NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Things That Make You Go Hmmm and What Could Stop The Eagles?

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Jourdan Rodrigue to get you caught up on news from around the NFL including the latest on Trey Hendrickson and the Bengals (01:40), Baker Mayfield's contract (05:30), and to tell you what's making them go "hmmm" as we head toward the new season (08:45). After the break, Bo Wulf and Zach Berman of the PHLY Eagle's Podcast to talk about the defending Super Bowl Champions approach to the upcoming season (17:22). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're not defending our 2024 championship. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesleying podcast. studio join for the third time this week. It's really happening. Jordan Rodriguez. I'm here. Yes. This is this is the week where it really got real that you that you're the most regular three times a week part of the show, except for the next couple weeks will be a little dicey because you're off

and you're doing training camps. Colleen's doing training camps and Patrick. Yeah, you'll have to give me a little colleague Wolf special like the geo tag of where in the world am I patching in from for the next couple weeks for training camp. I'm looking forward to hearing everything that that you learn while you are on the road. I know. I always text you. So just for the listener, I text Greg often when I'm on the road, just things I'm seeing. Love it happened. Things that I'm trying not to mess up as well. So little nugs. And then yeah, before you know, it will be settling into our regular season schedule where we'll have same co-host, same shows each and every week. And I do love this time of year because every show is a little bit different

on this show. I'm going to hit a little bit of news. I'm going to hit a little A couple things to just make us go, hmm, you know, early in training game. Just something that's making us go, hmm, just two things. And then we're going to talk to our friends at the all-P-H-L-Y show, Zach Berman and Bo Wolf,

referring to the Eagles off the top of the show. Because even if they weren't the defending champs, to me, they're just so talented, so interesting how they are run. They are one of the most fascinating teams in the league. And so I'm looking forward to that deep dive into the Eagles. But first, as we always do,

we'll talk a little bit of news. Trey Hendrickson has shown up to Bengals training camp since we last spoke, says he's not going to be a distraction. He wants to be involved in all the meetings. It's a positive sign, I think, but it's also just a reflection of the CBA. He is fined, I think, $50,000 every day.

And that cannot be given back by the team. It's mandatory. So you were just giving up a crazy amount of money. And we know the Bengals aren't a team that is necessarily worried about that or his timeline. And so I know he was enjoying his time in Florida, but it makes sense that he is. Yeah. It's also, you know, really humid and sticky in Florida right now, you know, a little bit less so incident. No, but what I'm saying, I think they were over the 100 on the heat index the

other day. So it's wild there in Ohio. What I, what I will say is, um, I do think this is a win win for Trey Hendrickson because not only is he avoiding that fine. He's also around teammates. Um, but also the optics. I mean, he's out there. Fans can see him out there. Fans can see him out there. Fans can watch him walk in. There are videos of him walking in and still not dressed out, still without a contract. I think that the more visuals of him being present but not signed to the extension does in its own way put some pressure on the front office. And I mean, I guess we don't really have a reason to think that this won't get done other than the fact that it's not done yet. At some point, it could be week one like Jamar Chase and then we could be three.

talking about at the end of the season how that ended up being a problem and why the offense started slow and like in the cycle continue yeah it continues uh other my goal next off season is to uh not speak too soon in the process of any of this about any bengals player we we say that every year and then it's like just a goal of mine we just need things to talk about in the off season that happens people getting paid though uh bernard ryman yeah got paid a left tackle not a lot of people probably familiar with once played on a professional team in how about that? And now here he is getting paid like a $100 million contract. It's funny to me because he occupies the exact same space that the former Colts left tackle Anthony Costanzo had

where he would get paid, be that guy that's a really solid player, but not the top five necessarily at his position. But he's gotten better and better each and every year. So congrats to him. And that was a good piece of business by the Colts. I'm not sure if it was as good a piece of business for the Seahawks to sign their GM, John Schneider, for another four years through 2030, a guy who doesn't necessarily have the highest approval rating, I don't think, from the Seahawks fan base. And yet sneakily, because the ownership situation, since the death of Paul Allen is, you know, maybe a little more absent than other ownership situations, like has as much power as just about any non-coach in the league, John Schneider. And the fact that he

assigned through 2030 gives him even more. So you better hope those offensive line moves worked out because he's got to, he was under a lot of heat last year and he's back for a while. You know, he has so much tenure already. You know, we were talking to Rams GML Sneed the other day. And I do want to point out, we got a note from a listener about, you got to mention John Schneider up there in the 10 year as well. Was it 14, 15 seasons at this point? So is he longer than Sneed? Did I mess that up?

I don't know. I didn't look. Maybe part of it is that, yeah, because he was there with Carol from the beginning was that I, you know, Carol was the primary decision maker. initially, but that's right. John Schneider's been there for a while. And it might be an interesting situation because he had such a high risk offseason John Schneider in terms of

how he rebuilt the offense, that if it doesn't go well, he'll be under a lot of heat, and yet he has signed for the next six years. 15th season. Yeah, I remember that introductory press conference with him and Pete, but Pete hired him. It's worth pointing out. And now he is the man there. Also the man.

Baker Mayfield. Yes. Love it when a little bit News just gets broken on a random interview with like a print writer when that's Pete Prisco at CBS. And Baker just kind of dropped into that interview that the Bucks have already guaranteed his 2026 contract like fully. That's actually a big item and that they're working on a long-term deal. So I do think that is a real show of faith in Baker. He is going to be the Bucks quarterback next season. Not like that there was much of a doubt, but what if this season had just gone horribly wrong. They had that out, like, kind of like the old Gino or Derek Carr type of

contract. It's like fully guaranteed he is there and wouldn't be surprised at all if they come to an agreement during this season to like have him long term. It really did happen. All the Baker believers got their best case scenario. We all, we all had a meeting a couple years ago. We said, okay, any ounce of spare energy, any lucky tokens that you keep with you, let's all devote them to pushing this energy in one direction and that is Baker Mayfield. No, but he is so, I like watching when players thrive in environments

that do seem like finally the place they're supposed to be. It's one of my favorite things. We've seen it a lot with quarterbacks over the last couple of years and Baker is no different because he is such a unique personality. He is such a gamer quarterback and he has this sort of

like aura around his orbit that players seem to like being around and and wanting to play for. And that coordinators seem to really gel with. I mean, think of how many recently, before, when he was jumping around teams and then recently now has,

has gone through three and three years with the bucks, despite all the success. Yeah. Your boy. What is his crazy name? So it's Josh Brousard. Right, but we're not allowed to call him that. Yeah, King Gizzard and Lizard.

King Grizzard. King Grizzard. I saw like a pitchfork link about King. So we'll just call him. We're just going to call him King Grizzard. Love him. Yeah. And love him already.

That's like an, ideal situation for a quarterback, but if Sam Darnold was there, like, I don't think it would be going as well. I think Baker has taken it and made it his and they're working around his strengths. And that man could always spin a football. There was never any doubt about that. A couple little injury items to get to, not a little deal to Xavier Worthy that he suffered a concussion, but that is the reason why he left practice. The chiefs down a couple of their top receivers right now. Hollywood Brown is also out of practice,

but Xavier Worthy in the concussion protocol and no need to rush him back. Zach Moss was cut by the Bengals in more Bengals news. We did get an update on Maxwell Hirsten, the first round pick of the Bills. He had left with a non-contact injury. Our guys at NFL Network report that it's an LCL sprain

or which is basically a tear. And so not really sure what the timeline is, but it's not an ACL. So that that's a positive, but you have to imagine now Tradavius White or Dane Jackson, one of the veterans there is in line for kind of the week one starting job for the bill. So some injury news there. And let's now get to just some things maybe that make us go, you know, before we get to the Eagles of it all, just something that's on your radar. Oh, I'm cheating. I guess I have two.

You go first then. Okay. Well, this is more of a news item, but it also does make me go. Just that Jake Hainer was taking first theme reps at Saints practice Wednesday. What are we doing here? You can't quit the Saints. No, we'll be there. Tyler Shuck was taken in the second round. Spencer Rattler is obviously clearly more talented. And this guy, Jake Hainer, who, our friend Adam, at the St.

All-time player photo shoot. Yeah, Blake Block Party podcast. This gives me an excuse to send out the Jake Hainer photo shoot from a year ago, you know, where he just modeled it up. And I loved it for, like, his NFL team. team photos is getting equal time. I just think it's been under the radar that he's still getting first team reps. And it's Adam's theory that Kellynne Moore just sees himself in Jake Hainer.

Basically, an underpowered doesn't have a lot of physical gifts, but trying to win by playing quick from the neck up. But like those are reps that Tyler shook your second round pick who has not looked good could be taking. So what are we doing here? It's like the other, it's like the year they drafted Trevor Lawrence and they didn't let him take all the reps for a while. It's not quite Trevor Lawrence, but it's still, it's just stupid.

I will say one of my favorite things is when Adam psychoanalyzes somebody. Yeah. We've over text done this about you, but you can never see it. He is a social worker, but it's a dangerous thing to do. So that's just... He's a gifted reader of humans. I'll say that. It's his job.

Yeah. And I just... What are we doing here? We can do better than this, Saints. But yeah, they're cutting it up three ways. Reminds me of the Seahawks battle. back in the day. It could be four quarterbacks. Who on earth would think to do that?

Here's the thing. If the dude is really the dude, you're going to be the dude anyways. So that would be the pushback. Like, I remember they made Russell Wilson. He was a third round pick, split up the reps with Charlie Whitehurst and Charlie Fry or whatever back in the day. And he still turned into Russell Wilson. So I just, I'm a little annoyed. Now let's go to something else that makes you go home.

Two slightly to the quarterbacks point, something that made me go home this morning was seeing clips of Shane Steichen talking about how evenly match. the battle is between Anthony Richardson and Daniel Jones. That's a hmm to me. But I think it's a hum in the direction of it's good for Anthony Richardson because in a way, I thought they were spitting things towards Daniel Jones. And there is reporting there in the first few days in pads, your colleague James Boyd, thought that Richardson's looked a little better than Daniel Jones for what it's worth. It's not like a home run, but so far he's looked a little better. So that is very interesting. Give me, give me your larger.

My larger, hmm, it's something I've been thinking about for the last couple of weeks. I know. that we are going to get to it in our conversations about every team in the league. But why aren't the Broncos getting more like not just national hype? Because they're getting complimented. Like they're getting hype. I would say that. But in terms of like the definitive, this might be one of the best teams in football this year. Like why aren't they getting like it's a top three defense in my opinion.

I'd put them at the top. Right. And and I think that this is a team that has has finally gotten. it all together and is going in that direction. I think this is going to be one of the best teams in football. Factoring aside injuries, whatever. But the reports out of camp are really exciting about Bo Nix, how he's playing about this offensive line, getting their receiver locked in, Cortland Sutton, getting, you know, just getting a little bit more dimension to this offense as well. This defense is a top unit in the league. Like, I just, where is the, where is the,

there's buzz. I would say that. It's, it's. It's, It's not like nobody's talking about them. Not in the way that you just did, though. Clip it, rip it, put it on the socials. Jordan's here in her first week and she's already learning the game because that is a hot take. And the case for it, I do think, is sometimes you don't realize when the best part of your window is, you know, before it's over.

And this is the Broncos window. The combination that they have of talent, continuity, and youth is unique and it's hard to keep together for a while. And then on the defensive side of the ball, they're not going to be able to keep that front intact for too much longer because guys will be coming due to get paid. They're going to have to pick and choose who they do pay. At a certain point, the quarterback is going to have to get paid. Maybe Vance Joseph gets a job. Yeah. And then, and Vance Joseph, who's done an outstanding job and really rebounded from some, some difficult

situations there when they first got there with Sean Payton. Like, this is really an exciting team. They're well coached. They're well thought out. And they've really recovered from the absolute fiasco that they put themselves in during the Russell Wilson, Nate Hatton. Akkad era a couple years ago. Respect the take. Could see it happening. I don't think I can get quite there. A total cynic would say they might have the most positive local media corps in the entire league.

So that helps, that helps like fluff up what's going on in camp. But I do think there actually is a legitimate football case for everything that you're saying, including winning that division. One thing that made me go, hmm, today was just like thinking about who doesn't have a job. I kind of forgot how many these guys on my old top 101 are still looking for work

means maybe I did a bad job Amari Cooper not out of work and I like searched Amari Cooper on the Everything app and there's some like clearly bad AI of him like looking overweight and I'm just like come on bro

and it's like oh here's why Amari Cooper doesn't have a job it's like no that picture is from three years ago but it's fooling people Amari Cooper doesn't have a job Asante Samuel Jr. Good cornerback. I know he had a shoulder injury

he doesn't have a job. Stefan Gilmore. Could the Cowboys go back to the Stefan Gilmore well? I could see it because they really need a cornerback. To me, that is a perfect team fit for him. But he'll be on a team, I believe. Zadaria Smith played pretty well last year. Doesn't have a job. Brandon Sheriff might be considering retirement. So that might be why he doesn't have a job and wants to skip this training camp portion. Either way, that could be the case for a lot of these guys. But played at a pretty high level last year. Doesn't have a job. Keenan Allen, Kaiser White, who I like. Razul Douglas, like Justin Simmons, Genevian Clowny, Will Hernandez, who my son got to meet at the Super Bowl,

has played really well at guards coming off an injury, Marcus Williams, Matthew Judon, just some names. As we got to the end, it was kind of in order of like how well they were playing last year. But it's a lot of guys who were starting in the NFL last year and just something to watch over the next couple of weeks. Yeah, because at least a couple of these guys will get picked up after cuts, you know, after that first wave of cuts. And then after teams figure out, okay, could this person cheaply be an improvement over somebody we brought in as a UDFA or somebody filling in for an injury role? No question.

Yeah. So it's all just a matter of timing for some of these guys. And I think a few of them will sign mid-August after teams have a better feel of what's on their roster, after they got the ability to kind of skip the worst part of training camp. I mean, let's get through a full week of pads first. Right. You know? Right.

But I think to that end, Samuel Jr., Gilmore, Cooper, Kaiser White's got to be in the NFL. Come on. And eventually, clowny. Like,

those are guys I feel pretty comfortable are going to be in the NFL this year. And yeah, maybe for a guy like Keenan Allen, it's a post week one thing. We'll see. We'll see. I am told by our great producer,

Eric, that before we go to break, we could look at a beautiful picture of Jake Hainer. So there are many shots there. from the series, Chuck? I was not too familiar with that show, but way back in the day, I actually worked at the NBC production offices after I was a page there at NBC.

You were an NBC page. And Chuck was one of our shows. We were just getting it going. It was like coming off the ground. It was coming together. So very indirectly in terms of doing some assistant office work, like I contributed to the Chuck Enterprise.

How about that? Wasn't it just like one season long? long. Oh, no, that had a long run. That was a big winner for everyone involved. And Jay Caner, you know what? I actually, when this came out, I think everybody had fun with it, but I, I appreciate when people don't take themselves too seriously. Love me some Jay Caner. Love me some Boe Wolf and Zach Berman. We're going to talk some Eagles after the break. everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on games.

game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. Now, I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that?

Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast.

Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponent. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

One receiver left is A.J. Brown. Barclay stays in, picks up a big blitz pick up. Ball goes down the right side. Into the arms of Johan Dodson. And that will be an Eagles touchdown. Huge play. Down that right-hand side to the former Washington receiver. Saquin Barclay picking up the blitz, left in man coverage down the field.

Dotson just beat his man on the outside, and a simple throw to open the score. First big blitz. That's back now. Oh, I know that voice. Saquan is ready for it. Jailet Hertz is ready for it. And how about Jahan Dotson, one-on-one coverage?

We haven't seen him make a big play in months, and he gets the first touchdown for the Super Bowl. He was saving it for you, Greg. Oh, wow. That was Will Gavin and myself on Talk Sport. Funny how that works, you know? Wish I had just a part of that callback because Jahad Dotson did have a big play in the NFC championship.

But neither here nor there. That was a lot of fun. And that was a great night for all of Philadelphia. And that includes our next two guests, Bo Wolf and Zach Berman from the all-Piard. H-L-Y show. What a night that was for you guys. And it is just all optimism here. And if you're watching on YouTube, this is the first ever dueling studio shot we've ever had. And you guys look beautiful. You look like you're in shape for training camp. Well, thank you very much. All the credit

goes to Julia, our producer for making that happen. But yeah, I told you that it's like we're playing doubles tennis here. We got a little ping pong going on. Okay. Don't bring up tennis. Greg stretched beforehand. Bowulf. He beat me. He beat me. He beat me. And Arizona before this Super Bowl a couple years ago. Big serve. I wasn't ready. But. That's why he brought it up. He won't have brought it up otherwise. It was competitive. And yes, love, love having Zach on the show. Yeah, I was going to say, hey, Zach, you and I are also here. Yeah. It's good to see you. Yeah. Old coworkers. Everyone's always just tried to like angle Zach out. I mean, who knows? Who knows? He's a power player. So it's hope season, right? And we just heard, you know,

the end of one of the best performances in Super Bowl. history in my mind by the Philadelphia Eagles, just putting it on that Chiefs team. And we're all optimism here. We're going through everything that's going to go right. But the reality is the rest of the league is rooting for your downfall and the Eagles downfall because when the Eagles do well, you guys do well too, not that you're rooting for them. And so I thought maybe we'd structure this segment at least to start about what could go

wrong for the Eagles. I want to hear actually from Zach, you're out there each and every day. what is the one thing you think could go wrong for the Eagles this year that would not allow them to get back to the Super Bowl? I would say the pass rush. If the pass rush is not what it needs to be because there are questions on the edge, right? That's really my big question about this team.

They lose Josh Sweat. They lose Brandon Graham. They trade Bryce Huff. And they're relying on Nolan Smith and Jalick's Hunt taking a big jump. and then some free agent acquisitions and really their interior rush to be big factors. So I think that if the past rush isn't good enough, that's my biggest question going into the season. Outside of the starting group, who among that defensive line are you not only expecting to take a step forward,

but needs to take a step forward this year in order to actually bring that unit to life again? Yeah, the two names I would really point out is on the edge J.LX Hunt. Well, I know he's the starting group, but then on the interior, Moro Ojamo is a big time player for them. He's filling in for Milton Williams, so he's a starter as well. And so it really comes down to players who are role players last year, filling in for Josh Sweat, filling in for Milton Williams. If you look at the depth, either Josh Uche or Aziz Ojalari needs to step into that number three job, but it's really going to be the top edge rushers because Vic Fangio doesn't have that four-man, five-man, man rotation that the Eagles have had in the past.

So it's really about the top five, six players on that front getting to the quarterback. Feel free to just interrupt him, Bo, like you do on your show. It will not surprise you, if you've listened to her show, to know that I disagree with Zach here. To me, the biggest question mark is the secondary, because you think about the defense last season, you know, the Super Bowl was one thing. It was great to see Josh Swett and Milton Williams have those monster games. But that was the best defense in football, not because they had a great pass rush.

It was the best defense in football because they had an unbelievable back seven and especially the best secondary in football, thanks in large part to Cooper Dejean and Quinion and Mitchell being so good as rookies. And there were no weak links. Right now, the way they stand, there are maybe three week links in the secondary, depending on where guys are going to play. You've got Quinnion Mitchell, who has looked amazing in campus thus far and could be, you know, in like all pro conversation.

You've got Reed Blankenship penciled in as one of the starters at safety as a solid player. Then it's like, okay, Cooper Degene is going to be on the field. We don't know where yet. Is it going to be at safety? Is it going to be at nickel? Is it going to be the other outside corner spot? Probably not. And then you've got Keeley Ringo and Adoree Jackson right now competing for the other spot.

And second round pick, Drew McCuba was supposed to probably start at safety next to Blankenship. But he's injured right now. And you know that for rookies at that position with Vic Fangio, missing time is going to matter. And so that is a question. mark. And if the secondary is not as good as it was last year. And if teams are just peppering whoever that other corner is, then the rush is going to have less time to get home. If the secondary is as good as it was last year, which is a high mark, then I'm not worried about the pass rush. You've still got Jalen Carter. You've still got Nolan Smith. I think Jailin,

Jalick's Hunt will be fine. And Morrow Ojimo, the Eagles do think can be like 90% of what Milton Williams was. So to me, it's much more about the secondary. It's a lot of OJMO talk on your podcast, a of pop how well he's looked, a lot of talk about his name pronunciation change. Also, if you disagree with with Zach there, you could point out that one of Zach's points to support that the defensive, you know, the edge spot is a, is a big issue, is that Bryce Huff is no longer there, which seems like, I feel like they can replace those, those snaps. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's really the key to the Eagle season that Bryce Huff, true. I wanted to ask, I wanted to ask you guys, too, about, you mentioned it, Boe, and your point

about the secondary Cooper DeGine, again, trying on different hats in this defense. And I think we were really high on him as a collective four group here, double studios, four group about the versatility that he had. And then also how he was going to really ascend into that like big nickel star slot hybrid safety slot player that he was last year. But do you think that there's a potential here because you're really not wanting to isolate one of those unknowns at corner on the outside. Do you think there's a potential here that this is a more matchup derived role for him moving forward? Like some games, like, say they're playing a really good tight end or a couple. You see him back a little bit closer to the box. You see him in the slot. Maybe some games,

you see him back deeper at safety if they have a good, a really good explosive passing game with receivers. I mean, how do you see this sort of shaking out for Cooper, who Humble Bragg came on to the show after the Super Bowl to talk with us? That's right. Yeah. It is. It is probably the most fascinating question about the defense heading into this season. I'm honored. And Joe has talked about it probably is not about what is best for Cooper Dijin. It is about what is best for the rest of the defense. And by that, he means who are the other guys who are going to be on the field, right?

And so if Drew McCuba was going to be ready, then you can probably just keep Cooper Dijian in the nickel when they're in nickel. And you know, you bring so much versatility. He was, he was great for them last year so that they could stay in nickel again. against heavy fronts because he was so good in the box. There's a thought that, you know, in the spring, he took some reps outside in base. If the Eagles have more confidence in McCuba, for instance, then Kili Ringo or Dory Jackson,

that's where he would be. But the larger conversation about like Cooper's versatility is it goes to one that Zach and I have also disagreed about over the years and that is like the value of a positionless player as Zach calls it. You know, Zach loves an Isaiah Simmons, the idea that like, I'm with you, Zach.

This guy can just roam around on the defense. Oh, we're getting Isaiah Simmons hype in the year 2025 in Packers camp, every training camp, because you know who looks great like in training camp before Real Football's plays? Like Isaiah Simmons. Okay, but if it doesn't work, then you have the Isaiah Simmons journey with the Cardinals. If it does work, then you have the Buddha Baker journey under a Vic Fangio disciple, Jonathan Gannon. That's all I'm saying.

That's all I'm saying. Well, to me, what this goes to is all of this theory is great until it comes time to have a game plan for a week and the defensive coordinators need a guy to play a position. And if you think about the Vic Van Joe defense last year, what was so great about it was they had like, they had 11 guys who were on the field and they didn't really have to rotate a ton and they all knew exactly where they were supposed to be. And so to me it is, it is Cooper DeGine is probably right now their best or second best safety, their best nickel and probably their second best outside corner. And he can play all of those different positions, but he's going to play those positions. He's not going to, he's not

going to be like freelancing around. And so to the matchup question that you asked Jordan, I think that Quinnion Mitchell is actually the guy here because we have seen him. Last year, he played all on the right side throughout most of the summer and the spring. He's worked on the left side to prepare for the possibility that he's going to be shadowing number one receivers, especially because they're going to be weak on the other cornerback spot. And last summer, we saw Quinnian play inside as well before he earned that outside job. So I think the matchup thing here is that maybe Quinnion is going to be following. guys and then you just figure out which position Cooper dejean is going to play but go ahead Zach no i i think

you put it well i think that the there's probably a better term than position list multi-position and position full i agree with uh jordan that there are certain weeks when the matchups favorable you know you you think about someone like marlin humphrey who can line up in the slot line up outside that could be a comp for cooper the gene you could also look at like devon mccordy's career trajectory as as something that Cooper DeGene could do where he slides to safety and he's so impactful there. I mean, he is such a valuable player for them. I also think, and this isn't a 20-25 question, but long term, the Eagles need to think, like, what's the most valuable spot for him?

If he can be a top outside corner, as we've seen, that's a $25, $30 million position, right? So, I mean, this is not a Vic Fangio question. That's a Howie Roseman question. Yeah. But I'm fascinated to see. where Cooper is long term. Yeah, because you guys doubted. I heard, you know, you were putting some shade on that he got ranked.

You were surprised in the top 70 from the players. He was 60. I thought that was wild. He's not a better player than Jordan Milata. I mean, that's fair, but that's myelada's ranking. Like, that didn't seem that crazy to me. You guys were there. Zach, you literally wrote the book on the Eagles championship season.

Everyone should check out leap year when it comes out. I mean, the defense just completely changed because I do think one of the bigger questions and I don't want to spend the whole time on DeGine. I want to hear what you guys have seen on the ground too. But to wrap DeGine, I do think one of the bigger questions with him is not just where he's playing, but his rookie season was so unique. Like, there is an argument that he could potentially be on like a defensive player

of the year type of player, all pro year after year, Hall of Fame type of trajectory. Because I just haven't seen many players in the secondary have that kind of rookie season. And yet you guys are poo-pooing that he's even like a top-seller. No, and I think what they're saying, and I'm kind of parsing this from Bo because he brought up a really good point here

is I think it's a two-part question. It's Cooper DeGine and Quignan Mitchell. Yes. And I think the big question, which then leads to a million more questions, obviously as we watch this defense, this version of the defense unfold is, how do you make both of those guys

unavoidable players when quarterbacks do not want to throw to them? How do you get them in the action and at the ball and involved in as many snaps as possible when quarterbacks do not want to F with them at all? So how it's a two-part question in my mind and it's not just Cooper, it's also Quinnion Mitchell as a very, very strong

part of that. See, I'm going to throw it back to you guys thinking, like, it's more of a social thing. I heard Bo even say it. Like maybe players are overrating him because they're so excited to see a white cornerback. But I think you're going the other way and you're almost like afraid to rate him for what a unique rookie season

that he had because like, you know, you don't want to just overhyped the guy. This is a trap. No, no, no. I was very surprised that he ranked that high knowing how that process works. That process is meaningless. Let's be real. It's just kind of ridiculous. You know,

they pop into the locker rooms and the guys have like 15 minutes. They're like, I'm going to rank you here. You rank me here. Let's talk about it. I was surprised that before even the Super Bowl, when he has that pick six,

that the rest of the league would have viewed him so high. And honestly, I do think part of that is because of the visibility of him being a white cornerback, not to say that he is not awesome. Okay.

Yeah. I don't think that has much to do with it. I think it has more to do with how unique of a player he is. And that's why, frankly, you know, to address Jordan's point, Quinyon Mitchell is so sticky in coverage. He's not as dynamic in terms of his ball skills. He's not as physical a player. So I want Cooper around the ball more.

So in the slot or safety, and I want Quinyon to be on the outside, shutting down the opposing team's top receiver. See, this would be a fun show. Is Quigion in the top 100? Yeah, I like that you're bringing up the Quinyon that they're a pair, because when else has it happened that two guys... He's a runner-up for defensive rookie of the year.

Right. When else has it happened that two guys in the same secondary are top three? And nobody in the locker room would tell you that Cooper Dijian was better than Quinn-on-Mitchell last year. Okay. I'm saying they're very much connected, in my opinion. But you have to, if that's the thing, it's deployment, that's the big question, is make them both together the same part of the same side of the equation.

Make them both together as unavoidable a tandem as you can. It's going to be cool to watch. And I do think from a, like, how does Howie Roseman keep getting away with it standpoint? it is fair to point out that when they took Quigionan Mitchell, they were, like, debating to the last second, do we take Quinyan Mitchell or Cooper DeGine? Why not both? Right.

And the rest of the league, let him have him. Like, you know, that is a, that is a real thing. You know, there's the video of Jeffrey Lurie when they draft Cooper DeGine saying, he went to bed last night thinking about how can we make this happen, how can we get you? So he was very much the white corner of their dreams. And speaking of, you know, great tandem. I like that Zach was polite

and understood that Jordan's point was fantastic and he addressed Jordan's point. Thank you, Zach. Whereas Bo and I are just trying to like annoy our co-hosts at all times and not actually addressing those points. So I think we could work well as a foursome and we are. I want to hear from you. There's a formula here.

Yep. I agree. I agree. I want to I want to hear Zach about some things that you guys have seen there at camp that the average fan, Eagles fan, or just nationally, wouldn't be privy to that you're seeing on the field. Jihad Campbell is out there. That was like a nice surprise nationally. Like whatever, wherever you want to go on like what you're seeing out there that's been eye-opening. Yeah. So like I guess to answer this question well, I need to go with non-high profile players

because I could say A.J. Brown looks really good. And I don't think your audience will be that surprise. Let me write that down. Let me write that down. That's important. I do like hearing that, though. Like, I do like hearing that him and Quignan are going at it. Like, that's exciting. But no, it'd have to be a little more under the radar. Like, Jihad Campbell is definitely one that I'm curious to hear.

Exactly. Day one of training camp, seeing Jihad Campbell out there was a bit of a surprise. We didn't know. Well, first off, Vic Fangio said it was going to be August. And then here it is in mid-July, and he's out there. He's working up the depth chart now. Week one seems not just realistic, but I expect him to be a starter in week one. And maybe it's just because I've covered the Eagles for 14 seasons now that I'm not used to seeing linebackers who look and play like this.

Like, I mean, I saw Jordan Hicks and Nigel Bradham and, you know, the late career, D'Amico Ryan's, obviously Zach Bond last year. But the Eagles aren't known for a high-level linebacker play. Jihad Campbell just looks different. The length that he has, the speed in which he plays with, you know, and he's still learning and he's still rehabbing here. But you can, his presence is evident out there. that's one. And then the other one, and I mentioned this earlier, is that Moro Gimo is so disruptive for the Eagles. Jalen Carter hasn't been in team drills yet. And you just see how on that, on that defensive interior, you see the way Moro Jemo is playing. Now, the caveat

is he's going against Tyler Steen. And Tyler Steen's the big question on the Eagles offensive line. Really, they have four all pro pro bowl caliber linemen and then a right guard question. So Tyler Steen, this is, you know, something both talks. about in my six years doing a show with him is in these training camp settings is it your you know the player who's playing well is that good or the player he's playing against the struggling and so I'm fascinated to see how the right guard situation shakes out it's fat it's interesting to me because i um jad campbell you almost have to understand what all he can do if you're vic fangio and his and his coaching staff understand and like okay can he move around for example because they're pretty

good. They're going to be fine at inside linebacker in the foreseeable future. But like can he move around? Do you expect I mean, if like you mentioned at the top of the show, if this pass rush doesn't quite pop the way that they wanted to, if they don't have that extra player so they can rotate their fronts the way that they want them to,

is he a player who you could see moving around? He was one of our favorite prospects coming out in the draft for that reason because you really saw a limitless potential with where you could play him. Well, and it's interesting because the ceiling for Jihad Campbell, like the upside, feels like Zach Bonn, being able to do everything

and have that physical presence. And so in, you know, in the dreams of Vic Fangio, having the ability to have both of those guys on the same, on the field at the same time, both being able to do everything does feel like it unlocks some things. And, you know, Harry Roseman, you talk about the versatility when they drafted him. He threw the Michael Parsons convent, comp on him. And by the way, that's the second time this offseason, somebody from the Eagles has done that. Jordan Milata just threw that to Jalix Hunt earlier this summer. I wonder if that's like a needle poke, a purposeful needle poke from the Eagles to the Cowboys. But with Jahad Campbell, he's been given a little bit more to do every day at camp so far.

So, you know, he starts working with the twos and he starts getting sprinkled in with the ones. Yesterday or Tuesday's practice, we saw him practice like calling the plays with the defense for the first time, with Zach Bonn off the field for the day. And so, yeah, my expectation is that come week one, those two guys are going to be on the field together on every down. And Vic is going to have some interesting stuff for them to do. I love that Zach Bonn. If you had told me a year ago that Zach Bonn would have this sort of impact, not just that he got that big contract and that he was so key to winning the sewer role.

But literally, I think the rest of the league is thinking about linebackers in a way that like your inside linebackers better be able to be part of the pass rush or else you kind of can't keep them on the field. anymore. And Jod Campbell, I do wonder if he could be like a Dantah High Tower type of player. I know he's not nearly as big, but I'm excited. That makes me think about Vic. And the dreams of Vic Fangio, I said. I know. My question for you guys, is Vic Fangio the last honest, notable NFL coach at the podium. I think so. And it is such a pleasure. I love him so much. I mean, yesterday. So to take you through it, we got, we had Monday's practice where, Like, Kili Ringo and Adori Jackson had been sort of rotating every other drill, essentially, as who was going to be the first team outside cornerback. And on Monday, Adori Jackson got more of the reps.

It seemed like it had changed a little bit, and it was maybe going in his favor. And so the questions to Vic Fangio, the morning before the next practice, he's asked about Adory Jackson, as if that's the way that the competition is going. And, like, he could not have thrown more cold water on Adori Jackson if he was on fire. Like, no, he's talking about, listen, this guy, he's got to prove who he thinks he can be. Like, the Titans didn't re-sign him. The Giants didn't resign him. I didn't even watch tape on him. Howie Roseman said he wanted him.

How he gets who he wants. Oh, I love it. He's talking about him the way that he talked about Devin White and Bryce Huff last summer. And so, like, all of a sudden, Keeler Ingo gets all the reps yesterday, maybe not so fast with the Dori Jackson. Yeah, my answer to that question is, I hope not. I'm 39 years old. I hope you're doing this for a long. long time. So I hope he's not the last coach who answers this. Well, I think what you, what you need is

maybe he's the last one right now, but when the other guys get older, it's just that then they can stop caring too. I'm an optimist by nature. So my hope is that other coaches see that if you're matter of fact, if if, if like you, you say publicly what you say behind the scenes, he still won a Super Bowl. He had the number one defense. It didn't hurt him to be transparent. So I want to believe that, but that will not happen. But can't you see? It's a good. Stump speech, though. Can't you see this blowing up? And I don't know if you have more of Vick stories, Zach, but hearing that, hearing him basically say, well, that's like a Howie guy. It's that one of my guys. Like the fact that he's feeling willing to say that publicly,

my mind immediately fast forward to the moment where this all, at some point, things have to go wrong. And there will be some sort of Vic Howey clash. Maybe it's in like 2028. Like it might not be for a long while. But I do look forward to the day that like Vic just says something that is the entire storyline in Philadelphia for weeks on end. I got to say, though, they spent $17 million on a linebacker. They took a linebacker in the first round this year. They're not rotating edge rushers like they did in the past. I think Howie is all in on the Vic Fangio experience right now.

He's being changed for good. And for those of, you know, for the national fans who don't know this story, the funniest thing of the Vic Howey interplay is the story of Zach Bonn from last year. where Vic tells the story, basically, that Howie brings him, you know, tape of Zach Bond. Like, this guy's going to be a good special teams player for us. Maybe like a fourth edge rusher will help out there. And Vic watches like two minutes of tape. He's like, oh, this is going to be my starting inside linebacker.

Okay. Right. And never gave the other guys a chance and just was there the whole time and meant what he said. I love it. Oh, my gosh. I love it. Okay. So you guys, because coming back from, you know, the highest of highs and we've seen this

team compete at the very highest level, we've seen them lose a Super Bowl. we saw the entire season unfold like a slow-moving car crash after that, and then they rebounded and won the entire thing. This is a Jalen Hertz offensive line, Saquan Barkley receiver's question, but it's also an ecosystem question as well. What did this group learn from the last post-Super Bowl appearance that, or if they've learned anything, that they can apply first and foremost to the offensive side of the ball, but then also to the general dynamic and energy of

the team. Yeah, it's a great question because it's something I've thought a lot about. And I think you look at this from front office. You keep giving her great question, best questions of the day, best questions possible. I'm not getting anything over here. What if they're good questions? Greg, my antenna is up there too. It's like this is pre-planned. So 2018 was considerably different in that, you know, the quarterback was coming off a major injury. It was an older team. And so I think the roster,

The resources that they have, it's considerably different there. But I think from, you know, and then you can even see in like their approach in 2018, Doug Peterson's message was this is the new normal, right? And actually like a few days before the season, Malcolm Jenkins even told Doug Peterson to take all the Super Bowl stuff out of the locker room. They were clinging on too much. The message from the Eagles very much now is that was last year. They're not even defending champs.

But from an offensive perspective, I think, what I'm real curious to see is how much they lean into what they did last year compared to how much they evolved. So if you think about 2022 going into in the 2023, the offense did not evolve. The offense, what they tried to do was refined what they did well the year before, and it was not a good offense or not a consistent offense in 2023. Nick Siriani's spoken quite a bit right now about evolution. And so I really think that I expect them to pass the ball more. I expect them to be more dynamic through the air. And they're Eagles fans who say, wait, you have Sequin Barclay. You have the best offensive line in the NFL. Why not just stick to what they did last

year? I don't expect that to be the case. I think this is going to be an offense that evolves from last season. Yeah, I think it's going to be marginal. I think they're still going to want to lean mostly on Saquan Berkeley, but they need to take more shots down field than they did last season, you know, Jalen Hertz is so good at throwing the ball downfield, and that was his lowest percentage in his career in throwing the ball 20 yards or more downfield. A.J. Brown needs the ball a little bit more. He spoke earlier this offseason at the beginning of camp. He's like, listen, I think I'm the best receiver in football. I want to put a stamp on it this year, but I also want to do what's best for the team, and I will.

And that is a tough thing for him, not in like a locker room drama standpoint, but he thinks he's the best receiver in football. I don't disagree with him. Every time they throw him the ball, it's going to be a good result. you know, his yards per target is higher than Sequin Barclay's yards per carry, but the team is built a certain way and they want to lead on that offensive line, and that's reasonable. I do think, you know, it is interesting compared to two years ago. We spent so much time talking about what is the defense,

the offense going to look like with a new offensive coordinator in Brian Johnson. Jalen Hurts has another new offensive coordinator again. This happens to him every year. And we haven't talked a lot about Kevin Petulow. It hasn't really been a big story in Philadelphia yet. And I don't know if that is because he and Siriani are so closely linked. And you think back to what went wrong in 2023, some of it was that I don't think that Nick Siriani fully trusted just handing over the keys to the offense to Brian Johnson.

And he was incentivized in his mind to meddle a little bit more and be more involved in the offense. I think that will be less the case because Petulow is his guy. And I also think, you know, maybe just the lessons of what happened in 2023 matter. But the other truth is that more than it's Nick Siriani's office, offense and Kevin Petulow's offense. It's Jalen Hertz's offense. And I think you're still going to see sort of the same target distribution that you have always seen under Jalen Hertz. And it's going to come down to what he does more so than what Petulow does. And it was a mediocre offense for most of last

year. That's the, that's the craziest thing to me. It was 13th in efficiency, according to DVOA. And then you see Jalen Hertz at his very best, obviously, in those two Super Bowls in the NFC championship. And it has such a high ceiling. So there's so much room for improvement. I think that's that's reason to be happy, but you said it hasn't been a big story. I mean, Kevin Petulah will be a big story like September 5th. If they have a bad offensive like opening night, then suddenly it's the biggest story in town. You guys are the best at what you do. I love listening to you. Check out the P-H-L-Y Eagles podcast. Check out Zach Berman's writing wherever it is. And yeah, Jordan played high school tennis. So I'm feeling good. If we get out

there. I was the two spot. It is on, I know you're not supposed to root, but root for the Eagles to get back. And then somewhere in the San Francisco area. We're going to be there anyway. Okay. Then we're doing it. It's happening.

Zach. You don't get a studio like that and not go to Super Bowl. Start practicing. We'll see you guys. Appreciate you. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thanks, guys.

That was great. Never get tired of talking to them. I love them so much. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. How excited did you get hearing about Chad Campbell? I got goosebumps. I'm so freaking.

and stoked. That's awesome. And he will be playing in the preseason. And yeah, we're going to have you covered all preseason long with our takeaways every Sunday night, me and shook. But we still got a little time. Yes, our next show is going to be the first fantasy football show of the season. We're going to do a primer with two of the best in the game, Evan Silva and Pat Dardy, two of my former co-workers at Road to World. But we'll also have a little update from the Hall of Fame game to start the show.

Yes, that's right. Our next show is actually going to recap a football game being played in America on a football field. Football's back. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game

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I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football. Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

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