NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - The 2020 Dalton Scale with Dave Dameshek

Episode Date: May 26, 2020

A bunker filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal are joined by Dave Dameshek to go over all the latest news around the NFL and to break down this year's Dalton Scale. Is Andy Dalton still the prime meridian when he's now a backup QB?Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Around the NFL podcast. Invented social distancing. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansus coming to you from a city filled with some heroes in bunkers. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal.

What is up, boys? Hi, Diane. We'll get to the originator of Hey, Diane in a minute in his progeny. But first, I want to introduce one more hero joining us today. He is the host of the Dave Damascic football program. There's a hint for you. He's also the brains behind, and the voice behind good sports on Adam Carolla.com. And, of course, with his buddy Keeney, one half of the great Dave's of Thunder podcast, you know who it is, baby.

Dave Damasek, welcome to the around the NFL podcast. Wow, era-appropriate guitar riff, they're soulful. Am I Martin Rigg or am I Dave Damichick? Doesn't matter. Something from the theme wormhole. in American history. What's happening, what's up, Dave?

Welcome back to the show. Thanks so much. I'm glad to see you guys are still doing this show. Good for you guys. Where's the fourth guy? Well, it's funny you should ask, Dave, because the man,

the myth, the legend, Chris Wessling, predisposed. You know why? Because he's on the way back from the hospital because he's got a kid now. How about that? Lincoln, Wessling.

Anybody want to help me pronounce the middle name? R-O-U-X? Drew. Gru. Like, Wendling-Born, May 22nd. That's Friday. 7.46 PM, 7 pounds, 2 ounces, 20 inches long.

Baby and Mama, Lakeisha, healthy. It's a cause for celebration. You could celebrate now. Oh, we can. I didn't know if there's like a song coming. I just figured that's so much, so much production. value. It's amazing. I already saw him like tweeting back to someone like, I've been sleeping on how, uh, how tough it is on moms and dads all these years.

It's like, okay. I like, I don't know whether I'm so, I was so excited for my, like, for a second was almost jealous, but not, not really, ultimately. Jealous that West. Go through that experience because it's such an exciting, not, not jealous of like having them up, but it's, it's such an exhilarating week, month, whatever, you know, whatever period you want to say it is, you're just on a high, and I'm sure he is right now. Well, I'd say there were... We had 10 kids between us here. Right.

There was a little quad right here. There was a period of time where we were on a, you know, a thread with Lakeisha and Wesleyan, and he was offering some, I would call it inside information. We were getting it before the, you know, social media and the public was getting it. But they went dark for like an eight or nine period stretch where you just knew that, and it was confirmed later, the Lecisha put in the work. here. And I just remember my wife, when we first, Simone, when we had Luke, like, she had like a 30-something hour labor. And I changed my opinion of what women are capable of. And I'm not trying

to be that guy because I think that's a, you know, I just don't know what they're, what they're capable of. But it increased in my mind. And I, like, I will say the second thing, when the baby photos released, a lot of babies, you know, eight, six, you know, 60, 70 minutes out of the womb are not looking too sharp. They've been through something, right? And they just don't, oh, often look like human beings, little Lincoln had one of the better early baby spreads that I've ever seen. You can't say anything other than that. This is legit real. It's a good looking baby right out of the shoot. As a guy who has produced children, human children with multiple women, I can say that it is offensive what Mark Sessler just said to the mother of the little

ones, but controversial hot take right out of the gate. For the first month to, you know, two months, a human baby is quite unattractive. Mamas don't like hearing that, but they look like hairless little rodents. Yeah, they're unattractive. One, two, you're spot on. If the existence of humanity depended on men making the babies, society would shut down soon. And we would be ruled by the apes or some other creatures human men would not go through that we're far too self for threat pain threshold aside we're way too selfish who we're really going to stop boozing and such for 10 months no chance no chance it would be a major issue the idea that you would have to curb all of your worst habits for that extensive amount of time women are the

superior um sex let's be on me maybe once maybe you do it once for the experience but after that's right it's kind of like it's kind of like uh youth is wasted on the young it's like west and lekeeshah muzzle tough to them uh sincerely but having one is pretty breezy rosenthal the the the the real trouble begins once you double up once you go two it becomes 10 times more difficult maybe not the birth process but yes yeah that's true well i'll never forget jameshamek gave me the best advice ever or it was more of a warning when we had our second he basically said, and I think you got this from Bill Simmons, that, you know, when you've got, when it's two parents and one child, and life is tough because you've added one child.

When you have one, it's tougher than your previous life in many ways and joyful in all that other business. But you're playing man coverage, or his own coverage. You got two people on one baby. When you throw that second one in, it's two parents and two kids, you can get exposed real quick. That is my line. I told it to that guy. I'm the one kid is like, I've heard someone say, one kid's not really like having kids.

it's like having a pet but you know only children don't like that yeah check was like um check was our uncle who taught us about what what was the come because i remember getting similar um having similar conversations with dave where you kind of laid out here's what's coming up next so get ready and you i remember you telling me you know the it gets really fun when they start to understand what's going on and you get in that range you know what was it like three to five six where they become actual human beings so that west and lekeeshia that's that all the great stuff to look forward to. And I told West texting with them today, one of my favorite moments is taking the baby home for the first time. All of a sudden, this thing

is now a member of the family in the house, and that's a lot of fun. I'm very happy for both of them. And I know we all are on the same page with that. This is a very exciting time for the podcast. I would also say that that trip on I-10 with a baby that's like a day old in the backseat was, as a non-driver, one of the more excruciating, like, 12 minutes of my life. Just get me off the highway and get him to the house without issues, please. And it's crazy. It's extra special, I would imagine, for Wes and Keisha, because it's Tuesday that we're taping this.

They've been there since Thursday. Right. That's a long time. And because of COVID-19, it was not, Chris was not allowed to leave the hospital the whole time, which is crazy. He's been up there. He hasn't been able to leave. I, I dropped off something on Sunday night, just some, you know, sundries and stuff, you know, some resources for him. The hospital's right nearby here. And it did get me thinking, it's the same hospital. I'm sure they thought about this a lot. It's the same hospital. Chris did everything,

you know, with his cancer treatments and his diagnosis and everything happened. We've all been at that hospital. Like, and what a feeling it must be for them. What a difference. just a few years of spending all that time at that hospital now compared to compared to just a few years ago. Yeah. So what a time. What a time. And now we look forward to today's show.

Well, before you do, can I just say, can I just say when you guys, if you leaned on my counsel previously with these matters, you're sounding bored when you're ready to get remarried and have a second pair of children. I'll be with you shortly. I'm here. I'm here for you. I don't know how you did it, Sheck, how you're doing it, but you're still alive. So that's a good sign.

All right. So Wes will join us on Thursday, by the way, maybe even Lakeisha, who knows, to talk about where he's at in his new journey. Today's show is a good one. I mean, we got Shaq with us. What an exciting time it is. And with Shek here, we figured let's talk about one of the most fun subjects, you know, breaking down the quarterbacks and not just breaking down the quarterbacks.

the world famous Dalton scale. Where are we at in 2020 with the Dalton scale? In fact, Greg Rosenthal, are we post-Dalton scale at this stage? And what does that mean for this exercise for us? Well, we're going to have to find out. I think we've got to talk it out. It feels like it. Dalton's not even a starter, but that's what's called the tease.

A little bit of a tease there in a little industry jargo. Also, we're going to spin the wheel of teams and find out who will be covering on Wednesday for a deep dive, a team deep dive. That's exciting. But before that, Shaq, joining us for the news. The two best quarterbacks of all time, don't try to have fun when the rest of us might be sitting in houses with kids and wives for the next nine months. Stumbled across the great Chris Russo, who came on one of our Super Bowl shows, The Mad Dog,

going absolutely insane for 15 minutes on the Tom Brady-Pate Manning golf match, which, you know, it seems like something that you don't really need to go crazy about, but that's what the mad dog does. Anybody watch that, by the way? I watched the whole thing, which is more golf than I've watched in the last. Wow. I think 17 years combined. Well, you know, I sat and why, no, did I track every single, the arc of every shot?

No, but I mean, I followed it. Best I could. That's the worst take, by the way, I think I've ever heard from Chris. It's pretty bad. I don't even know what he's talking about. I kind of like it. You're not going to win anyone over here with that take. It's like, you know, you raise $20 million people want to watch.

You don't have to watch. You watched it. You don't even like golf. Well, I would have not have watched it if it were Phil Mickelson and three fill in the blank golf people. But I just wanted to see the Brady-Payton thing. And if it would be on a scale of 1 to 10, very annoying, or, enjoyable and it was pretty enjoyable. Give us a take.

I got to tell you, Chris Rousseau, expressing an opinion that very few other people had really made me think. That's someone who's mastered his craft. Now, while I'm not with Chris Rousseau on this one, I think what it proves, I think people are swooning a little too hard over the specifics of the event, going into it. it. I said, this is going to put up a huge rating, just like Last Dance did. And what it should do is let Major League Baseball know, they better figure something out. And I am all in favor of player safety. I am always going to side player over ownership and all those provisos out there.

But baseball better come back because if basketball and or hockey is out there playing its playoffs. Baseball will very quickly slide deep into the recesses of sports fans. Deeper into the recess. That's exactly right. I think people forget that Cal Ripkin kind of saved baseball after the strike, you know, 25 years ago. I don't know that baseball would have bounced back. Where it is now is kind of, and the Yankees obviously reasserting themselves as the dominant force had a big hand in it too. But, man, baseball better figure this thing out because if golf with Peyton Manning and Boobie Phil Mickelson is enough to capture the imagination of sports fans, imagine what hockey and basketball are going to do when they come back.

People will forget about baseball right quick. I had this very conversation with somebody in the downtown Culver City area when I went for a walk with my kids this weekend. Masks involved. That what you're hearing about baseball right now is that there's a lot of internal squads. wobbling between the ownership and the players union about how this is going to work financially. And yes, if that season got wiped out because they couldn't come to a financial agreement, I don't think it recovers nationally because it would be such a black guy. Hopefully they're smarter than that.

And everything I hear is that this is a big week in terms of them figuring out whether this is going to happen or not. And along those same lines, there seems to be more and more optimism about football being played this year. And we'll start right here with Governor Phil Murphy in New Jersey. He announced that all professional sports teams in the state can begin training camps. Forty-eight hours earlier, Andrew Cuomo, the governor of New York, gave the go-ahead for sports to return in New York. So, of course, it's bills, jets, giants, all cleared once all the proper health measures established at their facilities. And you're going to, I would imagine what we're going to start

hearing here, Greg, is this, this announcement popping up across the country, barring some type of national or local setback. And this, again, getting these buildings open is the first big step. And we're starting to sense a little bit of positive momentum here. Yeah, I think the fact that it was New Jersey and New York making these statements, which don't necessarily mean a lot, you know, because all the teams have to satisfy all sorts of health rules. But just the fact that the two states that have been hit the hardest are saying this right

now in May, to me is noteworthy. And it gets you wondering, like, are, is the NFL going to? to be back for many camps or any time before the OTAs could possibly be done. They aren't saying anything yet. And it's still confusing because places like Washington have totally different rules and they don't want any team to have an advantage. So I think that part of the offseason still is very much in the air. But it feels like if New Jersey and New York, if things don't change, if they're already opening, I mean, that is a great sign for training. I mean, I can see it on this very show that everyone's ready to, they got a real bounce in their step. You

Two of you have completely shaved your beards. We made an agreement check that we would not do that until we met again. And look what happened here. I'm not surprised that Greg jumps ship without telling anyone right before a network show. But, Dan, I'm appalled that you show up today. I'm appalled that you show up today with no notice in a cleanly shaven face. I'm ready to walk off the set. My set.

I get it. I get it. And I have to say something, Mark. I apologize. I apologize. But I want to say my side of it, which is, this quarantine's been tricky for the old zeuser and i try to put up a brave face and it's business as usual on the pod but in my quiet moments in my lockdown home with the children and

the wife and and trying to manage life day to day i have some ups and downs i get the blues sometimes and i i kind of thought just thinking about some stuff i maybe getting into some unhealthy habits and just feeling a little bit down i needed a quarantine reboot and i thought that shaving the beard was the first step in that, even symbolically of, okay, Dan, it's time to get going on the right direction, get back to who you are and get refocused because maybe I was falling into bad habits. So that's why it happened. And I apologize, I should have cleared it with you first, but that's the reasoning why and I'm being 100%. Well, I don't, no, I don't need you to clear it. I mean, you put me into a position where I have no counterpoint

to what you've just said. And I'm very happy for you. And, you know, it's been an absolute breeze over here, beard or no beard. It's just been absolutely a joy ride. I have. I Haywrights through an autumn field, please. What I heard was a bunch of white noise from hands in there, or green noise, gang green noise. That's stinking, thinking. That's why he lacks the commitment to excellence. Here, that was my issue.

I had a sub-daltin-scale beard. I was totally sick of it. After going to the Super Bowl and seeing every single sports writer there that had a beard, it made me sort of hate myself even more than I usually do and hate beards. And then three weeks later, and so I did, I shaved it right after the season. Then three weeks later, you know, it's this group thing. Okay, I'm not going to say now. But I did not want to do it.

And, you look, my, it's my, my, my, my, um, you look, my significant other, she, she hates it. She doesn't, she doesn't want to be near me in general. And that's, that's not helping. I don't, I don't like it. So, uh, let's get ready. Not a surprise that Greg was first off the train. And I will say I would not have done it if Greg hadn't done it already, essentially breaking the link to start. Classic, classic, uh, blame shift.

there. Yeah, well, I agree with you, uh, Rosenthal. That is the worst beard, um, since Sidney Cros. Right. There's no point in there. Like, what's the point? It, it, I'm running and I'm running with it. It's just like who, who wants? Hansus, though, I, if I may, I mean, one size doesn't fit all. It's like Drew Carey. Just because weight loss looks good on a lot of people doesn't mean it took for him. He looked weird when he lost all that weight. A bit odd, yeah. Yeah, Hansus, I think for you, I'd like to see you go Fu Manchu. You know, I think that would be a strong look with your mane of hair. You know, I think that would, like name it, circa 73? That's right. You get me. You get me. You almost had that going on a little bit, but

no, you know, it's gone now. Well, I wish you luck. Godspeed to the two of you that cut bait on this. What is this? You can't grow, it. It was mostly an excuse because Dan wanted to grow a beard, you know, and like you didn't want to do it on his own. That's not how I viewed it. That's not how I viewed it either. It really wasn't. It is kind of a statement. We are brothers and we, you know, we, it's until it's inconvenient, then it's just. We are brothers and every other person in the pandemic.

Solidarity with Sam Darnold because I suspect he can't grow a beard or even a single facial whisker. He's like 17. He's only 22. Still somehow. Speaking of the Jets and Sam Donald, he has a new backup quarterback. It is Joe Flacco, the veteran, Flucco, Flacco, Super Bowl. MVP, 35 years old, coming off a pretty woeful one-year run in Denver, but the Jets had to upgrade

off David Fales, who is currently the backup quarterback. They drafted a fourth round rookie James Morgan in April, so you add Flacco to the room, and it does feel like a little bit of a lot more security, to be honest. Now, Flacco's health situation, you have to monitor that. Is he going to be ready coming off back surgery? could defeat the purpose if he's not ready by week one. But Flacko's not even close to who he was, Sheck, five, seven years ago, but he's an adult in the room, something that Jets didn't have when Donald went down last year.

Yeah, I mean, coming from black and gold quarters, a lot of people floating some exotic names like famous James and Cam Newton to serve as Rathlisberger's backup in 2020. I thought here on planet Earth a much more reasonable possibility, was as much as it might cause the AFC Northwanks to heads to explode. I thought Flacco as a backup made some sense. But like you say, I think it's neither here nor there because of the health issue. We don't know that Flacco is going to be ready to roll.

It seems like he's the so-called grown-up in the room for the callow talented youngsters that are going to be actually taking snaps come September, if anyone's taking snaps. Well, they had the worst backup situation in the league or one of them. And I'm Rosendahl, you sure? I just mentioned black and gold. Right. I would take, I would take Mason Rudolph over, over who is, who is number three right now in New York behind the? David fails.

David fails. Yeah, I'll take, I'll take gold. I'll take Rudolph. It does make you think, too, okay, they didn't want, they wouldn't want to go after Cam Newton or whatever. But it makes sense for Sam Darnel. It's like, you bring Josh McCown there for one year. Okay, it's like that, it's helpful to have someone there. And then last year, it's like, you need someone other than Adam Gase, who's been through it.

It feels like you need an adult in the room because their coach sometimes isn't that guy. Like, you need a quarterback who's been through it. In other Jets news, Jamal Adams is once again at odds with the team over his contract status. He has two years left on his rookie deal, but he wants to get paid. He wants to get paid like one of the best safeties in the league. and the Jets are not willing to do it. And every report you're hearing from the plugged-in beat reporters from Ian Rappaport is that the Jets aren't going to shop Jamal Adams.

Adams is probably not going to get paid either, though, because of a number of factors, including what COVID-19 is doing financially to the league and what it could mean for the salary cap next year, given the fact that the Jets have three and perhaps four years of control, it behooves them to sit tight here. but if Jamal Adams continues to be angry about this, he may force their hands. So we'll see how it plays out.

Mark, your thoughts on this. Well, I just, Jamal Adams, the ratio of how talented he is to how much he's annoying me with his name coming up in the news every 15 to 20 minutes because he's disgruntled about his paycheck. I mean, it's on Joe Douglas, who I really think is a potentially cut down the road could be like a top 10 GM to hold.

Hold is ground. I'm tired of these bad teams losing power struggles with star players and suddenly star player is in a Dallas Cowboys helmet on Sunday night football. It's like I'm exhausted with it. Jamal Adams is the centerpiece of the Jets defense. You got to pay him at some point. I wouldn't wiggle an inch here. I would not allow Jamal Adams any leverage. He doesn't really have any leverage any leverage right now. I liked the, you know, a couple of years ago, shutdown corner was the splashy position to talk about in an offseason or a tight end or otherwise.

This year it is the safety. Those are the guys in the news for good, bad, or ugly Earl Thomas. Shout out to you. But, yeah, in an overarching sense, I agree with you about Joe Douglas. Just imagine, though, I suspect Joe Douglas would have loved nothing more than to blow out Adam Gase and bring in somebody like, Eric B. Enemy. And think about how excited Jets fans. Well, we can ask one here, how excited they would be if Eric B. Enemy had taken the reins. They just couldn't do it because purging yet

another coach given the last decade or so would have looked shoddy even by Jets standards. But yeah, you know, Jamal Adams figure it out because if this team has a chance to go somewhere. And I suspect that Adam Gase is the reason that some of those guys are kind of not terribly enthused about still wearing that that new look green hat. Yeah. And I read this and it came up in, you know,

all the articles. The Jets ranked 10th in defense DVOA last year. Greg Williams, despite being an unpopular figure, really does tend to get the best out of guys. And Adams is such a great fit. And he knows how to use them. So this marriage needs to stay intact.

I just hope, I know nobody wants to ever take the side of management in the sports world, either on Twitter or the sports writers, it seems. But it comes off as a little bit, I'm going to drop the word here, like the warden from Shawshank, obtuse of Jamal Adams to be really going nuts right now, considering all the factors and the lack of leverage he has. But I love the guy. This is it, though. This is the leverage.

This is the time. What is the leverage, ultimately, though? I mean, this is the time to exert it. I guess to say, I'll hold out a training camp or whatever, because he's stuck looking And part of it is the fifth year option. He's stuck looking that he's under control for two years, maybe three, if you count the franchise tag, that he's a long way away from getting that big money. And so the offseason is the time to do it because they're not happy with it. And it is annoying that you send out, you know, it's so transparent that, okay, 10 teams would be interested in him.

You know, his agent is sending out trying to get any trade interest. But, you know, he is underpaid. Like this is, it's just like how it goes. but that's also the that's what the union agreed to when they uh the ownership and the union did the rookie pay scale that's what it is and i'll just say this is perhaps far too simplistic uh but patrick mohomes drafted the same year as jamaal adams he hasn't gotten his new deal yet if pat mahomes isn't getting his new deal yet right mshawn watson's not getting his new deal yet you don't hear them honking about it not a keel adams you know you're always going to have a jamal

adams in the NFL it's in it's there's nothing else happening but it's like i feel like nine out of ten times when we hear from this guy. It's money contract. It's agent whispers. It's just exhausting. I just want to have a button where I can just remove Jamal Adams from all life until he actually is playing football because he's a delight on that front. I agree with all that. But imagine also, it's a little bit like those stretched over a full year, but it's a little bit analogous to like 15 years ago. Remember when Baron Davis signed with the Clippers on the assumption that because Elton Brand said, let's go to L.A. and read the fine pro basketball in Los Angeles.

Let's go. We'll be the cornerstones of the resurgence of the clippers. And then Baron Davis signs and then Elton Brand signs with the Sixers. Like, Levy and Bell must be like, you, do you never stopped with the social media about how I need to come here. And I'm going to be the finishing piece. Now you want out, Jamal Adams? Not very presidential. No.

Well, but finally in the news, Carlos. Carlos Hyde has a job. The running back signed with the Seattle Seahawks. It's a one-year deal. He's added to a backfield that has Chris Carson and Rashad Penny, both coming off injuries. Devante Freeman was apparently an option as well, Mark, initially. But the Seahawks go with Hyde, who's had a nice season with the Texans

and gives them some depth and another solid option, and especially if the injury issues, you know, shorten out that depth chart again. Yeah, I thought the bigger piece of news was Mike Silver reporting that Devante Freeman is perfectly content to sit out for the entire year if he doesn't get the kind of money he wants. And I don't imagine he's going to get the kind of money he wants. Carlos Hyde, I assume he makes the roster because these guys are banged up. I mean, it's basically, it feels like a patch until their top backs get healthy. Well, yeah, Chris Carson coming off a hip surgery, Penny's coming off a torn ACL.

I did that, the projected starter series, and the Cioxx are one of those things that you look at, you look at their roster, and it's got so many problems other than Russell Wilson. They just count on, and I think the backfield could have been one of them, so Hyde is a good pickup to add to those two injured guys, but it's like the offensive line is terrible. They have two great receivers, but that's it.

Then a total, nothing after that. and all sorts of, you know, holes on their defensive line and, okay, so, you know, they're asking Russell Wilson to be a hero here. I don't think Carlos Hyde's going to change anything. I may be the world's only out, well, at least outside of Columbus, Ohio, the only Carlos Hyde Stan. And somebody got after me, by the way, on social media. Am I too old to use the word Stan?

Yeah, because I'm not slowly. Am I? It didn't feel right, Dave. No, I think you're, I don't, I think Dan and I are on the bubble and you're over it. And I think we're over it, too, even, I think. Fair. I, because, you know what? To side with you, it doesn't feel right.

And I, and part of that is because I'm not exactly sure what it means, but I think I get the essence of it. What do you mean? You're not sure what it means. I think I get it. It's like I'm fully supportive, right? You're like a huge fan. You're a huge fan.

No, it means like you're putting the cape on, you know, you're caping for him. Isn't that another way to say? Yeah, you're writing letters to M&M, just like Steve. Dan did way back when in 2001. That's the origin story. That's right. That is absolutely right. I like Carlos Hyde very much and was happy to see him finally fulfill his, what I perceive to be his potential with the Houston Texans. Is he the difference though? I'm with you, Rosenthal. And you say, they're expecting him. He already did it for him. That last year.

But that gets them to the final eight. It doesn't get him. I agree. I think no one has, you know, I always say, to the chagrin of many smart football people. I say QB wins do matter when they only hand out the one Lombardi at the end of every year. It does matter if you succeed in the postseason. But yes, I think Russell Wilson assumes the same position as John Elway once had, which is that their greatest deeds are not in winning Lombardis. Rather, it's carrying these rosters that have no business being in the mix this deep in the January. I mean, when Elway was doing that with those butt with Sammy Winder and Vance Johnson sorts back in the mid-80s,

that's akin to what Russell Wilson has been doing these last couple of years. Yeah, they never had a run game. Their defense had some stars, but they were far from dominant, and it was Elway. And Russell Wilson done his three or four years in a row, it feels like. Hold that thought on Russell Wilson. That's what's happening in the news. All right, gentlemen, it is time now. to get into the 2020 Dalton scale conversation

and what it means to be a quarterback in 2020, where you fit on the list when it comes to who's great, who's bad, who's good enough. And if you've never heard us talk about the Dalton scale, and what does the Dalton scale mean? And why does Andy Dalton such a prominent figure in this conversation? And what does that mean going forward with Andy Dalton, maybe holding a clipboard for 16 weeks.

Well, let me throw it to you, Chris Wessling, from a prior podcast. What is the Dalton scale? Wow. Andy Dalton is the prime meridian of NFL quarterbacks. He represents quarterback purgatory. If you are ranked below Andy Dalton, your franchise needs a quarterback. If you're ranked above Andy Dalton, you're in ship shape, everything's figured out. You're good to go.

There you go. So what does it mean when Andy Dalton is no longer a starter? And that's where we're going to start this conversation right now. Is there a replacement for Andy Dalton or Dave Damasek? And we were texting about this earlier. Has the very setup of the quarterback position shifted enough now where that conversation doesn't make as much sense anymore? Sheck, your thoughts? Way too nuanced for me to figure out the word.

sequence to explain it in short order. But, you know, about five, six years ago, we all talked about the fact that it's weird in a world of seven billion people that we can't find 32, nay, 20 human beings to successfully play quarterback in the NFL. One of your most successful bits, or at least most used bits, at least. It was an analysis. Life's not a bit, friend. That's spot on.

And the football gods heard me, as did the personnel guys and the high school and college systems that develop quarterbacks. They all combine. I mean, is that a coincidence? Probably. Maybe not. Either way. You know, conspiracy theories are all the rage. Now, either way, however we got here, we have achieved pretty close to, if not spot on, QB saturation.

And I'll throw this one out here. here, maybe that guy who you're talking about above and below is the guy who has no job right now. His name is Cam Newton. Cam Newton is interesting because how many guys can you rightly say go through the list of presumed starters for 2020? How many of those guys would you say for one season? And of course, I'm being a little glass half full about number one's medicals checking out and everything. But how many of those guys would you say are definitely better than Cam Newton right now. Go through that list. I actually was doing it and I think there's maybe, it's roughly about half the league that I would say, yeah, I'll roll with that guy

over Cam Newton if it's my team and I get to anoint the starting quarterback. I think there are decent options in the starting group. Cam makes sense. I do think the Dalton line still makes sense because ultimately difference makers still matter at quarterback. So if you're around average, that's going to be worse than having a Russell Wilson. And I think there's a pretty big middle class. But the names that kind of stand out, and maybe it's more than 15, I don't think we're at saturation. To me, it's more like 18, 19, 20. And it's it's Derek Carr. It's Gough maybe, who I'd put just above. It's Tannahill could be in that mix. Those are the three that stand out to me. Hold that thought, Greg, because we all as part of this put together our list of quarterbacks.

We kept out the rookies, but included guys like Andy Dalton, like James Winston, that have had extended starting experience or are currently headed toward a backup role. My list was 34 guys. I'm sure you guys are in the same range. And Derek Carr is a natural guy to talk about in this conversation. So I'm just curious, guys, where you had Carr and then tell me the two guys on either side of him, starting with you, Sessler. Well, I always find that every time that I bring,

I'm lower on Derek Carr and always have been than a lot of people on Twitter seem to be. And whenever you negatively discuss Derek Carr, you get all these people that are hitting you with these metrics about how Derek Carr performs in certain spaces. I kind of just look at quarterbacks as the overall experience. And he just doesn't do it for me. Derek Carr, I had down at 25.

25. And I had him above. Nick Fools, who I think when he, he's healthy and in the right situation is a solid quarterback. I don't trust him at all to stay healthy as a starter at all. And I can't believe the money he gets over and over. And I had Teddy Bridgewater below that. And I have Carr.

And again, I'm looking at the whole experience. I have him below Ryan Fitzpatrick and Gardner Minchew. And some of these young guys maybe are worse than Cam Newton. But from a team building angle, you don't just give up on someone like Daniel Jones because Cam Newton is available. That's the problem with some of these situations. But that's the thing of like, who would I rather have or the Dalton scale? And to me, Carr is kind of perfectly in the middle of the starters because he rises and falls, I think, based on what's around him.

And maybe he will get a lot better. And he does have some talent. But to me, I'm going to take the guess that this is about who he is, that he's going to be the product of the people around him. Agreed. And I think he's better at this point than some of those young players. Like, I think he'd be better. I'd rather have him than Gardner Minchu right now or Nick Fulz, certainly. And so I had him around 19.

And it was those names right around Tanna Hill and Gough kind of in a sandwich where any one of them could be the Tana scale. I have them at 21. And I think that going off what you were saying, Greg, which I agree with that it feels like that's right around the number of the drop off, 20, 21, 22, where you begin to have an issue. And to me, he's right at that point where I start to get worried. So I have Dalton ahead of car, though, right on my list. At 19, I Panahill at 20. I have car at 21. And then I have Josh Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, Fitzmagic

Beneath right now. Right now is where I, so I guess I'm a little bigger fan of car. So you were saying you would rather have Derek Carr than Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield? I'm saying right now in terms of what he brings, what we know for his ceiling, what he can do if surrounded by the right guy. he's more of a known entity than those guys at that point, at this point to me, which is why I have him hire, even though I obviously as a Jets fan, I'm betting on Darnold's upside, but I simply haven't seen enough yet.

And Mayfield is a guy that had such a bad year last year that now he's shaking me a little bit, but I also could see him being obviously better. But right now, Carr is a safer bet to me. It's quarterback in a vacuum because I'm thinking about we don't know the ceilings of some of these people. And I feel like I kind of know Derek Carr's ceiling. I mean, I don't know where you're on with this one check. I feel like that I basically slot them where you guys do. I'm sorry, Hansus, tried as I did to rank them one through 32-ish.

I just couldn't assert numbers specifically. I had to go tears at some point. How did you do it? Okay, that's good. Why did it tiers? What's interesting, too, and we'll get to that, is that there is a brand new clear-cut top three that does not include any of the usuals that would have been there five years or so ago. Those guys now all kind of gather in a second tier.

But yeah, Derek Carr, and I have him right around the names you guys were throwing out there. I would put Jimmy G. in there, Teddy B in there. Jared Goff is a fascinating one going into 2020 as far as I'm concerned. And, you know, I guess a tick above that is Kirk Cuff. is Kirk Cousins, Carson Wentz. I am much hipper on Josh Allen than most of the world is. Oh, yeah. So you have Josh Allen among the second,

you have Josh Allen way above car and you haven't even above every G and stuff. Right. If people, well, if people, listen, if you're going to call me out on saying, like, what's Josh Allen done? I'm assuming, you know, that he is not close to his ceiling yet, whereas as Sessler says, other guys, we've seen them. Right. I have Baker in the top.

or 12. Baker to me was way above the line because I've seen it with him already. I'm not getting them that much for the second year. Maybe the guy, maybe the middle guy is now for Andy Dalton is Ryan Tannehill and not just because anybody below that you can call untanable in terms of winning a Super Bowl. But I got into a social media debate with many Titans fans who knew that there were so many Tennessee Titans fans out there. There are more than you think. they got very it's all it's always the new voreish it's all that when people do these debates about which fan bases are the most annoying and everything it's people who just found a little bit of loot and these titans fans the bills yeah they think right they think well but these titans fans seem

confused by what what was actually achieved in this most recent playoffs you didn't at least joe flacco left the ravens in a spot where they had to resign him they had no choice because as much as you knew And as much as no doubt Ozzie Newsomondown knew, like, all right, Joe Flacco is not on par with all these other guys that make it to the Super Bowls with a fair amount of regularity. But he's now, especially after we let Dillfer go in favor of Elvis Gurb, we have to as a franchise, bring Flacco back. The Ryan Tannenhill thing, I get why you have to sign him, but I advocated it over the weekend that what they should do, if they really want to put themselves in line for a Lombardy in 2020 is sign Cam Newton. for a little competition there. And people went crazy. You think Cam Newton is as good as Ryan Tannehill?

Yes, I do. Yes, I do. I think he's quite a bit superior to Ryan Tannhill. People sending me QB ratings of Ryan Tannahill. You never watched him. Never mind the fact that I said last August. If they make the switch soon enough in the season, they will go to the playoffs on the right arm of Ryan Tannihill

and Derek Henry. And people went crazy. But that is a one-off. Joe Flacco, Jimmy G, these guys that get you deep, if not to the Super Bowl, Jared Gough, you can thread the needle if everything goes just right, but still not good enough to be a perennial contender. Let me throw another name out there, by the way. Go ahead, Greg.

No, no, go for it. Go for it. I wanted to throw out, again, because I think this is important for branding purposes, if we are post-Dalton scale. What about the River's Edge? Philip Rivers, joining the cults, obviously coming off a disappointing year where he was a turnover machine,

but still, I think a lot of people think, including myself, Matt Money-Smith, who watched him very closely, thinks very highly of Rivers' chances, Indianapolis. Where does he fall for you guys? I have him personally at 15 on my list, which puts you comfortably in that,

second tier where you're still the answer, but also I imagine he could be lower for some people. Anybody had him lower than 15 and closer to that kind of 20 range? I had him right where you did. I love the name Rivers Edge. To me, he doesn't feel like a natural one, kind of like Tannahill doesn't either, right, just right now, because Tanahill's coming off such a small sample size where he was one of the best

quarterbacks in the league. I think that you just have to like accept that. I know it was a strange situation, but especially in the regular season. He was a top five quarterback. I mean, there's no doubt in my mind for that stretch of play. And it was just like unlike anything we've ever seen from him. So you just got to see it again.

And it was like seven or eight games with a new team. Who knows? He doesn't quite work. Like, I want a guy in the middle to be more like Alex Smith. Maybe Jared Goff, where you kind of know what he is. He's the same every season. Whereas Philip Rivers, you know, I'm out here just hoping it's all going to click for him. And he's going to be amazing.

And he could be a top seven or eight. guy but if you told me that uh that's all just wishful thinking and he ends up bombing like i would believe that too like he's going to be up or down i'm close to you then i had him at 14 i here here's why outside of an incredible um catchy slogan there i'm not sure it works because to me it's great quarterback just simply at the end of his rope to some degree where i i took for me the reason the dalton scale clicks in in everyone's mind is because Andy dalton from beginning to end had a very ceiling. And you're either okay with that or you're not. Philip Rivers could go produce a 35 touchdown campaign. I wouldn't be surprised. He could also throw 30 interceptions, but it's because

we're getting Dalton or Rivers at the very end of the career here. It's funny, though, we're throwing out Jimmy G as a possibility. Are we already losing some hope of, like, him as a guy who's going to be way better than he has been? You know what I mean? Like he, he was about as, Everyone was about as excited, including me, about Jimmy G, three years ago as anyone. And now we're thinking he's like the Dalton scale guy. I hated that they hid him in the playoffs. And then when he had the chance to win the game, the big game, he couldn't do it. I'm not digging him forever on it.

But it did plant the seed of doubt a little bit with me that he is the guy, just because Kyle Shanahan didn't seem comfortable with him being the guy as the season went down the stretch last year. So it has led to a change in thinking a little bit. I'll throw out this little analogy, though, where Jimmy G and Ryan Tannenhill and those guys are, Jared Gough, are concerned. It's a little bit like when Matt Linerd was out there and people were saying, why doesn't any, you know, where he should go, why doesn't Pete Carroll go get him? The fact that Pete Carroll, his college coach, didn't get him,

should have been, and probably was, a red flag to the rest of pro football. Well, if his college coach doesn't believe in him, If the offensive coaches for the Niners saw fit to hide Jimmy G, well, then there's probably a decent reason why they were doing that. Same goes for Ryan Tanyl can have whatever pass a rating he wanted, and I believed in his talent and still do. But it's a little bit of a red flag that the Titans coaching staff was like, yeah, let's not put the game on him.

I mean, when they're winning comfortably against good teams, and he played well in the AFC champions. So I don't buy that at all. they were winning like he was doing what they needed to do but it's all predicated with with a certain class of qb and i'm not denigrating them i guess i'm just comparing them to hall of fame level quarterbacks these guys that we're talking about it's it's not a coincidence that they're pretty much if i'm looking at it right are all their success is based around play action and it's a funny thing like jimmy g specifically and jared goff is another one in the same division both

struggle. This is just anecdotal nonsense to what my eyes pick up watching these guys is that when they, that you need to play action for them to succeed at this level. However, when they turn their back to the defense and then they pick their head back up and have to release the ball, they're not quick enough or talented enough to read those defenses and they throw a lot of interceptable passes. Jimmy G. specifically, Kyle Shanahan absolutely positively knows that he has to deal with Jimmy G throwing two or three pickable balls over 60 minutes and he has to work his way

around that. That's clear and was clear through January and into the Super Bowl. And it's why Jared Gough, Jared Gough, Jared Goss. That's what Flores and Belichick figured out and that's why I suspect with all the changes and injuries and other excuses you might make,

what the template that was provided by those guys in the Super Bowl was, oh yeah, just don't just don't suck up when drop that safety late, when Jared Goff turns, puts his head back up, he won't know what to do. And we saw that all through that Super Bowl. That's why the Patriots only allowed three points to the mighty L.A. Ram's offense. All right.

Now I'm going to put Dave on his heels, but Dave, you're not allowed to talk initially on this one because I want to hear from the other guys. Because I know you have thoughts on this guy. Wither Ben Rothelsberger. Don't you do it? I think it's a fair question. Is he above the Dalton scale? right now. I mean, Dave's tweeting about that. You can't talk, Dave. Not yet. He'd rather have Ben Rathesberger than LeVar Jackson. So we know Dave is off his rocker when it comes to Ben.

I still put him above it. But he wasn't much better than average the last full season he played. And he's a 38-year-old with questionable workout habits over his career coming off an elbow surgery. So I don't know. Like, there's not a great history of guys coming off elbow surgery at 38 and suddenly slang in it. I have been at number 12. And I, it's maybe it's, it's almost 20 years of watching him take my Sundays, which start with the nice sun rising in the sky and then shooting like a poison-laced arrow right through my face. It's happened so many times with Big Ben that I don't, I don't, I don't buy this idea that like he's washed up unless it's injury related or his body's breaking down but if he's healthy he can be a top 10 quarterback in my book yeah i had him 14 or 50

that yeah yeah i had him right next we all agree if he's healthy he's going to be healthy is he ever going to be healthy again i have him as 12 as well he says he's in great shape right now i mean unless he's totally fibbing a white lie wow we've never known that or not the turger to stretch the truth well i'm not i'm not saying he did or i didn't they've stayed state your case why Ben Rothsberger is actually better than ever now. Yeah, I don't care for his fitness. As somebody who is running at optimal physical peak, I look down my nose at number seven.

Listen, for, I mean, maybe we're not getting paid. I'm not getting paid $30 million to be a pro athlete. Maybe we'll send number seven up to TB12, and they'll fix them all up with some sage burning over his, his ailing elbow. I mean, the bottom line is with Rathesberger is I, this has been, I thought you couldn't get any weirder on a national football analyst thing than the reaction to Antonio Brown was like, you have no special insight into what's going on there.

And yet you know enough to weigh in on what Ben Rathusberger is doing in the line. I was just a bunch of pap a year ago. And here we are, once again, with black and gold related matters, people project. I don't know. What's his elbow like? I don't know. And you know who else doesn't know? Anybody else?

Nobody else has any idea what's gone. Yeah, I do have faith, though. I grew up. I love Billy Sims. He ruined his knee early in his career, what would have been a Hall of Fame all time running back career. And they couldn't fix it. Adrian Peterson conversely,

25, 30 years later. Oh, he had a knee injury. We fixed that thing right up. He's back out there, ready to roll. same goes for ben rothusberger i'm going to bet i'm going to bet on 21st century medicine over lamar jackson's ability to respond to your uh your bile your snark rosenthal i i'm going to bet on i know that i am in the vast minority on this one but i do i i am suspicious that first of all i'll go back to to warren sap what he said for

forever ago. Defensive coordinators in pro football adapt very quickly. They have now, just like I mentioned, what Floris Belichick cooked up to slow down Jared Goff, same goes this offseason. Everybody saw what the Titans did. Now, Jeffrey Simmons. That's what we heard last off season about the Chargers. I mean, they could have stopped them at some point during the regular season.

You don't think they were trying? No, they made, you know, that they made a wholesale commitment to their credit the Ravens did around Lamar Jackson's skill set. Now the next challenge is to respond to the adjustments that the defenses of the NFL are going to make to Lamar Jackson. I loved it. And by the way, I said all through last offseason and into September that Lamar Jackson in 2019, that offense was going to thrive and dominate the NFL. And so it did.

Now, though, come the adjustments. And now can Lamar Jackson? I love that Big Eight style wishbone attack, but it has its limitations. Namely, it's always weird when people say, well, this offense doesn't want to get behind. It has a hard time. Well, that's a problem, isn't it, that your offense isn't built to come from behind? You assume you're always going to play with the leave? Weird, especially against high-end teams come January.

I worry about that. And the other thing I do legitimately worry about is, man, he looks like he, Lamar Jackson looks like he's 6 and 128 pounds. I don't think that leaves him well-suited for long-term success. I know that the weirdest thing is for these high-end physical. I don't love his. I don't like his build in the NFL. He's going to get smacked. And now it comes down to the weird, incalculable thing.

They like big fatties as quarterback. That's right. That's got him so used to it. Why are you projecting whether Lamar Jackson can stay healthy in the NFL when we've had almost two seasons of evidence that he can? And he's 6-2-12. I know. I was being extreme.

But the, I guess the weird thing is that for the, the superhuman athlete, even amidst other superhumans, when you stand out with that kind of speed, you can run away from NFL defenders, it's striking stuff. And we've seen Michael Vick do it and RG3 do it

and Colin Kaepernick do it. And now it comes down to like Colin Kaepernick never got lit up. Michael Vick and RG3 just couldn't figure out. The difference is he's just way better at what he does than any of those players ever were already. And the Ravens will adjust. They're not going to roll out the same offense. They know everything you're saying.

Remember, this is the post-Dalton scale conversation. Lamar Jackson is not part of this conversation, ultimately, right? We're all in agreement that he's in that top tier or in the number top three right now. I think Lamar Jackson is always on host crime right now. I don't, with you, you guys all, listen, then count me in the minority. And for whatever people, oh, yeah, you're a Ravens hate or whatever nonsense. I don't mean, it's crazy to say Lamar Jackson might not be one of the top five quarterbacks this year. I mean, that's not, it certainly happens like that.

But, but Roth, you know, Dan's right. It's way far away from the Dalton scale. Who is there any way, Mark? I put Robert murder ahead of Lamar Jackson for, if I get to choose my starting quarterback. I will take seven over eight and you can all laugh at me and we'll see how things turn. No, that's your- Stick a pin in this until next off season and see how that take looks. Mark, give us one more name before we move on here. Well, if I were listening to this, knowing you, Dan and knowing what I'm into, I want to know where you had Baker and Sam.

I just, I can't get out of here without knowing that I had, and this was a, as Dave said, a very unscientific. lists that I whipped together amidst trying to teach geometry shapes to an eight-year-old. But I have Baker at 14, and I have Sam, and I think he could rise off of this at 20. But I have, I promise, I look at this list differently than you guys. I am thinking, like, I believe in these guys. There's no way they'd ever be below a Dalton line to me. The story is not told on either one of these players yet. I have almost the exact same rankings as you.

Baker's a little higher and Darnold's a little lower, but about the same. I have them both just below Derek Carr. So I'm the, which is essentially for me, juries out on both. Didn't you say that you were starting a fan club on our, around the NFL broadcast TV show last Friday? You were one of the 13 people that still believed in Baker Mayfield and you just buried them. Well, that you're talking about matters of their heart versus me now being just cold blood,

blooded and clinical. And I think that Baker Mayfield, based off two years, is a mystery figure to me. And I want him to be successful for Mark's sake, but also I can't ignore it. And it wasn't just for me the step back in play last year. It was the lack of maturity and the feeling that, ooh, I hope this guy's not a knucklehead. And that is on my radar with Baker about whether or not he really has the head on his shoulders to be a true franchise quarterback star. and I'm not saying that I don't believe in him. And like I said, I want him to do well.

But there is a seed of doubt that was planted based off last year. I don't see how it can't be. Greg, you've completely basically absolved him of all sins based on your ranking. I'm saying, I've said consistently, I should be the one that's in the baker's. I should be the other one that's in the bakers doesn't. My thing is I've seen him play at an extremely high level. So he's shown that he can do that. And even last season, I think if you watch.

every snap he took and compared it to Donald and Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield is miles ahead of those two last year, even in his down year. I really think, like, he was okay. He was not good. He made some mistakes, but that's where I see him right now. It's fair to say he is a combustible persona to some degree. Like, when things are not going well and then he piles on, it was not helpful to Cleveland.

And, like, he said he's matured, so either he has. I mean, you have your Kyler Murys who, like, don't say a single word over the course of a calendar year, just lift weights, work, and maybe that's what you want. But I don't mind in the AFC North by Cleveland Browns quarterback with a little bit of personality if it doesn't cost them. If it doesn't totally. Being a personality, though, doesn't, like being a knucklehead and having a personality.

I know, but that's, but, Greg, or Dan, that's you judging him as a knucklehead versus the general population scene in the way he is. Like, you were calling him, you were worried that he was Johnny Mansell when we went during the draft process. And it has nothing to do with Johnny Mansell's issue. No, I don't know where you're talking from on that. I think that's in your head. fair criticism though of Baker. I think that is the concern because to me just in terms of the

football skill set and what we've seen, I don't have a ton of questions. So I understand Dan's questions about that. That's exactly right. Rosenthal's right. The football in part of it is there. The thing that if you weren't already aware, the imperfect Jordan documentary reminds you of what really cuts it for a real competitor. Swagger all you want when things are going well. Baker has not shown the ability to rise when there's adversity. That's the issue for him. I will just say, though, in an overarching way, I really think it's remarkable as you try to cobble these lists together.

I mean, there are fully 20 or so guys that you can see, at least, that are capable of winning the Lombardy Trophy, right? I don't think you would have said that five years ago. I think it's amazing, like I say, the big three to me are Mahomes, Russell, and Deshaun Watson, and then there's a meaty second tier of really high-end quarterbacks. The guy who nobody has mentioned in this conversation and hasn't probably mentioned in about a year is Matt Stafford. But if he comes back right, he's another guy who's capable of being nothing less.

Once you get past that three of Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, it's now like Rogers, Rathesberger, Breeze, Brady, Dak, Matt Ryan, have as many question marks around them as Matt Stafford does. There's a chance Matt Stafford could, by this time, February, be like, see, Matt Stavard's going to the Hall of Fame. It's always been like, he's on the edge of like, he's on the edge of like, is he Jay Cutler Part 2?

But I think there's still room for him to ascend a little bit further. It's got a long way to go before Hall of Fame. I have him, on my rankings, I have him sandwich between Brady and Big Ben at number 10. I see his potential as well. Yeah, I'm with, I have him higher than those guys in my top 10. I mean, he's someone, if he actually. actually had been available. I don't think he was, but he would admit, like, I would rather

have Matthew Stafford than Sam Darnold. Like, I guess that's why he's that high on this list. Like, I, I am not betting on, uh, unknown upside of Gardner Minshew or whatever over or, or, or Donald over, uh, old Maddie Stafford. But would you take Stafford over, would you take Stafford over Baker? That's a tough one. That's a close one. Think about how many ascendant guys, though, there are in the league all of a sudden. between Darnold, I think Josh Allen, the cynicism, oh, he sprays the ball around too much, as I always say. If Cam Newton and Ben Rathesberger had a baby, it would be Josh Allen.

It's the same skills as those two guys. Inaccuracy is not an end-all. You have no chance of succeeding in the NFL if you lack accuracy. Ben Routhusperger came into the league, one of the best deep ball throwers in the NFL. Josh Allen couldn't, is the worst. So I don't know. Maybe Cam Newton is half, but the other half. The archive.

They got the archive. Oh, he's totally inaccurate. He's not an accurate. It's like maybe the brainchild of Tyler Thigpin and Cam Newton. You're just giving him too good of a second father. Sorry. What is our, what is, go ahead.

Sorry. Let's put a button on it, though. What, let's try to put it. I think it might be impossible to put a button on this conversation. But what would be kind of our big takeaway at the end of this conversation? Is there a clear cut successor to Dalton? Maybe it is still Dalton.

Maybe it is still Dalton. Maybe it's the fact. that he's the back of quarterback for the Cowboys doesn't change the fact that that's still who it is. Like that's kind of the guy that you want to be on the right side of the ledger with him as the break the break. Like I don't think Andy Dalton, we all decided last year that Dalton was still the Dalton scale. Did Andy Dalton get worse as a quarterback last year? Or was he just in a horrendous situation and it was time for him to go? I still think he's still the same guy. So shouldn't he still be the Dalton scale? Should the Dalton scale live ultimately? Okay. You just

sold me. Mark is muted. I think West would agree. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I would think he would maybe say the same thing. Maybe we'll ask him about that when he comes back. I'd say the Bengals, I mean, basically looked at the Dolvan scale and said, he's falling below it. We want something better finally. I mean, for me, if I had to pick someone, the person that feels right, the same way that Ryan Tannahill, what the dolphins did a few years ago, is Derek Carr. We've discussed it. We've gone through it. I just feel like that's the guy for me. It's a good choice. It just rings true. How about you, Shaq? If you had to pick one guy. I guess I will stick with where I went there with Ryan Tannahill because to me, the cutoff point is if everything breaks right around this guy, can you see him hoisting a Lombardi trophy?

Ryan Tannahill was 30 minutes and a few seconds away from getting to Miami a year ago. So he, we know is that guy. Jared Gough is that guy. I have my doubts about a number of guys below that. And, but yeah, it's an interesting, it's really only, I'm trying to look at how many names I have here. There may be 10 names that right now I wouldn't say like, yeah, they're, they ain't winning the Super Bowl. I think we're 16 games away from Teddy Bridgewater having like an Alex Smith in Kansas City like season and saying it's like the Teddy Bridge quarterback over Choppy Waters line. I don't know what you call it. We'll workshop it.

I don't know, but he could be the guy. We need a little more, yes, though. We need a few more starts. I can't grow up here. Teddy is a guy to keep an eye on. All right, good conversation, guys. Before we go, before we say goodbye, it is time to revisit the wheel of teams. Yes, what is the wheel of teams?

We decided, Shaq, I know you are a every show listener to the ATN pod, so this is not news to you. But we have decided in the time. of a pandemic in the deep offseason with no spring activities that we're going to start devoting our Wednesday show in part to a single team. We track down one of the best beat writer or coverage people. We talk to them and then we all do a study and then really break down that particular team. It started when the wheel spun for the first time with Arizona Cardinals. And yes, there are concerns, Mark Sessler, internally at NFL media, that when we put the ask out to the graphic team that they accidentally did not randomize it.

So it landed on the Cardinals with the first team because they're the first in the alphabet, which would make the Atlanta Falcons, the team that will land on in week two. That is what we're hoping to avoid, Mark, but we're going to find out right now. One of the reasons there was concern, you know, check, we all guessed which team it would land on, and I randomly, with no, nothing behind it, just guessed the Arizona Cardinals. And we thought, well, that's a nice little moment. Then we thought, wait, if this is going alphabetically, we're in big trouble. We're about to find out, I think we should, do we want to predict again?

Or do you want to avoid that? I don't know. Are you okay, Dave? Are you so excited that your respiratory system is breaking down? I don't have the 19. Don't worry about that. I'm going to predict, in honor of handsome Hank, the London Monarchs. All right, let's spin it.

Let's swing. Let's spin the wheel. Ricky, let it loose. All right. It is spinning. It is landing on, oh, this is exciting. The New York Giants, the G-Boh. That's interesting.

I like that. We haven't talked about that much. It's funny, in the post-Ely era, they've been more under the radar than they've ever been on this show. So they're a good team to talk about. Yep. That's a fun one. So Big Blue will be the subject,

and we will put our heads together and figure out who is a good outset. side source to bring on to the show and try to reel them in to talk a little Giants football as they begin a new era with spaghetti how about that tiki bar with dan no jones same higher all good ideas all good ideas we'll get it in giant talk on wednesday i can't believe we we didn't touch on tyrod taylor who's got who perhaps is on the best roster uh he's below it at that's i can't hear a tyrod taylor i just wanted to work in there because i was thinking what if the charges come up here and we didn't even talk about tie rod there i'll see you guys when it's time for uh for the stealers one yes that sounds good david and and and kirk cousins didn't

come up in that conversation either which was a bit of an upset but uh yeah so the giants will be the subject on on wednesday or thursday excuse me on our thursday show we have a little bit of a different schedule because of the holiday memorial day on monday uh dame damasheck you you've said it all you came in and uh as you always have and you always will you brought you brought high energy and great analysis and as the originator of mirth at NFL media, we thank you, as always, for bringing that as well. Don't you patronize me? No.

Thank you. I appreciate it over the moon for you guys with the ongoing success. Keep it going. And muzzle-tove, of course, to Wes and Lakeisha, over-the-moon times 10 for them. Thank you, sir. Thank you. All right. And yes, we will talk to Wes on Thursday.

So another exciting thing to look forward to. All right, that's it. Dan Hansa signing off for Quiet Storm, the old boss, Shack. Oh, the Shack Republic's going to be plugged in on today's show. That's another reason to be excited. Everybody, thank you for listening. Until Thursday. You know, I'm going to be able to be.

Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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