NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Stock up & stock down

Episode Date: August 3, 2015

A room filled with heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler – break down the latest NFL news, including the Seahawks locking up two key starters and the newest comments regarding Chip Kelly. Then, the heroes debate whose stock is up and whose stock is down after the first week of training camp.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast, might return punts this season. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis, and I am joined by a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosethal. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. Ow!

Welcome back. From the weekend, I just landed. I got back into the state yesterday I flew in from Texas Another week Just a weekend in Texas Weekend in Texas family Reunion at my wife's family

So as you can imagine When you don't see a lot of family On the other side And then you fly out of state to visit them They don't know what to talk to you about So you just end up talking about your job So they're talking about football a weekend Got a lot of football to talk about suddenly

It's like news is flowing Right but they're all college people down there They don't really care But they did you know they told me I learned a lot about, no, these are, you know, into college football. And, you know, I learned, you had a lot of Bryce Petty discussions. I learned about the Josh Gordon drive-through incident while he was a bailer

when he passed out at a drive-thru. That was cool. And some sad stories about Vince Young. Who hasn't done that? Passed out of a drive-thru. Who went to UT, of course, and it has a steakhouse that he apparently hangs around. Were you, like, delivering multiple hot takes because you're like an NFL writer and they're just sitting around as you're holding court?

No. I barely existed there. It was just kind of like part of the wallpaper, occasionally dipped into the conversation. It was nice, though. How was your weekend, Sessler? You know, you had a little me time, a little alone time, which is a rare thing in a household where you normally two kids.

Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, every once in a while in a blue moon, just a little dash of solitude is not a bad thing. Also hung out with Wes a little bit on Saturday. Colleen Wolf and her husband, John, and Ali, Bamporty. Wow. I like Mark steering it away from what was going on in his house. when he was alone because you know there was something cooking. What does that mean?

I'm just saying, I know you something was cooking at that house when you had some times yourself. I'm going to leave it there. I'm just saying there was something cooking. Admit there was something cooking. I don't even, I would honestly, I have no idea what you're referencing, but I will go with it. By the way, dash of solitude, that was the name of Mark's first poetry collection. So, yeah, and Greg, do you have anything to share about you? No, I got nothing.

You know, I'm boring. Did you do anything? I don't know. Nothing excited. Played tennis? Here we go. I saw a friend. Exactly.

Local white plays tennis. Greg shifts quietly into eighth decade. Well, Dan, in fact, yes, I did meet a girl over the weekend. You did? Oh, yeah. Thanks for asking. Way to say, I didn't know you met a girl. Oh, yeah.

Well, all right. You brought it up. Was it your Earl Campbell long form? Dish, sister. I met her in Santa Monica before we all went out. on Saturday, hung out with her for a little bit. Good times. Was it a date?

It was more like she texted me that morning and said, why don't you stop by my shop where I work? And it was just a chance to meet and see if there would be a second meeting. Wow. And? There will be. Where, when? Later this week.

Either playing ping pong or going to dinner. Exact location. We're going to get some now cameras there. Is she flawed? Yes. I believe she is flawed. Excellent. But not broken beyond.

repair and that yeah that's an important distinction uh so wow pretty active weekend um all around uh but now we're back in it we're back in the middle of training camp a smack in the middle of training camp very busy time so we have a busy show with a lot of news uh which we're going to get into um you know who's who still hasn't reported to camp now is there anyone left mark the lions come out you know what lines get the camp that is ridiculous i am waiting for the narrative whenever something goes wrong for the lines this year. Oh, well, Jim Caldwell didn't have him in the training camp early enough. That's the reason why they're struggling. I saw Jim Caldwell in Texas sleeping on the, you know, the cabana thing. Sure.

At my parents, uh, lake house. My in-law's lake house. That's where he is. He's asleep at the switch. Vacation winds on. Anyway, so we're going to talk about all that. Uh, we're also going to play a game called arrow up, arrow down, where we look at, um, what we've seen so far from the teams that have been, you know, smart enough to get to work, Jim Caldwell. And, you know, who's off to a promising start? Who are we a little worried about? You know, who's a little slow out of the gate. So we're each going to throw out some different options there, player and team.

But before any of that, we check behind the glass, TD, parts unknown. Not with us today. But we do have the Irishman, Brandon McGuinist. Yeah. Patience is a virtue, finally. I'm looking at this as I survived the tropical island Everyone else is gone Right

Oh that's right Call back to our last show where is everyone else Where is Sully Sully's not here TD's off, who knows Wow, well it does you piece it together Brandon is here So the Irishman wins Despite his pale complexion

Looking tan Which I thought for a moment Maybe you were offended by But you know The Irish they don't have dark skin All right. Let's do some news, buddy. You got it. All right, let's start with some big Seahawks news, two big signings that we had been waiting on for some time and they finally go down.

First, Russell Wilson, the quarterback, signs a four-year contract extension worth 87.6 million includes a $31 million signing bonus, $61.53 million in guarantees. That's a $21.9 million average per season, just behind Aaron Rogers. and, Greg, four-year extension. That means he could hit the market again at age 30. Cha-ching. Well, I'm going to start with a random point, which is that it's not really the second-best quarterback contract behind Aaron Rogers at all.

It's a five-year deal worth $89 million, which is significantly better than the Joe Flacco contract or the Tony Romo, and I think you look at it as a contract that's good for both sides. I'm not going to get too caught up in the money thing, but ultimately I think it's a very team-friendly deal. and what Russell Wilson got in return was that he gets to be a free agent again when he's 30. I like what Greg tweeted out and wrote in his What We Learned on Friday, which was kind of a slapdown to all these people saying,

oh, the Seahawks, they've got all this money tied up with all these players. It's going to create issues. Well, what they have is an amazing core that's going to be together for the next three, four plus years, creating one of the larger Super Bowl windows we've seen in ages from, team as long as they have a front office and coaching staff that can identify young talent in the draft they won't what they won't be able to do is go out and free agency and spend on mid-tier guys that can make a difference you need to have you need you don't want to anyways really right and that's a very fair point but you you have to keep hitting on the second and third rounders and there's no reason

to think that they won't so yeah they're very well set up they have the best nucleus in the nfell russell wilson jimmy graham richard sherman earl thomas camp chancellor michael bennett Marshon Lynch, Bobby Wagner. There are teams in the NFL don't have one player as good as those guys. Those guys that you mentioned are all signed through 2017, which is crazy. And you left out a couple lesser players that you could throw in there. KJ. Wright's a very good player. Cliff Averill signed through 2017.

That is an insane core. And it's not like, okay, now they can be the top team in the league with that core sign long term. If you look at football outsiders numbers, which I trust a lot in terms of their team numbers, They have been the number one team in the league three straight years. People forget they were a great team in 2012. So they've already had a pretty wide open window, and it's going to be, you know, stay in it for the next few years. If they don't win another Super Bowl, it's a massive disappointment.

I agree. Russell. I think that's true. Russell Wilson tweeted a classic Russell Wilson, blessed to be with this organization for four more years. Can't wait to get on field with the fellas. Who says fellas anymore, Russ? Damashik.

Yeah, Damashik, for one. Yeah, but that's sticky. Let's face it. Well, actually, no, it's not because he talks in real life like that, too. Dave is the most interesting guy. I had a really sad dream. I should I talk. Here comes stand backpedaling, really bad, really big time on the damage at all.

I texted, I had a dream over the weekend while he was in Texas that Dave passed away. Oh, wow. Suddenly. And it was so vivid and detailed that my wife and I were driving to Dave's significant other's house to console her when I woke up. and I woke up sad, which showed that I really care for Dave, and I texted Shaq, and it's like, Shaq, you straight up died in my dream. Wow. I'm sure he didn't take that well, that it was some sort of Machiavelling thing

that you're secretly wishing for. I'll tell you what he replied. By the way, while we're talking dreams, not to get too far off, I had a very vivid dream. I'm not making this up. I meant to text to you guys about this, that we were at the Super Bowl, and the Giants won 35 to 32 over your New York jets and the big part of the dream was really i was feeling bad because i had assigned the

the game story to dan but then i realized as it was over i was like oh i shouldn't have assigned that to dan because he must be taking this hard since it was the jets that just lost the super you want me to interpret this dream okay it's uh there's a fondness you want there's some part of you wants to move back to new york wow that's interesting i like that by the way sheck's response was dream come true for everybody sorry you had to wake from it thanks for checking on my girl, though. That's hilarious. The Seahawks also signed Bobby Wagner,

their linebacker to a $43 million extension worth $22 million in guarantees. And Greg, you wrote this post of this thing that jumped out to me. You wrote that Wagner could be the number two player behind Earl Thomas in ranking irreplaceable Seahawks defenders. Richard Sherman's going to come get you, boy. I think when Wilson, when Wagner, rather, is that. at his best, that he would be harder to replace than Richard Sherman, just with their system. His speed and just everything he brings to them and him leading that linebacker group is unique.

Richard Sherman didn't get any MVP votes last year. Right, that's true. Bobby Wagner did. Thank you, Tony Dungey. I mean, he's, to me, he's also the guy calling the plays, Bobby Wagner. He's known, and you can just see him showing up. I'm thinking back to the Super Bowl, he had an unbelievable game in the Super Bowl when a lot of his defense who's supposed to be the greatest defense ever, you know, didn't play their best.

One thing about the Seahawks and talking about how long they'll be competitive, and I think they're a fun team to watch, so I don't have a problem with them staying this way, but they're a team that in 2012, you mentioned they were a great team that season at the end. They started to peak hard, and they firebombed the Niners 42 to 13 on a Sunday night game, and I happened to be off, but this was the moment that the Seahawks became alive to me completely. I was at this place Irish times that Wes has been to you with me, so as Dan a few times. But no one's there, and you can watch the game. But there was this Seahawks fan in a button-up, like,

a Niners fan in a button-up red sweater, drinking like a glass of white wine, thinking his team is just going to keep rolling. Sounds like a 49ers fan. Seahawks Airbomb, and this guy's like a casual fan that had never heard of Russell Wilson or anyone. He's just standing and they're going, who are these people?

What is this team? I was like, the Seahawks are born. And they're, I don't think they're underrated in any way, but their level of dominance for three straight years, years, we haven't seen a lot of that, even out of the Patriots or the Colts, the only teams that are vaguely similar since 2000 are teams run by Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. But this is a three-year run where you could see it another three or four years, and you didn't really see it at that high level, even from Pitt, Pat's or Colts.

One thing, though, only one Super Bowl trophy out of it. So, yes, it's been a dominant run so far, but you almost put them ahead of the Seahawk, or the Patriots, Patriots were winning rings. And I, you know, also Doug Baldwin begs to differ with. you on whether the Seahawks are underrated or not. It's fair. All right. Moving on.

So good job, Seahawks. You will be good for some time. I like the Dan defending the Pats there. Well, I'm just saying, you got to win it. You got to win it. And there was a time where the 49ers, you were just referencing the wind of the future was endless and they were going to be good for years. But there does seem to be a difference, especially at the quarter requisition,

that Russell Wilson is going to be great for a long, long time. All right. Moving on, the Eagles have made another trade sending cornerback Brandon Boykin to the Steelers for a conditional fifth round pick in 2016. Kind of surprising move, Boykin has been their slot guy for some time and he's been effective, but he never was going to get a roll on the outside, I guess, as a cornerback, despite the Steelers not having a lot of talent there. Excuse me, the Eagles having a lot of talent there.

And, you know, afterwards then, of course, the more drama with Boykin coming out and saying that, that Chip Kelly was uncomfortable with men of our culture. So bringing that race thing up again regarding Chip Kelly. He later backed off it a little bit and speaking with Judy Batista of NFL media about it. But Chip Kelly again dealing with fallout of getting one of his players and race being tied back to it. Well, I think Boykin said he's not a racist in any way and then explained it in his mind that he just doesn't know how to talk to players. It's almost more of like a human thing. He brought up the example of just passing him other players in the hall and not talking to him.

Now, that's something you can see Bill Belichick and plenty of coaches kind of being like, but I guess you need the results. Sensitive millennials. That's what we're dealing with here. Well, he did say, I'm just saying there were times people wanted to be able to relate to him better and it didn't happen. That people were asking to trying to maybe get to know him and just there's nothing there. He's weird. Well, it might be something to the learning curve for Chip Kelly.

I think Bill Belichick would say that he's gotten better. at relating to players and at least having like some sense of humor. I think Nick Saban really struggled with that coming from college. Maybe that's a little bit where the college coach thing hurts him. Can't you see in like five years, Chip Kelly wins a Super Bowl and they're doing some profile on him on CBS or Fox and like the new chip and he's like, he's friends with players and they come over for Thanksgiving.

Like Tom Coughlin. Like the point of making is, yeah, maybe he will learn how to do this because he, in college, I guess you didn't have to be that guy. But at the pro level, I think some of these guys are like, listen, you can't treat us like college kids were grown men. Well, I think what's even odder, though, is that you'd think at the college level there would be more fraternizing, more kind of raw-rah-type coaches than at the pro level. I do expect them to be more robotic and removed and people walking by each other in the hallway. I think from the Steelers point of view on this, their second round pick, Senkes-Goulson, right as we were going up to podcast, there was a story in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette that he might need season.

ending surgery already on his shoulder. So he was supposed to play the slot. Boykin comes in. He's one of the best slot corners in the NFL. I can see why Chip Kelly, who has pretty strict physical requirements, the cornerbacks have to be tall with long arms, and your knee has to be X amount of width. I can see how Boykin fell out of favor there. Well, and Boykin was in the last year of his contract. I think they just had made a decision. He wasn't a guy that they were going to resign, so now they're getting something for him, a four-year player, whether it's a fifth or fourth-round pick. I think you have to be careful, though, trading around trading veterans who are good contributors. And for the Steelers, I think this could be a really big move.

I mean, it's a good move for them. They're a Super Bowl potential type of team. And even if it's a guy who's only helping him for one year, he might be the best cornerback on their team right now. And you just pick that up for a mid-round pick. And yeah, I think this Chip Kelly, this will be one of the more interesting potlines. He's traded away a lot of talent. He believes in a scheme above all else. But at what point do you trade away too much talent? I mean, is he trusting his scheme too much is the question. Well, I think part of it, is he has to feel confident that he has a long leash and a lot of time to create this super team that West just pointed out at certain types of physicality for certain positions.

And he certainly wants everyone to buy into the culture. And that's not going to happen. You're not going to get that roster in two seasons. Well, part of the system is trusting that you can replace a lot of people fast and that they'll be okay. I don't think he cares as much about continuity as the average coach. He had an entirely new secondary last year. It did not work last year.

think about what they have now. Eric Rowe, their second round pick is probably going to be starting. Byron Maxwell is a free agent pickup. And now the favorite to replace Boykin is a sixth round pick named Jacori Shepard, who they like a lot. And so that's an entirely new group. You know the other team that does that, especially with their offensive skill players, the Patriots.

They rotate more guys in and out year to year than any team around. And every season, it's how is this guy going to do it? And then they do it. Kelly needs his Tom Brady if that's going to work. That's fair. Moving on. And we touched on this a little bit because it was breaking while we were doing the show on Thursday. Sheldon Richardson, the Jets' defensive tackle.

The news came to light both to us, you know, fans in the media and the Jets that he had been arrested, charged with a resisting arrest and various traffic violations back in July, an incident in his hometown in Missouri. And the 24-year-old pro bowler was clocked at speeds of up to 100. 143 miles per hour. And a Bentley, there was a 12-year-old kid in the back seat. This prompted a lot of wild speculation on Twitter that this was the end of Sheldon Richardson in the NFL, but he's going to say he's dodged any serious felony charges, and it's just going to be that resisting arrest charge.

But at the same time, this happened right after his suspension for the use of drugs, marijuana. And now the Jets don't know what to do with this guy, and they don't know when he's going to get back on the field. If I'm ranking dumb hot takes of the week, number one is that Seahawks sort of hot take. Oh, they've got too many great players under long contracts. That's going to really come back to haunt them. And number two was the report where Sheldon Richardson's career might be over in the wake of this. That came out as a tweet three different NFL sources, which seemed totally bizarre. Within a day, this is already backed off.

It's a big problem for Sheldon Richardson and the Jets. But it's already backed off the child endangerment charges, as you mentioned. with drug charges involved, it's ultimately going to be traffic. And it's a problem for him. Resisting rest is a bad thing. But saying his career is going to be over is insane. People won't even remember this a year from now. Junior Gillette was out of the league for three days.

I mean, there's not a way. He got lucky. If it would have been the child in danger for charge, then you're looking at, you know, you're looking at all the type of problems that Adrian Peterson had last year, where the league will be forced to act in its mind potentially and he'll end up sitting. As it stands now, it's not going to go down this way. Todd Bowles talked about, um, literally,

an issue they're having right now, which is, can we trust this guy? Michael McCagman said Bowles talked about the idea that he's a guy that has problems right now. He's remorseful. I mean, you know, it's hard to say a good guy when two things like this happened, but he's a good guy, but good guys don't always do the right things, and he's a young man, and you don't get too many chances to turn your life around, and right now he's going down a spiraling road, and he understands or he needs to understand that he needs to turn his life around, and this has nothing to do with football.

See, one thing there, I mean, what we know about him is what's out there about him, but what the coach is in the front office and the scouts and everyone that works with them day to day, they know him up front, and so they're going to make the final judgment on whether a good guy doesn't mean much. It doesn't mean much. Well, it means whether he's a good guy or a bad guy, and they said they've lost some trust in him, he's going to miss more time this year than just the first four games of the season. We think you would imagine that the suspension that he has to start the season is either going to get extended or he'll come back and then he'll get suspended again.

Who knows how long these things play out. But this is a guy in his contract. You're trying to make that money, trying to help the Jets win games, and he's going to miss a big chunk of the season. So two weeks, less than two weeks after the suspension, he got suspended. The other thing that police noted that there was a strong scent of marijuana in the car. Now, it's not to say he was smoking the weed in the car. but, I mean, obviously he's making some crappy decisions right now. And I'm worried about it.

In the hot take that he's not going to play again is absurd, and I think everyone sees that. But the fact that he may not play for the Jets again is not absurd. I think that's absurd too. I now think that's absurd. After this season, I don't think they're going to, they may not keep him around, that's all. Clarify he's not into contract here, is he?

No. This is only 30. Wilkerson. Yeah, my fault. Mo Wilkerson, but it is something that could eventually affect Sheldon Richards' money. And I think he will be back. I think he'll be playing with the Jets this year.

Why not? Yeah, I think this happened in late July, early August. By November, it'll be an afterthought. Speaking of Bonehead off the field moves, the bills have suspended Aaron Cromer, their offensive line coach for the first six games of the 2015 season. Team announced Sunday. Of course, Cromer was arrested for allegedly punching a teenage boy

around near his house because some, boys were fishing near his property and he didn't want them on the chairs so he ended up getting into a scuffle and punching the boy allegedly the charges were dropped but apparently enough went down that the bill said you got to go away for six weeks and cromer suspended well the charges were dropped but a settlement was reached between cromer and and the family of the boy so we don't that's going to be confidential but someone got paid i mean Greg when you were young if you ever branch out into a neighbor's yard and just sit on their chairs and play around on their furniture? I kept them myself.

You know, I went over the Nelson's across the street a little bit. I just mess with the neighbor's stuff. Sure. We were relatively well-behaved, I think. Well, I'm not saying we were like hooligan setting the lawn on fire, but I'm just, you know, you're... By the way, Aaron Crumman, he was also the snitch or the guy behind the scenes in Chicago, if everyone remembers, that talk badly about Jay Cutler and then tearfully abolished. apologize to the quarterback, Jay, after it came out in the media.

So, Aaron Krober, I kind of, by the way, the police report also said that he threatened to kill the boys' family if they went to the police. So Aaron Kromer had a good team to be, you know, build a bully. I mean, just imagine, I've been honking about the whole Richardson thing that, of course, it's not going to be the end of his career. The NFL, if you have a modicum of talent that belongs in the league, you're going to get extra chances. and Aaron Kromer's getting an extra chance and you know who he's going to be coaching in week seven is Richie Incognito when he comes back I mean that's a great combo

the Kromer Incognito second chance tour And to speak to Greg's point of talent connecting With getting a job even if you're a jerk Junior Gillette has reached a one-year deal With the Redskins released after you know less than a week After his release from the Saints He joins the Redskins Of course Gillette's career in New Orleans

went down in flames shortly after signing a big extension last September. He ended up getting $18 million for 10 months with the Saints. And now he's on a one-year deal with the Redskins. Greg, you'll get into why it's a very interesting deal. But the quote that jumped out to me was Junior Collette. I'm just thankful to be with such a functional organization. Referring to the Redskins. Ridiculous.

I mean, Wes is shaking his head. They're quite possibly the most dysfunctional organization in the NFL over the past half decade. And I think Greg, you know, tweeted the other day, good tweet. The Saints seem dysfunctional after handing this guy 18 million. The Redskins, to me, seem even more dysfunctional for signing a headcase like this. See, I don't agree that it's, when you're the Redskins and you've got nothing going on and your defense was one of the worst last year, then suddenly in early August, late July, a premier pass rusher becomes available and you're a new GM. I don't know. Yeah, they didn't pay him much money. It got them for the league minimum. Yeah, for the league minimum,

and you can just cut them any time you feel like it if he says something stupid. I mean, this is the way to take a chance. I just have major issues with Ray Rice getting blackballed, what happened with Adrian Peterson all last year, these long suspensions, and then Junior Galette is just allowed to come in and sign, and people like Peter King are praising it as a great move. I agree. From a football side, I don't have a problem with to sign it. There is something going on. Last year was probably the worst time ever to do anything is a player that goes on the radar. And they got caught up in that, I believe.

And it is uneven with what happened with Galette here. It's uneven. I hear you on that. But I don't know from a football side. I don't have a problem taking a swing in a player that has a lot of upside defensive. It's coming off a torn pet floral muscle too. This is bad teams do that. And they get to match his contract next year, which you never hear about.

I don't know if I've ever heard of that, a right to first refusal next year. So it's a very team-friendly contract for what it's worth. But I understand it. And I understand it's like, do you really trust Jay Gruden to handle another personality? Because there's a lot of, that's a team that has a weird sort of mix. Well, it's honestly going to come down to not so much Jay Gruden than his position coach and his defensive coordinator. That's who spends all the time with him.

And hopefully those guys all had a chance to sign off on it. But it's the point we just made with all these players. The guy can play. He's going to get another chance. There's no way he's going to sit on his butt all off season. I understand making mistakes. We all do. but this guy has shown, like, not even a modicum of remorse.

The reason I... Even when he's science, he takes a crack at the stuff. Yeah, I mean, I think that's an important part of the process. You have to go through a humbling and a reevaluation of your life, like other players have had to do. This guy isn't being forced to do that. The difference, Mark, what I was saying when I think it's a desperate move, it's like you're taking a guy with talent and you're a team that hasn't won,

you've finished last place seven out of eight years, and you know he's a cancer in a locker room, and he's fresh off that locker room. And you're going to bring them in. Yeah, you can get rid of them quickly, but what's the damage the guy can do? I just feel like a good team, the Steelers, the Giants, they would never bring in a guy like this. But the Redskins do. That's fair.

I just think that if you're Jay Gruden, you have to go into the season knowing that there's maybe only one or two other coaches on as burning a hot seat as you are. And you have a new GM who might want to get rid of you in one year. You're having issues with the owner over the starting quarterback. If you can get someone in there that can sack the quarterback, it's the hardest position to find this time of the year. some coaches are going to do it. Most said no. Moving on, Mark, speaking of the quarterback position. Where are we speaking of the quarterback position?

It doesn't matter. He said the words quarterback position. Excellent transition. Thank you. So Dwayne Bo, who's your boy, who's the star-wide receiver on your favorite team, the Cleveland Bears. All right, that will be fine. Had this to say about Josh McCown, your middling starter.

Quote, he's showing all the potential of being a top five quarterback in the NFL, Bo said. And Mark, you wrote a heat-seeking missile on our site that began your writing, where to begin. So, Mark, begin. Well, I mean, in response. He's calling him a potential top five. McCown is in the bottom five of starters. And he's not even a starter in most teams' eyes. So, you know, I guess you'd have to really look at even in the AFC North. If you're an Andy Dalton fan, he's not even in the top three in the AFC North, Josh McCown. What does it say about Alex Smith that he spends a few days in Brown's camp

and he's already considering Josh McCown in top five. Well, that this is the same day that Dwayne Bo also said that he's never seen a receiver, you know, adapt to the position as fast as Terrell prior. First of all, how many receivers have seen do that? He also said that the practice, I think it was the second day of Brown's practice, one of the best practices he's been a part of in nine years, right? And Joe Hayden is the best cornerbacks he's seen since Champaign, I like Dwayne Bo that at least he's positive.

Listen, the one thing that when it comes to Josh McCown, though, I think what he's done, they had issues last year, obviously, with Mansell and Hoyer. And I think that McCown has come in and just been a veteran that all the players like. They like him. He's not a head case. He's not a me first dude.

That's the good part. Can he play? Come on. I mean, has he never played 16 games in one season? I thought he went a little too far, Bo, when he said Berea was one of the top three vacation destination. He did not say in the entire world. Let's sum up this article with Mark Sessler's conclusion.

If nothing else, his beautiful mind sees proud tomorrows for a team long trapped in a dystopian hellscape. Well, they have been, it's been a hellscape. That was on NFL.com. I asked, when I was writing this, I asked Wes, would you rather go into a season with a talented team knowing that you can have for 16 games, no injury, Andy Dalton or Josh McCallon. and you struggle with the answer. You had to think about it. I eventually conceded Dalton, but I could see how if you want your quarterback to not make mistakes

in a big game, you might lean towards anybody but Dalton. You're also the biggest McCown fan there is. That's fair. Other than Twain Bow. Mark, I think I figured it out. I think I figured it. Josh McCown just misses being a top five quarterback in the AFC North. So we've got Big Ben, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton,

Terrell Pryor, put him ahead. Matt Schaub. Oh, not Matt Schaub. All right, A.J. McCarron. And then I'll slot in Josh McCown right at number six. Just misses it. Well, then they already have a top five quarterback on the team. Landry Jones, I would put ahead of it.

No way. Andrew Jones. Come on, Greg. Come on the boss. That is what's happening. By the way, the reason TD isn't here, or at least part of the reason is he flew to Texas. Apparently the league bankroll, the flight. and hotel accommodations to Texas for the podcast. What was this called?

The Academy of Podcasters Awards and HOF ceremony. In Fort Worth, Texas, we were nominated. You know, we didn't hear from TV. And when you don't hear from your producer, well, we usually don't hear from our producer, whether the show is happening or not. But we did not hear. So Greg reached out and what happened?

More days later. I did reach out, and he told us we did not win the award. What? That's an outrage. What's happened if it became up short? Grantland's Jalen and Jacoby won the word. But T.D. Grantlin still exists?

Did tell me what he's learned. This is what he took away from three days at this conference. He said, encourage listeners to subscribe to the show. That's going to put you in the top 20 in the iTunes. So if you're out there and you haven't subscribed for some reason, then subscribe. On iTunes. I could have told T.D. Have we not been banging that drum for years?

Not enough, probably not enough. You know, you got to, you know, we sometimes say leave the comments, you leave the stars, but it's really about subscribing. So it costs like, what, $7,000 to bankroll TD to go and learn to tell us to subscribe. Or tell your friends to subscribe. I was under the assumption that everybody listening was a subscriber. That's probably. I guess tell your friends.

That's probably true. Maybe subscribe on like four different. This has been a massive point of departure in TD's career, I can tell this weekend. Just come back with a lot of information. What's up, fellas, there can only be one. champion and you did not win in Fort Worth, but maybe next time. He said he did, first of all, I said, did you confront anyone about this, about us not winning? Because I would have done that.

He said he was disappointed, but he met a guy on the panel that did say he voted for us. Who knows? Maybe that guy was lying. Speaking of Texas, my sad Vince Young story in Texas, he lives in Austin. He has a steakhouse. there and he eats many meals at the steakhouse. Kind of like the whole story? It's like a late period.

Well, it's most of the story. I can't tell the whole story. It's just kind of sad. I feel like you're leaving something out there. I'll tell you guys later. But Vince is around and he's a lot of handshakes and he's not in a rush to leave if he meet him. I think he has some time.

Are you saying he swallowed the skipper? No. What does that mean? Oh, it's a line from Billy Madison where they're out on the boat and he says he He looked like he swallowed the skipper. Hey, Gilligan, did you swallow his skipper? What, like he's overweight? Yeah.

No, he said he eats a lot of meals there. He was just trying to add for teams last year. That's where he gets free meals. Oh, okay. All right. Moving on. You know, you learn a lot about Texas football when you go down to Texas. Not all of it's like NFL headlines, but you learn about certain things.

Who's this girl, Wes? What's her name? It's not far enough along for me to be dropping names. Okay. Is she from California? Not originally Her name is Shelly Ann With a hyphen in between

Shelly and Ann All right Arrow Up Arrow Down That is the segment Kind of like a stock watch Sort of Not stock up stock down Dare you say it's a winners and losers

I would not be judging Winners and losers after a few days of training camp But that's just me Okay so this will be our opportunity To each give one Player or team Where things are looking good The arrows up

And conversely a player team where the arrow is pointing downward and I look over to the quiet storm who's organizing his papers it looks like he's ready to fire so I might as well throw it to him Arrow up Mark. We arrow up I'm going to go Terrell Pryor.

Now I'm not, Wes, I'm not calling him a lifelong winner of this training camp or this season but the early press is good because I think number one people thought is he going to be a malcontent and not take this so-called quarterback to receiver switch even seriously? Is he just trying to hang on and maybe enough quarterbacks get injured and he gets back into that conversation?

But no, it sounds like from his position coach basically said he's fast, he's huge. And Joe Hayden said it looks like it would work covering him. It looks like this could work. And we'll find out. I mean, you had to go into games and do it. But his position coach raved about him. He just said, the guy's talented, talent wins ball games in a Cleveland Brown's team. Is he one of the 53 best players?

If you look at the back end of that wide receiver group, I think he's. is a chance because what was that again? Talent wins ball games. I'm writing that down. I'm looking at a sheet of paper with some quotes on there. You find it damning or concerning that Dwayne Boe who is, you know, praising the janitor at that Indian burial ground that they called Brown's camp didn't say anything about Troll Barrier? No, he did. Oh, he did? Yeah. I missed that. He loved them. The most telling thing about Prior was that he's getting some snaps with the first team. That just tells me that, no, I really mean it. Well, he got, he got first team snaps. What? What? He is. He just became a wide receiver yesterday.

Hold on, but before this turns into a chaotic nonsense, like there were some players taking arrest and stuff. That's why it wasn't, he's our first team. I know that, but even that the coaches are mixing them in with the first teamers, that they take it seriously enough. It's not just some clown show on the side. Well, here's a thing. He's 6-4-232.

You know what? I get what you're saying, Mark. The arrow is up for Treel Parr right now. He's going in the right direction. Over three days of camp. Yes. I was being serious about the part that he's getting into the mix with the first team. It does show that I think they're taking it seriously as a guy who can make the team,

which I wouldn't have necessarily thought right away. They don't have anyone. They don't have anyone with that size speed coming. That's why it helps them because I think they, if we're going to say they have the lamest group of wideouts in the whole league, then he's landed on the right team. This is why sometimes I worry is Mark still a fan of the Browns just now. How upset Mark out there's no. No, because you know what?

Because you want Terrell prior to work. Oh, stop it. That's what we do. Enough is enough. I wasn't even cracking off. You took it that way. You're the one. You're sensitive because you want to roll fire to work.

Indian burial ground. When you, this is not unlike the Redskins. When you root for a bad team, this is the time of year where you hope someone that no one was expecting when play meaningful snaps can do it and do it well. Yes. Okay. Sorry. Let's move up. Charles Johnson.

Arrow up, Chris Wesley. You were laughing at Charles Johnson a year and a half ago. Wow, we liked it. is that guy what's going on with charles johnson did i miss it did he have his ascendance yet oh he started pretty well got a stretch later all right here we go all right arrow up chris wesley gino actkins who uh at the end of last year his defensive coordinator paul gunther said he was just a guy in 2004 jagg wasn't the all pro that he was in 2012 i mean we forget that this guy was battling j j watt for defensive player of the year in 2012 they were the two

best defensive alignment in football gross one of the coaches said in the offseason It's scary how good, how explosive and fast Gino Ackins is playing. And then in the first week of camp, the Bengals website said, at this moment, this guy is the best player on the field on either side of the ball. Kevin Zitler, one of the best guards in the league, has his handsful just trying to block this guy. He looks like, to me, he's back, and the Bengals need that because as loaded as their offense is, their only difference makers on defense, really, are Gino Ackins and Vontes Burfect. And Burfect is a question mark to open the season.

They were last in sacks last year. This is one guy that can generate sacks from the inside. And I wonder with some of these dudes that are huge, that it's going to take more than one year to get off an injury like he had. If you're smaller and you're not putting as much weight and stuff on that body over the course, but he was just a dude last season, but it may be now he's fully healthy. He's who he was.

Well, when the coaches got on him, they weren't too tricky about his conditioning and everything like that. Maybe he didn't work hard enough to, too, get back from that injury. And when I look at the Bengals, their defense, everyone forgot when their defense changed defensive coordinators last, I mean, they got a lot worse. They were significantly worse. And the only way they're going to get better is if guys like Johnson and, I mean,

Atkins and Michael Johnson, who's now back on the team and is going to be out four weeks with the sprained MCL, you know, suddenly improves because on paper they don't look any better. Greg, your winner or, excuse me, your arrow going up with it. My arrow going up is for Sammy Bradford. Go, go for it. It was only a week ago, and we, you know, we're putting sandwiches on the line. Him versus Darren McFadden, who's going to practice? You put a sandwich.

Who's going to start week one? I got Wes and Cessler on the hook right now. I'm feeling good. Who's going to start week one, Bradford or Mark Sanchez? And at least to begin with, he's fully healthy or at least not limited to start camp. And Chip Kelly gave Bradford all of the first team reps on Sunday. I think that's kind of a statement saying this isn't a competition. Bradford's a guy.

He's healthy right now. If it stays that way, he'll be the guy week one. I think it says a lot about Chip Kelly that even though over and over and over again, he's stated that he wants Bradford to be his guy this season, that no one even believes him. It's even until we finally see him take every single raptor. We're like, oh, maybe Kelly's not just going to send him away for a box of canned tomatoes two days. If he had his way, if the draft shook out differently,

Marcus Mariotto would probably be his quarterback, no matter what he says. I would believe him if he didn't come straight out and say, look, this is a quarterback competition, which is weird to say, he said this in the offseason. Yeah, it's a legitimate competition. And a legitimate competition isn't giving all the first team reps to one guy. And supposedly Bradford didn't look great in his first practice or two, so that'll be something to watch. You wouldn't necessarily expect him to be great.

His first team drills in over a year. But he's setting up that this is really Bradford's to lose, that things are going to have to go terribly for him this month to lose it. A winner for me is the giant's wide receiver combo of Odell Beckham Jr. and Victor Cruz. Beckham is N. Cruz both not on the PUP list. They're practicing to start training camp. Beckham, this is important because he had the hamstring issues again, crop up during the off-season practices, but it looks like he'll be okay. And Victor Cruz having that serious knee injury he's coming back from reports that he's looking good. So think about it. If Cruz is Cruz again, and Beckham is what we all know he is, which is amazing. that is easily, West, when you write your your tandem wide receivers column, which you did last year, if you did it again this year, if those guys are at full health,

there's very few tandums that would be better than those two, right? Greenback? Yeah, that's a good possibility. I guess with Victor Cruz, I'll believe it when I see it. I mean, I just, a torn Patelor tendon, I just don't think he's going to be able to cut and explode like he did before that. So I guess I'm a skeptic when it comes to him.

The other guy, like Ruben Randall, played well down the stretch too. They have more than just two guys. I think that offense is going to be staring. The son James Jones, too, right? Yeah. They got some players. I don't even know if he'll make the team.

Yeah, he's a roster bubble. Cruz supposedly looks solid. I mean, it's a great sign he's out there on the field. Sometimes avoiding the Pup list, you know, that's nice. But we talked about Gurley, for instance, last week, Todd Gryl. And he avoided the Pup list, but he's still only doing individual drills. They're still, you know, working him along pretty slow. He's not fully healthy at all.

So I agree with Wes. I'll kind of believe it when I see it with Cruz. All right, guys. A lot of skeptics. See, I'm not taking it personally, though, Mark. See? Well, you're not talking about the Jets. You're talking about the other New York team.

I will be getting to the Jets. But in Europe, a former Browns player is in your arrow-down. Well, it has to be. I mean, it's funny how that works. There's no way that you can. No, no, it's Trent Richardson. Yeah. This is the guy that I have a sandwich wager with Dan on.

We've mentioned this where if he plays one more snap ever, Dan gives me a sandwich. So I thought at some point, he's only 24 years old, he's going to play another snap. But now I'm wondering. Because the report out of Oakland is that from NFL Media Insider, Ian Rappaport, a 50-50 chance to make the team. The guy is on the NFI list.

He showed up. He didn't show up fat. But they wanted him down to 220, and he did not make, he did not reach his goal in the offseason. This is a guy with a 3.3 yards per area career average. I don't know. They've got Michael Dyer there who's jumped out of camp, they said. And they've got the immortal.

Michael Dyer. You could go to all the other podcasts in the world on the site wherever. You're not finding Michael Dyer here anywhere else. That's coming to you straight from the system. Michael Dyer was the starter or played with the Cam Newton's Auburn National Championship team. Then his career in college. Mark, spiraled. Do you see now why I've always been so confident about this?

Because I always thought true talent or true lack of talent would win out. He doesn't have the talent nor the drive. I got a hot take on this. Okay. I am going to compliment the Raiders. One of the reasons why Trent Richardson was terrible with the Colts was because he could never get to his ideal playing weight. The Raiders are saying you can't take the field until you get to what we see as your ideal playing weight, which is probably 15 pounds lighter than he was in Cleveland.

And I've seen reports from guys who saw Trent Richardson said he's in great shape right now. It's just not quite to where the Raiders won him. coaches said that, too, that he is, that he came in close. They weren't, they weren't killing the guy. Yeah, that's great, but Latavius Murray is their starter. Hulu is a great third down back. And then suddenly your number three back who doesn't play special teams, you've got to try to make the team.

So he's got an uphill battle. Let's not act like Latavius Murray is Adrian Peterson here. Hey. They like him a lot, though. Well, let's not exactly entrenched. You're suddenly acting like, you know, Reggie McKenzie, your boy. And Jack Del Rio are like, you know, geniuses for having a wave of them. Because you could also, you could also, if he is actually in good condition,

it's just they're getting caught up in the semantic, then it's like, that's not necessarily a good decision either. Let him on the field, let him play if he's actually in good shape. No, I think you have to. If he's 221 instead of 220, get him on the hall. You need the carrot and the stick with Trent. He has to stay motivated. Oh, cut this guy.

Get him out of football. You're right, though. When he left the Browns, there were not too many people crying about it. Yeah. Because of what was going on behind the scenes. I think the cults found the same thing. He had a suspension to end last year, right? And now the Raiders, who, yeah, they're one of those teams that can't turn a lot of players away,

but they will turn him away. And I've agreed to give Dan a sandwich in week four if he takes no snaps. But if he does, even three years from now play again, you owe me two sandwiches. Sure. You know what? That's fine with me. I'm on the sandwich comeback trail. Wes, give me an arrow downer.

I don't have any arrow downers because I don't believe there can be losers after a few days of training camp. Give us another winner, man. Who has a stock up? Marcus, wait, wait a second. We're not going to let that pass. This is the second time in two shows, West, you're undercutting one of our segments. There's nobody you've been a little bit, oh, that's interesting about, or you've thought maybe there's some reason to be alarmed about anything in the NFL right now?

Stock down. I would say maybe Junior Gillette and the Redskins, but we already talked about that. All right, good. Well, this, I know who you're going to say for your stock up. It kind of goes along with another guy being stocked down. But go ahead. Wait, are you going to say Martavis Brian is stock down? Well, he might struggle to get as many snaps as some fantasy owners are looking for.

Well, yeah, Ben Rothesberger came out this weekend and said that Marcus Wheaton, he thinks, will be the Steelers breakout player of the year. And you know what? That could be just him kind of trying to light a fire under a guy who's an important player for them. But he also talked about Wheaton will be in two wide receiver sets alongside Antonio Brown and then moving to the slot in three wide sets. So the takeaway to me is he's playing more snaps than Martavis Bryant. And Martavis Bryant had a minor surgery.

Ben Rathesberger talking up Wheaton. I mean, if you're drafting Martavis Bryant in the sixth round of fantasy drafts, that would be a little bit of a stock down. Well, that's where some people are doing it too. Right. His name shot through the roof. NFL media is Albert Breer in one of his stories last week reported before Big Ben made these comments that the coaches told him

that Wheaton had the best offseason of all their wide receivers. Wheaton is a good. he does make fancy red zone catches. Like he makes tough catches. He hasn't stood out at times. He was on her making the leap list last summer. Yeah, maybe one week too early. One year too early.

That's our thing. It happens. Greg, arrow down. Well, I know Stephen Hill's not exactly a big-time player in the NFL right now, but his week was so bad that I felt like it had to be noted. On Wednesday, he was cited for a drug paraphernalia charge after a routine traffic stop. I think what did he have with them you guys remember he had

I think two grinders yeah he had some drug paraphernalia allows you to and Brandon McGinnis behind the glass told me about this it allows you to take marijuana buds and crush them in a way that you can then put them into some type of you know whether it be a bowl or a joint or a cigar

vape pen who knows a lot of different things you can do with drugs and I wouldn't say do any of them so on Wednesday that happens Brandon did not tell me that by the way that was a joke Oh, so this is all hands as homegrown information. Yeah, that's just information you know. I totally believe.

Brandon definitely looks like a guy who has the inside scoop on this. Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, as you can see, he was so believable with saying that. Brandon's on his way to the Grateful Dead Fish Reunion Show. Sully, maybe. So that happens to Hill on Wednesday. On Saturday, he unfortunately tears his ACL at Panthers Camp. and then on Sunday he gets released by the team.

It's a brutal week. And for a guy who, for what it's worth, people were talking up as having a great offseason that he was going to make the team and everything. And it just shows like how fast your fortunes can change in the NFL. And that's a good segue to my arrow down because Stephen Hill, Greg, was a former second round pick of the Jets.

The Jets second round pick this year is Devin Smith, a wide receiver. And he has some busted ribs that he hurt in practice that they're making a really nice catch. He's expected to miss the rest of training camp. And that's just, you know, not a good start for the Jets to camp. Not only have Devin Smith, who is supposed to be a big part of their offense, who is now going to be way behind the ball with this rib injury. You have, of course, as we talked about, Sheldon Richardson,

and that's a major issue hanging over camp now, which you don't like. And then more minor, but something to watch Mo Wilkerson tweaked his hamstring in practice so he couldn't miss a little bit of time. So you put those three together. I'm not thrilled. but the Devin Smith thing, especially to me, is bad because I think they have big designs on him and you take a rookie and take him out of his first training camp,

that could meet a situation where you look back in January and you're like, oh, why didn't Devin Smith work? And they could just point to that. He never got on track. Dan, I want to check your P-level. Yeah. Week 1 Brown's Jets in New York. Where are you?

I would be very confident that Jets defense will find a way to stop the iconic Answer the question. Top five quarterback, Josh McCown. My P's scale level is at one and a half. Wow. Mine is much higher because I've already noted, I've told Dan, the Jets will win that game 42 to 3.

Well, no, I like the angle you're taking, but your Terrell prior meltdown before betrays the fact that you're still very optimistic about this team. I think that could be very close game. I'm not optimistic. I just don't like them being treated as a sub-NFL team. There's 31 NFL teams, and then there's the Browns, and that's how we treat them.

That's fair. Jets arrow up. Whoa. Look at Devin Smith. I mean, this guy was going to be their fourth receiver. A couple of years ago, he would have been the best player on their offense. Okay, I like that. But Dan's right that rookies that miss training camp,

a lot of times they never really recover from that. Now, if you're over the Beckham, it doesn't matter. But like Kevin White, for instance, has not practiced in Chicago. It sounds like he might not for another week or more. And like, sometimes that's tough to catch up on. Where were Devin Smith snaps going to come from as a rookie? I think they were going to use them. as a guy that they would send deep.

I think he was going to have a role in that offense. Yeah, probably like 10 snaps a game maybe. Oh, come on. No, I would have thought more. If it all went well. Decker, Marshall, and then Jeremy Curley is a good slot. I don't see Devin Smith coming in and playing big snaps even if he was held. I think there was buzz that Jeremy Curley could see a decrease in time if they fell in love

with Devin Smith. Well, there's still time for this to happen. Yeah, for sure. It's not the end. Jet season is over. Three and 13. By the additional winner. Jeremy Curley, their best receiver for the past three or five.

years is now like an afterthought. That's good. That's what he should be. The additional winner, Arrow Up, Philip Rivers' prolific private parts. Whoa. Phil and his wife, Tiffany, are expecting their sixth daughter,

which will bring the total count to eight children, this from Gil Brandt. It's a lot of kids. That's major news for Gil Brand to be breaking. He broke the news? I think he did break the news. I even know his source on it. He's going to be like 91 years old,

Philip Rivers one day and have like 200. 148 grandchildren sitting around them. I think it's going to pay off big time. We had seven kids in my family, only four grandkids, I think. Well, I can't explain that. That was like a reaction to that. I don't want to bring more kids into this madness of a world. Healthy, just like you, Wessling, a healthy, robust Catholic family,

Philip Rivers raising. Also, his wife named Tiffany, if you were born between 1980 and 1989 and your name was Tiffany, you were an attractive person. You're attractive. No, that's true. I had a name one unattractive Tiffany. Because nobody gets named Tiffany anymore, not really. But in the 80s, it was the rage.

And every one of those women grew up to be attractive. Every one of the unattractive. That's a fair point. That's a lot of pressure you're putting on your daughter, but I guess they all come. It's almost like there's something that it clicks inside. I don't know. Well, she's the real star in the household. I mean, eight kids.

Oh, God bless her. That's what a woman. Never met her, but that's both of them. You know, great role. models. I wonder he wants a bigger contract. That's a lot of mouths to feed. You know, handsome Hank, you know, Damashek's cohort, has three kids.

And when I go over his house. I like to think of him as a sidekick. That's one way to put it. When I go over to his house, it's, you know, a war zone. There's just little kids running all over the place. I have two in my backyard half the time looks like, you know, a low-level 1986 Detroit scenario. I mean, there's like, couldn't, there's like 600 toys and hammers and scissors and

newspaper flowing across my yard. Oh, Detroit and 86. Are there any homeless people in your backyard? No. Not that I know of. I'm not there enough, I guess. All right. Any others you want to throw out?

Let's get out of here. Arrow down TD. Oh, after an MVP you're going after. I'm just saying, you know, we win or lose a podcast. We have to Greg us to text four days later to find out. I mean, how about keep us updated? Speaking of MVP, I won't reveal the poll. are still open until TD returns, which is when, Brandon?

Thursday, but for you guys. Take it time, TD. It's only training camp. A lot of movement in those polls over the last few days. The polls are moving. The polls are open. Will the MVP segment continue? So you could find it on our around the NFL page, the link to get to it.

That's what Mark was doing all weekend. Where are we now? I've voted once. You know what? I'd rather not get into it. I will say that it was very close after about 25. hours, and then the last subsequent 72 hours, one side of this has surged ahead. So if you feel strongly one way or the other, it's time to vote if you want to save or get

rid of TD's baby. And that's it for the Around the NFL podcast. We'll be back on Wednesday with another show. The four of us, Mark, I know you're leaving soon, right? I will be here. Oh, you will. Good. All right.

So get ready. More shows. This is Dan Hansa signing off for the Sizzler, the mailman, the boss. And Brandon behind the list Ah! Flew it. This is an I-Heart podcast.