NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Ron Rivera Fired; Which Team Changed Your Mind

Episode Date: December 3, 2019

A room filled with angry heroes - Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling, Marc Sessler, and Gregg Rosenthal start by breaking down the news that Panthers have split ways with Head Coach Ron Rivera (5:02) and then recapping the Monday night game between the Vikings and Seahawks (14:11). The heroes check in on which teams are Fork'd (45:24) and then make a case for which team changed their mind the most in week 13 (51:19) . Stick around for a TNF preview between the Bears and Cowboys. (1:07:42)Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast gets recognized by no one in the United States. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by the United States Marine Corps. My name is Dan Hansis. I'm joined in a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosenthal. What is up, please? Hey, Dan.

Oh, yeah. Tuesday show. So are we going to throw to the five-minute conversation we just had about the 10-minute conversation? Which then ended with Dan being like, this is the show. We should have been taping this. Which is like something that's happened basically every time.

There's no need at this point, having done the show as long as we have and as much time as we spend with each other, there is no point talking where the mics aren't on. at this point. I know that seems cold, clinical, even dysfunctional, and rude. It's just true, though. I mean, if we're going to say, if we're going to have an interesting conversation this many years in, you might as well be recording it.

You're right. That does sound cold. I was recording it, though. Ooh. Maybe release the tapes. I mean, sure. 19 of the 25 minutes could be used. I did think about that because, you know, you guys.

were nice enough to take that, tape that Thanksgiving podcast. So Wes and I had... Me and Mark are the only ones that heard it, but... Wes and I had Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. You know, I guess we taped on Wednesday, but, you know, Wednesday afternoon through Sunday morning. And I realized, like, that's the longest I've not seen you guys in a long time, those three days.

Do not shake your head at me. Erica. It was a nice break. That's all I'm saying. I get it. It was a nice little break. We hear you. We hear you.

Erica just slacked me or used the chat client to say, tell them it wasn't my fault that there was a major technical snafu with our Thanksgiving show. I will not, I will not say that. Why not? Why won't you tell the truth? I'll like Greg's good at delivering this type of. No, I'm out on, I didn't have anything to do with this. It wasn't Ricky. It wasn't producing. I asked to work Friday, even from home, and they said no.

So they had someone else do it. I think the paper trail would prove you correct in terms of, everything that happened post show how we got there that's up for a debate thank you you do you're comfortable with us asking the shadowy league figure that's exactly how it went down yeah 100% I have text Dan was texting me we were too oh I was but you weren't mad at me you were mad at this individual I was met at the entire situation right I was at the zoo at the time when they started texting me and I sent a pretty good picture of a leopard oh yeah and I thought you guys would appreciate that but no comment

Yeah, there was a snafu with the Thursday show, and some people got a podcast that I wasn't even aware existed, but apparently there's another show that Bucky Brooks does that they put out on this platform. Well, that's why it felt like a high concept prank against not only you and me, but everyone involved with our show, was that that particular show appeared in our place. Yeah, great moment.

It would be a very confusing first around the NFL podcast for anyone to listen to. Well, you've been, you've already, made seven years of mistakes if you've not been listening up till now. All right. So we have so much to get to. So we should stop dilly dallying because big news in the NFL. We have a second head coach who's now been dismissed. Also, we have a nice seg, which team changed your mind the most in week 13?

We have a Thursday night preview, Dallas at Chicago. Is that? No, it is not a dirt nap game for. the Cowboys because of the state of the NFC East, but the Bears certainly need the game to stay mathematically relevant in the national...

In our league. In our league. Bears must win. In our league. We got a couple hour leagues on the Monday telecast. We also got a this league which sometimes is a good surrogate for our league. This league is good though because it's more inclusive. Our league

is clearly I suit it up. I had the helmet on, I went through the pain. This league's fine. This league is fine. It's accurate. I asked a class thing, is to Marcus Russell waltzing around town saying, you know, in our league, we do this? It's like, what is the level of where you're even allowed to say that you participated with any amount of honor? I think you have to have a pension. Well, I mean, we work for the NFL. We were involved in some pension action for a bit there. Different pension. Okay. Not our pension. Oh, not our pension. In our pension. Anyway, so Dallas at Chicago will talk about.

out. And yes, Ron Rivera is out, and we're going to get to that in a moment. But before we do, let us recap, actually, should we start with Ron Rivera? Let's do it. It's not very hard. Yes, we'll get to Monday night football. But let's start with the big news that broke about an hour before we went on the air today. Ron Rivera out as Panthers head coach. This was his ninth season with the team, a two-time NFL coach of the year, a NFC conference champion. the 2015 season, the 15 and one season where the Panthers fell short in Super Bowl 50 against the Broncos, a guy that's widely respected across the league. And yet, this, the timing is surprising, but the fact that it happened is not because

Greg, David Tepper, who took over as the owner officially last summer, you saw him kind of itching to make a move to put his stamp on the organization and he made the decision to get ahead of this. There was no way Rivera was going to survive past 2019. So with four games to go, Ron Rivera out as head coach of the Panthers. Yeah, the timing is always going to be a surprise when it's in week, you know, 14 we're heading into it to Tuesday morning. It's actually the same day that Mike McCarthy was fired last time.

And I, last year rather, and I think the two cases are fairly similar. The Panthers know they're going to make a change. It's going to be a seismic one. And they hinted in the press release of adding a vice president to the mix, an assistant general manager to the mix, but do not mention Marty Herney, which would indicate the plan is to add pieces to the front office around Marty Herney, but his status is probably very much up in the air as well based on what coach.

He's going to figure that out later. So why wait around? I guess in theory you can start talking to some of these college coaches or guys like Mike McCarthy that are out there. That's what we heard in Green Bay. In the end, it didn't really matter in Green Bay. Like, you know, they had to wait for Matt LaFloor, and that's the most likely route

that the Panthers are going to have to take. There's another similarity to Mike McCarthy that his offense had stopped working. And that's what he was brought in for, his offense. He was an offensive guru. Ron Rivera, they've got quarterback problems, sure. But their defense dropped to 32nd and dead last and run defense DVOA last week.

They can't even stop the run when they stack the box. Since mid-season, they have been among the worst teams in blitz effectiveness and deep passing from their secondary. And they had dropped to bottom five or six defense overall in the league. This is what Ron Rivera was brought in for as defense. I thought it was interesting when David Tepper made very strong comments, and we talked about it on the show a couple weeks ago saying, person A, B, or C is not going to decide what happens to Cam Newton.

Let's start right there. This is an active, involved owner, and you have some owners that say, I've got the money. I want an NFL team as my play thing to invite people into a box and we can watch the game, and that's going to be great. But David Tepper took over Jerry Richardson's Panthers culture. And I think like when we've seen a lot of CEO shifts here, but in other companies I've worked for, the smart thing to do is CEO is not come in and fire everyone and bring in your friends two weeks in. You wait, you look, you examine the organization from top to bottom,

and then you make the changes you want to make after you've spent some time and that's what's happening here. I think that the, we can call it stunning that it happened right now. We're not that far away. We're a hop-skipping to jump away

from the end of the year. Does anybody really stunned? No. Not at all. It just seems to be the word. I guess the reference is, you know, we heard it on NFL Network that some assistants were stunned.

Stun because they're probably, you know, horse blinders on. You're just working towards the next thing. And he's been there nine years. So he was one of the longest tenured guys. And so I think it, that's going to be a shock no matter what. It's the kind of thing where like when Peyton Manning suddenly wasn't on the cult,

it's like visually, optically, it's hard to imagine any other coach on the sideline. But David Tepper has been giving rumblings of this when he's spoken for a long time that he was brought into a culture that obviously needed major changes. He could have fired him last off season. He didn't. He had some patience actually to let a guy who's had a lot of success. I mean, they won three straight NFC South championship. At a time when no one had ever won back to back in that division.

Right. One of those years was 7, 8, and 1. So that takes some luck. But he won Coach of the Year twice. I mean, that's more Coach of the Year awards than Andy Reid has, than Sean Peyton has, than Pete Carroll. Just behind Bill Belchick. Pete Carroll has.

And those years, the first one has a connection to our podcast, 2013. That was the original team of around the NFL, because Wes and, you know, myself, we enjoyed watching that team. It was a lot of fun. And Teper, If you watch the all or nothing season last year, you kind of got the vibe. They had installed a camera right in his luxury suite pointing down at him. And every game, because a big part of the all or nothing story, sometimes too big in my opinion,

but that's another conversation, is going through each game of the season. And Tepper's Box was a part of every game. I think as time goes on, you're going to see he's going to be one of the most forward-facing owners in the league because I think he enjoys it, the way Jerry Jones enjoys it. And I do have a missive from David Tepper that was released after the dismissal. Here it is. We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success. Our vision is to find the right mix of old-school discipline and toughness with modern and innovative processes.

We will consider a wide range of football executives that complement our current football staff. with one change that we will implement is hiring an assistant general manager and vice president of football operations. Did you guys mention this yet? Yes. Well, then I'll cut the miss of writing. Do you believe he wrote,

like, do you believe that these CEOs ever write that? Yeah. Well, I believe that they, I think they give verbal notes and someone else craft. He's not sitting there on Microsoft Word, you know, going through paragraphs and cutting a page.

There's a lot of buzz that, you know, he's analytic minded, that he wants, you know, something that's cutting edge. And he even, He even mentioned it, like a mix of old school football new school football. We'll see what that means. I do think that people are too ready to say goodbye to Cam Newton there and that Cam Newton could be extremely attractive to some coaching candidates that make

the case of why they have a plan to keep Cam Newton. Well, if your only other option is Kyle Allen and Will Greer who can't overtake Kyle Allen, then I think I would be shocked at this point if Cam Newton is not there next. Is this a good job? Yes. I mean, any NFL head coach job is a great job. If you click with David Tepper and you find out that two years in, you still click with David Tepper, I think it is. But the roster itself.

You got some players. You got Kwan Short, you got Luke Keakley, Shaq Thompson. The receiver group is good. You got Christian McCaffrey. It should have mentioned right at the top. I think so. And I think you have an owner that's going to spend. And we should mention Norv Turner is no longer their offensive coordinator.

He is the assistant to the new interim coach, Perry Fuel, and Scott Turner, Norfolk. son is taking over play calling, which is strange, and it reminds me kind of of a Rivera's challenge in this hiring cycle, because I'm sure he'll get interviews. He's a good coach and has a great record, but he's not an offensive coach. So what's his plan for offense? Who's he bringing with him wherever he would go? That's going to be the first question anyone asked him. They're moving into a brand new facility next year, just across the border in South Carolina. I think Rock Hill, they have an owner who seems from afar, who really wants to win, he's competitive, but lets his football people make their football decisions.

And I did like what he said about the mix of sort of that innovative new school approach with the old school discipline. I mean, I think most owners are probably going for that, but I think it's a good job. Kevin Colbert, by the way, the Steelers General Manager is unsigned going into next year. It went out of his way to not re-sign with the Steelers. And Tepper was the minority owner with the Steelers. Look at that dock connecting. For a long time.

That was good. That was good. I mean, so was Jimmy Haslam, so. And if... There you go. Steelers have that little pink pony operation of their own going on. And I do, Ron Rivera on the giant sideline, that makes a lot of sense to me. However, as we talked about downstairs, Dave Gettelman and Ron Rivera, not bedfellows at this point.

So maybe the GM would have to be swept out. Do we know that for sure? What a strange term. I don't even know. I mean, I would imagine Gettelman is out, but I mean, like, we, it's so funny how we assume that we know these two people don't like each other like each other we don't have I was going off what Greg said No I know but it's like

There's been some other thoughts that that could make sense Who knows? A reunion Reunion Oh That happens Other and child reunion

Greg is You know that one West? Oh yeah That's Paul Simon That's correct Greg does have these back channel whispers down You never know when he's He's coming loaded for a podcast

With material that you don't think he has Oh yeah He's privy to things It's called having Ian on speed dial All right All right, let's now circle back and let's do a little Monday night football talk. Big game.

Ross has got time. He's got David Moore wide open. More like to get. 15, 10, 5. Touchdown. Seahawks. From 6 yards, Russ looked up, saw David Moore running right past Savior Road

and said, here you go. Serves it up on a platter. And the Seahawks are on top, 26 to 17. and they're doing the Hula in the end zone, the Seahawks receivers. Wow, what a big play for Seattle. The Seahawks Radio Network, yes, the Hula. And I just want to say the touchdown celebration that they did

was one of the more impressive things I can remember. It was synchronized, had the Monday Night Football camera right in their face with a great sight line behind them. Bravo. Everybody's like, oh, I just like ball. No, no, it was great. I just like talking ball. It was from new edition.

Right. That's what I was. Is that what it was? I didn't think it was the Hula, whatever the Hula is. I think Black Sports Online posted the actual video in their rendition, and it was pretty good. Don't try slapping us down. Andrew Hocken. Andrew Hocken's made a great point.

You don't know how hard that is. They don't have any music. The crowd's going crazy and that you can be synchronized. That's tough. Wes is like, I'm silent because I am waiting to talk. I had a point or two I had to type in real quick to make sure if you came to me first with the game, you know, I have to give something solid. Okay, I'm coming to you first with the game, so get ready.

Greg and I are in trouble. We're not going to be heard from it. I don't have anything. Yes, the Minnesota Vikings went to Seattle. Things started well. They had the lead at the half, but then the Seahawks did what they always do, which is find a way at home. They started scoring recklessly.

in the second half, end up with a 37 to 30 win. Rashad Penny and Chris Carson have great game. Both of them, great games. Both went over 100 total yards. Russell Wilson made his big plays as he always does, including that David Moore touchdown. Wes, Seattle now takes over first place in the NFC West. It's a tie, but they have the tie rig with the Niners.

They move all the way up to the number two seed. How impressed were you by this particular performance? Well, it seemed to have a lot of the hallmarks of most of their late-game adrenaline-adrenaline rush performances. I think a difference in this one is we're seeing Rashad Penny now back-to-back weeks emerge as that one-two punch out of the backfield. This is starting to look like last year where their running game is just dominating. The offensive line probably had their best game of the year, and they piled up 444 yards on a good defense. and it seemed to me like they just offensively the Seahawks are now

bullying people in a way they wanted to early in the year and couldn't and defensively their defensive line has come alive and dictated the action over the past month and the way they didn't earlier in the year I thought they really overwhelmed the Vikings' offensive line

in this one. Along with Rashad Penny it's a team where they have some stars but you got every game key plays from guys like Geron Reed quandary digs who's been awesome and we talked about him, Bradley McDougald, Rishim Green, Zygianzzy, like they all did key things last night,

and they're using six offensive linemen to pound people. And I can't think of a coach whose image and overall higher ability in general has changed more under Pete Carroll than Brian Schottenheimer, who with the Rams and in previous stops was viewed as a stuck in the past, totally. He came out. He was viewed by Mark Sessler. Well, but you know what?

I was very down on, on it. And everyone else, including me. I heard me. I mean, Marty Schottenheimer is one of my favorite coaches, but I think Brian Schottner, who came into this year saying, we're going to throw to our running backs, we're going to use them in different ways. And it's proven true, especially now that it's two guys. And their offense is dangerous. And the Seahawks strike me as a team where we can look at a couple of these divisional winner types

where if they don't have the lead, you can get to them. They can be beaten. They need the lead to succeed and to flourish in certain cases. And the Seahawks seem like they can win. They've won two overtime games. No, the Seahawks seem. Seahawks have won two games in overtime in the past four weeks. They can win any type of football game.

I don't care where they're out at halftime. They're never out of it. We say it every week because it's true. Well, they also, I mean, they've, in their four biggest games of the year, they've given up, you know, defensive or special teams touchdowns. They've won a couple of them. They've lost a couple of them. Like, weird things happen in their games.

This was an interesting Monday, you know, prime time game with two stars at quarterback, and you had the cousin's angle. And I didn't think it was about the quarterbacks. I just didn't this was a game where the quarterbacks it's not that they didn't matter

but Cousins played pretty well I don't think it was one of Russell Wilson's best games of the year I would say as good as a year that he's had I would say it was probably

one of his worst games of the year you know a couple things he would take back with Schottenheimer though it's funny Seahawks Twitter

is you know is a wild magical place there's still an argument whether they're like good despite Schottenheimer or good because of him and there's definitely a lot of frustration

with like game management of, you know, they punt on fourth and one very early in the game despite that good running attack and the Vikings score right afterwards. They waste timeouts like no other team in the league. And it's like people... Well, that's not all in shot. It's weird.

Yeah, that's not all in shot here. I just wonder if like the biggest difference between Brian Schott and Hammer now is like Russell Wilson instead of Mark Sanchez. I mean, and that's not even a shot against him necessarily. Well, I'd say the same about Mike Patton. I'm just going to say like... With many offensive coordinators,

I would say most, you're tied to your quarterback. quarterback in so many ways. Maybe he's one of those guys. I have a wild suggestion for that corner of Seahawks Nation. What if? Stay with me here. Instead of litigating your offensive coordinator every week, just enjoy the ride the rest of the week. I mean, this is a team to enjoy. They had the ball for 40 minutes. And it's interesting because they don't have Tyler Lockett right now, really. He's out in the field, but he's not the same guy that he was early in the season. I think he has one catch over the last two weeks. He's someone that's played through injury, but not, you know, played well through injury in the past, and that's what's happening right now. Josh Gordon has not been a factor,

but they, but D.K. Metcalf has stepped up to the point where, Decath, Medcaf? Yes. He could be in the mix for offensive rookie of the year if you don't feel like giving it to a quarterback. I came out of this game, though. Behind Josh Jacobs. I came out of this game, like not, you know, and the Vikings are one of the teams that I've distinctly just said, that's fine, I know you're going to make the playoffs and you're going to get whacked at some point. You don't have to agree with me, but there's just too much high-class operations going on in the NFC right now. But this game in the loss made me think much more of them, the way that they did.

They could have been buried at one point. They fought their way back over and over, and I don't kill them for losing in Seattle on Monday night. I agree with that, but the Dalvin Cook injury bothers me. A shoulder for a running back really bothers me because I've seen so many good running backs go from running with abandon and fearlessness. We've seen it from Ryan Matthews and Mark Ingram when they had shoulder injuries to running with a completely tentative style after the shoulder injury.

And that's something to look for. They have a good backup with Madison, which will help. But he's not the same player. He's a totally different player. I hated the Vikings game because this was their chance up by a touchdown coming out of the half to really stamp themselves as we are one of the truly elite NFC teams. and I think it just reinforced to me anyway that they're just a tier below

maybe the top of that next tier but still not a team that I think is going to go through the NFC which is a gauntlet obviously this season. I just saw a team that could have wiped they could have lost this 42 to 20 and it would have been like,

I have no faith in you and I thought that their second half was one where they did not give up on any level. Right. They had some bad luck. I mean their first four drives were a three and out.

Cook gets in. injured and loses a fumble on the same play. Diggs drops a pass that turns into an interception. I mean, the pick six kind of averages. There were some wacky plays in this game. There were some crazy plays. But ultimately, Kirk Cousins did have a chance to go win the game on their last drive, and he played well in the fourth quarter.

But, you know, some of their play calling that you're, you know, you're throwing it to Laquan tread well, and then a covered Irv Smith is the only option on fourth down. I'm a little concerned if I'm a Vikings fan, that the run defense has been so bad in this game. The past defense has been bad in other. weeks. They bench Xavier Rhodes at one point. Still moving a step slow. And then he said after the game, you know, they tried to talk to him

and he's just like, I'm out the door. And that, you know, he, that's a bad situation. There's just like, there's just, secondary hasn't played well. Theilin's hurt. It's just, you know, Riley Reef is hurt. Their left tackle didn't play the second half of this game. They've got some issues they got to overcome, but the schedule's favorable. Yeah. And this, West, this is, I'm glad Greg brought it up so I didn't have to. But I will note that Kirk Cousins did take the field with three, seven, to play in all three times. Oh, my God.

You're going to try to make this about Kirk Cousins. It's got to be said. Oh, my God. This game in particular, you're going to try to make about Kirk Cousins. Someone needs to say it. No, you really don't. You really don't. You and the rest of Twitter do not have to say,

hey, this is about Kirk Cousins. You don't have to. Wait a second. I didn't say that. So you're being selective in what you're hearing from me right now. This loss was on their defense, mostly. But it should be said. He takes the field, 317 to play, three timeouts, down four points, and goes five and out.

That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. You could say that all I'm caring about is Kirk Cousins. But that was a moment. Because it happened at a time when you were watching, you think it's more important than any other game where a quarterback takes the field with three minutes left. No, I watch all the games, Wes. I'm saying this game. When's the last time you pointed out another quarterback in a similar situation, didn't get it done?

Because Kirk Cousins is different than the other quarterbacks. We've talking about it all years. Pitchforks and Torches crew on Twitter have decided he's a laughingstock and he's different. Where is the pitchfork right now? Where are the torches? You just brought it out. You did not have to talk about Kirk Cousins there. You really didn't.

The story of that game was not Kirk Cousins. See, you're in your feelings right now. I am saying it had to be said. I'm pointing out that you're being unfair. I mean, you tugged him into his feelings. I just said it just had to be said. He didn't get it done. It didn't have to be said.

That's my whole point. But it was said, Wes. And the narrative remains intact. Oh, right. Keep your narrative. I saw a couple. little websites trying to throw out cheap Kirk Cousins jokes and everyone shot them down and said, Oh, did you see any from me?

I didn't know, you didn't like S-I's little pop culture website or whatever. Oh, hey, let's do a Dr. Phil gift because Kirk Cousins. No, that's not good. Hey, guy, your jokes stale. When the guy leads the league in pass a rating for seven straight weeks, you're not really going to make jokes about his passing anymore. I, for one, just want to be on record. I'm glad you brought it up. And this was not his fault, West.

I'm with you. to talk about it because it was part of the game. No one saying it was his fault, I don't think it was. But that was an opportunity for their team that they will rue. I mean, they had an incredible comeback, and they did have a chance for a massive win that would keep them in first place in the NFC North that would have been one of the most stirring wins of the entire Mike Zimmer era. And when they got that ball, I like a lot of Vikings fans, kind of switch.

I mean, I was excited to like see what was going to happen. And the way it was going, it felt like maybe they're going to go down the field. I don't put it on Cousins. They also were very short on their wide receivers, but it was a blown opportunity that they're going to be angry about. I look forward to this with every other quarterback in the league, really. I mean, it has reached the point of absurdity. Every time Kirk Cousins has a chance to win,

we talk about him in a way we do with none of the other quarterback. Well, especially when the other quarterback is missing. They're starting wide out. They're star running back. I think the left tackle at that point, too. I get it. That's what would have made it, you know, more stirring. No one's putting in it on Cousin.

Cousins, if anything, there was some criticism. You know, it's just a tough spot where you're thrown to a covered Laquan Treadwell on third down. And then you have basically one option, no alternatives but to throw it to Irv Smith, who was well covered on fourth down. And that's it. The game's disappointing. I don't think Cousins had a good game. Really?

But he wasn't the story of the game. No, I don't think he was good. He checked down a little too much. I mean, a lot of that was because he was under duress, but he checked. down a little too much. He missed a couple of throws late. But I don't think that needs to be like a let's check in on Kirk Cousin situation because he played all right. He played okay. He wasn't the story of the game. I'd love to see him play each other again. We got the Packers Vikings week 16 should decide the NFC North. You never know. Both teams have cupcakes for the most part on their schedule

otherwise and that should decide who gets that. And Seattle, San Francisco, week 17. I think you should start checking in on Dan Bailey after every game. That's who you should check in on. Well, part of what, we've talked about this for weeks. I don't know why this is a surprise. Part of what makes Cousins fun is because he invites this type of scrutiny. He does, but his track record, O and 8 on Monday nights, West. Why is Monday night more important than any other than that?

Zero playoff wins. Do you think we get better games on Monday night because I don't? Zero playoff wins, and he's never won on Monday night football. These are the type of things that are attached to his resume. Okay, you want to talk about a late season win-and-go-home game? All right, I'm on board. Let's talk about it. this was not a late season win or go home game.

It was a Monday night game. It was an important game, though. At Monday night football, let's be honest, what's Mike Zimmer, what's their defense's record on Monday night? Like, to me, that's who lost this game. That's what I want to make clear. I'm not putting this on Kirk Cousins.

I mean, they had the ball. But why did you think we have to address the issue if you're not putting it on him? Because that is putting it on. Because I think he factored into the loss. You put it on him. He wasn't the main reason, but he didn't help him win.

Put it this way. It's 3430. Russell Wilson takes the field with a chance to win that game. I don't care who's on the field. Well, he did. I mean, he had a chance to go win the game, and he took an awful sack. But that's not the narrative. His defense won the game for him.

That's not the narrative. Which happened in San Francisco, too. He played, he threw an awful interception in San Francisco, and his defense helped win the game for him. We know there's a difference between those passes, which is why we don't have to talk about it after every game. 30 other quarterbacks would love to be Russell Wilson, too. I mean, Russell Wilson is incomparable with big, massive chunks.

chunks of the league. All right. Let's now do some news. The champ is here. It's back. The champ is here. Greg had it first. The champ is here commercial for NFL shop has come to it.

It looks like it's wound down and been replaced by a holiday ad. and that was a big that was a big get for you Greg I got to give it it was a big part of the season I haven't double sourced it so if it shows up back Sunday I mean I guess it's going to look bad and eat some crow on that but the champ has been here for so long he's been part of our life the champ being here

I miss him and I'll say this there is a subsection of football Twitter and this was news to me because I reported it and I properly cited you Greg was having it first that Patriots fans coming out of the woodwork. What? Upset that all these times

they've been watching this commercial, they're annoyed that no one's wearing Patriots gear in that commercial. The actual champs, we're not there. That's the level of, you know, those are the biggest issues they're dealing with right now. It's fan base.

It's like, yeah, that's not, it's a bunch of like young, hip, cool people dancing around. That's not really the Patriots, you know, fan. What about the Browns guy with the biting motion? See, here's the thing, I don't watch. So on Sundays, when we're tracking,

you know, three games at the same time, you're watching a television with sound, you have an earpiece in your ear with three other games or red zone happen. You got my TV. I don't have an earpiece on. I'm going, how natural.

So the champ is here commercial because when you get in that area of the day where three commercial breaks and you're happening at the same time and the champ is playing a second and a half off from each version and it's blasting throughout the entire room and then it happens 25 more times, and then you have Dan and Greg

singing it throughout the entire Sunday. I saw slamming it on the ground. Guess what? This stop being funny about two and a half months ago and you persist with the joke and it goes on and on and it's now a drop on our show. Thank you.

I mean, it cannot get to 9 o'clock quick enough on Sundays. Find a nickel for every time Greg went. The chimp is here and then the back of my neck just went. Right. And then it's Dan singing it and then someone else turning around and then it's actually on the television. You know who is happy about the champ? You too.

We get it. Jada kiss. Back in our life. Datakus. Was that his? Casting those checks. It's him and Eminem. Good for him and his money.

It's him rapping them. I think. All right. So, yes, Ron Rivera is canned, but Jason Garrett might not be far behind. Gerard Jones has been doing the media tour ever since the Thanksgiving loss to the bills put Dallas's season upside down.

And Gerard did, of course, he was in front of the locker room and tears talking about how this team had a, like, a Disney ending in store, and don't give up on a stad yet. And now he's on the radio, 1053 The Fan, and he's talking about Jason Garrett and being a head coach,

not necessarily with Dallas, but being a head coach in 2020. Nobody's got the exclusive skills to get the job done so that collectively you can win a Super Bowl. But they're qualified people. Jason Garrett is one of them. In my opinion, Jason Garrett

would be coaching in the NFL. NFL next year. Well, Mark, you just got mad about champions here. You got to be mad about that comment. Come on. Well, I mean, the one thing I said over and over is that I would not be surprised if joining Ron Rivera soon would be Jason Garrett, because the tidbit that interests me is Lincoln Riley, the Oklahoma coach, Ian Rappaport saying that he's formed in quotes a close

relationship with Jerry Jones. And I think that there is going to be competition, as I thought there would have been last year for Lincoln Riley, who has shown an ability to work with young college system quarterbacks. And so do you want to be the overly procedural cowboys that wait until after week 17? And yeah, you're the Cowboys, so you have an advantage no matter what. Or do you get on that bus sooner or later? You're already talking about Jason Garrett this way. If your boss was talking about you this way to people publicly, I'd be concerned. I'd be looking for, I'd be looking around and Jason Garrett you can see it on his face to some degree I feel like in games and

someone pinged me saying how can you possibly know what Jason Garrett is thinking by what he says on his face because we mentioned that during the Thanksgiving telecast or broadcast whatever it was that didn't get broadcasted and they're like he's the same face all the time I know he is but it just seems to have that look in his eyes where you can see it coming he's out and I think that if you really want Lincoln Riley and you want to move that train that Jerry Jones is already thinking that way Was that somebody that had their ear to the garage door at my house that was able to hear the podcast? No. They are one of the 10 or 12 people that it somehow escaped. It's not Eric's fault.

Not blaming Erica, nor would I ever. That would set a new precedent what you're suggesting, that a first place team earmarked for the playoffs would fire its coach. I mean, calling them a first place team is like the, what we got into with the Brock Osweiler leading the Texans to the playoffs thing. They're about his first place a team right now as... Me and Wes have been through a lot today. You don't have to bring up the Brock Oswald.

Oh, my God. Well, I'm not against him on that topic, but it was... Cowboys are six and six in first place, lost season. It would be weird because, yeah, they're trying... All they got to do is get to the dance, and they'll have a home game, and, you know, they'll know what's going to happen. I mean, in theory, he could decide he'd rather have Chris Rashard being the head coach, but why? It doesn't...

So they lost to Chicago. I still don't think. He basically said he'll do it through the end of the season. But it's just a hilarious quote. I mean, it's the most Jerry Jones quote ever. I wish every owner was like this, if you really think about it. I mean, he was willing to talk about it. Totally destabilizing?

He was like halfway through what he's saying, and he's like, wow, how do I save this? You know, he's defending Garrett, but he's, I think he'll be a coach in the NFL. Who knows? Might be a position coach. The rest of his explanation made sense. I thought he was on the right track. Exactly. He'll be a coach in the NFL.

And you know, sports are so stupid in the most beautiful way that you're right, Mark, like the Cowboys shouldn't be taken seriously and they're six and six and they're not a true playoff team. But, you know, watch them beat the Niners in Wild Card Weekend at home. I mean, it's like... That should not surprise anyone. I mean, just like this idea, I'm saying the idea, things change so quickly in the NFL. So I would think firing Garrett, or is that what you were saying that maybe you should be let go now? I'm saying I could see it. How about this? What if you wanted to get a under pressure look and what, this is not a Super Bowl team. And Jerry Jones, I know he's delusional at times, has to see that. What if you wanted

to give Chris Richard, who I think is a head coach himself in waiting a test run during a high-pressure month and see what happens because maybe the big thing that keeps coming up with Jason Garrett is cannot connect with players. Well, maybe Chris Richard can and turn this locker room into something else, and you go avoid these post-game shouting matches in the locker room. They are not on the same page as a team.

I would say beware of small sample sizes too, like Freddie Kitchens using him as an example. I totally hear you. Doug Marone got his job from two games with Blake Bortos, one of which they lost. That's fine. You know what you have? You have a large sample size

on Jason Garrett. What's that gotten you? It's going to get you more of the same a month from now. I would respect that. It would take some stones to turn the team over to Chris Rashard and maybe it would produce some results

that you weren't getting from Jason Garrett. So we're going to fire Garrett? No. I'm saying it's in the air. It's possible. It's got to be possible. That would be stunning to me. What if they got waxed 30 to 7

on Thursday night football against the Bears and you and I have to wait 15, 20 minutes, 30 minutes to do our wrap up because this news is breaking. I could see that being a possibility. That sounds terrible. Don't even speak that into the existence of the world. Well, you know, you also just want to wait for the press conferences, I think, get some sound. You know, you want to cover it. That's a big story.

I might get a sleeping bed for you for the garage mark. We'll call you two in for it because that would definitely need all four of us. Let's move on. The Jacksonville Jaguars are in tatters right now, speaking of Doug Morone, and following a 28-11 loss to the Bucks in which Nick Foles turned it over in each of his first three possessions, all three of those positions leading to touchdowns for the enemy.

Morone went back to Gardner Minchew at the half and he announced what we all expected that Minchew will stay in the lineup both this Sunday against the Chargers. The Chargers and for the balance of the regular season. So Minchew back in and the Minchew maniacs get their guy, and that's good. I would say, to me, Mark, the biggest storyline now out of this is what the hell are they going

to do with Nick Falls? This guy, they just signed to, what, an $88 million contract with a ton of money guaranteed? What is the next step in this marriage now? Well, I think it's a wait and see, and it's if the next coach that goes to Carolina has a lot to think about and a lot to ponder along with the rest of the team for Cam Newton, so does the next coach in Jacksonville. There's going to be a new coach there, barring something. shocking. That would be stunning if you want stunning.

And they've got to figure out what to do with this situation. And I will point out that the minute Gardner Minchew came in, the Browns were up 10-0 Baxter, Baker Mayfield was on fire and what happened to the Browns, the minute Minchew came in. And I'm telling you, what's your theory?

My doppelganger theory that they're too much alike and there's too much of the same thing. And the Gardner Minchew pulled energy. Gardner Minchew went out of the lineup. The Browns won three in a row. He came back in with them up 10-0 in Pittsburgh against the Steelers. Baker-Mayfield is a terrible fumble. The Browns melt away.

Gardner's back starting again, troubling. So what do you want to happen then? I am very conflicted now because I like Gardner Minchu too and I don't know what to do. He would have to struggle, right? All of it ends after this season. Whatever is happening mystically ends after this season. Well, like in Carolina, yeah, I think the next coach and possibly the next GM are going to decide what they do at quarterback. and Foles is almost impossible to cut.

You end up paying more money on the cap to cut him than you would just to keep him. But he could be very tradable if you're willing to eat some of his salary cap and that becomes a little more palatable that if they really want to get rid of them, I think someone would trade for him, especially if the Jaguars eat some money.

But again, I don't think Foles, it didn't work for the three, I mean, talk about small sample size. It didn't work for the three games. three and a half games he played coming off a serious injury, obviously. But they're in better shape at quarterback than they have been, you know, for the rest of this decade with Foles and Minchu. So I don't think it's like some, you know, emergency.

Their team is an emergency. I was surprised I looked at your power rankings, Dan. I mean, to me, they'd be number 32. I think they are the worst team in the NFL right now. I mean, in terms of how they're playing. They have not been within three scores of an opposing team in five straight game four straight games that's outrageous i blew it there you didn't blow it i just say they're not even there's a case uh the late 20s i would imagine full's just a bad he's just a bad combination with

that offensive line which was getting its doors blown off by buccaneers pass rushers in that game and even minshu when he came in had to make incredibly quick jump cuts to get out of the way just to get passes off and and i think the three games we saw with fools it looked like a much less effective version of the Flacco Broncos offense, where you had this, as Mark would say, stone pony behind an offense. Stone Age pony who cannot block and Fools just moved too slow.

Chad Khan was kind of the David Tepper of the league when he came in. He's done some interesting things, including making them the team of London. I am really fascinated to see what they do with their offseason and they're about as analytic-minded as any team in the NFL. Finally in news, Kai Forbeth. Oh, boy.

He's been evicted from the kicker club. That was quick. A day after appearing in his first game with the Patriots, a game in which he missed an extra point, but he absolutely hammered a 23-yard field goal through the uprights and also hit an extra point. The Pats decided to go in a different direction. So, Fort Beth was waived,

and Nick Falk, who's been on the mend following that appendectomy, which led to the Fourbeth signing, Is folk back in now? Or are they looking for another kicker? And what are we up to? Five? Is this how you win Super Bowls? If folk is healthy, yeah, and the plan is he's back.

So yeah, he's... Stephen Gaskowski, they started with. Then they went to the nuge. Then they went to Folk Hero, and they brought him off a golf course. Then they got Kai's Kai and now back to Folk. I believe so. You know, because it's the Patriots, no one actually knows. You know, it's like, hey, who needs an appellate?

get back out on the field folk it's like i don't know and i and i say for the um for all the kye heads out there that this is the best thing that could have happened because you didn't want to see him thrive with the evil empire let's let's get him back and let's get him practicing right now you're a fan of kai i because ever since we kind of connected the dots that i might have something to do with it potentially oh yeah who would want to have a career changing Playoff kicks in Foxborough. That would be terrible for him. Give me a break.

This was his chance. I liked it. No matter who they tried out there at this point, he's blowing the game for him. My favorite, I think. But I want him to get back in the league with a team that's not the Patriots. I am convinced that Belichick took a delay of game penalty to make Kai's extra point a little longer in the second half of that game just as a test. And that was his, I'm just going to mess with Kai a little bit. I'm going to look at the long.

term picture and see what Kai, how he handles this, and Kai yanked it. And at that point, he was an ex-page. How much money did he make for essentially one week of work with the Patriots? I don't know if it's over under like 20 grand, not a bad. Oh, it's got to be more. Oh, it's, well, yeah, minimum is what, 800,000 and then you divide that by 17, so. Be a kicker. Be a bad kicker that gets pulled in, like, buy a team for one week and make, you know, 60, 70,000, I think. 60,000, and then go back and do nothing for the next. two years. Sounds great.

I mean, the problem with Kai, Kai's Kai, you got used to that lifestyle when Kai was really Kai. And suddenly you got a mortgage to pay. Sky High Kai, they called him. You got women, you got everything. Well, we don't know that he has all those things. And one last note in the news. I always like these things.

One of the best plays of the year was that trick play on Sunday night. Doshan Watson receiving the past some DeAndre Hopkins. It was revealed that, Hopkins and Watson drew it up on a piece of notebook paper and handed it to the coach. I like when football gets like broken down to just kids in a playground. Feels very 1970s. It's awesome. It's a great little twist to that.

They've been practicing it for four weeks. Very similarly, the Steelers players were talking about how Mike Tomlin got on the chalkboard at halftime against the breath and broke it down when they were in high school. Here's what we're going to do to break Mark Sessler's heart. Yeah, it's like, you know. Not even a dry erase board. Chalkboard. I like that.

Zolak, do you think he's gotten over it yet, by the way? The loss? Well, the trick play. Oh. He hasn't acknowledged it. That might be coming back. Nice try. It ain't coming back, Scotty.

Did you really not listen to it before we were on the show? No, I swear to God, that was the first time I'd heard it. It delivered. Can I hear that again? It delivered. It seemed like you knew it was going to be good. That might be coming back. No, that's not going to stand.

All right, that's what's happening in the news. Real quick, let's check in with the teams that we forked two weeks ago today because there needs to be accountability, of course, and we're all about that. So let's see. The teams that we forked, do we have our old? Yeah. Stick a fork in them. Check.

All right. We had forked. You know, I look back at this and listen, I was like, come on, guys. I mean, if we're going to do it, we should do it. More aggressive, brother. Bangles, Redskins, Giants, Dolphins, Bucks, Jets, Cardinals, Lions, Broncos, Bears, Falcons, Chargers, Panthers. That was weird. And I was pushing for the Eagles, which they've lost both games since, but they're still just one game out.

So that would be a ballsy one. The Browns we were all in favor of keeping. Was there another team that we were on the fence a little bit at the time? We discussed the Rams. discuss the Rams they lost but then had a win and they're kind of hanging around this is our last chance to fork

I think we should stick our necks out a little bit here Wait we're actually going to fork teams today I didn't know that No I mean Brown certainly while we're here We should You know

Take out the codpiece You know what I mean Let's get out there and risk it You can get rid of Cleveland No risk it no biscuit Oh yeah Cleveland's Cleveland's gone. Is that I had this original?

I didn't know what to cite. All right, I would vote for the Browns as well at this stage. They're going. Okay, get the Browns out. Eagles. I mean, this list looks, you know, of course I'd had to be Sheck doing that. We were ahead of the game because all these,

those teams that were on the borderline have lost two straight since we, since we forked. Oh, the Bears have won two straight and no one's worried about that. I'd still forked the Bears. Absolutely, of course. They're still okay, because their, their schedule is treacherous, the rest of them. Eagles? Yeah. Fork them. I'm keeping them alive. I don't, this Cowboys team is such a mess that I just, I just, you know, that, that game is a

playoff game for the Eagles. The Cowboys could get in otherwise, but, uh, Greg, you're a slick one. What? And you want this to go away. Why wouldn't you vote a team that you think could make the playoffs, thus ending the segment forever? I feel like this is a chess move that you would have employed. You a slick one It's going to be on my tombstone He was a slick one I have too much integrity I think the Eagles have a shot

Too much integrity That's the reason Is there any other team Besides the Browns I feel like we're I don't think you can fork the Rams Oh the Raiders I could have

I actually wanted to forked the Raiders Two weeks ago But I felt bad for their They're heading in the wrong direction I would fork them to just I want them to hang around Especially Mark I know you're going there a few weeks. We want some drama there.

Not because I think anyone believes that they're going to be on the edge of a playoff. Yeah. Are they really hanging around? I mean, they are. They're only one game behind the Steelers and Titans. And so if they beat the Titans on Sunday, they're okay. They're seven and six. They are. I just don't. Their schedule is Jaguars, Chargers, Broncos after them. I don't want to fork them. I don't want to. See, you were the one you're talking on the both sides of your mouth here. No, but I'm saying that particular team I don't want to do. I know. We all have particular team. Right. Exactly. That's why it's hard to all agree on it.

Well, I was trying to get the Eagles out two weeks ago. Let's get them out. No, I'm sticking with him. Raiders and Eagles out. I would get rid of the Raiders. And... Would you get rid of the Raiders, Mark? And I would get rid of the Colts.

I would. Colts are out. Let's get the Colts out. Get them out. Here's the thing, though, they took the Colts. Their schedule is pretty favorable. They do have to play in New Orleans. So if you need to get to 10 wins, it's going to be tough for them.

Hey, they lost to Pittsburgh, too. so they don't have a tiebreaker against Pittsburgh. That's rough. They have the Panthers and Jaguars to finish up in the bucks this week. But, yeah, I'm going to fork them. They could go two and two. Jake Brisket is throwing passes to, like, UPS delivery men and mailmen at this point. All right, I'm down to fork them.

I suggest. They go on. See, that's where Greg sneakily gets a team out that might just get back in without it being too overt like that. What about the Rams? No. I just, honestly, I think I'd be the first person to say, remove it, but I'm a little freaked out after their last

we can get into that in our next segment, but it's I plan to get into it in our next. All right, let's hold up on it. All right, so the Cleveland Browns, the Indianapolis couch. They're both gone and still, you know, the codpiece, I would say still, it's secure. It's like from a Shakespearean play setting. I would fork the Raiders just for the fun of it,

but then we'd be rooting against the Raiders. I don't know. I don't know if it feels right. They're not fun to root against the season. Hey, here's a good reason to do it. They've been outscored 74 to 12 the last two weeks. That's terrible. They're not good.

I mean, that's 74 to 12. Watch them win Sunday, though. Fine. These things don't seem to mean anything. I get it. But getting blown out like that badly two weeks ago, you're not good. And could they win three out of four? I really doubt it.

But even that wouldn't get them in the playoffs. This is a pretty safe fork in my mind. I mean, I think they're a team that should be happy to split their last four. Anybody else? I would because I'm with you. Yeah. There you go. Oh, congratulations.

So we forked three more teams. And Ricky, how many did we have before that going into today? We had, I sent them to you. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen. This is the goal that we always set. we wanted to fork half the league. 13 plus 3. 19.

19. 8. 3. 32 minus 16. It goes 16. That's half the league. So we've forked half of football. Now the cod piece is inching out.

Inch by inch, Wes. If I've ever figured out what this means, I'm going to like it. All right. I mean, 74 to 12, the one touchdown was in garbage time that they were desperate. That drive annoyed me. They were just like so desperate. I still see them finishing 9 and 7. All right. Let's now, this is kind of like a sister segment here. Which team changed your mind the most in week 13, Wes? I know you're excited, Wes. Let's get going with you here. Which team did, you know, you watch him, you said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop the clocks.

Well, Mark alluded to this a minute ago, but the Los Angeles Rams, whom I've been saying for the past six weeks, just not a good. football team. Their offense is broken. Their offensive line is not trustworthy. They're all pro running back is a shell of his former self. The quarterback hasn't played well in over a year. And the defense, defense actually pretty good this year. And what I saw against the Cardinals, and you can say, hey, it was the Cardinals. Sure, there's some of that. But the Cardinals had played the 49ers to the Nails in two straight games. They played a really close game with the Bucks. We have been saying the Cardinals looked pretty good. And the Rams came out partying like it was 2017.

By the way, welcome back Todd Gurley. He's back. He's been pretty good the last three. So you're saying he's moving like the Todd of Earl. Or old. I would say for the first time this year, when I saw Todd Gurley play, I thought, yes, you can justify that contract in 2020. He looked explosive, elusive, smooth, no longer just a grinder, which he had been most of the year. His best run of the game was a 28-yard touchdown that was called back on a holding penalty.

I think, were exploded through the hole, looking like 2017 Todd Gurley. And my contention is that this offense has always been about Todd Gurley. Everything about the offense is about Todd Gurley, opening things for the play action game and Jared Goff. If he's playing at that level, this is a team. Because I think you can look at that game where it's mid-third quarter, Rams have 492 yards in Cardinal CF-71. And you say, which one is more impressive, the smothering ball-hawking defense, or the

smooth as silk big play offense in that game smooth as silk they were smooth i mean golf was in in rhythm girly was explosive robert woods was making they're going up against uh one of the worst past that's fair and hammered them and do you trust that i've i've been on like believing that they can turn it around for much of the year and i think they've had stretches people slept on that their offense had some good performances including in seattle it just comes down to can you win i think they can beat the seahawks this week that's what their season comes down to it though you got to beat the Seahawks, and then you've got to win in Dallas to set up that it matters week 16 going to San Francisco. So it's a very tough road for them. Well, you could get, if the Vikings go in the hole,

you could get that wild card. Right. But you still probably got to, no matter what, you got to win, I think, three out of these four. The question for me is their offensive line. They're the one area I still don't trust. I don't know if they can play that well against, and according to pro football focus, even though they were getting 500 yards by the middle of the third quarter, the offensive line still played poorly, except for Whitworth. They were on my list, too. I've been hard on them all year, and they gave me pause a big time at watching the game pass of that film, too.

The Rams to me, every year you get one of these teams that's kind of been a sleeper all season long, and they awaken for the last four games. They win three or four. They win four or five, and they sneak into the wild card. And, like, this team has a playoff experience. I wouldn't put it past it. That was one of the most impressive performances by any team all year. Make Sunday night a fun, a good one for Allen, Chris, Seattle, Los Angeles.

Yummy. All right. Mark, which team changed your mind? Well, I'll start with a team that I was destroying days before on Twitter, and it was Pittsburgh, because I really, really believed that Pittsburgh... Comprehensive hammer. Yes, I'd said that a comprehensive hammer drop was about to occur, and I couldn't have been more wrong.

I fell into a trap of not understanding what the Steelers have been all along. They've really been this team all along. And I know that Mike Tomlin, there's a pocket of Steelers fans and a pocket of football people that think that Mike Tomlin should have been gone before or should be gone. At some point, this is Coach of the Year material for me and what I really think of when I think of Coach of the Year because of what has been stripped away and how many excuses he could have. And his, just the way he marches around on the sideline and the way that, and to the point, chalkboarding at halftime, and he doesn't care is in there. And, you know, as I'm going to this Raiders

game and I'm doing some research on the Raiders of the 70s and late 60s and early 70s, who were essentially misfits, an AFL outfit that almost went bankrupt and then became an NFL giant because Al Davis just believed in every single person on the roster and he brought people in that no one wanted and they believed they would win every week, and they won with lesser rosters than some other teams had. And it reminds me of Pittsburgh's total, tough-minded, badassery week after week. They're total men,

and they proved it against a Brown's team with too much talk around it, too much chaos and the lack of discipline, and who cares how much talent they have. Pittsburgh didn't care, and they changed my mind going forward in the sense that I don't care about the record, I don't care about who they play,

I don't care about who's playing quarterback. They have a chance every week. they're going to make the playoffs and they're going to win their first round playoff game. Well, I do care who's playing quarterback, and that's why they helped convince me that they're a factor, because Duck Hodges did look good. I was skeptical. It was such a limited sample size that we saw him before.

I think he showed a little more in this game than he did previously. I mean, Duck Hutton's fun. He's a little Philip Rivers-like the way he throws it and slings it down the field. Not a big arm, but a good downfield thrower. I was impressed that after he threw an awful interception, that they let them keep throwing to win the game. It was a big show of confidence. Benny Snell ran pretty well for them.

I love the way Deonti Johnson. They have just enough offense, which I didn't think they had. But with Duck Hodges, I do think they have just enough offense to be a factor. Depending on the opponent, right? I mean, does this act work once you get to the superpower stage? No, probably not. But I didn't, this whole year, I did not think they could make the playoffs. And now I realize they beat those Rams a few weeks ago.

They have a pretty good chance to make the playoffs. Now, his nickname is duck. There's a story floating around that him and James Washington, they go hunting together. They hunt duck. So I assume that's where his nickname. He's always been a duck hunter. How many ducks do you have to shoot to get the nickname duck?

I mean, what do you think is kill count? I believe he's an expert duck caller, and that's what came from. Right, he won that, you know, Al. But you don't call the duck to pat him on the head if you get me. Because he started that Sunday night game when we were in London, and Al leaned into the, I mean, the whole telecast was about the competitions he won, statewide duck hunting competitions. He loved it.

It was Al at his finest. Love it. All right. You go, Greg. The bills, I was worried everyone was just going to just say the bills. And you didn't, so I'm pleased because I fell into the trap of kind of like you see a team all year and you get caught into like, well, they're not as good as their numbers say they are and their defense isn't as good. as everyone says there.

And like, I think that was true the first two months, but I wasn't unbiased enough to see what was happening that this team was now playing to what their record was and their defense is now playing to what we expected at the beginning of the season. And most importantly, Josh Allen is, I mean, played the best game of his career in Dallas and has played three.

I think the two games before it were good, maybe a little overheated, but good enough and enough of him running the ball that this team is dangerous. and they've played their best three games of the year, I think, in a row. And that's what you want to be entering December. Well, to your point, Aaron's shots from Football Outsiders tweeted late last night, Josh Allen's DVOA was minus 24.8 in weeks one through five,

and it's plus 6.7 from week 7 to 13. He's been an above average quarter. Not turning it over anymore. And with that team and that defense and the way they're operating, that's kind of the key from him. Yeah, how would you explain that turnaround? Was there a schematic shift? Is it just him getting more and more comfortable?

We forget that he's only been around, what, for about 20 NFL starts? 25. Avoiding mistakes, I think, is the number one. Right. Just being a little more careful. I think dialing it back a little bit. And he's gotten into, he got in the Dallas game, at least, into a good hot streak of good decision-making and good throws. He just haven't seen it that offer.

I think increased comfort with Cole Beasley and John Brown week after week. John Brown quietly leading or was leading before last week the AFC in receiving. And just as importantly, though, Matt Milano is everywhere, and the defense is the game-wrecking defense that we talked. We were very high on the bills going into the scene. Well, we love the secondary. Saying that they could win 10 or 11 games because they're defense, and you've really seen it the last three weeks.

And Ed Oliver's been a new man since he got benched. He's just played a lot better. He's been good. I think you can trade Josh Allen's good play also back to Devin Singletary emerging as the feature back there. The bills have who this week? The Ravens. They have the Ravens.

They have the Patriots. They have the Steelers. At Pittsburgh and at New England. It's as tough as it gets. But I don't care. I think they're just going to be a load to deal with, even if the Ravens win that game and they're going to be a load to deal with

for the Steelers and the Patriots. If they ever won, they're at home against Baltimore, so that's, you know, they have a shot. If they ever won that game and the Pats lose and they got the head-to-head matchup coming up, that is, wow. Can you imagine that? Nobody would have predicted that before the season.

You could also draw a journey to 10 and 6, and I'm high on the bills and super enjoyed them and root for them as like a pet team, but that's a playoff run right there. Right, but at Pittsburgh, to me now, I think at Pittsburgh at New England are, you know, more winnable than I, certainly at Pittsburgh, and New England's more winnable than I thought it would be.

In 10 and 6 probably gets you in. You think at Pittsburgh's more winnable than you thought it would be? Well, because the bills look this good. Yes. I don't trust anyone winning in Pittsburgh right now. I also would say that... I just think that's an even matchup at worst for them. Buffalo, New England is not a normal game.

The same way that the Jets and the deal with New England and bad teams deal with that one superpower in their own division, there are a lot of ghosts hanging around that, and that would be an epic, gigantic, huge victory for so many more reasons than the current state of the team or the record. Speaking of ghosts hanging around, the Texans changed my mind in week 13. I've always liked the Texans.

I like O'Brien. I love the quarterback. But it always did feel like there was an intimidation factor or a little brother complex with the Patriots, you know, the Letterman jackets and all that. And I have to admit when certain Texans players showed up Sunday in Kevlar vests and reposing in the tunnel underneath the stadium, I thought it was 50-0.

Very consistent. Bavani Jones had a great point that it had a magic mic vibe to it. It was so bad. It was the most... Like, happy birthday! If the most cringy thing that's happened in this season was Jalen Ramsey getting out of the armored truck with the money bags and the hype man

to an empty parking lot at Jacksonville training camp, this was right there or even a smidge above. So that was on my radar. And then they went out and played with absolutely no fear against the Patriots. That was a big takeaway from the game for me. Not only did they win, they played loose, they played confident, you know, the trick play we talked about. Zolak, you remember the trick play, don't you?

That play, that just showed... That might be coming back. They're not afraid of them anymore. And I think that's a big subplot around the NFL right now that people maybe are pumping up too much that the Patriots are going down in flames. I don't believe that necessarily. But I do now sincerely believe after this win,

which I think was big on a number of levels, that the Texans, and I'll go with the quarterbacks here, the holy trinity in the AFC of young quarterbacks, which is Mahomes, Lamar, and Watson, one of those guys is going to rise up and take over the AFC and is going to take the crown in January. I just feel like this is the year, and I'll probably be eating my words come the end of January.

But I would not have put Watson in that category until I saw the way the Texans played, again, with no fear against the Patriots. I don't think they would be a pushover. against New England in January. It's an amazing setup in the AFC. I think, I mean, we're lucky. We've had some years where it hasn't been like this.

That these quarterbacks, Watson, Lamar, and Mahomes are leading three of the best teams is awesome, I think, for a football fan. And you still have the old guard, like Breeze and Brady are going to be in that mix, and Russell Wilson's kind of in between. But to have, like, these, I don't know, it's like a great setup for. for the playoffs this year. I hope it doesn't last out. One little thing I'd note is that the SWAT uniforms,

we're just going to get more and more of that because I don't think that as its own thing would be annoying. You had Seahawks players last night showing up in pajamas. You had another group of Seahops players. The Texans linebackers have been doing it a few weeks. It's all based off of it's NBA.

It was a mortal combat. That was what it was a few weeks ago. The SWAT uniform, they weren't wearing shirts, right? Right. They look like Chippendale's dance. It's not going away. You're going to get more and more. So, I'm telling you.

Settle in for a fun December. This is the happiest I've been with the NFL in months. Look at what's going on. Jaguar, Steelers, Bengals, Broncos, Redskins are all playing their best and or most exciting quarterback after making some weird decisions. There's no tanking going on. When the only question is really Philip Rivers among quarterbacks, the league is in for a good place in mid-December.

It doesn't hurt that the Redskins, Dolphins, Jets, Bengals have. all played better over the last month where there doesn't seem like as many just total walkovers. Someone even shook awake Al River on. We might be a good shake. That is true. That's a good point. All right. There you go. Good seg. Oh, hold on real quick. Two teams you do not want to see on your schedule for December. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers, you don't want anything to do with them right now. No, no, no, no. Their front seven is getting after people and their offense is explosive. And you don't want to play the Bengals right now. They're not the pushover you thought they were. By the way, speaking of the Bucks, your little Shaq Barrett narrative.

When I have Evan Silva tweeting at me about Shaq Barrett, me alone. Who's narrative? Well, because what I said was, my narrative? I said that every year, not in this, I'm looking at the whole room. Every year, I said every year there's a player that jumps out to eight sacks. Usually they'll get three or four in one game. And then they flatline. It had nothing to do with the person of Jack Barrett.

You predicted he would. You also did follow that up and predict he will get stuck at nine. That only confuses the point, Greg. I agree with you. The one guy I was thinking of was the year that Lorenzo Alexander for the bills jumped out. Adrian Claiborne did it? Clayboard, yes. I mean, that's what I'm saying.

But then now it's turned into Mark is against Jack Barrett. I couldn't be happier for Shaq Barrett. Well, the great thing is it continues. Wait, what did you say about Evan Silva? He tweeted at me about some Shaq Barrett, like, you know, metrics tweet. And I was just like, I just clicked like because it's like, it's just gone. You know, he could. He has an outside, he's two sacks.

He's got 14 and a half now. He is two sacks away from Warren Sab. franchise record. Wow. And guess what? He's knocking on the door. What if, Shaq, what if he sets the NFL record

and restores the dignity and the pride to the all-time NFL record? Would it be more happy for him if he does? I think it's 22 and a half or something like that. I think we'd have to replace Mark. Well, that's fine. That's what would happen.

He'll become the highest paid defensive player in league history this off season. It'll be great. I'll become a mid-tier paid blogger somewhere else. The all-time... The NFL record is 22 and a half. So he'd have to get hot. He needs eight and four games.

But he had seven and two games earlier this season, leading to Mark's attack. Attack. Generalized attack on NFL trends. All right. Real quick. Thursday night football preview. We already talked a bunch about Dallas.

We know that they, despite being in first place in NFC East, they've just been playing so inconsistent. And I forget, it feels like a million years ago, Wes. They were 3 and 0, you know, and now they're 6 and 6. and I'll do the math on this one. They've lost six of nine. That's bad. That's like what a bad team does.

Yes. So are they a bad team as it turns out? Or are they so dysfunctional internally and with Jera piping up all the time is it just created like a tight atmosphere? There's all sorts of questions that ask just beyond what the talent on the roster is. And now they go to the Bears on the road in primetime.

West's feels to me like a little bit of a dangerous a spot for the Cowboys who obviously need a get right game in the worst way. They do need to get right game. And I think they're the kind of team that sort of defies any kind of facile analysis. When so much of what they're doing wrong is the little things are coming back to bite them, randomness, which you saw in that stretch against the bills where had bad luck. Every bad break went against them against the bills for a two-quarter stretch where they dominated the first quarter. I thought it was Zeke's best first quarter of the entire season, breaking tackles

and they were only up seven and nothing at the end of that quarter when they should have been up more and that came back to bite them a lot of what comes back to bite them is their own doing and their own lack of rhythm and their own lack of getting everyone

on the same page but I mean I just don't look at this team and think they're not talented they're clearly talented and I think Dax played well but this is a tough spot you know I think the bear's defense

is good enough to hold them down I've been disappointed with the Cowboys' offense the last couple of weeks. I know it's been a tough matchup. You had the weather in New England, but I just, I didn't expect them to have, I think they had six straight trips inside Bill's territory where they didn't score a point.

By the way, Witton's killing them. I know we gave him credit or in the year. He's killing them right now. It's a pretty fascinating six and six versus six and six game. As that type of matchup goes, there's a lot at stake here. That three and oh start whipping up on the Giants, Redskins and Dolphins, right?

There are other wins. Eagles, Giants again, lions. Their losses, they lost to the Saints, Packers, the Jets, the Vikings, the Patriots, the Bills. They playoff teams, they lose. And the one thing that they've going for them is that the Bears deserve credit themselves for toilingly, endlessly in that world called mediocre. So I think it's just too relatively overall, I don't care of the talent on the roster. That's on Garrett for not coaching up the talent.

mediocre teams squaring off two days from now. These are the teams, Mark, knowing you, that you, they're on your radar. When we get to December and teams that are hanging around but have no business being spoken of as a Super Bowl contender, they just need to be sent to the wind. Well, I mean, the Bears were very nearly taken out by David Blow and the Blauhearts, and that would have been an awesome Thanksgiving Day story. Let's calm down on Blow. I watched that game, and I was like, what?

I don't need to come down on David. Trubisky thoroughly outplayed it. You know that Marcus started a small fan club called the Blauards. Blow to me looks like a poor man's duck Hodges. It was just kind of fun that you expected nothing and then there was a touchdown or two. I don't think the performance itself worked. It's like he made three or four throws that were like nobody, no defender was it within 10 yards of the receiver. It was like blouse great.

Come on. Blowards fight back. Well, the blowards are going to rage on. There is going to be, we're in issue one of 426 issues of the Blowhard newsletter, which will, you know, this will go on for the next 40 years or so. Chubisky played a little better. Anthony Miller had a breakout game. That's his first 300-yard game of the year. Are we going to overreact to Chubisky too? No, I'm not.

In fact, I think even if he plays better, I do think this is where they take their dirt nap. Finally, the Bears. You're going to lock him up again? No. I'm not going near the Cowboys there. No. Not on the road.

I mean, this is a winnable game for Chicago, too. But I do think, I think, I'll lock up the Cowboys. Let's do it. Well, you're hot. You know he's won four in a row. Oh, I know. You and I have the same record now. You're coming after.

You've already caught me, and you're coming after the top. I don't have any aspirations. We're taking this one week at times. That lot trophy is sitting on your desk, or it was at least. We're taking this one week at a time. All right, Mark and I will be handling the Thursday Night Football Recap of the game we just previewed. And then you'll hear from the gang of four. Your last one of the year.

Did you know that? That's it. We are wrapping it up. Wes and I will take the next Thursday night and that's it for TNF for this. Jets Ravens, get ready for a barn burner. That's what it is? I'm so thankful.

Really, I'm thankful ultimately for that meltdown in Cincinnati because I did not want to be in a situation where the Jets were 7 and 7, and I'm getting super amped for a Thursday night game in Baltimore. I don't need that. Have you noticed what's going on this week in Jets country? I'm typically plugged in, but what are you? I think Lev Bell's camp

is starting to leak word that he's just not being used right and that's been the problem all year like you're starting to see all these articles are popping up that Lev Bell is just used irresponsibly by the head coach. It was definitely,

maybe it's from his camp, it was definitely on the beat writer's radar immediately because he got 10 carries in a game against the worst run defense in the league but I mean, who cares, we'll talk about the Jetson. He could start his own newsletter

with Kenyon Drake. David Johnson, he's just not on the team anymore really. What's up of that? Well, let's save that for Thursday, So, got a lot to talk about still. And we're not going to speak between now and then. We don't do that anymore because why? Ricky didn't do it.

Dan Hansa signing off for Quiet Storm, the mailman, the old boss. Ricky, I didn't do it. Holiday behind the glass. Till Thursday. Hey, Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On move to six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies. To evaluate team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it.

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