NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Ravens/Colts Recap & Sesslerdramus

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal recap the crazy overtime Ravens/Colts game and the latest news surrounding the Raiders and Jon Gruden. The heroes preview the TNF matchup between the Eagles and Bucs. Marc Sessler gets some sandwiches. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. It's fine. Everything's fine. As a yin and a yank. Hello from America.

It's the around the NFL podcast. That's my British affactation. I gained sophistication. Dan Hansis with Greg Rosenthal. Erica Tampos, back in the States. And not only are we back in the States. We're back. And I mean, we all the way back, baby, the best as we can be.

Because Mark Sessler is back. What's up, quiet story? Oh, I feel like, you know, this is the second time I've had to discuss returning to the show after a medical scare. It's getting just slightly old. I have learned... Like in the last month, yeah. Second time in the last month. I think probably the upshot is I hastened my return the first time, which might have been against, you know, smarter advisement.

I have learned the value of having a great nurse here and there. that have been, a lot of people help me out during this whole thing, but also, I don't know, to make it, to keep it short. Like, I have, I think, you know, anyone that's been away for any period, our listeners, I have heard from a ton of them, and I really thank them for everything that they wrote. It has been a weird month. Like I, my life has changed a little bit from a physical perspective. I don't need to dig into all that, but it's good to be back here, and I couldn't thank you more the three of you and everyone surrounding you that handled the TV shows, the podcast, of course, the trip to London. You guys did an incredible job from what I saw.

And, you know, I did my best to handle any sort of drama that occurred here in the States while you were gone. Very little popped up. But it's, it also, you know, we've done this show for so long and we've had to go through periods where you've got to pitch in and do a little bit more. and I know that you guys did that, it really, it kind of, it was terrible to be away on some level because just as an aging man, you're watching like your career occur without you kind of from a distance. And I had to reconcile a lot of that and you have a lot of hours alone to think about your life. And I don't think anything for me will ever really be the same. But it also is the same in many ways. And so I guess I'm just happy to be back with all three of you.

people should know that mark is live via satellite inside an iron lung that's right it's a wonderful place to be he's live inside of kirk cousins his plus plexiglass container oh mark we we missed you so much buddy uh and the audience did as well and yeah we had a great time in england but obviously it's just you know not the same without the quiet storm so it's great to have you in the mix when you referred to a great nurse was that some pillow talk involving your wife, or was that an actual nurse, like a practitioner of medicine? Well, I won't reveal the former, but on the latter point, I think that, you know, I probably over since late August, you know, nurses work three days a week, but they work these

12-hour longer shifts. And I kind of think that's an incredible setup. I think maybe I should have been a nurse had it been more trendy back in the day. I like the four days off. I could have I could totally see you. Yeah, I mean, you have to kind of care for people. It's nice. But I would say that, you know, having probably 30 of them over the last month plus, the way, Dan, that you power rank 32 teams, I easily could have come up with an article about power ranking nurses, an article that literally no one would have interest in reading. But some really did their jobs with aplomb. And I would note that right away and appreciate that mail.

Tell us about number 27, Olga. 27 very run down one thing I've learned is I am a pretty polite patient I was told that by you don't want to be a nightmare but what I learned was that when you're not the squeaky wheel and I think this is you know all areas of life if you have children especially the non squeaky wheel gets ignored so the Olga at 27 would be the type that you know on her 12 hour shift she stopped by three times you know and I'm totally dehydrated and fading away because you're not the most annoying patient. There are plenty of them. So you've got to get in there and kind of learn the smarts of how to be just vocal enough to get attended to. That's what I've learned.

Wow. And what a lesson that is. Not that I'm hoping that you have to deal with that. No, I mean, and you'll have to promise us not to leave us again because we miss you when you're not here. And, you know, we were supposed to do a show. We were going to take a little break on Tuesday because We flew in, got in early last evening into Los Angeles, 10-hour flight after a crazy week and all that. The plan was to take it easy Tuesday, come back Wednesday. But then some crazy stuff went down. First, of course, the John Gruden News, which we're about to dive into.

And then like a wild Monday night game where Lamar Jackson authored one of the more memorable primetime performances in quite a long time. And with that all there, Greg, it was like, all right, I think we got to throw up the bat signal. We got to get back into the bunker cast studio setups at home and rip one off. Football waits for no travel plans. No, it's good. I mean, this was a wild fork in the road for two big NFL characters.

Well, it might be the last time we talked about John Gruden for quite a while. I think that's certainly possible. All right. And also, we're going to cap the episode by previewing the first game of week. six? Look how the time flies. My goodness. Mark Sessler's back. Let's do some news. All right. Here we go. John Gruden. Unbelievable turn of events in the NFL on Monday. The Raiders coach who's been involved in the NFL for decades, came back, signed a 10-year, $100 million deal with the Raiders to lead them back to

the promised land instead after three seasons in five games he is out as a result of reports that emails he wrote over a 10 year period included racist misogynistic and anti-gay language that i mean that's the hat trick if you're looking to get run the hell out of town and your career to be shot there it is and he he did it all uh and you know this is a situation that we saw leading into the weekend. It was a story because it was the DeMora Smith jabs and the racist tropes and the language he used. And little

did we know at the time, but other teams and the league and news organizations, most prominently the New York Times, there was much, much more. And it all came back to bite, Gruden in a big way. And he had this statement released on Monday. I love the Raiders

and I do not want to be a distraction. Thank you to all the players, coaches, staff and fans. of Raider Nation. I'm sorry. I never meant to hurt anyone. Greg, there's there's long-term ramifications for the Raiders. There's short-term ramifications for the Raiders, and we'll get to that. But the central figure here, John Gruden, a towering figure, really, in both the sidelines in the NFL and in the broadcasting ranks, he's gone and he ain't coming back. I know. I think of the few days after he won the Super Bowl with Tampa and Bill Belichick wrote this column weirdly

in the New York Times. And the column was like, what are you going to do next? And it was basically John Gruden at that moment was as bright a young coaching light as I can remember over the last 20 years. Very similar to Sean McVay, I think, when he popped up. But if Sean McVay had won the Super Bowl, and you think about what happened after that in Tampa, after that win, which is mediocrity, and then you think about this run, which has been mediocrity, and then you think about now how it's going to end and will forever be connected to Gruden, you know, as one of the first couple lines in his obituary, how this went out in the most, like, embarrassing, ugly, pathetic way possible and I think when the second batch of information came out which Mark Davis,

the Raiders owner apparently had a little bit of an idea was coming anyways and I think was prepared for it. There was no choice for Mark Davis because Raiders history of all teams is the history of inclusion. They have been ahead of the NFL every step of the way in terms of diversity in terms of giving black people executive jobs, giving them coaching jobs, giving Latinx coaching jobs, having, you know, quarterbacks in that position, having women in executive positions. The Raiders are such a unique franchise in history, but that is one of the things that has made them more unique than ever.

And so Mark Davis, I think knowing what his father would do made a probably what for him was obviously a painful decision, but I can't imagine it was one that, that was that difficult for him. It was pretty obvious because to Mark Davis to Al Davis, something meant a little more of what it meant to be a raider. I don't think he knew all of this stuff about Gruden, obviously, when he hired him, but he found it out this weekend, and that was it.

And you move on, and maybe we will talk Gruden in the future because there will be lawyers, you know, there will be money disputes, and there will be a lot more that goes on just between the Raiders and John Gruden. But unbelievable to see a career like that. that was once at that pedestal taken out in one of the most, I don't know, brutal ways and deserving ways that we've ever seen from a figure of that level. Yeah, I mean, I love that you mentioned the Belichick letter in the time that spans.

I mean, Gruden is one of these figures that, you know, on a football front has been in our lives for decades plus because it wasn't even just the Buck's job. It was him rising up as a colorful character with the Niners and previous roles and just him on television and the persona of Gruden as much as anything else. But I guess, you know, for all of us, you know, character will be revealed. And, you know, I think that it's fair to look at this from a couple different angles. And you're absolutely right about the Raiders, Greg. I think it's fair to question, even with the DeMora Smith comments that came out why Gruden would have been coaching on Sunday. That's for another day because I think

it's pretty evident because Gruden, you know, talked, he talked over the weekend to Chris Mortensen about some of the disparaging Goodell comments. He did not give total details, but you get the sense that the Raiders and Mark Davis knew, and you're absolutely right about the Raiders. If I, if I feel that I was benefited by one story I worked on last year, it was like spending weeks talking to guys like Art Shell and old school Raiders. And it was Art Shell who became the second, really the first African-American head coach in the modern era after Fritz Pollard way back when. Al Davis, you know, he refused to play in Mobile, Alabama back in the early 60s because of segregation. He hired Amy Trask, Tom Flores, Carl Nassib is the first openly gay player on the Raiders.

The athletics set it perfectly of Al Davis. He respected talent no matter how it was packaged. And so the Raiders have been a different team than the rest of the league on that front. And I think it's Mark Davis's... Really essentially two decades-long fascination with Gruden. I mean, he courted him for six years before hiring him, and they talked about the fact that Mark Davis had a favorite laundromat in Tampa because he was down there so often trying to get Gruden back into the grip of the Raiders.

I don't know what Mark Davis is doing at a laundromat to begin with. But, I mean, you look at all the people in these emails that Gruden... Underrated place to hang out laundromats. I guess so. I just remember he's also the same guy that got like $8 haircuts at Supercuts and drove around that pop-top van. And he's a little different. That's fair.

He does things in the Mark Davis way. But, I mean, if you go through the laundry list of who was ripped on by Gruden in these emails, I think it just came to a point where there is literally no argument for him to stay. Was there an argument after the... Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, like, you're mentioning Mark Davis and like a decision he had to make. There was no decision. This is 2021.

And when you're seeing the gaislers used to describe Roger Ging, you know, Adele, the commissioner, and all the anti-feminist comments he was saying about various figures getting opportunities, whether it's on coaching staffs or on the sidelines or on the officiating ranks. I mean, it was a wrap. By the time I got to the third paragraph of that New York Times story, when we got off the plane from London, it was like, oh, well, okay, John Gruden's career is over. And, you know, it's like, first of all, Mark, the, I can't believe Belichick writes a letter

about John Gruden of all people. and you still can't get a letter back from Gruden from Belichick, after all the great things you sent him back in the day. That's on my radar. But I'll say this, too, because Gruden, you know, his stripes were revealed. And he said over the weekend, there isn't a blade of racism in him. These emails obviously say otherwise, not just racism, but all other kind of repugnant thoughts that he should have known better.

Even if you have that inside you, you have to be smarter. And it makes me think, it makes me think there are a lot of coaches, GMs, owners, scouts, up and down the NFL ladder on this morning being like, what did I send? What did I send? What emails are out there that are connected to me? Because John Gruden did not send that from an NFL account. They sent that from a personal account to his old buddy, Bruce Allen, his old henchman, who was with Washington. And he was dumb enough to be sending all sorts of things. things from the official Washington account and that is just something to just to wonder what is

there going to be more fallout from this and it wasn't a Gruden investigation. This is all connected to the Washington football team investigation and all the misconduct that was going on there behind the scenes under Daniel Snyder. So that is an element of this story too, like the shockwaves that come with this because again, Gruden, Greg, towering figure in this league. And if he could be taken out and be exposed this way, maybe there's other people. people too. Well, right, because you only send those emails because, like, it's a normal thing to do at the time. That's the thing. People were like, well, this was 11 years ago. First of all, the man was in his late 40s, 11 years ago. Like, what is this thing? It's like, well, you know, he's grown

since them. It's like, this is a grown man. Let's, let's stop with the, like, this is 11 years ago that that's, that's so different. But it's just a, look, it's not a, it's not a surprising thing. There's tons of racist and homophobic and sexist people in all. In every business, especially the higher up you go. And especially 11 years ago, people felt comfortable expressing that. It's like a boys club. And at that level, it's a rich white boys club. And so you could scrub all these emails from different accounts and that you would find it.

The fact that it's only out there because the owner of the Washington football team was found to be responsible for a workplace. that condoned and essentially supported sexual harassment and assault, all sorts of things. And even these emails where they're talking about sending pictures between Alan and Gruden is part of that. The fact that it's only coming out because of that is really wild because we haven't seen those emails. And Dan Snyder, we talked about it on this podcast, it was a, on one hand, like an incredibly embarrassing moment for him to be taken off the day-to-day operations of Washington, the football team

that he went. On the other hand, his wife is running the team, and that the last year and a half since they hired Jason Wright has basically been like a year and a half long press release of like how we've changed as a team. As recently as a couple months ago, she, you know, his Dan Slater's wife is on the Adam Schefter podcast, and it's basically doing PR about like how tough it is on them. And you just have to wonder, like, are more of these coming out? Because that was the bigger that was the bigger story gruden gruden needs to be wiped out and everything but that that was like the bigger story and it is fascinating that the NFL is officially asked you know taking this moment of the public paying attention to this story again and asked for them to release the emails and

so we'll see if that there's enough public pressure uh for the NFL to consider any of this because there's a lot of people like guessing who the sources are I don't think you can do that and it's just like it's impossible there's I mean another another another big aspect to this story is the targeted nature of it. I think we all agree that what John Gruden did was absolute grounds for immediate dismissal and he's gone. We all feel, I mean, we don't all know a lot of coaches personally, but the coaching community is a circle. No one's fired for long. It is an old boys club, although that's changing, you know, on minuscule amounts. But at this point, I think that, like, you'd have to assume that if you heavily vetted all 32 head coaches,

this is my guess that 20 plus would be in serious hot water, if not more. I mean, I think some of your younger coaches are coming up through a different prism and portal. But Gruden belongs to a time period where that was completely different. And on the Washington front, I mean, completely separate to what Gruden said, they went through 650,000 emails. You talk about a group of rich whites that essentially run things, but there's another layer of it, and it's the ownership because the report on Snyder was given to the league

in oral fashion. It was not written. This is a league that did a 243-page written report on Tom Brady using inflated footballs. When it comes to the players and what they would call the coaches and the players, and it was said way back when that those are the cattle. We can get rid of them, we can replace them. The reports on those people are thorough and rich,

but there's no written report on what else was found in this Washington investigation. And, I mean, there needs to be much more push for that because we're talking about a level of ownership and leadership that goes above the coaching level. Mark, you return and right on cue, a conspiracy is foot maybe in the NFL. Not to make light of the situation, but it is, there are layers to this

and it is going to be interesting how it all turns out in terms of yes what else comes out. You can get rid of coaches. You can't get rid of owners because I think if you could Well you can, Jerry Richardson will tell you you can but it takes a lot for it to happen. But he stepped down. You know, I think if you could

then we would have different ownership in Washington or at least if they felt like they could. You honestly think, Greg, that Jerry Richardson steps down by choice there or because he doesn't have an option? He stepped down because he was completely embarrassed and his career was in flames. Now, in Washington, in that he just felt like it was the, you know, he was pressured and he felt like it was the right thing to do.

What I'm trying to say is Washington, there's, first of all, but in many moments where publicly in Washington that you could have said that, but that they've resisted the public pressure there. I mean before any of this workplace stuff. But yes, I think there's probably been pressure in various fashions, certainly publicly and through the media on Washington to change ownership. But I would tend to surmise, like, privately, too. And it's never happened.

It's never happened because there's, there's, it's a, it gets very complicated. That's, in theory, a boss of the person you're trying to push out. You know, they're the boss of Roger Goodell. Right. The penalty for owners is you hand it off to a spouse or a daughter or son or some family member who can take over for you. It's not actually new control of an owner, of a team for the most part. And now, spinning back to the Raiders side of things, in the short term, this is the situation.

Rich Basaccia takes over as the interim head coach, and that is a very tough gig. The Raiders, I mean, how much things have changed? He's assistant coach Vasachi, has been around forever, just like all of Gruden's guys. And two weeks ago, the Raiders are 3 and O in one of the big stories in football, and the Raiders are a vibe in that building. Now, the vibe has changed around the Raiders, and you just will see what happens. Is this a team that now goes in the tank? Do they kind of follow whatever path they were originally on? We're going to see what happens in the short term.

And in the long term, and this is also, this is something we'll find out as time goes along. But it's almost unprecedented. Gruden wasn't just the head coach. I know Mike Mayock is a general manager, but this was Gruden's team. He was the face of the Las Vegas Raiders. He was the face on the sideline. He was the boss. He had a major hand in the personnel side of things.

Maybe even above Mayok, most likely, yes. And all of a sudden, over one weekend, you pull that guy out and he heads for the curb. And as an organization, it's like, oh, boy, now what? I mean, this is maybe not an episode of now what on the around the NFL podcast. But that is exactly what the Raiders are probably wondering right now. What do we do next? Because the entire organization in a lot of ways was John Gruden. And now he gone.

Right. So that's a huge story, too. Right. Who's even they at this point? They is the team for the rest of the 2021 season, who was 25th in DVOA through five weeks. It was won a couple of close games, was pretty poor the last couple weeks. You know, it has some things to like about it. It has a quarterback playing really well. But has a quarterback playing really well in the system that John Gruden ran.

Right. You know, he was with him for four years. And if there was one positive thing about this John Gruden's second tenure, I think he called plays pretty well. and the players that were there in his offensive system, mostly Carr, improved. But it's not a good team on paper. You know, it's probably a mediocre or less than that. I know they lost less two games in DVOA.

DVOA means everything to a lot of people, but I think the Raiders are a competitive team. I think it's just like an underlying thing that they were a competitive but pretty average team. You watch that team. I feel like Carr is playing at a top five or six level and he's carrying a terrible offensive line and they give up a lot of big plays, certainly defensively still, even if they're like a little better.

It's just crazy because Mayock has to assume he's not going to be there next year. Of course, he'll try to do everything he can to make it, but it's going to probably be a new coach that Mark Davis hired, and new coach isn't going to want that GM. And it's just not how things work generally. You could almost assume that everyone associated with this Raiders coaching, staff is not going to be there next year. And that Derek Carr, who's under contract for very cheap, that'll be up to the next coach. Well, and also their team president left. And I know that

kind of stuff flies by like our radar to some degree, but he essentially, Mark Bedain, the team president, left under rather, you know, mysterious surprising circumstances. There was like three or four executives too. And people were chattering about like what is going on with the Raiders that all these executives are leaving in like a noble circumstance. And it leaves Mark Davis to, have to rebuild, you know, the vision of the team from scratch. I'm not sure that's the first owner I'd pick to do that. His vision was John Gruden. And John Gruden, to your point, Dan, running the entire organization with, you know, who would have ever put money on Mike Mayock outlasting John Gruden? It took something like this. And the Raiders are in free fall because

it's administrative side and coaching football side that they've got to dig their way out of. Ricky, last thought. Go ahead. I just think there's a couple of, obviously, all of this is so important one this story drops on right before monday night football which something gruden was heavily involved in which is interesting two yesterday was national coming out day and so to think of some of his players where we have the first openly gay player on this team uh to kind of see this stuff not to mention the black players on this team and and all you know roger godell has told stories about defending his gay brother from bullies in the past and there was there was name calling in that there's so much that goes into this. That is so crazy. But one thing that I've seen that is so interesting

to me is there was reports that the league brought this to, you know, Mark Davis on Friday. And he still showed up and he still coached Sunday. And then Gruden resigns on Monday. And as much as I want to say, like, yes, this team is so forward and so great, I do find it interesting as how Gruden resigned and how he even coached on Sunday. And I just, I just find that very peculiar. I wonder, because Gruden, now that we have the benefit of hindsight, Gruden alluded to the Roger Goodell thing, which seemed kind of random at the time, Greg, on the way to the airport, yesterday even kind of said, that was random that he brings up Roger Goodell as if to say, hey, listen, it wasn't just D. Smith that was getting it. Well, that was all calculated, as it turns out,

because he knew this was on its way out. I wonder if he thought, okay, I'm probably going to get killed for this Goodell thing, too. But I heard the reports out that the league is not going to fire me. As of Monday morning it was being reported or late Sunday night that he was probably going to be okay. The league office was probably not going to do anything serious in terms of suspension. I wonder if they thought, oh, we could handle this fire and completely misunderstood how this was going to come off. Right. The league wanted Mark Davis to do it for them.

which makes sense on some level but they just wanted him to take care of it and feels like Mark Davis obviously was surprised by this and he took the couple days and I think there's also legal ramifications of whether he you know contract ramifications of whether he's resigning or whether he's fired

and whether it's for cause and all this sort of stuff and yeah they probably gave him the weekend basically the New York Times or something and then it and then the rest of it comes out And they force his hand. It's crazy. On the brighter side, though, Mark will win some sandwiches. So, I mean, that's...

Yeah, let's... Wait, put a stick a pin in that. We're going to close the show talking about that. Ricky, and as a gay woman and as anyone else that has... Was really taken aback and insulted or hurt by what was in that email. I guess you could take, you know, they let him coach on Sunday. Now they're getting heat for that. And the team no-showed.

They lost anyway with Gruden. So that's one last. note connected to that. All right. Well, the Spicerack would say that they're going to win this week, that when coaches get disgraced and fired, that the team always responds, according to the Spicerack, college football, NFL. He believes that the fighting Blasachias are going to go to Denver and really give a great effort. That often happens. I don't think that's the case with this Gruden situation is a little different than firing a tired, you know, one in 12, non-creative coach.

that players don't relate to. Gruden had supporters in that building. And that's also, you're telling half the story, Greg. I won't say specifically. This is the second part of the story. I know. He would have said to pick against the Raiders Sunday. And now he would have said, go with the Raiders this week.

So yeah. Greg shared it with me going into the weekend that when there's heat around a team on a sensitive subject, Spicerack also has a separate rule. You got to go against that team when there's heat in the locker room, potentially, a hot button topic. He was right about that. And now you have to trust the spice rack if you're a desert person because the Raiders are going to be fired up under Rich Basatia.

Let's hit Monday Night Football right after this. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that?

Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative. and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody?

Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from Scouting Reports and player development To team building philosophies, coaching trends in how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year.

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Ready to dominate your fans. fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast

on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Jackson takes the snap Looking over the middle Pumps once throws Zessler's back

Drama game over The Hayes in the barn And the Ravens have won it in overtime No Lamar Jackson throwing spirals That are talking about John Gruden

Disgracing himself And his family including Deuce Gruden Who's still on the staff Ravens win 31 25 Ravens 31 25 in overtime

They were down 223 in this game It was over They were down 259 in the fourth quarter It was over Only It wasn't over Because Lamar Jackson Had the greatest

Passing day Of his life He went 37 of 43 For 442 yards And four touchdowns And March the team back with three touchdowns, 16 points, two touchdowns in the fourth quarter,

and then the walk-off touchdown on the first possession of overtime. And Mark, this game was bonkers. First of all, we're going to get to the cults because that's a stomach punch loss. It's one of those stomach punch losses, and Frank Reich's a really good coach and a good motivator, and he's got that locker room tight. But some losses you don't bounce back from,

even if you're in the AFC South. And I just wonder how the team reacts to that, to fall to 1 and 4. But on the Raven side, I think, just the comeback, the way it unfurled in the fourth quarter, like just like the fact that they throw touchdown pass to Mark Andrews, then a two-point conversion to Mark Andrews, then another touchdown pass to Mark Andrews, and then another two-point conversion to Mark Andrews, and then get the ball on the coin toss, and the Colts came and put up a resistance.

It just, it was a done deal once Jackson got rolling, and you can't pay a better compliment to him than. and he was completely unstoppable when the game was hanging in the balance. Yeah, and, you know, Harbaugh called it one of the greatest performances he's ever witnessed. And I don't think that's hyperbole on any level. And I was watching this, you know, as a Browns fan. But at some point with the Ravens, you just have to give it to them for who they are. To me, they feel like a team of destiny.

And I think it's because they're led by a man of destiny and Lamar Jackson. And you look at their week two win over the Chiefs. You look at the Justin Tucker field goal against the Lions. And you look at what happened last night, a game that seemed completely out of hand. The Ravens, really, I think the story would have been, had that just kind of finished in a different way, that the Ravens are finally crumbling around some of their injury issues and stuff.

But instead, Lamar Jackson, and I think there was a part of me, and I don't know if, I'm sure you felt it a little bit, that once they got going, for me, I've seen too many of these prime time games, go completely out of whack and turn into a star vehicle for someone like Lamar Jackson. I was like, they're winning this game. And I did not say that, you know, like with two minutes to go. You could just feel the tide turning. And the Ravens are a team that when they're clicking, their Mark Andrews, their Hollywood Browns, their star players are just simply a higher class than a team like the cults. And they turned it on. And to me, what happened? Like

Colias Campbell, you know, essentially changed that game. That guy is 35 years old. foot eight and a complete game changer and a perfect signing and it shows you who the Ravens are. I look at this team and I just say, look at, I realize they are not potentially as talented as the chiefs on some level. They might not be as

Nouveau-Riche as the Chargers are at this point. Everyone's in love with Brandon Staley. I told you that in January. I leave for three weeks. Everyone's got a huge man crush on him. That's a whole different story. But Lamar Jackson and me, I was like, what does this remind me of? And I know that we draw this comparison almost to

a tired extent. But it was sitting in my living room in the 90s as a high school and the college person watching Michael Jordan get into a billion fixes. And every single time you're like, you know this is going down to the last minute. You know that he is going to take care of whatever adversities come his way. And Lamar Jackson talked about entering into a state of total calm in that game, that the players around and believe it, that Harbaugh basically, you know, two weeks in a row is saying, we're going to go for everything. And it's because of this one player, and he came into the league, completely doubted, and I think it's a perfect season for him to cap, you know, this entire thing with a Ravens journey that no one's ever

expected this season. I mean, they've been a little bit overshed out. Doughted entirely. Even weeks ago that he's been figured out. And, you know, you look at their running backs. They ran for like 25 yards last night. Had we known that four weeks ago, you could have projected a Ravens team that just was going to crumble in on itself, but you cannot, when you had this talent inside this locker room and on the field, LeBondon. Lamar Jackson is everything the Ravens could have hoped, and there's literally no ceiling for where they could wind up as a team. They're not a perfect team.

We shouldn't have said that they're crumbling if they had lost this game to the calls, and we shouldn't say they're a perfect, you know, a fixed, complete team just because they keep scraping out these wins. They remind me the 03 Patriots, and Lamar's starting to remind me of early career, Brady, where every game comes down to this insane ending. Everyone thinks they're lucky, and everyone can't, you know, believe quite. that they manage to lose the game and they can't figure out how and why. And, you know, the reasons the quarterback usually and the coaching because of these margins

and they make their own luck. And it's almost like the Ravens have went into this season, Greg Roman and Lamar, and they went through every checklist of criticism that Lamar had as a passer. And they were like, our goal early in this season is just going to be to shut everyone up about that. Like we can't play from behind. Okay, we've done that three times now. two from huge margins again, you know, in prime time.

Lamar can't win from the pocket. Like last night, those weren't easy throws to go 37 for 44. Those were a lot of tight window throws. Almost all of them were from the pocket. Even like the winner to Marquis Brown, like that's kind of a typical throw in that scenario where it's like it had to be exactly on point. It was on point.

And then it was like, well, he's only really can throw that well because they're so good and the run sets it up. Their running game is stunk this year, other than Lamar. Lamar's eighth in the league and rushing, but they haven't done anything running the ball. They are one of the past heaviest teams in the NFL, and they're great on offense. So it's like they've gone through every checklist.

Lamar is doing that individually. The rest of the team needs to catch up, and then they could be really special. And, you know, the, yeah, the Brady parallels, we'll see. We'll see about that because Brady came out of gate winning big games when it mattered most. And they're obviously very different physically because, for instance, Lamar Jackson accounted for 499 of the 523 net yards. I just mean the other teams being like, what the hell happened here?

No one thought that Patriots team was any good until they actually won the Super Bowl. And I, he's been, see, we're talking Lamarx. That's what this is about. Like, he's such a unique player in the history of the league, the recent history of the league, because he came in number 32 overall. um the fifth of uh the quarterbacks drafted in that first round i believe that was the mayfield darnald rose in uh josh allen draft and uh he takes the league by storm in year two wins the MVP um has these disappointing january outcomes that have cast a lot of doubt on his ability to be a big time player but then you have games like last that game the primetime game against cleveland

last year and now this game where like when the lights are on and everyone watching he plays at his best so it's just kind of it's strange to put that this version of jackson who's unreal when everyone's paying attention to the performances we've seen in january where he and the baltimore offense have been so vulnerable so there are demons to slay for jackson that he won't get a chance to do until january but i don't think there's any question barring injury that they're going to be there and maybe as the number one seed in the afc as high as that or as the defending champion of the AFC North or the new AFC North champion

because that's the ceiling he brings to the team. And I thought that was just a reminder of his greatness, which is kind of unique in our league. Yeah. And I mean, when you think of the Ravens, like there's this innate trust if you've been watching their consistency since they came into the league way back when.

And I just look at this team. And, you know, look at it's weeks. We're entering week six. A lot can change. everything can change but who couldn't the ravens beat in the afc and why wouldn't we look at them and say that they're built mentally they're built mentally the coached to quarterback are annoyed we haven't mentioned them yet as like fine bill but the bills the bills i mean the bills are number one of the power ranks for me i love the bills but you can't tell me that the ravens can't beat the bills

in orchard park in a big spot because i could see it they could beat anyone i mean they and you know what Peyton manning was dogged for years about like not a playoff winning quarterback he's shiny he's year season. Think peace. We love him. But Lamar Jackson simply will knock down those bowling pins at some point because he didn't lose those games for him on his own. That said, you look at that Chargers game from a couple years ago, he got totally unplugged. So the Greg Roman, Lamar Jackson, yeah, they're going to have to find a way to come up with new surprises. He was a rookie quarterback. We're seeing this year what it's like for most rookie quarterbacks who step into the lineup. No, but it's not just his rookie. There's last year too.

No, I know, but that he's saying that's a thing. That's a fair critique. His January performance that he's going to have to deal with. But to Mark's point, yeah, Peyton Manning, nobody says that anymore. But for years, that dog, Tim, five or six seasons before he finally got rolling. The game-winning drive, though, to me, was amazing because it wasn't spectacular. It was just him in the pocket picking out the right mismatch every play, you know, second or third read very often. It was all from the pocket. There wasn't a lot of spectacular plays on that specific drive. Like, Mark Andrews is, you know, he's been dogged. I mean, talk about not showing up in the playoffs. Mark Andrews in the playoffs turns into John

Smith on the Patriots. That's what Mark Andrews has been in the playoffs. And he was making incredible catches last night. Markis Brown is on pace and I hate this because of the 17 games, so I don't even know what to say on pace. Let's pretend that season was still 16 games. Markis Brown's on pace for almost 1,500 yards and Mark Andrews is on pace for about 12 to 1,300. That's the type of passing game. That's the thing that's crazy is that they're just like a totally different style of offense. You take out those three drops by Brown to weeks ago and he has been outstanding this year he's been everything they ever wanted him to be

he's really he's really made the leap and you know on the other side of the ball that yes indy could still bounce back and if you want to if you want to try to be positive he said okay carson wence man i thought he played well in this game uh they moved the ball they they really dominated this game in a lot of ways uh for the better part of three plus quarters uh but this is one of those losses that you know and any diehard fan um knows what i'm talking about when i say that this when your team really really blows one and it ruins your day or your night you go to bed and you wake up in the morning and then like within seconds you remembered what happened and it's like getting punched in the stomach again terrible feeling that's every colts fan uh in this country

and beyond because i mean given the the spotlight game the island game that given what it meant to get if they got to two and three what it could have meant for their season uh to let it all slip away And it reminded me, Greg, you know, yeah, all do credit to everyone on the Baltimore offense on that last possession in overtime. But that was like Super Bowl 51. If they call the wrong heads or tails, and I think it was Wentz that called heads goes tails, it's over. Once Lamar got the ball to start, that defense was a mix of being gassed and not being

coached up by Matt Iberfluse because they had no way to stop the Ravens on that last position. What happened, by the way, on that coin toss? I mean, I, you know, there was no, like, LSD inside my body or anything, but I swear I heard the cults, Carson Wentz call heads and it was heads and then Baltimore got the ball. I thought it said heads and it landed tails. Then I was, I was spaced out. I saw tweets about it too that people were saying that like, oh, really? It was, I got a bunch of tweets about it, like, you know, but I'll go back and watch that again.

I feel like the Colts probably would have brought this up if it was like, you think they might have. You think they might have. They beat guys. They have one thing to add about tonight's loss. Go watch it again, though. It's something audio wise was odd. It was like a trick of sound. Maybe like it was you actually heard the Ravens.

The Ravens guy say then we got heads. I don't even know. I'm not going to. Yeah, they're fine. I mean, I don't know what the point of the HACC South. The Colts are fine. I don't think so. They're not fine.

Trust me. They're one and four. They're just average. One of the worst games in the last 25 years for their organization. They ain't fine. No, their defense is is pretty mediocre. teams do change. That's one thing the Ravens have to feel great about because I think as much as any team other than the Patriots and the Seahawks, they are usually better

after Thanksgiving when it matters. That's when the season starts. They usually improve the Ravens. They usually figure out their weaknesses. I think the Colts could too, but it's like what's the point of the AFC South? It's just like, as Mark would say, prove me wrong, but they just feel like whoever's going to win that division is going to be cannon fodder in January. And once I'm glad people, people got to see that all the Wentz, you know, critique this year, like, he's been okay. Reich's, he feels more comfortable with Reich. Reich was in his bag, like play calling last night.

They just don't have a lot of juice, especially defensively. I mean, if you knew that Wentz was going to throw for 402 yards with two touchdowns and have the first three quarters that he did, and that that aspect of the story would essentially be buried like it was hidden inside the Warren Commission, you'd wonder what was happening in the fourth quarter. This is a big mark trope is like, if you knew before the game that it would be But has anyone ever brought it up to you before the game and be like, hey, Carson Wentz will have 400 yards in this game. So what do you think is going to happen? Has anyone ever done something else? I don't have those type of forward thinking conversations with people. But if you want to make a case for the Colts, we knew their early schedule was tough. You now get the Texans, a 49ers team that feels like you could deal with them, the Titans, the Jets, and the Jacks. So you can climb back in. But I just don't buy them though. I don't buy them on any level. I buy them as like a seven win team though

I'm kind of with Greg It doesn't matter You know what I mean Like it doesn't matter I mean this would have went a long way Into really spicing up the division race And the Titans are so mediocre That it might still be okay

And they'll be battling it out The two of these teams in December In terms of for supremacy of the South But you know These are Hammondagers When you look at the greater picture of the NFL But sorry to Colts fans Can I tell you one thing

that I honestly affected me emotionally because this person feels like every eighth guy friend I had growing up and he's so nerdy and lovable and I want to just give him a big hug is Rodrigo Blankenship

playing the goat. He's clearly hurt in that game. Roderigo Blankenship if you look him up on Instagram has Rodrigo the Collector and he's like a huge Lego head and sci-fi nerd and he does these Instagram live like hour and a half long chats with fans where he'll just sit at his table in normal clothing.

It looks like he lives in a totally normal house in Carmel, Indiana with his wife, and he just does like nerdy Lego stuff. And it's something about him on a football field. We all get it. He doesn't, he looks a little atypical with the glasses and everything else, and he weighs about 108 pounds. But for him to play the goat, hurt me emotionally. I didn't like that. Don't you remember our Christmas special last December when we dug up his old blog when he was in high school and college where he's just burying his teammates for letting him down in a big spot. Oh, yeah. I don't recall it. Well, maybe he's

maybe he's much more, you know, sinister. On the surface, he looks cute. And this, whatever this injury, he is, he's adorable. Whatever this injury is, and I don't he's dealing with the hip injury. He's like 6-1. He's a big dude. What are we setting up? Well, the injury was Clay as Campbell, but yeah. So like, what are we setting up for a 49-yard field goal with a kicker of the bum hip? Like, what is going with these coaches? That was a conservative moment. I remember that well. They ran

for the first down with a sneak or they tried to sneak it then they got the third and one and then they ran it three times to set up that field goal including on including on third and eight they ran it now that was some that was some uh kevin stefansky uh running on third and long no sorry sorry buddy on sunday when you're in the when you're in the 40s don't be running on third and eight that's all i'm saying no i feel like he got he had like his brain stolen from him because that was a very anti-Stefansky thing. And that brought us, Dan, to 25 missed kicks for the first time in an NFL week since 1987. And I saw Ricky's comment that the kicker club maybe needs to be, I guess it would be sort of shut down. You put one of those huge balloon things over the house or over the

club to kind of eradicate it. Yeah, just the bugs and evil spirits. This week, it was the shit kicker club. It was just, you know, it is what it is. We'll be better. but you know my and it was an all-time record for missed extra point 13 missed extra points again I had this right you know just like Wes had it right about pass interference and Mark you had it right that Brandon Staley's a god and Greg had something right that doesn't pop in my head right now but throw it out there Greg as an example of you being right Lamar Jackson last Lamar Jackson he loves Lamar come on let's move these PITs back to where they were This is ridiculous.

What are we doing? They're missing, they would say, is the point. Exactly. Does it enrich the game to you? They do the hard work of all these men going up and down the field. I was always for eliminating the play. That was what Bill Belichick was for back in the old days, either making it longer or eliminating.

Eliminating it's fine. We're down to 91% PAT conversion. And meanwhile, as we saw, especially if you have Mark Andrews on your team. Two-point conversions have never been easier in our league. I think it's in the range of like 63%. So now it's 6390 and it's like, oh, that makes the game better. And now just go for two all the time. Well, I don't know.

Maybe you do the thing and Matt Money Smith brought it up today. Maybe you do the thing where you just get rid of the PAT. We guys have a show together? We do. Power rankings every Tuesday, 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific on NFL Network. You're still pronouncing your name incorrectly, though, I noticed. And maybe on purpose at this point. We did.

We had a conversation about that on the show today on power rankings, on NFL network 3 p. Years into the show, you're finally tackling that. No, that just make it a six-point score and then you get a chance to go for two and that's it. I think what he said actually is you make it a seven-point score. That's what I said on our show three years ago here

when we had this conversation. No, you were all like, oh, make extra points hard, push it back further. No, if you're going to do it or eliminate it. Yeah, you make it seven and you either keep it or you go for two and you either gain one and lose one. Right. And if you make it, it's eight.

but the idea that a coach would look at a scoreboard, especially these older guys, and take a point off the scoreboard, it's just they would never do that. The extra point used to be when you'd get up and get a beer or you'd go urinate, if you're someone that does that, that's all of us, that you don't even look at the extra point.

And now it's like anxiety-ridden and you must sit there and stare at what chaos is to come. Yeah. Can we flip off Mark saying that whole urinate, that's all of us thing? I really like that. Most do. Maybe you, maybe you did.

did it during the snack time, the food time of the telecast viewing experience. And you need a longer trip to the bathroom. Do you want to elaborate on that mark? No, I mean, I think it's a universal human thing that we all do. But like you wouldn't get up with Lamar Jackson on the 10 yard line. Extra point. Back in the 90s, it was like, see you later, extra point. Right. But I mean, back in, you know, when the, if we're got to go like history, back when it was created, it was like the extra point, you know, percentage was probably like 40. It was like most of them, you know, You know, they have to come off of their construction worker shift, and they're just like kicking it into the line of scrimmage.

Well, to your point, Greg, in youth football, and you know that I played Pop Warner back then, you would run a one-point play. It would just be a play. But if you had someone who was like nine or ten on your team that could kick an extra point, that was worth two because it was like no human can do that at that age. I now combine all the Mark Sessler pre-NFL life experiences into one event. so he was playing Pop Warner in Surrey, England,

and the games were played on the grounds of Camp Happiness on the banks of the Colorado River. The factual jungle, you've totally missed the point there. All right, Thursday night football, let's move to Week 6. Not Camp Happiness. What was it again? No, I think that was Lake County.

Camp Wilderness. I worked at a place called Camp Jewel up in the Berkshire foothills that you've transformed into Camp Hats. I don't think any place can assume that that's what's. they should be calling themselves. And then the other new thing, not that it happens a lot, and by the way, I love having

you back, Mark. Not that it happens a lot, but sometimes we'll be at a social gathering and Cecil will be there. And then my buddy Bob from the throwback podcast, he'll be there. And his wonderful wife, Heather, who I love will be there. And she also grew up in Connecticut and also went to Camp Jewel and her friends went to Camp Jewel. And then it's just like, where's Mark and Heather?

It's like, oh, they've been talking about Camp Jewel for three hours and they're texting people they haven't seen in 27 years. Well, no, she actually, she did an engagement. incredible bit of gumshoe work, she found, she was friends with the sister of one of the most pivotal early life girlfriends that I ever had. So as I was talking to Heather about camp happiness, which is not the name of it, we found it. We had similar friends, and it was this GF from like the early 90s. It was a shocking bit of news. So Heather is a huge ally on that front. It would have been, it would have been cool. Well, if we were in London, if all the people, all the

friends and family you made in Surrey, like, came up and told us, you know, they missed you and stuff like that. Tons of friends. I was two. There was no end of the friendships being built. I missed you, Mark. I missed you so much. All right, we got Thursday night football coming up right after this.

Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my.

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Hit it, Priyanka. There she is, Priyanka, and I know you're something in the city. Yes, Thursday night football begins with the Tampa Bay Buccaneer traveling to Philadelphia to face the Eagles. I don't know, is it just me? Is the Eagles, I feel like the Eagles play a big-time team almost every week. Tough schedule early on it seems. But the bucks four and one.

the bucks are doing what we expected the bucks to do and my favorite stat of 2021 was on the plane we had a 10-hour flight from Heathrow to LAX yesterday and

that's a long time that's a very long flight and we and I just cranked out for six and a half hours power rankings 3,400 words I read like the entire internet in my preparation for it. And the stat that I loved the most is as follows from a gentleman.

Hang on. I'm finding it. Greg Alman of the Athletic, formerly of the Tampa Bay Times, in his write-up on the game. Sunday marked the sixth time in 25 games with Tom Brady that the Buccaneers have scored 44 points or more. The Bucks had scored 44 points in just six times in their 44 seasons before Tom Brady's arrival last year. Oh, by the way, Tom Brady is 44 years old. It's mystical, Mark, what Tom Brady has done in Tampa Bay. But that's that six times in 25 games, 44 points. The previous 44 years, the Bucks had done it six times. That was a Super Bowl team in there and some good playoff teams some bad teams too but that is bonkers yeah i mean we talked about 40 on the reg a year ago

and that became um essentially true but it's like you don't trust teams necessarily to carry over who they are on offense from year to year but you do with tom brady in this whole situation and now they get the eagles they had a couple downish weeks offensively uh that had a little bit of you know people i i mean some concern you know you only put up 19 in foxborough and and you lose that game convinced me. And a driving rainstorm. They're just ridiculous. We've seen what this Eagles defense,

which was very frisky last week, played great, really won that game for them against Sam Darnold. But we've seen what they do against the best offenses in the league. Like most defenses, they just, they get run over. They get, they lay down. I mean, the Chiefs scored a touchdown in every possession but won against them, and the Cowboys walked them up and down the field. And Tampa is, you know, there's every reason to believe.

that they'll be able to pinpoint mismatches. And so then you're asking Jalen Hertz to try to keep up. I want him to play a little more, hurry up. That is best in that. I still hear that like Nick Saban thing that Peyton Manning talked, that he said in the Manning cast of like, why doesn't every team play hurry up like all the time? Because it really sucks for defenses.

And when Jalen Hertz plays hurry up, they are a lot to deal with. They are like the one team in the league though where it just feels like they pass so much, even though they're so good at running that it blows my mind a little bit but this is a matchup where the bucks because they're so good stopping the run,

it's just like a pass funnel and then most teams don't even try to run against them. I'd like to see them try though. The Eagles are the number two team in the league in terms of passing in neutral situations. The chiefs are the only teams that pass more. And yet they're fifth in the league in yards per carry.

They have a good running game. They have these big guys up front and they have a great running quarterback and they haven't really integrated it. Maybe this isn't the game to do it, but I feel like that's the only way you could try to keep up here is slow it down a little bit. I don't know if this is the game, though, at all.

I mean, if there's one opponent, one defense in the league that you look at and say, we can try. Surprising for once. No one's even trying anymore. Well, that's fine, but there's a reason people aren't trying, too. I mean, they gave up negative one yards rushing two weeks ago and 39 against the dolphins. And I get that the dolphins, you know, you've got Jacoby Brissette in there.

It's a tough situation. But they were also eight for 11 on third downs. the bucks. They had the ball for 37 plus minutes. They're dominant. And you look at the Eagles. And I thought actually that was an incredibly resilient second half and had a lot to do with their defense. But Hertz, you know, like they had 13 yards of offense over their first seven drives, the Eagles. It took them a while to shake out of, you know, their slumber. But I thought that Hertz down the stretch, asked to make a couple big throws, had a big one to Dallas Goddard to help set up the win, and then an incredible two-point play where he threw it to

the back of the end zone to Devante Smith. And Hertz just does it all. I mean, I know that some of these games, like he's not looking, you know, like Lamar Jackson in terms of the overall functioning offense. But I understand, like, it feels like the Eagles are still in this referendum period with Hertz. And I think in 2021, he does a lot for you. And he keeps growing every week. Their offense is not the same as Tampa's on any level. But I think it's their defense with Darius Slay, who wrote up last week. Javon Hargrave, who's playing awesome right now. I mean, it's the same old thing.

You've got to try to get it up. I'm not locking this game on any level. I'm not totally psychotic. If you're an Eagles fan, you really take positives out of Sunday, because there was some questions starting to percolate in Philadelphia about Nick Siriani, if whether this team is disciplined enough under him, if they have their poop together is another way to put it. And then in the final five games against the quarter,

quality Carolina team. We don't know how good the Panthers are, but they're pretty good. They get a block punt. They get a touchdown drive on a Hertz touchdown run. And then Stephen Nelson picks Sam Darnold to win the game. So that's positive. At the same time, now you get a short week. I know you get to stay home and that's good.

But I don't like having a deal with this Bucks team on a short week when you're kind of a middling middle of the pack team. Now, I'm not going to lock it up. The mirror test, it is on the edge of the mirror test. it's the desert says this is seven points yeah so um i don't do seven i don't do seven okay so then nobody can lock it up but uh i'll say this this is interesting richard sherman who you may or may not be aware is now on the buccaneers because you know why not just collect all the stars even if they're past their prime but he approached uh leonard for net for net at halftime on sunday

or against the dolphins even before the game was out of hand but i think everybody knew it was going to happen. And Richard Sherman, who was a member of the Legion of Boom, of course. That 2013 Seahawks team was one of the best, I think, of this century so far. And he told Leonard Fortinette that he'd never been part of a team

with so much talent. And Fornett responded, and he told the media, that's how we know this. This is different. That's what he said about the bucks. And that's what I think that the Eagles are going to learn. I think this is a double-digit blowout type situation. Yeah, I tend to agree. And

hurts maybe makes it interesting late but brady just eats his own coverage now and that's all the eagles do your boy lennie that you're talking about he's running great he is uh i don't know you you know i don't have an opinion on one way or the other told the story of them i've never seen him look as good as he has the last three weeks even early in in this career i don't think like maybe that you know being around all-time greats makes you better funny how that works. True, true, true. All right, so check that game out. Colleen Wolf. I think Colleen would have been on the show today to preview the game, but now she's doing the split-ends podcast with Ricky Hollywood, and now Connie has to make some hard decisions. So in an indirect way, our own

producer is undermining our show. Your thoughts, Erica? Incredible. Yeah, I disagree with that. I think originally we weren't going to do a show, and she had planned otherwise. And then, you know, with this news. We changed it. So, you know, scheduling sometimes can get in the way. But to Dan's point, Ricky, like it did tire her out to such an extent that she was unable to appear on our show. Speak on it. Okay. Well, um, is always on the schedule and that was a planned time. Always say, Erica, when in doubt, you could also always just say screw you guys and disappear because your answer was fine. The first one was fair. Yeah. Yeah. We, yeah. Okay. Screw you. guys will she be sitting with tom brady that that is something that i thought about um earlier today

you know it's who which i don't know tom with her he's tom i don't think is tom doing thursday night he like doesn't yeah doesn't do that it'll be like gronk might play by the way dallas gardar got covid so he's on the covid list so he might that would be amazing might maybe maybe tom does a solid what about gronk and tom you do gronk and tom together right no gronk and tom together right no Gronk does Aaron Andrews after the game, but he won't come out to the podium. You can't do Antonio Brown because he's problematic. Grank might not play.

So you basically, you got to hope Chris Godwin has a good day, or JPP, someone that the fans can really embrace. Lenny, playoff Lenny. Tough scenario. John Gruden, out of the league, understandably, and justifiably so. Antonio Brown, a celebrated superstar in the league.

It's weird how things are sometimes, that's all. And Antonio Brown, the youngest player in NFL history to get to 900 catches, and he's like been out for long stretches of time. It's kind of incredible how good he's been the last couple weeks. I could be wrong, but I think it might be in terms of games played.

All right, so they're not just taking into long stretches of absences. Your point being that he was able to get back. into the league because he's so damn good right it looks awesome right now and maybe like if john gruden had made the playoffs the last three years and they're coming off an afc championship game appearance you know i'm cynical enough to want i'm cynical enough to wonder what if everything would happen in the same way you know what it would all come out whether the information everything could be different like i don't want yeah i don't want to do the i hope not kind of do a you know blind ab test but you know i mean we we had a point on this podcast

where we would have been totally convinced Antonio Brown was done in this league forever. I mean, Chris, you know, Chris famously stopped rooting for the Patriots for good once they signed Antonio Brown. You know, yeah. Like, and like here he is, you know, winning Super Bowls back with the same guy and everyone's just like, he's the same guy. He's not a different guy. Well, we've got new things to be outraged about and, you know, Antonio Brown's in the deep distance. Should he be? Different question.

Those emails were terrible. Well, go read about Antonio Brown. It is a sliding scale. All right. Big Ben? Like, come on. Well, had his six-game suspension reduced to four, and who were they playing in week five, take a guess?

That's another, I'm glad we're hitting for the cycle of Mark. And also, Ricky, just, you know. He's coming back with a bang. I love that story. Just so you know, Ricky, if you didn't mention Big Ben in the next 12 seconds, Greg would have. Yeah, I wanted to beat him. Do we just want to play the game? All right, James Winston.

I mean, do we want to keep going? I mean, there are, speaking of sliding skills. Yeah, yeah, there we go. Before we say goodbye, speaking all the controversy, the fact that the listeners are so into this, it cannot go to the episode without bringing it up. I mean, Mark Sessler. You know, when you think about the sandwich game, by the way,

I think about Mark and I think how he's last in the standings. But that doesn't matter. He's kind of like, to use a baseball analogy, the true three outcome type hitter where it's like yeah he's going to strike out a ton going to walk and he's going to hit a lot of home runs

and Mark's going to run into one every once in a while he sure did here because Mark I'll set it up here two of your sandwich props one made this at the beginning of September a coach will resign during the season boom shakalaka

he resigned not fired and he gone The mark was rooting for something like this to happen. Well, not just that. You might get two coaches, by the way. You've got a long way to go on Urban Meyer here. And not just that. A top story involves an NFL cheerleader.

And yes, one of the allegations within the report that doomed John Gruden was Bruce Allen, area slam ball, sending photos of Washington cheerleaders from a calendar shoot. To John Gruden, they're part of the story. Thousands of... It's the only reason why we know this story at all. I feel like I got dozens of tweets. People are like, you've got to give Mark this one. Like, I'm the judge.

Listen, some of these things with Mark, some of these ones that were close, they were just that close, and he didn't quite nail it, and we couldn't give him the sandwiches. But there's nothing you missed on this one, Marky. That is also a winner. That's three sandwiches, and you are Joey Gallo, good sir. that's a walk-off. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, when it started to erupt during Monday Night Football, like, my

mentions were going crazy yet the dynamic of making those type of sandwich props. No, I mean, maybe privately I was thinking, this is totally bizarre that this is happening right now and nothing feels real in general. So just tack that down to the non-reality of the whole thing, life. But, like, you can't openly celebrate it either because it's come through horrific circumstances that stuff. It has to be satisfying for your predictions

that came true because someone made like horrible, bigoted, hurtful comments and that cheerleaders were sexually harassed. That's how you spin it. That must be satisfying that you. That's how you spin it. But when I... Did you miss Greg Mark?

I really did. I mean, that's, that was about as Greg a response as you could drum up. I said it at the time back in August. How can you root for this? Well, but when you But you, like, so I guess the other maneuver would be when you're doing sandwich props. It would be, let's just come up with delightfully rose gardens, delightful spreads of good news. But I can't, you know, I can't control what I spent the night before coming up with two or three things that stuck with me.

And then I dismissed them and they kept coming back. And the cheerleader thing, which really was just a footnote in this report, a terrible one. But maybe not as central as I suggested early on, but you can't control what comes into the mind. Greg, whether it's good news or bad, you know. Your Sestrodamus, Mark, and there's a story. I love Nostradamus. There was a HBO special in the early 80s hosted by Orson Wells called The Man Who Saw Tomorrow.

I've seen that. And amazing. Keep this music pumping, Ricky. And in that HBO special, there's a story that always stuck with me and involved Nostradamus, the famous French astrologer, the stories about his ability to predict the future

were starting to grow and spread from village to village and he was invited to a banquet and the host attempted to trick Nostradamus. He said that there would be a black pig and a white pig and he asked Nostradamus to predict which pig they'd be eating. Nostradamus said the black pig. So then the host, all sneaky light,

all sneaky like, instructed the cook to prepare the white pig. Later on, while they're eating and enjoying dinner, he challenges Nashidamus to state again. Which pig were they eating? And Nashdama said, the black one. So the host all proud of himself calls in the cook and says, which pig are we eating right now? And the cook says, well, while preparing the white pig, it fell from the table and was devoured by dogs. So they had no choice But to serve the Black Pig

Nostodonis knew Mark Sessler Always knows Well, one in the same That's how this works Fixing versus pork All right, good to have you back, Mark Here's the schedule

We're right on schedule Considering, you know, we were just in England Yesterday, there's your Tuesday show We'll be back Thursday With the Week 6 preview show the television shows back as well getting just monster ratings a huge hit all across the world the around the NFL broadcast i have no actual data to back that up but just let's work under the assumption also on sky sports NFL on saturdays um same program that right shows uh the NFL game

shows overtime the show we we joined last week lots of great programming i'm slightly concerned that ratings did ratings creep up or height spike while i was gone that would be am i still allow it onto the set for this or have you found a better? We'd rather you have that conversation with our producer. Okay. But yeah, we'll leave it at that. So, yes,

we'll be back Friday at the Telvin Show and then, of course, Sunday night, the recap with the gang back together. Good stuff. All right. Let's go. Dan Hansa signing off for The Quiet Storm. He's back, baby.

The old boss. Ricky Hollywood, behind the virtual glass until Thursday. We'll be back in the studio. He'd the call. Hey, Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies. To evaluate team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it.

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