NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Raiders Fire Pierce and QB Island Finale

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic for the final episode of QB Island! Before QB Island, the crew discusses the Raiders firing Antonio Pierce (03:45) and the Titans firing Ran Carthon (13:37). After the break, the 2024 Class of QB Island is decided, starting with those safe from being voted off (28:36), followed by those who could be voted off the island (33:14) and those who have played well enough to get a shot at making their way onto the island (47:57). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always on Island Time. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesseling podcast studio. and it's a full house because it's a QB Island Tuesday, Connie Fox,

Colleen Wolf, to my right, Steve Weish and Jordan Rodrigue of the athletic. How are we doing here for the season finale of America's favorite program? I've been waiting all season for it. Okay.

You weren't even here for the last episode. I think we're all just waiting to see how you're going to change the rules on the fly again. Thank you, Steve, for saying that. There's a lot of feedback about this. Okay, I know. I got grief upstairs. I got grief.

It was fun. Why did you get grief? They were saying, because someone was pitching Bryce Young as a potential QB Island resident. I said, yeah, we should absolutely talk about Bryce Young. He's like, well, if you're talking about like right now, and I was like, well, I was thinking it's maybe,

it's the last one of the season. I think this should be a document for the entire season. And then multiple people are like, well, you know, you got to make up rules and stick to them. You never stick to the rules or whatever. have feelings. I've been getting that grief from Jordan as well. Yes. Every week we do this, something new just sort of

emerges in terms of whether... That's the fun of it. Just whether it's the parameters of how we're judging these guys changes. You know, first we started with whatever you want. Right. And who is defining quarterback play right now. Those are Greg Rosenthal's. Yeah, I like that. Then it was a four-game sample size. It was never

a four-game sample size. It also was Jordan. Defend Greg, you can't be hurt and be on here either. Yeah. That became something. It was a long time injury. So I think for this one, I have always said anyone can interpret it however they want. But I do think this is the last one of the season because some of these quarterbacks can't play anymore. And it'd be good to have a document of the season. And it was never a four game sample. It was just... You've said it on the show. You have. What I mean is like we've...

It's a real fluid competition here. We only are talking in four week chunks. So it was like you're adding that new four week sample to the overall picture. and you're maybe given a little more weight. A four-week sample size to argue for or against B. We have stuff to get to. We have news. We wanted to do... You can't hear you.

You're breaking up. He has to call you back. Oh, my mic cut out. Someone cut the cord of my mic all this. We wanted to do Cubey Island for the whole show. But NFL was NFL in. And frankly, life is lifing. And I already feel better with the camera turning on and talking to you guys and talking

about QB Island. Then we did a half an hour ago watching the, these wildfires in the palisades not far from us and so we were hoping to tape this show and get out of here but yes Jordan I got in here nice and early to do a lot of prep and stuff today

and it's like I have not been doing any prep worrying about friends and just what's going on and the schools are close I will say too like I learned something really cool about Greg today and I genuinely mean this Greg like when one person is panicking slightly and like clutching their sternum, the other person gets really, really calm.

And Greg was really, really calm. Oh, yeah. He's a rock in those situations. Being somewhat in the vicinity of these things. Yes. And I had just gotten off the phone with my wife, who I was the one more freaking out and being like, you got the waters in the car and we're ready to like get out of here. Transfer of calmness.

Thank you, Emeka. Yeah. Because she's the reason why that calm transferred to me. Yes. So we will talk a little news. We'll get the QBI and then we'll get out of here and make sure everyone. is safe in West L.A. Unfortunately, in Las Vegas, the job status of a lot of people there, not safe, including their head coach. Antonio Pierce was fired on Tuesday when we talked on Monday's show

with Ian Rappaport. He made it clear. No one really knows what's going on there. Antonio Pierce is acting like he feels like it's safe. He did his press conference as normal, but we learned on Tuesday, Mark Davis after consulting people around them, including minority owner, Tom Brady, decided to make the decision to change coaches. Antonio Pierce, Steve, is out after only one full season. He was the interim in 2023.

And Tom Telesco, the general manager, is staying, at least for now. For now. For now. I mean, look, it's the Raiders. We don't know when, you know, they could have delayed reaction. They didn't have to let Antonio Pierce go out there

and do that press conference yesterday. They knew they were doing this. You heard, you've heard for weeks that he's likely going to be won and done. Oh, you know, we had the cover of him winning, what, his final few games. You know, Mark Davis is excited about that. They're not going to have the first overall pick, but they don't care about all this stuff. And then let him go. And this, again, no surprise.

But, I mean, what did you expect? I mean, honestly. Multiple things can be true here, Steve. Correct. Yeah, I mean, what did you expect out of this team? They had no quarterback. Right. What skill position guy?

other than when they start the season they had Devante Adams once he was like who threat the whole season what did you expect it was the same thing in New England this was a rebuild with no quarterbacks where you expect to make the playoffs they competed

now I'm not saying there may be other reasons why they wanted to get rid of Antonio Pierce but this I'm just going to say this coming on the heels of of Rancarthon the GM of Tennessee getting fired after two years and I said it the other day on air

look the frustration for a lot of minority coaches is they don't get the patience of some other coaches they don't get that Joe Judge patience right and so two one and done in coaches with Gerad May and Antonio Pierce ran Carthon titans you get the first overall pick and they blow them out okay

so you're going to understand my phones are blowing up you're going to understand why a lot of people black coaches stuff saying this is when we tell our kids this we tell everyone this you can't make a mistake they're not as patient with us as they are with others again there may be legitimate reasons right here but optics are everything

and look at the organizations. It just is what it is. I just want to see how they replace them. It is interesting that Telesco still has his job. The Elliott Wolf still has his job. You know, in that situation that the guy replacing Rancarthon was there still has his job,

but they're out. I mean, so again, optics is everything and my interpretation of those optics say one thing. They may well deserve for these guys to be out, but it is what it is. I know we're starting off QB Island episode, on some stuff, but it is what it is. It was so disrespectful, I thought, to Antonio Pierce,

for them to wait this long, because everyone knew it was going to happen and everyone was just kind of looking at their phones, calling people, texting people, just waiting for the shoe to drop. And like you said, for him to go out there and do that press conference, it's just like they did him dirty.

Tom Telesco is really good at keeping his job and as the head coach gets axed after a two seasons. This was obviously a similar situation. And Steve, to your point, teams who don't know what they want exacerbate systemic issues that we know are real in this league via hiring processes and these are teams that lack direction

when they brought people on board lack direction when they let them go and it's a thin coaches market too there's a couple of strong candidates we know this but talking to agents coaches agents around the league they consider this even with their own clients they consider this to be a thin coach and GM hiring market

And it also explains why the ones who are staying patient, who have the luxury of patients at Joe Shane and a Brian Dable, for example, it explains in part as to why Mara is comfortable staying patient. This is considered to be a thin market. Yeah, Ian mentioned how owners amongst themselves were talking about how expensive it is to have this dead money of all these staffs because it's not just the head coach. You're placing a lot of people.

My God, the Raiders especially. The smart thing to do. Mark Davis. Texans were on that hook for a long time. Mark Davis, not afraid of that. I mean, he is paying multiple staffs. And you're so right about not knowing what they want. Because, like, Telesco wasn't even there when Antonio Pierce was hired.

Correct. He was an assistant. And just a small point on Telesco and Ellie Wolf, we'll see if they stay. You always keep the GM in this situation. Because you just don't know where it's going to go, but they also might end up losing their jobs or at the very least demoted. We just don't know there. Now, Pierce was an interesting case.

I do think it was different than Mayo, at least from the outside. I think he had them playing hard and played to the level that they should play. I think Gerard Mayo was uniquely struggling with the front-facing portions of the job. With the media and with his own players, losing respect of both. At a level that, like I said on this show, reminded me a lot of Freddie Kitchens. and reminded me a lot of Nate Hackett. And I think he had a uniquely bad year. I think Antonio Pierce has done a good job

since he took over on balance. What did you possibly expect? Look at what he's working with. I talk about a lot on this show, actually. I was always impressed watching the Raiders that they were always in these games. They could have won a lot more. They did win four.

Like, they won four. Even that Chargers game, they're leading until late in the second quarter. Like, we'll see if the Texans play them that tight. on Saturday. That can be true and that is true. And it also, unfortunately, is true that they're clearly looking for an improvement of that. There also was a somewhat seismic, although they're going to pretend it's a very small percentage, but a seismic shakeup within that quote-unquote ownership group. They have somebody new who's going to be making decisions. That's Tom Brady,

who's going to be having input and insight into the future direction of this franchise, including which quarterback that this team eventually takes. Mark Davis is going to be listening to him too. I'm sure he's going to have a lot more influence. The number one guy, he's going to be seeking input. And I really feel for Pierce, but there were distractions with this team, and he had a major distraction. It was a big story in training camp, the bankruptcy filing that Antonio Pierce ultimately was responsible for tens of millions of dollars in a civil judgment that we don't need

to go back to get into. deep here, but basically he, by all accounts, got involved in a business that was not on the up and up. Whatever his involvement was, it was a huge distraction for him. And people around that team noted the difference in when they broke for OTAs and minicamp before that, and when he came back, and it was a little bit of a different Antonio Pierce, a little more muted and a difficult thing in his life that he's dealing with with his family at the same time. And that, that might have been part of all of this. And again, that can also be one of the many truths here.

I think about assistants like Patrick Graham, who has done a stellar job coordinating that defense year over year and staying the course despite a lot of shakeup in that building and a lot of changes in that building. And he is somebody who should, and in my opinion, deserves to get interviews, at least be talked about in the conversation of head coaches. But you think about all of the assistants. You think about the coordinators.

you think about the tenured players on teams such as this, Max Crosby comes to mind, who was very vocal back when they were deciding whether to give Antonio Pierce the full-time tag after being the interim head coach. Max Crosby was very vocal about who he wanted his coach to be. And, you know, going from McDaniels to... Rich Pesatia.

And Pesachia, I mean, he's thriving. Good for him, you know. And then going into... I mean, it all started with... Gruden. Also, John Gruden. I mean, think about how many coaches they've had just since they moved to Vegas. This is now going to be their fifth head coach that they're looking for.

Yes. And this was in 2020. Exactly. They moved there. Exactly. And so I do think about really strong, very, very highly regarded coaches such as Patrick Graham, who are kind of caught in the Smelstrom of. Right. I know.

And they got every former head coach in the league on that staff. And, you know, Marvin Lewis is there. I need to know. What are you thinking? I'm just all I'm saying. I need to know. It's the Raiders, man. Yeah.

I mean, you talk to everyone around the league, like, no surprises here. There's just certain teams that have these systemic issues, and it's like, the Jets are won, and so are the Raider. I mean, just the impulsive. It's the impulsiveness of leadership. It is what do you want? That goes back to what you were saying, Jordan. What is it that you want?

Okay, you got excited about the momentum of Antonio Pierce's interim coach, guys smoking cigars, guys playing their tails off. Okay, what is you, what are you going to give them to help build your team with? Here's what you want. You want whatever Tom Brady, you want Tom Brady involved on changing your direction. And one quick thing on Patrick Graham, he actually is interviewing for the head coaching job in Jacksonville, they announced.

And he also, at least, was asked to interview for the defensive coordinator job in Cincinnati. Oh, he'd be a, oh, interesting, yeah. He does have, he'd be a great. He does have interviews. Now, I wonder if there's going to be a battle for Mike Rable now between the Raiders. Probably exactly what Mike Vrabble wants.

And the Patriots, Tom Brady's old teammate, Brady versus Kraft. A bidding more. And that brings us to the Rancarthon news because Mike Rabel ultimately lost a power struggle with Rancarthon just a year ago. Ownership favored, like Rabel and Carthon did not see eye to eye.

And they ultimately kept Rancarthon going into 2024, hired Brian Callahan, fired Mike Rabel. And then Rancarthon doesn't even get to do two full drafts there. And it's crazy to think, how one transaction has changed an entire franchise. John Robinson, the former GM, trades Antonio, I mean, trades E.J. Brown to the Eagles.

Just weeks later, he's fired. Then Mike, they bring in Rancarthon. He gets in a power struggle with Vrable. Vrable gets fired. And now here's Rancarthon. And this is just like, this is how bad teams stay bad. And this is the ripple effect that gives Howie Roseman's number two. what, Alec Hallaby, the job

in Tennessee? What if that's the full circle moment here? I mean, my goodness. The Howie Roseman sitting on his throne watching the worlds that he's created across the league and every half the front offices in this damn league. But for Brian Callahan now, you're like,

well, I'm on thin ice here. I know they're saying I'm coming back, but you know, we have a bad team that needs a quarterback. Yes, you have the first overall pick, but there's a lot of things going on there right now. This is one those things where I guarantee ownership, it's like we got a new stadium going up, we got to get butts in the seats, we got to re-energize

something. I mean, trust me, that came in a play with this decision. So with this number one pick, let's really figure this out. And they said, well, we don't trust Rand with the number one pick because he drafted Will Levis and push for him. Right? And how'd that work out? Well, again, this is... It's never

one, and we all know this. It's never one person. No. Just pushing for it comes out conveniently this time of year. But it has never just one person pushing for the one quarterback. We're going to talk about him later in the show. The Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud situation. It was never just one person who was like this,

regardless of anyone else, like this is what. There were multiple reviews, multiple perspectives. They did have a brutal free agency period. They did. The trade for Ligia Sneed. It just made a lot of the stuff and you would ask anyone, like what is their plan? Ligeria Sneed, you know, Ridley,

going out to get Tony Pollard. Some of them worked, but it was not a good passion. They spent a lot of money. They spent a lot of money to build a roster, not a team. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of organizations like that. They've got a nice roster, but not a good team. And I wonder if they thought that they had a quarterback. Like, I wonder if they maybe thought that Will Levis would be a little bit better.

100% they did. Because of the way that he ended the season last year. So in their minds, maybe they were kind of moving forward and would have places for all these guys. And it would be a more cohesive unit. I always find it interesting when teams don't just do a clean sweep of the head coach and the GM, bring them in together, make sure they get along, make sure everyone is just like cool, vibe and all right, because then there's just always some residual weirdness, and you never know who, it's such an incestual league, incestuous league.

So it's like, you never know who has beef with who. Yeah, and it's, they're looking at outliers when they think that they're going to be, this is like goes back to you never want to be two things. You never want to not know who you are and you never want to be the team that goes, I can fix him or I can make him better. Oh, my God, yeah. I can be an outlier. And they're looking at these outliers, for example,

the Lesneed Sean McVeigh partnership. They did not come in together to that team. Lesneed was already there and was a part of the hiring committee for Sean McVeigh. They look at these successful outliers that are not the mean throughout this league. Correct. And they think, we're going to be that team. We can do that. Or they don't even really look at it at all.

And they're just making it up as they go along. Kind of like quarterback audience. There is this assumption. that executives have this plan when they're just freestyling. And football is not necessarily their business. Maybe they made their money in a smart way,

in a different business and don't know this business. Or more likely, their parents made money and then got into football, which they didn't necessarily know either, and then they inherited it. And it's like, why do we expect, like, greatness out of that?

It's, you know, look, let's go to Jacksonville. Shot Khan, who made his own money, right? He's one of the great true American stories of working with pulling yourself up from the bootstraps, right? He keeps Trent Balke, who is hired? Jim Tom Sula in San Francisco. Chip Kelly in San Francisco. Urban Meyer, Doug Peterson.

Now this dude is on his third coaching hire situation in five years with the Jacksonville Jaguars. Why would Ben Johnson want to go there? Unless he can say, you know what, if I'm coming, I'm bringing Ray Agnew or John Dorsey from Detroit. Yeah. Like Detroit's got the best personnel staff in the NFL, right? Why wouldn't Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson go to some place where they can somehow get these guys in the building?

That would make sense. I just, I don't understand the Trent Balkey situation because before Doug Peterson was hired, it was like they couldn't find anyone that was interested in even taking the job because nobody wanted to work with Trent Balke it sounded like. I think he gave it away in his press conference. I went back and I listened to his Zoom press conference. I think he gave it away because Shad said, and I'm paraphrasing, something to the effect of we've got 85 other people that we've built this through.

What he's actually saying, and I know that quote was parsed and reparsed and all of that on various shows. But what he's really saying is we've built an alphabet and then we've started to build books out of the alphabet of what our scouting and pro personnel department is and all of the support staff and all of the language of this ecosystem, that's in place, and he doesn't want to start over. Right or wrong. And I think he's wrong in keeping him, but right or wrong, that to me is what he's saying.

He does not want to start from Ground Zero again after the entire ecosystem of that team behind the scenes. Everything but the on-field product, he believes, is in place because of all of the little layers that go into actually building a franchise in terms of the league cycle of what... Shortcuts are not going to get you. But at the same time,

a general manager is not going to come in and completely blow up your ecosystem and lets it to build Belichick. You have to, like, dismantle it, though. You're going to put in your own system. You're going to put your own language. And even the scouting, like even the scouting system and the scouting.

Sure, but you could easily remove Trent Balky and it'd be fine. But not if Trent Balky is in the ear of the owner explaining that everything's going to fall apart and they're going to have to change everything. I'm not saying they should have kept him. I'm just saying that, to me, that is what he seems to believe. Exactly what you just said, great.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying. But again, this is why I think the Giants held on a Joe Shane. Because everyone says Brian Dayball is a good coach, but if we split them up, then what GM is going to want to come here or vice versa? That makes sense. I actually think keeping them both was better than split. I applaud that.

I agree. But here's like Chicago. Everyone says that's the best situation to go to, but they're keeping Ryan Poles as a general manager. Said that last year too for Caleb. Right. But they're saying, you know, again, why would you necessarily want to go there? When it's clear that Ryan Poles and Kevin Warren, the team president, have a very strong relationship. Why would Ben Johnson

want to go there? Yeah, go there for the quarterback, but don't you want to go there with someone who you know who has your back? Again, with a Ray Agnew with a John Dorsey, someone on that personnel staff in Detroit. Especially as a first time head coach. Yes. But I think it's possible. You hear things about Ben Johnson and what he's interested in, like, kind of how

his workflow goes and all of that. I think it is possible. You do have the unique candidate who perhaps is less interested in having full control over the entire system and more so controlling that particular element of it and being the mad scientist and kind of cooking in that way. Well, he interviewed with the Patriots. Go give it to the, go get it done, Patriots. Surprise everyone. Don't go back to the old. He might be the backup if Rable ends up in Vegas. Don't go back to the old stuff. They also interviewed

Pep Hamilton, who was a quarterback coach of Joe Milton, was also here at NFL Network as a head coach. You hate to think it, but that feels like he's just, wasting his time there. A sham interview. Because Byron left. They did two of them one day. Byron left, which is well.

And just for those who don't know, if you interview two minority candidates from outside of the organization, you meet all criteria for the Rooney Rule. I guarantee Mike Vrable will be in there by the end of the week. Now, they could be candidates. Not even caring about objects either.

And to follow up, real interviews take longer than half a day. And they could be candidates potentially for the offensive staff. Maybe they're trying to do some work there. Who really knows? Who could say. We have a new opening.

and I don't think we're all totally done here. I think there are situations around the league. Like we don't know about Dallas. Yeah, we're never done right. I've got my eye on New Orleans where locally they're assuming that Mickey Loomis is going to be hiring this head coach. And I just keep an eye on that. What do you know?

I don't know anything, but I'm just saying. That's what people who know something. Based on the fact, all I need to know is that they fired the head coach against Mickey Loomis' wishes and then he released a statement essentially announcing it was against his wishes and I know he's been there a long time but maybe you can move him along

to co-executive vice president of Benson Enterprises but it has nothing to do with making football decisions with the Saints. We'll see. It's a very parochial organization. It really, really is because they run the Pelicans as well.

Right. You can give him a promotion. You can give him more money but not involved No, he's very involved. We'll see. Is he in basketball? Let's take a quick break.

We've got to get to Keeby Island, but that was a great conversation between three really smart people and myself. Back on quarterback Island in a minute. I was about to crush you. As soon as you stopped talking. She was so wretched. Hey, this is Matt Jones.

I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.

And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning

rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft. analyze matchups and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction,

and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant

And I'm Michael Florio And together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast Your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Twelve of the NFL's finest quarterbacks have left the comfort of their stadiums and luxury suites for the adventure of a lifetime. These gridiron heroes are used to leading their teams on the field, but can they outplay, outlast, and outthrow each other in the ultimate survival challenge?

You leave everything you have with the guy beside you. We find a way to win the game no matter what. Let's go, baby. The stakes are high and the competition is fierce. Only one can claim the title of the ultimate survivor. Who will rise to the top and who will be sacked? They wrote me off. I ain't right back, though.

That's the problem. I ain't right back. Let's go. This is quarterback Island. Oh, will they be writing back to Gino today? We'll have to find out one of the big questions. We are going to answer on the season finale of QB Island And thanks, as always, to the great pipes of Randy Chavez, who is now producing podcasts over at Sinclair, I believe.

And not doing voiceover work probably too. He should be. Yeah. He sounds so good. I remember the first day I heard that intro. And my, I don't think I've had, like, that much joy. Oh, no. I mean, no, it was a lot of joy.

It's fine. I'm fine. You do need to give Jordan a hug. It turns out. It was just a lot of joy. got stuck behind the couch this week. Oh, yeah. So he doesn't know how to back up.

Oh, no. Oh, he has to try to turn. Stop. So he turned around. He got to like a little half croissant and he got stuck. That's got to be better even than the ran. You know, I texted Greg up play by play. I was like, you'll not believe what's happening in my house right now.

Every time I think of this story and your dog, I'm going to think of something going beep, beep, beep. I know. That's what I was thinking of. I was trying to pack up like all poor guy. I will never know the joy. All right. QB Island.

If you haven't listened all season Oh, it's going to happen We started inches away from my face In training camp And we voted on 12 quarterbacks Who would represent the position right now Who's the best? Who symbolically means the most?

We started the season And we voted Quarterbacks off and onto the island Throughout the course of the season Last time around We lowered the number to 10 Who did? I did.

Yes, you did. The committee did before the show, the executive producing committee. Jordan's involved, not in that particular decision. But 10 quarterbacks remained at the end of last quarterback island. And 10 will remain into the office. 10 is a nice. You have a solid rule. Did you put an asterisk?

Round number. You know why he did that. You know why he did that. Yes, you did. No. We talked about it. Jordan was involved in this one. Ten feels good.

I like it as a document. Who are the 10 quarterbacks that defined this regular season? So we are looking back, but you can choose to vote guys on and off however you want. I think it's fair to wait the end of the season more if you want, but at least how I'm operating. I'm looking at the season as a whole as the most important factor. But yes, that nebulous defining the position or who's really been it this year in terms of mattering, like, that can play a part, too.

And you know what? I even wrote it down because as a capital J journalist, it's important that we are on the record with the phrase, which 10 quarterbacks defined this regular season, quote, end quote, Greg Rosenthal. Yeah, got it. But I also, I'm saying more, I'm saying my number one thing is who is the best, ultimately. But that is part of the equation, maybe to split some hair.

I love this. I love this. Okay. So, shrink it. Okay. Last time we left 10 guys on, I'm just going to read their. names quickly. And then I'm going to suggest, I actually think we have a lot of guys that are

safe. Yes, you can watch on YouTube. We've got the graphic up. It was Joe, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, in no particular order other than alphabetical, Jaden Daniels, Sam Darnold, Jared Goff, Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Jordan Love, Patrick Mahomes, and Gino Smith. The next quarterback island, we will rank them in order of talent. That makes me, feel sweaty. Yes. Dicey right there. You know,

Jordan did come up with quarterback island. She is the originator. Salute. And then I watched it spiral out of all of my control. Part of it was you didn't want to rank guys. You just wanted to talk about them.

But ultimately, making 10, it is ranking. I like that. At least around 9 to 10. Now, we could talk about some of these guys a little bit, although we spent a lot of time

already talking coaches. I actually think there are some tears here. But I personally think seven quarterbacks are going to be on without a lot of discussion. And so I'm just going to read them

and if you guys disagree at the end of it, you can disagree with whatever you want and then we could vote if you want. I think the top four, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow,

and Patrick Mahomes have been the top four really throughout. Yes. I believe that the way Jared Goff has played all season, and the way Justin Herbert put himself on this island

halfway through the season and has finished the season make them really obvious that we're not even going to debate about it, are we? I do not have a debate point on this. And on Herbert, just such a reminder to the listeners, he was not initially on the island because he was injured. And so once he was able to be on the island, we put him on the island and he more than earned his support. Yeah, yeah.

It basically was halfway through the season. He had just come back and then he got hurt again. And so it took a little bit. their offense opened up a little bit more. But he is dealing right now. I can't wait to talk about him on the preview show tomorrow. My God, he's right there with those top guys. And so is Goff.

This is the best golf has ever played. Number seven, and I did say this in the order that I would put him. And I think just, I think safe is Jaden Daniels. I would put him like a tier below those six guys. And yet in terms of consistency, in terms of numbers, in terms of defining the position, I think he's pretty safe. Am I right or am I wrong? I think he is.

The only thing I would. potentially flag is that he's a rookie. We haven't seen a huge sample size. I know we're just going by the season, though. And I was thinking about last year with CJ Stroud, he would have absolutely been on the island. And this year not. So it's like, I don't know.

But it's just this season. He's been on the island. Oh, I know. I know. CJ lasted half the year. I just have trust issues here. Or you're an NFCE fan who didn't really talk about after this show,

probably. I know. No, I agree because he stays of the rookie class too. He also defines the rookie class, which was punctuated by a lot of really talented rookies, including the emergence of Bowenicks here in the second half of the season. I think that Jaden Daniels is the face of this rookie class of quarterbacks, each which had a very unique and important story, but certainly between numbers, between the entire franchise, just having life to it. And like, he was like a human

like saging the place, you know, like he just, he was brilliant for them. That was an organization that got out of its systemic problems. It was a full clean-out of everything and everyone. And now look at what they have done. You know what that reminds me of? That Cliff Kingsbury had, according to the people in Las Vegas, in agreement with the Raiders,

at least a verbal one, to be their offensive coordinator. And he bailed to go to Washington. It would not have gone as well as that. What a good move that was for him. Here's a, the J. Daniels thing as well. Okay, let's suppose he said,

let's rest a rookie and play the veteran Marcus Mariotta. Are we talking about Terry McClure in the way we're talking about him? Are we talking about Zach Urge, the way we're talking about it? Look at what this guy who's done for other people. The way he's played, the way he sees the game. Lord, I've seen what you've done for others. Correct. This is like an all-time rookie season.

Although, to be fair to Cliff, I was running these numbers I was talking about of like looking at all the stats. And I at first sorted by at least 50 dropbacks. Do you know who leads the NFL in completion percentage? EPA per dropback, completion percentage, over-expected and success rate among all quarterbacks in the NFL with at least 50 dropbacks.

No, but it's on his team. Marcus Mariotta, who's had exactly 50 dropbacks. I was like, what is he at 51? How do I put the no-up? I'm just saying, I'm not putting him on the list, but let's give Marcus Mario-a some credit. We love Marcus. For playing three good quarters or whatever it was.

Oh, my God. He really did. I was just like, I was shocked. And I was like, okay, I need to make this like 250 jumpbacks. You need to get a hobby, man. this is too intense if you're going deep to exactly 50 attempts to justify your metric i just that's where i started and i was like this is funny when the last time you played tennis right i played with john gonzalez no way when on new year's day morning we started off the year healthy

there you go okay yeah we were in plia vista fair fine i'll allow it it was nice by the way the real answer to most of those statistics is joe burrow so yes i mean if you if you if you're you raise it up. Jayton Daniels is right near the top of a lot of those. Okay, so we got seven. There were three more guys on the list that I didn't name. Jordan Love, Gino Smith, Sam Darnel. I think one way we could start this is talk about those guys and potentially vote them or

on or hold it if you guys wanted to. We could always put them back on if in the end we think they are worthy. Do you want to get going? I'm actually, I'm going to throw out someone first that I think it's going to be the easiest. I'm just, I don't care. All right. I actually think this won't be that hard. I don't, I want to hear what you think, Colleen, about Jordan Love.

Okay. I think that he should be off the island. He was one of the guys that I outlined here. I had two guys that I wanted off the island. I have three guys that I wanted in. So math doesn't really math there. But I just feel like with him, he doesn't, I feel like there are guys that have more of a case to be on the island than he does.

guys like I mean Jalen Hertz is not on this island are like what are we doing here yeah I know Matthew Stafford is like a bit of a I ripped him off situation on this show we'll get to all that but just just talking whether we want to vote love off yes you think he doesn't have as good a case yeah yeah so if I think his ceiling is among the highest of all or most of the quarterbacks that we're about to put on the island that's his ceiling I think his floor can be a bit lower and it's certainly has showed, and it's plummeted some of his more advanced metrics. He's 13th in total EPA, true, but he's also 37th in EPA per dropback, which would, if taken by itself, which we never do, but if that was taken by itself,

would not even have him in the qualifying conversation. 25 touchdowns, 11 interceptions, again, not terrible, but if you look at, say, for example, at Jared Goff, who's thrown 12 interceptions. He's also thrown 37 touchdowns. And yes, Jordan Love missed some time. So we have to keep that included in the conversation. But in my opinion, while his ceiling is astoundingly high and in fact higher than a lot of these guys

that we're talking about on the island today, I do think he has some floors this year that have heard his case. You know, let's think how he ended the season. He didn't make it through the game. He didn't play well against the Vikings. It was too little too late in that game, ultimately. I do think the end of the season, those games are more important. And so, to me, they weigh a little heavier.

And ultimately, it reminded me a guy who is great. But even when we put him on, like, I felt good about it. And he played well the next game against the Lions. And yet, since then, it's just been like he's not at that top level yet. Here's why he's, to me, he's off. Okay. What are we talking about the Packers' offensive identity is right now? It's the run game.

It is Josh Jacobs in the run game. That's it. End of argument. Let's vote. I have a big no. I got a no. He gone. He gone.

Okay. Sorry, Jordan. We got one spot open. Okay. Do the Gino thing now? Why not? What do we say? I don't even want to start on the Gino.

I mean, as much as we've been like Gino, I mean, I'm, I'm teetering with Gino. Now, we could go through all the Mabies and include him on it and just decide at the very end if we want, but let's at least talk about him now. Really quick. we get there and I'm sorry I did this really quickly on my computer and forgive me I was a little distracted earlier before the show but the I didn't have the right filter on Jordan love is in fact 16th in EPA per dropback among quarterbacks qualifying with 50 plus dropbacks the season I did not

want to let Jordan look float away from the island with that low of a rating on him but still outside the top still not as good as marcus mariotta still outside the top but just wanted to fact check that real quick anyway continue Greg what are you saying about chino I'll I'll reserve the boot for even though I'm very much leaning that way. He's been erratic over the past few games, but he has delivered his O.C. Got sacked. It's never a good sign for quarterback

and quarterback island. But I'm just saying I'm going to keep him on the fence depending on the options to vote people on the island. The case for him and it's really difficult is to try to take him away from the situation that he was in to just evaluate the position.

In terms of defining the position, I think that's a ding for him this year. Yes, I agree. The team didn't make it there. I mean, also the interceptions, like their office had no identity. Like, what were they? No. And it just seems like his teams,

they just always have a ceiling. Like, it's always like nine wins. He also threw so much that he's going to be high in the volume stats. Like he's second in yards, second and touch on. Right. And high in interception. His, for what it's worth at BFF,

his turnover worthy play percentage was quite low, which would indicate, like, he was very good at turnover worthy play percentage, which would indicate, A, he's not fumbling a lot like a baker who leads the league in it, or Darnold, who's close, and then B, his interceptible balls happen to be caught

more at a higher rate. So the part of the issue, and I am 1 million percent anti-factoring wins into quarterback play. I'm against that, wins are not a quarterback stat. They're a coaching stat, but they're not a quarterback stat. However, there are only a couple of quarterbacks who did not make

the playoffs in a year in which quarterback island is defining quarterback play for the season that we are going to talk about. One of them is a no-brainer, yes, on the island in Joe Burrow. That's exactly who I was thinking about with Gino. And Gino is not in the playoffs. And that's a lot of that's not his fault. So Cioxx fans, like, I see you.

I hear you. Like, please know, I think that he's played some absolutely elite quarterback this year and over the past couple of years. But if we are talking about the end island, right, and defining the position this year, the one quarterback in terms of whether or not they're in the playoffs that she would then comp him to is Joe Burrow. Yeah. And Gino Smith is not going to be a Joe Burrow where, of course, Joe Burrow doesn't have the wins to back it up. But Joe Burrow has this quality about him where he can pull everyone up around him. And his effort, the way that he plays, it's just different. It feels like

it should be game changing, even though the results were not there. But he has this like it factor that I don't think Gino has. No question. They're in different tiers. I don't get... If we're going to get into wins, though, to me, that's an argument of, like, a Sam Darnold who racks up 14 over Gino.

It's not an argument of that Baker Mayfield's in a... Right. And I'm on the fence with Baker and Sam. I'm not on the fence with Baker. Baker's team won 10 games and had one of the easiest schedules in the league. So to me, he gets no extra credit over Gino that they won this, to me, for me, personally, that he won the same amount of games as Gino.

I'm comparing you to a debate. No, I know. I'm just saying like if I kind of am because to me those two might be my last spot, like trying to decide between the other 10-win quarterback we're going to talk about later that we haven't mentioned. Yeah, who would that be? Oh, I will get there. Okay. Let me make the case because I'm the one that obviously is going to have to make it here.

For Gino. In pure dropbacks. And so that's taking away RPO's play action passes in screens. second in the entire NFL in success rate. When pressured, third in the entire NFL when pressured. Top five in completion percentage over expected. Obviously very high in the counting stats like yards and touchdowns and completion percentage in general.

Top 10 in the league when blitzed. So those are stats that people in the league like to run because it tries to remove some of the situation around them. Some more stats. And they can be paired. with the value and ability of your receivers, which is the argument that people made last year about Brock

Purdy, when he was really high in success rate in some of those numbers, those are not just the quarterback in a vacuum. No question. And it's weird because the difference between him and Purdy is like, the Seahawks offense wasn't good. It was below average offense. One of the reasons why 31st in the league in starting field

position, 26th in pass block win rate, one of the worst running teams in the league, almost never used play actions and one of the worst screen teams in the league. And so he sort of was on an island. And that's just the case for it, that he's that high, first, second, third in success rate in these categories where you take it out. And so that's my case. And I'll shut up for that. And so the listeners have the full context of his advanced metrics. Yes. Also rank, finish the season ranking 28th in total EPA

and 25th in EPA per dropback. And again, you can correlate some of that with the absolute crater of an offensive system and scheme that that team was and a crater of an offensive line. Now, I am not holding that stuff against Gino in the two times that I saw him play live this year and then watch his tape every week. And then two times I saw him play live, I thought he was outstanding. My favorite play of the year for him was when his pocket was collapsing last week. And he did a spin move to avoid two interior defensive linemen who were about to bring him down and then stepped through the pocket and then completed the past downfield. I think he is outstanding.

I am a big Gino Smith fan. If we're talking about quarterback island in the context of defining the position this year, then I'm really on the fence with him and it'll really have to depend on how other guys shake out. Okay, I was ready to just give up the ghost and then... Well, you know what? You know what's interesting like is I'm not willing to let my biases

over how the last episode unfold it... Oh, that's very... Nice of you. Or, you know, my bias isn't... He would be getting discussed here today anyway. There's a lot of baggage here, I think. Some things happen, Colleen. Some things happen.

We're taking it easy. It's funny, though, because he is such an interesting case that obviously they ultimately were a little disappointed. And yeah, that game last week, even though it was against the backup, it just reminded me of like, my God, it's just pure quarterbacking level. Do I ultimately believe he's in the top 10 right now? He is on the edge. It's close. But I am leaning, yes, ultimately, for a lot of those stats. Let's talk about the other guys.

Let's talk about Darnold right now. Because I think going into last week, it would have been safe to say, Colleen. He might have got mentioned in that little top of the show with the first seven. He had one of the worst games. I don't think this is an opinion that any good quarterback had all season in week 18 in the biggest moment. That's fair. He had one of the, maybe the worst week any quarterback had in the entire league last week for that to happen. on Sunday night football

and happened in a similar way to ways he's lost before where it just seemed like he froze on some level. Got the yips. And could not. He was so off with some of those throws. And mentally kind of couldn't get through it, couldn't get over it,

he got stuck. It's a tough last, last final statement for QB Island and puts him on the edge at least for me and because of that performance. But also it's one, one game. It was the one game. It was.

We're talking about the final position in season long deal. It's a huge, I mean, that was a playoff game. That was essentially like a play in game it felt like. But for Sam Darnold, I mean, you don't look at the resume for all of the other games of the season, how he performed. He was great in almost every single one, I would say. And then this game, it was bad. This was like a little bit of the old Sam Darnold. It was the trap door.

We've been waiting for all season that he didn't step on. He kind of did with the Jacksonville game, but his defense. His defense bailed him, but his defense bailed in this game. They got him two picks deep in lines territory, and that's when he floundered. They had to kick field goals, and that's why it's like, is he going to do this in the playoffs, right? We've got that question.

But if we're talking about the island, comparing him to guys like Gino, like no, Sam Darnold is on this island. I think he's got a nice place there on a nice palm tree hanging out near Joey B. What do you think? Jordan's not, I'm on the fence with Sam. Because, like, for most of the season,

his floor was so high, right? Which I know, it's like, I might as well put it tattooed it across my forehead at this point. The entire point was to raise Sam Darnold's floor and that happened. And then it even lifted his ceiling even higher. I do think that, like, if we're going to go over his resume for the entire season, I've seen a quarterback who had earned his place, at least for the first, like the middle section of shows that we did before we pulled him had earned his place. Let's not forget, we did pull him. Yeah.

Because he had that two-week stretch right before we did one where he really was struck. Which is why the argument for quarterback wins has been discussed previously. We see where you're going. But also, some of that pulling him off the island happened in a very less than I do. It doesn't matter now. In accordance to the show rules. He's on the island coming into week 15 when we lasted it. And actually was playing great.

Playing great. The couple weeks before this game. To Colleen's point, it really was one game, but it is, it was a big game and it was bad enough that then you start looking at the rest of it. Because the rest of the statistical profile in terms of grades and turnover worthy play percentage and fumbles and all that, it is kind of on the border. Him Baker and Gino actually end up in the same area in a lot of things when you just take away even the subjectivity.

The red zone passing from Sam, when you need him to be clutch, right? when you need him to define the position and define, really embody all of the things that he's overcome and embody that player who Kevin O'Connell believes he is and has poured that belief in him all season. And that was like what the third worst red zone passing performance of the season

by any quarterback. And I mean, it just, it's tough. It anchors him down where his floor has not sunk him all season, in my opinion. But it anchors him down a little bit, but I'm not willing to overlook the full body. Yeah, and especially, Because I was saying, for me personally, I'm just, just talking for myself, what I'm saying, it's a document for the season. That's a, that's a point in his favor.

Yeah. He's defined. Are we going to vote? Dude, should we hold off now? Why? I'd like to hold off because I want to talk about Baker Mayfield. Let's take a quick break and we're going to come back and we're going to talk about Baker and maybe a little Matthew Stafford. Maybe little Bryce Young. Who knows? Well, at least talk about it and just bring them up before we make our final vote. of the season. Hey, this Matt Jones. And this is NFL cover zero.

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Back on QB Island. It's my mood. We're making a list. We checked it twice during the break. Like five times maybe. I don't know. Seven members of QB Island right now. Three spots somewhat open.

But Gino and Darnold remain on the island. We have not voted for it. But one is just wide open out there. So I thought I would use this point in the show to ask, does anyone want to full-throatedly nominate someone that we're going to vote on to join the final QB Island of the season? Whoever says the name first, we'll talk about him.

Come on. I know you have one. Bo Nix. Oh! No one's thinking about Bo. We talk about defining the position. Look at the team he started off with. oh defense defense look what he's done with them he's elevated courtland sudden he's elevated his tight ends he's elevated his Denver Broncos they are in the playoffs seven games with a hundred plus pass rate including the final three 29 touchdown 12 interceptions 3,700 plus passing yards a bunch of rushing yards elevate we're talking about floors we talk about ceilings talking about making people better who was thinking about the Denver Broncos

as a playoff team before the season. No one. I am not capturing this in a moment. Not even the Denver Broncos. No. Sean Payton probably wasn't. This dude, when we're talking about some of these other players, if we do

not talk about Bowen-Nicks in this conversation, we would be making a mistake. Now, do you put him over? There's no Jalen Hertz in here. Okay, we'll talk him next then. He's next in line. I will say this because you're right.

Yeah. About all of this, Steve. at the same time I don't know that I feel great about putting more than one rookie on quarterback island. I would if he had earned it, but I don't think Bo Nix has earned it. I would, I welcome differing opinions even when they're wrong, like this

Bo Nix one, because it's like a participation trophy. What are you talking about? It's a participation trophy. He's playing great, and he gets to be mentioned, and if I... Is Gino taking the Broncos to the player? If I squeeze... They had the same amount of wins. Actually, how many wins is this? the Broncos. Oh, that's a participation argument right there. Wait. Okay. If you're arguing that he's

playing quarterback at a higher level, that's where I'm just going to disagree. I can, we can use whatever metrics. Whatever criteria we want. But I think when you are looking at elevation, you are looking at a system that has elevated Bow Nix. And that's what good coaching does. And he's been great as a rookie. But when I watch him on a week to week basis, I don't see him elevating the players around him. I think the last few weeks of the season really pointed that out. The Chargers game where for a half, he's struggling. The Colts game where he struggled for the whole game.

The Bengals game, I think, was a very typical game for him, where it's a couple big-time throws at him not coming through ultimately. 6.7 yards per 10. He has been amazing to be a league average quarterback, but that's where I would put him. I think it's cool that we're talking about him, and it makes sense. But I don't think he gets that close to the top 10. If you put him on the Seahawks, are they, are they any better or worse?

They're worse, for sure. I think, I think that where he should get a bump in Steve's argument. I think they're like five and 12. I think where he should get a bump in Steve's argument and a bump in his favor is he is really playing over the entirety of the year, not just pieces of it, but over the entirety of the year and including his ascension and improvement, you know, you could put him in the argument as the second best rookie quarterback this season. I agree. And that's where I think he gets a bump because for a rookie, first of all, to deal with Sean Payton as a rookie. I mean, we saw it early in the season.

He was like giving him. He was sassy with him too. He was like, he was the right person for that head coach, I think. And you can see when it works, it really, really works. And I think to accomplish and ascend and, and play the way that he has where you can see improvement over time, I think that that gives him a point in, in your favor. Absolutely. But just on a throw to throw basis, he is not being asked to do what these other quarterbacks are being asked to do. And his next big win.

in the NFL will be his first one. Give me the quality win that the Broncos had. To me, they do not define the season that they won 10 games against losing teams and the Chiefs backups. He had his chance in overtime to end the Bengal season and he missed two wide open throws.

He had a chance to make the playoffs. How did they get to overtime? He made the playoff. He absolutely changed the ceiling of this team. I mean, a rookie quarterback coming in, the expectations are so low. He's hugging his cards for those not. watching. He's been great, but top 10 is too far for me. Ultimately, I want to have that

because I think that's a good one. I lean on quarterback excellence and like to me a Jalen Hertz would would be ahead of him. A baker would be ahead of him. A stafford. All those guys would be ahead. So that's to me not. Even Kyler, that one's close. I think O wins over that argument over Kyler. Okay. So if we took off the three like you're saying. Well, I, I can't. Okay. Then in your, And that's why we can vote. And you could vote a yes and try to get them through. But I'm about to know we are officially voting. Colleen, Wolf?

No. Steve Weish is a yes. I'm not using a riptide on Boenix. And for new listeners. That's exactly what somebody who is about to do. Not doing it. The riptide, you can. I don't know that I want you explaining this.

I'll explain this. Yeah, because you misused it last time. It is called the riptide as in a dangerous wave that washes you away. from quarterback island. And the riptide can be used one time all season by one per, you can only use it once. And it is to literally take off a quarterback of your choosing with no argument

at the end of the vote. And then you have to rediscuss anyone who didn't make it on that you would put on instead. So you pull him out to sea. Yes. And unfortunately, no one's used it on. I used it the wrong way.

The complete opposite. No one really knew. The complete opposite way in which it was intended. It's a rip court. It's a good lesson for all the kids out there. It's a rip-off. That people in charge,

they're just making it up as they go along. Let's talk, let's talk Jalen Hertz, your guy. Jalen Hertz, I mean, yes, he has a concussion right now. And I don't know what these, like, the changing of the goalpost here with the rules. I don't know if he's even allowed to come on to quarterback Island. I feel like I was, was I gone when he was voted off quarterback island? Or had he not made it on to quarterback island?

He amazingly has not been a quarterback guy. That's crazy. That is disrespectful. Like he has a top five passer rating. The way that he can, I mean, yes, the touch push definitely, you know, adds in pads some numbers for him. But top five and rushing touchdowns too. He's had a really good season. And of course, he's surrounded by so much talent. But he's a really talented quarterback. And when you look at the names on here, I would argue that he is absolutely in the top 10. If not, maybe the top eight. If we talk about the Eagles offense, who do we talk first? Saquan. He's flashy, though. And who do we talk next? I would talk AJ Brown next because to me, AJ Brown, if I'm doing an all pro and it's three receivers, I'm actually putting A.J. Brown on my top three. But Jaylen Ernst is putting it right where A.J. Brown can only catch it?

That's tough. That was a low shot. But what I'm saying is, if you're talking to. That's Tanner McKee. Oh, my God. I'm leaving. But what I'm saying is, is, again, I love Jalen.

But when we're talking about the Eagles offense and defining the position is Jalen the first guy who comes to mind. I think Jalen had some ups and downs in his overall level. And I am holding the original rule of the injury just the past three games in protocol. It's so tough to say that

because Sequin Barkley is such a unique player in this entire league. If you talked about the entire division, you would talk about Jaden Daniels, you would talk about Seekwon. But that's the exact reason why Matthew Stafford has still being debated about as a potential Hall of Famer because he had Megatron.

He had such a unique player to get the ball to. And it, unfortunately, it's a beautiful thing to watch, but it knocks the quarterback. Well, we haven't talked about it enough on this show because it hasn't really been germane, but Jalen Hertz's rushing value has helped Sequin Barkley quite a bit

and helps his case. Also... He is one of the most valuable runners in the league, not just because of the tush push, because he is efficient. When he runs, he gets first down at an incredibly high rate. and that's a value that Gino isn't giving as much that Baker Mayfield isn't giving as much although he's giving a lot

He's certainly they're giving more than darnal When we're comparing it to guys in this area His rushing value is good for me I just if he had stayed healthy I think he was passing the ball Among the best in the league right around the middle of the season as well We talked about it on this show And that was it's unfortunate

Like the rule we established The Herbert rule that we established the beginning of the season Was that if you're hurt you cannot be on the island. And that was the Jordan Love situation as well early on in the year. And that was the Justin Herbert situation. So, but I do see if he passed concussion protocol.

Okay. Here's the thing, though. I think he needed to finish strong. And he does take a lot of sacks. He'd have a higher sack percentage than almost anyone on this list. And that's really important. Those are big time negative plays other than Baker, Darnold's in that mix.

But Hertz is even a, Hertz only attempted 361 passes. Yeah. That's like it's like 1940. That's Brock Purdyish. You know, it's like, really is. Well, he's not calling the plays. I get it, but that matters to me.

I'm going to vote more. I'm voting no. I'm voting. Although I like it. I know where I stand with this. If he were healthy, if he were healthy, I'd probably have him on. But he's missed three games. He would have been borderline and had a good chance if he was healthy.

And justice for Jaylen. On that point, in terms of finishing the season strong versus not finishing the season strong, let's talk about mother effing Bryce Young. Okay. Yes. Because. And Craig, I know how much you early on in quarterback. like to use PFF in your arguments.

He is the sixth highest passing grade quarterback since week eight, according to PFF. That was when he came back from his benching. He has 100 plus passer rating in his last three games, 15 touchdowns in his last nine games, and he's playing like a top 10 quarterback or top 11 quarterback post week eight. Now, I'm not necessarily arguing for him to be on the island.

I have someone else who I would really like to put on there who we'll talk about in a minute. But I think he is one of the defining stories of this NFL season. And I love it for him. I've watched this clip a hundred million times probably over the last couple of days.

That easy go ahead throw, that touchdown pass where he didn't just give us the Steph Curry, you know, after he shoots the three and then turns his back and does the touchdown sign. He also gave us Jim Halpert face. He found the camera and look directly at the camera. I love that.

He gets no points for me on that because Lamar did it the day before. I just love, but I love it. Come on. You can have Lamar's confidence if you play like Lamar Jackson every single week. Ever since I came after

Steve's lovely bow necks, he just isn't the same. No, no, here's why. That was at me. Not of you. Here's why I love, you know, what Bryce has done. Because when we talk about

the last two years for him, he's got no weapons. Yet he is carving teams up. What he did in the Southland the other day, he's running. the ball, he's very decisive. Adam. Thielen's had this resurgence. You know, he has elevated other players. So I love

the fact that you're bringing Christ in this. And you know what? You know what I think is beautiful too? Like he as they said, you know, when we saw this at Alabama too, as decisive as he was as a passer, that sort of point guard mentality, distribute the ball, make the cool throws and do it from a variety of different arm angles.

He's also really decisive as a runner. A couple of those gains that he made over the last couple of weeks, you can see him looking for the increases. You can see him looking for how the play is going to unfold layer by layer and making the correct decision. He's playing with a clear mind and with confidence. And I give a lot of credit to Dave Canales and Brad Izick, who's working with him a lot in Carolina. And I just think that this is one of the defining stories. Even if we don't put him on the island, I wanted to say it. I think he is

one of the defining stories of 2024 at quarterback. Just think about the conversations that we were having when he was benched. It was, it was like, where is he going to go from here? Is he even going to land anywhere at all. Could they even get a sixth round conditional? Yeah. Like I would love to go back and actually listen

to some of the things that we talked about because now seeing what he was able to do and come back, no one saw this coming. Including the Panthers who didn't want to play him ever again. And I love.

Andy Dalton had played great. I brought this up at the time too. One of the things that's going to make the Panthers keep him is understanding and hearing that knowledge that like 15 other teams wanted to trade for him.

Like teams were, teams were calling. Teams wanted to be the, I can fix him. Like they want. wanted to be that team and they knew what he was capable of. I love it for him, especially after last year, just all the, all the love that went to C.J. Stroud and, you know, he deserved it. But Bryce Young sat there and just got crushed.

And now at least, I know. And I said coming into this season, can he have Alex Smith's trajectory? Alex Smith, one of the worst rookie quarterbacks of all time, a number one overall pick, not a ton of like physical gifts other than his speed, obviously, that just jump off the page. And then the second season, North Turner comes in there and he just stabilizes him where he's like okay and ends up having a great career. And now I'm thinking about it. And it's like, I could see Bryce Young having Alex Smith's career.

I could see it being better. I could see it being worse too. I don't know yet. But it's a real conversation now when people are saying, well, would you take Bryce or CJ Stroud now? I think that's a fair question to ask. Would you take Bryce or Trevor Lawrence right now? I want to see more, but he really did play at that high level

where I actually think I would take Bryce over Trevor Lawrence Because I've seen more at Trevor. If we were still at 12, and this is going to be Quarterback Island 2025 season entering in, if we were still at 12, I would be voting him on to the island. That'd be great. And you know what else helps?

Is when the Atlanta Falcons blitz you, only 15% after you get around. Yeah, that helps. 60% the week before. That helped. His match, he also did face a very easy schedule so that evened out some of the receivers.

But I love, he always makes the right miss. When he misses, it's in the exact right spot. And he can never. All props to that kid, man. I'm voting no. We are even talking about him to vote on yet. All props to me, though. Yeah.

It's a nice no. It's a no, but next year. Let's do Baker. I feel like Baker is the headliner we're saving right now. Let's talk Baker. Does anyone want to make the case for him? I want Baker on quarterback island. And like we could go through a bunch of his notable statistics where he's top five

quarterback in a lot of different areas. He's second in completions. Obviously, that has to do with some of the volume at which he's throwing, third in yards. other thing with volume, second and touchdowns. And fourth, however, in a much more situational and holistic metric, fourth in EPA. And I think that the thing that I see with Baker, regardless, week over, week, over week, through this entire season and an argument that we cannot make this season about some

quarterbacks is that this team took on his personality. This team took on his personality. And there's a will to win. There's a matchup savviness when you carry yourself in this way into the post-season. season where no team wants to play you because you are an amoeba. You were able to counter all kinds of different things because you had to do it earlier in the season. There's a mental toughness.

And there's like a gumption because to get Mike Evans that last pass, you're probably nine out of ten times not doing that. You're kneeling it out, right? The game was not over. Now, I don't think the Saints were going to make a play on that, but, you know, the game. Oh, they tried. The game was so pissed. They had a coverage that would have a double.

teamed them and they blew the coverage. They either let Mike Evans get it, which is my theory. Like the players were like, no, no. That dude was not loving the fact that he was a guy who was on the back Oh no. And I will say, that takes some metal. And Baker Mayfield has shown us

that all season. I think if we're talking about this being such a cool year for quarterbacks showing us what they're really made of after kind of getting tossed around in a few places and kicked to the curb in a few places, but not only that, to be that guy and then be the defining player, other than Mike Evans,

but really the defining player on this team, yes, Liam Cohen is great, but you're not talking about Sam and Kevin O'Connell, the way that you're talking about Baker Mayfield, you're talking about Kevin O'Connell, right? Liam and Baker really make a great pair together in that way because Baker is just going to go all out and just try to, I mean, he's going to try to win on a 28-yard,

he's trying to score on a 28-yard carry. I'm like this is such a scrappy team because of him and the injuries that they dealt with so many other quarterbacks and teams it would be like oh well you know they lost their guys and like had to deal with all of this adversity but it didn't matter he still got them wins and then he did all of this with a rookie quarterback or a rookie running back in bucky irving and then a new offensive coordinator and Liam Cohen so he had all of these different things and still was able to deliver that Chris Godwin injury, how emotional that was. If you don't have that it factor, that defining thing that makes a team rally around you and not sync with a situation. We see it with the Detroit

Lottes. Yeah, you lose the road. Right. I think context is fair for him on what helped him, but I think you made a beautiful argument. Oh, he was like one of the best offensive lines in football. Yeah, he wasn't pressured a lot and he handles pressure poorly in terms of taking negative plays. He has the most fumbles in the league.

He has the most fumbles plus sax plus interceptions in the league. So he takes a lot of negative plays. And he doesn't get pressured very often. And yet he takes all those sex. Those are the negatives. But everything that you said about who he is. To be fair. And adding his scrambling ability lately, that game to me on Sunday defines him because going into the fourth quarter, wasn't great. He was under four. He'll be good for an interception game. He was under four yards per attempt passing with an interception. And then it's what you said, that force of will to scramble and be patient. And he really, has gotten a lot better being patient in the pocket

and hitting those third in longs and getting Jalen McMillan. And then the quality of the throws. I mean, he has the big time throws that you want to see out of a guy on quarterback islands. Well, one of the things that I love about quarterbacks cover this league for a long time is going, I'm going to use an NBA analogy that Jerry West told me about

15 years ago. Ooh, flex. Love it. Right. 98% of the NBA can get you 25 points per game, right? But there's only 10 guys who can get you six in the final two minutes. and there's only one or two who can get you six in the final minute.

Baker's one of them dudes, he's got the killer in him, right? He's got the Joe Burrow in him. You know who else has it is Jaden Daniels? Jaden Daniels got that killer in him. Yes. Right? But I love the fact that Baker,

no matter what happens ahead him. That's why I like Ben Rother. You know who else has that in him? Who's that? Yeah, the leader in fourth quarter comebacks over the last few years. Are you just in Gino? Gina Smith.

This is what I was talking about that Gino doesn't have. But I'm just saying the killer. But you're, I agree. I agree. And the fact, and Colleen made the great point. Last year we were giving Baker props because of Dave Canales. Yeah.

Now's got Liam, we're Baker's the dude. He's the one, he's the common denominator. I love what Liam Cohen's done, though. They should be talking about him like Kevin O'Connor. He's going to be a head coaching job. And who came to Los Angeles when that season was sunk and the head coach was just like MIA mentally and was a sunbeam into that building in terms of what he was able to do two days after.

And yeah, he got coached up, Zach Robinson, and Liam Cohen. It's part of the reason they have good jobs where they're at now. But that's Baker Mayfield. He landed in that building and won that Thursday night football. He was not on QB Island all season long.

Was Liam on that staff? Was Liam on that staff? When Baker came? Yeah. Liam and Zach Robinson. I know what? I know. Steve Weiss.

Let's go. Yes. Yes. Yes. I am a. Yes. There we go. Florida man.

Florida man's on the island. I don't care that it was the fourth quarter of the 18th week that actually won me over. That was those two drives he had to go take the lead were maybe the two best drives I saw all season by anyone and in the biggest spot. So like, okay, I've got to, if I'm thinking about him and Darnold, for instance, yeah, you left me with that final answer. I've given it. Two last things, two last things. I've been waiting on this. Two less things I've been waiting for so long.

So Greg, to take the negative plays that he does and he does, that's fair, to take those and still rank where you. ranks in EPA, I think, is significant. They don't count, if you don't lose fumbles, they don't count it against you, which is one of his traits. He hadn't happened to lose a lot of things. Sure, but he takes a lot of negative plays regardless. And then the other thing is that throw to Jalen McMillan. Oh, my God.

After, but here's why this is Baker's got it. And we know this, right? But like, that happened after no, no person, and you can argue this until the cows come home, whatever, but no per about whether it should be a penalty or what, but no person on The planet was as mortified as Jalen McMillan hands on his helmet just distraught over incurring that celebration penalty that he did. And Baker goes right back to him and just that absolute slice of a throw. Yeah, that was brilliant.

That's the first ever throw that put someone on QB Island. That's amazing. That's why Anthony Richardson is not on. Right. The next drive was great. We haven't talked to Stafford yet. What's our math though? Okay.

Are we 10 of 10? Okay, we are to eight, eight people have officially been voted on, yes. Gino and Darnold are on from before. So we have a full island at the moment. We haven't voted officially on Gino or Darnold this time. And if we, you know, wanted to bring up someone else to replace them or vote on them, we could. I think we should at least mention Stafford. Yeah.

Who, it's funny, right after last week when we voted him off, he had his... He ripped it up. He ripped it up against the bills. He hurt. I mean, it was really fun to watch. It's like I can get back to that island. It was a delight to watch that level of quarterback.

But wait. In the three games after that, they did, they combined to score the same amount of points and kind of showed where they've been in too much of this season. Sidebar. Yes. Right after that show, where it wasn't that the Rams landed in Stafford, the Rams? Instagram site or whatever. So, yeah.

It says, Matthew listens to podcast, but his warm-up jacket had his wife's podcast on there. But my stomach, because I get notifications. So I get notifications and all I saw was the caption. I didn't see what he was wearing. He was wearing the Kelly Stafford's podcast label or whatever. Amazing. But all I saw was that it was a picture. And then it said, Matthew, QB1 listens to podcasts.

And I went, oh, God. He knows. Like, he knows about the island. And he's not on it anymore. Jordan volunteers. I will say, we had a lovely conversation. in the very next week about all of the things he does

pre-snap in order to make that offense sing even though it's not singing very lovely tunes lately. Jimmy Garoppolo played really well in week 18. Oh, don't even. Which hurts, which hurts is... I think Stafford, it's funny because I think Stafford had a...

I think he defines the position in 2024. But it's hard for me to vote him on. I don't anymore. No, no, the last air... I think he defines like the last of the old gunslinger guys. Yeah, the island needs some leadership, some veteran leadership.

everyone else is under 30, I think, on this list. Who's going to buy the booze? Maybe it's because of their schedule, but I feel like the Rams haven't been in the spotlight. And that's kind of why people haven't noticed that, yeah, the three games since, they combined to score 44 points. He had under six yards per attempt in all three of those games. He had under 200 yards passing in all three of those. And he makes great throws.

But when I think Rams offense, I don't think Matthew Stafford anymore. I think one of the most efficient wide receiver seasons of all time, Pook and Akua, and if I had to go second, I'd probably go with a very efficient running attack too. And that's okay, that happens to older. And I will say, too, like Greg, those three games, he threw, I want to say, nine near interceptions

that either bounced off someone's chest or was tipped or something. That was hard to watch because he just, he didn't look like himself. And for some parts of this season, they've needed him to be the transcendent, like gunslinger like darkly chaotic soul

snatching Matthew Stafford that got them into the Super Bowl and then won them that Super Bowl with some of the the guttiness of the throws and then at times this season he has been that and more and other times he has been far far below that and that's why it's hard for me to play so

among all the people we've talked about today him Darnold and Baker actually have the highest turnover worthy play percentage but to me they've provided more consistent highs to balance those out I'm voting no on Stafford. Yeah. Steve?

An audio medium. No, no. No. I'm voting no and you're welcome Rams fans because he's about to put up 56 now that I voted. Oh, he could. Just like he did last time. No.

You're saying that. He ain't put it up 56 on a 5th. No, no, no. Okay, Matthew Stafford will not make it. We just went down a 10-minute wormhole where Jordan did the thing that someone does in every show. Usually it's me. I'm happy it's, it's Jordan this time ago that she had realized she messed up her math.

Colleen was like, can I get out of here? What did you call it? No, the Bermuda Triangle. I said the island, yeah. It's located in the Bermuda Triangle. So we've reached the portion of the program and it's, I guess it was all, I guess it really was all leading to this where it's the 10th, the 10th spot is still open. We have not voted on Gino Smith. We have voted on Jordan Love.

if someone feels strong that the 10th person should be someone other than Gino Smith like now is the time to do it and we take the votes whether it's Jalen Hertz for you or Gino for me if there's anyone else

knowing that there is one spot left and unless we wanted to get crazy about changing the rules we are going to put 10 people on to this island I'm good with that okay so we're putting one more person on this island either way even though you know I can feel

that the room maybe isn't totally for Gino. Who, I'm going to put Gino up for vote. Well, we have to put them up for a vote. I mean, you guys have already struck down my guy. Bo Nix. Yeah, you've got to know. I do love the idea, though. I made the case.

If nothing else, he's helped to define this segment. I vote yes. Let's go one at a time to really raise. Greg really wants to soak it in. I vote no. Colleen votes no. On. Your says on.

Vote no. Steve Weiss. I'm going, Gino, yes. Oh, it's. Steve goes yes on Gino. Swing vote. That was a surprise to me. Swing vote. I thought that was going to be a no. You might have gone back to love or something.

The suspense. Jordan Rodriguez. Play some music or something. Normally we'd be like, after the break, we'll find out. Yeah. Yes. And I'll just, it's a close-up cut with me just looking very tortured. So it is interesting how even as the creator of quarterback island,

all roads lead back to Greg Rosenthal because I am voting yes. Let's go! Let's go! Let's go! Hey, Gino, $6 million richer to go on to quarterback island. And the reason, Colleen, is I set the rule. The injured players cannot be on the end. I can't go back on my own rule.

A rule is a rule, I guess, Greg. For some people. Some rules are rules. When historians go back and they look through the quarterback island initial class of 2025, Gino will be on there. Just like Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow. There's no ranking of them. he did it. He made it into the top

10 of NFL quarterbacks. Like Eli Manning did like once or twice in his career. Can we talk about the rest of the quarterbacks on the island? Are you just going to honk about Gino Smith? No, we're done talking about him for like... All I know is next season coming into the next to 2025, 26 season. I'm putting Drake May in over Gino. Okay. I'm putting Bryce on.

I'm putting Bryce on. Jalen hurts. I mean, come on now. Let's see what happens in this postseason. But he might have... If he's not on this island the entire year and ends up going really far in the playoffs... He's the only NFC quarterback. in the playoffs, not on the island. By a rule, because of the rule.

And to be fair, he wasn't on all season before that. Now, if we were really reality show producers, you got to get him and Joe Burrow on just for the handsomeness, I think. We got to keep the main thing, the main thing. Just, just, just. Well, if we're doing that, Jimmy Carapelow is, you know, victory lap. Don't even blaspheme the island.

Tune in 2025. It was fun all year. Thank you to Randy Chavez. Thank you to. Eric Roberts behind the glass. And thank you, yes, to Chris Babona, making his last name debut on NFL Daily. He noted, I always just call him Chris,

because I wanted to make sure I said Babona right. That's just a name you don't want to go. It's kind of fun to say, Babona. Babona. I'm sure your, like, classmates never made fun of you or brought that up at all. What do you point in there, Craig? Let's play some music, Eric.

Let's get out of here. We got another show. The final 10. members of quarterback island Josh Allen Joe Burrow Lamar Jackson Patrick Mahomes

Jaden Daniels Jared Gough Justin Herbert Sam Darnold our new entrant Baker Mayfield I like that and yes Gino

surprising me snuck in there you got it at the end you're nuts surprise. I am. Because when I made the list, I thought it'd get boxed out. I thought he'd get boxed out. Well, we're so happy for all of the quarterbacks who are on the island. Best of luck to everyone who's been voted off or didn't make it at all. I think this should be brought up during Hall of Fame induction arguments in 10, 15 years. That's part of like an all-decade team? Yes. How many times were you a top 10 defining quarterback in the league? It's one reason why I wouldn't

have voted for Eli Manning because it would have been like twice. But these guys earned it. Top 10 in the NFL. I'm happy. Aren't you happy to see your baby out in the wild? Quarterback Island. Let the arguments begin.

I've had a blast with quarterback island all season, even when I am psychologically manipulated by Gregor. Stop it. All right, we got to go get to. And now we'll give you that hug. We got to go to the five. fires now, unfortunately. Yeah, you were kind of delaying that rescue.

I know. When we've decided on the 10 members of quarterback Island, 2024, forever, that's when you know football is back. See you Wednesday. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game

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