NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Remembering Jim Brown, 2023 Running Backs Draft and Tybee

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, and Gregg Rosenthal remember the life and career of NFL legend Jim Brown (00:45). The guys take a look at some of the happenings around the league, including Ben Roethlisberger opening up about Kenny Pickett (15:04) and Joe Burrow's next contract (23:00). After the break, the heroes honor Brown by drafting their favorite running backs headed into next season (32:10) and wrap up the episode with a flashback to Dan and Marc interviewing Brown back in 2011 (01:11:52).  Note: Time codes approximate NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. You can think of one fullback who was better than John Kuh. From the Chris Westling podcast studio, it's a round. the NFL. I am. Dan Hansis, I got heroes here. Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler. I mean, yes, John Coon was a great fullback for the Packers. But the greatest of all time,

Jim Brown, who passed away late last week. Mark Sessler, you had the obit up at NFL.com. And obviously, So you have your Brown's history and whatnot. So we're going to get to a bunch of stuff today, including we're going to do a little running back draft in honor of Jim Brown, the greatest back of all time. But curious, your thoughts on the loss of Brown at the age of 87. I mean, I know I kind of hold back from mentioning, like, my own writing and stuff on the show.

It's not like the easiest thing for me to do. But it was the one of the few pieces that I wrote. it was you know these obits are written prior to so that they're ready to go and uh i spent like three or four long summer days um researching like as deeply as i could like all these various elements to jim brown who you know it's almost like where do you even begin because i think he lived three or four completely different lives that all intersected but um it's funny because i heard Gerald McCoy on Good Morning Football talk about the fact that he didn't, when he was young, he knew Jim Brown as an actor.

He didn't, and then his dad had to tell him as a young boy, like, no, this is actually like the greatest football player of all time, who is now an actor, who was also an activist, who also did incredible work for the black athlete in general. And there's just, I think Greg, there was a biography that we almost purchased once that he wrote and like his own story. And it is filled with incredible anecdotal. I mean, there were ups and downs with Jim Brown. There's no question about it.

But the thing I came away with was just that, like, it's kind of crazy that in sports today, just from the sports angle, that we have better athletes than we've ever had in our lifetime easily. And football players are coming out looking like robots and machines. And it's like, why haven't we had 25 Jim Browns at this point? And there's just one. There's literally, you'd have to composite other running backs and athletes together to even equal Jim Brown.

And I know it's easy if you're younger to look at the black and white cut-ups, the tape, and forget that we don't have like today's technology where you could see him from so many different angles in doing things that completely are improbable from a physical angle and that no one ever dominated him. He dominated everyone. And it's like he had the complete and utter respect

of everyone he ever played against because there's no human like Jim Brown. No player like Jim Brown. I mean, I guess that's, but that's how you measure in terms of on the field greatness and then everything in terms of how large of a life he lived off the field.

But we're just talking on the field like that is how you get the name like goat. Like I think there's not much of an argument that the greatest players in football history are Jerry Rice and Jim Brown. And I think you put those in some order. And you could like get in there with Lawrence Taylor or you can start talking about quarterbacks,

I just think in terms of if you judge it based on the errors that they were in and the domination that they had, Jim Brown and Jerry Rice are really the two best answers. And Jim Brown, to me, is the better answer because I'm someone that is more about how truly dominant you were at the time in your peak, not about longevity. And Jerry Rice had all of that too, which is why both answers are great. But there hasn't been another player like him. And you remember, look, he was 30 years old when he retired. And so it seems like he left some food on the table there

because he was at his absolute peak still when he retired. But he was going to go do the dirty dozen. It's like he was going to do a classic movie. And any athlete that's ever tried to make that transition, like Jim Brown was doing it. And he was doing it at a time where he was making a lot more money, not playing football. So it made absolute sense.

But just in terms of what he did, and we can get into off the field, too. But I think Bill Belichick said it, you know, just like he hoped he wanted, and we can get to it. Like, he just hoped that people growing up today would understand what a Titanic figure he was on and off the field. Yeah. I mean, he was such a big, in some ways, complicated figure. And what he did on the field, no one ever approached. He was bigger and stronger than everyone.

You watch those videos. like it is those old NFL films clips of him just dragging people around and how many players used to say it's like you don't tackle Jim Brown you just grab them and hold on until somebody comes to help like he was at that level he averaged over five yards of carry and um set so many records and you know and then it's the same guy that in 1967 um organized the Cleveland summit which was a at the time a huge deal uh which was a gathering of the nation's most prominent black athletes, Bill Russell was there, just watched a documentary on Bill

Russell that really dug into that and how important that was when it happened. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was there. Muhammad Ali was tied into the fight, his fight against serving in Vietnam, and he worked in Los Angeles to work against gang activities in the inner cities, but he's also the same

guy that had domestic violence issues that followed and plagued him and his reputation throughout his life as well. In addition to all the Hollywood stuff, his career as an actor. It's one of those huge lives that crosses over in so many places. And, you know, we, when this podcast was just starting out, and it's like embryotic form when we were the ATL debate club before Greg and Wes even hit the scene,

we would be tacked on to the back of the Dave Damashik football program. And Mark, I know, obviously, with your connection to the Browns, it was a highlight of your career. and it was mine as well because I don't know I still don't know how it happened Mark it was so long ago it was this month 11 years ago

in 2013 we did a 15 20 minute interview with Jim Brown who came into the old studio 66 in Culver City and I wrote this on Twitter like it didn't feel like we actually even had a podcast until Jim Brown was talking to us and I'll never forget like how

you know we were nubes and we're just learning how to even talking to microphones and he treated us with respect. And I remember after it was over, the day wrapped up and we headed, I think we went to Rocco's, and we just sat belly up at the bar and we were like, can you believe that just fucking happened? Like we just interviewed Jim Brown and it was cool

and he respected us in the conversation. It was like completely surreal because for obvious reasons. And I mean, we went back and listened to it. Someone very loyally went and found it because it's not easy to find that stuff these days. there was a old podcast. But listening to it,

like my voice, like literally was like completely different and a big gravelly. I want to hear this now. Well, I think we're going to put it on the back of the back of the show. We'll add it so they can hear it. But, you know, the thing about him was that I thought some of our most interesting like conversation with him in that bit was about Hollywood, about other things.

Like the football part is there. I mean, this is a guy that had 1,500 yards in a 12 game season. He had 1,800 yards in a 14 game. season. Never missed in a game ever. The only running back to average over 100 yard per game in his career. Led the league in rushing yards just while we're throwing stats out there. Every season of his career except one. But he also, that's just insane. No, and like in that, because you know, we dug into football movies and why they're a bit wanting and lacking to say the least. But he was in any given Sunday. And so we just sort of asked about, you know, as an actor,

you're suddenly going up with Al Pacino. And he'd been in a bunch of films by then. But he just sort of talked about how, like, his approach, and you can listen to it, to why he knew he'd succeed alongside Al Pacino was kind of everything about the competitor he was. And some of his best stories from his earliest days were when he was on the Syracuse, when he was in the Cleveland Browns, and they'd go down south. And it was like the hotel manager for the Cleveland Browns would say, well, we have a different hotel, a couple cities away for the African-American members of the team or Jim Brown

would always be like no you don't and then Paul Brown would chime in and say absolutely not you don't split up the Cleveland Browns

were here together but they dealt with that so and to such a degree early on in this career and I think that he I think some of his ire and anger where some of that came from

was the inequality that he talked about from the minute he was born and like other athletes talk about the fact that even when you succeeded early on in your career as a black athlete

that people would just still doubt you because of the color of your skin, but they were like, Jim Brown was undoubtable, and he kind of changed sports for the black athlete forever. And you mentioned lacrosse, because he is like a Paul Bunyan

Babe Ruth type figure, and one's real and one's not. Like, Jim Brown, sometimes it felt like he wasn't even real. He's, a lot of people believe him to be the greatest lacrosse player who ever lived as well. Like, and you think about... He said that was his true love. Right. He loved it more. Can you imagine Jim Brown rampaging on a lacrosse field

scoring 400 goals? You're in your bare legs with like no padding below the belt. A lot of exit velo on those throws. I don't know if they use that terminology there. That book I mentioned was, or that Mark mentioned, at least that I was thinking about it. It was actually a memoir by a guy named James Tobac, who has his own problematic history.

It was called Jim, the author's self-centered memoir on the great Jim Brown. And it related a period in James Toback's life, who became a director. He did that Tyson documentary. That was pretty well known. where Jim Brown and him were living together. And they were just like kind of playing basketball in the yard all the time.

And just like sort of what that was like. And it's about James Brown, but it's about this guy's experience. And it was a very interesting look at like early 70s Jim Brown. And because he was one of the most prominent advocates and activists for black athletes that there's literally ever been until basically his dying day. Like he was working for gangs. in California, like trying to help them out. And he famously, like, you know, he would leave his door open so that the guys could

like come and stay there if they wanted. And he never gave up that fight. And then you did mention it, Dan, it's part of him. And this is what Belichick talked about. Belichick said he hoped that his legacy wouldn't just be remembered for the bad things, for his violence towards women, which was repeated. And that it was so black and white, like all of these great things that he, did in the world and the type of person he was to the people that meant something to him and that

he didn't try to deny I mean he never came to terms with what happened with all of these women over the years and they were young women and they were rape allegations assault allegations you know throwing the woman uh off the balcony which Spike Lee included in that documentary which is a great documentary too and I do think it's it's worth sort of thinking about that that this this person like he was that was both of him. Like, there's no need to, there's no, like, take to have about that. He was that person. And he never, and I listened to Bomani Jones talk about James Brown. It was, it's really good if anyone wanted to listen to his podcast, too. So I'm not trying to bite him here. He talked for 25 minutes

about it. And there's, there's no, like, there's no way to, uh, there's no take on what he was, uh, in terms of how afraid he was to ever come to terms with his violence towards women, because he never apologized. He never took a step back or showed any awareness of all the wrong things that he did. But he still was living all this other life at the same time doing all of this productive stuff. And that was just who he was. And I think to Belichick's point, I don't think all the rest of it's getting forgotten. And I don't think that's getting forgotten too.

It's just like that's that was the Jim Brown story. And that was like a very unfortunate part of that story. and it's a big story. It's like a Babe Ruth type story, like I said. Yeah, violence against men as well. That's one thing he always said, too, is like, you know, he had an issue on a golf course with a friend, he was a very competitive person.

He would get physical, and that was something he struggled with. But their story is huge. It's a huge, he's a huge, imperfect person. We're all imperfect. Brown, no exception, dead at the age of, 87 and that he was on the ATL debate club mark I do remember one thing about that one other last thing about that interview because I think it helped that it was late May that we

had him on the show that there was less happening at NFL Network and we were we were happening that day the car wash wasn't too crowded yeah and so he he gave us a lot of his time but at one point because we you know we I think we were atypical with what we were trying to do and he's like you boys have you got some funny questions like he just sort of like actually It wasn't even on the air, I don't think, but he sort of said after. I think it was after, and I haven't had a chance to go back and listen to it yet, but I will, along with the audience, hopefully. At one point, I think I called him audacious, and, like, he paused and he was like, I like, I like the way.

And I remember it was just like, whoa, just floating out of that building that day. All right. Okay. Good job on the obit, Mark. Yes, Mark. Everyone should check that out. All that work you did years ago is now. out there.

And that dropping, like, on a Friday. Yeah, it made me look like it was, like, absolutely one of the busier journalists at NFL.com that day, which was not totally true. But I had been in the past. We don't need, yeah, we don't need to share it. Like, maybe you were. Maybe you look Friday morning, you looked at it, you crumpled it up and started over. That's why I like to think of it.

It's like she wanted to come out fresh. No doubt. Now we're talking how the sausage gets made. Oh. All right. Let's get to other far less important. news, but listen, this is a round of the NFL. Hit it.

Jimmy Brown as Napoleon Jefferson. Jefferson is any man fighting for recognition against the odds, says Brown. I think I understand him pretty well. All right. The Pittsburgh Steelers. You know, before we learned of the sad news about Jim Brown on Friday,

I had a chuckle internally when I checked in on my laptop when I woke up Friday morning and the top headline at ESPN.com was Mitch Trubisky nearing essential with Steelers and I was like, huh, it's kind of funny considering like the ecosystem there now. And then about five hours later,

this is still before the news of Brown had broke. There was still number one in the stack. It was a slow news day on Friday because Mitch Trubisky is not the future in Pittsburgh, but they like them. They like them enough to keep them around because Omar Khan announced on the Pat McAfee show, and then Ian Rappaport followed up with some more information

that Mitch Trubisky is staying with the Steelers on a two-year extension. He will be Kenny Pickett's main backup in 2023, and he's under contract for three seasons. I have no idea how much money, Gregi, that means. I'm seeing it on a report here that it's over north of 19. million whatever but he is the guy in the building they like him and he's still there yeah they wanted to lower his 2023 cap number and the only way to do that without cutting him would be or maybe even including cutting him would be to give him an extension

but they really do like Chibisky so it kind of makes sense but essentially they don't like putting pay cuts out there because it makes the agents look bad but I'm sure this is it's essentially a pay cut you know masked as an extension but also they got him at a pretty good rate for a backup. And I guess Trebisky's kind of cool. Just like, all right, I like this place. I'm just going to be a backup. I remember his last, I don't know if he came back later at some point via injury,

but he was benched in the middle of the Jet Steelers game last October because he was playing dreadfully. I will defend Mitchabilly in 2020, 23 play. It's a 222 play for the rest of my life. It'll be the least popular or mention take ever. I thought he played pretty well for the Steelers. I mean, I thought he had streaks where I, because I... How many games? How many starts are talking?

Three? He played five games. He started five games. He had some interceptions. He threw four touchdowns in five games. Right. And five interceptions. He threw some interceptions for sure. But I think just play to play, it was maybe some of the best, if not the best,

Mitch Rubisky I've seen. See, you know what's going on. Yeah, what's up? We're getting the next iteration of super milk toast average quarterback that Greg. No. I've always been very anti. As of you, I'm just saying I could see why, like, he's a good backup. Well, I think the thing was a year ago when they were trying to prop him up as he's our starter until Kenny Pickett is ready. And, like, anyone viewing him as a starter, that agitated me always.

But as a backup, totally cool with it. And I think that, you know, he's totally cool with it. Right. That's an interesting part of it. I think he's due 19 million over the next three years, which is six per year, six or seven. No, that's like the backup rate. So it's like he was fine locking himself. I'm going to check PFF.

I swear I did not do this. Oh, and I knew it. I knew they'd be good. Because I got to say, I kind of tend to be on the same page with the PFF a lot of their grade. They have them too high. But he was the 15th ranked quarterback, according to PFF out of 41, exactly tied almost with Kenny Pickett. Should that made some sense to me. Hmm.

I mean, to the eyes. Now, you want picking. He's a rookie, and he's getting better, blah, blah, blah. And to the eyes, I would not put him in the top 15. but I'm saying he played better than he used to play. They had their schedule. It was the fourth start of the season where he got benched. And they were coming off a buy in week four.

And they stuck with Tribisky. I always thought that was interesting because they, that would have been the time where you hand it over to Pickett week four after that buy. But they brought him out for week four and then benched him at halftime. And then that was that was when Pickett took over and he, you know, you know, he was. good. Well, he got better and better as the season

went along, and we'll see. According to Mark, the Steelers with Kenny Pickett will be a potential juggernaut. I believe they'll be a playoff team, because it's like they win nine games when you don't buy into them. 12 is... Yeah, I don't hate it. We'll see what happens. Speaking of Kenny Pickett, when he came

into the league, it was Ben Ralthusberger on the way out. Ralthusberger, you know, has so many records with the Steelers, multiple Super Bowls. And Big Ben, He admitted on his podcast footballing with Ben Rothelsberger that he told Pickett face to face

that his initial reaction was that the QB would struggle and he was being very upfront about being okay with that. I'll be completely honest. I'll be super transparent here and I'm going to get blasted. I probably shouldn't say this. But who cares at this point? I wouldn't say that I wanted Kenny to necessarily fail. But like, you know, when someone comes to replace you,

you're like, you know, I still feel like I had it. Like, my hobby doesn't come, like, ball out. Because then it's like, Ben, who, right? Ooh. I mean, he definitely didn't have to say this, but I guess Big Ben is in retirement mode now and doesn't care. Boy, he's got a podcast, so you need to. This is a smart move, actually.

I don't know. I'm a little concerned that he's spelled footballing, F-O-O-T. Bowling. Yeah, B-A-L-J, L-A-N. I'm assuming he, that's not how he perceives it to be spelled, but he's affectating the words there a little. He is just saying what most people would be in the, in that same situation.

But Greg, I'll just tee this up for you. Go ahead. No, I like a little more transparent. I think that's a human. He even went on about it just saying like, look, it's just like a selfish part of me, you know, probably.

But he was worried. That's him being real. So if he's bringing that sort of reality, I might have to check out footballing with Ben Rothsberg. I don't know. I've got a pretty deep bench of podcasts I listen to. Almost no football. I like the audio.

books. It would be tough for footballing to crack in. But I think it's a human reaction. How about this? A lot of people feel that way. They weren't going to say Ben Who, by the way, regardless. He's going to be in the Hall of Fame, and he's got his own complicated legacy to put it mildly. How about this?

Give it one shot. Okay. Check out the next football. Maybe I'll take the one with Kenny Pickett. That sounds at least like, okay, I would listen to. Although I would say. It's on the show, right? Or is he just talking about it?

You know what? Let us know, because the way he'd. It sounds like he was talking about Kenny Pickett who wasn't there. Can I be? I think Kenny Pickett's there. Kenny Pickett's there. He's absolutely there. I've confirmed it.

As a professional podcaster, I'd love to hear, by the way, first of all, a Pickett said in response. As professional podcaster, I would say maybe a more interesting episode is after this went viral, what has Ben have to say the next step? You have two options and you might or check out two full episodes. We know a couple podcasts that just went one episode and then they couldn't, They weren't able to, you know, craft a second one so that it can go in that direction. I love what he said, because first of all, like, what athlete wouldn't kind of feel that way?

I think some would. I think some are secure enough in themselves that they're not really, like, wanting others. But I think that may not. That might be the minority. I think that's the minority. But you said who would. I think there are plenty of people that it's probably not in their life. I kind of would want my quarterback to not want the next guy come and outshine them.

It's kind of like that you hear about this all the time with. you know, bands and recording artists. You have your whole life, Mark, to record your first and then, what, six weeks, three months to record your second. Yeah, that's a lot of pressure. In other quarterback news. I don't get why that analogy applies here.

Listen, Mark said it earlier and a reference to something else, and I was just adding on to that. That's how this works. Joe Burrow is another quarterback, an excellent quarterback, an incredible quarterback. He is not under second contract yet. He's still on that rookie deal.

It's that time where Cincinnati would hypothetically get a deal done. The Bengals don't have a great track record as big spenders. And now here they have a transformational quarterback just entering his prime. It is time to pay up. Here is what Burrough said in recent comments, talking about his contract situation and also the idea of keeping the Bengals core together of playmakers, some people, many people believe they have the best wide receiver group in the league, for instance. How do you balance getting paid the way you deserve to be

paid with keeping your teammates around you? Yeah, it's definitely, you know, whenever you have guys on the team that need to be paid, that's always on your mind. You want that to be a focal point, and so we're working to make that happen. Bro, deliver those comments one day after the Bengals started phase two, I guess is that a thing? Phase two of team workouts. It's OTAs, 20 teams kicked off OTAs this week. And yes, T. Higgins is there. Jamar Chase. Keeping those guys together, Greg,

feels like it would be a win-win for Burrow and the Bengals. It was really striking doing the projected starters for the AFC North, how long this group has been together on both sides of the ball. Like the top five names, which is Burrow, Mix, and, you know, Chase, Boyd, and Higgins have been the exact same for three straight years on that projected start. series. And then a lot of the defense has been the same, too. And that's just so, by the way, sorry, Ali, you know, if you're out there listening,

the projected starter series. I was way ahead of time. Now I'm struggling. The Tybee trip did not, did not help. We got to talk, Tybee. With your deadline. Yeah, I'm a little behind. So the rest of it is coming.

He's only got two teams in the AFC North. There are four. But the Bengals are well positioned to be the best team with that sort of continuity. And I like, I like that. I would just suggest that you maybe just hit him up on text because I would gamble. Our digital features editor, I'll even put it. Yeah, I would gamble. He's not listening to this episode.

That's true. I did send an apologetic slack. But sending two of the four teams is sort of an apology in itself. You're recognizing that you're coming in not really what the editor is looking for. And to your overall point, looking at the stability of that core, that doesn't last. So there is a ticking clock here. This is my takeaway. Like I know some of them will be back, but this is the year.

And Joe Burrough famously said at the end of last season, our window is my entire career, which I love that. I love the swag that Burrough possesses. And to a certain extent, he's right. But this particular team, which is absolutely championship worthy and nearly did it a couple years ago, just like the Bills. A big storyline in the AFC. I'm not breaking news here.

The Bills and the Bengals have a major crossroad season ahead to get over the hump or else. And I don't really want to hear about, you know, Cincinnati being a mom-and-pop franchise that Joe Burles going to suddenly have to go the quasi-Tom Brady route where you take way less money than you should for big chunks of your career. And he shouldn't. Well, he's not married to Giselle, so he can't lean on someone else's fortune. I don't know what's going on with this. I think Tom did fine. Yeah, but I mean, like Peyton Manning. like they found a way to give Peyton Manning new weapons in waves throughout his entire career.

I think Brady played with less and like he tried to, you know, salvage that with a couple big signings by taking less money, but every one of these quarterbacks are just going to become the highest paid player in the league. I don't, there's no way that Burrow does not. How would you justify that if you're his agent? Right. He, uh, I think he will. And you're right.

If you can't afford Joe, uh, go sell your team for $5 billion. And, uh, then you have a lot of money. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Finally in the news, the NFL. man, we talk about it every year. At a certain point, we should probably just not talk about it anymore

because the NFL onside kick alternative once again stalls in the Senate. No vote expected at the league spring meeting. The Senate. It went all the way to Washington. It went all the way. A lot of commanders in Washington. Tom Pelliserro reports.

A lot of commanders in Washington, D.C. in the Pentagon. I love that we played it last week. I just love Thaisman's circling back. on it and just saying, hey, listen, we have new ownership coming in, and Snyder and me, I don't know if they were boys, but Snyder was cool with Thysman being a major figurehead. This would not be the time to go all Eric Dickerson and just start, you know, taking out the blowtorch, and just like saying whatever you want, Thaisman saying, I'll respect this current ownership group if they want to keep the commanders.

If they say they don't want it, I'll be on that radio show again, burying the name. Well, it's a wise way to handle that. which is not how I've always felt about Joe Thaisman's approach to things that are verbal. Tom Pelliserra reports the NFL owner's table, the Eagles proposal to create a fourth and 20 alternative to the onside kick. So it wasn't voted down, but quote, further discussion needed. Are they just giggling annually when this comes out? Yeah, it's been three or four.

Four straight years now. And Pell Sero capses tweet, the Pell Razor with a long-running debate continues. Is it really a debate? or is it something that the Eagles just need to take the out? Might be that time. It's got some support, and I think it gets like one or two new teams. I want to keep it going. Okay.

I mean, yeah, it doesn't really matter. You could also address the third quarterback again, the other huge news out of the owner's meetings. Well, which is exactly what the Steelers will be doing with Mason Rudolph, who was brought back as well. Covering. They still have Mason Rudolph. Yeah, he didn't get another job.

They brought him back. I was unhappy with the team last year. Thought he should have been the second number two. No team loves their underperforming former starting quarterbacks more than the Pittsburgh Steelers. No need to update anything. All right. They did not approve the commander sale and then we're waiting. We'll update it Thursday is our next show.

I have a feeling they're going to make flex scheduling for TNF will get past. I feel like in the next day or two. and with new restrictions. They're proposing now that you need 28 days notice, so you've got to get a bomb. And you can only do it twice in a four-week span, so it's really kind of almost a test trial

to do it, but I have a feeling that'll pass. Well, that's for fans, too. I still don't like it, though. I still would say nothing is better, but we'll see. Don't need to get ahead of the news. We'll find out. We shall see. Did you want to add something Mark, for we've got a break? It would help if the fan knew that suddenly, hey, game

X is completely shifting day. in time, you know, I'm flying there or I'm not flying there. They're giving them a month notice. You know, that feels It's a ding shot. You ever try to book a flight inside a month? Sometimes it's a little bit of a It's a challenge. I've got to book a hotel. Are there hotels available

inside a month? In urban centers? I don't know. I... Depends on the... I'm not sure if I've literally ever booked a hotel or bought a flight in more than a month. I've exclusively done it last minute, which is a problem

that I'm working to address but it hasn't had a lot of progress. That is a Rosenthal move. And can I just add one more thing about... Can you imagine living with me? More and more we are seeing, I don't know if this is just, it feels that way. But doesn't it feel like in the last,

let's see, in the 10 years we've been doing the show, NFL stadiums have more road fans than ever. It feels like a traveling to see your team there's been an uptick in that realm and other fan bases invading stadiums. It's not just happening in L.A. So, yeah, there's a lot of people impacted by a schedule shifting on short notice like that.

Well, you've got a vastly larger group of fans rooting for terrible teams, and it gets to become, even if they're doing all right, they'll sell those tickets on the secondary marker, which is a little tougher when we were like 10 or 12. You had to, like, stand outside the stadium and try to get someone to buy them. And why is all this happening?

All those 10-year-olds, outside of the stadium. You're with an adult. Tickets for the poor. I got Yankees tickets outside of the stadium a few times. Did you never? Yeah, we did buy the old tickets in the front. Good old days.

I got two. I got two. You selling? Sell it? Got two. Anyway, why is all that happening with the schedule shifting? Follow the money. But you know that.

Take a break. We'll be right back. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now, I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here.

And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else.

It's the kind of conversation that connects the From college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig into coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Flaureo, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Jim Brown, coming to the 40, 45, 50. Jim Brown is going for the score. Ah, yes, the great, iconic Jim Brown, Hall of Famer. in many eyes, although labeled a fullback regularly, routinely called the greatest running back whoever lived.

Halfback back in the day. Half back. It also worked. It sort of covered both. One of the conversation points in the ATL interview, which you could check at the end of the show, is we brought up very original. We asked them about running back Mount Rushmore.

And at that time, coming off a 2,000-yard season, he said there's no-brainer. My dear friend, Adrian. should be on that running back Mount Rushmore. And that's an interesting take. I wonder if Brown thought that 10 years on. But Peterson, I think, in my lifetime, I think, would have been there, is there. But, yeah.

Would be on the Mount Rushmore of your lifetime. Yeah, let's do it. I mean, because Brown's life time, I think. Barry Sanders, AP, or all day. I would put Tomlinson and Falk ahead of Peterson, but I think he would be my fourth. Walter Payton? Well, I'm not cast.

So you're watchable. Yeah, since I, like early 90s. And do I want to put Emmett on there? I don't know. Emmett, yes. What? I mean, not over any of those guys, though. Barry.

Peterson, L.T. And... For me, Marshall Falk is the fourth. I think that's my four. Falk? Oh, yeah. Okay. I watched Peyton, but I didn't watch...

I watched the end of his career, but Emmett Smith absolutely would be a who you're... Oh, Zach Zener. Zach Zener. Oh, yeah. Pen him in there. Penner to Center. Collectively sort of forgot him.

Anyway, on the topic of running backs and Jim Brown, why don't we do a little fun off-season, Segui? Let's do a draft of current running backs. We'll put together... How about this? Eric behind the glass. Let's put together groups of four? Yeah. Yeah.

And then we'll put it to a vote. and who has the best group of running backs? And then based on that vote, the winner gets to gloat and the person comes in there. No, because you can't always trust the votes. I remember we did some exercise like this recently. And I don't know, I think you won and I lost. Right.

So you couldn't trust the vote in that case. Right. I still believe the team was better. Sounds very reliable, actually. Right, right, right. Okay. So anyway, if I win, for instance, I will gloat. If Greg wins, he will not gloat because the vote isn't true to what's real.

Is that cover both sides? I don't know. I might glow it anyways. Okay, good. Sounds fun. Wait, that means, that's what having fun. If we're, if we're doing that, then we got to go snake drafting. Snake it up.

And I'm going to add a respect. And Greg, if you want to disagree, because you're very competitive, just incredibly. So I want to say, Mark, as the longtime Browns fan, Jim Brown, Obit, bit, writer, we can give him the first overall pick. Sure. Let's do it. Why don't we go this way? And this, again, magnanimous, as usual. You could pick second if you want.

Yeah. And I'll take the third pick. Magnanimous, as usual. Like pointing it out takes away. Some say. It's like when you call yourself humble. That has happened recently. I've seen that.

Humble to Jeff. I hate the number three position in this, but I'll go number one. I also, I will say voters aside, like I'm not just, I'm picking the guys that I want on my team, who I like watching. For this season. We should put the parameters. Like, it's right now. It's this season.

It's not their career. It's right now. Right now. Entering September, 2023. That's who we're talking about. This is easy for me. I'm going with the number one pick, Christian McCaffrey.

Ooh, you got a, hmm, from Rosa. When you said easy for me, it is. No, it is, it is. Eichols. Absolutely easy. And, like, for me, watching what happened in a better environment in San Francisco, the way he was used. doubled my fascination with him.

So he's my number one pick. You get him in that Shanahan offense and Marks starts to get a little tickle in the pants. That's not untrue. If you look back, like that draft, he was in, I don't know if these guys will come up later, but Cook, Nixon, like you couldn't go wrong in that draft. But McCaffrey, who was the top one,

has ended up the best. Can I, I'm with you. I'll just pushback's important in this conversation. Yeah. The previous two years are compromised by injury, just something to keep an eye on. and also throw out there. He didn't lose a fumble last season.

So he's trustworthy with the ball in his hands. I'm not going to say he's due to lose them now. Well, maybe there's some of that in there too, but I don't think so. And he had nearly 1,900 yards on the season. He had over 1,200 scrimmage yards and 11 games in San Francisco. Now, is his body going to be able to take that type of usage in another year? That would be my concern, but no one is going to bang on the cess dog for going. It's a totally fair concern, but I kind of want to just remove that from it because, like, if I'm projecting 17 games, he's the clear best player here.

Availability. It's an important ability. It's actually a skill set to have health, yes. Well, I'm also going to be operating on a 12-game season, so there's a lot less work to do. You're out of, you know, there's... Interesting. You got to engage us off season, too, to that young woman. Very attractive.

Olivia, something other? it's all coming together for Christian McCaffrey. He really hit the lottery in life. Greg, the second pick. Danny Mendoza is out there just. Oh, Colpo, right? Missed as hell. You know, the one that got away.

She's great. Our, uh, my number two pick is, uh, going to be Bijan Robinson. And I had some other thoughts, but I want like McCaffrey. And so I, the huh wasn't a, just the way you prefaced it, I thought you were going in a different direction, um, because of, your previous fandom. And I'm going Bijon, though, because unlike some of the other possible options,

like, I just think he's going to be so dynamic on all three downs and, like, it is a passing league, and so that is so important to me. I know his numbers weren't crazy in the passing game of Texas, but I think his skill set is just outrageous. Get the running backs while they're young. I'm happy that he hasn't had any NFL mileage. I know we haven't seen it,

and there's a little bit of risk. There, but I don't think. I don't think it's that big. I really don't. Well, I mean, there is a projection there. We're just, like, let's see what happens with him. But I think he's, he was in my top three for similar reasons. I mean, I don't really care what they're talking about in May. But he has talked about the fact that Arthur Smith, you know, in early OTAs, has sampled them all over the field. And like, you can just tell Tyler Algier, massive admiration for him as one of my guys. I think Beijon Robinson is not unlike a Jim Brown early career type person where he could come in and just be ultra-dominant

and be in an offensive player of the year conversations right away. Right. Like he really reminds me more than anyone that's come out of Tomlinson and Falk. Both of those guys came into the league and were top players immediately. Tomlinson led the league and touches as a rookie. Falk, I think was all pro as a rookie. He had 1,800 yards or, okay, second team all-pro? And I think that's the type of player Bijon's going to be.

Mark Sessler. I don't like what you're about to do here, I think. I've woken up and have chosen violence. Because I know you want it, but you're not going to get it. Because I got Nick Chubb with the number three overall pick. I think, you know, at a time where we're talking about Jim Brown, it's interesting to think that Chubb is

I think a little bit underrated I think it definitely is especially you know the Browns have kind of gone down after they were on the rise there and then you had the Deshawn Watson drama and it kind of just buried everything around Cleveland so Chubb was just off the radar

but he just he's just different like if we're talking about like what Jim Brown was different and he was Like, to me, when Nick Chubb has the ball in his hands and, God forbid, he gets on an offense that's functional with a high-level quarterback, look out. Because he set career highs in all major categories just about. He averaged over five yards, a carry like you know who. He never hasn't. Every season of his career, isn't that crazy?

5.6, one season. So, you know, it's 17 games now, so 1,500 yards isn't quite what it used to be, but still, even in a down year for Cleveland with quarterback. issues throughout the year. He was an absolute stud. He is my pick at number three overall. And I kind of love it. I think I would have taken him at number two if I had the pick. I think it helps them this year. It sounds like they're not going to resign

Kareem Hunt. When you see him on fantasy lists, I feel like Chubb is always lower than the actual player. And what he is to watch he does have little remnants of Jim Brown to me in certain moments the way he runs. Like there's just something about his

violent, aggressive nature. sure. No gloves? Does he use gloves? Well, I'd have to check. I'm not sure if there's a clearance for that in every game. But also, if you go look up like Nick Chubb in-game images, he just looks like a running back that you'd create in a laboratory. He'd completely changed how I felt about the Browns for a chunk of time because of how

Dominie was. He harks back to what that team always said it wanted to be in that division. And he was the manifestation of that. He's not on your team here. It's mine. Right. Well, I... He was my...

Got your ass. You've made me upset because I actually thought... I always sort of historically thought you were a little bit lower on Nick Chubb. No, I love Chubb. I was lower, I guess, on Mayfield. But Chubb was always... That's clear. But like, but this was...

This is a great pick by you. I'm annoyed now. Chubb and Bijan would have been my top two. I couldn't really decide. But... Greg runs away with this if you have Chubb in the same... I'm saying the passing... game you know he's just not quite as dynamic um in the passing game and so that's just like

the tiny knock but he's the best runner i would have said if you needed five yards and your life depended on it he would be my one overall well i'm going to address that with my second pick as we snake around now and i did this was between two players uh but one is more durable um and has less kind of uh injury history uh in terms of reconstructive surgeries on the knees and whatnot Austin Echler is my pick. And don't say reach. You can't say it because you've got to look at the production, which is Titanic. I mean, and Sequin Barclay is the other guy I had in mind here.

But what Austin Echler has done just these last two years, you understand, even though it didn't work out for him, this attempt to get a new contract and even get moved in a trade, he's a victim of the way the NFL. and the decision makers view running backs entering their late 20s. But he's a lock it in. If you want a running back that's going to have 100 catches, he'll give you that, 107 last year. He finds the end zone. Like nobody else in the league, I think, at this point. I used to think it was Alvin Kamara.

Now to me, the guy when he has the ball and he's hitting inside the five-yard line, the guy that's going to get over the goal line is Austin Echler. And you see that in terms of his touchdowns. What is his number? He has some absurd number of touchdowns in the last two years. It's close to 40, I believe. So he's a dynamic. 38, led the league both years.

38. And he even started a little slow this past season. Fantasy heads will tell you. And the running game was a bit of a mess. And then he started to cook. So if you wanted the best all purpose back in the league when you factor in everything, including durability is probably McCaffrey. But if you want to say, well, we factor into durability, I'm going to say it's Echler.

107 catches It's wild I don't know how that slipped Slip past me I mean I guess if part of this is like You're going to Like hard scrabble a defense by literally Putting four of these runners into the backfield

Like I love what you've done because you can do Literally anything with those two players He's my third down back Yeah that's I'm not looking at it That's my hammer Which is why I said reach at first Just because he hasn't had the touch of it Although he has the last two years

276 and 311 I'm not at all I'm being a jerk. I'm being the same way the Chargers are, not giving him that money. I mean, the same way the NFL was, not drafting him, that you see guys that are physically a little more explosive or younger in the case of Bejan Robinson. And you just, I lean a little more there, but you're right. All right, let's go, Greg.

Me and all my friends are jerks. You are up. I mean, that didn't seem fair. Well, this is tricky. See, I could make a pick that I think would be geared towards winning the vote. See, you're in your head now. I am. It's already over.

Because I know the voters, oh, they would like, Sequin, he's frilly. But I don't care. Frily. I'm taking Alvin Camara. Oh, that's a bad one. I trust him more on a down-to-down basis that he can do everything. Are you factoring in a likely suspension that could wipe out the beginning of a season? Well, that doesn't count.

It wasn't this based on September 2020? It's on the Alvin-Kamara of right now, so it's a factor for the Saints. I'm not taking the suspension. I thought it's just like we're taking who's the best at playing football. I don't know, man. He's got some court cases to handle first. Now you got me. You think what we got from last year from Alvin Kamar was the best version?

No, he wasn't his best. And so that is a little bit of a concern coming into year seven. I think just comparing him to some of the other running backs that would be available. You could you could pick little things out of each one of them. And to me, I think Cameras still got one. at least one last truly great season. And when you just look at skill sets of what you want in a running back,

power, as you mentioned, like shocking power inside the 5-yard line when you need it, make you miss. I don't think his offensive line has been helping him out lately. The receiving skills, to me, he is almost the perfect back. He could almost be the number one overall back.

He's not at a coming off like his best season ever, but I still feel good. At the suspension, that's BS. I'm not taking it. Greg, you surprised me. with that pick. I don't totally dislike it, but I would not have gone there now. The real ones out there,

they know. The fantasy people that had Alvin Kamar on Christmas night or Christmas Day 2020 when he scored six touchdowns and single-handedly lifted, and myself included, thousands

and thousands of people to the greatest Christmas gift ever given in a fantasy scenario. I will always have love and respect for Alvin from that standpoint. But since, as you picking him means him, I'm sure. But since the end of 2020, has he, is he a little bit, a little bit less than? I mean, I, if you look at some of the numbers, he's come down.

The fact is he, has he already played his best football? Like, where do the Saints feel about him when you factor in the off the fields? I would also factor in like their quarterback play, like the fact that Sean Payton wasn't there. We're not picking fantasy. Oh, you mean in terms of the last few years. Yeah, the actual experience of Alvin's tomorrow. it's fair and I guess I just look at his career arc and I think he's going to have one great year still left

in him but you're right they drafted Kendry Miller who's kind of a like fantasy wise he would not be up this high like Echler to me was fairly low on my list like not in the top eight but for fantasy he might be number one whereas Camara I sort of would flip him Camara yeah and it's in my head a little bit because he averaged 3.7 yards per carry 21 and last year he recovered a little bit and was better but he hasn't really perform like a superstar for a couple of years, but you're saying it's still

passing the eye test, I think. Okay, okay. Mark, you're up. You got two in a row here. All right. I am going to take Sequin Barclay as my second running back alongside Christian McCaffrey. Look, you could, if I wanted to like argue against myself, it's possible you get both

of my first running backs for like seven games in a season. There is that problem, but I am dismissing that. part of it in my world. And Greg, I heard you just in tone that you think it's over, Mark's going to win. I believe this competition will be made and won in the last two picks. Okay. I think there's probably some people a little down on the Seguan-Barkley five-year journey. I don't know.

I just feel like they're the shiny names. They are. He's still a little too boom or bust for me. I love what Seekon-Barkley did last year, but I want more reliability. And I do think he's not as reliable as some of these guys. I think, again, like I said, it's a question about will he be there? But the version of the player that we saw last year in Brian Dayball's offense with better quarterback play. I mean, finally the whole offense finally awakened from a four-year injury-riddled nightmare.

And we saw the guy that they drafted back in the day. And I'm going with the, like, just going for the ceiling. If you get that, you get the ceiling of McCaffrey, we're rolling. I have regrets. I already have regrets. All right, everybody, pause, pause this draft. Take a break. We'll finish it.

Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my.

We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here.

And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else.

It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant.

And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

All right, welcome back. I'm still in the war room situation here. There's so many different ways I go here. We're going to Vikings view here. I'm going to get, I think I'm going to lose points here because I think, people believe that this player is close to the end. Ah, I know where you're going on this. But I absolutely love watching him.

And I think people, I know when they put this out on social, they're not going to say, like, here's how Mark drafted. It's just going to be like, we don't, we think this guy is beyond the pale, but Derek Henry. Okay. That's my dude. Like, I mean, I just love, he's one of the reasons that I absolutely, um, adored watching the Titans, adored watching their offense, pairing him with Ryan Tannahill.

I mean, this year in that offense, we'll see. But the player itself, Derek Henry, um, we've met. him in person. I thought him to be a very likable, impressive in both his personality and his whole stature. Did that factor into the selection? Yes, because it's like you're going to be working with this player day after day. So, Derek Henry

is my pick. Okay. And I don't really care what anyone thinks. Yeah, I mean, that we don't really have to say anything, but you know, there is a reality where the Titans are a bottom feeder in the AFC. Or he gets traded somewhere and has one more fires. He's

incredible. There's no one like him, but He's a little why I'm not as big on Sequin either, although I have regrets because I think I might have let my Alvin Camara love. You could have gotten him in third or even fourth round. I affect me too much. I could have gotten Seekwon. It was maybe a little more explosive right now. But the reason I don't love Sequin or Henry is I'm not like, I love Henry,

but it's like one, one, one, one, three, seven, 21, or whatever. And it's like, I don't like all those ones. The old Barry Sanders logic. A lot of ones. I mean, at this stage of his career. Yeah. That said, there's literally no other player. I remember a lot of things that weren't ones from Derek Henry.

That's what I mean, but it's like a slow build and then suddenly. Then he runs through seven people. Does he have? That's a great point, Mark. I would, you know, I would ask, does he have the same burst that he had a couple years ago for the foot injury? I don't know. I mean, I think, like I said, I think he's still the same player. When they look at my list, I think there'll be people that they'll think that Derek Henry was drafted by someone that didn't maybe watch Derek Henry play.

Yeah, but you've got a lot of star wadage here. Right. Yeah. I just believe in him entirely. I think your team's looking good. It's kind of under the radar. He had the second highest yards from scrimmage of his career last year. Was a better receiver.

Led the league in carries again three out of four years. So that's a concern that he might break down. But it's not like he wasn't productive. He had 1900 yards from scrimmage last year. That's crazy. I think it's a solid pick mark. I do too. Are you okay with the input and the analysis if it leans positive toward you?

I definitely am. Yeah. When it does that. Yes. Greg, you have to somehow salvage this. See, it gets a little. You're kind of a, yeah, you're in the weeds right now. I'm not.

You guys are acting like Alvin Camara as some sort of bum. I'm taking Jonathan Taylor. I want a big playmaker off the ground here. Let's go. Oh, man. What? You're spinning, dude. No, I'm happy with that.

He, uh, yes, he's coming off one of the more disappointing follow-up years to a truly great breakout year that anyone can remember. But I'll go, I'll give you some pop on this one, Greggy. Like if, if the line is better, if your quarterback Richardson is out of the, out of the box, a player, could Taylor regain his form? I think he's like 25. He's 24 years old. He had 2,100 yards and 20 touches.

just two seasons ago. His production last year was about the fact that he missed games primarily and that his team stunk. And he wasn't popping quite as much early. I think he got better as the season went along. He's a good receiver. He's not a great receiver. But in terms of a ceiling here, I'll take whatever his odds are to lead the league in

rushing this year because I know they'll be somewhat long. And to me, he's got a pretty decent chance. to leave the league. I like it. He probably would have been my next pick, too. And I think last year's cults made it easy to forget about anything any of them had done the year prior. I mean, it was just such a chaotic soup of terrible play. And the line crumbled. It was a year ago, we all thought they might be like an AFC title game contender. And I think back now with Shane Steichen, if he is what we think he can be as a coach, Anthony Richardson, like, there's so, this is a completely different offense

and a better line play and Jonathan Taylor there's no question about the fact that his career is ahead of him, it's a solid pick. Yeah, but my offensive line is awesome. He's not playing for the Colts. We're removing them from you know, consideration

to the team around them. People when they see these lists are not going to understand what's happening. You kind of have to think how people are going to think about. I'm not worried about the people. The people, I dare you to vote for me. No one's voting for this team. and screw you all. Well, you're attempting to run

psychological tricks on the people. I think this is a classic spin-out. It's a classic spin-out scenario going on. It's a car crash. I have a, I'm in a tough spot here because I'm kind of caught between because we have, speaking of people I personally enjoy,

I like to have an Aaron Jones on the Super Bowl week podcast. Yeah. I like him as a player. He does have, versatility um first guy to be

discussed at length but maybe not being picked you have two picks by the way I do and uh you know and then there's Josh Jacobs and Josh Jacobs is the rushing champ and that means something right hell yeah I think so

tangible proof of ability he was really good last year too two years in a row probably the question for most everyone he was every bit as good as his numbers were you know that's why that thinking ahead front office declined

his fifth year option before the season they knew what was coming but if these are the only two you're debating just pick the two yeah well it's not that simple Gary but I will go ahead and pull the trigger on Josh Jacobs

you sound more excited about him not that excited Just because, you know, there's a reason also why the Raiders declined the option. And he didn't, even though he's a first round pick, he wasn't really shaping up as a special player. But he was absolutely dynamic. I almost wish everybody's talking about now that Devante Adams spoke out against the offense a little bit. Maybe he'll be moved. That seems like a non-starter because of the dead money involved and what a mess that would be for the Raiders after the fact.

Josh Jacobs being used and getting 340 more carries on this Raiders team. Does that excite me? Not totally, but his play was so good. He had so many huge runs, game-winning runs, walk-off touchdowns. He was everything you want out of a featured back, three-down banger, and that's why he even gave him something out in the receiving game. 53 catches 400 yards. Great receiver.

I will give Josh Jacobs, my pick with number three. And number four, yeah, I could now. I mean, logically, that makes sense that I would then just pivot to Aaron Jones, but I won't because I want to have a little wild card in here, too. And that's why Breeze Hall. I knew you were going to do it. Is my final pick and it's a total homer pick. But I want you to go before the knee injury, check that game tape of those final weeks before the injury. You will not find a more electric running back in football.

He, as much as Zach Wilson's failures last year. and the offensive line injuries, his absence is really what ruined their season because he was just about to take over. He would have been rookie of the year, not his teammate, Garrett Wilson. And there's a projection here coming off in ACL and we'll see his availability and all that.

But I am willing to roll the dice and put my faith in modern medicine, Breece Hall, absolutely explosive and exciting. And that's where you go with your fourth pick. You've now snatched away two players that I wanted because of how much you like them. And I'm with you with Breece Hall.

It's always good to hurt your friends. Also, I think it's a good team planning. You've got a young, young player who'll be around for years and a head on a four running back football team. Thank you. With no other positional. I have a banger in Jacobs.

They just play each other. So who's playing defense? I guess they got to play defense too. My team has some two-wayvers. We have not worked that out. Defense. I mean, I've just said that they're a four four running backs, just roving the countryside,

looking for competition. Basically. All right, Greg, close out your nuclear disaster. Shoot. I really was spinning out because, like, I kind of wish I took Jacobs because no one was going to take Taylor anyways, I don't think. Or you weren't. You could get James Conner here, Greg.

Wait, just, I don't know, this will make Craig feel better or worse, but I wouldn't have taken Camara or Jonathan Taylor, period. Would you have taken either of them? I would have gone Jonathan Taylor with my next one. I didn't think about the whole strategy. I have inside information. I've done some reporting. Okay.

Sources close to Mark's computer, which I can see. Oh, my God. That's not. Some say on tour, but also that's gamesmanship. Cheating would be another way to look at it. He has this, first of all, I think he was blowing smoke up you with the Breece Hall. He was a little lower on his list. He was blowing smoke up me?

Yeah, you know. Oh. Well, my bad. Bad reporting. You are. You're going to spy a train wreck right now. I think it's making for good podcasting. My point of this whole preamble was to be, Mark and I had the exact same names next anyways,

which was Ramandre Stevenson and Aaron Jones. And I hadn't decided which of those two I wanted to take in my mind yet, but we had the same next two up. But I'm going to take Aaron Jones. He was an affable guy. And I do think back, and maybe we'll get to. Tybee here. I do think back to Wes's impressions of Aaron Jones that he just thought he was such a natural, explosive

runner. And again, Remandry is going to be a better fantasy pick. Remondry's an amazing player. I like them both a lot, but just in terms of the quality that Aaron Jones has put out year after year after year after year, that's actually what makes a great running back and we know he's not wearing down. I don't think he's gotten

worse at all and he's kept fresh because of the way that they've used him. He is the modern back that the defense does not know what they're going do on a certain play and he can do anything. So if I was building a team, I truly would take Jones over Remandre, even though I love the both. And there's the other

Aaron's gone in Green Bay. That gives me a little bit of pause about how that could negatively impact their running game and I don't get to worry about that on my team. Right. I guess we look at it from different perspectives, obviously, but that to me matters in terms of what kind of

production will have this year. But it's a good pick. We're just out there. I'm like Mark Malone, Nuggets coach. Nobody believed in us. No one's talking about us. We're going to roam the countryside. He's going to win the championship though. You are not winning anything here. I'm going to leave here and completely

forget that we created this list. This is going to be a Greg internal think piece for like the next 24 plus hours because I can tell you're affected by what's... But Jones, you did, you landed the plane with just a touch of dignity here. It was fine. That's good. The only thing I made a mistake was strategy way. I wasn't really thinking what you guys

were going to do, you know. I look at your list, Greg, and I, there's, you know, it's got its qualities. I just don't even know who you're, like, number one guy is, to be honest. It's the guy I took and was going to take first overall, Bejan freaking Robinson. That's fine, but I mean, you would have taken Kyle Pitts if we did a tight end derby a number of years ago, and you just never know how. Don't be silly. You had them in your top three. You just never know how it's going to go. It's all, you know. All right, close it out, Mark. All right. I do find this to be kind of a soup down here because part of me you're in a tricky spot well i mean it's you know i can't really lose this year but like travis etn is very interesting to me tony pollard kenneth walker uh but i mean

i am going to go remandre stevenson um we keep dipping into like what he's going to look like in that offense in new england but i don't think that matters um no i i love watching him last year and i think he's he has a chance to be like yardage wise top five top four i i think it's a You can make a pretty good argument. Remandry Stevenson was a better running back than Brees Hall last year when they were both on the field. He can do everything. He can make you make him. Maybe he can't break the huge plays that Brees Hall can, so I shouldn't say that.

But in terms of making people, he reminds me a lot of Josh Jacobs, actually. I think he's a very similar play. Did they let Damien Harris go? He did, yeah. That's also a benefit to this. But the Patriots are kind of an annoying team and the running backs that he's ready to eat maybe and get the touch what he had. 270 180

yards last year from scrimmage almost 70 catches what are the big guys getting like the real dogs like not Derek Henry level but like what do you want from touches plus 300

is that what we're covering? Oh absolutely he was at 279 yeah 350 maybe gets an uptick yeah so all right some guys that didn't get picked before we sign off here

I want to hear about I really like Travis ETN like Travis ETN's a tough omission like if you were going to build a fifth team that was off our omits. ETN would be there.

Wouldn't be on mine, but Pollard? Pollard, I think he should be there. I know he's coming off the injury. Dalman Cook who's still a Viking, but I don't know about Cook anymore. I would not have Cook. I think Cook is...

Miles Sanders. I think Cook's wait and see. Mixing, I feel like, is cooked. Na J. Harris? Dalvin Cook played pretty well. I don't think he would make sense for this exercise, but I think J.K. Dobbins,

now another year removed from that injury, is ready to... emerge. So him and Kenneth Walker would have been on my long list. I got to throw it out there, Mark, just because it was a big to-do on our show. Yeah. Tyler Algeier?

Your guy? You know, if you don't have Bejan Robinson, Tyler Algear could have had massive yardage. But this is kind of a time where he might, he could have used Tyler Algae ear. Algeir. A little life. He is officially your guy.

I'd just throwing him out one of those booey things. What is it the, what is it, the life? This wasn't that exercise. This was the, like, DiCaprio on a piece of wood that floats down into the sea, unfortunately, because he's not, I didn't want to pinpoint, not pinpoint Tyler O'Gio, but he's not in my top four in this thing. No, he wasn't in my long one.

I really, good player, but we have, you know, we only got through top 12 in the league. If we did top 20, is he on there, maybe? I still believe that Damien Pierce a year from now will be in this exercise. What is this? Dan is making an arm motion. Are we taping this for YouTube? It's time. Eric behind the glass?

I got my Oxford blue on. Okay. Smoothed it out. So if for the YouTube viewers, you should check us out around the NFL podcast, subscribe. Absolutely. What was that motion you remember? Red keeps telling people what to do. I mean, every podcast mentions it.

I get that. We never did it in the past. I would, it's like a T. It's a T. It's a T. Oh, yeah. I should have picked up. happy birthday to link wesling three years old and uh and i texted lecisha today that uh three

that's where it really starts to get fun and uh we're they're in in st louis now um so it would be great to see him but he's happy lecisha's happy gregg you know that uh because you were in tiby this past weekend yeah lincoln was the star of the weekend i mean it's It was amazing to spend the time with Colleen came and Kish was down there and seeing all of our friends in Tybee. But I really will remember it as a trip I got to know Link better because I think you're right. Three, you're coming into your own.

Oh, yeah. He's a good hang. Like, he is a good hang. He was there, like his dad, would have been at every event. You know, we go on the boat. He's driving the boat. We go to the bar. He's having a good time coming outside.

bringing all of Wes's friends out with him to go jump on the speed bumps at the bar. It's Tybee. Of course, there's a three-year-old at the bar. Absolutely. No one's question. I actually was told at one point because he was sitting up at a bar, and this was a different place. And, of course, it was like one of Wes's friends owned this restaurant. It was like, yeah, he can't sit up there, but he can sit at one of the tables. So I was like, okay.

Okay. You got to have limits. You got to have restrictions. And he sort of, I mean, I've been around a lot of kids. Two beer minimum. I love my kids. But sometimes other kids, I don't engage as much with. especially when they're younger,

but he truly is, like, a fun hang. And one thing I noticed, and it really, it touched me and Keisha, too. Like, he, like, was really all about Wes's boys. The girls, not so much, you know, poor Colleenian didn't get as much attention. But I think he just, like, liked hanging out in time. With the guys, and, like, he was happier to see me than my kids are happy to see me. And he was like that with a lot of Chris's closest friends, Wayne and Jim. And, like, everyone sort of had their link moments.

he would just grab your hand and go kind of take you off and you would do things with Link. And it really, it was beautiful. It felt like Chris was there and then he was there through Link. And going down there, you just feel a lot. You know, you guys had that experience. You feel everything. You feel happy. You feel like West should be there.

You feel sad. It's just like everything together. Like when you call him a good hang, a good hangout, I mean, and you mentioned West, but Lakeisha is very high on that power ranking too, as always has been. So the- Let's rank them. The combined DNA is powerful. I did notice there were some nice shots of you guys riding in a car together. You and Link.

He was driving the golf car. Yeah, I mean, Keisha really... Maybe we should put, you know, some guardrails on this. He was skinny dipping at one point, and you were about four inches from his... Yeah, breaking news. We have another topless Greg shot that is now... Oh, no. Yeah, we did.

Surface. Not that we'll share it, Greggie, but just people should know, because it came up recently that there was a topless beach shot of Greg, which I don't really remember. What was scrub? Kind of remember. It got on the radar of multiple NFL employees because I think so... What is this? And this is for, this is for, you know, maybe some fans out there that just want to picture it.

It's Greg Toplinson, a jacuzzi. And that's a little extra special. And Link also naked. So actually, he's... Croped that out. Being naked helps prevent it from getting out. We don't need that. Yeah, we were having fun.

We got after it, too. I mean, we had fun. You're right about Kish. I think that gets lost. Maybe our listeners don't even know that. like Keisha's one of my best friends is one of all of our best friends too like in that and that it's not

because of Wes it's just they were a combination they were a powerhouse that was combined together and so it was it was a blast that's why we were so excited way back in the day when Wes and La Keisha got together because La Keisha had established herself as a powerhouse in the newsroom and a fun hang and it was like oh that makes

way more sense than these others randoms that Chris is dating right now well yeah I mean we were rooting for it and it It was the ideal love story. Yeah, we, it's crazy because it was their anniversary weekend, too. And it was the same weekend. I went there five years ago. And so it is, there is a heaviness, too.

It's not the same without West being there, but we felt like being there and having fun with all his friends. I love his friends and everyone popped up, you know, during the weekend. Jason, who was his efficient, who was nearby, no longer in time, he came by for a little bit. And we saw Wayne and Rosie a lot and everyone. And, but it was five years. ago that it's great i've been there four times in five years once was to um celebrate west getting over cancer once was the wedding once was celebrating his life after he died and then this was this was the the fourth and it's just it's insane what's happened uh over those five years but we we

appreciate all the people have been along for the ride yep and this is uh this this podcast is You know, it's about family, and it's about the connections that we have on the show, and we built through the years. And so having Lakeisha in our lives and having Link in our lives, it matters. And listeners know that the people that are important to the show matter. But that's nice. That's very nice. And Lakeisha is coming out again to L.A., and we're going to get to hang out with her.

Got a little event set up next week, and she'll be there as well. Oh, that's next week. Oh, yeah. This off season's going quickly. All right. That's it. Thank you to everybody behind the glass for your patience. A lot of yammering other stuff.

We'll be back Thursday, perhaps with a very special guest. Until then, as Chris said, heed the call. And Zeus and Mr. Fancy Pants The flames need NFL news and here's their chance It's ATL around the league Light of Flame boys Pickskins hot tonight Burn, baby burn

Welcome back to another edition of the ATL debate Club, my name is Dan Hansis, and I'm joined, as always, by a man whose Ferrari never met a neighborhood zone. It didn't want to speed through. Mark Sessler. Are you trying to link me indirectly to Justin Bieber? A vilified pop star and Mark Sessler, one in the same. Very few parallels. You know, Mark, we've been promising a special guest on the debate club for several weeks, and we finally came up with one for listeners. And it's a special one, right? Yeah, we finally have. And I think, well, I think we've done a good job here. We have. We have a have what many people consider to be,

not only the finest Cleveland Brown in history, but arguably the greatest football player of all time, Jim Brown. Thank you for joining us. Well, it's good to be here, guys. That was a pretty good intro, all right? Yeah, I liked it. All right. All right, so I guess we want to start with what's kind of in the news with you right now.

You are now back with the Browns, and at age 77, And my question is, what prompted you to want to be involved still? Well, I don't look at age like a lot of people, you know. I'm old, and I admit being old, but I don't think old, and my kids don't think of me as being old, and I hope my wife don't think too much about it. But I like to be relevant. I like to be involved.

I like to make change. And being with the Browns will help me make change. Being with the league will help me make change. And I'm very happy about that. And with the Browns being my family, I'm glad to be back home. You know, it was not too comfortable for the last three years, not being around them. If we would have talked to you a year ago and told you, hey, you're going to be with the Browns in an advisor position again, would you have said I was crazy? No, I wouldn't have looked at it that way

because in the National Football League things change all the time and I knew that the people that were there were not Clevelanders they really didn't have too much to do with Cleveland they had you know

Green Bay background and Seattle background and I don't think they had the love for Cleveland that I would have, someone that played there would have. So, you know, you kind of know there's going to be some kind of a change. It's interesting to see what's happened with the club over the last year. Haslam comes in. Immediately a very engaged owner, I think that what he brought with him was an energy from the ownership position

that fans just hadn't seen in a long time. A lot of dedicated. He came and he said, I'm going to bring this team back to its winning ways. I can see why that would attract you to come back with him. Your early thoughts on Haslam, but one question that I have is that there is this stuff bubbling up with the company he owns, and the fans just have so much hope in what he's shown so far. Should the fans be concerned about the lawsuits that are piling up?

Well, we're always concerned about things. but we take things as they come and we go by our instincts and our intellect and I am not worried at all about Jimmy Hassel I consider him a friend I consider him a bright human being a compassionate human being my wife and I love his wife

and I say that you know because they have been very kind to us and have been very respectful of us So if anyone have to worry about controversy, you're looking at it. Jim Brown brings you enough of that. And so life goes on and life proves itself. And when we made the announcement, he didn't seem to be worried about anything. And if he didn't seem to be worried about anything, I'm not going to worry about nothing.

So, hey. That was enough for you. That was enough for me. You know, you are, obviously, as we said, up front, you know, viewed as one of the great players of all time. And just from a historical standpoint, if we were put together a Mount Rushmore of running backs or fullbacks, you would have Jim Brown on there, you would have Barry Sanders, Walter Payton. Is there maybe a guy right now, like a fourth guy in that Mount Rushmore, that it's playing right now that you think could be viewed 20 years from now

as somebody at the level of those names, including you? Yeah, that's a no-brainer. My friend, my dear friend, Adrian, he has had an unbelievable year last year. He came back from an injury that surpassed courage and talent. It was just somewhere up there that nobody's been in the history of running backs to show that kind of dedication. to rehabilitating himself and then having that kind of a year is unprecedented. So I'm glad to be able to say that without hesitation because after him, I would not have anyone that I would put in that class.

I mean, you've seen so many, you've been around, and you've seen so many great players either playing with or watched as a football fan. I mean, was what he did last year? Was that kind of stunning to watch that? Was that something even, you were like, Wow, how is he pulling this off? Well, yeah, it was amazing because the type of injury

and the way you have to depend upon your legs, you can't bypass the need of those legs and to have that kind of injury and to take on that type of role, the amount of courage that it takes you can't imagine. And it's the only thing that I could really talk about in this manner that I respect on this degree because I know how difficult it is to be injured and just to come back and be all right. But to be that great and to show that kind of courage, man, it's unprecedented.

Let's talk about back on the Cleveland Browns, a young running back right there, Trent Richardson, who played through a tremendous amount of pain as a rookie last season. and it seemed to really show quite a bit of courage to play it through what it was a broken rib, leg injuries, never really 100%. Out of the gate, you had some tough comments about him. Would you like to take any of those back? I know now you guys are relatively close. You've talked a bunch. What's your view on him today?

My view is that I like him. He's a tremendous warrior, and he's a real fine running back that has a chance to, to prove his greatness. Unfortunately, as you said, he was injured, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But the things I said about him were not harsh at all. I said he looked like an ordinary back.

That's not a criticism. That's a launching pad. What makes you great before you run the ball as a professional player? Heinzmann trophies, winners fail all the time. So you never know who's going to make that leap in the Pro Bowl and be what they were when they were in college. So if you make this prognostication about how great someone is before they make that leap,

it's an unnecessary comment to make. And the great thing about the comment is how they receive it. And if he'd been mad at angry with me and held that as a grudge, then he would have shown something that would be weakness in my mind. But he brushed that off his back like it was a feather. He can't think about what I was saying in that sense because he knew he was going to have to play up to his game regardless of what I said.

And he tried to do that. If it were not for injuries, he would have had a tremendous year. But we had three or four conversations. Beautiful conversations. You know, going back to your career, you played nine seasons. I think a lot of people are just so fascinated that you would step away from the game. Mark and I, before you came in, were just looking over your stats. And what an amazing final season you had.

You go into movies. You retire and you go into movies. As a fan of sports movies, I find it interesting. I'm sure when you began as an actor, you were getting a lot of scripts for movie-type projects. Is that safe to assume? Some degree. Yeah. And, you know, my question to you, and I wonder if you agree, is, you know, there have been a lot of great baseball movies and, you know, there have been great basketball movies. And there have been some good football movies, but there hasn't been maybe a definitive football movie or many. Are you surprised that there aren't more great football movies out there? Well, any given Sunday was a tremendous football movie.

That's one of them, yes, which you were great in. Yeah, well, I was in it, and, you know, it's, but you're right. It's like their shit. be more great football movies because it has everything, you know, that it, it has everything that it should have to be able to be show greatness. I don't know why there hasn't been, but, you know, behind the scenes, there's been three or four. But like you say, there have been some great baseball movies and that took it to another level. So I'm stumped. You finally got me. I don't know why I can't give you an answer to that one. Well, I guess my other question is you were, you've been out in L.A. for a long time, been acting for decades now.

Did you ever think to yourself maybe I'm the one that could put together a great football movie with the insight you have? No, I wouldn't want to put together a football movie. I saw Clinton, Tarantino, just did a film. Django Unchained and I thought it was a brilliant film and so when I look at the movies I look at it across the board

and the people that I know and respect loved it and then other people didn't like it right and when that movie was over I stood up in the theater

and I laughed I just laughed man it was like holy smoke this was funny yeah and it was a it was laughed of respect for turntino to be able to say so much in the way that he did it right he's audacious you know yeah yeah absolutely that's a good word and uh i just love the film yeah and willie beeman you're a co-star yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah with any given sunday what was it like you had some pretty intense scenes with pacino i mean you guys looked like you guys looked like you're

like you really were one as a coach and assistant coach. What was it like acting with him? Oh, it was great. You know, Al Pacino is one of our great actors of all times. And he's a hell of a guy. And he's one of those guys that likes Sinatra. He likes you or he doesn't like you. So he liked me, so I was cool.

And we got together and played chess and, you know, hung out a little bit. And it was a great time because we had a lot. lot of good people on that movie and Oliver Stone is he's different you know

he's a different he's a different dude so he must have fired 20 people but Al Pacino is a fine actor

and I enjoyed working with him tremendously and I enjoyed it with the respect of me not being in his class

and but accepting the role and playing it to the best of my ability without fear of Al Pacino. Right. But so it was that way I looked at. It was the way I looked at.

Well, one of the reasons that you're with us today is because back in March, the NFL, agreed to pay out $42 million as part of a settlement to a group of retired players who have challenged the league over basically using their names and images without consent. I know that's an issue. That's important to you,

and you're the chairman of the board of the retirement, tired pro football players association, and you're trying to get former players to sign this settlement. Is that correct? Do you want to address that issue? Yes, we want all of the players out there to understand that this is a great opportunity for them, because this will be probably the only chance we'll have to have players who were not stars be able to benefit from something that the National Football League has set up. And the fund that has been set up is for the benefit of any player and all players.

And so a lot of our players that are suffering now will get help. Okay. And then we're working towards a health plan that can support everything else that's going on in that particular direction. but it's so important to have that fund available to all players and then to be able to hire a firm that can deal with the licensing of our names and images and so forth and so on

and to have that develop into a major fund. So it would be the first time that former players, will have anything like this to work with. And the great thing about it is that the judges has basically guided us down this road because they know that anything that would come from the standpoint of individual monies with 20,000 players and talking about putting enough money up to be able to split that

among the players would mean, that we'll all get $100. Right. You know. But with this, you have a continual fund, and that fund is controlled by a board of former players, and nobody else. Just seven of us are the board.

I'm the chairman of the board, and we can set out to deal with the most extreme cases of need and work our way backwards. I think it's a tremendous opportunity. And there is no other alternative because if you say, well, Jim, we don't want to deal with it. And I say, well, I'll just go my way and sue them for my image. And I have a real good chance because I'm used in a whole lot more things than 99% of the other players. So those of us who are working for the good of all is working at possibly a situation.

sacrifice of our own individual wealth, but that's okay because it's time that a lot of our players who've never been recognized and who've never been looked up for have a chance to benefit from the National Football League. Well, Jim, thank you so much for joining us today. It really is an honor. And I just want to say, before you go, Mark Sessler, he hasn't said it, but he is a big Cleveland Browns fan. Can you tell Mark that the Lombardi Trophy is going to get to Cleveland?

Oh, absolutely. tell you what you'll see a slow change and at some point within the next five or six years you're going to see something that's going to really make you feel good

coming from you I'll believe it we're going to put everything we have into it and it's going to produce it's going to make one city in this country very happy yes Jim Brown thank you very much

Thank you guys for having me. All right. And there he goes. Jim Brown. We're not worthy. We're not worthy. We're not. That was pretty impressive, right?

I'll tell you what. We've had other guests here before. Some unimpressive but other impressive individuals. There was a bit of, there was a feeling in the room. Am I wrong? Yeah. I mean, he's like one of those guys. I mean, he's one of the players in this league in the history of this league that he kind of

changes the temperature when he walks in the room and that's that's you know you shake his hand and that's jim brown so that was that was pretty cool i mean it was it's telling to me that a he said right off the bat i don't think about age right i want to stay relevant it you know two things he's still involved in the team that he calls his family and uh this this effort right at at the end in terms of helping retired players what was that by the way they want to just there is a website i guess if you're a former player and you're listening to to this. If you want to sign this settlement, which sounds important, you can go to a website. It's www. www.pro football retired players association.com. You can sign it right there. He's at the

front of, he's the chairman of the board for that. So, I mean, this is something, he doesn't have to be involved with this. I'm sure Jim Brown is doing pretty well financially, but, you know, he's decided, and that's what he said to us, you know, the reason why he hasn't left the Browns. He likes being involved. He likes being, you know, plugged in with the players. So, yeah, that was pretty cool. I like the guy because, and I think we knew this about him to some degree going in. He doesn't mince words, and we had come up with some of our questions beforehand because we do, on a Cajun, prepare for this show. It's usually in a bar, but yes, the preparation.

The setting where we come up with the preparation is often questionable. But I think we felt like we could ask him anything. It wasn't a guy that you have to tiptoe around. He'll answer any question. And now, give me an honest answer right now. I mean, when Jim Brown tells Mark Sessler that, what was his exact wording? Was it in five years or something? I think he says the change is basically happening.

Change is happening, Obama style. But he's saying something very special is in store. Well, you've got to stay alive, Mark, for five years. Yeah, well, hopefully that's in the cards. You know what's going to happen? It's going to end up being one of those final destination situations where what Jim Brown said is exactly true. However, different things are going to start happening. to your life where you're, you know, you're going to step and there's going to be a helicopter

blade that goes by you or, you know, a school bus that comes out of nowhere. So you just keep your head on the swivel, is what I'm saying. Nothing comes easy. Now, you know, we talked about any given Sunday, and I love talking about anything with Jim Brown's Hollywood career, because it was, it's run, I don't know, I don't think he's doing much acting anymore, but, you know, he went from 65 through the 90s, dozens of movies. Any given Sunday was, the movie that the football film that he was in

and it is a good movie I know you really you really liked it right when it came you went to see it with your dad in the movie theater yeah yeah

and we you know the internet has a very very deep memory the internet never forgets and you know we did some research on Mark Sessler

and any given Sunday and we came across a chat in Washingtonpost.com and it has that you know when a story is old on the internet when the font has it

very really like Times Roman feel to it. It was possibly written on a typewriter. Yeah, the HTML is very crude. But here we go. From New Haven, Connecticut, a young Mark Sessler wrote to Oliver Stone, the director. Excuse me. Incorrect.

Wrong town, buddy. Wrong town. Ridgefield, Connecticut. There he is. It doesn't even give your name up top, although at the bottom I see it does. Let's read what a young Mark Sessler filled with joy and wonder wrote to Oliver Stone. Once Upon a Time. Thank you, Internet, for all the great things you do.

Oliver Stone, your movies bring inspiring power and force to the medium. Wow. That's right off the bat. One reason I have started to make my own films, exclamation point. I'm still waiting for those. How do you approach the editing of your films, comma, the flash cuts, comma, grainy images, comma, et cetera. And then parentheticals, the shadow figure alone in the stands in any given Sunday. question mark i would love to know what you see in your mind is the story develops within you must

have your own screenplay version with all these images included it's a question i guess yours comma not yours truly just yours mark sessler oliver stone and you know it's funny he gives stone gives an a rambling incoherent ethical because you know i know that is number one i had i had had like seven cups of coffee before i wrote that something's wrong with me they gave seven a coffee to a nine-year-old? Well, I was not nine. I'm not as young as you think of him, but I look, I seem extremely naive in my, in my question.

It's kind of adorable, and, you know, Jim Brown cracked me up because he said that Oliver Stone fired 20 people while shooting a football movie. Well, which doesn't actually surprise me, because Stone is a total loose canon. And if you want to search it out on the internet, his answer is a bit loose canady to me. I'm not sure what he's talking about, then. Yeah, if you want to find out how Oliver Stubb, and answered, Mark, you know, test her Google skills. But listen, let's go back to what Brown told us about his Mount Rushmore.

We teed them up a little bit. I mean, I guess Adrian Peterson is almost the obvious answer as a guy that can join Brown and Walter Payton and Barry Sanders on that type. That's just my Mount Rushmore. Do you disagree with those three names? I mean, it's hard to disagree. I mean, I wonder if there's a fifth guy you could add to that. You can't do that on Mount Rushmore.

It's four guys. Everyone knows that. No, and I'm just, you know, it's at some point, did we put another president on the side of that moment? Never! You cannot ever mess with Mount Rushmore.

I'm very serious about this. All matters, South Dakota related. I'm very serious. All right, well, that's fair. It doesn't sound like Trent Richardson's getting on that, on that mountain then according to you, but I do think that, again, he didn't say, you know, I didn't think we thought he would,

but he didn't back track or anything. He basically said, I stand by what I said. To everyone else, what he said about Richardson with this big hubbub, but he's basically saying you haven't arrived as a rookie before you've played a game

Well, I have a theory on this and I guess I could have brought it up to him but it's a little it's a little Oliver Stoney and so I won't do it is that when he made that comment that was when he was in the period of falling out

with the previous ownership I don't think and the reason I brought up his age 77 is I don't think he thought this time last year that he would ever be closely associated or at least professionally associated

with the Browns ever again. So maybe in a Joe Namath type of, you know, tongue, he said, listen, I don't think this guy's that good. Not thinking he was going to end up being back in the Browns organization, ownership changed over pretty quickly. And Haslam came in and apparently is a really nice relationship with Haslam. And now all of a sudden he's in a bit of an awkward situation because now he's in the organization with Richardson,

but at the same time, you're Jim Brown, and you don't have to worry about what anybody thinks about what you say. Yeah, and if what he says is going to happen, And if that comes true, Richardson, Jim Brown, Haslam, all of them might be in a better place than they are today. So I don't know. How do we top Jim Brown going forward in terms of getting a high-profile guest? Because now that has to be the ground floor. Maybe we can get, I don't know, the Pope possibly.

Yeah, we'd have to go outside of football circles. So that opens up the range of possibilities. I'm on the case, guys. Right, we've got Wilk who... Oh, we do? Actually, that's right. We don't want to say... We don't want to tease it too much because it's a lot of pressure on Wilk. This Jewish kid from North Hollywood has connections at the Vatican,

so don't worry about getting the Pope. So you wouldn't think that, but that's why Wilk is such an unpredictable talent behind the glass. I think now when we tell people we've got a guest coming, it's possibly true. And we do have someone coming next week. It's a believable lie now, yeah. No, we may have someone next week. We're working on something behind the scenes. Don't let us down, Alex, okay?

I'm sorry. I won't. You've already sort of let us down on the same guest, so I'm going to provide reinforcements. I don't know what you're talking about. You're talking in circles, okay? Listen, we should probably wrap it up now. Mark needs to go celebrate because the Browns apparently are Super Bowl 53 champions. It's never too early to start celebrating.

See on a lot of hope. So much hope in the room right now. And until next week, we'll let Mark go out on that note as a champion of the future. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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