NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Saints-Dolphins Recap and NFL Unsolved Mysteries

Episode Date: December 28, 2021

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal recap the Dolphins win over the Saints. The heroes throw out their NFL unsolved mysteries so far this season. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. Tom Brady is your daddy. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. I'm Dan Hansis. I got some heroes from virtual parts unknown.

Well, I know where they are. Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler, Ricky Hollywood, somewhere in West Hollywood. The boys, somewhere in West L.A. We're all together via the Internet, though. What's up, guys? Nailed it. You were at the office today, though, you know? There's still some people going in, taping the power rankings, right?

Yep. I was there, the NFL network headquarters, and there's more maintenance people there right now than employees, it seems. So there's kind of like an eerie, it's like of those zombie movies when they're in a mall and you hear some top 40 radio hit playing. It's just eerily silent. Otherwise, that's what it's like at the office right now. Hopefully, this is a temporary setup where we're doing these shows remotely from the podcast, but that kind of came down from Mount Olympus. So that's where we are right now. We're just happy to be healthy because it seems like half the NFL right now has COVID.

I have thought about airlifting into the office briefly just to walk in and get those free slices of pizza. I mean, I thought about that probably 12 to 12 to 13 times a day. No one's stopping you. No, we'll be there Friday. Greg, your enthusiasm is contagious. We get it. I think you probably think that I like being home. I don't like this at all.

This wave of it is ponderous at best. It's very best. Yeah, speaking of contagious, the Omicron variant of the COVID-19 virus. I don't even know what is what anymore. But anyway, it's highly contagious. It's ripping through the league. And just on Tuesday, we learned that Carson Wentz, who is unvaccinated, was moved to the reserve COVID list. Now, there are a couple wrinkles to this. One, as of taping, we don't know if

Wentz has COVID-19 or is a close contact. That's very important because the NFL and the NFLPA are in the process as we speak of reducing the quarantine time from 10 to 5 days, which means covering all players, not just vaccinated or vaccinated players. So even an unvaccinated player like Wentz could play Sunday if he's deemed close contact and not actually having things. the disease. However, it's just the latest for the NFL in a unending trend trend here where I believe 96 players tested positive on Monday alone, which was a record. It has turned the league upside down and the Colts as an example, a team that was surging to me seem like a Super Bowl contender and still are, whether Wentz misses a game or not, but it just shows you how

fragile everything has become and how fluid like I get people are like upset that the rules keep changing it's like what did you expect like it's kind of like the teams that are that are saying after the fact is like yeah I know we were down 18 players but that's no excuse you got yeah you've got to go win a ball game well it's it is an excuse there's an unprecedented global pandemic and you're missing the third of your roster all of this is unprecedented And I give some of that excuse latitude to how things have changed because it's not like I expect the NFL to have some greater beat on this than the larger world. This goes back to the conversation we had like March and April in some ways in terms of the testing and the way that the NFL's head handled this. It has sort of been an example of how businesses can operate.

But it's not like they're going to solve or figure out any of these rules or change. it any better than the CDC who is changing rules on the fly. So they're just, it's like they're trying to get everything done possible, but I also don't know like, I don't, I'm not like that angry at everything. You know what I mean? I know there's a lot of like, there's reasons to be upset about that this is all happening, obviously, but I'm not really sure like who that needs to be angered towards other than just life. Your God. I tend to be with you, Greg, because it's like, I would rather they remain, you know, flexible slash, you know, nimble to use like a corpo term and address it as the best they can. I mean, I think the cynical side is sort of like,

well, the NFL is going to do whatever it takes to play the games and you're going to get games like we saw on Monday night and in previous weeks. And something about that is not, I don't feel angry. I feel sort of like a dull, ominous, almost growing apathy if this is what it's going to look like the rest of the season. it is what it is. I think for me, though, it's, and again, I think inside the locker rooms, a lot of these players seem to have respect for each other, whether they were vaccinated or not. Our take, I think, on this is very clear and has been all along. Go do it for the people around you. But the unvaccinated players are tangibly costing their teams immense opportunities

and huge moments. I mean, for Carson Wentz to make the decision he made to not get vaccinated and to have this happen right now. And he's not the, you know, the lynch pinned to the entire team. But what if this happens to another unvaccinated quarterback out there that would be the case? I mean, Darius Leonard is unvaccinated. Losing him costs them. I mean, I just, I think that the decision inside an NFL team is a little different than for some of us floating around town making that decision on our own. I mean, it's huge because it connects to everyone.

The chargers are another example. Mike Williams unvaccinated, Joey Bosa, unvaccinated, that creates a bigger issue. Now, of course, people that are vaccinated and boosted are also getting sick right now. That's taking them out of the mix. But when you're unvaccinated, at least the rules currently in place, it really puts added stress on a team. And I think whether we want it this way or not, we obviously don't, but we just need to, as football fans, as people covering the sport, the teams themselves just have to adapt. And it's like, I think with the NFL right now, and you're seeing with the shifting. protocols right now. It's like the old March Madness Adage, survive in advance. They're now just

trying to get through the season without it becoming farce. And it's just, I think the frustration comes out of the fact that, man, this started in March 2020. We went underground. We had bunker cast. We saw the NBA season shut down MLB. The NFL went full speed ahead and somehow survived it. We got through it. And then this year, 2021, We had full houses and stadiums across the country. People were going on vacations again, and it felt like you were getting through it. And now things are shutting down again, and the leagues are being impacted. And I think there's just this general human situation where it's just like, oh, my God, we're going through this again.

So I think the NFL is just kind of like it's a microcosm of the greater world right now where we're just like exhausted but have no choice but to continue to try to make this work. Well, and this is such a different time now than last spring. Because, like, everyone, you know, 95% of the league is vaccinated and boosted. You know, we're required to, you know, to work at the league. So everyone is protected in a way that's so much stronger than they were before. And I think what you're seeing now is, okay, organizations like the CDC and the NFL are, like, having to adapt to, like, how are we just going to live with this? Because it's not necessarily going away. It's certainly not going away this season.

And the NFL has actually been helpful, I think, of just, like, showing what the public, what's happening at the public at large in general. If a quarter of the NFL has tested positive over the last three weeks, which is the number, which is crazy, if you think about it's crazy. A quarter. That's probably about what it is in the public, at least in the public that is, like, going to work and interacting with other people. Obviously, there's a different segment that are staying home and being very safe, not working at offices. and so for people that are out in the mix and working like okay it's probably like a quarter of that population has been infected at some point in the last three or four weeks whether whether you know it or not and uh yeah i hope like it already hasn't impacted the playoff races and stuff

like that to me it's it's just unfortunate but it's just kind of like what are you going to do about it Greg there is one thing one positive for you that came out of this okay really our friend our good buddy, Zach Kiefer, who wrote that beautiful piece on Chris Wessling for The Athletic, and I do urge you guys to check it out. They removed it from the paywall for a period last week. I don't know if it's still that case, but worth checking in. I'll link it on Twitter if you're interested. But anyway, the Athletic, Zach Kiefer reports the Colts have discussed contacting

free agent Philip Rivers after Carson Wentz was placed on the reserve COVID-19 list Tuesday. I don't know. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me, just because even if Went's misses a game. Wouldn't Sam Ellinger, the backup, be a better option, then Rivers off the street on like three days notice? I don't know. It just seems kind of silly, but also a fun

little story, especially for the people who love Rivers. It would be fun. No, I would think, depending, I don't know how good Sam Ellinger is, but we've seen some of these backups come in. I would kind of think Rivers on three days' rest. I mean, would have done a lot better than Ian Book on Monday night.

I don't know, though, because these rules, like, okay, so there's a chance that Carson went, even if he did test positive, which we don't know. We're taping at a tough time, could play on Sunday even though he's unvaccinated if he doesn't have symptoms. But it's also it comes down to the symptoms. I think one thing, you know, that we've seen with players coming back or not even when they are vaccinated, like everyone's on a different timeline. A lot of them, including like Baker, for instance, are needing to take that 10 days because they're not testing out of it. And so we don't know all the details of how they'll change these rules. But I think

I think, you know, it makes sense that they're trying to get the asymptomatic players, especially, whether you're, you know, either way, back on the field sooner than later. And it's, you know, it stinks for the teams that lost these guys a couple weeks ago when the rules were different. I mean, think about Alan Robinson, who came back saying that he lost 10 pounds. So, you know, there are heavy cases of asymptomatic scenarios, but it's not the case all around. I mean, here's the thing. Nicky said he couldn't walk up and down, you know, to do his laundry and stuff. There is a difference of, like, of these cases.

You're right. Like some players, Dion Dawkins thought it was life-threatening, you know, not too long ago. It is great for HBO if suddenly you've got Philip Rivers riding in on horseback to save the cults in week 16 or 17 or 18. I mean, that's kind of fascinating. Somehow doubt that's going to happen. I don't, I'm not as fascinated with Philip Rivers as I see a subset of individuals. there seems to be a Philip Rivers collective. I understand.

I mean, if you haven't raced to your premium cable outlet to watch Hard Knocked at this point, you're probably, I don't know if Rivers is the one that puts you over the top, but maybe. I'm sure they would welcome. People that are plugged into that show. I'm not suggesting that it's going to yank you back in or my son. You know, I might check it out sometime in the off season, although I doubt it. It's just tough in season because I've heard from people that have watched it

that this Tom Brady man in the arena thing is great. great, like, especially if you're a Patriots fan. But even from non-Patriots fans, it's really well done. It's really interesting. But it's like, that's why they did the last dance. You know, the last dance came out during COVID. That's why it was a big hit. Like, everyone wanted some football content.

Throw that thing out in May or June, and I would eat up some Tom Brady. I don't need Tom Brady right now. I'm totally with you on that. Like, and Hard Knocks, and I love Hard Knocks. Nobody loves Hard Knocks more than me. But I think maybe there was a, there was a sense that they didn't realize. how much timing plays into the appeal of the show, that it lands at the time where people are star for football. It's a perfect time for a show like that to show up. Then again, I haven't checked the

ratings. Maybe they're doing better numbers than they did. I mean, we're happy for our coworkers at NFL films. A lot of people are getting paid and working on a new production. So that's good. And, and yes. Box being checked by Greg. Nice, nicely done, Greg. And I'm all set with like 17-part Tom Brady retrospectives personally, but I'm sure there is a large audience for that. Now, speaking of large audiences, you know, back in the 80s and early 90s, there was a very large audience on Friday nights, I believe it was, but it started to move around, but you always knew you'd have Robert Stack there. It was Unsolved Mysteries on NBC, the Peacock Network, and it is time now with just two

weeks remaining in the regular season. to offer up some of our own unsolved mysteries in the NFL. Get ready for that. Spooky as hell. Spooky as fuck. But before we get to that, yes, let's wrap up. Let's put a bow.

Let's put a Christmas bow on week 16, Monday night football. Third quarter trips to the left. Now they put Lindsay back in the backfield. They're tripped it on the inside of the wall, a water touchdown. Confused everybody. What a great call. A great call. Indeed, Dolphins Radio Network.

Charles Gotzi, you know, we've had our fun on this show and other shows have as well with all the different offensive coordinators in place for the Dolphins, but they seem to be a team that had a game plan on Monday night against the Saints, and a lot of that revolved around. young Jalen Waddle, who's really developing into a star in year one. The Dolphins got enough offense and the defense did the rest with eight sacks of poor Ian Book in a 20 to three win over the Saints. The Dolphins now become the first team in NFL history to have a seven-game losing streak

and a seven-game winning streak in the same year. And that could only happen in 2021. That I am, there is absolutely something in the, in the water of the season. So there you go. The Dolphins 8 and 7, currently in possession of that second playoff spot. And if they win their last two games, Greg, they are going to the dance and we would become one of the most unlikely playoff teams, really ever. And I think they could do it.

They would have to beat the Titans, you know, this week. The pass rush against that Titans offensive line. We'll talk about that later in the week. But this game was just, like, one to get out of the way. They could have played it 10 times. I don't think Ian Book and the Saints are going to score more than 10 points in any of them. This Dolphins pass rush is awesome, but it's exactly what you would expect from a fourth string quarterback, who was a third-day draft pick, rookie, playing behind at the beginning of the game, the sixth and seventh string tackles of the Saints. And then during the game, there was an injury.

so it became the seventh and eighth string tackles of the Saints. They were also missing a ton of defensive players, of course. A lot of these were injuries, not just COVID, but they were hammered by COVID. And this Dolphins' good luck that they've had in terms of their opponents definitely carried over into Monday night because I think you looked at what the Dolphins' offense did, putting up only 13 points in that game.

And you think, well, if they had Tase them, they would have had a chance, or Trevor Simeon, maybe they would have had a chance in some of them. there were other players, but the ball's bouncing the Dolphins way this year. Yeah, I mean, it's, I really felt for the Saints because they had, you know, more than 25% of their active roster were call-up. Sean Payton talked about the fact that they were fitting players for equipment, you know, the day of the game, they had never been in Saints uniform before on any level.

And, you know, I mean, I still, that defense. One guy hadn't played football in four years. Right. I mean, it's just, it's, we're in like, you know, for those of a certain age, You remember back to the 1987, like, strike where they had the so-called scabs come in for three weeks. And it was guys that a week earlier were, you know, working in, like, factories making, like, Sean Page was one of them. Remember Sean Page? Absolutely. He was a Bears quarterback, yeah.

But I just, I look at, you know, like, last night, Marcus Davenport, for instance, Cam Jordan, like, Marshawn Latimore gave him a chance with that interception. And the offense just could, you know, two weeks in a row with Tase him against the Bucks, this offense just cannot deliver. And last night you knew that you knew they wouldn't deliver it. They were doomed. And Ian Book, like I walk away with like, yeah, I didn't look good, but I'll wait another day to discern what sort of player he is. It was in a terrible situation. Honestly, like if anyone deserves a make good from the football gods down the line, it's

Ian Book. I hope he gets a better opportunity. And this isn't like how we remember him because, frankly, this is another example of how unfair and how difficult it is to be trying to play this season during. a pandemic that's exploding. There's no reason that kid should have been on the field. It was the detriment to him personally and the team, and they had no other choice. They should have called up Phillip Rivers. You could have called up Phil Rivers, but James Winston and I are Tayson-Hill COVID, Trevor

Simeon COVID. So you run out this poor kid who gets obliterated by this hard-charging Dolphins defense that smelled blood in the water. And with the saints, to me, they're the Ravens of the AFC, a once promising team that simply is endured too much, that the walls have eventually caved in here because nobody, I don't care who your coach is, there's no way you could sustain this.

So that's just a tough break. And I know their playoff hopes are still somewhat intact, although it's becoming more and more longshed. They got Panthers Falcons. So those are two winnable games for them if they get a lot of these players back, which they probably should, including their quarterback.

It's the tackles that's hurt them, but they set an NFL record last night for the most starters used it in a season. And it's not like we needed that extra week. That is crazy. That's the larger point. That's to your Ravens point, I think. And it's like, yeah, maybe you could look ahead and say they'll get healthy.

Well, the way things have gone, it could get worse from here. You know, and I would say it's more likely that's where it goes because it's just one of those star cross seasons. And back to the dolphins. All right, let's see it. Let's see it now because I'm not alone on this. I still, I'm not buying in. I have a, like 12 on the power rankings just because when you win seven in a row,

you got to keep moving up as the weeks go along. But this has been an absurdly easy schedule. It's been a historically easy schedule. The Ian Book thing was crazy that that fell into their lap and what should have been a must-win game for the Saints at home and primetime and it all kind of got washed away. So the dolphins take care of business again, but now Titans, now Patriots.

And if you really are a team that I should be taking seriously, win both these games complete this unlikely journey. Otherwise, thanks for the memories. And we move on with the real relevant teams. If they beat the Titans with A.J. Brown back and they show that they can answer on offense to some degree. That would help me a lot. I'm with you to some degree, Dan, in terms of like what I think about Miami. But I mean, to go do what they've done on defense, they are a legitimate team you do not want to deal with.

I think they have, this is what they did a year ago. They diagnosed quarterbacks and make life. Hell, and I'm not just talking about Ian Book, and it has been a soft schedule. But, I mean, there's a reason we've never seen a team do this, to this extent. A lot of it is scheduled, but the Titans' offensive line is not much better. I mean, they can go win this game. The problem, and I think it showed up last night, is the Dolphins' offensive line's even worse.

They are dead last in pass-blocking grades, according to PFF. They are dead last in pass-block win rate, according to ESPN. When you get all the analytics sides who are kind of clashing to agree on something, that means you're the worst. And Tua has actually helped out this offensive line. This sometimes unwatchable offense where he has to get rid of the ball in 2.2 seconds because that's what he does well. It's like that's the only thing that would work with this offensive line. He has to play that way. But the last two weeks and Dolphins fans, I know you agree, even though he made a couple nice throws last night.

He's played two of his worst games of the season in a row back to back. coming off to buy he has made about three or four turnover worthy plays in each of these games and the style of offense they play you got to thread that needle it's like a small margin for error he needs to be a caretaker he needs to be like the alec smith on the chiefs type of guy if he's given chances to the other teams like he did three or four times last night like they're going to lose that game in tennessee or they're going to lose in new england and unfortunately they probably got to win them both to get into the playoffs hey listen locked up the dolphins Big win.

I got a two-game lead with two to play. That's why Mark was like, you know, sending us, like, vicious tweets, text last night. You're much happier now. I never had any issue with you locking them up necessarily. I'm post-giving an F about any of that at this stake. And I just give me a break. I don't believe that. When Vegas, I think the thing with the lock competition is, is like, check out the spreads.

Look for some things that stand out as inconsistencies. And I thought that the Saints only got in three was bizarre with that defense. And Ian Brooks' level of inexperience and it played out exactly like that. So that was easy money. I think probably made a lot of money on because I think they agreed with you. It was like the, you're right. It's like, I don't think Vegas knows what's to do with this COVID stuff. Because it's like, yeah, in theory, I get it.

Like the underlying numbers of the Saints are pretty great. But it's like, though that wasn't the Saints. You got to just adjust it. People coming after me on Twitter, like, look at the mirror. Listen, dude, I'm not looking to win medal of valor's here. I'm just, I'm looking to win games. And, you know, it's a three. Let me ask you a question.

Let's say I locked them up in you, on an island game in this situation. Would you be as charitable towards me? I would have been like, I'm joining you on that because this is easy money. Well, let's say you literally what I did. Let's say that you went down a different avenue and then I, like, won this lock. Would there be any, would there not be. a word or two of like, well, Mark, that was very questionable, but if that's what you needed to do. You make a little joke. My official comment is that's neither here nor there, Mark.

Well, that is, of course, that's what you're going to say. But I mean, I think everyone listening understands how that would have been handled. Mark, one of my joys, things that I like about this podcast, and there's so many things, it's been one of the great things that I've ever had in my life is riling up the quiet storm. It sometimes, it gives me a little, you know, little juice. Well, I'm too down now because of a disastrous two weeks where I went against the cults. I have learned major lessons. I'm not touching that team again all year. They poisoned me.

Locking up the team that's one nine of ten did not pay off. What about Sam Ellinger, though? Maybe you want to lock up against them again, but the Raiders, they kind of stay. I don't know, we'll get to all that on Thursday. Let's take a break, and then we're going to try to solve some mysteries. what's up everybody Daniel Jeremiah here and I'm Bucky Brooks

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This program is about unsolved mysteries. Whenever possible, the actual family members and police officials have participated in recreating the events. What you're about to see is not a news broadcast. Yes, welcome back to the broadcast and, or the podcast, I should say. And it is time. The NFL regular season, a strange, a season as you can ever recall, has two weeks remaining in the regular season.

And Mark, the biggest season ever. Football is family. Football is now your family. They can throw any slogan they want. at what we're witnessing. Five days of no football. After eight primetime games and ten days, we have five days of no football, Mark.

Well, eight out of ten days was a bit heavy. I mean, it was a little bit. It's like I would like to eat those pizza slices I mentioned. I wouldn't want it to be the only thing I eat nonstop every meal all day long. I totally get it. I get it, the commissary. It's all on the arm, as Keith Hansis would say. We're not paying for it.

You know, it's the only thing better than pizza? Free pizza. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Anyway, it's been a mysterious, spooky NFL season. And now we're going to try to, well, what we're going to do here is kind of open up,

open the kimono of mystery here, and lay out some things that are completely impossible to decipher to the average person, perhaps to us. And then we'll try to use logic to crack the mystery. Now, as you know, Mark, is a child of a very important. the 80s. Sometimes you get that update. And when you get the update, an unsolved an update. And then they tell you, this man did see an alien. Actually, it turns out he was

clinically insane and they put him in an asylum. Like, it's good to get the update. We can't hit you with an update right now. But here's the good thing about football. All these unsolved mysteries will get the update by February. That we can promise you. Or a little after. Let's get into it. Mark, you are a conspiracy theorist. This program is right up your alley, the segment's up your alley. So get us going with the first unsolved mystery. All right, I will title this Project Poison Beak. And here's what I'm unfurling to you. Have the Cardinals been subject to a hush-hush government op aimed at gathering data on what happens when an entire football team and its coaching staff, unbeknownst to them, ingest

pure-strain silo cylocybin via the team cafeteria soft-serve ice cream machine. One big issue is that Kyler Murray is obsessed with that vanilla chocolate strawberry Neapolitan swirl option and has spent the past 21 days in a trenchant haze. This is another way of asking, are these birds cooked? Have they migrated into a nether world? Can Kyler win big games under the lights? Is Cliff Gingsbury built for the long haul, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? You know, everybody drank, by the way, psilocybin reference by Mark Sessler.

They did do, the government did do LSD experiments for years and years. Right, I'd like to drink some psilocybin, you know, a little New Year's Eve or something. Been too long. You're back in New Orleans. So the unsolved mystery is, are the Cardinals cooked? Have they peaked? It's a great one because the way I look at the Cardinals right now is, yes, they feel. fit every profile as one of those teams.

They started 7 and 0. They're 5 and 8 since. They've lost their best playmaker on the outside. They seem to have lost that confidence and that mojo that made them so special to start the year. They could be kind of heading towards that 10 and 7 finish and then a wipeout in the first round and then a ton of questions. However, Kyler Murray is special.

So that's, to me, like, boring down a little more. The unsolved mystery is, How special is Kyler Murray? I think the next few weeks are a critical test because the true franchise star can put a team on its back and take them out of a valley and get them back to the peak. If he doesn't, a year after they faded in 2020, and I understand he was injured that year,

I think questions will start to build not just around Cliff Kingsbury, but Kyler Murray as well. I'm not worried about Kyler. You know, I am a little worried about this coaching staff in Cliff Kingsbury. Certainly they'll look better when they get Rondeau. more James Connor back. Maybe they will for this Dallas game this week. But the tweet going around on Tuesday that really caught my eye about Cliff Kingsbury's record in the first seven games

of his season compared to after that is remarkable. This goes back to Texas Tech. He's 42 and 20 in the first seven games and 16 and 43 after that. If you just want to do the Cardinals, they're 15, 5, and 1 in the first seven games, and 8 in 8. 8 and 18 after that. So maybe it's just weird numbers sticking against the wall, but whatever the idea that is around that the first couple months of the season are one thing and then teams start adjusting to what you've done

and it's on you to adjust to that, it's like they're not doing any adjusting. They're playing their worse when it matters the most. There are a lot of examples of teams, including the Super Bowl Cardinals, including the 2018 Patriots, including the Ravens when they won the Super Bowl, who stunk in December and turned it back on.

This team has the juice and the players to be that sort of team. I don't know if they have the coaching staff, though. Most of those numbers that you mentioned for Arizona's fast start, I mean, obviously come this year because they were 5 and 10 and 1 under his first season. Now, last year, I would attribute that to the Kyla Murray injury.

But in all seven, they were worse in their last, after the first seven. Like, that's been consistent. Every single season, there is something crazy about that. It's crazy. I mean, I think part of it is his system. Like, people were still learning to some degree. But they were fast starters.

I think I'm with Dan. I just feel like a classic team that peaked. I mean, they looked unstoppable a month ago. If they were to get wiped out by Dallas, I mean, the end of this season is about as ugly as one could author. All right. Let us move on. Up next.

a question that I know you've thought about Mark Sessler is Baker Mayfield playing his final games with the Cleveland Browns is he playing for his future with back-to-back games against the Pittsburgh Steelers

and Cincinnati Bengals and how how crazy is it that we're even having this conversation, considering where things were in September? I will cite a report from the Akron Beacon Journal, Marla Ridnor, who said the Browns are likely to bring in competition for Baker Mayfield in 2022. She also wrote in the article that the four interception performance against the Packers on Christmas provided Brown's brass with, quote, even more minuses on their ledgers when deciding whether to offer Mayfield an extension. with his contract expiring after 2022. Mark, do you believe that these next two weeks mean everything for your quarterback? I don't know if he can really dig himself out of the hole unless he were to have two spectacular showings.

They made the playoffs and they got back to where they were a year ago and maybe won a playoff game. And then you can look back at all this and say, you know, the shoulder, COVID, other things around him, you know, fell apart. I think more likely, the last. game is tough because you don't have to extend them. I think he's here next year and I do think that Stefansky has a lot of faith in him. I mean, if he melts totally over the next two weeks, I think they are a candidate because you already've heard them linked to like the Deshaun Watson situation. They're a candidate to explore. I don't think competition for Baker Mayfield, but a big name replacement. I don't know what competition means because if you have the number

one draft pick and like you're bringing in Case Keenham is competition around what you could get. And so it's like, what does that mean? I think you go get the Russell Wilson. You go after someone like Deshawn Watson, or you stick with him for one more year and have a real look at who he is. Now, I think the problem is, I think they and we kind of know what he is right now,

and that's the depressing part. I don't think this is what I thought of him at all, even six, seven weeks ago. They are already showing with reports like that that this could be coming. I'm glad you threw this mystery out. It is fascinating because it reminds me something that happened a couple weeks ago that really caught my eye. And it was a couple of reports in the Cleveland papers questioning Kevin Stefansky's play calling

and whether Baker Mayfield was put in the best position in terms of what Stefanski was calling, late game situations, very, very pro-Baker piece with some sources. As in that Stafansky is putting him in a bad position intentionally. Right, that he's doing a bad, basically that they're, they've done a bad job, play calling. I forget which local paper, I forget which paper it was. And that's a conspiracy theory. Didn't get a lot of buzz, but it got me thinking like, well, the Browns read that piece and they might have their guesses of where that's coming from, someone trying to protect Baker

after one of his worst games of the year. And I started to think like, ooh, this is ugly. Like this is, we're already getting into like the he said, she said stuff of like who's that fault there. And I don't think Baker would survive that because Baker has a little, has trade value. That's the thing. Like in these deals where Deshawn Watson or Russell Wilson or something, it's like Baker's a nice piece to have, doesn't mean he's going to change your franchise, but he has trade value. That was the point I was about to make, which is they picked up the final year of his rookie deal. The extension is probably not happening at this point.

So he becomes a tradable asset. It was very similar to the Sam Darnold situation where the Panthers made the decision then to pick up his option. But the same draft class. My point being that he doesn't have a big financial commitment. Maybe you take him on and he upgrades your quarterback position. You get a look at him at not a very high cost. Case Keenham is under contract for one more year.

He knows who he is. He's a backup. Baker Mayfield is not the type of guy. I don't think that would be cool with sticking around. in Cleveland if they went and brought in someone that became the logical starter. So maybe a fresh break for both sides would be in order. But I think, again, to me, I think the story is yet to be written, even if it seems like the writings on the wall, I think if he balls out here and they end up stealing the AFC North, I think it could change everything. And then all that stuff that you were

saying, Mark, about how beat up he's been and he has been, the idea of, okay, look at how he finished this year, look at his body of work last year and he's had moments throughout his career and maybe they talk himself into it. But I think if he continues to play at a substandard level, I think they're going to act. But we'll see. Here's one thing I see on the horizon, though. Let's say they beat Pittsburgh and he plays fine. Okay, it's going to be ugly when he is massively outduled by Joe Burrow and the in-state Cincinnati Bengals in the final game of the season. That's how this thing ends. They're not winning both those teams. It doesn't, it sounds like confidence really has been shaken quite entirely i have no confidence in this team i think it's

but not the team i'm talking about baker in the whole him in the whole thing i think that to gregg's point where these reports it's so it's so countered or a year ago there's something very dark about these reports and uh you know we i think brown's fans thought you would escape this and you have not i think the brown's front office though is like a decisive group i in because of that uh i think they would get rid of. I do want to clarify just what the report was. It was when Baker talked to Kurt Warner and he mentioned having to overcome a lot of internal things. And then there was a Mary Kay Cabot report of a growing disconnect between Stefansky and Mayfield about play calling. And whether they've talked about it or not, Mary Kay said that there's been a disconnect about the style

of play calling. Interesting. Okay, Greg, you're up next, an unsolved mystery. And by the way, Greg, I'm just curious. I think I've asked you this question before. but you were born, age 32, standing up. Have you ever seen Unsolved Mysteries? No, I never watched it. Okay. Okay. Not a judgment thing, but maybe a little bit.

I mean, I've seen it many times because I was, you know, flipping through the channels or even I was young enough to be like turning the dial, I believe, you know, but I never stuck on it. All right, cool. All right. What's your unsolved mystery, Greg Rosenthal? Well, let's stay in the quarterback realm since these are connected. And my unsolved mysteries is what's Russell Wilson's trade value when he gets put on the market?

Because I think he's getting put on the market by his own people. Whether the Seahawks want to trade him or not, I think the Russell Wilson camp is going to be running this show. Pete Carroll says he's been having great conversations with Jody Allen, their owner, that he doesn't want to change philosophies at all, that he has a very tight relationship. and I just am curious if the last 20 games of Russell Wilson's play impacts what his trade value is whatsoever because he hasn't played that well. Fair question.

I think my feeling is that a team would be willing to gamble the house on the idea that he's still just 33 and maybe things just got a little stale in Seattle and if you give him the right supporting cast, fresh coaching, he becomes that superstar guy for another five to eight years. I think there's a team out there and probably multiple teams that will give up everything

to get him. And I mean give up everything like what we're hearing for the Sean Watson, like three first round picks or two first round picks and a second, something like that. I think he still has that value. But I think it's a fair point because his body of work is underwhelming, quite frankly, over the past two seasons. I don't think I see what you're coming from because it's not been the same Russell Wilson and this season especially we've become used to seeing subpar play from him which is

quizzical compared to everything else but I mean I think of the last 20 games of Matthew Stafford before he came to Los Angeles where it's like you're going to have teams and coaches that just look at Russell Wilson and say clean slate I don't care what happened with Seattle as the organization was slightly crumbling around him and him as well I think his value will be supreme. Russell Wilson, your entire team and organization changes spiritually, physically for the next five, six, seven years, and you sell tickets, you've got an immediate identity. I think it's just too attractive from ownership to coaches who think they can fix everything

to the locker room. I mean, it would absolutely alter the way that we view whatever team went and got. Let me connect the dots here, because it's right there for us. Baker and two number ones and a three for Russell. Russell Wilson. You're Andrew Barry, Mark Sessler. Well, I think, number one, the Browns are going to be very bold if they want to make this decision, the same way that we saw with the Rams. I would make that move, but here's the thing. I don't think Russell Wilson would ever go to Cleveland because of who he's married to,

because of a wide variety of things. I just think that's a long shot. I think that if the Jets wanted to turn that into some sort of scenario, I think they'd have a better chance, the Giants especially the giants have already been named as an obvious candidate right and think about all the other i i agree with you guys that ultimately he'll go for a ton i to me i i feel a little buyer beware because it was the second half of last season was ugly that's a pretty long stretch here where you wonder if he's going to age as gracefully as some of these other quarterback you you know reminds me a little bit bit of ben i mean you still would buy in but i'd be buyer beware but it's ultimately a seller's market think of the teams that are going to

going to be desperate for a Russell Wilson type player. Broncos, Saints, Texans, Browns, WFT, Carolina, Jets. It only takes one or two to make like that market incredibly high in someone to convent. Greg, let's say you were a general manager and a report came out that Greg Rosenthal, the general manager decided not to pull, you know, not to pull the switch on a Russell Wilson trade because he was concerned about Russell Wilson's last 20 games. You would be fried on that city sports radio to no end i hear what you're saying but i don't think that's how anyone else is going to think about i just don't like i think some teams will but not not all i i think it's a concern greg you still kind of like the patriots uh how about mac jones a first and a third a first

and a second i'd rather have mac jones than russell wilson for sure period i'm not i'm not too high on macdon i mean russell wilson right now to me i don't want to be given up first round, a ton of first round picks for Russell Wilson right now. I already have a first round pick, you know, in that scenario. It's Mac Jones. Wait, did I hear that right? Did you just say wait, why did the, I just saw the Vikings signed a

quarterback. Kirk is not vaccinated. Interesting. I'll be tracking that. Did you just say you wouldn't trade Mac Jones for Russell Wilson for Mac Jones? Yeah. I mean, I would say that about 15 guys in the league right now. And especially guys What about Justin Fields, where Chicago was a target?

Wait a second. I don't understand how Mac Jones, I mean, Mac Jones to me would be moved in a second for Russell Wilson, but you were very low on him. I don't know, like Russell Wilson's good. Like he's definitely a mid-level starting quarterback at this point, but that's all he's been for a year and a half now. And I'd rather have like a rookie with a little. higher ceiling that's that that young hey hey rickie where do you are you am i crazy um i mean and i'm

not that high on mac jones i think mac jones is going to be like you know the tenth best quarterback in the league but i kind of rather that on a rookie contract and giving giving like yeah kind of with you like who's had a better year this year mac jones or russell wilson it's it is environment though greg like there is an environment towards russell wilson's an apple's an Seattle. Russell Wilson has like Tyler Lockett. He's got D.K. Matt Kaff and like they,

he's solid. I'm not, I'm not saying he couldn't have like a great second, you know, career elsewhere. It definitely could happen. But it also might not. Like,

he might just be fine somewhere else. I have a sneaking suspicion. This take is going to age very poorly, Greg. But hey, you might be right. No, he's going to be dancing on TikTok with Sierra

in the next couple of years for, for an income. Oh, he is such a future dancing with a stars guy. Maybe he's already done it. I don't know. All right, let's take a break and we'll go one more time around with some unsolved mysteries. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day.

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app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies.

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All right, I'm looking at my list here. Will men's fashion ever improve? Not that one. Let's go here. Mystery. What's wrong with men's fashion? Oh, I think it's absurd. Go ahead.

We've got some work to do on that front. Does Lamar Jackson have a great game left in him in this season? And does it even matter? I'm trying to remember the great game he's had this year, first of all. I mean, it happened a long time ago. It was like week five or so, week seven. The Minnesota second half, that was probably week seven. I mean, that's a long time ago.

I'm going to say it matters for sure because I think they'd be dangerous if they could somehow win these games and they are playing the Rams so it matters for them too I want to believe it so I'm going to say yes their offense hasn't been the problem

since Lamar left like their offense was fine against Cincinnati if he can get back in there it's good weapons I'm not ready to totally give up on them yet because of that one week. This is a big this is a big

couple weeks here for the Lamar heads out there. The Lamar army is strong. There has always been a fierce level of defense for Jackson whenever the team struggles it's very rarely

put on his shoulders. And yet I think we've reached a stage now where even the Lamar army needs to hang some of the Ravens downfall on the quarterback if they if they continue this path and I understand again this is a strange season and they've been absolutely gutted by injuries but wouldn't you doesn't it is it asking too much for Lamar if he gets back from this ankle injury to put together two great games to close

the season and be the superstar that they need him to be and perhaps carry them to the AFC North title um I don't think so if he's as good as everyone says and he's got an MVP trophy he's like Kyler Murray, like, like Baker Mayfield, like these guys, but Baker's obviously in a different category. What I mean is these guys that are the linchpins of the franchise, you need them to do what Josh Allen did on Sunday in Foxborough and put a team on your back. Can he do it? It's a big test. I see why a lot of stuff slips off Jackson's back in terms of critique because he'll make the same mistakes that a Baker or someone else will make, but Baker doesn't have that special component to his game that even if we haven't seen a lot of that from Lamar Jackson with

the way they've been defended, you know it's there, you know he can do it. And so I think Greg's optimism, you're kind of just rooting for it to happen. That's where I think Jackson supporters and loyalists are kind of stuck right now because it's not inevitable, where it felt inevitable with him a year ago or two. Well, it felt inevitable eight weeks ago. He was on a lot of midseason MVP rankings as maybe the favorite. So he's had a bizarre season where he played as well or better than he's ever played in a different style and then it was a disaster he played so poorly after that and then got hurt

so it's been a very like a very strange season the thing is he could play really well and their defense is 29th in DVOA so he's gonna need he's gonna need them to play better like Josh Johnson played great last week Josh Johnson's not only been better than all these emergency quarterbacks that have been called upon, but better than most backup quarterbacks. Like, he

scored touchdowns in three of his seven drives before it was like garbage time. And like and that defense has totally falling apart. They do get some COVID guys back. I mean, are you going to win a shootout with the Rams? That's what's going to have to happen. Well, yeah, it's tough sledding. Why not? I'm not saying it's impossible. It just doesn't... It's not

inevitable. I didn't think he was going to miss a week and he's missed three. They clearly okey-doked us here. But I think that it's unfair to say that it's on Lamar to get the Ravens to the Super Bowl. I think too much has happened to Baltimore to see them as a credible Super Bowl contender. I guess all I'm really saying is from an individual standpoint, do something special these last two weeks.

I don't know. The ankle thing is a real thing. So it might be like what we're seeing with Kyle, not Kyle Murray, with Jalen Hertz, the last couple of weeks. He came back from an ankle injury and hasn't run the football. Like, does Lamar lose that element of his game even when he returns? This might just be a broken Baltimore season. but I would like to see Lamar finish on a high note

because, yeah, even this year he was playing at that elite level and that all just kind of slipped away in the second half. All right. I'm going to move away from quarterback talk. I did have another. I had a couple quarterback ones, but we've done a lot of quarterback ones. So let me just, let's head to the broadcast booth.

I think even the greatest, the biggest of the Romo heads out there. And I think, Greg, you are right up the top of that list. We'll say that Tony's maybe taking a step back since he signed the big contract. Maybe not as invested. Maybe not doing the work at the same level. Still a nice, a really good presence. You feel like you're watching a big game when Tony's there with Nance.

But maybe he's not that he's not like hitting home runs every Sunday like he used to. Is this the playoffs where Romo going through the motions gets surpassed by the people that track these things? By Greg Olson with Kevin Burckhardt, the new darling of social media every Sunday. The football cognizante gets all fired up about Greg Olson. Is that going to be a story that Andrew Marchand of the New York Post will be writing about? come late January. Don't we think that it's happened a little bit to some degree? I mean, not officially, but the Olson love is the outpouring is...

Well, he's the new cover of Teen Beat, like for football, the Twitterverse. Like, everybody loves Olson. Well, you got these two Island Saturday primetime games, which I found, you know, instructive. Not only because everyone realized how great Greg Olson is, but I believe Troy Aikman's in a contract situation right now. You think they put that little Olson on the Saturday nights, big audiences? Hey, you better come to the bargaining table, Troy, or else we'll see you at Amazon. I have no idea what's happening.

I think with Romo, one thing, you're another year removed from having been inside team walls, inside a team, and you have to start to attack a little bit differently. Maybe it's just, I thought the game he was on, the Chief Steelers game, was a tough draw because it was over within like 12 minutes and you're going to like B and C material but that was by far I thought his least impressive outing as a well because I don't think he has a lot of least impressive ones but I mean if you go listen to that he just seemed a little detached to me and out of it I'm not trying to critique him because I think he's awesome he's clearly really really good that was that was a game pass game for me so I didn't I didn't get

the Romo experience but I am with you Mark I've seen games this year that weren't they've had some dogs in general, and more than any announcer, he seems to totally lose investment if the game is not close. Like that would be me. He is like a child where like he's so into it if it's close. But what it's not, it's like he seems to lose interest. Can't you imagine Jim Nance during a commercial break when Romo's interest in a game is waning, just pulling the stern dad routine. And he's like, okay, Tony, let's go. Tony, let's go. I feel like we have the pants in that relationship. You can watch them and hear them talking to each other. And they seem to genuinely like genuinely love each other.

I mean, they really love each other, I think. But I think I feel like Nance is still trying to impress Romo and be like the cool kid. Like he makes a little sarcastic jokes that Romo makes. So I don't know if he's coming too tough on it. Last time we had a Marchand on the show, he had like a dicey internet connection, which was disappointing. But now he's got his own podcast he does, a media podcast. So you know he's got the Yeti. And you know he's got the rock.

solid plugged-in internet set-up. So, Ricky, we want to put that, put a pin in this, and we're going to want to have some good old-fashioned NFL media play-by-play booth talk when things quiet down in the NFL season. Absolutely. Little notes, little notes. They should get a wild card game and a divisional round. I don't know if they get a division.

Marchand. But they should at least get a wild card game. Shout out to Andrew Marchand's brother, regular listener to the show. A Marchand Family Affair. All right, I'm rambling now. I'm Tony, I'm Tony Romo in the second quarter of a Steelers game in December. One more, Greg Rosenthal. He was so disappointed.

My final unsolved mystery. A show he's never seen. It's what's going on in Jacksonville. Ooh. Authorities have reported that despite being a big part of an organization that is won three games combined over the last two years.

That's one less than Joe Judge won this year. Ouch! Trent Balke was given the keys to the kingdom. Trent Balke who seems to

be great at one thing managing up. Playing of politics surviving changes why is trend balki running a coaching search in the year 2021 that is my unsolved mystery that that's a great one and and tying together the theme of the show and another prime time program from the late 80s early 90s um i rather have balky bartakamas from uh perfect strangers running my team than trent balky because yeah what is he done i'm with you but i don't know if the Russian

Belke would be super plugged into the task. Right. I don't know, you know, like just for some background, Trent Balke, was a 49ers guy back in the day, kind of pushed out a few 49ers coaches too and always managed to survive that. Was him and Jim Harbaugh eventually were at odds survived that.

And here in Jacksonville where he was a key figure in convincing Urban Meyer to promote him and supposedly was integral in the hiring of this offensive line coach, by the way, that Urban Meyer eventually took all the flak for, has convinced owner Shad Khan that he is the man to run this team and he has more power than ever. And the more we learn about Urban Meyer, it almost feels like Urban Meyer was so out to lunch that much of this

team was run by Trent Balke the whole time. And I hate the setup where coaches are inheriting the GM or the GM is inheriting the coach. It's a big pet peeve of mine. I feel like that's the number one ownership test. If you fail that test, yeah, you're bad. I know there's exceptions. Siciliano brought it up the less need Sean McBay one. I don't need to hear the exceptions. There's a million other times. They need to be a line. You need to hire them together. I don't, I don't like this setup. And I don't like it when everyone around that team doesn't like it either. Well, you're looking at you're looking at two people that have followed teams that have done that for a thousand years. I also think that, you know,

if you're Trent Balky, are there certain candidates out there who feel a certain way about him saying, I don't want that job because I want this other job. If you're up for a couple, for instance, like the Jacksonville has attractive. Trevor Lawrence makes it attractive in theory, but you don't like the GM. You don't go there. And the ownership situation, I think Shod Khan's been a really good owner in terms of being a consistent, good businessman. But he's at the point now where he shouldn't be falling for this dog and pony show.

He keeps making these bad decisions. He keeps making these bad decisions. See, if you had Balke-Bartacomis, making the decision. He'd say, oh, should you mismatch coach and GM? He'd go, well, of course not, Larry. Don't be ridiculous. Get out of the city. He'd have to have, like, a nice laugh track attached to, like, whenever he does a press conference. I watched, I watched some perfect strangers back in the day. I even can remember that guy's name, Bronson Pinchot. I believe. Very good. What was the fictional, uh, fictional area that he was from, Mark Sessler? Uh, Rosa Slavia. Mipos. The Jaguars, by the way, I've asked permission to interview Byron Lefich, Todd Bowles, Dan Quinn, Doug Peterson, Kellynne Moore, and Colts defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus. So just a little bit of news.

If they hired Doug Peterson, do they get Frank Reich also? They get that statue of... It's such an important hire. They have this generational quarterback who has been put through hell. You can't mess it up. then, God, do you trust them? I mean, I like that list. I think that they're going, I think that they're heading towards, like, a Jim Caldwell higher

because it's like, you know, you had a super chaotic, significant other girlfriend, boyfriend, and your next person is someone that is different. And, like, they're going to go super boring because they had a high drama, high problematic coach that nearly drug the organization into the sea. Right. One of the reasons I hate this setup, and I know we'll end the tune, is GMs like Balki, to me are going to one of their primary concerns is hiring a coach that he's going to have power over and control over and that's like not what you want to be the priority in hiring your coach

that's true that's fair all right that ends another episode of unsolved mysteries on the around the NFL podcast you will hear from us next on Thursday we have no Thursday night football so we have a full slate of games we have Saturday games this week as I understand or at least one game no no Oh, it's all Sunday. I think it was because of the bowl season, the college football playoffs. They took this Saturday off. We are running free. We're all right until Sunday, baby.

Is there a Monday night game? Yes. There is a Monday night game. Cleveland, Pittsburgh. Oh, right. That's the last Monday night game. Shoot me by the bow and arrow in the head, please. A full Sunday slate.

We're going to really need our buddy, Nick Shook, for the flagship show. And he will be there for us. All right. Thank you to everybody for listening. will we hear when's new year's eve that's Friday okay so it won't be 2022 by the time you hear from us next so forget that I was going to say happy new year but it's not time so you don't get it yet early happy new year yeah all right that's it Dan Hans is signing off for Quiet Storm the old boss Ricky Hollywood until Thursday heed the call

You know, So, Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple

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