NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Rich Eisen & No no no don't do that!

Episode Date: April 22, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news in the NFL. First, Rich Eisen joins the show to preview the draft and his annual 40-yard dash benefiting the relationship between St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and NFL PLAY 60: Run Rich Run. Rich also sits in to discuss the Deebo Samuel trade request and a wild NFL offseason. There is "zero chance" Steve Keim trades Kyler Murray, and A.J. Brown is holding out of voluntary workouts hoping for a new contract. Then, the heroes run through draft scenarios that make them say, "No, no, no, don't do that!"NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. Experts in Handing! From the Chris Wesleying podcast studio, it's Around the NFL. I'm Dan Hansis, and I'm in a room filled with some heroes. Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler, whatever.

To my right. To my right is the face of NFL Network, the first voice you ever heard. Yeah. And the last one you'll ever hear. That's just a spoiler to our listeners. Oh, my God. Rich Eisen, welcome to the Chris Wesleying podcast studio. How are you?

It's an honor to be here in this chair, in this studio. This is very cool. Thanks for having me. Oh, is that, do you play that song for it? No. For only one person. Most people get kind of like this sexy song buildup, but that was more of like a royal. Thank you.

It was regal. How are you? I can't believe this place. This is pretty cool, man. I know I've seen it. I've seen it now that I'm actually sitting in it. You're also the benefit of sitting, for those that are watching on YouTube, if you look at the screen, you look like a normal-sized human. And Greg looks like a newborn child.

Just come from the womb. That's pretty much life-size. And the ATN manger. So here's a little backstory for people that don't know. Yes. That Rich Eisen many first at the network and the media group, but also the first podcast. Yes. Trust me, a facility like this one did not exist.

No, we said that back at the old studio. You mean the converted closet. As Sheck called it Studio 66. Yes. You really got that studio built. We would not have gotten around the NFL crank in as much as we did because I think it took Rich Eisen to get what that was. Rich pulls the levers.

I could tell you the story. I could tell you the story how it got started. And it's amazing now that there's a studio and many podcasts that are created around here. It was born out of me seeing the proliferation of podcasts and sports podcasts and the success of it. and you know total access being a certain 60 minute construct in which there was some possibility for a celebrity interview and we would have folks come and pick games a celebrity game picking contest but there was just five minute conversation and out there was no really opportunity to have long-form conversations which is what I wanted to do so I went into the office of then NFL network there was an amazing media group yet NFL network chief Steve Bornstein who has been my long-term rabbi I told him he's smart enough to have hired me twice once at ESPN and once here there you go and I went in I told him

my idea of of a podcast and I wanted to do it his answer was how much is going to cost and I'm like nothing he goes go ahead that's what it was that's how it started go ahead that was that's similar that's similar to our origin story here where we pitched our news boss of like, can we just do it around our actual job? And he said, yes, as long as one person stays on the desk at all time. So one person would be down in the newsroom while the others would be in the studio. It's a great setup. You know, it's about optics.

You know, it's optics. That only lasted about two or three shows. Well, it's because you guys are a terrific listen and a great watch and a terrific podcast. Thank you. So in success, you start, you know, hopefully doing what you want to do. And so, and, and it's just pretty cool. Like, again, I do walk by here and I see Chris's name on the wall, and I can't imagine what it must feel like for you guys to come to work here every day

and say that you're coming from the Chris Westling podcast studio. It must be pretty sweet. It's, it's special to us. And being able to, that's the first thing we say every episode. And it's like he stays with us. And, you know, your podcast, you eventually kind of spun into The Rich Eyes and Show. Yes, sir. people can get that um which we appeared on i know the ratings for that particular episode you guys

you guys are difficult to book you know honestly you guys you're always here you're always doing something but seeing you hear that reminds me of you come back and when me and chris did a spot there yes and i remember kisha came to take pictures oh right and it is a great memory because you guys sent a car for him and that see was really cool he thought that that was really cool you sent a car for him we had the have the dressing room in the back and she has lots of great pictures from that day it just it just felt like he felt like wow this this is crazy you know we start we me and him started knowing each other back at rhoda world and here i am taking a car and we're on tv he had we hadn't done much stuff like that before

and he was he always had this feeling of like can you believe how lucky we are and just kind of tickled over what had happened with his career. So just, yeah, bringing that back up. That was a great memory. I think the first couple of times I split you guys up into twos, right? Right, that's what it was. I think they came the day before or after. And yeah, I mean, Greg and I don't get along.

So that was, it was good to have Dan and I's pair. I got the heads up. I got the heads up. It's similar to a story I can tell, uh, spent myself into. I'm sorry. I'm a control freak, man. I'm difficult with the A's. I'm better at the cues.

But, um, so, um, One of the first Pro Bowls we ever covered on NFL Network. So let me get this right. It was after the second Super Bowl we ever covered, the Eagles and the Jacksonville Eagles and the Patriots. Last time we've seen an actual repeat winner in the NFL, as a matter of fact. So we went from Jacksonville, Florida to the Pro Bowl. So we stopped all we took a flight from Jacksonville to Atlanta,

then Atlanta to Denver, and then Denver all the way over to Hawaii. And I'll never forget, Schaefter, like, and he doesn't drink. He wore these, like, almost famous type shades on the plane, and we were giving all sorts of crap. And it was just great going all the way over there. We get there, and it's for the second year that we've done this. We stayed at the Pro Bowl hotel where all the players were staying. And we set up a main set at the end of the practice.

field where the Olani Hotel, if you want to take your kids to a Disney hotel, I guess over in Hawaii, currently as this place doesn't, this whole thing doesn't exist anymore. So we had our main set at the end of the practice field where the AFC and the NFC would switch off practicing depending on the hour. And then we would have a set by the pool where all the guys hung out and then a set on the beach. And the set on the beach was like underneath this like Tiki Hut and I had a long lounge chair. And another lounge chair set up for the guest. And we would sit there literally in like a prone state and I would interview them. So this time, though, we had two long chairs set up for the just freshly losing Philadelphia Eagles who were sending everyone over. This again, back in the day where the Pro Bowl would have. After, yeah. And it would be after and it would take a couple days and then they'd get there. so it was going to be for Tio and Donovan McNabb to appear together

and we didn't know that in the interim of us flying from Atlanta to Denver to Hawaii that Tio had let it be known on a radio show that Donovan McNabb vomited in the huddle when everything was going down for the Super Bowl right and thus had no idea that this was sparking and then all of a sudden, T.O. said to our producers, he's not coming if Donovan's going to be there. Donovan's not coming if T.O. is going to be there. And that was the first indication we had that some trouble was in the Andy Reid paradise. And then, of course, the sit-ups and the next question. We keep our attention just honest and open. That's my long-winded story. To extend it, I'm Andy Reed and I don't know who's T.O. and who's Knav. I'm T. I'm T. I'm T. I'm T. I'm

T.O, the Hall of Famer, I think. Oh, that's why it's a difficult relationship. You can see. All right. Let's, let's, all right. I'm sorry to take you down that long road. No, that was, you know.

You're a life for 2003, I believe it was, the first time you, uh, started, uh, this network, uh, the first voice, anyone heard. Almost 20 years then. And now, coming up. For the 17th time. Yeah, 17. Rich.

Yes. Uh, run, rich, run. Yes. A 40 yard dash in your suit. Of course. fitting the relationship between St. Jude, Children's Research Hospital, NFL play 60. Yes. 17 years.

I have two questions. Okay. One, any significant injuries in the first 16 years? Yes, I blew out my hamstring one year, running it for a third time. I remember that happening, and I remember saying, that's it. I guess we can't air it. Mayok said, you have to air it. You have to do it.

Like, this is part of what you do. Like, you can't just not do it. because you blew your hamstring. Right. And he convinced me that, okay, we'll show it and we'll do it. And then when we aired it, he started making merciless fun of them saying that there was a sniper in the dome and took me out because I went straight down. But it's a memorable one now. Now you got it as a story.

He was right. But he was right. Like, because I think part of the popularity of this is that I am now a 52-year-old man who is running in a story. suit. It looks absurd. The simulcams make it even more funny. Like the simul cams gave everything new life. It brought a slapstick aspect to it. It brought sort of an intergenerational aspect to it. And without the simulcams, I think the run probably would have run, if you will, its course. But the simulcams at the combine gave it kind of new life. And here we are nearly two decades later, you've raised millions of dollars for St. Jude. My part two or B of this is

typically at the combine. Now we're doing it in the draft. You live in Los Angeles. You have all the training facilities here. You're getting out of the winter and being in Indianapolis, eating those steaks and late nights. I imagine even though you are older now, you have a chance to run a better time because you're in a healthier place physically and mentally. Yes or now? Well, just like everything in the NFL media world, you're overthinking it. It's just a natural, I guess, evolution of this thing in a way. It was born out of boredom, like everything in the television business in 2005. Especially in Indianapolis.

Oh, gosh. It was in the old RCA dome, and we were doing NFL Total Access that night, the we being me and Terrell Davis. And we were just done pre-recording all the interviews of all the coaches, were never going to stick around till 8 o'clock at night to do their interviews live. So we would, you know, when they were done with their combine day, they'd come up to our set position, which was in a suite in the old RCA dome. And we would record the interviews.

And then we would wait around to do Total Access live. So Terrell Davis and I are just sitting there. And I remember, we're just sitting there. And I'd look down at the field and saw the 40-yard dash line and it just popped in my head as we were getting like an hour and a half away to being on the air. I said, how fast do you think I can run the 40? And this is the conversation you could hear the buzz of the lights. There was nobody in the building.

And everyone was on break because we were an hour and a half to air. And he just laughed at me. And I'm like, no, really, how fast do you think I can run the 40? And he said, Rich, you can't run any. You're not going to run the 40. And I, can I curse on this? Oh, yeah. I said, fuck you.

Watch me go do it. I literally said that to, Terrell Davis. And we laughed. He thought I was joking. I went straight down on the field and ran it in my suit, tie, and lace up dress shoes and ran it in 6.77 seconds. And I had no idea anyone was recording it because everyone was on break, but I had no idea that somebody was in the truck, hit record, and somebody was recording it on the field and shot it, had no idea it was being shot. And later on that night, at the end of the live Total Access, they showed me running, and they clocked me at 677.

Ha, ha, ha, isn't that funny? Next day, when we're interviewing people, three different people requested to see it because they'd seen it on Total Access the night before. Mike Holmgren, Joe Gibbs, and Matt Millen. Yeah, Matt Millen, who was the GM at the time of the, you know, prior to the Millen Man March in Detroit. And so he asked to see it.

They asked to see it, and Joe, Gibbs told a story of a guy that used to come out of the stands at one point, you know, and suit and tie at an old, like, training camp that I guess Paul Brown used to run. I mean, some crazy-ass story. And found it funny. All of them found it funny. And so we aired it over and over again that first combine. Next year I show up and there's Mike Holmgren standing there at the 40-yard dash line as I walked

in RCA dome, because that's where the doors, the revolving doors in the old RCA-Dome, which is kind of like the carrier dome held up by air. Right. He would walk through and he was standing right there. He goes, you're going to run the 40 yard dashing? And I'm like, no, I don't think so. And he goes, why not? You got to beat your time?

And I'm like, okay. And he goes, just don't hurt yourself. So I did it again. And they reported it again and showed it again. And then I did it again. And I did it again. And just as just, I just to keep it going. And then the simul cams kept it with a new life.

It kind of gave it much more viral. aspect to it and then the charitable component was added and now I'm here in LA because the combine as was canceled as you know in 2020 and then last year it was like okay where there was no well the combine 2020 went down 2021 was canceled so how am I going to do it and I just didn't want to give up and neither did anybody at St. Jude and neither did anybody here at NFL network and so nobody wanted to give up and they're like well what can we do and we called up sophy and said we want to come and then tracy proman from the legends community said i'll get involved and anybody who knows her knows when she gets involved things happen and um then mark lorry who was the uh now the owner of

the timber wolves who two years before it reached out to me saying uh he had no idea what i was doing but he was just looking for a charity to hook up with, you know, wanting to expand his philanthropy. And he was the chair of the e-commerce at Walmart at the time, and he found my run on YouTube. All of these viral videos about running. And he's just like, who is this guy running in his suit and what for? And he learned more about it and reached out to me.

And he's like, I want to run against a, I want to come to Indianapolis and I want to run against somebody, you know, famous in the NFL and we'll raise money for charity. I'll help raise money for your charity. We reached out to Jerry Rice and Jerry Rice said yes. And I told Mark Lurie, you don't want a piece of this guy. And they ran at the combine, just the two of them. And it created a buzz and raised money. So now we expanded it to have more legends come last year. And he brought more people who wanted to be into the philanthropy. And so we ran it eight legends and eight entrepreneurs at the

stadium last year across the street. And then, so this year we're doing it again. So-Fi is not available, believe it or not, because they're changing finally the turf from the Super Bowl. They kept the turf for the Super Bowl down on the ground all the way

to April 7th. Lazy? I guess. I don't know. They're actually giving, they're taking the turf up, they're taking the turf up and they're chopping it up and I guess selling off pieces of it. I don't know. But they're reputing the turf down there, so we couldn't do it there this year, so we're doing it at the Rose Bowl. I do feel like one moral of the story for the listener and children out there and everyone is don't listen to Terrell Davis on any topic

because he could have prevented all this from happening had you taken advice. Yes, I would agree that the moral to take away is that Terrell Davis is a naysayer. And the A-Rod, you know, they say he's an owner of the Timberwells. He's not the real owner. No, Mark Lurie is in. You guys, good takeaways from this guy, but that's the answer. And my takeaway is you're running on natural grass turf. Yeah, we are.

That's, I feel like that's a problem. I don't know. I'll let you know. Plus, the turf at the, they were talking about it at the combine this year. The turf and Indy was fresh turf and the guys are, man, tell me about it. But to be honest, to be, honest, when you credentialing multiple people to come to the combine is truly the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. We've been down that right. So if we can do it out here and, and, you know, so we're, we're doing it this weekend.

We once had security escort, Connor, or out of the building when he was a guest on our podcast. Oh, is that right? Which one of us would you be, you know, the most terrified, not terrified, not terrified, might not be the word, intimidated to race against. Who do you think would produce the top score? I'm just thinking. I'll sit this one out. I think the little guys have the best chance here. I think Greg Rosenthal has, I think, a little bit of Austin Echler in him, you know?

Yeah. He's got like he's. He'd like to think he does. He could be, you know, he's... Mark likes to bring up his sixth grade cornerback four snaps that he took, but I'm still out there running. I know.

So, yeah, I would go there. But trust me, I'm definitely the slowest guy at the table. When are you going to learn, Mark, whenever you set up these, which one of us is it going to be when it's not you? It always hurts you. Why do you do it to yourself? What is the psychology behind that?

Well, that could be an entire podcast episode. No, I'll tell you what it is, because I have the similar thing with you about nicknames. I've been trying to give Matt Ryan the same nickname for 10 years. And at some point, I'm just feeling the answer that's going to come back one day, the answer I'm looking for. You press on that. I mean, Maddie Ice was a great one right off the bat. No, it's not.

It sucks. What do you know? Why? It's good. Why? Because it's a nickname for a 12-year-old. I know, but people remember it. He drinks beer behind their parents back.

Matty Ice, natural ice isn't even a beer anymore. But it, like, made sense in context and people remembered it. He's a grown-ass man. Look at the guy who showed up in Indianapolis. It's a CEO. E.O. quarterback. You're going to name your What is your name you're pushing? I'm sorry, Rich. For anyone that doesn't know. Oh, it sucks too. It's the

match rule. Okay. No, you don't have to even give it. Okay. It's all right. It's not great. It's not great. I mean, first play of his career bombed. I think Michael Deckins. Has he ever given you feedback on the matrials? He thinks it's terrible. Oh. And the problem is, too, is that after he rejected it, I started chopping it around.

The first person I went to is Stafford having no idea that he and Matt Ryan are tight. So that was a non-starter. And then I went... Re-gifting it almost. Yeah. 100%. Then I went to Mahomes, and I tried the patcherl with him.

That was off of the awful Monday night experience where... We're losing it. No, I think we're still with it, quite frankly. You know, when... Who was doing a Monday night at the time? Oh. Bugger? No.

Why am I playing? I talked too much for a little bit more than a little bit. Tessitore. Yeah. Remember, Tessitator. was calling him Showtime Mahomes I'm like we can't have that we're not going to force that so I try

to force the patrol on him no good he rejected that that's when I went back to Matt Ryan and as you know the Letterman style of humor is to do something over and over and over again umah Oprah umma Oprah right wait rich so but here's the thing with the nicknames yes a good move

for you I feel like unsolicited advice is you had inconvenient truth for Frank Gore I did just stand on that you don't need to think of another nickname I should have just walked right out. No, I, I can't stop. He's just acknowledged. That's it.

I can't stop. All right. Your time is valuable, Rich. We don't. It's not that valuable. Well, how about this? We're going to start the news. I'd love to get your thoughts on Debo.

Because I know you talked about it on the Rich Eisen show this week. And I thought you had some interesting takes on both my Jets and another our Jets, I should say. Let's do it. And another team that you think he fits with. Let's hit the news, Ricky Hollywood. With the third second pick in the 2019, NFL, draft. The San Francisco 49 is select Debo Samuel.

Once by the time, Debo was a second round pick. I never had this production value doing a podcast. Ever. Man. There's people behind a glass. Look at that. Look at this team. They're cutting cameras. I'm not even sure. Oh, unbelievable. Eric, Temposa. It's an all-star crew. Literally. Raver.

There's a ravine back there. Back in the day. Well done. Incredible. So, Debo Samuel. This is where we are in the modern NFL. This stars that are stars with teams out of nowhere. You wake up one morning, they don't want to be there anymore. Samuel has requested a trade from the 49ers.

Rapsheet reported Wednesday. The request was submitted more than a week ago. Not a surprise. The team was aware of Samuel's feelings about his standing with the franchise. The Niners have been Rich trying to reach out, get something done financially. Samuel enters the final year of his rookie contract.

But he's been shutting them down. He wants a fresh start, as we understand. We heard through various reports that the Niners have no intention of trading Samuel and yet, Rich, as someone that's been around this league for a long time now, that doesn't seem to matter as much anymore. It's crazy. It's crazy. The NFL non-playing season, as we call it around these parts, this year has been perfectly summed up. We keep popping the tweet up on the screen on my show. A four-word tweet from Stefan Diggs on the 23rd of March. When Tyree Kill, it was first reported, was wanted out of Kansas City, and it looked like they were about to oblige him. Stefan Diggs tweeted out, the hell going on. That's what he said.

The hell going on. And we keep on going back to that tweet over and over again because the hell is still going on. You know, it's just crazy what's happening, and it's born out of many different things. Started with Brady switching teams and a whole bunch of quarterbacks thinking, well, the way I've done it forever, doesn't have. have to be the way I have to keep doing it. Stafford took that route to the Super Bowl and a championship. Then you start seeing other quarterbacks trying to get out. Now you're seeing wide receivers getting paid like quarterbacks

and certain wide receivers are getting paid like quarterbacks when they don't have the leverage to get out and get paid. Back of, you know, I remember one of the first stories in the history of NFL Network was when Javon Walker wanted to get paid by the Packers. And there was a big stink because Farves like, I think he should be here when he was holding out. And it's just like, hey, Brett, you know, like stick to your business. Right.

That was a solid six-month ordeal. It was huge. Devante Adams had a franchise tag hanging over him, and he still got out, and he still got paid the most money we've ever seen a receiver get paid. So, yes, the landscape is totally changed, and now the wide receiver landscape is fascinating in the fact that now guys who are on the back end of their first contract in the second round, three guys, D.K., AJ, and Debo, wanting to get paid. like Tyreek Hill just got paid

and like Devante Adams just got paid and we'll see if owners will do that. In the same way, we'll see if owners will pay quarterbacks like the Browns are paying Deshawn Watson. They'll pay them. I mean, if they can make them available they'll go get... Fully guaranteed? Maybe not

fully guaranteed. That's what I'm saying. That's what is what Michael Bidwell's on the clock with right now. He's the first one up with the quarterback saying, I want to get paid and the answer's like, of course we'll pay you. But am I going to cut a $200 million check in escrow? I don't know about that. I don't know.

So these are all things working out. The Debo thing in particular, there's three things at play here. One, the Niners can handle. One, the Niners cannot handle. And one that needs some massaging to handle. The one that the Niners cannot handle is if he wants to play somewhere other than California. I mean, that's where the Niners can say, well, we're the San Francisco 49ers. What are we going to do?

We can't fix where we play football, right? The one that the Niners can absolutely handle if it's money. If it's money, they can pay them. The question is, is what if it is the situation of him saying, I don't want to be a running back at the position? You know, our fantastic research staff here at the network sent out a whole bunch of statistics on this subject matter just yesterday. One that jumped at the screen with me is that the first 33 games of his career, he had something like 40 rushes. okay in the last 11 games he had 80 rushing attempts I mean and only 30 receptions it's totally flipped over the last 11 weeks and we played a soundbite on my show today based on debo on my show on November 23rd two days after he led the niners in rushing against the jaguars and he said that um he loved contact and have a problem with contact and I asked him point blank it's one of those things when you watch an interview back and you're thinking, you forget what you asked him, and you're thinking

yourself, please ask him a good question, please ask him a good question. I did get to him. I said, do you prefer to run it or catch it and run it? What do you prefer? And he said, I prefer catching and running it. And so we played that whole soundbite of him saying that he's got a great relationship with Kyle Shannon, and it ended with him saying, I want to catch it and run it. So the question is, what happened between then and now? The 49ers contract offer is what happened. If the contract offer was great off the jump, I doubt any of this is happening. If you pay him like the number one receiver in the league or one of them, then I don't think he's complaining about running. I think I totally agree with you there because that's what, just to bring my, again, another long-winded answer full circle is that the Niners can fix this, address this problem by paying him the money where he doesn't matter what time zone he's in or how many rushing attempts that he's getting, diminishing his ability to maybe get a third contract in his career, which I'm sure.

sure somebody is explaining to him how this all works out. And the time when I spoke to him, when he said that he didn't mind the contact, great relationship with his coach, and I prefer catching and running over running, was that the two days after that 11 game stretch had just begun. So he had not been used significantly at the running back position yet in the manner in his previous 33 years after I hung up the phone from him. So that's my take. I think you're totally right, Greg. I think this is business and I think that's what it's all about. And maybe the differences can be then

reconciled. But it's also different business and that's what I found really interesting about this whole off season. And I think this is the latest part of it. It's like 49ers fans and Titans fans will talk about AJ Brown later with Justin Graver, the Grave digger back there. They're all up in arms. It's like, oh, this is no story because they're not going anywhere.

But these receivers kind of like the quarterbacks are throwing away the unwritten rules. The unwritten rules was like, yeah, you will get paid maybe going into your fourth year if you don't have a fifth year option. But it's after the draft and like that's when we're going to talk and don't make life uncomfortable for us now. But if you're Devo Samuel, it's like, why not? Because I can just go kind of ferret out some contract offer, you know, behind closed doors from a team like the Jets. So I know for damn sure that my value is $70 million

guaranteed $25, $27 million a year. And by putting this out there in April before the 49ers They're even ready. I think they're caught flat-footed here. It's like, why not do that? That's going to make me the most amount of money. So did you just change the T and ATN to tampering? I mean, some sort of behind the scenes. Did you know if the Jets are like going up to Devo Samuels?

Or a team is doing that? It used to be, if you're Debo Samuel, tough cookies, you weren't a first-round pick so you don't get that extra year. You don't get the same contract. You got to wait out this fourth year. Maybe they give you an extension. Maybe they just hit you with the tag. maybe they hit you the tag again.

Now, Mark, things have changed where if the wide receiver has enough leverage, if he's a big enough star, he dictates the terms. And now the Niners have to react off that. Do we want to give him all this money with Jimmy G. Still tying up our salary cap? Or do we look at, look how we got Debo Samuel. He was a second round pick. This is a good wide receiver draft.

We have these teams that are desperate to add somebody like Debo. Do we strike? I'm sure it's whiplash for the Niners who just get out of season where he was a stud of studs. But at the same time, you can get reeled in by the idea of starting fresh without it. Well, it's like the Ronald Reagan trickle-down effect, because you were right. It started with the quarterback seen Tom Brady wield power and then wield fame and glory off of it. And Matthew Stafford's thinking, I can do that. If you're Debo Samuel and you don't react and do the social media thing and scrub the account and wield your public power and become part

of the news cycle and you have other teams interested in your services and you're starting to lobby with the idea of a trading and before the draft, this was a perfectly timed maneuver by Debo Samuel. You look dumb. If you're as valuable as he is and you sit quiet and don't get that money now. Because like the old days was the contract was the contract. Now it's like if you're on fire by the end of year three, you start a war. People have been getting those contracts for a while, I think, to be clear, I think Advo Samuel was going to get offered a nice contract this offseason. It just would have happened in June and July and it would have like slowly crept up from 16 to 19 million.

He's just like, no, I'm going to see if another team wants to give up two first round to give me that money now. He wants to go against somewhere else so you just want to live on the West Coast, pay California taxes. I mean, that could be part of it. Sounds like that's the reporting.

I guess to bring it all together about wanting to get paid after year three and not going to year four is that's what Kyler Murray wants to do because all you got to do is just take a look at Baker Mayfield, who went into year four coming off of the first playoff,

for the Brown since 1994 beating the Steelers and almost taking care of the Kansas City Chiefs. That's how he entered year four and exit year four on a podcast couch next to a dog looking for a belly scratch. And that's all you need to know. Let's say. Kyla Murray is like, you know what? He may love animals, but he does not want to be sitting on a podcast couch next to a dog that was, you know, looking for a scratch.

And that's what Baker Mayfield's doing right now. Isn't the difference, though, because we can see what Debo's doing. And we're like, well, he's totally valuable and worth the money. When Kyler Murray has done what he's done, I mean, there's certainly a talented player there. But in general, Kyler Murray and what he's created, I look at it and say, no, that contract, you're not going to get that massive contract right now. And the Cardinals aren't rushing to pay him either. I don't know how, look, man, he is incredibly talented.

He is definitely playing above five and a half million. Someone would give it to him, though. It's like David Tepper would give him to Sean Watson's contract today, I think. So you think someone's going to give Kyler Murray to Sean Watson's contract? Like there has to be more of a tiered element here because it can't just be Kyleor Murray becomes the highest paid quarterback. Just, I mean, that's a whole other conversation. I agree though, Greg.

Somebody would totally do that. Someone would actually do it. That's quite a roll of the dice. Watson, for all his off-the-field issues, I think, is showed more as a player than Kyler. Sure, but once you get to the point where it's like, hey, you're a difference-making quarterback, I think they would be handing out that money. Especially that organization.

And there's some sort of issue there between Kyler and the team that is different than all these situations. Yeah, they know him and they're not, they don't seem overly pleased with the experience. And Kyler knows them too. I thought it was interesting this week. A couple of his teammates are ex-teamates now, Patrick Peterson and Chase Edmonds, both indicated like, Kyler really wants to win and hasn't been too happy with how they were handling things anyway. Could you imagine, though, and it's all said and done that the Seahawks go into the season with Drew Locke, Gino Smith and whoever they might get a week from now in Las Vegas, Nevada.

And then the Arizona Cardinals could potentially go into the season with Kyler Murray livid and not showing up and creating a problem and showing up in center field for the Oakland A's or something crazy like that because you can't say that that's not possible in this hell going on world. And that at the very same time, the San Francisco 49ers could potentially go into this season with Trey Lancet quarterback without Debo Samuel and the offense. And our neighbors across the street are like red hour back, feet up on the desk, heckling with their cigars, staring at the gleam of their Pacific Coast sunlight

off of the Lombardi trophy that they just won with Stafford re-signed and Alan Robinson brought in and Bobby Wagner behind Aaron Donald, who did not retire with their coach, who did not leave them, with Jalen Ramsey still there. and everybody ready to go once again. They are just laughing. Mark's worst nightmare. He was worried before we moved in next to him that we would somehow become like houseboys for the Rams

that we'd be like the Rams team. Scannily-clad houseboys. Your worst nightmares have come true. They won the Super Bowl in their own hometown and now they're just going to be cruising. I mean, I also experienced, you know, the less need to me, he's probably just walking around Topless

with like a big glass of wine nonstop because he's, if all those things happen, he's just essentially changed the NFC West. And on top of it, that in this copycat league, a bunch of teams, like maybe say the Cleveland Browns and everybody else says, we're going to do the F-all-them-picks situation, and they're not as good at them. They're going to blow it.

And their roster isn't as already set up for that to work, and you're going to attempt it, and you are going to, you know, screw it all up. So what they want to do, like their first copycat thing that everybody had from the Rams is everybody wants their own. Sean McVeigh, and now everybody wants to do what Les Sneed is doing, and nobody's going to either be A as good at it, or B, as set up to do it, and somebody might say, oh, that's all them picks, and it's just like, actually, you needed all them picks.

Yeah, it's like we spent half a decade calling ourselves, like, analytical geniuses, and we're going to take that approach, then we just throw it into the blender and start over and copy what the Rams are doing. Rich Eisen, you've said it all. You could watch Rich on NFL Network, obviously. Obviously. We have to draft. The NFL draft is coming up.

18 drafts for rich unbelievable also on peacock tv the rich eyes and show Monday to Friday 12 to 3 p.m. Eastern also on serious xm that's channel 85 and uh and don't bring up mayock too much next to jeremiah it's just like a it's all right he's feeling by the way they talk more than my children talk with each other yeah they talk a lot but also Jeremiah don't don't ruin them around jeremiah is the wholesome assassin people think that like he wouldn't be able to handle mayok maybe something around but he the wholesome assassin but he the wholesome NASDA. Oh, yeah. He'll cut you. I might be of my fantasy team.

Rich, thank you very much. Any time, guys. Thanks, Rich. You got it. All right, there goes, Rich. We're going to take a break, and we'll be right back with some more news. It's 5.23 p.m. One of your kids is asking for a snack. Another is building a fort out of your clean laundry, and you're staring at a half-empty fridge and thinking,

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code dinner 50. Hellofresh.com. Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. What's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week we study the tape, talk to decision makers and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day.

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Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. All right, welcome back. By the way, Steve Kime, general manager of the Cardinals, told reporters today there was, quote, zero chance. Kyler Murray gets traded. We're hearing a lot of that. You know, A.J. Brown, for instance, the Titans wide receiver. We heard general manager, John Robinson, shoot down trade rumors.

He said, I do not foresee us trading A.J. Brown, which is a little different than zero percent chance. And then you had the head coach, Mike Vrable, say, when A.J. Brown hits the trade block, I will not be head coach of the Titans. And yet, Mark. And yet, there's still percolation around Brown. And you see it on his Twitter feed where all the saga around him and his future is leading to certain tweets. Tweets like they switch up on you quick. Who is you? Him.

But who's they? He is annoyed at a lot of people, I think, because. Decode it for us, Mark. He had a previous tweet. about I am a div on a bad teammate all of a sudden. L.O.L. OK, do what you have to do then, and so so will I. I don't think it's the Titans necessarily. I don't because they seem as committed as anyone here to pay them.

So who is it then? I think it's just perception of them, people attacking them. I really do. I don't think it could be living in his mentions, which is always not a great idea. I'm just saying, like, when Mike Rable came out as strong as he, he's the centerpiece of their offense. Of all these discontented individuals, and half of them have just gotten paid. I just think the Titans are going to stick with him.

He's one of these guys that has a reason to be annoyed with his output versus where he is. If you look at the over-the-cap wide receiver salaries, he sits right below, Dwayne Eskridge, Terrace Marshall Jr. and Tutu Atwell. That's just, yeah, because he's the next year after Atwell. He's on his working contract. It's the same situation as Debo, though. Right, and these have been happening a long time. It's not like a new thing that players get contracts early.

If anything, it was happening so much, they changed the rules. Rob Gruncowski and Aaron Hernandez got long-term contracts after two years of their career, which ended up being one of the most player-friendly contracts in history and one of the most horrific contracts in history. And they changed the rules partly because the Patriots were re-signing guys so quickly. So that stuff happens, but like, it's a story. Gravedigger, who is part of this Titans fan mafia, which is now starting to take over.

Maybe somebody in A.J. Brown's mentions, we should find out. Like Titans fans are so insistent that this isn't a story. They're like, oh, no, it's the media. It's a story. It's not a story. He's not being traded. Like, how dare you do this? If you're going to be talking about a grave digger, just say it's him. I'm looking at you.

It's you. And there's no chance. There's no chance. Like, how dare they? The Titans said they're not going to trade him. How dare are they? And it's like, okay, so let's talk about who's making it a story. Who's making a story?

A.J. Brown is making it a story. He's the story. Like, it's his agent. I'm down, Greg. It's his agent who starts it. Oh, yeah. But it's, it's from them. So it really bothers me that the, like, fans is like, oh, how could they, how could they say this? There's nothing. This is stupid. All right. Let me ever talk. And then A.J. Brown sends out his tweets. He sends out these tweets. He's the one putting it out there. He's the one that wants the money. It is a story because it's a story because people talk about it. And that makes it. story because it's a story like it didn't come out of nowhere who made it a story his agent did as a strategy aren't they just like russell wilson did i think seehawks fans hated the media and they blamed everyone until the moment that russell wilson was traded and you know why it's because he wanted to be the whole time and maybe a j brown wants to or not but either way he wants to get paid and they're the

ones who started so don't blame everyone else about it well you talked about his tweet and there is an interesting thing here because A.J. Brown removed the word Tennessee from his Titans bio, so we all have to freak out about that. And he had a tweet up a year ago. I think this was about like playing with D.K. Metcalf or something. And it said, no, I'm not a package deal, L.O.L. I'm trying to be a Titan for life. He deleted that tweet the other day. But here's the difference. I don't think it was a story two weeks ago when it was like, the Jets are sniffing around, A.J. Brown. Yes, it was. That doesn't come from nowhere. It comes from. from his agent starting to put that stuff into the east.

I think it really became a story when the Titans voluntary workout started and A.J. Brown was reportedly not there because he wants a new contract. But he wanted the new contract weeks ago. These stories don't come out of nowhere. They're putting it into the media's ear is what I'm telling you. Like Russell Wilson. It's coming out of nowhere. I think this is about speeding up the process of getting paid, not late summer, not in the

middle of next season, but now. Or two years from now after you franchise tagging. I don't think he is like dying to get out of Tennessee. He just wants Tennessee to pay him. Absolutely. But they've already come out and said they want to do that. I'm not saying that's going to happen. And Diana Rusini had a report that they are working on an extension already.

John Robinson's talked about it. Mike Very well has talked about it. So like in my estimation, A.J. Brown will sign a contract extension with the Titans. It's just a matter of when. And the thing that Titans fans keep getting pissed about is the trade aspect of it. like PFF accounts tweeting like, imagine this 49ers offense if A.J. Brown and Debo Samuel are traded for each other, which is like one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life. Right. But yeah, I think it's more about the trade. It's possible. My bigger thing was- Maybe he wants to play in California,

you know? It's like these things don't happen organically. And I think there was this feeling that somehow the media is ginning this up and creating, like, yes, now you know he wants a new contract. He wanted that weeks ago, and his agent is talking to reporters who start putting these things out there because people talk. And that's where it comes from. And he probably doesn't care if he leaves Tennessee if they're not going to pay him the number that he wants. I think they will, too, ultimately. So I don't think it's like a huge deal. But it's like everyone getting so mad about how this comes up.

I see it differently than the Russell Wilson saga, who I do think Russell Wilson's relationship with the organization came to a end. AJ Brown and the Titans, I don't get that vibe at all. They want him. He wants money. He wants it now. And he wants it now.

And it used to be, even as recently as a couple years ago, if you were a superstar that came out of the outside the first round, you had to eat a little poop and wait your turn to get paid. Now the game's changing a little bit. Guys are saying, you pay me now. The only difference is that this is coming up before the draft, and they're trying to use their leverage that way to maybe inspire other teams to offer picks. But a third year receiver like A.J. Brown and Debo Samuel and Terry McClure,

we're asking for more money, getting more money and holding out going into their fourth year for the last two decades. Like that, that is, that's pretty normal. It's more that they're just kind of taking control of this process so early. Like April, essentially in doing it now. So April instead of. July. Instead of July. So why were we talking about this so much? Because they're trying to see if the draft can bump that number up or, create something like they're seeing if the draft is kind of a deadline leverage point that maybe will help them out all right i think now slightly nonsensically i understand where you come from makes sense if if this all ends with a j brown getting extension 14 days earlier

i'm just going to be super annoyed that we're talking about it's so passionate i feel like he's probably going to hold out through all the summer activities and then training camp's going to get here and it's like day one of training camp where's a j brown and then day two a j brown science huge extension with the Titans and reporters. We've seen that story roughly 712 times during our podcast. I'm really rooting for a Debo versus AJ Brown or for AJ Brown trade, though, just so he can replay that. I feel like if the Titans, you never know. The Titans go down a certain path of dysfunction, we could get graver to just lose it on the podcast because he's so passionate.

So I'm rooting for chaos. That's what I'm rooting for. Sure. There is something. They don't have a ton of cap space. They're not maybe the most cash rich team in the league in terms of. of guaranteed money wanting to put all, you know, there's something. So now you're coming over to my side of things in that conversation.

They also cut Julio Jones with a post-June 1 designation, which means they get $9.5 million in cap space back, but not until June. So they can't, I mean, I don't know how they happen. I feel good about where this is headed. And Debo, I feel a little differently. AJ, we'll see. All right, Ben McAdoo. He's a rock star.

You remember that. Jay Glaze report. Matt Rule's job depends on hiring a rock star. offensive coordinator. That became Ben McAdoo, who was something of a resounding failure. He kind of looks like he's a rock star. He kind of looks like I feel like, well, let's get one step

at a time here. Let's start with Ben McAdo offensive coordinator of the Panthers. QB needy needy Panthers, it seems to many, most if not all. Ben McAdoo is up there on the podium talking about Sam Darnold and

he has a little slip up. We're going to play the beginning and then a little later in the presser. Sam is our starting quarterback, yes. You know, one of the things I've been working on is being better talking to you people. So, you know, announcing the starting quarterback here, I just put my foot in the mouth. So that wasn't something I should have said. I actually don't think it matters that much because technically is the starting quarterback. He's the incumbent. He was the starter last year.

Either him or PJ Walker at the moment. If you want to read into it, go ahead and read into it. That means they're not drafting a quarterback next week. I'm not looking it down that way. I'm more plugged in on. I think Ben finally found a look that works from him with the lettuce right up top. The part down the middle. He likes it long.

There's nothing wrong with liking it long. And I think he's found a look that much better than the fluff look like the Beaver, 2012. He went through many phases that were unacceptable. And the slick back look, the greaser look, that wasn't for him. But I think he's found something right now with the center part. I don't buy the idea that he's a rock star. I mean, I also think that if you go through the next season's voyage with Sam Darnold as you're plugged in starter, you're probably not going to be working anywhere a year from now if you're an offensive coordinator.

So if that is their plan, which is not at all, they've got to come up with something else. It's like nothing other than Doom, no matter how nice his hair looks and how shiny his hair looks. I assumed it meant nothing like you, Dan, that it was just like a random slip. Like, of course, he's a starter. But him actually apologizing for it in such a way made me wonder, maybe there was something to it. Because like, why would he be apologizing if it meant nothing? Maybe they are entering this month, at least with the possibility that Sam Darnold might be their starter.

Because I guess how could they not? You know, they don't know. If they get a rookie, is he going to be a bum or not? You don't really know until you see it. And they don't know if they're going to have Baker Mayfield or not at this point. You think, Rich? is a kind of hit on it and I got a vibe maybe.

The fact that SoFi is ripping up or pulling up their artificial turf and he has to do the Run Rich run at the Rose Bowl. I wonder if he was like behind the scenes really mad about that because he had the turf at an indie that was great. He wants to run a sub six.

I wonder. It's for a good cause, but it doesn't mean that he may not have other feelings about how the process has played out and could be agitated. I'm going to go over there today and just see, like, do you think we could just get in? Because if they're getting rid of that turf, that would be a great, like, Ellis, my daughter is a huge Rams fan. Oh, a little turf souvenir?

I don't know, maybe just go in there and steal some turf. I don't know if our past is, can we get in there? Can we get in there? It's right there. No, I think security would totally buy you. No one's there. I don't think you're getting into the facility. Finally in the news, this is, we had Josh Norris from the fantasy underdog realm on our show. 16 out of 32. Underdog fantasy.

You did struggle with that a few times. Because I think the website was like underdog network, but I think it's just underdog, yeah, underdog fantasy. Listen, you know where to find Josh Norris. After you go 16 for 32, you'll find Josh Norris. Anyway, Bud Light, a partner here with the NFL on the draft, is offering $15 million, if you can correctly predict all 32 round selections

ahead of this year's NFL draft, which is ludicrous, quite frankly. So I thought what we could do to kind of raise our profile a little bit and knowing that no one would ever be able to do that because Joss basically topped the best you could do is about is half. I don't think you can do much better than half. Ricky, I want you to send this out to all major media outlets. Actually, can I get the trumpets?

Give me the eyes and trumpets. The Around the NFL podcast will give you $115 million if you go 32 for 32. Just send your draft selections to the ATN podcast at gmail.com. I mean, we have it in escrow. So this is legitimate. We'll even throw in an NFL podcast hoodie. I think there's a couple in a box upstairs and shadowies.

We used to have, back in the La Cid era, we had a lot of glossies, eight by tens that we would sign for. And then Ricky took over and I think she burned all of them. We also sent out... Yeah, anything with Sydney's... If we could track down one of the old La Cid 8x10s, we'll sign that as well, with the $1.15 million in escrow. Maybe she took them with her. Lassid.

Maybe she also sent as a gift once, 2006, and this was long after 2006, a 2006 Tennessee Titans media guide. Do you remember the puzzle? That's the Vinson Young Pac-Man Jones here. That's a rookie of the year, Vince Young. So we all sign that puzzle. to send to the winner of the Colleen theme song,

The Wolf puzzle. And then the listener could put the puzzle together and it would be all our signatures. And I put it in a box to send to FedEx and then the pandemic happened. And so it was two years. And now I don't know where that puzzle is. It's like a whole, it's like could be in Culver,

could be gone. Oh, you never actually sent it out? No, we got locked at home for two years. So don't hold your breath about the 115 large. Yeah, well. If you hit 32 of 32. But just no, but light ain't got nothing on us. That's what's happening.

in the news. We've got to talk some more draft. The draft is one week from today is the first round. Can you believe that? I'm annoyed now. Are you? That was previous me. Annoyed about something previous.

We're going to be at the draft for the first time since I believe the old New York days. Well, Dan and I went to the Johnny Mansell draft. Yeah, you guys went in Cleveland and Wes and I were back in the studio. That was, no, it was in New York. 2014. Yeah.

Radio City. You departed after sitting in those small radio city seats with a back injury. A neck injury that I had for about two years. Pending litigation, perhaps, with Madison Square Garden and Radio City Music Hall. Yes? No, go ahead. No, but yeah, we're going to be at the draft in Vegas. We're going to have a show draft night backstage, as I understand, at where's the draft,

Allegiant Stadium or in the surrounding territories? No. It's at the Bellagio. It's at the Bellagio. Right? I don't know. We're in the fountains. Topless.

It's close. It's at some theater right there. They're coming through, but it's not like inside the Belagio or anything. I looked for this. So we're going to be there on Thursday night for the first round. Well, maybe even talk to some first round picks. Mark was hoping we get some offensive linemen, some detackles, some run stuffers. I just want to dig in.

Yeah, yeah. So that's exciting. And before that, let's have a conversation. you know when you look at the draft and the strategies where teams are expected to go the speculation it's now reached a fever pitch as it always does by this time of the NFL calendar and yet sometimes that feeling that people have is a bad feeling for a team so this segment is called no no no no no no no no no no no no no no don't do that that's mine everyone's going to do one including greg our own line reading yeah it's a good to you know performative chops

after you introduce the idea yeah that's good uh show a little improv and that's behind the glass too i want to get some i gotta get christie stapleton get her on the mic for that uh for for mine but so let's go around and this is kind of one last last chance at advice for teams that might be leaning a certain way and a way that would end in doom mark get us going i have seen all the mock drafts and the vast majority tell us that dan campbell and the detroit lions are going to go defense and let's just keep uh you know adding big thick men to the both lines on the ball and i'm telling Well, I mean, they would be at various times, not on the field. I want the lions who are crazy.

They're halfway there, please stop. They are halfway there of being a super interesting team. Half. They got a, I thought that they were the most fascinating, sucky team I've seen in years a season ago. Here's what I'm saying to the Detroit Lions. Do not pass on the idea of just rolling the dice and drafting Malik Willis. Just do it. I don't care about Jared Goff.

I don't care about drafting some sort of edge rusher. Wait, so your thing is, yes, do that? Do that to, yes, Jeff. Don't pass. This is your idea. No, no, no, no, no. Do not do that on passing on Malik Willis. Oh.

The old double negative. Well, this is connected to yours, so we could have a nice conversation. Do not draft a defensive tackle slash edge rusher. I want Erica Tamposi to give me a line read. you're going to tee it up or you want me to just do it okay no no no don't do that i would say uh drafting malik willis that was my first one so we are on opposite ends of the aisle here don't draft don't draft malik wills because we have so much we have so much uh institutional knowledge potentially uh that this is not a quarterback class and that that reeks to me of a team with a need

reaching at number two when i if i'm the lines my move would be to try to get the hell out of the number two pick if you could trade back and if not your roster is not halfway there maybe they're halfway to being interesting but they are half they are less than half they're like a tenth of the way there to being a super bowl contender just go get the best player on the board Jared goff is a perfectly respectable bridge quarterback you're not contending this year anyway so why not stick with goff who's under contract anyway add more play players through the draft, and then next year, perhaps, you go get that quarterback either through the draft or free agency, a guy that you really love. Now, maybe they love Malik Willis.

Maybe that is part of this conversation. Then sure, if you really are in love. But be careful to talk yourself into it because you need a quarterback. If they don't like him, then they're not going to do that. But the idea that we all know that Malik Willis is just going to flatline or be a glass of warm... I'm going off everything that we've heard about his college career. and everything we've heard from the draft experts. Draft with upside, though, with the real ceiling. I don't like a team in year three of a regime next off season. They still don't know who their quarterback is.

Right. That bridge is getting long if you have goff and nothing else this year. I just would say you meet in the middle. I don't think there's much of a chance. We never know going into it just about anything. But you don't get the sense there's much of a chance Malik Willis could go number two. What about this? But what you could imagine is them.

Getting Aiden Hutchinson, the local guy at number two, because Trayvon Walker goes number one. Beautiful. And then you use all these picks you got. They have 32 and 34. They've got 66. They have 97, which is compensatory too, using some of those picks to move up at the very least, the head of Pittsburgh, who's at 20, and you get Malik Willis in the middle of the first round.

And I see that as a very realistic possibility. Do that. Do it. our ideas. But that also presumes that you can get him in the middle of the first round. I think that's risky. I mean, you've got the Carolina Panthers sitting there. Other teams could trade up. He's obviously not going number

one unless the Jagger's traded out of the pick. Their phone's not ringing according to Rapsheet. So yes, that's the only scenario where you definitely get your guy. But I would just, my feeling would be, in that building, they need to really love him. Otherwise, which we don't know. Otherwise, go get their

defense needs plenty of help. Go build up the defense. Go get an edge rusher, which are invaluable in our league. Even if that's not a home run either, I get that. But you take a quarterback number two. That's a two to three year investment. You better be sure that you're in love with the guy. I think that's why it doesn't make sense at two. But I think it's a better spot than people think because I think the coaching staff is good. I think the offensive line is quite good. So there are things to like about the lines, especially if you're not put into that position you want to play. We have a jump jumping out of this real quick, spinning back to the

Kyler Murray situation, some developing news here. Kyler Murray tweet in response to Patrick Peterson comments, which were, you know, Patrick Peterson, former Cardinals mainstay said this week. He doesn't see Kyler's long-term home, Arizona. Kyler tweets, I want to win Super Bowls with the Cardinals, comma, A-Z is home. Okay. Okay, that's pretty strong. Stepping off the ledge.

That's pretty strong. I kind of don't care. what he says at all at this point but all right pretty strong that wasn't that he didn't have to send that out that was that's an olive branch to the card uh essentially everything that players have done on social media this offseason did not have to be sent out well you could say about social media and gen i absolutely do 99.6 percent of twitter who knew that um such a brave guy was going to step forward during this podcast that mark would just hey social media I think it's bad for society.

Don't need that, MySpace. No comment. All right. Back to the conversation at hand. The no, no, no, no, no, no. That one didn't land well. You can't, it is hard to get space to be the brave one on this show, so. I like that.

Oh, the slings and arrows. Greg, you're up. You mentioned Shottie Vanzel earlier. That was a good one. That was good. You mentioned Johnny Mansell earlier. And there's a quarterback in this draft that reminds me just a little bit of Johnny Mansell. At least in terms of like some of the strengths and weaknesses.

And it also reminds me a little bit of the current Browns quarterback who's not really the Browns quarterback, Baker Mayfield. And it's a player who's being mocked a lot to the Carolina Panthers. at number six overall, a quite old prospect by the name of Kenny Pickett. And just imagining the Panthers drafting Kenny Pickett in that spot just makes me think like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't do that. Oh, my God. That was real.

Kenny Pickett seems like he's a little bit of the worst of all worlds in terms of a guy you would take that early. Carolina is definitely a worst of all worlds, I think, for a player arriving. Number one, your coach could be on the way out, similar to Justin Fields last year, arriving to Chicago and kind of wasting a year with a coaching staff that's about to leave. Number two, a terrible, terrible offensive line. And that's the most important part of the equation, that they haven't really fixed this offseason.

And they could help fix with the number six overall pick, or you move back and you get some picks. Pickett is talked up as accurate, and he seems to be. And, like, Johnny Mansell could throw it pretty accurately when he saw it, and Baker Mayfield can throw it accurately when he saw it. But Pickett, to me, doesn't seem like he has, like, the pocket feel, and he holds onto the ball forever. His time to throw, according to PFF, is over three seconds,

like one of the highest in college football over the last three years in a row. Like, that's just part of who he is. So he's like always trying to make a play. And that reminds me a Baker and it reminds me of Johnny Mansell, these guys who maybe don't progress in terms of like great quarterback skills in terms of going one to two to three quickly, that it takes forever. And you go just try to make a play outside of the pocket. That's sort of who can he picket is.

And that worked when you're like a 23 year old fifth year senior who didn't really do much until your fifth year, but I think could be really troubling at the NFL level. unless you have a lot of support around you. And Carolina does not offer a lot of support. Here's my question then, because, all right, that all makes sense for the Panthers. It's their overshooting with that quarterback in that spot. Are we suddenly okay with the idea of Pittsburgh taking the player you just described 14 spots later? Does it really matter?

Why should anyone cling to Kenny Pickett as their quarterback of the future? Different people like different things. And some, like our guy, Daniel Jeremiah, who knows a lot more about this process, thinks he's the best quarterback in this draft. But then if that's the case, let's say he is, and let's say Daniel Jeremiah is right. If you're the Panthers, why wouldn't you? It's like I guess it just seems like we're talking about a player

who has value suddenly an hour and a half later in the draft process because we're 14 picks down. It wouldn't make sense for the Steelers to take them either, for what it's worth. And it's very little. Like I think Malik Willis makes a lot more sense to them and maybe even Desmond Ritter. But Pickett seems like a guy who's going to try,

to find out that his athleticism that worked in college isn't going to be as special. And it's kind of like all these quarterbacks. It's a boring topic at this point, but like everyone's trying to convince themselves into any of these guys. So probably none of them make sense. I think Steelers

are in a slightly different spot where you take a guy at 20 and whoever it is, maybe you're not forced to play them right away. You'll just eat Tribisky for a year and you're not that worried. And I trust them to develop in a way that that others wouldn't eat tribisky for a year

it's like but none of these guys would be going that high a year ago I think is pretty clear Malik Willis at least I think people see that there's like a chance you can see it you see those Josh Allen throws you see one of the best running quarterbacks in the league right now makes a lot of sense to me the upside of the other guys doesn't seem

like it's there if you're upside is Baker Mayfield just go get Baker Mayfield like he's going to be way better right now than a Kenny Pickett is I just I'm feeling cynical because like the pre-draft quarterback talk is like correct about 12% of the time, it seems like. So it's like who really, what?

Most guys can't really play. More developing news. In a big picture, more of these guys are going to fail than the... Right. Even in Baker's class, that was the case. One of the best classes ever. Kyler Murray has now replied to a rap sheet tweet. Rap sheet tweeted, could Cardinals QB Kyler Murray be traded GM Steve Kime during his pre-draft press conference, zero chance,

as we talked about earlier. Kyler's reply, the 100 emoji, the 100 in red and two underlines. This is exciting to go through this. He's very... So they definitely got a deal done today then, right? That's going to come out soon?

But he's, I just feel like he's a little clumsy in this whole realm. I think he's trying to, you know, backped a little and remake the image of what we thought of a couple weeks ago. Or he knows something and is like feeling confident now. Yeah, but, well, to Mark's point, then just fucking do the deal.

Yeah. Like, what... They don't know anything. They're just, like, trying to quiet it all down, like, PR-wise, which is great. Maybe they've made some progress in terms of a contract. Man, this egg's going so well. Let's just keep rolling straight through. No, no, no, no, no.

Don't do that. All right, Ricky. We'll take a break. We'll be right back. It's 5.23 p.m. One of your kids is asking for a snack. Another is building a fort out of your clean laundry. And you're staring at a half-empty fridge and thinking, what are we even going to eat tonight?

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Go to Hellofresh.com.combe, dinner 50. That's Hellofresh.ca promo code dinner 50. Hellofresh.C., Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet.

We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching. strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. so you may recall boys and girls early in the draft process when everybody was hot

hot hot hot on Kyle Hamilton yes he's a safety which is not a premier position whatever that means but he might be the best player in this draft and then I think it was his pro day or combine he ran a non-impressive

40 both and now you're seeing like Josh Norris's mock. He's 18 to the Eagles. And to that, I'll say, Randy Chavez. No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. There's a little panic in the voice there.

I like that. That's all the GMs that are saying, we'll pass on this guy. Let him fall deep into the first round. This is what I know, and I am the furthest thing from a college expert, but I will say this. You know from years and years and years of following the sport

that the guys who know their shit, the Bucky Brooks is. of the world as an example. It's like, you can get all hot and bothered about the combine and pro days and all this, but the best way to find out of a guy can play is watch the tape. And this guy, Kyle Hamilton and Notre Dame was a baller. And yet, this happens every year. One, the guy runs up Port 40 and he starts tumbling down the board.

Now, these are mock draft boards. We'll see if NFL teams were turned off the way mock drafters who are plugged in and asking questions have surmised this. but if Kyle Hamilton ends up being an all-pro star at safety teams are going to be kicking themselves because he didn't run fast in March. Maybe he was never that high in the first place

because he's a safety and teams when it comes down to it just like taking either receivers or big guys, you know, and that's with the whole mocks like rising falling. It's become almost cliche now that it's less rising falling

and more just like the pros, the coaches enter the process, the GMs, and we actually get a feel of what they're actually thinking, and maybe Kyle Hamilton was never there. But I'm with you, it's like overthinking it in a draft where it seems like there's no surefire home runs, why not take the guy that has the best chance to be an all-pro? Like a double. Who cares if it's positional value?

Like, that part doesn't make a lot of sense to me. There aren't a lot of players that started out in most mocks unanimously top five and viewed as sort of a rock-solid, like, hit. and then they tumbled the way they did. And it says a lot about the position, but I think maybe a team will surprise us and go a little earlier with them. All right.

Anybody else got one? I got too many. I guess just since we should do it, I feel like we haven't had like almost the cliched conversation. That's what we always aim for on this show. I know, just to, but it's big. It's the number one overall draft pick. And like sometimes the conventional wisdom take, I think, is right.

And I think when it's Trent Balky, making the decision for Jacksonville. It's like, hey, Jaguars, how about don't take the guy number one overall who has less production than any top five pass rusher in the history of the NFL? Like, how about let's not do that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't do it.

Do you trust them to not do that? I like the condescension. It's just like, let's not say, oh, it's the Georgia scheme and he's good at run defense. It's like, and all that's true, I'm sure, like, it makes sense that some physical... Did you say Trayvon Walker? Trayvon Walker, yeah.

I'm sure all that makes sense that he's got these tools that are crazy. He's a physical, like, just total freak, and that probably means he's going to be a halfway decent pro. But at no point, has he ever been a great pass rush? Let's not take him number one overall. Just take someone else. Who's the equivalent?

Who is there an NFL equivalent in recent years that similarly... DeNeil Hunter, but he got taken in the third round. Or like, Justin Herbert maybe wasn't off the map a totally different vibe but I mean defensive edge rusher In terms of what the kind of player

I think Trayvon Walker can and maybe will be would be more like Clowny who did go one overall but Clowny was an incredibly productive college player like he's more strong like he's gonna be stronger

and more athletic than he is like a pure pass rusher but I don't know I don't trust the Jaguars to make decisions he's the opposite What made Clowny such an exciting prospect was, of course, the famous hit on the running back in the back field.

Like, he was this guy that seemed, people were talking about like LT because he had excelled so much in college. It was a player of the year. It was a player of the year. Trayvon Walker, for the Jets, for instance, he could fall to them at four and I could see them getting sucked in

and taking him. And I just don't know how I would feel for this very reason. It spooks me a little bit for a guy not to be a college star to expect him to be a professional star. I'd almost trust the judge. Jets a little more, if only because Robert

Salas' defense makes sense. To me, they're a defensive scheme that takes big, strong guys that are maybe a little unrefined and tries to simplify and just says, go. And that's what he could be really good at, I think. Just sort of like a bowling ball that

messes a lot of things up. Maybe you don't get a lot of sacks and they could coach them up. I just sort of don't trust the Jaguars to take the boom or bust guy because everything they've done as a franchise for the last decade has been bused. Like, and that matters to me. Aidan Hutchinson, you know, a lot of people mocking him still to the Jaguars.

Malik Willis, maybe to the Lions. Yeah, maybe Trayvon Walker ends up on the jets. That's why everyone's saying this first round, there's not slam dunks in it. There's going to be risk. That's why people are trying to get out of the first round. Teams are trying to get out. I mean, the first 10 picks, I should say, in the first run. People are trying to deal out of that zone because there's way too much risk involved with these picks.

People get fired for missing on top 10 picks badly. and this draft especially feels like Mark 1 where you can get canned by taking the next Vernon Goulston, for instance. I've got one for you. All right. Mark's all business today. I like the edge to you right now.

Ever since I said Brave, which wasn't like a commentary on it. It wasn't a commentary on anything. It was more just a silly joke. There's a team that obviously is like a player away. They are maybe a player or two away from Super Bowl glory. And they should see themselves. way, even though the general manager today said, it's not Super Bowl or Bust. Nonsense. Yes, it is. Everyone

in Buffalo knows that it's Super Bowl or bust. The piece I think they're missing is having Josh Allen have to be the centerpiece of their rushing attack. I know you have Devin Singletary. They tried to get J.D. McKissick that went south. He would have been a great situational player for them. There is a player out there who is viewed as the unquestionable, high-volume runner who can score from anywhere on the field. He's a two-time first-team All-American. He has the college production we're talking about in every possible way. And what I don't want the bills in this spot to do is to try to get too cute and

outsmart all the mock drafters who have essentially mocked this player running back Breece Hall from Iowa State to Buffalo for them to say, if everyone says we're going to do this, we're not going to do it. Hit it, Sean Kelly. No, no, no, don't do that. Okay, let's try it a little differently. Give me a second, just give me a second take. He doesn't.

I like that, but let's just give it, give me a different flavor. No, no, no, no, no, no, do not do that. Let's pretend you're very angry. Okay. No, no, do not do that. All right, that's the vibe. That was believable. That felt like that's the vibe.

That was very much like Sean has used. those exact words in that same tone to his mom when he told her to like clean up his room. I was going to say his college girlfriend when she was like, I don't think long distance is going to work. This is not, no, there's, you know, you had a nice experience. I'll love you and I'll always like, give me one more, Sean. I'll love you and nothing is going to ever change that. Like you've always have a special place in my heart, but I just think this is the time

where we need to go our separate ways. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You cannot do that. Well, that's not improvise. Thank you, Sean. Got to get a little flavor. So, but back to, so, Mark, yours, yours are bending my brain a little bit. So yours are, no, no, no, no, no.

Take. Do not not, not do that. It's, yes, I would say that if, if you want it not spun in a different way, or if you do, it's do not listen to the mock draft. Do not, do not ignore the mock drafters. Do not try to be smarter. So listen to the mock drafters. Essentially.

Do what everyone thinks you're going to do. The worst, the worst thing about this is that I've, vaguely came up with this second idea yesterday. You came up with it. It was a winner. I'm just coming at it from a... We talked about this with Josh, this very situation. Right. Breece Hall and the bills.

It makes plenty of sense. But this also comes from me suggesting that we've talked about that they, like if Christian McCaffrey were ever truly on the market, that the bills doing that deal and getting that done would turn their offense into something psychotic. I think Breece Hall can get them there. Brise Hall and Kenny Walker seem like guys if they were in a draft 15 years ago. they potentially would be top 10 picks and they're like totally ignored.

So that part of it I like, but then I also look at the bills and I think why did the bills not win the Super Bowl? Yes. It's because Sean McDermott's defense stunk and it sort of got ignored. 12 seconds. Had a good season,

but they got lit up for 500 yards. They don't have a second outside cornerback right now. They have Tredavius White and really nothing else. So I'm almost certain they're going to take a cornerback in the first two rounds. I guess, you know, maybe they'll take a running back first and a quarterback second or vice versa. But, man, they need help in the secondary.

It's like they did it. On offense, you guys did it. And you always, you never want to risk getting stale and just resting on your laurels on one side of the ball. But I feel like the offense is going to put up points. They're going to score 30. It's the defense. If they could add a couple more difference makers there.

So hold on here. I'm going off of their actual actions. They thought they had J.D. McHissick, who is a better player than I think most people. No, I think it makes sense. But that's like a third down back. I feel like you could get Dalvin Cook's brother, what is it, James Cook, who looks awesome.

I feel like people are under, like, overthinking him just because he didn't have crazy production. He looks exactly like Dalvin Cook. Just draft him earlier. Well, Ozzy Konseko made it look a lot like Jose. I get it, but he runs and catches the ball beautifully. Like, and he'll be available maybe in the second round is all I mean. I just address the position, but if they think he's special, like the defense, yes,

but how about add strength to strength? You know what? And we also trust them as team builders. is Greg, I don't agree with it, but Greg had their brain trust, Sean McDermott, and company is number one in your GM power rankings. That's right. Over the Super Bowl champion, less sneed. And you heard, you got an earful from a certain high-ranking figure within the Rams.

I mean, that's for you to throw out there. But yeah, I think it just shows how important the GM rankings are. I mean, they send shockwaves throughout the industry. Kevin Colbert was very high. I'm going to wrap up with just one more quick one. And he was on our show. The high-ranking owner, by the way, was Stan Cronkey, high-ranking official. Me and Stan are tight.

Kevin Colbert wants to leave the Steelers in great shape. We talked about that scenario earlier where maybe the Lions can trade up ahead of Pittsburgh to go get Malik Willis. And I just think Kevin Colbert, if you're thinking Malik Willis, and it really feels like Mike Tomlin would like that idea. And for my own enjoyment, who doesn't want to watch Trabiski for 17 weeks and likes the idea of a future Steelers team with one of the best running quarterbacks in the NFL, which Malik Willis will be day one, like Jalen Hertz, but more. Like somewhere between Jalen Hertz and Cam Newton as a runner and just crazy arm strength.

Don't wait for weight. Don't wait for Malik Willis. Like, don't do it. I think you're probably going to have to move up, whether it's. to like 12 or something. It's not the Steeler way. They've never done it. They always just sit there.

He famously sat there and waited for Ben to come to him. But I don't know if waiting for Malik Willis to come to you is going to work. And when I think about this, this is what I think about, Justin. No, no, no, don't do that. I like it. Very good. All right, we got Malik Willis fever. If he does all those things, if he does all those things, then like two years from now,

people are going to be annoyed that Detroit didn't take it? him just saying that that's a fair point like i just think of course but but but that's a thing like five minutes later my week malik wills is someone someone the stealers should trade up for and break their organizational philosophy don't take too no it's like like if you're the detroit lions you've been you've been the most dull observational team in the league for years and years and you're going to roll out jared goff again and then roll into year well you just said they were really entertaining last year yeah well okay so i think they were spicy for a team that has the second overall pick I think even Malik Willis's...

Not a fully arrived product. Right. Even his biggest fans, Malik Willis, probably recognize what is it? Maybe like a 40% chance that he becomes a hit. But that's kind of true, I guess, what you're saying, Mark, of any... You said that first round... Well, in less snee do we love, thought Jared Goff would be. So, again, like, the human element to this is toxic.

Right. I think that 2018 draft is a good reminder. I think it was very typical of how first round quarterbacks go. two were total hits Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson who both fell too far one was Baker who I think's in the middle

like he's a starting quarterback you're not in love that he was your number one overall pick but he wasn't a bad pick he's a quarterback and two look like bus and that's like how it goes but maybe Malik Willis is sort of like if he was in that draft it's funny to think about Lamar now like if Lamar

Jackson was in this draft his profile coming out of college he'd be the number one overall pick and he went 32nd It's a little mind-bending to think out how it's changed, how the league's changed. All right. That's our last show of the week. We have the season finale of the Around the NFL broadcast tomorrow Friday on NFL Network. If you miss it, according to Peter Schrager, they are that bitch like at 3am on Monday morning.

So just check your local listings. Find it, watch it. If you can, we really would appreciate it. And then next week, we're all in for draft week. we will give you I think we're going to give you five shows and people who are wondering is the Mark Sessler mock draft

coming back? You're damn right it is it's an event we don't skip events it's a tent pole of this show and it will be treated as such Mark? Yeah and I promise as always

to put at least 42 minutes into the research and the production. Yes. And I think a little We did have a discussion about not doing it, which I was surprised. You had it. I stood on the table and was saying, we got to do this mock draft, and it was kind of thrown

out there, oh, are we going to do that or not? And I was like, we got, we got to do this. I think it got blown out a little bit too much last year. We're going to find the right balance. Right. And just know that Malik Willis, will he be the number two pick in Mark's mock draft? After all that, I'd like to think he will be, but Mark's also an unpredictable guy. He might not.

Well, he's a businessman, and he wants to beat Josh Norris. I know that. Oh, yeah. He wants to beat Daniel Jeremiah. I beat Daniel Jeremiah a few years ago, I believe. And if you, you know what? If you put Malik Willis to the lines at two? Just say, you did.

No one's going to look at. Because I think in the final analysis, that was not totally accurate. But I, listen, I, if they draft him at 15, though, I think you get credit for him. Team player match. It's close enough. Even if it's not the same one more update from Kyler Murray, developing news. So he's on some sort of, you know, LSD product at this point. Kyleor Murray

I will only play for the Cardinals and I will pay them wow that no that's a lot there's no word updates he must love the Cardinals wouldn't that be awesome though like if he did a tweet and he just did that tongue in cheek

that would blow up the internet I don't think Tyler Murray we haven't gotten any sense of humor detection off him yet but maybe we just need to get to know him back no and according to like AJ Green conversation with the media this week. It felt like him and Kyler Murray had barely ever spoken.

He'd said it in the nicest way possible, but that's what it felt like. All right. All right. Last one. Here's Christy. There she is. Behind the glass.

Christy Stapleton. Mark is getting ready to make Malik Willis. Look, she's running away. She ran out. She said, I'm not doing this. And right. That's like, it's like that dream. you have in high school where like you're giving a speech to the class and you realize you're in your

underwear that's the way she just reacted she sprinted out of here i think she's heard of our start she's trying to sneak back in so you can't all right then well she had her chance so it could have been a star and she and she's like hey this uh this life in front of the microphone hey it's not for everybody it's only for the real heroes the brave ones among us it's one way to put it um where are you going with that. I don't, I don't, uh, thank you for listening. Say things. Uh, until draft week. Stan Hansa signing off for Rich eyes in the face. Thanks for joining us. Rich. The old boss, quiet storm, Ricky Hollywood and the whole gang behind the glass.

Christy, I have to say, I'm disappointed. Till Tuesday, heed the call. You know, So, In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every match with next level speed,

seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. so you can push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Fiorio, and together we host the NFF.

Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.