NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Seahawks-Giants MNF Recap, Pickett Injury, Patriots Misery

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

In a virtual room fill of heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, and Marc Sessler recap Week 4's Monday Night Football matchup between the Seahawks and the Giants. After the guys talk Monday Night Football, they get you caught up on news from around the NFL including an update on Kenny Pickett's injury (22:25), Jonathan Taylor's status with the Colts (25:10), a tough week for the Patriots (32:06), and the latest development in the Chase Claypool drama (38:00). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. for the score first and goal one-on-one at the top with d k metcalf here is walker for the touchdown this was picked back the other way witherspoon devon whitherspoon cuts back what a night for the rookie you think they love in Seattle.

How about six points? Touchdown Witherspoon, no flags. You know, typically with these island games, we like to give you that little buffet of highlights and we'll mix in, you know, one from one of the losing team and then a couple from the winning team. But some games, you got to go triple play. from the victor and this was that case for the seahawks who went to the meadowlands and

really put the put the giant season i don't want to get crazy here and we'll get to it but to me kind of on ice in some ways uh with a 24 three win uh in front of 75 let's say about 66 000 furious giants fans and about 10 000 uh delirious Seattle fans or at least that's how it sounded as they took over that building in the swamp late in the game, a dominating performance by the defense of the Seahawks. Bobby Wagner, one of four Seahawks to have two sacks in this game. I believe they had 11 total, and it was that pick six that put the game away, but in many ways, this was really as one-sided as it gets, even if the score wasn't quite as dramatic as one would say for a total boat race.

Dan Hanz is here with Greg Rosenthal and Mark Sessler on a Monday night. Greggy, you love your Seahawks. You love your Gino Smith. But this is like, this is a beautiful win for Pete Carroll's team. And you could tell by Carol's reaction on the sideline, this is right up his alley. He's going to sleep well tonight. Yeah, because all he's wanted for what, eight years now is to bring it back. Bring it back to those Legion of Boom defenses that they celebrated in 2013 just a week ago.

They had a big celebration in Seattle. There's all the players coming back except for one player who's still on the team that they were celebrated. And that's Bobby Wagner. And him being one of the guys with two sacks to me was fitting because they had 11 sacks. It's just bonkers. This has not been a good defense this year. I think they have the pieces to get better, stomping on incompetent opposition. is a sign of a good defense.

But Wagner is part of a second level of a defense that got those sacks. You mentioned the four guys got two. Jordan Brooks was one of them. Devin Witherspoon was one of them. He had the game of the year, I think any rookie has had on defense. And then Nuoso had the other two. It was just crazy. And they have playmakers on those second level.

And when you're playing the Giants, everyone looks like they have defensive playmakers because they can't block anyone. Yeah, I mean, it was the perfect storm of like, Absolutely celebrating what the Seahawks did, but you are facing a Giants line that already, arguably the worst line in the league, had no Andrew Thomas. They lost their starting center,

John Michael Schmitz in the middle of the game early on, and it just seemed like a fiery, angry boulder rolling downhill because it became almost an absurd sporting event to me to watch. It was like, you're not going to win this game. like you're just simply we're watching daniel jones who is a massive athletic man being punished over and over and it's like every couple seconds another take down another sack and i don't really remember a game like that because this was only one sack away from the NFL record of 12 and

this is a very kind of rare event and it like for the giants i think like you know dan and i were both friends with a ton of giants fans it's like the hope is receding and disappearing with each drive that crumbles into nothingness. There's no explosive plays. And you can criticize Daniel Jones. I don't really because it's like he, yes, he's indecisive. Yes, he's getting nothing done back there, but go find me a quarterback that can survive behind the offensive line as it currently stands for the Giants. Yeah. And you have it's interesting and it's crazy because no one got more praise. And rightfully so the way Brian Daibel took this Giants team from dumpster fire under Joe judge to a really cohesive, strong-willed team that played tough every week.

Even the games of the Giants didn't win last year. Many of them, they were competitive in the losses. They get to the playoffs, didn't it? They got a win in the playoffs. And, you know, this team now a year later, they look, dare I say, poorly coached? Or is it the personnel that's that much worse this year? I don't know. And I think when you saw a great job and it's one of the.

benefits of these primetime games because you have such great coverage and so many cameras and they're capturing everything. So many cutaways to the Giants fans. And just they're stunned. They're angry because this was not supposed to be this season. And I think that's what you're trying to have figure out how this team that with the same coaching staff, when everybody was saying they're on the right track and they're a smart, well coached team that's getting better. Now they look like one of the worst teams in football through four weeks. And I think that's been one of the bigger surprises of the league for me. They had a shot of a fan with a brown paper bag on.

And I think this was such a perfect night for what you were talking about. I don't think Brian Davel is a bad coach. But there was one team in this game that was missing both starting tackles and were playing like late round afterthoughts at tackles and then lost both their starting guards in this game. and won the game 24 to 3. Now, the Seahawks offense was no great shakes in this game either. They missed some opportunities. They didn't top 300 yards. They scored, I guess, 17 points as an offense.

But they looked like they made sense. They had positive plays. They certainly had, you know, a quarterback who wasn't making as many negative plays. But I'm with you, Mark. This wasn't a game that, to me, was on Daniel Jones for the most part. And I'm always happy to blame Daniel Jones for things because when he was at the back of his drop on most of those sacks, the pressure was there. It was instant.

Like his first fumble came from one of the many plays where he avoided a sack. And that was because there was an absolutely free rusher. But it wasn't like a creative defensive blitz. It was Uchena Nuoosu, their edge rusher, who was just completely unblocked and they only rushed four on that play. So it was like a total meltdown and you lose your center at the beginning of the game. That hurts. But I think you can give credit to the Seahawks for like, look, they're making it work, Shane Waldron and making their offense very functional and the Giants can't.

So that's personnel, but that's coaching too. Yeah, I mean, I think there's like you ask as he, is it a Brian Dable thing? I mean, I give him credit for last year. I mean, coaching is human too and like the locker room presence and who he was was like embraced for a lot of good reasons. and he brought results. But right now, they have PFF's 31st ranked offense and defense going into tonight. I don't know what's going to happen to the offense after that.

And I'd argue that the special teams has been equally a huge problem. That's the three things that make up your organization and your success over the course of the campaign. They've been getting, they've scored three points in the entire first quarter in the first quarter all season long. They've been out scored 77 to nine in the first half. So that changes everything you do coming out of half. And like they've had some of the worst quarters we've seen by. any team. And I just like, to me, it's the, it's like the, the, I don't know what to do about this, but these teams should not be treating us on national television. I don't care what time

of a year it is. They're on Sunday night football in two weeks. I know. It's like it's four times and six weeks. And it's, it's not, it's just like, it's for their fans and Jets fans, you know this too. It's just like, it's, we've got to find a solution to this. That's a separate topic, but it, it's just like we're in, we're two quarters into this game. And I'm thinking, this is utterly absurd to put in front of an international audience. It with the, with the two New York teams and it's both of them and it's doubled up and they're both having bad years so far and yeah it's such a beautiful voice new york city and i'm wearing my uh my knickerbockers hat today the new york nix uh the nbae um the yankees are out of the playoffs this year the met's

didn't make it, had one of the more disappointing years ever for their big budget. And the Jets had Aaron Rogers. And then we know what happened there and the Giants. What's happening here? Now we've got to go in all in the Knicks. And I guess the Rangers and whatever major league soccer clubs happen to be in the tri-state area. I'm not overly familiar. You got a WNBA finals team right now, the Liberty versus Tom Brady's aces.

So you stay on top of that, if you can for me and just let me know. Because those flags fly forever as well. That's true. Um, it is, it's so frustrating because, um, like from a New York sports fan perspective, it's been a pretty dark ride in the wilderness for, you know, most of the century, uh, for the New York sports teams and, and for the NFL teams, this was supposed to be like a great, uh, year of growth and maybe even the jets are a potential Super Bowl team and the giants were going to hang in this beastly NFC East. And let's face it, like what I said at the top of the show is, yeah, this feels with their schedule, the way it's, is they have they're in miami next week and i think like you said they got buffalo and sunday night football the the week after that and you know you're staring down the barrel one at five and a good night nurse so bill the giants and dable's got a huge job ahead of him now to try to keep this locker room from not completely uh burning down under all the disappointment and

for the seattle side of things stick a fork in him yeah i i would be willing to stick a fork in the giants at the stage it just had that feeling to me that it's just not going to be their year. And for the Seahawks, you know, they had one really bad loss, Greg, uh, week one against a Rams team that now in retrospect was not nearly, uh, as big, uh, as it seemed at the time because the Rams turned out to be pretty damn feisty this year. Uh, but since then they beat the lions in week two. They took care of business against the Panthers last week. They whipped the giants this week. And now they go to Cincinnati. Uh, and look at you off to a what are you four and oh four no okay well i'm right behind you baby they were an

underdog at the time i think eventually all the the casuals like me kept putting money on them and they became the favorite so and with this pass rush uh against a weak offensive line or a quarterback who's compromised like they're getting next week again joe burrow he he could be a tasty lunch for this defense the way they played today yeah and they get a buy week before that i think that's huge. They're getting into the buy three and one. They've had almost as many injuries as any team in football. So the by week is big for them. They have their offensive linemen. But the pass rush and the defense in general has come along. And Pete Carroll defenses, even throughout this six or seven years of mediocrity, usually start out terrible. There's actually DVOE stats about

this where September, they're always bottom five. And then they improve and they end up being average. usually end up being a little better than average down the stretch. And I think there's a very real reason for it this year. It's their two cornerbacks. Rieck Willen missed a couple weeks. He was back in there today, almost had an interception himself. And then Devin Witherspoon, that's one of the best games I've ever seen out of a cornerback ever. Forget a rookie quarterback.

I love that, Greg, hyperbole. It's back, baby. I mean, it was just fun to watch. I know, like, it wasn't all in coverage. You'd have to go watch all the coverage snaps. But in terms of just making plays on the ball with those sacks, those instinctual plays on one that was going to be a trick play where Paris Campbell was going to throw it and he recognized it immediately. And some of the tackles were just crazy. That's not what you think of when you think of a cornerback.

But Devin Witherspoon is just a playmaker. And even in his first game, I said he was the main character of the game and it was like a lot bad and some good. He's just like he pops off the screen. He was incredible last week. he was even better this week, and he seems the embodiment of whatever Pete Carroll wants in a defender. He's Seattle all the way. I feel like a lot of Weatherspoon jerseys were sold tonight. I also like that from a broadcasting angle, because you're right, he popped off the screen that Troy Aikman had a major win because before the 97-yard pick six occurred, he mentioned

Weatherspoon like probably six or seven times. At one point he said he reminds me of another 21 that I know, Dion Sanders with his bravado. It's like he kept propping him up and then bang the pick six happen and like the announcer's booth was relatively quiet. And you're like, you know that Aikman's up there just being like, yes, yes. I nailed that. Gino Smith, quiet game statistically and he left this game for a series and shout out Drew Locke came in connected with no offense on a catch and run that really put the game

in control for Seattle for about a 50 yard gain. I like that taunting penalty, Gino God. He is speaking of feisty. He's feisty as well. I think he got admonished by Troy, by the way, for that, which is like you're the quarterback. You've got to be a little more under control. But I didn't mind it, Greg.

I thought Gino shown a little fire. He didn't like the hit that led to his injury on the sideline. And in general, seemed to have an issue with some of the Giants defenders. Well, yeah, I think there was a question whether that was a late hit or a dirty hit. I started just as he was going on. of bounds and then really continued and rolled up. And so he was angry about that. And I think the reason he was so mad, and this is just a guess.

They didn't guess on the broadcast was Tyler Lockett got hit in a very similar fashion, just as he was going out of bounds right when Gino came back in. And it was that play where he ended up getting the penalty. And yeah, they didn't need much out of him. He actually made a couple really nice plays moving inside the pocket. But I felt like every nice play he made or that they were making was getting called back by penalty. I mean, they were sloppy as hell on offense. And that's the thing where you're watching this game and you're thinking, man, if the Giants could either make some big plays defensively

or had any sort of an offense, Seattle was leaving the door open, especially in the first half of this game for the Giants to show up because they were just making so many mental errors. And the giants just weren't ready. I mean, it could have been a, if Eli, if Daniel Jones doesn't throw the pick six, they're at the five yard line there. You got a touchdown and go for two. It's a three-point game going into the fourth quarter. So that was obviously a massive game-ending swing, the pick six. The only person probably not smiling connected to the Seahawks tonight is Jamal Adams, who finally returned.

This was actually tough to see just because it reminded me when he, you know, he had his great moments with the Jets. Things got ugly. He gets traded there. And it's been a pretty rough ride after that first season when he had all those sacks. And he finally gets on the field after missing like a year and a half about a year and a quarter. And on the first series, he gets kneed in the helmet by Daniel Jones, uh, clearly woozy. It was the right move to pull him out of the game. The independent

specialist on the sideline ruled him out and he has words with them and it seemed to be had to be separated from the independent neurologist, which I feel like is a first. I don't think I've ever seen like that situation play out before. Uh, so that was a bit of a bummer to see. And then my, my final, uh, takeaway on this rather mundane game, uh, is, I did a double screen watch on this one. I came back to the Manningast for the first time in quite a while. It was very, it was delightful. I just, it's such a great product.

And I'm going to continue to two screen it for the rest of the season. They even had Will Ferrell on and that was nice. And even our NFL media colleague, Sean O'Hara, stepped in and made a joke about Eli putting his hands between his legs, that old center corner vacuumer. Fun stuff. You love that. Waka, Waka. Anything else?

I'm the Manning cast. I love the Manning cast. I think, like, others have tried to duplicate versions of it, and you can't. But I would say this. What, you mean like us on our NFL Plus Monday show? I would point to that is something that I'm hoping we're not trying to duplicate what they're doing. No, we're doing a recap. Today's one with Colts Rams was a delight for the senses.

No, we're trying something completely in. intellectually disingenuous to say that our Monday stream is not somewhat, not modeled after it, but, you know, visually it would be a striking coincidence. And it's, it's just there's something really to me almost wholesome about the two brothers just kind of watching this game and seeing how they interact with each other and talk about the game as two kind of famous quarterbacks, one of a legendary star and one, even though Greg will try to stop it, who will go into the Hall of Fame one day, just a great program. well i think uh both of them i saw a clip going around of them just kind of admiring and in a real quarterbacky way gino smith like play action fakes like Peyton manning who was just like the master of the play action fake was just like oh gino like he has been going to play action fake school and it is one of the things i like about gino he's good at all the the subtle stuff like a hundred and ten yards today i mean if there was ever a night to pipe down just a tad maybe even three to four percent on this topic i mean he goes back to new york and wins a game

petero goes to new york and wins literally no one cares about that but you there is no going back to the giants to win a game it's not a thing did seem testy against the giants though tonight seem to be something there a little he was he was he was somebody tried to give him a double acel tear on a tackle on the sideline he's yeah that i i hope that this isn't something that you hear afterwards that they do test and mri and ends up turning into something more like a a sprain that keeps him out. The by week seems well-timed. A couple of quick last things.

Just like the Giants attempted two passes over 10 yards. They attempted to. That's not, that's insane for the amount of dropbacks that Daniel Jones had, 34 plus the 11 sacks. So that's plus the scrambles. He dropped back almost 50 times and he didn't have time to throw up more than 10 yards down the field. That's a catastrophe. By the way, speaking of the Manningast, Tennessee alum, Peyton,

Manning losing his mind that they're not even finding any way to get Jalen Hyatt involved, the guy who's an absolute playmaker. Just, just a nightmare evening. It's a mess. It's hard to get Hyatt involved, though, when, I mean, I don't know, tonight especially, your quarterback's got half of a second, half of a millimeter to throw the ball. I like, I don't. If they do, you'd have good coaching. There, there, there, there's a way to clean this stuff up during the week. It's going to be a huge test for Dable and the entire coach of the year platform. Let's be honest. Well, let's be real.

Coach of the year, I said how defense matters a lot in terms of the schedule you play. I think if you looked at old coach of the year winners, I think schedule matters a lot. We've had some Dick Jorans and Matt Nagy's and just guys that get to 11 wins off of a weird schedule. One tiny fly in the ointment for the C-Ox is I've been noticing this year. The last one for me is just Jackson Smith and Jigba. They tried to get them involved six targets, five yards. A drop. We get excited about the rookie watchers.

in the open field. Sometimes it doesn't happen. Yeah, and so many receivers have come into the league. Mark, you smartly mentioned Michael Wilson today. So many receivers come to the league flying and they've really struggled to get any production or anything going from. And I think they really tried tonight and it just, it wasn't happening. That's like the eighth summer long narrative that we based it ourselves in. I did on the Jackson Smith and Jigba thing. And it's not panning out. I don't know if maybe we should be, you know, put in a box in the summer because it's just, it's becoming embarrassing. We will a couple of years. a couple years we'll just shut it down for the summer see in September everybody big old wave um all right that's it uh for for this game uh let's now pivot now and get you caught up to date on all of the news i kind of like that as a segment i feel like i brought it up and then we never actually do it because it doesn't sound overly pleasant but i feel like an october check-in and what we were most wrong about um in terms of what we were talking about ceaselessly in august and into September, things that surprised us. That could be something. The Steelers offense is up there. They are dead last in any paper play. I was buying it too, almost anything that happened in the preseason now that I'm thinking about it.

Like, CJ Stroud was the quarterback people were worried about. Everyone's thrilled about Dorian Thompson Robinson. It's so much better. I'm getting with you. The final weeks of your summer, just savor them. Me standing on the table in the fantasy spectacular as my one main thing to draft Damien Pierce. I guess it looks a little better after this last week.

I'm not totally giving up, but that. Look, the Steelers can still win 12 games. I'm not completely, that's not completely lost. The door is not closed. The door is not closed. Let's do some news. The door is not speaking of the Steelers. Pivot.

Did that. That was pro. That was good. Kenny Pickett suffered a knee injury in that, uh, dreadful loss, uh, this week to the Texans. Wow. look at all these things tying together um and it seemed like a bad injury at the time but here's the

good news uh rap sheet reports that picket has a bone bruise in his knee uh could miss week five against the ravens um it's also a muscle strain according to rapaport uh but he's it's in play that he could be on the field this week uh but they have a buy in week six so there's a pretty decent chance we're going to see mitch trabisky um this weekend uh but But also a pretty decent chance, unless Mitch Trubisky balls out, that Kenny Pickett will be back on the field as opposed to a worst case scenario, which seemed in play when he went down on Sunday. It's like the inverse scenario from a year ago where we were waiting and knowing that Mitch Trubisky would have essentially at some point be benched or injured or removed from the lineup. And you come into this season with these glowing reports of Kenny Pickett that I fell for. a complete rube based off of July action and August action.

And he's not looked apart. And so I have to question, like, if there were no injury or no injury, like, would it be on a leash? Because I thought that Tomlin's comments after that game were very Mike Tomlin. It was just like, yeah, major changes could be coming and really no one's safe. And it's like, I think that when you say that, you're not talking about your left defensive tackle. You're talking about the quarterback situation. I think you're right. I think Mitch Trubisky.

is an upgrade. The smallest hill I'll ever die on is that Mitch Rubisky when he came back in for the Steelers last year played pretty well. It's very similar to my Andy Dalton was sneaky good for the Saints last year, which is another one that I feel like it's actually... This is like an Anhill, right?

Yeah, it is, but it's aging okay. Because, like, Derek Carr looks a hell of a lot like Andy Dalton or worse right now in that offense. I was just like, I'm just saying, it's not a good situation. I think Chubisky could be an upgrade on what Pickett is now. Now, how much of it is just the offense is totally broken? Pickett's taken a huge step back from where Pickett was, even as a rookie.

I mean, that's not even arguable. He's really struggling. So I think Chubisky has been around could be an upgrade. And if he plays well enough, I think Tomlin is, I guess, I don't know what the word is practical enough that he would keep Chubisky in. Blame Canada. In other news. the cults, they're inch and toward getting Jonathan Taylor back on the field.

Shane Stuyck and we're pivoting now to talking the team of Zeus T.L. Who were covered with great fanfare along with the Los Angeles Rams on NFL Plus in our ATN game of the week, which is, um, what is the word? It is a feast for the senses? No, I'm saying like it is, it is a show that is indebted to the Manning cast, but also. cast its own shadow. How about that? It's not derivative. Right. We're not visually familiar. Right. It's it's like a two and a half hour shorter. There's not a live game that we're watching. Anyway, we did Rams cults. Check that out on NFL plus. Great

game. Shane Steichen the coach of the cult said there's a chance Jonathan Taylor could be on the field at week five against the Titans. Of course, he started league the season on the Pup list with an ankle injury that may or may not still be a thing. Everything, of course, is connected to a very gnarly contract dispute between Taylor and management. The Colts opened up the 21-day practice window, which means they have three weeks to kind of get him onto the field. And it does seem like that could happen as soon as this week.

Steichen said there could be, yeah, when asked about the chances. that he plays Sunday. So that's great news for the cults. And I like Zach Moss, but he's not, he's not Jonathan Taylor. I'm shocked. I mean,

I was not expecting this because he, I want to hear from Jonathan Taylor first, actually, before I get too excited about it. Jonathan Taylor has not spoken to the media since July, I believe. That's fair. We haven't really known what's going on,

but I just was expecting this to stay as ugly as possible. And if they get him back, I mean, this division's wide open. To that point, Greg, the reporting out there as recently as last week was that Taylor was still digging in his heels. So maybe either that was erroneous reporting or something had changed between then and now. But it's certainly, listen, Taylor has as frustrated as he is, Mark, he has a reason to get back on the field as well because he is playing trying to get paid at some point and just disappearing for the whole year. is not going to work for him at all. So I guess it makes sense.

This tells me like two things. One that the Colts, who didn't seem like too hot on trading him or doing anything with him and like you got ownership sort of just digging in their heels, as you say. Like there were no major trade offers that ever came even behind the scenes.

So he's not able to go anywhere else. And if he doesn't play or if he's not physically able to perform by week six, then he loses an accrued year on his rookie contract. and he's not a free agent after this season. So I think he's, you know, I don't know how he's being, you know, guided by his agent and stuff,

but I think there'd be a massive motivation to get back on the field, finish out the season if you have nowhere, if you can't go anywhere else, and then go to free agency. I mean, they're not going to franchise him with this situation. A lot of motivation, too, I think, because he heard that I took him in my running back draft, and they were like, wow, Mark and Dan really made fun of my guy Greg

for taking me and command. Mara and Bijon in the running back draft. I want to prove Greg right. That's just what do they call it when they put the pig on the thing and it spins with the apple on them out? Is that a spit roast? That was Greg. Yeah.

That was Greg when we did the running back draft. Just the tough. Not from us even, Greg. A lot of the criticism coming from outside, uh, the walls of your fortress. Well, it was put up to a, you didn't get that right. There was a public poll. I mean, you can blame the two of us, but like the, the public largely weighed in and they deemed the results.

not the two of us. Oh, yeah. I mean, you got to trust the public. We should probably stop honking. They always make the best decisions in elections. Forget about it. We should probably stop honking and check who we all drafted and see where that is. Eric Roberts behind the virtual glass.

Can you check in on that and get us that info at some point? Also heading back to the field for week five, Desmond Ritter, the Atlanta Falcons quarterback who has struggled through much of the field. this season and really did not do himself any favors in London and a in a tough loss to the Jaguars it's led to a lot of heat around Arthur Smith to make a change of QB but Smith is standing by his guy here is Smith's comments on the situation this is a follow-up you did is Desmond still your starter just to be clear my court look absolutely and I wouldn't be sitting there and get on that pontificating about what went on the game if we're making a change

right right now but you know and we saw what happened on the sidelines with mac hollins which is actually even worse when you watched it on replay where he missed hollins and then he went to dapp him up and hollins gave him a look like are you even kidding me right now bro he's losing that locker room and and smith risks losing the locker room as well so this is i would think guys that this is this is it for desmond ritter in terms of play well this week or you're going to take it almost out of smith's hands because he knows he'll have to make the chance to stave off a revolt. That's kind of how these things tend to go. Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is, like, if you get a coach or an organization that's, like, sold or bought into, like, draft pedigree, well, he doesn't have that. It's, it, there wasn't much,

there's not a lot of stakes in Desmond Ritter. Outside the fact that, you know, we got glowing remarks from the owner and the coach all offseason, and we've gotten, it's fair to give him a test, and he's failing, and he's letting the team down a pretty talented roster.

And I just think it's like, if you had no one behind him, like when we talk about Pauline Burrow, and I'm really with you on the concept of why they might do that. It's like, the problem with him is they've got nothing behind them. But Taylor Heineke, just literally a year ago, came in around midseason and brought a little bit of life. He's not, he's imperfect. I get it, but he brought some juice and some energy to the commanders, and he's the same guy. And it's like, I think Taylor Heineke and this offense is almost a must watch sooner than later. And it's, they're a weird team because they didn't take a buy after London. They have to go.

right back and face the Texans. And it's like, I wonder if there was a buy and they had more time to marinate in this that maybe they make a change, or do we just need one more terrible ridder start? And that's because of them. They request that. Usually there is a buy.

The only reason they wouldn't have a buy is they say, we don't want it then. And now they face a team that, I'll save it for Wednesday, but this team's kind of entering my heart. Just saying, maybe it's entering the whole group. Stick a pin in it, Greg. Yeah, I like that.

Let's go through some other injuries. from around the league coming out of Sunday. Tough, tough, really one of the worst Sundays in recent memory for the Patriots, the worst blowout of the Belichick era, and their two best young defensive players go out with injuries. Matthew Judon is out indefinitely with a biceps injury. It's a lower bicep tendon tear. He's going to miss multiple weeks.

He could land on injured reserve, so it's kind of a wait and see when they get Judon back if they get him at all. Also, Christian Gonzalez, who's really immediately stepped in and become kind of a stud cornerback for this team. He went down awkwardly on his shoulder, and he is out indefinitely with a shoulder injury. With this also, we don't know exactly how long he's going to be out, but indefinitely is never what you want to hear. And this is the defensive player of the month last weekend as a rookie.

So double setback, Gregie, and it's kind of coming from all sides for Belichick right now. This is the biggest, you know, most unique test of Belichick, I think, since he's been in New England in terms of his job security. Now, there was a minute when they were 0 and 2 in 2001. They were already chattering about it a little bit in Boston because he started 5 and 11, then 0 and 2. But this is everything happening all at once. They do have the softest part of their schedule coming up. In theory, it's such a hard schedule, but they have the Saints and the Raiders. But the Saints are the Raiders are also looking at the Patriots and being like, ooh, we got a soft part of our schedule coming up as the Patriots.

Yeah, it's a defensive built team, which I innately don't trust that lost Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, Jonathan Jones, everyone with the last name of Jones. You've now lost Gonzalez. Judon had 32 sacks and 35 games as a really good, you know, free agent pickup. But this is their identity and they're losing it piece by piece. And like that offense under duress is an eyesore. It's possibly they're two best players of the team, Judon and Gonzalez right now. That's great.

Not good. Not good. other injury news rap sheet reports that justna herbert broke a finger on his non-throwing hand in that week four win over the radar raiders he not a pleasant thing but the idea is that it is not a serious injury they have a buy in week five which is ideal a few of the week five your cleveland browns mark another team that perfectly timed by for them as well with their quarterback dealing with some health issues so he gets two weeks before the cowboys on Monday night football and we'll see where he is by then. I would imagine that he will play.

And I just want to give a shout out to Justin Herbert because I did talk about earlier in the season, you know, wanting to see him with those big dagger plays to put teams away and take his team to the finish line. And we kind of glossed over it a little bit, just a beautiful deep strike on third and 10 to put that game away after the Asante Samuel Bazaar step out of bounds after the interception late in that game. So that was a money. throw from a banged up Herbert and you love to see it and they're back to 500 and hopefully they'll have them on the field when they play again. Also out, Taran Armstead, the dolphins left tackle. He will not play in week five against the Giants. This is an injury plagued player,

but a great player when he's on the field. McDaniel said that he believes that Armstead will play again this season, but this seems like a week to week injury. When you say they're going to play again this season that always is very concerning especially for a player that i feel like is an injury or two away from you know wondering if this is worth it because he he's crazy on the injury report they list taran armstead with like four different injuries i've never seen it before it's like knee ankle shoulder what it's like a bunch of different things and this one seems serious it sounded like it just reading between the lines that it's probably month or month at least and they're not the same without them yeah it was such a

It, I mean, it was, you know, vague in terms of any sort of timeline. He had left knee surgery in the offseason. You're right. He's always banged up. And they were so different without him a year ago. And it just, it, it, it, it, you just wonder how many people they can lose on the offensive line. And like, he is sort of a jenga piece for them.

They have Kendall Lamb, kind of a quality player, but Tehran Armstead is sort of irreplaceable. Uh, other injury news. We saw this coming and you heard from the comments from Sean McDermott that it was, not good news around Tradavis White, but the veteran cornerback did indeed suffer torn Achilles in the Bills as week four win over those dolphins. So his season is over. He's now suffered season ending injuries in two of his last three years. He torn ACL in 2021. So you lose an all pro and that team got worse and they have to find a way to make it work without him. Do they have the dogs to back them up, Gregie?

I mean, they have a first round pick, Kyrie Ulam, who's been a healthy, scratch at points this season that they could really use to step up. No, I would say cornerback was one of the thinnest positions on their team. They have Toronto Johnson, who's a good slot corner. Christian Benford is this late round pick from a year ago who stepped up and has been solid. But that's one of their thinner spots and poyers injured. It's something to attack if your buffalo or plain buffalo.

And guess what? The trade deadline is a little less than one month away. And we talked about it. Mark, you and I were in lockstep on it entering the season, the urgencies through the roof for this Bill's team, this core. If you think you need it, go get it. Go use some draft capital and add some depth to that secondary if need be. So that feels like a potential area. Giants could be sellers.

Adori Jackson is a guy on their team who I feel like could still have some good football in them. Might be available. Is this year of the GM? Are we doing an epa, you have the GM? All right. Let's do that later this month. Yeah. And just button up a couple other things.

So Chase Claypool, you know the drama there about the wide receiver traded for the number 32 overall pick just last year at the trade deadline, buyer beware. And now because of comments he's made in general lack of effort at other times on the field and just being a knucklehead has fallen out of favor with the bears. And then some weird messaging because everything with the bears is just a little. messed up these days or a lot messed up where Iber Fluse first kind of let the media know that it was the teams or is the player's decision not to be at the Broncos game and then it was clarified that it was the team's decision and Iber Fluse said Monday that Claypool will remain away from the team ahead of the week five matchup, but the commanders hear something from Fluse. To correct the record for Chase Claypool, we did tell him, you know, not to be.

here for the weekend, including the game. We told him he to be an active on Saturday. You know, and this morning we informed him that he's not going to be here this week for the game as well. And we just feel that's best for the team at this time. So again, Ryan and I have informed him of that, and that's where it is. So we just feel that's the best for the team right now. Ryan is Ryan Poles, the GM, who is probably having nightmares about that trade. which I think there are, you know, I think you could say the, the San Francisco trade for Trey Lance is maybe the worst trade of the decade so far or near the top, the Russell Wilson trade. The returns are not are dreadful.

We mentioned Jamal Adams. That trade was not great for the Seahawks. But when you just look at what they got, what they gave up, even in the moment, it was like, that's a little rich for a guy that has been a little spotty as a player. And now what it's turned into, which is a three ring circus, one of the worst. grades of the decade right near the top of the list for me anyway. Yeah, I'd throw some of the cults transactions for various failed veteran quarterbacks over the past couple of years that didn't go well.

But I mean, I'm watching Iber flus during that thing. And it's just like sometimes as you get higher and higher up in management, in this case, it's like you're going up the food chain. And it's like, yeah, it's not so bad to be a coordinator where no one's asking me the tough questions. You got to see. I mean, just watching his body language, having to go up and deliver like a essentially an editorial retraction i mean it's just an uncomfortable situation didn't look good didn't feel good no like

that that's a tough scene i mean claypool this probably goes without saying but he gone he'll be created for i'm going to put the over under on a 2024 6th i'm going to say additional just a conditional 7th okay i have a prediction where he goes okay because there was reports from ian over the weekend that one team like that i mean i'm sure there's others but we're very active actively looking for wide receivers, which was the Carolina Panthers. So maybe they think they can bring that guy in there. I'm not saying it's a magical lever pull, just that I think that I could see a one team that's desperate for help.

The guy, that is a team that needs talent, but do they need like a cancer in their locker room, which I get the vibes, Claypool? Because I don't think he, I don't think Mike Tomlin was a huge fan of Chase Claypool, uh, the, the person either. So I don't think. any team is saying, you know, what we really need is a cancer to destroy our locker room. So I mean, it sort of comes as a surprise. The Panthers, it's like, that's a little bit of a sensitive situation with a rookie there and stuff.

I wouldn't do it, but, you know. I mean, the, you mentioned crazy trades. Like, they put the graphic up tonight when you saw the old lock to Fant touchdown. By the way, I'm still here in the, uh, the Chris Wessling podcast studio. When Noah Fant was going down the sideline, I was remembering our friend Chris going wild for a little Noah Fant catching passes from Drew Locke back when they were in Denver. I once wrote an article. I love Drew Locke.

But they got Drew Locke, Noah Fant, Shelby Harris, in the number five overall pick who turned into Devin Witherspoon. Boom. And then they, what a trade. What a trade. How about that? Yeah, when Devin Witherspoon's playing like he played tonight, that's going to quiet all the Jalen Carter stuff as well,

if they nailed that pick. All right. Finally in the news, did not see this coming. Nobody was tracking this. Jameson Williams was totally off the radar after his gambling suspension. But the league amended its gambling policy on Friday in a news dump. And it led to Williams having his suspension changed by nature of the new wording to the policy. He's a first time offender caught betting on a non-NFL game from inside team facilities.

So that suspension now with the rules it was six. Now it's two. And he's already missed four. kind of sucks. But the good news is he's now activated and he's and he's part of the team and everyone wants to see what happens with Jameson Williams in this offense because, you know, he's probably the most physically gifted wide receiver on that team. It's just now. What is his role? Like what kind of player is he as a professional? Because his rookie year was mostly compromised by rehab from a knee injury and finding his way. I know this is tempting, Mark, but because

we do work for the NFL, but I think it's different for league employees. And so your plans to go to the Chargers facility tomorrow in Costa Mesa and start wagering on cricket, you know, a non-NFL sport. Don't do it. Don't do it. Can't do it. We need you. Foolish. It would be foolish, Mark. That's great. Counsel. I'll follow that. I know we have an off date tomorrow. I do feel in a way, because like the whole point of this was like to try to raise awareness among players. It's like, I didn't know this rule or that rule. It's like, okay, why did they need to announce this now? And maybe it's just like they went through the process, they came up with their results,

and here we go. But it brings these players, and Jameson Williams primarily onto a sexy team, back into our world where you can spend two games telling us why he's back and why the policies change and all the players see it and hear about it. And they found a way to double down on awareness for an issue that they don't want hanging around NFL locker rooms. So it's like you don't have to wait till next off season for like four more like, you know, dingleberries to do the same thing and get caught and fine.

You know, there were like these rash of fines. Now it's like, let's get into everyone's head that this is the rule. And like this was a great way to do it in the middle of the season when everyone's talking about these players and this whole entire thing. Counterpoint, roll out the policy in a clean way in the off season. And then everybody knows what the situation is. And a guy like Jameson Williams is back in week three instead of week five. Counterpoint, this guy, Mark Sessler, gets it and he used Dingleberry in a big spot.

One guy that didn't get it. I don't know if we've touched on this on this show was Greg Rosenthal, the ATN running back straff back in June. Let's take a look at that graphic. See where we're at now. Now that we're in October. Okay. Check it out on YouTube. Mark, I recall having the first overall pick, which is an immense advantage for the Sestog.

And he had Christian McCaffrey, Sequin Barclay, Derek Henry, and Romandre Stevenson. Dan had, actually, I think Greg had the second pick, as I recall. And he took Bejohn Robinson, Alvin Kamara, Jonathan Taylor, and Aaron Jones. And then Dan took Nick Chubb, Austin Echler, Josh Jacobs, and Brees Hall. It's kind of interesting, boys, that is anybody doing? I don't think there's a runaway winner. No, there's a lot of. unavailable players is is this oh no is this like going to be used in negotiations against running

backs because i'm not seeing a lot of major values here i think mark wins because he's the one that has mcalfrey and right bison's been great bejohn's been great i've been undercut by injuries to chub and and eckler unfortunately and jacobb was finally did something and hall has had moments but he got erin rogers so that was there's a tough one i stand by my draft but real football had a harsh reality call for my group. I wouldn't put this back out on Twitter slash X or wherever to gain new opinions on this. Bary it. All right, good stuff.

We will be out of your hair for a day. But don't worry. We'll be back on Wednesday with another Epp, another NFL Plus EP Thursday, Thursday, a week five preview, TNF Recap, a lot of good stuff coming your way. Thanks for hanging around. He'd the call. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here.

And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant.

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