NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Sean Payton Steps away from Saints; Rams Talk with Jourdan Rodrigue

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, Gregg Rosenthal and Colleen Wolfe bring you all of the latest news in the NFL including Saints Head Coach Sean Payton stepping away from the Saints, Tom Brady potentially retiring and another ride on the "personnel carousel". The Athletics Jourdan Rodrigue joins the show to talk about who her favorite ATN hero is and why the Rams are connected to dark mystic art. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast. Wishes it were the Split Ends podcast. That's putting me in a good spot. Feels like a reach.

Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. I'm Dan Hansis. I come to you from a virtual room filled with some heroes. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal. And yes, you just heard her voice sheepishly trying to duck out of the money tag. It's the great Colleen, Wolf, Connie Fox, the tiny box. She's back. Yo, great to see you guys.

Tugboat. How you doing? Did you get a sound drop yet for the boat? Do we have the drop, Ricky? Maybe we'll add it in post. You put it on a spot there. considering she is your co-host on the Split-Ens podcast to put her on the spot and make her producing seem subpar interesting play there.

I like it. I'm just pushing her to get better, to be better. We should all push ourselves to be better. That's a good friend. It's a good quality and a friend. And that's the kind of friend that you seem to appear to be. Since we haven't had you, Connie, on the show in a few weeks, I want to give you the opportunity to share your feelings about the legendary quarterback

Tom Brady on the eve of his possible retirement. Oh. I love Tom Brady. Love you, bro. Wait, what was that? Love you, Tom. I love Tom Brady.

Love you, bro. Do you love Tom Brady? Share it. I love the way that he plays, but, you know, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if he decided to hang it up

and spend some time with his family and his production company, whatever he has going on. I mean, I don't know. Honestly, if I'm being completely serious, I think that we're going to look back at this era of football and Tom Brady and be like, oh, my God, I can't believe we covered him at the height of his powers. And he's been so good and such a staple.

And taking him for granted is a really easy thing to do. But also, it's Tom Brady, and it's also very easy to hate on him because he's so good. And because no one else has ever reached what he's been able to do. So I don't know. Well, you know who doesn't take them for granted. You gave me a surprisingly serious answer. Right. A guy by the name of Bill Cowher.

Bill Cowher appreciates every moment. Love you, bro. And I think you should be a little more concerned with Bill Cowers' emotions if Tom Brady does retire. That's who I'm worried about. It's typically, yeah. It's more like middle-aged white men in football media or retired coaches that seem to truly fall for Tom in a perhaps romantic. way. And maybe Tom, if he does retire, maybe he goes and takes some time out and moves from

Tampa to Miami. Maybe. I understand where you were going with this. Do you want to team me up one more time? Yeah. What do you think about Tom Brady? Do you want to share any feelings about the man the way others have? I love you, Tom. That's what you're looking for, right? We're going to get to Tom Brady. And what's going on with Brady? It's the start of a saga that I still believe in my heart is going to stretch over not days or weeks, but years. This is step one. Longtime player begins to Mull retirement. It becomes a story every winter for about two to three years. Then becomes a reality. Could be wrong, though. This could be it for Tom Brady. We shall see. But today's show is a good one because we're going to get to

Jordan Rodriguez of the athletic who covers the Rams and is going to give us a bit of a deep dive on where the Rams are at, both in terms of their journey and where they're at mentally. It's a very interesting team when you start kind of peeling back the layers of the players that are at the center of this, the coaching staff. Obviously, the coaching staff has some major demons to slay here with Kyle Shanahan and his six-game winning streak. Greg, I feel like if Kyle Shanahan defeats Sean McVeigh for a seventh consecutive time for the NFC championship, that is the type of bragging rights

that no boy genius comes back from. I don't think McVeigh survives it emotionally. There's a lot on the line there. Well, their friendship certainly doesn't. If they are even still friends, I feel like nothing's rational. as false as Kyle Shanahan trying to say that him and Matt Lafleur are still friends, too, after he tried to go get Aaron Rogers last off season. There's no greater revenge, though,

than Kyle Shanahan just destroying assistant after assistant of his old. It's like, I made you, and I'm still better than you. Yeah, for sure. So we'll, uh, we'll get into, uh, the Rams with Jordan. We're going to hit a bunch of news, but before we get into any of the other Brady stuff or anything else going on in the league, we got to talk about the huge story that broke on Tuesday. Sean Payton and the Saints are no more. Let's get into the news. Hey, coach. Mr. Goodall is on the phone?

Roger Goodall is on the phone. The commissioner. He didn't say what his job was. Stunning news? Perhaps not stunning because there were some breadcrumbs along the way over the last several days. But Sean Payton's story run of the Saints is over. Rap Sheet originally reported it on Tuesday that Peyton was stepping down as head coach of the Saints, 58 years old, leaves the team, 60 plus games over 500, nine postseason wins, a coach of the year

award, a Super Bowl title. And now he is stepping away. He had a press conference on Tuesday, explaining where he's at headspace-wise, as everyone speculates what happens next. I still have a vision for doing things in football, and I'll be honest with you, that might be coaching again at some point. I don't think it's this year. I think maybe in the future, but that's not where my heart is right now. It's not at all. Peyton also addressed some of the speculation, rampant speculation, that he might get into the media. Let's hear that as well.

I don't know what's next. I'm not spoken to anyone from a media outlet relative to. doing television or radio maybe maybe that opportunity arises i think i'd like to do that i think it'd be pretty good at it all right so connie let's let's start the conversation this way i as i saw this unfold this morning i couldn't stop thinking what a brilliant personnel personal maneuver this is for sean peyton because i do buy the idea that after a very tough season he's been doing the job forever maybe this was his time he's he's seen other his other the coach as he's looked up to a Parcells for existence, for instance, who stepped back for a year

or two and then got back in. He gets to now get out, take whatever job he wants in the football sphere or do nothing. And then when he does decide to get back in, he will become the hottest head coach property in the NFL in some time. It feels like it sets up well, but we don't even know if he's coming back. Your thoughts on all this news. What a life, what an option to have in life to be Sean Payton in this very position. He was in Cabo, went radio silent on a bunch of people, and then decided, you know what, I'm going to step away from this organization

that I've been linked to and loved by the fans for so long because he can basically take an NFL sabbatical. Like Bruce Ariens has done it too in the past. And we've seen coaches do this. And I wonder if it's just because, you know, maybe he's reached that burnout phase. We saw what happened this year. when he didn't have a Hall of Fame quarterback,

went through four different quarterbacks. I think that being a head coach in the NFL is stressful in and of itself just in a regular year. And then you add in all of the layers with COVID. And then they had the hurricane that misplaced them at the beginning of the year too. So there were just so many things that added probably to the stress and anxiety of the job. And so for him to be able to have this as an option is, is great for him.

And I thought the press conference in general, he was so thoughtful. He was so sincere and so genuine. And it was kind of surreal to watch him say goodbye and watch him step aside. And I did love the fact that there were so many stories that he told and thanked so many people. And you could tell that he really did think about this ahead of time.

He even said that he Googled at one point how to not cry during a speech and that the Google machine told him to drink water. And I was wondering. He Googled that? Yeah. And I was wondering at one point why he was just furiously slamming bottles of water back during this press conference. He would stop and just all of a sudden start shugging water. And so that made a whole lot of sense. But I just thought that his empathy towards the media and covering the NFL during this time with all the protocols. And he was just, he came off as the person that I really wanted him to be in the situation. Yeah, I want to get to his future next, but quickly, like, it is a day for him to reflect. The press conference is still going on as we talk. It actually might still be going on by the time you hear this.

It could just continue, but he's got a lot to talk about. Like, this 16-year run ranks with, you know, the great coaching runs. I mean, he's not Lombardi or Belichick, but I think he's a Hall of Fame coach. And I think the place where he took over this franchise to where they went immediately, that 06 team is one of the most magical non-super Bowl teams to me ever. Reggie Bush, who he mentioned a couple of times, really changed that franchise. It's hard to remember what a big deal getting Reggie Bush was just in terms of putting them on the front page of the newspaper, selling tickets, all this stuff.

And it's been an incredible journey. But he said going into this year, he was thinking about it, going into training camp, that this might be his last year. And I think he did a great job. He showed his value this year. Their offense, you know, quietly, if you kind of look at the analytics behind, it was like pretty decent considering the disastrous quarterback an injury situation that he had.

He joked how he tried to get Drew Brees to play again this year. And after watching the Dolphins game, they talked again. And they were happy that Drew didn't come back because that would have not been fun for Drew Brees to be behind. So I think you said it well, Dan. And, like, he's 58 years old, which, you know, I guess is getting up there in life terms. But in NFL coaching terms, it's still pretty young. I mean, he's 10 years.

Right. He's 10 years younger. Ariens is 70. And he's going to be in a position in one year. And once they asked, once he allowed questions and they got a little more specific about it, you know, he made it pretty clear this year's off for coaching. He wants to do media. And then it sounds like he'll be throwing his hat back into the coaching ring. And you would think at that time the Saints actually might try to get him to coach for them again

because they have his contract and that's where it gets interesting. They can get compensation for him. But he mentioned how, you know, Gail Benson and I'd be worried as a Saints fan considering the history of this ownership when Sean Payton hasn't been there about what's going to happen next. And Gail Benson said, how about you just come back in camp? You can like have the whole off season off and like come back in camp and coach us. So it's like whenever he wants to come back, if it's a year or two years, the first thing they'll do is just probably try to get that.

If anything, they might just try to keep the seat warm with Dennis Allen and then, like, replace them. They've already had one bad decision, and it hasn't even happened yet, telling the head coach he could take the summer off. What do you got to say on this, Mark? What I found the most delicious about this as it was sort of unfolding on Twitter, and I agree that I don't think it was shocking because there were like more and more sort of becoming more trenchant concerns and reports about the fact that this isn't just him with his phone on. off on vacation. This is him genuinely considering his future. But what I loved was the fact that, you know, it reminded me when I was in, um, in sixth grade in middle school, there was this power couple, um, if you can be powerful at that age. Sixth grade. Terry, in sixth grade, Terry Hall. And you could be powerful in sixth grade.

Right. Terry Hall and Jen Verilla. They were both, um, essentially the like the hottest guy and the hottest girl dating. And they had a stunning breakup in about April or May, just as the spring was starting and couples all over the school like girls all over the school were dumping the lower level guys that they were with and the same was happening in reverse because there was just a chance that maybe you'd have a chance to get with Terry Hall or Jen Verilla and every single fan base was thinking yeah our coach is okay but if we can get this guy F our coach and like it's it's all centered around Mike McCarthy because there's been rumors forever that you know the cowboys obviously love Sean Payton I'll never forget

in 2019, sitting at the owner's meetings at the Saints table waiting for Peyton, and he rolled up with a little leather briefcase saying, this is my new contract in here, my five-year deal, and who knew it would lead to this at this point? I mean, I think it's an incredible move for coaches in general to take a little bit of time in between job A and job B. He can explore, like you said, Dan, Bill Parcells went to NBC for a year, did not thrive at that at all. He just was not good for that.

So who knows if Sean Peyton would, he talked about TV, get linked into that and love it. But I am telling you, like, every, almost outside of Belichick, every coach in the league would be replaced in a second by ownership for Sean Payton. It's going to be a story all year. It's going to be a story all year, assuming he's gone. This season alone shows how valuable he was. Every coach, I think, is strong personally, but I would say 75% of the league would be willing to do a swap out at the very least. and you brought up McCarthy, that to me, it all is still, if you put the red string on the board.

Today was a bad day for Mike McCarthy because what this is going to be now is a situation where he's going to, when we do our hot butt exercise come August, his butt is going to be hotter than anyone because it's all set up for, hey, Mike, if you don't win the Super Bowl, Jerry Jones is going to find a way to cut a check and get paid. separated from the Saints and bring him in to replace you to be the missing link of this team. Now, sometimes these things that seem obvious don't actually come to fruition, but sometimes it's right in front of you. And I feel like this is one of those times where Peyton will be the next coach of the Dallas Cowboys. It just now comes down to can Mike McCarthy with the urgency at the highest will that team to another level. That still seems to me where his next location is, I don't buy the Saints. I think that I think that's the end of an error. The way he was talking sounded like it was the end of the era, and maybe the Saints would be better to turn the page themselves.

I get it, but they can hold a, you know, they have them under contract. I don't know. I mean, if you're the Saints. Contracts mean nothing. They always get torn up. I get it. But if you're going to trade him and you're going to trade him to the Dallas Cowboys, your price is going to be so high that either it's going to work out great for you or the Cowboys

aren't going to be able to do it. I mean, he becomes like a player almost that you're going to want to send to a different contrast are certainly not a regional rival relatively in the Cowboys. And it just, it becomes a very fascinating John Gruden-like situation, except I think with a little more year-to-year pressure on it than Gruden had, where you always thought Gruden was going to come back. You didn't know when. Payton, if he's going to do it, maybe he'll just love broadcaster, but if he's going to do

it, it's going to be sooner, sooner than later. And the Saints absolutely should hold a hard bargain. Like, this is nice. They're like passing pastries back and forth. at some point it's going to be business i thought it was interesting that sean peyton brought up mike mccarthy by name in this press conference talking about when he found out that mike mccarthy got the packer's job and he threw his phone into the pillow and obviously it was the best thing that ever happened to him so i appreciated that i thought that was kind of a little of a

breadcrumb maybe but i also loved his honesty when he was talking about his friendship with mickey loomis and then just threw out of nowhere he was like he walks slow it bothers me i want him to pick it up. That was maybe my favorite line of the entire press conference. Yeah, that struck me too, Connie, because it did feel like he was going very much off the top of his head and he was speaking comfortably, which is a good sign for a guy that's looking to get in the media. He won't be like his old quarterback, Drew B's. Greg, let me just say this to go back to the McCarthy thing. I understand what the cost would be and it would be deemed by many to be prohibitive. I understand it could be messy with the contract situation. Maybe the

Saints don't want to keep them in the NFC. But you're telling me, not if, when the Cowboys go eight and nine next year under Mike McCarthy, and Jera, who's at that point going to be nearing 80 years old, I believe, is going to move mountains to get the head coach he wants, just like he did to get Bill Parcell's way back when that, I just stand by that. I think that Jarre will make it happen if Jera wants it to happen. Okay. But then, yeah, then the Saints wind up with like three first round picks or whatever it's going

to take. And I just think it'll be a fascinating thing because it's so rare. And maybe other teams get involved, you know, that the Saints would rather trade them to. And yeah, if that's where Peyton wants to go and the Cowboys want it to happen, that's all possible. But the Saints are in a good point. Like that's what they're paying for with that suitcase mark. Like that that's what they were paying for is now they have, they're going to pay them all that money, you know, they have that leverage and they gave them that guaranteed money. They gave them the rage. And even at the time, Peyton probably knew he's giving up some power if he wants to walk away. And that's part of it. And I think like the next team that gets Sean Payton's like they are getting such a good

coach. I liked what he said about his maturation process of how to deal with the media and him as a person. If you look at the coaches that's been under him, he's chosen some great coaches. Dan Campbell and Aaron Glenn, who are now in Detroit, he really made a push for Dennis Allen. I think he knows how to handle the whole organization. And I think that's different. Like when he won early in New Orleans. He's admitted, he had some trouble almost dealing with like the rock star nature that he had in New Orleans. He admittedly had a drug problem.

You had Bounty Gate and there was probably no more paranoid coach in the entire NFL. There was a point around the Bounty Gate and when all that drug stuff was happening that he didn't seem like a healthy person. And now I think he's come out the other end and he's been a better coach and they haven't won the Super Bowl here. in the last stretch, but they've been incredibly well-coached and inconsistent. And, like, you know, you're right that any team is going to want him. Well, he's definitely mellowed out.

I mean, people that know him talked about that. I mean, he's on his second marriage at this point. You know, his life's changed. I would say this, to Dan's point, three first-round picks for Sean Payton. If I'm an NFL owner, I do it, I never look back. I never think about it. You're good for the next 10 years. And you've got a brand, you've got a franchise, and you have a coach that can maximize

your players, your scheme, you're all. Offends as good as anyone in the league. Sure. But even with lesser quarterbacks, look what he's done. The last thing is he's like Parcells, though. He's leaving at the right time. Like, you want to go in and rebuild it and be the hero. And they've got about $70 million in cap problems.

They don't have a quarterback. I don't think Teran Armis that's going to be there. There's going to be a lot of changes. And Mickey Loomis, who's been there the whole time. And maybe Dennis Allen, who it really sounds like has the inside track for this job, is going to have an extremely difficult job in this next year. Well, and to Connie's point, I guess, you know, Mickey Loomis walking at a slower pace has finally annoyed him to such a degree that he's left Mickey Loomis, general manager of the New Orleans Pelicans as well, in a double fix.

Payton's just going to go hang out in Cabo. Like he just got married in Cabo this offseason. He went, he made his decision in Cabo. I don't know. Great things happen in Cabo. He said he just bought a new place in New Orleans. So I like that. He's staying in there.

I think we should go to Cabo. I feel like anybody who goes to Cabo, something good happens. I got my anniversary coming up. There you go. By the way, we also, one thing you didn't address, Greg, with his personal problems and, like, you know, tragedies, the Kevin James casting. Like, he overcame that. Well, that's great news. He's going to get to do all the, he's going to be working for, I'm going to predict NBC, but could be ESPN, who knows.

And he's going to be able to do all the talk shows promoting home game. You know, people made fun of the Kevin James thing. Are you kidding me? Like, he's a football coach that has some, yeah, pretty high A-list level actor playing him, a Netflix movie. I mean, that should be good for the ego. Yeah, I think the casting could have been a little better on that. Do you recall we did actually a, we did a casting for Sean Payton last off season? Who did we come down on?

Did her my wife offers some options? She did. She did. Yeah, I mean, she and I combined because I'm a, you know, I've, I've some casting talent myself. So, yeah. I'm going Peter Sarsgard. Like, who is, you know, he's never bad. He's never bad.

Let's take a break. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that?

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Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how

teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Let's keep moving. We got a bunch of news to hit before we get to Jordan.

So we'll, but we got to give Tom Brady a little bit of time here because this is obviously a huge story. Tom Brady's season ended Sunday, 3027 loss for the bucks to the Rams. They wiped out a 24 point deficit. only to lose in heartbreaking fashion. Brady did play very well in the, during the closing, in the closing half of that game, even though he was under constant duress.

So he went out, if this would be the good way he goes out, he went out as a big time player still. But now we're hearing he's thinking about it. He's involving his family in making the decision. Here's what he said on his podcast with none other than the infamous Jim Gray. Football is extremely important in my life, and it means a lot to me, and I care a lot about

what we're trying to accomplish as a team, and I care a lot about my teammates. And the biggest difference now that I'm older is I have kids now, too, you know, and I care about them a lot as well. And, you know, they've been my biggest supporters. My wife is my biggest supporter. It pains her to see me get hit out there. And, you know, she deserves what she needs for me as a husband. My kids deserve what they need for me as a dad.

you know, I've already kind of shared my thoughts on how I think this ends up, so I won't belaborate. But I do, I do want to say, I knew that he has Brady a professional relationship with Jim Gray, the infamous Jim Gray. But it's apparently a podcast called the Let's Go podcast. And how boring must that podcast be to never be in the news? We never hear about it. Maybe this is the first episode. I suppose you're so you're telling me, okay, maybe. Maybe it's been completely dark. But there is a scenario. here where Tom Brady, Tom Brady's been doing a podcast. Who knows, every week. Maybe three times a week. There are a thousand episodes in. Right. Larry Fitzgerald is on it too. Nothing newsworthy.

It's, uh, yeah, it's like seven. It's probably started. Hey, Ricky, timing wise. Can you do some digging and let me know how often the Let's Go podcast has published? Yeah, let me look into it. All right. Anyway, Connie, you're, you got the floor. All right. I didn't realize that I didn't have the floor at the beginning of the show when you asked me this. So here we go. I'm going to go into my actual take on this. I don't really, I don't think that this is an attention thing for Tom Brady. When he says that he's going to kind of take time and think about it with his family, I believe him in that. And I think that he's serious here because he said that a fair and well tour would not be something that he wanted to do and that he would find it distracting. But I think the main reason why I take this so seriously is because

Tom Brady was on Howard Stern, like two years ago maybe, and it was a really interesting interview. And in that interview, he talked about his family and his relationship with them and his relationship with Giselle and how they had gone to marriage counseling together and how so much of what he does, it really is like a family decision. And when you think about the supreme effort that goes into Tom Brady, being Tom Brady, that is not something that is easy and that's taking away a lot of time from his family and from his personal life. I mean, he is like 70 years old maybe at this point. Like he actually could be 80 years old at this point. But the way that he is playing and the way that he puts

all of this work into his body and his performance and everything on the field, that's not insignificant. So I think that this, it could be him going out. And it's not a bad way to go out. Sure, that he didn't win another Super Bowl, but individually, it was one of his best seasons. So it was, and especially after the way that they came back against the Rams, they fell short, but it was a dramatic comeback. So if it goes out. Yeah. Rick. Well, there were 43 episodes and it's explicit and it's through serious XM, but it does look like sometimes Tom Brady's not on it. And it's Larry Fitzgerald and Jim Gray. But it does look like Brady's been on quite a bit, started in September.

I think my guess would be they take that radio hit and throw it into the podcast, but who knows? It's weekly. And yeah, and there's Fitzgerald episodes. It's very strange. You've got the explicit tag. It's a good point. Hey, we are better and bigger than Tom Brady at one thing, Dan. I mean, we, there's no way his podcast gets our numbers.

Think about it. Like, Aaron. Eat it. Let's go. So, Aaron Rodgers goes on the McAfee show. And it's like the biggest story in the NFL like every Tuesday. Come on, Tommy. Well, I mean, he's dropping incendiary commentary. He doesn't say anything, especially if it is that radio hit repurposed.

It's like he really doesn't say anything on that. I think what he said, I think what he said on the podcast, though, was telling he's never talked like this before. That's why it's different. We've never had these reports before. He's never talked to Al Michaels about it before. I think he is going to retire, if I had to guess, obviously, you have no idea. Whoa. But I just think because he just seems like the type, football players say this all the time,

that once you're thinking about it, it's like you're already retired. And I would think for Tom Brady, that would be doubly true. And just the way that he said, look, I get joy from playing football, but now outside of football, there's a lot of joy for me there as well. The team not deserving anything less than his best. so like total commitment like i buy that it almost sounds like he's leaning that way now almost clearly and it's that emotional time right after the season when a lot of players are like that almost like he's trying to convince himself because of course he said it's not about necessarily what

he wants and it has been about what he wants because he would have retired years ago if it wasn't about what he wants and so that that's why the timing of it all and yeah he it sounded like he wanted to get back to another Super Bowl. Like, that would have been the perfect way to go out. But he's played enough NFL seasons to know how brutal it is and how much of a chance there is next year that, like, the bucks are way worse. Like, he's realistic enough about that or that he's worse. And that he's also been to the end of seasons where his team, you know, stumbled to the

finish line and people didn't even think about him as a top 10 quarterback. Like, if he is going out, to me, this is about as on top as it could be. this two-year stint in Tampa Bay that even the most optimistic Tom Brady fans like me never would have thought would have been this successful on an individual level or a team level that they got a Super Bowl. And so it just it just checks out to me that he is going to do it or that he's leaning, at least at this moment he's leaning that way and he's just trying to give it a little time to see to see if he would change it. I don't think he's going to be a Brett Fav type at all. I think he would be the opposite. You're going to put your sandwich

where your mouth is? Sure. Why not? Why not? I hate to be a dissenting voice. I agree with Greg. I think he's out. Right. And I admit, it's like, I don't know. We're reading into human character, but that's what would be my guess. I get real concerned for the idea that someone like Tom Brady who, like his life, the son is football, and that's what he revolves around. I get the family angle. And there's obviously been tension there because he mentioned that Giselle has wanted him to walk away for a while. So to me, what concerns me a little bit beyond the football aspect of it is that it sounds like a compromise. Maybe not. Maybe I, what do I know? I don't know the family at all. But I worry about Tom Brady come August that suddenly, first of all, physically still in

great shape, an MVP candidate playing at the highest level walking away from a game that has been his life, that is his identity on so many levels for family life. I think. that can be very fulfilling too, but I'll, I go back to like this interview that I had with Marv Levy's wife during Super Bowl week. And she talked about when he finally retired after decades and decades of the biarrhythm of football, that he came into the home suddenly. He was there 24-7. And she had learned to live with Marv Levy living this other structured life. And she told me, said, look, this thing drove me absolutely nuts. Suddenly there's this guy in the house all day long who has nothing to do.

And it was a terrible fit. I couldn't even put the article in NFL.com because it was far too negative. I'm not projecting that on Tom Brady, but I do worry about someone who is such a lifer this way, leaving for the family and kids' reason. I do.

It should be known because I have knowledge of this. Dolores Levy hated Marve Levy. The marriage was a sham. Look at I, like I came away from Mark. I know you're kidding, but I came away from the interview thinking they were a match because they were never around each other. That's how they got to.

Do you want to do a sandwich with me on this, too? I totally think he's out. I will happily bet a sandwich on it. How about you, Connie? He wouldn't want to do a retirement tour, too. Right, exactly. And he kind of, he did the Tom Brady, you know, series weekly. What was it called on ESPN this year?

Like, he just let go of his, he just released his clothing line. I think it's called, love you, Tom. commercials and stuff. It's like he's sort of branching. Love you, bro. He's out. I think he's retiring. All right.

You want to get it on the sandwich? Yeah. Oh, I got three on the hook. Come on back, Tommy, boy. All right, let's keep moving. Big story, though. Huge story. All right, let's hop on the personnel carousel, shall we?

The bucks and the saints could both stink at the same time. Yeah, the NFC cell taking a hit, potentially, of epic proportions. And that rules like, yes, maybe now. go six and eleven this is so crazy the giants have filled their general manager post hiring joe Shane is it Shane is that what we came down on the spellings yes yes Joe Shane he is the new general manager of the German the Shane is the former Bill's assistant GM he was the right-hand man up there in Buffalo so this is a guy that helped build that powerhouse bill's roster or had certainly had a hand in it so it feels like

so far so good for the giants the bears also have filled their GM post hiring and this one i don't know for some reason this one bothers me ryan poles is the new GM which is a too close to ryan pace and also nick foals who was a bad bear ryan polls it drives me nuts it drives me absolutely nuts if like you let's say you were you were someone a girl or a guy that's fine too dating someone named Ryan if you break up with Ryan

you don't go date another Ryan you have to date someone with a different name before you go back to Ryan imagine go ahead well I'm just that's my personal code

but maybe you branched into that you love Ryan Colleen famously loves Ryan no I was going to say my ex-boyfriend ended up marrying a Colleen like do we think that that's problematic and his name was Gonzo

was it back to back Was it back-to-back, Colleen? Well, then you know what? More power to him. My theory is taking a dirt nap. And in other news, the favorite to be the new general manager of the Minnesota Vikings replacing Rick Spielman up there is Brown's up-and-comer, vice president of football operations, going to nail it. Coessia dofo, Mensa. By the way, the Sean Payton press conference is still going.

Can you imagine thinking what's going? going on in your life is that important? Like, John F. Kennedy, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, didn't speak this long. Well, no, he's getting questions. It is this important in New Orleans. Like, he should take all the public questions that they want to ask them. Because this started, this press conference started 73 minutes ago. He's a football coach. He's a perfect fit for Jerry Jones, by the way. Those two- Let him have his moment. He's, he's the coach of the local football team. I get it, but they're asking questions. He's not going to be in that setting ever again. So just

like- Let him keep asking. Aaron, Aaron. And we meet Sean Payton. Ara. We have major pigs invasion failed. Era, era.

We have major problems. Era, era. And then it's over in like 25 minutes. Right. Concise. Kennedy-esque. Right. We should mention like that giant's higher.

You know, he's from the bills. He's interviewing Brian Dable as a finalist for that job. Dan Quinn is as well for a second interview. But it makes it more likely that it's going to be Dable. And then with the chiefs guy going to Minnesota. you kind of wonder if they'd bring in Eric B. Enemy and supposedly he has a relationship

with Domech O'Reans he was with in San Francisco who was going to get a second interview in Minnesota so those might be two names to watch. I think Eric B. Enemy is going to need compromising photos of someone's like owner to get a head coaching job. It just seems that's how this thing is going to pour out. Well, this is a guy that worked with him closely.

So you would think it would be telling one way or another if he doesn't hire him. I found that the Shane hire interesting for the Giants on one little thing that there's whispers that that Mara wants, the ownership, wants Brian Flores, or is very into Brian Flores. But Shane worked under Chris Greer for like nine years. So like if anyone's going to get the real story on Brian Flores and probably be, I would imagine, tilted away from Brian Flores, it would be the guy they just hired it.

I mean, if you're getting the guy that's the guy behind the guy in Buffalo personnel-wise and Brian Dable is a red-hot offensive coordinator candidate who's going to get a big chair, That just, it seems to make sense. Connect those dots. Real quick, on the polls hire, what did you guys think of George McCasky picking up Poles at the airport wearing a Bears jacket and jeans and holding Poles' hometown as like the card for him to recognize him? Apparently Bears' Twitter was like split on this.

Half of them thought it was a cheap kind of way to do things. I thought it was kind of nice. I thought it was a sweet touch. McCasky the chairperson of the Chicago Bears official title I like it I think they are just generally very a lot of Bears fans seem to be generally embarrassed by McCasky as a human so I'm not sure that it bridged the gap but it seemed like a tender way to intro him yeah tender mark have you put in a phone call to Adafo Mensa

to perhaps sway him to stay with Cleveland and keep that brain trust or to get that job go go go work for him in Minnesota stop trying to kick Mark off the podcast Greg. We see what you're trying to do. No, I've not contacted him, but also, you know, the Browns, this is the way this new thing works. They get two third round picks if he takes the job. So we'll see. You know, although he probably would have been the guy making those picks. So now we've got, we've got issues. There's problems. All right. Let's hop back on the personnel carousel

here. A number of coaches now are taking second interviews. Greg's going to run him down because That's how his brain works. He has them all on the tip of his tongue right now. The only one I'll share with you is that our good friend, Packers' offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett, is set to have his second interview with the Broncos that went down yesterday, actually, in Denver. We are close, and I got this update from David Ely on the news desk,

and we know the news desk apocalypse surrounding the headshot and a unnamed talent flagging them multiple times. um head coach nathaniel hackett in play in play sounds like they like it they they uh they had dan quinn for a second one too but hackett seems to be getting a little more buzz if rogers ends up like coming back and going over there then that would kind of uh seems like a bad as a connection i would hope that wouldn't be the reason that you were hiring him because that you know it might not be up to might not be up to Aaron Rogers. Well, they also interviewed his Cube coach.

They interviewed the Packers Cube coach for that head coaching job too. So you wonder if Hackett brings him over as OC and suddenly, you know, Aaron Rogers, you know, who has backed Nathaniel Hackett as a head coaching hire for a while now, it maybe gets into the head a little bit and thinking it's nice and Denver. It does feel like a modern day Broncos move to really roll out the red carpet without any promises. I would say like whether you're Hackett, who's, you know, all right, he's pretty good. candidate in terms of hot names. He's connected to a team that's done very well in the regular season. Dan Quinn's an even better example who's coming off a year where he's completely

rehabbed his image. Wouldn't you not go anywhere, knowing what we know about our league, unless a star quarterback was there? It's just too much of a risk to join a team that doesn't have a guy in place because you only get one to maybe three years, but probably one to two years. Are you really going to roll the dice if you have your pick of teams? If I'm quite, Quinn, I would not leave that position unless they absolutely had a rock star landing spot. Yeah, the second time around that place. Right. I think the second time around.

That's right because he's earned the life-changing money. Like Nathaniel Hackett, who knows if he actually ever gets another offer. It's tough to be choosy. Some of these guys who get in the interview cycles are gone from it forever pretty soon. I mean, he can look to his dad as an interesting example. I mean, Paul Hackett was supposed to be the next Bill Walsh. his dad never quite happened and bill wash i i believe was you know furious at him for leaving leaving the the nest in san francisco back in the day and i it's weird nathanio hackett isn't calling

plays in green bay you know when he was calling plays it was for the blake portal jaguars not you know wasn't beloved by any means no interesting all right let's uh any other coaching coaches you guys want to throw out there All right, good. Let's move on in other news. I found this interesting. Andy Reid, he's been on both sides of the overtime coin toss, good and bad, where you're trying to, you know, extend your season, get to a Super Bowl. You lose the coin toss in a classic game. Your great quarterback never gets the ball. Andy Reid empathizes with the bills after that difficult divisional playoff loss for Buffalo. I wouldn't be opposed to an OT rules. change, Reed said, Ian Rappaport, our own Ian Rappaport, the NFL Network Insider, said that it is potentially on the table that a change could happen. We shall see.

Now, I've been thinking about this. Greg, we talked about it on the Sunday night show. You pointed out correctly that if it was both teams get the ball, regardless of what happens in the first possession, it actually favors the second team because they know what they need. that gets the ball second, I should say. All right. So what if you kept a coin flip, whoever wins the coin flip gets to elect whether they get

the ball first or second, you'll almost always, I would think, take second strategically. And that way, you still, the flip still gets to decide who has the advantage, but it doesn't potentially end the game without both quarterbacks slash offenses seeing the field. How about that? I don't think it's better. I don't think, I'm out. No, I mean, I just, I don't think there's a better. overtime situation i i think overtime inherently is gonna be random so you have to win in regulation

to avoid that but any recipe where it's like you could be playing three overtimes essentially because the possessions keep going back and forth like college uh seems crazy for a league that seems that sounds obsessed about player safety it just it's like football if you get to the end and oh the defense is is gassed and like they can't stop them anymore so that sounds like a time for the game to end. You know what I mean? Like I don't, I just don't see why that. I guess this is my point about this whole thing. Mark, I'm curiously. You think like if if you're going to, and I'm not saying this to you specifically, Greg, but everyone that's baching about the overtime rules, well, we need to have everyone that bids has to have a plan. Now I just shared mine. Greg shot it

down. That's fine with it. I'm out. Now I'll be there. Somebody, we need ideas. We need to figure this out because it does feel like the current plan just doesn't work. I would just just say the player safety thing, like, I wouldn't change regular season at all. I don't think anyone's pushing to do that. But when you get into a playoff scenario like we've seen, it robbed, obviously, Patrick Mahomes of a chance to match Tom Brady a couple years ago. This time Mahomes is on the upper hand of that. But it robbed us of seeing Josh Allen. And I think it kind of stole the spirit of that game away. So I, you know, I'm hearing lots of good ideas. I'm not going to cook one up because who's going to listen to that?

I think, wait, hold on. I would say you'd do it. Colleen, what do you think? I think that they should play the full overtime period until the very end. And then if they're still tied there, each team gets one offensive possession. What if they both score touch? A lot of football. It's so much NFL football.

But I think players would not have to play that. All right. How about this? Every play is a car craft. I'm factoring. I kind of like the 10 minutes, though. I kind of like that. I'm factoring in everything, everything that everyone is saying,

including the player safety, which is something that the NFL, even though sometimes it doesn't align with the realities of how the league's moving forward, they talk a lot about player safety. Keep the current modified overtime rules in place, regular season, like Mark's saying, that's fine. It's a regular season. In the playoffs, you have a newly modified overtime situation that is shifted to make sure these teams get a fair shake because the championship is now on the line. its second season. How about that? Modified postseason overtime. Yeah, I totally agree with that.

I think that that seems to serve everyone. And Greg, I mean, we're talking about like the exhaustion factor and how can we possibly have them play five more minutes. This may occur like one, it's what occur maybe like one or two times in the playoffs tops. I mean, it's it's it just seems like that game, rule changes come off of premier island game moments like that. That's when that's what triggers the NFL to make change. Right. That's why Andy Reid had to say that. He was boxed in a corner because he was literally the one who brought up the rules proposal change four years ago and it didn't go anywhere. Like the chiefs were the ones who wanted the rules change. And maybe the legalist, maybe the people who are making the decisions has changed, but it didn't work four years ago.

It's taken on this, like it is a very tedious argument on Twitter at this point. But I think that from the spirit of what we watched Bill's chiefs, I would like to see a change a little bit. I guess part of me thinks like, hey, newsflash, it's all, like, randomness is such a huge factor. We add on all these narratives after the fact. But it's like, it's a random thing. And that, like, can be uncomfortable as fans that the coin flip does matter. I think it's only been like 53% of teams in general that won that won the coin flip have won. So it hasn't been like that huge of a factor.

In the playoffs, I think they've won 10 and 11 times. In the playoffs, it's happened more. I don't know if that that's right. But it's like there's so every. thing was random to get to that point and it's and that's i think what happens with an over great that's all that point we don't adjust anything in human existence no my point the random nature of all things is i mean what no i'm saying like an oh like to get to overtime and there's so many factors uh that had to come into play before that like i can accept a little bit of randomness

with the coin flip because it's not that big ultimately you can still go win a ball game a million other ways. You pointed out Andy Reid four years ago that was after that classic between the Patriots and Chiefs, I assume, in the AFC title game when the Chiefs lost the coin toss at Arrowhead and never got the ball. I love Tom Brady. What about the idea that same thing with how the past interference rule came to be, a high visibility playoffs instance being a catalyst for change. I wonder because that's being seen by many people as, well, that didn't work out well. I'm just saying, I think I feel like you're in the minority on this, Greg. I think a lot of people would like to experiment with change.

And maybe it doesn't work. Like even the past interference thing, yes, it failed miserably. But I don't mind that the NFL was open to trying different things to make the product better. I'm with you. I just haven't heard the thing that like gets me excited about something different. I was all four when they changed the overtime. And that was a three year process, if you guys remember. was in the playoffs only for a couple years, right?

That was back in 2010, 2012 or so, and they eventually adopted it. And it's been better. It's been better, but I haven't heard one that I like that. I don't remember anything from 2010. It's just so. I wrote a lot of PFT posts about it. It was a lot of, a lot of excitement. Sean McDermott, Bill's coach, speaking of that classic game, he said he has watched the last

13th said, this is why, this is why Sean Peyton retired today, quote unquote, retired. He's watched the last 13 seconds of regulation that led to that heartbreaking loss for Buffalo a million times. Let's listen to McDermott. And this is good that we have sound because that means that Sean McDermott is still alive. I watched it on video and I watched it over and over my head a million times and in my stomach a million more. I'll continue to watch it in my mind and in my gut for years. I wrote about it in the power rankings this week. Time will tell.

Is this the final agonizing roadblock for the bills and their climb to Lombardi glory? Or will this be the loss that sticks to the ribs like no other loss since those Super Bowl defeats? Like we don't know. The only thing we do know is now the bills need to go through another entire offseason, another training camp, another regular season into the playoffs just to get back to this point again. it's not just physical now for the bills and where that organization is at it's mental as well there's just so many heartbreaks too i mean when you think about the history of the bills and you have the music city miracle and you have the wide right and you have now like the 13 seconds and the fact

that sean mcdermott and all of the players are going to replay this over and over and over and their minds it's just it's so heavy on them and i really hope though it is the beginning for this team and not the end because it really could go either way. And we've seen it work with Kansas City and the Chiefs when they sort of came out on the wrong end of things. And now they're trying to get back to their third straight Super Bowl. But there are so many things that need to break right for teams and injuries. I mean, you're talking about player personnel, schedule, all of it.

And the one thing that stood out to me when I was looking through McDermott's quotes, just him talking about that plane ride home. obviously all of us can imagine what it was like but he said if you saw that plane ride on the way home you would not come away with the impression that we're fine and that's that's stating the obvious but just putting yourself in their shoes flying back from that just utter devastation oh my god right and it's sort of what i was getting at with like the randomness of it all like i i guess i just don't buy that the the bills didn't have some inherent championship level qualities inside of them that prevented them from winning the title this year.

To me, they, they, with a couple little things happening different that didn't have to do with them, you know, let's say they score in the next plate, like, then they win the Super Bowl. They were a championship team, but they didn't win it. And that's what happens in sports sometimes. And they'll have other cracks at it. Josh Allen is too good for them not to be a factor of it all. But you don't know. You just don't know that you're going to be there in that same sort of.

sort of spot for years. Right, they'll be relevant, but maybe they won't be that good. You just, you just don't know. And to Connie's point, I mean, Sean Peyton probably still speaking as we speak, can tell you, can tell you, yeah, is he still there? I don't know. He can tell you those three. Andrew has taken it from him and saying 90 minutes for the local football coach. Andrew's doing what?

Wow. You know, he's just wrapping a bow on it, you know, getting him into the next show. A real Abe Lincoln of sorts. But, I mean, those three straight, you know, heart wrenching play. playoff losses the Saints had. You thought, well, can they get back there because they're that good? Suddenly there's no Sean Payton. Suddenly there's no Drew Brees.

Suddenly there's total chaos. Right. And all that said, like, it's got to kill Sean McDermott watching that film, too, because, you know, he's... I don't think he's watching it for giggles. He's got to get his binoculars out to find his safeties on those two plays. I fired it up. They're 40 yards down the field. What are they doing there?

What are they doing there? They weren't in the plays. They, like, the safety came up to top Kelsey. he did about as good as he could have. He was like standing out the goal line. Something strange broke down there. And he said it was execution, McDermott. He wouldn't go into that, even beyond the kickoff thing.

But something strange happened with the execution of the defense for those last two plays. And he was hired to be a defensive mastermind, too. That's tough to stomach as a defensive guy. I was on good morning football this morning. And Gabriel Davis, he of the four touchdowns in a losing effort, was on being interviewed right before. And the man looked like he was at his own. funeral. Like it was a very, very, it's a very bittersweet, strange position for somebody like Gabriel Davis, who just had the greatest professional day he'll ever have in his life most

likely. And if things just went a little bit different in those hashtag 13 seconds, he's one of the biggest stories in the NFL. Instead, it's just kind of an afterthought. And by the way, on that note, 13 seconds. Not the 13 second miracle, not the 13 second game, these all-time Classics need that shorthand description, 13 seconds. Bingo. You nailed it. By the way, you know, that press conference going 90 minutes, little American history for you guys. William Henry Harrison was the president for just 31 days.

He passed away in 1841 after he gave the longest inauguration speech of any U.S. president outdoors in Washington. he fell seriously ill, potentially because of his exposure to the elements, and he died one month later. So it's just like it's important to, and that was the guy that just got elected president. And I'm sure his speech was shorter than Sean Payton's just now. It's timely. Although I think Payton's was indoors. They looked pretty warm down there in New Orleans. I think he'll be, I think his health has, he looks really in good shape. Shout out, William Henry Harrison.

Oh, wherever you at, big man. Your son's namesake. Is that the story that inspired you to name your son, Harrison? Well, the craziest thing is I wanted his name to be Henry. And my wife said no. Is it because you, like, your friends with an adult, Henry, Hanson Hanks? Mostly, yes. That was that's what stopped.

So it would be the second or? What about, what about VP? Yes, John Tyler in a big spot. I get tapped to be the vice and that's cool on VEEP. A month later, I'm Pusa. Not bad. All right. In other news.

I'm just saying I'm sure it was a bummer that his colleague and the President of the United States went down. I think we all just were stuck on the word you said before that, but we got, we figured it out. What, Pusa? Yeah. Yeah, that was it. Okay. Hey, good news. Fire up, turn up your amps.

Tune up your guitars because the Carolina Panthers land. their rock star offensive coordinator. Ben McAdoo, baby! Let's hear another tasty lick, Ricky. Macadoo, rock god. So that's good for the Panthers. And finally, late night with Jim Ursay, the cult's owner at 1.20 a.m. Eastern time this morning,

tweeted the following to the masses. You can see, clear as day, in the final eight NFL team playoffs, you need a QB and offense, comma, who can score 30 or more in regulation, ellipses, and a defense that can hold an opponent under 30 slammer football. The last four games, I wrote this down somewhere, here we are,

the last four games for the Indianapolis Colts, point total 27 22 2311 so it is what it is it's all out there isn't it wait can I just tell you something that happened during that was a wonderful summary but like in the background and Colleen if you're watching this on YouTube a door opens and an adult male walks through with a door with like a barking dog I'm assuming that was Gonzo right but that was just that was John we don't know if that's gonezo we don't know if that's gone That's my lover back there. He just, like, walked over to the corner of the kitchen and started pointing to his wrist like time and then throwing his hands up because I've been in the kitchen now for a while doing this spot.

I think he's hungry. I don't know. He's yelling still. Wait, who does Gonsa think he is? Just because he's hungry, we should wrap up the show or you should jump off? Exactly. Well, he didn't make you. And by the way, I had that great setup about Urse and the future of the cult.

It gets blown away because John can't stay in his bedroom for another 10 minutes. I thought the Eursa thing was fun. I didn't know anything about all that. So I thought it was informative. And bye-bye, Carson Wentz. I love John Gonzalez. He hijacked the show there. He did.

He wants a sandwich. That's his nature. Yeah. He's a star. Yeah. It is going to be an interesting QB carousel because it's becoming increasingly apparent that Jim Ursa is all done with Carson Wins. All right, that's what's happening in the news.

Let's take a break. And then let's get to Jordan Rodriguez. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. Twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here.

And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from Scouting Reports and player development to team-building philosophy's, trends in how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day.

Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game. on a deeper level we give you the full picture if you want insight that goes beyond the box score this podcast is for you don't miss it listen to the move the six podcast on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts all right welcome back it is time to welcome a guest we're all excited to speak with this woman she covers the rams for the athletic she's also the co-host of the 11 personnel pod she is the great jordan rodrigue what's up jordan welcome to the around the

NFL podcast how are you i guys i seem collected uh on the surface but i'm internally freaking out big fan of the show i told erika i was going to say that probably 60 times so just start cutting me off or editing it out or something when i start big fan of the show by the way i don't know if i mention that which uh which which of us is your favorite yeah i think plead the fifth on that one you can that that's that's the one see that's the thing with schrager jordan i don't know if you saw the episode a couple of years ago or listened to the episode we we asked peter schrager the same question and then he said gregg and we're all like what no yeah well no we i mean i remember this happening i asked i asked peter strager which one of us he respected the most and he did not hesitate

and said gregg while dan and i were sitting there uh somewhat thundersed by the response it's refreshing You give some small time you enter, you expect, you know, oh, no one's the favorite, you know, but he just gave you the truth. And that's nice. Refreshing for Greg. Jordan, you might be my, and I think maybe the whole group will contend this as well, favorite beat reporter at the athletic, which is quite a title because there's so much great talent there. But you're such a great writer.

You cover the sport in that team so well. And why don't we start this way with the Rams? because I thought the way you put it in your write-up after that classic near meltdown turned amazing victory in Tampa, that there are some demons with this team, right? Whether it's Stafford struggles in the past, even Matt Gay, the kicker going to Tampa, and Sean McVeigh now has to slay another. There's a demon here, obviously, with the San Francisco 49ers and the other boy genius on the other sideline. And do you think the Rams have that mental capability to step on the throat of an opponent, get to the Super Bowl, and completely rewrite their narrative of a lot of people connected to this organization?

You know what has been so insane, chaotic covering this team? I think in a good way, because I think, especially when you're a beat writer, which I love being. And thank you for saying that. Although I think you're not to say that because I am the guest on your show today. The, the, you get to see. No, we do ranking. actually pretty regularly. Zach Kiefer is like furious at us right now, but you have turned out to be on top.

Sorry, Zach. Your Zach Keeper is the ultimate talent there, but I'm feeling pretty proud of this. So you get to see incremental change over time and you get to sort of study that, right? And that's what I love about covering this team is because they've had major catalytic changes, but then also all the little things that are happening between those spaces. and that's where I think they do allow some of these, what I call them, they allowed some of these demons to sort of peek through and sneak through it

and almost catch them by surprise at times. Four fumbles will certainly catch you by surprise in the middle of the game. But I think with this team, I worry less, the interesting thing, personality with them that's developed is I almost worry less about how things go for them when things are calm,

when they have a lead, when they can exhale. And I worry more about, you know, what they do in those moments, I worry less about what happens when their backs up against the wall. All through December, you saw them winning games when all of these external factors were affecting their team, you know, massive COVID-19 outbreak and, you know, losing Robert Woods earlier in November,

onboarding to new players, just all of the things and moving parts that are swirling around this team. And then them navigating through that as well as they did, winning, you know, five in a row. and then ultimately finally a 17-point lead against, again, the 49ers who they could have knocked out of postseason contention and exhaling for the first time, going into the halftime, going into the locker room at halftime, and then they come back out and everything hits the fan. So it's very, it's been so interesting kind of gauging the personality. It's almost like they work better when there's chaos happening all around them, and I don't know who that's reflective of. Matthew Stafford certainly is comfortable operating through that chaos.

We nicknamed him on my podcast, Darkly Chaotic Matthew Stafford, because he does seem to navigate that headspace rather well. But it's been interesting. This team, it's almost like they can never let themselves get comfortable in any way because things start slipping through the cracks in that regard. I love that you nicknamed him Darkly Chaotic because that's exactly what I bookmarked in your article from this week when you described his tendency to dip too far into darkly.

chaotic decision making and also the fact that he embraced that chaos and kind of found clarity at the end of that game. But can you explain just like a little bit more about the dark place that his teammates kind of described him going into after that spike? Yeah, it was kind of they felt they saw him maybe leave this plane and enter another one, I think. You know, it was it was very interesting. That's part of the reason why I love this team, right? Because I mean, I love covering this team because they are so fascinating in the little things that they let slip. And that was a

personality slip in him that we hadn't really seen. You see the competitor. You see the guy who wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game, regardless of whether or not they have a lead. He wants to stay on the field. He wants to be participating. And certainly when things aren't going their way, he wants to be the guy that helps

sort of settle the calm, even if he is part of the reason why that chaos has happened in the first place. And that was a a sort of explosive moment when he spiked that ball because his teammates sort of saw this different look in his eyes, as Sean McVeigh always says, you know, the talks about people look in their eyes, right?

And so they sort of saw this different person who really does elevate in those moments. And that's why I always find him a fascinating study because he does invite that sometimes. He does turn the ball or he did earlier into season, postseason, he's been excellent. But he was turning the ball over at an opportune times in certain moments.

But you never felt like there was this implosion. And then sort of he channeled that in the end of the game, all of that sort of chaos that he's adept at navigating, sometimes even if it's self-inflicted. And it almost seemed to just burst out of him in that spike. And his teammates are like, whoa, man. So it was really fascinating. And I do think, and then him talking postgame,

sometimes you have to go into that place and learn how to embrace that place, which I think we've seen over the course of his career, certainly, to me, that's a psychological component of this, is learning how to be that person and embrace that part of you, even when things go wrong, even when it's your fault, if things go wrong. That makes me so much more interested in Matthew Stafford that he has sort of a dark inner region that he channels during games. Speaking Mark's love language, no, it's darkness and chaos.

It's very intriguing. But, I mean, so it's obviously such a weather. worn fact at this point that the Niners have stomped them, you know, taken in six in a row. But in terms of the team's psychology, the potential weight of that, you know, we're weeks removed from them melting down against the Niners, which obviously changed the complexion of the NFC playoffs drastically. Is there a weight? Are they, are, is this a new opportunity where they're able to take all that and put it on a boat and just float it out into the, into the ocean? Or is it something that they think about, that Sean McVeigh thinks about, you know,

dealing with Kyle Shanahan, who's just owned them. It's such an outlier for the Rams. Like, where are they neck up? I think they wanted it. You hear guys talk about wanting it this way. And, you know, you lose to a team six times. I think that says something about you as a group, as a person, for wanting this to be the case.

And I think it's because this would be the ultimate way to sort of, to shake these guys in the end, to really sort of prove that they belong, to really set those roots back into the ground after getting here and having such early success early on after their move back to Los Angeles and to really build around that. That's substance. The Rams have a lot of style and they get style points left right and sideways all through the year for the moves they make and for the things that they can do and then the passing

concepts they have and some of the star defensive players. But winning, beating a team that you have, you know, for lack of all other. irony and storylines that were possible. This is the most ironic storyline that they could have faced. And this is also the one that I think if they get past this provides them with the most substance,

shows the most resilience and the most substance that they have so worked toward proving sort of despite a lot of external conversation about what they're not. And I think it does also show, this does show what they're not. They had a chance to close. They had a chance to eliminate

these guys and they didn't. They allowed them to sort creep back in just like they did in the game. And so, you know, they want this chance to prove that this is who they really are, you know, not the guys who let other people hang around, but the guys who can control their own fate. And I think part of the thing that helps too, you know, I would think it's a mental technique as well, knowing that you can get out to a lead in front of a team that has, you know, six times in a row just handled you, knowing that you can get out to that lead and then figuring out that new part of yourself where you do close well that's the thing about the rams like in that first half when they got up 17 nothing they look like the best team in the

NFL they should have been up against the bucks the defending champs 34 to 3 at one point that looked like jaguar's patriots for a while that was just total domination and what the 49ers have done so well over the years i think is overwhelmed them with physicality you know they stopped the rams running game last time around. And once you got into the second half, they started winning the pass rush battle, and they started pushing the Rams around running the ball. So to me,

I would imagine that feels great. Like, that's the ultimate challenge. I'm just wondering, like, as someone that's watched this team and seeing Sean McVeigh coach up front, do you think some of this

giving up the lead and the lack of killer instinct, Dan talks about, is goes up to him. Because the thing that I'm always surprised about is how conservative he is by nature, not, you know, fourth down decisions.

maybe running the ball more when when you have the lead even though the pass is working like in a game like Tampa and then maybe just spinning forward to this one when the running game is not working like do you trust Sean McVeigh to approach this like we're just going to throw it on him like we are not going to be content just trying to get to the finish line here let's let's blow this team out let's be aggressive because he hasn't he hasn't always been that coach yeah I think one of the the blocks that he faces and has so often against this team is is, you know, what do you do when all of the normal things don't work? Do you keep trying those things, or do you try to push through, even if it makes you

uncomfortable or takes you to a part of yourself that you aren't usually showing in terms of that lack of conservatism that he normally does show and display so often? And that surprised me, too, come in to cover this team because you don't look at this team on paper and think, oh, yeah, they almost quite literally never go forward on fourth down or any of those things. And so I think that to me, in order to, if you're faced with a similar situation, and let's face it,

the planets are aligning for all of this to be extremely similar to what we've seen over the last couple of times because it seems like the story is written this way. And to me, you have to take the different path at that time. You have to keep being aggressive because he was plenty aggressive in the first half of that game And just like what you're saying, Greg, he, he sort of, you sort of turtle up a little bit and you sort of, you know, play to not lose.

But I don't think you can do that anymore. I think you have to force yourself out of that box. You have to force yourself out of that comfort zone of what the safest decisions are and trust that this is a team that, again, does operate really well in that crazy space. And I think that that's a really important factor. He's trying to or should be trying to unlearn and then relearn at this point of the process. process because the rest of it hasn't worked. It really hasn't. And especially when a team like the 49ers is such a bad matchup for the Rams in part because they can flood those margins. They can sort of turn on their heads the spaces in which someone is playing it too safe. And I think that's been one of the biggest difference makers in these two teams and the way that they, their ethos is sort of composed

for that reason. And I think Sean McVeigh needs to almost like punch his way through that. Yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see if the Rams, if the game script plays out similarly and Los Angeles has as a lead, do you let your veteran quarterback, the one that you met by happenstance in Cabo, in Cabo? Do you let him take you to the Super Bowl? I kind of feel like that would be the way to play it. But listen, Sean McVehan knows what he's doing. We'll see how he plays it if that presents itself. Jordan, you have, you did it. You've said it all. We feel more prepared to watch the Rams on Sunday. Thanks to you and everybody make sure we

mean it. You want to read some really great sports writing right now. For real. Read everything from Jordan over at the Athletic. Thank you so much and good luck this weekend. Thanks guys. I think my hands are shaking right now. I feel like we could have used more compliments though. You said you were going to keep complimenting.

Yeah. Well, you guys, this is a thing. You guys reverse Sean McVade me. You flipped it on me. Now you're coming in and now I'm all thrown off. Oh my God. Do not get, don't get conservative in your game right up now on Sunday night. You know, you got to go for it. Stick the landing. All right. Good stuff. Thank you, Jordan. Thank you. Thanks, Jordan. All right. There she goes. Excellent. I love her. Yeah, she's great. And isn't it interesting that the Rams and Mark, I know you've had a

complicated relationship at times with the Rams is a team that maybe gets too much love, but they really are a very interesting team at this moment in time. I don't mind. talking about them for extended periods. Well, I think they're, right now, I don't have a problem with them being, you know, the bell of the ball because they've earned it now. It's when they kind of hadn't. Mark's cool covering them once they make it to the championship game. Like, okay, they deserve some.

I already, like two months ago, gave up all willpower to desire anything to happen this season. I'm kind of enjoying it because things are getting spicy. I would listen to her podcast, too, which I checked out today with Rich Hammond, like, very good, very good Rams coverage there, too. Excellent journalist, good guest. And I do think that if you had to power rank who she respects most, I think it's probably going to be easy for me to detect.

I'll tell you later what my findings are. Where am I going? Real quick. Mark, what is going on with you? Would you say that you respect and love the Rams more now after hearing that Stafford goes to these dark places? Oh, entirely. I mean, it adds a layer of complex intrigue that I didn't really understand about Matthew

Stafford before. I mean, I think you're in a dark place if you're in Detroit for a decade plus to begin with. But this is entirely from a different angle. I love that. So I think it was made clear, but just to kind of hit it again, after Stafford hit that big completion to set up the MacA field goal. For the love of the game route. Yeah, for the love of, yes, as it will forever be known. After he spikes the ball, he's in another world.

Like he's in a dark place. And you would think he'd be ecstatic. Not only did he take the hit, make the throw. get down the field, spike the ball and give him the team a chance. He was in some other place. I love that. It's just the competitor within. And this is kind of like his moment after a dozen years in Detroit, never really getting the shot.

I think he's seizing that. And that's something to remember when we decide who's going to win this game on Sunday that Stafford might have that eye of the tiger for a lack of a better description. And he took the hit from Indomacan Sioux, his old teammate. and he hits it against the zero blitz that Jared Goff was the guy who could never solve. You had to get rid of Jared Goff and he does that at all, like maybe he was just tired from running down the field, but I like that.

He sort of blacked out in that moment. All right, now it's time. We can all black out if we want it because this show's over. Nice. So just feel free to do that, but do it safely, if that's possible. Connie, thank you for joining us. You're always a bright, shining light

in our orbit. So thank you. Great to be back. Great to see you guys. This was fun. We're just having compliments around all over the place, aren't we? Yeah. You know, it's a good thing.

It's a good thing to tell people that you respect that you like being around them and you're enjoying professionally working with them. That's okay, Mark. I know, but I've not heard anyone say that directed towards me. I like working with you, Mark. I respect you professionally. It's been a long and fruitful relationship. All right.

We're coming up on our 10 years to. together here as co-workers meet the three of us. It's been largely productive as a professional bar. Totally pure, totally pure years. Totally pure. Anyway, check out Connie also on the Split Ends podcast with Ricky Hollywood. We'll be back on Thursday with a proper preview. Listen, there's only three games left now.

We got two on Sunday and then the big boy. Well, Mark's all in on the Pro Bowl also. Don't forget the Pro Bowl. Yeah, the Pro Bowl. So we got the Pro Bowl as well. Absolutely. But, yes, so if you count the Pro Bowl four. but we recognize three on this show don't tell rog don't tell any shadowy league figures let's just

leave it at that thank you for listening and remember heed the call I'm going to be able to be. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.