NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Power Players: Rams Assistant GM John McKay

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

Jourdan Rodrigue is joined by Rams assistant general manager John McKay to discuss how the Rams approach talent evaluation, how in-season schematic changes take shape, relationships in the building with Les Snead and Sean McVay, and behind the scenes of the trades that brought Myles Garrett and Trent McDuffie to Los Angeles. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Welcome to another episode of NFL Daily's power players where we talk to football people and learn from them and pull back the curtain of the sport for you just a little further.

Today, I'm stoked to be joined by Rams Assistant General Manager John McKay, who has also previously worked as the Pro Personnel Director and Assistant Director of Pro Scouting. He'll enter training camp this summer after interviews for the Miami Dolphins and Minnesota Vikings general manager jobs. If you're a football fan, you know that the Rams do things a little differently than many of their peers, from their talent identification process to their financial and other resource allocation, whether it's in F them picks era or a draft and sprint rebuild era weighed down by record setting dead money at the time.

That team building is often among the NFL's biggest stories each season. They've tried new ideas in scouting from character assessments or projections into head coach John McVeigh's offense to their evaluations of the middle round draft picks and cheap veterans acquired in free agency that often supplement their big spends on stars elsewhere. So for John McKay, that has meant learning how to stay agile. through the process, a risky process at that, understanding that their model could shift at any moment and often without other precedent to follow along the way. So today, we're going to talk about how a team becomes like this, how this shapes the people on the staff, among other items, including the Miles Garrett

trade, this offseason in general, and what in seasons and off seasons in a front office actually look like. Ready to get into it. Welcome to NFL Daily's power players where we go inside the NFL with the people who shape the sport. I am joined today by Los Angeles Rams, assistant general manager, John McKay, who almost certainly has not had an interesting offseason at all. John, thank you for joining me today. I'm Power Players. Thank you for having me. So we're going to talk about Miles Garrett. We're going to talk about your offseason. We're going to talk about the process. We're going to talk about all the things and the expectations and the really intriguing storylines around this team. But really what this

show is about is helping people understand what people like you actually do in their jobs and what your path to the sport is why football has become not just a job for you, but a calling and a why? So I kind of want to start there. Why football? I know it's in the family, but when did it spark for you as a child that this is something that you're going to probably be like a little bit sickly obsessed with? Probably, probably as long as I've been. when I could first remember is honestly when it became my why. Growing up, my dad was with the Bucks, kind of in the late 90s, early 2000s, and then transition to the Falcons.

So I was always around it. I was always entrenched in it. It was always a part of our life. It was always a big part of my family. It's what brought us together. What made us tight and even closer than we could have been. So it was always the biggest part of my life. It was something I knew from an early age I wanted to do.

I got quickly obsessed with team building, roster building, player evaluation, different ways to attack it. And so that was an obsession from an early age. And then I think much to my dad's displeasure, it became what I wanted to do for a career. He was always very adamant that he's like, please just do something else. And I'm like, how can I grow up around this and this not be what I do? Like it's way too fun for that. But it's also I understand the downsides too.

It was always what I was going to do. And the exposures I had in early age were things I wouldn't trade for anything. Being around some of those teams and the people that I met, you know, both on the staffs, the players, whatever it may be, being around my dad, watching him do it at a high level was always something that I strive to do and wanted to do when I got my chance. So, yeah. Probably your dad wanted you to pick a career with a little less heartbreak in it, I would imagine. Yes.

You know, Rich McKay, obviously, is who we're talking about here. And, but for you, you just sort of stayed obsessed with it. I think lucky for you, eventually, uh, the team that you started working for moved back to the city where you went to college, right? So, so that probably helped. But in those days, the formative years of you deciding your path and, and what you wanted to do in football that maybe was in some ways similar to what you watched your dad do, but in other ways different, who,

were some mentors that have stood out to you and who are some mentors that you sort of stick close to now? Yeah. Well, obviously my dad is a tremendous one. But when I like think about my relationship with him, it wasn't always a football-based relationship. It wasn't like we were talking about football all the times. And I think about it now, even like what I bring to the workplace, like the things that I've learned from him are totally different than football. It's how to treat people, how to be a good leader, you know, how to just be a good person. Like those are, are the things that I embody from him that I found myself using on a daily basis. But then, you know, the cool thing about working here is I have a number of tremendous mentors that have

come through this organization. Like, I got to get started at a really young age here. I think I was 22 or 23 when I got hired. And Les has built a incredible staff over the course of the time that I've been here. We've had a number of, you know, current and former general managers. I mean, Rand Carthon, Brad Holmes, Brian Zander, Ray Agnew, James Gladstone, all those guys. You get to learn from, take different things from, emulate things that you'd like that you want to take as you elevate up in the profession. And then obviously, less is a huge mentor of mine and somebody that I always look up to. And for me, like what he's always imprinted on me is like, how can you think about things

differently? How can you think outside of the box? how can you think about team building differently? And are there different ways to do this that we haven't thought of? And how can we make our processes get to a point where we can put those things into place? And our scouts can feel those in a daily basis, both on a small scale and then a larger scale from a team building perspective. So he's made a huge impact on me. And being in a role where I'm in the building for the last 10, now 11 years, I get to feel that on a daily basis.

and so we're always in constant communication, especially in my role now. And it's cool to work kind of side by side with him now. But also when I first got here, it was much more like, hey, just put your head down. My dad always said, you know, kind of put your head down and put your ears up and listen and take in what you want to do and learn how to do this thing before you, you know, try to do too much. So I've been extremely blessed to be in the place that I'm at because between the coaches that have come through here in the front office executives,

I feel like I've had so many of the best people in this business to learn from, and I'm forever grateful for that. Yeah, you've gotten to watch them learn each other as you're learning them, too, which I know is just as part a much part of the process for listeners who don't know. The RAM staff is very different and has been operating as such pretty much since the move from St. Louis back to Los Angeles, where first they were in transition, but then now there's a very small number of people in the front office and on the personnel team. that work on site. And so it's sort of like a cluster where you guys are in very close quarters. I mean, this is not a practice facilities joke. You guys are in very close quarters all the time.

And there's a huge number of satellite people that are very trusted to sort of be on the road. And then obviously the scouts and the area scouts and everyone's on the road anyway. But in terms of like learning the people around you, leadership styles, but then also watching them learn each other, less need extremely individualistic, unique person. I'd be curious what adjectives you would use. And Sean McVeigh, extremely individualistic, unique person, also curious what adjectives you would use. Being in the room as those two also learned each other over the years, what did you take from that? You know, I think I'm able to learn and the people here we're able to learn so much because it is a very open place. Doors are always open. Conversations are always open. And that's unique.

And like it doesn't matter if you're a scouting assistant or a pro scout or an assistant general manager. Like everyone's voice is going to be heard because our staff is small. And the people that are at the top positions, like they want to hear from you and they want to be told the truth. And so I think you're able to learn so much more when the doors are always open. You're not afraid to ask questions. You know, it's all coming from a good place. And also, like, I think the unique thing is you're able to dissent comfortably and say, hey, I might disagree with this evaluation to this player.

I might disagree with this move. But here are my reasons behind it and know that I can dissent comfortably and not be, you know, lashed out at. Like, who are you to say something like that? Like, I think that that's a really cool thing. And then watching the two of them work together is unique. They're like brothers in ways. They know how to nip at each other,

but they're always in lockstep. And both of them are very good at articulating the clear visions of what they value in players. And Sean does a tremendous job communicating with our staff. Like this is what we're looking for. And not necessarily from always just a skill set standpoint at each position, but like what kind of people we want, you know, to fill this locker room.

But I think the clear messaging and the in the constant communication allows all of our scouts and all of our front office to do a better job when we're evaluating players and bringing players in and understanding like, hey, we're going to shop in this small aisle. Like we'll let the rest of the league, you know, kind of take the other ones. But these are the guys we're going to be hyper-focused on and, you know, being together for this many years. Like I think that that vision has grown even more and more clear. and now I think when our scouts go on the road,

they quickly can identify this is a RAM or this is not a RAM. And it really gives us an edge. But watching those two work together, we have a lot of small group discussions and things like that. They're some of the most fun you can possibly have as a group of, you know, five or six of us that are, whether it be going through the draft process, going through free agency and then obviously using all our scouts on the road, but those small film meetings are some of the best times, best times I could imagine.

We will get to what you touched on there about the combination of agility and willingness to take on risk, because that's a huge trademark, I think, of what that building is, especially that sort of circle of trust in the building itself. But first, I think listeners, when they see your title, they know what your job is, right, by title. But in terms of process, infrastructure, what are some key elements that you can pull back the curtain on a little bit about what doing, the job of the assistant general manager, specifically in the Rams building, means what it looks like,

what you have your hands in at any given moment? Yeah, I think it all starts with helping build out our scouting process and putting together a clear process for our scouts. When they go on the road, they know what they're looking for, and then how they write reports, evaluation structures, character, structures, things like that. It starts with our process. So we spend a lot of time, a lot of time doing that.

That's a big part of Nicole and I's job to, you know, help put Les's vision into life with our scouts and bring that to life so they feel as comfortable as possible on the road. And then it's a lot of evaluation. It's an evaluation-based building and an evaluation-based job. So my hands are in all parts, I would say, of the evaluation process, both pro and college. I'll evaluate every player on the draft board. I'll evaluate a really large number of free agents.

And then kind of the weekly rhythm when you get into the season is a lot of evaluation of your own team. And evaluation, you know, when you lose a player and you need to sign a player to practice squad, how do Matt Waan and I are a pro director, how do we go about bringing those players on and with the help of our pro staff? So I'm doing a lot of that own Rams roster management kind of in the season and always making sure you're keenly attuned on your own team. and I think that that's given us a big edge is really understanding where our own team's at, where our roster's at, where can we improve and what kind of guys we need to bring in.

I think that's a tremendously underrated thing when I look at like team building. So that's something I try to stay super focused on. I started in the pro scouting side and was there kind of for eight, nine seasons. I don't really know how many. So transitioning to this role is a little different in terms of it's a wider scope and it's really staying focused on the draft board and then

really helping the pro side where I can. Yeah, we cover it in chunks, right? Like on the outside media, we cover in chunks. We cover in season. We cover off season. We cover free agency. We cover things in buckets, right? And that's actually not how it works in real life. It is an ongoing, constant conversation and a constant evaluation. And sometimes pruning and tweaking your roster or seizing opportunity when opportunity does present itself, I think I first learned that when I was talking to you out of the practice field when I was a Rams beat writer about your Kevin Dotson acquisition. And, you know, he's a player that the Rams and yourself as a pro personnel director at the time

scouted for a while, many, many years at the point. So the, the, the, the pre-draft process melds into the in-season development process melds into the roster building and, and veteran free agent, or excuse me, veteran player acquisition portion that sometimes does happen, resource allocation, sending the picks and sending what you did for him. And then coming in the building and how does it work? And, you know, can you take me through what that was like? Because to me, Kevin, who's a starting right guard for the Rams, is a huge example of

how long and interconnected this entire talent identification processes. Yeah, so we do our pro scouting by position, which is different than a lot of teams do it. A lot of teams do pro scouting by teams. So you have a pro scouting staff of three or four people. They're going to evaluate a certain amount of teams in a league. And then you end up having evaluations on the entire league. The way we've decided to do it is to do it by position. so we have a certain number of scouts have ownership of certain positions.

And that's over the course of the entire league. Every guard in the league is evaluated by the same person. Every tight in the league is evaluated by the same person. And what we feel like is that gives that person true ownership of the position when we want to sign a free agent or make a trade for a player or sign a player off the street, whatever it may be. So in Kevin's case, Matt Waugh, who is our pro director, he's always handled the entire offensive line.

And that was kind of his baby and he's the expert on it. So when we went through that offseason, we were not able to address that guard position adequately. We felt like. And in the early parts training camp, it became clear like, hey, we're going to need a guard. So Kevin is a player who had been drafted by the Steelers, played three seasons of good football starting of a football. and Matt each season had evaluated Kevin's film and had been a big, big fan of his.

So when we were putting together, you know, potential trade candidates, we're looking at, we're always putting a list together of guys that may come free, whether it be a contractual reason, a role reason, whatever it may be, guys that we just think might be available. It was like Kevin really stood out. And Matt was the first one, you know, kind of put the list together. I evaluated them on my own too. And we together kind of brought it to less. Like, hey, we feel like.

like this would be a really good candidate to step in. So we spent a large portion of the month of August that year really pressing less like, hey, we need to get this going and, you know, letting him communicate with Omar from the Steelers and, you know, them talk through trade compensation, et cetera. And it went on for about a month and we eventually got the deal over the line. But it was a good example of a player who we had no reason necessarily to evaluate him on the surface. like he had never been a free agent. Obviously, he was still in a rookie contract.

So we didn't, but we do this process called the not-advanced process where you basically evaluate every player in the league that was not a team that you advanced scouted for, was not a free agent, basically the rest of the league. So Matt had done a tremendous job doing the non-advance evals on Kevin year after year. And then that trade's able to come to life. And obviously he's been a high-level player for him for us

since we acquired him in a big part. of the success we've had in the run game and in protection and really solidified the, you know, the interior part of that offensive line. But it's really a credit to the whole process coming together, Matt doing a tremendous job. I mean, I'm going to take no credit, but it filtered to me. And then it went to the last. So we did it collectively and then watching him come on the field and, you know, kind of bring some of those things to life in 2023 was awesome. So it was a fun one and one that we still live. like to, you know, like to talk about it. And it's a good, a good encapsulation of the entire

process coming together. Yeah. Well, I think there's still a pile of sunflower seed shells out on the practice field where you, Les and Matt would stand every single practice into August and September, just serving right behind the offensive line drills, just serving the work that you had just accomplished by bringing him in. And I think, too, John, one of the things that you touched on, the evaluation of these players that you first scout in the draft, and that's where I want to talk about some of your off-season and draft season work that you do in your role too, that stays in your system, jars that, you know, listeners know I've written about it, I'm not breaking any news here, the internal scouting system that you use, and basically the more data and the more

evaluations you have that you can keep, that you can basically ping pong other data sets off of in your evaluation process. When you circle back around to, hey, we might acquire this player, sometimes you have the full eval that you guys did in completion arguments, things that you've talked about. What was that like? Maybe not even just for Kevin, but you've had players who, I mean, it's been a years long process from when they were a prospect into maybe when they finally got into your building from the draft and pre-draft scouting process into the offseason and preseason work of pro personnel. Yeah, it's, um, it's really cool. And it's a credit to our, our college scouts, because they do a tremendous job, um, putting all the information together.

And it's, it's always funny. Like we talk after the draft for like, wow, we did all this work on all these players for, you know, whatever, it may be eight draft decks. I think this year we had six. But like, you do all this work for you're only getting those couple players at that time. So it feels like, man, that was a lot of work for not a lot of, you know, not a lot of payoff. But, um, in reality, that work is always still a big part of what we do. And the things that we lean on on the pro side is things like character, background, injury history, things like that. All the data that we're accumulating when they're in college is still a huge asset for us

when we get to their next acquisition period, whether that be in free agency or they're released or whatever it may be. We're always looking back at that information and saying, okay, let's, what parts are still relevant, what parts are not relevant. And then it's funny because oftentimes you end up signing free agents or trading for players that you really liked in college that you missed out on. But there are other examples of times where we maybe didn't give a guy enough credit, but we look at things, okay, we might have missed on this part of his evaluation process when he was in college. But obviously he's done a tremendous job with this team. And, you know, he's got high character, high ability to learn.

Like, this is a player we should target. So it's really a credit to all the work that goes into the college. process and our database allows us to for that stuff to always be a living thing and stuff for us to always lean on. So it's cool when those things come to life later on in guys' careers and we're looking back on their character, you know, six years later or their, you know, who the area scout was like, man, he really liked that guy. Let's, you know, like, let's talk to him about him. And then those parts are, those parts are fun and really go back to the emphasis we put on our process being strong and making sure we're doing good work on every player, even if they,

you know, may not be in range for us to pick them or whatever it may be. Like, maybe it's not a need at that position during that specific draft cycle, but hey, it's going to help us down the line. Like, it's a cool part of the process all working together and, you know, coming together in totality. Tell me about what that becomes the full-bodied evaluations that you guys do and the revisiting of them all the time, tell me what that turns into when you have a head coach in Sean McVeigh and a GM in Les Sneed,

and they are actively communicating about how Sean McVeigh will change things schematically, frequently, and to do so to stay ahead of how defenses chase him, and we've seen it year over year over year from the run game and turning from a predominant, wide zone team into more of a middle zone gap team to a duo team. And I know that was fun for you

guys especially. But then also, you know, some of the passing concepts that he uses 11 personnel. Now, you know, you've got two premier receivers and a bunch of tight ends and using them a lot. So when those pivots happen as they, you know, as they should when a successful team exists, how do you communicate it in your role with those two and how do you sort of prepare with all that information you already have to pivot into whatever you're going to try next. Yeah. I would I would say we have to, we always have to be ready for anything because anything is, anything is possible from, you know, what the vision may be, what the adjustment may be. So you always want to be ready and you want to always make sure that your scouts are always doing good work and, and, you know, also like

correctly identifying like what players are good at and what players are not good at, like, because someone might not be a scheme fit at the current moment doesn't mean they might not be a scheme fit down the line. And I think when we pivoted at 13 last year and used a lot of three tight ends, like we've been an 11 personnel team since, you know, since Sean's been here. I think we played the Super Bowl. We might have had like one healthy tight end active in the game or some maybe two, but it felt like one. And so, you know, you have to be ready for for pivots to happen. And I think last year the pivot to 13 was a good example of our, group being really prepared. We had felt like we had built a good tight end room where that pivot

was possible. And to make that pivot in season was unique, obviously, because we didn't really run 13 for the first, you know, five or six weeks. But then to pivot that, you have to make sure your roster has guys that are ready to make transitions like that when a coach needs them to. And that might not always be, you know, in the offseason process. Like last year it was in the end season process. But we felt really good about the group that we had, you know, with Colby, Davis Allen, Higgs, like, those guys were ready for it and could do all the things that, you know, were needed of them and the versatility and be able to block and someone to be a move player, guys to run different routes. We had drafted Ferguson. So it was possible at that moment. I think that that's the cool thing is like we felt very ready for it. And so for us, it's always about preparing our scouts to adjust to anything that, and, you know, they know what a ram is.

and being a ram is more about who you are than it is like what you are from a traits perspective. So I think that those guys are Rams and they're Rams through and through and it makes those pivots so much easier. So when Sean wants to change what we're doing offensively, like we're ready for it. And, you know, we're fortunate to have those guys on the roster and to see that vision come to life. But it's a real credit to our like entire scouting staff and our, you know, department as a whole to be prepared for it to identify as the guys that we needed to fill those roles.

So that was a cool one for me just to make such a strong pivot in season was unique. Well, I have to, I mean, I have to take me inside. You know, I'm fascinated by this. I've been, like, complaining for more heavy personnel for years. I went back to my notes and I, I just, I charted. I was like, I saw, I'm pretty sure I saw like 11 snaps of 13 total. like just for for giggles right like over over my five years covering the team and I was always like thinking it would be 12 probably right that would make sense but then no 13 makes so much more

sense because of the mismatch like receiver types that you guys drafted but then also there 11 personnel playbook already exists right so it's it's basically a transfer process which probably helps the pivot in season but I have to know like when you're in the room you guys are in your meeting and and you know sneed comes in McVeigh comes in and you guys have this conversation like and they're telling you okay now I need you to make sure to articulate this to the scouts what is that what is that like for you first of all we're like oh we're going to do something new okay but then but then articulating it out into the rest of the ecosystem I'm so fascinated by yeah we we spend a we spend a lot of time in training camp we have what we call the scouting summit

It's really like our meetings, the first week of the first week of training camps. All our scouts are there. We're all together kind of communicating, you know, changes in our process, whatever it may be. We spend a lot of time in those meetings talking about things to be looking for when our scouts go on the road the next season. When our pro scouts are evaluating guys for other teams, like what are our big points of emphasis going to be and where are the changes going to take place? And so we use a lot of that time to communicate those out. We do presentations. We have coaches come in to talk.

We have former players come in to talk. And it's big for us. And that's where we kind of put together the vision for this, you know, evaluation cycle. And that's where our scouts are able to go on the road knowing, okay, this is what we want to hammer home. And these are the kind of guys we want to look for at these positions. Here's where we may be changing schematically to help us do so.

And then I think one of the cool things is like Sean and Les and February, kind of the post-mortem of the season, like they do a great job communicating like this is where we're at as a team, this is where we feel like, you know, we can get better. These are the positions we need to add.

Here's how we may tinker things schematically to do so. Here's how we may change things on defense. Like, so we know and when we get into February, it's like, okay, this is the vision for the next kind of evaluation cycle. And then we try to bring those to life and free agency in the draft. But then again, where our scouts get on the road the road the next ball, they know, okay, this is what I'm, what I'm looking for, this is what may be our points of emphasis. And it just all boils down

to communication. And their communication from the top makes it so much easier for myself, Nicole, Matt, anybody who is directing some of our scouts on the road, like, or our pro scouts that are in-house, like the communication is always clear and it's always straight down the line. And I think it's a fun thing to watch come to life. And our scouts do a tremendous job of putting in on a T for us to always make good decisions. This league does not want you to take risks just by the way that it's structured. And it doesn't, it doesn't want you to take risks that push your team building model, you know, to the edge of the cliff or to the tightroper, however you want to describe it, right?

But year over year, this is a group. And I think continuity plays a big part in that, of course. this is a group that has shown a willingness to take risks, to absorb whatever risk means and kind of push into a vision of what that team building era is going to look like. You guys traded for Trent McDuffie, sent a first round pick. You obviously,

you know, I think sent a shockwave through the league a little bit later in the offseason when you trade for Miles Garrett. can you just take us behind the scenes of what that was like for you? This is a model you are familiar with. You were around the last time of the F them picks era. Obviously building through the draft helped you guys get to this point. But in terms of those moments, making those decisions, sending draft capital for, you know,

very, very, very, very, very talented to elite players at premium positions. what was that discussion like? Does it still feel real? Will it feel more real when you see it at training camp? I would say it does not, it does not feel real. It was a whirlwind. But I think when I think about the team building being aggressive, you know, trading draft capital,

a lot of it comes from the fact we've had success doing it. And there's a level of comfort doing it. And I think when those opportunities present themselves, there's no fear going on. There's no second guessing going on. If we feel like it's the best decision for the organization, we're going to move forward with it. And so I think that that's the cool thing is not one person

flinches at the idea of trading a first round pick or whatever it may be. Oh, we know. We know by now. We are aware. Yes, Captain obvious here. But I think with Trent Miles, it's unique because those two trades happen for different reasons.

I think you look at the Trent acquisition at the beginning of the offseason. Again, we're always putting things together, what players may be available, what players should we call on, whatever it may be. And that was a move that was made more out of a need. Like we felt like Corner was a position we needed to upgrade, maybe rehaul the room, revamp the room,

how can we approach things differently? and Trent was a great example of the process fully coming to life in the sense that Trent was a player that we loved out of college, had a ton of like for, is an incredible human being, incredible players, played incredible football for Kansas City. So he checked every box possible. And I think when he got picked, we might even draftinging like 100 that year. So it's not like we even had a chance at him, but we love them. So, but, you know, we're having those conversations and that came out of more of a need.

You know, we're talking through the free agency class. We obviously ended up adding Jalen Watson as well, but we really wanted somebody who we felt like could, you know, we could tilt coverage towards and kind of change the map defensively. And Trent was a guy that can do that playing inside or outside. So we worked through that one. It was probably a little more sped up in the sense that we were, it was right as free agency was coming. And, you know, we felt like we needed to get it done. And it was a good, it was a good conversation.

there was people dissenting. There was people, you know, but ultimately we all came together in lockstep. Our contract group did a tremendous job, obviously, getting over the final hurdle. And so that was an acquisition we were super excited about. We felt like giving up the 29th pick. We weren't going to, you know, have a player of his caliber be available at that part of the draft. And then, you know, we parted with some other draft capital. But where we were as a team, we felt like, you know, hey, having a ton of

picks this year is maybe not the best thing. We have a, what we feel like is a very deep roster, a difficult roster to make. So we didn't want to have a bunch of draft picks that we, you know, we were going to have to release some of them and guys weren't going to be able to make the 53. So we felt like comfortable with, you know, parting with what we parted from a draft couple perspective. And then when you pivot to miles and look at that acquisition, I think it's, that's an opportunity to like, how can we elevate this team? How can we take this team to another level? Obviously, Jared versus a tremendous player will have a tremendous career in a guy that we love. But, you know, we're looking to elevate and change things defensively.

How can we become a defense that, you know, people are afraid to play? And, you know, obviously the ability to acquire a guy like Miles Garrett, who's, you know, one of the best players in the NFL. Like, that doesn't come around very often. But I don't think one person flinched at the idea of being able to add him, whatever the draft capital may have been. So it was cool to watch those two come to life for different reasons and at different points of the off season. But I look at tramping and add for a need.

And obviously you're elevating that, you know, you're taking the need away and adding a great player. And then Miles really being able to take us to the next level as a pass rush when you look at a guy with his finishing ability and things like that. But the cool thing about both of them too is like it was always rooted in the tape. Like with both of the decisions, we sat down. We watched a lot of tape together. We talked through all the positives. There was basically no negatives. But, you know, we talked through all the different things we could do and made sure the vision was something that could come to life.

So I'm excited to finally see both of them together on the grass when we get to get to training camp. Yeah, still probably won't feel real at that point. No, truly. Yeah, because you guys have been trying to get miles first since 22. I mean, I've written about that. Like, he's been like the dream. Right? Yeah.

Yes. Yes, you could say that. I think he's, I think he's everybody's dream. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I like what you said about the McDuffie trade

because I think that one of the things, when you're taking, especially high value draft picks, like your first round picks have been when you've had first round picks. And packaging them into trade capital for a proven player at a premium position as coroner is,

as Trent McDuffie is, you're also understanding, either A, what you're not or B, what the position is not. And what I think the position is not of the position of corner specifically, and perimeter corner, I know you can move, but perimeter corner specifically is predictable. Development, especially at that position, is not predictable. It's you guys do a lot of projections in your scouting process.

I think receiver is where we really see it. But it's everywhere. And that position in particular is, is the player's development from rookie to second contract is all over the, all over the map, even a high round, even high round picks. So my theory is that in order to take risks the way that you guys have, you have to also know what you're not, right? And I guess what level of the kind word is self-awareness,

but I guess like what level of criticism or critique do you have to have on yourself as an organization all the time to know, hey, this is not going to be a known quantity at a position for us across the league. It's not, but we should go out and go for someone that is. I think, yeah, like you said, Corner is a very challenging position to evaluate because if you look at production and where guys are picked, whatever, it's never sticky. Like, guys can have up, up years, down years, whatever it may be, the ball may get thrown at them more. The ball may go away from the more and it might look like they have a great year, whatever it may be. Trent for us was about as consistent as we've seen a player on film through his first four seasons as we've found. And

he was that way in college too. So I think we felt like we were truly buying an unknown commodity at the position because he's shown us nothing from his college film. He was extremely consistent. His pro film, he's been extremely consistent. So we felt like it was a good bet to make. And I think that's a challenging thing with corners. I think when we looked at it and it was like, are we going to go into the draft feeling like we have to draft a corner when we don't, I mean, we can be as confident as we want to be in our evaluations. There is a, is, there's a growth curve that goes comes at that position. It's a challenging position to play, be successful at as a rookie. And I think, um, Trent made us feel really confident like,

hey, we're getting a really consistent player, but we're also getting a really good player, like that we have not probably had, um, maybe since Jalen at that position. And Jalen, when we made that trade in 2019, he was about as consistent as any corner in the league at that point. So we felt a lot of parallels in that standpoint. Obviously, they're very different physically and what they can do and what they're good at. But we felt a lot of parallels in those decisions with their level of consistency and a guy that we can move hard downs to. We can move around. And then the biggest thing with both Trent and Miles is they're incredible human beings. And they're going to elevate our locker room. They already have elevator,

our locker room. They're infectious. We have Jimmy Lake here who was with us in college who couldn't have said better things about Trent when we brought him in. And he's shown that in the couple months that he's been here. And I'm sure that he'll continue to show that throughout his Rams career. So we're fired up. Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Crave Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. You touched on something that I wanted to ask you about in terms of that intangibles and quantifying intangibles. And every team has a different way that they do this.

You guys have been evolving, workshopping, fiddling with your way of evaluating character all the time. And when those, in order to get to where you're at now in this team build model, where you are as top heavy as you are, where you are as star powered as you are, a lot of that first had to come from that sprint rebuild, building through those two draft classes of 23 and 24, where one of the main points of emphasis was, who is this person now and who will this person be a few years from now? and what will this person be able to endure when hard things, challenges are thrown at them and do they love football? And I'm saying it very, very simply, there's a whole formula on it. I know that. But what did you have to learn?

What did you maybe take from those two classes in terms of evaluating those, those intangibles or in terms of like, okay, this is how we're going to build a team? Yeah, I think when I think about, about that. I think back to 23 drafts. I think we ended up drafting like 14 players that year. And we went into that draft with, I think, 42 players or 44 players on the roster out of 90. So we had, we had really had to strip things down. And a lot of dead money. Don't forget. A lot of dead money. I don't forget. Yes. I remember. And so we went into that draft knowing we were,

you know, we had to add a lot of players. And both in the draft and in free agency, we were fortunate. We had a bunch of picks through playing the comp pick formula and a couple of trades here and there. So the biggest thing was like when you had that few, like, these guys are going to have to play right away. And we knew they were going to have to play right away at a lot of premier spots. So what we really tried to lean into that offseason was like, how can we get guys who are

ready for it right away? What are the types of traits, intangible traits, character traits that lead to a guy being ready to play right away? And we really leaned into that. Really intangely driven players. We drafted a lot of players that were older from age respective, had a lot of experience in college. And we felt like, hey, when this guy comes in OTAs and he's the starting left guard or whatever he may be, he's going to be ready for it. Like it's not going to be too big for him because we knew that they were going to have to get on the grass and play quickly and learn a complicated scheme quickly. So going through that offseason, I think we found a lot of who we wanted to be in terms of a team of scouting team and what kind of players we want to scout and the things we want to lean into.

And then we're always trying to find different ways to quantify intangibles and, you know, how can we, you know, put metrics together and have our scouts put, you know, scores. on certain things to help us build things and show us an actual score for intangibles and how can you find that? So we're always working through that. And we kind of built a system in those two years that allowed us to do that. And it's something that we've continued to lean in on in the team building process since then, even before then. But really that sprint rebuild made us like focus on those kind of guys and understand,

hey, we got to shrink the board down a little bit and stay focused on these type of guys. A lot of those guys have played a lot of really good football for us. I've gotten extended and helped us win a lot of games. So obviously we're fortunate that those picks, you know, hit the way that they have. But it was also very intentional in terms of the types of players and the types of people we're bringing in in those two off seasons. And we're just something, it's something we're always going to stay focused on, you know, moving forward and kind of what makes the building what it is now. sort of a galaxy brain question for you here off of that. I know you've never heard a galaxy brain question for me before in your life.

But when you're building these data sets, and it is something that you've done for a long time. What is a RAM? Right? You've done that for a long time. But really accelerating it into, I would say, some of the technology we have available. And then some of the,

some of the just different processes and trying things and trying to meld things together in really interesting ways. to get a better understanding of what it is you're looking for. It's a couple of years now. In eight years, you'll have a decade of data on this. Is there anything that you think can be known about quantifying intangibles that maybe we don't yet know? Is there anything that you all are seeking?

I think every team is seeking it, first and foremost. Everyone's doing it in a different way. Everyone's trying to figure out how you guys did it with those two draft classes. but is there something that you want to know that maybe just isn't possible to be known yet? You know, it's tough. It's challenging because I can't really think of anything

off the top of my head. He's like, well, we already know everything, so it's fine. Well, I can't give up state secrets, but, you know, it's challenging. What we're trying to do is take the formula that we have, look back at the previous draft classes, and how can we fine-tune this formula and make it something that that's even greater. And I think the more data that comes in, we're able to find more and more success

and more and more correlations with player success in that formula. And then from there, we can adjust things. People a lot smarter than me are able to do this. I'm just the one talking about it. But I think that that's what we're always trying to do. And it's like, how can we evolve what we currently have and continue to fine-tune it? And then, you know, when we get to a point where it doesn't need to be fine-tuned or we feel like it's in a good place, like it's just making sure when we get on draft day that we're living by that formula. And we're living by those intangibles and making sure that that is always our guiding light that we're, you know, focused on.

And when we get between two players, we're, you know, going to lean to the player that's, you know, more intangibly driven than the player that's not. And so I think a lot of it is putting it into practice and staying true to it and not necessarily. getting tempted, because I think that that's where things can get a little wonky when you end up chasing something that you're like, oh, man, this guy is so fast. And he's just, can we just make this one exception? Like, you really got to stay true of, stay true to exceptions and, and try to stay focused on your process and use the things that you have in your toolbox to make good decisions. I wish I had a better predictor answer for you, but I just don't, I don't know if I have one. I'm not that, you know, it's not my, it's not my area of expertise. He's like the matrix,

avoiding the aggregators right there, avoiding all the people probably listening to this from, from other teams. I'm last thing for you, John, I'm so grateful that you join me here today. And just to explain a little bit more about what you do and, and the process behind it. I'm getting my calendar ready for training camp. I know yours is probably already set in stone for the next several months at this point. And I'm just trying to mark down days. And I was just wondering if you could tell me what day Aaron Donald's expected to show up because I want to put on my calendar. Well, you know I can't say you know I can't say anything about that. But I will say my, if you looked at my YouTube search history, it's probably a lot of kids,

TV shows and Aaron Donald highlights and montages. So it was a fun summer. I'll say that. But other than that, I can't, I can't really say anything. You know, I had to try. I'm in logistics mode, you know, that's it. Not trying to get anything out. Just logistics. That's all. I get it. I'm a planner. I get it. Amazing. Well, John McKay, Assistant General Manager of the Los Angeles Rams. Thank you for joining me on NFL Daily's Power Players. Appreciate you, man. Thanks, Jordan. That was, of course, Rams Assistant General Manager, John McKay. I just really enjoyed that conversation. I love process. I like scouting a lot, as you guys know. And I liked hearing a little bit more about like the nuts and bolts that go on

behind the scenes of how to balance a bunch of different things and ideas and, and, you know, risks at once while still trying to lead the league in a lot of different areas, including what they're attempting to build this season on the field with the acquisition of Miles Garrett. Tried to get them on Aaron Donald. I'm so sorry to the Rams fans out there. I couldn't quite get him to spill the beans. But I thought it was a pretty impressive answer.

I just really enjoyed that. So thanks as always for checking out this episode of NFL Daily's Power Players. Thanks again to John McKay for his time. Coming up in your feed, we're not done with football or with you listeners yet. We are going to have myself in the other chair, thank God. And Greg Rosenthal back in this chair going around the AFC West coming to your feed on Friday. We'll see you then. This is an IHeart podcast.

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