NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Styles and Reese Shine at Combine, Latest Trade Rumors, and Dan Morgan and Dave Canales Join the Show

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

Gregg Rosenthal and Nick Shook react to the first day of drills at the 2026 NFL Scouting Combine! Gregg and Nick tell you what they thought of the dominant performances from Sonny Styles and Arvell Reese. Nick also shares what he saw on the field from David Bailey, Cashius Howell, and more! Gregg and Nick also react to the trade that sent Jermaine Johnson from the Jets to the Titans in exchange for T'Vondre Sweat, Anthony Richardson being linked to the Vikings, the reported asking price for Maxx Crosby and other news coming out of the combine. Plus, Carolina Panthers GM Dan Morgan and HC Dave Canales join the show! NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal. I know that, Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and free agents, the podcast that owns the NFL offseason. This is where teams are built.

Free agency, combine, pro days, trades. Every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts to my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together. Quarterback movement. Surprise signings. We'll tell you what it means.

And who really really. really wins. Open your free IHeart radio app, search 40s and free agents, and listen now. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we've got a perfect relative athletic score. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm in my garage, back in Los Angeles, in front of a live studio audience of one, my son, across the country, free and fresh from Lucas Oil Stadium. It is Nick Shook back in his hotel room at the of a long day watching prospects. I am happy to see you again, Nick. Oh, yeah.

You know, it's funny. I think it's the last three or four years. We both go to the combine. We fail to see each other at the combine. It's like two ships passing in the night. So it is good indeed to see you again as well. And look, the NFL Daily fans, the shook ones out there, have been saying, where's Nick? Last time we talked to him was on the Super Bowl show and so only big time shows for Nick.

We're going to go through the front seven and the defense worked out on Thursday in Indianapolis, the defensive linemen, the edge players, of course, the linebackers. Great day for a lot of them, especially those linebackers. We'll also do a little bit of news. We had a trade. It's already starting to happen. Some other releases, some other little bits and bobs. And then at the end of the show, we're going to listen to a couple of interviews I did before I left town with the Panthers Brain Trust.

definitely a rising team. And so we talked to GM Dan Morgan and the coach Dave Canales. But just give me a little big picture of your overall day before we start breaking down the different positions. You're in the stadium watching it. How did you think day one went here at the 26 Combine? I mean, you know, the overall day, it always begins with your player interviews. And I listen to Caleb Downs, who will be working out tomorrow,

talk about how he believes that when he steps in the field, he knows he's the best player. If he claimed that he thought somebody else was, it would be a lie, is what he said. And then it continued with the workouts. And we had some really, really intriguing guys in the defensive line that I'm very curious to see where they'll all fall in the draft. You didn't have a couple of guys that were big names participating with the edge rushers.

You had Sonny Stiles blow up the combine and the deepest linebackering class that I believe I've seen in my basically a decade covering this combine. I think this is the deepest group yet. I love that you mentioned Caleb Downs, who we'll hear from tomorrow. We'll watch Jeremiah Love, the running back from Notre Dame later in the week. And it is really interesting

because I think if you go around and just ask people in Indianapolis, who's the best player in the draft? Kind of take away the position. So, you know, Mendoza's, Fernando Mendoza is going to be the number one pick. Who's just the best player in the draft? There's a lot of different players

who you could make the case for and maybe Sunny Stiles, the Ohio, state linebacker put himself in that mix with a huge combine performance. I think you saw three of them today. We just mentioned two more of them. And it's just one of those wide open drafts. So let's start there. Sunny Stiles blew up the combine. And look, his teammate Arvel Reese was not far behind. These are two guys that were already in the top five of a lot of people's boards, even if they weren't in mock drafts. Daniel Jeremiah had them both in his top five,

Arvel Reese number two overall, but Stiles was an absolute tank, just in the measurements. If you're someone that was online all day, it was just watching this dude's case build and build throughout the day because his just body is an absolute tank. And then he performed, I don't think it's exaggerating, like one of the best linebacker slash just pure player performances maybe we've ever seen at the combine. Yeah, absolutely. It's funny because you're right. It did start with the measurements.

and then it started with the testing that happens on the side. And I remember hearing like an audible pop when he hit his vertical jump as they're, you know, doing their testing before the linebackers come out and do their job. And I'm thinking, oh, somebody just jumped, you know, put a big number up. And then we have the broadcast playing in the suite moments later. They cut to it. It's Sunny Stiles. And I'm thinking, all right, this is the athletic player that I've known as an Ohio State fan

was always there. The guy that was good enough to earn the Block O jersey, aka number zero, with Ohio State this past season, finally kind of showing off. his athleticism to the rest of the pro football world. And then he goes out and he runs the fastest 40 of any guy in the linebacker group, which also includes Rvel Reese as the only edge rusher in that group. And he's the heaviest of all the linebackers. Did it at the highest weight, put the fastest 40 time down,

cementing the triple crown with the broad jump, 11 foot 2 inch broad jump, the crazy vertical jump, the 40 time, and then he crushes all the drills. He just dominated the combine. It's one of those performances that we're going to look back on, years from now, and that's going to be the new standard that all these other guys are going to aspire to try to reach. So they still have the agility drills. I guess they separated those by days. So technically the testing isn't done, and the relative athletic score, which is put together,

isn't exactly complete. But right now, he would be ranked first out of 3,215 linebackers. Say that again. Say that again. Say that again. 3,215. 3,215 linebackers. Well, literally the best vertical leap ever, I think, from the position. The fourth best, I think, in terms of the broad jump, I might be mixing up those two,

but either way they were right there. Like the comps in terms of his height weight speed were D.K. Meccaf, Nick Iman Worry. And to do that as a linebacker, six foot four, 244 pounds, like huge arms, wingspan like bigger than almost anyone else

and a guy that the tape backs it up that it's just these two different styles now I think among maybe people who aren't you know among the average draft Nick he was ranked a little lower like he's 12th on the consensus board

but for instance DJ had him fifth and I think the league maybe already viewed him higher and I think this crazy day that he had Jeremiah said it on the broadcast is now going to maybe put him at least in that discussion where you're thinking about, is this guy a top five pick?

Is five even going to be like the floor for him if you think about the giants who would need him? And could the Jets be thinking, hmm, are we now deciding between Sunny Stiles, Rvel Reese, David Bailey, like among those three guys for the number two overall pick? It's a good problem to have. And I think it kind of gives you a good example of what can happen to a player's reputation from their junior year to their senior year or whatever, their penultimate year to their final year in college, if they are lined up next to somebody who absolutely blossoms in the following year, because that's what happened to Sonny Stiles. He's always been this linebacker.

Like, for example, he was always my dad's favorite linebacker at Ohio State. He loved to say, Sunny Stiles was how he said his name, right? But Arvill Reese explodes this year and becomes this dominant player and ends up being the more prominent defender in this, you know, nation's best defense, this Ohio State defense that had ballers at every level. At Caleb Downs back there, he had Reese and he had Stiles, you had McDonald at the defensive line. They had guys at every level. And so people kind of forgot about styles.

Even the Draft Knicks kind of forgot about styles because when you thought about that defense, you thought about Reese and his production. And again, it just overshadowed what he did. But this is how you can rescue your draft stock by coming out here and being an athletic freak on the biggest stage in the pre-draft process and taking back your narrative

and shooting back up the draft board. And it opens up this debate that's like threefold, which is you go between Reese and Bailey. It's kind of like the Aden Hutchinson versus Trayvon Walker debate of a few years ago. Which one do you take at number one or versus number two? The more polished producer who ended up being Hutchinson or the guy at the higher upside who was Walker. That's essentially what people view Reese as. Well, now you can throw styles into the mix, not as a one-to-one comparison, but also another candidate for these teams like the Jets who have a lot to determine. And it's a good problem to have if you're the Jets.

Yeah. And I want to focus on the combine tonight because we're going to dive into these players deeper throughout the process. But it is funny to me because I saw someone write about Sunny Stiles. This might be one of the best like inside linebacker prospects we've seen in a long time. And I'm thinking, what about R.R.R.R. Rees because Dan Dan, David Jeremiah sees him as an edge. And at least the guy who split his time pretty equally at edge. and off ball linebacker. But he goes out tonight, and he runs a 4-4-6.

The official times actually were the exact same. He is an absolute tank. During both of the position drills, they looked incredible. Their 10-yard splits were incredible. And there are reasonable minds can disagree, but, you know, we're going to talk to Ali Connolly on the show throughout the draft process. And he really thinks Reese is going to be better as an off-ball linebacker.

He thinks he's, he's a linebacker guy, and he thinks Reese is the best linebacker prospect. potentially since Luke Keekely. And so that's two guys on one team. You're in the building. Before we move on from these two, kind of what did you see out of their position drills and Reese specifically?

It's so funny that you mentioned that because I was going through this in my head as we're watching all of this happen. I'm listening to DJ on the broadcast, talk about how he sees Reese, who's going to, you know, his bread's going to be buttered at edge in the NFL. And I'm thinking, okay, I get that.

I understand that. But that's actually the biggest question mark on his resume as of now is how, you know, developed of a pass rusher are you? He was a very good edge setter when he played up on the ball at Ohio State, but he was a really dynamic linebacker off the ball. No matter who they played, whether it was Texas in their first game of the season, Michigan in their last game of this regular season, he was always the guys making plays from the second level, shooting the run gaps, doing whatever was necessary to really make a huge difference. No matter what game you put on, he was always there as their best defensive player.

And I think that it would kind of sell him short to just force him into the edge rusher role when we've seen significant amount. ounce of tape, at least over one season in which he can thrive at that position and was a difference-making player on the best defense in college football. And the comparison I came to in my head was kind of the arc of Micah Parsons because when Parsons came out of Penn State, he did a little bit of both as well. And when he started with the Cowboys, he was off ball as much as he was on ball, and he was a sideline to sideline player. And eventually he was kind of forced into the edge rushing role. Now, of course, you can do what the Packers did with him this year, which is line him up in the A gap from time to time to show you some weird pressure look and freak out

the offensive lineman and produce pressures. And you could do that with Reese too. I just think that if you're going to maximize his talent, pinning him into the edge rushing position and just asking him to hunt the quarterback, I think you're selling yourself short on what you could potentially get, especially with the guy who's going to get drafted as highly as he's going to be. Right. I think Parsons, it became clear at the pro level that he was just better. He was better as an edge rusher. I am excited to go through the tape more, but in terms of instincts

and just having a natural feel for the position, I think it might be a different conversation for NFL teams of just, okay, let's see what it can do. And obviously having that ability as a blitzer is always going to be a huge, huge plus. You kind of need that at the NFL level. That's where the best linebackers are anyway. So it's fascinating.

Since you were there, though, like what did you see just from those two guys and in terms of the position drills in the stadium, like what did you like? Yeah, you know, that's why I kind of mentioned the whole strength of the class as a whole, because there's been many years where I've sat there and there's maybe one or two guys that you're like,

okay, this guy's a stud, the rest of them, forgettable, we'll see how long they last in the NFL. This group this year had a ton of talented guys. And if it wasn't for Reese and Stiles at the top of the class, there were multiple other guys who would have been the best linebacker in their class in previous years, and they get overshadowed by the two Buckeyes. But when you watched Reese and you watched Stiles,

First off, they're polished, they're explosive, just fluidity is off the charts. They are natural athletes. I thought watching Reese finish a play where like, you know, you're running through the cone at the end, and then watching the next guy do it. And I'm like, there is a noticeable gap in how quickly they get from point A to point B. And the same was true with Stiles. Now, he stumbled a couple of times, but to kind of paint the picture of how explosive he is as an athlete, they're in this pass rushing drove, they're going around the bag, and he wipes

out, but he wiped out, like, incredibly violently before getting up and trying to finish the drill. Like, that's how explosive of a player he is. And you can just see the difference between those two and the rest, although the difference wasn't as wise as it would be in a typical year, because there is so much other talent. Think about the Texas Tech, Jacob Rodriguez kid. Betcher from Oregon, I thought, did really well, and the drills didn't test quite as well. There's a number of other guys as a kid from Cincinnati that is also a very good linebacker. So there's a lot of depth in this group, more than I've seen over the last decade. but it's very clear who the top two guys are.

Yeah, Jacob Rodriguez from Texas Tech. Didn't know how he would test and ran really well, looked really good for his size. A guy maybe believed to be kind of a late two, he might have pushed himself up. Before we move on from the linebackers to the linemen, if you've got any other shout out to that linebacker, go for it.

If not, tell me what stuck out to you most at defensive line. Yeah, the kid from Cincinnati's name is Jake's, Jake Golday. I think he was a guy that most people expected to test pretty well, and then he lived up to that, and then also did really well in the drills, and I think he earned himself some money tonight. Wesley Besaint, I think is how you say it, from Miami. He didn't test really well,

but I love the way he looked in the drills. He made a super athletic grab running down the line in one of the early change of direction drills and kind of made a lot of plays like that throughout his workout on the field. I thought he was good. There's this under six-foot linebacker from Pitt, His name's Kyle Lewis, and I think he's like basically a box safety, but he was really quick because I think he's a box safety. Jack Kelly from BYU had a strong showing, and then you had the kid from Duke and then Anthony Hill, Jr. from Texas as well.

That was like my honorable mentions group from this overall linebacking group. But I mean, this is the first time where I put together three linebackers for the All Combine team and felt really good about all three. I like your All Combine team. We're going to be hitting the rest of the positions on a Sunday night recap show. Nick Shook is working long hours there in Indianapolis. And yeah, it is crazy how many linebackers, for instance, Rodriguez, Kyle Lewis, you mentioned, who are kind of projected to be in that day two range. So just like a really deep year at the position.

Let's go to the edge spot where, you know, the headline was definitely David Bailey. Very slight favorite right now to be the number two overall pick in terms of the, if you wanted to get into the wagering. of it all in Vegas. Tell me about his day as kind of edge one. Yeah, you know, here's the thing. So I was kind of confused about how to organize these because of the Reese discussion that we just had, right?

Right. They could be anywhere. Whatever you want to put him. Bailey is the most polished edge out there. But we also didn't see Ruben Bain perform. We didn't see Mazador perform both of the Miami edge rushers. They did not participate in the on-field workout. There was also the talk about Rubin Bain's

arm length that we've heard all week, and that was another topic today when he came in under 31 inches, which was a mild surprise to even those who thought they had him, you know, projected best. But for the guys that were on the field, Bailey right now has the most complete package for somebody that's pro-ready as an edge rusher. He did, he posted a four, five, 40, 12-9 broad jump, you know, crushed it. And actually, I think it was 10-9 on the broad jump at 12-9's insane. Huge vert.

Yeah. 5-140. Is that, his athletic? He was 80 from NextGen, and he was solid throughout the drills. He's a natural athlete. Like, he's just, he has that burst. He just looks like the fit of an edge rush of the way he moves. You can just tell it's a pro-level guy.

But there was an interesting detail I found in his workout that I didn't notice before, and I don't really think it's going to matter all that much. He fired his feet at a higher rate than I've seen anybody else do on the field in quite a while, at that position group and among the guys that he was on the field with tonight. but there was an interesting way that he went around some of the turns in these like agility drills where you're changing direction whereas like some guys might take three steps to get around a corner and they might cut really sharply and and Bailey's feet are so fast that like he like pedals them down and like rotates around the turn and I'm like that's unique and I wonder how that's going to translate but you can't deny the production at Texas Tech he was a huge difference maker and it's it's totally justified for him to be considered a top five pick yeah and they showed him it on one of those drills kind of matching them up with another one of the players. Now I forget which one it was. I don't think it was Cassius Howe.

And they looked almost too similar in a way. DJ kind of hinted just that, like just like a hint of stiffness, which is crazy and is probably nitpicking. But when you went with his measurements and his size, like the closest comp was Von Miller, which is just, but he doesn't seem to necessarily have that sort of same bend. I mean, who does?

Yeah. Yeah, it's the bend. The bend is not there. Right, but that's the all-time Ben guy. I did like NextGen Stats has a production score of just like total production over the last five years. And here's your top five players over the last five years. Number one was Will Anderson. Now I forget what the order was.

Bailey is in the mix there. Then it's Abdul Carter. Aiden Hutchinson is in the mix as well. And Ruben Bain was also. in that top five. So that's a good list to be on. I mean, you can't, you can't mess with that production. And going back to Bain, yeah, you talked about the short arms. There's never been a top 100 picked at that position with sub 31 inch arms. A lot of people, though, say the way that he wins with his powers and the counters that he's actually come up with and leverage, like the short arms are

almost an advantage for him. And he's kind of shown he can overcome it at a high level. Also, Adam Schaefter had a very funny tweet that said, actually two teams measured him at 32 inches, and these combined measurements have been really small over the years. So, yeah, you definitely wonder where Adam Schefter is getting that information. I'm sure it was coming from the Ruben Bain camp. But I don't know where you're at in terms of concerns, because remember the whole Aidan Hutchinson deal, like a couple years ago,

of his short arms? Obviously it hasn't been a problem for him, but Baines was like another inch. inch and a half, I think, shorter. I really only care about if you have short arms as if you're a speed guy, because if you're going to win the speed, the best way to do that is to keep offensive linemen's hands off of you and usually you need the length as well to prevent them from,

it's like boxing, like the longer reach. You can fight on the outside with the longer reach, right? So the same thing kind of applies for edge rushers to win the speed. Speed is not Bain's game. Bain's game is power. He's not going to care if you get your hands on him and his arms are short because he's got the power to overcome that. So I don't really care about the arm length thing.

I think I've seen enough from his production at Miami to know that he is a stud and he's going to be a stud at the next level. Take him. Don't worry about the length. And if he slides, because of the length a little bit, then good for the team that's there to scoop him up. And it also kind of points to like,

we talked about hand size with quarterbacks. I only care about hand size if you're catching or holding the football as a running back, not as a quarterback. It really doesn't matter to me. We think about Kenny Pickett and his small hands. And you can continue to go down the list with different guys. I think about Ricky Williams had small hands. That mattered. He had a fumbling issue early in his career.

I'm a little worried about Drake May's hand size after seeing him play in the cold in the playoffs. Yeah, yeah. But it's just like I don't care as much about those measurements unless there's another player in this group, for example, that I think the arm length does matter. Because while Bain's arms are short, Cassius Howell from Texas A&M had even shorter arms. And he is a speed winner. And I think that he lost a good amount of stock today because of his short arms. And it just the athleticism score doesn't match up when you consider those measurements. And then you watch his workout on the field and you're like, okay, I see the fluidity and the speed there. But something's lacking that I don't think he's the first round pick that a lot of people think that he is.

And so that's a case where measurement kind of does matter because of the style that he plays with. It doesn't apply to Bain, though. Interesting. He was a guy who, according to NGS, was the fastest in terms of the pass-rest drill where it's like rounding the corner, that he was moving the fastest, and that apparently matches up with his game tracking. He's from A&M, more of a speed rusher, a guy projected for maybe the middle-ish,

maybe middle-late of the first round. So it's interesting. It's maybe what you like, because you could see that and say he's moving the fastest around the corner, and you get excited. I saw some other guys who just, like, did not look as smooth. Keldrick Falk, I believe it was.

Yes. Who just did not look as smooth. to me in the drills. Give me some of your favorites and I guess least favorites too out of the edges. Well, with Hal, he also ran a 5-940, which was not fast enough given his archetype

that he's a speed player. So I honestly think that he may have fallen out of the first round entirely after time, which is unfortunate, but that could be the reality. When it comes to Falk, I'm glad you said that because I felt like he came in, he's a kid from Auburn, he came in with a lot of promise, expected to be a first round pick, and a lot of his drill

was just like half hazard in a way. Like it was just, it wasn't clean. A lot of his reps were not clean. There were good moments. I thought he got stronger as the workout progressed. Once you get to running the hoop, that sort of thing that usually separates some of your premier players from the rest of the pack. And I thought that he was very good in that.

But earlier drills, you know, slips, stumbles, that sort of thing. Not the quickest and change of direction. I was a bit surprised by that. So he did not end up making it onto the top of my group. but he did end up in the honorable mentions because of the way that he finished. Other guys that I liked at edge rusher, George Gumbs, which sounds like a fictional name, but he comes from Florida, and I thought he had a very impressive workout. Ramello Hyde from Texas Tech, very explosive, good burst on him as well.

Max Lohen, I think is how you say, from Iowa. He's a classic Iowa edge rusher, kind of, not really in the mold of Lucas Van Ness, but similar just because you see kids from Iowa, and they usually fit these certain archetypes, and he definitely fits it. But he was very polished. You could tell he'd play a lot of football with the Hawkeyes. Vince and Anthony Jr. from Duke.

That's actually the Duke kid that I referenced earlier. I had him in the wrong position group. And then Mason Riger from Wisconsin, much like kids from Iowa, Wisconsin Edge Rusher, who is very polished, very controlled, and a little more explosive than I thought he was. When he got into some of those short zone drop drills,

he had more burst than I thought. So I'm very intrigued by him because a lot of his reps were, When he came to fundamentals, they were done very well. Are you saying that Iowa has a type? Iowa definitely has a type. AJ Epinessa type. That's exactly what I was thinking, except he's faster than Epinezna was.

Hey, they're the only ones that saw past color and gave Riley Moss a chance to play cornerback. Maybe they didn't see past color, but either way, they took advantage. And Riley Moss is about to get a great second contract here. So someone else should have snapped him up. Let's fly through the defensive tackles before we take a break.

I'm fascinated by Caleb Banks, the Florida prospect. In general, this was an interesting group because DJ has four guys kind of in that late, first, early second group, and they're all close. Lee Hunter of Texas Tech, Caden McDonald of Ohio State

looked like had a fun day. Caleb Banks is also in that mix. And Caleb Banks is a big dude, 6-6-3-27. the longest wingspan of any defensive linemen since 1999. That's just when they started building it. So basically he has the longest wingspan in the history of the combine. He kind of looks like DeForest Buckner out there,

except he's like broad jumping and athletically testing even better than that. Do you think he's a player and who stood out to you? Yeah, he did. He actually doesn't end up making my all combine team, but it's not really a knock against him. He just didn't jump out as much as a couple of the other guys in the drills that they did. but all the things that you just went over, you know, puts him up there in that group.

I actually think it's a very deep defensive tackle class this year. Because let's think about like Peter Woods from Clemson, like doesn't get out there and participate in the drills, doesn't run a 40, but his measurable stack up. He's usually at the top of this group. And some of the other guys that you just mentioned are also in there. But I also, some of the guys that jumped out to me on the field

that are not in this group that most consider, Zane Durant from Penn State puts down the fastest 40 times. as a defensive tackle, which how much do you care about that? Think about Jordan Davis for me a few years back and you're like, well, does that really matter that much? He had a fast 10 though, too. Zane Durant looked crazy. Exactly.

His explosion was different from the rest. Sometimes when you sit up in the suite at the combine and you see these guys perform, there's one or two that just move differently than the rest. I think about Tristan Worf's was that way. Bejan Robinson was that way. Zane Durant was that way. He was clearly of the guys that were doing the drills today, the best one out there, explosive, very refined in his technique, very pro-ready.

I'm really excited to see where he lands because I'm not sure if he makes it into that top-five group or if he's a great value pick for a team that's picking outside of those top-five defensive tackles in day two somewhere and makes some team really happy. He was one of my guys on that group. I was also very torn with my other, you know, inclusion on this all-combine team between two guys, Demonte Cape Hard from Clemson, who is just a violent defensive tackle, very athletic, long.

And then Caleb Proctor, who spent his college career in anonymity at southeastern Louisiana. And I'm watching him move through these drills. And I'm like, he moves like an NFL player. He moves as well as a lot of these other guys do. How was he at southeastern Louisiana the whole time? And I think it's a size thing. I think that when he finds his match with an NFL team, it's got to be with a team that relies on a lot of movement and stunts because man on man,

I think he'll get buried. But if you move him around and rely on his athleticism to get an edge on a blocker, he can make a difference. He was, I thought he cruised through a lot of these drills today. He had great body control, super smooth and athletic. I just had a bunch of notes like that and so fluid and things like that. So as the drills went on, I was like, God, I think I got to include this kid just because I'm very impressed with how he moves.

Now, defensive line is kind of hard to judge because what's the, at the core of a defensive lineman is being able to be stout in the interior and win, like shed blocks, fill gaps, that sort of thing. And you're not getting that at the combine. So you kind of have to judge how strong. as their base? How light are they on their feet? Are they shifty? Can they move back and forth? That sort of thing. And he definitely did it. But Kpart, I think, kind of projects as a guy who put together a good athleticism showing. He had an 85 athleticism score according to the next gen status. That was the third best among all defensive tackles. Durant had the best at 89. The violence with which he plays. And the fact that he's a bigger guy, a longer guy. I think that he projects to be somebody who could make a difference there. He was the first of my honorable mentions. I was very impressed by him as well. Yeah. And those are two guys. Zane Durant, Caleb Proctor, who were not in the consensus top 100 going into today. Now, the consensus boards, it's maybe not that accurate at this time of year.

It's more about what the draft Nix think than what the league thinks, but it's just a collection of all the different big boards out there. And it gives someone like me just a general feeling of like where these guys are at. So I think they help themselves today, just like Nick Shook is helping us out today. I love this time of year going to school on the. these guys. I also liked that Matt Ryan was there in the crowd. He's not phoning this job in like Tom Brady. You know what I mean? He's like really making it happen. That makes me feel so special to be in the same building as somebody who thought he could sit among everybody else as the president

of football for the Atlanta Falcons, almost as being in the suite next to Ian Rappaport made me feel today. Ooh, that's great. And yeah, I like, you know, there's this, the Falcons right now, there's this whole debate whether the Bears will get credit for Ian Cunningham going to be the GM of the Falcons because you're supposed to get draft picks if a minority candidate leaves from your program and gets the highest ranking football decision maker job at another program. You actually get mid-round draft picks. And they're not right now because Matt Ryan is above him on the totem pole. And him showing up for the combine actually kind of supports the fact that it probably is. is going to be Matt Ryan in charge over there.

Also, bad moment for Aaron Glenn, who was caught asleep on NFL Network. I'm not sure, because I know you're actually there watching what's happening. I'm just looking at Twitter. And Aaron Glenn was asleep. Someone very clearly, like, said, you know, yelled at him and was like, you're asleep on camera right now.

Like, Aaron, and then he suddenly wakes up and he looks at the camera. And because of there's a tape delay, I think he looked up to see himself asleep on NFL network, which has to be like the worst way you can possibly wake up. And unfortunately, I feel like it's going to be a clip that's used moving forward. It is when the Jets struggle, that's the first clip that we're going to see popularized and just spread across social media.

But it's still not as bad as the couple at the Coldplay concert. So at least he's got that. He's got that. But I mean, I think Jets fans at this point are like, can we just get through a combine day without. Hey, man. Those are their long days. They're long days in that stadium.

Can our organization just not embarrass us for a day? All right, let's take a break. We're going to come back and we're going to fly through some news because I feel bad right now. Like, Shook's been working for 15 hours straight. We got to let him go get a steak or something in Indianapolis back in a minute. I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind and now got my own show.

So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversation, join us each week. Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeartRadio app. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stopped. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg, free agency, the combine, the NFL draft, Pro Days, trades.

This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money. On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually. matters. From my draft evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits, to my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, cap space, contracts, and all the tough decisions included. You got quarterbacks on the move. We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season. We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team. Smart analysis, real conversations every week. I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and

free agents on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Back on NFL Daily, I can recognize the Westin room that I was in. I was just in it. But I got to say, I'm not complaining about being back in sunny Southern California. Mid-70s today, Chuck, you still got a ways to go. And get ready. It is time for charging into the offseason presented by Apple Card for all your game day purchases.

Woke up to some trade news today. Shook, got a trade. The Jets made a trade. Jermaine Johnson, former first round pick. I think he's had a solid career. Torres Achilles hasn't quite been the same since. Is going to his former coach, Robert Sala, in Tennessee,

for defensive tackle. Devandre Sweat, a second round pick, who we talked a lot about a couple years ago at the Combine because there was off-field concerns, is this guy take the game seriously enough. Now these two defensive linemen getting swapped. I just as a little bit of a recap, I think Sweat probably performed two expectations in his career.

Good expectation. He's played pretty well as a nose tackle through two seasons. What did you make of this move? The Jets getting Jermaine Johnson. I mean, the Jets getting Tavondry Sweat. Sweat's also been the inspiration for some of the more hilarious calls that we've gotten in the last couple of years.

when he makes an occasional play on the ball like a turnover and gets the ball in his hands because the big man movement, the football is always entertaining. Yeah, I agree. I think he's lived up the expectation and the way that you summarize Johnson is accurate as well. I just think it's a matter of fit. Robert Sala comes into Tennessee, and he probably accepts that Sway does not fit in the way that he wants to play defense because sweat is a big body, you know, gap plugging nose. And you've got to think about who were the feature players in Sala's defense in New York.

It was guys like Quinn and Williams. Who were the feature players in Sala's defense in San Francisco this year? was rookie C.J. West and other players like that as they tried to rebuild their defensive line. Sweat does not fit the mold of any of those guys. So it makes sense to do this deal and also get one of Salas' old guys that he likes from the Jets to plug in there at EdgeRusher

because they need help in that front seven. And so it makes a ton of sense and a one for one, it works out for me. It's a nice little solid, explainable, understandable trade in late February. Yes. And since they both have top four picks, you know, people wonder, will that impact anything? No, this trade should not impact anything.

Even if, let's say, the Jets or the Titans, like, signed another defensive end in free agency, I don't think that really gives away what they're going to do. I think you just have to take the best player. And Jermaine Johnson has one year left on his contract. I also think finances, you know, were a factor. The Titans have a lot of cap space. And so they can take on a big fifth-year option. contract, whereas Devandre Sweat has two years for pretty cheap. Just on the football merits of it all,

I think it's a pretty good trade for the Jets. It does make you wonder there's been like little whispers of like, you know, how much the sweat love the game, all that sort of stuff. Like it is, you see the type of guy you want to build around. And so maybe that factors into it too. But just the football, you get a cheaper player for an extra year who's played pretty well, not bad for the Jets. The Titans also cut Lloyd Cushenberry, who two years ago was one of the highest paid players, I mean, the Titans cut Lloyd Cushingberry, who two years ago was one of the highest paid players in free agency. He was a center, suffered a really serious injury, never quite looked the same. And he is now free. And the Titans have a lot of cap space and a lot of needs.

And now they have a new need at center. Another possible trade. Cameron Wolf of the NFL Network reports there's mutual interest in an Anthony Richardson trade to the Vikings. That would be spicy going to Kevin O'Connell and the Vikings, you know, need a quarterback. And Anthony Richardson, it was officially, you know, announced, you know, by reporters that they gave him permission to seek a trade. We kind of knew that he would be available. Yeah. Have we talked about this on this show? Because I know I've had these discussions with a number of different people about how Anthony Richardson has no futures in Indianapolis and that this was probably going to happen at some point. And so for it to come to fruition, at least in the

form of a rumor, a report from Cam Wolf, which is hilarious, by the way. because I saw Cam last night and we had a nice conversation and you wake up this morning and Cam's just pounding the pavement, getting the story, he's out there because this is how the combine works. Yeah, it makes all the sense in the world. The Vikings, not so much because I know that they need to bring in competition. They feel like they need to push JJ McCarthy and they also need to have better options behind him.

But do you want to invite what would inevitably become a distraction because you have two young quarterbacks to both former first round picks and what happens when McCarthy struggles and then, oh, go to Richardson. And do you really want that instability? I'm not so certain. But then again, this is a team that happily added Daniel Jones and, you know, he didn't obviously take the field for them during that season. But they're not unfamiliar with taking a swing at a former first round prospect at the quarterback position and seeing what they could potentially get out of them. Yeah, the problem is he's too close to what they have in JJ McCarthy. Yes.

Like a guy who is a total question mark and is young and needs to develop. It doesn't fit what they need, which is they need somebody reliable behind JJ. I can actually only imagine him being there if they brought in another player too, that they have three players and it's a veteran because I frankly expect them to bring in someone who has a better chance to unseat J.J. McCarthy. In fact, I kind of expect them to bring in someone who will be the favorite to start this year, but they have to find that guy. It's easier said than done.

So maybe there's interest, but I don't know if that would be it for quarterback. But we'll see. That would be fascinating. I also heard a Cardinals, I read a Cardinals source who said that they heard that Gino Smith could be in the mix, as well as Anthony Richardson in Arizona, which is fascinating. They don't seem to be very on top of Kyler. So they don't seem to be very on board with that. So that makes a lot of sense.

I don't think the Kyler thing is happening. One thing we failed to mention on the last show that I meant to, that it was, it was hilarious that Kyler's camp came out after the Cardinals said that they've spoken with Kyler Murray. And they've kind of been letting it be known. Like, hey, maybe we'll keep Kyler. There was a source that told the SPN. Actually, they haven't talked to us at all. He hasn't spoken with Montaausen for once. So it's like you can try to pretend like you're keeping me potentially just to raise leverage when you have no interest.

We're not going to play that game. We're not going to help you out, Cargdolls. The leverage game. It's always fun this time of year. It produces lies, fibs, you know, whatever you want. Yeah, Kyler, I do not think it's staying there. Pro Football Talk reported that the Raiders want two first round picks plus a player for Max Crosby. That's the exact price.

and the player was Kenny Clark of Michael Parsons. I think it's too much for Max Crosby. I think that tells me, yeah, the Raiders would do that, and they probably, I think, know that they won't get it and that they're okay with that. Yeah, let's think about the art of negotiation. You start with a high price, they come in with a low price,

and you work your way toward the middle. I guess this is just a starting point for them to at least get the wheels turning on a potential move, which it kind of just feels inevitable at this point. I don't think they'll fetch that offer. I think you're right. It's too high. That made sense for Michael Parsons.

It does not make quite as much sense for Max Crosby. No matter how good of a player he is, he's not the same player as Parsons. And Ian Rappaport pointed out on our show, he's coming off an injury. And that really could mess things up. I actually don't think Max Crosby is going to get traded because I think the injury plus what they'll want.

But you raise a really good point. setting the bar high, it's true. If that's getting leaked to pro football talk, then a first and a third in a player would probably do it. So maybe that could happen. I also thought it was interesting. Clint Kubiak came out and told the local media, he is looking for a, quote,

two-man show at running back, and that Ashton Genty, quote, needs a wingman. And that's how he likes to run backfields. Yeah, we just saw that. Makes sense, but that's a top 10 pick at running back. So if you drafted him in Dynasty fantasy football leagues, maybe not the best news. Yeah, not a good pick for dynasty owners, not a good pick for fantasy owners going into 2026, but it's also not a good pick because they had the worst offensive line in the NFL.

So like, I don't care who you put back there. You could put like the reincarnation of Jim Brown behind Ashton Gentie, and they're still probably not going to be very effective because they can't block. So until they can block, it doesn't really matter. Landon Dickerson, like his teammate, Lane Johnson, indicated on Instagram that he will be returning to the 2026 Philadelphia Eagles. We noted a couple weeks ago that both offensive linemen were

reportedly considering not coming back. I think everyone was a little upset about Jeff Stoutland, their offensive line coach leaving the building. In the end, these are two of the best at what they do, huge competitors, and they want to come back, and they will be back. So great news for the Eagles there. More offensive line news in the NFC East.

The commanders have released Tyler Biotish. Look, this is a story. Maybe most podcasts wouldn't hit. I was quite very surprised by this, though. He was a guy who, you know, I know pro Bowls don't mean that much, but made a Pro Bowl a couple years ago and started virtually every game for the commanders

since he took over. As I dug into it, it's maybe a little less surprising. He had what's in, an injury late last season, a leg ankle injury that I'm not really sure how serious it was. And this release maybe indicates to me it's a little more serious. If he was healthy, you know, he's not even 30 yet. He's put up a lot of good starts in the NFL.

He'd be top 50 in my top 101 free agents. But the uncertainty about the injury makes me just want to like find out a little more. But another hole for the commanders to fill. They have a lot of holes to fill. Yeah. And it wasn't like money really motivated all that much of it when they have a lot of cap space to work with anyway. And they have holes to fill like you said. And they only saved $2.6 million, but they do save a lot of cash.

Ultimately, you are paying the guy a lot of money and I think he was due like $8 million. So the fact that they released him makes me wary about possibly getting him. Yes, because maybe, you know, for lack of a better phrase, but he may be considered like damaged goods as a free agent now. And maybe they were looking at that and trying to get ahead of it. And so it makes sense. But you know what else, Greg? I'm sitting in the suite tonight and I'm watching the ticker go by. And Greg's top 101 free agents are scrolling by.

Yes. And I think on a separate podcast, you and I are going to have to have some chats because I got some gripes. Oh. Like putting Kate out in the head of Isaiah likely. I got some gripes that we need to discuss. I wish I had you on more for those gripes like before I put it out because what good is it going to do me now? But no, I do want to explore that space another time. But yeah, a lot of people got on me about the KDOT and ranking.

It's very high. Will Anderson is going to be a priority for the Houston Texans. Ian Rappaport reported today that he thinks a long-term extension will happen sooner than later. Not a shock, but just interesting how they're kind of prioritizing things. Shadur Sanders hopes to one day get a long-term contract extension. somewhere in the neighborhood of Will Anderson. That's going to be a tall order, but you never know. But what he did do was somehow make this show by a completely surprising choice of gift for Todd Monkin.

Let's listen to Todd Monkin with CBS this week. In fact, for my birthday, I got this package. I thought it was for my wife. It's like this package and opens it up. It's like this porcelain like horsehead. And it's from Shadour. He sent me a gift on my birthday. and I asked him, I said, what was the meaning?

He said, well, I just really liked it. So I got myself one. I said, well, great. Okay, first off, that's a Brown fan, Jack. First off, this is why you make the big bucks, because that was a hell of a segue to get to Shador Sanders there. Thank you. And secondly, this is a godfather-esque gift

that usually is ominous and means bad things for your coach, and I think that went completely over Shador's head. But also, there's so many things here, who like sees a portion. And he's like, wow, I really like that. I want one. And I'm going to send one to my head coach for his birthday. He has the best team around him to be aware of these things and make them happen,

even if they look really strange to the rest of us. Yeah, that was with my friends Jonathan Jones and Pete Prisco over at CBS. They were not expecting any of that to come out. I have a lot of thoughts on this. Number one, I wish I had the confidence and the generosity. not just in terms of money, but actually just of spirit too, because he had to think to do that.

I don't think that's a team of people sending the porcelain horse head. Now, he has to tell them, hey, can you send this to coach? But he has to think of it. So that's a generous spirit. But I think you've got to have a certain sort of self-confidence. I don't know what the right word would be,

just that like, hey, I like this porcelain horse head so much. I'm buying this thing. And my coach would love it. And I have the confidence to send my coach, like, presents in the mail. And it's a bizarre present. I love it all. I want to see it. I want to see it, too.

And you know what I think I need to start doing? I need to start sending you gifts on your birthday that are strange. No. No. I actually think it raises the chances of the Shadur starting this year by like 5%. Because of a gift? Well, just because it just shows a level of connectedness. We saw that they side each other, that they liked each other, I think from the pre-draft process.

And when they side each other again in Cleveland, it's just a fun bromance there. It's preseason week three. And Todd Munkin has to decide between Shador Sanders, Deshawn Watson, and whoever else they bring in at quarterback for week one. And it's late at night. And it's a hot summer evening in Berea. And the sun is set and Todd's in his office all by himself. And he's lit by one overhead light. like it's an interrogation room.

And in that moment, he'll look across the room to the porcelain horse head, decoratively placed in the corner, and he'll say, I know who's my guy. That's absolutely right. That was beautiful. I'm really glad I put that in the show. Now everything feels like anti-climics after that. Finally, the NFLPA scores, the grades that they have for all the organizations came out today, not officially, because it was ruled that.

They weren't officially allowed to do this this year, but they were allowed to do the surveys and create the grades. They just weren't allowed to release them publicly. So, of course, it ends up getting out. Kalyn Kaler, who's one of the very best in the business, does it for ESPN. It was her Super Bowl today. I saw someone say that, and she retweeted it, getting all these NFLPA grades out. And the Steelers come in dead last. I thought that was interesting.

in terms of their facilities, in terms of how they take care of their players and the families. That was interesting. Joe Shane was the lowest ranked general manager. And they're not like evaluating moves. It's more like they're evaluating, I think, the players, their relationship with the front office, how they feel about their front office. So that was very interesting to me. The dolphins were the best ranked team for the third straight year.

The Vikings were second. They were always near the top. So the dolphins take care of their players. It is a well-run, like ownership had like an A there. Everything had an A there. And the commanders, since Josh Harris took over, has zoomed from the very bottom of the league to up to third. Seattle and Jacksonville were also in the top five.

Bottom five, I mentioned Steelers were dead last. Cardinals were second to last. They're always near the bottom. Michael Bidwell ranked as the worst owner in the league. The Browns, the Bucks, and the Bengals were also near the bottom. And one thing that really struck me, Chuck, this year, you know, they also ranked the coaches. The lowest ranked coach period was Kevin Stefanski. That's interesting.

By his players. Okay. And the lowest graded coach in the entire league that didn't get fired. I think he was fourth or fifth lowest overall, but the other four had gotten fired. Of course, Devansky got the job immediately. It was Jim Harbaugh with a seat. I could see that. Actually, this is, the Harbaugh thing is something that I wondered.

about when he jumped from Michigan back to the NFL, I wondered if his style, or you could describe it as shtick, may not wear well on his players after a while at the NFL level, just because it's a new generation. Who knows if it's going to work out or not? They have been successful. And I would love to see these grades correlate more to success on the field, like the dolphins, for example, but not super surprised about Harbaugh, not getting a very high grade. His demeanor in the way he does things are just a little different. And not like, the Steelers being last is a tough look. Three of the bottom five were kind of the old family-owned teams, Bengals, Cardinals, Steelers,

you know, that don't have that huge amount of cash that maybe some other organizations do that were in there. Although the Browns do, and they're low down there too. The Browns do, and they spend their money on players, so I don't know what's going on. Must be how they treat families and maybe like the food. Oh, the food got better. I don't know. I always enjoyed breakfast and lunch there. That was charging into the off season presented by Apple Card.

Apply for Apple Card in the wallet app today. Start earning daily cashback on all your game day purchases from tickets to tailgate munchies to merch. Subject to credit approval. All right. Let's take a break. A shook hang out for one second. What we're going to do? We're going to take a break.

On the other side, we're going to listen to a couple interviews that Jordan and I did before I left with the Panthers general manager and head coach. And on the back end of that, we're going to say goodbye and we're going to tell you the trend that officially ended as of Thursday night during the NFL combine. Yes, NFL has killed an entire youth trend. And we'll tell you what it is at the very end. I'm Dylan Playfair. And I'm Tyler Smith.

We're putting loneliness in the penalty box by talking to some of our favorite athletes about the importance of friendship. This is bromance. Bromance is brought to you by Charm Diamond Centers, proudly Canadian-owned and operator. Charm has been part of your love stories and bromances for over 50 years. And you can find Bromance on the IHeart Radio Network or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal.

And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stopped. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg. Free agency, the Combine, the NFL draft, Pro Days, trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money. On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually matters.

From my draft evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits. To my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, cap space, contracts, and all the tough decisions included. You got quarterbacks on the move? We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season.

you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team. Smart analysis, real conversations every week. I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and free agents on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are here with the general manager of the Carolina Panthers. Dan Morgan coming off a season where, frankly, we just loved watching the Carolina Panthers play at the end of the year.

And you kind of are completing the triumvirate. We've had Brandt Tillis on the show. show. Oh, he's already been on? We had about during the season. You know, we talked about it. You vouched for him. I was like, I don't know, Brandt super well. So, you know, would he be good to have on one of our capsule series? He

killed it. He did great. You called the shop, though. You totally. You said he would. He's a great dude and super valuable to me. And we had Dave Canales last year sitting in the very seat that you're sitting in now. So it's like, it felt only right, you know, because you three are quite the

triangle of friendship also. You You hear stories about how well you get along despite very different backgrounds and sort of like very different philosophies that all sort of mesh together because they complement each other. What's it been like sort of building that decision making? I want to say circle, but it's a triangle. I mean, it's been fun. I mean, it always helps when the people you work with, they're not just your workmates. They're your friends. They're people you enjoy coming to work every day.

and working with. And we all, at the end of the day, we just want to win. You know, we want to win. We want to be happy. Come in after wins. So, you know, we work our butts off. And, you know, we put the work in every single day, but we enjoy every single day and we don't take it for granted.

What was the feeling like after the playoff loss, which, you know, is always a really difficult day in any team's season? But on the other hand, it was like, You guys played really well against this team that a lot of us thought and had a really good chance to win the Super Bowl. And you're right there. So I guess take us through with that day that the emotions were like coming off of that game. Disappointed.

I think everybody was disappointed. You know, we felt like we could have won that game. Obviously, we didn't. So coulda would or shoulda. You know, but I think it gives us something to build on. I think that we're headed in the right direction as a franchise. I think the players in the building and the building in general, you know, we have that belief, the culture is shifting to a winning mindset.

And you have to have that. If you don't have the winning mindset, you don't have a chance. So everybody's pulling in the same direction, excited about the future. And, you know, we've got to go earn it now. We've got to put the work in, you know, from a front office perspective, coaches, players. We got to work and we got to go earn it. when I think a lot about what the Panthers, what you guys did this season,

and it was like a joy ride for a lot of it, right? I mean, there were games. It's like a roller coaster for. Yeah, like maybe the safety bar is not on either at this point because sometimes you just felt, how are this, how is this team doing this? They're still in a rebuild, you know? Yeah. You know, yes, you have some veteran guys.

And I think the floor was lifted, especially by some of the great coaching on both sides of the ball. In certain positions, we loved the outside corners tandem and, and just how, they were getting the most out of everyone on the interior with the safeties. And just like because of how well they were playing. Yeah. We loved watching just the floor lift in small pockets all over this roster. Yeah.

But now you've got to keep tweaking and adjusting despite the fact that that was such an adrenaline roller coaster, as you said. How do you like sift through the spikes essentially and get to really what is needed to keep building? You know, I think the biggest thing for us in the roster building, is we got to stick to our standards. We got to be disciplined in our approach. You know, we got to bring our type of guys in. We, you know, we can't be competing against the Internet. You know, people want you to sign this guy and that guy.

Yeah. We can't be competing against the Internet. Wear the T-shirts. I'm looking at the content team right now. You are being taped from an in-house film crew. We are. Reality Star right now. I guess so.

That's not my style. Sorry. You were giving a great answer. Forgive us. We interrupt each other a lot on this show. So, forget. It's fine. It's fine.

I'm the same way. My ADD kicks in as well. But yeah, we just, you know, it's about bringing the right players in, you know, that fit our culture, bringing the right type of human being into our locker room because your culture really starts with the players. You know, they are the culture. So as many players, we can bring. in that not only have great personal character, but they have a love for the game. They love

everything about the process. That's the type of guys we want to bring in our building. Do you think you need more firepower around Bryce Young in terms of the offensive weapons? I think I'm always going to feel like that, you know, no matter how good we ever get. Like, we're never going to be satisfied here. We're always going to be finding ways to get better, to grow and evolve, and just find out. ways to give us an edge, you know, whether it's from a front office perspective, scouting, coaching, you know, we're always going to be looking for those edges. We're never going to feel like we've arrived. But that's the type of mindset we need to have to get to where

we want to go and not only get there once, but to sustain it. Dan, I love when you can watch a coach build something like right out loud in front of everybody. Yeah. And a lot of times that happens when a team is figuring out how to maximize what it has as it goes through the course of the season. It's not just game planning. It's also how do we align pieces on the chess board essentially? Yeah. And like your receivers group and the tight ends group together, I'll just lump them all into a one big pool here of past catchers. Yeah.

You could see, especially when Jalen Coker came back, you could see the layers or the intent of the layers start to develop in this past game around Tetaroa McMillan, but this. But then with Jalen as a really complimentary kind of all over the field, trustworthy, like, weapon. Yeah. And I guess what's the next step of that? Like, what's the next layer that we wish we could have gotten a chance to see if maybe you guys kept going? But what we want to see and what you want to see this coming season. Yeah, I think to answer your question, I think, you know, develop, guys still developing.

You know, I think nowadays, I think, you know, the outside, you know, not us on the end. inside, but on the outside, we're so quick to just throw players under the bus. And like, I'm looking forward to seeing Xavier Leggett develop. You know, he's not a finished product. You know, he's still developing and he's getting better. So we're here to support him. The coaches are here to support him. And, you know, just keep developing our guys. And we believed in these guys. We drafted them for a reason. We know they have it in them, but we're not giving up on them. They're our guys. We're going to win with these guys.

And I have full confidence that they're going to, you know, they're going to turn the corner and they're going to be what we thought. How do you feel about your center, Cade Mays, potentially coming back? Yeah, I think it's a possibility. You know, we've been talking to his agent and staying in contact with him. And, you know, from my seat, you know, we, these guys earned the right to go out and, you know, figure out what their market looks like. and, you know, maybe somebody's going to pay them a boatload of money, and, you know, they earn that right.

And, you know, we're going to stay in contact with them. And at the end of the day, we'll see where the chips fall. Is it a bit of a two-prong attack, too, with the injury to Ikea Conwo at the end of last season and his offensive line, you know, because of that focus for you. Yeah, I mean, that's the NFL, that's life. Like, things are going to happen. And, you know, we have to plan accordingly. And, you know, that's why I always talk about. drafting the best player available because you never know what position you're going to get an injury at at any given moment in the season. So, you know, we're about drafting the best football players and not so so much drafting for need. You know, unless it's equal, then, yeah, I'll go with the need. But, yeah, that's kind of what our philosophy is.

How do you balance? I'm thinking about the defensive line, too. And obviously, I know you guys want to poke up the past rush. Nick Scorton really came alive at the end of the city. He was fun to watch. Oh, yeah. Such explosiveness. It just jumped off the screen.

But obviously you want to build out that group. And you have some veterans that you've had on the interior. You added free agents on the interior around Derek Brown. How do you continue to understand that that was a very real part of your team building model last year, year before? Yeah. Continue to draft and develop there. How do you balance that line that you're walking because you definitely are going to want to get some new people eventually to take over? Yeah.

I think, you know, when I took over and. just talking to my team like about what we want it to be about it's about winning the offensive line of scrimmage and the defensive line of scrimmage like we want to dominate both sides of the ball and you know in order to do that you have to infuse talent into that and you know young talent guys that we can grow with and you saw last year we drafted nick nick scorned we drafted princely you know both those guys were we're excited about their future and we're just going to keep adding keep building brick by brick. And, you know, I think at the end of the day, then, you know, it'll be where we want it to be. Do you think you'll be talking contract extension with Bryce Young

before the fifth year option comes up? You know, that's something that we have to talk about internally and figure out. But, you know, right now, you know, we're just happy Bryce is our quarterback. We're so excited that, you know, the way he's developing, not only as a player, but as a man, you know, he's growing up right in front of our eyes and he's getting better every single day, every single, every single game. So we're excited he's our quarterback and, you know, contractually, that'll figure itself out. Appreciate all the time. Dan, and another old friend of Jordan. Thank you. I've been looking forward to sitting down with you for a while. Anytime.

So I really appreciate us. One of my favorites to watch on the field back in the day as well. So, you know, keep an eye at the linebackers. Appreciate that. picking up. Dan Morgan, GM of the Panthers. We are here with head coach of the Carolina Panthers, head coach of the NFC South champion Carolina Panthers for the second straight year, right in this spot

at the Indianapolis Convention Center. Congratulations on the Division Championship. We were talking about the atmosphere on that day that Jordan was there in the playoffs. How did it feel to kind of bring that type of football energy back to Carolina? We're super proud. We came in, you know, our goal was, you know, Dan and I talking is like, let's build the, let's build a team that this, that this fan base can be proud of, you know, and it's the Carolinas. You know, it's South Carolina, North Carolina. I was in Myrtle Beach last weekend at a seven-on-seven tournament with my son and, you know, just the outpouring of excitement, you know, especially in your football environment, you know, from parents. That's what I think is unique about what's happening in our community is I'm 44 and so most of the people that are around my age were like,

prime time like original Panthers fans. 1995, 1999, PSL owners. You know, I remember 1995. I'm just starting high school. So people my age were like right around that time where it's important to them, you know. And so now their kids, our kids are all growing up in this. And so it's a really special time for us.

Were you more nervous during the fourth quarter of that playoff game or watching the seven on seven your son? Definitely the playoff game. Oh, okay. I don't know. I don't. What kind of a coach parent or involved parent are you with the football? I mean, I would feel like the coach would probably want to try to get you involved a little bit. I just stay out of their way.

Give me an opinion. Yeah. I'm just saying you got control a little bit when you're coaching. If you're just watching the son and that's like. Well, I just appreciate the people that all of these people, this is that they do for fun. You know, and they have jobs and they, you know, haul themselves and a bunch of equipment all around the Carolinas, you know, playing these tournaments. And so I just, I just appreciate them for the time that they, they, they, they, you know, they, you know, spend with our kids and however they coach and whatever plays their calling. It's just like,

this is a good thing. This is time while spent and they're investing in our kids. But it's okay if you also make mental notes too, just saying. But, you know, so the atmosphere was so powerful because you guys as a team and the community, everyone met the moment really well coming in as percepted underdog and then all of that and then really taking it right to the to the end there. But that's sort of like a roller coaster all season with you guys and some of those really high highs emotionally and then some of the frustrating losses. And we, you know, we've had several of your friends and coworkers on the show. We talked to Brant Tillis.

We talked to Dan Morgan as well about like how do you find what's stable and sustainable through all of that joyride of a feeling all around? everything. Yeah, well, it's about belief and starts internally and as we continue to prove to our players that if we play a certain style of football, we can play with anybody. And that holds true for any of us in the NFL. And we all care about the same thing. We all care of the ball. Creating explosive plays or minimizing them and those critical moments at the end of half or into games. And we're all sick about it, but it's the teams that pay attention to it and believe that you can get it done. And that's what I saw happen with our group is throughout the season. I could feel the

belief coming from our players and expecting to win on a weekly basis. And, you know, now it's time to look at the inconsistencies of what happened, you know, and to see if we can really capture that. And it happens in practice. It starts when these players come back in April. And we have to take every single day, this is the day that could win us that game. This is the day that could lose us that game. And can we be that urgent about the work that we do? You kind of made a little news today. You mentioned that when you're in your press conference that Brad Ezek is going to be calling plays this year.

You know, there's been whispers around the league that he was really working at this, like working at maybe one day becoming someone who could take the mantle on in such a significant way. And it's a personal thing to call plays. And it's a powerful thing to be the person that does that. So what is it about him that you said, okay, this is the year that you're going to do it?

What is it about you that you said this is the year I'm going to let this go? And what does a Brad Eczak offense look like? Two things came to mind really with the decision is our ability to continue to push our processes forward offensively. And Brad's been my primary architect for what we do from an offensive standpoint, tying the run game and the past game in together. And we've been doing that for three years. And he works at it. He's such a hard worker.

He's dedicated to it. He's principled. And he knows the philosophy of what. what I want, what we want for our Panthers offense. So felt really confident to give him that opportunity to do it. As far as readiness goes, you know, I was asked this when I first became a coordinator in Tampa. How do you know that you're ready? It's like, well, I'm as ready as I'm going to be.

And I feel that about Brad, you know, this is, this is a time to do that. And he's, he's been the sounding board for me. He's been in my ear, you know, has been calling plays for the last couple of years. And as we've laid this foundation, I believe Brad will take us the next step and will be able to continue to build off of it because of his report with the players as well. The other side of it was an opportunity for me to continue to affect the culture of what we're doing. The play style in general from offense, defense, and special teams, how we do things in the building, a strength and conditioning, athletic training, all of these things, how we treat each other and what we're after,

the possibilities of what we could become. I know that I can affect our culture in a more powerful way by being available that way. Whereas you can imagine coming into it, all hands. on deck, let's get this offense to a place where we have a foundation and I believe we have that foundation and now it's time to continue to build off of it. So we talk to Dan Morgan, your GM and we know that Bryce is going to be your quarterback, of course, and the contract, we'll all figure that out. But I'm curious what you want him to improve on, like specifically in terms of his game, because I feel like he was almost a symbol of your team sometimes at times.

like the great weeks were great. And one thing I think gets misunderstood with him is like, man, if you put just a reel together, like he is not afraid to put that ball in a tough spot. And his high level throws are as high level as almost anyone. But there were down weeks for him too. And so what do you think he needs to get better on to improve those down weeks? Yeah, just what I'm proud of what he did this year is just mastering the operations of what we're doing and getting us to the line of scrimmage so he can make great decisions for us.

He did an excellent job of that this year. And I wanted to be able to continue to build off of that so he can make decisions at the line of scrimmage and take advantage of things that he's done throughout the season by whether it's coverage, blitzes, fronts, things to take advantage of. So let's keep building on that part of it. The consistency piece, which is his mantra, that's what he's after, will continue to allow him to find that success. We want to replicate those special games. while there's different degrees of defenses that you face that create different challenges,

I know that's what's out there for us. And so I want to continue to grow that way. What he's done a great job of as a leader is, you know, as you can imagine, he is the KGVet. You know, he is the elderly statesman in a room of rookies and second year players, you know. And he embraces that. He embraces that role to come to work with consistency, to grind, to do all those things. So I'm excited for us to get back together in April at some point and to just continue to push that forward. Do you know one of the most fun things about watching what you guys did this year?

It wasn't for me like the highs and then how you were covered from the lows and all of those things. But you guys like really worked out loud. Like you problem solved and you could see it on the field what problems you were trying to solve from week to week. And specifically you want to talk about your passing game and your skill guys. because especially when Jalen came back, Ted McMillan had a great season, as we know. And when Jalen Coker came back, you could start to see you and Brad, I suppose,

because you guys are working together on this, start to build in some really interesting layers into your passing game, where there was depth to it, there was math. You guys were creating more math, I think, than previously with some of those matchups. What's the next step?

Who becomes the third puzzle piece here, whether he's on the roster or maybe you don't know yet. And how does that take another step forward to continue to build depth to it? Yeah, well, first it's time on task. And, you know, Jalen Coker had an injury right at the end of training camp, and that set him out for a little bit of time. So so thankful that David Moore, a guy that I've been with the long time, was able to step into the role for a while for a couple games.

But there was a little bit of a rotating, you know, just a rotation in the wide receiver room because of who was and wasn't available, we traded Adam Thielen, another guy that I loved. And so finding that chemistry took all of most of the season to get to a place where we were really operating. They were anticipating each other. I'm excited for Xavier Leggett. I'm excited for the jump and the leap that he's going to take this year. Why do I say that? It's because of the work he puts into it. I've been a receivers coach. I watch guys work on their craft. The ones who work the hardest, it happens for them. And he has. happens to be six, two and a half, two 30, and runs four, three, eight. And all of these things are

going to come in, the chemistry and the trust that Bryce has in him to continue to go to him in critical downs, you know, and with the ups and downs and the inconsistency, that's all of us as a whole. Like, we have to find consistency. But I'm really excited for this group. I'm excited for Jimmy Horn to see what he can do, to add an explosive element to what we're doing. And Bryce and Tremaine, a guy that played on special teams, did the dirty work, made some critical catches for us in different games. This is a really good group. Now it's Dan in mind.

It's our job to find players we can add, whether that's free agency or through the draft to challenge that room and to make it a really competitive position. Yeah, another position that could be in transition. Rico Dattle is a free agent for you. Do you expect that he would be back? And what are you kind of looking for in that room specifically? Those are all things that we're talking about right now, but it goes to that same room. you think about Jonathan Brooks coming back.

Trevor Eatian and what an amazing player he was in college and did a couple of things for us in the run game and I'm excited to see where he goes with it. But that's definitely a position that we can also challenge. And we're going to give the ball to the angriest, most explosive guy. And that person could be on our roster. It could be out there. And we're going to take all those things in consideration.

How do you measure anger, you know? Like if it's going to be the angriest, how are you calculating anger? There's a violence to it. There's a way that the ball is supposed to be run, and that's what we're looking for. Or take, like, an average Wednesday interacting with me, Greg. That's how you measure anger sometimes as well. I'd like great. I'd like to see you go through the whole.

How about one, you know, you went through all the offensive players before we let you go. One maybe defensive younger player on the roster that, you know, we have an audience that watches the whole league. So maybe someone that they're not as familiar with that you're excited to maybe see grow in your defense in the coming years. Well, Nick Scorton did a great job this year and was our second round pick, consistent, hardworking, talented, huge, just a really powerful player. And I'm excited to see him continue to expand his tool belt. Trevin Wallace, we got to get Trevin healthy. He's big and he's fast. And, you know, he's been a stud just playing through different things and managing that part of it.

But I'm excited to see Trevin get back out there. A guy that probably doesn't get mentioned is Corey Thornton. He actually moved into the starting lineup and was injured pretty quickly after that. But a guy that can play multiple positions. He can play outside corner. He can play nickel. And he's also played safety for us. A really versatile player, long and a really savvy football player.

I'm excited to see where he goes. And probably the last one I'll mention is Bam Martin Scott, you know, contributed in special teams. But he's a rocket. He plays with the right play style. you know, really excited to see his development as an inside linebacker. If you can, you know, give something to us. Well, I love this. You're doing homework for me for our season preview. Well, I'll tell you, too. That's cool that you bring up Corey because one of the top things I heard out of any camp was how excited your defensive guys were out of training camp this last year about Corey.

So that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Appreciate Dave Canales, joining us for a second straight year. You know, I'm not saying we were the cause of it, but a nice bump up last year. And so this is what my wins days are. Hopefully it can happen again that we talked again next year and we're talking about even more wins. Absolutely. I'm not superstitious, but I'm a little stitious. So, you know, this is a good, this is a good return.

Let's do it again next year. Absolutely. Thank you, Dave Canales. All right. Thanks, guys. Great to talk to Dave Canales and Dan Morgan was watching the combine coverage. And Canales gave a very similar answer to Rich Eisen and Daniel Jeremiah about the responsibility that Bryce Young is taken at the line of scrimmage.

That's how he's going to win. It's kind of from the neck up. So, you know, I was going to say get your information first from us because we got it literally first, but the show wasn't up. So that's a bad job by us, I guess. Great interviews. Appreciate that. Nick, thank you for hanging out. And I did want to note that as of Thursday night, if it wasn't already over, you're not allowed to say frame-mogged ever again.

Not that you were in the first place. Frame-mogged is done. What about maxing? Can I still use maxing with two X? Looks maxing. No, nothing. That's gone. Okay, good, because I didn't use any of that,

and I thought it was just unnecessary. But we can all thank Kyle Hamilton for that because he got frame-mogged during the NFL combine by none other than Sunny Stiles and a comparison on the screen. I mean, maybe it's just because I'm sensitive. I'm like a walking getting framed-mogged. I mean, anytime I've ever been on the show with you, Shook, certainly. But yes, for those who, you know, weren't watching the program,

Kyle Hamilton noted when they did the side-by-side, you know, height, weight, speed, and they compared Kyle Hamilton, who you would think would be, you know, even faster than these built, behemoth at linebacker, Sunny Stiles. No, even though Sunny Stiles was so much bigger and stronger, he was even faster than Kyle Hamilton, who's plenty of speedy. And, yeah, he sent a tweet out to NFL Network and Rich Eisen that he was getting frame-mogged And then the NFL social used the word frame mug. And actually, I was really happy.

Because when that happened, that's when I knew it was over. Yes. As soon as corporate America adopts any term, it all ends very quickly. It's like when swag became like a very big thing or yolo, like back 10, 15 years ago. And everyone was getting their swag bags. And everyone was saying yolo. And it was dead from then too. It went the way of Vine, unfortunately.

So we'll see. I mean, I, yeah, wasn't a fan anyways. I am a fan of all the work that you're going to be doing. Check out Nick Shook's All Combine team. Now, it comes out throughout the weekend, right? No, it comes out after the weekend. It'll be like Monday. Because you were writing today.

You're getting that work done. You're going to do that as well throughout the weekend. And then the big All Combine piece will come out at the very end of it all. And you're going to join the show. Our next show will be on Sunday. evening. So keep an eye out for that. Thank you to Eric Roberts for hanging out at what's probably a quiet Inglewood right now in terms of NFL media. It's going to be busy, though, in Indianapolis, have fun, Nick, and we'll be watching the quarterbacks, the offensive linemen, running backs,

all of it over the weekend. We'll see you Sunday now. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal. I know that, Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and free agents to podcast. The podcast that owns the NFL offseason. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trades. Every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts to my vaunted top 101 free agents

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