NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Rams-49ers Recap and Bill Belichick’s Big Move

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Andrew Siciliano to recap the Rams and 49ers facing off on Thursday Night football. The guys start off by taking a look at the state of the NFC West (01:54), followed by a discussion about Kyren Williams (06:10), Matthew Stafford (13:00), Brock Purdy's future (17:07) and Deebo Samuel (20:47). After the break, Ollie Connolly joins the show to talk about breaking the Bill Belichick to UNC news and what the future of the program and Belichick may look like (26:13).  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Here it is. Front midfield. Pressure coming. Purdy hit. Purdy.

Shacked. Game over. Christian Roseboom clinches it. The Rams have a three-game winning screen. and they sweep San Francisco 12-6 the final. That's how you close a game, not just by Kristen Roseboom, but by our friend J.B. Long on KSP. Yes, the Rams win a game in the division without scoring a touchdown 12 to 6, a massive result for their playoff hopes, basically eliminating their rival 49ers in a rainy night in Santa Clara.

It's dry here in Los Angeles, and I've got my friend Andrew Siciliano with me. Andrew, the preseason voice on television of the L.A. Rams. So he's an expert, and I liked how they ended there. You send some pressure on a Hail Mary. Don't even let Brock Purdy throw that ball, although I was kind of wondering if Brock Purdy could even reach in the rain. We'll never find out. Rosenthal, I am touched.

I am flattered. I am honored to be back on this pod, long-time listener, first time in this current format on the pod. And I think first time back maybe in the NFL media group since the start of week one, I am honored to be here. We miss you, buddy. But look, Andrew, one of the best people in the business. And he's been busy, since the Olympics. He's, of course, now the voice of the Browns. He's got his YouTube channel.

Check out Andrew Siciliano. He's got thinking out loud on the channel. He's got the Bark Tank podcast. But we're here to talk a little Rams 49ers. And you've watched this division as closely as any because of your connection to the Rams. A different sort of NFC West game, a defensive struggle. But I do think in the second half, we kind of saw the reason why these two teams are going in separate directions. when they absolutely needed to, the Rams did figure out how to move the ball,

even if they were settling for field goals. And when they needed to, they got enough pressure on Purdy. That's kind of been the story of the Rams season, efficient, long drives when they needed to in the second half of games. And the 49ers really collapsed down the stretch. So it says 12-6, but I did feel like it was a just result, and the Rams really, really help out their playoff chances. And crazy thing is, these teams combined for 82 points in their respective games

on Sunday against the bills and against the Bears. But here, this is the only game all season, according to our buddy Tony in research, that did not include a touchdown from either team. So 12-6 is a thrilling one. Is that right? Wow. Yeah, how about that? The only game without a touchdown.

It's also the first game that a team, that a 49ers team who didn't give up a touchdown has lost since 2007. So there are not many games like this. I think the fourth quarter of those last two drives and even the delayed blitz there on the Hail Mary, which is something we saw from the Browns, actually against Russell Wilson of the Steelers on TNF.

That game, Week 12, back in Cleveland, Jordan Hicks came delayed pressure and drilled Russell Wilson on that final George Pickens, Greg Newsom, Ted toette, in the back of the end zone. The Rams were the more physical team when they needed to down the stretch. And those two long drives and that sack, that proved a point.

And I think there is, I don't want to say it's an official changing of the guard in the division because the Rams have won a super bowl. here. But the thing about the Niners forever kind of having Sean McVeigh's number, Kyle kind of having Sean's number, especially when the game was up there, is that the Niners were the more physical team with Trent Williams, with Debo, with Bosa, with whomever else they had on the offensive line and the defensive line, for that matter. They were the more physical team and they punched the Rams in the mouth. This was a bit of a reversal. Don't get me wrong.

They didn't blow them out of the building. And if a Hail Mary gets to the end zone, Mabber having a different conversation. But the Rams have now beaten. Sean McVeigh has now beaten Kyle Shanahan three in a row. And it's the first time the Rams have done that since anybody? I mean, it was in St. Louis, I would guess. Yeah, it was. It was the greatest show on turf.

Kurt, Marshall, Torrey, Isaac, Orlando. It was that team from 99 to 01. They beat the Niners six in a row. And now they have beaten them three. three in a row. So I think this was a message sent here as well. And it doesn't matter now what the Rams do against the Jets next week in New York. Honestly, it doesn't matter.

If they win the last two against the Cardinals and Seahawks, they're in. Oh, that's a good point. I was like, well, it matters a little. What if the Seahawks went out? No, you're right. The division games are all there really matters. Because then there'll be five and one in the division. Yeah.

And the Seahawks have tough games the next. two weeks against the Packers and the Vikings. If I'm a Seahawks fan, and I kind of am, but I'm also kind of a Rams fan. You're a Geno fan. You're not a Seahawks fan. It's kind of confusing here. This was the first game I got to watch at home and watch my daughter and

my wife go nuts with the clapping in the second half of this game. Very intense. They will likely be playing for the division in week 18. That's basically what this game all but guaranteed. Because Seattle, like I said, it was saying, If you're a fan of Seattle, you hope to, if you got one of those next two games against the Packers and the Vikings, you'd take that.

Like, those are two really good teams. And most likely Seattle will have a chance to win the division that night and LA will have a chance to win the division that night. And it very well could be the Sunday night football game to end the season, which would be fantastic. And this three game winning streak comes after the 49ers beat the Rams in the regular season nine straight times, which is outrageous and deserves a massive asterisk that the Rams won the most important. game these two teams have ever played in this current McVe-Shannahan iteration in the NFC championship. But I thought they were more physical. Kyron Williams, to me, gets the game ball. 29 carries 108 yards, some outstanding blitz pickups. There was that 17-play drive where they blew it with a holding call on a zone read by Matthew Stafford and they settle for the field goal.

But that helped set the tone in the second half after they couldn't do anything in the first half punting five times. And Kyron just kept getting extra yards. I kept thinking, oh, that should have been two. It was five. Oh, that should have been four. It was seven. That should have been six. It was 11. He's just carrying guys. And he is such a tough runner. They want to play play quorum. He's running well, but I think Kyron Williams is just too good. They can't get him off the field. And that was the difference to me on a night where, you know, the 49ers are down to their third running back and just couldn't get anything going consistently on offense. And know this too about really any coach, but Sean McVeigh in particular, if you're a rookie running back, pass pro is the most important thing. And it's not that Sean, and full disclosure, I have not been with the Rams since August, right? Still talk to people there, obviously. But Sean's not going to put a rookie running back on the field unless he absolutely believes in him in past pro. And I think he does. But when you see what Kyron Williams does and you know.

know that his past pro game isn't just good, it can be elite, and you're going to keep him, you're going to keep him on the field. And it also, I think, you want to talk big picture here, go back to the toughness thing. Really, the last two draft classes that Les Sneed has put together, think of all the guys that contributed tonight. Defensively, Jared Verse and Braden Fiske and Byron Young and Kobe Turner and Cam Kitchens. then offensively, Pooka and Akua and even a guy like Bo Limmer at center. Kiron's in his third year. Avila was out there and in the screen game to Puka was like half the battle and that's all

about Avula. I can't believe I forgot Avila and mentioned Bo Limmer, the rookie center from Arkansas. But you get my point is that these are not only just guys that are out there playing, they are key foundational building blocks that help you win this game. especially on the defensive side. Yeah, so Kobe Turner, they had a great stat on the broadcast from NextGen stats that he had four pressures in the first half

on every one of those four. He was double-team. I started counting the drives that he ended. There was one with a sack. There was one with a run stuff. There was one with a pressure where he got right in Purdy's face and helped force an incompletion.

And then in the second half, he killed another one with a sack. even on the interception that we're going to listen to in about 10 seconds. Kobe Turner gets the pressure right in his face. Braden Fiske was there too. Turner ends up with five pressures on the night, two sacks, but verse and Fiss both had three pressures too. So you're right, it's all about those young guys.

Let's listen to our friend J.B. again. Two to snap it for Purdy. He does beat the clock. Back to pass, drifting to his right, launches down the right numbers. This ball's in the air. This ball's paralyzed. Intercepted at the goal line. Darius Williams goes to get it right in front of Joanne Jennings.

And L.A. has the first takeaway of Thursday night football. Jimmy's so good at what he does, by the way. He's so good. He's the best. You two are my favorites to listen to every Sunday. You're too kind. Dan Miller's great. Can I put a butt?

Dan Miller at the Lions is amazing. Fun fact, when I was an intern at Sports Radio 5.6. 70, not 980, then it was 570 WTOM back in Washington. Dan Miller was the, we could say Redskins, Redskins beat reporter back then. Dan Miller, believe it or not. And Steve Colby, who is the board op, was later the voice of the capitals. It's a whole other book to be written. It's the place where legends are born back there.

I don't know. That play, that interception came with 514 left. It was a 9-6 game. The 49ers were close to 4. goal range. Yeah, they marched out of the field and it was fantastic. Can I go back real quick, put a button on that, Braden Fiske and Jared Verst thing? So, because I have Brown's chiefs this week, obviously. So doing my research this afternoon for that one, Chris Jones, Miles Garrett, two great defensive pieces here. Clearly, Miles Garrett is now half a sack away from 100.

His 29th birthday is going to be, I think it's December 29th. So he'd be like the first guy with 100 before he turns 29, something like that. Anyway, here's the first guy. the list most pressures, most quarter act pressures this season. This was before tonight's game. Trey Hendrickson number one, 65. Jonathan Grenard, number two, 60. Chris Jones, number three, 59. Tied with Chris Jones, rookie Jared verse with 59. And then Miles Garrett, 58. That's your top five. And you saw it tonight, like that one pressure he had that helped kill a drive. It's not always about getting the sack or getting the quarterback hit, especially when they're working well as a team.

And you saw it, you said on the last play. They all work really well as a group. And the whole idea that him and Fisk would work well as a tandem, so maybe let's draft them together. It's working. Like they play literal games all the time together, and it's really effective. And it's helped the Rams win different sorts of ways.

It's not a great defense every single week, but some weeks the pass rush has carried them. And that's something that you weren't expecting going into the season. No. Not at all. And conversely, there have been plenty of games this year with the secondaries let them down. And, you know, starting with Tredavius White, now he's in Baltimore. You go back and you watch when these two teams first met Rams Niders earlier in the year, Tadavius White was obviously on the field. Rams still have, I think, an issue at corner that they have to address. But you go out, you get Cam Curl. Cam Kitchen started slowly, but has certainly come on and at his moments this year as well. another guy I mentioned before in this year's draft class. Their defense overall, their numbers aren't good, but they've been good enough in the moments they need them to make a run like they did last year, what, 7 and 1, 7.

What, it's 7 and 2 after the buy, whatever it is? I can count four games this year where their defense kind of carried them for most of the game and just waited for the offense to do something, the Raiders game, the Saints game, this game, and having a handful of those games, it's just not something that happened in previous iterations. And they needed to because the first half of this game was a disaster.

It was raining buckets. But even before it was, Stafford nearly through an interception on, I think it was his first throw, certainly the first drive. They go four, they go three and out. Stafford couldn't have picked off three times in the first quarter. Right. So they got lucky in the first half.

Stafford goes four for 12 for 33 yards. the first quarter was the first time in Sean McVey's era. I was listening to J.B. on the call that they didn't have a first down. Like they punted four three times. So again, it was the defense keeping the minute and waiting. But the second half, unlike the 49ers, Stafford gets it going 12 for 15 for 127, makes all the right decisions. They were aggressive on that final drive, throwing the ball to pick up the first downs.

They needed a great four-minute drive, which got them a field goal and basically gave the 49ers. any time. And on the flip side, Purdy was kind of a mess the whole game and giving you a little bit of flashback so that Packers game last year where he struggled in the rain and he said it affected him. And it felt like it affected him

tonight. And he wasn't any better in the second half. He missed not just on that interception, which to me was more of a bad decision, but he just missed throws and you wonder if it was the moisture or what it was. But it's kind of continued a very up and down season. Purdy's had incredible games. I thought he played amazingly.

last week. And then he has a night like tonight. And he's had a few too many of those. You wonder as well if Debo hadn't dropped that ball on the slant in the first half, you know, Purdy put it on him. Does that change the momentum? Does that change Purdy? I don't think one play necessarily makes you a more accurate quarterback in the second half. If all of a sudden someone catches the ball in the first half of these things spiral out of control. Rosenthal, I'm looking down here because I'm looking at my Niners' Twitter. We have a developing situation in Santa Clara, joking aside. Kyle Shanahan says Devondre Campbell refused to go in the game when asked in the third quarter and says he doesn't want to talk about it anymore.

I got my TV on up here. I got the Prime Post came on right now. They have images of Devondre Campbell walking to the locker room during the game with a towel over his head. I was making dinner. I might have missed that. But Kyle says he refused to go in the game. We'll deal with it later. Chavari, Chavarrius Ward asked about it.

He said he's probably getting cut. Yeah. No kidding. I was got to say, well, this is a rare case while it's happening live. I can tell you how it ends. He's either, he's not going to take another snap for the 49ers ever again. He wasn't playing well when he was on the field anyways this season. And he will either be suspended or cut, but he's not going to hit the field.

The reason why they-Jon Johnson kind of thing. They suspended him in Baltimore. Right. But they, I don't know if they're going to cut him. Campbell's towards the end of his career. This is the end of the season. And the reason he was being asked to go on the field, I would guess, is because Drey Greenlaw could not make it through this game.

And to me, that was so important, not just to this game, but so symbolic of their season, a heart and soul of this defense. And they look different with him on the field. Man, Kyron Williams, you don't see him get pushed back too often. He's such a tough runner. Greenlaw hit him backwards a few times. He had eight tackles in the first half of that game. game, he made a big difference. Suddenly, you saw the vision.

Him and Mustafa and who fungos, who's now healthy and Warner, like, that's a group that hits that, that is tough, that's coming downhill. And when he wasn't in the game in the second half, and I don't think he played a snap after halftime, we're still waiting word. What happened there? They just weren't the same defense. So that is a big, big part of the 49er story this season, even though it's a bit of the Super Bowl hangover and purdy, the discussion is going to continue. Like, they have just been ravaged with injuries. And every time they feel like they get a good bit of news like McCaffrey or Greenlock comes back, like then he gets hurt again.

So I thought that was a big moment in this game. The quote from Kyle, he said he didn't want to play today about Devontry Campbell. Okay. So they got to figure out that out. The Purdy thing to me is fascinating because, listen, we know his contract is a thing this offseason. I am on team Brock Purdy.

I'm not going to let an up and down season in which you don't have Trent Williams for extended periods of time in which you have Christian McCaffrey for a month and he wasn't the Christian McCaffrey that he was a year ago not even close

with all the other injuries on the defensive side that affects you on the offensive side I'm not going to take this season and say this is who he is I've seen greatness from the guy but you know that come March, the conversation is going to be, is Brock Purdy still the guy and at what price? And oh, my God, do we pay him 45, 48, do we pay him 50? What do we pay him? Do we give him two of

money? Do we go beneath that? Well, we want to bring him back, but we don't think he's worth the elite money. The price is what the price is for the quarterback, period, full stop. So, you know, I kind of feel bad for him because now he's going to get caught up in the conversation that I don't know that this year's necessarily his fault. No, but it can show some of the limitations. I guess I would just say, does every quarterback have to become the highest paid quarterback in the league? No, no, I'm with you. I'm with you on that. I'm totally with you on that. But then where do you put Right. Like, it'll be close enough. The differences aren't going to be that much. Now, if I'm Brock Purdy, do you consider a shorter-term deal that's a little lower on a per year basis? It's

life-changing money for a seventh round pick like it would be for anyone, but especially for a seventh round pick. I don't get why we're at this point that every single player has to get Mahomes money. Couldn't he slot somewhere between a Gino-Smith contract? and like a borough contract. Like it's somewhere halfway in between where it's not, it's not at the borough sphere, but it's like $5 million below.

It's above the Gino and Derek Cartier. And everyone goes on their way. Use Baker as the baseline. Sure. Add whatever percent you want and then be happy with the deal. But if I'm his reps, I'm going to want more. They want it all.

I mean, I'm going to want more. I'm not going to want borough money. I'm not going to want golf money. but I'm going to want good money. You know what's going to happen. Here, let's start this now. So the Niners faceplant down the stretch. The Vikings win at least a playoff game.

Yeah. You're going to have some Niner fans saying, bring back Sam Darnold. He showed that he now is better than Brock Purdy. Bring back Sam Darnold. Well, good luck getting him. You know, I think the Vikings aren't going to let them go. I think the franchise tag.

I've just started to think about that this week, but they have all the cap room in the world. And I'm thinking, I'll just give them the franchise tag, pay them $45 million, whatever it is next year. That seems crazy, but they can fit it very easily

and then just see how J.J. McCarthy looks and have them come back. But you're right. That will be the conversation. I don't think the 49ers will let it get that far because I think you would think they would learn something from what happened with Iyuk. and Trent Williams this year, but especially Ayyuk, where I thought that poisoned the entire season,

the way that they went through training camp, it was incredibly bad vibes. I think Debo Samuel, you mentioned the drop. It was a rough game. I mean, he got booed from the whole, the home crowd. They targeted him seven times, Andrew, 16 yards. They ran him twice for three yards. I actually think his rushing totals where he's averaging way under three yards per carry this year, and they keep trying to give it to him, is a very significant.

indicator that he's just not the same player or how they use him doesn't work like it used to it's a combination of both doesn't miss tackles and i was thinking man this is a bummer and this is how it happens he probably has one game left in his 49ers career at home and and it's sad to see him getting booed like in his second to last game yeah i think he said this week as well and maybe i imagine this but i'm pretty sure i saw it where he said about using him at the run game it's not like a secret anymore yeah like if they're going to put me in the backfield big deal. Like, I mean, okay, I'm a running back on this play. It's not like it's some subterfuge where they put him in the backfield and people start losing. Yeah, but he's one of the

least effective running backs in the league. That's the thing. Like, you'd be much better off with Patrick Taylor out there or obviously Isaac Gorenda, who, by the way, I think they got something there. He looks pretty good. Yeah, the guy can run. I mean, he's as fast as it gets. And by that Patrick Taylor, you ever go back and look at that Memphis team, all the guys they had on that Memphis team? No, I didn't. I didn't even know Patrick Taylor went to Memphis. So here, you want, this might be like the greatest collection. I should know this. It's one of Tulane's biggest rivals.

Always a problem for Tulane. So at one point, Memphis had Antonio Gibson, Daryl Henderson, Patrick Taylor, okay. Kenneth Gainwell, and one other guy. I can't remember. Hold on. Daryl Henderson and Tony Pollard. Oh, I knew there was someone.

Oh, wait. And Calvin Austin. man they were all on the same 2018 Memphis team they know where to find them and yeah Taylor was in there but if you started Grendo in fantasy a lot of people were on the borderline this week like he didn't do great but he got you 75 yards Pooka Nakua by the way like even on a night

where he had nothing in the first half breaks open for a plus 50 yarder the 49ers actually are the best in the entire NFL at preventing plus 20 catches they hadn't in weeks so it is hard to get behind that defense, Puka is just on another level, even in a night like this where they could not throw the ball at all, he goes seven for 97. Cooper Cup did not have a catch, which is absolutely wild, but that shows you who's the one, who's the two? The Rams, as you mentioned, they have

the Jets, the Cardinals and the Seahawks down the stretch. The next gen stats has them as 50-50 to make the playoffs. I feel like it's a little more because it just, to me, feels like, well, if they if they win week 18 they're in and I give them a better than 50% chance of doing that because it's at home but the Seahawks will have something to say about it we thought this was going to be a four team race

it really now looks like a two team race and a sweet victory for Rams and their coach in Sean McVe the Jets game the Rams now get the extra time who knows what the Jets going to look like in two weeks three days before Christmas

and then week's 17 is a flex game. That very well could be a Saturday, one of the NFL Network Tripleheader games. And then Sunday could be flexed week 18 to Sunday night. So you could have two. They're going to be in the mix here down the stretch. And you will as well.

Now, one of the reasons you're on tonight was we thought we'd get you for a Rams, I mean, a Brown's post-TNF game where you're doing the game and you would have been trying to do double duty and do NFL daily afterwards. but they actually flex the Browns out was Browns Bengals. And now it's next week. It's Broncos Chargers. So I feel like this is a little treat that I got to spend a little time virtually with my friend Andrew. And we get those great pipes and your great knowledge on NFL Daily.

Appreciate you, Andrew. Hey, man. I've had a blast. I'm, as I said, at the top, honored and flattered that you invited me. We could have done after the Browns and Steelers in the snow because I had to wait for like an hour to get out of there. the snow was so bad and the traffic was so bad, I had all the time in the world. Yeah, that was a sneaky classic. I've enjoyed watching the Browns this year after Deshawn Watson was gone.

They've been pretty entertaining, so hopefully they keep it. Maybe they can have their Super Bowl moment this Sunday against the Chiefs. I hope for it for your sake. I shouldn't have waited this long in the show to mention. We're not just talking TNF on this program. Our friend Ali Connolly, who's been on a. NFL daily multiple times, just happened to basically break the Bill Belichick story. And I'm, such a fan of Ali's and have been obviously a fan and a close watcher of Belichick. And the whole

story is fascinating to me. So we're going to throw it after the break to a conversation with myself and Ali Connolly. He's going to talk about kind of what went into the decision. What's next for the Belichick clan? We'll talk about how we think it'll all work. We'll do that again after the break. Thank you. Drew, it will be the first time. It will not be the last. Looking forward to having you again, back into the end. Hey, this is Matt Jones.

I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.

And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game. from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends

and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year.

Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Fiorio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast.

Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL.

Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. All right, welcoming into the program we could not escape this week before talking to our friend, Ollie Connolly, of the Read Optional Substack. If you weren't subscribed already, like, you got to check out his piece on Bill Belichick joining UNC earlier this week, Ali. I mean, I'm just looking at Twitter, looking at blue sky. And I'm hearing, oh, did you see this Belichick news? I was like, no, what is it?

And I look at, and the news is from Ali Connolly, our friend who was on NFL daily within the first couple weeks of us launching. And we did a very, you know, seen podcast about Kirk Cousins. We'll get to that later. And then was with us on one of my favorite episodes of the year, the London Recap, actually broke the news that Bill Belichick

was looking hard at this UNC job and was the first to report it. Like, how the hell did this? happen, Ollie? And are you enjoying your victory lap? I guess not. It's a weird one. I'm not usually in the newsbreaking game. I think people saw me do that. They're like, wait a second. Is he just like making a joke? He must be the weird scheme guy. No one knows in some attic in Manchester. I don't think this could be true. Is this Kurt Cousins? Is this a journalist? Who is this person? So yeah, a bit peculiar, but interesting nonetheless.

Yeah. So kind of to back it up. Maybe some people were confused, too, because the whole situation was confusing. There was no way for you to escape that. When you first reported that Belichick was taking the job, essentially, the job didn't exist. It was essentially that it was, in your words, accepting a job that he was proposing that the UNC would have to do all these things, upgrades and investments and jobs, not just his job, but a general manager, which we've now found out is going to be Michael Lombardi. and all of this, this 400-page organizational Bible, essentially, that he gave to them. Like, how did this come to you or whatever you're comfortable saying? Or just like, how did this come about in reality?

Less about you and more just about, like, how did this happen? Yeah, I think that, look, the NFL situations were closed off that he had, from why, I understand one conversation with one team who had a current coach, none of the teams with vacancies were interested. The conversation did not go well. probably worse than the conversations went last year when he had obviously one interview as everyone knows and didn't make the finalists

top three finalists for the Falcons job and I think it was pretty clear the NFL was unlikely to be an option at least in the way he would want it to be and obviously control as a huge element for him and not just control but who he can actually staff a building with in every department not just on the coaching staff

and the thing that has jumped out to me throughout all of this and the reason why I kind of went with it early compared to everyone else is they've been looking at college gigs for like a year. This was not like a, this one popped up and I wrote a too long story today. People can go and read. It's 8,000 words. It gets into every single detail of what's happened over a season. They were doing background research on how things went wrong for Bill Walsh when he returned to college as an NFL legend, out of the game for three seasons, had three Super Bowls,

went back to Stanford and it went pretty miserably for Bill Walsh. They were looking into what went wrong there with a legend term media personality turned college football coach. And it got my antenna up of, oh, it's interesting. You guys are all reading this book. I want to read that book now, too. It's called Rough Magic. It's by Lowell Cohn, who, oh, look, he's holding it up. We're such dorks. Because I actually, I thought, like, this is a good time to kind of just talk a little, you know, football dork book. Like, behind me, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see my little football library that my wife made me put out into the garage. I don't know if these books are going to get ruined. But yeah, I got some favorites here, too. There's, like, that book, The Genius about Bill Walsh, which

by David Harris, which kind of was sad and made me think he didn't really enjoy being Bill Walsh totally. One thing I got from your article, and again, read optional. Everyone subscribe. Like, I don't ask for much. We, you know, we have advertising and stuff, but support good football writing and great football podcasting. I've been checking out all these podcasts with John Ledyard for a while, and it's really worth it. But the written article that you mentioned today is fascinating, And it got me sort of thinking, we'll get back to, like, the NFL not wanting him. But what does Bill Belichick really want in life? It's why I took the UNC stuff seriously just from seeing it.

Obviously, it was from you, but there were other people, too. Because it made sense, like, Bill Belichick's not enjoying being in the media. Like, what is going to make him happy in life? It's going to be coaching. And if the NFL is not giving him a job or he's unsure if he could possibly get a job, then I'll coach where I can coach. and like that group that you're talking about around them that's maybe reading the book

like is it safe to say it's like the same is the same it's like it's the same the same cast of characters that everyone could reel off their hands including Mr. Lombardi who was named General Manager within 20 minutes of Bill. Well and you reported too on that Stephen Belichick's involvement

is part of the whole deal at UNC. Yeah and a conversation going in of I would like this in writing that he would be head coaching waiting some kind of guarantee. I think that was a real big like, whoa, that's not really what we're interested in. But as you were saying before, he went in and just shop for the moon. If I'm going to do this, we need to be competitive. We need to go from being a academic institution with a famous basketball team to being a football school. It's a football program. It's a football

factory that I control and that just happens to be tied to a school. That was the plan. That was the pitch. This is what you need. Resources, staffing, two separate staffs, right? A recruiting staff. That is not for me. I'm good. Michael and someone else will control that for me. they'll be the conduit. I'll sign things off. I'll watch some tape. I'll close the deals like Dion does at Colorado. And I'll run the football side. I'll bring all my friends in. We'll get the NFL guys. I'll get some guys I know from college and I'll run the football department and be just the CEO of the program. And I think to your point about what did he want, that's the real difference in dichotomy between Walsh. That's why the book is so fascinating and why it's so interesting that

they were reading this a year ago, is Walsh went back into school to kind of prove something to himself about his offensive system, thought he missed coaching, thought he missed the whistle and the grass and being around the players. But it was really internally about Bill Walsh and his struggle with losing a grip on being the coach, like the personality of genius coachman, whereas Bill Belichick realized I just missed the actual coaching, the technique of it, actually having the whistle, being involved with people day to day, being with my son in the film room and breaking down things. We don't spend a lot of time together. My grandkids are all over the place. Us all being in one hub, I'm not going to get that in Jacksonville.

I'm not going to get that in Dallas. I can get it in Carolina and I'll do it if they acquiesce to 10,000 things I need to make it competitive so I don't embarrass myself and spoil my legacy at the end here. And they agree to it. Right. He's competitive. And so I think you wrote great about it. It's multiple things can be true that it's the joy of it.

He's getting towards the end of the life. Hell, I'm in my mid-40s. I think about the end of life and like what matters and finding my joy and everything like on a hourly basis. I'm sure Bill Belichick does as well. And so having that opportunity to just like coach with his son, like that to me and just coaching in general probably is the biggest job. But like he also knows about legacy.

He doesn't want his last game coaching. And I had to check this out be a 17 to three loft of the Jets. It is sad. Like coaching careers always end poorly. Like Vince Lombardi more or less died on the job for coaching a mediocre. or Washington team, which is, you know, about as sad as it gets like, that didn't ruin his legacy. No one really cares. No one really remembers that. What Bill Belgic did is not going to change, but I did have to go check that their last game, I mean, it can't get lower than this,

ended the Patriots 15 game winning streak over the Jets. And it was to the Trevor Simeon-led Jets with Bailey Zappy, Zappy going 12 for 30. And it was in the snow, if you remember, and snow was like clustering on his face and it was just like the most sad depressing and the legacy thing to me is interesting because people are banding around this idea of the winds record right like oh he's going to come back for the wins record in what world did anyone even care about the wins record frankly before like three four years ago was that even brought up ever in the case of his don schula better than bill bellichick no we go by lombardies mostly or innovation right when i was asking people about that midway through being like is this really going to swing a decision like surely if

someone just came to him with the same offer of you run a franchise, he'd take the NFL. The answer was yes, that was not going to happen in this go-around. And he did not want to be left at the altar. It publicly embarrassed again that he was left out of a hiring cycle. So he jumped at the first opportunity that was there that would meet his demands. The boat that he has is called eight rings. It is not called 333 wins. He does not care about the wins record.

He cares about the championships. That's what drives him. And then the coaching day-to-day aspect, I think, is really, really critical. being able to be on the field every day, teaching technique, the things that he really enjoys and doing it with a group of coaches who are essentially family at this point. That's why they all hang around with him all the time. We may think that some of them are laughable or funny when they go other places. They're really meaningful to him. And so to be able to get them all back together again coaching, I think is the reason why he's doing this. Yeah, Matt Patricia,

outside of the Patriots ecosystem, probably worthy of your laughs. But he worked inside of the the Patriots ecosystem. Lombardi, that's a bit of a red flag. I always was, I always was like, huh, like when you'd see them at the Combine and they're at Shulah's, ironically, the now closed bar and state place. And it's just Belichick and Lombardy, or it's like Belichick, Lombardy and one other coach or whatever. And you're like, wow, he really likes this guy. Like, this is really the guy he wants to bounce off of. And so I think there is a concern that, okay, it makes sense. He wants the silo. I don't want to deal with the money part of it, NIL. I think that Lombardi's got to do it, but man, I'm a little concerned that Lombardi's in charge of all that. I think the misunderstanding

of the Lombardi thing is from what I understand is that is very much as a buffer for all the college bullshit you have to deal with. When there's the booster club meeting and Bill's supposed to go and people will be disappointed because Bill doesn't want to go do the booster club meeting. He wants to be watching film of Wake Forest or Richmond, I guess, because that's who they have to play next season. Not the Bengals, not the Cowboys. He's going to play Richmond next season. That's actually a thing that's happening with Bill Belichick. He's going to be playing against Tulane, excellent redshirt freshman Darien Mensa, who was ESPN's number one guy in the portal.

He left us and he's now at Duke. So the big Darian Mensa versus Belichick game, it blows my mind, sorry. Lombardi is nothing if not smooth and comfortable in like C-suite situations. And so I think as sending him along as kind of like the chaperone of, a face of the program behind the scenes is the filter to, Bill helps them deal with all the shenanigans, people like, Bill Belagic doesn't want to go and do those things. He doesn't want to go to the luncheon. While you said Michael Lombardi, who can glad hand and smile and is charismatic with these people, and that limits some of the impact. I know

you can roll your eyes and I agree with you, but in those circles, you know this too, that he can at least operate in those situations for it. No, that's an important skill. I always thought one of Mike Tannenbaum's best skill. And I like Mike Tannenbaum. He's obviously extremely intelligent, but one of his best skills is like he's good at talking to owners. Someone needs to be able to do that. And Lombardi can maybe fulfill that service, kind of be a high level, almost assistant on some level, like a personal assistant, but on a more like business football.

Like, do you think Bill Belichick will be a good college coach? Let's just like take out the NIL and recruiting and everything else. Like brass tacks, he's going to be game planning for these teams. Like, what do you think that looks like? Yeah, he's going to be game batting against Darbo, Sweeney, and Mario Cristobal. I feel pretty confident that Bill Belichick will be okay, frankly. I think any notion that he's not is pretty silly. I do think there's an interesting thing going on in college sports schematically at the football level

where the college game was more advanced than the NFL defensively, four, five, six years ago because you could just have so many people on campus for so long to sustain him out of time that guys like Kirby Smart and Nick Saban have more complex systems than people in the NFL where you're bringing a street free agent. to play cornerback for one week and you're not able to install systems year after year after year where they have a lot of reading on the fly complex things. As now every season is just build a team year by year, bring this transfer and bring that transfer in, I do think that it's going to become less complex.

And that to me is the thing I'm looking forward to seeing is how complex does Bill Belichick want to be? That was the thing Bill Walsh ran into, did not want to change what he thought was the perfect football system for the college level. But then he's also the most adaptable coach we've ever seen. That's the greatness. The greatness is not one great scheme. one great innovation, it's knowing how to tailor the scheme to the players he has available and how to teach basically everything in football on all sides of the ball, special teams,

offense, defense. And so I think if you give this guy a chance to be adaptable week-to-week defensively against what college has to offer, I honestly think he'd run circles around them defensively. Yeah, I tend to agree. Because that never left it. And you made that point, too, in the article, like they were eighth and EPA per play allowed last year, the Patriots. They actually improved after it came out that Belichick was essentially going to get fired. But that does leave the offensive side. Like we haven't heard any reporting. Like, is it going to be Josh McDaniels there?

I would feel better about that than like, you know, we're sending Matt Patricia back over to the offensive side. It's like, you know, he showed, he didn't have like a magic wand that was going to be able to fix what was going on on the Patriots offensive side the last couple of years. No, but I think that I would be really surprised if there were not at least a bunch of little minionie hot shot. R.P.O. Kings rolling around there who are friends with Stephen or have got a recommendation from Jed Fish or Nick Saban and guys who can at least put input in. But I have no idea what it's going to look like. Will he try and do the Herm Edwards things where it's like actually an NFL team in college football that becomes a disaster and everyone gets in legal trouble? Like that's plausible. This is Bill Belichick. But I, I would think that just be wanting to win

will override the rest of it. Yeah. I'm like excited to see it. And he's so, he's so cognizant of football history, but I don't think like he's going to be like a prisoner to that. Like he grew up on college campus. So another book I have here, you know, sitting here is the old football scouting methods by Steve Belichick, which, you know, he wrote at the U.S. Naval Academy and famously got to stay there forever and never, never tried to become the head coach in a way because he thought it was more stable

and he had a better family life. That's basically where Belichick grew up as a kid and as a coach on some level because he was essentially a coach as a 14-year-old hanging out with his dad and now he can kind of return the favor. I'm optimistic as a Belichickian. I've gotten used to this already.

It makes sense to me that the NFL ultimately wasn't that interested, which do you think teams are making a mistake by not wanting Belichick at the NFL level? I think, I don't think they're making a mistake if it was that we're going to hand a 73-year-olds at the start of the next season, our entire operation from the nutrition staff to the analytics department for what, three, four, five seasons that I completely understand that. Teams just don't operate that way anymore.

They're really siloed. They bring coaches in and now. The coaching staffs are so transient. Some quarterback coach goes here, some guy comes overhead. You get an assistant head coach the following season, right? So I get that. As just the coach, it is still mind-numbing to me and just jaw-dropping that 11 months ago, we as a collective public, I think, Greg, you were probably doing this too, right? We're discussing maybe axing Nick Siriani to slide in Bill Belichick and just looking at different circumstances of competitive playoff teams. Would they be better off letting go of their good to average to maybe very good coach in place of Bill Belichick? And 11 months later, he's going to a middle class second to college football program. Yeah, middle class is generous. I mean, it's in an upper class relatively, you know, conference,

but it's at the bottom of it, the ACC, which is an opportunity for him. You know, kind of, you want to, the old Parcellism, you want to take over the team when they're at the bottom. You're right, that Eagles example, though, that was maybe the one. Because there was reporting by Seth Wickersham that he was telling the Falcons that he didn't need to take over all the operations. But if you're the GM there, you know, you're not going to. You're not going to buy that.

There's no way you'd buy. He has a 30-year track record. And I think, like, one of the least admirable things, you know, throughout this season, if you want to get on Belichick or certainly, Lombardi's, like, they were hammering the Falcons, the Jets, and the Patriots in their media appearances, especially Lombardi. He had a little pet name, like, calling their GM a name, like, over. And it's like, okay, you're obviously just, like, kind of. I know.

And it's not like they hired a dunderhead in Atlanta. And they got Rahe Morris. Right. This is a good hire. This is a great coach. They know he's an excellent coach. Whether it works or not long term, they signed a quarterback. Maybe they should not have done.

Like, you can definitely quibble with the GM and whether he should have got full power or just coach power. But to take shots at them because you didn't get a coaching job when a very qualified, good coach got the job is a bit strange. Right, which is why I'm glad he's going back to coaching. Because if he was going to do the media, like do it. Give us some real takes. But really, it felt like settling scores and being as vague as possible while he was doing his

real job, which was making this 400-page Bible and looking for another job. I mean, it is amazing how he could pull off having eight different media jobs at the same time. What do you think this manual was like, are we ever going to see this manual? Well, I know. It's so frustrating. As I was told, I could release portions of it if he didn't get the job, then he got the job. That was a killer. That was a killer. And the people really got carried away with that. There was, you know, justice for call a stallions. When he does it, it's a Bible. When a white job does it, it's a manifesto. I get all that. This is not an unusual thing. I get why it caught fire because it's Belichick. It's like, wow, what could possibly be in there? That's the thing you're holding the book there. What Belichick

has been writing for two years, including in the Final Patriot season, is his own version of the winning edge. That's what he's been working on. Yeah, Bill Walsh has this famous book, Finding the Winning Edge that every football guy has in their library and speaks as like the Holy Bible. And, you know, not exactly a quick read for the average fan, but it is interesting. It's basically how to build an organization and how to coach from the ground up. And so I always thought it would be interesting to see like an updated version of that and this would be that. Yeah, and he had a college one written and a NFL one written. The reason why I reported that at the time that I thought was interesting is he had Taylor made the college one for Carolina, right?

So it's an examination of the depth chart, it's transfer targets. It's why would this man go through this trouble? There was graphics in his presentation. Can you imagine Bill Belichick sat at a laptop screen designing cool graphics about titans? I cannot. Therefore, I was like, it's pretty clear. These guys are interested seriously in the job if demands will be met. He's not going to sit down on Photoshop or whatever he did to work through his Bible. Well, he's definitely got someone younger with him, right? He's got, I mean, it's like, yeah, my son is much better making slideshows for his class than I am. He's got someone working

with him. But it shows, it shows how serious it is. He is, I'm excited about it. Like, he's much, I think he's going to be much more fun to watch from afar and cover than have as like a fellow media member. How does it feel for you? You know, you're wearing that Boston hat. You're a young guy. You know, you've had some experience with this coaching tree. You kind of reveal in the article. Again, everyone check out the read optional substack.

Like, how does it feel to be a little speck, a little part of the Belichick story here? The guy who got it out there as the that he's going. going to UNC, shock the world. I guess I think my mistake as an insider, if I'm critiquing myself, is being almost too detailed, I think. I think if there's more vagaries, people are liable maybe to believe it more.

I kind of just put out the exact contract, like, in full, which I don't think is normally out. The insider game goes, I think you just say deal close or stumbling blocks rather than articulating it. But it feels slightly surreal. I guess the payoff for having like tons of Dunkin' Donuts with guys 10 years ago around Boston College.

Maybe that's what it is. I'm writing 12,000 words about why Zach Bonn is the best off-born linebacker in the NFL. You know, the reward is getting a 24-hour heads up on Bill Belichick, I guess. So you're going Bon over Warner for your all-pro team. Oh, wait, can you get to off-ball linebacker? They could both go there. I think you could squeeze both in. Okay.

Speaking of football takes, you were on an episode, first one that you were on, on NFL Daily was an episode entitled, What if the bad Kirk Cousins shows up this year? It happened. Like, talk about patting yourself on the back. This is a big week, a big month. You know, you famously look a lot like Kirk Cousins if you're watching. And how do you feel watching your namesake how he's playing lately?

I feel sad watching it that his arm strength just eroded in the middle of the season. It wasn't that strong to begin with. He couldn't move at the beginning of the season. and they had to overhaul their entire offense to hide the fact he couldn't move. And then they got him to move a little bit and somehow that seemed to evaporate his arm. And so there's elements of it

and then just making really, really peculiar decisions because he just cannot drive the ball into coverage anymore. So yeah, and I've written and I believe that you took Michael Pennex with the first pick. This was always the bind you're going to get yourself into. What if this contract is a dud from the get-go? And I think they've got a decision to make

and the decision I think will be go and find out what you have in the rookie sooner rather than later. I kind of get while they're sticking with him this one week because he really did do a lot of good things, Kirk, last week. Like, it felt like it was, like you saw a lot of the things you wanted to see, but then you saw the two interceptions that kind of ruined the rest of the positive stuff. But I kind of would want to see it maybe for one more week before pulling the plug.

Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm sentimental. I don't know if it's sentimentality. We've seen him have like three, four, five solid week stretches in the season. But once the arm goes at that rate and you're playing week after. after weak and absorbing shots or refusing to take hits because they start to really, really hurt when you're getting older. I'm not sure what you can do around that,

which would be the concern, is that he feels liable now for five ducks a game, and you're just really hoping that two of them don't wind up with the other team. It's depressing, but also makes me feel good because we really didn't do an episode quite like that during the rest of the preseason that was just like a thought experiment. Like, everyone's just assuming that this is going to be

some great Kirk Cousins experience, He wasn't always great, even when he was healthy. It feels like their answer to our question, what happens is they're just like, let's try and hide and pretend like this isn't happening. And hopefully no one sees the stat lines of zero touchdowns, 14 turnovers in a three-week run. Oh, yeah. I mean, they did such a admirable job. I thought he did too.

It was almost like they were playing football with like these ankle weights and with just all sorts of restrictions in this tiny little box. And they were kind of making it work, which I thought was important. impressive for a while. Ali Connolly, he loves ball. Maybe that's why you got this story, because they saw a like-minded individual in Ollie Connolly, like a little salty, not afraid to puff his chest out. You sent me a text if people thought I was more unsufferable

before, wait until after this. But ultimately, it's about the joy that you're getting from this game. Very cool, man. I'm glad that, you know, it happened, that it's going, and you're going to have to be the Belichick inside of the next couple of years, in addition to all the X's and O's on the NFL that you're doing at the Read Optional. I think it moves to North Carolina might be on the cards. This could be happening.

Let's go. Yeah, Ali, if you didn't know, is living over in the UK. That's where he was on that week six recap. We've got to get him on NFL daily more, maybe in the offseason when the timing works out better. Thank you. Again, Ollie, it has been a big week. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in and listening. We will be back on Friday with the PICS show with Cynthia Freeland against the spread.

And yeah, when Bill Belichick has a freaking head coaching job again, you know football is back. Finally. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game. from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends,

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