NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Titans-Steelers Week 9 TNF Recap

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

Hero Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Dave Dameshek to recap the Week 9 Thursday Night Football matchup between the Titans and Steelers. First, Gregg explains why this game was the Steelers' best offensive game of the season (3:00), breakdown the Titans performance and how Levis is here to stay (24:12), and Dave presents a stat to signify the importance of the QB rookie deal (42:19).  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Give it to Henry. Henry is going to try to get to the goal line. That does. Touchdown. Pick it. To the end zone. Touchdown.

And there it was. The Ante Johnson finally gets into the end zone. Levis steps up, fires, and it's picked off. Kwan Alexander, Cimension. Kwan Alexander finishes it off for the Steelers. You knew they had to win tonight, 20 to 16, the moment I booked Dave Damashek, who helped birth this podcast by helping Dan and Mark Mark out and putting them on the back of his podcast, the old Dave Damasek football program.

I knew something magical would happen with the Steelers, that they would look like the inferior team for most of the game. And then they would have a game-winning drive because that's what the Steelers do. They are five and three. And yes, my guest is Dave Damashek, the host of the minus three podcast with our old friend Eddie Spaghetti, Kevin Hensch is on there. Dave Damasek, I was glad. I thought it'd be fun podcasting if we had to.

an angry check with the loss, but I'm happy to see my friend happy. I appreciate that. You're looking well, the boss, back from your European swing, you and the fellas, glad that went well for you, glad even more that the Pittsburgh Steelers survived another knuckleball game. It is remarkable. It really is. The other side of the equation is that that's what the Steelers do to everybody, no matter how good or bad they are, every game. As you always have to just understand that what Mike Tomlin wants, whether you like it or not, even in the year of the Lord 2023, his goal isn't to just win, it's to win every game 12 to 11. And that results in ugly ball on both sides of things. So listen, they survived again, so be it. And you know

what? I think they survived in a more replicable way that should give the Steelers fans a little bit of optimism. That last interception by Kwan Alexander in there partly because Cole Hocom gets hurt. You're without Minka Fitzpatrick. So you got some holes here in the secondary. You don't totally trust your quarterback Kenny Pickett. We'll get to all that. We'll start really talking about the Steelers. And then, yes, Titans fans who do want to listen this. We'll get to Will Levis because I think big picture wise, Will Levis is probably the biggest story in this game. I think we've met a gentleman in the last two weeks who's now going to be part of our lives, I believe, for many years to come.

So that's always interesting. But the Steelers are the team in position for the playoffs. And I would say, and I've watched every Steelers game, that this was probably their best offensive game of the season, that they had a 10. Imagine that. I mean, that's wild. They had a 10-play drive to start the game for a touchdown. That was nice.

They had three other drives, 10 plays or more. And when they got the ball back with about nine minutes to go, I thought the way they run offense, look, their best chance to win might be to go run an eight, you know, have an eight-minute drive. They can't go down the field. They don't really trust picket. Once it gets in long yardage, they seem like they're in trouble. But at least they were running the ball. They were setting themselves up.

And when they needed picket to make one big throw at the end of the game, he did it. He dropped it in the bucket to Deonti Johnson, who made a really nice catch along the sidelines that was on a third and long, that was part of their 94-yard touchdown drive to take the lead. And then they didn't let Pickett throw the ball again the rest of the game, essentially, and it worked. It's remarkable how this formula seems to work for them, but I have seen since the buy picket playing at a reasonable level. Maybe not even as good as he was as a rookie, but at a level where you have a chance to win. I wasn't seeing that the first five weeks. The first five weeks felt like a mirage.

Now he at least looks competent enough that it's something. something to build off. Well, you know, old news. And in fact, you are the one who sort of responded to my cynicism five, six, seven years ago when it was starting to set up that, you know, Guy at the, QB at the end of his rookie contract, you got to shell out 40, then I guess it was 35 million, 40 million. And I'll shame the devil, you can't give that to Matt Ryan. And you pointed out, hey, you know, they are raising that cap.

to accommodate those quarterbacks, but there is sort of a ebb and flow to it. And it does every year or three kind of catch up with teams, like, we can't afford this guy who ain't worth the 40 or 50 million. So, sorry for that setup, because that's not where the Steelers are. They're in the sweet spot. Year two of their rookie QB, I mean, of their youngster QB, well, not that young. He's mid-20-ish. But either way, you know, the, the, the, the, I.

Oddity is, as you say, all they need theoretically, given that this is supposed to be a defense dominant team, the offensive line, that's been the big disappointment to me nine games through or eight games through, I should say, in nine weeks, is I thought that the offensive line was going to be collectively a position of strength, and it hasn't really been that. That's been, I mean, all the Matt Canada stuff overstated, in my opinion. And, you know, I thought Kenny Pickett was going to be the steady. hand, you know, take care of the ball and all that. Classic game manager. But the thing that has plagued him all season long, and I'm sure you've observed it, is he misses wide open

throws. And he did it tonight. And what's damning is they're right. I mean, they are, the throws he misses all season long are directly over the line of scrimmage, about 10 yards, 10 yards depth. It's what, do you not see it? He's either late or just flat out misses it. And yet he does the most remarkable thing in sports. We always talk about clutch and whether clutch exists. And in fact, clutch is maintaining your level when it gets hottest. Kenny Pickett does the opposite. He's, he is the bizarro Clayton Kershaw who goes high level all season. And then when the playoffs start, it's a diminished version of the stud pitcher. Kenny Pickett somehow actually plays better in the fourth quarter. What gives? I have, I have no explanation. I guess I don't. I don't know

if it's going to keep up forever. The numbers support you. They showed it. I always watch, you know, this is the most football hipster thing about me, or maybe not the most. You would say I was one. I love the next-gen stats prime vision cast, me and the boy, watch it, and it's beautiful. And they show the numbers for Pickett, but the first three-quarters and the fourth quarter this year, last year. It's all actually true. He's second in the NFL in fourth quarter or overtime comebacks over the last two years, too. And that's with, that's with Kirk Cousins in first place, not two guys who you think coming up big,

but he does have the knack for it. Part of it is that they're always trailing and they have a chance to go win a game and they're always in one score games. But you're right. He misthrows early in this game. There was one to Pickens, which killed a drive that was on a third Nate

was right over his end. There was one early to Deonti Johnson just sails right over his end. There was a dirt ball at one point. And he even said in the post-game interview with Amazon, just, yeah, he was really pissed off at himself. And he said, excuse me for my language. I was like, you don't need to say, excuse me for pissed off. That's, that's too much.

He's keeping it classy. That's the way he does it. The, yeah, and the other one that he missed, too, was he had Connor Hayward to my earlier point, wide open at the goal line directly in what would look to be his line of sight and just doesn't even look at him. So he's got an issue. You know, one of my guests on this program, J.P. Acosta, a young writer who was with SB Nation, you know, pointed out his spray chart tonight where he's throwing the ball. And he's like, this is a high school offense. He can't do anything over the middle.

In high school, it's counterintuitive, but everything's on the boundary because that's where they can see better, even though it's further to throw it. And teams play the Steelers in a certain way. They play backed up. They play zone. And they just try to prevent the long ball and the backshund. shoulder throws, because that's what he's good at. That's like the one thing they're good at. Now that Deontay Johnson is healthy, that it gives them something else they can maybe be good at. It's not just that. That's what George Pickens is good at. But at a certain point,

Kenny Pickett's got a need to be better than just those throws. But tonight, he got it done. And the reason I say they had the best looking offense is definitely the best game running the ball all game. And you said you're disappointed with the offensive line. But they protected Pickett well tonight and they ran the ball well tonight. So tonight was a nice night for their offensive line. I completely agree with that and it does feel like they're starting to turn the corner slow going as it is. I mean, as I said earlier too, I get the Canada concerns. I see the limitations and all of that. It's now crossed the line into being group think nonsense. It's just the abject job. It's not Matt Canada's fault that Kenny Pickett is missing wide open guys.

But what about the fact he's on the sideline tonight and then suddenly everything looks better? Matt Canada on the sideline, he's a totally different guy. Yeah, right. What do you think that was about? Accountability? You think that's some old coach T thing? Like, Matt, you're going to have to look him in the eyes when you, when you, when you, I mean, I don't know what the, what the notion was. I listen, it worked out.

Things aren't working and so it worked and try something different. Here's a little sunshine for you. And you know me well enough to know that I am not, I, that I'm not optimistic about any of the teams that I root for. But you always pick the Steelers record right. What was your prediction before this season? You're always like one game or right on. I've never been more than a game off. And as you may recall, six straight years, I hit it on the nose.

I went with 11 and 6 this year. And I think that's exactly where they're going to wind up. And they might. I mean, that's the thing. They've played poorly. Sorry to cut you off. They've played poorly and they've gotten to five and three. Our friend Mark Sessler said all off season, they're winning 12 games.

So he won up to you. I mean, at some point, a team that looks bad in his four and three usually ends up starting to play better. And then they'll win more games, and that's what I'm frightened. Well, I mean, I think the thing that specifically with this game and all the hand-ringing again on the banks of the Three Rivers, I don't know if Football America is obsessing over the nitty-gritty with personnel on the Pittsburgh Steelers. But, you know, a lot of concern about why is in Broderick Jones, the first-round draft pick, getting the shot over Chukes on the right side, which he did tonight on Thursday night football or Dan Moore.

People are indifferent about which tackle he replaces. Just, dude, you go put him in Broderick Jones. You got to put him in there. Dude, he's a first round pick. JPJ, how come he's not playing? Well, you see why when you watch a game like this. You have to fuel the plane at 30,000 feet. You want the high pedigree specimens on the field, of course.

But on the other hand, then they make rookie plays like JPJ made a handful of times. I also think Nuke Hopkins really. J.P.J.B. and Joey Porter Jr. I'm sorry, yes. I was working short. I even had to think about it for a second. I'm like one of those people who who likes a band. Just refer to band members by

their first name like they're my friends. You see when Jerry was when he was jamming during space, like you know, drums, man. Man, Bob was bad. He was, man, he was grooving with. Like, you know, like, who are you talking about? Are these your friends in the garage? No. No, no. I was talking about the big show. Anyway, yes.

Joey Porter Jr. is coming on, but made a couple of boneheaded plays. Broderick Jones really set the Titans up in a great spot at midfield, essentially, with taking his helmet off on the field. So, you know, fits and starts as far as that goes. I will say optimistically, at this point, you would like to think Joey Porter Jr. becomes a bigger factor, not less. You would like to think Broderick Jones becomes a position of strength for you out there the rest of the way. And I really do think, And, you know, we can talk about Kyle Shanahan's offense and the fungibility of receivers and otherwise. But the Steelers need to have George Pickens and Deontay Johnson on the field or they're kind of going to be a high school offense.

I mean, that's just the fact. Yes. Oh, George Pickens is down for four. Deonti Johnson's going to miss the next four games when he got hurt in week one. I knew that they were going to be bonk in their heads on the ceilings for the next month when you don't have one of those two guys. they're just not at that place roster-wise or even philosophically. Or they can't take advantage. They don't have an offense that can make up for it.

Even if Canada's not as bad as everyone thinks, you're absolutely right. I thought that too because Deonti Johnson, if I had to choose just one as great as Pickens is at this point in their careers, just to help Kenny Pickett along this offense. Like, Deonti Johnson is probably more valuable because he's going to create more first downs ultimately than Pickens, who cost the Steelers four points tonight on a nice throw from,

pick it just by not getting his foot down. Yeah, that was wild. That was weird. But did you see the DeAndi Johnson? I mean, he didn't cross paths directly or did. No, yeah, no, Antonio Brown was long gone by the time. But he gave the AB special on that deep shot up the right sideline on the game winning drive. Just as the ball's about to get there, a little ghost push, little ghost push. Ref can't flag that one when you, when you short arm the DB to create just enough space. I got a little deja vu. He, he's, I think he's, I think he's, He's a great player. He had gotten 771 snaps without a touchdown.

The Titans sort of dared the Steelers to run all night. They were pointing that out on next-gen sets. I try to give them credit. Sam Schwartzstein, I believe, is his name, saying that they play with the lightest box in the league, like six guys in the box, and they did it the whole night. At like no point were they ever afraid of the Steelers running.

They thought, we're bigger and stronger than you. we're going to be able to stop your lame running attack, and it has been pretty lame all season and have extra guys on the back end. But it didn't work because Najee Harris ran pretty well. It was more about the holes to me, but he still broke a few tackles. And then Jalen Warren is a dynamic player.

He's one of your three best offensive players in my mind, along with the two wide receivers. He had 88 rushing yards. He had 25 yards receiving, and he made that touchdown in the last drive really happened with just like a special run. That's what you need. It's what the Patriots don't have, for instance.

They have no special players who just make plays on their own. They rely on their coaches to do everything. On defense, you got some special players, though. And Alex Highsmith, I'm not going to say he's playing better than T.J. Watts's the defensive player of the year candidate. But tonight he did. He had five quarterback hits. He had eight pressures.

Next-gen stats says he's got four games with at least seven pressures. The only person in the league, I believe, that has that is Miles Garrett, I think, other than him. so that's he's very consistent he's very good and he him and watt were bigger difference makers than any of the titans defenders and it's true they were kind of upside down almost in the way the game typically flows which is the t j watt comes on as the game goes on and wears down the uh that no he was relatively quiet he still had a sack and some pressure the first quarter i thought if he is getting off like this in quarter one and this many o linemen on the titans are are going over to the sidelines.

I don't know who's going to be left to try and stop one of the five best non-quarterbacks in football the rest of the night. But yeah, to your point, you know, they swung help over against T.J. Watt, and they were moving them around, which I love to see that. But, I mean, I do think, you know, it's easy to get swept up. And, boy, they are one ugly team. This team has no chance. And I'm not saying in 2023 that they're going to compete with the superhero

quarterbacks come January chiefs or Bengals. or any of those teams. But I do think that, you know, if you're looking at the pieces the last couple of years, the Marvin Liao is not a name that most football fans are probably tracking too much. But he's a difference maker up front. They are starting to piece together,

not guys that hold their own. Benton is a good young player. Ben is a Nate Tice's favorite. Right. He's a good player. The concern is picket. I mean, that's the ceiling on them. it feels like, except for the fact that it's, you know, I talk about being jammed into this

uncomfortable position of optimism with these Steelers. And I'm forced to because everybody else is so cynical from local media there and the fan base doing its impression of Philadelphia Eagles fans and including everybody and all that kind of stuff all the time is strange. But, you know, I think Pickett is the guy. who has a chance to, as you say, the premise is not carry this team. Josh Allen, the Steelers, to the playoffs. Can he pick it? Take care of the ball, make a couple few special plays. And it's crazy how few of those he seems capable of making for at least three quarters. But he does have a knack of turning it on. And as far as that goes, so five and three and where

are they in the standings? If you know, if you feel like this is a terrible team, an ugly game to watch, That's what they want to do, first of all. And secondly, they're in the playoff picture. And the only way really, in 2023, with very few exceptions, the Eagles fan is feeling good right now, right? Sure. The Dolphins fan. Unless they lose Sunday night. When are we going to talk about the fact that you are exactly like Mike McDaniel?

You kind of look like him. No offense to Mike McDaniel, but you're a slightly more attractive version of him. Wow. Maybe we've got to put you in the glasses. but you know your vibe you've got that you've got that subtle sense of humor and everything i think this is a compliment to you and the mike macdaniel there are no losers in this equation but i mean so dolphins fans are happy texans fans are probably feeling good because they feel like well we got our guy and we know that we're going to be good and brighter days are ahead and maybe now

titans fans feel that way about levis but after that who's happy right now you know who chiefs fans probably not they know that that team hasn't played very well and and and i'm definitely a lot of grumbling. There's not a lot of enjoying the moment, not a lot of enjoying the where you're at. It's just whatever happened last week. So the Bengals, the Bengals fans are happy. Okay, now that's turned to court. Yeah, I mean, there just isn't as much splash, obviously. Empirically, that's true. But statistically, it bears out too with point totals this season and otherwise. But, you know, the thing about these knuckleball Steelers is that remains true to finish the point is, okay, Mitchell Tribes, the Jags are a good team. And the Steelers,

once again, turned that thing into a knuckleball last Sunday. And I don't know what would have happened if it would have been Pickett instead of Trubisky with his magic fourth quarter powers. It was a one-score game. How do we know he wouldn't have done exactly what he's done every other time? He's been putting that spot in a close game. He tends to win it. They either get whipped once, two, three times a year lately.

They get annihilated by an outclassed. Otherwise, every game is somewhere around 13, 12. I mean, they're five and three. If they were in the NFC, like, better than any of the seven seed candidates. It's going to be tougher to be the seven seed in the AFC, but they're probably the most, they're about as likely as anyone. If I had to choose one today, they would probably be my seventh team. Am I, is that right? Yeah, they would be. Well, yeah, they would count them up. You count them up four divisions. I'm counting dolphins and

bills they're both in. Right. I'm counting who's ahead in the division right now. I'm counting Ravens and Bengals, and then I'd put the Steelers, because you look, you got, here's who's coming up for the Steelers. You finish with the tough three games, Bengals, Seahawks, Ravens, that's going to be tough. But before that, you have Packers, Browns, Bengals, or it's at Bengals, Cardinals,

Patriots, Colts. Those are a lot of winnable games, and I think they're going to get better. The one thing they got to do, and then we're going to take a break quickly and then talk Titans. Dan was right. He said, oh, it's you and Sheck, this is going to be a honk fest. He was like putting the over-under, you know, way higher

than our TNF average. The last thing I'll say, though, is to get to the playoffs, or at least to even be a reasonable threat to win that first playoff game, they can't be a team that when they get the ball back with 206 to go and the other team has three timeouts just loses two on their first run

and calls two more runs anyways. They just say, like, we don't even trust our quarterback to throw the ball one time. It's just Mike Tomlin is great, and he's one of the last coaches that'll ever be dragged into the 21st century in terms of like going for it on fourth down

or making aggressive decisions like that. But he was better when he had been a real quarterback. At some point, they will have to make decisions like throw the ball and not just decide, hey, let's go give the Titans a whole other drive and a chance to go win the game. And let's not even try to play football here because we're so afraid of Kenny Pickett.

I mean, I think the call there on third, first of all, they have thrown in that in a similar spot. this year, which actually surprised me. Well, they could have thrown on first down, too, because it was like you would have had the two minute warning. I just, I fully expected them to run the ball three times and punt there. And it was like you weren't even burning all the Titans timeouts. He still would have one.

So I'm just saying to throw up there in the middle of the field, you got to throw the ball there. At midfield, right, I agree with you. Of course, at midfield, third, nine, third and ten, whatever it was in that spot, there's no danger in not just throwing the ball, but taking a deep shot. You know, you're sack, you know, if you get sacked, okay, you pun it away. Just, you know, take care of the, make sure that there's not someone about the blindside you ate and will be all right. And if you, if you uncork it, throw it as far as you can, Ken.

Throw it as far as you can, fella. If it gets picked at the, you know, at the 10, all right, it's a punt. So fine. He just wanted to get rid of the timeout and it's like, that's very, Mike Ravel would have done the same thing. These two teams watching them are mirror images. We're going to take a quick break. Wait, wait, wait, I just want to say this.

I say, I say right now. You're still on after the break, Shaq. I understand, but I want to say here and now. I want to challenge Hans-Zus. I say we go four and a half hours or shame the devil. I'll say you. Let's go deal, Dawn. What do you think about that?

All night. Me and the boss. Dream come true. I mean, we'll keep talking even after we stop hitting record. We love to honk. All right, take quick break. We'll get, come back. All right, we're back.

for the first time this season actually just got in amica my beautiful wife and my daughter Ellis are both peeking out of the main house where i'm in the garage and they're they're just giving me a shush oh no they're like you are screaming and yelling you're like the whole neighborhood can hear you but i think this is just me getting tomlin turns every game into a knuckleball damashek turns every conversation into a shout fest welcome to it i mean i i would anyways Hansis is right. We won't spend as much time on the Titans, but I actually...

When you're going to talk about the Jets? Don't you see Zach Wilson? Don't you see he's going to be our hero? He's going to carry us until we get the A-Rod. Don't count us out of the playoff picture yet, boss. No one is. No one is. Will Levis.

He was the biggest story in this game to me just because he's new and I've seen the Steelers team. And I think they're building. I thought this Titans team I never count them out because they're the Titans and they're three and five but I don't even count them out for the seven seed either right now because I think they have something I watched that first game and I thought wow he did some really next level things not just those touchdown passes but he was like getting to the second read and when pressure was there he was making good decisions

he was like getting rid of the ball he was looking like a tough guy okay let's let's see it again now he's got to be on a short week he's going to be in Pittsburgh he didn't have two weeks to prepare for Atlanta and he played as well or better and you can point out a few misthroes in the second half and he got picked off there at the end when he's you know trying to make a play he's got to try to go for the end zone there and that was a nice play by qualna kwan alexander but man he looked like a dude he looked like a dude that's just like I'm going to be watching him play for the titans most every week for the next what six years eight years however whatever it turns out to he just looks like a dude because it doesn't seem too big for him.

He's clearly talented at throwing the ball down the field, and the game isn't going that fast. He's processing it all pretty quick, which I think was one of the big questions about him coming out of Kentucky, and he's obviously athletically very talented. So I could go through, like, which plays I loved, like the play where he threw it across his body, and Hopkins actually dropped it,

which was almost like, wow, why are you trying that pass? But it worked. It was a Mahomesian-type pass. but also some just like regular old third and nine like whole shots over a zone defense he he looks good and I think he made I mean just yeah I know that the the weird arm angles and you know throwing across basically two two yards behind the line of scrimmage all the way across the field from one sideline to the other or just about get your attention but yeah he just made some some real good strong arm throws throughout the night and the other thing we didn't even see tonight was him taking off, which he can do. He's a big physical runner when he wants to be. You know, I've told you this before. And you've poohed it. You've played skeptic to Damashek when I've claimed, unironically, I'm a QB whisper. Now, listen, I can't be a draft guru because I can't analyze the left guard from the Mac team who might go in the fifth round.

But with QBs, no one has a better track record than Damashik. Maybe it's good. Now, okay, I've had my misses. I had the late Ryan Mallet. That's the one you always point to. But I said, you can find it on social media, I suspect. I said three years ago, no, two and a half years ago, I said, this guy at Kentucky who transferred from Penn

State, Will Levis, is the real deal and he's going to be dynamite in the NFL. So, I mean, I don't know that I'm right two games in, but he does look like the real dear. Here's the question. All I know is you remember whatever slights anyone sends your way, even for a football take, like giving you grief about

the late Ryan Mallet rest in peace Of course I do How do you know So do you What do you have like I don't care what anybody says It's not that I don't care

I don't remember My brain is It's made of cheese I don't know I mean I remember Some of the football stuff But it all Thank you for not condescending to me

Because you could have put yourself In a better light By saying like I have better things to worry About you petuline ass You know That's how you should be No I mean

I'll certainly remember some slights but it has to be real personal it wouldn't be a football have i ever slided you no not that i remember you know damshek presents a tough exterior outside but do i he's a he's a i do he's a cuddly i am he's a oh gee tough guy that's for sure that's how everybody knows me they've got a quarterback they can't go back to ryan tanna hill the rest of this season is that will money is clin eastwood and unforgiven or is that dave damasheck i can't tell the difference both rugged souls. That's right. I'm a tough. Yeah, of course. And, you know, it's funny because I've been saying since, I don't know, February, March, April, what are the Titans doing holding on to

Ryan Tannahill at this point? Maybe it was post-draft. But either way, to me, the guy who, instead of Sam Darnold, Kyle Shanahan should have gotten Ryan Tannehill. Do you imagine if you plug him in right now. That was when I assumed that Brock Purdy wasn't possibly going to be ready to go by week one. I mean, he had major arm surgery we thought or sure. But still, Tanyhill is the solve or would have been for several teams. I don't know the state of his health right now. But if he had been 100% a week ago, do you suspect he would be on a contending team right now? Imagine him, if you could have just said, if you're the Vikings,

okay, we don't have Kirk. Come on up, Ryan Tanyhill. They would have been just fine. In that NFC, I think they would have had a chance to chase a playoff spot. They would have been the team, I think, that would have bothered, maybe a fourth round pick. And I think the Titans, if they had seen this first game from Levis and then now certainly, too, would have been ready to do it. The thing is, and it's a reminder, man, the preseason can be a lie. I mean, so often is.

But it can be a lie in the opposite direction, too, because I believe all the reporters and the way that Brable talked and the coaches, it wasn't just that Will Levis looked awful in the preseason. His training camp was reportedly awful. Like he just, when he was in the joint practice, it was actually against the Vikings. So maybe they weren't too high, too high on Tanna Hill. Maybe they saw something. I don't even know that like he could barely operate what was going on. It was just he wasn't ready for it, but you do kind of forget, well, that was eight weeks ago.

And training camp is only four weeks long. And he's had all that time in the building to continue to get better. And the regular season is just a totally different animal than being good in practice every day, too, at training camp. So who knows? Maybe he's stunk at practice the last couple of weeks, too. I don't even know. And he just knows how to play. But whatever it is, everyone said Malik Willis was out dueling him every practice, practice after practice.

And in the preseason, when we got to see it a little bit, like, oh, yeah. I mean, he's totally lost. And now, you know, he looks as good as any rookie. over the last two years in terms of his first two starts. Wouldn't that be funny if he ends up being the best of the bunch? It really is wild. The, you know, the certitude that we provide, what we give, you know, obviously Daniel Jeremiah. You remember him, right?

Yeah, he's the guy that said Darnold was the number one player in the general. Ah, zinging him. You better be careful with yourself. I don't know. I don't know who outweighs who over there at the NFL at this point. Oh, I think I know. I think it's the one on the NFL draft. Well, then keep on, keep on flapping your gums.

He'll make a call. I want the guy, I want the boss. He's out. But the, what was that way? I don't remember what we were talking. Oh, with, with, okay, yeah, that was a swing and miss from DJ. I do remember having that conversation. I feel bad now, you know.

I do bring up that one. But, you know, it doesn't bring up this. I do, I did, I've always been mad that. I didn't ask Justin Herbert if he ever brought it up that, you know, because Jeremiah is always around the Chargers, that he had Herbert, like, ranked 20th behind this guy. That would be a fun question to ask. Behind this guy, Ross Blacklock, who I, you know, was like,

I don't even know if he's in the league right now. Here's my question for you. Do you think now, this may sound like a hot take and perhaps that's what it stands as and the hyperbole and whatever else? Can you make a case when, hmm, why, why is that quarterback playing? well. What's going on with Jared Goff, this big resurrection from this guy? I have long said, if you, you know, my lament, you may recall, I don't remember when it was, eight, ten years ago, that how is it possible in a world of seven billion people? We can't find 32 people that can

halfway decently play quarterback in pro football. I think it's largely been solved. QB saturation, injuries aside, the injuries happen, but there are 30 to 35 guys that you could throw in there. spec, though. They're like, how come that guy in the fourth round worked out when the first round who everybody was in on? Agree or disagree? It's not the offensive lines, not the pass catcher. Maybe it's not even the quarterback. The most valuable thing you can have on your team in 2023 is a heady offensive coordinator. Is Ben Johnson more valuable than any player on that Lions roster? Maybe. Kyle Shanahan, what's the voodoo? He can make Brock Purdy work, and people say, hey, hey, hey, can't knock Brock Purdy.

You don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I mean, I can kind of take some shots at Brock Purdy when every other guy who's ever played for Kyle Shanhan is good, too, right? I mean, you see what I'm getting at. Respond. I guess I disagree, because they'll still think that eight to ten quarterbacks that maybe transcend that are more valuable. No, no, eight to ten. Three to six at tops. Lamar, you know, okay, I would even, you know.

But we've already seen. Lamar can't do it if he, and now he's resurrected here. That's what I mean. He transcends it. I mean, how many of these coordinators make that big a difference? You might be right. The good ones make as big a difference as Joe Burrow or Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. Here's the thing. Tim Kelly is not one of those guys.

Do you know who Tim Kelly is? He's the offensive coordinator in the play caller. Nobody knows who Tim Kelly is. But I can see right off the bat, Will Levis is a dude. And actually, you could see Ryan Tiena. When he got to Tennessee and he kind of matured in his career, he was enough of a dude that the play action scheme they ran helped him look like statistically,

EPA-wise, the top five quarterback link, no one believed that. But he was good enough. And so that to me is still more valuable than there's only so many of these great play colors. I don't know. Well, there are only so many of those QBs that are actual drivers who overcome mediocrity around them. Everybody else is sold as being that, but they're only, you know, three, maybe.

You know, you could boil it down to Mahomes and Burrow. And Josh Allen is, is, you're crazy. Howie long called him a freak show. Lamar, Josh Allen, Jalen Hertz, whatever. I'd even throw, those names you just threw out with not, you could not just plug them into any team. No, but if they're in a good system with a good enough coach, then they'll be, then they'll be a difference maker.

I think the Titans have a chance. I'm not putting him there either. I think another problem people do is like all the people just assume after two games, okay, like we were right about Levis and you guys are wrong about Bryce Young or this or like, okay, let's give it a little bit of time. But he looks like a dude who's going to be around. I feel pretty confident after two weeks of that. And that's great news.

I'm not giving up in this Titans team. Quietly their offensive line has been better this year. they improve from catastrophically bad for the last two to three years. And I've been saying this this year. Like, if you watch the Titans game, they're actually just like okay or maybe even slightly below average or maybe average. I don't know. But it's huge when you go from the worst in the league to like, okay,

it gives you a chance to grow. Nuke is playing pretty well. I like the way Derek Henry ran. They're like, they're a receiver short. They're a little short. Their defense isn't quite good enough for. a defensive-minded head coach, and they've put a lot of resources there. So they probably won't get it done, but their schedule is very easy, and they're the

titans. So I think they should be encouraged, and I think they might be in the mix here by the end. I think that's true, and that has a lot to do with the mediocrity around them. I mean, you think about the AFC North and all those games still upcoming between each other. Obviously, they're going to cannibalize each other, so that's going to knock them down. Who are you, I mean, the Jags are the team that legitimizes the, the, the, the, South, potentially. They may end up with the number of seasons. Jags are a real team. Jags have a defense and a quarterback. I'm saying, but, you know, the Texans are fun, but are they definitely going to play out the rest of the season here and be a threat

week in and week out? Eh, maybe not. I bet there's a, there's a chance for the Titans to your point with an easy schedule to be a factor. We thought in August, I assume you would agree when you looked at the AFC. I said more hyperbole, possibly from Dave, but I said, I don't think in the Super Bowl era, there has been as loaded a conference top to bottom. I don't mean high-end teams. I mean one through 16 that you would look at and say like, well, definitely that team and that, that you could cobble together a list of four teams that definitely weren't going to the playoffs. There were so many good teams that you thought had a chance. And now even five, six weeks and you're like, that team is not nearly as good as I

thought they were. And so based on the sea of mediocrity in which all these teams have ended up swimming in, you know, Steelers are fine. Browns may get in. You know, Chargers, I have a hunch. Well, this is a big one. Almost an elimination game in New York this weekend, right, between Zach Wilson and Justin Herbert. It's a little early for that. All right, well, you better get red hot after that if you're either one of those teams when you have to play the Bills and Dolphins again. or if you're the Charger, you still have the Chiefs and, you know, the Broncos are playing a wee bit better. Absolutely.

The Titans are only a negative 12 point differential on the year that Steelers are negative 30. The Titans, there's nothing better as a fan than feeling like, ooh, we might have a quarterback. I don't think the Steelers fans feel that way after tonight. Do you think, is that right? That is one consolation for the Titans. They lost the game, but I feel if I was a Titans fan,

I would be, if I was Justin Graver, the old Gravedigger. I'd be very excited about the future and maybe even this season they can make it. Grave Digger was a nice person. He's still alive. But yeah, I don't know why I talked about him in the past. He's celebrating his Texas Rangers

winning the World Series. He's over there working at Fox and he's covering it live sees his team win it live. It was like my first Super Bowl when I saw Randy Moss catch the game winning touchdown with just over two minutes to go to cap off the first undefeated season

in NFL history for the Patriots. I want to talk about that. Wait, wait, let's get back to that. Let's get back to that in one second. The one thing I want to say, the Titans fans and any football fan, if the game didn't go your way on Thursday night, or even if you're a Steelers fan and feeling frustrated, because this is the way.

You have to say even after a loss, like, Dave, Matt Canada's no good. They got fired at them. Tomlin, the standard ain't the standard no more. We don't win no playoff games anymore, all that kind of stuff. But, you know, we all just, bore witness to history. 8 v. 8.

Kenny Pickett wore number 8 against Will Levis, number 8. Now, of course, not enough to replace the all-time greatest eight-quarterback versus eight-quarterback matchup. Aikman versus Steve Young, but this is still noteworthy.

Maybe we'll look back on this one in a decade from now and say, you know what, it's time to amend the Akeman Steve Young thing, you know? So we saw a little bit of history. But now, speaking of history, what do you think about the Patriot may be trading Bill Belichick to who you haven't heard that that's the rumor this week is at the end of the season

they're going to trade them to the Washington commies I mean what do you think that's where Lombardi ended his career I hope that doesn't happen for Belichick as far as I remember Lombardy was mediocre and then more or less I got to check the facts but yeah I think he almost kind of died on the job like he quit and like it wasn't going you know it wasn't going well it yeah it's unceremonious i wouldn't want to see that happen but it's painful to watch this mediocre i like that's that you're a man of loyalty and honor and you wouldn't because a lot i'm sure you've heard patriots fans they're not very happy at all about what's going on i think the big

winner do you agree with this the big winner of the last three years and this season for sure is Tom Brady because now it's just been laid bare. The debate that went on for at least the last 15 years, like, who's more to do anything? Tom Brady or Belichick? Belichick or Tom Brady? It's pretty obvious that the guy left, went to play for Bruce Ariens in Florida somewhere, got drunk in his mid-40s and won the Super Bowl while Bill Belichick scuffles along. Funny how, I'm not saying he's a bad coach. And I certainly think that these people in New England say, like, man, maybe it's time for the old man to move on. He gets as much rope as he wants.

He delivered you all those Super Bowls. He writes his own ticket, right? I'm with that. I agree, and I've never liked that argument. Of course, it's the player that matters more, but it's the combination, and they were a beautiful combination. And I do like, I do like Beaumani Jones's take

that, like, he did win a Super Bowl without Tom Brady. It was Tom Brady's second year in the league when Tom Brady was, like, the 22nd best quarterback in the league. And I was like, that's a good point. But then that goes back to where we started 20 or 30 minutes ago, that when you're a quarterback, when you find the guy and he's still on his rookie deal, now you're in the sweet spot. Do you know the boss that even in the age of Tom Brady over the last, I forget what the number is? I think it's since the start of the millennium, if I counted this right above, you know, I'm not a numbers guy, but I think I counted this right. I think it's 49 or 51% of all Super Bowl starting QBs were on their rookie deals over in the last 23, 24 Super Bowls.

I mean, that's in the age of Brady when he was going to Super Bowls in his 15th year and whatever. So that's going to offset those, skew those numbers in favor of the vets anyway. And despite that, half the QBs, it's inarguable that that's where you want to be, obviously. The trick is to actually have the guy and not try to delude yourself into thinking because you used a first round pick on him. We got to make him work. It's year four.

We're sticking with it. I mean, okay. Matthew Stafford just won the Super Bowl. Patrick Mahomes just won the Super Bowl. I don't know. You can't tell me it's a disadvantage to have one of the best quarterbacks and the thing no matter what you're paying him.

Jalen Hertz didn't win it last year, but he played well enough. You just need a great quarterback. You need a great course of it. Okay, I'm trying to work. Why can't you work with me? And by the way, Vince Lombardi, God rest his soul. One of the greatest ever.

Maybe the greatest. Oh, I have another hot take. I haven't talked to you in a while. He had that whole run with the Packers. He was emotionally exhausted. He sat out one year. He couldn't stay on the sideline. So he went to Washington.

And he went seven, five, and two. Look who knows his history. Good for you. I'm checking it. He went to Washington, went seven, five, and two. Well, the part that I was checking on, unfortunately, was the circumstances. surrounding his death. And I believe he only coached that one year and had to step down because he got cancer.

And he did pass right away. But he was. That's not going to happen in Belichick. Yeah. He just walked off the field at the Orange Bowl after Super Bowl 2 after vanquishing Darryl LaMonica and company and went off into the sunset. In fact, as you point out, yes, people don't know that extra chapter of his coaching life. You know what?

While we're talking about Washington, I have one more hot take. I want to tell you real quick. We're proving hands is so right. I don't care. Good. Good. That's what I want to do. Okay.

That's what I want to do. I'm having a good time. I hope we're going till dawn. We're settling, man. We got like six, eight hours to go till sunup. Now listen, dig this. Here's my big one. Balochek, is he the best?

Don Shula? Overrated. Our pal handsome Hank Hodgson will agree with that. The diehard dolphins fan. Boy, what a wonder. Well, I'm not accepting this as a premise. He's not overrated. Yeah, he is.

Let me tell you why. He, okay. he makes the paradigm shift from we're a run team. We're a run team at Zonka and Mercury Morris and Jim Kick. And Bob Greasy is the most fraudulent. Oh, Shula's overrated. Shula. The most fraudulent, the most fraudulent Hall of Famer that exists.

And when people like, Eli Manning better not get into the Hall of Fame and so on, whenever people summon names like Bob Greasy's in the Hall of Fame. He threw five passes in a playoff game. And what were we talking about? I think he threw four passes in a full playoff game one. Talk about a passenger. Anyhow, he had Marino for all those years, got the one Super Bowl with him

because he blew the personnel side of it. But anyway, Bill Walsh is the real deal. You know who's the best Super Bowl coach? Joe Gibbs, that's who. He's the only one who did it with non-Holl-of-famers, and he did it three times. Yeah. That's amazing, right?

And then he went to a completely different sport that most of the football populace doesn't care about, but built like a dominant franchise as dominant in that entirely different sport, which to be, I'm no NASCAR expert. My son likes it. And it's like, that's, I think that just proves what a great coachy is. Anyone that could possibly have pulled that off and then done it in another sport, it's like,

it's unbelievable. Isn't it crazy the week that Bob Knight passes away? I knew this and I'd forgotten it, but it was brought up in all the memorials to Bob Knight. But Bill Parcells was on Bob Knight's Army basketball. coaching staff. That's wild, right? But, you know, Bo Jackson, I mean, Joe Gibbs is Bo Jackson of coaching, to your point, right? I mean, he left the highest level of football and went over and did stock car racing and then took

that over too. That's amazing. He did. I mean, he went a Super Bowl with Mark Rippin and with Doug Williams and with Joe Thysman. Three times he did that. Four Super Bowls in what? Was that nine, ten years? Remarkable.

He did also. NFC, return, you know, to the Washington team and go to the playoffs, I believe, with Mark Brunel. I don't know if anyone remembers that. I do remember that. You're right. Good for you. I thought that you picked up on football around like 2002.

But good for you. Well, that is. That's past that. I was always a fan, but it wasn't my job. Now we get paid to just honk and make my family yell at me for being too. loud late at night. Now it's time to keep it down for the for the next seven and a half hours we're gonna we're gonna whisper because it's nighttime now. Dave Damasek is the host of the minus three podcast. They've got a fun little like 15 minute pregame at 4 p.m. on Fridays. What is that?

You got the extra points. It's part of the extra points you got you got a lot cooking over there. You got our old friend from NFL media Eddie Spaghetti with you. It's a lot of yeah. He's a Eddie Spaghetti is in his usual spot behind the glass, chiming in as he's wanted to do. And Kevin Hensch, very funny, deeply knowledgeable sports fan, big comedy writer and all that. But diehard Boston sports fan. My Patriots-based opinions are well-warned, if you listen to minus three. I'm throwing some of those at you. But, yeah, listen, with all due respect.

Most of your opinions eventually become well-worn. The good ones, the good ones. You've got to reuse them. This was, you know, your old friend Emma would always point that out. It was from her favorite times of the year when you'd bring out the old. That's right. Yeah. Most overused bits, I think she called it.

All right, listen, I have three or four thoughts in my head, and I've leaned on them for the last three decades. It's worked out halfway decently. But yes, it occurs to me, it did occur to me over summer. I don't know who decided that. pregame shows needed to be more than a half hour. And then they went to an hour. And then they went to three hours and the four hours. And now they're all about like, and I like to feel good story. You know, you know me, Dave, one of the great empaths of society. I like to hear people's nice stories and their journeys about like, he may be a superstar now, but he was born without a head. And then, you know, like you hear those stories and they feel good and the nice music. I love it. I still need them right before the game. Tell me those on Tuesdays or Wednesdays before the game. Just tell me who's going to win by how much who's going to have a good game. We do it all in 15 minutes.

Then you can get out the door and live your life. 15 minutes, the minus three pregame show. It's a breeze, lots of fun. It's a little bit if you're old school enough. It's a little bit like the shame report projecting ahead for the week, over 15 minutes, good times. I did love the shame report. And I like that idea that it's quick. We don't need all the time.

I mean, I'm glad that the pregame shows are key. and a lot of our friends and, you know, this industry employee, that's fine, but I'm with you. I needed to be short for newer listeners of the show. And I find more and more, it's crazy, you know, of course it happens. Listeners drop off, new listeners come on. I've been told by many listeners, like, they started listening after Wes was on the show. Like, of course, we have plenty of new listeners. It's been a few years.

That sort of blows my mind, but we love hearing about them and learning and stuff like that. It's like, so people might not know, you know, that the very first iteration was the ATL debate club, Mark Sessler, Dan Hansis, on the back of the Dave Damashek football program. The flames. That's what we call them, because they'd break out the flame throwers. The flames would make the scene. Flame on, you know?

So we owe a debt to Dave, but not just for that, just for his friendship and helping the whole thing go at the NFL and now over with the minus three podcast. It's been a pleasure. It's been a thin slice of heaven, Dave. All right. I guess we can, we'll do this in parts, but we are going to do 10 hours worth of podcast. We can just keep talking after, but this is the time to hit the music, Randy.

Let's go. For Dave Damascard. I can still talk more, Randy. You better get in sooner or else I'm going to start going. It's been fun. Titan Steelers, they gave us a good game. They gave us a lot to talk about. Dan was right.

We're always going to find a lot to talk about it. Until Sunday. Seven and three and get them brownies. He'd the call. This is an IHeart podcast.