NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - The Most Interesting NFL Defenses of 2025

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal and old friend Ollie Connolly (readoptional.substack.com) join forces to discuss 10 of the most interesting NFL defenses heading into the new football season. From an established defensive unit in Minnesota to budding juggernauts in Seattle and Green Bay, the duo provides in-depth analysis and commentary on players, coaches and schemes that are set to impress in 2025. (0:00) - Start (4:14) - Miami Dolphins (9:40) - Minnesota Vikings (17:29) - Seattle Seahawks (24:28) — Green Bay Packers (31:30) — San Francisco 49ers (35:19) — Houston Texans (37:43) — Pittsburgh Steelers (41:55) — Cincinnati Bengals (44:15) — Arizona Cardinals  (46:53) — Baltimore RavensNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to NFL Daily, where the rumors aren't true. I'm not taking over for Shannon Sharp on first take. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm here in a whole new world for NFL media. And I'm so happy to be talking to the man who I stole that joke from, basically.

Ali Connolly reporting from across the pond. You know, what a great day for you to be on. The day after ESPN and NFL media announced a large and confusing partnership. Yeah, it's got me me and then Stephen A. And then they got the WWE over at the worldwide leader. or Roman Raines will come on after me. What a great time for you. I have gotten a lot of questions like NFL Daily's here.

NFL Daily is not going anywhere. We are excited about everything coming up this season and next season Jordan's locked in and it's going to be fun. So I don't think this season there's going to be any changes to your NFL Daily programming for everyone out there and beyond we're feeling good about it. But yeah, I don't think I'm getting that chair next to Stephen A. I don't even think I can get Lenny's chair, you know, in the Mena Kine show, and he doesn't have a speaking role.

So you're stuck with me here, and I'm excited to have you on, Ollie. We're going to dive deep. This show is the most interesting defense show. And by that, I just mean a defense you want to talk about. It's not necessarily a prediction who's going to be the best, although I did pick some of the better ones, but some are not. Just ones that we find fascinating in the year 2025, partly inspired by a great people. piece you wrote about on your substack that everyone should sign up for, check out Ali Connolly, and he's back doing the podcast also with John Ledyard.

You wrote about the influence that Rex Ryan has had over this generation of defenses. And you said something to me. Like, you got a lot of feedback from this, I think, around the league. And it's funny how Rex Ryan has actually maybe become like an underrated figure in recent NFL history. Yeah, I think is purely because of the caricature and how it ended as a head coach and people will just throw foot jokes at me all the time. And I don't think they've quite seen the, I think everyone is well aware of the blitz-centric stuff in the league, maybe some of the more granular stuff around simulated pressures and all these kind of buzzwords

people use. And that was all Rex's creation. Even Saban will go and say every single thing I took at Alabama stems somewhere down the line from Rex. Right. And if you just go through all the staffs of the best defenses in the league. All of them have someone with an association to Rex down to all the madcap stuff Brian Flores is doing. He gets Mike Petton. You go and see what Vance Joseph does and how he changes the Broncos defense. It's Jim Leonard, a guy who played under Rex and will give Rex the credit for all the

innovative stuff he did at Wisconsin. So just on and on the line, even guys like Fangio, as the league kind of moved and evolved into this pressure and disguise world that we see defensively, just when it said, well, what's the one thing I can at least take from Rex, where it's like big picture ideology or the specifics of game planning and specific structures, they've just robbed the guy blind and he gets absolutely zero credit for it because he's kind of confusing and weird and just looks like he's checked out of the game when he talks on your new boss's main network over there, I guess. And so it's made in this kind of like laughable figure rather than the laudable guy

I think who should be right on, you know, up there on the Mount Rushmore of defensive guys in the modern age. Yeah, we're talking, you know, specific defenses. So it's not just about trends in the league. But I think if you, when we're talking about them, you'll see that influence in some of the more creative, maybe even Gonzo type defenses. Yeah, it does get you thinking about those old Jets teams. And I should have mentioned the name, of course, before, of your substack and the podcast. Check out Ali Connelly's read optional. Like, look, ESPN's coming on board. They said, we're going to be investing more in NFL net. We're going to have more resources, more, you know, the podcast. So, you know, I'm trying to get Ali Connolly hired. I've been on that.

road for a year without exact success. But so the best thing we can do is at least sell some substacks and sell some subscriptions because that podcast is outstanding. Why don't you get started? You can pick any team you want, most interesting defense, and we'll just go back and forth picking teams. Most interesting one I think for me is maybe the dolphins. Mm, wow.

Slightly confusing reasons, which I think they have this outstanding defensive coordinator, the potential to have, if healthy, and that's a major riff with those guys up from one of the best fronts in the league, and then it's an absolute disaster class on the back end. And I think the GM could undo everything that could be great about this unit. That sounds like a lot of the last 15 years of the Dolphin's history. Not just blaming it all on Chris Greer, but more like the coach and the GM not always on the same page.

You think back, we're going to get to Flores, but you think back of how his tenure ended. they won eight of their last nine games with Brian Flores as head coach. And Stephen Ross, the ownership, you know, said it right after the season when he fired him. The reason was that he was essentially not getting along with the front office, which included ownership, but also the GM, Chris Greer and maybe some of his coaches. He ran through coaches. He was not faultless there.

I think he changed offensive play goals five times in five weeks from memory. He made some mistakes. I think you could be better a second time around. That's another topic. But yeah, it's a little bit endemic. And you mentioned a good defensive coordinator. Kind of what did you see out of year one? We had Anthony Weaver on the show, actually, in the middle of last season.

And, yeah, he's a fascinating guy in terms of what he runs. Do you think he'll be able to run what he wants with a back end that, yeah, cornerback one, I guess, is Storm Duck. And quarterback two is Jack Jones, I guess. Mike Hilton's in the slot. You did bring Minka Fitzpatrick back. It's a weird group. But the front, the defense.

offensive line, I think people have kind of forgotten with Jalen Phillips and Bradley Chub coming back from injury is pretty awesome. So there is potential there. What did you see out at Weaver specifically in how he might use this group? Yeah, Weaver just lifted up Mike McDonald's defense in Baltimore, which he helped build, dropped it in Miami as a lot of these teams are trying to do right with Donard Wilson in Tennessee and elsewhere around the league, some of what's happening with Minter with the charges. And it's probably the most successful like replication of it we've seen. That's the best defense Mike McDaniel has had. And I think gets lost in the shuffle since he's been there with all the injuries and all the

caveats of that stuff with a horrific mistackle rate last season and so it's all the exact same Baltimore stuff which is let's be as malleable and multiple upfront as possible every single kind of body type of past rush or defensive lineman you can have we can attack you in all kinds of different ways and on the back end it's disguising and rotating and just trying to get a vision on the ball so when you get these unusual unorthodox guys bringing pressure to the quarterback he's just throwing at the spots in the field hoping for the best and you try and generate turn of us that way. And that to me is the real confusing thing with what they did in the offseason, which is everything that they're about is vision on the ball. That's like the main

thing in the defensive backfield. And you come away with Jack Jones and Mike Hilton, who are just like classic nuisance bump and rum, old hand vets. Playmakers, Ollie, they're playmakers. Come on. Where are the playmakers? Outside of Minka, which I think is a good pickup because Ramsey was leaving anyway, probably the best they could do from there. Storm Duck is the one that makes me really cackle. He's like getting a lot of hype and I truly believe his name was like Richard Smith. No one would care. This is an undrafted for agent from a year ago who got fried when he was on the field in meaningful snaps. He has a fun name. He's a cool guy. But other than that, Cam Smith is still here for reasons that remain unclear. He might not make the team. Yeah, a second round pick

from a couple of years ago. Just hearing the camp reports, it doesn't sound great for him. No, I think one of the only reasons he's there, he's really good friends with Chris Gray's son. And it's like, well, we drafted him in the second round. We'll keep him around. That was supposed to be your kind of like zone-based vision on the ball, playmaking corner, it's being a disaster. Even the safeties they brought in in Melophon, and Davis, Melophon was a converted corner again, more can play in the slot and play man coverage for you, Davis more of a run-down enforcer. And so you're left relying on Jack Jones, not I see it, you know, trigger it zone corner.

Jason Marsh of Margaret, not a see-it trigger at zone corner. And so you've built, not just that you've not put the resources into the group, you've brought in people who in no way represent or fit what this. really excellent defensive coach just trying to build. And yet, I hear all that, and you're in your right. And I love hearing that what you're saying about Jack Jones because, you know, I see Jack Jones and I think about, well, what about that? What about that play against the Chargers?

That was a play. That was him making a play. Like he's had some big time plays, but his strengths not fitting with this scheme, I think, is so endemic of what's plagued the Dolphins organization really for the last 15 years. And it's continued in this Mike McDaniel era. And yet, you know, just for people that are kind of tuning in now and, haven't been as locked in. Look, Jalen Phillips, when he's been healthy and he's coming off two major injuries,

is a incredible pass rusher. Bradley Chubb, I don't think you can expect him to be at his peak. But if he is your third rusher with Chop Robinson, who finished last year, like a hair, you know, with his hair on fire, like big time playmaker, they just gave Zach Seeler some well-deserved money. And then you draft Kenneth Grant, who's an interesting guy in the middle in the first round. That is a lot of talent. And you have Jordan Brooks at linebacker who was good for them.

and Tyrell Dots, and they brought in, like, there are players here. So I like you picking them as interesting. They were not on my long list. But you're right. They are. I don't want to just pick the best defense. But actually, I'll just move forward then. I will pick the Vikings because of the connection here.

But just like, it would be wrong, I think, not to mention them. And the Vikings are in this interesting place. Could they have the next spags in that because Brian Flores' tenure in Miami ended with him essentially fighting with ownership? And then more importantly, frankly, I want to believe in a world where NFL owners and GMs look past the lawsuit, you know, the lawsuit between Brian Flores in the NFL. And there was like a little more buzzed last year that he could get some head coaching interest, but obviously it didn't happen. I'd like to think he's going to get another chance because you would think he's matured and learned some things maybe about how to run the entire team in offense. But in the meantime, Ali, he's now entering year three with like a wild combination of talent that he can coach up and continuity of guys that understand his system.

Josh Mattelis, who I know you love, said like they feel like they're entering the graduate level of the program with Brian Flores. And in a way, the Vikings are benefiting from the fact that he can't get a head coaching job anymore. And it just makes them, to me, must watch on Sundays. all season long this year yeah they're always the most fascinating because you never know what he's going to do from season to season week to week he's an absolute lunatic and i say that in the most respectful loving way he does things that are like a hundred year old orthodoxy he's like i don't care about any of that that stuff is nonsense he's the only true like or tear artist we have in defensive football right now oh i love it feels from everyone else and this guy just views it completely

differently and kevin o'connell to his great credit says brian doesn't need to interact with anyone else in the building. That's not his strength. He can go down the corridor and do all his crazy stuff and we'll release him to the hounds on Sunday and let him go have some fun. I think that is probably the best way to approach Flores. I do think he has matured and he's maybe softened ever so slightly. But I don't think just battling with ownership is the issue at the end there. It's battling with all of ownership, every single owner in the league. I think is probably more of the issue we'll have moving forward. But yeah, to what you said, the continuity they have now and what he's able to do, they change the nuances of their system.

more than anyone else in the NFL week to week in terms of how they get to what they want to get to. That is so impossibly difficult to do to have all the players XQ that, to even dream up some of the stuff he does. And then by the middle point of last year, it was when he was kind of flipping back and forth between two completely different styles

and structures of defense game to game. I don't even know how they pulled it off. So now to have an extra year in that where there will be new layers, new things we've probably never seen before, and they can flip between all three different iterations that defense no matter the week with all the subtleties within it.

I just don't know how you can keep up with that. And now he could just say, my new innovation is I have a dominant down four and I'll just let those guys roll. All the other stuff is out. And people will still be scared of me because of Brian Flores effect. They'll still be wondering what's going to happen.

But I can just let Greenard and Allen and Hargrave and the new guys all roll off the ball. Yeah, you mentioned those new guys. And I do love the idea of Brian Flores as the last trueuteur as a coach. He's like the Paul Thomas Anderson. He's just in the middle of his like, run of like magnolia and why am I blanking on the name of the Adam Sandler movie Punch Drunk

Love and like he is in the middle of his absolute prime there will be blood coming up and there will be blood so they're um just to remind people what this defense looks like there's kind of who I would define as like the Vikings specials like they're really great players but I think they're better because they're with the Vikings and they have that continuity continuity. And that's kind of what I was talking about before. I would throw Josh Mattelis in that group who's a safety, defensive back hybrid. Harrison Smith, to me, is kind of in that group now because he's clearly more effective with Flores than he was with the last regime, at least his last couple of years there. Like, Ivan Pace is a crazy

just piece to throw out there. Blake Cashman has been really great for Minnesota. Andrew Van Ginkle is a talented player who is very good in Miami and has been doing great with the Vikings. And Byron Murphy is someone who has said out loud, like, man, that first year was tough to adapt to everything they wanted me to do. And now, like, looks like a cornerback one. And so there's that group of guys. And then there's this group of, you mentioned, Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen, two of the better defensive interior guys will see what they have left, like hired guns.

And this edge group that's just really talented. Van Ginkle's in that group, too, but Jonathan Grenard, and they have a first round pick in Dallas Turner that you're hoping you can get something. So it's like this mix of the guys that have been there and just pure talent and Flores can unleash it all. And I love everything that you said about. He doesn't have to be as crazy because now when he does want to get crazy out of nowhere with like a second half game plan in week three, like they won't know what's coming. Yeah, and it all has this force multiplying effect.

His kind of great asset is understanding every single kind of protection, putting something on the field to set it for the offense. So he knows you have to be in that protection based on look at my defense. And I now have the pressure path or stun or twist to break the thing down. Just by design, it's going to get broken down. when you have talented one-on-one players, it's just more effortless to do that. You have to look less investment in the front to be able to do that kind of stuff. And so both the four-man rush will be amplified when they all bail out,

when they mug everyone up and they bail out. And then when they do some heat, again, you just have got design one-on-ones across the board. So I don't see any way there's like a fall down to worth in any sense. I just think they're too smart, too savvy. Now they've just got a way higher floor because the talent base is just way great and it used to be. Even guys, Ivan Pace is not like a technically good linebacker,

and I can't think of anyone more perfect what Pratton Flores wants to do, which is a guy who just makes everyone panic. The first step is so electric. Everyone is terrified at all times. And so now that you have, I think, even the rotation down the depth chart,

Dallas Turner could barely get on the field last year, completely confused on what to do. Who knows what he could look like they're saying they're going to move him around a whole bunch more this year and he's going to be one of the thumb pieces for Florida. So they just have an unbelievable level of depth and continuity and now the guys they've added on only improved the places where they're already strong honestly yeah and it'll help out j j j mccarthy i think the schedule too early in the season

is relatively favorable if they can be a defensive first team he they don't have to be as aggressive on offense it also gives the potential finally of the jeff akuda renaissance i still have you ever given up on jeff no no i am going down my island is sinking i still have beach from property as the waves are laughing up on the shore. Mina's the only one that I also have heard. I think she maybe has given up, but he is only 26 years old. And I don't know if you've been tracking this,

Ali, but the camp reports have been really solid that like it's actually not a battle. He's just going to be their starter. And if anyone's going to turn his career around, maybe it's Brian Flores. I have been a beloved believer for a long time. This does happen with him in every camp he goes into because he's just like picture built from a lab pro cornerback.

we'll see when the real bullets start flying if you can say healthy too but i will i will never give up on kuder at this point and he's one of those plays where when you're about to give up but then he gets the sign off from brian flores you go okay brian knows way more football than i do i'm back in hey i'm a great example never give up on your main loves because it could it could take like eight seasons and then gino smith finally gets his chance and you get to plant that flag and enjoy it as much as possible yeah i would recommend like it was your brian flor i don't know what week it was you You and John did a Brian Flores episode in the middle of last season that to me was like, was peak read optional.

I was like, these guys are operating at another level. People should be listening to this, the Brian Flores episode. People check that out. All right, give me another interesting defense for this year. I think the Seahawks, my take is I think they're going to be the best unit in the league by the end of the season. So many issues to start last season. You got Mike McDonald comes over, the big name off the market.

Everyone's trying to replicate what he's doing. anyway he gets to seattle he's like i'm going to try all this stuff none of it works all the stuff he brought from baltimore completely failure falls on its face early on he spends six seven weeks of the season changing his front every single week desperately trying to find anything that will work and then as he kind of pulls away elements of his traditional system they start to take off they simplify things they get better and by the end of this season i thought they were playing at really high level they had a ton of communication issues ernest jones i think was responsible for some of that because he came in late obviously and so that stuff i think will get

cleaned up within the rough season they've got a ton of continuity and i think going into the year one he just realized i got a ton of one-on-one talent and difference makers that i maybe didn't have off the edge in baltimore and then i can start adding in more of the mike macdonald fun stuff in a way i maybe tried to put too much of it into the fold early on last season so now we just get our base defense is really talented and then i can kind of scheme my way through to elevate it slightly yeah you mentioned ernest jones and it was interesting i think it was july i think it was Julian Love on Mina's podcast, by the way, that he kind of explained, not trying to throw anyone, he said it very gently, but Ernest Jones helped when he arrived because the previous

linebackers really, I just didn't think understood the concepts. And the Seax kind of told you what they thought about that when they traded, like a big pre-Asian pickup Tyrell Dodson in the middle of the season. So I think they feel better about the linebacker position than certainly they did a year ago. They have a second year guy in Tyrese Knight who also get some snaps. But, you know, what's fascinating to me is how the coverage and the front match up with this team, because there is a lot of talent in both spots, especially the front. It's just so deep. And I'm trying not to fall for the thing of just like, man, just like a lot of names I like. How can you not like a defense with DeMarcus Lawrence and Leonard Williams on the same team? And then you do

have some younger players like Boymafe, and we'll see if a Cheninuoso gets healthy in terms of the edge guys. But there's a lot of like really smart football players. And And yeah, you hope it's that combination of continuity and talent that arrive in year two, kind of like, you know, they did in Baltimore for Mike McDonald because it took a little while for it to get going there too. Yeah, and it's a weird one because I understand what you're saying about that the guys couldn't pick up a linebacker, but the system is purposely built to be kind of idiotproof. That's how Mike McDonald does what he does.

He approaches defensive football the same way the offensive guys do, where it's, I'll run the same stuff over and over again. we just package it slightly different. So everything is really easy to teach. And I don't have, you know, like Spagnola or Vance Joe's who have 15, 20 different pressures for every single front and everything that could get thrown at them. McDonald isn't built that way.

He's like, these are the three for the week. We'll dress it up eight different ways. So it looks different to everyone else. So it's really easy to get across. They just had no communication between linebacker level and the front. Even when Ernest Joe and Scott there, I actually thought that it was kind of an easy out for everyone to write during the season. Like, well, he arrived.

They got better. Whereas if you watch them play, he was constantly all over the place communicating poorly, particularly to the front. He was really good on the ball and impacting the game, particularly in coverage, but actually getting people lined up was a real issue for them last season. So just being able to be in the right spots, maybe being able to roll out more of the old Baltimore system, I think, will help. But they would, they finish fourth in pressure rate anyway.

And they weren't running an awful lot of the McDonald's stuff by the end of the season. So I think they can just go out and play base football and hammer people, honestly. And then if they can sprinkle some new stuff on, that's be the way they get to that more elite level. Yeah, the biggest question to me is kind of the secondary, the boomer bus nature of it. I think we know who Devin Witherspoon is. You know, he's a great young player. But you think of Rik Wullen and you think of their draft pick Nick Imanwari,

who they drafted to kind of be a safety linebacker hybrid, whatever he is going to be. And those two guys have a very high ceiling and they might have a low floor. And then the depth behind them kind of at the other outside corner spot. Like right now, it's just. Josh Job in training camp and they're kind of searching a little bit there that the secondary just feels like a little boom or bust potentially for me.

Like what do you think about that that group in general? I agree with you. I do think that the way they play is really just like C-ball, get ball, which should make it easier for everyone else. And having Witherspoon means you can do some funky coverage stuff that can kind of correct an awful lot of issues for you. And Emin Worry just feels perfect to me for the first year. You may not be where we need you to be

in terms of all the different stuff we want to do, but as a guy who is just like, head down, charge ahead. You know, I think that he can have an impact for him. So there's some concerns there, but if you just go throughout the league, every single depth shot you look at, you go, what, the cornerback room does not look so strong. I've been trying to find who with the back and the roster guys who made be trade for, you know, who are going to get cut and it's worth giving them a shot, a draft busman

that flamed out. It's really difficult to find. All these teams feel one or two guys shy. Yeah, you're reminding me of a point. I was listening to a team-specific podcast. I always want to give a shout out to who I'm, like, getting this. some of this information from. It's called Blue 58. And the host of it does a great job. It's just one guy talking about the Packers. And they were talking about possible concerns of, you know,

what could be their problem this year. And he was talking about the kind of offensive line depth, you know, especially county on these guys like Belton and Jordan Morgan are their first guys off the bench, but they really don't know if they're good or not in some of the depth in the secondary too. And I'm just thinking, that's every team. Actually, the Packers can we have like, Literally, there's not a team that feels good. I was like, you've got high drafted picks with a little bit of experience as your backups. That's actually a plus because there is no team out there that feels good. And you're absolutely right at the cornerback position.

We went long a little bit there. We've only hit three teams so far. We're going to take a quick break. And it's why I don't think I'm getting that job on first take. They don't want to do like nine minutes on why Brian Flores is the new Rex Ryan. But that's fine. We'll be back right after this. Hey, this is Matt Jones.

I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.

And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you can. Get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow.

We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig into coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast.

Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Back on NFL Daily and, yeah, you mentioned like the Brian Flores Rex Ryan influence.

I was thinking, well, maybe, I mean, not to be reductive, but in terms of changing game plans, week-to-week and showing up with some crazy stuff. I mean, he's still showing the Bill Belichick legacy. He is the next generation of Bill Belichick on some level. I mean, that was Belichick's advantage, too. Back in the odds, the ability to change the game plan that much on a week-to-week basis in a way that other teams could not. So Flores is maybe like the new generation Belichick, too.

Would that game a second job? Can Bill make the call? Give him end of a crack as a head go somewhere? I don't think that's going to help. I don't think Bill can get a job in the NFL anymore, which is. a crazy world we're living in but uh time comes for everyone all right who should i go with next i'm going to choose a team okay in the packers that are interesting to me in a way because they're not that interesting like every year they are the team for years like where we looked at and i thought like

man this is a top 10 talented defense this is the defense this is the year it's finally going to happen for them and then it never happened they're less than the some of their parts. Everyone just blames Joe Barry. Well, Joe Barry has now been gone for 18 months. Everyone just blames Joe Barry. And I wanted to talk about them and see what you thought, too, Ali, because they just seem really important. And I don't think we've talked about them almost at all on this show, like all offseason the Packers' defense. They're just there. And I don't know how many other defenses in the NFL are literally starting four first round picks on the defensive line. But the Packers are. And yet, the expectations are a little lower than they should be to me.

everything they did last year, obviously some disappointing play by the personnel up front. But what did you think about Jeff Halfley's influence coming from Boston college back, you know, into the NFL and coaching up this Packers team and kind of what it means for where they're at? Because this is a team that some people think will be in the Super Bowl. And I'm like, is this a defense I can imagine in the Super Bowl? That's the tricky thing. I was really down on the Jeff Halfley higher to begin with.

then he impressed me way more than my expectations about going into year. He was way more innovative and creative than I had given him credit for coming to the team. It was a lot of the best of what we're talking about with Minter and McDonald and that style of system, where it's pressure in disguise and marrying pressure with disguise. And that I think can game around some of the fact they don't have as many dynamic one-on-one winners as they should do given they invested four first round picks in the defensive line, given that their starting linebacking core is a first round pick and a second round pick. You'd think it would just be filled with dynamic one-on-one winners.

They, to me, just scream as they have to be a takeaway defense that they're not going to be able to pressure quite consistently enough without it being a game plan-based pressure to be able to just take over a game in the postseason. So relying on takeaways is like a fun thing in theory. But even last year, their takeaways where they started the season really hard, that was a lot of like individually great plays. It wasn't so much like disguising and freaking out quarterbacks by scheme. So it's tricky just bank on. Well, Xavier McKinney is going to have two of the wildest interceptions you are ever going to see in pro football. just back-to-back weeks. It's just difficult to bank on that.

The only thing they really have that's like, okay, where this is a development come from. I thought Nate Hobbs was a really smart, savvy pickup in Francy. And then it's Edge Cooper, who I truly believe has a chance talent-wise to be the best linebacker in the NFL. Now, whether that comes along early enough is a real question. He is way behind where you'd want him to be. I know he got an old pro vote or whatever, but his eyes are all over the place. He just is the quickest player in the league from basically any level. Like pound for pound, the most explosive player in the league.

And they've messaged all offseason. We've got this Quay, this Edge Cooper package. You've got a Quay Walker package. We've got to get those guys way more involved in the pass rush. And that's kind of a tell to me that, one, he still can't do all just the fundamental things. You've got to build a specific package. And then two, our past race isn't quite good enough that we have to build a separate thing to get maybe our most impactful behind the line of scrimmage player on the field ball.

That is fascinating on Cooper. and that linebacker group is like a wild boomer bust group because you're saying you think Edron Cooper can be the best linebacker in football. Do you think he is a guy that's going to be able to stay on the field every down and survive on passing downs? You think he can become that player? I think he'd become that play.

The main thing for the passing downs now, all these guys stink in coverage. Go through the best linebackers in the NFL. There's like six good ones. That's basically it. So to stay on the field now, the most effective thing you can do is be an effective blitzer.

And I think he's going to become, if not this season, the following year, the best blitzing linebacker in the NFL. So that is already a wash that that works for us. We'll figure the rest out in the back end. If we can just get a coverage body on the field or we put an extra defensive backfield, that's what we'll do. Being able to blitz and drop is the name of the game and just fall to the right spot and we'll figure the rest out. That I think should be easy and on the cards for him this season. It's more of the subtleties in the run game and the communication. That's where he's just like pretty clueless still.

He is a straight line. You know, if the gap is open, charged through the thing, and he does it at frightening speed. It's more the mechanics of the position that, I mean, it takes all these guys now three years. It's why the linebackers fall so far in the draft because they drop us draft a guy and develop them over three seasons. Right.

And so for him to show you that and show the Packers, that first step and the explosive ability just jumps off the screen that they could have something really special in year three, year four, but it might be the toughest position in the entire NFL to adapt quickly. So I mentioned the four first round. just to name him. Rashon Gary, who's now another year removed from another serious injury. And so maybe he's got a little more juice.

They kind of need him to. Kenny Clark is coming off one of his worst seasons. He was actually drafted by the Packers before Brian Gunn's, I believe. He has been there a long time. That was 2016. And then Devante Wyatt and Lucas Van Ness. And they could really use, you know, Wyatt had improved play, I think, last year. And they could really use him to keep progress.

and then they could really use to get to something out of Lucas Van Ness and to help that pass rush. Kind of this big, strong guy who hasn't really come through for them so far. So that's up front. I guess if you're looking at the upside, and I'm not as worried about the cornerback position as some Packers fan, the safety group of McKinney and Evan Williams is frisky and a lot of fun. I mean, McKinney's an all pro and Evan Williams, I think, was really interesting as a rookie. And so that's maybe where this group could have a little higher ceiling. How did you see how healthfully kind of used that group last year?

Yeah, I'm not in any way concerned about the secondary, honestly. I think they'll be able to piece it together. We just talked about the Vikings, who maybe the best evens in football, are going to start Jeff Akuta, who could have been out of the league at this point in his career. The thing they lack is just speed off the ball up from. It's that simple. But they don't have enough explosive dip and rip speed. It's all power rushes.

It all takes an extra step that it needs to. It's all effort Lucas Van Ness or design pressure. I don't know why they weren't involved in the Hussaroretic thing other than like an organizational philosophical thing that we don't throw cash at kind of want away for agents. That that to me is what they truly need. The secondary stuff is it's all kind of coverage and disguised base and then McKinney solves all our problems.

That's kind of how they built a thing on the back end. And I think McKinney is so talented, that's not going to go away. So long as they get, they can up the quick pressure rate, which is just really, really poor last. season. For all the grief that the Giants front office and Joe Shane took for hard knocks and letting Sequin Barkley go, they really didn't take enough grief for the Xavier McKinney just letting him walk and not being interested at all. That totally like that would have been a good guy to keep too. They could really use him. All right, you go give me another defense that

you find interesting. The Niners is the one for me where they are the prototypical example in the offseason of. We write down they have problem X. They address problem X. We've resources. we assume that it's been solved. And I just don't buy that. This idea that they can stay in this base defense they have, which is, to me, now just three years out of date with the rest of the league, that they dip back into the family tree and they say, Bob Sala, please come back.

And I think Robert Sala is a good coach, but it just felt like keeping everything within the family rather than trying to iterate and try something different. And they want to still play with a wide four down front, even on rundowns, and they have just been cooked year after year. And so their solution is, understandably, let's get younger and more athletic, and we're going to draft all these guys. But those guys are all going to play heavy snaps in year one. And you just don't solve such a critical issue, which is both structural-based and personnel-based by saying, we'll throw three rookies on the field.

They'll solve it for us. It never works that way. The Rams were able to get away with it slightly last season. But that's just an anomaly. I just don't think you can bank on our run defense, which triggers everything for us defensively, will be fixed by three rookies. Right. Michael Williams, you know, great edge setter that they take top 15 and they're hoping the young defensive tackles, Alfred Collins, C.J. West. We talked about C.J. West on 40s and Free Agents with Daniel Jeremiah. Everyone subscribe, by the way, this week that he's had a good camp. But you're right, it's risky. And I want to go back to what you said about Robert Sala and you thinking that maybe that scheme is a little out of date and isn't going to bring about the old. the good old days for the 49ers.

Like, I think a lot of the fans, why do you think that is? Playing in a 45 defense right now in the league, which other teams are doing, people still take the Robert Salat influence, not being involved in the kind of the blitz-heavy or blitz in the skies world, but basically all the other defenses we talked about just feels like you're way too static for the modern game.

And to do it, if you look at the teams who are doing that, the Texans, unbelievable defense, the Eagles, unbelievable defense. They're a bit more disguised based than the Niners. The thing they have is a lynchpin, maybe best player in our defense, Nicol Corner, who's often like a safety hybrid. Cooper DeGine, Jalen Petrie.

Both of them can truly play weak side linebacker for you, so the 4-25 can just blend into a 4-3 whenever you need it to fixes the wrong game element for you. You go through the Niners' defense. They let Telanoa Hufanga go. I like Jaya Brown, but he is not just like A can play linebacker for you.

They're really excited about Upton Stout, a player I really, really liked coming out of the draft, but he's 5-8. He's not going to walk down for you and play linebacker. So to just say you're going to play for an even front in an era where all these offenses are saying, we are going to play two back power football. We're going to pull and move everyone all the time.

We're just not going to put the extra back on the field. So we're going to overwhelm you up from. And you'll say, we'll but four big guys down there and try and match up with that. That's a reason why no one else is doing that. Vick's not doing that. None of these other teams are doing that. It works for them in the past wish element structurally. I think it's a real issue for them in the run game because of the marriage of the safety

to the from. and I just don't believe Robert Sal's the kind of guy who's going to have like a personality transplant overnight and change the system. I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong on that and that he can change the front on early down to then switch it to the traditional one for the pass rush. I just don't buy it because they've kept it so in-house now for so long.

Right. It is, it's a crazy just changing of the guard if the 49ers of all teams like, not that they're not mentally and physically tough, but ultimately if they can't hold up like up front because to me when I think of them at their, best that that is what they're so great at is this just like team of absolute beasts that will you know just destroy you up front but the league is changing i won't throw out the texans then i was thinking about the texans because just watching them on a week-to-week basis like

they are the they are the most interesting but it's mostly just like their players are awesome like the energy that they play all right let's talk a little texas their players are just so awesome and then the combination of the, like, talent and just the full field aggression that they play with is just a treat to watch. Yeah, I mean, only the Eagles. Like, it's just so strange to watch a pro game and see, like, a different level of speed and physicality.

Like, I always think back to the Eagles versus the Packers in the playoffs. It's like, they look so much quicker and more athletic. This is the pros. That shouldn't happen. And you see that way, I think the Texans all the time. That secondary is outrageous. I don't know how they've been able to get away with that. That could be, like, the best position group,

of any in the league that's not quarterback. Kaelan Bullock is going to become a super-duper star, I think, this season. Petri is probably the most impactful nickel corner in the league for a team who's running that same system as the Niners. He's their most impactful player. And that's on a defense that has Derek Stingley, that has Kamari Luster, that now has Chauncey Gardner Johnson. There's got the two edge rushes who are probably the two most famous names that they have

and are both really impactful to you. So it's just wire to wires, like, just talent everyone. And they have the thing, which this is where I'm basic. And I don't know if this translates as much on film. Maybe it doesn't. I do think with defenses, you can see, like, there is a real, like, quality of which defense is just playing faster and harder. It was one of the reasons why I wasn't totally shocked by the run of the Bengals a few years ago. Because even early in that season, they weren't a perfect defense.

But they just played with such an aggression. and speed that even though they were average, like that makes up for like below average talent. And the Texans are enviable. They have the best of both worlds where I think they have that in spades and they have like the best players too. But if we were ranking the teams, I think ultimately I would have to go with Texans

as just like my favorite to be number one. Yeah, but the two deep is maybe a little rough. And it's a, it's another team that kind of rattles through players outside the secondary. The two deep isn't quite as strong as they did do last year. But there's like the front line. It would be impossible to come up with a group that has a better four down as they do in a better, a better secondary group. Okay, one group I would say is close, at least up front, is the Steelers.

So I'll throw out them as my next one. The Texans were, we'll throw them into. So to me, this is a big season for Tomlin because it's like, okay, like, let's go. You do have everything I think that you really would want. You have this older group of great players, like Cam Hayward and Jalen Ramsey. and I'd even throw T.J. Watt at this point, he's obviously getting paid a lot of money, but he has less great years ahead of him than he has behind him. Darius Slay is there.

And then you do have a nice younger group. Like you want Nick Herberg and Joey Porter Jr. to step up. Keanu Benton's a fun player. They're talking up Peyton Wilson, the second year linebacker a lot. And so you have like this nice mix. High Smith is right in the middle of his peak. To me, he got everything you want. If Mike Tomlin is that dude right now,

now like they kind of they need to be great i think because of their offense and they do have the potential to be great like i'm not totally buying that it's going to happen but they kind of have to be great and the and the potential is absolutely there so i am fascinated to watch this defense this year i mean they should be dominant you've put that front four on the field and as you mentioned you can roll in nick her big who may be the most underrated player in all football it's just like get off the ball bounce dip and rip sub rusher probably as good as it gets in the league. You mentioned Highsmith too, Benton.

So the front floor is unbelievable and that's before you get to Harmon who they take in the first round and we'll see if he can give some inout versatility. The thing I've always putted heads with them about is that it's just not creative enough with the personnel you have. It really is, we roll out the same

guys doing the same stuff and we'll out-talent you and they keep getting away with it because they have an unbelievable amount of talent. It just feels like they're leaving stuff on the table. They're just a little bit more chaotic, little bit more interested in stuff like moving TJ water round. We watch how many of these defenses where Miles Garrett is lining

up doing the basketball crossover over the center that these teams go in a hunt matchups and the seal's like, no, TJ does his thing over and over again, lines up in the same spot, hits the same move and if it hits it hits, if it doesn't, it doesn't, I just wish they were more forceful in trying different more creative things. And when you get a guy

like Jalen Ramsey, who is like, we can put him anywhere on the field at any time. He's in L.A., he's playing dime lineback. He can play in the nickel. He can play it safety. They have every opportunity to be as creative as they want in the front and the secondary. And I just know in my bones, they will roll out the same system over and over again. Jalen Ramsey is one of those guys that I buy Camp Hype. I do buy that they're going to get the last, like, great year from Jalen Ramsey because he is just an all-time great,

but also going to be as excited and ready to make it count. He is just one of those players. It is what it is that like we've seen some players like this in NFL history that are in the Hall of Fame that their first year in a new spot every time is awesome. And I know he's getting older, but I think they'll know how to use him. When you say you butted heads with the Steelers, is that like in your own head?

Or you actually getting grief from them? Getting grief. I've written about Terrell Austin a couple of times. And one of them was complementary, and he was more upset with the complimentary one than he was the one where I tried to go in at him. They've done stuff, which is, all the stuff I wrote about in that, Rex Bish, you mentioned, of kind of

the macro trends of defensive football. They've tried to keep up with some parts of that, which I think is good and admirable, more so in like when you call stuff, essentially. But the under the hood things, the changing the design and the defense is just the exact same as it's been now for 10, 11, 12 seasons. And I'm more pleading with them. And that's where Taral Austin got upset. It's like, I think you can be even better.

You're excellent. But there's more here. And they just refuse to do it. Now, do they ever get personal with you? Like, who do you think you are? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I love that.

But you know why they're responding? Because they know you know ball and it does hit. And they obviously know an incredible amount about football and have the reasons for doing what they do. But I think it's because you're hitting a nerve that they have to think about these things. And that's why they're responding. All right, we're getting towards the end. So let's do a team from you that you just need to have in this show. Interesting is the Bengals.

Okay. Because their entire approach to the offseason, it was Lou's fault. It was Luke, we're not going to do anything. We'll draft Schmar Stewart, then we'll mess around with, bring him into Cam. We're not going to give Trey Hendrickson an extension. Everything that went wrong last year was Lu Anirumo, and I'll goal and we'll fix it. And I don't buy that premise in the slightest. I guess I'm hoping for like the old Lou Anirumo, not fixed, but like I was talking about, that just not trying.

harder but something new like they're doing things in a different way there is some new blood they're saying chamar stewards having a great camp but is that because the tackles for the bengals can protect we we don't know we will see they do have it is a young defense but yeah i'm hoping just for the sake of like the entertainment of the nfl i like the bengals being good and i want the wessling brothers to be happy that that is the the way it happens but maybe that's not convincing enough it certainly isn't for you that you don't think the talent's there no i don't think the talent's there it's just frustrating when you are so clearly in a championship window and it's just like, can we get

something to support borough in the passing game? Well, it's not going to be the run game. Well, it's not going to be the offensive line. Can you at least get some kind of complementary defense? Either we have a loaded secondary that takes the ball away so we can go into Arrowhead and beat them in a postseason game or our secondaries cook, but we at least have a from. And it's just

there's nothing there. And to not even try and make some aggressive moves that I just find so frustrating. And I'm a big Al Golden fan. I think he's a fantastic coach. But even there's like great defenses, being, I have so many players, I go package by package throughout the game. And that's kind of my special source. You can't do that in the pros.

It's tough to just roll package by package because you don't take Trey Hendrickson off the field in the pros. He's just better than everyone else on your team. So even the thing that makes him a really great coach is just difficult to replicate at this level and even more difficult to replicate with that roster when it's just pretty clear who should be on the field and who shouldn't be. And they're really counting on their rookies. Like they need Samar Stewart to hit. and he wasn't a guy that you looked at, that you thought immediately, like, oh, that's going to work day one.

Demetrius Knight is a second round linebacker that they really need to hit. I know you have your doubts on him. All right, we're going to jam in at least one more team. Should it be the Ravens or the Cardinals? Who do you want to talk about more? The Cardinals are like my most fun, beloved team in the league, I think. Why is that? But the fascinating element of them, and I wrote a long piece, people going to read about Jonathan Gannon,

is this weird headspace he now exists in between the Jonathan Gannon, I think he is like at harp and the Jonathan Gannon, he had to be last season to get through a season in which he had zero talent on his defense outside of Buda Baker. And he's rolling out a CFL roster and him and the staff are getting together if we being like, how on earth do we couple our way through this?

And they run the wackiest defense, including Brian Flores, in the league, probably that we've seen in like a good six, seven, eight years in terms of just the different stuff. They're throwing out every week, really, really creative. And then they bought all the events. investment in the front this off season, and the creative stuff was really successful for them last year. It was different. People couldn't keep up with it. They confused some of the best

quarterbacks in the game over and over again without having talent. And my thought, I mean, the season is, well, is it better to persist with that stuff with more talent? You're confusing people. You're wrecking shop by design. And then you have better players executing. Or does he revert back to saying, because they ran in Philadelphia, the most passive, mundane defense in football. and it was we have eight dominant past riches and we'll just roll through him and no one can keep up and we'll break the sack record

is he just going to having put all that investment in the front roll back to the blandest most boring Jonathan Ganon defense ever or has he had this kind of like ayahuasca trip and now he's kind of into the cool creative Vance Joseph Ryan Flores Walt Well it's got to be a mix of both

but I think the talent's not good enough to just rely on it and you're leaning a little more heavily on the creativity And I think it's a great way to think about great coaching and great defenses. It's not being able to be creative and just do the most with least like one time. It's, all right, how can you adapt the next season your plan to your new players? How can you do it season after season after season?

It's a young staff too. So I think of them in their third season. And I think what they've done has been impressive overall. Nick Rallis, their defensive coordinator, who named his son. you know, after Kaiser White, and Kaiser White doesn't have a job right now. I mean, what's happened? First of all, yeah, can we get Kaiser White a job? What's happening, Holly?

We should get, can he not be, like, can you not be on the coaching staff? Nick Gloves is. It's always been one of my sneaky favorite players. I'm not exactly sure why. Just like the way he played. I'm confused why he doesn't have a job. But yeah, it's that maturation. I think it's such a fascinating team, I think on both sides of the ball,

but especially defensive, like where they go in the year three. Let's wrap with the Ravens then because like Zach Orr in his first year with the Ravens takes over as defensive coordinator. And there was this narrative, D&P shows up. And, you know, I think the bigger thing was Kyle Hamilton, you know, kind of changes where he's at on the defense and helps to prevent some of the mistakes that were happening. And it was interesting. This offseason, I noticed Chuck Smith, another one of their assistants, almost unprompted was kind of like, stop giving Dean Pree's so much credit more. or less. He said it without saying it. To be fair, like, these are coaches that are smart about it. He was like, Zach's the dude. Zach is, you know, the reason why it turned around. Like,

he kind of was saying, everyone's giving Dean Peas a credit. Now, you got to be careful. I went and checked. Dean Peas is not employed by the Ravens officially anymore. He is like a consultant. He might like help a little, but he's not part of their coaching staff. But his son is Matt Peas, which is just very NFL. But Zach Gore's back there. Chuck Pagano's back there. And more importantly, I do think it's the best defensive back room around Kyle Hamilton. I kind of think of Hamilton as the fulcrum. It's the best room around him since he's been in the NFL, and we're just waiting, like, Ravens fans, I know they're thinking, why is this year going to be any different than any other?

To me, the reason would maybe be year two of Zach Orr, tell me if you think this can happen, and the defensive backs kind of having that year two leap, maybe like Mike McDonald did as the coordinator for the Ravens, too. The defensive back field, I'm a little bit more worried about than you, I think. I'm not quite sure all the pieces fit together cohesively. It's really fun to think of, oh, we're very versatile. Kyle Hamilton can play anywhere. Malik, I stars can play. It's like, well, it's third down.

We're just going to line up who is stood where. It's like really fun to have the flex piece until you just got to play for a game to beat the bills in Buffalo. It's like, okay, who stood where? And they feel more versatile than they do like, we just have great players in each spot to me. I'm not sold on Dyer Alexander getting through the entire season and being anywhere near the player of old. For some reason, I'm buying the Jalen Ramsey thing for him too, but that it's a fair point. There's a reason why he only got a $4 million contract. It's a huge, huge risk.

That's fair to point out. Their big turnaround last season, I don't want to bore people on this show with talk of communication systems on defense. Trust me, I understand how boring that is. But that is what happened last season is they moved Kyle Hamilton back, completely remade the communication system. They couldn't line up last season. That was like the main issue. Zach All was running someone else's defense incorrectly. They move Kyle Hamilton back.

They strip it to the bare bones. They switch how they communicate. They put it into three phases rather than two phases. All of a sudden, hey, press, so the defense is really good. So that to me is just done. And you can roll forward with the end of the season being a true representation of what it will be going forward. And they can, I think, just out talent people.

I think that's so explosive in the front. What they can do with moving Hamilton and Stark's round is exciting, even if I've got some like, coverage reservations on third down, probably more so than the most of the people. So I don't see any reason why it wouldn't again be one of the top 10 defense in the NFL. I just wonder quite where the ceiling is and exactly who is going to be on the field where in the key spots. Yeah, Madabweke, who was good last year, but maybe not as good as he was the year before.

Travis Jones, like how they play up front is obviously massive for this team. Adafé-O-A, who's in a free agent year. Kyle Van Nuoy is still there, like one of the most underpaid players in football. You know, when you think about that Bill's game, I'm glad you point out, like, they will just have to stop them. They did give up, what was it? I think three touchdowns in their first four drives. One was a short-ish field.

But the defense was the bigger reason they lost that game. And, yeah, I think them improving this year is the best hope they have. I think they're going to be my Super Bowl pick. So I was hoping you would support me in that, and it didn't really feel like it. No, I think they can be very good. The most interesting part of them to me is Roquan. Roquan was pretty terrible for almost all of last season, honestly. And he got a major name bump on being just like fine and it down yet.

No, he was like flat out terrible for most of the season. The communication issues were his issues. They had to take a lot of the calls off him because they couldn't get lined up properly. So if they fixed some of that towards the back of season, he can get back to even 80% of the play he was at the true peak of his powers, then that would be pretty transformational for them. And I, you know, I'm open about it. And okay, that makes me feel good. in a way that, to me, I'll view positively that, like, there is a ceiling for Rokon Smith to be the best version of himself, which makes this defense way better.

And, yeah, I like to root. I like to pick something that I'm going to want to be rooting for, too. So last year, it was the Bills to win the Super Bowl, which I felt like had a pretty good shot, didn't quite get there in the end. But this year, it's like, I don't need another Eagles chiefs. Eagles are fun to watch, but I don't need it. I think I've picked the Ravens four years in a row. I don't think I've ever picked the Ravens.

Really? I don't think I've ever picked the Ravens. So that's why I feel like this is going to be my year. It's going to be your year, too. Ali Connolly putting out some of the best content in the game. Again, go ahead and subscribe to the substack and listen to the podcast, the read optional. Thank you, Ollie. Appreciate you.

Thanks, ma'all. All right, we will be back. It's a little different this week. Forties and Free Agents will be dropping in your feed. We're going to be talking some AFC West, me and Dan. Daniel Jeremiah. That's on Friday. And then we got a little extra episode. We're going to go talk to some of the players, talk NFC South and talk with the Saints. And yeah, like when we're working for an entirely new company, football's back. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching, training, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

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