NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - QB Index with Nick Shook

Episode Date: October 6, 2023

In a room full of heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, and Marc Sessler are joined by Nick Shook to check in on his QB Index four weeks into the season. The heroes run through the list from top to bottom starting with the top tier (04:45), followed by your mid QBs (14:13), and end it with your bottom tier (22:13). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler. Boys, this is something that we've been wanting to do. We were just looking for the right window to do it. And at the quarter pole-ish, it feels like a good time to check in with the QB index, which is a column for NFL.com that has been in very, very, good hands through the years. In fact, on today's program, I'm the only one that hasn't written the QB Index. You're writing it next year. Yeah. Over my dead body. But I've done power rankings, but it was a Chris Wessling joint, RIP. It was a Greg Rosenthal joint. It then was

a Mark Sessler joint. And then this off-season, he handed the reins to a man we're going to welcome in right now. He needs no introduction, actually, because you see him, every Sunday night on the flagship program. He just got in a pump, and he's a busy man. He's getting work to death. We're going to talk to Ely about that, by the way, in the newsroom. Nick Shook, he is the man, the myth, the writer of the NFL QB Index. Hi, buddy.

Hello, fellas. How are we doing today? I was very damage check of you. Hello, fellas. I love that we got you at the quarter pole because that was the week when I would do the QB Index year after year that. I would officially, like, I would put it in the notes that you take away any previous thoughts of, like, how good this quarterback is. And it's just about 20, 23 alone.

And it's a lot, it's a big enough sample size that it's like, okay, now I don't feel so bad. Like this year, for instance, totally burying Joe Burrow behind some nobodies. You've got to just evaluate it on this year. And this year, it's not pretty. A little shot below the knees, right? It shook before we could say a word. No, this is you're going to see the top. of that this week. I felt the same way. I looked back and I was like, you know, look,

it's been a month. They haven't done anything offensively with Joe Burrow. It's time to bury him. So I'm glad that you. Oh, yeah. I would have even more, but we'll get to that later. So, shook. The assignment itself, by the way, before we get into the top 10, yeah, with power rankings, the criticism could be withering from outside. But in quarterbacks, people are very, very, it's a very personal subject, a quarterback for a sports fan and their favorite team. So I would imagine it gets it gets pretty personal in your timeline people don't take kindly like maybe bangles fans of a guy that's a brown's writer of the qb index uh burying uh one of the generational players at qb at this stage of the season you get a lot of heat for this yeah it's too bad that i don't

have a better professional picture of me actually doing my job other than when i was with the browns and our great photographer there uh mad's darky shout out to him because that's my banner photo on my twitter page and i can't tell you how many times people get the mentions you go look at this guy he's a browns fan you got to change it i think you got to change it i think you got to change You do have to change. Yeah, instead of you doing a pump and you'll get a lot less. Don't, don't. Because everybody wants to now pretend that they're not fans.

I like that you're a fan. Not a shot at you, Mark. I'm not pretending anything, but I would say, Shook, the other problem you have is when you're- It's also five years old. That guy, you've got to update it. When you're burying it, like someone like... Who? Me?

Chuck. He's five years ago. I think I got to update mine as well. It's time. Go ahead, Mark. The benefits. I was going to say when you have Burrow, like, way down there. it's like people don't read the intro to these articles.

No. Or any context around what's happening. They just think that you're out of an outer space dropping like an all pro level quarterback in the middle of nowhere. And it's like it is based on what's happened in these recent weeks, my friends. Yeah. It's a rough existence. I considered writing an intro about Kirk Cousins a couple of weeks ago, but I just

decided to fold it into his little blurb because I was getting a lot of hate for not including Kirk Cousins in the top 10 when he was, you know, near the top of the league. And statistically, I've had people in my Instagram. mentions or my DMs calling me ignorant telling me I should be fired going to legs beyond that for my opinions on this thing but look guys most of you aren't watching every game you're watching your favorite team's game I've watched every game fools you have there's a lot of there's a lot of uh got to bite your tongue because so many of the so much of the criticism comes from dumb naive yeah but we have been watching all the games and we're going to come at you with

flame throwers all right yeah let's get into it yes this will be honest uh honest honest criticism, but with respect for the man that does the work, watches the game, and then compiles the list thoughtfully. Let's start with the top 10, and we'll work our way downward. Let's take a look at it right here. Josh Allen, yes, that shouldn't be a surprise because who's playing better than this man in the last three weeks, week one, an aberration. Here we go. Number two, Tua. Number three, Pat Mahomes, even after a clunker on Sunday night.

Lamar Jackson, four, Jalen Hertz, five, Justin Herbert six, down two spots. Brock Purdy at seven, DAC at eight, Matthew Stafford, at nine. And look at that. Isn't that funny? Why don't we start there? Jared Goff and Matt Stafford back to back in 2023 in the QB index. Mark, I'd be curious, your thoughts about this because you were writing this when Goff had kind of his reinvention with the Lions. Gough is an easy guy to put in the top 10

because who's been more consistent than him this year? Yeah, I mean, I think Gough last year when he started to really statistically rise up and was a different version that you have to like separate everything you kind of think about Jared Gough into what you're actually seeing and like in that offense he fits so well

and I think he cracked my top 10 by the end of the season. But it was one where you're just like you're going to get flame no matter what you do with the Jared Gough. Someone's going to just disagree with these, Nick. I think so much of this is, at least the perception of it is built on reputation, which is actually, oddly enough, how the first month usually looks until you get to this point.

But Jared Goff has consistently outperformed his reputation. I mean, even going back to week one, I was surprised to see so many people in my mention saying, I can't believe the Lions won despite how Jared Goff played. He didn't lose them the game. In fact, he put them in multiple positions to win the game. That's what he's done for the majority of this year. The only big mistake he made was turning the ball over in that overtime loss of the Seahawks. Otherwise, he's operating this offense.

He's probably playing some of the best football of his career. Yeah, it's not spectacular Josh Allen-level stuff, but it's consistent, it's reliable. And they're winning football games because of it. So I feel pretty good about him being in the top 10. It's clean. I think he's played better this year on balance because I think he's been more consistent to your point than he did a year ago.

But I would have him in Stafford still quite separate. When I looked at the rankings, because initially I just looked at him last week, and you had Stafford in the middle of the pack. and now you've bumped him up to nine. He's someone, and I know you're not doing enough stats because his stats aren't great, like touchdown interceptions. It's why I've never liked pass rating. Touchdown interception is just not great.

I mean, it's a bullet point to pay attention to, but if you're watching Stafford week after week as you are, I'm just so impressed with the quality of throws, and it's so hard in this exercise to divorce him from the situation, but I think in just terms of high-level quarterbacking what he's doing, He's a top five quarterback to me so far this year. Even before last week, I know he had the okay to bad Bengals game, but in three out of four weeks,

I think you can look at the way he's played. And in that week, he is up there with the Josh Allen's and the Mahomes for me right now. So I'd push him up even a little bit higher, but I'm glad you got him into the top tension. Yeah, that's the funny thing, Greg, is I don't even disagree with you. It's just that he came from the middle of the pack. And if he hadn't had that bad week three game, he'd be up there right now.

And, you know, it's funny because you say he's trying to divorce them from the situation, but you have to consider the situation in which he's operating right now. Look at his receivers. It's Pooka Nakua and it's 2-2-at-well. He's got Ronnie Rivers taking handoffs in the backfield. Kairn Williams is their lead back and a remade offensive line that's playing better than I anticipated that they would. And most importantly, he's healthy.

He looks really good. He looks like old Matt Stafford. He's pushing them to victories right now. In some ways better, maybe. In some ways better. Like, I think he's like kind of taken the things he's, learned over the years and physically he's still great right now at least we'll see about the hip but uh like i think he's playing as well as he did in the 2021 playoffs put it that way mark

throw out uh in this top 10 someone whose placement surprises you well you've mentioned the matthew stafford um i can i actually give you credit for brock purdy because i feel like other people would take brock purdy and just because of the offense that he's in the environment like that we all get it it may inflate the jimmy garoppelos of the world and other quarterbacks. Like, Brock Purdy, I don't know what else he needs to do. He may not be as physically impressive as the person above him, Justin Herbert. But what more at this level do you need to do to produce?

He was 20 for 21 a week ago. He distributes the ball all over the place. Like he's, I think to be a seventh round pick and to be what he's done since week 14 to last year, this is like a pristine performance by a quarterback. No one expected it. At number seven, I think other people would just sort of drop him out of the top 10 because of the, I guess, certain things that you just assume coming in,

like Brockporty deserves number seven. And to kind of dovetail off that joke, it kind of is in terms of what you do, it's interesting to me, how do you factor in when you make this list, you know, the setup around him, the environment, like you obviously aren't digging Brockford for it to have him in the top 10.

I'd probably have him outside the top 10 because of that reason, but I wouldn't have him buried either because he's still playing at a high level. Yeah, you know what? matters to me so much, and I think this is extremely applicable with Brock Purdy, is are you hurting your team? That's the first thing I need to check off the list. If you're not hurting your team, all right, then we're in the positive territory. Are you helping your team

win games? All right, that's the next positive, you know, area. That's, that's, are you executing the offense? Are you winning games for your team? Those are the three different levels that I kind of consider when I watch these guys. And that's the thing is, they're not, but you can help push your team to a victory with your performance. What he's doing right now is executing this offense exactly as it's intended. I think that if he was in some other situations, he wouldn't be as good, but you could say that about most anybody. And

more than anything, he's playing clean football. It's kind of like Jared Goff in a sense, except that it's much more effortless even than the lion's offense that the 49ers is. I mean, yeah, he's got a lot of talent around him, of course, but he's calm, he's cool, he's collected. He's somebody I enjoy watching because the confidence in that pocket right now, sometimes to a fault occasionally.

It's just so remarkable for a guy who's so young. He plays it like he's a 10-year veteran. He's not hurting them. He's throwing the ball downfield to Brandon Iyuk. He's dumping an offense on time to Christian McCaffrey. It's just a well-oiled machine. And a lot of that has to do with a guy who executes it perfectly. And it makes a lot of sense why they committed to him in the offseason.

It's so funny, though, because we just went through this five-year debate about Jimmy G in the exact same offense. And it's like an AB test because I think you can see pretty clearly he's better than Jimmy G. I think he is. And he has a higher ceiling than Jimmy G. Now, Jimmy G, just by wins losses, by EPA per play, was a Hall of Famer. I mean, just by those stats. I mean, by, if he was healthy. But, like, in terms of, like, the EPA per play, he was top four every year.

Touchdown interception, wins, losses, top five every year. Still uncomfortable just even putting Apollo and Hall of Fame in the same. Right, no, no. And I'm not. I know what you're saying. So that's why, and I think you can look at Purdy, and I think you can see him a little better. And I was like, Dan, I saw that. And I'm like, oh, that's too high for Purdy.

I don't, because to me, I think you look at Stafford, you look at Hertz, I would even throw cousins, I would actually throw Gino in there. This is where it gets murky and Stroud? And you think, is he making the guys around him better? Is he elevating the offensive? Is he doing high-level quarterback stuff? But then I decided to be fair to you, actually make my own list. And in the end, it's like, actually, no, I still would have him at a DAC and ahead of goff.

And I have them around 11 or 12. It's not that big of a difference from eight or nine. Like a few spots. It does hurt me. It does hurt me. We got 12 minutes into the show until Greg said we're going to work off his list now so we can say goodbye to you. Thank you again. See you Sunday night.

I mean, you got to make the list. It's like people who say, oh, that's a snub. You snubbed them from the Pro Bowl. Well, then tell me what you would have put him in. So I had to make my own ring. And then I realized, you know what? It's not that crazy. All right.

That's a good theory and a way to do it. Before we move into the middle tier and anybody else jump in, I want to give you a shout out here for, Jalen Hertz and he has not moved from next week. You had him number five last week, number five this week. Some of the, it almost felt like the Salem Witch Trials, the hysteria around the passing game of the Eagles and all that stuff. Like, that's fun. This is a top five quarterback.

They're figuring things out. You saw that against Washington. The passing game with A.J. Brown was unstoppable. Devante Smith had a huge play. Like, I'm feeling very good about Hertz. And that's respect for Mahomes, obviously, keeping them in the top three, despite him not being a top three producer. four weeks. Yeah, definitely. This is the first time that I had Mahomes out of the top two, and it felt justified because of the game that he had in New York. But the body of work

overall, you know, he's had a spectacular game against the Bears, kind of middling stuff, otherwise, a tough one, even though they won that game against the Jets. So, I mean, he's still that guy. He played great in week one, though, I thought, like, that's a thing. To me, he would have stayed in the top two. You're right, the Jets game was bad. I mean, last week was bad. But before that, like, I know the numbers, I guess, weren't there, but who's out playing him? Maybe Allen maybe to us so that makes sense you said one big I just mean from numbers statistically one big game and he's been okay as a producer but that's not just what this list is about and I like that mark anything else before we move on no I want to move on all right I got something

in the next tier that's all right we'll start you off then let's check out the second tier here number 11 down two spots Kirk cousins Gino Smith at 12 down six uh oh greggies sharpen his fangs no I'm I'm impressed he had Gino what six going into week four so i love you for that same uh how about this texans fans you got a new world because c j stroud is up seven spots to 13 sam howell up 11 he washes that four pick game out of his mouth and moves up to 14 baker 15 uh and shook the browns fan is feeling good about that russell wilson down two to 16 anthony richardson hmm i don't like that we'll talk about it 17 Trevor Lawrence down 7 to 18.

Woof. Justin Fields 19 and Jordan Love down five spots to 20. I should mention Justin Fields up 12 spots to 19. So do the math. He was buried at the bottom of this list before week four. Mark, what are you seeing? We should talk about Anthony Richardson. That's a tough one in this exercise. And like you're going to, this is going to be interesting season to see where he goes on this list.

Trevor Lawrence to me, I just think that like I don't see a quarterback that's lesser than last season. But I do see a lot of, I think he's got some of the top drops in the league in terms of like not being helped by his wide outs. He set some tough situations in the red zone and the Ed zone. I think like Trevor Lawrence to me, I would comfortably put him above like the Sam Howell, the Baker Mayfield, the Russell Wilson of the world above Gino, frankly. I just, and part of me then, and this is why I struggle with this exercise a little bit is like couldn't separate like who I truly believe Trevor Lawrence is from maybe some up and down performance of the offense. like, I'd move these guys all around during the exercise of it.

But Lawrence, to me, just stands out. I think he's PFSF's number two quarterback. That's a different metric, let them do their thing. Wow, that's a little showy by PFF. It's a little showy, but I think Trevor Lawrence, Trevor Lawrence, like, has just not been that different from the guy that I came into the season, loving personally. So, Nick, I wonder what brought you to the point of putting them down at 18. Yeah, I think it goes back to Greg's point that after a month of football,

you kind of reorganized based on what they've done this year. Because I agree with you wholeheartedly. That was one of the more difficult ones. And it's why, as you know, producer Eric, copied and pasted my spreadsheet that I made. Do you guys like my color coordination? Yeah. You are much more organized than I. Wow.

Look at that. Whoa. Do you have the team color? That was you? Oh, yeah. I thought that was Roberts. No, that was me. And so I caution putting the move week by week in there.

It's really for my own tracking than anything, but I thought, hey, why not send it over? Because it looks drastic with some guys. Like, Lawrence didn't have a seven-spot drop-worthy performance last week. It's just that after a month where he started, where I've kind of kept him based on a mix of reputation and performance, and then now just looking at this season, I just feel like they're not quite there yet. And it's really not his fault. Mark's completely right.

There were some near misses. There were some drops. There were some issues. The offense has just really not gotten completely going. But at the same time, I know who he is. And I know that eventually they're going to get there. They just haven't put together complete performances as an offense with Lawrence so far. And that's not entirely his fault, but that's just where he stands.

I'd push back, though, because I can get why. PFF have, I'm surprised he's two. Seems high. But they're gradi... You know what I'm saying, by the way. Right. It's like, that's PFF almost like, look at us. We see the game.

Here's the second best quarterback in football this year. Andy Dalton, 2022. And I used to try to do this too. I had my own little system to it that I didn't think was scientific, but it was my system of you grade each player, you grade positives, negatives. And they're looking at Lawrence. And I kind of know which quarterbacks end up doing well in their system. It's quarterbacks who don't make bad throws.

He doesn't do that. That on a play-to-play basis, if you just grade him, isn't having many negatives and is going to have a lot of positives. And I still see that with him this year. Now, two is a step too far for me, but I think he's running the offense. They're asking, and occasionally maybe he's getting rid of the ball too quickly, not holding on for that extra beat and looking for something downfield.

It's almost like he's anticipating that. got a bad offensive line and they, and they do have a bad offensive line. So I would have them lower, but I would have them in the top 10. Because I think he's playing at quite a high level. To me, he would be in the Gough, Gino area. And I'd put him maybe a little higher than that right at the back end of the top 10, even just on this season, because I think it's more the offense and what's been around him that's hurting his numbers. And you know the other product of this is, too, because that's essentially where he was prior to this week. It's the reshuffling of other guys that just knocks some guys down, you know, moving Stafford up, moving Hal back up,

who's been the most volatile player in this entire group so far. Eventually, guys just kind of slide down and then you look at it, you reorder a little bit more and you think, okay, after a month, that's kind of where they are, even though I know Trevor's a better player than that ranking right now. I think this, I think he did a really good job here with what you call the middle class to the upper middle class. I would maybe personally have Richardson a little higher because I think he's shown himself to be a playmaker, but durability is part of the gig as well.

I thought you were going to say you wanted Richardson. lower i like that i mean like this is dan sky yeah i mean i mean up around cousins and genos okay i think he should be just i just think he's done a lot in a little amount of time uh but the playing time is in part because he's been hurt and that's a problem as well i love howell mayfield russ back to back to back because they're all comps for each other right right they all remind me of each other and it's interesting to look at them that is your uh dalton line right now that is kind of the middle, at least, of the NFL right now. Shuck, you nailed it.

Howell, Mayfield, Wilson. And how about C.J. Stroud? I know, I don't think anyone's arguing. I'm not. That seems perfect for his spot, but what a... I'd put him above Gino even, so... Yeah, what a month out of him. It's not too low. And Kirk. Similar, I think...

Put him right on the doorstep of the top ten. That's glorious. It's funny. Those three actually remind me of each other a little bit stylistically, too, just in terms of how they win, what they do well. Tell us what you just seen in C.J. Stroud. Just what you like. have at him. Accuracy, poise, confidence in an offense that suits him perfectly. He's throwing guys open. He looks like he's been in the league for five years. They're winning because of him. He looks way better than even I anticipated. And the Texans are a fun watch because he's playing

quarterback right now. And, you know, that was a big jump to move him up there, but I felt he completely earned it. And the only difference, really, like, you kind of get a Stroud and Richardson sandwich here with those three guys that are similar comps in between. And the only reason is, is because Richardson hasn't been in every game and, you know, the durability thing. That's it. That's the only reason. Otherwise, C.J. Stroud right now, like we've talked about, you know, this week,

a leading candidate for offensive rookie of the year. And I think Richardson's going to make a strong play for that. If Richardson continues to play like this, they're going to be neck and neck in these rankings throughout the year. The only one I'm seeing here that maybe bump it up against a little bit before we move on. Jordan Love, you have at 20. I would imagine for you, he's been a kind of a tough evaluation

because he's shown really exciting moment. moments and moments of leadership and playmaking, but also he's had a lot of his core missing. And there have been some dry spots Thursday night against the lines last week was not great shakes. Has he been a little tough for you to play so far? Yeah, he just hasn't played a complete game yet. You know, there's been flashes where he's gone out there and led them back to victory against the Saints and done some really good things, some exciting things. But watching him is kind of an unhinged experience because he doesn't quite have everything together

underneath him. And he'll try to make the superhero play a little bit too odd. often. And then he kind of settles down, shorter passes, gets into a rhythm, and then suddenly that offense is unlocked and he finds success. Just not complete and consistent over a four-game stretch so far. But I like what I see from him. I think he's got a bright future. And I'll just make a quick note before we move to the back end that we're recording this ahead of TNF kickoff week five. So don't get fired up about Fields and Howell's placement if they do something marvelous or terrible on Thursday. Very possible with those two quarterback. Yes. So this is all

through week four. And now let's move to the bottom of Now, bottom of the barrel is not fair. But this is the bottom third of the QB index. Ryan Tannahill up eight spots. So he was buried, but he moves up to 21. Derrick Carr drops one spot to 22. Joe Burrow, that's the conversation that we hinted at it early on, and we should get back into it.

Down 11 to 23, Aiden O'Connell, the Raiders rookie, 24. Look at Joe Burrow just ahead of Aider, O'Connell. What a world. Josh Dobbs, 25. up three spots. Zach Wilson after showing signs of life on Sunday night football up six to 26. Bryce Young, the first overall pick at 27, down one spot. Mack Jones takes a nosedive after the Cowboys debacle,

down nine spots to 28. Kenny Pickett down seven spots after a rough one against Houston to 29. Daniel Jones, another dirt nap, down seven to number 30 after a wipeout on Monday night football. Desmond Ritter more or less stays where he is. at number 31, rightfully so. And yeah, Dorian Thompson, Robinson. Shuki, watched that game yesterday, and that was a tough debut for DTR, get well soon.

Deshawn Watson. Where is Deshaun Watson? So he's off the list because he... So can I, like, I don't... Shook, are they, I hope they're helping you out here more. Last year, like when Jalen Hertz went out for a week and MNshu came in two weeks, you have to, like, you act like Jalen Hertz doesn't exist.

And suddenly Gardner Minchew comes into the lineup And I'm sure they've corrected this because I had to, it would cause me four or five days of utter havoc. But, you know, Jalen Hertz was hanging out at one or two. And then he goes out. And it's like they put out Mark Sessler's top 10 QB list. And Jalen Hertz isn't even in the top 10. And there isn't like an asterisk that says like injured players not shown. And just like suddenly everyone east of the Mississippi is like taking out like a verbal machine gun to take me out.

So I hope for your sake that that's not happening. I just say, and I'm sure it is happening, Shook, still. but I mean, that's how the sausage gets made, but I would say maybe a conversation with Ali Bumperi to get these guys into the list. He was very receptive, so this isn't like me a year later trying to throw a brick. I'm saying, let's get to Sean just because he missed the week.

So you can blame me because that was, you know, I started QB index and this was my policy. But you could change the policy because I wanted to write about who this played. I get it. You wanted, like, if a rookie, you waited until the week after, but if you have a rookie play in his first. game you want to write about how he looked and so you would you and when you're writing about these guys

like 18 19 weeks in a row getting a fresh face in there is not that that was part of it writing 22 blurbs about derrick car you're I'm ready to like jump off a cliff at some point this is definitely an offline conversation okay yeah no no the thing is you guys you're what you're doing is I'm taking a lot of bullets every week with this and I know that that's part of the job but you just gave me like a handful of smoke grenades incredible cover I'm moving from one bunker to the next right now thank you guys I uh I uh couldn't believe I believe how low Josh Dobbs was. And this is where I think if you're getting to week five,

maybe more than any player on this list, you're just evaluating how he's played on a week-to-week basis. I think he's number two in the NFL, ESPN, QBR, in terms of rushing value. He's like middle of the pack overall, but rushing value. Isn't that crazy? He's been a great runner, great decision-maker, I would say, been accurate. You know, he doesn't have all the pop in his arm. and all that.

And the production's been good, not great. To me, he's up there in the, maybe a head even of the Dalton line in terms of how he's played. All right, Greg, where you have him on your rank, on your rankings. Just then. But he reminds me of this year's like, I'd like to see where he has. He's like this year's Jacoby Brissette, who like people were like, no, I'm not believing what I'm seeing. Right. He's not as high as maybe I'm making it sound.

I had him 17, so a little higher, 17, 16, right near Russ and Baker. You have him at 25. To me, he's, he's right in that great. group where, man, he's playing some good ball. He would have sat there if he hadn't had accuracy issues in the first half in week four. That was the biggest drawback to me was that he missed a number of open guys over the middle early in that game as they fell behind. He was.

He was erratic. And in the win over the Cowboys, he did his job well. The rushing value really showed in that game. But it wasn't necessarily a game where he had to go throw them to victory as much as he did his job, did it well. So I think that if he were to put together a type of game that he had in the second half against the 49ers in a full game in the week ahead, you'll see him rise back up.

He's the one guy where I want to keep nudging him. I just keep going on. I mean, there's no way Joe Burroughs played better than him this year, for instance. No. Or Carr, or Tana Hill. That's all I'm saying. It's a tough assignment, though. It is. No, no. He knows it's not personal. Yeah, how about, so Bryce Young, I feel like this

is shaping up as a tricky one. A tricky one for Panthers fans. For Bryce Young, you're probably feeling a lot of frustration because there are quarterbacks in your class who are thriving that were taken right behind you not only can you are you dealing with injury issues the surrounding talent is not at a high level is he a difficult evaluation again because of the injuries and the supporting cast like what are you seeing from him as a quarterback so far yeah it situation does matter i also think this is an uninspired offense under

frank rike and his staff so far they're not doing him a lot of favors but he's also not doing himself a lot of favors you know he's playing too much superhero ball trusting his physical attributes that found success at Alabama that are not going to create the same positive plays in the NFL. I mean, I think about that strip sack that he gave up, you know, that basically swung the game on Sunday against the Vikings. It was a play where you just take the sack. You know, you see the rush in your face, he take the sack. He tried to get rid of the ball, tried to evade the tackler. He fumbled his return for a touchdown. Those are the types of mistakes where he just he can do everything and he can't quite do everything and hasn't learned it yet. And then the

situation also matters as well. Doesn't have the best supporting cast. So I think that he has a positive bright future. It's just that, you know, you got to understand. and you've got to play a little bit more within yourself at this point. I look at the bottom, and I forget DTR here, but Bryce Young, Mack Jones, Kenny Pickett, Daniel Jones, Desmond Ritter. I wish I could come at you with something, but I don't have a huge problem with that at all. This is where these guys belong right now. Well, a couple of those guys have bad offensive lines and poor schemes.

Kenny Pickett being one of those. It's a combination of the two in Pittsburgh. It feels like every third down they face is third and 12 or longer. I think he's starting to see ghosts because he doesn't trust his offensive line. Daniel Jones was mauled on Monday night. I felt bad for him because you do see glimpses of him, but overall he has not lived up to the expectation. And then Mack Jones, another guy who tries to do a little bit too much,

throwing a pass across the field, getting picked off, throwing an ugly interception later, getting strips back from behind, trying to evade. It was a really rough game for him. It wasn't as ugly as I thought it was going to be, statistically speaking. But then I looked back and I was like, ah, man, this is not a good trend for him right now. He has not settled in at all.

Yeah, let's circle back to Burrow. Because I think, again, being a veteran at listicles here, at NFL.com. It's kind of a good one for you because that's the headline. Burrow drops into the bottom tier or whatever. It's in the netherworld. And you can back it up statistically. You can back it up at the eye test.

And before people can, you know, get on you, including Bengals fans, you say, listen, you're seeing it. This is not Joe Burrow. I mean, his name is Joe Burrow. He still looks like a full-grown McCauley Culkin. Like, he still looks like Joe Burrow. but the player robbed of his athleticism is not the same player.

And you could even argue, Shook. You could argue you could put him lower because of how stilted and really DOA, this offense is with this type of quarterback right now. I've been vocal about he should be out of the lineup until he gets a little bit better or a lot better. But they seem determined to have him play through this.

Tough one. We are bordering on gross negligence on the part of the Bengals right now with Joe Burrow because he is not physically capable of being the player that he wants to be that he's gotten to this point in his career by being. He can't move. He's a statue in the pocket. He's like Tom Brady in the pocket except he doesn't have

Tom Brady's pre-snap abilities and cannot deliver the same way Tom Brady did without getting out and running. It's not that Joe Burrow is a mobile quarterback per se, but his ability to extend plays, navigate the pocket and then pick up rushing, you know, positive gains when he needs to, is part of what makes him great. And instead he's stuck

behind an offensive line that's okay. that's not great but is okay is not doing him any favors neither is the fact that the bengals for some reason don't want to run the football with joe mixon other than on the first drive of the game their play calling has done him no favors they're asking him to do way too much right now and that's why you're getting this stagnant offense where joe burrow looks rather mortal instead of some superhuman deserving of the highest contract in the NFL it's backing up where he puts him I like it that was very uh i don't know if you happen to hear the the flea like baseline or something that was in the background there but shook just went through it like that was

We actually paid him $400 to lay that down underneath. That was a phone vibrating on the table. Oh, that's what that was. Shook, it's about the illusion, my friend. See a show me. I thought it was great. It was like CJ Stroud ignoring the pressure in the pocket. I just want to say a shout.

I'm with you on where you put TANL, but just. By the way, that was Nick Wessling calling you angry about Joe Burrow. And also seeing, I was right about Stroud. The Wesslings were high on, high on Stroud, but they're high on every Ohio State. Can we talk to him? Hill real quick. Yeah. Yeah.

You know what I'm going to call him now from now on, Diet Kirk Cousins because, you know, he's not as delicious as a classic Coca-Cola. You know, he's more, he just gets the job done when you want the taste of Coke, but you don't want the calories or all the sugar. That's Diet Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannahill, who's been very up and down this year. When he has time to throw and they're able to build out of the run, you know, play action, he's good. He's never going to be great.

When he doesn't have time to throw, he's a nightmare. It's a disaster. And that's what it's been so far. Like that Browns game, I actually, when I rewatch, I was like, I don't put much of this on Tana Hill. I actually think he played like okay in that game. He was a bit of a disaster week one but he's been strong since. And I have a soft spot in my heart because

QB Index started. It was my first year at the NFL. I was still living in New York. QB Index started as a project to watch the great quarterback class of 2012 coaches film every week and rank them and just go through their games every week. So it was

RG3, it was luck, it was Russ who's still on this list. It was Tannahill. It was Brandon Whedon. And then Nick Foll snuck in there with a couple starts in the mix, too. And Tannahill, I really love him because I think he's really developed so much as a quarterback. Back then, he was just sort of a guy who threw the ball straight and a big, strong athlete and it barely played the position. And now here we are.

How many seasons later? 14 to 12 seasons later. And he's still kicking on this list. Russ is still kicking. The column's still kicking in much different form with a much bigger, stronger. writer behind the helm is doing a great job. Good job, Shucky. Thanks, guys. I appreciate you. That was real

nice. Any other thoughts? Gentlemen. Well, I think part of this exercise, because people are just going to look at the list. That's it. They get all upset. They run around. Their farmstead or whatever they live. But, like, the actual, it's 32 like,

boiled down thick graphs on each player that come from a lot of film study. It takes a lot of work goes behind it. You've got to prove your point like you just did on borough, but you've got to add a little spice to the writing. We've got to know who Nick Shook is versus the last writer or the writer previous or who ever comes next. And Shook, I've read each one of these, and I just want to say the writing and your, like,

whimsical nature with some of the entries is part of the delight. So don't just look at the list. Read the whole thing, reader. That's a good sales pitch. I appreciate you. Well said. Got it. He's just a kid from Akron.

Don't change your Twitter photo. I mean, but at some point, it's false advertising. You don't want to be one of those guys that's, you know, got the, like, five-year-old picture. Yeah, but look at, look at his buy and try. It's better today. Look at the, on the left sleeve. So he's interviewing, who's the player he's interviewing there? That's Larry Ogum-Jobie.

Okay, Ogum-Jovee. Like three teams ago. Yeah, Larry, you're interviewing a guy named Larry. And look on the left arm the way the sleeve hugs the buy and the try. Now, do we want to, if we want to get some people off your back, do you want to Photoshop the Brown's helmet off the breastplate there? Sure, you can do that. But I would not get away from the photo because it really checks a lot of boxes otherwise.

I'm not going to lie, I have a backpack that I got from the Browns and I still work for the team, and I've thought about sewing an NFL patch over it on multiple occasions for this very reason. Shook, never changed. Thank you for this. And we really did want to highlight the great work you're doing. and the NFL QB index. Because who doesn't love chopping up the quarterbacks? And check out Shook on Twitter at The Nick Shook.

Hell, check out his Twitch handle. The Nick Shook. Yeah. Check them out in a big spot while we're in London, bringing that Sunday night week six recap home with Patrick. Yeah, I'm glad that we can add more work to your plate. It sounds like you're not doing enough, Nick. So good job.

Thank you for giving me a plastic. to defend myself before they come at it's the game day graphic by the way the NFL game day account that's the one the graphic yeah that's the I'm still getting notifications thank you thank you thank you guys and uh last but not least check out nick shook every sunday night on the flagship podcast where he does a great job helping us out with the game coverage see you later but all right guys see you all right there goes nick shook again yeah NFL dot com slash qb index uh read it every week and uh that That is a bonus app around the NFL.

No cost. And a nice little part of ATN history here. ATN when it was a blog for a news thing. And we used to have a lot of QBNX arguments right here on this podcast. Absolutely. It's a dynasty. And it's in shook's hands. Until next time, heed the call.

Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand. the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it.

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