NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - The Dalton Scale?

Episode Date: May 12, 2016

A room full of heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler – break down the latest news from the NFL including Sam Bradford’s agent saying his client wanted to play for the Broncos and the potential of the Titans “Thunder and Thunder” backfield. Then the heroes talk some “Top 100” players of 2016 before wrapping the show breaking down NFL QBs using the “Dalton Scale.”Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Hi and hello, football fans, your old pal, Dave Damashek here. Make sure you check out the Dave Damashek football program. You can watch it on YouTube, NFL.com. You can listen to it on iTunes or Stitcher or NFL.com slash podcasts. We look at the world of pro football and the game called life. The Around the NFL podcast. Can't wait.

for the next time Greg's family leaves time. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal, along with a couple of heroes, Mark Sessler, and Chris Wessling. And don't worry, Dan Hansis, your host is going to be here very soon. We had to get the show started. Yeah, pull back the curtain. We were in a rush. We had to do an NFL now hit, and Damashek's going to take over the studio in about 40 minutes.

So we were in a rush. And I told Greg, if we start on time, I'll get him a sandwich. He said if we start before 1020, you're giving me a sandwich and we started the show before 1020. That's the rule. And Dan was about to start the show and then leaves, forgets his laptop, very unprofessional move by Dan, has to scurry down to the newsroom. And, you know, good job by the boss. Got to get it rolling. You're taking shots.

You know, we do this show all the time. It always starts the same way. We got to mix it up a little bit. And oh, by the way, Damash's podcast is coming in a little later. so we had to get we had to get it going i mean the bottom line is you jerrymandered the process very unprofessional effort what is going on here the rules of the podcast the lunch that's what is wrong with this guy is that if the show started before 1020 then i get the sandwich this is the lowest you ever sung to get a seven dollar sandwich dan hansis has stepped in this into the room right

this is your 9-11 how could you i literally went downstairs to get my laptop and we're would be back in two and a half minutes, and you started the show to win a sandwich, so you leveraged your own personal gains and your gambling addiction against the show? There's no addiction. That's a horrible lie. You're in recovery, but you relapsed here.

We had to start the show, too, because the studio is booked afterwards. We had to get a good. There was no gamble. He didn't have to give me anything. You were there earlier this morning, Mark, and Dan said, didn't he even come up with this idea? If I'm running really late, you guys could start the show without me.

Dan did voice that as an option, and Greg followed through. I will say, though, Greg, that we spent 16 minutes talking NBA basketball casually, so I do think it tied into this start time. Suddenly, you know, you got going and bang, we had to kick the thing. And again, I one take Jake in my now hit. I got up here at 1017. Humblebrug. Right.

And then realized I had to go get my laptop. So I got up here at 1020. So I was up here, like, I didn't, I got here before. Well, who's fault was it that you forgot your laptop? It's not my fault. I'm not giving up that sandwich because you forgot your laptop. That's good managing. You know, give some bullet points to the support to the people.

We opened up the door from NFL now to exit, and Greg was sprinting down the alleyway. Well, I wanted to make sure I could get my. Greg, by the way, you are the boss, and part of being the boss is putting the team ahead of yourself. I just have to say it. I think this was an entertaining start to the show. Why not?

Whatever you have to tell yourself. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis, of course, and Mark Sessler, Chris Wesley, and Greg Rosenthal, all here. By the way, I already gave out. Oh, did you do that, too? A pre-gade. I thought you're just huffing and puffing about your sandwich victory.

I gave a pre-gauge show of B-plus. Dan, fresh off doing one take. I'm kidding. I did not really give the pre-gade show it out, but I did give the little spiel. Do you want to do a hey, Dan? No, it doesn't feel right, right? Very jumbled. Ooh.

Today's show. Yeah. I never know what Greg's capable of now. He's like Heath Ledger in the Dark Night. Just wants to see the world burn. Some people just want to see the world burn. It's the nicest thing you've ever said to. Cue up 75 tweets at me.

Never do a British accent again. It's offensive. Offensive. I can do it if I want. It's our podcast. Offensive. Yeah. Well, that's just like your opinion, man.

Thank you, Big Lebowski. On today's show, we are going to get into a couple of things. Top 100 has once again because the NFL cannot have a purely dark period. There needs to be some type of hardcore banger involved that can be written about and live television can be aired and people can get all excited. So what happens during this post-draft period pre-minicamp is the top 100, a 10-episode special on NFL network where the NFL players vote on the, and the NFL players alone, we're told. They fill out ballots, and through those ballots, we find out who are the top 100 players of 2016.

Last week, they rolled out 100 through 91, and this week it was 82 through 90. So we'll talk about it. It's never a popular exercise. Mark, it gets you especially angry. It is gripping television. Let's start there. No, it makes me angry and I was up literally at 3.30 in the morning last night

irritated about this list. Other things, too, but this was one of the things that I felt agitated. You're not losing sleep over this list. I just can't sleep in general and you start to cycle through things that agitate you and this did populate my mind. It really did?

I find it ridiculous. That's fascinating. And I've written two, you know, rehashed two weeks of it already. We do have done. We do have an NFL, you know, annual tradition that is a lot more lovable and is thought-provoking. And that's the Dalton scale back with the big Dalton Stale pot.

By the way, you are not hosting this show. No, no, what do you think? The whole thing. We're actually going to take the Michael Bennett news out. A little Brutus moment. I think we're running out a little, we're running a little long here. You two Brutai? Maybe just take out the Bennett thing.

We've got to get to the Dalton scale is back. That's the other part of today's show in which we will talk about. trying to figure out the prime meridian of NFL quarterbacks. Historically, it's been Andy Dalton, but then he performed at a Pro Bowl level last year, so a lot of people think he cannot be seen as the middle point. And Wes, once again, the player that is the Dalton scale, the center of the Dalton scale, what does he represent? He is the point at which you need a franchise quarterback if you are below him,

or you have a franchise quarterback if you are above him. Okay, so we will get into all that. But before we do, we have to hit the news. Irish from behind the class, let's do it. Hey, your lesson here, babe, you come at the king. You best not miss. Omar, Omar Little from the Wire. Not sure what the reference is.

I think he's saying that I just took my shot on you, Dan. Hashtag Brutai. No, no, no. I just wanted to, I heard Greg, you know, mentioned the Wire on last podcast. and I just want to be like, you know what, I'm listening to you guys. It was perfect, though. I'm here for you. You should have taken credit for doing it on the fly.

That would have been genius. That would be a chisel moment if you would have, like, rolled with it and taken the credit for that. So being, like, a better producer and actually listening to you guys makes me less. Well, that's good, but better to lie to make yourself look better. I do plenty of that already. Okay, good. All right, let's start with Sam Bradford. Oh, Tom Condon.

Hey, Tommy. Come back to us. Take a break, bro. he has spoken to almost every major media outlet in America at this point to share his feelings about his client, Sam Bradford, who deserves a better lot in life, you know, the guy that's made over $100 million to be on the wrong side of the Dalton scale. His latest stop was the Rich Eisen Show where Condon confirmed that the goal was to place Bradford in Denver, once the Eagles traded up with the intention of drafting carts and Wentz, number two overall, which of course they did. Here's a Condon said, we thought we had a chance to go to a really good football team and be there for a long time.

And that opportunity was there. And actually, the attempt was made. He went on to say when the Broncos contacted the Eagles and talked about the trade, they couldn't agree on a price. So they drafted somebody in the first round. Now, at that point, our options are pretty limited. So our next best option is to go back and prepare for the season. Hey, Tom, who is this helping right now?

I know you're giving Rich a nice little nugget and we're happy about that, the face of NFL network. But at the same time, it's like, who does this help to say that we were really excited to go to the Broncos and it just didn't work out? I actually feel a little bit better about Bradford after this. That it wasn't that he, you know, didn't want to compete. He just wanted to play for the Broncos. Why does that make you feel better?

Because I understand that. That's right. You guys got your quarterback of the future. The Broncos have an opening. Let's see if I can get there. Now the whole trade requesting didn't have to be public. Condon could have worked this behind the scenes with Elway and Howie Rose. without making it public.

Well, Ian reported even before the draft that there was contact between the two teams, so it's not a total shock. What his comments do is give a little context. And that's why my thought on this was while it makes Bradford unlikable in Philadelphia, and I get that, I didn't have a huge problem with him exercising the small bit of leverage he had to see if he could get something better before the draft. It didn't work. They thought maybe the Broncos were going to give up a real pick for him.

And they weren't. The Broncos, to their credit, they sniffed around on Kaepernick and Bradford, but they're like, we're not giving up anything. Once again, John Elway has evaluated all of these quarterbacks correctly. Well, it's a bad look for Bradford in Philly. He's getting tortured there, and that makes sense. But I would say, you know, from his angle, let's say Greg went out and hired a 23-year-old, newly fashioned host for this show.

By the way, anything's possible after what happened earlier. But, Dan, you'd want out of town, right? Oh, sure, sure, sure. So that's where Bradford sits I mean his replacement's been taken I mean he's I have some experience with this I would just you know Find a way to stick around

I'd outwork the guy I'd prove myself and that would be it You'd bury this little Yeah I'd bury that little A little rat By the way Google Tom Condon Anyone listening to this

Could be Dan's uncle Very similar hair Really similar makeup very has a Dan Hansus-esque look to him He's a great agent I mean he's a bitch guy He's a bitch guy Former guard

six three and he's got a lot of high profile agents i'm just saying you know at a certain point it starts working that's a suzer hair well he mean you guys i've seen him in the hotel lobby one time you're right big dude well sorry i was in a lobby he was also in the lobby i observed it has he really could be from the hansis family line well now i kind of like him well he well he's definitely not from a coal mining town and if that was his uncle dan would not be here i mean tom con did you is quite i don't even i would be surprised if this wasn't true but i I'm just guessing that he has made more money than any NFL agent in the history of the NFL. Well, probably off Sam Bradford alone.

That would be my guess. 10% of Sam Bradford's salary. Have a nice time with that. He's got all the big court. I mean, he's basically had all the big quarterbacks, including the Mayings. Let's move on. The Tennessee Titans will feature a, quote, thunder and thunder backfield. That, according to Rashad Johnson, the Titan safety, had this to say about DeMarco Murray and Derek Henry, the team's second round pick.

I think he's going to win a lot of those one-on-one battles, Johnson told the Tennessean of Derek Henry. So him and DeMarco Murray going back and forth, it's going to be a nice thunder-and-thunder combination. Mark, there's a reason we usually don't hear about a thunder-and-thunder combination is because what you want is thunder-in-lightening. You want to have some, you know, different skill sets that make your backfield dynamic. This just feels like, oh, we have a bad dynamic in our backfield, but we're proud of it. Very, very fair point. I mean, I think you have to look at the fact that Murray may not be what they think they're getting. I mean, last year in the offseason, I did a running back rankings piece where multiple people touted the Eagles,

heads and tails as the number one backfield going into the season because of a similar dynamic where you had multiple running backs who could start and it just seemed so dynamic. And in the end, it was all wins. So the Titans, and I like the idea of the Titans, you guys. to prove it, but I don't mind them having more than one running back that can do, you know, some hard-hitting, bruising backfield action. As bad as Murray was last year, he would have been easily the best running back on the Titans roster at last year's form. You know, they had nothing.

Well, you think this is part of a larger NFL trend, some teams going against the grain. Well, John Robinson, the Titans GM told Peter King after the draft, he noted that NFL teams are basically playing sub-packages on defense. nickel and dime 70% of the time now. That's your base defense almost. So he said to counteract that we're going to play a bigger game, move those smaller guys off the ball. And to me, that's interesting. It's what the Cowboys are going to do too. Both of those teams have invested at least three first round picks in their offensive lines. They've invested in running backs. And to me, this is

the formula for how to develop a young quarterback. The Ravens did it with Joe Flacco. Seahawks did it with Russell Wilson. 49ers went to the Super Bowl with Colin Kaepernick doing this. The Panthers did it with Cam Newton. You want that defense and running game to develop your young quarterback. By the way, they have lightning in theory with Dexter McCluster to some degree. He's been in theory for five years. Well, but this is in theory too. It's a great nickname.

This whole Titans thing, I mean, you've got to go prove it. I like, though, the Titans are now the home for coming up with cute nicknames for their offense. You know, first they came up with exotic smashmouth. Now, John Robinson came up with Thunder and Thunder. This is their cornered now. By the way, so we really have to take the Titan seriously? They're my favorite for a team of ATL. All right.

Moving on. Tell me if you heard this one before. Michael Bennett wants more money. The Seahawks pass rusher is sitting out voluntary workouts, hoping that the Seahawks redo the four-year $32 million deal that, let me just stress this because Bennett has been a turd in the past, if you recall, with the old Zusser. The $32 million that he agreed to in 2014.

Here's what John Schneider had to say via SeattlePI.com. I don't get the impression he's fine with his contract, but I think he recognizes it's a team sport, and I'm sure he sees a couple of his teammates who have one year left on their contracts. He has two left on his. We have a couple of guys that are going to be unrestricted free agents at the end of the season

that we'd like to try to take care of as well. Translation, get in line, Mikey. Well, I don't mind him doing this. First of all, if you're a 30-year-old guy and been in the league that long, you don't want to go to these OTAs, so just use any excuse not to go. It's voluntary.

Second, he's underpaid. He's one of the most underpaid players in league. He's underrated. I mean, he's the key to their defense. He's 30 years old. You try to get the money while you can. And we talked about with Edelman and Amadola, these teams will squeeze you any way that they can.

So you might as well do it, do what you want to do. Bennett is a top 50 player in the NFL that he's getting five or six million. This is Seattle's version of Adrian Peterson wants to play until he's 40. Yeah. Third straight year, we've heard this out of Michael Bennett. Well, the problem is he signed a great deal for the Seahawks. It's a team. It's a problem for him, not for the series.

Right, exactly. He'll come back eventually. But I get it. I mean, he is underpaid. He was so good last year. And by the time he's done with this contract, he'll be 31, 32, and he's not going to get that big deal again. We give guys credit when they bank on themselves and take one year, prove it deals. So you could give this guy some criticism that he, I'm not saying he didn't bank on himself,

but he didn't go out. He didn't think he was going to become a top 50 player. Obviously, if he signed this contract. Well, the difference, though, is if this was a podcast. of four former players sitting here, they'd all be on his side. You've got to fight for that money while you got a chance to make it.

So you're saying I'm the most like a former player. In many ways, in many ways, you do mirror any former player, pro athletes. And finally in the news, Maurice Bowringer, the six-round pick of the Minnesota Vikings wide receiver and the first player to go directly from a European Football League to the NFL.

Great news, great news. For people that are fans of the oomlaught, Bowringer got approval from the NFL this week to add the umlaught over the oh in his name so remember if you are going to get that ironic hipster Bowringer jersey and you live in Minneapolis or in the area make sure it has the umlot or it's not official what about those people that you know already bought that jersey

you're banked well I don't it's a terrible situation for those people you think that was that his jersey has been available before now I think that he's the kind of person that enough people get behind the story that a lot of jerseys have been sold and they're there in you've wasted a hundred and eight bucks look we're all rooting for for moritz but he's a sixth round guy uh who's never played you know on this side of the pond i would hold off and see how things go before uh before buying the jersey Greg you've held off on buying any jersey ever do you own any NFL jerseys well i'm an adult and wearing another man's name on my back and like a silly uniform seems odd.

It would be like going to work wearing baseball pants. I'm going to be honest, Stan, I pushed for that news item to be included, and I don't remember why. I'm sorry about that. There are now an equal number of umlau's and Cedias in the NFL. Is that the Garsohn? Yeah. I like that.

And I never call out the comment section on our website because it's a cesspool, but I will give Frank Williams credit. He has the most recent comment to the post that I wrote, how boring with the umlaught over the other. Well done, comment person. Way to go. Somebody in our cesspool of ignorance comment section did that? That was clever. Way to go.

How boring. All right. And that's what's happening in the news. Let's now move on and talk about the top 100 players of 2016 an NFL network exclusive, now hosted by Amber Theo Harris. It had been Lindsay the last few years. So we've got to get back on the show, by the way, Linz. And maybe we should get Amber on at some point as well during this top 100 run of the next several weeks.

They revealed 81 through 90, Matt Forte at 90, Alan Hearns, Cameron Hayward, Julian Edelman, Jonathan Stewart, Kirk Cousins at 85, Toma Ali, Telvin Smith, Alani Walker, and coming in at number 81. Alex Smith, somebody, a name that's going to come up a little later in today's show, I think. Wes, any issues with the latest unveiling of the top 100? Well, my issues are the same as Mark's issues, that this exercise means nothing. but Alan Hearns, to me, we don't know who's above him from 1 to 80 at wide receiver, but we know in the 90s were Sammy Watkins, Jeremy Macklin, and Jarvis Landry, and there is not a general manager in the NFL, including the Jaguars general manager, I would believe, who would take Alan Hearns over those three players.

Sammy Watkins, for sure, is over those two players. I wouldn't have put those other two on. Something is going on strange with the Jaguars. They announced that there's five more Jaguards or five total Jaguars on this list, despite really being lucky to win five games last year. Telvin Smith is almost an unheard of, up-and-coming, good player. I don't know if I'd put them in this type of class yet. It's as if 12 people voted for the top 100,

and three or four of them were associated with the Jaguars organization. Because for these two guys to be on this list, this is how the voting works, that means people voted them as top 20 players in the NFL. That's all they ask the players. Put the top 20. So it's a bunch of Jaguars teammates saying, oh, yeah, Alan Hurons, he's the number five player in the NFL. And at some point, we almost have to just let it go

because this is the same lunacy that we're hit with year after year. And if you look at last year's top 100 podcast conversations, we're bringing similar stuff because the voting process is hazy. It is misguided. And I believe the NFL network loves it that way. But at this point, we're supposed to believe that Alan Hearns is a more valuable asset to a team than Derek Carr, or according to these players, whoever these people are, Andrew Luck is less valuable than Alan Hearns.

Well, that's preposter. Or Telvin Smith, yeah. That is beyond ridiculous. We did our own top 100 list, by the way. Chris Wesley and I, and actually, a lot of these players are similar. We should average out all this. Edelman, Cameron Hayward, it's, you know, some of it. Since we're doing this exercise anyway, we should average out our list and talk about that

on the podcast instead of the atrocity that is the players list. Yeah, because I can I defend Telvin Smith real quick? Sure. Okay. Then I'll defend the top 100. You go first. Okay, so Telvin Smith, look at stuffs, which are plays made behind the line of scrimmage minus sacks. The top six in the NFL reads like a list of defensive player of the year candidates.

J.J. Watt, Aaron Donald, Michael Bennett. Mark Barron's in there. Kaleel Max's in there. And Telvin Smith is third or fourth on that list. Telvin Smith, if you go – I was randomly watching that Bill's Jags-London game. where the first half shows what the Jags could be if everything went right. Telvin Smith is one of the fastest linebackers in the game right now,

and he was fantastic in that game. So I don't have a problem with him being on this list, but these quarterbacks that are below him is absolutely absurd. My defense of the top 100, although not in its current incarnation, I like lists. I like looking at these type of things and talking about them, but it is, you cannot, you can't say that it could be improved.

and I think it could be improved by opening up to more than just the players but the problem is that's the whole hook of the top 100 that this is what the players think but there just seems week after week and especially the luck thing like there should be I would think certain red flags or it's like whoa whoa whoa there's no way we could have a list where Andrew Luck is behind Alex Smith by 10 spots so I think there are improvements that could be made

and if there's a shadowy league figure that's listening Mark Sessler has volunteered to be a part of that committee I would say this, that the NFL network, and I don't think that they would deny this if you really put a gun to the head, that they like this list with these outrageous nuggets happening week to week because it generates tweets, conversations, and reaction. Andrew Luck was all over on a slow newsday last Friday. He showed up in almost any relevant football blog, his placing in the top 100. So you're probably right. Now, whether that is right.

To quote Mike Silver, show business, baby. Yeah. All right. Anything else on the top 100 this? I don't know if we can keep talking about it. We're going to get in trouble eventually. One of these weeks, we'll talk about Weston-Ey's top 100. That's what I'm saying.

We've unveiled 80 to 100. Well, I think your ideas right. Just shift over and do yours. They tweeted Greggs last night, and I didn't realize it was Gregs. And I thought, wait a minute. A, I wrote an article and I got all the players wrong. But this group that Dave's tweeted out makes a lot of sense. And then it was like, oh, it's Greg's.

Nice move, Mark. That will help you. Listen, I'm going to, when they come after you for this top 100 grant, I'm now going to defend the hell out of you because you know what you're talking about. You got your sound drop, you know, play that up to the show for you. Well, I have a little boss defense. I have Kurt Cousin's reaction to this. You like that!

You like that! Put the chisels down. That is great sound. Put the chisels down. Tired sound drop. That's a good transition. That's like TD Celebration sound drop. Yeah, let's.

I can find that. I'll put it on right now. Listen, you know, I love. I love, Brandon, you know I love that your effort's always 100%. I appreciate that. That's where I'll leave it there. At least I'm entertained over here. Yeah, over 100%, almost 110%.

All right, let's move on. Let's talk a little Dalton scale. As we said, the Dalton scale is really our quarterback rankings, but we, this is not, we're waiting out of the top 10 discussion because that's what people love to talk. Who's the best quarterback? When it comes down to it, those top three or four guys, they're not, I'm not going to say they're interchangeable,

but there's no right or wrong answer. And it's so highly debated. At some point, you've got to move away. So what we do here at the around the NFL podcast, we try to figure out the middle section, the soft underbelly of this conversation, and we want to find out how far can you go in terms of a list of NFL quarterbacks

before you reach the point of no return, no return being no chance at playing in February. That is the Dalton scale. And for years, we've been doing this long enough where I can say for years. Andy Dalton was that guy. He was the prime meridian. It was mostly agreed upon the idea that Dalton was kind of that guy

where everyone on the other side of Dalton that was worse had no chance of being a franchise quarterback. And the people in front of him were. And then something strange happened. In his fifth season, Andy Dalton became a Pro Bowl-type quarterback for long stretches of the season, which made him a tough play to be the Dalton scale. Wes, I know you still have some feelings that he should remain at the Dalton line.

maybe this is a time to make the case. Well, as I said on the last podcast, baseball, the 200 market, still known as the Mendoza line. Mendoza has been retired for 30 years. So even though it logically doesn't make any sense, the branding is such that you just leave it, which I think that's actually an okay argument. That is one thing.

Because I don't think it makes sense. That is one thing. Also, I made my list as of May who I would build a roster around, and Andy Dalton is sitting right in the middle among the 30-year-old quarterback. And this is only really problematic for the next seven seasons or so. Once Sandy Dalton's out of the league, then we're in the clear like Mendoza, this Mendoza character, Carl Mendoza from early 20th century baseball.

Mani Mendoza, right? I think it's Manny Mendoza. No, actually, I think I bet that. I think it was Carl. It was Ramiro Mendoza, the former Yanke. Oh, great. This is getting uncomfortable, this Greg Dan thing. But really.

It is Manny, by the way. But really. From the Texas Rangers. So I'm okay with that because we talked about Tannescale. Mario Mendoza, I'm sorry. All right. Can we, let's just talk Mario Mendo. And we get the car started and get moving here.

So there will be a period. I'm with West. Is everyone on board this, keep it the Dalton scale. Even though Andy Dalton will appear on the list on the Dalton scale and not be the prime meridian, is that what could possibly happen here? I don't think that makes sense. I don't like the name Alex Smith for the scale, but he to me is the Dalton. He is the prime meridian right now.

Alex Smith is the perfect choice. He is so perfect. He is the perfect replacement for Andy Dalton. And so to me, when I'm making this list, is a guy a franchise quarterback or not, Alex Smith is that line. And if Andy Dalton's above that line, how is Andy Dalton above the Andy? How is he off the Andy Dalton scale? The Alex scale.

I mean, I totally agree with Alex Smith. I think that the thing with Andy Dalton, where this made so much sense before last season, was that Dalton felt like a guy the minute he hit the, the league, his ceiling was known. And he wasn't going to go above it. We knew who he was. But I think he's changed as a player where Alex Smith is deeper in his career. And I would be shocked if Alex Smith, even though Alex Smith has had some very statistically

good seasons, he is that guy. And you pick a young guy like Teddy Bridgewater or someone else, you're banking on him not changing. You title this episode, the Alex Smith scale, and watch the downloads tumble. I was going to say, for like. That's a problem with the branding. I'll buy that. Alex scale.

For five seconds, I thought that this was. would be this would be it the first time that that west changed his opinion on something that we're going to get him didn't get him so close i have changed my opinion on things well it's it's a it could be a positive i think indy doughton you have strong opinion i think indy doughton is now a franchise quarterback i still think he's a distributor at quarterback he's not a playmaker so i would take a marcus marriota and a blake bordels over him but the i mean cutler would be another option for this i don't know if There's a fancy name. I like Alex Smith, too.

I like Alex Smith. He's the best one. Let's tentatively and Wes just roll with it for now. I agree that he is the, what do we call it? The Prime Meridian? Yeah. He is the Primeridian. So he is the Primitian.

But it's still the Dalton scale. So if Dan did not understand the Dalton scale before, famously he's had a hard time. Now it's really confusing. West simply has branding issues with changing it, which I understand. It's funny. Now that it's more complicated, now I understand it. So Alex Smith is the prime meridian of the NFL brand. Let's use that as a jumping off point.

Forget about the branding. We have some money that we want to make. We have coffee mugs and beer coosies and t-shirts with the Dalton scale in a warehouse that we need to sell. The scales, of course. Yeah. So let's, what did I say? That's what we have. I'm saying we're selling scales.

I'm saying we're selling scales. Actalton scale. It's got his face on it. You just step on it on it. Giant Dalton face. So, but the primoridian is Alex Smith. So why don't we, if he is the middle point, who is directly behind him? Who's the first guy?

Kurt Cousins, which makes sense because the Redskins won't give him a long-term contract. But they also don't want to lose him. Wait, but you're the kissing Cousins. You don't think he's. You guys took my Redskins support all wrong last year. It was about the NFC East being garbage. It wasn't because I thought Kirk Cousins was a great quarterback. It was that Greg was disrespecting him all year.

Mark, that is life on the island now, Kirk Cousins Island. I would take Kirk Cucsons. Cousins over Alex Smith. So he is above it. That is fascinating to me, Wes, that you put Cousins below the Dalton scale, that he's on the other side. He's not a franchise quarterback. If he does, the Redskins would lock him up. Now, you know that I agree with you on that.

And I don't think, I think he has a chance like Dalton to get a little bit better. And like Dalton, he's in a... So does Alex Smith. He's in a situation with a lot of talent around him, which definitely helps a lot. But I agree to me, Cousins is not a guy that you just see. Okay, next six years, let's give him $90 million. He's our guy, period. Well, hold on, though.

He's not there. He could get there, maybe, but he's not there now. He could get there, and I think it's a smart move by the Redskins, and it's the same thing with Dalton. Even though Dalton had a good season, does anyone really believe that he's going to go necessarily duplicate that again next year? It's very much a wait and see, and it is with Cousins, too. But if Cousins did go do the same thing next season,

I think it gets a long-term deal with the Redskins. Well, I think if Dalton took a step back to where he was the season before, that would be a big disappointment. Now, there's some room in between where he's. He's not just lighting the world on fire. But I think at this point, I'm putting Dalton above that scale, and I'm expecting him to be a plus quarterback that you can win with, that he's better than average.

You tell me if John, if Peyton Manning in his state he was last year, is enough to limp to a Super Bowl win that Andy Dalton, surrounded by the right guys, can't be a franchise-type player? Let's start with one playoff victory before we go talking about Super Bowl. That's a different argument to me, like whether you can win a Super Bowl without a franchise quarterback because it's been proven twice in the last 20 years you can it's really hard to do but it's happened so that that to me is a separate argument

than a guy that's a franchise guy and he got really I mean talk about a guy star cross guy after finally getting his career to the next level he gets his thumb busted on a freak play and misses the playoffs last year and then the team gags away at playoff winning it's a Steelers where I don't know if he was going to have a chance to get back in the lineup ever but I mean, last year he really was a little star-crossed because he had 25 touchdowns entering December and they were, what, 11 and 2?

Could you argue that that helped him because he wasn't the scapegoat because he's on the sideline? Maybe, but we'll never know. We'll never know. They were a Super Bowl contender. If the Broncos could win the Super Bowl, the Bengals could have won the Super Bowl.

There was about seven or eight teams that could have won the Super Bowl, but they were one of them. All right, let me throw out another name here. Ryan Tannahill. I have been way below. Entering year four, I believe, as a starter there?

Yeah, right now, you know, this could, people suggested the Tana scale, which sounds great. Sounds great. But he's definitely below. If you're just basically on last year's play for what it's worth, I did, you know,

the year-end rankings of quarterbacks, I had him 26th for his, just his 2015 performance. He had a rough, rough year. Very milk-toast quarterback. I think he's a hard watch on Game Rewind. You know, the offense has been boring. But another candidate, young,

and I'm not a Tannahill guy at all, but you pair him with Adam Gase, and he could have one of those seats. the same way Cutler did, where we say a year from now, oh, Tanna Hill is finally coming into bloom, not a scale candidate for me because he's too young. We don't know what's going to happen. Well, the year before, I had him, for what it's worth,

which is not much, 13th. I mean, that was sort of the conventional wisdom coming off a very strong Tannahill season. He was number one on our making a leap a few years. Right, which basically played to all of his strength, and he limited mistakes. I think he's a limited quarterback, but with everything perfect around him, he can look okay. He's athletic.

It's fitting that you mentioned Cutler and Gase because Tannahill is the new coach killer. Who's got more coaches fired than Ryan Tannahill? Yes, I wouldn't put that. His third coordinator. He hasn't improved since his first snap in the NFL. All true, but there's a lot of other issues on that team than just Tannahill. I mean, he's taking a beating.

But I will say he's not that young anymore. He's part of the reason for the beating he's taken out of the woods. His numbers are very good. It'll be 28 years old this summer. He's going to be making a 65th start when the season starts. He's been around for a while now. So you would think, and if Andy Dalton, make the jump in his 50. You're right, Mark.

Like Ryan Tannahill could do it too with better coaching and maybe some things click. But at this point, I doubt the guy having seen him so much. I do too. But I know he has empty numbers more than other quarterbacks, and I'll buy that. But for everything that he takes as criticism, the facts are he's 51 touchdowns and 24 interceptions and a 7.1 yards per attempt last two years. Name a big victory. No, no. And I get all that. I'm just saying the other, the other argument for him is that, like, numbers that solid over the last two years, that he's not a total disaster.

He's in the middle, he's okay. By the way, sneaky old. Came in the league, a 24. I keep thinking he's 25-25. Well, and the whole thing was, like, he was going to improve because he hasn't played quarterback as much as other people, and he maybe doesn't have the natural instincts,

and yet what you said Wes resonates with me a lot, which is all the promise that I saw as a rookie, you haven't seen it really move forward a lot. Like, maybe he just doesn't have those instincts. Dan, you are a little overconfident in your ability to hang with the Dalton scale right now. Whoa. So I'm going to throw you for a bit of a loop here? Go ahead.

You're just upset because you lost your branding. Been a rough morning for Dan. Well, Dan also took the shot that you've never changed your opinion, so it's a lot. But everyone knows that. Well, that's not true. Go ahead. This was a problem last year with this list, too. What do you do with Jared Goff, who look what he got traded for?

Nobody would give up that much for Alex Smith. Nobody would give up that much for Kirk Cousins. So obviously he's more valuable as a franchise quarterback than Alex Smith. Well, I... By a team that we've never respected what they think about quarterbacks at all until now. Well, look at what teams were offering for James Winston and Marcus Mardiota the year before. Here's my argument. It is a problem with it, but I look at the Dalton scale more of like it's a performance.

It's not a metric, but it's based on production and performance. He doesn't have any. To me, it's based on... It's not like he's ranked in QBR right now. He's never played. So he's never, he's not on this game. This is where we disagree. To me, it's based on roster building.

So do we all agree that Tannet Hill is on the other side of Alex Smith? He's way below. Way below. I don't know. I don't understand West how that turned into me not understanding. That felt like a shot unwarranted there. What did that have to do with me? It's been a tough show for Dan.

Just a bit for the show, Dan. Roll with the punch. We get to the end of this conversation. He's really after I started. Completely different philosophical ideas about what the list. means it could not be any hazier. And by the way, let me just make something very clear, Greg. This has not been a rough show for me.

It is a rough show for you. No, this is great. You want to talk about La Raville, Magnificos? For a sandwich, you sold the show down the river. You couldn't be more wrong. You're someone that always says, I'll do anything for the show. It's fun to me. I'd kill a man for the show.

You did. So you know what was fun? Mixing up the show start a little bit differently. this morning. It was a little different. Dan, think of it positively. It showed your versatility. You were able to come in, put on the headphones,

mid-show, just slide right in and start doing the old Zeus thing. Yeah. Let's move on. Matt Stafford. All right, so we all agree, Tannahill is on the wrong side of Alex Smith. Who is the other player we talked about so far today? Well, Alex Smith, Tannahill, Dalton, Jared Gaw, Cousins. Okay.

How about Matthew Stafford now? Mark Sessler, is he on the right side of Alex Smith or the wrong side? He's a tough one. He is very tough, but I'm putting him on the upside, the right side. I am not, I think that we talk about a guy that's not fun to watch half the time. That's Stafford, but last year with the magical powers of Jim Bob Cooter, he saw a little bit of a different version of Matthew Stafford, but it's another guy that at this point, how long are we going to wait for him to turn into what we think?

It's been productive. He's frustrating to watch. He can be fun because when he gets going, I mean, he can make some crazy throws and he's a very streaky quarterback. I'd put him just on the right side of this scale. He's not below Alex Smith. I do think he is a franchise quarterback. I think if his organization was better and everything was okay,

he's not a top five quarterback, but I think he's a franchise. Like Wes, if you're talking from a team building angle, he's got to be on the right side. I have Matthew Stafford and Derek Carr as the two quarterbacks between Andy Dalton and Alex Smith. Okay, so Andy Dalton, do we all agree, by the way, that Andy Dalton's on the right side of this list? Yes, I guess we did. Right now at this point in time. But Derek Carr came out and lit the league on fire the first half of last season,

sneaky terrible down the stretch. Well, let's talk Carr. And Stafford was the opposite. Terrible at the beginning of the year. These are two of the most inconsistent quarterbacks in the NFL. We don't know who they are. Is Carr obviously over the line? Because obviously, if we had talked about this last year, he would not have been.

I think his physical tools put him over the line. I actually really liked the way that you see. this and from a team building angle. And you have to say that he absolutely is because they're confidently building the team around him. And he's two years in. Yes, I would. Two years in.

I would too. Absolutely. Derek Carr has a lot to offer. And in Bordels, let's just throw it out there because again, he. They haven't been much higher. He wouldn't have been on the right side of it necessarily at this point. He would have been for me. Yeah, last year we put him on it.

Because some of it is, I'm not, you want to talk with production alone and what they've done, that's fine with Bortals. But if I wanted to build a team, Bortals is the type of quarterback. that I would absolutely sign off on. Agree. And you're right, the production thing doesn't quite make sense. I just don't know what to do with rookies. I feel like you've got to play a little.

I think you got to, I don't think that they're kind of like TBD. Yeah, they shouldn't be on the scale until we see a little. Unless we want to be, unless we're willing to be completely wrong about them from year to year out of the gate. A guy like Phil Sims back in the day didn't play for years. I mean, these guys today are forced out of the field from week one, and you're going to get a lot of inconsistency and unanswered questions. I thought you were going to say Phil Sims said that Andrew Luck does. doesn't have a good arm.

Remember that? Wouldn't be surprised if that came out of his mouth. That did. Mark, I just thought of an off-season idea for NFL network program that centers around you. Okay. You have this love of offensive coordinators, well-documented. Jim Bob Cooter, you just brought up. How about a round table?

You and 32 offensive coordinator's. Giant-ass table. I'd love it. And you just... Are they clothed? Shoot the ass with them all. Excuse me, Greg. That was unprofessional.

I would assume they're clothed. will be the executive. They are wearing clothing in this scenario. I love it. And you just bathe in the knowledge. The only guy not allowed is logins, right? I'm just trying to set it up in a way that Mark would most enjoy it. And that was what I thought.

You couldn't be farther from the target, Craig. I would not be so into defensive coordinators. You're an OC guy. You're a big OC guy. All right. Did we talk enough about Jay Cutler because he feels like a really polarizing quarterback when you talk about the Dalton scale? I have him below Kirk Cussie.

and Jared Goff. There's no way I'm building a franchise around Jay Cutler. There's just no way. From a team building angle 100%. I don't think most teams want to build a franchise around Jay Cutler. Well, I'm obviously the biggest Cutler supporter in the room. Gino Smith, Ryan Tannehill, Jay Cutler. To me, that's not sure.

We're dead on the wrong side of history. To me, Cutler and Alex Smith are two very different answers to what the median is. and Cutler is right there at the meeting. I think Cutler... One of them wins games. No, if you put Cutler in a situation like the Bengals or... He would find a really talented team.

Yeah, poised in the locker room. He started before. Remember when he got outplayed by Josh McCown on the same team with the same weapons? He played well that year. They both played well that year. He also had some monster seasons early in Denver. I think he has a little higher ceiling.

You can't have it both ways, Wes. if you like Josh McCown, you can't bury Cutler for not being as good as McCown. I like Josh McCown. He is what he is, though. He's about the 32nd best quarterback in the NFL. Well, and cannot stay healthy. Cutler's also shown, unlike Alex Smith, that he can be that median in any system. He gets coaches fired in any of those systems.

But he's an average starting quarterback in five different systems. We've seen that. So to me, that just shows that he's like right at the line. I'm putting him right at the line. One person that would a group that might be created with, Greg. No, that's why he's at the line. He's not above or below. I think a lot of NFL coaches fell very hard for Jay Cutler year after year because of his traits.

And I think they'd agree with Greg more than we would. But from an angle. I don't think at this point they would. At this point, no, but for years and years, people, they coveted what Jay Cutler brought from a physical angle. And at this point, it's more about, do you want him in your locker room? Is this guy, is this someone that people believe in? His teammates do like him, though. I feel like when's the last time there was a Cutler-related blowout?

It's, I think that's, it's, it is almost the way that Romo was dog. And if Marshall doesn't say anything nice about him these days? Well, he's kind of a tough case. I just think that the Cutler thing got blown up a little bit where he's, he's ripped on nonstop, but a lot of players have come to his defense. It's that look, too. Just the way Jay Cutler looks, fights criticism. It's like Joe Montana was on our air saying how Colin Kaepernick doesn't communicate with teammates.

And I think that's a fair criticism of Cutler that he is not, you know, at a position where you got to inspire leadership. Like, it's clear that's not his best trade. How about a decade into the league and he still doesn't throw with anticipation? That's fair. That's why he's right at the line. I'm backing off. He used to be above the line.

No one's calling him a top 10. Oh, I've got one. Marcus Mariotta is in the top 10 on my list. Wow. So well on the right side of history. Wow, you are in that. And you might end up being right. I laud that when you believe in a player, you believe in him.

And you believe in Marcus Marcos. I don't think anyone's going to argue. he has a chance to be a true franchise quarterback, right? I mean, I would take him. No, no, we all agree with. I think Wes is just on another level that he's expecting greatness. I'm more like, we'll see. We'll see.

What about Teddy Bridgewater? He's an interesting case. Right around the middle. I'm putting him on the wrong side of Alex Smith right now with an opportunity to grow still, but I haven't seen enough in two years to really be confident about him being a franchise guy. I'm with you. I have him in the Tana Hill, Tyrod Taylor section of my list, definitely on the wrong side.

I would put him as the first player on the wrong side. To me, he's ahead of Tannahill. He's ahead of Tyrod. If we did this exercise a year ago, we would have had him ahead of Carr and Bordles, certainly, Carr. I would not have a Bordle's. We did this exercise, and I believe Mark and I both had Bordles higher. So Teddy, Teddy's a guy who, if you want to criticize him,

the problem is he might just turn into an Alex Smith. And that would be, I think, the worst case scenario. The NFL players, based on their voting, I have to contractually bring this one up. Andrew Luck, right side or wrong side? Number 91 on the top 100. He's number two on my list. Easily on the right side. Number two.

If I'm building a team, it goes Aaron Rogers, Andrew Luck, just like it would have last summer. Ahead of Cam Newton, the MVP? Yes. Nobody thinks Fitzmagic is on the right side, do they? I have him at 31, I think. I want to be convinced he wants to play football right now. Oh, I think he wanted to play. I think he was an average.

I think he was a little better than ever. I never would say that about him at all because he's one of the hardest working guys and he's kept a career going. But, I mean, join a team. Get with the Jets. Do something here. I'm lippy. I'm not sure the rage is at that level, but.

What about Tyrod? I guess you have him just below, Wes. I have Tyrod at 27th on my list. Wait, does that? You have him below. I have him below Ryan, Tannahill, Paxton, Lynch, Teddy, Bridgewater. Who's 30 on your list? Blaine Gabbard.

You have Blaine Gabbard ahead of Ryan's, of Fitzpatrick. Yes, if I'm building a team. Okay. Same reason the other 31 teams in the league don't want to sign Ryan. Yeah, this is the difference between evaluating last season where no one would argue that Fitzpatrick was a better than average starter. I think we know what Ryan Fitzpatrick is. And I think the other 31 teams do, too. Blaine Gabbard.

What about Tyrod? What about what we don't evaluate anything he did? did in Jacksonville, we just throw that out now. I evaluate all the data at my disposal. He was one of the worst players in NFL history with the Jaguar. I agree. And Eli Manning was one of the worst players in NFL history, his rookie year with the Giants.

He wasn't just a rookie, though. By the way, get ready for some genius talk if Chip Kelly can make Blaine Gabbardt, Quentin Patrick and DeAndre Smelter into a top three, you know, combo. Because I think that's what he wants to do. What's a DeAndre Smelter? That is the guy when I'm putting together this projected starters. The 49ers don't.

have any receivers. Quentin Patton's number two, and he has 36 career catches in two years. They don't have it. Their third receiver is a fourth round pick from a year ago that missed the whole season. Well, you could pick anyone on the team's their third receiver. They don't have anyone who ever caught any passes. Got it by Greg a smelter jersey. Jerome Simpson. Meltters feller. So Tyrod's not even close. Tyrod is a fun guy to watch this year. I would not put him above the line, but I want to see what he does. I would put, if I knew he could stay healthy, I would put Tyrod above Teddy Bridgewater. Wow. I'm with you.

I just think he's fascinating. I think we're too low on Teddy. I think that Teddy could change all opinions. I think the traits that he has are ones that stick in terms of his ability to go through reads and, like, the mental side of things. That if he can just, as he gets a little more experience, I think he's going to get a lot better. He's got to pull the trigger. Yeah, he's a young guy. NA.

I mean, RG3 is below. He's below. I mean, the trajectory. of his career is depressing. He could, he has a chance if he starts to change what people think. I'll rank him if he beats out Josh McKin. Oh, he.

You'll rank him where, though? Deep bottom of the list. I'm sure I will. Yeah. Sam Bradford. I don't believe in Sam Bradford at all. If I was a team that needed a quarterback and my GM got convinced and roped into a long-term deal with him,

I'm in depression zone as a fan. I just, I don't want it. I'd rather have Tyrod Taylor. Yes. I'm not, you kind of like Bradford a little bit, I think. No, but I'm not saying, was he any worse than Tyraud Taylor last year? No, I mean, they're different. I just think Tyraud Taylor offers more than Sam Bradford from, depending on the office.

I want a guy who wants to compete. But the real question, is Joe Flacco elite? Old Flacco, who did not have a good season while he played last year? Where is he on your list? Is well ahead of the line. He didn't have a good season, and who was he throwing to? Right. Where's he on your list, Wes?

I have him just ahead of Andy Dalton. He's 15th on my list. Just behind James Winston. I'd have him a little higher. Yeah, Winston, I would put him on the right side, for sure. Eli's on the right side? Kind of in the Marioo. Eli is right there in the Dalton zone.

Wow. Put him like 13 or so. Right behind Flacco. Wow. You have him right there. I'd still have Eli above it. To me, he's a franchise quarterback. What about Brock?

Osweiler? I need to see more. We need to see more. I am 29th behind Bradford. Well, I know who put him ahead of Dalton or ahead of Alex Smith is Rick Smith, Texas General Manager. 72 million reasons. I think Rick Smith would have paid Alex Smith that much money, too.

That's a good point. There was a desperation involved with that whole process after the owner came down after that embarrassing playoff loss. All right, guys. I think we went through just about every quarterback that warranted discussion there. Matt Ryan, right on the nose. right on the line what stop that's just i'm getting there's like 22 quarterbacks right on the line yeah stop he's not right on the line west where do you have him i have him 13th say nice and

above i wanted to have him still has him ahead of flacko i wouldn't have him just kidding but if i'm building i'm taking blake bordle's upside over over matt ryan that's fair do you get the extra five years see i don't know how that works like starting now who do i want to build my team around has matt ryan kind of flatlined a little bit I agree. I would take Bortals. I just like, I mean, there are different physiques, everything. Bortals, much higher.

Let me just throw this out of it. Right now, a player, you want to build around for a future, almost 39-year-old Tom Brady, are we sure we want to build around a middle-aged man? I've got him fifth. I'm winning Super Bowls, baby. I mean, if we're building a team, do you want an old man? Yes, until he is.

Championship banners fly forever. You can build a pretty roster all you want. Until he leaves the earth. I'm looking ahead to the future. He's going to play until he's 45. Come on. He's in his prime right now. Is Father Time not undefeated?

He is. Tom Brady's got him on the ropes, though. He's got the bases loaded on Father Time with Mother Nature warming up in the bullpen. Does that mean he could get wiped out by a hurricane if he keeps on performing well? I don't even know what it means. Yeah. All right. That's it.

That's our Dalton Scale Conversations starring Alex Smith. I don't know. We'll figure it out. It's the Alex Smith scale right now, but it was... The Dalton Scale with Alex Smith featured. It's the scale formerly known as the Dalton. It's like Happy Days in Alex Smith's... I wish...

I wish I could think of a better sequel that this makes sense for. Okay, it's like American Psycho 2, where Milakunis played American Psycho. It's like a sequel, but with a different star. This is all... No one knows about this. And Alex Smith is Maud. I was going to say Teen Wolf, but I was going to say... didn't want to sound too much like Bill's.

I have no idea what's happening at this point. All right. None of us do. That's it. We'll figure it out. We'll be up to the Irish one, actually, because he has to name the show. So another big chisel moment for Irish behind the glass. Do you want downloads or not?

Just, yeah, just call it the D'Andre Smelter Hour. We will be back next week with, I believe, three more shows. We keep the train keeps rolling. It never stops, Mark. Mark, you were thinking maybe two shows next week? three maybe four i'd say just move this thing daily i'd sign off on five one day we should do this daily that's a goal of the show as well that is connor and patcher right now are going to their hair will be on fire if we continue to do this daily they've stopped listening to us so that's

yeah that helps that definitely helps um all right so we'll be back on monday thank you for everyone who listen make sure you um uh sign in over on itunes give us uh the stars five stars leave comments hashtag iTunes challenge and by the way tell your friends do you tell your friends Greg now it is up to you you open the show now you'll close it wow wow better get it right for Mark Sessler the Sizzler I don't remember I gotta say your name first I'm Greg Rosenthal for Mark Sessler Chris Wessling and Dan Hansis I'm Greg Rosenthal to Monday This is an I-heart podcast.