NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - The 2015 Dalton Scale

Episode Date: May 20, 2015

A room with some heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal and Chris Wesseling -- react to the latest NFL news including the new PAT rule changes (11:00), Justin Smith's retirement and Ryan Tannehill's extension (20:05). Plus, find out which quarterbacks are ahead of or below the "Dalton Scale" entering the 2015 NFL season (27:52).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast has no takeaways. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis and I'm joined by a room filled with some heroes. Chris Wessling to my left. Greg Rosenthal on my right. What is up, boys? Hey, Dan.

Don't sound disappointed for some heroes because we're going to make up for Mark Sessler's loss. And he's going to enjoy it. vacation. Mark is not a vacation. By the way, I apologize if I sound a little congested. My young son has caused me to fall ill. It's like a head cold.

But Mark is on a staycation. And, you know, when Mark's on a staycation, all bets are off. Who knows what he's doing? And I have, by the way, I've gotten a couple tweets about Mark while we're on the topic that people are intrigued would be one word to use by

his Instagram feed. This is from at Heath 082. What the hell is going on on Mark's Instagram? Please discuss on the next pod. You guys are great. Well, first of all, thanks, Heath. But I would say, and Wes and Greg, I don't know how close you follow Mark on Instagram.

I would say that it's kind of a look into the id of Mark Sessler, a little peek behind the curtain. I haven't been following Instagram closely at all. So it surprises me that people have all these strong takes on Mark's. I would just say Mark is a man of many talents, and the Instagram account is showing off some of that photography talent that he's got cooking. Right, and I think the allusion to what the hell is going on there, sometimes there's pictures of like dolls from the 1800s or just a Dewey Meadow or a street in downtown L.A. It's all over the map. There's a purpose behind what he posts on.

Yeah. I'm sure there is. It's not for them to know. And he keeps it mysterious on purpose. Of course. We do not keep it mysterious when it comes to, you know, talking about what's going to happen on top. today's show. I'm going to lay it all out for you here. How you like that T-D behind the glass? Nice segue. Thank you, buddy boy. We are going to get into some news and we have some fairly

big stuff to get to about major change in the rules and deflategate. I would say it's something that it's starting to wind down, but it's just the next chapter, really, ultimately. But after we get through the news, it's something that a tease for a bit now when we decided downstairs this morning that this is the day to do it. The Dalton scale around the NFL special, we're going to really dig in on the Dalton scale and really, you know, get to the bottom of it. And maybe, personally speaking,

get some clarity on, you know, what the hell it is. I wouldn't be too confident about that. Three years in, Hansus is still trying to figure out Quirce Wessling's amazing dissection, beautiful in its simplicity, like the best scientific. formulas. It was until this afternoon. It decides whether you have a franchise quarterback or not. The Dalton scale is undergoing an existential crisis.

Wow. So this is the perfect time to get into it. So yes, that will be the rest of the show. You know, set aside a nice chunk of time to really dig in on the Dalton scale and where all of the starters in the NFL fit in, whether it's franchise quarterback or whether you are a stiff. TD behind the glass. How are you? Formally now, I will say, How are you, buddy? What's going on, guys? I'm doing well. I had a good asai bowl for lunch today.

A what? A sigh bowl. You guys don't get down with the whole assai. Why are you telling you that? Is that even the right way to pronounce it? Probably not. It's an asai bowl, yeah. What is it meat?

Is it meat? No. No, it's like a super fruit. Superfood. Why are you telling us this? Because that's what I did. You know, this was your one chance to get in Mark's good graces by talking about a fruit-based lunch and you let it go by the board.

I know. Maybe that was on perfect. purpose. I'm just hypnotized by Mark's Instagram right now. It's really weird. Let's do some news. All right. Podcasts are great. Radio's boring. You know, I love Aziz, or I like him, I should say,

but we've heard that before. We have heard that before. It's a good place to order to pull the curtain back a little bit. Our service is down. I actually had a nice Don Draper Mad Men, you know, nod for today, but can't do it. We'll do it Thursday.

And by the way, you know, when we were getting ready to roll today, we started talking about Med Men, you said, no spoilers, right? No spoilers, I still know the finale was this past week. I'm just saying when it comes to a series finale, especially of one of this level. Have you even been watching the show at all? I have, yeah. Prestige television. Two days, you get 24 hours, tops.

I haven't kept up with the season. In terms of when the spoiler is in play. I watched the first two of the season this past Sunday. Hey, you're way behind. Spoiler. People are creeps. Money rules the world. Cream.

It's all you need to know. Everything around me. And, yeah, Don Draper getting assassinated is not something you would have seen coming, but that's... See, I'm legitimately mad at you because now that's off the table as a possibility. Oh, okay. Take that one out of your quiver. Don Draper not gun down. TD deduces.

All right, here we go. Let's start with the latest in Deflategate, Robert Kraft, speaking at the Spring League meeting on Tuesday called off the dogs. He told a group of reporters in a six-minute speech or not speech, but six-minute address that the Patriots will not appeal the discipline connected to the investigation

of the use of underinflated balls in the AFC title game so that $1 million fine and the loss of a first-round pick in 2016 and a fourth-round pick in 2017, they're just going to eat it. That's what it is. And Kraft went on to explain the reason why is that, you know, there should be no reason

why one team should be put ahead of the other 32 teams he said. And even though he disagrees with the discipline and the judgment, he feels like this has been dragged out way too long already and they need to move on. So he says the Patriots are done. Now, minutes after Kraft gets off the stage, you ask, oh, what about Tom Brady? The NFLPA releases a tweet explaining that the Tom Brady appeal is, you know, is on and is not going away or as they try to wipe out or significantly reduce

that four-game suspension. So the Patriots take their punishment. Brady continues his fight. I think it was an easy move relatively for Robert Kraft to make because he knows that Tom Brady's going to continue his fight. And maybe, just maybe,

this helps their chances of having Tom Brady listen to by Roger Goodell and having a suspension reduce. And ultimately, that's what they care about more. They didn't want to get into some gigantic legal battle with the NFL. I agree, and I think it's well set up now. Not that any of us know what direction this is going to go,

because I don't think anybody thought the discipline was going to be this series in the first place. It knocked everybody on their asses. But, oh, sorry, their buttoxes. TD doesn't like. No need to mark it, but glutes. Knocked them on our glutes. We didn't realize what was going to happen. But now it seems set up to me.

All right, Kraft does the NFL solid, says I'm not going to take this to the courts. all that stuff, and now all you need to do, Rog, is, you know, cut down my quarterback suspension, cut it in half, even I'll probably take that, and then everybody kind of can move forward. That's how I see playing out West. Do you see an album branch coming from the commissioner's office? Or back-channel politics, however you want to phrase it. I mean, that's why it's a little depressing to me that this is the way things are done in the world. You think that actually a guy might fight for principal, and then he basically capitulates, leaves his fan base hanging high dry.

Poor fan base. I'm a little bit ambivalent. I like that he made it a point to say that he wants the rhetoric to die down because that was my biggest problem with this whole controversy all along that the rhetoric was just so far outpacing what actually happened. And building. And he alluded to that too. He said four months later, I can't believe we're still talking about this.

And it needs the end. And he tried to make the case, he's going to do what's best for the other 32 owners rather than just thinking about the Patriots, which is how. the NFL model is really built. But let's back off calling, you know, Mr. Kraft. Mr. Craft. I'm going to call Mr. Graff. Let's back off on calling him a winner today.

Or they, wow, what a great move. He really played this. It's like everyone looks bad here. He knows it. The Wells Contextreport.com or whatever is still up. That thing was, you know, kind of crazy. And it just came from the Patriots just a few days ago. So, well, he said it.

It's great to back away from the table. Big deal. Even to just because he didn't take any questions afterwards. So I think he wanted to cover himself a little bit on that, because it is pretty wild that that WordPress, rambling WordPress document comes out. And then, you know, five days later, whatever it is, he says, oh, we're not going to appeal. So he said that if this would have been a week ago, I probably would not have had this opinion about how to move forward. But, you know, given another week, I've decided to move on. Thankfully.

Yeah. And that's good news for everyone. And just one other bit of information, the union also formally has requested Goodell to recuse himself. One of my favorite words in legal mumbo-jumbo? Recuse. Recuse himself from Tom Brady's appeal because Goddell has the power to hear an appeal of his own ruling,

which just seems a little weird and needs to be fixed, I would think, by the next CBA maybe. Well, that was a big part of the negotiation, and he gave up some of that power, but not all. And when we were last in the studio, we were debating and no one thought that Godell would appoint himself and that's exactly what he did and now he gets to meet with Brady himself. And now he does hear it himself and then he slashes Brady's suspension.

That's the prediction of my end. It's the union's fault for giving in to that request during the last CBA. That was one of the few things at the end that they couldn't agree on in the union capitulated to that one. I do want to one thing about that and we hear it again and again that the union got killed off that last CBA. but, you know, maybe if they didn't back down, there would have been no 2011 season. It was headed in a pretty dark direction. So as a football fan, you know.

I don't understand why writers really care whether the union gets kicked. Right, I agree with that. People really get into that. I just want to get everybody on the field. Oh, yeah, they really lost because they only got 59.5% of the total money. Instead of 61.8, it's like... I'm always rooting for football.

I don't care about the players or the owners. Give me the best product. Which is why I'm happy with everything. that happened with craft today, if only because we don't have to write about this stuff, and hopefully it ends faster. Exactly. All right, moving on to some on the field, a big change that went down. It was voted through at the same meetings, spring league meetings on Tuesday.

The NFL has moved to extra points to the 15-yard line for the 2015 season. That will make it officially a, what is that, 33-yard extra point attempt with, which is obviously a lot tougher than the 17-yard attempt. Well, maybe not a lot tougher, but it is significantly harder a kick than the 17-yarder. The two-point conversion, which the Eagles had proposed moving that from the two-to-the-one, that did not happen. However, you now can return a two-point conversion, a fumble recovery or an interception the other way, and get two-points for the defense.

That's a new rule. So those are the changes. The extra point got a little bit tougher, and the two-point conversion, there's a little more risk on the offensive side of the ball. Wes is pumped up about this. I haven't seen him this excited. Give me a break, Wes. Wes, you're going to be the two-point conversion

rule-change beat writer for the rest of the season, tracking all the changes. This is the first scoring change since 1994 in the NFL. Ow, scoring change. It's going to be less extra points. The extra point was the most pointless, or the most useless play in sports. So this is going to be the second most useless now.

I mean, there'll be more two-point conversion. Best free throw shooter in NBA history? Larry Bird? No, but close. But even if he is, he didn't make 93%. Thunder Dan Marley? He didn't make 93%, which is about what kickers are going to make. How do you like it when an-

Do you know the answer? No, it could be Steve Kerr, I don't know. Maybe Steph Curry? Let's stop down the podcast and find out who best. Keep going, West. Keep going. I think the point is when you're watching a riveting basketball game, a stop in the action to watch a guy shoot free throws is not fun.

And the NFL extra point is, still basically a free throw. I mean, how is this a fun off-season story? It's not the biggest deal in the world. It is Steve Nash, by the way. Wouldn't have known that. See, now we learn something. What's his percentage?

90.4. Okay, so the kickers are going to do better than that. It's funny, 90.4 is the number because Dean Blandino explained they moved it to the 15-yard line specifically because that was the cutoff between 90 and 89%. They wanted it to be about 90%. the owners felt it was too low if it got below 90%. It's a half measure. I agree with that.

It is a half measure. I wish they just moved it back. But anything that involves more two-point conversion or adds a little more suspense, why not? Two-point conversions are exciting. This is why I don't like it is because it is a half-measure because all you're really doing ultimately because you didn't make the two-point conversion any more enticing. In fact, to me, you made it more dangerous by having the defense be able to score points of it. And what all we're doing here...

Well, that's fun. That'll happen like three times a year, and that'll be great when they're returning an interception. Can we worry about that in October then? All we're really setting this up for is the freaking kickers to be deciding games on extra points. That's been my issue. This whole time was like, oh, how do we fix the extra point?

Don't fix it by making the game more important and leaning on the kickers. The kickers have enough on their plate. We don't want them deciding games. They're getting rid of it. I mean, they should get rid of it. They should have moved the two-point conversion to the one and really made the extra point almost an after.

thought in my mind. Really go for it and only leave it to the Joe Philbans of the world to be kicking 35-yard field goals, extra points. You know what I mean? Instead, what we're going to have a situation is guys missing extra points and teams losing 21-20. That ain't cool. Hey, human history is filled with half measures that lead to progress.

You know, you got to move. You got to move it back a little bit before you get rid of it totally. It's more filled with the law of unintended consequences. Okay. What's going to happen here? You don't know. That's one of the thing about the law. of unattended consequences. You don't see it ahead of time.

This from Pro Football Focus, 30 to 35-yard field goal accuracy in 2013 and 2014 by location. Left hash, 91.6, center, 97.6. Right hash 93.8. I assume this is always center. It's going to be the center hash for an extra point attempt. So it's going to be a big, no change. It's not going to be a big difference. Teams are going to go for two, like, four times a year instead of twice. Right. I saw something on average, most teams around. That amazing. me, only about two, even less than three, two-point conversion tries every season.

Backs up my point that this is a non-story. Hey, one of the most exciting plays that led to the Seahawks winning the Super Bowl, two-point conversion, I mean, making the Super Bowl. I mean, that Russell Wilson plays, one of the most underrated plays in NFL history. That's the exception rather than the rule. Moving on, there is another stalwart defensive player on the 49ers. Moving on, defensive tackle Justin Smith has decided to retire. this after Smith went through a long period of questioning whether he wanted to come back.

He met with the Niners last week, and the decision was made that after 14 seasons, seven of which spent with the 49ers after seven in Cincinnati, the five-time pro bowler decides to shut it down. And this was his quote, when you get on the bald tires, you're on the bald tires. It was just time for me to move on. Greg Justin Smith, in your opinion, in your estimation, one of the unheralded great NFL players since the turn of the century.

Yeah, well, his career spans that entire time because he came into the league right after 2000. Y2K, man, what's going to happen? Everyone was, didn't you have a Y2K story or that was Mark Sessler? I didn't, what was it? When I was working at the law firm, I was in charge of making sure that all of the programs

were complicit with the Y2K. It was a lot of data entry. What a ridiculous. it was awful thing so happy you're here now west Justin Smith was a very good starter in Cincinnati that didn't get a lot of love because he played for a lousy team and you know his specialties don't make sports center he's not getting sacks he was more of a run stuffer

I think of him as one of the pure strongest players of the last 14 years I mean he could pick up guys and move them and when he went to San Francisco to me he's almost he's just as memorable as Patrick Willis as the leader of that defense with Harbaugh, because he's kind of like he was their leader. When I broke up with my first girlfriend, my dad had some really good advice for me.

Timing is everything in life. If I had met her when I was 30, it would have been much better than meeting her at 17 or 18 or whatever. So Justin Smith, timing is everything. He came in with the Bengals under Dick LeBoe when they were still kind of down the rabbit hole as a franchise. and just like Greg said Justin Smith wasn't getting any attention

that coaching step was also not developing players as well as they should have and I think it's worth noting that Justin Smith doesn't get a single Pro Bowl nod in his what, eight years with the Bengals or seven years with the Bengals and then immediately gets five in his first six years with the 49ers he could

be a 12 or 13 Pro Bowl guy which would be a guy you'd talk about for the Hall of Fame I think he'll be mentioned but I don't think you'll get into that final 15 doesn't seem like or if he came along with the Bengals in 2010, probably would have had a better career. Great couple plays, I remember, in the 2011 season before we move on, where he basically had game-saving or game-winning plays.

And there was a lot of talk that he might be the defensive player of the year that year. He was really the favorite throughout most of it. It ended up being Terrell Suggs, kind of beat him at the end. I think he finished third in the voting in the end. But a great player, salutations, and this 49ers defense has a lot of no-names in it. no yeah congrats justin smith on a great career hey west the y2k compliance he couldn't have been more dismiss so when you were when you were you do all the work i assume a lot of it was done in december grunt work or whether was this a i think it was like a year long thing jesus so when

it wasn't something i was doing eight hours a day it was something i had to do in addition to other work it was just like when you have free time make sure you x out all these extra zeros or whatever i don't know so where were you on the p-pants scale at like 1158 uh Zero. The 31st. Zero. If anything would have gone wrong, it wouldn't have been my fault. I was just doing what I was told to do.

I thought you were leading the charge. No, I was told that this stuff should be Xed out or whatever. For what, nobody ever knew why Y2K was important. You were just told that it could, like disaster could strike. Like the millennials listening right now that were six or whatever when Y2K, basically what you were told is that all the traffic lights would stop working and everyone would die in a car accident at the same time. Yeah, this was a law firm where I was in charge of records management and they were little. worried about retention policies on old files, which in legal terms, you can get in a lot of trouble if you lose track of your old files. Estate planning, you know, all this stuff,

because people need their files. Let's have a whole separate podcast on that. It would have been great if all of your, how many brothers you have again? Six. Six. If you all, when it became lawyers and then opened a firm, it'd be Wesleying and Wesleying and Wesleying and Wesley and Wesley and Wesley and Wesley. Maybe we could represent the one. All right, moving on to Ryan Tannahill, who is a very, he was already a rich man. Let's face it. It's a nice life this Ryan Tannibal has.

But now he's even richer. He signs a mega deal with the Dolphins and extension through the 2020 season. The team announced on Monday, 26-year-old, signs a four-year deal, includes $77 million in new money, and $25 million is fully guaranteed with, I guess, $45 million in, let's put it in air quotes, guarantees over the life of the deal. but there are some outs for the Dolphins. But 25 fully guaranteed four more years to his deal. So Ryan Tannahill now getting paid like a star franchise quarterback

or in that range, Greg. He's getting paid like a mid-to-upper-tier starter, which is, I think, what he is. I don't think he's getting more than that. If you look at the deal, he's only getting, only, getting $39 million over the next three years. So that's $13 million a year, and at that point they can get rid of him.

So they're paying him like he's Andy Dalton. Basically, yeah. Right around Andy Dalton, similar to Colin Kaepernick. He got a little more money on the back end. If they want to keep him, he'll be at a higher salary, $19 million. But if you think about it, if he's a top 10 quarterback in 2017, 2018, that's $19 million. It's not going to be a bad price at all. I like how the agent sold this in all the Miami Papers today that he's top six or seven in pay.

Yeah, give me a break. And then I love this line. He's talking about how great the contract is for Tana Hill And then he says, I fully believe that we may end up regretting this deal one day Do you want your agent to say that? I think this guy has all the ingredients to be an elite player No, your job, Mr. Agent, is to get the deal that takes advantage of those primaries Are you supposed to be that good?

You did a bad job, bud. What's the agent's name? I think Pat die. Do you think Ryan Tannahill, I know this is, you know, talk about speculating. If you had to wager your life on it, would you pick Ryan Tannahill as a member of the Miami Dolphins in 2018? No. 17. I'm not comfortable waging my life with Ryan Tannahill. Well, you don't have a choice.

These things, I keep going, and I don't think it was a terrible decision to lock them up, but I maybe would. Ultimately, I might have went the Ravens route with Joe Flacko. I know it blew up in their face, but, you know, boo-hoo, you want a Super Bowl title. I should have kind of waited it out and given them another year, see where this career is truly progressing, but they decided to just go in and pay them. At least they didn't break the bank. I guess that is the positive.

What happened last time Mr. T. did this? Well, Mark Sanchez, one of the worst, most indefensible signings in NFL last 10 years. There was more to that. Not defensible in any way, but it wasn't quite the same. The Peyton Manning Sweepsake somehow bled into the Sanchez negotiations. It was an apology. Yeah, I never understood how Mark Sanchez did. deserves an apology country.

It was the beginning of the end in so many ways for a lot of the guys with the Jets. But you brought up Tannenbaum, not on the dais for the press conference that we got to enjoy. And I'll say enjoy, you know, take that with a grain of salt. With Dennis Hickey, the FOGIA. The Hickster. Yeah, the Hickster, we like to call him. Of course, Tannahill, Dead Center, a complete, literally like maybe raises his voice about at the same level. of Ivan Drago.

There's not much going on there. And then to his right, Joey Feldman, the coach, gets a seat. Remember at the Sioux signing, introductory signing? He wasn't even on the day. There were a couple of pressures in a row where he wasn't even on the day. So this time there was no Mr. T.

After seeing him today, I can see why they leave him out in the crowd. It was the most charisma-free press comments I ever seen. I tweeted I did the power rankings of the charisma from the press comments. I got Tanna Hill at 1, but that was really by default. Just because he's a young, handsome man with a lot of money and a gorgeous wife. I feel like he sold the staples short or whatever. The tape recorder was wrapped.

Taper quarter number 2 is my number 2 because it was white. So it had a little heat to it is a little different than the other ones. Three, Hickey. Hickster gets third. The Dolphins logo backdrop that was behind them. Fourth. Then they had three mics for each of the guys. That's a three-way tie, five, six, seven.

And then Joey Phibbs. Well, I think it's a sad scene Because Tannahill makes Eli Manning look like Chris Rock I mean Tannahill is not an exciting guy to listen to The 2014 Titans have more charisma Than that entire list It is amazing

There's no way Joe Philman's there next year That was the other thing I couldn't get out of my mind Two things I couldn't get out of mind about this contract Number one Does exactly command a room Joe Philman Almost bench Tannahill What are you called him?

Philbman Philbin Oh yeah, Philbin I thought you were saying Joey Phibbs? Joey Phibbs almost benched Tannehill, and then Tannihill called a press conference and announced he was the starter. I like that.

Took it out of Joey Phibbs's dance. Now you give him 77 million over four years. And then, you know, to me that really jumps out to me is, you know, what's going on with this organization. It is interesting that, like you mentioned, so recently he was on the edge of whether he was going to keep that job. He's really tied to Bill Laser because his production went up so dramatically with this new system and you weren't sure

if it was all Tannahill or was it the system and so they need to be wary of the fact if you fire Joe Philbin you're probably firing Bill Laser and then Tannahill's starting over that's a problem. I thought about this because I've been talking about Tannahill a large percentage

of his progress was due to this gimmick offense. The Dolphins ran no huddle I believe 82% of their plays last year but the league average is over 60% now so no matter where Tana Hill goes he's going to be in an offense that suits him better than it would have five or six years ago. You know, one last thing is, you know, I'm surprised he gets the contract before Andrew Luck, before Russell Wilson.

But when I watched him during his rookie year, one of my favorite things I got to do on the site was watch each one of the rookies every snap. I mean, he has every raw skill that you could want, and he has improved every year. He does not have a good deep ball at all. But if we're going to give Chip Kelly so much love for kind of creating an offense, I mean, maybe later. and Tannahill together, they could be a good thing. Imagine Ryan Tannahill in Chip Kelly's office. Maybe you don't need to be more. Billing Sessler's shoes right now, pump it up the O.C.

He's wildly athletic. He's pretty smart. He's pretty accurate. I mean, you've got a lot of good things going for. The other way to look at that is he didn't even have as good of a year as Nick Fools did two years ago, and Nick Fulz has already washed out of Philadelphia. How much credit do you give to Tannehill versus the offense is so quarterback? More talent and more upside because he hasn't played quarterback. More talent, but he can't go down the field whatsoever.

I found it telling, even in the highlights when they're doing the press conference, everything seemed to be dink and dunk with Tannhill. It is. And it's a totally new team, too, which is a lot of pressure on him, because three of his top four options are new players now. So you've got to mix them in. Now, you know, we talk about Ryan Tannhill. That's what's happening with the news, by the way.

We talk about Ryan Tannihill, and, you know, he's an interesting case because he, to me, and I think we might all be in agreement, he is definitely in that discussion about the Dalton scale. And let's talk a little bit at first about the origins of the Dalton scale. Chris Wessling initially brought this up in the podcast a couple years ago that he believed that Andy Dalton was, I guess what you would call the prime meridian of NFL QBs. And if you were ahead of Andy Dalton, well, how about this, Wes? You have maybe a glossary explanation because, you know, famously, I don't quite grasp this at all.

So I'm hoping by the end of today's podcast, it will. be in my brain a complete understanding of the Dalton scale. I don't, I wouldn't hold your breath. Okay. I'm starting to get. Is that a shot at my intelligence? No, I used to be, but not anymore. Okay, that's fine. That's fine. How about a glossary explanation or a glossary term, what is the Dalton scale? Andy Dalton stands as the prime

meridian of NFL quarterbacks. Sorry, I stepped on your prime meridian. That's all right. Okay. Any quarterback ranked above Dalton is a viable franchise player. Any quarterback below Dalton is a problem, not a solution, Dalton himself is quarterback purgatory personified. Very good. Basically, to me, it always came down to the question.

Do you have a, do you need to get a new quarterback? Exactly. If the answer is yes, then he's below the Dalton scale. If the answer is no, then you're okay. And if it's Andy Dalton, you just don't know what to do. You're crazy. Keep on going to the playoffs and losing on Saturday. Stockton Pergatory.

All right. So before we get into, we're going to figure out some of these quarterbacks that exist. We're going to put our focus on the quarterbacks that exist in that Dalton scale zone, right, around where Dalton is and what side of the line they fall in. So before we get going, we're going to throw out 10 names that aren't even in the discussion because we're all in agreement are obvious franchise solutions at this stage and are not in this discussion. So in alphabetical order, I don't want anyone to think of them. This is not a countdown or a power rankings of the best quarterbacks, okay?

Although I like Europe getting involved. And I mean our podcast listeners in Europe and also the 80s rock band. But Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, Aaron Rogers, Ben Rothelsberger, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, and Russell Wilson. Those 10 quarterbacks, we have all agreed, are above the Dalton scale. and I know that goosebumps all across the nation with these quarterbacks. We will not discuss.

Hey, Manning much closer on my list to Andy Dalton than he is, I guess, on either of yours. Okay, fair enough. We can get into that. Now, on the other side of the discussion, some quarterbacks, and this one, you guys stop me if I'm out of bounds. Well, let's define our parameters here first. We're talking about going forward with your franchise, not just for the 2015 season, but going forward, who do you want?

As your quarterback. Sure. Okay. Stop me if any of these guys, you're like, well, I might want him a part of my franchise. Matt Castle, E.J. Manuel, Gino Smith. Hard pause for Greg to defend him. No, I think Gino Smith has the potential to someday be above the Dalton on the Dalton scale. But he's definitely not right now.

He would have to prove a lot more. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh McCown, Johnny Mansell, Ryan Mallet, Brian Hoyer. Ryan Lindley. All those other guys. Blake Bortles I put there, unless somebody wants to put him in complete. Ryan Lindley's below the Blaine-Gabbard scale. Blake Bortles? Bortles I have way above Dalton.

Really? Whoa, all right. Well, let me take them off this little sad list. But again, this is where the existential crisis comes in for the Dalton scale. I feel like there has to be an off-season scale and an in-season scale. When this started, Andy Dalton was a competitive advantage of making $2 million a year. Now he's a competitive disadvantage, making $15 million a year. Don't worry about the contract.

But if you're running an NFL team, you have to worry about the contract. But either way, he's a quarterback that's not getting in the way enough of a 10-and-6 season. He's basically kind of keeping them afloat moving forward. At this point, are you confident Blake Bordos will ever be a better-than-average starter? I like Bordos a lot, but I don't even know for sure. This is why I'm changing, there's an existential crisis because Blake Bortle isn't a franchise quarterback, but at this point I know what Andy Dalton is, and I don't want that. I don't want 10 and 6 in the first round playoff exit.

I'll take my chances whether I saw from Blake Bortles in the preseason last year when he showed difference-making potential. To me, it's more about right now, though, isn't it? It's whether right now they're above or below. I thought we said it was, who's going to be your quarterback for your franchise going forward? Okay. That's why it's a different discussion in May than it is in October. Just to throw some fill into this fire. On the earlier DDFP show today,

Dammerstakes said that a lot of GMs would take Andy Dalton over James Winston because Andy Dalton is safer. No way. I told him no chance. Did you see the package that the Bucks and the Titans were turning down for this stuff? I don't think one single team would. I agree with, yeah. Okay, yeah.

And maybe that, famously, I struggle famously, Greg. a struggle with the Dalton's skill because I've always wondered as he seems to fade in the or at least in this room's view of what kind of quarterback he is, what kind of upside. Wouldn't that make more guys in front of him and then all those guys are answers?

Is he still the Prime Moranian if he starts to regret? I don't think he is. I disagree. Just because he's entrenched in his Andy Daltonness, that's what he was all along. He's always been he's always been... Well, maybe the answer is that there's a lot better quarterbacks now than there were a couple of

He's always been that middle-of-the-pack guy. I've done the quarterback index or whatever where I rank the quarterbacks. At the end of the year, in 2013, he was 18th. Last year, he was 19th for what it's worth, which to me feels about right. And so the guys that have proven, and I'll throw one name out here, which we could talk about, Teddy Bridgewater. To me, he's already above the Dalton scale, but he would be the only one of last year's rookies that I would put above there now. That I would be surprised at this point if he does not evolve into a better. than average starting quarterback.

I think you and I are looking at this exercise differently. We need to come to an agreement. And we better do it before it goes up the world. Because I threw it out that we're talking about who do you want for your franchise going forward. It seems like you're talking about only for the 2015 season. No, I'm talking about basically what they've done. But I hear you.

I would rather have Bordals than Dalton to answer your question. You'd rather take the risk that Bortles become something rather than knowing what you have with Andy Dalton. That's fair. Can I explain to people what Andy Dalton is right now as a quarterback? Talk about where Andy Dalton is. In 14 prime time and playoff games, Andy Dalton is the same amount of starts as E.J. Manuel has in his career.

Andy Dalton would have to have three lights out games to reach E.J. Manuel's one loss record, completion percentage, touchdown to interception ratio, and passer rating in those games. That's how bad Andy Dalton has been in games that matter. He's a flat track bully is what cricket players we call, a guy who feasts on inferior competition. His record, 37, 16, and 1 in all other games besides games, basically, when the lights are on him. So to me, that's not what I want in a quarterback.

Okay, so he's a guy that puts up solid numbers. He gets his, or he's on playoff teams. He's already. He always fall flat in the playoffs. Not always his fault this past January. You're not going to hang that first round playoff loss on Dalton, but certainly he wasn't good enough to raise the team above the issue. they were dealing with. Let's stick with Bortles for one more second because I disagree where

Greg, you're coming from on that. To me, if we're talking about the Dalton scale, you've got to earn your way on the other side of that Dalton scale. And I didn't think Bortles did anything last year to show me that he's a guy. And again, we're going off Wes's glossary of terms here that he is on the other side of the prime Iranian. What was the exact wording, Wes, you had? any quarterback ranked above Dalton is a viable franchise player We don't know Below Dalton is a problem, not a solution We don't know if Lake Quarles is a viable franchise

That's why I don't like the definition anymore Because I'm definitely taking Bortles over Dalton And I'd be surprised if anybody's not taking Bortals over Dalton Bortals to me showed enough Just in terms of his traits And if you looked at the situation around him If you put Andy Dalton on that Jaguars team Maybe he would have been a little

better as a rookie, but Bortle show the types of things that you like to see out of a young quarterback that you think he can be a lot better. And Dalton, on the other hand, even though he had that year in 2013, people think of, he was so great, he had 4,200 yards, 33 touchdowns, 20 interceptions. His QBR in his first four seasons are unbelievably similar. 49, 49, 55, 55. So he's basically been the same guy all four years. Let me explain this in a more simpler way. If you're choice is between Blake Bortles and Andy Dalton. Bortles carries no risk whatsoever. Because if he

flames out, you're not left with Andy Dalton overpaid at $15 million a year and stuck in mediocrity. You know, there's no downside to it in my opinion. There's a downside to whiffing on a top five pick. Yeah, and getting fired. It's front office clean out. It is, there is

guaranteed money, maybe not as much. But then you're basically, when you whip on a pick like that, your franchise sticks, is in mud for years. You have a much better chance of building a Super Bowl contender with a $3 million quarterback who has all the tools versus a guy like Andy Dalton who really might stop you from signing some of your key players because you've got him not making that much. Let me throw another player out there.

He's making a few million dollars more than Carlos Dunlap. Let's not get carried away. He's making $16 million annually over the length of his deal. Let me throw another player out there. Sam Bradford. He to me is right on that line. Yeah, I agree. Where you could go either way.

Do you see him as a part of the solution or part of the problem? I have him five spots ahead of Andy Dahlton. He went for a first round pick. If he was on the Rams, though, would you feel that way? It shouldn't matter what team he's on. You know what I mean? He should make a team. It's just Sam Bradford.

The answer I would say to that is that if someone is smart as Chip Kelly sees value in him, that factors into the equation. I have a hard time putting him above the Dalton scale right now because I don't really have any faith. He hasn't shown much when he has been healthy, and I don't have any faith that he will stay healthy. So I actually think Andy Dalton would have the edge there. I agree.

I think back-to-back knee injuries and the fact that as far as I'm concerned, Chip Kelly's plan was to flip Bradford all along, and now he's stuck with him. So I'm sure he believes now that he's moving forward. He can turn Bradford into a successful quarterback. But at the same time, everyone knows what Chip wanted to do this month and it didn't work out

and now he's going to try to make the most of it with Bradford how about I disagree with that I don't think that was ever like his plan all along was to trade Bradford I don't think it I don't agree with it I think the funny thing is I'm putting him below that and yet it wouldn't surprise me if Sam Bradford wins comeback player of the year

I think he's a guy that could be on her making the leap list I think he's a guy who's set up to have a monster season but he's someone I feel like I need to see it with Andy Dalton I've seen it how about Joe Flacco now I know Ravens, we're going to get some heat for not including him in that list of 10 that weren't even the discussion. This is a guy that has never missed the game, has been as dependable as it gets, maybe not a statistical

stud for most of his career, but he went on one of the best postseason runs ever that culminated with the Super Bowl MVP and a Super Bowl win over the 49ers. And this past January, he was a stud at Gillette Stadium when toe-to-to-to of Peyton Manning came out on the losing end, but again showed that he's a playoff stud. I think he's at absolutely on the right side of this discussion. And I don't know why there would be any debate. I don't see any debate.

I have him as a top 10 quarterback and 10 spots higher than Peyton Manning on my list. I thought there was a question mark in one of our initial emails. All right, good. I'm happy to hear this. No, no, no. I was more a question mark. Did you guys want him? He was 11th on my list.

I agree. It shouldn't be a debate. And he's someone that's more impressive when you watch him, really, than if you just look at the numbers. Okay, Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49, his quarterback. You know, he was in that Super Bowl as well that Flacco was in, and he was a stud in that game, and he was a stud in that season.

And yet he's never really been able to take his game up since then. In fact, it seems like he's really plateaued, and now he's in a weird situation with the Niners and Jim Tom Sula. Jim Harbaugh is gone. This is crazy because remember, all we ever heard about was, oh, my God, that Bengals could have had Colin Kaepernick, and they ended up with Andy Dalton. And now I'm like, oh, maybe it's not that.

It wasn't that a huge mistake. And it doesn't seem as a backbreaking a mistake anymore as it once did. So where are you putting him? I'm going to put him just above Dalton, but it's way closer than it was two years ago. It is closer. I'm still trusting that initial flash of excitement with Kaepernick because just the skill set he has was enough to make someone

who's pretty smart about quarterbacks, Ron Jaworski, say that he's got the skills to be the best quarterback ever. That was ridiculous. It was ridiculous, but you knew what he meant, which is that this guy is like a, if you built a robot to play football, it'd be a lot like Colin Kaepernick. It'd be Andrew Luck, not Colin Kaepernick. That's fair. One thing also with Kaepernick, I could kind of see he's in a bit of a career valley maybe on some level right now, and I could still see it getting maybe a little bit worse before it gets better. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tom Sula era doesn't last long, and either he's swept out, Kaepernick, or Tom Sula's swept out.

that and there's another fresh start. I'm not giving up on Kaepernick, but I got to, I'm not sold that things are going to get turned around this season. I'm putting him solidly above them, but I totally understand the debate. Because, Wes, who do you think played better at football in 2014? Andy Dalton or Kaepernick? Kaepernick. It's close, though. It's close, but I don't just look at it. It was not a good Dalton year. I'm not looking just at the 2014 season. No, that's what I asked you. I mean, we can decry small sample size, but Colin Kaepernick's playoff, he has a QBR over 80 and Dalton has

QBR under 20 I mean to me it's not even close you see what one guy can do when the lights are on and the other guy doesn't. Eli Manning again I'm way on the plus side with this yeah we got I'll agree there right he's shown us twice in the playoffs takes his game up a notch

Wes I know you haven't always been the biggest Eli fan but you know you've said that O'Dell Beckham is a chance to take his career and make it more explosive over years to come we think he's safe above Andy Dalton, correct? Yeah.

I have Eli Manning in the top 15, and I have Andy Dalton below 25, so yeah. What, below 25? Whoa. For quarterbacks that I want to go forward in my franchise, I dare you to find a problem with any of these guys over Andy Dalton. Well, how about, let's, I know you've got a list here. Do we want to hear Wes is 20 to 24? Sure, throw them out. Yeah, that's here.

20, Teddy Bridgewater? Okay, I'm definitely, would you take Bridgewater over Dallas? We should give our ruling. 21, Carson Palmer? Carson Palmer. I don't know about that. He has been the guy when I do these rankings or whatever. Last year he was Palmer got hurt, but even during the season, he to me is right at the

Dalton scale. It's funny because he's the guy Dalton replaced. 13 and 2 in his last 15 games. Pass a rating of 97. Wait, we talk about that all the time. Hasn't been able to... The win-loss stuff is misleading. By the way, I love it that you're talking up Carson Palmer.

For years, I was talking of Carson Palmer. You can't hang it all at the quarterback's feet. Of course you can't, but it matters. We've talked about that the other direction before in this very podcast, that it's unfair to take Andy Dalton winning 10 games every year and put it at his feet. Well, I think 13 and 2 is a lot different than 10. I wish I could take a time machine back to 2010 or 11 and be like,

Hey, Wes, Greg was right about Carson Palmer. Hey, Greg was right. Coaching matters. Carson Palmer is excelling under the tutelage of Bruce. How about the fact that he's coming off a second ACL tear and he's 38 years old? I still want that over the purgatory that is Andy Dolk. And not just for one season. You're looking into the future. Exactly. But like I said, I'm probably going to cut Andy Dalton next year anyway because he's overpaid. You're struggling with the contract. I'm thinking more just about the player.

And for me, for Palmer, when I asked the question, do you still need a quarterback if you have Palmer? The answer to me is yes. Because he made an answer with Dalton, isn't it? Well, then he's not the... See, this is where I always get confused because then the Dalton scale doesn't work because if you know the answer... Whoa, but this is your scale!

I just told you today, I had this epiphany. It's got an existential crisis. See, I was right all along. It's confusing. It used to work when he got paid $2 million a year. It does make sense, though, right? The Dalton sale does make sense. It makes sense if you don't really know

which side Dalton is on. Bengals fans. If you know for sure, that means there's got to be someone to take it. his place, like Carson Palmer. Maybe Andy Dalton should not be what this is about anymore. Ooh, I like where you're going here. Maybe it's the Palmer scale.

Wow, this is some history being made during the podcast. Maybe it's the Sam Bradford's game. We give Wes an assignment and suddenly he starts searching his soul. Bengals fans that are out there, we feel your pain. This is what Andy Dalton's doing to us. He's making us crazy. Palmer scale has a ring to it. Could be the Palmer scale this year.

What about the Alex Smith scale? Well, that is a great name to talk about it. Is that your next on your 20 to 24? All right, Alex Smith, let's talk. Alex Smith is 22. I docked him about two or three spots just because he's so boring to watch. And if I was running a team, I wouldn't even watch my own team. And a certain NFL media analyst, Elliot Harrison, put him in his top 10 quarterbacks,

which he put up on it that was published on the site. Well, I like my quarterbacks to be able to throw it more than seven yards down, or be willing to throw it more than seven yards down the field. Can I just say, you know, one thing in his defense? I mean, he's playing in Kansas City, and, you know, nobody on the around the NFL podcast gets excited about the Chiefs, really. What if Alex Smith was in a better situation? That's why I did seven Chiefs games.

No, I think he's the biggest problem. He's the most boring quarterback to walk. What if he was playing in Chip Kelly's offense? He would still be boring to watch. First of all, he's a good runner. He maximizes everything he has, which usually you give people credit for in sports. Like, they run a totally different offense than the run. rest of the league, and yet they're pretty effective with it.

So I think he's a good case, though, to be a good game. He's one of the smartest NFL quarterbacks. I think that part of his game's underrated. He just doesn't trust his arm, and there are a lot of quarterbacks who wouldn't take it, or a lot of coaches who wouldn't take him. If we're again going back to, is that the guy, do you think you have a quarterback? I don't think you do. I think you have a bridge guy. Maybe the best bridge guy. Alex Smith. But I don't see him as an answer. Chiefs fans would take this as an insult. Andy Reid certainly would based on the contracts. he's been given Andy, Alex Smith.

But maybe Alex Smith is the guy. Who's at 24, West. Is that where we're at? Cutler. Ooh, he's a little higher than I thought he'd be. He's a couple of spots higher than Dalton. I definitely don't think. That's pretty low, really.

It's just that Dalton is wildly low. Well, Cutler is the same thing with Alex Smith. If I'm running the team, I've got to watch this guy. I've got to hang out with this dude. I'm definitely putting it. I'm putting Cutler definitely below Andy Dalton. Ask the Bears if they think they have their quarterback. Right, exactly.

That hurts me. They picked up his option. They did, but I still don't think it necessarily. They died him to $54 million guaranteed. Hmm. That's a tough one. They regret that. To me, if you have Jay Cutler,

there's a small chance that you can pull a flacko and catch lightning in the bottle in the playoffs just by pure physical talent. I don't believe Andy Dalton can do it. Bears fans would argue the playoffs every year sounds pretty good. How many times has Cutler gotten them there? Two, three? I'm glad Bears fans are now to the.

the point where I was four years ago on Cutler. Cutler's a perfect guy to talk about there. That's a tough one. The Cutler scale? Well, no, I mean, no, I don't know if it would be the Cutler scale. I just mean he's a good guy. He's right around it. I would put him under it.

He's a guy who's, for the first time in his career, I think he's below the Dalton scale. How about we haven't talked about him, and I would assume he's probably ahead of the guy, some of these recent guys we talked about, but Cam Newton. Oh, yeah, way above. I got him in a top ten. Way above. There was a question mark. In an internal email, he was not on the definite list.

That's why he wasn't on the list. That was just for you guys, because I didn't want to assume that you were just going with my opinion. But, yeah, I would definitely put it away. And we agree with Tanna Hill is definitely above Dalton, right? Yes. I have Tana Hill 18th. Okay. All right.

How about Matt Stafford? Yeah, he's above it. I have him 13th. He's frustrating. I wouldn't have him that high. Okay, this is where this discussion gets tricky, though, because, yes, he's above Andy Dalton, but what about is he above Carson Palmer? Oh, yeah.

Not by that much. Last year, I had him, for what it's worth, for 2014 alone, 17th. That was right behind Kaepernick and Alex Smith. That's the type of year that Matthew Stafford had. He did not have a very good 2014, but I think he's had better years before. It's just frustrating because you think he's going to get better one of these years. I noticed you put a lot of stock in the 2014 season alone. No, no, I'm just using that as my rough course.

guide to look ahead, to look at the names. I have NA next to James, Winston, and Marcus Marietta. We'll wait and see. I've got them at least 10 spots higher than Andy Dalton. So without even playing there above them. Well, I mean, how do you think NFL executives feel about this? They wouldn't take three first round picks for Jay. I mean, the Bucks wouldn't take three first round picks, and other teams were offering that much.

I need to see it before I would say it. That's fair. I wouldn't put Mariotta above it. I would put Winston. Oh, come on. You wouldn't, if you were given a choice, to run a franchise, and it was between Andy Dalton and Marcus Marriota, you would be cursed to go eight and eight the rest of your life,

and you would deserve it. T.D. throws his hands on what's going on. I know. When did Greg become this hot house flower? It's more than the Dalton scale. It's driving us all crazy. I don't know what it means. I don't know what it means.

I thought it was an evaluation. How about this? Now, I have this category fringe slash Dalton. Part of the evaluation is projecting quarterbacks into the future. Who would you rather have? How about Derek? car That one is

Hang on Alright Everybody slow down here Fringe slash Dalton Pergatory I had Jay Cutler on this list

but we moved him out we talked about him already Derek Carr Nick Foles and Robert Griffin the third I have those

those are the three closest guide to Andy Dalton on my list and they are on yours as well no I have them you know

far behind Dalton oh okay I have Derek Carr ahead of Dalton and it kind of pained me to do it car was i mean if you go look at some of the stats on the raiders last year

historically inept at moving the football right could say well not that you can't say the same thing but you could look at some pretty nasty blake bordle stats too last year you can and you have him uh well ahead of yeah i saw more out of portals by a lot and i i would put car behind dalton on this but now the whole scale is confused no it's problematic Because if Dalton is 25th, it messes up the whole scale. 27th. If we are in agreeance that he is that far down or even near that area, he's got to be out. We've got to change.

I have more probably 21, 21, some 20. I'm around 20. Yeah, but you've got Marietta below him. And I don't believe for a second you would do that. Nick Foles. I have him one spot below Dalton just because I saw way too much inaccuracy and bad ball players. To me, going back again to the term, is this guy the answer? is he the problem he's not an answer

I'm not ready to say he's absolutely the problem but I know he's not a long-term answer my yeah I put him putting him behind I'll put Marriota head what the heck and RG3 finally RG3 wow and he's the he's even this time last year

Wes I know you were big on a comeback year I was big on a comeback year sure has held it and happened so now there's a there's a real chance that this guy is just shot and he's never going to regain that spark but it's still there in the back of a lot of people's minds. Can he ever get back something?

And it's not just physically anymore. There's something mentally up with him, too, in my mind. He doesn't have the confidence he once had. Well, this is the point where if we had a, you know, big-time producer, T.D. just jumps in right now, and he says, I've got a little surprise. I've got Jay Gruden on the phone for you. He's coached Andy Dalton. He's coached RG3.

He's going to tell you. Or at the very least, Frank Caliando. Well, I have none of those. I didn't have an RG3 hot take, though. I'm sure that will be just as good. I'll tell you this, in week two or week three, whatever week that was where he got injured. Yep. At drive, a couple of plays before he got injured, he actually kind of looked decent.

That's telling that you can only pick out one drive in his entire season. And then you added a bunch of qualifiers. He actually kind of looked decent. That is damning, not even with faint praise. It's just incredibly damning. Go back and watch those first couple of plays. Whatever this is, whatever this is the Dalton scale or whatever it is going forward, right now, to me, there's no way

you can put him on the plus side of this. He's got to earn his way back to that. I've got him one spot ahead of Dalton. So you think he is the answer right now? No, I don't because I think I've already abandoned that definition. Several times. I've got a new definition. See, this is why I was, this is, I'm operating under a different thing.

That basically it's where you're at right then. It's not betting on the rest of your career. Right now, there's no chance RG3 is above them. Well, of course it is. Your job is to look at this like a general manager. Not like some bomb in a podcast studio. Your job is to say, who do I win for my franchise going forward? Let's put it this way.

Who would you rather have? Like, we would have an LG3 and the chance, little chance that he has that he's something close to his rookie year, or would you rather have a Doughton who you know? I would rather have RG3 and a 0.8 chance that he ever comes close to his rookie year than to have Andy Doughton has less of a chance of ever being any better than RG3 after two years of misery?

Yes, I believe it. Well, you're talking about in a vacuum, like you're just starting a franchise. I'm often thinking of, what if I have the Seahawks? Because that's the team where you feel like you don't really need a quarterback that badly. And in that case, it's like I would rather take Dalton. They play on national TV a lot. We're winning playoff games with Dalton. No, you're not.

That's crazy, Tom. Me and the Red Rifle. Here's my. I've got a new definition. Okay. So Andy Dalton, now, to me, isn't the point of whether you would rather have these guys. to me the point is more, do I want Andy Dalton even on my roster? Or do I even...

At $15 million a year, at his salary, do I even want him on my roster? So in most of these situations, I would rather have the other guy on my roster. The Dalton scale is a big, sloppy mess, and I'm happy. Well, I think we just destroyed it. Let's change it to the Palmer or Alex Smith. Right, I think the real question is, do we want Andy Dalton on the Dalton scale? He's going on. This is why it always struck me as odd, is that we had him as the middle guy

when everyone in the room was so against him as being anything close to an answer. No, we always had him in the middle. But I think there are a lot more. You always thought he was a piece of garbage. And then why is he in purgatory when he should clearly be on the other side of the line? Because he was in purgatory and now like he's...

He never changed. He's still the same guy. That's the problem. It's four years now and he's probably gotten a little worse. But that's why you said he was that guy in the first place. You said that he wasn't going to get better. Well, in fact, he's regressed. Spoiler. This is another spoiler for you, TD.

Did you get Calliando on the line, TV? Your podcaster of the day today is Dan Hansis for his doubt of the Dolphin scale over the years has been proven correct. And we're all winners because you don't get to give one out. I just think I was going to get to that. However, one quick producer note, though. I say keep the Dolton's sale. This is part of the show, guys. It's part of the intrigue, not knowing exactly where he is.

No, I think we're starting to figure it out, though. Our listeners can let us know. You know, send us with a hashtag Dalton scale what you guys think about this controversy. Keep it. He's probably regressed that hasn't gotten better, but it's still in the same position where he puts this team in the playoffs and always loses. He's the perfect guy for this game. Also, I think he's going to have a career year in 2015.

All right, now I'm really confused. It's all about surrounding talent. Wes is, I think this is the effect of Wes having no sleep because of his long form coming out later this week. Wes wrote like a 40,000 word long form that is in the middle of an edit process. And he's an emotional powder. Well, there's a lot that went into this. I didn't know if I wanted to bring this up quite yet, but... It had a little bit of a cathartic nature in my Bengals fandom.

Yeah, we put a pin in that because we will save that for Thursday. We've got to talk about that. We're out of time, though. Well, not yet. I already did it. I'll do it really quick. I do it really quick. All right.

Yes, podcasts of the day actually does go to Dan. I love you. It did more than host today. He was trafficked. again. He researched Steve Nash tidbit was fun. The pro football talk tidbit was good. He asked the quintessential question. Are we going to have to pull you

aside in a serious manner and tell you that this isn't going to work as a segment going to find? I mean, you're winning. You're winning. I figured you like this. That's why you should take this as very serious than saying this. I think, I don't know. Oh, that was right. I started to fight it, his shoulders just went down. I like it as a segment.

I think you need to work on your explanations. Why? Just, you know, pick like one thing. Just one thing. Maybe, yeah, maybe it's a titan at the end. Podcast MVP, bang. For this reason. Now you're giving a title. I don't know.

I haven't worked out of time. Because sometimes you're like giving all these reasons and some of them are a little thin sometimes. And I know you and Sessler sometimes are odds. If we, if we're going like 10 shows deep and Sessler doesn't have the MVP, it's just going to lead to him going after you. Oh, that's going to be the running bit. He never wins. Oh, it's like the Teddy Roosevelt in the Washington National League. That's funny.

Prediction pain. All right, I'm back in. All right, that's it. Thank you for listening. If you were able to follow along, congratulations. But we'll be back on Thursday with another show. Greg, you're going on staycation. No, I'm going to Massachusetts to visit my parents with my daughter Ellis.

We're going to go on a plane. So it's going to be the great Chris Wessling and I as well as Colleen Wolfe will rejoin us in the studio. Looking forward to that. So that's Thursday. This is Dan Hansis signing off for the... the great Y2K compliance officer and the boss. And of course, TD, who I love, behind the glass. Until Thursday.