L.A. County extends its curfew for a fourth day, this time from 9. p.m. until 5 a.m. protests are continuing both in Los Angeles and the looting, which, you know,

is a terrible thing in its own right. And that is seems like it has waned a little bit, which is great. Hopefully that continues to trail off. And the message of the protest is what remains in the forefront. Ricky Hollywood, you took to the streets yesterday, right? I did. Yeah. I went out and marched, marched about three miles yesterday in Hollywood. It was a pretty crazy sight. It was really cool, though. There were police on every corner. They had thousands of zip ties hanging off their, you know, belts. But there were a lot of people in masks and gloves. There were bystanders that were handing out water bottles. They had gatorade jugs filled with water. Like, fill up your water bottles here. They had hand sanitizer. People were yelling, take care of

each other, um, so many different races and walks of life and, and different types of people. And it was, it was really, it gave me goosebumps. So it was a, uh, type of setting where it, it didn't feel dangerous, didn't feel like there was chaos around you. It was the type of peaceful protests that, that we're all hoping to see. Yeah. The curfew is sort of, you know, put in place, you know, to make sure. that people are off the street so as soon as that like four o'clock bell hit they're you know people

started to say they're starting to arrest they're they're cornering people to arrest people so got out of there um kind of quickly but um you know it was it was good and peaceful when when i was there for sure and uh you know the NFL obviously the America's most popular sport and it's a league by a black majority on the field. And we're hearing this week from so many players, so many players across the league, but also from coaches and owners in the aftermath of the George Floyd tragedy

and these protests that continue. So that is going to be in part, a large part of what our show is about today. We're going to talk about what we're hearing. And that's not all we'll be doing. We'll also be getting you caught up on the rest of the news around the league, however meager it may be. And also, we continue our Wheel of Teams series with the Tennessee Titans and Paul

Cuharski's covered that team for years. What, Greg, have you been hearing this week? What's been resonating with you on the NFL front or otherwise? So much to choose from, but I think I got to start with Drew Breeze's comments today because they're the freshest. And they're getting, you know, the most vociferous reaction, I think, from players, from media, from a lot of people that, you know, he was on a Yahoo finance show and said, you know, that he would not be supporting any teammates that, you know, peacefully protested, you know, police brutality by taking a knee before, before games. And it's just interesting because, look, he's been saying, Drew Brees said this a lot.

He said it in 2017. He's saying it now. But I think the world's changed a little bit since then or reactions have changed since then. And you can see, you know, Saints fans are kind of having gallous humor with it being just like, okay, James Winston's our quarterback now, you know, and just everyone, you know, like, like, Like it would take a lot for Drew Brees to lose New Orleans, and I don't necessarily think that's going to happen in the long run.

But that the anger at him for these comments are real. And he's already now talked to the ESPN reporter about it and trying to explain what he's talking about. But it just... I think it's fair to hear what Breeze had to say and give the context he was set up on by the person. interviewing him that it's expected or a lot of people now assume there will be more kneeling and what Breeze had to say exactly. Let's listen in. Well, I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America or our country. Let me just tell you what I see or what I feel when the national anthem is played and when I look at the

flag of the United States. I envision my two grandfathers who fought for this country. during World War II, one in the Army and one of the Marine Corps, both risking their lives to protect our country and to try to make our country and this world a better place. So every time I stand with my hand over my heart, looking at that flag and singing the national anthem, that's what I think about. He added that to him the civil rights movement in the 1960s. To him, that represents the flag as well. And I just, I guess the one thing that listening to him speak on it, and Mark, I'm curious, your thoughts on this as well, listening to him speak on it, I think there is a line of delineation that should be drawn.

And I, and it was social media the way it is, that doesn't always happen. There's a, there's a rush to judgment and to pull one quote and say, okay, he's on, he's on the wrong side of history with this. And I'm not necessarily saying I agree with Breeze. But I also think there's a difference between what Breeze is saying there and some of the, rhetoric that was connected to with our own President Trump and other people that said that Colin Kaepernick using him as obviously the most prominent example of all this, that he was wrong and was un-American and unpatriotic. I don't think that's what Breeze is saying.

I think what he's saying is he comes from a family where the flag and patriotism is ingrained in him. And when people kneel in support. court of or in protest of injustice, social injustice, and police brutality, he doesn't think it's the right forum, but he also doesn't think it's an act of gross, you know, traitorous or treasonous acts. He said it was disrespecting the flag, though. I mean, he was pretty clear on that.

And I think Michael Thomas's response is instructive, which is just, we don't care if you agree. And basically, he's taking a time where I think a lot of people are saying, just listen to what the people are saying. No one's saying you have to do anything. No one's saying that you have to have to kneel, but we're asking you to listen to us what we're actually saying when we kneel. And he's saying, you know, no, that's a disrespect of the flag. And it's just, it's just a moment where, you know, if you say those things, Drew Brees knows, Drew Brews knows, I think, on some level what the reaction is going to be. He's smart enough to know that. I think, you know,

for me, I think we're all at the age where we had grandfathers who fought in wars, and we haven't had to do that. And so I don't take that part of it lightly, but it's a disconnect because I think it's, you know, how many players at this point have eloquently described why Colin Kaepernick and other players were kneeling and separating it from this really a whole separate movement of like, don't disrespect the flag. I just don't see that that is at all. what the heart of the matter is with Colin Kaepernick.

It's much closer to what people are protesting about right now and injustices that have, you know, raged on in this country up to 400 plus years. So I think it's, it's, I have no problem with Drew Brees taking some heat for this because I just think he's missing, he's missing that side of it. Or he didn't, if, to your point, Dan, if we don't have the full wide view of what he had to say about this, I don't think he seems to have connected with, at this point, something that should be very clear to every player and most fans.

And even on our last show when we brought up Colin Kaepernick, I mean, I'm getting tweets from people saying, you guys are clowns, you don't know what you're talking about. And we're a very divided country. To me, and it's similar to the Vic Van, the Vic Fangio comments, which when I saw them literally as he, you know, I saw them being tweeted out as he was saying them. And you just knew it was going to get some pushback from players.

And in those comments, do we have those queued up? Either way, they were about. You got those, Ricky? But basically, he, you know, he doesn't see. Let's hear from Prajillo on this. Yeah. I think our problems in the NFL along those lines are minimal. We're a league of meritocracy.

You earn what you get. you get what you earn I don't see racism at all in the NFL I don't see discrimination in the NFL you know we live in a great

atmosphere like I alluded to earlier we're lucky we all live together joined as one for one common goal and we all intermingle and mix tremendously

you know if society reflected in an NFL team, we'd all be great. And I think there's a lot we would probably agree with. There's some that we would agree with in that, but I think it is a time when you're talking like this that you have to be aware of the larger picture. And I think people are learning on the fly. And they're learning on the fly with microphones in their faces.

But it doesn't surprise me that a number of players immediately started tweeting about A, how the league's, you know, treated Kaepernick, B, like putting out, you know, okay, Pete Carroll's got four different carols on his staff. Is that a meritocracy? Colin Kaepernick's not in the league. And then more than anything, the league literally is admitting they have a massive problem at almost every level of the league that they're trying to correct, you know, with hiring practices. So when he says that, I don't think he has any malice to it. And he probably has his own experience of how he came up through the system.

But that doesn't really excuse you from seeing like the larger picture. And it's probably a risk and a concern. you're going to have players that are going to hear that or you're going to have teammates of Drew Breeze that are going to hear what he says and they're going to be turned off from that. And then, yeah, like you said, hopefully they have a dialogue and they figure it out. He has, yeah, that's exactly the type of thing. He needs to address that with the team and explain where he was coming from

because he definitely, it comes off as a guy as a coaching lifer who took a long time to get a head coaching job. I think he's looking at it through that lens in terms of meritocracy, earning the gig. But he's talking from a position as a head coach where there's four coaches of color, head coaches of color out of 32. So that is just not going to go over well.

Maybe it's different. And on the side of the roster when it's making strides to find a roster spot, but that's not such a great soundbite when you look at the makeup of the league. Can I throw one out where I thought someone made ground in a positive way. Please.

Yeah, I'll hear it. Yeah, I'd point to Bill O'Brien, who, you know, on this show for football matters, takes a lot of arrows from members of this podcast. And, you know, I think rightly so. But Bill O'Brien, the man, and I think that, you know, I think this was definitely made very lucid and clear during Hard Knocks. I think his heart came through in his comments. And I would just say, go read it for yourself because there's an interview he did.

And he has some other quotes out there as well. I think this is the counter of wanting to understand, acknowledging that you have shortcomings and understanding what some of your players deal with as men, what their families deal with, what their children deal with. But Bill O'Brien, to me, I just thought that's the most heartfelt approach you can take is you want to listen and learn and find a way to take action versus where you can. And I think a head coach has an incredible platform to take action. And he seems wedded to that task.

I would say also, and it is not the same issue, but Bill O'Brien has a special needs child and in a different way. And we have some of that in our house too. When you raise a special needs child, you understand someone who is starting from a different place than others, who in this case probably look just like them. So it's a different issue. But you have to foster and care for that person's journey and set expectations and use a lot of love. And Bill O'Brien, if you go back to that Hard Knock series, I mean, I saw him as a completely different human being when you went into his house and saw what his family looked like and what the challenges were there as parents. And so I just think naturally, you know, for all the for all the questionable trades and all the other stuff that Bill O'Brien might do inside the team building,

he's a good man. I think he's someone who's trying. I don't know what else you can ask of these coaches right now than to try and to find a way to take action. And he got like a really strong response immediately from his players, including Michael Thomas, not the Michael Thomas he know from New Orleans, but one who's kind of been around the league, but has been a very vocal voice on police brutality over the years. And he said he appreciate it. And I've seen that in a few spots. It's like Sean McVeigh talked about how emotional, you know, they took Monday off and then they spoke to the team and but mostly listened and it was, you know, 100 people on a Zoom class. And he says it was extremely emotional. And the, and the player's response from that was really positive that they feel like they're being heard. And I think that's, that's all any, you know, that's all the play, you know, you think you're looking for as an organization to move forward. It's such a unique time in it. And it's added unique, you know, because they're all in their houses.

They're all on Zoom classes like we are in separate right now. So it's just, it's disorienting. But I think the coaches that have kind of need to handle it well, like any organization needs to handle it well right now. And the NFL is no different. That's Steve Weiss, who was on our show Monday. He made a comment along the lines of if the coaches don't address the stuff and communicate with the players, they're going to lose the team. And that's exactly what a smart, good communicator and a good head coach like Sean McVeigh is doing. Pete Carroll is another guy who he was on a podcast, The Ringer, is Flying Coach podcast with Steve Kerr and Greg Popovich and Colin Kaepernick, who obviously is a towering figure in this conversation.

Carol, I thought, said some really good things about Kaepernick and where he all fits in on this. Let's listen to Pete Carroll. Well, I think that there was a moment in time that a young man captured, and he took a stand on something, you know, figuratively took the knee, but he stood up for something he believed in, and what an extraordinary moment it was that he was willing to take. But what happened from the process is it elevated an awareness from people that just took everything away from what the statement was all about, and it just got. tugged and pulled and and ripped apart and the whole mission of what he with a statement was that was such a beautiful it's still the statement we're making right today is it that we're not we're not protecting our people we're not looking after one another we're not making the right choices we're not following the right process to bring people to justice when when actions are

taken you know and uh so i think it was a a big sacrifice in the sense that that you know that that a young man makes but those are the courageous moments that some guys take and you know we owe a tremendous amount to him you can't listen to Carol and not at least think about like how closely tied they were to Kaepernick

and it's and it is a tricky spot for the entire NFL I think back to Tuesday because Eric Reed you know they were doing the blackout tweet some of the teams did that where they you know they posted the black square and we don't need to get into all that but Eric Reed you know

retweeted that, the old 49er teammate of Colin Kaepernick, and just said, like, it's blackball Tuesday. It's not blackout Tuesday. And listening to Carol, it's hard not to think about how close he said they were to signing Kaepernick a few different times, and it didn't happen. And they're still, you know, employing my guy, Gino Smith. And we don't need to get into all the reasons for that or whatever. But I think there's a lot, a big segment that's going to listen to someone like Pete Carroll

and said, well, sign him then, you know? like then like that's just fair statement you can make that's just fair are all kidding about Gino Smith aside right I mean is there what's the upgrade what's player wise is I guess here's the thing we talk about that with Steve also this is going to be the third

full season Kaepernick's been out of the league so there's another element with him now it used to be just like is he better than all the backups and some of the starters now enough there's been enough distance where he's been out of the league long enough and that I mean that's a Another thing working against him.

It's out four years. And, you know, John Riggins was out like four years and came back at 35. So it is a factor for sure. But I think at least for now, he's young enough. Not that I expect. It doesn't help his cause. I guess is what I'm saying. It does not help his cause.

Yeah. All right, boys, let us spin into other NFL news, kind of news, as we call it. Let's start with Roger Goodell announcing that there will be no traffic. traveling for training camps or joint practices. So all camps are going to be held at the respective team facilities and joint practices, which are the Ravens and, I don't know, the Browns get together for a day or two of practices. That kind of stuff is not going to happen this year. That's become more and more popular in recent years.

So that will be different. So they are still, Greg, kind of have an eye on training camp going on as scheduled, but it will be different than past years. Yeah, it'll be really different for teams like the Steelers who have been going to the same college, I think, for over 40 years, 50 years, something like since the 60s. So a lot of teams already practice at home. That's not going to be a big difference. But the non-joint practices shows it's going to be different. And sort of as part of this, I just want to throw out that Sean McDermott today Wednesday said, you know, kind of wondered about whether the preseason is going to.

really happen and it just and let let it be public that there's been conversations about that like whether that's going to be just because if you think about it like there hasn't been any players on the field all offseason now we're showing up you know for a different sort of training camp and are they going to feel like the players are ready to play a game within two weeks of showing up like that it's just something to keep an eye on it's nothing official But it wouldn't surprise me, it just is logical that the preseason might get knocked down. They were trying to knock it down anyway. So it kind of makes sense.

I wonder if it paves the way like how you're seeing now of certain businesses, Facebook, a notable example, after they saw that, oh, our operation can still work and thrive business as usual with everyone working from home. If it takes an event like this, a life event to show, well, not only we not need four preseason games, we don't need three or maybe even two or maybe even one. Maybe this is something that is a catalyst for change in a more extreme fashion, we'll have to see. And since we're talking about the schedule and everything,

I saw that the NBA has kind of come together on a proposal for resuming their season. And under their proposal, the NBA finals, their championship series, would be in October, which is just wild. It's customarily in June, of course, which would put the NBA playoffs and the NFL regular season head to head for the first time ever. So you want to talk about something that's different than past years, that is very different. Sign me up. Then what?

You start the next NBA season like 12 days later, November? Yeah, that's what I was wondering the same thing. I don't know how that all works. I think that they're going to adjust, yeah, they're obviously adjusting that too, that they Or they find out, wait a minute, we can steal ratings away from the NFL. And you talk about, Dan, you know, workplace shifting the season begins in all. August every year. Well, I think...

Right up against the Super Bowl in the playoffs. See you later, Titus. There's been a push, I think, or a thought in the NBA that they could own the summer more in, and end more in August. Not to go up directly with the NFL, but kind of wrap up as the preseason's on. And this might be a way to do that, that they just push back the NBA season a couple months. It makes a lot of sense, the less against football, the better.

You start in December, January, and then, you know, it makes sense. Everybody knows, unless you're a diehard NBA fan, most NBA fans kind of view the Christmas latest game of games as the time where you start to plug in on the NBA. So that would make a lot of sense. The NBA season starts Christmas Day with three premier games and then you start rolling. But hell, you know, who the hell are we to judge what's going on over in the NBA? In other news, Ian Rappaport has reported or saying that the salary cap in the NFL could, go down in 2020. This is all tied, of course, to the COVID-19 and the idea that there may not be a season. If there is a season, there might not be any gate and no fans in the stands. There's a very

good chance of that happening. And as a result of that, spending would be less and the cap would go down for the first time in a long time. Adam Schefter over at ESPN had floated this a couple weeks back as well. So that also, and think of that, you got to keep that in mind, Greg, with things like Patrick Mahomes' contract, Jamal Adams' contract. These teams have to be wary that they can't just assume the cap's going to be $200 million next year because it might be far south. I think it's at 196 right now. And it's a huge flip of what was conventional wisdom, which is that these TV deals are coming up and that the cap is going to explode. And I think again, of owners probably expect that in the long run. But you're right, Dan, in terms of the next

year or two, we'll see these TV deals being up. I mean, it's a, you know, it's a different world and trying to predict financially how it's going to happen. Like, even the NFL can take a hit. Yeah, I mean, the most real thing is money to these leagues, all these leagues. And I, you know, all this stuff in flux. And I, and I realize that there's, you know, the, the joke of the week is coronavirus is over and it vanished away, but, you know, we don't know that either. And all of this is just speculation. The one thing we do know is that it's very likely that even if Corona has suddenly vanished into the ether, that would be magical. That fans of the spans is not going to be happening probably two months from now. It would probably be scattered fans or a certain amount

later in the year. But the hit financially will be real. It's sneaking up here. Camp is like seven or eight weeks away. It's really not that far. It's not that far. I feel it coming. In a normal world, this would be the time where we're nice and loose,

getting ready to go on our vacations and get some time away. Not for you, sir. Not for you. Finally in the news. I'm going to read this directly from, I suppose he's a pro wrestling writer for ESPN.com, Tim Fioravante. After his 58 days of holding gold,

Rob Grincal. Grunkowski's championship reign in the W.W.E. has officially come to an end. WWE aired a vignette Monday that showed Bruncowski walking into his backyard in Foxborough, Massachusetts. Our truth, that's R-Hifin Truth, who has been the most prolific holder of the WWE 24-7 title since its inception in May 2019, won the belt for the, how many times, Mark? 12. 36th time by disguising himself as a landscaper and blind. mind-siding, Grank, for the pin.

And if everyone's confused right now, and you're thinking about what? How could that be? How could that be? The primary attraction of the WWE 24-7 championship is that it is to be defended anywhere at any time without warning. Granc won the title at WrestleMania 36 in April. Please.

I mean, it's a disgrace to the legitimacy of this award of the belt, that it can just be taken. away on TikTok. When I was a kid, you know, these belts meant something. Right. This is really, it's really sad. Where have you gone, Tito Santana with the intercontinental belt strapped around your waist? I'm with you guys. So if you don't have TikTok, it's over. You don't even know about Grank if you're, well, they aired it. It looks like on their telecast. Well, Ricky, you're on TikTok, aren't you? Did you see this? I am. I didn't see that one specifically, but yeah, I am.

I am on TikTok. Did you see him win in any of his 35 other belts? Yeah. You see Ron Killings when any of his 35 other belts. Yeah, you lost me at wrestling. Like, I don't care. I mean, the hits against Ricky continue to pile up. Always.

Always. Like, I hear I am just sitting here, like, listening to you guys. Like, I'm being nice. I'm not live tweeting your dumb thoughts. And now you lose your title. And I'm with you guys. the WWF championship belt, the intercontinental title, and the taggy belts. That's it.

Yes. That's it. Yep. Let's calm down. Yep. A noble time. That's what's happening in the news. Dave Gronk, by the way, you know, there's all this talk.

It's like, oh, gronk's going to be a big star afterwards. Like, what a wacky personality. Really? I don't know. I think people are going to get tired of Gronks acting or doing just about anything pretty quickly. It's like one of those things. Can I say that on this podcast two years ago? Probably.

Probably. Well, you were right. The public finds Peyton Manning funny. He was like, who should we do a nine-part doc about? Gronk? It's like what? He's like, you know, he's like a plain bowl of cereal, please. You won't say this when he was on your favorite team.

I just, I'm going to point that out. He's the greatest tight end of all time, but you don't need to, you know, keep, he's not going to, like, take over Hollywood. You were right about that, Dan. That's what's happening in the news. We'll never see this run again, Jim. Brady's pass. It's intercepted and returned for a touchdown by Logan Ryan, the former Patriots.

That should have started you could have for Tennessee. Tattahill. Looks for the home run ball. Separation. Khalif Reagan pulls it in. Touchdown Titans. Wow. A deep one, 45 yards.

Directs down. Henry, jump pass. Oh, trickery. Corey Davis. Touchdown, Tennessee. The Tennessee dazzle for the Titans. The Tennessee Titans are the next team up in the wheel of teams on the round of the NFL podcast.

The Titans 9 and 7 last year. Second in the AFC South, but then won two playoff games, including knocking off the Patriots in Foxborough, then shocking the Ravens on the road. their season ended in the AFC title game against the Chiefs, but even that was looking very good for a bit. And now the Titans are back looking to take that next step. And to join us on this conversation is Paul Kuharski,

who has been covering this team down in Nashville for a long time. And you could check out his writings at Paul Kajarski.com. And he talks on midday 180 down there. Paul, welcome to the around the NFL podcast. Thanks for having me, gentlemen. How are we doing? Good, good. We're good.

we're good uh paul so this is an interesting situation right now because the the titans they had this great run in the playoffs they decided to essentially bring back the core of the team this is not a team that's had a huge amount of turnover they get derrick henry on the franchise tag they have uh ryan tannahill in the fold but how many times will we see in the team that thinks they're one step away keeping it all together and then it doesn't work out. Was there any concern to you in terms of team building this offseason that they maybe were a little overconfident with last year's team? Or do you think this is the right path to take, basically taking another crack at it with

this core? Yeah, I don't know what the other course was. I mean, to me, the other course was Tom Brady, probably. And, you know, it seems not to be a long-term course if you were going to take a run. with Tom Brady, obviously Mike Grable, very close friends with him, John Robinson, the GM also with Patriot ties and knows him. But it seems like Tannahill with what he did, which was really incredible. I would expect he regresses somewhat, but he was the right guy for this team. And I think he earned himself a contract. You know, it's a run-based, defense-based football team in a lot of

ways. And I think Vrable has proved himself to be a pretty good coach so far. Players are developing under him and his coaching staff. The division's not great. And I think they've got stuff to build on. And rather than look at the chiefs as the main obstacle and say what Denver and Oakland are saying, hey, we're going to try to match them on offense, the Titan said, hey, we got to that AFC championship game against them. We were in it for a while. We're going to continue to try to build what we are

and see if we can't hang with them and ultimately beat them like we did in the regular season, as we are with a ball control offense and by being better at defense and trying to stop them with a different identity instead of trying to keep up with them with their identity. Well, one follow-up to that, I mean, you look at Tannahill last year, and if you wanted to be a nitpicker, you could say looking at his career from a broader sense, it was a bit of an aberration in terms of his metrics, a lot of his stats.

Do they think in-house the way their offense is set up that they're going to get Ryan Tannahill doing the same thing two years in a row? And I guess as maybe that Jaguar's Beach Lady once said, you know, take it to the limit. just as they did a year ago? Well, I don't think they're going to come out and publicly say, listen, we're not going to get 9.6 yards per attempt and a completion percentage over 70%. He was only the third guy in history to top those numbers

with Sammy Baugh and Montana, I think. The only guy really ever to have numbers that high in those two categories. But even if you regressed a little bit in both of those, those are still some very, very good numbers on a team that's based on the play action, based on Derek Henry with an ascending A.J. Brown, with an ascending Johnny Smith. So I think, you know, do they look at that and say this is the most stability that we've had at quarterback in a long time is he surrounded by the best cast of characters that he's been

surrounded by in his career. If we can keep him healthy with this offensive line, which was also on the upswing at the end of the year, I think it's not unreasonable for them to expect it to be as good. I'd have the question maybe a little bit more about Derek Henry just because he had 386 carries. And we know how guys after 386 carries tend to do the year after. And so I think that's part of why Darrington Evans is the third round draft pick. He's a change of pace. Dionne Lewis was a big disappointment, particularly at his price tag.

And they need to get more out of the different running back, the third down running back. They need to get more out of the running back in the passing game than they were out of Dionne Lewis. And to me, that's the one new dynamic they're getting. next year this this coming season offensively as compared to what they got last year. Yeah, you mentioned Vrable being, you know, you think he's been a pretty good coach and I agree. And I think John Robinson's been a pretty good general manager.

If you really look at the picks he's made since he's arrived, he's got a vision. It's like they are the, we look great coming off the bus team, you know, like all of our guys are bigger than the prototypes at their position. And it's worked. Henry kind of symbolizes that in a way, even though, you know, he's been there for four years. Do you think this is Henry's last year, though? I think it's going to be one of the big decisions of Robinson Brable era. And I know it's going to depend on what he does somewhat this year.

But let's say he takes a little step back, but he's still solid. Do you think they put the tag on him kind of with the idea of the Cowboys back in the day with DeMarco Murray? Like, let's get our use out of him and let's not give him that Todd Gurley contract that the Rams got stuck in. I could see them tagging him again next year. and milking it out that way. I could see a three-year deal if he'd take it where he gets the insurance of getting the money up front so he's not completely undone by an injury

where it would really be built on the two franchise tags. But yeah, I'm hard pressed to see them because they're intelligent football people. no matter how central he's been to the effort and may be to the effort going forward, getting caught up in one of these long-term contracts, second contracts for a running back, particularly Greg, one that is not a third down guy. He's not an every down guy. Right. He's an anomaly. And so he's really a two-thirds contract running back. He's made some plays catching passes, but he's not a natural pass catcher. You know,

it's been a surprise screen where even the catch doesn't look good. good, but then he finds space and he can take off and run away from people. He's just not a natural pass catcher. And to me, if you are going to spend money on a running back, he better be a three-down guy who can really do some things in the past game. And I can understand a Christian McCaffrey, whose contract, by the way, isn't as good as it looked on initial reporting, right? Derek Henry's taken on a leadership mantle.

He's a hell of a player. But there are limitations there, and history says a lot. And I don't think you can go against the grain on that. I really don't. And you can understand why Derek Henry's unhappy. You know, a lot of these guys, the top level guys, they don't want to get tagged for obvious reasons. But he hasn't expressed any unhappiness, by the way. He signed it.

He's going to be there. Any unhappiness has been behind the scenes. He said, I'm coming. He signed it pretty quickly. Maybe he just understands the way this operates in his position because he's damned if he do, damn if you don't. If he has another like monster 2,000 yard total season and he touches a ball 400 times and he wins a rushing title, that will be used against him because there'll be more quote unquote wear on the tires. He'll get tagged again, like Paul said.

If he has a bad season, oh, he's already wearing down. He gets like, he gets done in there too. So it's like where is the the happy medium that leads to him getting the deal that he wants? I don't know if it exists. He doesn't have the tread from the earlier years. mentioned DeMarco Murray. He was a backup to DeMarco Murray for his first season, for much of his second season. Then Lafleur was determined to give the ball to Dionne Lewis for much of his third season. He only took off really the last quarter of his third season and last year. So he had huge usage last year, but before that, he was not getting used up. So if you look at his usage to this point, it's not like a lot of those backs we're talking about, but still, we're talking

and second contract running back, and we know how those go. You know, like about a year ago, if someone said, who is Arthur Smith, I would have thought maybe he's a house painter, a gas station attendant. I don't know, just to get anyone in America. To the FedEx fortune. Sure, exactly, right? But it's, you know, I look at that offense and how much of his fingerprints are on that versus, you know, we have a team identity and you're just sort of going to, you know,

help finesse that team identity. I mean, is he, I'd like to know more about who he is, what kind of coach he is, how innovative you see him to be. Yeah, I mean, I think he deserves a lot more credit than simply plugging he in because he got a lot more out of it than Matt LaFleur, who's, you know, the genius who got the Green Bay job after one year. LaFleur, he. And, I mean, I like Matt LaFleur a great deal,

but Art Smith came in. A flamethrower. His only new piece, really, was A.J. Brown, who was above and beyond any reasonable expectation. And the Titans have gone something like 29 drafted receivers getting really limited returns. It was really funny because last year leading into the Patriots games, one of the writers up there wrote, you know, why can't the Patriots develop a receiver like the Titans have developed A.J. Brown. And for the entire existence of the Titans in Tennessee, their failure to develop a wide receiver has been an issue. They finally develop one, and the Patriots are beating, why can't they do it like they do it in Tennessee?

It hurts because Nikiel Harry, in many ways, is kind of a similar profile. And people thought that the Pats might take A.J. Brown. And that one could haunt them for a long time. But you're right. Corey Davis is a top five pick. He's entering his fourth year. Didn't get its option. And that's a one point.

point on Robinson, who you complimented, who has been very good, but he's got two first rounders in Conklin, who he didn't exercise the fifth round, fifth year option, and didn't deserve it, and Corey Davis, who he didn't exercise a fifth round option, and he didn't deserve it. So it hasn't, he's gotten better, Robinson, but those two early ones haven't really panned out as they should have. And on Arthur Smith, I think he's pretty damn creative. I mean, he struggled early, but he was missing his left tackle and Taylor Luan. He was keeping in somebody like Adam Humphrey to help out there. It was all a mess. Mariotta was not delivering. And once Tannehill came in, they really found some stuff. And the Titans, I've always, you know,

I've covered them since the beginning, since Houston. Every time you thought it was going to be an offensive football team, it always reverted back to a defensive football team. And here was a team that was scoring 30 damn points a week. Right. You know, something I'd been waiting for forever. And Arthur Smith was the architect of that, and he deserved all the credit. We're going to talk to him here in 25 minutes for the first time this off season about what's next. Nice job, Mark setting up with the question.

It all connected there. Mark Sessler, ladies and gentlemen. The answer was pretty damn good, too. Anthem was even better. But you mentioned Jack Conklin, and that's kind of the one other thought. thinking about this offense, Derek Henry, obviously so incredibly important to it. Some people point to Conklin leaves. He was blown the holes open.

Isaiah Wilson comes in as the first round pick. Is that going to be a potential big issue for this team with Conklin out the door? The way you describe Conklin makes me think maybe not. Well, I don't think in the run game. I mean, Dennis Kelly could start the first couple games because of all this missed time and how long it takes to get that off. offensive line cohesive and all of that. But Wilson as a run blocker, I don't think, is a big concern.

He'll mall people. You know, maybe he's going to miss occasionally as he grows into it. Pass protection, I think it would be a bigger concern there. And I think they'll help him out. But quite frankly, they helped Conklin out, even in his all-pro rookie season with tight ends and the like. And Darrington Evans, who I mentioned, the one thing Dionne Lewis did do well. was pass protect. And so we'll have to see how Evans does at that job. But I think it's a similar replacement, maybe potentially with more upside than Conklin, who I think, you know, is going to be

one of those guys. Like he's a good player, but he goes to Cleveland on that contract and they expect the second coming. You're killing Mark here. He's a Browns fan. And when he misses a block there, everybody's going to say, how could this guy that we paid all this money not make every single block? I thought he was supposed to be the next greatest right tackle in history. And the whole context changes for him. It's the Nate Soulder corollary. You know, you pay big money expecting a superstar and you don't get it. If he's Nate's Soulder, then the Browns are in deep, in deep trouble.

This was a very typical Titans conversation, by the way. We haven't mentioned the defense once. The defense is always just like, okay, the Titans have a defense. I mean, I think Jeffrey Simmons, you know, was brought in to replace Jarrell Casey. They got out of a lot of money. Jarrell Casey, nine great years, but starting to fade a touch. You would have wanted them to get more than a seventh rounder, but they got out of under $11 million. Good secondary.

Everybody automatically thinks that money's Jadavia and Clownies, and maybe ultimately it will be. Do you think they might actually pursue Clowney? I do. But he's going to have to come down. and price, and the physical's going to have to be, you know, good. So those two concerns. I think we're operating entirely on Clowny's timetable, not on the fans' time table and not maybe on, I don't think the team really cares about a guy missing Zoom meetings at this

stage, not to the degree fans do anyway. But I think Jeffrey Simmons will be good in there. I think the Titans have a pair of good inside linebackers. They've got this quilt of pass rushers instead of one guy. who's going to go get you 10, and they just can't find that guy. So maybe Vic Beasley's resurrected by Vrable, who's a good hands-on coach, and it's a prove-it year. If he proves it, that'll be something.

If he doesn't, they're patchworking it again. Secondary is good. Logan Ryan was a very good player here, but Mike Vrable has said that slot position is running vertical routes now, and Logan Ryan was very much a horizontal guy, and they need to be more vertical in that. Dory Jackson will be in there some. Christian Fulton will be in there some. Kevin Byard and Kenny Vicaro underrated duo.

A good secondary. It's very similar to the Patriots where it's like a good secondary. It's smart and you're not really sure where the one-on-one pass rushers are because $9 million for Vic Beasley could look like a disaster because he's done very little most years.

Yeah. They're counting on that one year where he had a big year that they could get that out of him And listen, you know, I want them to find the next Javon Kirst, the next Kyle Vandenbosch, but where do you find those guys? You know, one was a scrap heap guy that was a miraculous recovery. And I wrote the day when I was working at the Tennessean that they drafted Javon Kirst.

I remember my lead that day was there's one guy in this draft that could solve the Titans problem. Too bad, Javon Kirst isn't going to be there at number 16. And so, you know, they lucked into both of those guys. Well, how often do you lock into a premier pass rush? You mentioned the Tennessee and we'll sign off with this, Paul. And thank you for joining us. Back in January, the Tennessee in which I understand has undergone a lot of changes in recent years, wrote an article interviewing a member of the Around the NFL podcast about a derisive nickname for the Titans.

Was that you? And, you know, Paul. We thought this is the elephant in the room here. Paul, Paul took exception to it and fired off a few slings on Twitter. I returned fire, but it wasn't all-out warfare. I'd call it a little brush fire. And I would just like to say, Paul, in this time where we strive for unity in this country, the fact that you could come on the show right now and we could talk it out and not be, you know,

wanting to kill each other, that's progress. That's progress. Look, my, I have a first rule of comedy. Be funny. Okay. And so I don't think tight two. is funny. Right.

So that's my objection. Like if you want to take shots at the Titans, come up with a funny name and call them a funny name. I don't think Titans is funny. And I guarantee don't think the Tennessean, which has gone to hell and sucks, should be writing about you calling them the Titans and you making a declaration that they're now worthy of you

not calling them, your dumb nickname is news work. That's how bad the Tennessean is. I love this. The Tennessee has just done wonders covering the riots and the vandalism here and on that they're doing well in the sports section where tytoons to titans is news nobody should be paying a nickel for that well you know paul i think i think you're right and uh okay that's a wrap he thinks i'm right yeah i think i think you're right and uh i will say that

you should listen to our podcast for a little more context in the future it was more a way to uh rile up the Titans fans. And it certainly worked, not a piece of a comedic genius writing. I will say that. So I'm not saying you were wrong, ultimately. But again, we are out of progress here. Yeah, we are in lockstep on this. All right, Paul, thank you so much. Oh, good spirited. I enjoyed this conversation, which obviously, you know a lot about the Titans. And you can follow Paul Kowarski on Twitter at Paul Kowarski, NFL. And good luck in this Arthur Smith, Zoom call or whatever it's. Oh, yeah, it's high pressure. It's high pressure to ask a question that gets a good answer that I then see everywhere.

It's a lot of fun. Tough situation on the beat. All right, Paul, thank you. Great to me with me. I enjoyed it. Appreciate it. I see later. Here's my thinking on it.

I wasn't initially going to, I was going to feel it out. And he seemed like a very serious guy at first. And I was like, ooh, maybe I'm going to steer clear on it. But then as we got to know Paul and talk to him, It seemed like something that would be good to bring up. And we had a nice conversation. I would not. I would bring him back.

Yeah. Yeah, he's great. I would have not allowed that conversation to end. If you didn't bring it up by the end, I was going to is all I was thinking about the whole time. Let's, let's see these Hansa-Harski fireworks. You know, just fast forward to five years where I'm living in Nashville in a big house that I get, pay half the money for and I own it. And me and Paul have the biggest Titans podcast. in the nation. That's my big picture now.

You're going to live in, well, the Cutler household, I think it should be up for sale right now. There it is. They're moving out. I'll just slide right in there. I'll just slide right in. All right. Good stuff. That was fun. Just to put a button on kind of the Titans conversation here, Greg, you're doing, of course, your roster reset.

Projected starters. I always get those confused. There is a difference. But projected starters is your calm when you went through each division. And any kind of takeaways on the study of this roster that didn't come up in that conversation? I think it's the past rush, but I guess I did bring that up that, you know, it's a lot of what we talked about, expecting what was together last year to just be better. And that's a little bit of a danger. But I think they're hoping that some of these young players, whether it's Harold Landry, who really hasn't done that there's another first round pick. I guess Robinson struggled a little more in the first round than the rest of the draft.

Counting on Vic Beasley. It's weird because they're a great offensive team, and they were scoring like 30 a game, but can you outscore teams running the ball? They did it last year because they were so efficient. It's all on Tanna Hill, though. I think if Tana Hill could be a top 10 quarterback again, would that be the craziest thing in the world? I don't know.

Not in that offense. Seems a little bit crazy to me. me, but it's a little crazy, but he was like, you know, he was legitimately a top five quarterback half a season. So I don't, I, and he's never played outside of Miami before. So I guess I'm, I'm holding out hope. I think they need that, though, because otherwise, they only won nine games. I think that got a little loss in the shuffle is like, yeah, it was, it was an interesting team, but they pretty much won the exact same as the Mike Malarkey teams. You know, they, they've won nine, they're like the new Jeff Fisher Rams. They win nine games every season. So I guess that takes

to me, my final two questions, guys. So, Greg, if the Titans get back to the Super Bowl and it's been over 20 years or 20 years now, it will be because of. It will be because of Ryan Tannahill being a different quarterback. You're a star quarterback. There has to be a chance because I think there's this weird narrative because everyone just watched the two playoff games. It's like, well, all they did was run.

And like, you can't get away with that for the season. It's like, yeah, except when he threw it. the ball in the regular season, he was incredibly accurate, incredibly timely, threw the ball deep while. He did everything really well. And that was as, you know, when he talked about that Chiefs one, I mean, that game's in the 30s. They had a lot of games in the 30s. It wasn't all, Henry. All right. And Mark, I would like one word to describe the Titans right now. Well, we discussed this off there and it was going to be a phrase, Dan. So I'm going to give you a phrase. Yeah. All right. One phrase.

Greg just swacks poetic for like three minutes. I was just going to say, I literally said like 700 words for some reason. Let me set this up. All right. Let me reset the whole table for Cessler here. Mark, give me one phrase, and you're not limited to one word or one phrase. You could expound after that, but to set up the conversation, give me the phrase. Okay, I want to, I'm going to do this the way that I plan to do it.

The phrase to describe last year, which was a special year, is deep state disruptors. they did everything the NFL didn't really want them to do 2020 the phrase is keep playing the hits they basically running back essentially the same team they haven't had a transformative offense you can look to the rookie third down running back you can look to Vic Beasling a few in a new right tackle but they are hoping that what worked last year

will work again and I don't hate that idea because of who they are and who the roster is but that doesn't doesn't always work. Yeah, I got a bad vibe about it. And they're still as good as they were in those two playoff wins, like you said, they were nine-win team. And they need everything to go right and then, son,

to take the next leap, take a leap there. I'll set over under nine and a half wins. What do you guys got? I'm going under. And I think that division's a little better than people think. I'll go under, but I think you can get into the playoffs as a nine, nine and seven or nine, six and one type team. But if you think, if you think they're going to go nine and seven,

if you think they're going to go nine and seven, then how can you agree this is the right thing to do? I mean, isn't the goal to build a team that gets better? Who me? I'm saying keep playing the hits. I'm seeing keep playing the hits because they're in their mind, you know, they've made a hit record last year. They're not making a new one.

They're playing the same record again, hoping to get, you know, more money off of that, and we'll see if that works. I suspect that that may not work, is what I said. Nine and seven is possible. They need development from their young players because they actually have a pretty young team overall. Like, Johnny Smith, the guy, I think, could be like an all pro, and yet he hasn't, you know, he didn't totally put it together.

And if AJ Brown gets better, I mean, here's a guy who is one of the best rookie receivers we ever, you know, we've seen in a long time. If he gets better, that's their best hope. They're an interesting team. Yeah. Yeah, that's the problem is the, the whole tito. thing doesn't make sense because they are more interesting now. I thought that...

Well, if you recall, it was always about that they weren't interesting. Right. It's retired. It was more about that they were like kind of... It wasn't even like they were the worst team. They were just the least interesting. But now they're pretty intriguing. Titans taken a lot of heat on this episode.

It's not, you know, there's going to be a pro-Titunes move. I think everybody needs a history lesson on what the Titans was. Kaharski needed it. That was retired. That went away the moment that Marcus Marriota finally faded into the background. And then they said, let's take a look at Tana Hill. And then they changed some things up on offense,

got more aggressive. And all of a sudden, it changed everything for that team. So that's why I think they're one of the more interesting. My takeaway from that was he was much more mad at his former employer, the Tennessean, than he ever was at you personally. You were a good story, partners, though. Yes, we actually, I think went back and forth and then kind of landed at that juncture actually on Twitter back in January

that he was kind of unhappy with the direction of what was in his mind one of the great papers of the region. Anyway, that was good. Good show. We'll be back on Friday on network. How about that? The around the NFL broadcast

where we will talk to you about all the latest in the NFL, what's going on in and around the league. So make sure you check that out. Set your DVRs and if you want to watch it live, It is Friday, 6 p.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. Pacific. And we'll be back with another brand new episode of the podcast on Monday.

The train keeps rolling. Stan Hansa signing off for Quiet Storm, the old boss, Eric Hollywood, and West Hollywood. Till Monday. You know, Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies

to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind me. what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.