NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Playoff Coaches Draft; New Coaching Hires

Episode Date: January 8, 2020

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, Chris Wesseling and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news surround the National Football league starting with the newest coaching hires. Peter Schrager calls in to discuss the Panthers hiring Matt Rhule and the Giants hiring Joe Judge. (3:49) The cowboys make it official with Mike McCarthy (29:23) but the Browns are still searching for a new HC. (34:35) The heroes close the show by drafting playoff coaches. (47:48)Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. Owns a small condo on Seahawks Corner. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis. to you from a room filled with heroes, Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal.

What is up, buoys? Hey, Dan. Does Greg pass the retina scan there in the condo on Seahawks Corner? Oh, no. And he's been cast out. He was cast out, and he was sniffing around. And we found him in the bushes a couple times on the compound, and we had to say, no, no, no, no, no. You got your chance?

That feels just. I mean, you know, it's a two-way relationship, and I've embraced it. Seahawks from, you know, head and toe. You've loved having you. Right. It's been great. It, like, it was pretty eye-opening for me to see the intensity with which Mark and Dan were rooting on the Seahawks last Sunday.

Oh, no, wait. They were like half asleep during that game. No, no, no. Mark fell in love with Josh McCown right around the second quarter, and that was his rooting in. They tested my loyalties because the Josh McCown narrative was pretty juicy and special. But, you know, in the end, I got it right. It was, well, it was a bit of a sleeping game. Right.

I'm not arguing. I had a pillow. So I did go get a Red Bull at one point during that game. That's right. You'd have crossed the street to 7-11. But in general, even though the Seahawks experience will end this upcoming weekend, I've really enjoyed my first year. Well, it's clearly not...

Just because you're at Seahawks's Corner doesn't mean you have to pick them to win the Super Bowl. They're playing a very beatable Packers team. But they have my support. I enjoy the quarterback. What's his name? Russell Wilson. Go Hawks.

And they also have that great fan base in the stadium. I just like the Seahawks. You got off the boat. I was on the boat. and it's led to submissions between us. So committed, you think they're going to lose to a fine Packers team. Man, the Packers disrespect out of Greg already. They're fine.

They're fine. A couple notes. A couple notes before we get in today's show, which is a good one. Our second episode, the Around the NFL broadcast on NFL Network, air is 6 p.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. Pacific. Set your DVRs. I assume you already set the season pass, so you're covered. but just in case, we're already in the planning stages behind the scenes for this week's episode. We're very excited about it.

And we have so much to do today. We have a guest. He's going to come up in just a couple of minutes. He's going to join us on the phone, Peter Schrager, to talk about the big head coach hirings. It just went down in the newsroom early this morning. Bang, bang, rule to Carolina, judge all rise to the Giants. so we're going to get to Peter who's going to talk about those two hires also the Cowboys made it official getting Mike McCarthy aboard so we'll talk about that also we got we're down to eight teams in the bracket okay the elite eight we're going to do a little draft the draft for us is over we're not doing any more drafts on Thursdays until week one next year however we're going to do a draft of the remaining head coaches and just so you guys know we're

We are drafting by age order. So youngest with the first pick, oldest with the final pick, and the snake. I don't know who's older between Wes and Mark, but I do know who's younger. I am older than Wes by a little bit, not a lot. About four or five months. So you'll have the snake, just a heads up for your preparation. Well, that is hideous. I'm winding up with at best the fourth rated coach.

Franchise and turmoil already. This was sort of hard, except I knew who the number eight was. And you're the closest to your 50s. so that's are you do you have any more nuggets ageism based nuggets you'd like to get out at this point just saying facts all right uh yeah a lot of fun stuff to get to but first west a little nugget just for you let's do some news riggy today the oilers meet the bangles of Cincinnati which was named this week as the city of the year by sports illustrated because of a sweep by the reds and an outspoken football coach sam white hoped to continue the championship rally for the queen city

Wes, I saw a note somewhere on the Twitterverse that today, January 6th, way back in 1991 on this same date was the last Bengals playoff win. And then I went and checked YouTube as YouTube's a great resource for these things and found the entire telecast. And right at the top, it sounds like Dick Endberg maybe. I thought that was Don Cricky. Don Cricky. Selling Cincinnati is the City of America.

Well, it was right after the Reds had won the World Series too, right? Yeah, the Queen City, West. And you call your friends and family chums for supporting the pro teams. What it is great. No, no, just the Bengals. All right. Now, we are very happy to have one of our favorites. You know them, NFL Network reporter.

You catch them at the sidelines at the biggest games. And, of course, he is one of the hosts, co-hosts of the Great Good Morning Football Program on NFL Network. It is. Peter Schrager, what's up, Pete? What's up, guys? You know, two years later, Nick Van Exel and the Cincinnati Bearcats, We're giving everyone a run for their money, too.

I'm just saying. Nick DeQuick, one of the most exciting college basketball players of the last 30 years. You just got like the first one, I want to say. Corey Blunt. Oh, yeah. Hurd Jones, Rod Monroe, Terry Nelson. I could name that whole starting five. You're bringing Wes right back in.

You just got a big fist bump out of West. I haven't seen him this excited about a sports team in a long time. Come back to Cincinnati, Wes. Well, don't leave us, but, and including the Bengals. Come back, be a fan again. This TV show takes off. Maybe I get a summer home now. Joe Burrow.

Here you go. All right. So here's the deal. Peter Schrager. We love him for his insight, and he's a good dude. And I was watching Good Morning Football just this morning. And Peter had some great takes on the head coaching situations in Carolina and elsewhere. So I wanted to go through the latest head coach news and TPed up for some of this stuff. But let's start with like kind of the stunning news this morning, really, that the Carolina Panthers had finalized the deal to bring Baylor, coach Matt Rule on as the fifth permanent head coach in team history. And Yahoo first had it. Rap sheet followed up with it. And Peter, this one really, I think, surprised people because the New York Giants is always that job, even if that franchise has been on a fall on hard times in recent years, that's a prestige job.

I believe you called it a Blue Blood franchise on GMFB. And yet, he doesn't even get up there. I mean, this thing, this caught everybody by surprise. Let me take it through a little bit of a timeline because I've had a real good chance to speak to a lot of people around the league since that news dropped. Monday was a day in Waco, Texas, for David Tepper and his group, which includes Marty Herney, the current GM, Stephen Drummond, who runs the PR department, but it's played a very big role also in sort of helping everyone vet these characters and these different coaching candidates. So they get down to Waco, Texas. and I explained this on Good Morning Football,

and I'll explain it to your listeners, and I'll kind of maybe go a little deeper than what people know about TEPR. Tepper, and I grew up in this area, Tepper is viewed as one of the biggest mavericks slash most successful hedge fund managers in the history of American finance. He went from Goldman Sachs and created his own hedge fund called Appalusa. That Appalusa hedge fund is worth billions and billions and billions of dollars,

and he's a Western Pennsylvania guy who did it pretty much on his own, and built this thing on his own, and when Enron went under, or a couple years back when banks like Lehman went under, what he did was he invested in the real world of American economy and doubled down on the banking system and doubled down on a lot of different assets that people were fleeing from and has made so much money being a guy who goes into rooms and closes. So when I heard that he had the first crack at Matt Rule, whether or not this was his guy or not. I didn't know what the situation was. I just knew that David Tepper was going to be sitting in the living room of Matt Rule in Waco, Texas, meeting with his family, and providing

what he can provide and offering what he can offer. I thought this is not looking so good for the Giants, because if Tepper wants this guy, he's got a blank check waiting for him, and he also is a trained care in getting deals done. So, from what I'm told, the pitch was this. It was essentially, I don't know what New York has going on. I don't know wherever else, everything else is going on. You've got a clean slate here. There's a blank check to give you whatever you want to build things here, and I come from the Pittsburgh Steelers' outlook of franchise building. I don't want to flip over coaches every two years. When I got there in Pittsburgh, it was three names, Chuck Noel, Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin. And that's been the case since 1970 in

Pittsburgh. That was the pitch to Matt Rule, and the pitch was, we want you to build this thing. It's a long-term build, and you can pick and choose what you need to have around you. I think at the end of the day, whether or not people are going to come out and say, well, the Giants actually didn't have him as their number one. You're going to hear a lot of stuff. It never was a situation where it got to that because they didn't even let him get on the plane. Were the Giants in your belief or anything that's floating around out there, were they overconfident in this situation? And did it expect to be? this to happen? Were they unprepared, not

understanding the background of Tepper? Like, what is the vibe that you're hearing or that you feel here? Tepper was to meet with a Monday. Rules was supposed to meet with the Giants Brass on Tuesday, and Tepper is Tepper. With the Giants Brass, it's John Mara, it's Steve Tisch, it's Dave Gettelman, it's contract

negotiator, Kevin Abrams. Right there alone, it's four different people with four different roles within the organization, two different owners, a GM, a contract guy who has a a much bigger role in that building than people necessarily give him credit for in Kevin Abrams. And I think at the end of the day, I was like, look, it's me and you, bud. Like, let's go and build this thing. Let's break it down and let's get it done. The Giants, from what I understand, fell in love with Joe Judge, and that could be fine,

and that could be their guy. But the fact that he didn't even get out of his living room before agreeing to a deal with the Baylor, I'm sorry, with the Carolina Panthers tells me a lot. There's been reports, and there's a lot going on, and you have to realize. there are agents for all these coaches there are team sources everyone wants to come out of this saying we got our first pick

he's ours we're happy we're ecstatic Joe judge blew the Giants away no doubt about it and the Giants are going to say look we've spoken to rules people this was a good fit for everyone and that's fine I would just say this when both New York papers

who are very connected with their beat reporters at the New York Giants have Matt Rule on the cover of their New York papers on Monday morning and the story by Monday at 9 a.m. in New York is that Matt Rules, the new coach of the Carolina Panthers, there might be a lot of scrambling going on saying,

okay, well, we actually really like this guy, and let's push that narrative, and let's push this guy. So we'll never hear if Matt Rule is the number one from New York, from New York, and Adam Schaefter tweeted out a very telling tweet saying, hey, that was a lot of media conjecture. That wasn't necessarily the truth of what was going on in the building. They wanted to meet Rule before he fell in love with him. But for several days now, a lot of people have been saying,

Rule of the Giants, McDaniels to the Panthers, and that was not the case. It's Rule of the Panthers, and Joe Judge to the New York Giants. I think it's quite illuminating to hear you talk about David Tepper, who we've tried to get to know and figure out from a distance here in the studio. And, you know, it's very clear to see his powers and abilities to sell the Panthers. And I think Panthers fans listening to you speak would be suddenly extremely encouraged, which with what's happening there, because I could look at a guy like Jimmy Haslam also learned inside the Pittsburgh Steelers organization and has done the absolute opposite

of what Teper is talking about building. What about Rule, though, sell, what did Rule do to sell this owner? Because he was inside the Jets building a year ago, and that fell apart for different reasons. But it just seems like this is someone who comes into programs and completely transforms them. Yeah, and if you think he's going to be one of these, how do I put it, so Cliff Kingsbury came in and wowed the Cardinals Brass, and is a totally different type of coach than Matt Ruhle. Kingsbury, I don't think he'd be insulted if I said he was a player's coach and empowers the player and says, I'm going to, you know, talk to them as peers and we're going to get the best

out of him. Matt Ruhler is no joke. He comes from a Parcell's background where that's his mentor in this industry. Obviously, he worked for Kaufflin, and he doesn't just build programs. He builds programs in his likeness. And I think what Teper and the Carolina Brass really enjoyed. we're really like that of him. He's no nonsense.

This is not Ron Rivera. This is not anyone that they've seen before. This is a guy who's going to build it from the ground up, and it's going to be a disciplinarian for a lot of different reasons. So whether or not he's 44 or anything, okay, well, he's kind of a peer to some of these players, I don't think that's that. I think he's so temper on saying, I'm going to build this thing. We're going to have a culture, first and foremost,

and no one's going to get away with anything. We're going to build it in a disciplinarian way, which I don't think players necessarily do flips for, but guess what? Get on board because every player that has been interviewed, and I'm talking Robbie Anderson, I'm talking Hassan Reddick. These guys say that Tepper changed their lives at Temple. I haven't had the opportunity to speak with any of the Baylor guys who's coached. I'm just talking about the different players over the past couple of years

because, guys, it wasn't just the Jets last year. Two years ago when McDaniels left them at the altar in Indianapolis, they were scrambling quite a bit, and they interviewed Matt Ruhl, and let me tell you, Matt Ruhl really impressed the Colts Brass, too. So he'd been through this a couple times before, Baylor paying him college football coach money, and when I say that, I mean, north of $5 million a year, you know, like he didn't need to leave Baylor for the Carolina Panthers. So I think he sold Teper, and I think Teper sold him, and they're going to ride this thing

together. Very curious to see who Matt Ruhl brings with him. We've seen a bunch of names tied to him. I'm not familiar with those names. One of them is Sean Ryan, I believe. The other one was Snow, who was a defensive coach with him at Baylor. I don't know those guys. Not familiar with their work.

Ryan had some NFL experience. But they're going to build this thing, not like a college program, but like an NFL program built in the likeness of a college coach. The informer guy? Phil Snow, who is his college guy. Oh, different snow. Had some time with the Lions. And then Sean Ryan, who's the Lions quarterback coach currently,

are reportedly going to be his coordinators. Don't know either one of those guys. Love the Canadian rapper, Snow. I loved Percy Snow, the old player, but I do not ever know Snow, but I do not know Snow. And I guess that shows my shortcoming sometimes as an insider. I don't know every single coach on every single staff. I'm sure he's wonderful, but that's not a name I'm familiar with,

and we'll go from there. Shrags, you and your brethren in the football insider industry, you guys mobilize immediately and fill our knowledge gap on Matt Rule. But one thing I've not heard from anybody today, Cam Newton appeared to be on the outs with Tepper. Do you have any insight into what Cam Newton's future is specific to Matt Rule? I don't, and I think that's a very interesting subplot, not only for the Carolina Panthers, obviously,

but for a lot of teams that are looking for quarterbacks this off season or could be looking for quarterbacks. And I think that's going to be the primary decision here, because I'll tell you guys, when the Giants come in and talk to you, they say, okay, Daniel Jones looks pretty established, Sequin Barclay looks pretty established, and you'd be able to build with this team. When the Browns come and talk to you,

they say, okay, well, Baker-Mayfield had a pretty good rookie year. Let's throw out the second year, but let's see you at least have something to build on here. The Panthers, I'm not sure if Cam Newton was the lead, the leading selling point on this one, and I'm also not sure that Matt Rule isn't like, hey, let me get a look at Cam first. Let me see if I can work with him, because Cam Newton's one of the greatest athletic talents

and one of the better quarterbacks we've seen in the past 15 years. So, fascinating to see how that plays out. I do not have a pipeline on what Matt Rule thinks of Cam Newton. I'd argue that Tepper did not rule out Cam Newton by any means either. They could have made those moves already, and they could have come out of the gate saying that. I almost got the feeling Tepper was trying to slow the role on the idea that Cam Newton was heading elsewhere, that that noise might have been coming either from the front office, from Newton's cable. Who really knows?

I mean, John Ruhl, I mean, Matt Ruhl's getting hired. I'm sure he's a great program builder. He's stern, he's all that. Like, he's not getting hired unless he was known for an innovative spread offense. And we're in the year 2020, and that's what he's bringing. He's not getting a seven-year contract, which is as long as we've seen, I think, in NFL history. Well, Gruden. For a first-time coach to get a seven-year contract that, you know, could go at $62 million base.

Like, that's fine. He's doing it because he has an idea of how to run offenses into the next decade. And Cam Newton seems to fit that pretty well if you don't have other good options. Like I would imagine that that would be an intriguing plan A or B for rule. On the flip side also, though, you could see it as you have a Grudenesque runway to do whatever you want. And that includes tearing this thing down to the studs. Before we let you go, Peter, back to the Giants and Joe Judge, who had been. obviously another Belichick disciple, the special teams coordinator, he's worked with the

wide receiver group. This one, it was like a double shock because you had, whoa, rules not going to the Giants, and then before you could process it, bang, they hire this guy, Judge. What have you heard about him? What is the buzz around this guy? Was this somebody that was in demand behind the scenes? What's the deal here? I'll give you the other shock to it.

There's a third ripple to this. So Josh McDaniels was supposed to interview with the Panthers today by 9 a.m. you know, rules called the head coach, and then he's supposed to interview with the Giants tomorrow, and by 10 a.m., the Giants have a head coach, and it's not him, but it's his colleague who is the special teams coordinator and the wide receivers coach. Here's what I've got on Joe Judge, and I've got to be completely honest, again, a vulnerable spot here from me when I say that I knew he was interviewing, and I have been told about Joe Judge throughout this season as a potential candidate, but I do not know Joe Judge personally. I like to think

I know just about every coordinator in this league or head coach, and I go out of my way to me, I don't know Joe Judge, but his story is very interesting in that he went and worked for Sabin and then came with Belichick, and I know the Giants. That is very appealing. Now, special teams coach, he's not your exes and old guy. He's not your spread offense guy. He's certainly not going to be your defensive.

Let's coach him up. Special teams coach means he is a football guy who is going to run through a wall and is going to have your team well-coached and prepared. That's a special teams coach to me. So Joe Judge, honestly, that's not going to be the Cliff Kingsbury, wow you with the spread offense, and it's certainly not the Wink Martindale. I've been around for 15 years coaching defenses, and these guys are going to respect me. This is more of your CEO type.

He's got the respect. I know in New England, I've spoken a lot of those guys. They're like, no, Joe is the absolute man. But to not even meet with McDaniels, who was, you know, in all the way. lot of people's minds, at least going to get a look from the Panthers and Giants is what shocked me the most on this one. The rush to hire Joe Judge an hour after Rule was hired, not to say that the two things that anything connected with them, but shows me that either A, Joe Judge blew them away in the

meetings, or B, they're like, crap, rules are number one, he's our number two, before another team, the Browns, for example, can get their hands on Joe Judge, let's make sure he's ours we like him. Well, Ian indicated that the Mississippi State football job was Joe Judges, and that affected the timeline that, you know, he had to either say yes or no to that college job. And I'm not surprised that McDaniels, I'm surprised he didn't get the interview.

I'm not surprised that the Giants didn't even want to do it because I think McDaniels was a non-starter because Gettleman is there, which is the same reason why Matt Rule might have been a non-starter too. There's no indication that. that Josh McDaniels would have ever come into a place where he didn't have some level of control or at least a strong relationship with his front office and working under Dave Gettleman,

who might be starting off on the hot seat, doesn't sound like something he would have been interested. And so I think if you're getting McDaniels, you're getting a whole package. And the Giants basically chose Gettleman over having flexibility because... It's a great thing. I mean, Matt Rule, too, I think that had to be,

something that was concerning for Matt Rule that you're basically inheriting Gettleman and Gettelman's in charge. I'm not going to say that Marty Herney isn't as, you know, authoritative or doesn't have the same trigger as Dave Gettelman does, or power of the trigger as Dave Gettlement does. But I would say that Marty Herney, who's still there in Carolina, met with Rule, and Carolina, he met with BN and he met with Liddle, and it's like, Marty's going to work with you, and we're going to figure it out. I don't know necessarily if that's the case in New York when you meet with the Giants. If it's, hey, Gettelman's going to work with you or you're going to work with Gettlement.

And I'm a Dave Gettlement fan. I think Dave Gettlement done some bold, big swing moves, but I also think at the end of the day, if you look at the Giants and what they have in salary cap and some of the talent that they do have on their roster right now, it's not a terrible situation for a head coach to walk into, but you better be able to work with that general manager, and you better be able to want to work with that general manager. So to your point, Greg, when the Panthers come to you and say, it's a blank slate, do what you want, and then the Giants come and meet with you, and there's four people in the room,

and it's, hey, sell yourself on the Giants, things get a little different. Peter Schrager, you came and you did the damn thing. I mean, I'm watching you on TV, and I'm like, man, he's wearing a great bomber, and he looks comfortable up there, and he's just delivering the information. You're a vital piece of the puzzle there, and a very successful show that we all love. So thank you for coming on and giving us the info that we needed. What a guest. I'll tell you guys this really quickly.

I'm on a flight to L.A. last Friday, 3 p.m. Pacific, 6 p.m. Eastern. I'm watching some rerun of an NFL regular season game on the NFL network. I'm about to change it. And then you guys came on and a smile from ear to ear on my face, and I loved it. I thought it was great. And if the network executives are listening, why not? Let's give these boys on the TV show of their own. Let's bookend this thing with our little.

for some, your for some, you guys have Erica, we got Will Selva, let's go and roll, let's do this. Which one of the four of us were you most impressed with? I got to say, Mark, you had this incredible, like, one-minute monologue where you, what was going on with that video feature, and there was, like, spookiness going on, and there was a boat, and I couldn't follow it for the life of me, but there was teams being washed up onto shore. Oh, yeah. That's not my kind, that's not my wheelhouse.

I enjoyed it. I had no idea what the hell was going on. That was not the answer, Mark. I was seeking something else there, but that's okay. Thank you, Peter. I liked it, bro. For our support. I also wanted to congratulate.

We've really enjoyed your performance, too, on those little promos, where it's like the playoffs, NFL Network, and you're doing the little point. It's like K in the front, and you're in the back, and you're just like, hey, I'm a guy, I'm pointing. And then it's like Irvin with the football. That stuff is good. You would love this. They handed me a football.

I love the football. You're like, just play with the football. And I'm like, I can't, because I know you're going to end up using that. and I'm going to get made fun of holding and spinning of football. It's not me. I mean, you've done that show long enough now where you've got to be at the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours thing.

You've got to have the whole thing mastered at this point. Yeah, and my rule is no phone. I'm not staring at. I'm not like doing the, and I'm not knocking on you because he actually does have the phone in his hands at all time. Poor guy. I'm not defined by that, and I'm also not going to be spinning a football

next to Nate Burles. You're not going to put Schreger in a box. You won't. All right, Peter. Thank you, buddy. Thank you. There he is, Peter. Schrager. That guy does the damn thing. He's knowledgeable and he's really good at his job and a nice fit here on the pod.

He's got his ear to the ground like an old war chief, waiting for the drums to start to kick off. You know, he knows when the battle's coming. He knows everything ahead of time. We do like to occasionally dip into reporting of our own and I think that we could even convince ourselves at moments that we have inside information. But it feels like a child compared to what he's offering. And yet you can bring up anyone and he knows everything. And yet in a very Patriots manner, he still doesn't know Joe Judge. I mean, Joe Judge is about as under the radar as a head coach is. I mean, he's pretty young guy. Like, even Patriots fans don't know anything about Joe Judge,

other than he works with Receive. Bill Belichick actually, this floated around. He had a long statement from this past summer about Joe Judge and basically said he can coach any position on the field. He had a lot of faith in him. I would imagine because Bill Belichick is such a special team's obsessive. of special teams historian that you're not going to just hand that role to anyone he must feel the world about by the sounds of it when you do look back at the quotes belichick said he clearly

believes that joe judge can be a great NFL head coach and that he was kind of taking him under his wing in a in a in a unique way meeting with him weekly you know maybe compared to any other coach i can think of maybe other than McDaniels but to Peter's point which i thought was a good one when you take a special teams coach, who's a guy that's usually, you know, a guy that's about playing hard, X's nose, go get it, energy, and you put him at the head coach

at a time where the league is about finding the next architect, the next brilliant guy that can take your offense to another level. It does feel like a Dave Gettleman hire that it's like football's about hot and it's about passion, it's about being on time and making the plays when you need to make it.

Maybe it works, but it's a little bit outside the bottom. of what we've seen with some recent high profile. Well, you've got to have a great staff. And like that's going to be his big challenge. And I think with McDaniels now being up in the air and Judge gone, it is remarkable all the people that have left New England, of which McDaniels could still be one. Just in the last couple of years, Flores, O'Shea, Joe Judge,

Matt Patricia, and then I can name three or four other lower level assistance, maybe Nick Casario, like it is, has been a total house. The pastor. The pastor left. Easterby, whatever his name is. Wait, we got some breaking news. Let's just hold that thought. Ricky, what do we got?

This just in, I have a text from Peter Schrager himself saying, Mark isn't upset with what I just said, is he? Oh, not in the least. Not in the least. I couldn't have, I just, I am just surprised and happy that he watched the show. By the way, the show did very well in the ratings I gave you that information on Sunday night and I have that confirmed. I texted him back

and I said, yeah, he just said that she cut the interview from the show. You should not be conducting the head conversation about me and the I will. I'm going to speak for Mark without speaking to Mark first. Oh, I just said that you're raging mad and that to delete the entire interview. That's also right. That's also right. Well, handled. I mean... He said, oh, breaking news. He said, do you think he's going to like ever forgive me? And I was like,

no, I think it'll be fine. And then he goes, but does he hate me? Oh, yeah. I mean, this is just... It would be a situation where, Mark, I love you, but like four hours from today, I'll be at home and I'll get a text from Mark like, like, hey, do you think Schroger really didn't like my segment? No, I won't.

Why do you always put Trigger on the spot like that? I remember our last... You did the same thing at the pool. Our last interview with him, you asked him, who does he respect that? And he said, Greg, so I wanted to dig into that topic a little bit more. I agree with that. He gave an honest answer. All right.

I enjoy him to the moon. At some point, you should keep asking him that until he just says Mark Sessler. Well, that's what I'm going for. He could end this charade by just answering the right answer. To your point. What I was going to say is our buddy, Sean O'Hara, who once found us acting like we were passed out in Deon Sanders' special room, and we blew his mind. He was on and pointed out that the Giants have had the last two head coaches slash offensive coordinator, and it hasn't worked out with McAdoo and Shermer.

The goal this time around was not just leadership, but to be, to instill a more physical philosophy on both sides of the ball, which seems to fit well with Gettelman and his hog Mollies. All right. Let's now move to the Cowboys, who on Monday, after our Sunday pod where he talked a little bit about the Cowboy situation where we learned that Jason Garrett officially was out at Dallas, they announced that Mike. McCarthy is their new head coach. He signed a deal to become Dallas's new head coach.

The deal became official on Tuesday when it was announced. It's a five-year contract. And the hiring came less than a day after the Garrett era officially ended. McCarthy spent last season out of football, of course, after 13 seasons, the head coach of the Packers. Now, there's been some criticism out there, Mark, that after you went through this whole era of Garrett and all the criticism, seemed to last half a decade, at least, that you kind of hired someone that's similar to Jason Garrett as a coach. Do you buy into that criticism of this hire? The resume isn't similar.

I mean, I understand with the overall kind of cue rating of Mike McCarthy nosedive during that final year in Green Bay, but he has made the playoffs nine out of 13 years with the Packers, 10 and 8 postseason record, a Super Bowl title. That's everything that Jason Garrett could not accomplish with very talented roster. I never got to another to see title game, Jason Garrett. I don't see, I, no. And he has his own offense, good or bad.

He does, and there's also whispers of him wanting Kellynne Moore to stick around. So that, that, that, the one I want to know about Mike McCarthy is, what is the offense? What are we going to see? Because he went through this sojourn year and he went through this remaking and rethinking about how to, you know, run a team and run his own attack that felt stale by the end. So what new wrinkles, along with this, you know, personal PR triumph? Because, I mean, the attention around Mike McCarthy over the. last month. I mean, anyone that gets into any sort of trouble should hire the people that

Mike McCarthy hired. What are we really going to get? The guy that he's replacing should take notes because McCarthy... Well, they literally share an agent, which is a ridiculous... You noted that, Greg. It's crazy. I mean, all the, very many, a lot of these coaches have the same agent, but McCarthy and Garrett share the same agent. So while McCarthy was literally in Jerry Jones's house, and Jason Garrett, according to Jay Glazer, was pushing as hard as he can to keep the Cowboys job. He was not, you know, that part of the reason it took a week was he was not going down without a fight.

That's what Glazer said. The same guy is representing both. It's kind of a joke to me. How is that not a joke? It's wild. Seems like a conflict of interest. My one reservation, I know there's been criticism of his offense, but just thinking back to the last, I don't know, half decade with the Packers, this guy is a known lead sitter.

He will sit on leads for an entire quarter, an entire half. and you read Vince Lombarding says one of the first lessons he learned and it was a hard lesson to learn don't sit on the ball for an entire quarter I don't know Mike McCarthy is selling this six person video unit eight person in the analytics team he's got a 14 person football technology department maybe they can help him with that area

that killed some of his Packers right he struggled in game management like Garrett did I do wonder if keeping Kellan Moore or strongly considering it you know if Jerry Jones was pushing up was part of the deal that I think Jerry Jones wanted to keep Kellyn Moore and whether that was, you know, part of the conversation that they had. Well, I mean, and Kellan Moore has an open invitation to go to the University of Washington and become their OC2. So that may intensify or move that decision up a little. And we should say McCarthy, it's been reported, is going to bring in,

expected to bring in Mike Nolan as his defensive coordinator. Nolan was his boss. back with the 49ers, way back in 2005. Is Nolan going to wear the suit? I like that suit. I want to know if the suit is back because we had the... Are you allowed to do that today? I don't know. That'd be crazy not to allow it, but I mean, I could see...

It's... I feel like they stick them in all these, like, team logo apparel business, and some know how to look good in it, and some simply have not grasped that concept. Like, Mike Nolan was the head coach back in San Francisco, and Mike McCarthy was his coordinator on one of the worst teams I've ever seen. seen with Tim Rite, Ken Dorsey, Alex Smith's rookie year. They were dead last in yards and offense. But that actually was a good reminder for me of like coaching hires are impossible to

predict. I mean, everything in football is possible to predict, but especially coaching hires. Because the Packers hired Mike McCarthy off that season, off coordinating the worst offense in football. And everyone at the time was like, what? Really, you're hiring Mike McCarthy? And it worked like gangbusters the first five years he was there so who the hell knows we are also coming up west to your point about McCarthy and that bad bad trait of sitting on leads the five year anniversary of to me outside of the super bowl with the falcons the worst collapse we've ever seen seattle green bay a game that i'm not even a packers fan and that loss still sticks to me and that was a perfect example of a guy that took the air out of his own ball i think it's a bigger choke job than the falcons game when you see the coaching moves that were made and the way the team played i I think it was a bigger. I credit the Patriots more than more than I blame the Falcons. All right. And one more head coaching job left, Mark, I believe you are aware of this,

that the Cleveland Browns remain. So they've taken the opposite path. This is what bad teams typically do, but maybe this is the right path to do, which is whatever you did the last time, do the opposite. So you didn't even look outside the building last time, said Freddie Kitchens are a guy. Now they're looking everywhere.

Jim Schwartz, they're requesting an interview with the Eagles, D.C. and former Lions head coach, I believe he will be marked the eighth interview. And now there's no rush because nobody else is looking to hire a head coach. So it just becomes a matter of them deciding who's the right guy. They have the pick of everybody that's left. How are you feeling right now? This is, I'm always a split mind here, but the weird outlier to this little journey that they've been on is that I thought that Jimmy Haslam's press conference last week. And I've been swayed by his press conferences before because it's not that he has skills in that area. I thought it was the best one that he's ever had with the Browns. And as disastrous as everything was last year, I do wonder if at some point in this job and this thing where you've gone through this process so many times that you are learning. And I viewed the removal of John Dorsey ultimately as trying to, you know, against what the Giants have done is not shove potential candidates inside a front office that,

that already would have had a powerful voice in John Dorsey. I think it opened up the doorway for Josh McDaniels and whoever he wants to bring along with him. A lot of these interviews, the Brian Daubles and maybe even Jim Schwartz, I view more as potential exploratory talks. And, you know, Schwartz is on a contract. But Daibold to me as a potential coordinator type.

I have just felt all along that Josh McDaniels... You thought since two weeks ago this was going to be McDaniels. I have. I guess, you know, the news happened so quickly this morning that I thought they were going to lose Josh McDaniels potentially because he was sitting after all these other scheduled interviews. You say that if you want McDaniels. I don't know what I want.

As a Browns fan, I don't know what I want. To Greg's point, I find these coaching hires so unpredictable that, you know, who knows how it's going to go, but I like the idea. What I didn't want was shoving a candidate with people already in place, that whoever it is brings their own people. And I sounds like that there's an open flexibility from the Haslons on down

to allow whoever it is to come in and craft their own organization which they desperately need to do to keep pace with the Ravens and Steelers catch up, much less keep pace. They interviewed Dayball on Monday,

McDaniels scheduled to interview on Friday. Kevin Stefansky also expected to interview this week. And Jim Schwartz today. So almost three of those four are from the Belichick tree, including Schwartz.

Well, Shorts is one of the rare candidates who checks the box. of Belichick Tree, approved by the analytics crowd, approved by unnamed sources in the executive ranks. He seems to be liked by a lot of people. It would be interesting of McDaniels, if now was the time to go, there's a thought, you know, in New England that as uncertain as the Browns are, and I think ownership would probably be the biggest concern for him, that the Patriots is more uncertain, that he doesn't know what's up. But he doesn't know, like, the staff there is very strange. He doesn't know if Brady's going to be back. They certainly didn't have, you know, everything is kind of up in the air in New England, too.

Steve Belichick's starting to rise up the ranks. Is McDaniels still the next in line? Well, while we're on this topic, let's hit that. Robert Kraft, the owner of the Patriots, spoke to Peter King in his football morning in America column and had this to say about Tom Brady and what his future holds. You know, my hope and my prayer is number one, he play for the Patriots, or number two, he retires. He has the freedom to decide what he wants to do and what's in his own best personal interest. And craft, what he doesn't want to see here, he does not want to see Johnny

Unitas on the Chargers. He doesn't want to see Joe Namath on the Rams. And he certainly doesn't want to see Tom Brady on someone's billboards in 2020 as the all-time great quarterback now associated with a different team, which I totally get. What I found interesting is that he would come out and say that. Like, I rather him be gone totally than return to the Patriots. The fan. But I totally get where he's coming from. Well, it seemed like after reading that article that if Kraft is running this instead of Belichick,

and I don't know if after 20 years and what Brady's accomplished, maybe the owner is running this decision, he definitely wants Brady back. I think Brady, if you kind of, you know, pick the words that he chose, he, you know, he probably wants to be back, too. Tom Curran wrote a great piece, which I linked to on Twitter about the situation. And look, Tom, Tom, in about 600 words, he kind of described, he explained the entire Brady vantage point. The lack of money that he's gotten in the last handful of years, the kind of push and pull between Belichick, always maybe kind of looking at when are we going to get out of this

and to where he is now. And I think Brady probably wants to be back to. And the question is whether Belichick really wants him back and whether Brady would just take a lesser deal to come back because that might be the only choice he has. I mean, how often... What is the track record of Bill Belichick

clinging to players in decline? I mean, not to bring up the Browns again, but when he cut Bernie, Cozor that was the biggest story in the league that year, and it was a shocker to Browns fans, but he- This is Tom Brady. He correctly assessed that player's diminishing skills, as he said, and where are we with Tom Brady? But even before this season, I thought that was a great detail he had. He was really hoping for the contract that Breeze got, Tom Brady was, which was a two-year,

$50 million-type extension. He's coming off a Super Bowl win, a season he played pretty well on balance, certainly had an epic AFC championship game performance, and couldn't get that. You know, a couple years ago coming off the best comeback in Super Bowl history, he was looking for a new contract, and he got a bunch of incentives added to his deal that he didn't reach, even while they're making the Super Bowl again. So it's like they've been playing hardball with Brady a while, and there's not a lot of reason to think they'll change it now, other than they don't have any option behind them.

I mean, I think the idea of them just not. being ready to say goodbye really could work to Brady's advantage too. That Brady doesn't want him to leave. Kraft doesn't want him to leave. And if it takes a few extra million dollars, $10 million to keep the greatest player in the history of the franchise and arguably the history of the league in business with them for another year. I just want to where Belichick is in that whole situation.

And Brady, I think, has a thought in his head because he's wired this way. Who's going to want me? I'm 43. My team just struggled down the stretch. I'm not 100%. You know, he doesn't want to go join some rebuilding team. Like, he's going to want a good situation. How confident is he that he's going to get a better situation

than having to move his entire family or go live by himself and learn a new offense? It's like he struggled enough dealing with Jacoby Myers and Nikiel Harry. Like, what's he going to do? You know, there's only so many situations that I think he's going to see and think that's actually, it's a very, like, complicated game of chicken. To your point, Mark, I guess it would take for this thing to fall apart. Maybe the Brown to Josh McDaniel, I don't know. Maybe to the point that you were making,

maybe the only way this doesn't happen, a deal, is that Belichick kind of behind the scene says, no, we need to move on, but I don't know if that happens either. Well, we know that it's also moving on to who. On some level, I mean, he was ready to go Jimmy G. I mean, they've been trying to plan this out for a decade. Right. Tom Brady was too good for it.

And at the end of the day, though, Kraft is Belichick's boss. So I feel like if Brady wants to come back and Kraft wants him back, maybe that leads to more issues. Maybe Mark you, well, he's not going to the Giants now, Bill Belichick. We know that. Oh, I've lost sandwiches on that. Came close, though. But, you know, it's something to watch.

Didn't come close. Not at all. Two quick coordinator stories before we get to our coaches draft. Scott Turner, son of Norm. Norm Turner. That sounds fun. He will be the new offensive coordinator

of the Redskins. So he gets that job. Your thoughts on that? Wes, you got a thought. You got a take. Scott Turner? Scott Turner, baby. I'd like to know how he and Mark got

into a confrontation. Well, it wasn't a confrontation. I overstepped what I've... I saw him early morning at an airport on the way to the combine. We happened to be on the same connecting flight to Indianapolis. And Scottie Turner.

Yeah, and I was, none of you guys were around. I was alone. I got this weird flight. And, like, so I, you know, in this, like, kind of waiting area, went up to him and tried to approach and have a conversation. Hey, I'm Mark Sessler from NFL.com, I think I said. And he just, like, staring right through me and just could not have been less interested in speaking with me.

I don't blame him. It was like 6.45 in the morning or something. How much younger is he than you? I think he is younger than me by a number of years. I think he did a good job with Carolina. He's getting most of the credit for actually coordinating that offense, even before he was officially named the play caller. All things considered, I think they did a pretty good job.

Can't answer you a question? What? How did you recognize Scott Turner in an airport? Well, because he had been on the Brown staff. So, you know, I, that got, that was how. In what capacity on the staff? I think he was, might have been the quarterback's coach or, but he's still, you know, you've been known to pretty big grounds, man.

Football people in airport. Yeah, I know about Norv run, but. Because Norve was there. I like your word. I forgot, Norve was there too. Norve kept bringing him around. everywhere, and Norve was with the Browns for one year. Norve's been everywhere.

But we're at the... Do you confront Jimmy G? Well, we had a very nice conversation with Jimmy G. I mean, you just got to go for it. Greg Roman was confronted. Greg Roman is not confronted. We had a wonderful time for about 20 minutes. Fits with Jane Haskins well, I think.

We are getting old when the head coaches of our childhood, their sons and, you know, are now getting these jobs happening. Finally, the Rams have moved on from Wade Phillips, the veteran defensive coordinator, is out. His contract expired at the end of the 2019 season and the Rams declined to renew it. Once upon a time, he was the perfect guy to be in that building. He had the young hot shot offensive coach in Sean McVeigh, Wes, and then son of bum. He was the grizzled veteran with the resume, with the knowledge, with the know-how. But I guess it got to a point where they

feel like they need to freshen things up in L.A., and I don't exactly blame them. Well, Mike Silver had this a few weeks ago, and I've been reading quite a bit on it. It seems like Bill Belichick taught Sean McVeigh something about versatility and adaptability in the Super Bowl. And as much as Sean McVe appreciated Wade Phillips' scheme, the first couple of years, he doesn't want to be scheme-heavy now. He wants to be situation, game plan, opponent-specific to adapt, and I think they want to bring in some younger guys. with fresher ideas. Yeah, I think both, I think two things can be true that Phillips did an incredible job

and on some level this is unfair. Top 10 defenses. You know, because the defense was better than Sean McVeigh's offense this year. It's not even a question. And the defense was certainly better in the Super Bowl where what Bill Belichick said before that Super Bowl was absolutely true.

Like, he's like, they asked them about the game, but he's like, we know what Wade's going to do. It doesn't mean it's going to be easy to go against it. We've been going against this defense in different cities for every year and it basically looks the exact same. And you know what? It was good enough for the Broncos

to beat the Patriots a few times and win a Super Bowl. It was good enough to hold the Patriots to 13 points last year. But it just doesn't... It just doesn't fit with what Sean McVe wants and that's understandable too. I would imagine if there's any hard feelings there

that they will ultimately be fine because none of us can know how much it helped Sean McVeigh to have the knowledge, the experience, the respect, and just the overall aura of Wade Phillips in that building. I think the reason that they were able to turn it around so quickly and flip the switch,

he has a huge part to do with. Their defense, especially in 2017, McVeigh's first year was fantastic. And Wade Phillips turned 73 in June. He's a coach. He's a son of a coach. He still wants to coach. I imagine he will be scooped up and be someone else's DC for 2020. I mean, if you can be president, I guess why not?

Hey, Joe Judge needs an offensive and defensive coordinator, right? I mean, that feels like would fit in with the old... Maybe a little topmong. You can Wade Phillips at you. All right. That's what's happening in the news. All right, let's do it. Let's have some fun here.

This, I have to give the credit to Maddie Tanton and Jason Kleinman, who helped they produce the Power Rankings Digital Show that I do with Money and Cynthia. We had a quarterback draft for the playoffs this morning. And I said, oh, that's fun. And I felt too on the nose to straight steal that idea. But if I just change what we're talking about and then steal the idea, it didn't feel quite as larcenous. It's fine.

I mean, all these ideas have been done. It's good. Tell it, baby. All right, so we will do a playoff coaches draft. There are eight playoff teams remaining, eight head coaches, and yes, it's age order, which worked out for me. Which means you're first. I'm in my 30s.

Oh, wow. That really worked out for the guy who made up the rules. It's funny how it does work out like that. So I have, let's see, what are our choice you do? You also don't get to make your last. Wait, you don't even know who the coach? You get stuck with the eighth pick. That's true.

Maybe can I pick one of the coaches that are out for the eighth pick? No, absolutely not. It's changing the rules on the fly as you progress. I'll get a coordinator from one of these teams. You're going to get the guy you won at eight anyway. All right, here we go. What, Gase is available? Oh, your favorite little AFC South coach, you'll still be there at eight.

Oh, I love it. I love it. BOP. I ranked the top seven. I was like, it's a given. Bill O'Brien's going last one. Oh, wow. I don't know. I have the seventh pick and we'll, did you watch the first 40 minutes of the wild card round? Hey, my front office is going to have to examine the options that are there. Can I just say, though, they happened to beat the team that

West thought was going to like run through the playoffs and then go 19 and on next year? You saw that as a coaching victory. Go home, Bill's and go home West because Bill O'Brien's my number. No. Have you seen Bill O'Brien on all of his wildcard weekends? Stop it. 30 to nothing, Chiefs. I mean, Bill O'Brien's got more winning seasons by far than Ron Rivera does over the last decade. Ron Rivera is not in this exercise. All right, here we go. Here are the choices, of course. I know everyone knows, but maybe you're new to the game, and this is your first real, like, connection with the NFL.

Stop buying time so you can figure out how the coaches are. We have Mike Zimmer of the Vikings. We have Kyle Shanahan of the Niners. We have B.O.B. with the Texans. We have Andy Reed with the Chiefs. Mike Vrable with the Titans. John Harbaugh at the Ravens. P. Carroll, the Seahawks, and Matt Leflare, the flower.

I'm loving. I'm loving having the two pick because I'm just loving it. The one pick's not great, actually. Two-man draft. Like if Belichick was there, bang, I got it, but he's not here. He's home too, Greg, just with Adam Gase. It's a one and the same. It's a relief.

How about Bill Belichick coaching one more game than Adam Gase this year? How about when he just cut it down? Oh, that's one way to look at it. Yeah. I just, those are facts. All right, the first pick is going to, be i'd argue gase didn't coach seven how about them creating a memory that will live in patriots jets lore forever on monday night football you know what more did they really need after

that game uh well that's all you get all right here we go the first pick will be oh i'm seeing ghosts still the first pick will be this is tough you've had this you've been on the clock all day since you came up with this segment You know what? I love him. And you can come after and say he's got a scarred postseason history. He can't run the clock. But Andy Reid is my pick. Andy Reid is just a guy that I love. A guy, yes, does he have some baggage? Yes. But do I feel like when a team hits the field of these eight remaining coaches that they're going to be well prepared, that they're going to have a scheme on offense that works and what he's been able to prove? He's built a whole program in Kansas City.

That defense has gotten better and better as the season's gone along. And at the top of the food chain, he's responsible for that as well. So Andy Reid is my first pick and the first overall pick of the coach's draft. Your thoughts? I don't give him a pass for losing those playoff games with Alex Smith at quarterback. What I do think, though, is that he had a level of talent like Patrick Mahomes, that Andy Reid probably would be a two-time Super Bowl winner at this point. point. I can't argue with the pick at all. Totally solid. He's one of the best

offensive minds, one of the best quarterback handlers. To me, I had him ranked third, and the only reason was he's failed in game management. Yeah, he would have been in my top two. If you're just starting an organization, especially if, you know, he's a little younger, he may be, he's choice number one. Now, if you get into a playoff field and it's in this, among these eight, you're on the clock now for John. No, I'm not. No, I'm talking about Andy Reed. To me, I knew what my top two were, Dan, and you took one of them. So I don't have any problem with that. I think Andy Reid is somehow underrated.

I love to see. I feel like we had the same conversation last year, and then it ended with broken hearts against the Patriots and the AFC title game. I want Andy Reid at opening night, the media night. I want him on the platform next to Nance or whomever it will be with the confetti coming down. It's time for Andy Reid to have his epic moment. and I'm going with Reed. Number two.

And he put up 31 points on the Patriots when Sean McVease-Ram's put up three. I mean, he's an offensive guy. That's what I want in 2020. And that's why I'm going Kyle Shanahan, who's kind of to me the... What was that sound? That was my...

I mean, I'm not going to get him at number four, but it's like... Can you isolate that sound drop please, Erica? That was something... That almost compared to Greg's throat noise. It was just a sigh, but I didn't want to, you know, interrupt. a little erotic.

It was like, I don't know about that. That was your guy. He was my number one pick overall. You do love Kyle. You love yourself some Kyle. I know that. I think he's everything you want because he's the best combination I think of

modern philosophies and aggressiveness and offense and week to week game planning with a groundwork foundation that's really built from Kerry Kubiak and from Mike Shanahan and is tried and true and he can do anything that you want. Like, he can install a great running game, a great passing game. And I do think he has a big global vision, too, as a head coach. He would have been my number one overall pick. I'm excited to get him. Let's job by you.

Might be the best offensive mind in football. The hat's a little on my radar, the hat with the flap. Yeah. And that's the biggest problem you have with, not what I mean, anyone would have with a coach. It's kind of like, I'll take it. I mean. This was, like the players like him, he's young, like he just checks all the boxes. And he fulfilled his promise, you know, it seemed a little starcrossed the first two years.

And then once he got the roster that was healthy and the quarterback was on the field, he proved that he's a guy that can coach a team. So yeah, I think it's a solid number two pick. And that takes us now to Chris Wessling, the third youngest member of the group. You're up. Well, just like I had Bill O'Brien in his own tier at the bottom, I had John Harbaugh in his own tier at the top as easily the number one pick. I know Greg's always hated him as a coach.

That's not true at all. He's trying to get him fired on this program for a last year. I love a good like a side west zinger. Greg put him on the hot seat year after year. Especially it's not true. One of the five best coaches in the league the whole time. All I did was kept pointing out that their own owner said I considered firing him. Right.

But I expect you to use your own football analysis and realize this guy, he can't give fire because he's one of the best coaches this game. mean he almost didn't lose his job. To me, the runaway pick for coach, go ahead, Dana. No, I was just going to say, when I did the hot butt rankings in August, I had it on good authority from someone that's super plugged in the league, that Harbo was not as safe as people thought. And then they went 14 and 2.

And that was, so there was some type of rumblings that he needed. From Bashati, in a post-season press cover. But I, like I said, I expect you to use your football analysis and realize he's too good of a coach to allow that to happen. Good coaches get fired. Right. But also, Belichick didn't get fired because he's that good. And Harbaugh's not Belichick level, but right there under it. He's my coach of the year this year. I wouldn't have taken Shanahan for that. I think Shanahan would have had a strong number two, considering all the injuries that they had that they overcome to go 13 and 3 in the schedule that they play. They could have easily beaten the Ravens if they got. But I would put Harbaugh number one for sure. He has picked the right coordinators.

He has chosen to revolutionize offense, go all in on Lamar Jackson, all in on their philosophy, their vision, and still confidence with this team, and use analytics in a game management way that has given them an edge on opponents all year long. Love the way they go for fourth downs. I'm all in on John Harbaugh. I think he's one of the best coaches of his generation. I love any of these guys that show the ability to recreate who they are. to hang through the complete recreation of a team in a roster like John Harbaugh's done, and he's got a collection of interesting people in that locker room,

and they seem to respect him entirely, by the way. They are one of the best-run teams in the league. Have an ability to see things through and not make the move. It's so easy to just fire the head coach when it's time for a quote-unquote regime change, and they, because the Ravens are so well-run. And Wes. And the last special teams coordinator,

to be hired before Joe Judge, if I'm not mistaken. Has there been any since? He's the one that you always attached. That one worked. This is why you're feeling good right now, Wes. In addition to your positive feelings about the man, the only coach so far that has a Super Bowl ring in our draft. So he's proven he could take you the distance,

which takes us to Mark Anthony Sessler. Not my middle name. Edward Sessler. Well, I'm going to go Pete Carolyn. and I find it interesting that there are so many people that are always down on Pete Carroll. And at the fourth pick here, I look at the rest of this list,

and Pete Carroll has won a Super Bowl. Pete Carroll has, like Harbaugh, overseen the transition of Seahawks 1.0 into Seahawks 2.0. You've got the same quarterback there, but that wasn't the major issue, but on defense especially, and we don't get to pull the GM along with him, which I'd like to do.

I get it. Pete Carroll, you know, I feel like being around Greg, there's just these endless complaints about his, you know, time management and game management and little things that are important. Hunting. They get strays all this. Well, no, but see, I come from a little bit of a different place than Greg. He's a great coach. I've always been super positive on Pete Carroll.

Well, I don't know. I feel like this year I keep hearing him getting killed. And what I do feel about Pete Carroll, the man who, the person, the way that he relates to people, his youthful zeal, I can never tell how old he is. I know it's way up there, but he just seems like someone that is curious about the world. He's 100 years old.

I would honestly consider Pete Carroll over some of the people that we've talked about atop him in this exercise depending on what kind of team it was. Oh. So Pete Carroll, tell me why I made a terrible choice. Should have gone, Mike Rable here, huh?

Easy. I don't know. I think we all probably would have. It's funny, the whole time. Hey, man, it's a good pick, right? The whole time. The whole time you're like, back off me, I'm like, Pete Carroll. Well, all of us are like, yeah, we probably would have taken Carol there too.

There's a lot of negativity towards Pete Carroll this season, and I don't get it. I just don't, I don't appreciate it. I don't like his conspiracy theories. I think they're a little far-flung. And he's sometimes dangerous. According to people that follow the team, he's toned down some of the TED Talk speaker stuff and some of the motivational things that just seemed a little bit flighty, which always was on my radar a little bit.

But, I mean, the success. You cannot argue with the success that he's had. Speaking of coaches that have outlived entire runs, the Legion of Boom is an ancient memory. Usually a coach gets tied to one great era and then gets washed out. When that ends, he's been able to stay vital and he's a big part of that team. Ten wins or more. In the entire Russell Wilson era, 10 wins or more, except for 2017.

And guess what, Mark? Snicks to you, baby. It's snaking. Well, I am not a total. sold on any of the rest of the list here, but I'm going to go I'm going to go with Mike Rabel. I'm really, really impressed with what

Wes is upset. Well, that makes me feel good. That makes me feel good. That Wes wanted him. That's what he's a five. I consider him at three. I think he's a great coach. You know, he's got all, he's kind of does everything that I would, everything you'd want in a football coach he seems capable at. And, you know, the Titans are a team. It's not easy when you get attached

to these sort of milk toast, middle-of-the-road teams that have a kind of like a reputation for underwhelming and just sort of not having an identity or standing out. I think he's built a team with an identity. You know, I don't care that he's defensive-minded because everyone a year ago was talking about go get the best passing game coordinator, offensive coordinator, and the team that dominate everyone is Greg Roman running the ball 460 times a day. So there's a lot of ways to win, and he uses the players he has pretty well.

Mike Rable, no questions asked. He's out there before the game doing hundreds of push-ups. He's planking for hours on end. Then you get to the game and he's out Belichick and Belichick at the end of the game, not giving them the ball for three minutes on some fake punt nonsense, some fake penalties, yeah. He came in cracking a lot of jokes to do all week. I like that. You're right.

He did the thing that Belichick did to Gase on that Monday night game where he just burned off like multiple minutes of game clock on a technicality. And he knows the Patriots. Which is great. As he said, feast on bad football and we didn't hand them anything. thing. This guy knows how to coach. This team is super confident. I think they might be the most confident team in the playoffs except for the Ravens, and they get that from Vrable and Derek Henry. Erica had a question for you, though. She asked me, I'm not sure why, but a question for who?

You, I guess. I just like, what's milk toast? Milk toast sort of means, like, land, middle of the road. You can have to go back and read the Charlottes. That's how I describe it. Erica is like toast coated in milk, add a little egg. sort of, you know. Add a little leg, make it French toast. No, it's milk with the, it's milk with a cue. C-U-U-E, yeah, it's M-I-L-Q-U-E.

Bland, would be the synonym, I guess. No, milk toast sounds gross to me because I don't need them matched or put together. Milk and toast, that's a soggy bread with a milk-smelt. I mean, that sounds good to me, like kind of a, somehow you make the toast. Well, that's how you make French toast. You add a little leg, and that's a great thing. Yeah, but it doesn't sound, it sounds cold, not warm. You don't like food.

I don't want, I don't heat it up. I don't eat a cold piece of bread dipped into milk. Am I that crazy? No, you have to have egg too and then you put it. A little bit of egg. Hard pass. Got to have this. All right, Wes.

Let's fly. A little syrup. That's why. Never. I'm not going to be nearly as passionate about this one because I want it variable. I'll take Matt LaFleur just because I don't want Mike Zimmer or Bill O'Brien. And I know Zimmer had one of his best games of his Vikings career last week. Great game plan.

I just not wild about the way he coach is. situationally, I don't like that his defense often doesn't show up in big games. I'm taking Matt LaFleur, who has exceeded expectations, even though Greg won't give him any credit for going 13 and 3 in GreenBet. I would be, like, frankly, if I'm Matt LaFleur and the hypothetical fans that are rooting for whatever organization West is putting together, I'd be a little concerned that almost none of that was about Matt LaFleur. Right.

It was all about Mike Zimmer and me. I admitted that up front. I wanted Brable. If that's the best that you got, that's, you know. I just don't want Zimmer and O'Brien. That's what I feel strongly about. You guys take those two. I think Matt Lafleur's done a good job.

And I think they've been pretty good in game management compared to, certainly compared to McClure. I will say this. 13-3 is great. No one is sold on this Packers. If they get bounced out of the divisional round, it's not going to look in so hot for Malifur. It'll be like, oh, a nice regular season, but wasn't really. Their offense, by the way, this was a crazy stat. Wait, you just said the Seahawks were going to lose earlier.

Well, it's going to be a close game. You're saying if this happened to the... I'm just saying... I disagree with that. 13 and 3 is successful no matter what. Let me just say this. It is pretty wild. And maybe I'd say...

I'll save this point for Thursday. No, I'll say it now. It is pretty wild that you have a new offensive-minded guru as your head coach. You have Aaron Rogers healthy for 16 games. And they were never higher than 17th in total offense this year. They finished at 18. They never got high. and moved into the top 10.

They were always a middle of the pack or a little bit of worse offense. That's pretty wild. With Rogers healthy for 16 games, they couldn't get things going. Did Malleflore get the version of Aaron Rogers that he was expecting? I don't know.

I think they've done a pretty good job with what they've had. But it is pretty remarkable. Their points scored were the exact same in 2018 and 19. And almost all their offensive stats are almost. McCarthy was nearly assassinated. Almost the exact same. In Green Bay on the way out the door.

They had to put a roof over his car driving out of that facility. Hey, at least Matt LaFlor hands the ball to Aaron Jones once in a while. You know who's up in the perch? Aaron Rogers was up in the book depository. It's concerning. You try scoring points with Jimmy Graham as your tight end. It's tough. All right, Greg.

I think Mike Zimmer's underrated. I'm glad to get him here down this deep. Selling himself on this one. In the draft. What are you talking about? 57 and 38 in six years. One losing season, and that was seven and nine. I mean, they are tough to game plan for.

I think they do adapt pretty well. If you want to give people credit for hiring coaches, well, how about Gary Stefansky and Gary Kubi? I mean, Kevin Stefansky and Gary Kubiak. Oh, Gary's. That's a nice little offensive combination that you've put together, Stefansky and Kubiak. And you have a defense that's very good.

it's not great, but it's very good. And I think especially all the veterans that are on the team, I think they're able to switch what they do on a week-to-week basis, which should be a good recipe in the playoffs. Now, they haven't been in the playoffs that often. What, is he now two-and-two in the playoffs? I'm trying to think. They're in almost every year, aren't they?

No, they lost that one of the Seahawks, and then they won one game and lost the NFC championship, and now they've won this one. So he's two-and-two in the playoffs. But in theory, I think that's the type of team that you want in the playoffs and a type of coach that can change what you do each week because you've got a veteran defense. I like Mike.

Parcells raves about him. I mean, he's, yeah, I think that what stands out to me why I wouldn't jump on him earlier is just, I don't know. I mean, is something about Mike Zimmer scream like 2020 versatility? I hear you, but he hired the right people to do it. But also, I thought last year's team was hurt a little bit by Zimmer, not. Well, you're annoyed the Vikings are playing. How'd you feel about the fourth quarter last week?

Kirk Cousins had one bad throw last Sunday, and Mark immediately was like, get this team out of our lives. Well, all right, but you know what? He's not saying all season. This team has no chance. I also think I simply underestimated them and was wrong. And by the end of that game, they instilled a different type of confidence in me. Who cares what I think about the Vikings?

I'm just saying they don't care. 600 winning percentage for over a six-year period. He's very solid. That's pretty solid. That's pretty solid. I'm so thrilled to have Bill O'Brien joining my fold of the eighth pick. It's a perfect way him and Andy Reid, two minds, great minds. And I just have to say, everyone hates Bill O'Brien in this room.

I definitely do not actually. I would have making him over a few guys. That's not true. It's bonkers to me how year after year, nobody in this room ever misses the opportunity to come after Bill O'Brien as being incompetent or bad or overmatched or out-coached or out-GMed. And yet, he's always there at the end. Five years, four playoff appearances.

He's now up to two wins, and he's in the divisional round this year. He's proven himself against a lot of doubts to be a pretty solid talent evaluator, wearing the two hats as a GM as a head coach. And I just mean, back-to-back division titles, these things are not. This is not a Belichick resume, but he is the most successful Belichick disciple. and as unlikable as he may be. He's not, I don't think he's unlikable either. You might not like his butt chin.

You might be anti-hine chin with the dimple he's got going on there. I even like that. I just think Bill O'Brien is a guy that's a punching bag, and while you punch him, he continues to succeed. This is a manufactured joke.

No, it's not. This is true. Every single year. I'm depending this guy in August. And then you get to January and his team is in the playoffs. That has something. There's a lot of draw men going on here.

You have built an an exquisite straw man. I mean, he won three straight... Like the match, nothing's going up. Three straight nine win seasons with nothing at quarterback. And, you know, you pair him with the Sean Watson and they're right here. They're alive. They're dangerous.

I think that Bill O'Brien was helped by taking over the front office and doing it his way. I think the one knock on him would see there seemed to be constant organizational intrigue and madness going on behind the scenes. That wasn't the case this year. So I... Because it got everyone fired. And let me just say... But that's a bill...

Belichick wants to run his own front office. There is a flip side to this. And speaking of the power ranking show, Matt Money Smith made a very good point that I will not deny that this team has laid some eggs in the playoffs and they were laying a big stinky one on Saturday before it seemed to Sean Watson was like, that's it.

I'm done with this. I'm taking this game over. He started running the ball a lot more. And it kind of echoes of Mike McCarthy late period, Aaron Rogers' relationship. I am not saying that Bill O'Brien, is the greatest coach ever, but for him to be a no-brainer number eight on this list,

I don't know, I would have taken him over. Let me ask you this. Where would you rank Bill O'Brien on this? At all the pack. I would put him, like, if he went six or something, that would make sense to me. But, you know, I don't think he's the next Belichick. I just think he's not terrible.

And that's how he's so often perceived in this room. He's been adaptable. That's all I'm saying. What was his big playoff win? That one or the one against Connor Cook? What about Mike Rable? you're betting on potential i guess i love i know he was what's i mean he had he had his first win well go into the playoffs and do what bill o'brien's done how many times against the chiefs

the first 40 minutes of that game last year's playoff game which was i think a 30 he was very close to becoming the a fc version of marvin lewis but to that point that's like a better than average head coach he basically played more rotten eggs than like a cholera riddled easter bunny give me a break so we were right i don't we were wrong about what happened when he became GM. I just didn't like the way he went about it to go do that and then to set the whole franchise up to basically save Bill O'Brien's job. I'm not even ready to say we were wrong about that.

If they're losing... Of course or not. I think he's been a good coach, but I don't think the fact that like those... I don't think those trades are proof that that was like a great move. If you're losing in the first round of the playoffs or barely escaping the bills in the first round, then you lose in the second round

and you're giving up all these draft assets, By the way, Laramie Tensel is one of the worst players on the field on Saturday, which, you know, he had a great, he had a good season, but he killed them on Saturday. It's like a penalty robot. The idea is to win the Super Bowl and to really contend for a Super Bowl. Good draft, guys. Good stuff. Everybody's happy with who?

I'm thrilled, actually. If we were talking about you have to take two teams into the season, I couldn't be happy. I just don't know. Pete Carroll, though, at four? I don't know, Mark. Five? What are the stakes for these guys, though? So, for your picks for this weekend.

Like everything else, we say on this show. Virtually nothing. It flies and to the... What are stakes? There are zero stakes. Yeah, we get to say whatever we want. It doesn't matter if we're right or wrong.

No one's going to remember. Well, this is also really hard. I guess... I feel like that the coaches you guys picked are who you have to stick with for the playoff run now. Mine two are playing against. I'm on Seahawks Corner.

I mean, I did the right, the loyal right thing that some of the ones are facing off against each other. So I win and lose on Saturday. All right. That's it. The next time you hear from us, yes, Wes? Once again, help out our friends in Australia. I had the numbers wrong. It wasn't 500,000 animals dead. 500 million animals, and that total is old.

This is a disaster. This is a catastrophe. It's a disaster. It's both. Rural Fire Service, Wires Animal Rescue, Australian Red Cross, if you would like to donate, those are all places you can donate, and they will send that to a good cause. I don't know if it's a internet thing and not real, but I believe it could be real. If you show the photo from space above Australia, it's just red and brown and orange,

and that is not a good thing. So yes, if you can help out, please do it. And to our listeners from that area of the world, hope you're okay. Stay safe. All right. We will be back Thursday with our preview of the divisional playoffs. Yes, what better weekend is?

there on the NFL calendar than eight of the best teams in the league fighting it out hoping to get to the final four of the bracket for the Super Bowl don't think there's one preseason week three is kind of tight that's a lot of a lot to observe a lot of jobs in week four the preseason too on the line so all right so it's the third best week in the year I like that week right after the Super Bowl oh that's a great week that's a nice week it's a good week for you Ali Bon Puri are digital features editors so make sure you get a 30 two-team power rankings out two days after the Super Bowl. I said, yeah, that's going to do well.

No, I think that's a good, that's a sound, that's a sound, like that day after the Super Bowl goes crazy. I remember what I was, that's like the most popular day of the year is the day after the Super Bowl. Can't you hire that out to someone, some, one of those women who Mark made up, like Sally Lee Yates or something? I will look for a Sally Lee Yates. These are actual workhorses.

Do you have that sound effect, by the way, Erica? There it is. That was a little erotic You're Pete Carroll No, it was the Kyle Shanahan Under your breath No, I recall now

Like it's, yes, thank you Let's go Passion That's what it was That was the passion from within It was like right after the passion Like Dan Ed's signing off For Quiet Storm

The Mailman, the old boss And Rick Hollywood Behind the Glass Until Thursday You know, Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies

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