NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Saturday Sickos: All-Underrated Offense

Episode Date: December 6, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal and Ollie Connolly give you their All-Underrated Offensive Team starting with the running back position followed by wide receiver (16:00), tight end (20:10), quarterback (27:35) and offensive line (37:30). The show is wrapped up with the Week 14 Sicko Spotlight talking about what the Cardinals defense can do to disrupt the Rams offense (50:20). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And we've got some sickos. Welcome to NFL Daily where, yes, it is the Saturday Sicko Show, episode two. Thank you to Josh Allen for introducing us each and every Saturday. It's me, and it's Ali Connolly over in Manchester, England. He has been grinding the tape, and we got a fun show, Ali. We are doing an all underrated team only on the offense today because we decided we would go too long to try to stick in an entire team. Yeah, even just defense my eyes naturally of my background go to the defensive side of the ball.

We would probably spend two hours just on linebackers. And I know I'm so happy if the sickos can all join us, all the people doing the Saturday commutes, trudging into work, saying we need daily on the weekends. Sickos can unite. Here we are. I love it. So wait, did you scout defense more when it was your job, or that's just naturally what you like? Yes, six years exclusively as a linebacker scout, just linebackers. And then, yeah, you filter everything through what the linebacker does, kind of feeds into everything else and how people attack them is kind of how I view the offensive side of the game. So yes, more defense than offense. That,

really outlined some of your analysis over the years. You've been good on, like, Edger and Cooper, and you do just, the light goes on in your eyes when you're talking linebackers. We'll get to the defense. I think we'll do that next week, because I love this exercise. We'll go through the offensive positions. Ollie's going to carry me on the offensive line. I don't want to start with quarterback because that was the toughest one for me,

and I don't just want to start where I struggled. So why don't we start with the running back position, and I will let you go first. Like, we can give extra people their flowers. So if, you know, if you want to mention the honorable mentions that you consider, that's totally fine. But start off with who is your all underrated running back? This is difficult because it's difficult to know where to place the what is the rated part. Where does someone fall in the underrated versus overrated?

Because I feel so Devon E. Chan's season is kind of being underrated and start this career is underrated almost historically. And the play style is different. The guy I just keep returning to as being like, I think this guy. really, really has the goods is Kyle Monongay, and it's tough to throw a rookie onto an all underrated team, but I feel like we're overlooking ever so slightly how impressive he's been as a fifth round pick stepping into that offense. That is great, and I would like to go back to A Chan for a little. So Monagai runs with a ton of juice. What else do you see just, you know, from like learning the position perspective that that's impressed you as a rookie? The aggressiveness is a

thing that just pops of like, whoa, this guy attacks the line, like very few people. And when you see D'Andre Swift, who is way more hesitant, he's got more top-end speed, he's more of the home run hitter. Menong guy just comes down with violence, like very few guys you see Walk to League and just like pop people on first contact. As a rookie, you don't see that all that often. And it's really the past pro. So if you get the real downside with D'Andre Swift, so much of their more complicated

protections, particularly in the play action game, the way they build it is like there's one standalone bag. He has a full scan read at the field. so it's a difficult assignment because you've got to read the entire thing and be kind of the plus one ad into protection but you also get a full like panoramic view of what's happening in front of you

and you go through the DeAndre Swift snaps since like well this thing is a roller coaster he's in the wrong spot all the time and then Calmanonga rolls on the field he's in the right spot every single time and he makes a bunch of mistakes there and he whiffs but to just be in the correct place as a rookie walk into league

is like a really difficult step for a lot of these guys to get to so I am really really bullish on what his future looks like So you think they have found their version of David Montgomery, for lack of a better comp, they've kind of found the thunder that's going to be there. And you think, like, what is the ceiling for this guy in this Ben Johnson offense over the next few years? Probably being, like, the frustrating, fancy guy,

because the exciting player isn't on the field as much as you want, and he vultures all the touchdowns in the red zone. It's what I imagine is he's going to be whilst Ben Johnson is like, I'm never letting this guy leave the building. He's just there for, like, eight years of running contract after conference. contract is what i see him looking like yeah and he you're lucky if if david montgomery is uh the ceiling that's a pretty good ceiling even for fantasy by the way like he he helped my my son walker to a couple titles a couple years ago and yeah there is something about running backs where like you

you can't teach there's no metric exactly for runs his face off per snap but monongai is super high and very often it is the young running backs that that lead the league in that A. Chan is a different style of runner. I don't know why I've like maybe been too low on him compared to consensus over the years. It's the year that he won me over. He should have won it before. But as like a totally complete back, what have you seen just in terms of his development if we're going to give him an honorable mention? Yeah, I think him just being viewed as a speed guy's become like slightly outdated over the past 18 months. He really does have toughness between the tackles. It's not like he's going to do the mon guy stuff. As you mentioned, kind of just run through

people's faces but there is real wiggle and vision and creativity in the hole and making guys miss and you can bounce to the outside and go make plays but having started in the interior line where it used to be yeah they were just kind of try and throw it to him in the flat or they try and get about a toss something towards the perimeter whereas they do feature him a lot more between the tackles now and you still see the the crazy juice okay so i considered a few people though they were not among them i kind of like yours i was like is jaylin warren still underrated i've always loved Jalen Warren. I think he's been as good or better this year than ever.

He just forces miss tackles. Javante Williams is such a big story this season, but it's almost like he's gotten thrown in with the entire Cowboys' offense. He's better, I think, than he's ever been and better than I thought he could be. I mean, this is a guy when I was at Cowboys training camp, everyone there was telling me Miles Sanders was going to be the one-star. It's like, what? But I'm going to go with a second-year player, Kibani Vidal.

I love me. a, and you look very surprised, and I like that. I love me. A guy who can do everything well as like a late round draft pick. And maybe I'm a little, you know, too much of a prisoner of the moment coming off a game against the Raiders where, you know, he busted a million missed force tackles. But when I went back through like his tape, he's forced a ton of mistackles all year. He's in the top, you know, five or six in terms of mistackles force per, uh,

you know, run. And he presses the hole, like, he's pretty patient. But when he makes a decision to go, like, he goes. He's good in pass protection. Like, I did watch a decent amount of that. And I was trying to think of, like, a comparison. There was a play against Devin Lloyd against the Jaguars, where he just does a stutter and go.

And so he has, like, a little more juice than I expected. He is not a guy to build an entire running game around. But whatever they wanted out of Najee Harris, to me, he can be a long-term, really good 1B. So to get that out of your sixth round pick, and I think he is my kind of guy. I was trying to think of a comp for him long-term, maybe not exactly playing style,

but a bigger guy who almost plays in some ways like a smaller guy, more agile, like a Chester Taylor type, who was the backup to Jamal Lewis and then became the guy for a year or two in Minnesota, but it's just good in a tandem. I like Kimani Vidal, and I know the Chargers like him a lot

and I think he's going to be there as a nice one B behind Hampton over the next couple of years. I think that's a really fun, good shout. The past bro, I'm not as there with you on that stuff. He's an interesting one where the effort is all out, I can't quite tell

if he knows he's blocking the right guy or not. And it's hard to tell with that group anyway. The whole thing is just like shelled within two seconds so it's just demolition derby in the backfield and you can't figure out who was supposed to be picking up who. I got a sense based on some of the the post, uh, hit reactions that guys look at him going, where were you? Why were you stood over there? Um, so the actual like one on one, is he willing? Does he want to, is he up for the fight?

I will co-sign that. The picking things up and being in the right positions, I think is still a challenge. But hey, the, the profile you just kind of read out at the player is what everyone is looking for. And that's why people don't go and spend the sixth overall pick on running backs, because you can pick up commande, Vidal later in the draft. Right. And he's not a guy and I know he had the 50-yard touchdown, and he's had some big plays. But I don't think of him as some sort of speed guy, but so many of his good plays this year is where he reads the play correctly that he should just bounce it right away. And he does beat everyone to the edge. In the Steelers game, for instance, that that was more up the middle, but Patrick Queen must have missed four

tackles against him. And I know Patrick Queen misses a lot of tackles. That's not the craziest thing of now. I know, but that was one game. Like, he literally could not tackle. Kumani Vidal. So I just feel like he hasn't gotten a lot of pop. He was not a guy I thought had much upside. I'm not even sure the Chargers did either because he would bounce around on their practice squad and he was not in the plans for this year. But I liked him a lot. Quinchan Junkins is another guy who's, who I just think in a better system would be living it up. We saw him live and like who would you take right now between Judkins and Ash and Jentie long term? Not close. I would take Quinn Sean Judkins.

Did you talk about this already? I honestly think that if Quintan Judkins just played behind a stable, okay-ish offensive line that he would already be considered like the fourth or fifth best back in the league behind those guys. You can just do everything. He's not going to be the guy who can do everything for you. But in terms of everyone, every single fan base going, why don't we have a guy like that on our team? I think you just point out in a stable group. That's where he'd be at already. So he could probably fit because I do not think that the average fan and he just hasn't gotten a lot of pop. And the numbers even for fantasy, like for instance, haven't been great of late. But I,

totally agree. I am convinced he is going to be a real deal top 10 back for a while. So he's underrated as well, but I figured for the exercise, let's give some shouts to some lesser known guys. Let's go to receiver. Give me your, well, let's just start with one receiver each. We'll go back and forth. I'm going to go with Keshan Bouti, who I feel is almost being, he's almost being tossed in as like part of what we've seen with Drake May. People will throw into the conversation. I know you love a conversation is like Drake May's downfield targets are outrageous. Look how out of control Drake May is throwing the ball

down the field and it's not quite added on to the end of the sentence, how good Kishon Bouti is being to complete that stuff. These are tight, tight window throws. He does not create a ton of separation, but he's got unbelievable hands, late hands, separates really late in the route, which is the way to do it down the field. And you just go

through his like e-paper target figures and he's putting up monster production. It's like him and then JSN. Every filthy button, it's him and JSN and everyone knows what a dominant season JSN is having, but I feel like Bouti's kind of getting almost hamstrung as though it's because of Drake May as opposed to his own

excellence. Yeah, he was one of my two receivers as well. Some of the numbers are crazy. I mean, he's only had 42 targets this year. He did miss some time with an injury. Of those 30 catches, first of all, he's catching, he caught 30 out of 42 passes, which you know, it's over 70%.

And the average depth of target is 17 yards down the field. That is just an insane combination. So he has six. 16 explosives, and you're right, like, if he ever separates, it's like in the last half second. Like, he somehow uses his physicality to get away from the receiver. We do have, if you're watching on YouTube, we love you, like the touchdown against the dolphins. And this is nothing more than like, when the ball's in the air, he really locates it well. And this is one where he like almost ducks under the defender at the last second. So I don't know why it's

an underrated skill, like how good you are at literally catching the ball. But he is excellent at that. He beat Kool-Aid McKinistry a couple times in the Saints game with some tough grabs. And I'm with you. You know what's sneaky about him, too? He's only 23 years old. So like, he came into the season. I think they believed he would be the guy that he is. He was kind of their starting X from the first day of training camp. And they said, no, really, he is going to be that guy. And yep, I think part of it is he is younger than people realize and maybe has a higher ceiling than people. realize. And funny because he was drafted almost in the Belichickian mold. Remember Bill used to love taking the guys who were like high school superstars and the career wasn't quite where you wanted

to be in college and he's just like, I'll bet on the athlete, the internal athleticism and we'll coach it up and we'll draft Dominie Gisley with no knees in the first round. It feels like that kind of throwback with booty. What's interesting is 40% of his route to go balls. And that puts him in the bracket of like a Marvin Mims and a Taekwon Thornton where it's just a true down the field burner to create space for everyone else. And yet I think he's just way more. advanced and developed than that. I think the late-hand stuff that grabs the tight window catches, he almost has more of an all-around Jordan Anderson-type mold frame, but just plays the ball infinitely better, and I think with more tenacity

and aggression than Addison does. Yeah, I looked at like the contested catch numbers because I just figured they would be good. He actually had less targets than I expected. He was five for seven, which is an incredible percent. According to PFF, and those numbers can be a little wonky. And one thing I noticed is like, like half of the top receivers in the league were Patriots. Like, DeMario Douglas was somehow near the top of that list. Mac Hollins has been good. So May puts it in a good spot,

and his receivers have been doing a good job for him. All right, that was one of my two receivers. I'm going to go with the more obvious, like, underrated, but it's been a tweet that I've just retweeted of myself every once in a while this season. So that's when you know you really are putting your flag on the ground. It's Alec Pierce, because my line is, no matter. how good you think Alec Pierce is, he's still probably better. And, you know, he started the season. He only had one catch in week one. And it was a throw. I remember that I put up as a throw

of the year nominee against, I think it was the dolphins. But the catch is so awesome, too. And one thing you notice looking at Pierce's film is how quickly he beat so many cornerbacks right off the snap. So he is good at releases. Like he beat Razul Douglas on that. play. He turns inside and the balls to his outside. It's a good ball by Daniel Jones to get away from Minka Fitzpatrick. And he locates it so well in the air. Like in terms of size and speed and ball skills, to me, he's, he's just everything you want. So I'm going to be fascinated to see what kind of money he gets if the Colts let him get to the free agent market. I just don't think they will. They'll have to franchise tag him if they don't give him a monster contract.

I was going to ask you about that because you have to put your annual phrases list together. And It's a pretty shallow pool if you go look at it this season. And so I imagine his agent, he's going to be 26 going to next season. You can't teach that kind of size and speed blend. They go hunting for these guys in the draft every single season. Then you end up with Dante Thornton not getting a single snap, essentially, for the Raiders. You can go and build in a ready-made. I mean, he has.

If you go through some of the next-gen figures on, like, average speed, he's like the second quickest guy in the NFL on a per-step basis. So to be able to go and find that kind of production, I do wonder if they're going to have a tough time bringing him back. they've got to do the Jones contract. I guess that pot committed because they're going to have to bring Jones back. They did the source deal. But if he does hit the market,

it's probably going to be a pretty tasty deal. Well, A.D. Mitchell was supposed to be, I think, the backstop to probably, well, we probably can't play pay Alec Pierce. You know, they want, Josh Downs is another guy that should be there long term. They've already paid Pittman. But now that you traded A.D. Mitchell,

and that didn't work out. I think that has to work. What have you seen? out of him becoming a little more of a complete receiver. Now, the routes where he does do different things, like he has a good contested catch against Sartan going across the middle, like stand out to me. But then when I went back for this exercise and went through it,

maybe he wasn't quite as versatile as he thought. He still was a little more. Like, he does moss people. That's what he does best, and that is the most exciting part of his game. What do you think about how he's developed in his career? Yeah, I don't see any of that development. I think sometimes we tried to pat ourselves in the back

to look like we know ball and we watch more film than other people. It's like, no, really. He does just do the go deep stuff at an incredibly high level. There was way less of it. There was way less of it than I expected. But when he does it, it does it great.

There was another play last week, which our ace producer, Eric, has ready, where he beats Kamari Lasseter for the touchdown. And again, it's just so fast. And so that's the combination where it's not like he's a stiff coming off the line. of scrimmage, he wins, like, immediately and makes that catch. I love me some Alec Pierce.

All right, give me your second wide receiver on your team, assuming you're at least lining up two wide receivers. You're not going to go in like a three tight end formation or anything. I really wanted to. Then I looked at my tight ends on my wig. I'm going to be pretty slow. I don't know how we're going to move the ball. I'm going to stick with the Colts and go with Josh Downs.

I know he's like incredibly well-known and he's almost become almost a meme of like, could you get more production out of him? I just think there's so much more to his game than they even use him. They are kind of pigeonholed with pierces, the go-shot guy Downs, is coming off the field slightly more now because they want to get some more two titan stuff. It limits what he can do with the top of the route, in-out twitch in the middle of the field. I just think he is so true vintage what we used to have as a slot receiver.

Now everyone's a power slot and it's Drake London. It's these big guys. It's Pooka Nakua. And he just to me is in the old school mole of Julian Edelman. You line him up in the slot. They get a two-way go on a slot guy. Liquid hips. No one can keep up with him.

And he's just open consistently. Liquid hips. Is that like a new term or? I probably stole that from DJ in like 2012, I imagine. Liquid, liquid hips. I wish someone would tell me I had liquid hips. That's amazing. Yeah, I love me some Josh Downs.

I fell way more in love with him, actually, when I was studying Drake May in college. And I realized like the biggest difference between one year to the next is he doesn't have Josh Downs. And Josh Downs is incredible. Not that I didn't love him in the NFL, but you really saw his potential there at UNC. And he makes a ton of catches away from his frame.

This isn't just like, I mean, there's the one against the Texans, which is probably the most common one that people will have seen, which is the sideline grab where it's over the shoulder, and he goes and gets it off the sideline, essentially, but he plays so much bigger than he actually is. He is not typically my kind of guy.

I like my receivers who come in and do the dirty work and they get involved in the action, someone like Pooko who's really invested in the blocking game, someone like Drake London, Jacoby Myers, those kind of guys. Typically where I look with the underrated, I think Josh Downs has a real, like, gravitational pull on a defense, and yet they don't quite scheme around him in that kind of way. I think they leave a bunch of production on the field with him.

So Booty was my number two on this team. The other guy I just want to give a shout at. And I'm not saying, like, you're going to build an offense around him. But how about Wondell Robinson just being in the top 10 of receivers in the NFL? How about Wondell? Because when I watched them, like, last few years, and they, like, it almost became a joke how he was their entire offense last year, a seven-yard pass to Wando Brown. But I always thought, like, well, that's not his fault.

And he can play a role for a good team. And they're asking him to do more. But the fact that, like, he's doing a little more downfield, he has had a few more contested catches. It's not a great idea to do that. He has gotten leveled on some throws from Jackson Dart and James Winston this year. And he hasn't come up with all of them, but he has held on to a different amount. I just, Like, he is maximizing the guy that I think Wondell Robinson can be. He's going to end up with, like, a 1,200-yard season thrown into his career. So shout out Wondell Robinson. Just give him some love.

My guy in that category will be Jacoby Myers, who I know you've discussed a bunch on the show. He gets an odd amount of love on NFL daily for that kind of player. But his toughness in the middle of the field and him joining the Jackson and I'm saying, now our offense is built around you and Brenton Strange. That is the offense. Forget Brian Thomas Jr. Travis Hunter's gun down. Liam's like, I finally have my.

guy. It was Jacoby Myers all along and now the offense works. That to me is pretty cool. Okay, wait. So is Brenton Strange one of your tight ends? Because he is one of mine. I feel like he almost has to be because the underrated aspect is that Liam Cohen got to Jacksonville. We're all excited about them trading up for Travis Hunter, them having Brian Thomas Jr. who just looked so sensational as a rookie, was completely uncoverable as a rookie. It was basically open every other play when he was like invested in and running what they're asked him to do. Liam Cohen gets says like I am I've been in the lab I'm one of the geniuses of the league

and I've decided to design my entire offense around Brenton Strange that was what he came up without it and it worked and then Brendan Strange goes down and the offense doesn't work he returns it works again so when you say they design their entire offense out of Brenton Strange maybe

explain for the listeners how you mean that because even though he has been productive and he missed that month with the injury and immediately productive when he comes back it's not like off the charts production. So when you say the whole offense is kind of a round strange, what do you mean by that? What they do with formationally, with the strength of the formation, how they get to their base run game, all the pulling and movement and creativity they want to do is based on him

being the guy who can pin and play like a tackle so you can pull and move guys around him as that you had no lineman in there, then you get the overlay of the play action and being pretty neutral and balanced in your dropback game because you feel like he can threaten the seam to. And it's the exact same description of Kate Otton. It's, can you you block on the move? Can you sit and pin like an offensive tackle when we're up at the line of scrimmage and can you slice across the formation and block people on the move? Those are usually two separate skill sets of the NFL. It's either the big guys who block and can drive people vertically or you get more of the Dallas Goddard who is an unbelievable blocker on the move. Those are

two distinct skill sets. Typically, he can do it all. And so it opens up every single thing you want to do as an offense is only viable because one guy can do three key functions for the entire like build of the offense. Yeah, and he was my first thought for this too. So I started looking like, are they using him differently than a year ago? Now, in terms of him being like in line or in the slot, it's about the same.

He's 60% in line. He's 25% in the slot. You know, they put him in the backfield or out wide. A significant amount of plays, but certainly he's not majoring that. And it wasn't that different before. But he's moving, he just moves really fluid. He has great ball skills.

I mean, Trevor Lawrence is, percentages throw into Breton Strange are so much higher than anyone else. And they're not all short passes. Like he's come up with some some ground balls. He's come up with some high throws from Trevor Lawrence. So he's good at that. And to my eye, he is a good blocker, like a very good blocker in the running game that I've seen. And it's just maybe the prototype of like, yeah, tight ends take a minute to really develop. It's such a hard position. And I've loved watching him this year. Give me another one of your tight ends. It has to be AJ Barner

with the Seahorts, which is a very similar thing with Cohen and Strange as with Kubiak and Bonner who gets to Seattle and they've got all the fun pieces on the perimeter. He's like, I'm going to design the offense around AJ Barna. We have to have titans staying to block a whole bunch. They developed this true

under-center drop-back passing game trying to throw it back to like the 90s. Every single time for the first eight weeks of the season, they drop back from under center, which was a decent amount, Donald's eyes were immediately on AJ Barnett. That was all they were looking to do was the payoff play of us selling that it's even going to be play action. So there's like a bit of a delay in what we're going to do as a defense or fitting up against the room was just to try and find AJ Barner down the scene. That's like the entire point of the offense. I would just would not have

expected to go into a year that that would have been one of their like a plus game plan answers. We got to find Barner. That's just not what you would have thought. No, not at all. So I'm curious of the comparison of these two guys, because maybe I'm overstating it, but if I made a list, is Brenton, Brenton Strange to me, just quality, he might be a top 10 all around tight end now. I think he is. Is A.J. Barner potentially getting to that level of overall play? Possibly, I think Strange is significantly better running off the ball on the blocking game. You can do more with him. The blocking game was with Barner. They tried to get him some kind of help or try to cheat the mechanics to get him out of there as quickly as

possible. Whereas I just think there's more on the menu of Brenton Strange. A sentence I never thought I would say. It's like everything is on the menu because Brenton Strange is on your team. I think Barn is a little bit more limited. But still, if you look at the top 10 guys, to me, it's a distinction of, do we have a playmaking guy? That's the number one thing anyway. I don't care if we can do everything. If we've got a better guy than they have, I'd rather just have Trey McBride or Sam Leport or something just go make plays the way some of these other guys won't be able to do. If you get into that more

all-around category, which I think is a distinctive category, then for this season alone, Bonner would be in the top five. So if I'm and I am putting two tight ends on the field, sorry Juan Dale. My other options would be Ronde Gadsden, who is somehow having

one of the most monstrous rookie tight end seasons ever and yet I feel like is underrated just so I just wanted to give him a shout and he's certainly not that all-around guy, but damn, he moves well. Like, he's an incredible weapon for that offense. Hunter Henry, just for being old, reliable, and a lot of their offense,

I think what you're saying about building it, and not like it's built around Hunter Henry, but he is a foundational piece of one of the best offenses in the league. And then I don't know if we've now gassed up Darneau, Washington enough he doesn't even qualify here, but we at least got to give him a shout out. That is the concern, you know.

I love Donnell. watched him more than some members of my family. He's really important to just my life and my well-being, but I feel like he's become almost like a meme at this point that he's like close to maybe being slightly overstated for his impact. I do think he's a guy, if you gave him to Josh McDaniels, would be like, we'd be talking about something really special. He's stuck with Arthur Smith and they're throwing Jono out there all the time. All right. Who would you throw out there then? I agree. He doesn't really fit the exercise between Gadsden and Hunter Henry, old reliable.

Definitely a good year. I mean, Tunges hasn't played as much. Tunges looks really, really impressive. Like, really impressive. Tunges. Yeah, really impressive. Who else would I throw out? No, I was asking, I'm not putting you out of spot

to choose between Gadsden and Henry for my second spot this year. I can't go with Hunter Henry. I understand what you're saying. They do design an awful lot of the offense around him, but he's also like the fail point from all that base of you. All those rushing things. as being a disaster, not just because the offensive line isn't good enough. Like, there's a lot of fail that happens when he's up at the point of attack. So I would maybe lean Gadsden, but he has

nowhere near the kind of all-around impact. Now, if you're doing two tight ends, we need the playmaking guy. So then you throw, you throw Gadsden on the team. He is that playmaking guy. He is my slot. I like my team so far. Let's take a quick break. We're going to come back and we're going to do the quarterbacks and Ali is going to run through his all underrated offense form. If a Lenovo gaming computer is on your holiday list, don't shop around, just go directly to the source, Lenovo.com. It's your last chance to score exclusive deals on the gaming PCs you want,

like the Lenovo Legion Tower 5 Gen 10 gaming desktop and Lenovo Lock Gaming Laptop. So avoid all that shopping, chaos, and price comparing, and just go directly to the source, Lenovo.com, where PCs are up to 35% off. That's Lenovo.com. It's 5.23 p.m. One of your kids is asking for a snack. Another is building a fort out of your clean laundry,

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Go to Hellofresh.com.com. Dinner 50. That's Hellofresh.ca promo code Dinner50. Hellofresh.com. Hellofresh. Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. Hey, what's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. If you love breaking down football from every angle, you're in the right place. Every week on Move the Six, Bucke Brooks and I dive deep into the game from the X's and O's to the front office moves shaping the league. We kick things off with Brian Baudinger, breaking down what really went down on Sunday.

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I just want to remind everyone how good Rishie Rice was last season and these three healthy games. He was the wide receiver 2 in fantasy. I think Rishie Ryshe goes off this week. The Chiefs come on a flip pass to Rice. Near side, touchdown! Remandre Stevens is my sleeper this week. This is a matchout where I think I can slide in Stevenson

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Is that another email from your boss bragging about their fantasy football team? It's time to take them down in the playoffs. I'm J.J. Zachary Esen, host of the Late Round Fantasy Football Podcast. Tune in daily for winning insights to help dominate your work league, your family league,

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can throw them out there for the for the defensive team we'll get there i did the only negative plays had all season you you managed to find the film it's brutal that's fair that's fair okay let let's get to quarterback i didn't know what to go i guess it's partly because of the position like what is underrated at quarterback i could have chosen a million quarterbacks here or it was very difficult to choose just one so i'll put you on the hot seat to start yeah i found this the toughest one just because I feel like it's covered so well as a position that everyone feels well-slotted. There's still an element of me about how many years can I go on saying that I feel like Jared Goff is under-discussed and undervalued for what he does. Jordan Love, I just feel,

is so special yet still gets thrown into a camp of like, is he, isn't he? And I just think that he is. So I toyed with that. The one I settled on was Bryce Young in the sense that I think he's an NFL caliber starter and yet there's still conversation of should they pick up the option, pick up the option what will the extension look like and it's pretty hard to find NFL caliber starters even with the number one overall pick it's pretty tough to do you go look at the recent history of that thing it's not that strong i think that bryce's development has been fascinating this season in a bunch of like under the hoodways that give me some confidence that he can at least be league average for a sustained degree of his career and that's no poor thing

and so i think he's become slightly underrated for the actual player he is that's that's Fascinating to me, because I know you've had your doubts about him. I have given up listening to the read optional for Lent, or no, just for this show, for the Saturday Sicko show. But everyone should check out Allie's great podcast with John Ledyard. It is worth signing up for his substack for the writing and for the podcast. And you've wondered, you know, in the off season, whether Bryce Young was really like a great fit for what this Dave Canales offense was trying to be when it was trying to be so traditional.

has been an up and down year for young. Like, the good games have been incredible. The bad games, especially early in the season, like some of his first quarters were just disastrous. What has he done in terms of development under the hood you're talking about that you've seen that gets him on this list? I just think the level of mental and physical toughness is like the super skill he has. People, when I've already talked about Breiswing, I wrote this giant column in the offseason about Breis Jung where I effectively have like a mental breakdown trying to figure out a player I just couldn't understand. I just couldn't get with what was happening with him and his development. And I got asked when I was doing the podcast rounds about that piece of, well,

what is the super skill? And I think the super skill is the intellect and the toughness. And there's been plenty of guys who've had unbelievable careers where those are the two super skills. And so his ability to stay composed under fire has limited. There have still been disaster plays. You go and watch the Niners game. There's disaster plays everywhere. I get it. But it's less than it used to be. And he's still in an ill-fitting setup, which gives me, that if it was slightly more well suited to his natural game, which is in the gun,

playing point guard, which they can't do at the moment because of the team around him and because the way the coach wants to play, that he could have a stronger career and be a viable starter, which is just not where certainly I was at at the end of even less season.

I don't think the fifth year option decision is that difficult. I did say a month ago on the show that I thought it was going to be an important that was coming off his worst game of the year. It was going to be an important stretch run for him because if he threw in a lot more games like that and didn't show development,

would they bring in competition in the off-season for him? He's had some of his best games of the season since then, so that I think is going to put that to bed. And the fifth-year option decision to me is less difficult, even if they ever wanted to bring in another quarterback there. It's $26.5 million. At this point, that's pretty low for, like, a starting quarterback. Even if you don't love him, you just have to kind of get,

get used to what the salary cap numbers are. That's low. Like, he could not even have his starting job going into his fifth year, and that's not that crazy or be battling. So I'm with you. You've got to see the development. And, you know, I've been copying him to Alex Smith his whole career in terms of what his career arc could be,

especially with that brutal rookie year, bounce back to just stable second year. And I think he's sort of still on that path, even if they're different players. And I think it's a way to one because I was so down endower on Dave Canales and how he kind of viewed the game and went about coaching it, and particularly how he approached Bryce early on. Then I was really impressed with how he completely over all this system to be like, I just got to accept who my quarterback is, and I'm

going to roll with that, that I've now pivoted to being, if you had to pick one of the two of them, I would pick Canales over Bryce Young, and I would be all for bringing competition and saying, for example, if they had Cam Ward in that system right now, would be, I think, better, and a way better long-term fit. But I just think that Bryce's skill set has shown me that if he went and he was the Cardinal's quarterback next season or whatever it was, that he would be a viable starter, even with the concerns people have. I think the touch, the downfield throwing, enough off-script creativity. He has a super processor in his head. He just sees things and react so quickly to everything that's happening that he could have a Alex Smith career is a great

example that he could have in eight years. He gets with whatever his version of Andy Readers. And the team is really good and competitive, but he's just never going to quite be one of the the 15 or 12 best quarterbacks in the league on a given season. And if he's 24 years old and he's got that super, you know, processor in his head, that's going to get better and that advantage could become a bigger advantage as he has more time in the league. So I like that. Shout out.

Like, DAC was where I started to land and I might get there. I'm going to just talk it through with you and we'll decide. Because I just think he's been incredible this year. he's having a peak that year, which means he's as good as any quarterback in the entire NFL. And so to me, that is for how he's talked about,

he is underrated. Going lower on the list, there are some options. Now, the way I've heard people talk about Mac Jones of like, hey, you could trade for Mac Jones and make him the guy in New York. It's like, okay, he is no longer underrated. That's a terrible idea.

But for what he did, I always kind of wondered, well, what would have happened if Kyle Shannon actually had back. We found out. You know what? He's second in success rate this year. He's behind Sam Darnold.

He is ahead of Stafford, May, Daniel Jones, like go through all the names. He's literally ahead of everyone else. Even if you're looking for more like big play type of numbers, EPA per play, it's almost identical to what Purdy is there and at QBR. And I do think Purdy is a better player. And the way I've now like Mac is getting elevated to like he's that next, Daniel Jones. I'm not so sure, but I was glad I got to watch him in this offense. I think

do a few things. What did you see out of Mac Jones? Tell me I'm not just crazy. That it's not all the system that he did some things in this system that were impressive. No, he throws, he rips balls down the field all the time. That's who he was at Alabama. He was the best deep thrower in the country. He would throw with all this loft on the day. I mean, they had like a, you know, Heisman room of receivers when he was at Alabama. So you just throw it up somewhere down there and those guys would find it. But they were running a really difficult. complicated offense Alabama at the time and he would rethink so well

and I always thought with him when he was with the pages it worked well with McDaniels when McDaniels understood the assignment which was this guy is like an 18 pass attempts a game type player and he's probably going to give us two absolute moon shots down the field when we want it but we cannot put the ball on this guy's hands to decide games and point guard us down the field as that

we've got Brady or something I think you saw that more with Shan there were games the Rams game where the balls in his hands a lot and then you get the two brainfarts or errors but if you put him on the Vikings next season And it's like, we're just going to throw the ball 20 times. And if you can just have one mistake and two, you know, absolute hero shots down the field, we feel pretty good about that.

That's a good landing spot if he was going to move on to another team. I think the 49ers will have zero interest in trading him, except for for a huge price. And I don't think anyone's going to want to give him a huge price. They've got him under contract for a low cost. Purdy has had his share of injuries. Like, that's very valuable to them. All right.

Well, Eric kind of made the decision. for me. Mac Jones, baby. If you're watching, if you're watching on YouTube, he put Mac Jones Baby as my all underrated QB. I was still debating between him. And then I did want to give a shout out to one of Chris Wesleyan's favorite quarterbacks back in the day, Marcus Mariotta.

Just getting it done, like runs that offense well. I actually was surprised some of his under the hood numbers weren't like as great as I thought because to me he's passing the eye test, but he is doing his job. He is everything you want out of a backup quarterback. So I love him kind of realize. his best self here with the commanders. And if you look at, you know, I mentioned how shallow

the free agent pool. There's all these teams saying do we bring in a veteran to compete? Do we go and find a bridge guy? Go look at the veteran quarterbacks who are going to be available in the offseason. It is absolute nightmare fuel. Marcus Mario is going to get paid really, really well to come in and compete for someone next season. Sneaky Young, somehow still

only 32 years old. Don't let the gray hair fool you. And it is funny because I think about Wes all the time with Marioita and Winston. We just for some reason spent half of our three of a three year period debating between the two and here they are still sort of on these twin tracks and now they're just these fun backups that are that are playing well and elevating their teams when they do play all right let's go to the offensive line we will wrap there and i'm i'm leaning on you here i have one thought um but i'm actually going to seed the floor let's start at the tackle position give me your two tackles you have on

the all underrated team. So I went left and right tackle as you should do with teams. You should put them in their proper position. So a left tackle to me, it's a straight shootout between Bernard Ryman and Paris Johnson. I went with Paris Johnson. I did enjoy, he had a quote about a month ago about how much better life is essentially with Jacoba set in the building and not having to do with Kalamari about how much easier it is to fight and be engaged in football. So that's been fun to watch when he's in there. I think he's still only 24. He's really figuring things out now that he's not quite, I don't think, as athletically gifted to be one of the five best in the league for a prolonged stretch of his career. And with the sixth overall pick,

you really hope you can go and get yourself someone with the physical capabilities of like a maillata. But he just plays with such veteran savvy. It's as basic as like just stay in front of the guy, stick on and try and sustain through the block as best as you can. And that really is the best you can hope for when we've had so many duds who have like the right athletic profile coming into the league. And he was built as a super athlete. He just doesn't quite move. that way with the springs to keep it with the dominant guys. I mean, he got crushed by Michael Parsons, crushed by Josh Heinz Allen.

So against the tier one guys, he just can't sink and bend with their true great ones, but he'll shut down the B tier rushes, which is a really similar profile to Bernard Ryman, where you really want to have the top five left tackle in the league, but it's really viable to have one of those guys, six through 12, and I think that Paris Johnson has made his way into that group.

Yeah, you, because when I watch him, he does seem to move and have basically everything that you want. But you're seeing him, because he is young as like closer to, I'm trying to think of like the level of career, like a Jake Matthews type of career than possibly being a top five type of guy. Yeah, where you look up and you're like, that guy's been there for 12 years? Is he being in the league that long?

But he says you can't find a replacement. It's dumb to go and chase something better. But yeah, he's not Trent Williams. And you just have to live with that. And it's really valuable. Even when you go through some of his pressure figures, I went through and I looked at some of the pressures, and I think a lot of the stuff is just not on him. It's really hard to tabulate the pressures, particularly if it's one of the chip ones, where it's like database and how close they are to the quarterback. A lot of that is Kyla moving into pressure.

A lot of that is like blown blocking mechanics where he's in the right spot and then he gets dinged with the pressure because it's off his side, but he's, you know, blocking up correctly based on the line call. So I think if you go through like true pressures where he struggled, it's really only been against the tier one players. Most guys struggle with those guys. I just watch Trent Williams get as, you know, get whooped by Miles Gara over and over again. That's what happens against the great plays. Yeah, and when Jacoby Brissette is holding the ball for about three and a half seconds, that's not easy.

Jacoby, I love how, man, if he could just not be like inexplicably inaccurate on about four throws a game, he's freaking awesome. I guess that's been a case for him because he just hangs in there, but man, he is holding the ball forever. and he's making it harder on his offensive line, and, you know, they've been better some weeks than other. Bernard Ryman is a good shoutout, too. I thought, you know, for this extra, like,

I thought when Zach Tom signed that big contract, then everyone was going to start just talking about him as one of the best, you know, right tackles, one of the best players in the league. And from what I've watched, I think he's having a great season. But still, I don't think he's really getting that love. So I throw Zach Tom out there still as underrated somehow, despite all the money.

I would always throw his act, Tom, in there. If you start putting together the list of best right tackles, you get to his name like third in line. Like, he's just right there. He is, even if you just go by skill set, the slick feet, the base, everything is as good. The fluidity, he's as good as anyone going. He's just not quite in that A plus tier of like Elaine Johnson

where it's like, oh, here's a Hall of Famer in their prime doing it at the highest level. He's another guy who, I remember last season when he had Will Anderson, Daniel Hunter, and he was just in an absolute blender. He's like, I am not as physically capable as these guys, but you put him against all the other A minus B plus guys. He just locks down the really, really good plays in the league.

And he is an absolute killer in the run game, too, which the rest of the group is just, you know, pretty much a travesty. And now only ever flows when it goes through through Zach Tom. It is funny because you're saying how it's not easy to find tackles. And yet, you know, switching back to Ryman, who you mentioned, the left tackle for the Colts. They did find, like, the Anthony Costanzo, like, replacement exactly after. And so it's not hard for it. Chris Ballard's done a good job with that. And I went to look. I remember he signed that contract last off season. Four years, $100 million, $60 million guaranteed. They kind of got ahead of it with Ryman. And that's going to age very well, I think, for the Colts. All right. Let's go to the interior line. Who are your guards?

My gods, we have to start with Damien Lewis from the Panthers, who might now be my favorite player in the NFL. Wow. an absolute bowling ball of a human being he is the tiniest squattest interior lineman we have and he just is out there to take souls and what can you not love about an interior lineman who is just out there crushing everyone who rarely ever loses one-on-one in pass pro

I've watched him go up against Milton Williams and Dionne Walker, Zach Seeler Josh Heinzellon we mentioned in Trayvon Walker went up against both those guys one-on-one he just nails people immediately at the point of contact and the rep is just over not as quick moving side to side and pass bro but in the run game he is just an absolute killer he is so low to the ground he just gets up and under people immediately gets into position can twist and contort anyone that you like crazy crazy grip strength despite having these really tiny arms he just locks into people and can maneuver even the best in the game and can reset the line in his own the packers film is like all time like just go and watch one guy on his own muller front one-on-one they keep sending different bodies out and way Like someone else got the Lewis assignment.

He's like, I'm good. I'm going to go right with that guy's afternoon. So Damien Lewis, I've just fallen in love with. I love with that. You sent me a clip that I guess is common on tape with it. He's just like four yards down the field blocking his guy. You're seeing that a lot. That's turned into a great free agent pickup.

I think that was one of Dan Morgan's first signings. It was kind of what they planted their flag doing. And it got some side eyes, I think, from people in the media and around the league. and it sounds like it's worked out incredibly well. He used to be very oddly flailing. I don't know if he was concerned about having short rounds or he just kind of flail out there. Now he's just like, F it.

I'm just going to go and set the terms myself. If I get in someone's face, the snap is over, which is why, as you said, you get the snaps where he's three yards ahead of the rest of the line, just all throwing up on themselves and panicking. And he's just out there hanging and chilling. Yeah, I was trying to think who else,

who was the other guy that they signed that they gave the huge money to is Robert Hunt, who's been on injured reserve this year. but it did it did give them a bit of an identity really the last two years uh certainly last year running the ball and uh that's a good shout out give me your other first team guard i'm gonna go with mike on wenu who okay just come in and being as rediscovered himself i would say as a stable force he does not quite move people in the run game the way he did when he was pique mike on wenu and it used to be he was this dominant imposing run blocker and it were

concerns is he have the feet to really move in Pass Pro, you have to hide him and sneak him around. Now it's kind of flipped where he looks a little bit stiff getting off the ball and it's not always sweet in exactly what you won. But in Passpro, he has gone up against some of the best in the league, toe-to-to-to, and take it on Dexter Lawrence and Vita Veyer

and Malik Collins and Jeffrey Simmons and just locked everyone down. So Michael Wenner, with the Patriots, of course, it's a dangerous spot here. First of all, you know, there's a lot of Patriots talk here on this underrated team. So we could be accused by second i should have i should have mentioned for for the listeners damian lewis is a panther was on the seahawks i know he's not a household name so so next time you're watching the panthers uh check

out damian lewis road grading for for rico dowdell there in the backfield ohenu is interesting because so many people form their opinions on offensive linemen based on pf and i feel like He's been a PFF darling. But he's also been very up and down in his career. Kind of an unpredictable career arc where it's like year to year, position to position. You know, he has moved around quite a bit. But you kind of feel like he's stabilized and like he's going to be on this team because it's funny. In the preseason, there was some talk that he might be on the way out, kind of like Kyle Dugger.

But instead, here he is on Ali Connell's all underrated team. What an honor. And I will say the right guard spot is a little tough because Sam Cosmy has missed time with health and I feel like he's still underrated. And then Dominic Poonie, who was like the, I thought he was going to be really, really specialist had a pretty difficult second year in the league. It's hard to say he's underrated this point. So he kind of looking through and going, well, everyone knows Quinn Miners is the best right guard

in league he just is. So you get to this almost like second team all pro and you're looking around like the John Travolta meme like, okay, where are my right guards that we can try and throw into this team? And I just feel like on when I think having Morgan Moses is having a second. stable presence to the right side is what has allowed him to be so strong in pastbro, just having some degree of certainty, like, okay, we're not going to win every single rep with Morgan Moses, but at least I know that guy knows where he's going to be, he's going to

know who to pick up, and it's not like me looking around and panicking, because the thing on when he struggles with the most is when there's some kind of exchange and he's got to look one way and then reset and go the other way, if you at least have some degree of certainty that a vet understands the assignment, I think you can just play quicker and that's where he's improved this season. There are so few values in free agency, especially on the offensive line. But you can find this on the defensive line, too. You can, like, the one place you can find value is like the 34, 35-year-old,

just like get us through a season, Morgan Moses type. Like, those guys keep being out there. They don't get paid that much. And they play as well or better than guys paid a lot more that are a lot younger and they get you by for a season. Let's wrap up with your center choice. This was a tough one. This was like a head and heart situation for me

because I think that Luke Wattenberg with the Broncos is maybe the most underrated player, but I'm sure there's some people like, who is that person? Who is Luke Wattenberg? Is that a law firm? Is that a guy who plays the NFL? So yeah, he's one of the best centers playing in the NFL. But I have to say it's Aaron Brew with the Dolphins

who I think should probably even be creed. It's always tough. But he's got a real shout for being the first team all pro cent of this season. Wow, that is a great shout-out. You know, by the way, on Wattenberg, who agrees with you? A contract that we did not hit on this show was a four-year, $48 million, only $13 million guaranteed contract by the Broncos a couple weeks ago, or maybe even just a week ago, Sean Payton did it again. He has a way of finding these interior guys and getting them signed for way too little money. Like Jari Evans, like those guys back with the Saints were

like some of those underpaid players in the league for a while because they signed these early contract. So Wattenberg could go down like that. Tell me more about Brewer, though. And I know you like Patrick Paul's development too for Miami, but what does Brewer do that's unique among centers? Just the explosiveness. He might be the twitchiest guy out of his stance in the league. The snap and go stuff is not an easy skill for a lot of these players to figure out. You go and watch someone like a Zach Fraser. And he comes in him and says, this is the greatest center prospect in years. You go and watch the first year film. He struggles to snap and then move. It's like pretty difficult when you're trying to figure out all these giant bodies in front of you.

remember what the run mechanics are and we've got a lot of plays it's not college football you watch brewer go he just moves at a different speed and tempo to everyone else he rarely loses one-on-one in pass pro so you get all kind of like the linda bomb run game upside with the speed and the strength and the intellect without any of the like let's just take giant ls every third drive uh in pass pro um and yeah i was going to say speaking of taking giant ls poor chris beer chris greer like this was a giant w for him and he's not still around to enjoy it. So shout out to Chris Greer for this. The other thing I love about Brewer is he knows how much better he is than other people in the league and he plays

with like a real disdain. When he's played the Bills this season, there are so many instances of him looking around like sick at how bad the competition is after the play. He's like, how dare you step to a field with me? I'm Aaron Brewer and I'm great. That's awesome. And not comforting if you're like Eric Roberts is producing here, a Bills fan. Let's wrap up with Eric's idea. He just wanted one matchup here, Ali, that you're looking to. We're heading into what I think is the most interesting slate of the season. We've got three really important intriguing games in the early window on Sunday. All the primetime games are going to be really huge in terms of playoff leverage. What is just like a matchup, whether it's a player, you know,

a passing offense, whatever it is that you're most looking forward to this weekend. this might be a little off the wall so I apologize but seeing how the Cardinals defensively want to get after the Rams because that staff more than most in the league put stuff on film

that everyone goes and steals now they don't have the talent to compete necessarily at the level everyone else does but seeing what they cook up against Sean McVeigh they are the ultimate like bespoke game plan staff

we don't have the horses we don't have the talent let's try and figure out something crazy we can do to steal a couple of possessions does not always work as we see by the record and the late game collapses, but I have a feeling they'll put some stuff down

against the Rams that works, the Steelo Drive or two, the other people will then go and steal moving into the playoffs. That's really interesting, and they play them twice down the stretch here, and I brought it up on the show. I wasn't sure how much to put into it, but they did hold the Rams to a combined 23 points last year.

And the talent's probably better overall, and even the defense, like the numbers will tell you, this is like a borderline top 10 defense. It still has been a good Cardinals Devens. They're one of the best, you know, Damning with praise, three and nine teams I've ever seen in my life. They will make the Rams offense work.

So that's a fascinating shout out. Like what have you, as we wrap up, what have you liked about this Cardinals defense this year? Not an awful lot, frankly. I'm not with you on them being one of the best three and nine teams. I see now, to that credit, they've had so many injuries in the secondary. They're rolling guys in and out all the time trying to fix about.

I'm just saying they're a five or six win team. they could easily be six and six and six and they'd be like they should be six and six right had not blown games they would be six and six um my number one thing with the cardinals where i'm like oh i do not like this is not good for my soul is the decline of buda who is the perennial all underrated player off just like the hall of fame guy like you don't realize we had troy palomalu returned to the league and he's just playing out in arizona on shitty teams it's really unfair um to see us a dip in buddha's form and i'm wondering can we we get him maybe to another team where there's like a second research and a second life,

would they allow him to try and do that? Or is it just once the decline comes for that position, that's just a problem. And a lot of stuff they do, their most creative stuff, and they are probably the wonkiest defense in the NFL, is this is the coverage shell, here's where everyone is, and then Buddha, you just go and do what you want to do. You just figure it out on your own. That works really well when he's at peak athleticism, peak mentality, can read the game quicker than anyone else.

When that takes even a 3% ding, you get all kind of issues in coverage. We put you on the spot and you delivered, like Budapaker does so often. They gave him an extension in December last year. It's always a weird time for an extension. And so he's probably not going anywhere. That would be tough to trade.

But he is one of those players. I agree with you that I'd like to see in a different uniform at some point in the spotlight making playoff runs. They're not doing that anytime. soon. All right. That's it for the all underrated team on offense. I enjoyed doing it. I think we should do the defense next week. And then

we don't even have to come up with another idea. Another Saturday for the sickos. Thank you, Ollie. Thanks, Greg. We'll be back. These Saturday shows obviously are the last time before you hear us before the recap show. Jordan Roderig, who's been away on assignment

should have mentioned at some point this week for the athletics. She'll be back in the studio with myself and Patrick Claibon and Nick Shook in Cleveland. the Recap Show. We'll see you then. If a Lenovo gaming computer is on your holiday list, don't shop around. Just go directly to the source, Lenovo.com. It's your last chance to score exclusive deals on the gaming PCs you want, like the Lenovo Legion Tower 5 Gen 10 gaming desktop and Lenovo Lock

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