NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - TJ Watt's Future and Ideal 3 Round Draft

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic and Ross Tucker of the Ross Tucker Football Podcast to give you their ideal first three rounds of the NFL Draft. First, the crew reacts to some possible drama brewing between TJ Watt and the Steelers (03:45), how Geno Smith became a Raider (08:08), Terron Armstead and Julio Jones retiring (13:08) and more! After the break, Ross (23:25) and Jourdan (33:30) give you the first three picks of their ideal draft.  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're still on island time. I'm Greg Rosenthal in the Chris Wesseling podcast studio with a pair of, a surprising pair of guests, Jordan Rodriguez of the Athletic and Ross Tucker of a million Ross Tucker named podcasts. Welcome. Welcome, Ross. Yeah, this is awesome. I'm out here for the, they used to call it the broadcast boot camp. I thought they still did. They don't call out there.

No, it's the broadcasting and media workshop. So at some point they changed. I actually sounds less intense. I went to the first one they ever had, 2007 NFL film was while I was still a player. I did a million terrible things yet I still have a career in the media, which is nice. And I'm a huge fan of Jordan and the work that she does. So it's very cool to be on with her. So we, I think we made Greg feel really left out, Ross. We might have to apologize him because Ross and I spent the first five minutes of studio time as you were like busy trying to put a show together, um, fan girling over each other. So I love it. And I love like the instant pressure that this podcast has because we're taping this during broadcast bootcams lunch break,

which, which like started a little late. So we are on the clock here that we have to finish this show quickly. And yet we have three of the biggest honkers that I've ever seen who just like like to talk a lot. I know that because, you know, Ross and I go way back. I believe we were once on like a yes network show together, like one or two that I, that I was on where I was the fantasy football guy. We were definitely on some NBC sports channel shows together. And that network doesn't even exist anymore. And Ross had such a signature time at our friend Matt Casey's wedding that whenever my wife, Amika, hears his voice doing a game on TV. She's like, oh, I recognize that voice. I recognize that voice from the wedding. That's awesome. And Jordan, I appreciate that you, you looked happy to see me when

we side each other. It's been a couple weeks, which is actually the longest. I believe we haven't seen each other since you've started here at NFL Daily. But I have to be real with the audience and we're going to get going. I took a vacation this week. I was gone from Friday to Wednesday. We put up some shows that were in the can. So to me, I'm such a news person.

I feel weird about it. So we are going to try to catch up on a little bit of news. And then I'm going to hear what we're calling your ideal draft where you go first round, second round, third round. And we're going to do this all in a quick amount of time. Let's start. So he says.

Yeah. We don't have any options. Ross literally has to teach like the future great broadcast. of America. And I told Ross this separately, but broadcaster, like, Ross has always been great and he fills a lot of different roles. But I really love seeing like his development as like a color guy on these big games. Because I think he is better now. He's just hitting his broadcasting prime right now. Well, I'll just say, every time they announce that I'm like getting a bump up at CBS or whatever I'm doing, you always either text me or send a tweet. And I know that

you watch every game. So it means a lot when people that I know that actually watch the games, appreciate what I do. So it means more than you know that someone that I know that it's not like my mom. My mom doesn't even watch. You were so good. Ross, you were. I'm like, mom, you didn't even watch.

You just watched the first 30 seconds when I'm on camera and then you turn it to a lifetime movie. You don't even watch me. Like Greg at least watches. Greg's like parsing your cadence and every breath that you take. No, I, I learned things from Ross. And that's the important thing.

You can tell he really does the work. And yeah, you should check out the Ross Tucker. football program every day. Ross Tucker Daily. He was first in the daily game, essentially, the podcast during the season. Let's talk news though. Let's talk. This is just, I don't even know if I want to call this news, but it's the most recent thing that I saw pop up. And it was T.J. Watch us throwing up a P sign on Instagram. And there's no reporting around it yet, but it does show potentially to me, Ross. I don't even know if you know about this one, that like there's something going on there between his contract situation with the Steelers. I would be a little stunned if anything popped

up, but if you, if you just took a step back, it actually wouldn't be that crazy to me for the Steelers to entertain the idea of trading T.J. Watt. But we, we can't be given that good content, can we? All right. Hold a second. Two things. Number one, this is one of the issues when you elect to trade for D.K. Metcalfe. And you're, you're paying a guy that much that's never done anything for your organization. Whereas T.J. Watt, he's been your best player pretty much since day one. And he the last year of his deal and he is seeing what miles garrett and these other guys are getting max crosbie and he said wait a minute miles garret had a couple years left on his deal max crosbie had a couple years left i this is my last year what about me so that's the more and gregg i actually

totally agree with you there it's not going to happen because it's not the stealer way but there is a universe where the steelers recognize they're not really going and anywhere unless they have a legitimate quarterback, especially in the AFC, and they trade T.J. Watt for something. I don't know if that's a quarterback or picks or whatever, but they decide, we're not, even if they get Aaron Rogers this year, like what's the upside one playoff win maybe? Like they win a playoff game? There is a scenario where people realize, let's not get Rogers. Let's go with Mason Rudolph or a rookie. Let's trade T.J. Watt and let's try to rebuild this

thing from the ground up. It just not the stealer away. But I think, too, the duality of these scenarios here, we have to factor in the time, right? The time of this post, offseason programming is starting for some teams with new coaches and will be starting for other teams very soon. If you are going to say potentially hold out of that programming, that's when you start posting things to your social media accounts, making it clear where you stand. There are two scenarios here that I think are very plausible that the Steelers probably are and should be thinking about. If you bring in Rogers, you're like, okay, maybe we adjust TJ Watts deal. You

play on that 2025 deal. We revisit the conversation after that because we maybe get one good year out of Rogers at a yet to be determined number. So then once you have that number in you're building, you know what you can do with T.J. Watt to sort of say, like, we're going to go all in for this season on the last year of your contract, revisit it after. Or as you're saying, which I know is not the steal away, but you don't get Rogers. And now you're going to go with a rookie or Mason Rudolph. And now you think, okay, we got a clean house on some of the older players on your defensive side. It's not what they do. but he's 30 years old, which kind of snuck up on me.

There was like a sort of a hipster tape watching group last year that was like, well, if you think about it, like, by the numbers and maybe why, what you see, you could argue that T.J. Watt was the fourth best pass rusher on the Steelers last year. That on a per snap basis, you did argue this, by the way. Nick Herbig, well, just, it was just like the, I am the hipster. Nick Herbig, uh, who was awesome and Alex Highsmith, who was awesome. And then obviously, uh, Cam Hayward, who, who plays a different position.

Who also, by the way, Cam had a contract situation last year, and he was vocal about it, and he wasn't happy, and they ended up getting that done. I think they get it done, but it is interesting that he is at the point of his career, that you could get a lot for him.

And I don't know. They're an interesting team to watch over draft weekend because we've been talking about how George Pickens, I still am not totally convinced on this team in 2025. And so we will see. Just the situation to watch. And it reminds me a little bit of his brother, J.J. Watt, who is not above, really was sort of an original guy to use social media occasionally to send messages, either to teams or just about himself or whatever. And so why not? Why not have T.J. Watt act like a wide receiver. Jack Jones, cut by the Raiders. We're catching up. So like I said, we haven't done news on the show each week. So we'll fly through these quick. But I just wanted to kind of mention that Jack Jones was cut by the Raiders, who was a starting cornerback for them.

then we did kind of close the circle on the Gino contract, which people made a big deal out of really wasn't that much better over two years than Sam Darnold. But the main thing is it guaranteed him $58 million. He makes $40 million in year one. And he's with Pete Carroll. And he's with Pete Carroll. It guarantees him $18 million in year T's. So that was a difference between him, the Raiders and what Seattle was going to do. But it is crazy, Ross, like in an era where money and all this stuff, it really sounds like the personal connection between Gino and Pete Carroll is a big. reason why they didn't really negotiate much with the Seahawks. He said Pete Carroll was calling him on a weekly basis. They were talking during last season and like coaching him up and like

putting him in a better headspace because he was all messed up about his money and the lack of a contract he was getting from Seattle. And like Pete Carroll was essentially helping out the Seahawks getting his mind right to play better for the Seahawks while he wasn't even the Seahawks coach. Are you sure about that? Because when I when I read that story and when I heard Gino talking about how They talk all the time and Pete Carroll was there for him. Pete Carroll's not happy that the Seahawks moved on from him. Pete Carroll wanted to continue to coach the Seahawks. So I'm picturing Pete Carroll saying, that is disrespectful, Gina.

The evil permit. He had the hood. He had the evil permit. Not knowing he was going to go to the Raiders, but saying, how could they treat you like this? You're the reason why they got to the playoffs. They don't want to guarantee any money in the second year. I wouldn't even negotiate. because Gino said that the Seahawks offered a contract and his agent didn't even counter.

Yeah. Like he wanted to go. He wanted to leave and go somewhere else. He wanted to go to Pete Carroll. Tired of the year to year, right? So at least he feels secure about a second year with the Raiders, whereas the Seahawks very clearly want to do this one year at time at quarterback. Yeah. My colleague, Michael Sean Duggar has a book coming out about the Legion of Boom era Seattle Seahawks.

very excited about that, but he's outlined some of this to me, whether he was there seeing it firsthand or also just talking to me about it over time. Pete Carroll is the one that had the relationships in the building, not John Schneider. And John Schneider has done some great things as a GM and has done some questionable things, particularly up front as a GM, but also the players, they connect with Pete Carroll. If there are no ties left really for you in that building, from the coaching staff to the front office, and those ties exist somewhere else, absolutely, I can see why this domino effect happens. Right. And I mean, there are ties with the players and he rebuilt his career there. And he said he enjoyed playing under Mike

McDonald. I think just this everything coming together with him having this opportunity with Pete Carroll gives me a new team to root for. Trey McBride got big money since we last, like, taped the live show. That was like literally as we were walking out the building last time, $43 million, guaranteed four years, $76 million overall. I still remember him as this kind of lost sort of rookie on the All or Nothing series that only I watched. I think that was the last All or Nothing series of the Arizona Carnals. And he was just like this fish out of water who really wasn't doing anything in his career

at that point and now one of the best titans in the league. The Jaguars picked up the fifth year option for Trayvon Walker. I thought that was interesting that they did that, but they didn't do it for linebacker Devin Lloyd. give i just want to test ross here what is your devon lloyd take see with no preparation do you have an opinion about devon lloyd yeah i think that he's probably been disappointing um i think travon walker on some level has been i think i think they've both been fine but there's a reason why the gm's not there anymore that you clearly have people to compare them to like they could

have taken aiden hudson and they went travon walk although i'll say this travon quietly has been pretty good the last couple years. It's gotten better and better. Which is what the hope was with his physical ability. I think linebacker's tough for the fifth year option

because of the number involved and I think they'd rather take their chance to see. My favorite thing about it is I think the quote was because there's a new GM and head coach in Jacksonville. We want to get to know him better.

Like the day after they do the fifth year option for Trayvon Walker, the Devin Lloyd is we want to get to know him. But like, wait, I don't understand. Like, the new GM and head coach don't need to get to know Trayvon Walker better.

Also, you only have two more weeks to get to know him before you have to make this fit. It's a nice way of saying, we're not going to do it. See, that's why if people that were attending the broadcast boot camp should pay attention to Ross, what he did right there, I put him on the spot with a tough question. Number one, he answered it. But then he answered what would have been a better question,

which is about Trayvon Walker, a more interesting question. And then he made a point about the linebacker money, which is not exactly answering that question, but is more interesting than anything I asked in the first place, and that's why he's a pro. And somehow it still came back to you in the end, Greg. Well, they all do. Let's talk about a couple of just quick retirements.

Theron Armstead retired from the Miami Dolphins. We thought this might be coming. It puts them in a little bit of a tough spot. They are an organization. I don't know what they are. They don't know what they are. What do you think they are? I think there are two people on the hot seat entering this season

who have to start driving. crafting and identifying talent that could potentially be an escape hatch, a backup plan. You have to show Stephen Ross that you have a plan B this time around if things go haywire with your plan A, as it has, multiple seasons in a row. And you really can't say anything to Stephen Ross because he gets A pluses across the board from the NFLPA report card. Like, hey, it's not me, Mike McDaniel and Chris Guerrier. It's you.

You can say something if you're a Dolphins fan, which is that the Stephen Ross era has been largely disappointing. It's been a lot of seven and nine, seven and tens now. It hasn't been, you know, including any playoff wins. So that's pretty disappointing. I always have a theory about like the dolphins and the chargers, especially when they were in San Diego. Those teams are always like talented, but they're oft injured. There's something about being in these incredible weather locations where I don't know what

it is, but they always fall short of expectations. they're always talented but disappointing and off the injury. I don't know. San Diego Chargers and Miami Dolphins. Now it's the L.A. Chargers. They're like the same team to me. That is a great point. I do want to give some love to Toronto Armstrongstead,

who surprisingly to me actually didn't make as many like all pro teams as I expected, but that was because of the injuries throughout his career that he couldn't stay on the field. But when he was on the field, you know, one of the best at what he did, change that Saints team for a long time. And the Dolphins team, you could see very clear A-B testing. When Armstead was on the field, the last handful of years, they were a different offense than when he wasn't. So he's a big guy to replace. But happy trails to him.

Happy trails to Julio Jones, who also officially retired, your sign. I have a great Julio Jones story. He has changed the way that a lot of young assistants who have come through the Shanahan coaching tree, actually coach receivers. Like his existence changed the way that they communicate their techniques, the way that they communicate their. the way that they communicate their offensive scripts, their offensive plans, how they install things, because he was so, like, cerebrally elite at speaking this language that translated across the entire offense.

And so Michael Fleur told me this story once where he was coaching in Atlanta and, you know, he's trying to explain this offense and, like, how many yards downfield he wants the receivers to run before they break inward. And he's explaining it. in these terms that he had come up with, that he had coached with before, that were like the hard and fast methods. This is how you say it. And this is, you don't explain why and this is what you say. And Julio was sort of in the mix being like not really doing the thing that Mike

was saying very specifically in Mike's own mind. And Mike was like, I'm, I have to be wrong here. Like, I'm wrong. Because if this guy, this absolutely elite player who is so gifted, did and actually could translate any concept to either any side of the ball to anybody. If he's doing it this way, then I can't be doing it this way. I have to do it a completely different way. And I have to change the way that I speak and the way that I think. And that has a trickle out effect to a lot of other people that were sort of in the orbit of those buildings at the time. And I just think that's fast, like the ripple effect that one person, one player can have, not just in the league's history, but in the way things are taught and explained

within the league's history. Real quick. I just love that you brought up those two guys. A pet peeve of mine is like, I don't know why Julio did it on something I've never heard of on a Friday afternoon. And Tehran did it.

Very Julio Jones. Yeah, and Tehran did it a Saturday night at a party. We just move on. Like, those guys had unbelievable careers, right? You played double-digit years. They both made well over $100 million. They both went to a bunch of Pro Bowls.

Yet the way we are is like, Oh, okay. And you just move on, right? Like, I am glad, even though it's like a week later or whatever it is now, I'm glad that we are giving those guys there due because they deserve it. Yeah, it's one of those things. Julio Jones is one of the best wide receivers I've ever seen at his peak. And he had a six-year run where he had at least 1,400 yards in every one of those seasons.

They're actually the sixth year at 1,394. Led the league and received with 1,871 yards one year, and led the league with 1,600 yards another year, like, five straight where he's on an all-pro team. He is an all-timer, and that catch he made in the Super Bowl to put them in field goal range from Matt Ryan, as great a throw as it was from Matt Ryan, it was an even better catch. And it should have been one of the all-time moments that any receiver has ever had in

a Super Bowl. Yeah, then what happened? It didn't work out, but that's the thing. That's why it sucks being a receiver because it has nothing to do with Julio Jones. Like, he did it. Forget David Tyree. I mean, you couldn't do that again. Julio Jones was all skill.

Like, that was the best player at his position, making the biggest play and the biggest of moments. And because the rest of the team couldn't finish it out, like it doesn't get remembered that way. But it gets remembered by me. He was the man. So I'm glad you pointed that out because I did want to mention that quickly. Just a couple other items.

Then we're going to take a break. The Chargers signed Trey Lance. Just thought that was interesting. So he's not going to the UFL. Can fix him. Yes, but he'll be the third quarterback there behind Taylor Heineke and Justin Herbert. Alan Lazard is staying with the Jets on less money. On Thursday, the Colts released Matt Gay, who was the highest paid kicker in the NFL at one point?

Super Bowl champion Matt Gay. That's absolutely right. My daughter's favorite player for a long time, Matt Geh. Still drafts him on her fantasy team every year. I'm pretty sure Sean McVeigh never actually knew his name. He just referred to him as jacked kicker. That's rude. And you mentioned it the offseason program.

has started around the league. Like, there are players lifting weights. Football is back. I used to love the off-season program. Why? Because after a couple months back living in my parents' house in Pennsylvania, okay? And as much as I love that, you know, I'm 22 to 28.

I go back to Pennsylvania. I was ready to get to the city. You could afford an apartment, though. I could, but nobody stays around, like, those couple months after the season. It's like the facility's a dead zone, right? So I'd go home. It was great. My mom would make me meals and I'd go out and whatever. So then I'd go back. And first of all, you get like 180 bucks a day or whatever it is, which I know that sounds like nothing. But when you're in your 20s, I would think about all my buddies were paying 50 bucks to go to Gold's gym. I'm getting $180 to do what I have to do anyway, which is work out for lifting for football. And I would go there and have breakfast.

I would have lunch, I would pack up, whatever lunch I didn't have, I would pack up something else, that would be my dinner. So three delicious, three delicious healthy meals getting paid for that. Unless you were with the Cardinals and they would make. Per Diem King. That's what we call it. They would make you pay. And I remember, so Greg, you guys will appreciate this real quick.

When I resigned with New England one year deal, 2006, okay? My wife and I had just gotten married. So I'm, we're both like 26. So she moves up. They have some apartment complex in Cumberland, Rhode Island. So my wife, who's very much a working woman for that year, she says she was a real housewife of Cumberland, Rhode Island, right? All you do is lift weights Monday to Thursday.

That's it. Every weekend, Cape Cod, Martha's Vineyard, Hell yeah. Man, Tucket, Newport. We're like, we're both in Pennsylvania. We're like, we're never living here again. It was unbelievable. Like, it was, it was like the whole off season.

And it was one of the greatest six months stretches of my life, lift weights Monday to Thursday and then have incredible weekends. We're on Martha's Vineyard. My sister had just had my niece Caroline. We're singing sweet Caroline karaoke. The place is going crazy. We had no idea that was the Red Sox theme song. My wife and I, so we're looking at each other like, we are awesome.

They love us. We're the greatest thing. And we had no idea. It's the Red Sox like seventh inning stretch song or something. I wonder if Ross ever voyage to your restaurant where you... The sea shanty, where I was a waiter in Martha's Vineyard from like 2001. Hallucinogenics. Yeah, I don't like to repeat that story too often here.

But yes, I did catch myself like staring out into the boats on the water. And then another waiter was like, dude, you've been staring out for like 30 seconds. What do you do? Maybe during that time, Ross came in and ate and then, like, Yeah, it was a little bit before Ross was there. I'm a little older than Ross. And it was a choice, Ross, by the way, for you to still be living at your parents. I don't, I don't cast any aspersions on it.

But you didn't have to do that. No, so when I was 22 with the Redskins, Washington now, the week after the season ended, I went in to lift weights. I thought it was like college. The lights were turned off. No coaches were there. What a metaphor. I didn't.

I didn't know that you didn't stay. Nobody told me that you leave until the off-season program starts. I couldn't even get anybody to spot me. I was like, okay, I guess I'm going back to Pennsylvania. And I still had the apartment in Virginia, but what am I going to do by myself there? That's absolutely fair. I don't really know what that's like lifting weights. And hell, they're doing meetings and stuff now, too.

So we got Ben Johnson in the room with Caleb Williams. They're doing meetings. All right. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to come back. And we're going to do a little exercise. to find out some of Ross and Jordan's favorite players right after this. Hey, this is Matt Jones.

I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is.

exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from Scouting Reports and player development

to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front-off construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day.

Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a die-hard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet,

we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. All right, back on NFL Daily, here with, a wild tandem. Ross Tucker, Jordan Rodriguez. It works. It absolutely works. It's one of my favorite things about doing this show is just seeing the different combinations and bringing together

smart football people. And that's why I had an exercise that I gave you to, which is that we're going to do an ideal draft. So it's a mock draft. It's really Jordan's idea. And I can see the look that she's giving me now. I just was trying to like say. It was my idea that Greg opted out of. I am opting out of this. I didn't have, I didn't feel like I had good interests. And I, and there's, there's not a lot of time here. And so I thought, uh, I would just listen to you guys. You explain it then.

Yeah. This is a ideal draft for, uh, a team about whom you can describe the circumstances within which they enter the draft. Oh, okay. I found it. I found it. I thought it told me it was a generic team. I did, it could be just generic.

Okay, okay, okay. That's what I did. I did a generic, a generic anonymous team. I just put a couple different parameters around it. because I wanted to highlight the people that I most like in this trap. So truly a selfish exercise. So I'm learning very well from you,

honestly. But yes. And so we only wanted to go rounds one through three. Yeah. So why don't we kick it off with you, Ross? Sure. Yeah. I'm going Cam Ward, Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter.

It's the best. No. I was like, thanks. I mean, people are shocked. One way we have lost the threat of communication. People were shocked that Abdul Carter it was still there in my mock draft

in third. I know it is tricky. You have to like think where am I drafting round two, round three, but just somewhat realistic.

So what I will say is the two guys that jumped out to me in the first round that I couldn't possibly be higher on. And I know they already get talked

about a lot, right? I still don't think we talk about Travis Hunter as much as we should. Thank you. Okay. You know,

I had, Fran Duffy, who you know, Greg, he came on one of my shows this week, the Ross Tucker podcast. He, in his database, evaluated two different players, Travis Hunter, offensive player, Travis Hunter, defensive player. Both of them were among his top five prospect. If he was two different human beings, okay, Todd McShay, who came on the Ross Tucker podcast this week, has him as the number one receiver, number one corner. I just can't emphasize enough. how nuts that is. I did Colorado,

I called Colorado, Colorado State this past year. Fun game. It was, and, you know, going to Boulder for his practice, you ever see like a center fielder that when there's like a line drive or a fly ball,

just the way, the graceful way that they make the catch, or like an NBA player that like when they get to the rim for a layup or a finger roll, it just looks beautiful. he might have done that four or five times in one practice where he's like double covered and jumps earlier than the two dbs or jump and i just thought this guy's unbelievable i do think

he'll play both ways in the nfl i think he has to be in every defensive back meeting i would say after offensive line communication is the second most important in the secondary you have to be in those meetings right he had so he'd be a full-time corner now because it's interesting because i've heard people say well if the browns take him maybe he'd be they need him at receiver or if the patriots take him they need him at receiver that's really interesting because then you can't really put him on defense but people think that he might be more ready to contribute offense my point is i know he gets talked about a lot i know he won the heisman the guy was playing like 160 snaps a game the guy can't possibly be in every

meeting. I don't even, we've never seen this before or even close to it. I would say I grew up outside of Philadelphia. I live right near Penn State. I think Abdul Carter's fantastic. In my mind, you cannot take Abdul Carter over Travis Hunter. You cannot, you cannot do it because of his ability to affect both sides of the ball. It's why I've never believed that he was somehow going to get the four at the Patriot. No. No way. Just was never, it's, it's kind of a two person draft. at that level and Cam Ward is thrown in there because he's the quarterback

so they're picking fourth in like a three-person draft essentially but just never make any sense that he would fall past multiple teams and I still wouldn't be surprised if the Browns took him at two. My biggest fear for Travis Hunter

has nothing to do with the caliber quality of a prospector player he is by the way also half of those games at altitude which also people don't talk about conditioning all of those snaps and that's hard. The air is quite thin.

I never thought of that. I'm going to steal that now on until the draft. It's yours. It's yours. But I, my biggest concern is that an NFL team, particularly the ones that frequently pick in the top 10, top 12 of the draft, that team, I worry, will fail, Travis Hunter, because they will not have designed the appropriate and correct infrastructure internally where he's going to spend his time in meetings, how he's going to onboard twice as much information in half the time so that he can go out and execute and play on the same cadence and schedule as everybody else. I worry about the organizational

clarity and infrastructure for a player of his quality and caliber. I want him, I don't want him to drop. I just selfishly want to see him go to a place that's got its stuff together. It needs to be with an organization that has a multi-year plan. So you're talking about, and I've heard this a lot and make sense, like the amount of meeting time that he is going to need to truly master either position, but especially cornerback. Or thinking about how you teach it in a different way. I'm not saying go in separate meetings. It also could be like, here's our plan for year one.

We're going to have you focused on getting better and better at this and you'll have the meeting time. Year two, you're now going to have all that experience and you're going to have a longer off season because you're not preparing for the draft to, okay, and then we're going to add this part to your game into year two and convince him and have a multi. And that can only happen with a organization that has stability. And to Jordan's point, whether it's the Browns at two or the Giants at three, they don't care at all about 2026. I can assure you.

Those guys need to win in 2025. So honorable mention, my other first round guy would have been Tyler Warren from Penn State. I watched his high school video because I was doing some Penn State media at the time to watch him at quarterback

and then they would like get near the red zone. They'd put the backup quarterback in. They would put Tyler at receiver and throw him fade balls. Like he wears number 44 because his dad told him to because of John Riggins. Like, I couldn't love Tyler Warren more. Like, you, you had me at John Regans.

You know what I mean? Okay. So it was my first round. The two guys on in the second round, believe it or not, D.Bs. Okay. Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame. I've had multiple people tell me he's the best corner they've ever seen at Notre Dame. Best corner, at least in the last 25 years in Notre Dame, got hurt this past year.

Now, he hasn't even worked out. He's going to work out like two days before the draft because of the industry. injury. But if you can get a guy mid-second round that people thought was a first round pick and is the best cornered in her name in 25 years, that says something to me. The other guy like there would be the safety at a Texas, Andrew McCuba. I'm a huge fan of guys that, A, take the ball away. Like he did not do it Clemson, but he did do it, Texas, but also the safety nickel versatility. Think Gardner Johnson. I've seen that firsthand in Philly, the VAL of having a guy that has corner like nickel corner like skills but can play safety so those are

my two second round guys in the third round i like two jacks okay okay uh the first guy jack bash the receiver senior bowl step i'm calling this right now okay jack bash first of all we all know his older brother tiger princeton football player like me passed away tragically i'm saying I'm calling my shot right now. The L.A. Rams. Jordan Rodrigues, L.A. Rams are drafting Jack Besh, and he's going to win the third annual Cooper Cup, Pooka Nukua. How did he fall to the third round?

And how did Sean McVeigh get him? I watch him and I'm like, this guy is like going to be like Pooka Nacua. He's going to go to the Rams. I don't understand why he's going to fall that far. And you're right that that is sort of where he's getting projected. Third round. But I think the more people watch him, the takeaway from the tape is all what you said. And that's, it's typical of this draft.

And that's why I think you can credibly say that's your ideal third round pick because he's a believable third round pick because that's where the strength of this receiver class is that there's so many that some of them aren't going to get taken in the top 50, 55 picks, even though it seems like they deserve it. So that might push the first round wide receivers down because teams are just going to wait until round two, three. The other Jack, sorry, the other Jack is just Jack Sawyer. Those guys make it in the NFL. And I know the Sam Hubbard thing is gone a million times.

He reminds you to Sam Howard, but he does. Like guys like that, he's going to find a way to be an above average starter in the NFL, Jack Sawyer. A lot of disagreement on those, though. There are some people that watch Jack Sawyer's tape and just say that is not an NFL player. That is like a, that is a late day three undrafted type of pick that's getting this. Ohio State College thing. It's his ideal pick. I'm just throwing that out there.

He was like a top five high school brawback. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I'll go. We have to run out here. We've got to let Ross go, I think. But I want to make sure to rip through mine too.

So mine was for a team with a late career veteran quarterback on the roster. Wow. Who could that be? Picking outside of the top 10. Round one, Matthew Golden from Texas. He has been in a couple different schemes, which I like. He also knows how to. He's like the perfect player to exploit horizontal and vertical.

space on the field because he's used as a motion player. He often was the Z, but he can do a lot of different things on the perimeter as well. And I know the knock on him is his size, but I think speed helps with size deficiencies in some ways. I think if you are looking at potentially replacing your quarterback in the next couple of years, which the team I'm talking about is, then you want to make sure that you're maximizing the veteran years of that quarterback, while also building a foundation for the younger player. So round two, I've got Tyler Shuck from

I think he's a really gifted. Quote unquote, younger player. Well, so I don't care about the old thing. That's the thing. That's the thing. I wrote this out. So like, and I was thinking about this. I was getting really fired up when I was doing my notes on this. Probably because I've spent too much time with the ram scouting

department because they do not care about old players or short arms. So I he throws well on the move and I know he could be 26 or 27 by the time he starts. I don't care. He, I like he's seen a ton of football. I like that he's only started, you know, eight or less games until the final year of his college career, which is not the same type of wear and tear on the body that a quarterback. Why didn't he start? Because he's always hurt. Playing a ton of time. I think if you can get the medicals cleared and you can,

you have a player who's not going to take the type of abuse that we sometimes do get worried about with older prospects. Like, I think that that's a fit. I like that he's seen stuff. I like that he understands multiple schemes and multiple things. And so I think that the right team with a two-year plan, maybe with their current starter, is going to gravitate toward him. And for that reason, also, if you're looking at a long-term replacement, one of my draft crushes is in the third round, Boston College offensive tackle, Ozzy Trapilo. Oh, going deep. He's a gap scheme guy and his own scheme guy. He's a fit. He's a starter. He also is super disciplined. No penalties in his three years as a starter. Wow. I know you got to love that. That's hard to imagine. I feel like you've got and he's on

the right right tackle. You know what that reminds me of? That's like someone that has a 4.0 GPM like you might have been studying a little bit too much. Like do you really want a 4.0 GPA in college? Do you really want to never have one penalty? Give me one unnecessary. Like if you're not getting enough fouls in like a youth basketball game, you're doing it wrong. That's why you got to get him and sit him as a swing guy behind somebody who's already playing and you got to make a mean, a little bit meaner. You got to make him a little bit. I'm feeling mean right now because we got to end this thing. Ross has got to go. We got to get out of here. That's it for this show. I loved having you guys in and I love the intensity which happened with just having a deadline on here. But they're

saying like we got to get the important broadcast boot camp people. Let's do it. That was it for today's show. Just a little extra for you. We will be back on Monday. We're going to be talking defensive draft prospects with Ali Connelly. I think he likes some of the same guys that Ross us including Makuba. And yes, when teams are back in the building, lifting weights again, I believe that's the original football is back. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here.

And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape. Talk to decision makers and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday.

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