NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Remembering Wess with Zak Keefer, GM rankings and Draft QBs with Nate Tice

Episode Date: April 15, 2021

A room filled with some heroes- Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news around the NFL, but not without first sitting down to talk to the Atheltic's Zak Keefer about his beautiful article on Chris Wesseling (1:30). The heroes pull themselves together to talk about Julian Edelman retiring (25:01) and Clowney signing with the Browns (34:21). We go through GM Rankings (45:24) before hitting the draft QBs with Nate Tice (58:00).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. Is this really the offseason? Welcome to another. edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis. Come to you from a room filled with some heroes. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal.

You know, this is not like any other offseason. Really, there is no off season, as Mark has reminded us constantly over the last seven years of the show, at least not for us. We're always busy, and we got the draft coming up now, a free agency in the rear view now, and then the, training camps and then the season and you know it it just goes on and on and on uh but also this has been very different uh than every other off season obviously uh chris wessling our great friend and a colleague on the show and uh passed away of course in february and you know we've talked about it a lot boys you know just trying you know remembering west and mourning his loss and and moving forward or at least attempting to and um i want to bring in somebody here

as we start today's show. Zach Kiefer of the athletic who did a great job, remembering Wes in a piece in the athletic, really great stuff. So to start today's show, before we get to all the football stuff, want to talk about that. Welcome, Zach, to the Around the NFL podcast.

Thank you, Dan. It is an honor to be on with you guys, one of my favorite NFL podcast. So I wish it was under different circumstances, but I have, learned a lot about the late great Chris Wesleyan over the last couple of months. You certainly have. I mean, that is, you really did a great job in it, and it required a sensitive touch.

And you were always wary of that. And when you connected with all of us and you spoke with all of us, Ricky, Wesleying brothers, really appreciated you understanding kind of the sensitivity of the topic. And I think you really, as I texted you this morning, you kind of nailed the essence of the man. What did you learn about Wes? I mean, can I be honest? It was hard to nail the essence of this man because he was a character. I think, Mark, I think at some point you were like, you were like, you know, West always loved to collect characters in his life.

He was the greatest character of all. And I think you guys all kind of told me that in your own different way because you each kind of had a different relationship with him. But what, you know, stood out to me was this was a guy for a long time. You know, a lot of people know him as the around the NFL guy, the football. nerd all that before that he was this guy that was really looking for something right he really was kind of this wandering soul and he was looking for meaning in his life and in his job and it all kind of came together when gregg stumbled upon this 50,000 word you know football story he wrote for his old website and everything really changed and you know like i wrote in the story he'd the call

but what a character i mean i couldn't get people off the phone they wanted to talk about this guy so much and it was um and at the same time like when you're writing about this guy it's there's a high bar to clear right like you got to get this guy right and he was such a fun unique individual um i could almost hear west in the back of my mind saying you better get this right man you better not you better do me justice you know what i mean it feels like that would be something he would say you sure that wasn't nick wessling's voice his brother yeah nick um nick was great but at the end of our conversation we talked for like 40 minutes he was like now just so you you know, you better not screw this up. You better get my brother right. And I was like in the back

of my head, I'm like, I better not, because he's got what? Wes has got like, what, six brothers? Like, they'd all be hunting me down if I did his brother right. So the pressure was immense. I would just say that, you know, Wes looking down on this, I think he would have immense respect for how you carried out this project. You know, I remember talking with you. We all had these long initial conversations. And your level of, I think, emotional awareness and sensitivity mattered a lot. And you're more than just a reporter. And it's like you never really know how some of these projects when you're a writer come

to you in life. And what I have thought Zach Kiefer would be the guy to write this, like, you know, when everything happened, I don't know I would have known that. But like, in the end, it came to you and you did such a respectful, powerful job with it that I really think Wes would smile down on what you've done. So thank you. Thanks, Mark. That really means the world to me.

And as I talk to you guys, I mean, I've been through something similar. And, you know, as you guys go through like stages of grief, like those are real, man. And that whole, like, it hit me like a ton of bricks when you talked about having to leave the podcast for a couple minutes. And Dan, you were like, you know, I'll think about them on Sunday nights when I want to text them. And it's like anyone who's ever lost someone, they've been through those moments. And I became invested in this story because, one, Wes was awesome. He was, I mean, the stories made me laugh. And then in a moment that almost I had to get emotional too.

And I didn't know Wes very well. We might have said hi in passing, but I feel like I know him now. And it was through you guys and it was through Erica in an hour long talks with Colleen. And the text message she would show me that West used to send her. I mean, like, there was going to be a party one night, and Colling couldn't make it back in town. And Wes told her, no, we're going to hold off. We're not going to do it unless the whole group can be together. What a fun friend to have.

And it came through to that, it came through to me. Like, all of us want to have friends like this in our lives. And you guys had that guy. And it sounds like you guys really, really became really tight. Yeah, that's really well said, Zach, because, you know, I think when you lose someone, You know, you think of the family, and that is who we think of first is like Keisha and in his family. But when you talk about him as a friend, he meant so much to so many people as friends. And like in our world and everyone's world, like those are such meaningful relationships.

They were to him. Like I think that would have been one of the highest compliments you could give him was that he was a great friend. And he was to us all differently, but to so many other people. And so I think that's well said that it's like really hard to pinpoint the essence of West because there was a lot to him. You know, he could be he could be stubborn. He could be funny. He could be, you know, as kind as can be. But I think hitting on what he meant as a friend to so many people, us, us and Colleen and everything, of course, in the article is really meaningful.

And it's nice because we, you know, in this. COVID time, so much has been lost. But I think the ability to honor and celebrate and mourn has really been so messed up for so many people around the world. And now, and we've been affected by that. And so we're going to have a chance to celebrate West altogether. But I think stuff, something like this, where we're getting to celebrate them in print and sort of, you know, in memoriam like i think that's important like there's a reason people have been mourning and getting together and celebrating and honoring people for as long as there have been people you know what i mean it's because it helps it's because it's meaningful and so and so that really helps us thank

and you know you reading the story and that was really well said greg like reading the story is and i'm reading um what zach wrote and again it's in the athletic um please check it out about Chris, it's like, I don't know, I keep on waiting for the story to change as I'm reading it, that there's going to be a better ending. And then your story ends in kind of an abrupt way to me, not because of the writing, but just because there is no kind of happy ending to it. And that's still something that messes with you. And like we were planning a trip to Tybee Island at some point this year as a group to celebrate Wes. And, you know, It's just like the fact that he won't be there with us.

What we're going to do is celebrate him, and we know that's something that would make him happy, and it's a great way to pay respect to him. But it is a process for us, and I think Zach gets what your story did, a nice job hitting on, that we're trying to figure it out. And the listeners are amazing. They've been so supportive of us and even look at the comments of your story, Zach, immediately, a huge outpouring in the comments section, people sharing West's memories, what he meant to them. and that to me is another tribute to the men.

The one thing that jumped out a lot was how real he was. Like, he wasn't a saint, right? And you guys know in this business, there's a lot of egos, and there's a lot of that. There's fake. This guy was not that. I mean, there's that little story that a couple people told me about the NFL network coach kind of being like, yeah, some things we can work on. And Wes is like, I will not be taking your advice.

like he didn't he didn't play the game he he loved football for what it was and I wrote in there like he wasn't in it for the clicks and that's something that I admire like he didn't he was doing 50,000 word stories on NFL stuff and he wasn't getting paid a dime for it like he loved the work for the right reasons and he didn't play the ego game and he didn't fall into that stuff and a lot of people I feel like in this industry kind of do and into your point Dan I cannot begin to tell you the amount of outpouring of feedback I've gotten already in five, six hours. Like, I haven't been able to open my phone. And that's not because of the story I did.

That's because of West, right? Like, I'm getting messages from people in Australia and England and Finland. And you know what? The one thing I hear over and over is I've never loved a guy more that I've never met. That's the kind of impact. And you guys know this. You guys have done shows all over the world. And you guys have had this huge following you've built up.

But that's blown me away how much this guy touched these people, whether it was cancer, whether it was football, whether it was, you know, whatever. I just, I mean, writers, fans, people who don't even like football, people who've never listened to the podcast have reached out to say, I didn't even know this guy. And I loved every word of the story because of who he was. So you guys had a good one. He was an awesome guy. Well, I think you made, you know, reading some of the comments, I think there were a lot of people out in America and beyond at a corporate. job and maybe, you know, sitting there and reading it at work and suddenly finding themselves shedding tears because it's like we're all still sort of going through it in these very

unpredictable stages. But I love that you wove in some of Wes's humor too because like that shouldn't be lost. Like he's the guy that like when he'd have a Westlmania, there'd be like he'd invite podcast listeners, you know, which we wasn't always something we were aware was going to happen. And then like he just would, he would, he didn't suffer fools, but he'd be anyone's friend. And some of my most delicious West moments are like when we would be, you know, in studio trying to tape something and he just would have a meltdown over like the headset or things like that. Like he, when he get wound up, like there's only one West like that. So when I, when you mentioned like hearing his laugh and his voice, like, I definitely feel that all the time. And the way that you open the story by mentioning the silence that's been left behind on this show, but just in our lives.

Like I thought that captured how I've been feeling, how we've been feeling, so perfect. perfectly yeah yeah that hit that hit me hard like when when when you told me that and then a couple other you guys were like I can hear his voice but it's not there that's something a lot of people can relate to right like when you've gone through a law so and and as hard as it was to write that at the very end like you mentioned Dan like you're going to hear his voice for a long time and it's just it's going to kill you you know he was that special I heard it this morning because I had I had struggled just to read it and just just, I knew you were going to be on the show.

And it's like, I almost heard him saying, it's like, just for, just, you know, finish it. You know, it's like, because I remember this pot, this other podcast that our friends did about his first battle too. And, um, like a similar, a similar thing then. And I, and I just started thinking there's, you know, he talked about too. There's just magic people in your life. And sometimes they're there for a little bit. Sometimes they're there for a long time like, like Wes was with us.

And, and he was just one of those people. like and I don't know it's just like everything about it I think of just the one time I've really met you Zach randomly like I always associated this trip I had with Indianapolis to do a story about Frank Gore with Wes because that was when he got his first surgery right when he got cancer it was the first thing I did when I got got back home from that that trip what was see him and I don't know. know it's like all these years later that you're you're writing about him and it's just it's just something that's been part of like i just i don't know why i'm surprised but i'm surprised how much of my life i have these sort of thoughts of these these connections that west was such a big part of like who we all were as uh as people and and this is another one and i think you would i think you would love what you did and he would appreciate it for sure so we do thank you Zach yeah we really do, Zach. And, you know, part of what I feel like is our responsibility is helping to keep

Wes's memory alive. And, you know, sometimes, and I've had a lot of, like, thoughts just to myself, like, what does it mean to do this podcast if one of us isn't around anymore? Well, one reason to do it is it's, it's to keep Wes in people's memories. And, and Zach, what you wrote, that's going to be there forever digitally. And whenever people want to learn more about Chris, Zach, Iver, your your piece of athletic nailed it. So if you haven't read it, please read it. And again, Zach, we just say thank you for doing it the right way and honoring a great man.

Yeah, thanks for your guys' help and for answering 45 text messages for me and for answering all my questions and really talking about something that's really, really hard and still really raw for you guys. So I'm looking forward to seeing you in person, Zach, like, like Combine or Super Bowl whenever we're all allowed. To be safely together, we can, we can throw one back. Maybe at the, maybe at the bar where Wes loved in Indianapolis, where we might have. Well, if we're going to honor Wes, we're going to throw more than one back.

Just be prepared. I'm in. He also loved multiple bars, by the way. Right. Yeah, that's just to let's not narrow it down here. Zach, thank you again. And best of luck in the upcoming season. Does great jobs covering the NFL and the cults.

Zach Keeper. Thank you, buddy. Thanks, guys. All right, there he goes. Yeah, that was awesome. He just did such a great job with it, boys. And I think, you know, when he first reached out to us all, and he did that right as well, he kind of reached out to us individually taking our temperature on it. There is an initial bit of trepidation.

It's like, do you want to kind of be on record talking about him? And is it going to come out right? Because you don't have control, obviously, of the final product. But ultimately, I know, you know, we're plugged in. Greg, you're very good in knowing, like, who's legit and who's not in league circles. We lean on you with that. And he, Zach just seemed like somebody who thought we could handle it.

And I mean that sincerely. Like, it is, as time goes on, and one thing that I've learned from this, and people, everyone means well, everybody means well. And the NFL, as I've said on the show, all the people behind the scenes, shadowy league figures, colleagues, everybody was super cool. in the wake of Wes's passing in February. But like what happens with loss and people that are, you know, truly close to somebody is the world moves on.

And people that knew West and respected West, they say the right things and they mean it, 95% of them. But then life moves on. That's just the way life is. But then for the people that are really close to someone that goes, you're still there and you're still trying to figure it out. And we're at a certain place that's been really hard. Lakeisha is at a place that we can't fathom.

And there's just layers to it. So I don't know. I don't even know where I'm going with this other than to say that this is an ongoing process. It feels like it happened yesterday. It feels like a long time ago. But the fact that it was only, what? A little over two months ago. A little over two months ago.

It's unbelievable. I really like what you said there, Dan, because I think number one, and this is not a surprising, you know, I guess, result from what's happened. But our group, for all the ups and downs we've had, I mean, our larger group, not just the three of us and Ricky, but larger. I think we've grown, like, immeasurably closer. And it's a lot of, like, hours alone, you know? Yep.

Yep. We're going to do, we'll keep doing. him proud like that's he's our friend you know yeah i think some shows like you know we're trying to figure out the balance of things too and you know some shows we we don't talk about them some some shows we do but it's all you know it's always it's always there um i just i it's funny i wish i i told zach this privately too you mentioned like knowing um like like Zach just like a little bit Wes and I had a conversation we would always talk like we're kind of ranking beat writers or ranking beats like the athlete and he would I knew that Zach I knew that's some

real scientist I knew that I knew that Wes was a fan of um the athletic Colts beat and I knew he knew Zach I talked I talked about that trip that I had with going to see Frank Corn seven we talked about oh yeah they're really good uh Zach and Stephen Holder on the Colts beat and that that sort of thing means something and it's almost like I I love that I had that thing in my head my ear from years before like because it was meaningful for us to move forward and we will go to the lesbian bar that's the one i'm talking about in indian well i think you know what i'm saying like yes it was it was it was that was it was character that karaokeish bar yeah right but we don't know you know it's a covid reality yeah yeah that's true it might not be for a year or two

well hopefully yeah is it's still a lesbian bar we don't know we we don't know um but maybe one day we'll Find out. I mean, West, I met, I met Freddie Kitchens at that bar. It is not a lesbian bar. It is, on that one particular evening, it was a karaoke event that seemed to involve lesbians. Hey, Rick, I'm going to bring in, Ricky. Although, Wes punched above his weight with lesbian friends, like half of his friends

from Tybee were, we're lesbian. So it's like, that was just the circle that West was rolling. Yeah, what do you need? Your lesbian correspondent. Yeah, my lesbian correspondent, Erica Temposi. I'm like sobbing about Wes And you're like, hey Wipe way your tears and tell me

Is lesbian bar the proper nomenclature? You can call it Girls' Night. Depends on the bar. Depends on the bar. Yeah, but there really aren't a lot of lesbian bars. What are we talking about? They don't bring enough money. Guys spend money.

They make more money than women. They have ladies' nights at gay bars, but they're really statistically aren't lesbian bars. Thank you, Erica. Ricky, anything you wanted to, as we get back on track here? That was, by the way, that was an excellent report filed by you right there. That was excellent. We might need the developing news drop on that one.

But Ricky, you were interviewed also, obviously, for that piece. Anything you wanted to add there? I don't know if I can. It was beautifully done. And you guys summed it up perfectly. I'm just like, oh, I have this huge photo of him behind me. And it's, you know, it's in my living room. I'm in a one-bedroom apartment where my setup is.

So I'll be doing my workouts, you know, and it's funny. I, like, every time I turn around after doing a hard set or push-ups or whatever, I see Wes kind of laughing at me. And I talk to him. It's like my whole life is in this one room. And it's like, sometimes I'm, like, talking to a damn photograph. But I hear his voice. He's telling me, you know, it's.

It just doesn't feel real still. It would mean a lot to him. Wherever Wes is, no, that photo is behind you because that, again, just, you know, he meant so much to all of us. And in different ways, as Zach alluded to. We all had kind of different relationships with Wes. And that's kind of a measure of the man, too, that he kind of could live in so many areas and connect with people on so many different levels. Yeah, I work out. Well done.

We get it. Oh, man. Listen, it's not like you transition to a regular football podcast after having conversations like that. And I'm not doing the line because I don't like what people do it. It's like, this is what Wes would have wanted. Yeah, but he would have wanted us to talk football today and not make it just all about the sadness of the situation on balance. So what's not?

He liked, he liked like a little attention. He did, like everyone. He liked, well, I mean, it's about me. Where did that come from? Right. We've all got. a little ego, but he didn't like too much. He would, he would, he would want to, he would want to move it on at a certain point for sure.

Yeah, so, so let's, let's do that and just one more call to the article. Go find it. I know it's behind a paywall, which is tricky, and I would never tell you to find it through ways that aren't paying for the athletic, because it's a very good website. But find the article, however you can. And check out the ATN subreddit as well for discussion on it. All right. Big show today.

Zach, obviously, awesome guests. We have another guest coming up later. Nate Tice, who is really a guy that we like and respect in the draft game. And we're going to have him on the show to talk about some prospects that are jumping out to him. The draft is not far off. I know you said we're in the, what did you call it in the last show, Mark, the teens of April? I can't remember what it was. I don't remember anything I said on this show.

So, you know, I don't know what I said. An anonymous time of the year, although I did think after the show, like, you were kind of ragging on April a little bit, but Colton is an April baby. And me and your wife shared the same birthday also in April, so a little bit of an unnecessary pop there. And my father, so I've checked in every offensive box possible. Ed Sessler, in the biggest of all spots, gets taken down a notch. Proud of me now, Dad. Well, it was, you know, not my total intention, but you're right. The results are unchanged.

It hurt. It stung. I'm going to be honest with you. Yeah, so we're going to have Nate on And also Greg rode a banger On the All the GMs in the league And Greg, a little bit of a twist You want to get into it? Well, we're doing news first

We could do whatever you want first All right, let's do this, let's do this Let's do some news Get caught up there, hit Greg's GMs And then bring in Tice What a show, not Mike Tice And Nate Tice does he keep the pencil Behind his ear?

I guess you'll have to wait to find out Like the old man, Mike always had that number two pencil behind his ear. Yep. Had a lot of fun with that. I mean, also famously missed a draft pick in the first. I mean, not all on him, but the Vikings did. You remember that?

Yeah. I mean, I don't think maybe that is something that Nate would not want to comment on. He probably doesn't want to get too into like the dad thing. I'm sure he gets that a lot. But so I'll say it for him. Mike Tice did a lot more winning than people remember it. Because it did end poorly. There were some wilds, there were some fun people, stories people had fun with.

But he did a sneaky amount of winning that people forget. And I'm sure he would respect his dad unlike Mark with Ed. I mean, I don't know what is, I don't know, I'm not sure what we're going here with that. I respect Mike Tice and my father. How about that? Nailed it. Let's do some news. Now, I've always said, I'm going till the wheels come off.

And they finally have fallen off. due to an injury last year I'll be making my official announcement of my retirement from football There he is Julian Edelman Patriots great

one of the more productive and successful wide receivers in the history of that esteemed franchise listen I don't hold anything against him these players they give up so much to build football careers

and if they have a really successful one like Julian Edelman did who am I to mock his retirement video but I will say the 360 pan around Julian Edelman at midfield of Gillette Stadium with him just looking around the stadium in I guess awe and reverence

and really I mean really going for it it probably took about 30 seconds and then he began his monologue that was the good stuff. That's the cringe comedy that I enjoy. It is. I watching that, I was just like,

this is one of those things. If it was any other team, you know, favorite player, I would just be mocking this so hard. But when it's your player, you're just like, yeah,

take whatever time you need, Julian. By the way, did you make it to the very end? You probably didn't. I did not. I have to say. A spaceship beamed him up,

which was a pretty big tonal shift. I'm not even joking. I liked it. I'm absolutely serious. It added a little levity to what was a little very self-serious. Yeah, but wait a second. He put so much, so much effort into building up the gravitas. You can't, it's a tonal disconnect. It did really make sense. It was kind of like in a Judd-Apita movie. Sometimes they suddenly changed tone a little hard. It doesn't quite work. But it was fun. I like that he added that to the year. It was Julian Edelman's This Is 40 moment.

I always, like, Julian Edelman is the, and I think I've probably mentioned this before, but the first person that I interviewed, first player I ever interviewed at NFL.com, and it was like when he was essentially unknown, I mean, he was, he was, he, he, he still, though, he had this, like, beautiful, long, um, Thor-like hair. And now this was the same day where Dan and I both were dispatched. I think they were kind of testing to see, you know, if we could even do this. And he, yeah, we had the chops. Dan went and interviewed Brandon Lloyd, and I'll let Dan explain that. But I learned that day that that version of Edelman, I think the whole beam me up in what he was in that announcement, he's really evolved as a person.

I mean, he's not tight-lipped like some Patriots players were, but he was back then. And it was like five questions with Julian Edelman. I could not get him to say anything at all. And in fact, I even asked if he had tried to get funny, if he had molded his hair off of Thor, the Marvel character. and he just looked at me like this person is a nut this person's a total nut and Dan's interviewing Brandon Lloyd

and I look over and he's like they're both giggling and laughing and enjoying each other and it's just like I learned a lot about the Patriots culture that day yeah he never really got off that too much with the media

but he he was such a fascinating player and the Hall of Fame argument that everyone's been having on Twitter this week is so annoying because like I'm usually the first one to talk Hall of Fame I'm interested in the Hall of Fame as an entity, but, you know, sometimes you just wish you could just talk about what he was as a player because it was so fascinating.

I think there was levels to him. First of all, he had like an uncannily similar career to Troy Brown, which to me was Mr. Patriots, the only jersey I own. When I think of the 2000s, in terms of the Patriots, I think of Troy Brown. When I think of the 2010s, I think of Julian Edelman. Obviously, Brady is, you know, the guy who puts it all together, and Gronk is like a superior player. But to me, those were there to glue guys. And we're going to talk blue guys on our TV show this week. And Edelman was a return guy who was an incredible returner, like one of the best of the last 15 years as a returner,

just like Troy Brown, had no like receiving production for three or four years, finally gets his chance after Welker leaves and just takes over. but so dynamic. I mean, a college quarterback, Kent State, like a legit quarterback. It wasn't like, hey, I'm playing quarterback. Sometimes I'm half, you know, I think they ran a crazy offense at Kent State. And he becomes this wide receiver who was a seventh round pick, but was so explosive and uncanny.

And I remember saying pretty early when he started coming up, like, I'm taking home over Welker because he's making guys miss. He's making plays on his own, the combination of what he could do with his mind meld with Brady. and the way he was just physically gifted at getting open and doing things after the catch. He was such an integral, awesome, just player. And so I don't care.

I don't personally think he's a hall of humor, but I don't care that much about that when, like, that's dominating the thing. He had something greater, which was like, you knew him. You know, everybody, you knew him. He was in all the big spots. He played his best in the biggest moments, and it's like, what's better than that.

You know, that's what people know. I mean, not here to judge our contemporaries, but it just seemed lazy to just break it down to just, is he going to Canton or not? When some guys, that's not the best way. Now, could he go to Hall of Fame? He could. And I think his playoff resume is a big part of that.

He had 118 catches, 1412 yards and 5 touchdowns in the postseason, which is crazy. I think about when I think about his big playoff moment, Mark, you and I think Wes might have been with us as well. We were at Rockos in Culver City. it was a great back and forth playoff game with the Ravens. I think it was the last like Joe Flacco flash in the postseason where he was just going toe to toe and outplaying Brady for a first stretch of that game.

Patriots come back from multiple scores and the turning play of the game was Julian Edelman throwing a perfect deep spiral on a trick play to Danny Amandola. I mean, he was just like the exact type of guy. Not to bring it back to baseball, but like when I think about my own dynasty I had in my life, the Yankees, like Bernie Williams, like he, He was the Julian Edelman of the Yankees. He's not going to the Hall of Fame. He was never the best player on the team,

but you can't imagine how they would have been able to sustain the greatness that I did without him at the center. And I think he's one of the great all-time glue guys. I think Edelman is like when you think about what it means to be a glue guy. Edelman was that for the Patriots. I still kind of think he's going to end up on the bucks this year, especially after the alien closed to the video, which makes me think everything was totally a farce and insincere before that.

But if this is indeed the end and his body's probably telling him, him it is it was an awesome career can't or no that doesn't mean speaking of the bucks i i just think that he was genuinely you know not in a malicious way but just hurt by brady leaving i don't think he was the same after that i mean if i can't think of a player who bought in more to what tom brady was selling in new england and they just i think reg you used the word mind meld um they were in it in the biggest moments in january when it mattered the most they were linked and i just i cannot think of him in a different uniform. As much as it was weird to think about brady in a different uniforming. He really was the New England Patriots and you're right about the glue guy thing.

And he's a special player. He was a college quarterback. He had to come in and beat so many different things to keep his role initially in New England. And he found every possible way to contribute. And that's a total Bill Belichick type player right there. His body was broken. I know we should move on. The last thing was like him winning that Super Bowl MVP in the in the Rams game on a season where he was like dragging that knee around. That's the thing is I don't know if he's coming back because he's you could he no one took more more hits than Edelman over the years and just seemed to be totally spent and look I get it Patriots fans are obnoxious he was a small white guy that got like too much love because he was like

a small white guy but it's like it also doesn't change that he was just like such a badass as a player and I don't know he'll have the last revenge because this Hall of Fame thing will be so annoying as a debate for the next 15 years. Horrendous. It's a horrendous conversation. It's a bummer of a way to go out on his career. I would think Edelman will say that to you if you ask him the question, too, which is to go out in 2020 with a bad seven and nine Patriots team, his best buddy, Tom's not there. It's COVID, so there's nobody in the stands.

He can't get on, he can't stay on the field. It makes me think of the, because Mark, I think you nailed it. I think he probably felt like when Brady left his career in a lot of ended as well when red was thinking about Andy after Andy escaped and he's and red still in the prison in Shawshank and he just goes I guess I just miss my friend no bingo yeah I feel like that's the way Julian was in his final season all right speaking of future hall famers potentially jadevian clownie is found a home as predicted it happened jadevian clownie is on the Cleveland As predicted, it's a one-year contract loaded with incentives that get up to $10 million if he plays well and stays on the field.

And as predicted, Twitter went crazy with photoshopps of Miles Garrett next to Jadavian Clowny and various stories about the Browns big offseason, capped with a big move. All that to me is Hocom, as Dave Damesh would say. But at the same time, do I hate the move, Mark? I don't hate the move. It's worth a shot. But just buyer beware, you're not. You're not getting the guy that was blowing up that running back in the back field at South Carolina. You're getting a potentially broken down near 30 guy that struggles to stay healthy and has never put up huge numbers.

I think, you know, we did a network hit with Baldi and he said it, you know, right away that he needs to be in shape. He needs to get his body ready for football. Have you guys heard a lot about that? Because when Baldi said that, that raised my eyebrow a little bit. No, it did for me too. circle a little bit he definitely wanted to get that out there and baldy talks to coaches and clownies had a lot of surgeries in the offseason over the last few years and missed a lot of offseason work and yet i think that's that that's a factor to it but that's what he was speaking

to that that he was not showing up in the right in the right way i just think like the reason that i'm not um i don't think it's a reason to say it's a tipping point moment for cleveland uh and now they're unstoppable it's like we shouldn't be looking at jadevian clownie that way it's It's maybe you get 10 games out of them, 11, I don't know. You know, they took a bit of a risk signing Tack McKinley too. And so maybe the combination of those two guys and someone that you draft or a couple guys you draft form that right side of the defensive line across from Garrett. I don't think it's a clowny come in and save the day type move.

I mean, the Browns, I think under Andrew Barry, have done a nice job this offseason. The way they did last year focusing on tight end and offensive line, this time around, the need on defense was clear. I mean, they were lashed on defense, and they were injured a lot last year, but they have shorted up their secondary. They got Grant Delpit back. I really like the signing of Ronnie Harrison during the year last year. Their secondary looks like a strength right now, and that kind of thing can really help the pass rush. So maybe part of it is, is clowning a better situation than he was in Tennessee or in previous years?

We'll wait and see, but, you know, he's going to a pretty good team where I think he is being put into a position to succeed. And he sounds motivated. I don't know what that means in real life, but listening to him yesterday, he said that the Browns and Andrew Barry were, like, relentless in pursuing him, and that mattered to him. That has to matter, you know, 16 games or 17 games during the season, too. I mean, I think sometimes you look at Clowny, like, is the motivation there? I don't know.

I don't want to speak for him, but he's a player with question marks. I'm not just suddenly, because he's on the Browns, like, doing the thing that a fan does where it's like, hey, you know, he's my favorite player now. I am. I love Clowny. First of all, he's 28. He's been incredibly productive in his career because pressure is production. And to me, he's been one of the 10 best defensive ends over the last years.

Now, the last two years been totally injured. Before that, though, no one played more. So it's always been this public perception. He's playing through injuries, but he played a thousand snaps a year. He was tough. Maybe he is more motivated now. But here's the thing that is, there's a no risk. $7 million is nothing to me.

Capspace is such a waste to me. I still don't get why this isn't like more talked about. Why do six, seven teams, even in this year where the cap went so down, still have more than $25 million in cash space? What is that doing for you? Ultimately, you're not really going to the max of using all the resources you can to make your team better this year and spend all the money you can to win this year. There's no impact on next year.

It's a one million. It's a one year contract. There's no risk to it to all. You're taking a resource and you're doing it with a guy who, who's gotten double-teamed as much in the top five players in the entire NFL since he's been in it, including the last few years. So he's used to those double teams. He's used to winning battles, even if he's not like the best pass-risher in the world. Like, I love it.

Give me some. Listen, this is exactly. I mean, and I'll say the point. I don't want to belabor this. But you're talking about the guy like he's a star, basically. And it's like that, why is he on his fourth team in four years? Why is he struggling to find a job deep? It's for a reason.

And Baldy, like we said, plugged in as anybody. Is this guy doing the right things to be the best version of himself? No one's saying it's a bad signing. I'm not saying it's a bad signing. It's just kind of like buyer beware a little bit. Let's, I don't know, just calm down a little bit about it. See, you're part of the reason, Greg. You're those guys that saying he's like this.

And by the way, he could also be seen. You say, okay, no, it's no risk. It's, you know, it's $7 million. What does that mean? But there's that old term, the old Parcellism. Maybe you can get somebody better in that spot. Someone younger, maybe Clowny at the stage of his career as a progress stopper. That's all.

That's all. We'll see. He's 28. They can still, uh, play the guitar. Draft someone. He can still draft. I love it. I just, I also just like, you love this siding because, uh, I got to do it.

It's good for the podcast. It's good for the podcast. It's good that the Browns are getting so hyped now. Um, every, you know, I got to do a sandwich prop. There's almost only one way it can go, unfortunately. It's only fair that I do a sandwich prop. Uh, it just makes so much sense. So I'm going to set.

uh go get my lunch prop and you guys could take me up on it if you i don't want it to be sacks i don't want sacks it's going to be sacks okay no i don't want so don't do it don't take it i'm going to set the over under he finishes below oh it's a tough one and then and greg so high on him so he's not a big second i mean i give me four to a half i'll go four and a half okay i'll take four and a half I mean, you said it. If he hits five sacks, you guys get the sandwiches. He finishes under.

If he finishes under, you guys owe me. You're taking me four and a half. You better take that. I mean, that is a low number there, Mark. I'll take you. I mean, I could see it go either way, but why not take you on it? Sure. I mean, it would be amazing to win.

I thought you were going to go like double digits. I mean, he's never had 10. So, I mean, to act like, I can't set it at eight and a half or something. I'm going to go on the low end. I know he's intangible guy Hurry But wait till three of them come on Zach Wilson Then you're going to feel your sandwich bet

Gosh, we are going on too long Baldi did mention how teammates like love playing with I do remember being there when he was the Kind of the leader of them winning their first Playoff game in franchise history And I think his teammates love him It's not like a guy like I don't think it's like you're adding something

That's bad to a locker room by any means I think players are impressed by him and he he was like he was the guy there j j watt was hurt and he he took over and won him a playoff game meanwhile seahawks fans are saying why don't you talk about our overhyped veteran pass rusher that we just got alden smith formerly of the cowboy signs a one-year contract with the seahawks uh you know here's another guy that depending how you look at the tape and what numbers you look at had a nice season with the cowboys last year he did have a three sack game early on but finished with five, did get to the quarterback, Greg, with some regularity, maybe wore down as

the season went along, but played a lot of snaps for that Cowboys team, which I think surprised people. Do you think this is an impact signing for Seattle? I think it's worth a shot because they've left themselves a little thin. He definitely wore down. So maybe he'll do better, you know, in a lesser role. I know Seahawks fans are strangely excited about this defensive line. It's Puna Ford. It's L.J. Collier, their first round pick, who's been okay, and not really great. But then you got Dunlop. You got Alton Robinson, who's shown some things.

You have a second round pick, Taylor, who didn't do anything last year, Daryl Taylor, Benson, Mayoa. And then you add Smith to this. Like, Seahawks fans don't tell them that this isn't one of the highest potential defensive lines in the league, which I don't quite get. It's like a lot of people, definitely. And he's one of them. I don't know if I'm buying it. and other signings. Cordor L. Patterson, he finds a new home.

He lands with the Falcons on a one-year, $3 million contract. Interesting to me that Patterson, and I understand, and by the way, the graybeards are flying off the board now. This is the week where it's happening. I got a handful in the last couple days alone. They wait for your article to come out.

I know, and I really, I honestly do appreciate it, NFL, our league. But it does surprise me. I know he's not a dynamic. wide receiver and a running back, maybe he's a gadget guy. So he's not going to ever be a linchpin of your offense necessarily, even if that's what I was asking of with the graybeards. But just the impact that he has on special teams,

that's such a big part of football. And having a guy at that, it's to me a big bargain for the Falcons, a big ad at this juncture and free agency. And I just wonder why an elite, a truly elite special teams player who could flip fields and change games, why there's not a bigger market, even if he is somewhat limited in other ways.

I'm with you. I mean, I think, you know, from the Falcon side of things, I love it. I think Arthur Smith is someone that's going to find a way to maximize someone like Cordero-Patterson. And, I mean, his special team's usage is excellent. And I mean, for me, the Falcons are a weird team right now. They have like 55 players under contract. They're about $4 million under the cap. This is my favorite tidbit of the option.

It is a good one. It is a good one. They're in a real, they're in a puzzle because I was reading some stuff where they basically can't even sign their rookie class right now. So it's like you're in a conundrum. There's no other team in that same. I know they'll figure it out, but it's like, I think Arthur Smith is in a tough spot. And it makes me really wonder what they're going to do at number four and what could happen there. I think that is a huge like pivot point in the draft.

The only thing I'll push back on there, Mark, is the narrative that Arthur Smith is going to be the one to unlock Patterson. I don't know if it's going to happen if it hasn't happened yet. But my point being like, that doesn't necessarily matter if he's doing what he's been doing on special teams his whole career. It's to me a great signing whether or not he finally finds a coach that unlocks his true potential as a playmaker. I mean, I thought the market is for special teamers, basically. That's kind of the top of the market for specialized, just special teams guy is about

three million. Like he got five Patterson did when people thought maybe he'd help a little more on offense. I think people have kind of given up on that. It's about what the, I think if the Patriots weren't already paying so many guys on their special teams, two and a half, three million, just to be special. They probably bring him back, but it's like we are, you can only have a couple of those guys at most on your team. All right. That's what's happening in the news. All right, let's get into it. It just went up on NFL.com. And I, Greg, I don't want to start us off on the wrong foot here. But the headline of

this piece and it's a really good one and everybody should check it out general manager power rankings colon NFL draft edition slammer you know that I'm the power ranking power rankings guy oh yeah this doesn't maybe maybe the IP here the intellectual property is property of the old zeuser the old new blue eyes or the new old blue eyes you're giving me some memories of the old power rankings guy uh I did not suggest that I would not have put power rankings Um, last year it was like GM rankings. This time, I'm just looking at the draft only. I decided to do it only back to 2015.

So that, that's on the editors. I'm not putting, I didn't do that. I will be overturning some tables. Of course, Greg is going to throw someone under the bus. But readers in general should know that we essentially never create our own headlines. All right. Well, with that out of the way, Greg, I think things are moderately strained between us now over this.

But since you did throw the editors under the bus, I, again, I will, overturn some tables, even if it's virtually to write this wrong. But in terms of the article you wrote, let's put the focus where it belongs. And I do like, you changed it up this year. No, you're not involving trades when breaking down the merit of GMs. You're not including free agent signings. It's all on draft. And you went all the way down the list. And I get the feeling some GMs might be reading this piece, Greg, and are holding their breath right now. tell us who do you have right now as the best GM in football when it comes to drafting talent.

I went Chris Ballard first. What's your favorite type of fraud? He has the advantage he's only done four drafts. So it's like I think the longer you draft, the more of a chance you have for some clunkers. And even he had a year, his first year there, 2017. It didn't hit a lot of home runs. But if you look at what he did when he first got there,

Darius Leonard, of course, Quentin Nelson, Braden Smith in that same draft, who's a really good starting tackle, Naheem Hines. That's one draft. And then you look at last year, he almost drafted the defensive rookie of the year, Julian Blackman and a couple good offensive players in Pittman and Taylor. Right now his hit rate is like really high.

So I feel like the other GMs looking at this list. Belichick's like, yeah, just let him do it for 10 years and think how good it's going to be then. But right now Ballard is flying high. I think there's nothing you could say against Ballard at this stage. I think what he's done so far is beyond reproach, really. was there someone that was that was close the number two choice here was it close or was he was ballard head and shoulders right now above the rest i got a bit it was kind of like they were all

close when you read one thing i took away after doing this and i you know i went to pro football reference i looked at every draft pick i i had different methods how many starters and pro bowls and different things it's like the difference between the best gms and the worst i you know when it comes to drafting over a long enough timeline i don't think is like that huge So especially the guys near the top of this. Kevin Colbert with the Steelers is awesome. I mean, look at the receivers he's drafted in the last handful of years alone. Juju and Deontay Johnson and Claypool, and you add that to, you know, T.J. Watt and Dupree.

He was right there. The one guy that surprised me being higher than I expected was Jason Light. Maybe I shouldn't be because they just won a Super Bowl. But when you think of Brady and Grunk and the guys they added in free agency being so important. But my, I mean, he drafted so many good players. in Tampa, and his draft last year with Winfield and Tristan Worf's, kind of putting them over the top. Like, he was ranked number three. I think Jason Light, who's seen some low rankings on the GM rankings before, he's going to be pretty excited.

I mean, Light, you know, it's not just recruiting Tom Brady. Like, he set the table there with a really solid roster. And, you know, we've talked about it on our show that how many good defenses existed last year in the NFL, two or three? I mean, most of them feel like, you know, pushovers for the most part. part. The buck's defense was a total game-changing unit. And so light deserves a lot of credit. Colbert to me, like, I mean, he has been doing it for a really long time. And you talk about, like, you know, Ballard having a shorter track record, but a successful one. The Steelers have been mighty for so long under him. And he has become, like, the wide receiver drafting wizard.

And I just think he's been an incredible asset to them. And like, as consistent as you could hope for from the GM position. Is there somebody, Greg, can I look at, I look at this list. And I'm scrolling and I'm scrolling and I'm scrolling and I'm like, where's Belichick? Where's Belichick? 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 18 on this list. Bill Belichick was, first of all, as a Patriots guy, how hard was that for you? And that's out of 23. I mean, nine guys didn't even count because they're brand new and they've only done one draft.

I mean, did that surprise you or did that kind of just, did that make sense to you as you did the exercise as confirmation that he's really struggled in this. category in recent years. It didn't surprise me because, you know, just being a fan, like, think of who are the good draft picks they've had. Joe Tuny. That was pretty good, but he's, he's no longer on the team. That's not against him. Shaq Mason and some other okay picks. I had to go back to Tray Flowers. I did my best pick, worst pick. I had to go back to 2015 and went Tray Flowers as like the best pick. They had those years, you know, they had because of suspension, they lose a draft pick and then they trade out.

They haven't had a first round pick three times, but their picks have been pretty bad. I mean, the second round defensive back picks, I just want to read them off. And all these picks were guys almost exactly that everyone watching the draft was like, really? All right, here are some defensive backs just since 2015 they have taken in the second round. Jordan Richards, Cyrus Jones, Duke Dawson, Joanne Williams, and Kyle Dugger. I like Dugger, by the way. He was a rookie last year.

But the other four, they gave them absolutely nothing. So if the Patriot strategy is load up on second round picks because they're cheap, like they've swung and missed so many times. And also, like, when you lose 14 first round picks over a 20-year period for various cheating offenses, it's going to make your job harder. It's just there's no way around it. That's a fair point. I mean, also they've been picking.

Their first-round pick has essentially been a second-round pick for so long. I mean, some of these GMs where the team hasn't advanced as quickly as you'd like are picking in the, you know, 10 to 15 slot. You know what? Colbert got it done. I mean, he's picking late. They've had a few whiffs, too, though. But, I mean, like, Belichick, I think it is just the pure drafting because you want to talk about team building and leadership.

I mean, Belichick is second to none. I struggled. My eyes almost blew up on a list where Belichick is two spots removed from Ryan Pace. I just struggle with the concept of it. But I see it's basically essentially on who they've drafted. And the Patriots, they've struggled in that area. There's no question about it. People like to get on Belichick for, oh, he hasn't been that great a draft.

He was a, they were a very good drafting, I would say, until this run. Julian Edelman, seventh round pick. It's sort of falling apart ever since the draft where they traded up. People forget for Hightower and Chandler Jones and drafted them together. And since then, they have had trouble. Like, Howie Roseman's another guy. Like, I've done these GM rankings for years. And Roseman and Belichick, one year I think we're one too.

And Belichick's always won. And it was just like the body of his work over 20 years. and Roseman was always high. The Eagles were even worse in this exercise. I mean, the best player they've drafted that I could come up with in the last, what is it, four years since he took back over or five years since Roseman, like,

got back out of the side of the building he didn't like, was Dallas Goddard. Like the next one was probably Wentz and like Jalen Mills and then a lot of misses for it. I want to be like if we ever, who knows where our career goes from here, but if we ever ended up working for a team website, it was the Eagles. I would demand to be on that forbidden area of the Novacare complex in Philadelphia

where all the ghosts hang out, the ghost of Chip Kelly and old Howie Roseman and that analytical guy that Roseman hated. I just want to be in that like dusty cobweb area of the Novacare complex. I tend to think they would they would place your office as far away from like sort of the nerve center of football activities to begin with. We would be kind of like. We would be Eagles podcasters. I mean, this is kind of a grim reality.

a little bit. You know, Weish is working for Atlanta Falcons.com now or the Falcons, so congrats them. You try telling Baldi to go sit in the office off from the distance. We need, how about, um, I, you know, I guess it's only going to work with, like, the GMs that I praised, um, John Robinson, I put you up at number six. Not a lot of John Robinson love out there, but you put you up, he says, assuming John Robinson watches the show, we love it. How about Jerry Jones?

Like, people make fun of you all the time. You know, you're in the top eight. So, a way to go, Jerry Jones. So if you got any extra scratch sitting around. you need three podcasters to just do like an incredibly um you know positive cowboys podcast we could do that for the right and stephen jones is like can you at least give me a slash and put me in the conversation i know i don't know i don't know what to do there it's probably not really jerry jones at this point but you don't really know like the guy that cleans jerry's

glasses get him on a slash there finally right john gruden Mike mayock dead last now listen then I get it, but I also don't get it because there has been, here's the thing. We talk about this sometimes. We're talking about Cliff Kingsbury, for instance, and whenever I say he's on the hot seat this year, you say, well, when you look at what they've made progress since he's been there. So maybe this isn't a playoffs or bust for a clip, and maybe you're right about that. With the Raiders, he inherited an awful team, John Gruden, and he rebuilt it to the point where they are very competitive.

They've failed in recent December's, but I feel like there's more foundation since he's been there than there was when he came aboard, but you have him dead last with Mike Mayock along for the ride, so you don't agree, obviously. Someone had to be last.

Gettleman was second to last. They've only had three drafts since Gruden's been there. They've had like five first round picks in the last two drafts, and the best one is probably Josh Jacobs, who didn't look great last year. You know, overall, I mean, it was okay. Cleland Farrell at number four.

Jonathan Abram was a bit of a fiasco. Like, everyone was kind of like waiting for him to come back from Hard Knocks, and he struggled last year. Like, the guys they drafted who looked good in 2019, didn't look so good in 2020, and they've had some pretty big swings and misses otherwise. So he was hurt because there's only three drafts to judge off of, and they've had a lot of premium picks, and they haven't really hit, like, any big one. I mean, you'd have to look at the Kaleel Mack trade and the hall that they got in return.

And I don't think it looks that impressive. But I'd always have a question with the setup in Las Vegas. You've got Gruden and Mayok. And I mean, Mayok is an alpha male. And, you know, I think he's got a good eye for talent. But Gruden always feels like he'd be a coach that is going to grab as much power as possible. So when you, you know, you have to put them together like you did. I don't know who takes more of the blame there, though.

But I do think they have gotten better. they they he inherited a disastrous raiders team here's my theory by the way i think he's a really good offensive coach so i think he's coaching them up offensively really well and the rest of it you know you take you go off the board a little bit you take feral number four you take rugs ahead of some really talented wide receivers like justin jefferson and cd lamb you're sticking your neck out a little bit you got to be right on those picks it's early but you know the feral and some moves they've made uh in the different defensive front confirm some doubts about feral and yeah rugs needs to hit rugs needs to hit in a big way especially

with justin jefferson being all world uh in his first year in minnesota all right check it out nfl.com slash rosenthal if mayock ever comes back to nfl network i just hope uh he won't know about this but it seems like they always find out somehow we've known you for like 10 years gregg and like half of your relationships are like larry david there's like some uncomfortable nature to them so it won't be i'm sure you'll be okay with it you'll be cool yeah I mean, it's not like he was texting me to go play doubles or anything. He definitely was not. Greg's like our version of Larry David.

All right. Take it. Moving on. Larry David, money. Give me it. All right. We'll work on that as well. All right.

Good talk there. What a show. That keeper. Talked about the mailman. Did some good news. Greg's GM column, fire. And now to cap things off. It is draft season.

so let's get a rising star in the draft analysis game he is a contributor for the athletic he writes draft reports for bleach report and he is a second time visitor to the around the NFL podcast let's welcome back Nate Tice welcome back buddy thanks for having me so two times when is there like a cap after five or like a t-shirt with your name on it after 10 or something like that no there is there is definitely not a cap but we and this kind of this peak the curiosity of our listenership for sure that I kind of let it slip that we do have like a hit it and quit it club people that are one non-hit wonders the check the box club got to yeah and you know if you don't if you don't bring the heat and for whatever reason

you rub us the wrong way whether it's your performance or even your internet connection it could be it then your history so Nate I think this confirms that we view you as an asset on the show And, you know, it's, it's a Mark and Greg will test. The draft blind spot maybe is a little too strong, but also spot on. We need help sometimes. I don't think it's too strong. I think it may be accurate. Yeah, it might be spot on.

It's not our thing. We really take, oh, we take the baton once these guys hit the pro level. But we need help. And we want to talk about some of these prospects that are interesting to you. Let's start at quarterback, Nate. I mean, everybody loves to talk quarterback. Justin Fields is a guy who, it depends who you talk to, you know. Obviously, he's one of those guys that's a somewhat polarizing figure.

Where do you fall on Fields and where he fits into this and whether people will be smacking their foreheads one way or the other a couple of years and now about where he went? Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Fields. I have him. Originally, it was the big four quarterbacks and then Alson, now it's a big five all of a sudden after we just watch Mac Jones for an entire year, but also now everyone wants to love them for this past month. But I feel that two overall, or two overall, like, just prospects and also just behind Trevor Lawrence. And I think he's closer to Trevor Lawrence, who I do view as truly a generational quarterback prospect. I view fields as closer to him than any of the other quarterback prospects.

Like I am, I am extremely high on him. I just think he kind of, he checks all the boxes, especially as a modern quarterback. And not everyone wants to talk about, oh, yeah, he's big he's athletic the classic trait stuff but he's just so intelligent and just what he does every every week weekend week out what he was doing with the Ohio state offense because it's just such an aggressive offense that's very down the field very very just attacky attack I mean actually it's a if you guys remember but the late Danny green and my dad's offenses in Minnesota like those type that type of scheme just everything's down to field down to field down to field and he's so accurate at all three levels that's what stunned me I had heard of Justin Fields you guys said oh yeah I we don't

focus on these guys until they're the NFL. I'm about a half step better than you guys. I watch Wisconsin football games, a couple other big games, and that's about it, like 10 college games a year, basically. And so I was like, all right, what's the hype on this guy? I watched him. I was just shocked how accurate he was. And I mean, it's all three levels, and he has the athleticism and the body control to kind of like, even when he's off balance or anything like that, still putting on the money. So I think he really is almost as complete of a package as you can get at the quarterback position. I love it. I mean, he does throw dimes. That's the thing, like, you watch him. I'm no draft Nick, but it's like 55 yards down the field. Like, it's nothing on the spot. Like, accuracy should be the number one thing. And it's funny, I've watched what's happening this week in the cognizanti. And it was predictable. They're getting to the point where I at least felt like I was thinking about a couple weeks ago, which was just like, well, maybe let's not spend all this time killing the Mac Jones pick before they wait.

they make it for the 49ers because it's like what i mean granted a lot of pre-draft process you know talk is like a waste of time i think the fact that there was no combine here like this was the time of year by the way our friend chris wesley he hated this time here because it's like it's a lot of hot air it's a lot of narratives changing without anything changing but my thing was kind of like okay we have all these smart people you're watching justin fields he's a pocket guy he can throw off platform he's accurate i don't know maybe the 49ers don't want him maybe they do but like let's see what happens before we kill it and maybe by the end of this process they do take them and everyone's like oh yeah actually that makes sense like are you with me are you with me that they could do

that or that they could take tray lance and that maybe this is just like a whole bunch of people being wrong by the way adam schfter and rapaport are often wrong on like predicting where the draft guys are going to go it's just a fact i plug my fingers in my ears and just go as soon as i have my opinion on a player i just go la la la la la la la because it's just like what what is a pro day in shorts gonna tell you like why does that change anything we we overestimate how much that change maybe it does i mean for some decision makers sadly but it's like what what changes with these guys we have the film on them already i do think it is a smokescreen i do think that three they're going fields or lance it's just so it just doesn't make sense to me like you just watch these guys

and you're like i get it mac johns is a fine which one do you think if if you had to guess because, like, Lance is a bit of a mystery to us. I think Fields is the pick, but or what they would have above, but I can see the argument for Lance. And Lance, I compare to Donovan McNabb. Like, if you want to get like a little close your eyes, like kind of like picture of what a player he is, even the over to exaggerate over the top delivery, like watch them throw.

Like, and you guys will know, you know the time period. You'll be like, yeah, and he wears number five too. So that also adds to it. So it's like, oh my God, this guy's a lot like Manette. He's big. he's like about 6-2 in change but he's thick he's a very well-built all these guys are well-built except you know Zach Wilson's a little skinnier but it's I think it's fields that's a personal thing but if they went Lance there I get it like because his upside is just huge and he's

Lance is so much more he's an unprecedented kind of prospect fcs all that stuff you guys have heard it even if you're not paying attention to it it's that he was so much more intelligent and more polished than I was expecting when I was watching him he he makes it just and protections he um which like you can tangibly see it like you can act it's not me just guessing it's like you watch him he's communicating and then after the fact you hear stories about like no that's him communicating he's changing the protection points and he was doing that as a retro freshman which is just like holy crap like that is like some really really interesting stuff to watch and he's just a very mechanically sound he's almost sometimes a little too robotic like he's like too

well coached like he's like okay get to the first read okay now to the second read okay it has to be it up a little bit but man he he has a lot of tools to work with he's supposed to be an outstanding kid you can see the intelligence every time he's playing and that's really cool so he's a little less of a project than even i was expecting when i was first watching him but he still is a little bit just you know adjustment to the speed of the game but i i think it's fields or lance because i just can't see the move up for mac jones who who i think is more like a chat pennington type than a guy that's like a MVP type candidate or a guy that's like an all pro pro pro bowl candidate year after year nothing wrong with chad pennington before the show yeah no chat slander on this that was

it's a compliment and a dis that's the thing it's like no i hear i know what you're saying yeah i know but that's why i'm trying oh man but i should i hate that i'm saying this but people on twitter like took that as a diss i'm like have you guys watched chad pennington do you remember chad pennington like that was a high compliment he was good he was good yeah he was good he was good but that's that's a good that's a good little snapshot in your head that what i kind of project him as more of like a number eight number nine seven best quarterback in the league good It can be very good with a good system around him where it kind of has a year way

as a Pro Bowl year with a really good team around him. You know, but it's, that's his upside. You sound like you're talking about Andy Dalton. A little bit. Mark, what were you going to say, Mark? Well, I was, first of all, I am mystified by the concept of the Niners having to delve into smoke screens

when they're sitting at number three. I mean, it's one thing if you, that to me, that's the whole super thing, but I would ask this almost on behalf of Dan and Jets fans. Like, it's kind of ticketed that it's Zach Wilson to the Jets. I wonder, one, if that could change during this process. We're getting close to the draft. So maybe it's just their guy.

But if you're the Jets and you're sold on Zach Wilson, what about him could sell you over fields, over Lance, over the rest of these guys? Because, I mean, it just seems like a foregone conclusion that it's Lawrence and then Zach Wilson. And are the Jets that sure? They seem like they are, right? I actually did say to somebody actually literally yesterday. said if joe douglas with those this was the biggest smokescreen ever and joe douglas

ended up taking like fields at two i'd be like he'd be like my favorite gm right because like just to be able to like just get everybody off the smoke up of the scent and just also goes completely different um wilson is he's exciting that i'm going to openly admit that he's a very exciting player i have a lot more negatives on him than the other three guys that we've already talked about well we didn't really talk to lawrence but you get it but it's it's with wilson it's uh you know creating the play creating up the platform stuff he is accurate like i do see a lot of the accuracy my knocks with him was that he you know he's skinnier he's under 210 pounds um he he he played like like 214 as pro day but whatever that's water weight he you know he's skinny and if you're under

210 pounds if you look at the history of quarterbacks that are under 210 pounds i i hate that making such a big deal about weight but it actually holds up you have to be a freak athlete like Vic or Lamar or Mark Bulger and that's it like that that's it if you're under 210 pounds and that's a six round pick I think Bulger was what was your weight at Wisconsin you were you know famously Russell Wilson's backup with it were you above 210 I oh yeah I was 232 I hung out with the lineman so there was a lot of a lot of beer well a unhealthy eating I mean you know point to that to that point Nate so it you played D1 college ball is that something where you know these guys fill out uh and now i'm talking as jet span a little bit the idea like he's not going to

probably be a two 10 five years or or certain body types is he just always going to seem to you or probably end up as an undersized guy in terms of the weight i think it feels like it so that could be addressed well you know how like derrick cars built you know he's kind of thin like don't come at jack wilson right now Nate then got his back up already i see that i see that but that is that that's a great great point i think he is maxed out as far he he can get stronger and you can get it up to you know two eight to ten but it's more like that's just a snapshot of his frame and it's like he is he is skinny i hate that i talk about like all these like body type stuff but it does hold up it's just like the skinny he has kind of

that skinny leg frame where it's like okay he seems to be already kind of there's not like a lot of room for growth that i can see yeah but what about what about tom brady's combine photo huh what is it going to be that accurate that like every single ball is going to be on the money I mean, I'm a little uncomfortable, yeah, with this skinny shaming. It's tough out there for us small-frame guys. Mark knows what I'm talking about. Like, we were getting some nice swag. You know, thank you to the podcast department.

Awesome. Like, we got some swag in the mail. But it's like, if you're asking for that men small, they don't got it. They don't even have that as a box. Well, hold on. They're going to go straight to medium. It's going to be baggy. You wouldn't be small, Mark, but I would be.

And it's like, no, we don't have that. We're the medium. Go ahead. I'm a bona fide medium, and I view my body as, you know, just maybe a tick left of pristine. So I don't, don't bump me in with your business. Excel and proud here. Nate, so let's move off quarterbacks for a second. I got back down to Excel recently.

I'm so proud of myself. Like, I'm so proud of myself. It's so hard getting 2X stuff to, like, fit properly. And also it's like Excel. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's nice. That's nice. It's not everything's baggy. It's like, this is great.

Yeah, T-H-I-C-C. No, so wide receivers. Let's talk wide receivers here. Jamar Chase, obviously, everybody's in love with him. Devante Smith, Jalen Waddle, the two Alabama receivers. You see how in year one, these guys can hit and become immediate playmakers and stars, as we saw with Justin Jefferson, just to name one example last season. Outside those three guys, I just mentioned, is there someone else in this draft class

or a couple guys, however many you wanted to talk about, that jump out at you that could be immediate contributors. Oh, yeah. One of my favorite players in the draft period. And actually my receiver two ahead of Chase, which is kind of crazy. It's splitting hairs is Rashad Bateman from University of Minnesota. And I love Bateman. I think he is just like a no-brainer going to be a contributor day one type of player

and has the upside to be more. Like I am a big, big fan. of his just the polish he brings the route running he's doing 301 level stuff um as a true junior actually really as a true sophomore was his real tape this year was weird he had covid he he opted out originally played a couple games then he opted out again like kind of a weird season for him but his progression he's super young too he's kind he's 20 i think he just turned 21 he's only a couple months younger than jimar chase who everyone brings up his age this guy was dominating too just but he was just you know he's a couple months older i should say than chase and but just the that

polish that right away he's going to be a route running technician my original comparison for him was Alan Robinson he weighed a little less he weighed 190 on his pro day and I was like but then he had 33 inch arms so I was like okay there we go all right there was the size that I was seeing so really the comparison more is more like a Calvin Ridley type but you know but just give me like a little snapshot in your head of what his type of style is he can play inside and out like I keep bringing up his route running because it is it's really impressive to see a guy doing that at a young age at college. And he's just a guy that does

everything well or better. Everything's good or better. There's no like true, true weaknesses, which is really cool to see. A lot of his issues or like what people's concerns were with his speed. And I was just laughing. I was like, he's from Georgia, the state of Georgia and he was a late bloomer and then he went to

Minnesota. And I keep making a joke. It's like, just because he went above the Mason-Dixon line doesn't mean he got slow. Like, you know, he's still has, he's still fast. Like he timed a 4-3-9 as pro day he's more like a four four eight four five two type of guy but it's it's not a weakness it's just like he's not give it to the patriots then oh yeah they can't get great fit i mean my dream scenario is is definitely fields and they like trade up to nine with detroit or whatever detroit or

whatever the number and they go get just in field but backing that up um you know try try another receiver give it give up on keel harry this is a deep receiver draft listen to make nate tice i mean you're saying he's up there with Jamar Chase. Some people think he might not even get drafted in the first round. So that is a bold take. This is much like when our friend Spice Rack came on and went hard on, was it, Jonathan Williams. And really his reputation as a draft analyst was going to be based on that player. So if Tarnish beyond recognition.

Right. If you want to be on the three-timer club, Nate, I think it's going to really depend on. You're going to have to hit. It's going to be one year later. Like we have to wait all the way. So it's like we're proof in the pudding. No, I just, honestly, I am a believer in this guy. I just think he, the qualities are bringing.

But actually, that's one of my favorite fits is the Patriot fit because especially with the guys they signed this off season, his skill set is just like a perfect synergy for what they need because he can be like a true, true X and then move around on other, on like third down, just like Devante Adams does, comes in the slot on third down. Like he can do that stuff. And I think he can do it early on. So that's why I'm just so high on him, as you guys can tell. But it's good.

I can't wait to. I'm glad I stuck my. flag and somebody already and now reputation's staked on that that's great i have a weird one for you like like so one thing i've heard little whispers of like over the years is that you know society's changing um you know a lot of a lot of guys just aren't as tough as they used to be we don't have as many like farm boys and stuff do you worry about the future of for instance this offensive linemen in general where that position comes from like is there at some point um a scarcity of people willing to do that as their career and really even just have sort of the physical

body for it. Or is that just hogwash? A little bit of hogwash. I think as long as the money's good, it's going to, especially when tackle started getting paid a lot. Actually, it's kind of interesting. If you asked me that five years ago, maybe five, six years ago, I actually have been like, yeah, I could see the concerns in these last couple draft classes and who's entering the league, especially last year's tackle draft. You can see like an influx of talent. More athletic guys are playing offensive line. It's very interesting.

More guys that I think would have been pegged as defense alignmen. Guys are like, hey, we can make this work. You don't have to be 330 now. You can be 305 and just be more athletic. The league is just becoming more and more an athletic league. I mean, it always is. But just more, I mean, look at linebackers. Like that's the number one position to look at it.

But I think more athletic guys are playing the, O-line. And also in college, college coaches got so excited about running as many ball plays as possible, running 120 plays, especially in the Pac-12 and the Big 12. And then now they've kind of realized and found that sweet spot of 80 to 90 plays. Because when they were running 110, 120 plays, they weren't teaching the O line, like, don't finish. Just come back. Get the next play. Get the next play. That's, I mean, I swear to God, that was their coaching point. It wasn't like, finish and grind him to the ground. And like, you know, like, get back in a huddle. You know, like, it was more like, go, go, go, go, go, go. It was just trying to run a fast break offense. So no

coaching was happening. And I think now it's like, okay, it's come back a little bit. It's swinging back just a little bit where these guys actually have to play football. And honestly, and the other position kind of changes, these top corners are getting bigger and bigger. You should see these top two guys this year. And I think it's because these guys, since middle school, the NFL's been a passing league since these guys were in middle school. So these guys would have been receivers. But now there's six one. They go, no, play corner. You're going to get paid if you play corner. These guys are getting smarter about that. And just like, when all their trainers and all their family and friends around them,

they're guiding them to different positions. Nice to try, Mark. You tried to bury the millennials. Surprising move by Mark, but it didn't work. And thank you, Nate, for sticking up for them. Yes. Exactly. Greg, defender of millennials.

That's why you had me on the show. Yeah, he's a cool millennial jacket. It fits. It fits. Nate, we feel smarter after having you on the show today. And thank you again. And we're all, we're Sean Bateman. And it's all going back to Bateman.

And Rashad Bateman is what it's going to come down to here. And Fields being closer to Lawrence than he is to Wilson and Lance. So definitely some Justin Fields. This is good. That could save you if Bateman doesn't work out. You just got a hit on one of them. Just one. All right.

Got my two favorite players now. Check out Nate Tice at Nate underscore Tice on Twitter. and follow all this stuff, obviously, a man who is plugged in and understands the game. Nate, thank you for joining us, and we'll talk to you later. Thanks, Nate. Thank you. All right, there he goes. Good to have Nate.

Good show. A lot of stuff there. So, again, Zach Kiefer at the Athletic, if you haven't seen the story, go read it on Chris Wessling. Very happy how that turned out. And we'll be back on the network side Friday with, of course, the around. on the NFL broadcast. Please check that out. And then back on Monday

with another week of podcasts as we get closer to the draft. So thank you. Anything you wanted to add there? You get a little hum there. Shout out to Stephen Cohen, the editor at The Athletic, who is a listener.

And I know had exchanged messages with Wes over the years too and was a big part of that article. Yes, we love Steve. He's a good man, good dude. And I know he played a role in the article seeing the light of day as well. So thank you to Stephen.

All right. Good stuff. This Dan Hans is signing off Quiet Storm, the old boss, and Ricky Hollywood behind the virtual glass. Until Monday, heat the call. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you, don't let them down. Donate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit.

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