NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - The Debunker Bunker

Episode Date: July 21, 2016

A room filled with heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler – examine the latest NFL news including Odell Beckham Jr’s comments on Josh Norman and the retirement announcements of Eugene Monroe and Charles “Peanut” Tillman. Then, the heroes discuss Russell Wilson’s “Barbershop Talk” before debuting a new segment called “Debunker Bunker" where they disprove conventional wisdom in the NFL.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast. We'll skip training camp if contract demands are not met. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis and I am joined by a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling and Greg Rosethall. What's up, boys? Hey, Dan.

Oh, man. Hit it, Irish. Whoa. Tonight Can't write my story. Katie Perry concert? 7.30 p.m. Greg. Get out of my shot.

Chevy Outfield. Los Angeles, California. The number three seed shield. Meet the number two seed fundamentals for a shot at the title. How are you feeling, Wes? I'm playing. I'm suiting up. I've got this torn hamstring. My entire back of my leg is black and blue. I'm playing. I didn't play all year just to sit out in the playoffs. You are a master of the craft, and that's why we had a big meeting yesterday.

Wait, is Katie Perry still on? We can turn down, Katie. Greg's like, oh, it's too commercial. Take it off. Got to get to my spoon show right after this. Stop being so cynical, Greg. I didn't know that was the official song of the softball team. It's actually the song of the Olympics.

I've never even heard of it. It's new. Wait, is that loud of it? part that's true yeah what that's the olympic that west has never heard of it that's definitely true i would have thought that west was maybe potentially hamming up this injury a little bit to make sort of a a kirk gibson like appearance tonight in heroic fashion except that you sent a photo of your hamstring and i think it was when i was on vacation and it was grisly it was disgusting yeah it was amazing 10 times worse than that right now well he shows better but it looks worse he showed it to every

everyone at Wesleyania, you were wearing shorts, and it's right there. It looks like you were a gunshot wound, essentially, beneath the surface. I could speak from experience. I had the same injury two months ago, and West coming back on two weeks is a huge risk. Not really. In terms of re-agravating the injury. Oh, okay, yeah. Now, a huge risk for your life, not really.

What are you going to do with your legs anyway at this point? I'm trying to keep expectations low, but yeah, I'm 42 years old. but I'm not risking my career here. This is all I have left to live for from an athletic standpoint is tonight's playoffs. So we have, yes, we have a game, like I said, and then if we win that game, we play the number one seed immediately after. So we have a chance this time and tomorrow to be straight up champions of the Los Angeles Municipal Softball League. So that is the newsroom, Greg, and you could speak to this.

You're right in the middle of it all. There's an energy pulsating through the newsroom. It's buzzing. There's no doubt that the softball team has brought this company together, and it has been rising into a fever pitch for tonight. I question the scheduling of the league. I think you want to take advantage of the buzz going into the finals. If the Shield wins, you want to have some media. You want to get more attention before the finals,

because immediately you have to jump right into the finals. It's getting weird, though, because there are a lot of people coming to watch the game. that have not been to any games. Willie McGinnis, the former all-pro Patriot legend, I was told is coming to the game. The big pal of Wes, he's coming to watch Wes. I believe that one I see it. That one seems that struck me as a little bit odd.

I feel like, I mean, with all due respect to the team out there, I think you can find someone to get out of the lineup, put old Big Willie style in there, batting seventh or something. I feel like that beat cheating. And I'm actually batting seven, so that felt like a shot against me. You know, we've been building the last couple of months. We get better every week, but make no mistakes. We are huge underdogs in this matchup.

Yes, but that hasn't stopped us before, and it's not going to stop us now. So that's going on later today. Today, we have a podcast to do. And even though, yes, maybe our mind is looking ahead to the diamond with Mark Sessler in a front office capacity that's not quite determined, but Mark had a hand in this as well. building this juggernaut. Very minor hand.

Eight and four Shield softball team. So Mark will be there as well. But we have a podcast to get to. And a fun seg. Fun seg coming up today. First time, it is called the debunker bunker bunker. I like it. Yeah, it works.

And what is the debunker bunker? It's a literal physical place we will crawl into a little bit later in the show. and take a look at some popular kind of narratives or preconceptions, perhaps. Conventional wisdom, thank you. In and around the NFL's, we head toward training camp next week. And we'll each take a couple swipes some of this conventional wisdom, stuff that people shouldn't be so confident to assume, because every year you know every single year conventional wisdom looks ugly

by the end of the season in a lot of cases, not all cases, but in many cases. So we'll play a little bit of debunker bunker, hop in that bunker. That'll be fun. And also, you've got a lot of news to get to when we've got to talk about what's going on with Greg Rosenthal, his place in the company. So a lot to talk about. I didn't see that on the budget on the rundown here. But before, right there, boss update. But before we do any of that.

now batting number five the third baseman Brandon McGinnis number five thank you Mr. Shepherd I appreciate that oh very good

not as young as I look right very good very good let's batting first yes lead off the guy has been a stud all season and I fully expected to continue tonight let's do some news playoffs

don't talk about playoffs You kidding me? Playoffs? Was that Damashik? That does sound like them. Let's start with some retirement news. Offensive tackle Eugene Monroe announced on the Players Tribune,

which, you know, speaking of Bob Shepard and the Yankees and Derek Jeter, the Tribune's getting a lot of scoops of late. Is that doing well? I guess it's doing okay. I think it's doing well. Didn't they already sell it for a lot of money? Did they?

Well, anyway. I'm an idiot. Eugene Monroe in an article for the Players Tribune formerly announces retirement Thursday citing concerns over concussions and his long-term health as his primary reasons. The 29-year-old Virginia graduate was a former number nine overall pick by the Jacksonville Jaguars, played 93 games over seven years,

traded to Baltimore back in 2013. Remember, that was a big trade at the time that people said was going to solidify that line for two mid-refer. mid-round picks, then signed a five-year deal. He did not see it to the end of that five-year deal. And now he's walking away from the game. Mark Sessler, your thoughts? Very interesting.

It's just another case of a player under the age of 30 who he said himself that he was completely healthy, walking away. And it's an example of the players of today versus, you know, 25, 30, 40, 50 years ago. They don't need to play into their mid-30s to, you know, have a lot. life after that. And, you know, his situation in Baltimore was certainly tenuous as well. They had Ronnie Stanley and it made it very clear that they wanted to trade him, Monroe or keep Ronnie Stanley in the starting spot. So it was not a great situation. And maybe he just said, enough with this.

Time to go. Well, it's why players want to get that guaranteed money. When he was looking for a big time contract from Jacksonville. He didn't get it. Got the trade to Baltimore. Got that guaranteed money with all the money in the first three years of the deal. He was terrible in Baltimore on balance. He was a disappointment. He was injured and he wasn't that effective when he played. But he got all that guaranteed money in the first three years of his deal. He was ultimately

not worth it. So they cut him. He could have joined the Giants or some team this year for $4 million. But at this point in his life, that wasn't even enough. He had already had enough money to retire off. And he cited the last 18 years. Even though he didn't have any

I don't think known concussion problems. He said the first thing he's going to do is going to go get his brain checked out, essentially. He's going to get mental health assessments and scans, and he's got his money, and he's been a vocal advocate of medical marijuana research to possibly treat all that, and he's moving on because it's too easy not to, I guess, not to play. You can't play in the NFL at a high level unless you are mentally in a place where you're willing to put your body on the line. he's not in that place

and I don't really blame him yeah another player stepping away from the game Charles Tillman the safety who played 13 years made two Pro Bowls won a Walter Payton Man of the Year award

had his best years of course with the Bears he has decided to retire he announced this on YouTube deal with that Jeter and included like a fun little video about the peanut punch which of course

if you had a to break down his game to at least one memorable component, his ability to strip the football, I believe he's the NFL's all-time leader in force fumbles by a safety. So Greg, this is a player of... You were a big fan of Peanuts in his heyday. It wasn't the same player later as injuries piled up,

but he was a special guy at one point. Yeah, great player. When you think of Lovie Smith in that Tampa 2 defense, he's kind of the prototype cornerback. He wasn't a Hall of Fame type player. He did make one all-pro team. I was surprised he had only made two Pro Bowls, but that's a position where he was valued for his physicality

and not giving up big plays. And this stat that I put on Twitter when he retired, I did some research. And the leaders enforced fumbles by defensive back since he was in the league with that peanut punch. He had 44. The next closest was Charles Woodson, who probably is a Hall of Famer, at 23, half as much.

Third over that span was actually Roman Harper at 16. So that's about a third as much as Tillman had. That move that he had was just incredible. It was a difference maker. You mentioned Lovie Smith's defense. Charles Tillman was the last active player from that. Really kind of, it seems an underrated defense now, the 2006, 2007 bears. And I think if you look at that defense, Erlacher would be first.

Then you've got Lance Briggs and Charles Tillman probably battling for the second spot. Tommy Harris was there. Harris and Mike Brown would be like fourth and fifth to me. But yeah, I think Tillman and Briggs were the second and third after Erlocker. Here we go. Moving on. Are we getting closer to Josh Gordon being back on the football field? NFL media insider Ian Rappaport reported that Roger Goodell met with the Browns wide receiver on Wednesday regarding a possible return to football. Rappaport added that no decision appears imminent regarding Gordon who can't even report. for reinstatement until the first of next month.

Gordon, of course, failed another drug test in March, prompting the NFL to deny that application for reinstatement. But meeting with Goodell seems on the surface to be a step in the right direction. We'll see if he's keeping his head on straight and staying away from his friend Johnny. That all seems to be unknown at this point. Mark Sessler. I don't know if listeners know, but Mark is a follower of the Cleveland Browns. Over Under for Games Play, Josh Gordon, in 2016.

and I'll set it at seven and a half. Eight. So over. Over. That's how you play that game. I don't even know where I came up with that. I just don't think the league is in any rush to make this happen in time for it to be convenient for Cleveland's coaching staff. And I don't think Cleveland's coaching staff is necessarily sitting around waiting for this to happen either.

They went out and drafted four wide receivers and a tight end that some consider a wide receiver. So, you know, Josh Gordon, Jim Brown said that he's done all the things that you want him to do, that he talked with him and he seems committed. But everything we've seen is these bizarre photos of Gordon, oh, he's about 10 feet away from Johnny Mansell at some massive pool party in a city he shouldn't be in. So I don't know what evidence, what is he going to tell Goodell? Don't you think that's the first question out of Goodell's mouth? What are you doing hanging out with Manzell? It just shows bad common sense and bad public relations. That's what this is all about.

It's about perception, and Josh Gordon has not done a great job of that in the last six months. It's a reminder, though, that all these, the last time he got in trouble, we were like, oh, this is it for Josh Gordon. Like, how many times have we thought this is it for Josh Gordon? But it's not it. He's meeting with Goodell, and I think the idea is that he's not, he's going to be able to play this year, and I think the Browns will be glad to have him. Do you think it will be, though, in the next month that he's back on the field, or is it going to take another round of tests or certain amount of tests? I think he'll be back in training camp, yeah.

Moving on. Mark, you want to talk about little O'Dell Beckham, offseason chatter? Well, we can. The New York Giants Whiteout told GQ that he, quote, for sure, believes that Josh Norman, the former Panthers cover men, who, of course, you remember Beckham disgraced himself, let's be honest, in week 15 of last year by brawling with Norman in the middle of an NFL game. So a lot of bad blood there. But Beckham says that Norman signed with the Redskins and free agency to, quote, remain relevant, calling it a smart business move. And this is a little more from Beckham.

If I wasn't playing him twice a year, maybe people wouldn't bring it up as much. But now it'll be a lot more media attention for him, attention that I don't really look for. That's funny. Attention I don't really need. The reason that he's become so relevant is because of me. That's, of course, the same Josh Norman that who, an all pro last year, got a five-year, $75 million deal, Wes, with $51 million a guarantee. It's more than just O'Dell Beckham from Josh Norman, right?

Oh, my God. The worst part of this is now we're going to be subjected to Josh Norman's response on NFL HQ Friday morning. Just let it die, guys. Tune in, tune in 7 a.m. That hammer David Ely is going to be coming down on you guys whenever it does arrive, because they want to get that up to the top of the state. Well, this landed on my doorstep yesterday. because suddenly everyone in the business was out, you know, doing whatever they needed to do.

And it was like, oh, we need an O'Dell Beckham piece where he's talking nonsense. And I, listen, I wrote it angry, and that's how I think it came out. I love the last two paragraphs are perfect. That's so, such a Sessler closed to a story, nobody can deny Beckham's talent. He's one of the most electrifying and recognizable athletes in the world today. Hammer about to drop. He's also just the latest pro athlete to waste our time with a tedious. Blast of me first, hot air.

Hot air. This offseason can't end fast enough. This all ties together well, too, because Mark was a little quiet yesterday. He was, you know, keeping to himself. You didn't know what was going on, and this is what was going on. Well, I'm dealing with a lot on the home front, and, you know, it's I just needed the day to be a July 20th, nice little day, get in, get out, go home, do what you got to do. And instead, this thing arrives.

And the whole, here's what bothers me, is. I'm not seeking attention. I don't want it. This is happening in an upcoming issue of GQ that we found out today is attached to one of the most obscene, really ridiculous photo spreads post Mark Sanchez. I mean, give me a break. Well, you're right when you say,

when you said me first in this, I mean, it doesn't get much more myopic to say that Josh, then to say Josh Norman's fame and his contract has to do with Odo Beckham. On some level, Josh Norman is a little more famous because of that fight with, you know, Oda Beckham. But it has nothing to do with the money and it has nothing to do with why he went there. Of course.

He just went with the team that paid him the most. That's the Redskins. I have an idea, by the way. I'll run it by you, Mark, and the crew. I would run it by Greg if he was still the boss, but I guess we have to go through Dave for this. How about Mark? I think you'd like this.

If you have one of your days or you just need to be by yourself, What if we got like a little red light that we put on your cubicle And you flick it on and that means that's a private day for Mark I would like it if it also has the power to emit like a flesh burning laser If anyone gets in my in my grill that I don't want to deal with But that would be like when the light was on people knew at your own peril Is there a limit?

I feel like sometimes there's going to be a whole week It can only be once a month There could be a week Let's put it on a national cycle For it to be fair you have to there has to be a limit to it But if we worked out, even, I'll give it twice a month. Like, you know, you get the like, look it on, and we're like, all right, even you're not on the podcast, you do what you got to do, do whatever you want, and we'll see you the next day. Well, I do think you have to, I have to work through it?

I still have to do the work, but do I need to be, you know, socializing with everyone and, you know, chatting about everyone's little, you know, concerns over the coffee tea party. No. I love that you're being realistic. You're playing ball with this idea. You're like, oh, no, only once a month. We'll talk to Ely about it tonight. Well, it's good for everyone. It's not just good for Mark.

It's good for everyone around him. I think it can improve the whole atmosphere. This is Ely's first test as a boss. I can tell you guys to discuss this offline, as they'd say. No, this is the first time. This is all just came to my head just now. Improv. Moving on, Steel is running back DeAngelo Williams.

Does not mind the Patriots having some issues. Of course, we know those issues over on the throne of Slees. that being of course Tom Brady's four-game suspension is holding up which means that they will be without the all-pro all-timer for four games this season

this is what DeAngel Williams had to say I'm glad they got problems I don't care he told the Pittsburgh Tribune review everybody has their problems and I am glad that they have theirs he added I don't know why everybody thinks that affects us we don't care

you think Big Ben wants to beat a Bradyless team that proves nothing to him that's the truth right West? I mean, it's very true. What do the Steelers care? Every other year, Big Ben misses three or four games with an injury. Leveon Bell misses half the season. Martavis Bryant suspended. They got issues of their own. They don't care what the Patriots are dealing with. I love DeAngelo Williams because he actually dislikes the Patriots. He dislikes the teams that they should dislike. That's more fun when they legitimately care. Why do we need any player who's not on the Patriots to be catering

to them? They've been at the top of the game for 15 plus years. I mean, outside of LaGarrett Blunt, and that was a completely, that was a ridiculous scenario where he left, essentially, you know, acted poorly to get off the Steelers just to get back to New England to get to the Super Bowl. It's been a great little rivalry here. Not little rivalry, but the Steelers, Patriots have been one of the better AFC rivalries over the last 15 years. That's one of the few teams that is taking care of business against Pittsburgh over and over. And if the one team Pittsburgh cannot seem to be. Well, no, it's just interesting. Damasek spouts off about it all the time. And when you're comparing suspensions, Steelers have been hurt more in suspensions this year than the Patriots.

I'd rather have Tom Brady gone for four games than lose Martavis Bryant for the whole season. It's a fair point, dog. And finally, guys, did you happen to see the Russell Wilson Barbershop talk posted on his Facebook page? I haven't never been on Russell Wilson's Facebook. I don't need to, I don't need to because I saw it on end around, NFL.com slash end around. And you know what? What happens there? Dan Hansis breaks it all down for me in a funny way where I don't have to deal with the 28 minutes of Russell Wilson.

27 minutes, 42 seconds. I watched the entire video, which was consisted of Russell Wilson sitting in a barber chair in a trailer on the set of a Bose commercial with his three entourage handlers. sitting behind him, his official barber giving him really, again, a 28-minute haircut in which no hair gets cut. I demand people. It actually works into the theory that Russell Wilson is a cyborg with an endoskeleton with human tissue over the endoskeleton. So he's not going to grow actual hair. It's always going to look that way. That's my theory. So I implore you guys to check out the video purely from a conspiracy angle theory, which I know you like Mark. But as far as the video goes, you know, I was just curious because he, Russell Wilson, let's face it, he gets a lot of crap for being kind of a phony and not quite being a guy that maybe West, not the first guy you'd choose to get a beer with.

I was going to say he's out of anyone probably I've seen in the NFL over the years, least likely to ever get an invitation to Wesleyanian. So with that's a bold statement. I mean, Aaron Hernandez is, you know, in the mix. I wouldn't want to invite him. Wait a second. No, he's not. He's in a pen, maybe. Russell Wilson's not a real person, though.

So I actually went into this video with an open mind. Maybe he's not going to come off so poorly. But I wouldn't say he came off that well. So what I did on NFL.com slash end around, I had my top 10 favorite quotes from Russell Wilson or one of his handlers. And I will now parse that down to the top five lines from Russell Wilson during his 28-minute bar. Barbershop session, number five. Did you guys know we had Earthwind and Fireplay at the wedding?

It's amazing. Did you guys know Earth, Wind and Fire played at the wedding, which was amazing. Number four. Al Pacino, we're still requesting you to come to a game. Yeah. You know, I know we met each other in L.A. Not too long ago, and we're a huge, huge fan. Al Pacino, please come to a game.

I know you're a huge, huge fan. of Russell Wilson, I would assume. I don't know who else he's referring to. Respect. And I like that he assumes that there's a chance Al Pacino is watching his Facebook live post. Number three. Russell, what's the other movies you watch?

I always see watch movies in Microsoft Surface. He'd pause it one second? His manager, and I don't, I can't stress this enough. This was an open mind I went into, but in 28 minutes, they dropped three exact product placements, naming the entire product,

What you heard there, and we'll replay it here, is a reference to a Microsoft service tablet of some kind. He also referenced his Bose headphones that he likes and referenced a specific brand, the Q-35s, I believe they were. So that was the purpose of this video. It's just an ad, but they're trying to trick you into being natural. You think? And then the manager, the manager at one point is bragging that when they go golfing, they break golf etiquette, and they like to bring out their Bose sound link system, which you could hook up easily to your Bluetooth

and get five or six hours straight, play all day. All right, so number three. Russ, what are some other movies you watch? I always see you watch movies in Microsoft Surface when we're flying. Like, what do you put on that? Godfather. Scarface. It doesn't know.

The Wall Street. Scarface is one of the best of all the time. Those are movies I watched recently. Scarface has watched us over and over again. So according to Russell Wilson, he watches Godfather, which is not true, Scarface in the Wolf of Wall Street. Over and over again, he's watching Scarface. I mean, make him maybe a psychopath if you did that as much as you say you did.

Number two. For those who are watching don't know Trevor, he's like my mental coach guy. For those of you that don't know Trevor, he's like my mental coach guy. And number one. Fire Trevor. There's going to be good times, there's going to be bad times. There's no such thing as bad times in my view. They're all just moments, right?

There's going to be good times. There's going to be bad times. There's no such thing as bad times, in my opinion, just moments. He's down in the mud, wallowing, battling Donald Trump for the lowest place. Oh, battling Donald Trump for the lowest spot on the common man rankings. There's nothing. common man about Russell Wilson. There's just everything fake about. Why

Dan was this? I mean, there's so much like snackable content, as they say out there in that ridiculous term. But in general, there's all these videos that we have to choose from. And they're smart with people's attention spans. They're about four and a half minutes long.

And you can get everything you need crammed in that time. Why are they releasing a 28-minute barbershop think piece on video here? Irish, do you have an answer? answer to that? None whatsoever. Like I told you before, I was physically drained after finding all those clips. Wow. And the Irish did a great job doing the pre-production today. My favorite quote was obviously my lovely wife. She loves music as well. I listen to her stuff. You better, baby.

You better. Here's my only defense. Here's my only defense, because I'm getting a haircut today. And the one thing that I think about all the time is, oh, man, like, I don't want to have to talk to anyone during the haircut. Once in a while you get someone cutting your hair, you feel good. You can maybe have a chat. But in general, just cut the hair. Let's get in and out. I'll say hi to you, have a nice time.

Can you make it a half an hour video of this experience? I would never produce. I would hopefully be me being quiet. Why is he doing this as his way to talk? I don't know. Good luck to you, Russell Wilson. Talk to Trevor. He's like his mental coach guy.

Last word to Irish. My favorite quote was, no matter what you're doing, you always have to be here. wherever you are he then contradicts himself later in that and says that as a quarterback who has so many things around me at all times I can't be here

I always got to be looking ahead and then all the people around him are like man that takes such a gift it's so special they're like nodding their head all right that's what's happening in the news NFL Media Corporate Reorg

2016 All right, we're here. It's gone to, it's happened. It's now a segment, the Reorg. Let's hear it again. NFL Media Corporate Reorg, 2016. Now, we know the news by now. It's broken.

Greg Rosenthal has stepped down. Well, you know, I should let Greg speak for himself there because there was a lot of buzz on the subreddit that Greg was perhaps the victim. of some type of demotion or, you know, something along those lines. I'll read one subreddit comment here from a man that goes by Noddy Nugget, Maron, in my corporate life, when a manager gets his staff yanked yet doesn't get assigned to a well-defined role afterwards, he's said to be, quote, in the penalty box.

I have no idea if this is the kind of corporate limbo is what is happening to Greg, but I am concerned since it is a dicey place to be. or maybe he just wants to be in a transitional role. All right, Greg, the floor is here. Why don't you clarify what's going on? I don't even know how to. Well, I did get some tweets saying, was I a victim of some sort of power play

and David Ely is now my boss? First of all, there's no power play. Second, David Ely is not my boss. Third, I'm not in any penalty box. If you had listened to what I said last time, it was about, you know, as Chris and I were saying, heating the call. It was about trying to take advantage of the time left in your life and have a job that you enjoy more, essentially. You know what I mean?

You get a bigger kick out of writing and watching football than going to media. I want to do things that I enjoy, that I love to do that gets me going. Well, you made it crystal clear at the last podcast talk about this, that meetings were not your thing. Meetings were not it. I wasn't overly proud of a lot of. of the articles and things I've been writing over the last few years in particular because, you know, you don't have all the time in the world that you want to put in it. I want to put my time into making good football content. I'm bad at being a manager.

I'm going to try to do this. Disagree. The sand is tumbling through the hourglass, Greg. Well, that's, that really is true. I do think, I do think we've all had, I've been doing this. Are you ill? On some level for 12 or 13 years. It's good to, at some point, you realize kind of.

to what you like doing and what you don't like doing. And if you can at all seek out what you do like doing, go for it. If you start giving away your personal possessions, that's going to be a major red flag. He's like, Mark does? I'm going to use this advice next time David Ely throws an Odell Beckham post my way. Everyone's busy. Sees the day. Anyway, so there you go.

I thought it was important to give you the floor there. And people like, oh, is Greg going to have a new name? a new nickname. My vote is no. I think, you know, maybe the full name is the boss. What is it, Emeritus? Sure.

That's a mouthful. But that's too much. So, I don't know. It's just roll with the boss. How about just Emeritus? I don't know. I think you're known as the boss. You know, unless something great comes along,

I agree with Dan. All right. There's your update. NFL Media Corporate Reorg, 2016. All right, moving on. Is that going to be used again? Are we going to break down different things that have gone on? We might have to clarify Ely's rule at some point.

At some point, at some point. But let's move on for now. And time for our new segment, debunker, bunker, bunker where we take a, how did we put it again? Conventional wisdom. Turn it on its ear. What wisdom? Turn it on its ear. I like that, Wes, and say why, hey, you shouldn't be thinking so conventionally.

What kind of wisdom is that anyway? We'll start with Mark. Dessler, get us going. I want to go to Dan's team, the New York Jets. You know, yesterday. Another New York Jet bloodbath. No, actually, I am going to use something that happened last week as a way to prop up the Jets front office and debunk the idea that some are saying that, you know, Ryan Fitzpatrick's not going to come back.

An unnamed coworker of mine on our in-house slash I-M channel. You can bleep that out. Thanks, Brandon. More work for you? We don't tend to prop up garbage people. More work for you. Suggested that Gino Smith would start 12 games. I just don't agree.

And I'll tell you why, because they are going to get it done with Ryan Fitzpatrick. But isn't that? We're going on. It's kind of conventional wisdom that they're going to get it done. I am going against the one person who says it. It's Greg. All right, it's Greg.

And I'm just, because listen, here's the thing. Because I think you have a Gino Smith thing going on. And maybe it's an anti-Geno Smith thing. I'm going with here a little bit. But my point with Ryan Fitzpatrick is that there is no way the New York Jets want to put Gino Smith on the field after what happened last year. For Ryan Fitzpatrick, listen, I have critiqued him. I think it's fair to say we don't think he's a top 10 quarterback, but he fits in that

offense. They want to see if he can do it again. And not a single Jets insider had any knowledge that they were going to sign Muhammad Wilkerson. Nobody came forth with anything. It came out of nowhere. And so this Fitzpatrick thing is going to happen the same way. Mike McCagnan is not the glacier.

He moves swiftly in the darkness. He's going to get this done in the nick of time. But wouldn't the conventional wisdom is that it's going to be done. I may not have played by the rules of the game. But I got my point across. I'm in the debunker bunker saying that Geno Smith is a guy that they can win with. that Chan Galey is the key to this whole operation and whether you got an average middle of the road quarterback journeyman,

Ryan Fitzpatrick, or you got Gino Smith, you're probably going to be in the same thing. I was simply debunking your point. Let's, yeah, cut to the heart of this. It's a Greg V. Mark thing. I was shocked, by the way, because they were playing a lot of jet stuff on NFL Network on Wednesday, and I was watching it,

and I was reminiscing or getting nostalgic for Fitzpatrick. Patrick, who besides what happens in week 17, was great for them last year at 33 total touchdowns. We've talked about that endlessly. But how many Jets fans? Because I tweeted about missing Fitzpatrick are totally anti-fits now and say everything he did was kind of overrated. That was the overwhelming sentiment from literally dozens of Jets fans

who reached out to me saying you're crazy for pining for this guy because he actually stinks and he got lucky. Is it self-defense, though, for when he doesn't come back? Sometimes I find it hard to really fall into Jet Nation. The fan base is a little crazy to me. But I was legitimately surprised so many people are now on the side of management with this when he had the season he did. Well, Ian Rapport was saying it could go into training camp

and maybe they'll take a look at Gino for a preseason game or two and see how that happens. Because that will tell you what you need to know. I think if they thought there was that big of a gap between Gino and Fitzpatrick, they'd offer, they would have already offered him more. But they also don't have any money to offer. That's like a part of this, too, that people keep overlooking. If the Jets had tons of cap space, this would have been done by now.

Anyway, Wes. I think GroupThink has been the bane of the fantasy football community's existence since the internet became widespread, 20 years ago. But especially since Twitter became a thing starting around 2008, 2009, all the analysts tend to line up behind the same guys or knock the same guys. and I think Devante Freeman, when the Falcons running back coach came out a few weeks ago and said, basically they're going to limit Devante Freeman's touches or take a few touches away and expand Kevin Coleman's role, there's this idea that Devante Freeman just isn't very good. Nobody mentions that the running back coach also said, I expect Freeman to have a better year this year. And I know Greg agrees with me on this.

Devante Freeman is just quite clearly a much better player than Kevin Coleman. And he's the real deal. I don't think Devante Freeman is any kind of one year. wonder. I totally agree. He's really the inspiration for this for this concept of a segment because I was watching Saints Falcons week 17. I don't know. Well, I do know why I was watching that. Humbled back. Recently. And one one thing that stood out, it just reminded me, Devante Freeman's an incredible running back. Like, he is one of those guys that made the leap and then some. And I think he's going to maintain that because he's great. Like his, his ability to make.

make cuts inside a hole, outside of holes, explosiveness, his power, everything. I don't think he got enough credit for just how good he is, and I think he's going to maintain those gains he had last year. I would say also, like, had they had a regime change, maybe this kind of thing comes into play. Kyle Shanahan loved what he saw. He worked well in his system,

and Kevin Coleman had his issues last year. Right. He was just an average looking back, and I don't think Shanahan knew what he had in Freeman, or else maybe they wouldn't take Coleman. Very important point about Shanahan, though, outside of that one year with the Browns, he has always had a one back who produces over a thousand yards with a lot of carries.

To me, he's an incredible player, and I think that offensive line came together relatively. It's not a power-packed pro bowl offensive line, but second year, I think they could run for a team last year. Tevin Coleman, three fumbles last year off 87 carries. I mean, he just, I think it's about trust if you're Kyle Shanahan in year two. you've got to give it to the guy. Freeman's got the trust right now. If I had to pick one of those NFC South running backs,

him or Martin, if you even want to throw Stewart in there, who's not going to back up his breakout year? I think Freeman is a safer bet, just because I think he's that talented in the team around him and everything, to stay close to the level or at or better than the level he was at than Doug Martin. This Falcons offense is going to surprise some people this year, I think. That's another thing that you could find in the Dunker Bunker.

You know, some Falcons are. offense level. I'm just saying that's a debunking notion right there. You're going to find a lot of bottled water? Mohamed Sanoos in the debunker bunker, too. He's going to succeed as the number two there. Find a lot of granola bars. Just a lot of non-perishables. Spam.

Spam. A lot of things loaded with preservatives. You don't know how long you're going to be in the debunkerbunker bunk. Would you rather perish in whatever, you know, earth calamity happened or be eating spam? I would generally have a go-go-on, sir. No, I would rather live. That's a short answer. I don't know if I would. Well, that doesn't surprise me. The last few minutes went against Dan's no Falcons talk on the podcast. That's not true.

That's not true. People don't need to hear me talking all the time. You guys wanted to take your beloved NFC South team. I let you guys do it. Well, you're, you're, you're, I'm just not that excited about Devante Freeman. Oh, we have a smaller workload this year. Is you going to wear down? Down care.

Good luck this season. Well, then I'm going to get to go next. This was going to be my second. Second thing I found in the debunker bunker. Get excited about your 8 and 18. All right. Well, this was going to be my second thing in the debunker bunker, but it's right what you're talking about.

You know, the conventional wisdom is the NFC South. By the way, Greg loves this segment because he is the ultimate contrarian. He loves to get in that bunker, his own personal bunker. Well, we got into it because he suggested we should go around twice. And I said, no, just once. We'll see who won. We did not get it. All right.

Enjoy yourself, Greg. Go ahead. You skipped me to go yourself. excited. Go ahead. Because it was coming, it was part of the natural flow of conversation here. No,

I'm happy for you. The NFC South is the most exciting division in football going into the year. Wow. What? Can you sell us on that? You got the best quarterbacks, first of all, the best collection of quarterbacks, James Winston, Drew Breeze, Matt Ryan, and Cam Newton. You're not going to find a better one to four.

One of the most exciting young quarterbacks in Winston, Drew Breeze, who played at a higher level, I think, than people realized last year, Ryan certainly needs to get better. Cam Newton, the MVP. All of these teams in an interesting spot. Carolina is trying to make that leap, not just from being a dominant number one seed last year that made the Super Bowl. They're trying to get to where the Patriots and the Seahawks, you want to throw the Packers in there as one of the teams that's great.

Annual superpower. Annual superpower. That's where they're trying to get. And they've got the players and the defense to do it. Then you got New Orleans, which I'm starting to feel a comeback from the Saints this year. This room, I believe, I'll pick the Saints to win the division except me, who was wrong. I had the Falcons. All of us were wrong.

This feels familiar, by the way. I'm saying I think the Saints, they got a lot going on. They're an interesting team, but they are at a weird spot. They have Sean Payton, and it feels like a franchise, along with the Falcons, that have been together a while. The front office has been there a while. If things don't go well for one of these two teams, the whole thing could be blown up, and it could be as ugly as it could be. So there's a lot of pressure on those two teams, especially.

But I think there's a lot of talent on those two teams to surprise you. Then you have the Buccaneers who, you know, we haven't spoken a ton about. But just James Winston's presence and the young talent there, I think, is interesting. Top to bottom. Top to bottom. I think that's the most exciting division of football this year. Can we go stay in the debunker bunker bunker? Whoa.

Sure. Debunk Greg's debunk. Go for it. Wait, can two guys be in the debunker bunker, debunking each other? Well, there's going to be three of us in here. I feel like there's going to be some, you know, cannibalism or something going on here. I feel like Greg's definition of exciting football includes no defense whatsoever. Oh, that hits Greg hard because he prides himself on loving the game, all sides.

The Carolina Panthers have Kwan short. They have a secondary that does this year after year. Well, I said the most exciting, and you don't necessarily have to have three great defenses to be exciting. I also think there's a lot on the line this year for all these teams. Someone's going to get left out. Either the Falcons, Saints, Panthers, one or two of those teams are going to be really disappointing. I think we're going to have some interesting storyline. My problem

a little bit is that I look over at the AFC in all four divisions to me are more exciting than the NFC South. I accept your point that the Panthers are a fascinating team. Oh yeah, the NFC South. The race to nine wins. What, the AFC South, right? But everything, but we, I believe

which is another thing people could debunk is that the AFC South has a lot going on. I think it's a lot of this year. You're talking about a division with two dome teams, and when you watch Tampa Bay on Game Pass, the sunlight on that field is hideous to watch. So it's three teams that are an eyesore on television. The Panthers are fascinating.

I don't dislike NFC South teams, but that is a bit of a stretch. We'll see if you're right. Is that the first ever sunlight shot? I've mentioned that to West, that watching the bucks on game pass are tough because it's just an ugly field from the up above angle. Not to mention their uniforms, which are the worst in professional sports. But you've long loved that division, and I like that you're sticking up for it, Greg.

To me, it's like two teams, the Falcons and Saints are the picture of mediocrity in the NFL right now. The Buccaneers, they had such a free fall. They aspire to beat a picture of media. No, right. To me, they have great potential. They have both have been really good very recently,

and because of that, they could get, you know, Thomas Demetrov could get fired, Sean Pagney. A lot of things have to go right for these teams to have nice. Nothing puts a bouncing Greg step, like the chance of a guy losing his job. All right. I'm going to go, and I don't want to get things out.

Well, you're not really on the Ryan Tannahill bandwagon anymore, right, Greg? Or are you back on? He just wrote an article saying why he was going to do great this year. Are you back on now? Oh, that's right. I'm not driving it, but I'm in the back seat thinking everything around him is solid. You're like Oscar Zeta Acosta and Hunter S. Thompson's driving it. And, you know, handsome Hank is going to get mad at me, even though he's overseas right now.

maybe not listening because he's always saying I'm taking shots of the Dolphins. But it's nothing personal. I've heard a lot of Andy Dalton comparisons when talking about Ryan Tannihill this off season. I think you were one of them, Greg, or maybe you were the leader there. And I just... I feel like... I go on. I just read Jay Adjai said, listen, I had to listen to your dribble about the NBC South.

So you can listen to mine. Jay, Jai says looking forward to a dominating season from Ryan Tannahill. And I get it. Jarvis Landry is a great player in Devante Parker. has got plenty of talent. Kenny Stills is useful. Laramie Tunsell, maybe solidifies that line. But I'm the Adam Gase, of course. Now you've got better coaching. Everybody calmed down, though, about this, this Ryan Tannahill Freedom Tour. I need to see, just like a lot of this room needed to see Andy Dalton get over the hump. You're on the other side of this. Now I'm on the other side. I need to see Ryan Tannel be anything other than the 17th or 18th best quarterback in the NFL.

A lot of people seem to be ready to put him in the top 10. It's very generous 17 to 18. Right, Greg. What was your shot you were going to take in me? I feel like Mark and Dan have made this segment. Let's take a trip to Greg's previous trips to the debunking bunker. Because it's not like there's a lot of people out there talking up rides to the Dolphins this year. That is not conventional wisdom that the dolphins are going to be cool.

Tana Hill's buzzy. You don't think he's buzzy? Maybe I'm wrong. I thought he was a little buzzing. I think it's the minute Adam Gase got attached to Tanna Hill. There is that angle to it over and over that we're going to see an improvement because he finally. finally has good coaching, and I think that's actually true myself. I think Greg should take this as an exceptional compliment that you guys think that he drives

that much of the discussion in the football. He leads the football competition. Greg is in our life like 60 hours of week. Of course I hold his opinions high. They're all around me. Mark's felt a little personal toward you. Mine was not. I didn't even mention his name.

Someone else mentioned that it was great. I think we know what happened with the Gino Smith. I honestly. We had a little interaction downstairs about something. I was fresh out of ideas. And then Mark thought, what can I come up with to come at Greg? That is not accurate. I did not even use Greg's name.

You used it, Dan. The best you could come up with with Gino Smith, which isn't even my quarterback, it's a bit at some point, and it's Dan's quarterback. Let's pull back the curtain a little bit here. And where this all started, all this animosity, was that Greg is planning on writing a fantasy column at some point this summer. And he was brainstorming, spitballing, and threw out there a possible name of the column, the fantasy football outsider, which is the very name of Mark Sessler, at least his role,

when we have our fantasy extravaganza. And Mark snapped at Greg over it. Well, I'll hold on. Okay. West accurate. 100% true. There are. Nicky Davis here.

Two points. And then Greg, I'll give you, I'll let you come back at me. I won't see another word. But number one, fantasy football outsider by the guy that started Rhodes. photo world gotcha number two there are like thousands upon thousands of words in the english language and those are the two that you attach together for your column your turn retort the idea behind the column was all i was talking about i have no title for the column i just was throwing it out i wasn't think that that obviously was not going to be the title of the column once i actually thought

about it i was the oh wait that's marks that's mark's segment that's like the The idea, it doesn't even totally make sense. You're right. It's kind of like when the- Come up with another name for it. But the idea is definitely not making the same sort of analysis that you make on your fantasy outsider corner. What about debunker, bunker?

Right. It's essentially debunker, bunker for fantasy. That's why this came up to begin with. The fantasy debunker. It's kind of like the hot jock that's friends with like the average Joe. And then the average Joe has a crush on like the bookish cute girl in the study hall. and the hot jock who could have any girl dates the bookish cute girl from study hall

and then the normal guy's like Brad you could have any girl why don't have to be her that's what you're taking the fantasy outside man that is the perfect analogy thank you by the way my part on the fantasy show is about eight seconds long so you can know that little tiny little parcel of information I'm going to give needs to keep it's that's coming up by the way the fantasy football extravaganza oh put down the chisel Irish. We just had that in the system. Well, you know, our plan was, but I had to move all these fantastic, high-octane Russell Wilson

quotes on. All right. Greg, are we back in a good place? I think we are. We're in a great place. I mean, the second I said it, I was like, oh, that was stupid. I'm obviously not going to call my column that. I'm going to call it some other name. I want to point one thing. In every situation, because in that case, too, Dan got in there and stirred the pot, just like when I didn't mention your name, Dan stirred the pot. Dan's the best potter in the best job here.

That's my only worth. You are very active in your job. That is true, but even without Dan's help, there was an edge coming from this Cessler desk. Yeah, usually I'm pouring what I hope is a subtle amount of kerosene on the blaze. In that case, I literally just said this is what happened downstairs this morning. Well, I'll admit. You sat back and watched the conflagration. Some people just like to watch the world burn.

We should have had that red light on his desk this morning. All right. Good side, guys. Wait until we don't get to go around again. Oh, we're doing it twice? Yeah, Greg wanted to go around. All right, speed round, speed round. Here we go.

And Sessler. All right, this idea that Carson Wentz is going to sit out for long periods of time. We've been through this with multiple rookie quarterbacks. It was a couple months ago that Eagles' offense coordinator, Frank Reich, said his aptitude is off the charts. John DiPhilippo, QB coach. He's further along from seeing the field standpoint than I thought he would be. This is Philadelphia. He's the first round pick.

If that team is not roaring out to a huge star with Sam Bradford, they're not going to sit there with Carson Wentz, red-shirting deep in November. Nonsense, he'll play sooner than anyone thinks. Wes. That's a hot take. I like it. This idea that Jeff Janice is going to springboard off his one fluky playoff performance and become the Packers number three receiver, not buying it one bit.

He is a physically talented but technically deficient wide receiver. Can't rely on those guys. The only reason he was on the field to catch that bomb is because Devante Adams and Ty Montgomery were hurt. Packers' coaching staff has been and continues to be higher on Devante Adams and Thai Montgomery than Jeff Janice. It wasn't just one, by the way. Got open twice.

He had 100 yards receiving on one possession. But, all right, we'll see. People say Ayrod doesn't trust him. Todd Gurley, everyone, and this is a little fantasy football teaser, a lot of talk. He's saying, take me number one. Everybody said, oh, got to take him top three. I'd say pump the brakes a little bit on Todd Gurley He might be on a truly terrible offense

And I don't know if especially if Jared Gough has a long way to go And we know Jeff Fisher is not the most gifted offensive mind in the game There is a chance that Todd Gurley is talented as he is Get stuck behind a truly wretched offense And this has to be pushed back a year before he becomes Todd Gurley all pro MVP candidate Young offensive line It is a great test because I'd

I think his talent is so exceptional can he overcome. They don't really have wide receivers. They don't have a great dominant line. They have invested a lot in the line. We have not heard. We talked, I don't know if we can say who it was, but we heard some negative things about Goff's development and through the spring that they might throw him into the fire when he's not ready.

And that could go Ryan Leithbad. I'm just saying, Greg. Gurley was the first running back. Ryan Leap. But just that, let me clarify. bit much. Before Rams fans come after me. He's going to be put into the game before he should be in the game and it could hurt

his development. So if any of the, our social department is listed. Exactly. I can see it now. Gough equals leaf. Yeah. Dot, dot, Dan Hansis. Yep.

RIP mentions. Really? Gurley, the first running back taking in that draft. Second one, Melvin Gordon. And I'm telling you, if you're out there, spice rack, don't give up on this guy. I think Melvin Gordon is going to come back in his second year and he's going to be strong. Might not be the best running back in the league, but he's a good running back. I think their offensive line, which was absolutely terrible last year, is looking pretty good on paper.

If they're healthy, I think they're a good looking offensive line, a good passing game. I think Melvin Gordon is not going to be the best running back in league, but he's going to get over 1,000 yards. He's going to be a good player, and he showed some of that if you really watched him running hard towards the end of last season. All right, there you go. let's all exit the debunker, bunker. Good word, guys. It got a little hairy in there. I'm not going to say feelings are hurt, but it got pretty intense.

It was cathartic. It was cathartic. We all came out of it with a better understanding where we were as people, and we shared some opinions. That's it for Thursday's edition of the Round of the NFL podcast. We will be back Monday. Three shows next week with Training Camp. Training Camp starts next week?

It starts next week. Training Camp Live starts an NFL network, by the way. Check that out. Hubba, Hub. Wednesday I think it gets cranking so Wednesday so we've reached the end of the dark period and that means we are back to work in a

full-time capacity so make sure you check it out Monday check us out at nfl.com slash podcast go to the iTunes page and leave reviews and high star ratings give us the support oh yeah leave the reviews

the review number overall we got to get it into the quadruple digits it's in the 900 somewhere hashtag it's almost embarrassing not to be in the quadruple days let's do it iTunes challenge help us out everybody that's it this is Dan Hansis signing off for quiet storm not so quiet today the mailman the boss and the Irishman behind the glass till Monday Is fantasy real? You be the judge.

I am your judge. I say the future is ours. This is an I-Heart podcast.